Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Exploring the World of Neurodiverse Stories with Beyond 6 Seconds!
118 Plays8 months ago
In this episode, Satsunami is joined by host Carolyn of the Beyond 6 Seconds podcast that shares extraordinary stories from the neurodivergent community. From the struggles of podcasting to what it means to be a podcaster, you will not want to miss this one!
This podcast is a member of the PodPack Collective. The members are as follows:
Chatsunami
Casting Views
Nerdstalgic
2 Girls 1 Reusable Cup
Review it Yourself
Seismic Cinema
For further information, please follow the link: https://www.chatsunami.com/p/podpack-collective/
Check out all of our content here: https://linktr.ee/chatsunami
Website: chatsunami.com
Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/ChatsunamiPod
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chatsunami/
TikTok: tiktok.com/@chatsunami
Patrons:
Battle Toaster
Sonia
Greenshield95
Danny Brown
Aaron Huggett
Use my special link zen.ai/chatsunami and use chatsunami to save 30% off your first three months of Zencastr professional. #madeonzencastr
Stay safe, stay awesome and most importantly, stay hydrated!
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Chatsunami. Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Chatsunami. My name's Chatsunami and joining me today is none other than the one and only fantastic host of the Beyond Six Seconds podcast, Carolyn. Carolyn, welcome to Chatsunami.
00:00:33
Speaker
Hi, Satsunami. Thank you so much for inviting me on the show. I'm really excited to be here. No, it's a pleasure to have you on because I put out a kind of, I don't want to say a bat-sick, no. I was looking for people to interview and I know you'd
00:00:48
Speaker
come to me to say oh let's try and collab, let's do something
Carolyn's Podcast Journey
00:00:52
Speaker
together. But honestly I started listening to your podcast a while ago and I mean I said this to you off recording to say you do some absolutely fantastic work and I honestly can't wait to share what you actually do with the listeners at home today but yeah I have to admit I was engine quite a lot of your content today before this interview.
00:01:12
Speaker
Yeah, no, thank you so much. Thank you for listening and yeah, I really appreciate getting that feedback. I'm excited to talk about it and it's something I feel like is really important, so I'm glad that it resonates with you. Don't worry, we'll get into other stuff along the way, but let's get the podcast and bit out the way first. Sure, yeah.
00:01:28
Speaker
Yeah, I was kind of pissed and silly first. Of course, you're the host of the Beyond Six Seconds podcast, which is an absolutely fantastic idea and a fantastic podcast that tackles a wide range of neurodiversity stories. Is that right and sane? Yeah, that's a great summary of what we cover. Yeah, absolutely.
00:01:48
Speaker
curiosity because I was looking to see when you started the podcast and I have to say I always do this because I'm always curious about people coming on and whether or not they are podcasts where a product of the COVID lockdowns like myself or whether they happened after or before but I noticed that yours started before like way way before
00:02:11
Speaker
Mine was not a product of pandemic-related activities where people were in their home, although it was interesting how the show changed and evolved during that time. But I started in early 2018, and my podcast was actually in part the product of me kind of winding down one of my other hobbies that I loved, which was singing, and that was related to a job move that I had made.
00:02:35
Speaker
So in addition to podcasting, long before I was a podcaster, I was and technically still am a singer. And I have been in acapella groups. I first started in one in college many, many years ago. And then after graduation, I sang for many years in a group in New York City. So that was a lot of fun. It's a very small group and we performed all over the place. We some really
00:02:58
Speaker
tiny, tiny venues to really big venues. And it was a great creative outlet for me. And I remember that at one point, I think I actually discovered what podcasting was while I was in the a cappella group because one of the women that I was in the group with shared an episode of Malcolm Gladwell's revisionist history. He did an episode on Leonard Cohen and the song Hallelujah. And that was a song that we sang in the group. So she said, Hey, you should listen to this. It's like a whole history of the song and how it evolved. And like, it's kind of cool.
00:03:26
Speaker
I listened to that episode, I'm like, yeah, this is interesting, like an interesting format. And so I started listening to the other episodes on that show and then other podcasts. So I kind of got introduced to it while I was still in the group. And then I wound up leaving the group through a whole variety of circumstances. But a big one was that I started at a new company that was much further away from New York City. So it was harder for me to commute in for rehearsals and
00:03:50
Speaker
performances. So for a while there, I just didn't have any creative projects that were around like voice or singing or creation or anything like that. So I kind of got the idea in late 2018 saying, you know, maybe I could try this podcasting thing.
Podcast Evolution and Focus on Neurodiversity
00:04:04
Speaker
I already know about microphones a little bit and about audio recording from my singing days, because I used a lot of that equipment and do a lot of recording and website management throughout the years related to the singing group. So I
00:04:16
Speaker
said, you know, maybe I could figure out the rest. I could just teach myself the rest around podcasting. Let me try this. And I just started it as like a general interview show. So if you go way back to the first years of beyond six seconds, it's mainly just anyone I thought who had an interesting story who didn't necessarily go out there and share it on social media all the time. So
00:04:36
Speaker
Sometimes it was someone who was starting a new business or someone who had an interesting volunteer project or a really cool hobby they wanted to tell me about and the name beyond six seconds. It was actually the last part of the podcast that I decided on because I could not think of a name and I just got that six seconds.
00:04:53
Speaker
statistic from I think it was some statistic I read about recruiters only look at your resume for six seconds or less before they make a judgment on you. And again, I don't know how true that actually is. I don't think it's like a scientific study. It's just one of those stats that's out there. But I'm like, Oh, well, I could go beyond six seconds and give people more time to share their stories and really talk about what's important to them and show the impact that they're having that there are people like this all around you. And you don't even know what kind of amazing things people are doing.
00:05:19
Speaker
So that's where the name Beyond Six Seconds came from. So I did that for many years. And then the show continued to change. First at the probably the start of the pandemic was when there was sort of small adjustments. But that was kind of cool because at that point there were a lot of bigger name guests that I was admiring who were suddenly stuck at home. So in a way it was an opportunity to be like, oh, this person would probably be way too busy to even look at my message or make time for this. You know, maybe they'll actually make time to talk about their new book
00:05:45
Speaker
Maybe this stand-up comedian who's not out doing stand-up right now will have time to talk on my show. So that was kind of a cool pivot for a little while in the beginning days of the pandemic. And then things continued to evolve after that. But I actually wound up focusing on neurodiversity indirectly related to the pandemic because while the pandemic was going on, I wound up
00:06:04
Speaker
through a longer story that I can tell more if you want to. I wound up getting diagnosed with autism, late diagnosis in my mid 40s. That was a whole journey in itself. So in part, that's why I focus on neurodiversity and other neurodivergent people, just because I want to hear their stories too. And I want to know kind of where people came from, what their experiences are, what they're doing in their lives right now, what their big challenges have been. And that's just something I find interesting.
Podcast Growth and Challenges
00:06:29
Speaker
So that's what the show has been about for like the past two years or so.
00:06:31
Speaker
Now, it is really interesting to see how you were explaining, of course, that it has evolved because I think there's almost a misconception when people get into podcasting that they start a show and then they think, OK, this is what you have to talk about forever more. You know, they think there's no wiggle room, as it were, to evolve and change and focus on other things. But I have to admit, I was listening to a lot of your later stuff. Don't worry, I did skim through your older stuff.
00:06:59
Speaker
but I'm not one of those people that started on episode one. They're a long time ago. I know the absolute nightmare of it.
