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Episode 187 - The Marketing Quickstart Guide pt 2
1.4k Plays1 year ago
Today on the podcast is part 2 of The Marketing Quickstart Episode. In part 1 which was episode 185, we answered a question from a listener who asked, "Where would we recommend someone get started with marketing their services?" In today's episode we're answering a bunch of followup questions that we received from part 1.
Admittedly, I thought we were going to fly through these questions but then we got chatting and we spent a little bit more time on each question that we had initially envisioned. So if you're looking for an answer to a specific question, be sure to check out the timestamps in the show notes. And if you have a question, send it to us, seriously. We always try to get back to people who write us in some form. That might be just sending along some resources we think might be helpful, or who knows, maybe we'll record an entire episode devoted to the question, but we love answering listener questions.
As always, links and resources can be found in the show notes. Check 'em out at https://daveyandkrista.com/ And if you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review over at Apple Podcasts.
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Transcript
Submitting Weddings to Publications
00:00:05
Speaker
The publications also tend to work seasonally and they're going to schedule their content several weeks or even months out. So if you have a summer wedding, the best time to submit that wedding might be in early spring or in the summer because they're going to look at the wedding and they'll think this fits with the aesthetic of the seasonality right now. The colors are in line with what's going to work on our blog and our Instagram. And so it's more likely that you're going to say get a yes then than if you were to submit a snowy winter wedding in March.
00:00:35
Speaker
Welcome to the Brands at Book Show, where we help creative service-based businesses build their brands and find more clients. I'm your host, Davy Jones.
Marketing Quick Start Introduction
00:00:45
Speaker
Today on the podcast is part two of the Marketing Quick Start episode. In part one, which was episode 185, we answered a question from a listener who asked where we would recommend someone get started with marketing their services. In today's episode, we're answering a bunch of follow-up questions that we received from part one.
00:01:04
Speaker
Admittedly, I thought we were going to fly through these questions today, but of course we got chatting and we spent a little bit more time on each question than we had initially envisioned. So if you're looking for an answer to a specific question, be sure to check out the timestamps in the show notes.
00:01:19
Speaker
And if you have a question, send it to us seriously. We always try to get back to people who write in in some form.
Listener Engagement
00:01:26
Speaker
That might be just sending along some resources that we think might be helpful, or who knows, maybe we'll record an entire episode devoted to the question. But we love answering listener questions.
00:01:37
Speaker
As always, links and resources can be found in the show notes. Check them out at davianchrista.com.
Basecamp Advert
00:01:41
Speaker
And if you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review over at Apple Podcasts. All right, a big thanks to Basecamp, the project management platform, for sponsoring this episode. Imagine working with your team on a project and you're trying to do everything over email. Things seem to work well enough at the beginning, but once you start adding more than a couple people or sharing more than a couple files, the entire project becomes disorganized.
00:02:06
Speaker
Managing projects is tough enough. It's a struggle to juggle people, work, and expectations under pressure. Problem is, many project management platforms make it even harder by overcomplicating things, leaving teams to abandon tools when the promise fades and frustration sets in. That's when teams turn to base camp. Famously straightforward and effective, teams stick with it and projects thrive on it.
00:02:31
Speaker
Basecamp makes collaborating on projects easy without having to waste time. Teams that use Basecamp send less emails and have fewer meetings. If you are struggling with projects, sign up for Basecamp. Their pricing is simple and they give you all their features in a single plan, no upsells, no upgrades. Go to basecamp.com forward slash Davian Christa and try Basecamp for free. No credit card required and cancel anytime.
Casual February Weather Chat
00:03:02
Speaker
It is February, but it's like 80 degrees outside. We have the windows open. It's kind of a tease though, cause it's going to get colder this weekend. Yeah. I don't get February. We always get one of these days where it makes you really excited for spring. We've had multiples though. Like everything green is popping up. It doesn't feel like, I guess it's mid February still. Well, it's close to the end now, but yeah, the weather's crazy. Yeah. I mean,
Office Transformation Discussion
00:03:24
Speaker
don't get me wrong. I have been grateful for a warmer than usual winter for sure. You had like no snow.
00:03:30
Speaker
Yeah, it would have been nice to get one good snow storm, just mostly for the kids. You know, mostly just be able to go sledding with them. All the snow went out west this year. Yeah, but in general, we're grateful for some more weather. We're excited once the kids get home. We're going to do some gardening. They love helping in the garden right now. They're just in that stage where they love to get out their own little shovels and stuff like that. Yeah. So excited to do that. Also excited because the DK studio here getting a major transformation.
00:03:56
Speaker
This is a point of contention because Davey really wants a standing desk, but he has a really nice, beautiful desk that matches mine. And I like matching, but I don't want to stand up when I work. Yes. Well, I'm not getting rid of that desk, but I am adding a standing desk.
