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62. When You Don’t Get the Job You Want: Leadership Insights from a 32-Year Chief - Pete Webb
62 Plays4 days ago
In this episode of the FireDawg Podcast, Matt is joined by returning guest Chief Master Sergeant (Ret.) Peter Webb. Chief Webb previously appeared on Episode 35, where he shared his journey from Army firefighter to Air Force Reserve Command Chief, his service as a Battalion Chief in Dothan, Alabama, and a first-hand account of serving as Incident Commander during a mayday.
Since that conversation, Chief Webb has retired from the Air Force after more than 32 years of service, concluding a military career that began in 1989 and culminated as Command Chief of the 919th Special Operations Wing. In this episode, we reflect on his military and civilian careers, the leadership lessons he’s learned over three decades of service, and the moments that most shaped him as a leader in both uniform and the fire service.
We also dive into a topic many professionals eventually face: what to do when you don’t get the job you applied for or the position you truly wanted. Chief Webb shares a personal experience with professional disappointment, how he processed it, what he did next, and how leaders can turn non-selection into growth.
This conversation is about leadership, resilience, and navigating careers when the path doesn’t go exactly as planned.
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Transcript
Sponsorship and Introduction
00:00:00
Speaker
This episode of the Fire Dog Podcast is supported by AOS Services, the one-stop shop for firefighting equipment compliance built for the DOD. At AOS Services, they help military fire departments stay mission-ready with customized programs that bundle everything from SCBAs and compressors to hoses, ladders, PPE care, rescue gear, and more. Their teams work worldwide, so whether you're stateside or overseas, they've got you covered.
00:00:21
Speaker
For all your firefighting equipment compliance needs, visit aosservicesinc.com to learn more. This episode of Fire Dog Podcast is supported by Roll Call Coins, founded by a 24-year Air Force firefighter veteran. They understand that a coin represents more than just an event. It represents a story.
00:00:37
Speaker
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Guest Introduction: Chief Master Sergeant Retired Peter Webb
00:00:57
Speaker
This is the Fire Dog Podcast.
00:01:10
Speaker
Welcome, my name is Matt Wilson and thank you for listening to episode 62 of the Fire Dog Podcast. In today's episode, I'm joined by returning guests and someone with an extraordinary career spanning both the military and civilian fire service, Chief Master Sergeant Retired Peter Webb.
00:01:23
Speaker
Many of you remember Chief Webb from episode 35 where we talked about his journey from the Army to the Air Force Reserves, his role as a command chief in the 919th Special Operations Wing, his service as a battalion chief in Dothan, Alabama, and his firsthand account of a mayday where he served as incident commander.
Career Reflections and Leadership Lessons
00:01:41
Speaker
Since that episode, Chief Webb has retired from the Air Force after more than 32 years of service and has continued his leadership in the Civilian Fire Service. Today, we're going to reflect on the arc of his career, the leadership lessons he's learned along the way, the most impactful moments of his service,
00:01:56
Speaker
and a topic many of us face at some point in our careers, what to do when you don't get the job you applied for in the position that you really wanted. It is my pleasure to welcome back to the Fire Dog Podcast, Chief Pete Webb.
Handling Extreme Weather Challenges
00:02:12
Speaker
Chief, good morning to you. Great to have you on. ah Good morning. How are you doing? I am doing great, sir. I'm ah affected by this winter storm we have rolling through, so contending with that, Texas doesn't know how to handle that kind of stuff, as I'm sure it's the same in Alabama.
00:02:26
Speaker
yeah Yeah, pretty much. In the northern part of the state, they've they've got some infrastructure. But where I live at, um we might look we might we had a snowstorm last year where we got like six inches of snow and we got one sanding truck from the state to come down and assist us. so that Fortunately, it wasn't it the problem was normally it melts here, but last year it did. We had snow for two days on the ground and people drive and turn to ice. So that that that was the tough part as far as getting people stay off the roads. But No major incidents. I had one working fire in the middle of it, but it all played out. But yeah, i was talking to somebody in Texas and he was flying out to Boston yesterday. And he goes, I'd rather be snowed in Boston than Texas because they're losing their mind. I said, okay. I think people, you know, i lived in the North for a time. People the North don't understand that the infrastructure...
00:03:16
Speaker
isn't built for this kind of weather. um You know, maybe one snow that melts in the daytime, but when you're talking about sustained cold and wet, icy, snowy conditions, you know, I don't think anybody can handle ice, you know heavy ice conditions, no matter where you are in the world. You know what i mean? So when that stuff's hanging on yeah electrical lines and everything else, you know, ice and that stuff doesn't mix well.
00:03:41
Speaker
Yeah. The, uh, the message, of course I get the messages from across the state from, Alabama EMA, and we're we're monitoring because if we have to go up and support, but one statistic I saw, a quarter inch of ice breaks power lines, a half inch of ice shuts down power for days because they have to rebuild because the power lines just don't break in one area. If I remember correctly, they can break in several sections in a span and sometimes they can reconnect. Well, in that they have to replace all the lines and of course, you know, icy conditions and, you know, you know, we put out our messages here. I know tomorrow it's supposed to drop 50 degrees. We got cold, the cold front will come through. We'll be in the seventies and it's supposed to drop down to the high twenties. So, okay. Yeah. We stay inside, but as soon as you have a fire and you got that much cold, that water is going to freeze someplace. And, you we don't have chains. We're not sanding or salting or anything like that. So it turns into
00:04:33
Speaker
Turns into something interesting. Exactly. Well, I didn't plan to ah talk about winter storms in preparation with you this morning, but, you know, hey, I think it's relevant. You know,
Background and Family in Fire Service
00:04:44
Speaker
it's a fire service podcast. You got to talk about how we prepare, you know, and from the public safety perspective to do that kind of stuff.
00:04:50
Speaker
And it's it's always interesting to me every time one of these natural disasters kind of rolls through and... I'm intrigued, I guess, naturally as a firefighter and how communities prepare for something like this. And really like just the logistical scale of it is, is impressive to me, you know, like how many millions of people are affected by it and what it does to the infrastructure and how much we take that infrastructure for granted, you know?
00:05:13
Speaker
Well, even with fire departments, um, you know, if, if you're a military firefighter, you don't have to technically worry about overtime. arm on the civilian side of house. And we have civilian firefighters in the federal service.
The Role of Mentorship and Followership
00:05:25
Speaker
i I get that. But when do you bring them in? Do you bring them in too early and they sit around and not do anything because you can't place them?
00:05:30
Speaker
But as soon as you don't bring them in early, now they can't get in so you're going to have overtime on the other end because people can't go home yet. So um it's it's always a challenge. When the snowstorm came in last week, I was talking to the fire chief and I was like, I don't want to not do anything.
00:05:44
Speaker
But as soon as we don't do anything, you know what happens. So, but we were lucky. We got about, I don't about inch and a half, two inches yesterday, last weekend, but it never stuck to the roads. It always stuck to grass on top of buildings. So it was kind of pretty.
00:05:55
Speaker
ah We didn't have any impacts, didn't have to shut down any roads and it melted within six hours. So it was quite different than last January. Yeah, a lot of complexities that you don't think about really until the moment comes and then you start thinking about and you're like, oh man, this is going to cost us a little bit more money.
00:06:11
Speaker
Yeah, it's going to tie into, it ties back and it's funny, incident management will tie back into administrative or ah professional development as well because you have to be proactive.
00:06:23
Speaker
Um, you don't, you know, and yeah and then you have to prioritize too at the same time. Where do I put my effort? Where do I aim my effort? Is it a jack of all trades type thing? Or do I laser sharp focus or, um, like my career?
00:06:37
Speaker
Um, I got the best of both worlds. I got to be a military firefighter. got to be a civilian firefighter. And both of those careers, um, supported my success. Um, i mean, it exposed me to a lot.
00:06:48
Speaker
Um, it prevented me from doing certain things too, when I wanted to do things and, ah which maybe we'll, we'll talk about here in the next 45 minutes to an hour. Yeah, absolutely. Chief. And for those who have, don't know, Chief Pete Webb, he was on episode 35 with us, correct, sir?
00:07:05
Speaker
I had to go back and look. Yes, sir. Yeah, I did as well. I didn't re-listen to it, but I do remember the conversation. So we highlighted the fact that you were a reserve command chief, which you are now retired from, correct?
00:07:16
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Been retired three years. Okay, cool. Congratulations on that. And you're a deputy fire chief in Dothan, Alabama. Yeah. I was ah promoted. So since the last episode, I actually, I got promoted during my retirement ceremony. I'm a civilian boss. I knew I was being promoted, but he actually... presented the boss and had me not necessarily do an oath. We do a ah declaration. Hey, we'll, we'll, we accept the responsibilities and we always do that publicly. Well, we did it at Eglin Air Force Base that day, but yes, the deputy fire chief over training and development, uh, been doing that for ah three and a half years now, right? It's already been three and a half years in that position.
00:07:50
Speaker
Isn't it crazy how time flies, even since we last spoke, you know, uh, and I, Chris Boikley had I wanted to bring you on because you were involved in FRAS a little bit because you had commanded a mayday some point in your career
Commanding a Mayday Incident
00:08:03
Speaker
in Dothan, Alabama. And you come and you speak about that event and kind of how you handled it and what happened, Craig?
00:08:10
Speaker
ah Yes. and And, you know, the the big thing about that is while the students in FRAS, they're learning how to survive. They're learning how to get the best of their air pack and their skills and rely on their buddy. I wanted to talk about the command aspect of what's going on on the outside. because it's very chaotic inside, but it's just chaotic outside. Fortunately, my May Day was turned around really quick, like 45 seconds to a minute.
00:08:34
Speaker
We had a firefighter fall through the, one leg fell through a floor. ah They were able to pull him out, get him out, and and move on from that. but there's a lot of things that go in with that incident commander, um you know, dealing with what they do. And, you know there's a lot of great lot of great information out here about how to manage a mayday, how to be prepared for a mayday. i mean, whether you follow Nick Martin, whether you follow Blue Card, um, or, you know, or or you do your own training, um, that's the key. Again, we come back to the storm prep, which are incident prep, you know, are you training, are you getting the sets of reps and et cetera.