00:07:08
Speaker
But one of the things that I found really interesting about it and as I said I was flicking through a couple one of which was I can't remember the exact episode but it was about a woman that you were interviewing with autism and it was her relationship between herself and her religious beliefs and trying to find a place within the church and within life itself and I thought that was absolutely fascinating
00:07:32
Speaker
that there is a podcast out there that people are able to tell their stories and essentially they're really giving a voice. Thanks to you. Yeah, thank you. That episode, and this surprised me a little bit, but I put my episodes on YouTube because I record the video. I'm certainly not a YouTuber. I'm not
00:07:50
Speaker
a great video editor, but I put them on there because I know there are people who want to listen, but maybe they prefer to watch the people talking and watch the subtitles and the captions go by at the same time. Maybe it's just easier for them to consume that content that way instead of, you know, listening on a podcast app. And that particular episode, I think, is called An Autistic Christian Experience. It's with Mia Sy, I think.
00:08:11
Speaker
I remember that one because that's actually a pretty popular episode on YouTube. Like it's gotten some good comments, which is cool because I think, and I might just be because there's not a lot of discussions like that out there on the internet. I haven't really seen anything else of people talking about, in her case, her own religious and spiritual struggle with coming to terms with finding her place, as you said, within her church, within her faith and her journey through that. So I thought,
00:08:35
Speaker
was really interesting and not a perspective that I get to hear or read about a lot. So yeah, thank you for listening to that one. No problem at all. Genuinely, I was out for a walk today during my lunch break and I kind of thought, you know what, I can fit one more episode in. So I started listening to that one. There was one that you did an interview, I think, was it a non-verbal author as well recently? I've actually talked to a couple of non-speaking authors. Yeah, I was thinking of the recent one. Apologies.
00:09:02
Speaker
The recent one, I did talk to one in January. He was my youngest desk so far. He's 12 years old and he's amazing. He's already writing and sharing on mainly his Facebook page. He's got an Instagram page too. I love that. I've had a few non-speaking autistic guests and that's just been, I love that. It's easier than you might think to have a conversation with someone who's non-speaking on a podcast, which at first might seem like, how does that even work? But you just wind up doing a lot more preparation.
00:09:28
Speaker
And then when you come to record, you've kind of got everything figured out ahead of time. So in some ways, those can be easier recordings than some of the other interviews that we're kind of figuring out things on the fly sometimes. I have to say it is quite a challenge, especially when you start out podcasting and you have to think, okay, how am I going to structure this? How am I going to do this? And I assume with yourself, you're trying to think of how to structure the episodes of a writing scene and trying to
00:09:55
Speaker
Give your guests the perfect platform to be able to tell their story. Yeah, I do a lot of prep before the show. I know some podcasters don't, you know, it depends on the type of show that you have. Some people do a lot of research. I do a decent amount. I like to know at least a basic amount of what my guest is about and what they've done. And, you know, if they're a writer, then that's great because sometimes I can go and read some of their writing online and just kind of get ideas for things I might want to ask them. But
00:10:23
Speaker
Yeah, I have, I guess some standard questions. I usually will start out by asking, not always, but usually how someone found out that they're autistic, have ADHD, have dyslexia, kind of what was that like? And what was it like growing up? Cause some people grew up knowing that maybe say you have a learning disability or you're dyslexic, or if you were diagnosed with autism or ADHD at a very young age, you might know. And that experience might be different from someone who didn't find out any of those things until they were well out of school. I typically start with that too.
00:10:53
Speaker
And then it kind of varies from there in terms of what their interests are. I talk to a lot of people who advocate for other people with disabilities or other people who are neurodivergent. I think that's just because I meet a lot of my guests online. And usually that's why is because they're advocating and they're writing about this. So I think that's why I have a lot of advocates.
00:11:12
Speaker
on my show. And that means different things to different people. So whether it's they're writing about their own experiences, they're writing about other people's experiences in the community, or they're making videos, or sometimes they're hosting their own podcasts, or they're out in their communities going to meetings and writing books and like all these other things. So yeah, it's been really interesting to hear their stories.
00:11:33
Speaker
And out of curiosity, because this is something I find as if with a lot of indie podcasts especially, that it is quite difficult to get yourself well known out there. Although I have to say judging by the sheer amount of people that you've had in your show, you've had like such an amazing and just absolutely varied amount of guests on. But do you find it quite hard to promote your show or is it quite easy now that you've found your footing?
00:12:01
Speaker
I have to admit, I think promoting my show is my least favorite part of the whole podcasting experience. Sometimes I almost forget and maybe you can relate. You spend all this time like preparing for the podcast and recording it and editing and like getting everything ready and then, oh yeah, I got to put this out.
00:12:16
Speaker
I have to tell people that it's out. So yeah, the thing with promoting is that I feel like there's always something else that I could or should be doing because, you know, there's a million different social media platforms and have a newsletter and there's just so many different things that I could and should be doing to get the word out. But what I did is.
00:12:35
Speaker
I did automate some of my postings on social media, so I use one of those services that you can kind of pre-type everything up and it pushes it out at a certain date. For some of my social media platforms, others I'll write more spontaneously. And yeah, I just try to reuse as much content as I can because I only have so much time and brainpower and creativity to write new things about each episode. So if I make
00:13:00
Speaker
shareable social media graphics. I'll share them on social media, but I'll also put them in my newsletter and I might put them on my podcast website. If I write something, I'll repurpose that into the newsletter, social media posts, website, anything else that I write about the show. So I really try to reuse as much as possible just because you run out of time, you run out of resources sometimes.
00:13:23
Speaker
figure not everyone's going to see my Instagram post, even if they follow me. So maybe they'll catch me somewhere else on some other platform. So I don't think it gets repetitive. You never really know what people are seeing, especially if it's on an online social media platform. And do you think that's gotten worse over time with social media platforms? Because I have to say not that I was as active on places like Twitter or Instagram before Covid. I have to say I'm putting my hand up here. You can't see it, but I'm putting my hand up.
00:13:51
Speaker
that I began the podcast during the lockdowns and everything and it became my somewhat creative outlet and it was certainly a learning curve for me to learn everything, learn how to promote myself, learn how to put stuff out and everything but before the lockdowns versus after them it
00:14:09
Speaker
feels as if nowadays there is a somewhat shift in the difficulty of getting noticed with podcasts and content in general. So I'm just wondering, because I know you've been doing this longer, so would you say you've found that with yours?
00:14:25
Speaker
Yes, definitely. I think back in 2018 it was much easier to get attention for having a podcast. Probably just by nature if there were a few podcasters out there or not as many. I mean, today there's a lot more. I mean, not compared to say the number of blogs out there or the number of published books. That's like way, way more. Yeah, it's definitely harder with podcasting.
00:14:45
Speaker
and the social media platforms have really changed too. I remember when I started my Instagram account, I don't think I started in 2018, but I guess many years ago, like pre-pandemic, when I first joined, I would put a post up and immediately get 30 likes on it. I'm like, wow, this is so cool. And now today I put a post out and I think it got three likes.
00:15:03
Speaker
And that's just like, what am I doing? But at the same time, I try not to get too hung up on likes and things like that, because there are so many people lurking on your channels and who don't ever say anything, but they're reading your stuff. And I only find out about that months later when someone that I sort of maybe I'm
00:15:21
Speaker
connected to on LinkedIn or Instagram will say like, oh, yeah, I see your stuff all the time. You're really out there. I really like reading your posts. It's like I had no idea you were seeing any of this stuff because you've never liked or commented or anything. So that's what I think of when I start to get a little discouraged about my social media numbers is that there's many, many more people who are seeing my stuff. And unfortunately, I may just never really know who it is unless they say something.