00:04:12
Speaker
I'm excited to be able to stand while I work because I think I just work better standing. You know, like I think it's just thoughts come to me more easily. A lot of times when I'm recording videos, I think to myself, man, I wish I could be standing recording this. I don't know what it is about sitting down, which makes me feel, I don't know. Are you going to start recording podcasts standing up?
00:04:31
Speaker
Yeah, you can stay seated over there in your desk. Anyways, part of the contention too is that Krista doesn't often come up to the office. So, you know, she has all these thoughts about how the office should look, but who uses the office on a daily basis? I'll be better. Okay.
00:04:50
Speaker
Well, I'm excited for you to join me back up in the DK studio. If we can make it look okay, maybe we'll share a post on Instagram. Oh, it's going to be amazing. You have a lot of cords over there that we need to clean up. Yes, we do. We do. Anyways, we're not here to
Marketing Quick Start Continuation
00:05:03
Speaker
talk about that. We're here to talk about marketing. And this is actually part two of an episode. We recorded the first part a few weeks ago. So this episode, it's not the previous episode. It's the episode before that. I'll make sure that the number is linked to in the show notes, of course.
00:05:18
Speaker
But that episode we recorded as sort of a quick start guide to marketing. Basically, it was in response to a listener question who was wondering, with all the different platforms out there, with all these different voices, I just don't really know where to start. There's maybe a little bit of overwhelm in getting started with marketing. And so this was our response to that question.
00:05:39
Speaker
And we approached it from a three-step perspective, assuming little to no marketing budget. And we answered for a service-based business. So if you're a product-based business, I think there's still really helpful tips in there, but we definitely answered for somebody who is trying to reach other people to market
Hiring Copywriter vs. Gifts
00:05:56
Speaker
a service.
00:05:56
Speaker
Yeah, so I'd say very specific to service-based businesses, we sort of answered from the perspective of a photographer since that's who was asking the question. Again, if you have questions, feel free to ask them because not only that, we'll probably use your business type as an example. And you can ask your questions anonymously. If you're on our email list, I often send out a form that asks if people have questions that people can put their questions anonymously there if they'd like.
00:06:21
Speaker
And they make for a great discussion. Even amongst us, we really enjoy those questions because they allow us, as we discuss them personally, to distill our own thoughts. So anyways, we put together a three-step guide to getting started with marketing. This is part two of that episode because we got a few follow-up questions. So some of these follow-up questions actually from the original listener, others from that form that I just mentioned.
Marketing Options for Businesses
00:06:45
Speaker
So I'm excited to go through these. I'll list out these questions in the episode description so you can see where we're going with this episode. We're going to jump around just a little bit, but we should dive in because we have a number of good questions here and I think we'll have, like each of these questions probably can make their own episode. One of these questions for sure will make for a future episode.
00:07:03
Speaker
All right, so question number one, should I use my marketing budget? So if you have any sort of marketing budget, is it more important to hire a copywriter or coach to help me with the reaching my ideal client? All right, so coming up with that language to reach your ideal client, so you're speaking to a specific person.
00:07:22
Speaker
or should I use that budget for gifts? All right, so that's the question. And sort of the last sentence in this question is, but is it more important than talking to my ideal client? And this is one of those questions, I mean, I think like most questions, there's not a single right answer here. I think you can go a number of different directions and there's a lot of extenuating circumstances and factors that I think would sort of adjust my answer to this question. So for instance, are you getting a lot of inquiries right now and just not from the right people?
00:07:51
Speaker
Or are you not getting very many inquiries and that's a struggle? Because I think that changes things as well. If you're getting a ton of inquiries right now and they're just not from the type of client that you want to work with, then I'd probably say, yeah, I mean, find a coach, find a copywriter who might help you distill your brand voice a little bit and might help you better reach the people that you're trying to reach.
00:08:14
Speaker
If you're not really getting any traction to begin with, you know, I might say, you know, see what you can do on your own on the copyrighting front and maybe try to develop some relationships with other people that are sort of in your industry doing related things. So in that first episode, we talked about gifting as just a great way to start building relationships.
00:08:34
Speaker
with people who are serving the same audience that you wanna serve, but doing different things. So for a photographer, the people who come to mind are, of course, planners, floral designers, venue owners, right? And you can build relationships with them without spending any money on gifts. I would say that when we were just getting started as photographers,
00:08:52
Speaker
We prioritize gifting for our clients before we prioritize gifting for other wedding planners or venues. And so that way you know that if somebody has already booked you, they've given you money and a percentage of what they've given you, you're going to put back in towards gifting for them. And I think that it was only when we were booking consistently at one price point and we wanted to reach another price point that we started to focus on gifting for other vendors that would maybe help us grow to that price point.