00:09:06
Speaker
It's such an important element to everything, incident command. It's, it's one that I find a lot of interest in personally, just because of the complexity, the logistics and the planning aspect of it, you know, uh, it's,
00:09:19
Speaker
I don't want to say just as important. I would say all elements of an emergency response are important, but it's an important piece, and that's one that I take interest in.
Military Service and Leadership Roles
00:09:27
Speaker
So if you're interested in listening about that commanding the Mayday, go back to Episode 35, listen to Chief Pete Webb talk about that.
00:09:34
Speaker
ah Today we're going to get into some something a little bit different, but first I want to introduce you, Chief, again, for those who haven't listened to Episode 35. Who are you? ah How long did you spend in the Air Force? Where did you serve your time in the Air Force, and where are you currently?
00:09:49
Speaker
okay um So Pete Webb, um as we already said, and ah currently a deputy fire chief for Dothan, Alabama, ah which is the southeast portion of state. We're opposite of Mobile. A lot of people think we're Mobile, but we're closer to Florida and Georgia.
00:10:03
Speaker
um So been with Dothan right at, I think, march March is my anniversary month. So I'm going to hit 29 years in March ah here. I retired out of the Air Force in October of 22. That total 32 years.
00:10:18
Speaker
In that 32 years, eight of that was Army, Reserve, and active duty. I did it backwards. i went Reserve, then active duty, and then I jumped in the Air Force Reserve where the majority of my career um was at the 919 Special Operations Wing at Eglin.
00:10:32
Speaker
And so while there, deployed Aldafra after 9-11 was activated at Herbert Field for a year. ah And then my last deployment, which we're talking about time, was 10 years ago. as a I came home 10 years ago this this weekend, I think.
00:10:48
Speaker
um was in Jordan. So ah did that. i was the fire I was the deployed fire chief there. And then I did some time at 10th Air Force as the program manager, about 18 months.
00:10:59
Speaker
And I boarded and was selected to be the command chief back at the 919th. So i only about 18 months minus and minus deployments was I not at home Duke Field with the 919th. And yeah that's the difference between reserve Um, in active duty, you normally stay in the same place. Uh, you can move around, you can do some other things, but, uh, you know, one of the selling stories, Hey, you get to serve quote unquote locally. Well, that's changed over the years, over the last, uh, 36 years, uh, rules for reservists have changed. It used to be, had to live within 150 miles of the base.
00:11:30
Speaker
Then they changed that. Heck, I was drilling out of Fort Worth for 18 months. So I had to fly over to Dallas. But, uh, so, um, Other than that that, that's the background that, you know, did eight years in the army, 24 the air force, uh, retired as a command chief.
00:11:47
Speaker
Um, that's an interesting story how I got there. I think, uh, um, I didn't do any squadron in or group time as a SEL. I went right from a flight up to command
Character and Handling Professional Disappointment
00:11:57
Speaker
chief and, uh, probably it was, there's a story behind that, but, uh, education wise, I've got my master's. Um, I am an EFO grad, uh, that was way back in 2010.
00:12:09
Speaker
and You know, ah one of the things I'll talk about when you're recovering from a career, set if it's a setback or a speed bump, I am a doctoral student now. I'm in my second term at Columbia Southern University.
00:12:23
Speaker
ah i've It's been 15 years since I've written it in academia, and i'm I'm a little behind. But it's a good thing because it's always about lifelong learning. It's always about growing and going from there. So that's me in a nutshell. I'm married.
00:12:34
Speaker
My son is now a firefighter with Dothan as well. That's changed since the last one. He's been there about two years. That that adds an interesting a thing to a career, and but it's but it's been a good thing. It's it's kind of funny because as's a if his crew's getting in trouble, I won't get butt chief, I'll get butt dad. you know So it's is kind of funny with with the humor and all that. but um But no, I you know just wanted to follow back up. you know I don't get to listen to your podcast or any podcast. When I used to drive to Eglin was about a hundred miles. All my podcast listing was done while I'm driving. Well, now that I'm local, I hope to travel so I can listen to a podcast because that's the only time I get to really focus in on them. But, uh, you listened to, uh, Chris LaPointe. It was a Chris LaPointe.
00:13:18
Speaker
A couple episodes ago, the last episode? Little Party. Listened to his story a little bit. Didn't get the whole thing, but um I wanted to listen to it because I felt it tied into what I wanted to talk about a little bit today as well. Yeah.
00:13:29
Speaker
I'm kind of leaning as the host and in the direction of like let's highlight more of the individual. you know And we don't highlight so much programmatic things, but I just love and I you know i find it so intriguing, ah individual stories and career trajectories and you know what have you gone through, what have you learned along the way. And that's kind of what I'm trying to capture with Chris and what I'm going to also you know try to capture with you. Although we did have you on 35, so that somebody doesn't have to go back, they can listen to this one and yeah and kind of get the – and you know some things have happened since the last time we spoke with you too. so It's been four years.
00:14:04
Speaker
five, four years, five years. It's crazy to think that this podcast has been chugging along for that long. But Command Chief, that is an impressive achievement in from flight to wing. And I know the reserves are different than active duty, but it's still something, it's a testament, I think, probably to your leadership ability. And I think it's a testament probably to how
Likability and Trust in Leadership
00:14:23
Speaker
the fire service has contributed to your leadership ability.
00:14:27
Speaker
Wouldn't you say? ah Well, it's a team effort. I mean, one of the things I highlighted when I retired was and I'm going to say this a joke. It takes a village. if you don't If you think you're doing everything alone, ah there's people working for you behind your back. There's work people working in front of you, people working beside you. takes a village. But I spin that as a joke is that I'm also the village idiot that everybody's looking for me.
00:14:51
Speaker
ah But I would not have made command. I would not have made fire chief if wasn't for a village or chief master sergeant, if there wasn't a village of people mentoring, growing me, pushing me in the direction when I didn't want to go.
00:15:03
Speaker
Um, you know, it in it's, ah again, I come back to both careers and it was on both sides of the house. And I, you know, you'd also get the frustrating parts. Oh, you're on military this weekend and again. You're never here when I need you to be here. You know, some of that was joking. Some of that was true because it does get frustrating.
00:15:20
Speaker
But, um, you know, one of the things that you put on your, your outline last night when were talking was, what your mentors? My mentors are, are my village. Um, my village is huge. I mean, ah it goes all the way down to a an airman teaching me.
00:15:34
Speaker
I had a, uh, a lieutenant in the national guard, my last recruit school graduation or second, last group graduation. Um, she silenced me, uh, one of our recruits wants you damn good firefighter. But, uh, she, uh, she got a joke on me during the graduation ceremony. And I said, that's the first I got a lieutenant that picked on me in a guard and a military format. But, um, no big things, the village. I mean, there's so many,
00:16:00
Speaker
Yeah, we can talk about how I acted for six months as command chief, and um in but I went right to the group SELs and said, what are you guys doing? why Why are you making me do it? And it was purposeful.
00:16:12
Speaker
they ah One, they didn't want to do it. They didn't want the responsibility. But the other part was is they were also looking down the road because they were towards the end of their careers. And so if it wasn't if it wasn't for so a couple of command chiefs, three command chiefs and three group SELs,
00:16:28
Speaker
Um, I, I would have, I would have never discovered how much I would have enjoyed being a command chief. Um, and that's with everything, the good, the bad and all that. I love that point about being mentored by people, subordinate of you.
00:16:42
Speaker
And I use subordinate in the in the best way possible. Right, they right. yeah know Below you in the hierarchy. but um And it's so true. And I think the point really worth taking away there is that if you are subordinate to – if you are a subordinate, you know, and um I think we're all subordinate in some regard. Everybody has a boss.
00:16:58
Speaker
Understand the influence that you could potentially have on people, right? And you can you can be a subordinate leader. you know i've I've heard it talked about a lot, you know, just through your actions.
00:17:09
Speaker
ah through how you conduct yourself day to day, through how you speak, through how much you prepare and train and learn. You can be a leader no matter where you are and you can influence the people above you.
00:17:21
Speaker
So I really love that point. well and And it comes back to followership. and where I learned about followership in 1989 while i was at tech school. Of course, I was in the Army, so it was advanced individual training at Shunut Air Force Base.
00:17:36
Speaker
And it was a Saturday morning training. we and we were talking We were talking about leadership in the Army, and they had the be-no-do attributes. And it's, you know, be dedicated.
00:17:46
Speaker
But the thing that always stuck up was followership. And, you know, just being a follower. I'm not saying you just be a a follower. you You're not taking initiative. You're not taking charge of things. Followership is um you know your boss is about to have to do something, and you're one step ahead. And you're trying to take care of that. So that boss, it opens it up.
00:18:05
Speaker
So that boss supervisor um has more opportunity to handle other things. And it's building trust. um if you're If you're being proactive, um you're're you're helping the mission, you're helping the individual get to work whatever that mission is, whatever that individual is doing. But you don't have to be supervised. You're not going to be micromanaged if you're practicing good followership.
00:18:28
Speaker
homem You know, and it's active it's active participation when comes down being proactive. Yeah, what an excellent point. And it's funny that you bring that up because we actually we receive received some messages on, yeah we love that you talk about this, but could you talk about this? And one of those things is followership and like,
00:18:46
Speaker
I think for the younger crowd out there, there is a appetite to to hear about followership versus leadership. And I, I love that that person messaged us that. And I love that you bring it up because I think it's such an important and not talked about enough topic. How do you be a good follower?
00:19:04
Speaker
Like, let's not talk about leader, but let's talk about followership. And really, I think that they're kind of one in the same. Like I had mentioned, you could lead from the bottom and that's,
00:19:16
Speaker
That's understanding and anticipating the needs of your leader, your organization, doing the things that you know you're supposed to do before somebody has to tell you to do it. you know those kind of Knowing what you're supposed to do in regard to standing operating procedures or whatever the case, there's just so much that goes in into be going to being a good follower. And I think that that actually makes you a good leader eventually down the line when you do get promoted. Yeah.
