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Dungeons & Dragons Experience
294 Plays4 years ago
On the first episode of Chatsunami, Fraser (Satsunami) invites his friend Craig on to talk about their shared experience with Dungeons and Dragons. From favourite moments to unexpected twists, the duo recall what it was like being both a DM and a player of the widely popular tabletop game.
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Transcript
Introduction to Chattsunami and Craig
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Chattsunami. Hello everyone, welcome to the very first episode of Chattsunami. And today I am joined by my very good friend Craig. Thank you for joining me.
00:00:26
Speaker
Hello, no problems, that's dynamic. Happy to be here. Yep, always glad to have you on.
Episode Focus: Dungeons & Dragons
00:00:31
Speaker
I know it's a bit weird, but it's not going to be another Fall Guys session this time.
00:00:38
Speaker
I know I'm kind of in that mood, I'm like, how are we going to do Fall Guys? I might just go jump out down the stairs later just to get that emotion out of me. What a start to the first episode. So yeah, as you can see by the screen, today we're going to be talking about the very famous tabletop game Dungeons and Dragons.
What is Dungeons & Dragons?
00:00:59
Speaker
So before I go into that Craig, how would you describe Dungeons and Dragons?
00:01:04
Speaker
Like, if someone came up to you and said, what is Dungeons and Dragons, how would you describe it? You know, it's actually a question I've kind of wrestled with for years, if I'm honest. Because it's one of those things that I love so much. And it's one of those things that's like, I've made word documents to try and explain it. I've sent people videos to explain it. There's very little ways of explaining it just within a sentence. It's a tabletop interactive storytelling game. It's what you tell people, but then they're like,
00:01:33
Speaker
How does that mean? The best thing I can say to people that don't have a clue what Dungeons and Dragons is, is it's like a board game mixed with storytelling, but honestly just go watch a video on YouTube and that will teach you a bit and then you can say it in a sentence. And I'll listen to a podcast. We'll try one in the next hour. That is true. You can't see it, but I'm winking just now.
00:01:58
Speaker
a plug. You know it's kind of weird because it's like before you played Dungeons and Dragons you would like literally just say oh it's a tabletop game it's all about role-playing fantasy but when you've actually like immersed yourself and actually played the game you're like well let me tell you let me tell you about my character and that you know that
00:02:21
Speaker
I can't remember if it's the American shows where it's the guy and he's got all the pins in the wall and it's like the conspiracy board. It's almost a bit like that where you're trying to explain what Dungeons and Dragons is. You're like, okay, first of all, there's this place, right? And then there's this God.
00:02:39
Speaker
you get into that and it's just oh it's it's such a good game though. To me one of the incredible things about it is like I'm a massive fan of video games like RPGs in particular. Yeah. And going into it there's like a bit of an expectation it's going to be kind of like like Skyrim kind of game like that's kind of the I think that's like the thing that people think of the most when they think of like RPGs. Yeah. If they went to RPGs like oh Skyrim and then you've got like
00:03:03
Speaker
if it's more than like Fallout, but even within D&D it's so different, even as a player, like playing a video game that is to play in Dungeons and Dragons and things like that, like the flexibility and stuff, just like whole nitting the level. I'll get into that deeper as we go on.
00:03:20
Speaker
There's nothing else like it apart from other tabletop games. It's true. I mean, it's such a versatile game. It's like if you ask somebody like, oh, how was your D&D session? No, like two games are really the same.
00:03:33
Speaker
you know what I mean? It's like you could ask someone and they might just be following like the book like from scenario to scenario but then you get other people who are like in anime based maybe adventures or are based on like all these other things. It's just such a flexible game.
00:03:50
Speaker
As I've seen a guy on Reddit recently just to follow up on that, he was doing our World War 1 based game. And what they'd done is they'd re-skinned all the weapons to be guns, military guns from World War 1 that was actually like really, not realistic, because obviously it can't be, but you know what I mean, like in terms of like the specs for the guns are based off real life and stuff. So the amount of flexibility in the game is ridiculous.
00:04:08
Speaker
So yeah let's jump into the meat of Dungeons and Dragons or I suppose would you call it the dragon of Dungeons and Dragons?
Craig's First Experience with D&D
00:04:17
Speaker
The Dungeons and Flagons of Dungeons and Dragons? You know what? I'll take it. Don't ask me to repeat it. That's it. So thank you all for coming. Oh my goodness. So of course since you're the guest Craig you know I'm a very good host.
00:04:36
Speaker
I can't flex a moan chat. I suppose this is quite a basic question to start off in. But how did you hear about Dungeons & Dragons? What was the first experience you had learning about Dungeons & Dragons?
00:04:53
Speaker
Yeah, Dungeon Dragon is a funny one because like, so I think a lot of people know it now quite a lot, like from TV shows and stuff, but when I first started playing it, it was just before the kind of like community episode came out with it on and then like Critical Role wasn't as big and it was kind of like a wee bit earlier than the timeline. Stranger Things obviously wasn't out either. So I hadn't, I had really no idea about Dungeon Dragon, apart from it's that thing that the nerds play in cartoons, you know what I mean? That's all I knew about it.
00:05:22
Speaker
yeah no i was yeah i'm absolutely the same from home town for a while lived um the other side of the uk and um i met a guy down there and i kind of you know he don't really know anyone and he invited me into his house to play Dungeons and Dragons with a couple of other guys you know what i was like fine whatever i'll turn up but i'll i'll sit at the back i'll do the minimum amount of work and i'll i'm there to socialize kind of thing is that like the angsty teenager
00:05:48
Speaker
Exactly, it was angsty teenager Craig. And so I went in with a, and I basically made like a pre-made character online. It was Dungeons & Dragons 3.5, which is like one of the older versions, but it's like super heavy in terms of stats and stuff. So I did it all on like one night in my own. I sat through all these fucking stats, went through it all to make a barbarian called Uck and the whole thing is he didn't speak. So I could just sit there and mope if I wasn't enjoying myself. Oh my God. That is forward thinking though. Thank you.