00:15:46
Speaker
although you're absolutely right in that regard because the amount of channels whether it's podcasts or streamers, youtubers, they might have hundreds of thousands of followers or they might have a couple of thousand and you look at those numbers and you think wow that's amazing that's something to aspire to or you might see a podcast that has hundreds of episodes but the reality is they might not have as much engagement with
00:16:10
Speaker
the people that they are trying to target and vice versa. You might have the opposite with smaller channels that have an absolutely massive engagement rate but at the same time it doesn't look like it from the outset. So definitely numbers aren't the be all and end all and I do think you're completely right that is so discouraging for not only ourselves of course but for new indie podcasters as well who are coming into this.
00:16:36
Speaker
Yeah, it's tough. And I don't even look at my download numbers or whatever in my podcast host that often because that's another thing. I think a lot of podcasters really, I don't want to say got upset or got a little discouraged because I think it was Apple Podcasts changed the way that they did downloads. The app just stopped doing automatic downloads every time you open it. So a lot of people's numbers just dropped off one day and people like, what happened? I lost like half my numbers.
00:17:02
Speaker
Yeah, because they changed the way that they're measuring stuff now. So that's what happens. I did check because at the end of last year, I finally reached 100,000 downloads since 2018. So I was kind of waiting for that number, but it's a slow crawl. Like it was much, much faster in the beginning.
00:17:17
Speaker
That's why I met 100,000 now is because it was just so much easier in the beginning to get the word out. And probably podcast numbers were a little more loose back then. So I kind of had that early momentum. But yeah, it's hard to get that amount of numbers. But at the same time, I think it's Libsyn, which is one of the podcast hosts, more popular podcast hosts. They release numbers about sort of like if you have this many downloads per episode, you're in the middle 50 percent or you're the top 10 percent or 5 percent of all podcasts.
00:17:44
Speaker
So even if you get a hundred downloads per episode, it doesn't sound like a lot, but I think you're like slightly above average. That's actually a pretty solid number because there are so many podcasts out there that I think just aren't active. People put out a couple episodes and then they stop. So it's actually pretty good. And if you think about if there are really a hundred people listening to what you have to say in an episode or what you and your guests have to talk about in the offline world, that'd be pretty extraordinary. Like you're talking to a room
00:18:10
Speaker
of a hundred people or you're doing five talks in front of 20 people each or something, that's actually pretty good. So I try to think about it that way because otherwise you just get caught up on everybody getting like hundreds of thousands of views or whatever. I'm like, no, it still has impact. No, that is a perfect metaphor. That's the one that I always think of whenever you see maybe if you have 50 listens for an episode and you're like, well,
00:18:33
Speaker
doesn't seem a lot compared to some of the bigger podcasts but at the same time if there was 50 people in front of me first of all I'd be saying how did you get in the house but then second of all I would be saying well that's a lot of people here to listen to the podcast so you're completely right it is that almost sense of expectation and I could be wrong I can't
00:18:54
Speaker
remember where I heard this from, but I think someone said a lot of podcasters who begin and then they end their podcast. They usually do it around episode 8, I think. Yeah, I think it's like 7 or 8, yeah. It's quite an interesting number, I have to say, because it's not they're saying, oh, let's round it out to an even 10, or
00:19:14
Speaker
Oh, let's stop at five. It's a really weird, very specific, oh, this isn't working for me. I'm not going to push forward. And they kind of just give up at eight, which they must be really going through a rough time if they're ending at
Editing and Production Insights
00:19:28
Speaker
that number. I think people underestimate how much work podcasting is.
00:19:32
Speaker
Oh, yeah, I think on the surface, it doesn't, you know, it's like, well, I can just turn on microphone and I'll talk into it and record it and put it out, which I'm sure there are podcasters who do that. And that's, that's great. If that means that they do it versus not doing it, that's awesome. But it's a big learning curve. It's just a lot of effort. And I probably do much more work on it than I
00:19:49
Speaker
Like I probably could automate more processes and simplify more things that I'm doing. But even if I did half as much, sometimes the rest of your life kind of gets in the way of your podcast. You know, some people have other full-time jobs or other like family commitments or other hobbies or other things they have to do. So yeah. And then maybe you hit a creative block. That could be it too. You know, with the interviews, it's kind of easy for me because, you know, I find my guest and that's my inspiration is like, all right, now I know what I'm going to talk about. But maybe people with solo shows, if I had to think of something to talk about every week or every other week,
00:20:18
Speaker
I really try to put out solo episodes, but I don't do it too often because I never think of what to talk about. And people like those episodes, and I'm like, I really should do more. But I'm like, what I want to talk about. I'd really just talk to somebody else. Oh, no, I'm totally with you there because we put out solo episodes called Chatsu Shorts, and it's usually between five to 15 minutes. And it's relatively short, but beyond maybe the odd episodes or two of it that I've said,
00:20:45
Speaker
You know what, I'm gonna do this completely off the cuff. I might have bullet points but I'm not gonna prepare a script, I'll be fine. For 90% of them I have a script for it and you can definitely tell. I don't know if you feel like this sometimes where it
00:21:00
Speaker
feels different to the court when you're like this, you're bouncing off someone else, you're talking to them versus when you're on your own and you have to read off a script that you've wrote. Honestly, it's a skill in itself because you look at some people and you think, oh, they're just reading off a script and things. And then when you try it, you're like, how the heck do they do it?
00:21:20
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, kudos to people who can just sort of turn on the mic and they're recording software and just talk off the cuff and sound awesome because I'm not really one of those people. Maybe if I practiced a lot more, I could become one. But yeah, almost everything, even if I'm writing a script for myself, I use the software D script.
00:21:39
Speaker
or descript. It's like a video software. I'll use it for video editing and stuff, but it also lets you record directly into it and it will transcribe what you're talking about. So if I don't feel like writing something, typing it out, sometimes I'll just talk into that and then I can always clean it up all of my non sequiturs and the sentences and the thoughts that I don't finish. And then like that turns into a script that I almost always have some kind of script. That's just me. I think it's great to not have a script, but not quite there yet, at least with solo episodes.
00:22:08
Speaker
No, I'm with you there. I'm definitely with you there. It is one of those things, and going back to something you said earlier, it's a strange preconception that I think a lot of people have, especially about podcasting, but it can also apply to streamers, YouTubers, where a lot of people might think, oh, all you have to do is turn on the mic, turn on the camera. You do a goofy face or you say a goofy thing, and then all of a sudden you're going to wake up the next day, you're going to be rolling in
00:22:38
Speaker
money. You're going to be robbing it in people's faces. You're going to be like, oh, no autographs, please. You're walking down to the shops. But it's really not true. You're completely right. The amount of unseen work you have to do for a podcast
00:22:53
Speaker
again I'm totally with you. I edit the absolute heck out of my podcast episodes because I remember listening to my old episodes and one of my friends said, oh you should leave some of the breath noises or oh you should leave some of the arms and make it sound natural and I can barely listen to those episodes not because the content itself is necessarily that bad but mainly because I just think
00:23:19
Speaker
I could have done such a better job with that episode. You're right, there's just so much work between editing, promotion, everything in between, social media management. It's constantly juggling, isn't it? It is. There's a lot. And especially editing, that's something that a lot of people outsource if they can, like if they can afford it or if they have a friend or a spouse or
00:23:41
Speaker
someone else who is willing to do that for them. But I really like the editing process, but it takes a long time. So I fall into the same thing where I find myself usually wanting to cut out every um or every filler word or take out the breath noises, but then if you crop
00:23:57
Speaker
It's short in silences, but if you shorten it wrong, then the breath gets cut off. So it takes so long. And honestly, the thing that I would just be a perfectionist on every episode if I didn't just keep running out of time. And I think it's the time constraints that helped me. In the early days, I would go through the episodes multiple times and listen and re-edit. And now it's just like, no, Carolyn, you get one shot at this. So just go.