00:09:19
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. I mean, the point is that there's options here. You know, I would say hiring a coach is I think always been pretty invaluable experience for us, you know, like we've never regretted doing that. We've always learned a lot. Having the accountability is really nice, you know, and again, like if we go back to that first episode, step one, or I think maybe we call it step zero
Promoting Blog Content
00:09:38
Speaker
was just getting started, right?
00:09:41
Speaker
don't think you have to learn one more thing before you get started, just get started. And the nice thing about a coach is that they're gonna help you get started because they're gonna lay out things like, hey, and they're gonna do this with you alongside of you, come up with different objectives. But then when you meet with that coach, they're gonna expect those things to have been done. And I think that's one of the most valuable things about having a coach.
00:10:02
Speaker
So, you know, it's sort of hard to say one way or another, whether, you know, you should spend that money on hiring a copywriter or coach or putting that money into gifting. I would think through, you know, again, some of those things I just mentioned about, you know, how many inquiries are you getting right now? Do you feel like the people you are working with are the right people? Because if you maybe you're not getting that many inquiries, but they're all good inquiries that you get, you know, I would say you're probably effectively speaking to those people. You just need to figure out how to amplify that. Right. And so again, getting in front of
00:10:30
Speaker
people who are serving that same audience would probably be a good way to go. Now, just to throw it out there too, there are always options for pretty much any stage of business out there. So no matter what you're looking for, whatever you feel like you have to spend your budget on. So for instance, I've just go through a few of our own offerings as an example here. Brand design, website design, marketing, copywriting.
00:10:54
Speaker
But yeah, as you're thinking about spending that marketing budget, something else that you have to take into consideration are your gifts as well. So if you feel like you're a pretty good copywriter, or you have enough skills at least to be dangerous, then maybe hiring a copywriter isn't the way to go. Same thing with design, a lot of times we're gonna tell people, if you're just getting started, it's totally okay to purchase a website template and customize it on your own. But if you feel like you're really gonna get stuck there and you're just never going to finish that,
00:11:22
Speaker
then maybe your money's best spent putting towards website design when you can take care of maybe some of the copywriting or some of these other marketing efforts. And there are typically options out there for any business stage if you look around. So just going through some of our offerings as an example, if you're looking for brand design and you're just getting started, you could go with one of our semi-custom brands. So pre-designed brand, we'll customize it for your business though. You can find those in the shop.
00:11:46
Speaker
If you're ready to level up a bit, then go with custom brand, right? And we have various levels of custom brand design as well, depending on what you need. You know, whether you just need sort of that core visual brand package, you know, where you're going to get, you know, logo, sublogos, fonts, colors, you know, that sort of thing. Or if you need a lot more, you know, print materials and social media templates and so on and so forth.
00:12:08
Speaker
You go to website design. If you're just getting started, you can DIY a template. Find a designer you like, a reputable designer, and grab one of their templates and customize them. If you have a little bit more of a budget, you can go to what we would call a startup session or a cleanup session. Basically, it just depends on what side of the project you're on. If you just need somebody to get you started in your website, get your navigation there, get your color set, logo in there,
00:12:34
Speaker
Put your fonts in. Yeah, put your fonts in. You can do a startup session. Cleanup session is the same thing, but on the other end of the project, you've done as much customization as you can on your own, and now you need somebody to clean it up. And then if you're ready to level up from there, you can go with a semi-custom website design or a custom website design, which are both done for you services.
00:12:52
Speaker
Then if we go to marketing, if you're just getting started, you could start with an SEO course or an ads course. If you need a little bit more assistance, then I know, for instance, over at Till, we have an option for people where we'll just get them started with their first ad campaign. So we'll get things set up, we'll do some consulting, help them figure out how to manage it, and then they're off on their own. So one-time fee. If somebody's looking for something that's a little bit more done for you, we have ongoing options, retainer options.
00:13:20
Speaker
And then the same thing's true for copywriting. I know copywriters say Jessica Jordana, for instance, have promptlets. And if you're ready to level up from there, you can hire somebody to do done for you copywriting. Point being is that regardless of where you're at, there are probably options out there for you. Right. I think it's just a matter of how
Submitting Work to Wedding Publications
00:13:39
Speaker
much help you need and how much you want to hand off to someone else.
00:13:42
Speaker
and knowing yourself and your situation. Again, just understanding your strengths and understanding where you're going to get stuck. Awesome. All right, cool. We should go on to the next question. We have a lot of questions to get through. I know. We might need to break this into a couple part episode. What are some strategies or hooks to help promote the blog post content that I create? Should I break it up into sections and post about it? Is there a specific strategy?