00:06:19
Speaker
He speaks entirely in grunts and mumbles. I was like, this is fine, this is perfect for me. And we get to the session and the guy's doing like the intro and like into just into the world. I'm like, okay, this is fine. And we get to like the first combat encounter.
00:06:35
Speaker
And he was an excellent DM, a guy called John, a really good friend of mine. But it was the very first combat encounter. And we're fighting a bunch of the coatballs, which are like little dragons. And I basically took my, I think it was like an axe I had for my character.
00:06:50
Speaker
cut one of the guy's heads off, picked up his body and threw it at one of the other ones. And I just asked, I was like, can I throw a body at someone? Like thinking I was being like, oh, you know what I mean? In games, in video games, you can't do this shit. So I was like, well, let's see what happens. He's like, yeah, of course, just roll some dice. And at that point, like the penny dropped. I was like, this game's incredible. You mean I can just do these things? And so like from there, like I must admit to being such a
00:07:16
Speaker
like such a salty bitch about it to being like the 180s upswing on it, if you know what I mean? Like just much a 180 from being just so totally disingenuous doing like, wait, the actual game of this is incredible. Like it's so addicting and they're getting all the kind of understanding what you can't do. It's really
00:07:35
Speaker
That was the moment for me when I was like, I need to get more of this game. And that was when I started becoming a dungeon master as well over time. And played for some of those guys. And eventually I played for some of my friends when I moved back to Scotland, including yourself.
Fraser's Introduction to D&D
00:07:49
Speaker
So I guess I'll throw it to you, Fraser. What was your first experience with dungeons?
00:07:54
Speaker
Well I suppose I was kind of the same as you in the sense that the first time I heard about Dungeons and Dragons was probably like, you know how you saw all those American films where it was like
00:08:09
Speaker
you always had the nerdy kid or the nerdy stereotype and for some reason Dungeons and Dragons was always like the thing that would come up. If it wasn't that it would be like Star Trek or Stamp Collective. The stereotypical what makes a nerd oh Dungeons and Dragons, playing in a basement, no friends, which is kind of ironic because Dungeons and Dragons is like a very social game.
00:08:33
Speaker
I mean technically you can play it on your own but it's like whenever you see them they're like always playing with friends so you're kind of like well you're kind of fighting your own stereotypes here so like until then it was like it was something I didn't have any personal like investment in
00:08:51
Speaker
it was just that kind of stereotype where someone was like you know yelling nerd and all of that and I think it was one time when I came back it must have been university I could be wrong but I again like I used to live away from a home when I went to university and I came back on time and I think it was when I met up with you Craig
00:09:14
Speaker
And we were sitting there, just chatting, catching up. And then you turned round to me and you said, oh, by the way, do you want to join my D&D session? And I kind of like did like a double take as if.
00:09:26
Speaker
D&D, you mean Dungeons and Dragons? All these kind of stereotypes. They're like flying through my head like Homer and the Simpsons yelling, and things like that. Is that going to be me? And I was like, I was really surprised because I didn't like
00:09:45
Speaker
honestly like I didn't see it coming really and then I was like yeah okay I'll try it but I was like really nervous because I didn't know what to expect because it's something that I've heard about like quite a lot but I never ever played it and I think the closest I ever got to D&D was like you know those choose your own adventure books
00:10:08
Speaker
And then I would end up cheating in the end because I kept getting killed. And I'm like, this book is stupid. And yeah, it was just so, it was really, like once I got into it, so I ended up, I went to your house, Craig, and we started playing with a couple of friends from, I think it was kind of a mix, like some of your friends and people we'd gone with to school and things like that. And it was just such a chilled out like atmosphere.
00:10:38
Speaker
Like again, I had no idea what to expect. And I think my first character was a gnome bard called Blimrow, which, the only reason I made him a gnome is because I forgot halflings were a thing. And it's true. It's like, I was like, oh, be a gnome. And then like halfway through, and I think you said something like, oh, and the halfling walks by and I'm like, oh, God dammit, forgot the exist. And it might have been a couple of sessions in.
00:11:05
Speaker
By the way, it was like the point of no return, and I'm like, okay, I guess I've got to be a gnome now. But I don't regret it. But the only reason I called him Blimbro was because when I was at uni, I got into playing a little bit of Lord of the Rings Online. Absolutely. I wasn't the biggest fan, but I ended up playing the Hobbit bard-type character called Blimbro.
00:11:29
Speaker
because I think that was like one of the randomised names that you could get. So I just ran around with this guy called Blimbro. So of course when you asked, oh, what's your character called? Who do you want to be? I was like, oh, I want to be called Blimbro. So that was the beginning of Blimbro. And I don't know like what the, so you were saying like when you were told, oh, you can throw a body.
Social Benefits of D&D
00:11:53
Speaker
Like that was a turning point.
00:11:55
Speaker
that really got you into it. I'm not quite sure. I think a lot of it is just because of the people that I played with I think as well. I'll kind of get into that later but I think that definitely because I was playing with friends
00:12:12
Speaker
there was no real judgement, if you know what I mean. We could all just kind of relax and kind of roleplay our characters. And in that session that you first DMed, we had some crazy characters. Just utterly insane. It was just absolutely crazy. But yeah, it was really fun to get into. And then each session, it allowed us to kind of develop our characters and things.
00:12:41
Speaker
Yeah I got really attached to my wee bard but oh my god I'll talk about him later but all I can say is I think I play bards like the wrong way. So kind of just like off tangent but everyone seems to play like every time I see a meme about like a bard character everyone says oh they're a flirt or oh you know they seduce the dragon. Yet my character didn't do that at all I don't think unless you can remember Craig.
00:13:11
Speaker
I think you were persuasive in the past, but I don't think you were ever flirtatious. Yeah, definitely. Certainly not in-game. Yeah, that is true. But yeah, it was just, it was so, oh, so, yeah. I was like, I was reading the memes and I'm like, oh, that's how you're supposed to play a bard. And I think this was like the second last session we ever did. I'm like, OK, I've messed up somewhere along the way, guys. Just let's wrap it up.
