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00:00:01
Demi, Chappell & TS12 (with DJ John Michael)
134 Plays14 days ago
Two major releases and one huge announcement define this episode of HOMOPHONIC. First up, we finally dive into Chappell Roan’s highly anticipated single and music video, “The Subway.” Next, we break down Demi Lovato’s high-energy comeback single, “Fast.” And last but definitely not least, we explore everything we know (so far) about Taylor Swift’s upcoming project, “The Life of a Showgirl,” produced by Max Martin and Shellback.
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Transcript
Exploring Remix Culture and Iconic Collaborations
00:00:08
Speaker
There's a song by, do you know the German DJ Topic? He had a hit with a song called Breaking Me, which I feel like he would probably like. Okay. um And a couple other ones, but he did, ah there was this big Afro House song that I think the Chainsmokers had done recently with like a collaboration with somebody.
00:00:25
Speaker
Okay. And so it's the same woman doing a song with this DJ and I just fell in love with the song. So i was like, you know what? I think I'm just going to take this on. And I sat down started doing it and I'm like, We'll see what I can put together. And then now I have like a nine minute like anthem.
00:00:39
Speaker
I love that. Oh my God. Yes. Come on, anthem. You know, I have to, I was going to tell you the other day that I was listening to your remix of Nirvana by Katy Perry. Oh my God. It's so annoying because like I really wanted that to be a thing.
00:00:53
Speaker
And I just like, I took it to a certain point and then I just like lost steam, I feel. Yeah. So you're probably the only person that will hear this. Well, I feel very honored because i yeah, i I'm going to be honest.
00:01:05
Speaker
I have been kind of revisiting 143 a little bit. You know, I'm just saying, we said this would happen. i think so. I think we did. And I'm not saying that we're prophets or oracles, but we are.
Concert Versus Studio Versions: A Musical Debate
00:01:18
Speaker
The Southern Oracle from The NeverEnding Story. That's us. There's plenty of issues with the album. It's not perfect by any any stretch, but it is not as bad as we, I think, all were kind of gaslit into believing.
00:01:33
Speaker
and i mean, clips from the concert seem like something. Yeah, and I know here's the thing. I do think that the studio versions from the concert are better than the album versions, which is I think the kind of the issue that we had talked about and to begin with is that we felt we felt like that there were certain songs that didn't really fully go there the way that we want dance pop to go there, right?
00:01:56
Speaker
Nirvana being a good example is that after that first chorus, you think that there was going to be a beat drop and like an instrumental break and that didn't happen. Right, right. So things like that were like, you know, some of the concert versions were beefed up a little bit and extended and things like that. And that's kind of what we wanted and hoped for because just with dance music, you need to give it that room to breath breathe.
00:02:19
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And so anyway, with that said, I mean, there are some great songs and your remix of Nirvana is incredible. Yeah. Thank you very much. I'll see if I could put a clip online at some point, but you should. yeah I don't know. i was, I, I, I, I really just, I feel like out of all the songs, that's the one that that'll be the one that we don't talk about enough.
00:02:39
Speaker
it It is, it is. you know Yeah. It's, it's really good. but But it's everybody's been talking because she just came through New York. So everybody's been talking about the concert and stuff. I'm not really, I guess, because
The Unseen World of Pop Remixes
00:02:50
Speaker
I haven't seen it and I've only seen the clips online and I don't, obviously, you know, you, you kind of have to take it into, you know, if you're there,
00:02:56
Speaker
Everybody looks like they're having a good time and the set list looks incredible. But she looks, I don't know, is it like, is she trying to be robotic? Is that the whole thing with the show? Like I'm trying to figure it out because there's some parts with the dancing where it looks ah quirky, but maybe intentionally so. I just can't figure out if it's intentional or not.
00:03:16
Speaker
Yeah, I think, I mean, I think that she, I don't think that she's ever tried to be a a serious dancer. And I think that she's always had that. Yeah, I think from my understanding, I think that the theme of the show is like it's a video game.
00:03:30
Speaker
And so I think that she's playing a character and kind of going through different levels. And like the whole show is like different levels. And the, you know, you finish the game by the end of this concert. And so... yeah Got it. Okay, I didn't get that context. that meant That makes a lot more sense to me. Right, yeah. And that's the thing is like, you know, with you know when the tour first started and people were kind of putting her on blast for the dancing and you saw these like extreme close-ups of, you know, whatever. And it's kind of like, you guys, like,
00:03:58
Speaker
Quite literally Zoom out And right right you need to see the full production And also just that's how she's always been She's always been a quirky Silly pop star She's always done everything It's never that serious for her right And that's what I said too Because like when people were talking and i was like i don't I said when have you known her to be like super serious?
00:04:19
Speaker
I was like I can't really like pinpoint a time Where I've looked at Katy Perry and been like Oh wow this is like a really like deep and meaningful story Right. You know. Yeah. And, you know, it's interesting because she she had posted a small snippet of the studio version of the remix that she does for I Kissed a Girl in the concert, which is, have you heard it? Yes.
00:04:39
Speaker
It, like, starts off with, like, a newly, like, kind of sounding version of the original, and then it goes into this, like, full-on club remix that is... We need it. We need it.
00:04:50
Speaker
We need it. Like, put it on streaming. Please. she's i would like like i would love if she did like a remix album for this album and then did a couple bonus tracks of like remixes of the greatest hits. like That would be so cool.
00:05:02
Speaker
Totally. I wish that, I mean, i guess the record labels probably and aren't going to invest that type of money, but I'm like, it would be so cool to, especially for somebody like Katy Perry when an album anniversary comes up, like, don't just repackage it. Don't just give me new artwork. like I don't want like just random shit. like do an entire remix album.
00:05:18
Speaker
Just yeah give it to a bunch of people. There's 10 tracks on the album, get 10 remixes, one for each and just make it a thing. Yeah, like that would be that would be really cool. I mean, if Paris Hilton can do it with her album, I think that Katy Perry could do it for an album anniversary.
Chapel Rhone's Timeless Musical Influence
00:05:31
Speaker
Oh, 100%. Yeah. Especially because I feel like albums like a Teenage Dream and even, what was the first one? One of the Boys, I think. Yep. that All of those sort of iconic albums, like pop albums, came out in that era when the remixes were still very sort of like weird, electro-y, like we weren't really...
00:05:51
Speaker
Yeah. a lot of them didn't really hold stand the test of time i think brit fall's subject is is falls victim to this too with a lot of her remixes but yeah that's why i just i would love to see that's when when they just did the oops i did it again they put two new remixes and i'm like let's do more of that but do the whole album but let's do more of that do the whole yeah yeah i love that you said that because i remember specifically with some a lot of the teenage dream singles ah for California Girls and Teenage Dream itself, those are such lush pop songs that they are kind of hard to remix, especially during that time period when it was this like very aggressive electro style, which I don't mind. some of That sometimes works really well.
00:06:29
Speaker
Yeah, sometimes it works really, really well. yeah But I remember for like California Girls, like every remix that official remix that came out of it, I want to say that there was this one called, was it Inner System? Inner, something like that. yeah i just I remember hearing and I was like, well...
00:06:43
Speaker
I mean, I guess this works for something, but I was like... But I don't know what it is. This doesn't... Yeah. I don't know. I'm i'm very particular with with my remixes. Yeah. And i mean, we I think that we all know by now that we love our remixes. Right, right. um But just because something is remixed doesn't mean we love it and doesn't mean we hate it. It's just... true Yeah.
00:07:02
Speaker
I just... I think what I love is like, you know, we always hearken back to the 90s and the early
Impact of 'Underplays' in Music Marketing
00:07:07
Speaker
2000s of, you know, remix era, but... There is just so much musicianship and musicality put into those remixes. Like I was listening to something. i don't remember what remix it was the other day.
00:07:17
Speaker
But, you know, this trend of this sped up really just like, don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you I'm a little, i feel like that that's today's version of like the 2009 electro.
00:07:31
Speaker
ah Totally. And I think that a lot of that has to do with like the boiler room type sets. Yeah. Yeah. that sort of like frantic energy because i was talking to somebody one of my friends who went to rose gray was just here in new york uh last past weekend or this past week or whatever um and one of my friends went and so i was talking to him yesterday and he's like she was really really good but the venue held like less than 200 people he's like and she clearly could have gotten a bigger venue and whatever had like a bigger thing
00:08:02
Speaker
And I said, yeah, I said, but you know what? I kind of feel like sometimes these things are kind of manufactured for the moment for social media. yeah it's like, if you have that sort of like fans all like on top of each other, like creating that sort of chaos, like it plays better from a marketing perspective, I think on social media. So a lot of these moments or these like, what are they calling them now? Underplays. I think that's what the industry has been calling them.