00:24:19
Speaker
That takes long enough, but it's like, okay, we're just going through one time and then you put the beginning and the end on. And if you need to record some other little bit, you put that in. Now I do have an editor who mainly does the sound cleanup and audio leveling. Again, probably things I could do, but it would take me much more time and it just happens to be worth it, the arrangement that I have. So yeah, I relate to that. I like it, but very time consuming.
00:24:42
Speaker
have to say, especially to the listeners at home, please be very grateful that neither of us are one of those podcasts that just say, you know what, we're just going to record it, we're not going to touch the audio, we're not going to do anything. If you've come across any of those podcasters that are like, I just say my thoughts and everything, I just put my episodes out without editing them, and it's like, if that works for them, sure, but if you've got lots of noises and things in between, don't be surprised when people are like, I don't know about
00:25:13
Speaker
Yeah, like I'd say, you know, a lot of the popular podcasts now are posted by celebrities, because I think during the pandemic, it's like a bunch of celebrities discovered podcasting, which kind of annoyed me, honestly, I've been here for years, people have been here way, way longer than me doing podcasting. And then all these celebrities were like, Hey, I found this new thing called podcasting, listen to my podcast. And then they, of course, get all the listeners, even they I think can't get away with
00:25:35
Speaker
totally unscripted random thoughts. Maybe there's a handful of celebrity podcasters who literally, their fans will tune in and listen to anything. But yeah, even the well-known names, people kind of get tired of things that aren't, you know, really put together or really bad sound quality or things like that.
00:25:53
Speaker
a few of them, especially during the pandemic, and I think it's what we were talking about earlier, where they basically were like, oh, how hard could it be? You just point a microphone in their face. You know, they've all got the same Shure microphone, which I'm like, one day, one day. You know, they've all got them, they're all pointing at each other being like, well, let's talk about this random thing of the day. And then a couple of episodes later, you just don't see them anymore.
00:26:23
Speaker
and they have staff doing it. It's not like it's just them in their house by themselves. Even during the pandemic, even remotely, they had people helping with that. So it's like, wow, if people who have actual support people to put their podcast on still think it's too much, that's something. Oh, that winds me up something awful when I see other indie podcasters who they do a lot of work in editing, promoting and things. And then you've got a celebrity podcast who
00:26:49
Speaker
basically and again I'm not undervaluing what some of the celebrity podcasts do but you see some of them where it's like they'll turn up all they have to do is speak into the microphone and then they can go away and do whatever they want whereas for indie podcasters you know you have to edit, record and basically do everything that a whole team that they've got does and it's just it's a
00:27:13
Speaker
complete disconnect when you see people say, oh well, look at this celebrity, they've got so many followers, they've got this and that. But you can't really compare yourself, can you? Yeah, and I do enjoy celebrity podcasts too, on certain ones. But that is one way to have a popular podcast is to already be popular and then start a podcast. Honestly, I think it works in that direction a lot of times. It's harder to go in the other direction to make your name as just a podcaster.
00:27:39
Speaker
I mean, it's the same when it comes to things like streaming as well or even when they're going from, as you said, they're going from a different platform because I know there's quite a few YouTubers that have done it whether or not they did it for the same reasons to say, fuck, how hard can it be?
00:27:54
Speaker
be and then half of them never really return to it and you're like oh no but yeah you're completely right it's that sense of they're already famous to begin with or they've got some kind of brand recognition that they're saying oh followers come follow me into this other place and yeah it's not a good look for new podcasters I have to say when they're coming into it compared to and I know I've asked this kind of in a similar way before so apologies but do you feel as if in terms of the grander podcast landscape that
00:28:24
Speaker
things have completely changed between 2018 versus nowadays.
00:28:42
Speaker
around
The Indie Podcast Community
00:28:43
Speaker
podcasting. Maybe that's because it's harder to promote. So there's this pressure of, well, I can't just put episodes out. I have to tell people. So I have to post on social media. But then, you know, if the algorithm changes or something happens on social, then I also have to have a newsletter so I can reach people that way.
00:29:01
Speaker
And so it's like more and more work kind of piles on for maybe the same or less attention. I don't know if it's totally changed, but it has definitely changed quite a bit. I have seen people using podcasts as a good companion to their businesses. So a lot of people who are like entrepreneurs, maybe they're professional coaches, like life coaches or business coaches, or they sell something, whether it's a product or a service.
00:29:26
Speaker
I think they will start a podcast and that actually can help them build a community. And I guess it could be like a lead magnet for them. They can get clients that way. I've known a couple people who use podcasting in that way. And I think that was not something that I was thinking about because I don't have my own business, but it is really interesting to see podcasts
00:29:45
Speaker
taking that role in someone's business as not the thing itself that makes the money, but the thing that brings in clients that shows your credibility, that makes people feel familiar with you. It's like, oh, I want to work with this person because I hear them talk about things that are important to them and they sound like they
00:30:02
Speaker
are very knowledgeable and they have great relationships with people on their show and then it brings people in that way. So that's kind of different. That's not really something I was seeing a lot back in 2018. Again, that's not really my niche, but it was interesting to see other people go that way and find success with podcasting that way.
00:30:19
Speaker
Yeah, but it's different now. So my favorite part of podcasting a lot of times is the community. And that's something that in my last episode of last year, I said I wanted to find more of personally as community with the guests that I interview. I try to stay in touch with a lot of them, at least on socials. And sometimes we have more close and more frequent connections with each other with other podcasters. Like that's been amazing. Some of my very best friends are podcasters and I met them through podcasting.
00:30:45
Speaker
Yeah, just being a part of this creative community is something that's meaningful to me and, again, was not something I was thinking about when I started out back in 2018. Now, I have to say the indie podcast and community especially has been absolutely fantastic and really so supportive, which I know you can probably hear the shock in my voice when they say that, to say, oh, they're so supportive, but
00:31:09
Speaker
compared to some of the others that I've seen over the years, especially in terms of streaming and even maybe the YouTuber community, which I'm not an expert on in particular for that area, but you see a lot of people who are trying to compete
00:31:24
Speaker
with one another they moan about oh I'm not getting the views or oh why is my video doing rubbish or you know creating this very negative atmosphere around their content around their channels and things whereas the indie podcasts and community bar maybe one or two outliers have been absolutely fantastic and so supportive I mean to be honest I
00:31:48
Speaker
I don't think we would have met each other as fast without the group that you and I are in, of course, and the amount of podcasters that are in that are just so lovely and so supportive. It's just great, I have to say.
00:32:03
Speaker
Yeah, and it is interesting because I even know podcasters who podcast on very similar themes as mine. So you think in some ways that that would be competition. And I guess in some ways it is. But the way I see it is there's plenty of topics for us all to cover. There's plenty of guests for us to interview. We'll never get to interview as many people as we ever want to because there's just so much to cover. It becomes more of a community instead of direct head to head competition. I don't know what other platforms are like if YouTube or streaming is more like
00:32:33
Speaker
competitive in the community. But yeah, I have found that the podcasting community is, for the most part, very open to collaboration and teaching and sharing with each other, at least the indie podcasters that I know. No, absolutely. Especially with the amount of groups and things that people gravitate towards, because I actually started, I don't know if you've seen this floating around Twitter, with the Modipat Collective.