00:13:41
Speaker
but yeah I think just a kind of mix between like being able to hang out with friends and yeah just like a really good story that you'd created that's kind of what really got me into it and I suppose that kind of leads on to like my next question for like why do you like playing it like what hooks do you into the indie would you say?
00:14:05
Speaker
I think that the social aspect is like, and again go back to the, like we were laughing about earlier about the stereotype that it's supposed to be an antisocial nerds thing. But actually like for me, especially like I said I've been away, living away for a year or two and I came back. And see just getting like six of my friends together. Do it yourself.
00:14:28
Speaker
my wife, my girlfriend at the time, two of my friends from uni and people from school. And I'm just getting that group, like people that maybe have hung out together and getting us all together and just kind of chilling out. And it was like, we used to have like a bit of a running gag where I'd say all the game starts at two and we wouldn't start to like free because we'd just be like having a laugh and just chatting about other shit because that's, you know, we're all friends. And that was for me, that was such a big, a big part of it. The other side of it for me personally is
00:14:58
Speaker
sort of the creative output side I'm quite a creative person but I've got a dyspraxia and dyslexia which makes it quite difficult for me to write and draw and things like that so obviously the actual for me mental planning things is really fun like that's my kind of creative outlet
00:15:17
Speaker
So D&D was a perfect version for that because I could draw the old mind map and you know it yourself and I presented notes and D&D never had intricate notes, I never had drawings, I'd found things online, giggled it and show you pictures and for me that kind of creative output was really exciting to be able to do something like that because it's like all through.
00:15:34
Speaker
school and stuff you don't really get told about like oh this is like improv it's like a like an art form you know i mean it's it's kind of i don't quite know if you don't know i don't know if you quite know i'm getting that but basically there's nothing else like it that i've found um apart from maybe wrestling but i won't go too much into that but
00:15:50
Speaker
It's like its own creative output. So those two reasons definitely socialise on the creative side of it. And that counts both as a player and as the dungeon master, games master kind of person. I think both those sides get a lot of creative output, which is cool.
00:16:05
Speaker
because I mean the closest thing I can think of just when you were saying like in school there wasn't really that I think the closest that we came to that was probably like creative writing in English class but even then it was kind of constricted by you know certain rules and things it had to like fall under a set criteria where as Dungeons and Dragons you can be as like free as you want and borrow different ideas
00:16:32
Speaker
but yeah you can be like as creative as you want whereas in that kind of scenario it's like yeah sure you can be creative as you want but at the same time you know you have to follow the rules but as indeed there are rules but in terms of the story i say what you mean it's like it's yeah just a way to kind of express your ideas through like a really fun game i'm saying yeah and i mean i suppose oh
00:17:01
Speaker
that's a really hard question like why do you like playing it you know other than me like living at my fantasies as a gnome bar to punches people in the nether regions but um yeah but no jokes aside it's like
00:17:18
Speaker
Yeah, I totally agree with you when you're saying it's a social thing, because I was talking to one of our mutual friends, Adam, who you might know from the Senna Sandwiches streams, and I think before we got into playing Dungeons and Dragons, we had only met once before it.
00:17:40
Speaker
and I mean like at the time you know it's like you meet one person and you think oh he's a great person but it's like there was kind of no reason in a way like for us to hang out at the time because we didn't really know one another but I think because as you said like we're all getting together and you know just having one day
00:18:01
Speaker
just for a couple of hours to socialise with one another and kind of catch up because I was kind of laughing when you said that that you would always say oh we're starting at like one o'clock or two o'clock sharp and yeah like it's not an exaggeration we would genuinely spend like an entire hour just chatting about you know like either our days or like it's just just completely random stuff and then at the end there would be this kind of pause where we all laugh and go
00:18:31
Speaker
And then Craig would say, right, so they, um, play indeed.
00:18:37
Speaker
yeah you're like you know I can go you know I can I can like straight up and leave and I was just like fine I guess we'll play D&D but I mean it's true though because I remember like when we started I think that was probably the same time I was at university and as I said I lived away from home so I didn't really get a chance to like meet up with a lot of my friends unless I was like visiting for a weekend or something like that
00:19:07
Speaker
and as you said Craig you were away for a good while down south as well and yeah it was just it was just kind of weird as you know that when you haven't seen like people from school for absolutely ages and then it's like when you get together and it's like oh how you doing and yeah you're just like as you were saying it's just you're catching up with people you're just
00:19:34
Speaker
Yeah, getting together. I do agree. I think the social aspect definitely is the winner by far because I've heard so many horror stories of people saying, oh, I don't like D&D because of
00:19:47
Speaker
someone in the group who might not have been nice to them or they might have taken things too far or just whatever. But I feel as if like, I mean, I don't know how you feel about this, like, but personally, I feel like really lucky to have like got you guys for the first group.