00:19:39
Speaker
Yes. and And it's not just tied to the military either. It's tied across the board. um You know, some people might say, oh, you you're just kissing tail. No, it's not. It's understanding that. It's a good member of the team, right?
00:19:54
Speaker
Yeah. It's teamwork. I mean, it comes down in teamwork. You know, my civilian job, we have four areas that you can be ah in our evaluation. product You can be a role model, firewall five. Um, you know, do, you know, whether it comes to mission and all that, but if you're not a good team player, you're not going to get beyond a medium range of, uh, evaluation because we know firefighting is a team effort.
00:20:16
Speaker
Well, doing the stuff back in the station, the non emergency response stuff is teamwork as well. Is your check, is your truck checked off? Does your station look clean? Uh, is your uniform squared away?
00:20:27
Speaker
Um, you know, there's a lot a lot of stuff about uniforms, um, you know, morale T-shirts, company T-shirts, and they're good. But if you're not following the basic uniform guidance for your, if you will, your normal uniform, why should we allow you to wear a morale shirt, morale uniform, a T-shirt or something like that? They're important. they There's a lot of unit pride. I get that, company pride. But if we're not following the basics, I think it was ah not Eisenhower, but Patent,
00:20:55
Speaker
um And I'm going to paraphrase this quote. if you can't enforce a uniform standard, how can you enforce somebody having to die taking the hill? And that's very paraphrased. But Patton was huge on uniform, even in the combat area. Yes. But it was just. If you can't do the small thing right. There you go. do we expect you to do the big things right? Yes.
00:21:13
Speaker
So. I love that point. Well, 30-plus year career, both Air Force and civilian side, there's a whole lot there and we've already kind of started talking about it a little bit. You'd brought up followership in our conversation prior to signing on this morning. You brought up character, integrity. There's so much there that I'd like to get into. Okay. So let's just dive into it. Yeah, biggest kind of those leadership lessons that that you want to highlight from your 30-plus years.
00:21:42
Speaker
So, you know, ah yeah no character, we already talked about followership quite a bit. um So characters. So my previous boss, my fire chief, Chief Williams, I've worked for him directly. i was thinking about this this morning.
00:21:56
Speaker
Until yesterday with my evaluation, I've had the same supervisor prior to that for approximately 20 years, if not 21 years. So I got a brand new evaluation process. I got to like figure that one out. Not bad, not difficult. I just, it's different.
00:22:11
Speaker
But one of the things he said, he told me many years ago, and I've never forgotten his character. You will see a person's character when they do not get something they wanted or working for. Um, now that does not mean you don't get to feel disappointed. Does not mean you have a mourning period, if you will.
00:22:27
Speaker
Um, but it's how you bounce back, how you pivot. Um, you know, you're going to have to, you got to get back into the mission or, or, or do you want to quit? I mean, do you feel you, you've, you've achieved, you've peaked and you want to go through there, but, You'll understand somebody's character, how they act and how they act towards the person that got what you wanted, received what you wanted, um how they act with their peers, how they act for their bosses. ah Granted, you know it's not easy not getting it, but it sets you up and here it ties back to followership. Okay, I didn't get what I wanted.
00:23:00
Speaker
One, what did I do not to get it? You know, was it something wrong? Was I not? um broad enough in in my skills was I just tunnel vision on just being a firefighter. you know, when you get to the fire chief position, it's very, it's ah in my city, it's a point.
00:23:16
Speaker
City manager selects and then it's voted on by the city commission. So I was talking to a previous commander he used to work for me. He was asking about the process. And I said, well, sir, it's just like when you went to become a general, Congress has to approve you being a general. It's the same thing at the local level and every fire department is different. It's an appointment. You can get selected And then the the local governing party says, you know, no, we're not going to vote you in.
00:23:39
Speaker
Now, that didn't happen to me, um which is what started me reaching out to you. But beauty you have to be prepared. are you going focus? What's your character?
00:23:50
Speaker
Please understand you have the mourning period. You can be disappointed. i can tell you a story. When I kate when i finally came home after i was told no, I had to listen to my wife. She was mad. She was madder than I was. you know But all all all in good thing. She cares about you and you know she thinks that you're the best, right? so Yeah. and um so But you you still, you got to focus on the mission. the mission And you know that mission includes taking care of your people, includes setting the proper example.
00:24:25
Speaker
for you people. You know i have a training division. I have the biggest training division my department's ever had with seven people in it. And, you know you're setting example because guess what? They're building next generation of firefighters.
00:24:35
Speaker
And if you set that wrong example outside your mourning period, et cetera, they're going to remember that. and that could reflect in their teaching to the next generation of firefighters for the department.
00:24:47
Speaker
So that was, it was, You know, that that character stoods out stands out because you got to be humble. you got You have to know humility. You know, there's that saying in the fire service, you're either humble or you're going to be humbled.
00:25:00
Speaker
I don't think that was me because I had a backup plan for, okay, if I don't get this, what's next? And I think ah tying down into my outline, that gets tied in, where are you at in your career, your point of view in your career at that time?
00:25:14
Speaker
Do I want to stay? Do I want to retire? ah Do I want to transition out? Or is there another step? You know, and you know you go, oh, you can go to another department. You're right, I can, but I can't go too far because I've got a grandchild now.
00:25:28
Speaker
um My wife works here and she's got a lot of work she has to do here. So You know, that might that option's not there where I'm at in my life, in my career. So that's where the character comes in. And you've got to have, you've got to be able to recover. You've got to be able to pivot quickly and ah seek solutions. um ah You know, I'll tell you what, after I was not selected, and know I'm getting ahead, but that's on the day after, i did my normal Friday afternoon thing at a local watering hole and
00:25:59
Speaker
There was the city manager who didn't pick me and we had a beer together. And, you know the the old outgoing boss was there and I wasn't going to bring it up. I said, we move, you know, Hey, we, we still got to put out fires. We still got respond to Mrs. Smith and go from there.
00:26:12
Speaker
Yeah. That's a tough ah man that's a tough but pill to swallow, and I love that you're talking about it being candid about it. And there's a couple points I want to highlight. There's a lot that we could unpack there and that I would love to, but there's a couple things that I would like to hit on. And with your tenure and and how much experience that you have in both you know the civilian and the military side, the one thing that's – not really talked about that I think is important to talk about is your likability.
00:26:42
Speaker
And you had mentioned you had talked to the general about being appointed to that position. And when you get up to these executive level positions, there's an element, of course, your resume is important. Your what you have accomplished in your career up to that point, your professional career and the kind of educate all those different things. All those variabilities are important and they contribute to your promotion potential. But there's an element of likability, too.
00:27:09
Speaker
The city manager or the hiring official has to like you or because there has to be a good working relationship there, right? You can't, you have to be kind of on the same, a similar wavelength.
00:27:24
Speaker
um Can you talk to us about that likability and how, I guess, without kissing, but right. How do we, how do we become likable? Yeah.
00:27:38
Speaker
for those people. So I haven't even framed how to think about that. to have to work my way through this. That's okay. Yeah. I'm kind of putting it on the spot. No, that's okay. Well, this is good stuff because it makes us think and we grow. Um, I think the key is being professional and it depends on, um, where you're at in your career.
00:28:01
Speaker
Um, my military career, my reserve career, there was a lot I was doing and it pulled me away from the city. So maybe I'm not making all the events because at some time I got to spend time with my family. And I think he did an episode where you're talking about life balance.
00:28:16
Speaker
Yeah. The work life balance, but it's also making sure, Hey, it's not just about firefighting. It's not just about emergency response. You know, when you start climbing the ladder on the military side, it's the same thing. If I go up to the mission support group, it's not just about fire and CE and EOD. It's also about, uh, uh, dang it, for support FSS. It's about what's going on with calm. And you have to be brought and you have to get into those things. And you have to get a little bit in the weeds because you know, fire protection. One of the toughest things for me as a command chief, and I learned this from a previous, another command chief that was a fire chief.
00:28:53
Speaker
prior was you can't go visit your your boys and your gals in the fire department all the time because it go look like you're just focused on one thing so i say that getting into the city it's the same thing what's going on what the impacts to your fire department that you have to educate you have to be out in the public um you have to talk to maintenance school good lord knows how much we deal with maintenance issues with fire trucks um you have to, you're going to be talking to your personnel department, whether it's FSS or A1, whatever you want to call it.
00:29:24
Speaker
um There's reasons why they maintain the rules they they maintain because um one, they're trying to take care of everybody, the human aspect, the human resource aspect, but there's also federal laws out there that we have to follow. um So you have to have that, the likability is putting your face out there and meeting and greeting people and understanding what their mission is. You might not like them, you might not want to be able to go i have a beer with them, but you still have to meet with them. So it's not just a, um, subject matter expert. It's the broad range of how do you deal with people? How do you deal with customer, customer service? Um, but it's the internal stakeholders and it's the external stakeholders.
00:30:03
Speaker
Um, you, you know, I, I've been that young firefighter full of vinegar and other stuff and probably opened my mouth one too many times.
00:30:14
Speaker
Um, but I also, ah I'm not just going to be a yes man either. So what's that balance? You know, you you've got to, you know, I had a command chief once tell me, one of one of my mentors, Chief Michael Soudis, K2, he said, you always have three butt sirs or three butt mams.
00:30:31
Speaker
You know, you're in the closed door, something's coming out, they want to do something, but sir, have you thought of, no, but sir, at the third time, the door opens up and now you're going to be on the same sheet of music. You've done that defense. Well, lot of people don't see that defense and think, oh, you just caked.
00:30:44
Speaker
No, you haven't been sitting in my office be going through it or going back and forth or you don't know what the other environmental issues are because there's so many things. When you get to those, as you said, executive levels, there's a lot playing than just whether engine two beat you to the fire ah than engine one. You know, it's not that. It's,
00:31:01
Speaker
Hey, we got maintenance issues. And, you know, there are other apparatus in the sea that costs more than fire trucks. We don't like to em admit that, but there are other stuff that's out there. So you have to be that. It's a team player.