00:32:56
Speaker
And I'm not going to lie, see when I first proposed that to a particular group of people, I thought, right, there's only going to be one or two people that might say, eh, it's all right, you know, and just say, OK, be gone, go hook out here. But it was surprising to see how receptive they all were to this. And as you said, it's just it's amazing to see how open people are to collaborations and things rather than, you know, they might say, oh, yeah, sure, sure. Either they don't
00:33:25
Speaker
or they've just got absolutely no interest. There seems to be a very low amount of nastiness in the community. Yeah, I've noticed that too. Especially I've been to a couple of in-person conferences over the years for podcasting and yeah, I've even seen the same thing in person. What I meet people that I do online is people are very supportive and are actually
00:33:46
Speaker
curious and want to learn more about what each other is doing, whether they're just interested in the topic of their podcast or they want to understand what works for them as they put their podcast together. Yeah, I found that as well. Yeah. Because I have to say that's one of the things that the UK is severely lacking in because I see all these amazing podcast conventions and things like that.
00:34:07
Speaker
that seem to sprout up in America, Canada, that side of the world and if there ever is one here then chances are it's down in London. As you can guess by my voice, I am nowhere near London. I am way, way up in Scotland so the chances of me going down for that is, you know, it's not far fetched.
00:34:28
Speaker
but it's not easy to go down, get there, interact with people. It doesn't seem as if it's a niche that's really been explored up here. So that's why I go around with a boombox being like, listen to my podcast. Yeah, there's been more and more even coming out of, well, you know, during the pandemic, there really wasn't anything, but even, you know, within the last year, I feel like there's more conferences or even just like smaller meetups popping up.
00:34:52
Speaker
around the United States here, like in smaller towns. There's even one for the New England states, which are the Northeastern states over here, like Massachusetts and Maine. That's a new group that's forming. So, yeah, I know, like almost everywhere all around the country. Not that I go to the majority of those, but I'm like, oh, that's kind of cool that it's for like other people who live in other places. It's good to have the option, though.
00:35:14
Speaker
Yeah, I hope you get more podcasts, even if it's not big conferences or conventions, but just like smaller groups. Hopefully that'll grow in other countries as well. I've really noticed it here within like the past year, so I don't know. That would be cool to have it in more places. It kind of feels weird that a lot of podcasters now are doing a lot more in-person recordings and stuff like that because I know the majority of them
00:35:37
Speaker
that you see in YouTube and things like that, you see them in front of the camera, talking to the friends on the other side of the room and such. But I mean, for me in particular, because I started it in 2020, well, towards the tail end of 2020, the majority of my episodes were done over Zincaster. So they've all been relatively remote and I never really got to do an impersonal one until I want to say either 2022 or 2020.
00:36:07
Speaker
the read, you know, it was like really late until my friend was like, oh, do you want to meet up and try and do an episode together? And I was like, yeah, sure. And, you know, we did it and it was cool, but it just, it always feels quite strange having to shift the dynamic, you know. And I wonder if a lot of other podcasters who did start in the pandemic years
00:36:28
Speaker
think that because I have to say I don't know if you've heard that episode and if you have I apologize in advance but my friend Martin McAllister now we did a episode where we went to ACME Comic Con and we interviewed people in person. I don't know if you've interviewed people in person spontaneously but it is absolutely terrifying.
00:36:48
Speaker
I did an episode like that once and it was at a convention and it was many years ago. So yeah. And I only asked them one question. So it was feels like a montage of things. And that was still like a little nerve wracking. It's not what I'm used to. Because I have to say, I think I had a set amount of questions and I was like, okay, all you have to do is go up and say, who are you? What you're doing today? And what do you enjoy about Comic Con? That's it. I'm going to be confident. And then you listen back to it. And it just sounds like I'm going, what do you like about Comic Con?
00:37:16
Speaker
It's like, please answer so I can go home. And I was like, oh my goodness. I think a lot of the editing that I do, even with the episodes that I do remotely, a lot of the editing is editing me. I wrote this question down. Why did I decide I was going to like go off on some tangent and try to transition? And then it's like, oh, I didn't finish that sentence at all. It's like, let me just cut this part out.
00:37:39
Speaker
and then make it sound like I could actually read the question. Usually my guests are actually pretty good in terms of, you know, I don't have to edit them heavily because of the way that they are sharing compared to me. It's like, yeah. Or maybe I'm just more picky because I'm used to what I sound like. I'm like, I don't think that's what I'm supposed to sound like.
00:37:58
Speaker
I'm the absolute same, because whenever I get a very great and well-spoken guess yourself encoded, of course, I'm not just saying that because you hear of it. All I think is, oh great, I wouldn't have to edit them so much in the final cut. And then I listen back to my side of it and I'm like, you on the other hand, you're getting cut down to a couple of minutes because the amount of
00:38:19
Speaker
cut it. Honestly you should see the amount that I just remove out of some episodes because I just think okay this isn't flowing well or this isn't and I try not to like I genuinely don't really cut any part of the conversation out unless it's as she said it's like me going off in a tangent or rambling and I'm like okay this isn't fitting in but I try to keep it intact and I know whenever my guests are on and usually they do a fantastic job and then as I said you know you listen back to yourself and I don't know
00:38:48
Speaker
I feel as if you do learn a couple of things over the years, at least I hope so anyway.
Audio and Personal Experiences
00:38:54
Speaker
I mean, I have, I know a lot of people don't like to listen to themselves on recording and they don't like to hear the sound of their own voice, which actually kind of makes me sad to hear that. I'm just used to it. I think one from years of singing and having to listen to myself and then doing my own editing where I'm always listening to myself. And I've kind of figured out how to get my levels set so that I'm like, okay, what I sound like in my head is pretty close to what I think I sound like coming out of the speakers here.
00:39:17
Speaker
But yeah, it's different. One thing I've noticed is it's allergy season here in the United States. So I'll listen to myself. I'm like, why am I congested? Why do I sound? And I don't remember feeling like that during the recording. I'm like, oh, well, I'm just going to be sound congested for this question, I guess. So yeah, I learned that. Sometimes I listen and I'll hear my accent, my upstate-ish New York accent. I'm not normally aware that I have an accent. But if I listen to myself, I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, it's kind of there. And I'm congested. But oh, well, whatever.
00:39:46
Speaker
Oh no, I'm the same. Scotland, as you may know, is a very, very cold place and I am super prone to getting cold at the worst possible times. So the amount of episodes where I think, oh God, I haven't recorded anything for next week and I'm going to have to record something or nothing's getting put out and then you sound like you're pinching your nose through the entire thing and I'm like, no, I swear I'm fine.
00:40:11
Speaker
It's not that bad. But you can definitely tell in some episodes, you're like, oh, I totally know what you mean. And especially with what you were saying about the voice thing where a lot of people listen to their voice and they think, oh, I don't know about that. Because I was definitely in that camp when it started. But I think I've just developed whatever the vocal equivalent of Stockholm Syndrome is, where I've just heard my voice so many times. I'm like, you know what? It could be worse.
00:40:41
Speaker
Yeah. And I like hearing all kinds of people's voices on podcasting because, you know, it's not radio. It's not like whereas with radio, you had to have the quote unquote radio voice. And it's like that same kind of voice that every morning show DJ has. But, you know, with podcasting, you can do that, but you don't have to. You can just be a regular person talking in your own regular way that you're used to talking.
00:41:02
Speaker
I mean, that is the beauty of podcasts, though, the fact that you can do it in your own way. But as you said, you don't have to be entirely formal. It can be a casual conversation like what we are having just now, or it can be maybe informative if you're doing a more serious episode or if you're doing something about a particular topic and you need to get the facts across or you want to make it a wee bit more jovial and funny, you'll bring a bit more lightheartedness to it.
00:41:31
Speaker
There's just so many genres, but I'm actually quite curious because this is a question I've been holding onto throughout the episodes. But beyond, of course, your own podcast, what other types of podcasts do you like listening to? Sorry to put you on the spot there as well.
