Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
58. Developing Fire Service Leaders-Inside the New Fire Officer Strategies & Tactics Leadership Course (FOSTLC)
167 Plays11 days ago
In this episode, Matt and Chris sit down with John Whitmyer, Carlos Ballesteros, and Michael Myles–instructors of the new Fire Officer Strategies & Tactics Leadership Course (FOSTLC).
Designed for newly appointed company officers, FOSTLC is reshaping how the Air Force develops tactical leaders. Our guests break down why the course was created, the leadership gaps it aims to solve, and how it blends decision-making, mentorship, and fireground strategy into a focused 17-day program.
They walk us through the evolution of the course–from its early 30-plus day design to the refined, practical version being delivered today–and share insights from the first student iterations, lessons learned, and feedback from the field. The team also discusses the skills taught, what it takes to become an instructor, and what short- and long-term changes are on the horizon as the course continues to grow.
Whether you're a current or aspiring company officer, a chief officer looking to strengthen your department’s leadership pipeline, or simply someone invested in the future of the DoD Fire Service, this episode offers a deep dive into a course that’s helping shape the next generation of fire service leaders.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Episode Overview
00:00:03
Speaker
dog podcast
00:00:14
Speaker
Welcome, my name is Matt Wilson. I'm joined with Chris Boikley. you for listening to episode 58 of the Fire Dog Podcast.
Course Evolution and Objectives
00:00:19
Speaker
In this episode, we sit down with the instructors of the newly established Fire Officer Strategies and Tactics Leadership Course at the DOD Fire Academy in San Angelo, Texas.
00:00:29
Speaker
As you'll hear from our guests, this course was created to help develop newly minted company officers into stronger tacticians and fire ground leaders for their departments. We cover the evolution of the course, what it includes, how the first iterations went, and what the future
Meet the Instructors
00:00:42
Speaker
holds. It is my pleasure to welcome to the podcast, John Whitmire, Carlos Ballesteros, and Michael Miles.
00:00:50
Speaker
Well, appreciate you gentlemen joining. We are here to talk about Fire Officer Strategies and Tactics Leadership of Course. And I want to get into how in the world that name came to be, if you guys have any idea. Because that's a mouthful, man.
00:01:07
Speaker
um I mean, the the origin of this goes back like to CFMs. I think when Chief Morris was in charge, he put out the little survey. Everybody kind of did their thing. And it seemed like it was trending towards we need better driver operators.
00:01:23
Speaker
Uh, but I mean, we're, I don't think we're going to do a class here for that. Um, be cool though. So, um, you know, yeah, big old wink dog came in and he was like, nah, we need better, you know, that the core, so we need better core and that's going to translate through everything. Right. So he wanted that new crew chief.
00:01:42
Speaker
um just to go kind of like an airman goes to ALS to learn how to be an NCO. We were just, bam. And then ah ah it must have been a cool acronym, just like Bracer Forge and all that stuff. So we came up with something smart.
00:01:57
Speaker
We got to create acronyms, man. We love it. Yeah, yeah. Well, i mean, you already got into the episode, man. You're you're answering our questions before I ask them. Before we got into the details, it's all good.
Instructor Backgrounds and Expertise
00:02:08
Speaker
It's all good. Before we get into the details of stuff, I want to know who you guys are so that the listeners know who you are.
00:02:14
Speaker
So again, we got Carlos, Mike, and Witt. They are instructors the DOD Fire Academy. So each one of you, man, take a minute, tell us who you are, tell us where you've been stationed, and whatever else you'd like to share.
00:02:29
Speaker
All right, this one's a long one. if um So I baned and came in in 04, so I hit 21 years. I could have retired my last base, but decided to come back to give back all my years. And then they gave me math starting right at the end, so i got they got me.
00:02:45
Speaker
So here I am. ah My first base was Lake and Eve, and I went to Holloman. And then I went to McGuire, which just went joint base. That was not fun. And then I did a special duty. I just walked over to the Expeditionary Center.
00:02:59
Speaker
I did four years as a combat skills instructor over there. um Now it's Fieldcraft or they're calling it something else now. And then I went after after that four years. I went to back to Lake and Eve.
00:03:10
Speaker
Then I went to Kunsan, Masala. And now I'm here to probably wrap it up. I thought you said it was going to be long, Yeah, I'm not sorry. it just i I did this a lot. of good.
00:03:23
Speaker
Man, a lot of places. Sounds like a great breadth of experience, man. that's ah That's pretty cool. I've never heard of any firefighters doing what you call combat skills training, field craft. Yeah, it used to be combat airman skills training at the Expeditionary Center. People would to Fort Dix for a couple weeks and then send them off to fight the good fight.