State of the Remix Industry: Quality and Budgets
00:08:25
Speaker
Underplays where like the artist comes and will like perform like a bunch of songs off the new work. so Interesting. Yeah. So I think that there's there are certain things that are done for a specific reason. I can't say that that's exactly what Rose Gray was doing for sure. but Yeah.
00:08:39
Speaker
to me that knowing that adds a little bit more context i think when i see things out and about in the real world. Interesting. Yeah. I mean, I love that i think it's a great tactic, this underplay tactic. Because I mean, you know, kind of goes back to the days when people would play their stuff in the clubs to test it out, you know, remix wise or other. yeah um Yeah. I mean, it's interesting. I don't know. i'm I'm ready to, I would love to see a little bit more musicianship put back into some remixes.
00:09:06
Speaker
Not to like diss anyone. And there are still some really great, there's some great remixes. Oh yeah. In fact, I think we mentioned it on a previous episode, but the remix package for Kesha's Boy Crazy. Yes. I was actually really impressed with that. the There's a lot of really good remixes on there.
00:09:22
Speaker
And they weren't big names? No, not all. I think that that's, well, I think that that's part of where some of this gets lost in because, I feel like budgets are a thing now and how much are they going to pay for these remixes and who can they get for this amount of money? And it's like, you know, it does marquee.
00:09:39
Speaker
I don't think that to the younger audience, I don't think that the names matter. No. You know, I don't think that like to the Gen Z audience, like, you know,
00:09:51
Speaker
I don't even know who would bridge that gap, but like ah like a David Morales doesn't matter to them. ah um Who's still... right Like I think it's just like... Junior Vasquez. Right, but not even but even more recently, Freemasons or Motoblanco or just anybody like that's... I just don't think that anybody that would be a normally marquee name... Mm-hmm.
00:10:11
Speaker
matters to this generation. I think because everybody is, everybody's a DJ now. Everybody's a producer You know, like there's so much like the internet made that's so available to everybody. Yeah. But I think they just sort of do their own thing and it's like, cool, this is what we like and they just sort of like bop along to it. I don't think there's just not as much thought into it.
00:10:27
Speaker
Right. You know, what crazy is that i was, you know, browsing Twitter the other day, doom scrolling, if you will. And there was a Lady Gaga fan site that made a post that they were like, they said, wait, Lady Gaga and Marilyn Manson collaborated.
00:10:43
Speaker
And it was the Love Game remix by Chufu. Right. That they were talking about. And I and I literally commented. I was like, wait. you're a fan site for lady gaga and had no idea that this existed right and they were like well i don't listen to remixes and i was like okay again you're a lady gaga ah fan site right who is unaware who doesn't one doesn't listen to remixes and then two had no idea that this is like existing in the world i was like which is such a big part of her discography Yeah, I was like, she performed that on her Monster Ball tour, which was like her, one of her magnum opuses, you know, it was just
Defining Musical Fame and Cultural Impact
00:11:21
Speaker
kind of like, I don't know. I thought that was, was like, if you're going to, you're be a Stan page, then be a Stan page.
00:11:27
Speaker
Right. Not a half-assed Stan. Exactly. i was just kind of like, I was like, and then i think I even said, I was like, it's, it's strange to me when people are fans of dance pop artists, but then like adamantly hate remixes.
00:11:43
Speaker
Like to that's- And I get it. Some of them are not great. Like some of them, like they're really like- True. I have to say, I was going through Britney's today ah just to for like a future playlist that I was working on. And they're really, some of them are just poorly done. Like, and and I know that some of them are of the time, but like- Even from like a quality standpoint, there's parts. And again, technology being what it was, kick drums don't sound great. Snare thing, like things are not mixed well. Like the mastering is all over the place. Like a lot of it is very messy. And I'm like, this is Britney motherfucking Spears. Yeah, that's real. That's real.
00:12:17
Speaker
I know she's always been, her remixes have been kind of hit or miss with me. there There'll be like maybe two or three that like fucking slap. And then you'll have five or six where you're just kind of like, who did this? Who did this?
00:12:28
Speaker
Who did this? And they're like big names too. So it's like, yeah. yeah Yeah. It's funny. ah We must have been on a wavelength because we, I also was going through. So for my volleyball team, the Volleypartons.
00:12:41
Speaker
Shout out to the Volleypartons. Right. That photo shoot that you just posted on your personal one. i was so cute. I love it so much. Thank you. I was very excited about that. I was like, I was, I had this idea. I was like, I was like, I was like, you guys, I'm going bring my camera to the game this week. I was like, everyone, you know, make sure you're wearing your uniform.
00:12:57
Speaker
um And i was like, I'm going to get photos of everyone jumping individually. i was like i'm going to composite the photos. We're going to this whole thing. It turned out very cute. I loved It really did. Thank you. um But we, you know, obviously call ourselves the Vali Partons, but we also, we obviously all love Britney Spears. And ironically, a couple of weeks ago, um the Chris Cox Megamix, uh,
00:13:22
Speaker
came on the playlist i wonder who i wonder who added that don't i wonder who added that anyway like it gave us so much life and like we ended up we won both of our games that day and so i was by the power of chris cox they the power of chris cox the holy spirit if you will and and so i was like i'm gonna all the britney i can to this playlist now um But I was going through like the remixes and everything. And I was like, again that there were certain ones that I was like, oh my God, I forgot about this. This is so fun. This is so fun. This is so fun. And then I also was going through and I was like, okay, we're not going to do that one. We're not going that one. We're not going do that one. No, like the one that i that I was really upset about, I really wanted to be better was the ah Express 2 vocal mix for My Prerogative.
00:14:07
Speaker
Yeah. ah the the My prerogative remixes are rough. oh They're very rough. That era, yeah. Armand Van Halden in and that time period was like, let's go nuts.
00:14:18
Speaker
Yeah. He did. Oh, yeah. They all did. They all did. He did. But you know what remixes I want for from Britney to be on streaming that are really, really good? And I have a theory. I kind of have a theory about remixes.
00:14:31
Speaker
I feel like, especially back in the day, The more singles deep you went into an album. So let's say you were on the third, fourth, maybe fifth single. I oftentimes feel like the remixes got better because I think that there was less of a chance that the song was going to be a huge hit.
00:14:48
Speaker
So they really put their all into it. i am completely theorizing here. but I love that though, but but I like it. I feel like that because a lot of my favorite remixes from that time period are usually on like the third or fourth singles. Right. anyway, so Outrageous was supposed to be the fourth single from In the Zone. Yeah.
00:15:05
Speaker
And then um so the remixes that were commissioned, which were released in Japan, the Junkie XL tribal mix. they They were released on vinyl here. Yes. But only vinyl.
00:15:16
Speaker
Right. And so Junkie XL did two remixes. It's a dance hall version and a tribal version. The tribal version is fucking fire. Yeah. and I probably listened to that more than the original. yeah Same.
00:15:28
Speaker
Yeah. Same. It's so good. And... was used in early, early, early trailers for the Halle Berry Catwoman movie. It was, so i believe, supposed to be a tie. I think that it was supposed to be like on the soundtrack for that movie. But then, obviously, Britney hurt her knee. They canceled the music video, canceled the tour, scrapped the release of the song in the States.
00:15:49
Speaker
And then they switched the song in the trailer to Mystique's Scandalous. Oh my God, that's right. Oh my God. I love that song too. so So, so, so scandalous.
00:16:00
Speaker
my Oh my God. Stargate at their finest. At their finest. Like beyond. I still listen to that. So, so good. But yeah, I think that, so that's a good example of, there are some other good remixes like by Merc.
00:16:16
Speaker
Who else? Lenny Bertaldo did an, ah like a, I didn't make the official commission, but he did a good remix. Yeah. He did a good mix of also that never, I don't even think it was, I don't even know if it came out on the vinyl or not, but um of maybe one more time.
00:16:31
Speaker
um Did he? Yeah, yeah. Oh, I have not heard that. Yeah, it's the more like mainstream-y one. And I think that it was, ah it felt more, it was on like, you used to be able to buy CDs at your local car washes and tanning salons in Staten Island. And so they would, these DJs would do like these mix CDs and I have tons of them from back in the day. And so that was on a bunch of them that I would that i would get from the tanning salon was the Britney. What a find. Oh my God. yeah do you say I think I have it.
00:16:59
Speaker
I think I have it. I have to see. I'll send it to you. I was going to say, like find it and send it to me, or like you should like bring it onto the pod one of these days, because that would be while. Oh, yeah, I have to find the cd Absolutely. Do have it?
00:17:12
Speaker
No, it's probably like in my storage unit. I got to go look. Okay. Okay. But yeah, but that's ah that was a good remix. there's a There's a lot of them that didn't make their way to streaming, but they're getting there. they're They're getting there. I was pleasantly surprised that they did all the remix EPs for the Oops! album.