00:41:47
Speaker
I definitely need to spend more time listening to podcasts, but I guess over, I'm really a whole variety of different kinds of podcasts. So sometimes I'll listen to other people's, they have like a neurodiversity related podcast. I'll listen to those. I listen to my friends' podcasts a lot. So I have one friend who hosted a show with her other friend and this podcast, they're actually wrapping it up because they're going to start a new podcast later this year. This is kind of funny, but it's
00:42:14
Speaker
like a comedy podcast but it was leading up to like the new Willy Wonka movie that came out a couple months ago and they started it like years ago as it was all about that and their anticipation and all the things they were thinking about and it turned into this sort of fan club movement thing like they found a fan base that is actually kind of an amazing case study and you know they just started it for fun and it was something that they were strangely obsessed with they'd say strangely themselves I just need to figure out like what's going on with the
00:42:40
Speaker
And, you know, they had people writing into them, sending them fan art. I think they were writing fan fiction about some of the characters they made up. It turned into this whole like mini universe, which as a podcaster is amazing, you know, that you have your own devoted following, which is pretty cool. But now that the movie's out, they're winding that down and they're going to start their second show. And now they have all this experience working together and coming up with really creative plots and topics and storylines. I'm excited for that one. That one's still under development.
00:43:06
Speaker
But the name of their show was Wonka Watch, in case there's any Willy Wonka fans listening. Well, actually, if you are a Willy Wonka fan, you may already know about that podcast because they seem to have found everybody and brought them into their fan base. So I would listen to that, even though, honestly, I don't have any particular interest in the movie or the Charlie and the Chocolate Factory story or property. I saw the old movie, but just hearing their interactions
00:43:29
Speaker
because they're great together. They're funny, like organically funny. It's not forced. It's not scripted. They prepare for what they're going to talk about. And then they just have such a great chemistry together. So it's stuff like that. It's just really fun to listen to. So that's another example of things I listened to. Well, I was going to say, speaking of Wally Wonka, that's quite a sore topic for the people of Scotland recently. I take it you've seen that in the news.
00:43:52
Speaker
I have not been following up on my Willy Wonka news, unfortunately. Long story short, and I can't believe I'm the person to reveal this to you, so apologies. There was an experience, and I'm using that word variously, where somebody conned a lot of parents out of money for a Willy Wonka experience, but he generated the whole thing using AI. Oh, okay. I did hear about this. Oh, I didn't know that was in Scotland. That was Glasgow, yeah.
00:44:21
Speaker
I had no idea where it was. I just saw it on Twitter, of all places. Oh my gosh. That was us.
00:44:27
Speaker
Wow. That was something else. Those pictures were pretty... Yeah. The thing that got me the most was I saw that Glasgow was trending and I thought, you know what? It's time for Glasgow to be in the spotlight because Edinburgh is one of those cities that looks amazing on the side of a shortbread tin and everything. So you know what, Glasgow? What have you got for us today? And then you read up on it and I was like, surely this is just going to blow over. It'll be fine.
00:44:57
Speaker
and people are making memes and horror films about. I don't know if you've found this when you're trying to promote your podcast on Twitter and you see the trending tags and you think, okay, what one of these tags can I jump onto to promote myself and everything? And then you just see things like that and you're like, where do I even begin with?
Social Media and Engagement Challenges
00:45:20
Speaker
Yeah, I gave up with the trending topics because I figured by the time I see them, there's so much out there that no one's going to see my hashtag tweet on that. And I don't know. I feel like a lot of those are just trending for you. So like things I see as trending may not be trending for a lot of other people. I don't know.
00:45:35
Speaker
I never figured that out. I would see it kind of show up in the trending topics, and then I never did a great job hopping on to things like that. I know, because it always comes up like, oh, trending for you, and then you click it, and that's just the most random collection of tweets that have nothing to do with the actual topic. And you're like, do I want to be out there with this particular group, or? It's a minefield, is what I'm saying. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I love Twitter, of course.
00:46:04
Speaker
I'm looking at my Red Panda lawyer in the corner and he's advising me that for legal reasons that is indeed a joke. Oh my goodness, that is the worst one, I think. Whether you love it or hate it now, it is definitely changed. There's a lot more bots now, because I used to joke about that quite a lot in the very beginning of the podcast.
00:46:30
Speaker
All the podcast bots are coming, and even when we did a Terminator one, we joked about that, that, oh, we're fighting against the podcast bots. But honestly, nowadays, it's not a joke. It's actually a very real reality. Well, even on my YouTube channel, which is very, very small, I wound up putting comments into moderation, not because I was getting mean comments, but because as soon as I published, I would get all these immediate spam bot comments that I would have to go delete.
00:46:59
Speaker
I don't know, I guess other creators don't deal with that. I'm like, my channel's so small, like why are bots even bothering to comment on this? So I turned them off and that stopped it. It's very odd. Yeah, I get the old one or two I have to say in YouTube, because my YouTube definitely is nowhere near as big as any of my other channels, so I don't really invest as much time. I think I've just set up Headliner to automatically post my episodes there. And I'll just be like, you know what? If people find the podcast there, absolutely fantastic.
00:47:28
Speaker
Ah well but yeah the amount of times I've got a notification I've been really excited and I go oh I can't wait to see what I don't know this person said about it and then it's like oh would you like a promo? Watch my video about Fortnite and I'm like yep you're not a real person.
00:47:43
Speaker
Oh, yeah. I know, it's disappointing. It's like, oh, I thought you were real. It's like the anti-Pinocchio, you don't want them to be. You're just like, come on, get out of here. Yeah, it's definitely a problem. Nah, I don't think it's getting any better, which is a shame because there's a lot of amazing creators out there and amazing content
00:48:02
Speaker
it's just a shame that we have to fight through all of these bots and especially with followers. Do you get this as well over on Twitter? What do you think you've got? A new follower and it's either a bot that's for some weird reason very political or very rude and I'm using that the nicest way possible.
00:48:20
Speaker
Oh, yeah, I do get those. I get those on Instagram too. And honestly, I just remove the connection. If I can kind of obviously tell like, all right, this account really, I don't know if it's a real person. This person is really not interested in my content. Then I get paranoid. I'm like, why are they connected to me? I don't know that way. So a lot of times I'll remove that follower if I don't think it's a real person. But yeah, it's weird.
00:48:39
Speaker
as I have to say, the amount of times that I've seen certain ones pop up in mind and they're like, oh, I believe in this, I believe in that, oh, look at my strong opinion. And I'm looking at them, then looking at my channel with the big red panda hiding behind the mic, and then I look back at them and I'm like, and what planet did you think these two
00:48:58
Speaker
it. I don't know. Yeah, I know they're bots 90% of the time but the amount of them that come through and you're just like, come on, step up your game. If it was like a red panda bot then I would be a bit more conflicted but there's no effort. Two out of ten, see me after class or rather don't see me after class.
00:49:16
Speaker
Yeah, it's like, does this actually work? I'm like, I don't know, maybe it's stale. If it's a bot, somebody clicks on it. I don't know. But it's like, why does this really ever work? I mean, to be honest, I'm still waiting for the Netflix documentary or someone who actually took one of those promo bots up on the road for, quote unquote, organic followers and went, oh, yeah, I can promote your show for a ridiculous amount of money, but I'll give you organic followers in return. I wonder if anybody has done that.
00:49:43
Speaker
I mean, probably, but yeah, I don't know anyone. I mean, there was one horror story I heard, and this could be totally made up, so take it with a bit just a
Balancing Podcasting with Life
00:49:52
Speaker
little bit. I'm pretty sure there was somebody who did it, or the rumour was that they did it, but because they stopped paying the people for the reviews and things, they just completely review bombed their show with one star just because they wouldn't pay. I can see that happening.