00:03:42
Speaker
Carlos, how about you, man? Yes, sir. Yeah. So I'm a technical sergeant Carlos by Estetos. I've been in a DOD fire since 2013. I was stationed at Kadena Air Force Base. was my first duty station. And then I went up to Peterson Air Force Base.
00:03:56
Speaker
And then I volunteered to come out here. I've been here since 2021. I taught the basic course. I taught fundamentals and then for about two years. And then I went and taught rescue technician for another two. Taught the last class of that. And then as we were doing that, they asked if there was any anybody interested in joining the Fossick team or being a part of it. And I thought that sounded cool. So here I am.
00:04:18
Speaker
Awesome, man. Welcome. Yeah, what an opportunity, too. And we'll get into that a little bit to be the first among the first of ah of a brand new course and a course of this caliber. How cool is that, man?
00:04:29
Speaker
Hey, Mike, we're just going skip your intro, dude, because you're the last one. Now just messing with you. tell us Tell us about yourself, Mike. So I'm Mike Miles.
00:04:40
Speaker
I was at J-Bear in 2017. I stayed there for six years. Worked with CMS Army Wilson for a little bit of time. And then had to leave J-Bear, sadly.
00:04:54
Speaker
ah But had a great opportunity to come here to instruct. So came here instruct. It a suppression for about a year. And then... Like a Carlos said, we got the opportunity to come teach a new course. And, you know, I like challenges. So I was all in for it and getting it started up and going.
00:05:19
Speaker
I appreciate all you guys providing a little background about who you are. but let's get
Course Inspiration and Practical Applications
00:05:23
Speaker
into it, man. Let's talk about FOSLIC. So again, Fire office Officer Strategies and Tactics Leadership course.
00:05:29
Speaker
To kick things off, let's talk about what it is, broadly speaking. so And for historical context, we actually did an episode in 2021, episode 33, with Senior Master Sergeant Jeffrey Wyatt at the time.
00:05:43
Speaker
He, at the time, was the Forest Development Manager working at AFCEC. And that's kind of the origin from what I understand ah of this course, believe it or not.
00:05:54
Speaker
And they, it was like EOD does a seven level course to teach their seven levels, you know, how to be seven levels, how to be NCOs within their functional community. And we want to do something similar in our functional community.
00:06:07
Speaker
And I think we all know collectively that And we're thrusted into this tough situation when we first become NCOs and ne you know company officers. it's It's a tough job. you know It's a tough transition. And maybe we don't have the experience under our belt that we should before we're stepping onto an edgy company and having to lead firefighters.
00:06:32
Speaker
And so the idea came that we need to create some kind of set-level course for ourselves do that goes beyond what the fire officer certifications teach us. So a little bit about the origin that I know of, of this idea of this course. And it's so cool to see it to come to fruition and actually happen. We've been talking about this for years, again, back to 2021, just now coming about. That's how long it takes for something like this to happen. And I know you guys are are probably making changes to it as you go through it too.
00:07:01
Speaker
So let's talk about maybe with broadly speaking, what is the Fire Officer Strategy and Tactics Leadership course? It's pretty much about how you explain it. well um We can't really call it a seven level course,
00:07:13
Speaker
because we are bound, like, especially really the academy is, you know, all tailored to NFPA, IFSAC, stuff like that. We're kind of take what we know across the board, across the enterprise from every different aspect, and we kind we just bring it together.
00:07:29
Speaker
and try to build what my analogy is. We take your green crew chiefs that really don't have the time like a civilian would, you know, 15, 20 years riding backseat before you jump up as and, ah you know, get bars on.
00:07:41
Speaker
So we're just going to test them kind of where where they're at, build from there, and then grab those green crew chiefs and give you back a bell cow. That was my whole analogy. So, yeah, especially if you're on ops, of some sort of, you know, white shirt level, you know, you've got that green crew chief out there running, even alarm activation.
00:08:00
Speaker
You're like, oh, listening. Cause you're like, hopefully they're doing everything right. This is like where you can be like, all right, cool. I know they're, they're good to go.
Ideal Students and Early Classes
00:08:07
Speaker
So who's the, uh, the ideal student that's going to be attending? What's the, uh, the target audience look like?
00:08:13
Speaker
um So we did two classes so far, and our first one was open, kind of just crew chiefs equivalent. And we had Brits that don't even have flight line. Like we have one that was at Alkenberry, one of them that doesn't have a flight line. What are you looking at, man? Are you looking at Andy? Oh, Carlos is over there. Oh, yeah. help me.