00:31:12
Speaker
um And it's it gets into that. So the likability is getting yourself exposed and meeting those other people. And, you know, it's a two-way street too. they They need to be able to talk to you and and come to you and understand your issues. And only way you're going to do that you know, you get into communications.
00:31:29
Speaker
Yeah, a lot of lot there. And I i know i put you on the spot there. but ah I think it's important point to, to think about and consider right when you, maybe when you don't get selected. So when you're and again, we're getting ahead of ourselves here. If, uh, if you're not, if you're not getting what you want in an organization, let's just say that maybe it's not even promotion. Maybe that's just, nobody's listening to you. Nobody's taking your advice on point the hose load on the engine or whatever.
00:31:56
Speaker
yeah It's your likability is an important element. Um, And well I think the the foundation of it is how you treat other people and the relationships that you build and foster across time. And it's not always about caving, like you said.
00:32:11
Speaker
It's also not about getting your way every time. you know there's there's a There's got to be a healthy balance because this is a collaborative effort. This is a team organization. This isn't an individual organization. So you may not see and understand those variabilities the that are executive level or you may not understand it from somebody else's perspective. So you have to understand that you could be wrong.
00:32:35
Speaker
and And so, yeah yeah. How many of us want to admit when they're wrong? And it's really hard to do and ego is a powerful thing, a dangerous thing. But if you can have some self-awareness and say, i could be wrong here.
00:32:47
Speaker
I'm going to say my point. i'm going to say my piece because I believe strongly in this. But let me also hear out other perspectives too. And that goes for leaders. That goes for peers. That goes for subordinates. You're listening to everybody. You're taking in all of it.
00:33:01
Speaker
Now, of course, not an emergency, right? and And not in emergency situations all the time. Yeah, you want to consider inputs on emergency. But if... if If we're talking about um someone's life hanging in the balance and we need to make a decision now, you know, that's a different circumstance and that's not what we're talking about, you know, kind of day to day um operational.
00:33:23
Speaker
Well, it's different leadership styles at at different moments. yeah I mean, you see that military operations, you see it on fire ground operations. It's there's a time where we can cuss and discuss, hey, we're going to do training. That's why you do training. That's why you have tabletop discussions. Well, what about this? You know, ah but when it gets to your on scene, you make that decision.
00:33:42
Speaker
It still might be a wrong decision, but if you sit there and hem and haw too long, that's worse than saying, hey, go do this. Because if at least you do the wrong thing, you're going to figure it out and go, okay, we need to fall back, punt, and come up with a plan B and C. And two other things I want to, ah that that you talked about likability. Likability is probably more so trust.
00:34:02
Speaker
You're building trust in Um, they don't necessarily have to like you, but they, they, you know, you do got to earn their trust. And then the other thing, uh, and then the other thing is leadership is a verb and leadership is a noun.
00:34:15
Speaker
You know, we often say in the military with leadership has said, well, that's the, that's the noun version of that's the position. But the verb position is doing what you just talked about, getting out, talking to people, uh,
00:34:27
Speaker
trying stuff, listening to people, that that's the verb of leadership or, or, or being a leader is it's the action, you know, it's action take there, is you know, there's times where leadership has said, it's one of those important things that, Hey, we got to do what leadership told us to do.
00:34:42
Speaker
Um, but the other thing is now you got to go back and sell it. And now you're doing the verb portion of it. Um, and sometimes that's hard to do when you don't ah really agree with it. Um, and that's, that's here, here comes your character and now let's, let's roll into integrity. which was our first core value. home You know, but integrity is a two-way street.
00:35:03
Speaker
And, um you know, I probably i said when in my interview, when I closed out my interview, I said, hey, umm I'm going be here for the transition because we knew this year was going to be a huge transition in my department. You got a fire chief exiting after being the fire chief for 19 years. We had a new city commission.
00:35:18
Speaker
We had a pile of construction projects that are ongoing downtown, which is is pulling money. but it's a long-term investment playing playing that game. We got a very young department, 50% of the department is under five years experience.
00:35:30
Speaker
um And so we knew this was going, we we swapped budget process. Normally we're a two-year budget. We only went to a one-year budget to fix fix some things down the road. We're going do one year temporarily, then go to two-year. All that added in. So 2026 for the Dothan Firepower is a transition period.
00:35:46
Speaker
And that was the mentality I went into it. So Uh, the integrity was, well, no matter what, who's selected for fire chief, there was three of us and we all had the same chance to get there was next year's transition. I'll be here for the transition.
00:36:02
Speaker
Um, and then, you know, make that through. So the team effort I said there, so if I said that at closing out my interview, my responsibilities, I had to hold to that when I got told I didn't get the position. and now I got to show it because, you know, words are words, actions are more but impactful,
00:36:18
Speaker
And, you know, that then learn from it. So that that's where the integrity comes in. But my first meeting with the new fire chief um was he understood that at any time I can retire. He said any time or something came along, or like maybe a teaching opportunity or maybe another fire department came over He understood that and he didn't describe it this way, but my time is limited to a point where if something comes along, he's going to be prepared for me to roll out.
00:36:45
Speaker
part of that transition is, okay, what what are we doing for career succession? Who are we going to bring up into the levels and all that? So the, the, the mission focus that I, I believe I was put there for that reason is I'm, I guess I'm the transition guy for this, for this area.
00:37:02
Speaker
Uh, so now I got integrity. So the integrity was returning back to me. Hey, if something comes along, don't you dare hold yourself back, chief, go ahead and grasp it and I'll support you. So I think There's where a strong team thing grew was the integrity is two way.
00:37:16
Speaker
um I owe integrity to what I say, but the integrity has to come back from the organization, whatever it is, and that person as well. Yeah, great points, Chief. And you brought up ego as well. And I love talking about ego and how...
00:37:32
Speaker
just how it impacts you as an individual and how it impacts the team dynamics. So, and you talked about Brunacini and I don't remember, I i see that you brought him up once before, you know, talking about Mr. and Mrs. Smith, you know, so I could see that you're a student of, uh, Alan Brunacini.
00:37:47
Speaker
What did he talk about with ego? I mean, his, his saying was egos eat brains. Um, now as firefighters, um, being military, whether you're military fire student firefighter, I want aggressive. I want,
00:38:00
Speaker
I want some firefighters with cockiness because I think that goes along with the job. um One of the things I learned as a paramedic is dose is the poison. You can have too much ego and it's going to hurt you.
00:38:13
Speaker
You don't have enough, it's going to hurt you. You've got gotta to you gotta figure out what that is. But too much of anything is bad for you. Too much water, even too much oxygen can kill you.
00:38:23
Speaker
um So that's where it goes. in there, um, is what he was saying. If, and this was part of, if I remember the story correctly, when they were building incident command, um, a lot of times there was no incident command because we had to wait for a chief officer to get there.
00:38:39
Speaker
And it was all about the rank. It wasn't about the position of doing the stuff at the incident scene. Um, so, you know, that's how, a part of how the incident command system he, he grew up drew is that the first person who's there, whether it's a company officer Um, we even teach our recruits. If you come up on a scene, you're establishing command. So we can have a red shirt, less than one year guy. and they come up, they're running supplies for a station and they come up on a wreck and they get on radio. They, they establish command. Now it's not going to be the same level as a battalion chief. We get that, but we started at the young level.
00:39:14
Speaker
So it grows and becomes natural. Um, uh, later on down the road when you have the big incidents, but, um, you know, I, I know I've got an ego, um,
00:39:25
Speaker
You know, and I like to brag when we do do well, but the tough part is having to brag when you don't do well either. I mean, you you have here here we go, we go back in the character and why these three wrap up is you got to have your humility.
00:39:37
Speaker
But, you know, Dr. Rick Rigsby, one of the things I share with the recruits when I talk about leadership is I show his video and it's based on his book, ah Wisdom of Third Grade Dropout. And he talks about ego as it's the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity.
00:39:52
Speaker
Too much ego is going to lead you to do some stupid stuff. Uh, now there's times you've got to make decisions. You're going to you've got to risk. know, we can go back into risk a lot, save a lot.
00:40:03
Speaker
Um, you know and that's that administrative risk, not that incident risk. But, um, you know, if you think you can do everything because you're assigned a specific, uh, station only do a specific thing, that ego is going to slap you right in the face and it's going to hurt.
00:40:16
Speaker
And you better be prepared to be humble. Um, and then, uh, the other thing about ego is a former sex state Powell, who would be a mentor of mine, uh, not a personal mentor, but he, in his leadership primer from years ago, he said, never let your ego get so close to your position that when your position goes, your ego goes with it.
00:40:36
Speaker
So if you don't get that position you want, um, is that, is that, is that the only path you have? Is that the only thing you were planning to do? You did not have a backup plan. Well, you're, if your ego's hurt, you're going to hurt in that position as well.
00:40:49
Speaker
And those those three things revolve around, bounce around between my ears. You'd mentioned you have an ego. And I think, you know, like we all do, obviously. And you should, as you've mentioned, you should have a balance and in that ego, right? You should have confidence in that.
00:41:07
Speaker
your position and your ability within that position and day to day, don't know, capabilities, right? You, I mean, you went to EFO, you have 30 years of experience. You were a command chief, like there's an element of, okay, I know what I'm doing to a degree, right? But it doesn't mean not going listen to doesn't mean I'm going to let my ego get hold me. But I think that's an important point is to, it's okay to have an ego, but you have to balance that out.
00:41:32
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, yeah i mean If I knew everything, I wouldn't be sitting here. Um, there's, there's stuff I've forgotten. There's stuff you need, you know, um, you get a question about something and gotta, you know what, Hey, you're doing it in the street right now. What are we doing? You know, you do have to ask questions. That's again, we come back to the village. It's all, everything's all cyclic when it comes to leadership.
00:41:55
Speaker
Um, Hey, you know how do you do this? How how am going to do you You can't, you can't be too proud. Um, have pride in your job, have pride in yourself, but you can't, I mean, if you're you're too proud to ask airman snuffy, Hey, can you help me with this? Or how do you do this?