00:14:08
Speaker
Yeah, no, that's a good question. And, you know, that's, I think the issue that a lot of people run into is they spend, you know, 80% of their time writing or creating content, and then they spend only 20% of the time sharing that content, and it should be reversed, right? You should spend a lot more time sharing that content and figuring out how to share it effectively than you do creating the content. That doesn't mean that you don't put effort into it, of course. But getting people to actually visit it, whole different ballgame.
00:14:35
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, and it can take several shares before somebody ever clicks under link or goes to it because maybe they, I don't know. I feel like for me, sometimes I'll see things and I'll want to read them, but then the baby fusses or like the dog barks or just, there's something that needs to be attended to immediately. And regardless of how much I wanted to do that thing, read that thing in the moment, I just couldn't get to it.
00:14:57
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. And so that's why it's so important, I think, to reshare content over time. And you'll find that we'll share something and we'll feel like, oh man, that should have done a lot better than it did. We think this is a really good piece of content. And it turns out that it's just the way we shared it, right? And so it's coming up with a new hook. I would say learning to write a good hook is one of the most beneficial things that you can do to get more eyeballs on your content, right? And learning to write a good hook, it's a skill that you develop through, shockingly,
00:15:26
Speaker
practice, right? It's just something that you have to do over and over again. I'd say this is a skill that we're still working on and something that, you know, when we're thinking about how to share a piece of content, we spend a lot of time on this. So we have a couple tips for writing a good hook, but again, you know, the best way to get better at this is just to practice. Also to take note of those articles that catch your attention, you know, or those posts that catch your attention. Even if it's not somebody sharing a post,
00:15:53
Speaker
My guess is that if it's a video on TikTok or YouTube or something like that, their hook is that first clip, right? And pay attention to what they do. How do they draw you in? And then try to apply that to your own content. So I think at the end of the day, what you're trying to do with a hook is elicit emotion.
00:16:11
Speaker
So think about the different ways that you knew that. Think about the different ways you can elicit an emotional response from people, whether it's peaking curiosity, whether maybe it's getting them worked up about something, maybe it's making somebody laugh about something, but these are all things that I think will catch people's attention and hopefully draw them in to the content that you're creating. So one of those ways that you can do that is by stating something controversial.
00:16:35
Speaker
Obviously you want to tread carefully here. This is actually a pet peeve of mine to be honest. For instance, I saw it was a photographer and she posted something like controversial opinion warning or something like that. You shouldn't take hours to edit your photos. And I'm like, but that's not really a controversial opinion.
00:16:52
Speaker
I feel like so many people, they'll be like, this is a controversial opinion or this is something that people should talk more about. And then whatever they say, it's like something that people already talk a ton about, right? But the point is- Magazines do this all the time on their covers. They'll make something seem really controversial. And then if you were to actually read the article, it gets not that controversial. It's just stating the obvious.
00:17:14
Speaker
Yeah, and so this is honestly sort of a pet peeve of mine, but the reason people do it is because it works, right? Ask a question. You know, I think that naturally when a question is asked, we want to know the answer or we want to know at least what somebody thinks about the answer. So asking a question is a good way to draw people in. Dropping people into the middle of a thought or middle of a story.
00:17:33
Speaker
So for instance, you might say something like, I couldn't believe she just said that, you know, dot, dot, dot swipe for more, you know, and naturally you want to know, couldn't believe she said what, what happened next, right? Yeah. So drop people sort of in the middle of a thought and, you know, tell them how they find out more, right? And so that might be just swiping for a carousel or clicking on a link or whatever.
00:17:57
Speaker
For controversial statement, if you're a wedding photographer, you might say something like, first looks are out, do this instead. And again, I don't know if first looks are out, that's just an example. Probably not. Yeah, exactly. But point being is you can do those things to draw people into the content that you're creating instead of just saying, if you wrote a post all about first looks or whatever, instead of just saying,
00:18:20
Speaker
read my article all about first looks, you know? Yeah, another example, maybe you're writing about like some sort of health topic, you know, you might say, can you beat this statistic, you know? And the statistics may be like one in three people don't get enough sleep, I don't know, right? So anyways, just a couple examples there. All right, moving on. The next question, you guys mentioned you used to have a wedding publication, not me, but Krista.
00:18:46
Speaker
I did. Yeah. Do you have any tips on getting published? I've sent my work in a few times, but don't always get great results. Is there something I can be doing better? Yeah. So, Krista, you have a whole bunch of tips here. So I'll let you roll through this. I feel like this could be its own pub. We might have actually done with Megan Brown from Two Bright Lights years
Service-Based Business Website Essentials
00:19:05
Speaker
ago. Yeah. So if you check the podcast episodes out, we definitely have at least one episode, I would say, on getting published. Yeah.