00:17:28
Speaker
Yes. Because we had been saying that we were like, you know, if... with the repackaged version of the album, we were like, oh, we would have put this that on there and this on there. And then they must've heard us. and They must've heard us because they said, we'll just give it to you all. So they put all of the remixes for all the singles on on streaming. So yeah, thank you. Thank you, RCA, for doing that for us. I was gonna say Jive, but you're no longer existing.
00:17:50
Speaker
No, but we appreciate you. Jive forever. Jive forever. We're going on jiving. Okay. So since the last time we spoke. a lot has happened. A lot has happened. We've had a couple of big releases.
00:18:02
Speaker
We finally have the subway. I was going to say, i don't know which one you want to go to first, but let's, let's do it. I just watched the music video. Oh my gosh. Is it not beautiful? It is incredible.
00:18:14
Speaker
Yeah. when it's when First of all, all the looks are incredible. And I love the whole like hair holding memories kind of thing. like And that thread that goes throughout, which is such a beautiful way of doing this. But when it cuts to her with the in the business casual with the short red hair and like the wind.
00:18:31
Speaker
I... Oh my God. i was like, you are serving so much pussy and cons. Right. I was like, wig. Come on, wig. Oh my God. And she herself said, like, I'm fighting every day to not cut my hair into a bob right now.
00:18:47
Speaker
God. It's so good. It looks so phenomenal on her. it For some reason, that particular part was really giving me Cyndi Lauper, and I don't know why Yes. But it was just – there was an energy about it. There was just something.
00:18:59
Speaker
And she just – chap Chappell's so interesting to me because she is probably the most real person of the pop
Chapel Rhone's Cultural Significance
00:19:08
Speaker
girls. Like every interview, I mean, she is not very media trained.
00:19:12
Speaker
She's very honest about how she feels about the industry and her career and everything like that. So it's really interesting when you then see her in a music video and she is giving full on, you know, main star energy. like And there there's one cut when she's in the subway where she's like leaning on the pole and then she throws her head back and it's the first time you see her in the full glam. Yeah. That cut, I like gasped a little and I was like, it was so good. Just absolutely brilliant. um So good. Shout out to, wait, who is the the director? Amber Grace Johnson. Shout out you because that.
00:19:48
Speaker
Seriously incredible Incredible And she I believe filmed it on 33 Or 35 millimeter film Like it was all filmed on film and which Which makes so much sense Because there's so much vibrancy And ah depth to the imagery In the video And it's it's stunning like I mean the song is just gorgeous Gorgeous.
00:20:12
Speaker
Gorgeous. And it's its it's one of those, I feel like what we're getting out of Chapel, and i think that, you know, obviously Good Luck Babe is ah is a good example of this, is she's kind of writing, and I don't want to be a little early saying this maybe in her career, but she's kind of writing forever songs.
00:20:31
Speaker
Yeah. She You know, like is it's, she really, like, I feel like Good Luck Babe is one of those songs that will sustain for a very, very long time. Yep. I completely agree. Yeah. There's something about there is a nostalgia to her music.
00:20:44
Speaker
Yes. While maintaining, dreamy, while maintaining something timeless um and something fresh. Like she's putting out stuff that, you know, is current, but also not necessarily on the radio, or at least like it comes out first.
00:21:02
Speaker
We're not, we don't hear it. We don't hear anything on the radio right now. That sounds like the subway. No, and I feel like it's, for me, sonically sitting somewhere between like Fleetwood Mac, Stevie Nicks, and Kacey Musgraves.
00:21:15
Speaker
And it's like there's somewhere in between, because it's like a little country-ish. It's just a touch, like a little folky, but it's still very, very sort of 70s easy listening, like Yacht Rocky, Yacht Pop.
00:21:25
Speaker
Yeah. Something about it to me was kind of giving almost Lilith Fair in a way Totally. I don't know what or whom necessarily, but I just like, I hear it and I'm like, oh my God, I could hear this going off at the Lilith Fair. Oh God.
00:21:42
Speaker
Lesbians, wake up. Wake up, lesbians. We're going. We're going to the subway. Right. um God. But like, and again, that outro. I mean, ah the amount of times that gets stuck in my head yeah and i just find myself singing it or humming it, it's And I've, I'm, I cannot wait to see what my Apple replay is for August because I have listened to this song an obnoxious amount of Oh yeah, I'm sure. Like, like the day, so we actually, so the day it came out at, um but it came out on a Thursday night at 8 p.m. at my volleyball game that we play.
00:22:17
Speaker
And I made a big deal about it. I said, I was like at eight o'clock. we are stopp We're stopping the playlist and we're listening to the new chapel song. And so i remember I was like, i remember like looking around and I was like, what time is it? And someone goes, 8.03 and I go, it's out!
00:22:29
Speaker
And so I like stopped everything and we ran over and we started and we listened to the song and a lot of people were like, it's a ballad? And I was like, You didn't know it was being performed for the last year?
00:22:42
Speaker
like Nobody lives in – you have to realize nobody lives in the same world that we do. No, that's so – I know. And I kind of forget that. know. I kind of forget that. I'm like, i'm like come on.
00:22:53
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. Because there was someone – there were two people specifically on you know my – who follow me on A Functioning Gay. And they had reached out as the song was coming out. And they were like – They were like, I can't believe it's a ballad. And I was like, babe, where have you been? i was like, she has been performing this song since Governor's Ball last year. like i was like and what was interesting what i think what's what I find interesting that's different between you and I is that with something if there's anything new, we go out of our way to actually look it up and and learn more about it to see if there's any more information about it. right
00:23:27
Speaker
A lot of people don't do that. No. Media literacy is in the toilet. they They will like hear something and they will just hear it and like let it go and don't care. Yeah. they yeah so i just So I was just like, i'm like this it's not like this song was secretive by any means. like This was...
00:23:46
Speaker
No, and this is, but I i mean, i do it partly because it's my job too. So it's like there's a that other side of it. You do it from just like an absolute lover of music, which is why I think this obviously works. But it's, yeah I think that again, there's, there's i think that's something that the internet has sort of,
00:24:03
Speaker
done is we're so used to consuming so quickly that it's like you you just, you absorb, you read it, it's the top, it's the headline, and then you could sort of keep moving on. You listen to a clip, it's 30 seconds, it's 15 seconds. And so you just sort of like move, move, move. And it really does require effort and it requires, ah you know if you're going to be a really good fan of somebody's work,
00:24:23
Speaker
to sit down and be like, well, what is this project about? What is she trying to say? Like the lyric change at the end from she's she's got a way to she got away is so beautiful to me. And it's like heartbreaking and beautiful, beautiful. Like it's just, I just got goosebumps, right? Like it's so subtle and it's so slight, but when you realize it, it's just like, it's just a wonderful moment. And,
00:24:44
Speaker
you're never going to get that in the 15 second clip online. No. You know? So it's like, it's, you've really got to dial yourself in. I feel like being an actual fan or a stan for those that call them stans, like it's a choice and you've got to really go sort of into it. So you again, I, I always go back to Madonna with Madam X because I'm just, when the songs were coming out, I was like, all right, you know what? Some of these are a little off the wall, but I'm going to guess just from what I know about her, there's a greater picture here. There's a story. This is part of a bigger,
00:25:14
Speaker
body of work and I just got to trust and see what happens because I think was when she released Dark Ballet i remember being in a museum texting with my friends Dan and Ryan and I'm sitting there with my headphones on while Ryan's looking at paintings and I'm like I just need to listen to this for a second hold on hold on and listening to it I was like what the actual fuck is this. Yeah.
00:25:35
Speaker
And it was like cheese what does she say in your, in your, ah what what hoodie does she describe? ah She describes in your or something hoodie. Oh, and Supreme? Supreme. Yeah. Yeah. yeah And I was like, I, and I'm just sitting there listening with my headphones and i'm like, this is so bizarre. But anyway, and I ended up loving the greater body that was Madame X and the whole like vision of it. And I loved it. So that's,
00:25:58
Speaker
yeah People don't do that. Like, it's just sort of like the quick whatever. Yeah. And that's the thing about music is that like, you know, and I get it. We live in this, in this very quick time where you are, you know, turning things out and turning stuff, kind of referencing Beyonce. Right. She's like, people just put out singles and it burns out. put up Nobody puts out albums anymore. Nobody puts out out albums anymore. And God is real. It's like my favorite thing to say. Right.