Challenges in Organizing D&D Sessions
00:20:02
Speaker
And I'm not just saying that because you're like the first person on this podcast. But yeah, it's like,
00:20:16
Speaker
it was such an enjoyable you know time to yeah again just like come together
00:20:22
Speaker
And it actually inspired me, although because of current events, I haven't really been able to organize a game. But before this all kicked off, the good old 2020, we got another game started when I decided to DM. And if I'm honest, the only reason I decided to DM was pretty much because of seeing your campaign. Honestly, it was like how much,
00:20:51
Speaker
you were you know enjoying it and like even before D&D like I well I used to like do a lot of writing and things like that and I love doing creative writing and things but you know it's like it's like any creative thing like even video games it's like there's always that kind of burnout period where it's like you don't want to kind of return to it but with D&D because it's like you're planning you're kind of world building so you're planning your own world you're planning
00:21:19
Speaker
what you want to do and then you know it's like it makes it all worth it see when you get people coming together and they just absolutely enjoy the game that you've done like I remember I think it was only you and Adam that it'd come so this is like a challenge like for a lot of D&D sessions where yeah I mean you can agree with this as well like trying to get everybody together
00:21:47
Speaker
That's the hardest part of the day, ranging the bloody night. You think organizing the boss or doing like, storywriting is hard? No, no, no. It's schedules and timekeeping, honestly. So I always remember, I think it was just you and Adam,
00:22:08
Speaker
that had come in for a session and I was DMing at the time and it was just completely random because it was only your just both of you and your characters and I was like right how am I gonna like how am I gonna make this like entertaining enough a bit silky bit within the story and Long Story Short involved them kind of like
00:22:32
Speaker
I don't want to say they hit a guard with a mace, which actually sounds better than what actually happened. But yeah, let's just leave it at that, that they hit a guard with a mace. And you know, I think that's one of my other favourite things after that is just the fact that
00:22:50
Speaker
You can, I know you've got a really good example of this, when you've got like an NPC that seems completely inconsequential to anything, he's just there for one session, you think right that's it, he's going to come in, he's going to give the team the plot,
00:23:06
Speaker
and then that's how he's going to bug it off at the end of the game. And then someone in the party does something and it ends up there like a reoccurring character. So I mean in my case it was that guard who was called Jeff. I can't remember who called him that.
00:23:23
Speaker
but yeah it was like yeah now we've got a character called Jeff who seems to be having marital issues but he's like got a heart of gold and it's like yeah I had no intention of having him in the game but obviously thanks to like the party you know interacting with the world which is great yeah it's just amazing so I was just gonna ask do you have anybody like that in your campaign or any old campaigns?
00:23:51
Speaker
Yeah, sorry, I just got off of you asking the question. Yeah, just one thing just to look back a wee bit as well, just a second. Just when you're talking about the socializing aspect, this is one thing as well where these common events and characters almost become part of your social life outside of the indie as well, you know what I mean? We'll chat about these characters and stuff, and the one in particular, this guy, this character called Etsy Timbers, who I misread on a sheet.
00:24:18
Speaker
And I came up with his name by accident, and I actually looked back at the old sheep for it. His name was actually best printed. I basically had him in to be the character that introduces you to the world. And that was all he was going to do. And then he was just going to maybe run a shop or something later on. Then it would be him and Mr. Satsunami here.
00:24:39
Speaker
condemned him to death on the back of a horse-driven cart for no reason and decided you know what he's gonna become the biggest villain in the game and he was he was the only character like that appeared
00:24:52
Speaker
multiple times like the only bad guy that appeared like in every single um season as i called it but every sort of 10 games or so he was in every chunk um and he was basically he was the big bad i didn't want in season i think like he was like oh yeah final ball yeah can i just get context for like no why i condemned him no no
00:25:16
Speaker
No, no, I'm living back here. I put the reset button on this. So basically, the context of that was, I can't remember, but there was a big bad that me and another player were running away from. And we saw that they had somehow gotten in front of us. And it basically meant if we crashed into them, then that would be like, you know, goodbye. So this NPC, Etsy,
00:25:41
Speaker
was driving the car. So I turned round to the other player and I was just like, yeah, let's jump off the, let's jump off the carriage. So that's what we did. We jumped right off, we landed, and we're both looking at the one another thinking, oh, what a great job, you know, we got away. And then Craig, of course, who was the DM at the time, turned round to us and says, did you tell Etsy that you were jumping off? And we both looked at each other like,
00:26:09
Speaker
Oh shit. And then you like described how he's like turning around going guys and then there was just an explosion. And we're just like oh my god. Yeah that was. The reason that wooden cart was carrying like a hundred kilograms of c4 or something.
00:26:33
Speaker
I don't know, just absolute carnage. It was like a Michael Bay cut. It was so overly dramatic, but it was amazing. But that actually leads me into my next question. What are some favorite memories that you would say you have of D&D? And it doesn't necessarily have to be like the ones we played, of course.
Favorite D&D Memories
00:26:58
Speaker
Is there any ones in particular?
00:27:01
Speaker
Definitely that, the one I mentioned before, the eye-opening moment for me, the moment of throwing that dead NPC at the other NPC, you've been like, it's such a stupid thing to be hooked on, but it was that moment for me where I really just sort of clearly saw what you could do with D&D. That moment you just described there is another one of my highlights. Another one of my highlights was...
00:27:23
Speaker
The final, final boss we did in our game, about two highlights from this, and this was like the very, I think, four or five years we ended up playing all in all. That's the bean, yeah. And so I'd have got married about three weeks before the final session of our game, so I'd actually been thinking about D&D over the course of Pan in the Wind, and the
00:27:50
Speaker
I don't know if I've ever told this story actually. The florist gave us all the flowers in these like green blocks that you kind of press the flowers into and then we could take them out and put them up at the venue and I see all these this like oh it's like polystyrene kind of squishy stuff and I see all this and I'm like
00:28:14
Speaker
I have to keep this. So I had to like muggle it out the venue back home because everyone's just going to tuck in the bin because it's just, you know, whatever. I smuggled this back home so that I could cut it up and use it as terrain for the very final boss fight in D&D. So that's where that came from.
00:28:35
Speaker
One other memory. So from the same session, the final boss, I had this really clever three-phased, multi-tiered boss planned. So I thought I'd have quite a difficult phase one where you guys beat me like, oh man, that was great. Then phase two would be really hard, and then phase three would be kind of like the classic Final Fantasy thing where they're actually not as tough.
00:28:59
Speaker
We go they get to the very first like turn you guys are just like this has been five years in the making was dust this bitch and instead of like playing the game like as you would in a video game where you just start with your basic attacks and what your way up you guys just hit every like the best moves across the entire
00:29:17
Speaker
Why would everyone hit the strongest move straight out the bat now? It always made me laugh so hard not to laugh thinking about it now. It's just one of my favorite memories because it was just like, at that point I realised the story I told was decent enough that you guys cared enough to kill this guy before he could do anything. He was like, oh, Jesus fucking Christ, it's this guy, maul him.