00:19:14
Speaker
These are my personal tips coming from both a, yeah, I used to own a local wedding blog called Bayside Bride many, many years ago. And it was a popular blog. It was a popular blog with my friend Natalie. And then I was a wedding photographer for close to 10 years. And so our work was featured all over the place.
00:19:32
Speaker
First, I think it's important to do research about the existing content on a site before you submit your work. Look and see what kinds of images, what kinds of weddings or like just DIY projects or styled shoots that they're sharing because you want to make sure that what you send in is in line with their aesthetic and what they typically share.
00:19:51
Speaker
So like for example, there's a publication out there called Rock and Roll Bride. You can kind of imagine what kinds of content that they are going to share. It's probably edgier, like different, unique, not traditional. So you wouldn't want to send like a classic Southern wedding with monograms to that publication because there's a really good chance that it's just not in line with what they share and they're going to turn you down. I think those are two extreme examples, but it's just good to make sure that whatever you're sharing is in line with the blog's aesthetic.
00:20:20
Speaker
Publications also tend to work seasonally and they're going to schedule their content several weeks or even months out. So if you have a summer wedding, the best time to submit that wedding might be in early spring or in the summer because they're going to look at the wedding and they'll think this fits with the aesthetic of the seasonality right now. The colors are in line with what's going to work on our blog and our Instagram.
00:20:43
Speaker
And so it's more likely that you're gonna say get a yes then than if you were to submit a snowy winter wedding in March. Like they're probably not thinking about snowy winter weddings. They're gonna either wanna see that content later or it's just not gonna work on their publication.
00:20:59
Speaker
When you are submitting, it's also great to keep in mind the types of images that you're submitting. So publications want you to go heavy on the details. Details are what differentiate weddings from each other. So I think it's always good to include a few bridal party photos, especially the bridesmaids because bridesmaids tend to have pretty flowers and colorful dresses and they kind of give the tone and the aesthetic for a wedding.
00:21:23
Speaker
but you don't need to include like 20 bridal party photos. The same with bride and groom photos. I think it's good to send a few that kind of set the scene and let you see what the bride and the groom were wearing, what the couple was wearing. I think it's good to include scenery shots and then like maybe one or two ceremony photos, getting ready photos, reception photos, but most publications aren't looking for like 20 dancing photos or 20 ceremony photos. If they share any from that, it's gonna be one or two.
00:21:52
Speaker
So definitely focus on the details. I also think it's important to send a detailed write up about the wedding day or about the shoot or the publication. So share your inspiration. If it's a wedding, talk about the couple, tell their story, tell their inspiration for the wedding day, and you can ask your couples questions to get those types of answers. But the more detail you give and the easier you make it for the publication to turn around,
00:22:18
Speaker
and write the story for their blog, the easier it's going to be for them to say yes. It's also really important to make sure that you give detailed vendor credits because couples, if they see a bridesmaid's dress or if they see a cool frame that had the seating chart in it, they're probably going to get questions from readers about where that specific thing came from.
00:22:43
Speaker
It just saves them a lot of time and it makes it easier for them to say yes to featuring you if you give them a ton of detail about all of the vendors and all of the items involved, especially if the wedding included major vendors that are already advertisers on their site. That's always a win.
00:23:01
Speaker
Make sure that you review submission guidelines. If you don't submit something in the correct format, in the correct chart way, it's more likely that you're gonna be rejected. Again, you just wanna make it so easy for them to say yes and not give them extra work.
00:23:17
Speaker
When we submitted, we also always started with exclusive publications that gave us more visibility and then we worked our way down to smaller publications. It's also a major no-no for a lot of publications if you submit the same shoot to a bunch of different blogs.
00:23:35
Speaker
most places like exclusivity and they'll say whether they want something to be exclusive or not on their site. They don't want to share their wedding that they're featuring or their content that they're featuring from you with a bunch of other places. So that's important too. And if you do get rejected, you can always ask the editor why. If it's a bigger, busier publication, they might not give you a reply, but smaller ones might be helpful in terms of figuring out what they want for their readers.
00:24:04
Speaker
Yeah, that's a lot of really good information. So we won't go into detail on each of those things. If you have a question about this, definitely send them in. Again, if we feel like we can't get to your like replying specifically to your email, we can usually send over resources at least, or maybe it turns into its own podcast episode. But getting questions about these things too helps us gauge.
00:24:23
Speaker
how popular the topic is as well. So definitely let us know. The only thing I would add there is, and you've already said it, don't forget to try local publications.
Including Pricing on Websites
00:24:32
Speaker
I think in some ways, I remember one of our episodes that we've done with a PR expert, she had mentioned how she ended up getting a lot more leads from more local regional outlets than national outlets. And that makes a lot of sense, right?