00:26:22
Speaker
But nobody, nobody put out albums. Right. And there's a lot of truth to that. But, you know, what we always find, and I, i eat record labels listen, and we've said this before on the show, like, when artists are able to do what they are passionate about,
00:26:39
Speaker
and when they're able to ah create and create this timeless music we always see it succeed right we all and in the end and it you know maybe at first maybe at first it might not click right it might not be this massive number one hit that's number one for 19 weeks but how many times now have we seen people go back even within the last like two three years they're like wait a minute this was actually really good right we right but because you give it a chance right you don't give it a chance and then all of a sudden like It comes on shuffle and you're just like, wait a minute, wait a minute. Maybe i didn't I didn't actually listen to this with the proper ears. There's a lot of that happening. And I think that there's going to be a lot of albums that do not get their sort of comeuppance or their flowers until long after.
00:27:22
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. You know what I found was really interesting? I think we might have talked about this. I don't think we talked about it in the show yet.
Debating True Musical Hits
00:27:27
Speaker
But when the subway was about to come out, someone messaged me and it had the audacity to say this. And I want to get your opinion on this.
00:27:32
Speaker
Uh-oh. They said Chapel Rhone has never had a real hit. I don't even, what what are we even talking about? What does that even mean? Meaning that they, I asked them and they said, said that she has not had a hit outside of like a viral internet hit. And I was whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
00:27:51
Speaker
i was like i I was like, I can respect that you and that you think that, but I was like, you cannot, I was like, I cannot go anywhere without hearing at least one of the three.
00:28:03
Speaker
Good luck, babe. yeah Pink Pony Club. Hot to go. Yep. I was like, those are three very real classic, the classic way that we know of a hit, because you are hearing this.
00:28:17
Speaker
Children were playing the songs at at weddings, at funerals. And I'm te right. Another amazing clip. um But I think that like when i when I hear a song like Hot To Go, I can guarantee that at some point it will make its way into sports stadiums and that will be a song that they play during sports events.
00:28:35
Speaker
Totally. Like easily. Like there's there's there's certain things that it's like when you are in the... I hate to use the word zeitgeist. I really do. But when you're in that sort of cultural zeitgeist, it is what it is. So you can't, what is a hit?
00:28:48
Speaker
Because if you're going to sit here and say, oh, well, it has to have x amount of streams or it has to be on this amount of billboard charts or whatever, that's not a hit. That's not a hit to me. Like a hit these days, you need to be in the cultural conversation and you have to be in the something that's going to last in the conscience of people because we hear many, many songs that come in and come and go. We talk about this on almost every episode, but like, I'm sorry, Chapel, you've already got three as far as I'm concerned because Pink Pony Club will be played every year at Pride. and Yep.
00:29:17
Speaker
Good luck, babe. We'll be at every Zara, H&M, CVS, any other store that you can, it will be eternal because it's the soft rock one. And then HOT, Hot To Go is going to be the one that I guarantee gets to like cheerleading competitions and sports stadiums and different things like that. Watch.
00:29:33
Speaker
And it's already there. I mean, when we saw her blow up last year at Lollapalooza alone, when you saw that that aerial clip that ah zoomed out from the crowd and you saw the entire crowd doing the hot to go dance, I'm sorry. that That's not just sustained within the internet walls.
00:29:49
Speaker
you know right And you also don't get that very, very often. Like maybe maybe you do with some TikTok dances and that pops up every once in a while, but something like that, like that's like a YMCA moment. ah Totally. 100%. You don't get that very often. So I think that people need to sort of fix their minds as to what they consider to be a hit because a hit is not just something that made money or something that does streams because you can buy all of those.
00:30:12
Speaker
Right. And it's all pieces of a puzzle, right? Right. chart chart ah Chart positions matter only to a degree. Awards matter to a degree. Streams, sales, whatever.
00:30:23
Speaker
um They're all little pieces of the puzzle. at the At the end of the day, it's how does the song have longevity? You know, are we going to be talking about it in, you know, 10, 5 years? I mean, we've talked about this before with Espacito and other songs.
00:30:36
Speaker
and Well, and you know what's funny? I'm going to bring up a work experience because... i we had Rob Thomas had come by to play stuff from his new album and whatever. And he's incredible. And I love that man. And oh, my God, he's just, I love him.
00:30:51
Speaker
I've always loved him. um But somebody in the room had asked him about, because he lives in New York and was asking about, like you know are you able to sort of like freely move around? like Do people bother you like you know as you like kind of like go around the city?
00:31:03
Speaker
And he said something that i thought was really interesting. And he's like, my music is a lot more famous than I am. He's like, so you know a lot of my music more than you know me when you see me. You know who I am and you could probably sort of put it together, but you really won't think and I can sort of get away with it. He's like, but you know the music way more than you know me. And I feel like that is the right kind of famous to be.
00:31:24
Speaker
Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah. When he said that, I was like, that's actually a really good perspective. But I think that that's what it is. Totally. Because that's the thing that's interesting too. And maybe that's also maybe a kind of a, you know, ah a look into like, you know, male pop stars versus female pop stars, but because male pop stars, rock stars, whatever, the, the image is so much less important.
00:31:49
Speaker
Right. That, that like, he doesn't have to, you know, we when we think of Rob Thomas, like I can picture him in my head, like I know who he is, but, but ah It's not like you're like, oh, this this look, right? Or this particular whatever.
00:32:03
Speaker
Right. but that's so But when I think of – I think when a lot of people think of Rob Thomas, they think of Smooth with Santana. True. that is So no matter how you feel about Rob Thomas or whether or not he may or may not be relevant in the discussions of what happens as people get older in their careers – He has done something that will be so culturally relevant for the end of time.
00:32:23
Speaker
Whether or not you know his name, you will know that song and you will know his vocal on that song. and Right. it's just so You know what I mean? So it's like those, that's a hit. For me, that's a hit.
00:32:34
Speaker
So if you go back and you're just like, Old Town Road was a hit. Yeah, Old Town Road was a hit. It was an absolute streaming monster, but... i where how where How many people are going to listen to that all the time? like Is that going to be an an enduring pop song?
00:32:48
Speaker
right Maybe. Maybe. don't know. It doesn't seem to be currently. You know what is an enduring pop song that I don't even think charted on the Billboard Hot 100? Dancing on My Own by Robin.
00:33:00
Speaker
perfect example. ah that That song, i would argue, is one of the most influential pop songs that has been released in the last 20 years. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We hear its influence on all the main girls. at Taylor Swift is a great example yep of of you know songs that she has crafted that sound just like, I mean, We Can't Be Friends by Ariana Grande yep it is is you know a little sister of that song.
00:33:24
Speaker
Song didn't chart on the 100 Yet she will go and perform that song With Gracie Abrams at Lollapalooza And the entire crowd is singing along Everyone knows Dancing on My Own Yep yeah That's a hit That is a hit And for those out there thinking that it was a Callum Scott song Callum Scott did the cover of Dancing on My Own I don't know her We don't know her. I don't know her.
00:33:46
Speaker
I don't know. I'm so sorry to this man. charge of this Sorry to this man. I hope people don't sound ridiculous. and know um But the people here in in West Michigan think, know the Callum Scott version.
00:33:59
Speaker
so sorry for them. I love to inform them that this is a cover. And I was like, Robin. yeah i know i Again, no shade to him. He's a very talented man. like i don't want to you know I'm not trying to shit on him. But when it comes to that song, I'm sorry. There's only one version for me.
00:34:13
Speaker
Exactly. yeah But again, that's a perfect example of what a hit is. So it's like, if you're you can't sit here and be like, ah Post Malone has 5 billion streams on his new single, it's a hit.
00:34:24
Speaker
Sure. Sing it for me. Sure. it' Right. Right. And so, and I said this at work because we've been talking about this whole songs of the summer thing. And I think I mentioned it last time. And this song, Alex Warren, Ordinary.
00:34:37
Speaker
Right. This has come up many, many times. And a lot of people feel that this is one of the songs the summer. I could not tell you what he looks like. I have no idea what the song sounds like. I have never heard it in my life. And are like, you've heard it. And then they play it for me. And I'm like, this is voice audition pop music.
00:34:54
Speaker
Right. and And there's nothing wrong with it. And he's a very, I'm sorry to this man. I'm sure he's a lovely man and he's a great artist and he's got a great voice. Yep. I don't know if he wrote it. Maybe he did. Maybe he's a songwriter. It's wonderful. But i it's just, it's crazy to me to be like, this is a hit. And I'm like, I don't i don't know. I just don't know that it's that culturally significant.
00:35:13
Speaker
The Only Ordinary I Know is Ordinary Day by Vanessa Carlton. I was going to say The Only Ordinary I Know is No Ordinary Love by Sade. but There we go.
Artists' Evolving Musical Journeys
00:35:21
Speaker
Later covered by Jennifer Love Hewitt, for anybody listening. Oh! Wait, on which album? ah Oh, God, I can see the cover, but I don't know. Is it... Was the album Norwood Night Love?