00:42:11
Speaker
Um, you're not leading and then you're not, you're not practicing followership either because the subject matter expertise, your subject matter expertise does change as you go through your career. There's the task stuff. There's the tactical stuff. There's a strategy. Now going to have an operating understanding of it, but am I going to be the subject matter expert?
00:42:31
Speaker
For, you know, I'm a paramedic. I don't start IVs on a regular basis anymore. Have IV catheters changed? Yeah, they have. So, you know you know, I'm not doing 100% of my sticks, if you will.
00:42:45
Speaker
um But again, if i'm doing if I'm practicing patient care, something else is wrong. and We're either super busy or um it just falls like I don't carry an ALS bag in my vehicle. So, um you know, but that's that's what and all it all ties together.
00:43:02
Speaker
There's one thing that you said too is in regard to the position, I want to say you said Colin Powell, is that what you said? Who you brought up? Yeah. And not tying your identity to a position or your, you know, the position they potentially could have or or even the position that you have.
00:43:20
Speaker
I love that point. I love when it's brought up is there's the, there's a story about a I want to say secretary, of defense secretary of state, something going to a conference and having the,
00:43:33
Speaker
the luck the luxury treatment, you know, somebody greeting you at the car, greeting you at the door, handing you the cup of coffee, going up for your keynote speech. and I can't remember who had made this, who who talked about this, but I want to say was some kind of secretary of state. And then he came back the following year he He got his own hotel. He took the taxi to the event, and he asked where the coffee was, and somebody pointed to the coffee, and he drank his coffee out of the styrofoam cup, and he gave a speech at that same event a year later, but because he wasn't in the position he was the year prior, he was treated differently.
00:44:05
Speaker
know the story. I just can't figure out It's such a great message to not tie your identity to the position that you're in, right? You... you are not the position that you're in, right? The position is the position. And right there's it's very easy and intoxicating, right? yeah I think fire chief is a great example or any kind of chief level officer, even company officer in some cases.
00:44:26
Speaker
it's it's It's easy to tie your identity to that position, right? But when you're not in that position, that's you know it's important to be your own self. I don't know how to best encapsulate that, but I thought that was a great story.
00:44:41
Speaker
Well, tell this story. I realized this one day. i was a senior master sergeant. ah It was the Friday before a drill. My promotion date to chief was the following morning.
00:44:54
Speaker
So yeah the first was that Saturday. So I walked in, FSS, you know, there was line, signed in, did my thing, sat down, waited, got treated and all that. And I remember yeah there was an interaction with somebody at the desk and said, hey, senior, if you'll just go ahead sit down, look, we'll line.
00:45:09
Speaker
The next morning I walk in, my chief stripe is on and I got moved immediately to the front of the line. And I was like, no, I said, I'm going to sit down with everybody else. And I was like, I was just in here, not even 24 hours ago.
00:45:23
Speaker
And because you add I added a stripe and I guess that's personal position, but I didn't like it. That was, that was difficult. And, um,
00:45:34
Speaker
you know, I went talk, I went over to talk to the chief and said, listen, I appreciate it. now there are times that stuff has to be escalated or it has to move quicker.
00:45:45
Speaker
i get that, but that should be a conversation with the SEL prior and you walk in and say, Hey, can you help me out? And don't do that in front of other people because that hurts. I mean, i don't I don't care who you are. I mean, we had retirees in there getting their ID card and all that. And I got moved to the front of the line while I appreciate And I understand it at the same time, you know,
00:46:04
Speaker
I knew I was going to FSS. I was going to be there for an X amount of time. if You know, I accepted that, except how our our mission worked. But, um you know, if I need to be expedited, I'm picking up the phone and calling a commander or calling a chief and saying, hey, I i need some help here.
00:46:19
Speaker
Can you help me out? And do that and the on the backside. And, you know, but I'll say this. If you go and ask and they tell the chief we're stuck, most of the time they're going to make it work. Um, no matter what, but you know, if they sit there and there's a speed bump, you know, be humble enough, say, okay, let me call you back at a later time. And, uh, you know, there's, there's i had a good group SEL tell me once, sometimes we need to be better customers.
00:46:43
Speaker
Um, when we come in, when we're doing appointments, I mean, don't give me, everybody's going to a part, but sometimes we need to be a better customer versus having better customer service. Great voice, Chief. And ah we talked a bit ahead of this and I'd ask you or I'd wrote down, you know, so for you to share some of the most impactful, I guess, moments or experiences throughout your career thus far.
00:47:07
Speaker
And I think I shared that with you, correct? well You did. I'm looking at right now. Oh, are you? Okay. I don't know if you had an opportunity to, yeah, to think that over. because Okay, cool. Yeah. Let's get into that. You know, what are some of the most impactful moments for you?
00:47:19
Speaker
I think, uh, seeing airmen and firemen succeed will be the first one, whether I had a role in it or not. Um, there's, uh, I like having roles and seeing people succeed. Um, so a couple stories, uh, when I was acting command chief, uh, the first thing I had to do was to remove my first sergeant from my squadron from the position because of something that gone on off duty.
00:47:42
Speaker
My squad, you couldn't have timed it, make it any better. Went through that process. Um, there was some, I had to get another chief involved because her first, quote the person impacted was, is he talking to me is as the fire chief or is he talking to me as the command chief, acting command chief? And so we got we got another chief involved.
00:48:05
Speaker
Story was when I came back as command chief, she fixed what she had to fix and graduated from the first sergeant academy. So um that person had something that had gone wrong.
00:48:18
Speaker
addressed it, fixed it, had some growth period. And we wanted to focus on making sure it just wasn't a one-time mess up. Now, first sergeants, you got to be very careful. We took a risk, um or the risk was taken before I came back as command chief.
00:48:31
Speaker
But I made sure I was at her graduation and we're talking about, and she was an award recipient. And ah talked about said, see how far you came. It was about three years.
00:48:42
Speaker
And I'm glad we stuck to our guns on that. We just didn't make that one mistake. you have that one mistake and it ends your career, but she succeeded. um But got to have a Air Force Reserve Command Senior Airman of the Year from my wing.
00:48:58
Speaker
And, you know, a lot of other people did the writing. I did all the fine-tuning at at NAF and AFRC level, making sure everything worked and getting the processing right, fine-tuning her package to get, had that. That was a huge success. um You know, watching them grow.
00:49:15
Speaker
The other thing I'll say and I was thinking about this this morning because I had forgotten about it, is we had ah had a message one day come down. I was fire chief back in 2013, and it was a message from AFSISA asking a support for an EOD class.
00:49:31
Speaker
Normally, pararescue supported it, But they could not, for some reason, know budgetary schedule, training schedule. So pararescue couldn't support. this is that just went out Air Force-wide. This wasn't just the reserve.
00:49:41
Speaker
And they needed people that were rope rescue trained in EMT basics to support an EOD class at the Marine Corps World Warfare Center in California. So I picked up the phone. and I called the ARC, the air reserve technician. I said, hey, can we support this?
00:49:55
Speaker
and she and she And she said, well, let's try. all right. So I put the message out to my assistant chiefs. I said, this is what I need. Uh, and I wanted to go myself. i was a medic. i was I was a rope instructor, but I couldn't cause of the civilian job.
00:50:08
Speaker
Um, but I had three guys volunteer immediately. We got notified on Sunday. We deployed them that following Saturday. And they were out there for two weeks supporting that mission. And it even got to the point, we had to bring our own medical gear. And as you know, a lot of fire departments, and this was the transition of, hey, we're going away from EMT basics and fire protection. we're going to keep them the war between Surgeon General and the Civil Engineer and all that.
00:50:33
Speaker
So... We went to a med squad. Hey, what do you got for stuff that we can deploy with? Well, my medical squadron was more prepared for do mission was prepping people to deploy, go out the door during drills. They weren't really a deploy. They could individually deploy, but they didn't deploy as squadron. So they had limited stuff. So I said, okay.
00:50:51
Speaker
So I picked up the phone. and I called my boss. I said, Hey chief, this is a Pete Webb fire chief from the nine 19th. I need it. I need to talk to you about some mutual aid support. He's like, Pete, what are you talking about? So explained the whole thing.
00:51:02
Speaker
So he goes, good logistics, build you a trauma bag, take whatever you need. This is our mutual aid agreement. So I said, okay, so we built. so six So in six days, we deployed three people. um they didn't have They didn't have anybody get hurt, but they were able to participate in the training and grow it. um one want The tech sergeant that went, Jimmy Akel, he got on the cover doing an Austrian rappel at the course. And that was that was huge. was just watching them... are them succeed. and And there's a lot more stories. It's probably stories I've forgotten of people succeeding, but that's, that's the impactful in a military and a fire department is, you know, maybe get, you know, on some structure fires, you get that quick knockdown, you get that quick search and you look down, you've only been on scene eight minutes, you know, and that's, that's the stuff you want to see, or you get, you get a spontaneous response of respirations back on a code.
00:51:55
Speaker
Um, That's the stuff. Personally, ah three promotions. I'll say when I promoted the staff sergeant, I became a non-commissioned officer. that That was really important to me because at that point, um it wasn't just mission. It was also taking care of people. We were taking care of people, but when you become an NCO, it becomes very specific to that.
00:52:14
Speaker
Of course, making chief. That was nowhere on my radar when I came out of the Army into the Air Force. um I was hoping to make master sergeant retire. And then command chief, ah because of all the development that went behind and the stories,
00:52:27
Speaker
Um, I was a chief about four months when our command chief was leaving and he had called me wanting to know why I hadn't applied. I'm like, chief, I said, well, I'm about to deploy in about six months. i I've already agreed to that. and I need to do that. I said, too, I've been a chief four months. I've got zero experience right now.
00:52:45
Speaker
But that phone call, that question, why didn't you apply set me up for the next six years? Cause I was, I was happy. I was asked, uh, I'm, you know, what are you doing talking to him? I was the Jeep chief in the wing. I was the junior chief in the wing. And he asked me to do that. I'm like, why is he doing that? He's either maybe, you know, thinking I'm crazy enough to put it in, you know, at that point, the village idiot.