00:29:36
Speaker
Oh my god, I always remember that. So one of the best, because I was a gnome, or I was playing as a gnome, my character was very squishy. He wasn't good at combat, he wasn't good at fighting, but what he was good at was a lot of spells, a lot of long-range spells. So when he went up to the top, there was a spell that he knew called Shatter, and it was essentially, depending on the level that you rolled it at,
00:30:04
Speaker
you could throw like several dice at the one time and oh my god like I just I just went as Craig was saying I just went full out and then I think everyone just followed and then it was that moment where it was like I don't know it was like there was kind of a moment when it clicked and I kind of thought maybe this was a bad idea because I was I was kind of like
00:30:31
Speaker
this seems like very easy considering and yeah it was just it went completely like off the rails from there it was just kind of like oh my god but that was amazing though i mean i think sorry before i go into like mine is there any other favorites that you've got
00:30:51
Speaker
No, I think those are probably my top three. I think those are probably my top three. I did have some other good games with other people, but I think those are my top three. So, you know what, we're going to throw a fourth in. One of the sessions that you've been DMing, me and my wife have been playing kind of like two characters that know each other, and she plays as a kenku bard, sorry, a kenku rogue, so it can't speak English. You can only like repeat things. And that's been so fun. But like last session, so previous, when I was the DM, she played a cleric. I laid back kind of like,
00:31:21
Speaker
Holy our character, you know, I mean in this team she's playing like a pirate rogue and It was you had is like the two of us in handcuffs getting chased to this like bandit camp or something And it was just like this one rookie guard and I was to you just like a shankum Your face was like yeah, yeah shankum right now Do you know it's weird? Do you know it's weird because I like
00:31:52
Speaker
I don't know, yeah it was. It was like you'd gone into this bandit camp and I think you'd like come up with like this elaborate thing that you were pretending like to take this prisoner or something like that and then immediately as soon as your wife had seen like there was only one bandit in that camp she was just like yeah yeah I'd leap and shank him and I was like oh my god it threw me through a loop because I'm like
00:32:16
Speaker
Why? He was innocent. He was only one day away from retirement. Well other than the ones you mentioned like the whole Etsy getting destroyed by that. I mean that was amazing but I think honestly because I feel as if like my character
00:32:40
Speaker
So when I started, like my character was the stereotypical, oh, I want to be the best bard, you know, in the land. I want to get my name known out there. But slowly as I kind of became more comfortable with the game, it became a bit of a sneaky bugger. I'm not going to lie.
00:32:58
Speaker
like genuinely it was like some things um yeah some things were downright devious what he did because i always remember um because the way i played my character he was a bit cocky but at the same time it was like he wasn't the kind of cocky that he would betray his friends or anything it was like very loyal to the rest of the team kind of partly so obviously that didn't derail the game or anything but at the same time it was like
00:33:23
Speaker
He was like the kind of person that I wanted to kind of play him as. And I always remember there was one scene where one of our, I think it was a ranger,
00:33:35
Speaker
and it was Adam who was playing the radio. He got a pet crocodile at one point and for some reason I was feeling very cocky and I found this other bird and I show up to him you know like I'm like at his knees or something and I'm like you and I'm like you me arm wrestle.
00:33:54
Speaker
So yeah imagine like this tiny gnome versus like this mister turn this looking guy having like a magical arm wrestle and long story short I lost and what I had done was I had bet my friends Peck Rocketile on this match
00:34:15
Speaker
So I wasn't about to let him just walk away with that pet crocodile. I was like, shit, how am I going to get out of this? So what I remembered was, before we got into this tavern, Craig Yood said, oh, there's a dragon circling outside.
00:34:33
Speaker
and I was kind of like what if I could and this is going back to your like thing about flexibility it was like what if I convinced him that the crocodile was outside and I rolled and as soon as a guy like walked outside I just locked the door
00:34:55
Speaker
and then it was like flash forward to the morning and you're waking up early to get rid of the body and I was like what how am I playing my character? I genuinely started as like kind of a very innocent you know shonen protagonist and then got into yeah like indirect murder
00:35:19
Speaker
It's that comic. It's that comic we talk about quite a lot. I don't know who's the author of the comic originally, but it's like first session of the indie versus session 100. I mean it's like this clown and he's like I'm a big clown and I hit people in the face with pie. It's like session 100 he's like I've sacrificed myself for the greater good. Don't tell my wife or lover she already knows or something.
00:35:44
Speaker
It honestly sums up D&D so well though, doesn't it? Because yeah, even I got really serious. There was a turning point, I think it was the last season of your campaign when we were doing it, and spoilers in case you're keeping up with the lore.
00:36:08
Speaker
Yeah, come to me to find out. So if you want to catch up on the lore in the story, no I'm kidding. So yeah, it was like everything had basically gone to shit in the world. Like the bad guy had the upper hand, you know, it was the classic, like the villain was winning. And yeah, that's how my character, like my character as I said, like I think in the last season
00:36:32
Speaker
One of the highlights as well, I'm just thinking of the favourite memories, was when... Or did you find it? I don't know, I just suppose I didn't chat there. Nice. One of my favourite moments was when we were supposed to go to this island to kind of convince a... I think it was a prince or something for financial aid or something? Oh yeah. And basically, not to brag, but because my character was a bard, I was the most charismatic
00:37:02
Speaker
Right, so picture this, right, we're surrounded by all this opulence and all this wealth. This prince is like, he has been, you know, like taking people in the whole day and we managed to like sneak our way past and get in and have an audience with this really powerful prince. So he's sitting there and he says, you know, why are you here? Why do you need my help?
00:37:28
Speaker
Blimbro, the lovable bird, walks forward, takes a mouthful, takes a handful of pistachios, puts them into his mouth, and this is where I rolled up one. So halfway through my speech, I ended up choking. To the extent that the rogue who had just started in the party had to intervene as I was choking in the back.