00:35:31
Speaker
It might have been. she's Because she's had a few albums, right? Like, I think two or three. that's Because I remember, I think her first album was called Let's Go Bang. Yes. I don't think it was on that one.
00:35:42
Speaker
Let's go bang. Yeah. Yeah. yeah think so I don't even remember. i think it might have been the second album, but yeah. Jennifer loves you. Yeah. Yeah. she i I love the fact that she's had not one, not two, but like three plus albums. Yeah. and Yeah.
00:35:57
Speaker
Good for her. ah Yeah. Her music lives in the same window as like Stacey Uriko to me. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. They're in the same cinematic universe. Yeah. But I mean, you know, the the industry loves to go fast. And speaking of going fast. i i was goingnna I was going to try to segue, but you beat me. Go. And speaking going fast.
00:36:16
Speaker
Okay. Okay. I feel like I am known for my disdain for Demi Lovato. i and just Maybe it's a little strong. i have i have opinions about Demi Lovato, at least leading up to this point.
00:36:31
Speaker
my My main thing, and I won't i will shy away from this. my My main thing that I was a bit frustrated with her was, and maybe it's not necessarily her, maybe it's her record label. I don't know. Because again, i think more and more we're finding out that people are a little bit more enslaved to the industry than we are led to believe.
00:36:47
Speaker
But she was putting out for, I would say for at least a decade of her career was really capitalizing on the fact that she was a substance abuse victim. Yes. Now, and, and don't get me wrong.
00:36:58
Speaker
I love that people can use their art for, you know, to talk about their experiences and their pain. And I think that people should absolutely do that. My issue was, was that she would make music about it and then relapse and then make music about it and then relapse. And then would be this, and every time she would, would make music about it and kind of begin in recovery, she was this poster child for recovery. Right. and which again is great. And we all make mistakes and we all have a journey, but it was start starting to get to a point where I literally was sad. I was like,
00:37:31
Speaker
I was like, I've never seen someone go through this so many times and make money off of it. Like, that's the that's the part to me that I was like, this is where it's getting strange to me. Specifically when she did the Tell Me You Love Me album.
00:37:47
Speaker
She released two singles. And then she did a little Q&A on Twitter and was like, um she someone was asking if what the third single was going to be. And she was said, there's not going to be any more singles from the album, but don't you want to get new music anyway? Wink face.
00:38:00
Speaker
And i was like I was like, oh, that's kind of fun, like new music from from her. Let's see what what she's going to do. And then she surprise released that song Sober, like two weeks later, where she announced that she had relapsed.
00:38:12
Speaker
And to me there, that was the part where I was like, okay, this feels, this gave me an ick because you're being all playful online, being like, don't you want to hear new music?
00:38:25
Speaker
And then the song that you're releasing is an announcement that you relapsed. I don't know. It was a strange thing for me. I don't think that you're wrong. I think that what I would guess is that contracts are contracts and that things are have dates that they need to be fulfilled in. And I think that's how we end up with – albums like, ah what was it called? The one that I did the room with?
00:38:55
Speaker
Dancing with the Devil? Dancing in the Moon? Dancing? Oh, it was like yeah was someone it was a long ass title. Something about like, the art of me, dancing with devils. It was like one of the last super long titles.
00:39:06
Speaker
But I think that like that album and even like Whitney Houston's I Look to You, like I think that a lot of this is just people putting out things before they're ready. And I feel like she got herself in a cycle for a little while where it was like trying to get better, but then this, and I feel like you still have to make money, girl, and you still have to whatever. And whether you're,
00:39:29
Speaker
supporting a drug habit or a substance abuse habit. I have no idea because that's a very common story in the industry and I don't want to judge her on it. But, you know, if that's what it was, then, you know, you got to put out. That's why I think we get random like features with her every once in a while. And that was right being littered all over the place. And I'm like, okay, random things, random collaborations, but cool. Like I like to see you working.
00:39:49
Speaker
Yeah. And it just, every time I see her, it seems like there's a shedding of the skin happening, but the, what it sheds to has never stayed around long enough. I think for everybody to sort of latch on and be like, okay, we can rally behind you on this. Cause even like with the last, with the rock album.
00:40:08
Speaker
And I know that a lot of people like that and she sounded great and you know, there's some good tracks on there, but I don't, I think that that was for people who know Demi Lovato or know Cool for the Summer, you know, like that's a very, very big departure. I think Halsey has the same issue where it's just like, what is your identity? I don't really know. And it's it's kind of hard to sort of figure out, especially in how marketing and social media and everything and like the way things work today.
00:40:31
Speaker
Well, and i and I think, too, because like with artists like her and and the Swiftologist, I don't know if you follow the Swiftologist on TikTok. Oh, don't. He is a bit obnoxious for a lot of reasons. He's obviously a huge Taylor Swift fan, so basically Taylor Swift is God and yadda yadda yadda yadda. And so I don't, but the, he does have some really good takes.
00:40:53
Speaker
um And one thing, one take that he said about Demi, he also mentioned Miley in this, is that they're the type of artists that with every album that they come out with now is like, oh, all the music that I've done prior isn't me.
00:41:06
Speaker
Like this album's me. And they keep doing that with every, and they've done it for like three albums now. right And I think that that is a huge part of it because but I think that. that I think Miley's the same thing though.
00:41:18
Speaker
Like yeah there's a, there's a shedding of the skin with every one of these recent albums where it's like, she is sort of like, this is the thing that lived. This is the album that got me through my divorce. This is the album, you know, like it's, I think that there is that sort of thing to it. Yeah.
00:41:30
Speaker
But instead of being like honoring the fact that like this, like that was a part of me, this is also a part of me kind of like how Madonna, I mean, Madonna has, is, you know, obviously the queen of reinvention also happy birthday queen.
00:41:41
Speaker
It's recording this on the 16th happy birthday. Yeah. happy and ah Happy holiday to everyone that celebrates. right and um But Madonna, it's it's all a part of her. She's never really been one to be like, this isn't me. I think only once I've heard her say that. and that was shes she's definitely had i was going to say She's definitely had some moments where she doesn't like to acknowledge a lot of the old catalogs.
00:42:05
Speaker
Yeah, but she's but she's she she knows she's not like this with every album. Yeah, exactly. So anyway, I say all of this. I say all of this. I fucking love this new song.
00:42:19
Speaker
Love. It's fantastic. The video is great. Love. Love everything about it. Love it. Produced by Zone. Zone has been killing it. Worked with Kesha on her new album. I mean, has really like got a crazy amount of credits lately ah lately because he's on Rush for Troye Sivan on the Kesha stuff. the Talk Talk with Charlie XCX and Troye Sivan. He did a track with Laureen, who, if you are not aware,
00:42:41
Speaker
Go take a deep dive into Lorene's catalog. She's my, i think she's Norwegian, either Norwegian or Swedish. I don't remember. Something that. Yeah. Something a pop star. And I love her. But yeah, like killing it, killing it on production and writing zone.
00:42:55
Speaker
Yeah, I think he also did Wet Dream with Adam Lambert, which is a great dance track. I mean, like truly so good. And as I was listening to this song, i was like, not only is the production of this really great, like there's a lot of really great layers.
00:43:11
Speaker
We talked earlier in the episode about wanting musicality and some like musicianship putting back into electronic dance music remixes, yada, yada, yada. This gives me a lot of that back. Like I'm hearing all of these layers in the background and I'm like, this is what dance music is missing.
00:43:27
Speaker
The way that the song ends and the synths kind of burst out and just her vocal production is incredible. And Demi is an incredible singer. Incredible.
00:43:37
Speaker
incredible singer and I think that this song does really well is showcasing her voice without trying too hard I think that a lot of times you know with this whole conversation about vocalists is that we think that people need to just fucking wail and go balls to the wall every single song A lot of it's about control and and knowing how and when to use your voice. And this is a great example.
00:43:59
Speaker
And I also i want to give her credit because with all the disdain that I've given and shit that I've given to Demi over the years, I have to recognize and I will always recognize that she's one, very talented. And two, the fact that she can go from dance pop to rock to R&B, hip hop styled pop. like She's got the range. She really does.
00:44:21
Speaker
She really, really does. And so, um and I will also say, I've watched all of her documentaries because she's had a lot. She's had a lot. I have.
00:44:32
Speaker
I will say she seems like to she seems like a really great person. Like she has a really good spirit and I think that she has a really fun personality. for sure. Yeah. i'm I'm really excited for this for her and I hope that this is where the album is leading.
00:44:46
Speaker
Well, have you heard the other song that she teased? No. That played in a club? So speaking of, ah on what did you call them Underplays? Underplays? The Demi Lovato underplay? the the diamond ofva and She played another song.