00:53:06
Speaker
But that it's, that's, it's the small stuff that adds up to the big stuff. And, you know, though, my, my service is all tied that, um, you know, those, those successes.
00:53:19
Speaker
Yeah, appreciate you sharing those, Chief. and it's It's funny what's important to you when you're a younger troop versus what's important to you when you're older. little bit more seasoned, right? and I yeah went through that transition myself, and I love that you brought up that transition into the NCO Corps.
00:53:35
Speaker
And if I were to be asked the same question, I would probably bring that up too. That transition is – I feel like it's the – I don't know, it's it's one of the most important of a career.
00:53:48
Speaker
When you are no longer in charge of yourself, but you're in charge of other people and people look to you to make decisions and to lead them in the right direction, right? And that that happens that in the Air Force at the E-5 level and in the fire service.
00:54:00
Speaker
I mean, you're you're leading people, I mean, as engineers and as firefighters, but when you cross that threshold into... company officer or station chief or you're in charge of a station a battalion chief time whatever the case and you're in charge of people. it's just such a different experience.
00:54:14
Speaker
um And just so that just, I don't think we get paid enough as NCOs in the Air Force. beyond it It's just such a, you are, and I think I brought this up in a previous episode, but you are your father figure, uncle figure, brother figure, brother figure to America's sons and daughters.
00:54:33
Speaker
You really are. You're getting, 18, 19, 20-year-old kids, fresh out of high school, maybe a couple years of college. And not only are you leading them in in an official professional capacities of firefighters and airmen ah in the Army as a soldier, the Marine, but you are leading them through life and the complexities of that. How do you buy a car? How do you manage your finances? hey you know, I'm having trouble... with my landlord and those different things that you don't even think about. And that all happens when you cross over that threshold.
00:55:04
Speaker
So it's just such a monumental. And I think it's more important today. um We're seeing on the civilian side of the house, ah limited life skills. And when I say life skills, you know, when i grew up, we used to cut grass threes, you know, to get money or we walked to school or we had to manipulate public transportation to get to school.
00:55:25
Speaker
you you're You're talking a 10-year-old, 11-year-old kid getting on public transportation to get to the school because the community I grew up only had a couple school buses. And that was budgetary stuff. So they they gave you a bus pass and you got on the MBTA. You know, it was outside of Boston.
00:55:39
Speaker
That's how you got to school. I think because we want to take care of our kids as we grow up, we want it better for them. Mm-hmm. I think ah we limit some of their life experiences. It's a more sheltered environment.
00:55:51
Speaker
You know, and it and it's tough because i don't i don't want anybody to hurt my child. Right. But at the same time, you know, you you do lose skills or you're not exposed to grow those skills. maybe I shouldn't say you lose it because you might not even have them yet.
00:56:06
Speaker
um There was a study I read a few a few months ago talking about land navigation in the Army. And they're finding because of GPS, Soldiers are or have lost some critical thinking when it comes to land navigation because they're relying on their phone or GPS, and it's tougher to teach them now, which I found interesting that were yeah we've just seen a brain evolve. over ten fifteen years if that's about ai Oh, yeah. Oh, lo that's, you know, yeah I don't want to be the old guy in the room. Right. You know, I don't want to be the guy that's complaining that the motor vehicle is being, being made. And I, I want to stick with my horse, but the critical thinking aspect of that, you're just completely taking away. And what is that going to do to the human experience?
00:56:58
Speaker
i this You're going to lose some skills. You're going to lose some skills and, uh, what, You know, if you, if you really want to do a study, you find a neighborhood and you shut down the internet to that neighborhood to see what people do.
00:57:11
Speaker
And you got to do it for days. Hey, you know, my, my to-do list is on here. My workout plans on my phone or AI or, um, you know, I don't know how to get to so-and-so cause I don't have my GPS. Right.
00:57:22
Speaker
Um, you know, it's just, you know, we talk, you know, you talk about when you grow in leadership, Hey, don't forget where you came from, but where I came from doesn't exist anymore. So, you know, how do you relate to a younger generation with that, with this stuff that you did was not there, is not there anymore because you you do it totally different.
00:57:40
Speaker
Um, but you know, AI, it's a challenge as an instructor, you know, our people, you know, just You can plug in a credit. You know I've used AI. there's There's times I've gotten stuck. I said, okay, look, I need some help. Let me, let me put this through. And like, for what one of the things we're doing, is we're building an officer academy.
00:57:56
Speaker
And, uh, yeah, I said, okay, what's chat GPT going pull up? I put in my parameters. I put in some area I wanted to do. And it brought up some accurate stuff, but you got to double check that because that stuff is not a hundred percent correct either.
00:58:09
Speaker
Um, so you still have to do that. You still have research skills. I mean, you're going through EFO, um, and and doing all that research and how AI works. You have to be careful. It's a good tool. Again, everything's a tool.
00:58:19
Speaker
It's just how much you're rely on how much you're going use it. Yeah, you really have to be disciplined in how you how you use it. Because I'm of the thinking. i don't want to I don't want to lose that critical thinking capability. like I want things to be hard to a degree because I know that that's important to my growth, right? And so I've made it a point to not not let it write it for me, if that makes sense. Yep, uh-huh.
00:58:44
Speaker
what I'll do is I'll write it, everything out. I'll, I'll do my writing without the aid of any technology other than a word processing document. You know what i mean Like, right um, and then I'll run it through the gonculator. Like, okay, where am i making mistakes in here? Where am I misspelling? Where's my grammatical, my grammatical mistakes at where am I off and how it sounds? You know what i mean? Like,
00:59:09
Speaker
that's That's kind of how I'll apply it. um And we've we've actually been given instruction you know because it's ah an emerging technology that you just can't keep people from using. And so they've they've actually created rules. And I think a lot of college institutions do the same thing. I'm sure Columbia Southern has. you know I like to say fortunately for me, I did my graduate degree before AI became a thing.
00:59:31
Speaker
I say fortunately because, and you as well, right, but now you're a the doctoral student because I, you know, I had to critically think to write it. There was no really easy button for me. And so, but I think you just have to be disciplined with it now is the way to approach it.
00:59:45
Speaker
but As with any tool. I mean, if we, um you know, how long, I mean, I've seen it, you've you've seen some of those stories from Japan, you know, how long before we were throwing robots inside to take care of fires?
00:59:59
Speaker
how long before we have to really consider it because of the cancer risk? Sure. Um, you know, I, I mean, don't give, ah I want to be an interior, fighter I still want to be an interior firefighter. I'll, I always want that.
01:00:13
Speaker
Um, but you know, at one point you get some, at one point you're go have a city manager or mayor say, you know, we're, we're not doing this anymore cause we don't want to pay the, pay the bills after the fact.
01:00:25
Speaker
Um, you know, we do that and that, that will, that will be huge. But, Um, you know, again, another broom of seniorism, um, two things firefighters don't like is change and how the things are, are currently. So, um, you know, is there a right tool with it?
01:00:40
Speaker
But, you know, the, the other thing I saw in my career when we started seeing some generational changes is I talked about how bedrooms at fire stations changed through my career.
01:00:51
Speaker
When I first came in, everybody was in an open bay. In fact, my time at Station 1 at Fort Ruck and everything was open bay except for the station captain the AC on duty. They had their own bedrooms. Actually, no, they didn't. They shared a bedroom. So they were still in there.
01:01:06
Speaker
So then um when I was in the Army in Germany, I would go up to Rhein-Main Air Base when it was still open. And I would train with the Air Force fire guys there and I'd stay over a shift. We weren't in an open bay. We were in a like a three-bedroom division. So you'd have three people. So it wasn't everybody in there.
01:01:25
Speaker
9-11, I get activated to Herbert Field. course, my my civilian department, we're all open bay. And of course, it's only three people. Captain has his own corps, it's three people in a station, less a ladder trucks there, and may be seven or eight at the most. So not that many in a bay.
01:01:38
Speaker
But I get to Herbert Field and everybody has their own room and everybody's room has TV. um So at four o'clock, when downtime came along, everybody disappeared. Nobody was in the day room.
01:01:51
Speaker
trying to figure out how to watch the one TV channel or what show they're watch. Was it going to be the fight? Was it going to be this movie? um And you had to practice your people skills with day-to-day stuff. Well, because we're giving people their own space, not a bad thing, but the dose is the poison. If they're doing it all the time and not learning to be with people outside of work, you know fire stations are different. You live there.
01:02:12
Speaker
You don't just work there. ah Is that a foul? You know, I had some captains here in Dothan said, you might not eat the same food of us, but you're going to eat dinner when we eat dinner. You're not going to eat by yourself. I like that rule.
01:02:25
Speaker
You know, and, and, and, you know, some people did it. Some people, know, you're to have your people fight. It's just like paying the coffee fund. Well, I don't drink coffee. I'm not going pay it, but they would still want use the ketchup, the mustard and say, Hey buddy, you got to pay. But, but that was a people skill.
01:02:36
Speaker
That was how, Hey, let me explain it to you. Um, I didn't care. Our coffee fund was, so you know, three bucks on a pay period. it was it Here, let me pay you a month. You'll always have a guy fight at the... Yeah, but it's the small things. those so Those are social skills that we lose with technology. Well, yeah, our companions are our phones now.
01:02:56
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Or video games. Yeah, I mean, i our recruit school, their phones go in a Tupperware box at the end of the table and they can't touch it. There's certain breaks that the instructors won't even let them touch it. They'll them wait till lunch. know lot of schools grade schools.
01:03:08
Speaker
Yep. Yeah, they ah they just passed a law here in Dothan about that. They used to allow them. Now they don't want them in the school. You can't even take them to school. They're such a big distraction. Yeah. As helpful well as they can be and as great as they are in connecting to parents in the event of emergency, but they're just such a big distraction. So you can go get them in the event of emergency, but right now, put them away.
01:03:30
Speaker
Well, yeah you know, we had a we had a tornado actually lifted, luckily hit our middle school about 12 months ago. No, less than that. It was last year. And, um, where they kept the phones was impacted. They couldn't get to them right away.
01:03:45
Speaker
So it added to the chaos, but you have parents now that are not used to not having their phones either. That is the only way they communicate.