00:08:33
Speaker
That big old head has a lot of knowledge. the ah um So we had that just kind especially with the the civilians in here, they turned into more mentors for the young buds. And then our second class were like, all right, cool. All military, all staff sergeants, but a lot of them were already like established and already did their homework. So we had like, they were almost too advanced to go through here. They could, I mean, they were teaching us stuff, which is part of this too. Like, you know, Ellsworth isn't the same as Kadena, know i mean? So how they operate and just what their, their core tasks are. So
00:09:08
Speaker
we We all just come in and, like, there most of these kids – I call them kids because I'm old now, right? the They're at a base with just heavies. Most of them never touched a bomber or a helicopter. or That's just our – and then we concentrate mostly on um on structural. It's like they're two weeks out of the three-week course on just hammering stuff, especially they go to a, you know, job city base, Shaw, McGuire, you know, those kind.
00:09:33
Speaker
ah we We touch all that. And then even the ones that aren't there, they could definitely PCS there before you know it. And then they're going to be jumped in like, oh, crap, I remember that. um And that's that's kind of it where it's like a collaboration. It's open forum mostly.
00:09:48
Speaker
It's not like we're set in stone. Like what another analogy is like most of our courses in n FPA is like the Old Testament, you know the the Bibble. All right. What we have now is that that coexists.
00:10:00
Speaker
bumper sticker we can we can pull from a whole bunch of like proven um you know after action lesson learned uh tactics out there and we will test them we test them with them if it works for them it if it doesn't like we've noticed a lot of them have their own like you know quick pull systems with like you know weird modified minute man and we're like cool let's see it and then we'll we're doing it oh that's cool and it just comes out they're like o and everybody kind of like works together learns from each other And we just see what works. And they test it. So it's it's not like, hey, this is the way.
00:10:35
Speaker
Or show you a way that we kind of do it, obviously, because we just, you know, rinse and repeat a lot. But let's see what actually will work in the time frame we give you. And they're like, oh, and a lot of them are like, oh, dang.
00:10:47
Speaker
That sounds awesome. I didn't realize that. oh Go ahead, Chris. No, so was just going to say being kind of open forum style, what
Course Operation and Scenario-Based Learning
00:10:54
Speaker
what's what are some examples of what a training day might look like over the course of the three weeks?
00:11:01
Speaker
So examples, say we're, first off, like we'll, we do ARF as our block one. It's, it was like three days. We're kind of, we're rewriting right now from all feedback and then up and down. We do have a new student base requirement, which we can talk about.
00:11:17
Speaker
And um we're actually tailoring in because we didn't manning for live burns. You know, the meet are 1403 and AETC, all these red tapes. So we're kind of working around that and we're going to be doing live burns.
00:11:31
Speaker
We kind of got away with it. They just couldn't do interior. We'd shut it off, like whatever. Anyways, um so if they were doing ah right into, we go into block two, which is like, you know, company officer stuff, truck company, ladder company, which we don't have ladder trucks or any of that.
00:11:48
Speaker
We have engines. We have plenty of them. So we would, um we would, they would just like build their trucks. All right. How are your trucks? Get everything. Here's all the stuff, like a pile of, hey, good luck.
00:12:00
Speaker
Fit your trucks, do your loads, come up with your crew um because they're all going to rotate through crew chief anyways, right? So they should be experienced in all the other aspects. And then we'll test them like off the rip. right, hey, we got a structural emergency, send it.
00:12:14
Speaker
And it's kind of like, oh, and like obviously group dynamics, they're not used to each other yet, all that stuff. um And it just kind of works together. In our career field, kind of do that. We know we fill in, we fill gaps, neglected fields of fire kind of thing.
00:12:27
Speaker
And we'll we'll test them. And then they kind of learn off like, oh, crap. And then now it starts pinging like, all right, cool. And then they'll ask like, hey, what would be a better way? And like everything just like it. It's pretty good. Like we most of the time we get lot of like wide eye kind of stuff. So even from the established homies.
00:12:45
Speaker
Yeah, that's. Man, that's awesome. it It sounds a little bit like experimentation, experimental. you' You're letting people come to the table like, hey, show us what hose load you want to use. I guess, do you guys put any kind of limitations on that? Because the good idea fairies, man, you you start talking about hose loads and everybody's got their own idea of what's right.
00:13:07
Speaker
Do you fence them off like, hey, you guys got 15 minutes as a team to figure out which hose load you want to use? I mean, it's not like when we're not doing buds. Yeah, we're not doing bud stuff. But, uh, It is. like So we'll initially train them to see like almost like a pre-test.