00:24:46
Speaker
So question number four, basically this question, the context of it being asked is what do I need to include on my website so as to give potential clients the information they need to make a decision, but then also not to overwhelm them. All right. And so I believe a stationary designer asked this question and she's basically wondering like, do I need to include all of my different crest icons and stationary options?
00:25:09
Speaker
And then the next question is related, so we'll answer both of these at the same time. It's about pricing and determining whether you should put pricing on your website or not. I think a few things. One, this question is going to be answered differently depending on whether you are a e-commerce business, you're selling products on your courses on your website, or if you're a service-based business where somebody's likely going to reach out before booking you, right? Even if you're a service-based business, it's also going to be answered a little bit differently.
00:25:36
Speaker
If you're a plumber, for instance, I'm just thinking about this because we just recently called a plumber. I'm not calling multiple plumbers, interviewing them, asking for estimates. I'm calling a plumber and if he can show up, he's pretty much got the job. We should add that we also live in an area where there are not that many plumbers.
00:25:54
Speaker
if you're in New York City? Most people, I would assume, are not like interviewing people and not like they would do a consult with a wedding photographer. So how I'd answer these questions are a little bit different. For the plumber, SEO is going to be a lot more important, so it's going to be maybe actually really content-heavy sites, yada, yada, yada.
00:26:13
Speaker
So maybe a little bit different strategy. Not that SEO is an important for a wedding professional, but I would say that typically for a service-based business, when in doubt, I would go with sort of more of a less is more approach. And I'll get into what I mean about that in a second.
00:26:29
Speaker
So my guests, the people who are listening to this podcast probably fall into that more wedding venue, wedding photographer, designer, planner, service-based business type of work. So really on my website, I'm really trying to answer two questions. I'm trying to answer the question, am I good at what I do? And hopefully that question is yes. And who am I for?
00:26:51
Speaker
am I good at what I do and who am I for? And if you can answer those two questions, then likely that's enough for somebody to reach out for more information, right? And so this means to answer this question, am I good at what I do? I'm only showing off my best work. And that's what I mean taking a less is more approach. I don't need to include full galleries, each with a hundred images in them. I need to include only my best work, hard stop.
00:27:16
Speaker
As I pick work, I want to make sure that I'm picking work that appeals to the kind of client I want to work with. So it should have a consistent aesthetic across the board. I'm not trying to reach out to this type of client and this type of client. And well, what about people who like XYZ? My work should have a consistent look across the board. Sure, even if you're shooting, I mean, obviously if you're a wedding photographer, you shot all kinds of weddings, but your work hopefully has a consistent look.
00:27:43
Speaker
I do think, though, for service-based businesses, it's important to include things like social proof. It's important to include probably your process, details. Even a wedding photographer can't go away with just having a few images on their website. 100%. I'm just talking about answering that question in terms of images. Images can go a long way in answering both of those questions.
00:28:03
Speaker
even who are you for? You know, I'm working for instance with an adventure photographer, adventure elopement photographer on SEO. And her work, I mean, it is without a doubt reaches the types, like it speaks to the type of people she wants to work with, right? I mean, it is big landscape shots, mountains, you know, out in the woods, right? But like if she was trying to reach that type of client and all she was posting were like courthouse elopements, right? You could see the disconnect there. And that's obvious, you know, that's an obvious extreme.
00:28:33
Speaker
but try to appeal to the buyer persona of your ideal client with the images that you're choosing. But I agree, you can also answer those questions, am I good at what I do and who am I for, by including things like social proof on your website. Even the types of social proof you include, like somebody who is a luxury level,
00:28:52
Speaker
shopper, right? Somebody who's looking for, they want the best for their wedding. Even the places you've been published, that probably matters a lot, right? Whereas if somebody, maybe they like nice things, but they don't really care so much about the status symbol, right? Then it doesn't quite
00:29:08
Speaker
matter as much maybe about the social proof or the kind of social proof you include. Like I would think that for your adventurous photographer, like being published on big exclusive magazine may not matter to her clientele. Yeah, like does it matter to her clientele that their wedding or elopement is going to be picked up for Martha Stewart's magazine, right? Like
Business Strategies During Downturns
00:29:25
Speaker
that probably doesn't matter as much. But testimonials from other brides who want the same thing, that might matter a lot more.
00:29:33
Speaker
For this person specifically asking for this questions they ask about like including like they have a shop it sounds like and they want to know if they should include all of their crest icons or stationary icons. I would say if it's an e-commerce business like this and somebody's just coming to you they're placing an order like they should be able to see all of the options right there on your page.
00:29:54
Speaker
Whereas I would think if it was more of a custom project where they are hiring you and then working with you to customize something, they probably just need more of an example and they don't need to see like every option on the page. Does that make sense? It's like the more one-on-one they work with you, maybe the less you need to present every single option. Yeah, they just need I think a general sense.