00:50:07
Speaker
Yeah, I heard that too. I could totally see that happening. And that's scary because it's not that easy to remove one-star reviews. Unless you can prove that they're really fake, then they get removed. But it's like a whole thing. Then you have to like go and make your case. Oh, it's a faff. Yeah. But speaking of which, just outside of podcasting, what kind of things do you do to relax and wind? Or what do you focus on outside of the world of podcasting?
00:50:32
Speaker
really like relaxing, but I work full time in a completely different field that's not related to the podcast, but I'm an instructional designer, which means that I design training for employees at a large corporation over here. So again, it's, you know, cool because it's like a blend of creative work and teamwork and feels like it has a nice purpose in terms of helping people do their jobs better at work. So that's something that I enjoy doing.
00:50:55
Speaker
I work with tons of other people to get information and put training together. I started designing training online with, there's like all these e-learning design tools that you can use. So I'm starting to learn those and then putting training out. So that's pretty cool. That's like my full-time gig over here. And then yeah, other stuff.
00:51:12
Speaker
You know, I like to travel. I don't do it as much as I would want to or like to, but it's been a lot of fun. Mostly it's travel within the US lately. We like going to Arizona to kind of relax in the desert climate is kind of nice and big contrast to where I am here in New Jersey, which is much more.
00:51:28
Speaker
forests and rain and we're not close to the shore but we're not that far from the ocean over here so yeah very different terrain different climate and yeah i guess that's most of what i do the podcast is mainly like my fun thing as much work as it is that is my fun creative outlet it's funny i didn't realize when i started podcasting how much writing was involved
00:51:47
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Because you're writing show notes and you're writing posts and all that. But fortunately, I enjoy that as well. So it's been kind of cool. I like hanging out with my friends. A lot of times that happens over Zoom because now I have friends who are like located all over the country. We don't always get to hang out in person very often, but we do try to talk and keep in touch on a regular basis. So yeah, I guess that's kind of it.
00:52:07
Speaker
No, I have to say it's amazing how podcasting almost, I don't want to say golfs your life, but it takes a huge part of it once you get going, doesn't it? It does. Because the amount of times that I have to say when I started out and I was like, OK, this is a side project, I'm going to focus on streaming and everything. And then, of course, when things started to open up again, I really moved away a little bit from streaming. I was like, OK, I'm going to focus on that as much. Maybe I'll do a little bit more
00:52:37
Speaker
podcasting. And now when I meet up with friends, I am essentially that guy with a podcast. I'm just like, yeah, do you want to listen to my podcast? And I'm like, for goodness sakes, that's who I've listened to your podcast. But at the same time, it's amazing how much podcasting as a whole actually brings you closer to people. And it's something that you mentioned earlier, the episodes, but the fact that you can
00:53:02
Speaker
Pretty much just go on Twitter or any other social media, you can find like-minded people, you can invite them on and of course talk to them through the podcast and such and then you get all these different conversations, you get to meet a whole different variety of people
00:53:20
Speaker
I have to say, I don't know about you, but I totally did not expect when I started out in 2020 that I would be talking to so many people from all over the world. I mean, I've spoke to streamers, musicians, of course podcasters,
00:53:35
Speaker
players as well, cosplayers, just so many. And again, even within that, there's a whole different wealth of people. You've got variety podcasts, film podcasts, true crime podcasts, which is not a topic that I have to say. I would be talking to people within that community, but I've met so many lovely ones and I guess turning it back on you, and apologies for turning it back on you, but did you expect the same when you started out the podcast or did you know where you were going with it?
00:54:02
Speaker
I don't think I expected to find the community. I don't even know if I was aware how big the community was in terms of indie podcasters. I was part of a small, I guess it was a Slack channel at that time, a very small group of other women indie podcasters that we just shared episodes and chatted in things. But that was a small early group, but that was the first community that I belonged to. But I had no idea that it would extend beyond that. And yeah, I mean, certainly
00:54:29
Speaker
When I started off, I wasn't focused on neurodiversity. So now that I'm talking about neurodiversity and neurodivergence, there's a huge community around that of other content creators talking about it, other content creators talking about specific types of neurodiversity. There's several I've called influencers or content creators on social media who have Tourette syndrome and talk
00:54:50
Speaker
specifically about that. And there are others who talk about, say, dyspraxia or others who talk about, you know, autism, obviously, or ADHD. There's those specific communities. And then there's a wider community of people who just talk about multiple neurotypes and the broader range of neurodiversity.
00:55:05
Speaker
It's a little overwhelming at times, honestly, because I don't always feel like I fit in exactly in there because I'm not doing this. I'm not like a full time podcaster slash neurodiversity advocate, which I think a lot of people who do this have businesses that are devoted to it or their speakers and they talk about it. That's part of their business or part of something that they do on a regular basis. But for me, it's a weird, especially where I am now, it's a very weird combination because I obviously I host.
00:55:31
Speaker
a show about neurodivergence. I talk about my own autism on the show here and there. But in my day to day life, a lot of people I know in my offline world don't really know that I'm autistic. It's not like a secret that I'm keeping from them. And obviously, if they listen to my podcast, they would know.
00:55:47
Speaker
Or maybe they do know, maybe they know and they're like, whatever. But it's a weird duality of having this podcast where I'm very talking about it and talking about these issues and sharing this advocacy. And then I kind of like go to other parts of my life and it's not really something that I talk about as much.
00:56:02
Speaker
a
Advocacy and Purpose in Podcasting
00:56:03
Speaker
really odd place to be at this point. So I'm not really sure what's going to happen with that. I'm sure something will change in terms of how those two parts of my life get integrated with each other. But for now, there's still at least some separation. And I don't know, it's a strange feeling. I'm not sure even how to resolve it at this point.
00:56:19
Speaker
It is quite interesting what you were saying there about the fact that there's a lot of neurodiversity podcasts that either they focus on one particular topic or they focus on the whole range of it and I suppose as well even extending it in the wider podcast community and especially with the neurodivergent community and podcasting that everybody's trying to find their particular place within the community.
00:56:46
Speaker
whether they are going to be sticking to, as she said, whether they're going to stick to one topic or whether they're going to branch out into different ones. And I just want to say, once again, not just saying that because you're here and you paid me the ten dollars on PayPal. Definitely not saying that.
00:57:01
Speaker
But you do an absolutely fantastic job of not only highlighting different neural diversity stories, but also to, as I said at the very beginning, and apologies, I've come full circle to say that you've essentially given a
00:57:17
Speaker
whole community of people in these particular areas a voice as well and I honestly thought that was just absolutely fantastic to see because it's something that I struggle with it as well for different reasons but I feel as if
00:57:32
Speaker
when you get into podcasting, the first step is finding your feet, finding your niche, finding your topic to kind of follow. And then once you've got that, you have to find your community and everything. And once you've found a community of like-minded people or people who are going to support you, after that, then you have to think, what am I trying to achieve with it? How am I going to use this podcast and so forth? And it is just absolutely fantastic to see someone like yourself who has
00:58:01
Speaker
rooted themselves within the neurodiverse community, within the indie podcasts here in particular and just a absolutely fantastic job of it because I feel as if, and I don't know if you feel the same way about this, that there are a lot of new podcasters that kind of come into things and
00:58:18
Speaker
that's really the main thing they struggle with. Are they really speaking to anyone? If that makes sense, going back to again something you said earlier, do you know if you are speaking to anyone or are you just talking into the void? It is really difficult for us especially because celebrities and things, they're getting the constant flow of
00:58:39
Speaker
opinions and comments and things like that. But it's really hard to know, especially with us, that are people listening. And personally for me, and I know I haven't said it before, because I have to say I did listen to your podcast in the past and it's a bad thing that I have to admit I've always done when I listen to people's podcasts and I go, that was a great podcast, but then I forget to comment on it or to say to them outright. But I genuinely do think you're doing an absolutely fantastic job with Beyond Six Seconds.