01:03:56
Speaker
Uh, and so it, it's something we have to adapt to. Um, don't want to. ah honestly, I don't want, I don't want to adapt to, but you know, there is some, there's goodness with it. It's just difficult.
01:04:08
Speaker
I'm an older guy now. You know, I'm getting set in my ways. I am my grandparents, I guess. Um, you know, now I get it. I get it. Why they, why they were, why they were, but we're also moving a lot quicker than that generation was though, as far as technology. I mean, it,
01:04:21
Speaker
It just bounds so, so quickly. It sure does. Well, chief, I want to give you an opportunity to talk about the professional disappointment. So you applied for a job there within Dothan that you've already brought up. We've kind of talked around it a little bit.
01:04:36
Speaker
Tell us about that experience. There was three people eligible. You were one of them. You went up, you didn't get the job. Walk us through how you went through the grieving process and what you did following it.
01:04:48
Speaker
So, yeah, yeah on Old fire chief was retiring after 19 years. We set it up. home So did the, we had to do preliminary questions, write it, do the research, have that turned in. We got that turned in. That gets reviewed. They set up ah structured interviews. We had two visiting fire chiefs, city manager, personal director, did the interview. We went in there and probably about 45 minutes, get in there.
01:05:10
Speaker
a lot of A lot of the interview questions tied back to the paper, but a lot of yeah some of it didn't, so you had had to work that out. So ah city manager said, hey, I got to go out of town for a week. He said, i apologize for that, but we'll work it. We'll make it work. Now, again, we had to get to the appointment thing. So when we had city commission meetings, that had to get tied in. So the it was about the last week of October, and I have to set the whole stage what was going on. So Um, we went back and forth when we'd be notified who got and whatnot. So we're figuring we still had another week and a half.
01:05:44
Speaker
were going take it to the second, um, commission meeting in November. Well, you know how busy November is veterans day holidays and all that. Well, then they realized, Hey, we need to do a quicker. So, um, we had our fire prevention lunch in that Thursday and, uh, I had a recruit school going on.
01:06:03
Speaker
So I said, okay, I'll do all the cooking. So I got over there and I'm just over there cooking burgers. It's really, really cloudy and we're contemplating whether it's gonna rain or not. So flipping burgers. and I get a text from city manager and say, hey, can you come by my office discreetly?
Personal Reflections on Career Setbacks
01:06:15
Speaker
I'm like, I said, i'm flipping burgers. Yes, sir. I'll be there. So, but I couldn't tell anybody. So i'm like, man, I to get this. So I get all the burgers cooked. You know, we've got them in a warming plate.
01:06:26
Speaker
I say, hey guys, got to run back. I'm admin. I'll be back. So I go there and looking at the time of the day, I kind of felt, I knew walking into his office, I didn't think I had the position.
01:06:38
Speaker
So I get in the position, sit down at the table, um, and, you know, a little chit chat. And then he said, Hey, I'm moving forward. I picked David hasty to be the fire chief. is okay.
01:06:50
Speaker
Uh, he goes, I know how you feel. I've sat in that table and not gotten in a position here in the city before. I said, okay. Um, Got it. um And I had also responded to the I said, hey, if I smell like hamburgers when I walk into your office, please understand this. He goes, nope, I know what you're doing. I've already found out what you're doing. I said, okay, good. So in there, I said, okay, well, I confirmed my, my I said, I'll be there for the transition.
01:07:12
Speaker
um We'll go through there and all that. He said all right. So I left the office. Now, the funny part is when I left the office, the city manager's office is in the commission office there. And we know all the secretary of staff lot.
01:07:25
Speaker
I'm me. I knew I had to get back for burgers, so I left the office in my normal quick stab. A lot of people make fun of me about how I walk, and I move with a purpose. at all I range walk all the time. Well, the secretary has called the fire department secretary, and, hey, it's Pete, all right.
01:07:39
Speaker
i mean, he left here quick, and ah our our admin assistant said, listen, he's doing stuff. He said he'll be all right. He might be upset, but that's his normal walk. Don't worry about that. So I got out to training.
01:07:51
Speaker
Well, as driving back out to training, I called Chief HDSA, and I said, hey, man, congratulations. Um, you know, uh, when can we communicate? Cause my son's in the department and I have my staff to let know. And you, you you have to, the problem, you gotta make sure everybody who doesn't get it knows before the message goes out and it's his message to broadcast.
01:08:12
Speaker
So, uh, he said, yes, call your son, um, and let him know. So as I'm getting back to training, my son's had training that week. He's taking his, aerial operator course. And for some reason, he skipped a lunch, and that's a dad chief thing. But um he went to lunch. Funny story, they don't want to participate.
01:08:31
Speaker
but um So I called him. I said, hey, call me. I said, listen, you can't say anything to anybody at the table. I said, but I did not get the position. And I said, but I'm not telling you who got the position because it's their job to announce it.
01:08:43
Speaker
He said, okay. Then I called my ah my EMS chief who works for me. and I said, hey, I got my staff around. said, did not get the position. Uh, I said, when it comes out, you'll hear from it. I'll let them do the announcement from there. So we do the burgers. And course I didn't have time to mourn because the luncheon included the mayor, the city manager, some of the city commissioners, all leadership the department, the guy that didn't get it, me that didn't get it in, and the new guy that got it. It hadn't been officially announced yet.
01:09:13
Speaker
So the fire chief comes over to me and talks to me. I'm like, yep, I'm good. So, you know, just doing all that, I was i was super busy. well Once that event was done, you know, I called my wife and said, hey, i didn't get it. I told her who got it because she wasn't at work.
01:09:27
Speaker
um But at the next event we had, we had our fire explorers were having their family night that night, and we had to do food prep for that. So I didn't go home until about 7 o'clock, 8 o'clock that night.
01:09:39
Speaker
And, um you know, that's why I told you my wife was mad and i'll upset all that, which I still laugh about. So all that. So I didn't get to sit down and think about it till about eight o'clock that night. So it had been about 10 hours or so. And I was like, all right, so now disappointed. Uh, I let some of my, um, my, uh, my fellow peers, I've got a group of retired command chiefs. I hang out with, I'd i'd let them know they knew i was a class. I didn't get it. And,
01:10:08
Speaker
Uh, I, uh, General Merrill, who, uh, who's the guy i used to, one of the one of the commanders I worked for, I had let him know cause he, he was curious about it. And, you know, i did that and it wasn't, it still wasn't public yet. the The old fire chief's trying to get the city manager to put it out because if it's starting to run like, you know, telephone, telegraph, telefirefighter, if you don't get the message out quick.
01:10:30
Speaker
Uh, so they got the message out, it became official. And, and, and, you know, so, Went through that for a day and, you know, went in, had a face-to-face. And he said, listen, and Chief Hasty is a retired Chief Master Sergeant as well out of the Florida Guard.
01:10:45
Speaker
So the conversation really wasn't a fire chief and a deputy chief. will are a I mean, he was selected. He was not voted on yet. ah So we had to actually wait for that to happen. But it was a chief-to-chief conversation, you know, because, you in you know, in the military, you're going to have chiefs that get positions that you don't are so...
01:11:04
Speaker
I think that the transition with that was easier because no, he was a brother firefighter. He was a brother chief master sergeant too. Uh, and you know, we, we've helped each other for our careers. I mean, he helped me get through senior and NCO course when I struggled years ago as well. So, but, um,
01:11:20
Speaker
So getting through that, you know, you you do have the people. and The toughest part, I think, is when the people come up to you say, hey, man, you would have been our selection for fire chief. And you have you you accept that.
01:11:31
Speaker
But at the same time, you've got to be like, well, you know, please understand the decision that was made was that the city manager said the person he felt best to work with for the future of the city of Dothan was Chief Hastings.
01:11:43
Speaker
So, um... yeah And that was point blank. How can you argue that? Because it it is, as we talked about the likability, we talked about the trust. That's what he felt was best.
01:11:55
Speaker
Got it. You know, ah if you want to sit down and compare resumes, and we touched upon this, I meant to follow up on this, talk about resumes. Resumes. I had a, i will say I had a strong resume.
01:12:06
Speaker
However, the resume only gets you a ticket into the interview. Now you've got to sell your likability. Now you've got to sell your trust. um How do you articulate? I mean, I use the word, um, you've heard it a lot. Um, you know maybe I'm not that good of about blog a presenter.
01:12:22
Speaker
Um, I just said it again. Now I'm going to count it. But so it it came down to that. I got the ticket it into the door. It's my job to sell it. But what was the city manager looking for?
01:12:33
Speaker
You know, and, and so that all that came in there. So And, you know, I will say what with Chief Hasty, I probably before the interviews, before the selection, we talked a lot about where the department needs to go in the future.
01:12:48
Speaker
ah We knew 26. So we were ah we we had a we had a lot of like ideas. And funny thing, interesting that we talked, we each had to pick an incident that went wrong and we had to talk about.
01:12:59
Speaker
And we spoke about the same incident. Now, we didn't talk about that prior to, but in the interview, it came out. and at the end of January 7, 2013, we lost two kids on a fire. but ah But we both talked about what we had learned from that incident, all the stuff that went wrong in that incident.
01:13:14
Speaker
But... um So the next thing I did, you know, talk through, hey, I didn't get it. booffo i just I went into a normal job opportunity. The mission still has to go on. We still got to respond to fires. I was still building a training plan for 2026, you know, trying to get all that through. And so all my, I called them my spitballs, all my notes. I gave up the game. I said, this is what I was thinking if I made fire chief.
01:13:37
Speaker
and You know, let like let's share the information because I'm ah i'm not going hoard anything. So I don't want to hurt it. And, you know, and that's where we're at. So, and then the other thing I did is, um, Then we had to retire the fire chief and then we had to do the badge pinning, which we just did a couple of weeks ago.
01:13:51
Speaker
And I emceed the badge pinning and the swearing in ceremony for him. And what I did is I just threw myself at it. And it wasn't, it still stings. You sit there on the side and you want to be at that podium saying thank you to everybody for selecting me and having, you know, but you're not.