00:30:18
Speaker
But if you want them to just come to you as a shop owner, I think that they probably do, and like not answer a ton of questions, they probably need to see all of the options right there. And that may mean even paring down your options to make it not so overwhelming.
00:30:33
Speaker
And again, for e-commerce, obviously, since somebody can purchase from you without ever having to speak with you, then you need to include all of the relevant information. And that's why if you go to sales pages, especially for courses or products or even high-level coaching and mentoring, that is more expensive, typically the longer the sales page gets.
00:30:55
Speaker
But I know a lot of really luxury level planners, for instance, that have pretty short services pages relative to some of those sales pages that I just referenced, right? And they're able to answer those questions. Am I good at what I do? Who am I for in that space? And if it doesn't answer those two questions, then it probably doesn't need to be there. Because remember, what's the next step? Getting somebody to reach out.
00:31:15
Speaker
All right, so hopefully that answers that question. I think that, again, can make its own episode a lot of these. Next question, pretty much same context. Yeah, so I'd mentioned we'd answer these questions at the same time. But basically our thing about, obviously, e-commerce, you have to include pricing because people need to know what they pay, duh. And that's not what this person was asking, of course. If you are a service-based business, we typically say, don't include pricing.
00:31:40
Speaker
Like really, I'd say that's not a hard and fast rule. For some industries, it's probably good to list some sort of price reference on there. But if you are going to list pricing, I would say, especially I'm thinking a wedding industry, maybe list something along the lines of a couple spend on average X amount. Right. And we've gone in depth about, that's called price anchoring. And we have a whole blog post that talks about the psychology behind that and by not listing your lowest prices first. And so we'll link to that in the show notes.
00:32:09
Speaker
Yes. And that will go into much more depth than we're providing here. Right. I mean, but the basic gist of it is that you don't want people to come to you thinking they can get all of what you offer for this low, low price when that's like maybe your very like lowest offer. And that's not something that you would advise most people book. So that is one of the reasons why we say the average couple spends X to get like the full experience of working with you.
00:32:34
Speaker
Yeah, and you know, the thing is, is that unless you are absolutely rolling in inquiries, you know, you just can't keep up with it, then I just don't see a real, like, it's just part of business to respond to inquiries that may be out of your budget, you know, and that just happens, you know, and I would rather that problem than not enough inquiries coming in. And I've said this before, I say this in the article, I think as well.
00:32:54
Speaker
I would rather somebody who's maybe on, that price point is sort of on the cusp for them being too high. Like we've had people come to us thinking maybe they weren't willing to pay as much as what we were charging. But then after having talked with us and understanding the process and the experience, decide, oh, okay, I understand why it's priced this way and this is what I want. So,
00:33:18
Speaker
Those are high level thoughts about pricing. Well, we don't ever really recommend, unless you're an e-commerce shop, is to list your whole menu of prices right on your website, especially for a service-based business. You want to give people a reason to inquire with you and start the conversation. And if you just give them all of the details about every single bell and whistle, you might not be answering their questions and they might not ever reach out to you because they have no reason to inquire.
00:33:46
Speaker
I know a lot of times that when we are photographers, people inquired, we asked them questions, got to know them. And then like you said, in that process, maybe they adjusted their budget so that they were able to work with us because in getting to know us, they really like fell in love with us and our work.
00:34:01
Speaker
Yeah, and this is a contentious question too. I know people feel very strongly about pricing on websites or not and whether it's transparent and yada, yada, yada. I think at the end of the day, you can probably find people who have had success listing all of their pricing on their website. That's just not our take on it. All right, moving on, last question here.
00:34:23
Speaker
about getting inquiries and bookings in what feels like a recession. And this is a very timely question actually about something Chris and I were just discussing. SEO is fantastic. This person's been doing SEO for nearly a decade, has been fully booked every year, but this year just feels like not getting as many inquiries and not getting as many bookings. So basically what to do in this season. One of the things Chris and I were talking about earlier was actually this post we came across about
00:34:52
Speaker
you know, whether or not you believe we're in a recession, I think most people believe we're in a recession, right? And they're acting accordingly. Yeah. Even like if like this month specific numbers aren't saying, I think it has to do with how much the economy grows, right? Yeah. And you know, in this past month, right? I think consumer spending, I think the January numbers looked really good. I was just having a conversation actually with our neighbor about that. But point being, without getting into the numbers, you know, most people's perception is that we are in an economic downturn.
00:35:22
Speaker
Right. Yeah. Yeah. So anyways, you know what to do and what to focus on in the season. You know, I think that this is an episode that we're going to record. This is the one I alluded to at the beginning of this episode, saying that we're going to create a whole episode out of this question. But just a few thoughts right off that.