00:44:59
Speaker
So the album is all dance pop. it's I believe the album is all produced by Zone is what she mentioned. Oh, work. um She played another song. I believe it's it's allegedly titled Kiss that, John Michael, you are going to love. oh I can't wait. It's so good. And she's like, I forget, that right before the chorus, the chorus is kind of a speak-talk chorus. It's like, I like to kiss.
00:45:23
Speaker
my lips, du like it's like that. um But leading up to it, she's like, your lips, my lips, take me to the chorus. And it's just, yeah, it's so good. I've listened to the clip a lot. Like i was like, okay, put this out.
00:45:39
Speaker
I love. Oh, I'm excited. good for you, Demi. Yes. I'm excited, Demi. And I want to apologize. I feel like when I spoke earlier, I'm going to keep it in the episode. i i know I probably sounded a little problematic. It's just I say all of this as a sober person who goes through and who you know who is it in a unique experience of substance use and things like that. So – you know i I have to give my credit where credit's due, and she's killing it. and i'm And she seems to be in a really, really, really great place. No, absolutely. And I think that this does feel different to me somehow from everything that I've seen from her. And as I will say, as somebody who has had substance abuse issues in their own life, that's why I think i
00:46:21
Speaker
Not that I understand, because I have no idea what she went through. But I mean, outside of what she's told us in her documentaries. But when I see what I see and like the patterns that it just speaks to me of what I like I said, what I think is just a cycle that she was stuck in. And it feels this feels different.
00:46:38
Speaker
There's something about this that feels different. She looks different. She seems more self-assured. Did you see the clip of her performing with the Jonas Brothers? I saw that she did. I watch it, but I saw that she did. my it's so good.
00:46:49
Speaker
She looked like she was having the best time. like They both look great together. They sounded fantastic. Love that. Yeah, I feel like she really turned a corner here on this one, and I'm um i'm excited for her, and I want the best for her.
00:47:01
Speaker
There's nothing better than seeing... a pop star on a rebound with a comeback that is clear where you can clearly tell that the energy is good.
00:47:11
Speaker
Right, right. yeah That's why I was so leery of the Whitney one. I was like, this is not, this is not gonna, mm-mm. Right, yeah. And no matter what else, Clive Davis, I will always blame you for that.
00:47:22
Speaker
Right, yeah. We look to you. Right.
Taylor Swift and the Anticipation of New Music
00:47:27
Speaker
ah But Zone also did ah Kylie Minogue's Someone For Me and he was on a Last Night I Fell In Love.
00:47:34
Speaker
Oh, love that. Yeah, love that. yeah I would honestly would love yeah i would love to hear more collabs yeah like that with with her. That would be great. um But I mean, speaking of comebacks, we got an announcement this week.
00:47:48
Speaker
We got an announcement. Taylor Swift is officially releasing a new studio album, 12th studio album. The Life of a Showgirl. We've seen the memes. We've seen all the social media recreations. I was really hoping it was going to be about Nomi Malone from Showgirls. Apparently it's not. So a little disappointed.
00:48:05
Speaker
a little disappointed, little disappointed, but I'm right. You know, whatever, but... You still put them in your music video, Taylor. exactly Exactly. Would be kind of iconic. That would be sick, actually. Yeah.
00:48:17
Speaker
So, ah yeah, they i allegedly she recorded a music video or two in l L.A. recently or or London somewhere. um And this is the return of Max Martin and Taylor Swift. and And you know what? I feel like there's a certain like heaviness of this now where i i I really hope that people aren't going to go into this album expecting 1989. Yeah.
00:48:38
Speaker
Right. Because I don't think like you're getting Max Martin, but you're also getting a very different Taylor Swift. Yes. Did you watch her podcast with with Travis? I didn't.
00:48:49
Speaker
Okay. So I only fast forwarded to the part where she announced the album. I did i was like, we can keep keep the football talk. I was like, love you guys, whatever. I don't care. Right. I mean, I've seen a lot of clips of different moments, but I have not watched the whole thing.
00:49:02
Speaker
So the part that I thought was really interesting was when she started talking about this. and i i love how Taylor's, how serious Taylor Swift takes her music. right I'm low key obsessed because I love one of my favorite things she's ever said. Speaking of 1989 is when she was ah announcing the album. She goes, this is my first officially documented pop album.
00:49:26
Speaker
One of my favorite things she has ever said. i was like, iconic. Anyway, um she said, i wanted to make an album that I was as proud of as I was with the Eros tour.
00:49:41
Speaker
And that's what she told to Max. and she said And she said that Max said, I feel like it's putting a lot of pressure on us. And she's like, but I believe in us that we can do this. So that was her statement about the album before it's out.
00:49:55
Speaker
There's no way there's only 12 tracks. There's no way. She said that there's only 12 tracks. She's announced four deluxe editions. None of them have a bonus track. Then what the fuck is deluxe about them?
00:50:07
Speaker
They've got like little trinkets and bonus covers. But shes she said that there's only 12 tracks. So we'll see. was we saw We saw how you know we got this, by um but but Max Martin and Shellback and her are the the three accredited producers on the album.
00:50:24
Speaker
Incredible. Girl, I'm ready for it. I'm ready. And and then ah Travis said that he's heard it and he said that it it's all bangers. He said, get ready to dance.
00:50:36
Speaker
So yeah, these are big words people like I don't know. ah We shall see. So today the streets prior to this announcement there were there were insiders quote unquote on Twitter who were teasing the return of Max Martin. They said there are two big Swedish producers coming back to Taylor Swift. So when I saw that I saw that about a month ago and and when I was like so you don't fucking edge me right. Don't tease me. Don't edge me.
00:51:01
Speaker
They're gonna be like surprise. It's actually Roxette and the buzz.
00:51:08
Speaker
They're it's actually Amanda. Remember her?
00:51:15
Speaker
That's And so um so I was like okay, they were right about that. And then the same insiders were saying that the album was very was inspired by like Rockset, ABBA, Disco. So I am expecting like bombastic pop.
00:51:32
Speaker
Right. Yeah. So we shall see. Did you see the track listing? I did. I'm very interested in the song Wood. Oh, I'm very interested in the song Elizabeth Taylor.
00:51:44
Speaker
the Literally. My favorite actress of all time. I'm very interested. Yeah. I can't wait. I'm... I'm excited. We, we shat on the Tortured Poets Department and I'm fine with that.
00:51:57
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. hi yeah I just, you know, and, and what I, always what she also said in this interview was that, you know, the last few albums that she did, uh, she, so they were very esoteric. And then Travis was like, I know what esoteric means. It's for a specific audience.
00:52:14
Speaker
Uh, that was just like, okay. Good boy Good boy. Good boy. Good boy. Yeah. but um But that's true. I mean, I think that she was kind of going through a phase of I'm trying to showcase the fact that I'm a serious musician and a serious songwriter. So here's all of this.
00:52:31
Speaker
I guess, but I don't feel like she had to do that. If that's if that was the intention, it didn't seem necessary to me. Because I don't think that anybody, again, I'm not a Taylor Swift fan by any means, but it's hard for anybody to sit back and be like, oh, well, she's not a serious musician. She's not a serious songwriter. Like, give me a break. What are we talking about?
00:52:50
Speaker
Like, right the girl writes hits. Like, I don't, like, you can't deny things about her. Right. Well, I think that people just, the you know, the pop, the music industry does not help itself when you have, you know, an artist credited alongside 12 writers on a song.
00:53:08
Speaker
And then, you know, give a, give a story about, so, I mean, that's not Taylor. It's stranger to me for, to, for people to have a problem with how many writers are on the track than whether or not the track is really working. Because if you have a problem with, I don't i don't even know, a Madonna song that has 19 writers on it and that bothers you, but...
00:53:32
Speaker
but The track with Taylor Swift and I Spice doesn't raise an eyebrow. Like that's, that's a weird collaboration. I'm sorry. It doesn't work. Like there's nothing about that on, on, was it one song, two songs that they did?
00:53:48
Speaker
They did one song. Karma? The remix of Karma. Right. It just didn't, and I don't, it added nothing. It was a very strange verse to me. Like I just don't, That to me raises more of an eyebrow than to be like, well, this song has 13 writers and I don't care. Good. Songwriters are getting credit and people are getting paid. I'm excited about that. Why aren't you? That's a weird thing. Right. Yeah. You know, so we have this, we have this weird, we have this weird fascination with music specifically that it needs to be always written by one person, performed by one person It needs to be so like introspective and we can't understand that like it can be completely made up. right It doesn't have to be about their life. it doesn't have to be you know It doesn't have to be a super sad song in order for it to be emotional. No, but you wouldn't do that with a movie.