00:37:57
Speaker
And it is, it's like going back to what you were saying before, it's like, you cannot predict like how a game's gonna go. See, even if you like map it out, if you say, right, the team's gonna go to, I mean, you can get the locations, like the team's gonna go to point A, point B, point C, you know, all of that. But you cannot like predict what is gonna happen there. Because I know like, and I don't know if you feel the same, but I've honestly been thrown through like such a loop.
00:38:27
Speaker
with the way some of you guys have interacted with some of the things in the world. And it is, it's just like you're sitting there thinking, oh my god, how do I write myself out of this one? Although I suppose, so this is kind of a bit off tangent, but
00:38:47
Speaker
this is another thing like see and honestly like I got like a real sense of appreciation see like when I started DMing and things and I got a real set like I knew it was like a lot of work but it's see when you're trying to like create a world you're trying to create it make it believable and things and then the media that you base it on
00:39:13
Speaker
essentially indirectly copies your idea.
Ideas and Inspirations for D&D Campaigns
00:39:18
Speaker
So yeah, this happened to me literally a week or two before I was about to start mine. And if you're into Game of Thrones, spoilers for the last season, so please cover your ears.
00:39:36
Speaker
Yeah, basically in my campaign there was kind of like a lower point where half of the city had been burnt down by a dragon.
00:39:46
Speaker
And I was writing this thinking, oh, this is so good. This is, you know, this is like a really good, you know, point that they can kind of interact with in the story. And then like a week before I was supposed to be doing this, the second last episode of Game of Thrones came on and I was watching it in disbelief thinking, no.
00:40:08
Speaker
No! So I remember, like, when I said it, like, everyone in the group looked at me like, what, a dragon burns down there? And I'm like, yes, yes, a dragon burned down half the city. Yes, yes, just like, get my throat, yes, yeah, yeah. I'm just like, can we just move on? It's just like, oh, I couldn't believe it. But I mean, like, is there any notable examples you can think of, like, for your ones?
00:40:36
Speaker
biggest one was I came up with this idea about this eye in the ground that was gonna be like a running cymbal for the main bad guys like where he drew his powers from was this like I decided about this like thing that lives in the earth and it was this eye you'd see and I described it and you anime went oh just like that thing from Fullmetal Alchemist was like
00:40:56
Speaker
No, no, it's totally different than I went back and watched from it all because I hadn't watched it yet. At that point, I went and watched it and I was like, yes, 100% the same thing. That was the exact same description I gave and everything. It's like, holy shit, I came up with something. I mean, maybe that's good that I'm as, you know, we're both telling stories that have been told by professionals. Maybe that's good. But like, I was furious. I was like, this thing was going to turn up in my campaign a hundred times and now it's not coming, never coming back.
00:41:24
Speaker
Oh is that why? It's like just like oh good. I've just imagined like the dramatic like writing on the notepad like giant eye died going back to his home planet. Like going on from like favorite memories and things. What would you say was like one of your favorite either creatures or races or things like that? What would you
00:41:55
Speaker
What would be your go-to, would you say? In terms of races, you get like ones that characters complain and you get ones that you can sort of make the monsters. Certainly for like the characters, barbarian, sort of like half-oaks, like that kind of like the big just chunky beefy boys, always gonna love that. In terms of monsters, I love the ones where you can give a little bit of personality to them.
00:42:19
Speaker
so i really like goblins because they can kind of be doofuses in my games like that i always have um doofus goblins and then i like um the opposite that we only encountered a few of them in our games but mindflaves you know they're they're really fun because they're quite like mysterious ethereal and kind of
00:42:40
Speaker
Oh, they're so wise, and they know so much more than what they give away and all this, and they communicate direct with techniques, and that's really fun to play with. And then the other third, final one, which is a bit of a subversion, but I've done it a couple of times in our game where I like the concept of liches.
00:42:59
Speaker
But I don't think that as cool as people make them out to be. So I get to do a subversion where they're usually a bit dumb in my games, you know what I mean? I had them a couple of times and they were more like skeleton caretakers than like full on wizard boys, you know what I mean? So I think I had two litches in my game and I hadn't realized it until later. But yeah, I had two litches and both of them were like janitors effectively. Oh my god. Big lover of that. Yeah.
00:43:27
Speaker
What about yourself? What have you got for favourite monsters and all that kind of races and stuff? I mean, I'm biased towards norms, of course, and...
00:43:37
Speaker
I absolutely love bard, like again, I know I played a known bard, but bard as a class is just so, I don't know, it's just such a fun class to play because there's so much you can do with it. As I said, when I played it, I saw the memes going around of people saying, oh, I roll to seduce the dragon. And I'm reading these memes thinking,
00:44:02
Speaker
Oh, so that's how you're supposed to play a... Like, I was a very angry gnome. I'm not gonna lie. Like, he went around, like, being very petty and, like, humour-wise, absolutely hilarious. But, like, in a kind of, like, character sense, it was like, yeah, he would never... Yeah, he definitely wasn't a flirter. That's all I'm saying. He was definitely... He was not a lover. He was a fighter. Not a very good fighter, but he was a fighter nonetheless.
00:44:33
Speaker
But for favourite creatures, in one of the first campaigns that I DM'd, I used one of the gelatinous cubes. And I never realised, because I know you didn't really use them as much in your game, but I remember using them in mine.
00:44:55
Speaker
I remember there was a bit at the end where you managed to fight it off and throw it away. And at the end it was like, oh, you've got a small one that follows you around. And I think you just straight up yeeted that right down the canyon. You were just like, nope. And it was like, but you could have had it. It could have been a fun psychic and you were like, nope.
00:45:20
Speaker
Exactly, down the hole. We can't have anything. The other one as well. What was the other one? I can't remember what they're called but it's like the frog people as well I thought were a lot of fun. I can't remember but they're a lot of fun.
00:45:43
Speaker
Other than a couple of instances, I don't think you had many dragons in your campaign, did you? I'm trying to remember if there was any instance where you did have a dragon in your campaign, but I don't think we had any.