00:35:39
Speaker
One, I would focus on those things that don't scale, all right? So thinking about going back to the beginning of your business, those things that you did that maybe you don't want to do forever, right? You want to create systems for things, but going back and focus on those things that don't scale. What I mean are like focusing on relationships again. Over 10 years of business, you must have developed some relationships in your industry.
00:36:00
Speaker
This is the time, I mean, I wouldn't underestimate them. This is the time, you know, to not be afraid to say, hey, you know, I actually still got a lot of space left in my calendar that I'd love to book. You know, if there's anybody that you think I might be able to serve, I'd love to be connected with them. You know, simple things like that can keep you top of mind with, you know, and I don't know what this person specifically does. It sounds like they're in the wedding industry, but I don't know if they're a photographer or planner or whatnot, but doing something like that, simple way to stay top of mind in other people with other people.
00:36:29
Speaker
Like we've had industry colleagues of ours let us like know that they have availability and we think it's wonderful because if we like, let's say this person is a copywriter and if we know that some of our clients need copywriters, like we can send them right to this person and we know that most likely they're going to be able to help them right away.
00:36:48
Speaker
Yeah, not only that, but we want them to succeed too. We want them to have work. And it's not that we weren't necessarily thinking of them beforehand, right? But now that they've said something, obviously the next person who comes to us and says, hey, I need copywriting help, they're gonna be the first person we mentioned, they're gonna be at the top of the list. So go back to focusing on those relationships, don't underestimate them, feel free to, I would reach out to those people.
00:37:14
Speaker
Then also maybe look at some, I don't wanna be cavalier about this, but try to find maybe the gift in this season as well. There are probably things that now you have time to do that maybe you didn't previously have time to do. So in addition to relationships, maybe it's, I don't know, looking at things that you thought were working like SEO and revisiting your strategy there, or creating that piece of content that you've been saying you wanted to create and you just haven't got around to, or creating that course that you've been saying that you've wanted to create and just haven't had time to get to.
00:37:43
Speaker
going through updates on your website. Like there are all sorts of things that maybe you have been putting off, especially after 10 years, there might be things that need to be cleaned up. Exactly. And there just might be things that, you know, I know for us, social media has been that way to a certain extent, right? Like one of our big projects of the last year is like figuring out how to engage with people again. Cause you just get sort of stuck in doing the same thing over and over and over again.
00:38:06
Speaker
And at some point, we lifted up our heads and said, I don't feel like we're doing this as effectively as we can. So revisiting things like that, being humble enough to recognize those things, creating maybe a package or collection that fits the season for people. Maybe you typically don't take Friday weddings or something like that, or maybe typically you don't do anything less than shooting eight hours.
00:38:27
Speaker
maybe consider coming up with a six hour package. That's still worth your time, but offers people a little bit of a discount so that they feel like they're saving money. And that might make them more likely to book. And that might just be a temporary thing that you offer. What else? Maybe going back to a few wedding shows and networking events, maybe you didn't have to do that in the past, but now, why not? Getting out there and figuring out if you can hustle to get some leads, even though in the past that maybe you haven't had to do that.
00:38:56
Speaker
or build new relationships through those different events. Yeah, exactly, exactly. So those are just a few thoughts. I do think this is an interesting question. I think that for anybody listening who feels sort of that pinch, you're not the only one out there. I think that we've had a few guests lately on our episode that have mentioned it.
00:39:12
Speaker
Yeah, we've had quite a few guests I think over the past couple of months sort of mentioned sort of these less than ideal macro climate, you know? Right. So anyways, hopefully you don't feel alone in that. And again, I wouldn't underestimate your relationships. I think people do look for opportunities to serve others. You know, I know if any of our friends came to us and said, Hey, we're struggling to get bookings, there would be no judgment there. You know, it would just be, Oh, well, thanks for letting us know. Now we know somebody to refer.
00:39:39
Speaker
So anyways, that's it. This episode a little bit longer than I thought it would be. It's interesting. If you like episodes like this where we're just going through like, you know, I've put in air quotes right now, rapid fire, you know, answering questions, let me know. Cause we'd love to do more like this, but we do really like answering listener questions. So if you have questions, write to us, let us know. You either maybe show up on an episode like this or maybe it will create its own episode.
00:40:06
Speaker
I just laugh at rapid fire because we have five pages of notes for this episode alone. I know, I know. Well, thank you all for listening. I hope that wherever you are, there's some warm weather as well. And I'm looking forward to summer. Thanks, guys. Thanks for tuning in to the Brands That Book Show. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing and leaving a review in iTunes. For show notes and other resources, head on over to davianchrista.com.
00:40:45
Speaker
you