00:54:37
Speaker
Why are you doing it right? It's just it's very, very strange to me. And it again, we could take this as many ways as we want, but it it's specifically women. 100%. 100%. And I think that's why Taylor feels upon herself to prove because she is in this industry with- Yeah.
00:54:56
Speaker
So all that to be said, I'm excited. I am very excited. And you know, like i'm i'm I've gotten to a point with her now, you know, again, because having to had to do with things with her with work and everything else and and knowing a little bit more about her paying more attention.
00:55:10
Speaker
While it's still a lot of the music isn't for me, I am now at a point with her where I am very interested to see what's going to happen next. And I love the imagery for the album. I love the photos that I've seen.
00:55:21
Speaker
i posted them on my Instagram yesterday. And eight she looks, and I said this, and truly believe it. I believe that when the blonde pop girls go brunette, we tend to get some of the best work.
00:55:32
Speaker
And seeing her in the dark short wigs and all of this other stuff, I'm like, something. And the Max Martin of it all, I was like, this is ah this is a potentially lethal combo for Miss Swift. So I really, really hope that this works out. Yeah.
00:55:45
Speaker
I mean, you could pick up any of the pop girls. Their dark-haired days are phenomenal. Yeah. i'm I'm so excited. i It's also just really admirable, the fact that she was able to create this album while on her Heirs tour. Yeah.
00:56:03
Speaker
But that's what I mean. like ah just herb that's what i it's like The idea of her trying to prove herself in anything is so crazy to me because I'm like, what more do you have to prove? What more could you do? like i don't right yeah You're a billionaire. You're one of the biggest pop stars in the world. like it's its Every album is a streaming monstrosity. like I don't know. like What are you talking about proving?
00:56:24
Speaker
Right. Yeah. Yeah. So I know, but yeah it is crazy, but she's, she is the biggest pop star in the world. And well i have girls at my job that are already wearing orange all the time.
00:56:35
Speaker
Right. You know, like the, the, the chokehold on, on, on her demographic is, is unlike anything I've ever seen before. Truly and we did have a conversation Where was i was that at work We were having a conversation About Cultural impact and like what Is Taylor's cultural impact Because we were talking also talking obviously about Beyonce and Madonna right um And you know and what And what I said was I was like you know I think it's interesting with Taylor i was like I think we've seen some cultural impact And I think that we see it a lot in like what is happening currently. like So like, for example, social media posts, when she did this announcement, this teaser, didn't even release the album cover and all the already everyone was doing like the gaussian blur background with like an orange glitter something or other.
00:57:22
Speaker
And I was like, we we started seeing that almost immediately. So I was like, it's very clear that people are interested in whatever she does and know that whatever she does will be ah attract attention. Well, it's interesting how how she just owns colors for things, apparently.
00:57:37
Speaker
Right. think that's interesting. She invented color. Right. um Unless you're Ellen Pompeo, and she's I don't see enough color. i right I don't see... I literally saw her face saying it.
00:57:50
Speaker
love that interview. i know. ah um But, ah you know, as far as like, other than commercially, like, because she's very clearly very a commercial monster, right? Like, do we know that this album is going to sell over a million copies. Oh, yeah. And like, love that.
00:58:08
Speaker
i I guess we're seeing it in certain girls, right? We we see her influence in Sabrina Carpenter and like Gracie Abrams, maybe Olivia Rodrigo. I don't know. i don't know. I guess we, i guess I don't really see her impact the way I see like Beyonce culturally or Madonna culturally. I mean, everyone's all past lead back to Madonna in my opinion, but i mean, don't know.
00:58:34
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, culturally, I feel like she's just there. Like she's just always present, but I don't like,
00:58:46
Speaker
There's a lot of songs that she's released that I think have done, again, numbers, but I don't know that they're going to be the most enduring when we talk about songs that stand on their own. Like when I think of her, I think of whatever, what's that Romeo and Juliet one? Love Story?
00:58:59
Speaker
that the name of it? That will absolutely, that's a hit. Will absolutely stand. You Belong With Me or You Belong To Me, whatever. That's a hit. Like it's a monster. yeah Shake It Off. Absolutely, because that song made its way to the sports arenas and they use it and all the, I heard it when I DJed for the Mets, the other DJ that was playing during the game was was using clips of that. And it's like that, to be that sort of omnipresent, that to me is cultural impact. Like, has she changed anything on that sort of level? Like, is it?
00:59:31
Speaker
Right. Like, I think that and all of her albums seem to be introspective, whereas I think certain artists will write things about the times. You know, like yeah Cowboy Carter. not and know This is not a comparison of Beyonce to Taylor Swift because I do not believe you can.
00:59:46
Speaker
i believe they do two completely different things and they are not comparable as artists. Both are the peak of their their craft on both sides. Yeah. the Cowboy Carter is about a specific part of American history, and it's like it's there's there's like stories and different things intertwined with her experiences, where I feel like a lot of Taylor's albums, like Adele, are very much like about the personal of what she's going through, which is why I think people endear to her.
01:00:15
Speaker
So I think it's almost... It's harder to have a cultural impact in that way because even when I think of Adele, like there are songs that are hits that are omnipresent that she will all always be around. But I don't know. When I sit down and I think of the cultural impact of Adele, what would I point to really outside of her just being an incredible vocalist, an unbelievable performer, amazing songwriter. like That's culture for sure, but...
01:00:46
Speaker
I don't know. I think it's just – what I'm getting at is that you can nothing can be judged up against one another. Right, yeah. you i think if like Because when I think of like like permeating and in impacting culture, when I think of like Madonna, how when she would release an album and would kind of be – I'm not saying the first, but like the first mainstream artist to really take a sound right and then everyone follows suit. Yes, right.
01:01:13
Speaker
I don't hear that necessarily from Taylor. In fact, like I don't think that she's that experimental with her music, which is fine. I'm not saying that she has to be. Right. buy it um But I feel like this is almost like a producer's game now versus where it was before. Because like when I listen to TTPD or even Midnight's, or at least the Jack Antonoff portion of Midnight's,
01:01:34
Speaker
I hear Jack Antonoff. I hear Lana Del Rey. i hear the 1975. I hear all of these things that Jack Antonoff has worked on. And I feel I'm getting I think that's what my issue was with Reese and Taylor was that I was getting too much of that and it didn't feel like enough Taylor.
01:01:52
Speaker
This maybe feels different. And I feel like that is part of Max Martin's ability as a producer. It's not just technical know-how. It's that I feel like he's able to get things out of artists that maybe yeah other producers cannot.
01:02:06
Speaker
I agree. Because I think we see that with Ariana, too. Yeah. I had made that super cut of all of the Max Martin 78 top 10 kids. And girl, let me tell you, there is very, very rare do I sit down and watch a six and a half minute video on Instagram, but I was like, bitch is slaying my life. It is so Literally, it's so good. It's so good.
01:02:24
Speaker
It's so fun to watch because like, ah so I posted it both on Instagram and TikTok and TikTok, it really took off. Like it's, it's, it's really took off. Kevin McHale reposted it hale um and it's it's so interesting to watch though because you lot of the comments people were saying like oh so this is like the millennial soundtrack and I'm like well yes life also but also it's like it from the 90s to now I mean his most recent top 10 hit was we can't be friends with Ariana Grande it's so crazy it's I'm like that's that is
01:03:01
Speaker
quite the chokehold you have on that's, that's basically 30 years of music that he is responsible for. and a lot of people, you know, try to be like, Oh, so he's responsible for this person's career, that person's career. But I think to your point is he helps bring out the best in that artist.
01:03:18
Speaker
That's what any good producer should do. Yeah. And so I think that he has, I think he helps artists step into a new, ah a new limelight, if you will, a new, a new area of the, yeah, he brings out the best of the best.
01:03:32
Speaker
But, and it's the ability to get, to do different things because like 1989 is so specifically very, very pop, pop, pop, pop. pop But like he's worked with Bon Jovi and done rock songs. Like, you know, he's worked with hip hop artists and done hip hop songs. Like it's, it's that versatility to be able to sort of step in. Whereas,
01:03:49
Speaker
Again, and I'm not shitting on Jack Antonoff because the man is super talented at everything that he does. but I feel like he pulls artists into his world. Right.
01:04:00
Speaker
Versus where Max Martin is like, let me give you the key to unlock your world. Right. Yeah. You know? And I think that that's, and there's two different, there's many different types of producers. And I think it's just like ah ah the the difference between the two. But that's why I think I'm very, very excited to see at this point where she is in her life, now where everything is so good and she's got the man and she's got the money and she's got the whatever and everything's going great for her.
01:04:25
Speaker
Let's hear what the celebratory, hopefully, you know, Max Martin album is going to sound like. I'm super excited. and Yeah. me I mean, I can't wait. Yeah. i what's the What's the date? but October 3rd.