00:59:08
Speaker
Thank you. I really appreciate that. And yeah, I'll have to play back this part of the show when I'm feeling discouraged. Yeah. I really appreciate hearing that. And yeah, you're right. That's the thing about podcasting is that there are people listening to what you have to say. And then because of the way podcasting set up, it's not easy to like leave a comment or, or kind of tell them that like, Hey, this is really cool. I liked it. So.
00:59:30
Speaker
I guess the first point is there are people listening to your show, our shows, who really enjoy it and it really changes their life and we may never know because they just don't have the opportunity to tell us. Or two, it makes the reach outs when I hear from people who listen, who do sit down and take the time to write me long emails about why a particular episode resonated with them. It makes that even more valuable and special because it does take that extra effort.
00:59:53
Speaker
Yeah, thank you so much. Thank you for listening and I really appreciate you being just so supportive and understanding what I'm trying to do. So yeah, it means a lot. So thank you. Because I have to say, I don't think the listeners in particular might have the same perspective as us, for example. And what I mean by that is more that they don't get to peek behind the curtain this much. So
01:00:15
Speaker
they might not realise that this episode has had hours of research or work or whatever put into it. They are just going to listen to that at face value, maybe when they're driving, maybe when they're doing chores around the house or whatever, and that's perfectly fine. But to them, it's almost like, and again, not every listener, but it might be for a few people who don't know how much work goes into the podcast, especially indie podcasts, that they'll listen to it and then they'll move on with their day. So it's
01:00:44
Speaker
definitely I think that I think a lot of indie podcasters in particular need to realise that it's not for the most part anyway. I don't think it's necessarily malicious or it's anything that they've done. You know, the podcaster has done to cause people to like run away from them. Yeah, definitely more that maybe either they just don't have time or they've been fucking through or whatever and yeah, it can be hard on us, I have to say.
01:01:10
Speaker
But yeah, at the same time, though, it makes those messages that when people actually reach out to us and say, oh, I loved that episode or no, I thought that was great, all the more special. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think that's the thing about podcast listening. I think a lot of people do it while they're multitesting. So like I said, they're cleaning the house, they're driving, they're exercising, or they're taking a walk. So it's not as easy at the end to like, oh, let me write this message because you might be in the middle of something else. So yeah, as you said, it makes those reach outs even more special. So yeah.
01:01:40
Speaker
So all, if you out there are a podcast listener, definitely. If you want to take the time to share a little note with your favorite pod tester about an episode that resonated with you, that person will definitely appreciate it. Because I think, as you said, listeners don't always realize that we don't get a lot of that direct feedback that say maybe a YouTuber or a streamer would get because there's like that comment feature or there's that easy like feature. You know, we can see you live watching us. But yeah, podcasting is a little tough when it comes to feedback. So it's all appreciated.
01:02:08
Speaker
especially when you put out a tweet or a post and you say something like, oh, what did you think? And then you don't get any comments underneath it. And, you know, maybe that's the algorithm at work. Maybe it's just people go, oh, funny picture, haha, like, and then move on. And it's a whole host of reasons. So I'm totally with you there. So what I'm saying is if you have any positive comments, go over to beyond six seconds
01:02:34
Speaker
over on Twitter and yeah, leave all the lovely messages about the podcast.
Conclusion and Farewell
01:02:39
Speaker
Definitely. And the same with Chatsunami if you, you know, definitely let Satsu know how much you appreciate the show because if you're still listening in this episode, we've been talking for a while, so you're a true fan if you're still listening, so definitely let him know. Oh, thank you.
01:02:52
Speaker
But all I'll say is I think the limit that I have for promoting myself on social media is dancing in front of the camera on TikTok. I technically have a TikTok, but I use it for podcasts and memes, I'm going to be honest.
01:03:07
Speaker
very low effort. It probably doesn't get any listeners at all, but I would rather do that than either leave it to Snagney or do a dance, and I'm not saying that as a criticism to anybody who does do dances on TikTok. I'm saying that the world is not ready to see me dance. Nobody wants to see that. Even on Patreon, nobody wants to see me dance. That would get me banned on Patreon, probably, but that's another
01:03:33
Speaker
But yeah, Carolyn, thank you so, so much for coming on tonight and talking about A All Things Podcasting and your absolutely fantastic show. Yeah. Thank you, Satsunami, for inviting me on the show. And it was great talking with you. Yeah. I love talking with other podcasters and it was great to have this opportunity to just get to know you better, not just only through your show, but to get to talk with you directly. So thanks again. This is really fun.
01:03:59
Speaker
I have to admit, these are some of my favourite episodes to record because, as you said, you do get to know people a bit better through it. You get to just chat about everything and everything. It's just an absolutely fantastic experience. So thank you so much again. But before we wrap up, and this is a part of the show where I have the call to action. So where can these lovely listeners find your content, reach out to you and say how wonderful a podcast you have? Yeah, where can they find you?
01:04:27
Speaker
Sure. So you can find me at beyond six seconds dot net. And that's the number six, although I think I bought all the domain names. So if you spell out six, it should take you there too. So that's my website is beyond six seconds dot net. Or you can find me on your favorite podcast player under beyond six seconds. All my episodes will be out there.
01:04:47
Speaker
And if you go to my website, or if you go into the show notes of the app, you can link to my website. It's got all my social media and a contact form, newsletter signup form, so you can get there from the website. And yeah, I just want to reiterate, absolutely fantastic podcast. Go check out Beyond Six Seconds. You will not regret it. Thank you. Thank you. It was great talking with you. It was great talking with you as well. It's been a great episode. And again, I'm not just saying that.
01:05:20
Speaker
And if you want to listen to more episodes from ourself, you can of course check us out on our website, chatsandami.com, as well as all good podcast apps. I also want to thank our Pandalorian patrons, Robotic Battle Toaster and Sonya. Thank you so, so much for supporting the show. And if you want any extra content from ourselves, then you can check us out at patreon.com forward slash
01:05:42
Speaker
Chatsunami. But until next time, stay safe, stay awesome and most importantly, stay hydrated. Welcome to Chatsunami, a variety podcast that discusses topics from gaming and films to anime and general interest. Previously on Chatsunami, we've analysed what makes a good horror game, conducted a retrospective on Pierce Brosnan's runs James Bond, and listened to us take deep dives into both the Sonic and Halo franchises.
01:06:07
Speaker
Also, if you're an anime fan, then don't forget to check us out on our sub-series, Chatsunani, where we dive into the world of anime. So far, we've reviewed things like Death Note, Princess Mononoke, and the hit Beyblade series. If that sounds like your cup of tea, then you can check us out on Spotify, iTunes, and all big podcast apps. As always, stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, stay hydrated.
01:06:30
Speaker
First impressions can take only six seconds to make, but if you're neurodivergent, those quick judgments about you can be misleading. Because of most people's ignorance around learning disabilities, people think it means you're intellectually incapable. I'm not Rain Man. Every once in a person isn't Rain Man. I thought I was talking to people who understood just like they had ADHD, but they did not. They freaked out and were like, well, if you've got Tourette's, if it's going to be a problem, then we can just fire you and get someone else.
01:07:00
Speaker
I'm Carolyn Keel, and I host Beyond Six Seconds, a podcast where neurodivergent people share their lives and advocacy. One of my goals is making autism not something that's scary. I really want to help people understand this proxy a little bit better. Get the real life of threat syndrome out there. Stop thinking we are nothing but a joke. Let's shatter misconceptions and celebrate neurodiversity together. Listen at beyondsixseconds.net or wherever you get your podcasts.