Discussing D&D Creatures and Dragons
00:46:04
Speaker
for dragons at least in my campaign that was like they're kind of in the background and they exist but yeah they're not like front and center at the moment but I know there's a lot of people who absolutely love playing as
00:46:23
Speaker
you know or sorry playing with like dr- like i remember and i'm i mean i didn't really want it's like i didn't want to have to do this but oh i just remember there was like a bad experience that i had playing dnd and just long story short like in the end the dm was like really pleased with himself because like the main guy at the end was like a dragon in disguise
00:46:48
Speaker
and that was supposed to be a session that was supposed to be like for like beginner players and I was kind of like what? It was like oh yeah if he attacked him you would have died and I'm like what a welcoming way to like introduce D&D yeah by the way that guy's a dragon and he that guy's a dragon and he will kill you but yeah sorry I was asking there wasn't many um like dragons in your campaign was there?
00:47:18
Speaker
no it's difficult to do dragons well to be honest i think like our team never made it past level 10 or something i think overall oh yeah um and a lot of the dragons you get like the infant dragons but they're kind of not that fun to for my monster point of view like yeah i mean they're and but the adult dragons are super cool but there's nothing
00:47:38
Speaker
You can't deal with them until you're so much later on in the game, you know what I mean? There's no point putting a team of first-time adventurers against a dragon, you know what I mean? We had one or two on the side. We had one in a conversation and one that you guys had to run away from. And I think that's all I did with them. So yeah, it's the trick you can bring into the game. Yeah. Because I mean, they're so overpowered though as well, aren't they? That's genuinely something I'm worried about. I have to admit, like DMing for the first time.
00:48:05
Speaker
Because it's like you have to worry about when you're DMing, you have to worry about the level of the characters you're using or the level of the creatures or enemies you're using. And I remember the very first encounter, I was like rubbing my hands thinking,
00:48:21
Speaker
Ah, here we go, you know, this is gonna be it, you know. And I was like debating, I was like, is this like too many bandits I'm throwing at these guys? You guys like wiped them out in two seconds. And I was like, oh no. It's like, you know that scene, it's like a behind the scenes thing for like The Phantom Menace where it's like George Lucas talking about like the battle droids and he's like, oh yeah, they just cut through them like butter.
00:48:48
Speaker
yeah it's exactly like that it was just like you guys just like yep that's it I'm dead and I was like oh shit like I had to depend on the um like captain of the um not barbarian sorry the bandits um and yeah it was like even then like he wasn't a hard um like opponent it was just because he kept stolen and I think you guys kept missing him or he just kept partying something like that
00:49:17
Speaker
because he was like AC was like ridiculously high for the level and it was like yeah this is just and I think eventually someone put his head through a table but oh my god it was just it was amazing but yeah sorry just like moving on to the last question
00:49:36
Speaker
Yeah, this is kind of like, this is going to be very a whimsical future one, but what do you hope to do next, see for D&D?
Future Aspirations in D&D
00:49:44
Speaker
That's a good question. I'd like to go back to playing our game, not to put you on the spot, of course. No, none taken, I do need to.
00:49:54
Speaker
Apart from that, I'm keen to DM more, to be honest. It's one of those things, like, you know, playing a game is fun, but there's an itch I can't scratch for DM in a wee bit, and I'd like to go back to playing it. So, yeah, we'll see what happens. There's a lot of groups that meet up online and stuff, and I'd like to try that, I think, at some point. If Mint doesn't keep dropping out like I did today for some reason. But yeah, I think that's probably my next step is trying to look online. And just before all this, I was going to actually play a game at my local
00:50:21
Speaker
My local comic books show up but I haven't managed to get into that obviously because of world events.
00:50:26
Speaker
But yeah, that's probably, next up, probably DMing online. Nice. Yeah, I think I'm pretty much kind of following up on what you said. I'm probably the same, but more in the sense of I have to kind of kickstart our session again. Because after that, I was very nervous. And again, I'm not trying to butter you up here, so don't get any ideas. That is like, following from your campaign, our campaign was like,
00:50:56
Speaker
five years did you say? I think so. It was such a long time and I think maybe it's because of that that when I said well I'd like to give DMing a try I was like I was so nervous at it because I was like you know you're falling from a campaign that we've been playing for like so many years we've been getting so close and so like attached to these characters
00:51:22
Speaker
And then it's almost like, yeah, it's like you're kind of saying goodbye to them, you're closing the door on it. And it's just like, it's, I mean, even the last session, it's like, see like when we were leaving your flat that time and it's like you had them all lined up.
00:51:40
Speaker
You know like as silly as it sounds because we used to use like really cool Lego figures and yeah as like silly as it sounds it's kind of emotional when you like see that picture of them and think it's been about you know five years you know you've been playing with these characters and they've survived more or less well except for mine who died and then came back but we don't talk about that.
00:52:04
Speaker
I've got a wee treasure chest box on my bookshelf and inside that is all the characters. I haven't brought myself to take them apart or get rid of them. It's the main team and then Ansem, the bad guy. They're all there and I can't get rid of them. I can't dismantle them. They have to be there forever. That's amazing.
00:52:24
Speaker
Honestly, it is. It's just so, like, you do. You get so emotionally invested and I think, like, it's definitely something that I don't know if people who haven't played D&D, kind of, I wouldn't say don't understand. Like, I'm not gonna, like, be gatekeeping saying, you don't understand! He was a known bird!