01:14:07
Speaker
So, but, so you just go in there and I just concentrated on the work and maybe that was too much. Maybe that workaholic-ish in hindsight. I'm not sure. But the job was making sure that we were still there for Mrs. Smith, making sure we were there for Firefighter Snuffy, um and then going from there. And it was, um i I did think through the character, the integrity and follow-up. That's when I reached out to you.
01:14:30
Speaker
A part of me was, right, how do I, I don't want to say heal, but how do I grow from this? And sometimes you're not always going to get the positions you apply for. If you do and you go through life and you get every single thing, how much learning are you doing?
01:14:45
Speaker
Um, you know, we only learn, we learn from mistakes. I don't want to say this is to me, this is not a failure. It's just, uh, I didn't succeed. i mean, I think there's a difference. I can run around. Oh, I failed. I failed. Now I'm poor mouth of myself.
01:14:58
Speaker
We can build the environment we live in. We grow from. So, you know, go from there. And it's, uh, honestly, I was given position of choice. I could move to operations as a deputy or I could stay in training. And I said, I've got to go home and think about it. Uh,
01:15:12
Speaker
And, you know, so it's it's not kissing tail. It's following through, but being true to yourself, being true to your family. And you go from there and then, you know what's the next opportunity? And silly me, I decided, you know, I'm just going to go out to get my doctorate degree. Yeah, for sure. I mean, that's, you know. mixed it Yeah. but um But that that's what went through my mind. And and I said, you know, we we do a lot about, hey, how do you succeed? How do to you succeed? Well, how do you come out of not getting what you want?
01:15:42
Speaker
ah you know, you come back to character, integrity, followership and all of, all of the things. So it was like, I was so busy that day. I didn't get a lot of time to think about it. And now I was thrown right into the thick of the mess with the mayor being there and, uh, on that whole event. And, you know, um I didn't want to create a bad environment. So, yeah.
Work-Life Balance and Retirement Plans
01:16:02
Speaker
Well, i appreciate you sharing that chief. And I appreciate the candor because I can sense that you're still kind of going through that process. And I think that, you know, that there's a element of realism there that,
01:16:15
Speaker
I think it's important for people to understand that it's going to hurt. It's going to be painful. This is something care about a lot. This is something that you wanted. is that you would have been great at, that you have the resume for, and it didn't work out. And that's going to happen to all of us.
01:16:28
Speaker
Things aren't always going to work out for us. yeah i did It comes back to ego. i did not need the I did not need the position to be successful in my career. sure I wanted it, but I didn't need it.
01:16:40
Speaker
So I think I had enough of that detachment, if you will, that Um, me not being fire chief ruins my whole career, everything I did in the Dothan fire department.
01:16:53
Speaker
I mean, I'm a retired fire chief. I've got, the you know, so the part that helps is my military service. I achieved that rank of being a ah fire chief. I just didn't get it at Dothan. So that makes it easier for me to come out of it as well. I got to achieve it.
01:17:07
Speaker
Other people might not have got might not have had that opportunity like I do. I think a key point here in your story is that when this failure, when you were faced with, i don't want to call it a failure, let's call it failing forward. I love to use that term. I'll take that. Failures really help you maybe more than successes do in some cases because you just learn so much through that adversity and through that tough circumstance. But through that experience, you...
01:17:34
Speaker
your aim and your focus went towards what was important to the mission, to the community, and not so much yourself. right You still had to be there for the firefighters and for the cadets in the academy and for the community, Mr. Mrs. Smith. And just i think that's probably one of the more important elements to take out of this is that that's where your focus went.
01:17:56
Speaker
And so that it's important to... Yeah, it's important to not be so invested in yourself and as an individual and your ego is, but actually focus on your responsibility and the position that you're in.
01:18:11
Speaker
It comes back to service before self. I mean, you know it's weird how your your core values keep popping up in your life. I mean, it it's kind of it's kind of funny, you know, because, know, i as younger airman,
01:18:25
Speaker
younger soul words and yeah they are but itself doesn't carry meaning it's everything behind the word the integrity and service before self and what does that actually mean like let's go deeper than the surface and and it's different for everybody and it's that that that there there's the diversity that comes into play you're going to receive it differently you're going to share it differently and um it's uh it's ah
01:18:55
Speaker
It comes back to dose versus the poison. i could I could very well go too far too and not worry about myself or or or my family and take it too far. So ah were we're coming back to that work balance life. And, um you know, all all of this stuff does tie in together. And I call it stuff, but it it's it's leadership, whether it's the verb or the noun, it's your core values, it's um your focus and all that. It just, it comes back and it works.
01:19:23
Speaker
I was blind. There's so many complexities to achieve. It's ah it's a lifelong learning process as ah as you shared. So, well, we appreciate you sharing that story, sharing your lessons learned through your leadership journey.
01:19:40
Speaker
Best of luck to you in the future. I mean, I imagine that, I don't know how long you have, what ah what your plans are in terms of your career, but Maybe we'll have you on four years from now and we'll be talking about how you got the fire chief position. You never know. yeah yeah You never know. No, it's kind of funny. I want to, uh, I'd like to retire next to April 1, um, not 26, because I want to retire on April Fool's Day. I don't, you know, that's the, that's the jokester in me. Uh, but, uh, you know, it depends what happens, you know, stuff, stuff can change really quick.
01:20:10
Speaker
Um, but I think 27 is my year. I'll have 30 years with the department. With the way our pension system works, I'll have 40 years invested in the pension because I was able to buy back some active duty time, hazard duty time. So um financially, that might be the smartest thing for me to do and just kick back and teach. And if my doctoral plan works the way I want to, retiring 27 helps me focus on writing my dissertation, finishing my dissertation. And that probably needs to be a full-time process, not just a part-time process. yeah ah And then, you know, of course, I got a grandson, you know.
01:20:41
Speaker
Raising up. And then, you know, i I also feel I need to get out of my son's way. He needs, Dothan Fire Department needs to turn to his fire department, not our fire department. I like the years I've got with him. I contemplated retiring earlier, uh, once he got the job.
01:20:54
Speaker
Um, we had to do some finagling. The only time he's ever reported to me is when he was in the academy. ah But we had a plan that say, hey, if anything pops up positive and or negative, it's got to go to the ops chief, that's now chief H.C., the fire chief.
01:21:06
Speaker
ah So we worked all that out, clarified. Fortunately, didn't have to do anything great with that. al But ah I said earlier, I said the dad and chief thing, there's times I'm dad, there's times I have to call i have to be chief as well.
01:21:20
Speaker
And, you know, when I start seeing stuff that's overdue, when I'm pulling up the databases, it's like, God, yeah Quickly, I said, get into this program now. You know, it's coming. It's going to be tough being the son of a deputy chief in the department. But, you know, we have a lot legacy in our department. I know.
01:21:41
Speaker
That's awesome. So my son, Spencer, hit hit two of his closest buds, um their dad their dad worked with me. We worked in the same company.
01:21:52
Speaker
ah I learned a lot from him. he He's a fantastic medic. He's still medicing, but. Um, but so we, we got quite a few, like, and so Chief Hastie's dad, he was a captain department when I hired in. So, um you know, he got some time to serve with his dad as well. Of course, we've never been in the same, we don't put him in the same company, although it can happen if you get into a disaster situation. You know, my son could be working directly for me based on that or, or, you know, working through all that. But yeah, that becomes a challenge. And when you're trying to balance people across six battalions, all that but you don't really normally run into that in the air force.
Closing and Gratitude
01:22:25
Speaker
Of course, there's a bigger fire department, you know, if you include everything.
01:22:30
Speaker
Well, Chief, again, thank you for your time. Thank you for sharing that story. Thank you for your decades of service. Thank Thank you for having me Yeah, absolutely. it's It's absolute pleasure. Love to pick your brain. And again, listeners, if you haven't listened to episode 35, go back and listen to that. He tells another great story ah that's worth listening to.
01:22:50
Speaker
Thank you for your time, Chief. do you have anything else before we close it up? Hey, thank you for what you do with this program. um Thank you for sharing the stuff. And I say stuff. I mean, the leadership stories, the ah talking about fire ground stuff, the table the coffee table discussions and all that. It's a really good program. um If none of you have ever had an opportunity, you got a story to tell, reach out to Matt um and get get it out there. I mean, he's got a scheduling huh program. It's pretty awesome. I didn't realize it was with that much because last time it was kind little different. Yeah, that's me leaning on technology.
01:23:21
Speaker
Yeah. Hey, innov it works. But, um, but listen, get out there, study, read. Um, well, that's another skill we lose. Reading reading super critical for development.
01:23:32
Speaker
Um, but not that. Thank you for this. Keep doing this. This is a great thing. Uh, getting, getting all, all styles of, of, of fire protection, whether it's active duty reserve or you just pull them from a civilian, all the stories that tell that that's what tells our history and that's what grows and,
01:23:48
Speaker
you know and you know if you haven't checked your as a firefighter if you haven't checked your smoke alarm check it because we often sit there and tell other people to check it but we forget to check it ourselves and i mean that in seriousness we i got you you know yeah so all that but thank you that's a great plug there at the end i appreciate you i appreciate your time chief have a good one all right you too Thank you for listening to this episode of the Fire Dog Podcast. If you found value in today's conversation, please take a moment to rate and review the show on your podcast platform of choice. It's one of the best ways to help us reach more firefighters and leaders across the fire service.
01:24:20
Speaker
This episode was supported by Roll Call Coins, telling the story of fire departments and teams through premium custom challenge coins. Learn more at rollcallcoins.com. It was also supported by AOS Services, helping fire departments stay mission ready with worldwide firefighting equipment compliance. Find out more at aosservicesinc.com.
01:24:36
Speaker
You can also find more episodes at firedog.us or wherever you listen to podcasts. And be sure to follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn at the Fire Dog Podcast. That is the Fire DAWG Podcast.
01:24:47
Speaker
Sharing this episode with a friend, co-worker, or someone in your firehouse helps these conversations reach the people who would benefit most. This is Matt Wilson with guest Pete Webb. Until next time, stay safe.