01:04:36
Speaker
October 3rd, Mean Girls Day. Oh, boy. yep So i've got we've got a big day coming She's already coming for our national holidays.
01:04:46
Speaker
She's like, that's my day. Right, right. That's day. On October
Doja Cat's Artistic Versatility
01:04:49
Speaker
3rd, he released Life of a Showgirl. Exactly. Oh my God. i can't wait. So yeah, we've got some exciting stuff coming up. Also, before we get to songs we don't talk about enough, I do want to say how excited i am for the new Doja Cat single.
01:05:03
Speaker
Let me tell you, like everything I've been seeing on her set that with the with the blonde wig and the the zebra outfit, I was like the 80s rock of this is like sending me. Yeah, I was like, oh, this sounds great. yeah You know, it's one thing to do an 80s synth inspired song. And it's another to like really put your whole Doja Cat into it, if you will. and she is doing that. Like this song, Jealous Type, sounds so good from what I've heard so yeah far.
01:05:33
Speaker
Yeah. I can't wait. i cannot wait to hear. And it sounds like this whole album is going to be that type of vibe. Oh yeah, for sure. Based on the aesthetic that she's been doing. She did play, she did another underplay, love this new um i She did ah of another song, I forget what it was called, but she played it at a club.
01:05:51
Speaker
um And it, similar vibe. it It all sounds great. And I'm just like, Doja, you, another versatile artist that can just kind of shape and shift and do all the things.
01:06:02
Speaker
Yeah. Well, and that's why
Hidden Gems: Songs That Deserve More Attention
01:06:03
Speaker
I'm very, very curious to see where she's going to go. She's another one where i'm like, every time she shows up on my Instagram or anywhere, I'm just like, oh, that's Doja Cat. Yeah. And a great performer. Great. Like, great performer. That hair performance that she did, was that Coachella last year? Yeah, I think so. where that I mean, that I remember seeing the imagery of that and I was like, damn. Yeah. Like, go off, bitch. No, she pays the attention. I think we're going get such a varied career from her. she It's like it's sort of geant Janelle Monae-ish.
01:06:28
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm excited. Yeah. I'm excited. All right, John Michael, we've gotten to the point of the show. It's famous segment of the show. Songs we don't talk about enough where we love to talk about a deep cut. Maybe it's a bonus track remix.
01:06:41
Speaker
I, I, sorry, I definitely have three that I've been like weighing because I've been, okay I knew that we were going to do this and I was like, let me pay attention and see. I ended up finding a playlist that I made a very long time ago called songs you haven't thought about in a minute.
01:06:56
Speaker
Love that. And that was like, I made this like however many years ago. And i was I stumbled across it on my Spotify and I was like, oh, I bet you there's a lot of songs in here that if we haven't talked about enough. And I ended up finding like a whole bunch. So I'm like, I don't even know where to go with this. But um my song that we don't talk about enough is a deep dance cut from 2003. It's actually the rock project featuring Tina Arena. It's called Never Past Tense. Do you know the song?
01:07:19
Speaker
I do know this song. i love this song so much. And it's even for Tina Arena. Like, I don't know that it's like huge in her discography. I know it was a hit at the time or at least a moderate hit.
01:07:32
Speaker
But I know she's known for like a song called Chains and she's got some other songs that like maybe are bigger for her. But the rock project was DJ Ray Rock and this vocalist more more often than not, Tina Novak. But she did a version of this song after Tina Arena's version came out.
01:07:49
Speaker
And I have always loved this song. It's an absolutely sort of beautiful, lush, like just dance song. It's not super energetic, but it's just like a gorgeous, gorgeous chorus. And I think it was like, what is it? 97 on the Billboard Hot 100.
01:08:04
Speaker
So sort of charted, barely. Hey, was, be for that time, like yeah you know an artist that's not really getting promoted in America to chart on the Billboard Hot 100, that's huge.
01:08:14
Speaker
Right. Oh, wait. So I'm seeing here is ah The Rock Project's first album was released in early 2003. With the record label issues finally cleared up, Tina Novak appeared as the vocalist on all the tracks, even though the album version also include Tina Arena's vocals.
01:08:29
Speaker
So there must have been something that it went down. Interesting. Oh, this because of difficulty getting the song released doing ah due to Novak and Rock being signed to different record labels. That's the problem.
01:08:41
Speaker
Of course. So then Rayrock went to Tina Arena and got it done. Gotcha. Interesting. So I, one of the songs, like, like albums that I love to listen to specifically in the summertime is the Queer as Folk third season. Yes.
01:08:56
Speaker
and And it's like a continuously mixed DJ mix kind of like to kind of reference the Babylon club. And um track three is this song. It's ah the Tiesto remix.
01:09:07
Speaker
ah I love this song. I love it. It's such a beautiful vocal. It really is. yeah It's so good. It's something very atmospheric. about So I know the remix more than the original okay um because I listened to this this album quite a lot in the summertime.
01:09:22
Speaker
um But there's something so atmospheric and ethereal about it. It's so good. I wish more people were into it because it really like's ah I feel like that's a vocal that deserves more credit than it got for sure.
01:09:33
Speaker
Yeah, 100%. That's a great selection. yeah Wow. ah You know what I think? I think we should start making a songs we don't talk about enough playlists, too. We will. Yeah, I know. i need I need to go back to the past episodes and start pulling them out and start putting a playlist. Yeah, I have a list. playlist The poolside playlist was a hit. People were excited about it. I have i have like all of mine are written down, with all the ones that I've talked about, although it might from the old podcast to now.
01:09:56
Speaker
Okay, love that. yeah Okay. Okay, love. So my selection is when I started thinking about the Tuna Taylor album and thinking about big big bombastic pop and big choruses and things like that because that's what I love about Max Martin.
01:10:08
Speaker
um Even though this is not a Max Martin song, I started thinking about just like the random songs and then a song I was doing a Peloton Chlor class actually this morning and I thought this artist was coming on. It ended up not being this person but it made me think of them and I was thinking about the song We Are Golden by Mika. Ooh.
01:10:26
Speaker
And how big that chorus is in that song. what how He does that theatrical pop that's so crazy. It's so crazy and so good. And especially that that song should have been a seeing Talk about like talking about hits, right?
01:10:44
Speaker
To me, that song is all
Reflecting on Mika's Theatrical Pop Influence
01:10:45
Speaker
the makings of a sing-along, anthem, stadium rock pop song. right And it just never got huge the way his like earlier singles did.
01:10:55
Speaker
But to me, it's one of his best works. And especially like the way like the last... part the last chorus where like the like the whole choir kicks in and it's it's kind of giving queen in a way i was just gonna say that it's such a fun song i love that song so much mika doesn't get his flowers enough does not get his flowers enough no no and pops up like randomly like always randomly and stuff and like uh i relax take it easy is one of my favorite songs
01:11:26
Speaker
It's so good. and dare I say, i mean, I'm not saying he ah deserves all of the credit, but has was definitely a catalyst in launching Ariana Grande into her pop career.
01:11:38
Speaker
This is true. Because they did the pop version of popular. Right. ah Which, crazy enough So he did the song for one of his albums I believe it was a solo track Then they did the remix, like the single remix With Ariana Grande And that kind of launched her into her her pop career that we know her now But you know who did the single remix for that? Who? Was jason Jason Nevins Stop is it Of course, of course he did Is that not the most random ass thing in the world? okay but
01:12:09
Speaker
Another one that pops up in the most random places Yeah, for those of you for those that don't know who Jason Nevins is, Jason Nevins did a lot of dance remixes in like the early to the late 2000s.
01:12:20
Speaker
And he specifically, for a time period, had a signature sound that well kind of incorporated a lot of rock into his remixes. think Anastasia's Left Outside a Alone remix, Britney Spears' Early Morning remix.
01:12:34
Speaker
Yeah. yeah madonna nothing fails remixes i love stacy orico there's got to be more to life remixes oh god so this this particular song the you know their version of popular is not that style but look at us in our jason nevins bag i know look at that yeah yeah name another person talking about jason nevins today for real uh for real Oh, well, John Michael, as as always, always such a pleasure.
01:13:02
Speaker
Thanks for joining me. Well, also,
Concluding Thoughts and Farewell
01:13:04
Speaker
i didn't even say this. Welcome back from croit Croatia. Oh, thank you so much. It was absolutely excellent. We could talk about that another episode, but it was an incredible country, incredible people. It's beautiful. It's it's it's all the things that you would want it to be. And it's affordable and just, I love.
01:13:18
Speaker
you It looked like you had a magical experience. Yeah, yeah really, really incredible. Looks so good. Cool. Well, thanks everyone for listening and we will catch you on the next episode. Bye. Peace blessings.