00:52:46
Speaker
it is, it's like you get attached, I mean it's like a video game as well, you get so attached to playing the one character or the one game and then when you come to the end of that and you've just so thoroughly enjoyed it, you're just like yeah it's kind of heartbreaking to be like this is the last kind of session and that's it. I don't get me wrong it doesn't mean like oh it's the end of you know Dungeons and Dragons, you could still go on to other campaigns and things but
00:53:17
Speaker
yeah it's just like that kind of ending like in wanting to give your characters that you've been attached to like justice. That was difficult as well because there was one point where I was like do we keep going yeah like that was a hard question to ask and that's the open it was we've reached the end of this four-year story but I'm not ready to end
00:53:39
Speaker
the game, you know what I mean? I wasn't able to stop playing. And I was like, do we just keep going? Do I invent another three-year story? You know what I mean? You've got the Marvel problem. It's like what's happening now. I'm like, Anas is dead now. So that was kind of a wee bit. I was like, do we try again? Do we keep going, see if the magic comes back? And I thought, no, if we kill them, if we leave it now, write them an ending. And then it was difficult, though, to say goodbye, so to speak. And it's such a weird way of putting it.
00:54:09
Speaker
You're locking up part of our shared history, we've always enjoyed this thing together and we're like cool that's it done. It's a really weird sensation. Because it was like what you were saying before about the whole social aspect and
00:54:24
Speaker
as I said, the first time I met a lot of those people we played D&D with, a lot of them were just casual acquaintances or the only reason I met them was because you and I would go to certain events with them. So it was just by chance we would start
00:54:44
Speaker
we would just start chatting about different things. But it's the fact that we were all kind of together, we were all chatting, just sharing things. Not even about D&D, but just our day and things. And in that way, it got us so close, that way. So it was like,
00:55:01
Speaker
the part that part of D&D was I don't know it almost felt like and again I'm getting sappy like this but almost felt more like a kind of like social event if you know what I mean like in a mini social event where you just got to hang out with your friends and when that session kind of ended like after all those years you kind of thought yeah as you said like
00:55:27
Speaker
where do you go from here? And it is, it's just it's such a weird sensation thinking yeah like after you've been doing that for so long and you've kind of built up a routine. I mean like feel free to stop my crank but yeah it's like you have this kind of routine that you're constantly talking to people and then once you stop that it's like
00:55:53
Speaker
You know, it's like that kind of joke where it's like they look around and they go, oh, what now? Yeah, it's a great game though. It's an absolutely fantastic game. In fact, sorry, before we kind of finish up, I've got a question for you. What would you say is more important than D&D? Would you say it is the role playing aspect or the core gameplay?
00:56:16
Speaker
I'd say that as a DM, I'd say that's a question you have to have with your players. So for me, it's always been roleplay.
00:56:27
Speaker
That's the thing I like, but there's a lot of people who play D&D just for the rules, like just to play the combat. People that have kind of followed D&D, you know, you get the different editions of Dungeons and Dragons. Dungeons and Dragons 4, but it wasn't that many. It was away from like a war game, like a tabletop war game. There were tons of rules while D&D 5 went, and we'll get rid of a lot of the rules.
00:56:50
Speaker
One tool that I see quite a lot is really cool. It's like the session zero plan or the same session zero or something it's called. I'll dig that out and put it into this code. But that's really good for getting everyone thinking the same. I actually sent it out to you guys originally. It's just like, do you like combat? Yes or no? Do you like this? Yes or no? The idea is trying to get everyone on the same page because I love the role-playing side. But if everyone wants to play combat,
00:57:19
Speaker
You're gonna have to change it, you know what I mean? But that's what, again, the flexible thing at D&D is. Yeah, no, absolutely. That actually sounds really awesome, though. Because, yeah, I know what you mean. Like, I have heard tourist stories of, like, bad campaign. You know, it sounds like an American reality TV show where it's like, D&D campaign's gone wrong. And don't get me wrong, like, there's, like, there's nothing wrong with, um,
00:57:42
Speaker
like playing your character like to be you know like to be I don't want to say useful but you know to be able to like combat things and things like that there's nothing wrong with that like and again there's like nothing no wrong way to play D&D but I know there are some people who as you said they prefer the rules and they kind of focus only on that but
00:58:06
Speaker
beyond that it's like they don't interact with the other players and i feel as if like they're kind of missing a trick there but i mean personally for me i would definitely say as a player definitely the role-playing aspect because again it's like a social it is it's definitely a social game
00:58:23
Speaker
and yeah thank you all so so much for dropping my for the first episode of Chats and Ami honestly it was yeah it was actually pretty amazing and sorry just in case you drop it again do you want to advertise where we can find you in the future?
Conclusion and Social Media Plugs
00:58:38
Speaker
You can find me on Twitch, I guess, but mainly find me on Twitter, at Bierntjelpod and on Instagram. But yeah, you can catch me on Twitter under those names or also Craig Ali Martin on Twitter. Yeah, it's all from me. Thanks for having me on.
00:58:56
Speaker
Yeah, no problem. Thank you. No, thank you for coming on. And yeah, seriously, guys, if you get the chance, like, check out the Bear and Shell podcast. I'm not saying this because I've been on it, but genuinely it is such a fun podcast to, like,
00:59:14
Speaker
I mean, even be a part of, because I was on the, I think it was like the PlayStation 1's 20th celebration one, was it? I think. 25th thing. 25th, sorry. God, I'm old. Where did the time go? But yeah, I was on that and it was like a blast, like taking part in it. And I don't want to say like the rest of them. I mean, you guys talk about like so many subjects.
00:59:44
Speaker
Like, I think, what was the recent one you did?
00:59:47
Speaker
This week we spoke to another podcast, the Horgasm Podcast, the massive horror fans. We just chatted about Halloween. It was really interesting. They're both from Canada, I grew up in Scotland, and Jan, my co-host, is from Czech Republic. So hearing all the different backgrounds in Halloween, it was actually really cool. So I'd recommend checking it out. Come out every Monday at two o'clock, and next week we're doing
01:00:13
Speaker
sort of like ghost and horror stories from around the world as well so kind of same idea um from the different backgrounds before what it was coming from so yeah recommend checking it out um obviously i would it's my show but uh yeah please do don't check out i don't want you to know is that reverse psychology at the end there yeah yeah no please don't don't check out my show it'd be so embarrassing oh no the horror
01:00:42
Speaker
But no, seriously guys, check it out. It's an awesome podcast and you'll probably see me retweeting a lot about it, but genuinely, it's awesome.