00:13:20
Speaker
Instead of writing ah an actual test on the stuff we're going to teach them, We like show us what you know right now. show and we'll were we're all going to witness how well it works. All right. Or or, you know, and then we'll go about out that and then we'll kind of show them what it's not like, hey, our curriculum is like a pre-connect. It's not like it will be, you know, a triple layer or a minute man.
00:13:40
Speaker
It's like pre-connect, pull to the door. You need 300 GPM, you know, two lines. Figure that out. However you guys want to do it. Your efficient way. Let's see it. And then we'll teach them our ways that we've seen because we're obviously here.
00:13:53
Speaker
We do a lot of research. It's our job is to reach out, find better tactics, um and then just show them a way. See if they like it. If it's like, man, they're better with whatever they're doing.
00:14:05
Speaker
Hey, cool. As long as they're meeting our criteria, damn, we definitely have steps that we have to grade on. And they'll they'll meet it. But we don't go crazy specific like you will do it this way.
00:14:17
Speaker
Let's back up a little bit. Let's talk about the development how the course before it hit the streets when you guys are sitting in rooms and maybe you guys weren't the one i know josh leonita was in there andy kehoe there's a few others in the early iterations of this before it was actually a course there he is right there in the background andy kehoe the planning p funny um What did the course development evolution look like now when when we had this idealistic vision of what this course was going to be? Like what was on the list of things that we wanted to accomplish?
00:14:55
Speaker
well It's almost like right in the CFETP. um They had the working groups come out, a lot of SMEs from different ah um different areas. and just hammered is whatever they thought of like new, especially this big head.
00:15:09
Speaker
Um, they were hammered. And initially this is added up to a task list. It was almost half the length as our original, you know, apprentice course. We're like over 30 something training days. So you take five training days a week, you're losing your crew chiefs for that long.
00:15:26
Speaker
And it was like, Ooh, I mean, it's cool. Let's get it. Um, But I think you it just worked out with all the red tape, especially with Manning. You guys know how that works. and We just went down our last commander, Colonel DeLong. He brought it up to um our CFM at the time, Chief Wink.
00:15:45
Speaker
It was like, this is what we could do. And they kind of negotiated and we knocked it down to 17 training days right now. And we're still validating that. Actually, we're already, like, firing and adjusting.
00:15:56
Speaker
But the development side, if they were out here for weeks going through everything. Like, really good group of guys. I mean, Silva, he's here as one of our instructors again. Gonzo, Flynn, there's a whole bunch of dudes that are out here um getting on it.
00:16:12
Speaker
And we just kind of chopped at it enough where we can make it work with what we have.
00:16:20
Speaker
yeah If I remember right, when the ah like the original iterations, like the whole FDNY forcible entry manual was in there, and ah there was a bunch of stuff from Frass that was in there.
00:16:33
Speaker
Are there, i guess, kind of elements of forcible entry or, you know, writ in those two weeks of structural? um Or is it just more of a scenario based where you're going to encounter those things as a student, but it's not necessarily a, you know, a tactics teaching time. It's it's more focused on decision making or things along those lines.
00:16:56
Speaker
No, um I'll pass over to Carlos after this, but that's that's a really good question. So it is tactics and strategies. And part of that being a crew chief, especially young, is teaching the young bloods properly, you know, proper tactics. So we do touch on like stuff.
00:17:11
Speaker
ah That's why we brought in like our our instructors are pretty smees in different areas. And we brought them in at different levels. Like Carlos came from rescue and and fundamentals.
00:17:23
Speaker
So we let him just hammer and we definitely go over all the stuff. So we'll we'll do, ah it's not advanced, but we'll do updated stuff that they'll learn as like an apprentice course, just updated, obviously that, that coexisting.
00:17:37
Speaker
And then we'll go out, bam, and then they'll use all that. We'll teach them the tools, you know, the crawl, crawl, and then they'll go out and, and show us how they're going to use that as a crew chief.
00:17:49
Speaker
And then they can use that technical stuff, the tactics, to teach you know their youngbloods. So going up. But I'll pass that. Definitely that stuff to Carlos on the forceful entry. And then old Michael Miles over here, Mega Man, can handle the host stuff.
00:18:08
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, thank you. ah Yeah, like you said, it was pretty um pretty basic at first when we were looking at the at the material. Like, we all know how to – force open a door and things like that. So we really had to, especially for me, I had to sit back and ask myself, well, like, well, how am I going to do this from the Cruci's point? Like, I already know how to force the door. My Cruci knows how to force the door. So that's what we kept having to tell him. And I would do it, like, during lectures and things like that if the lecture felt too basic or...
00:18:35
Speaker
I would tell them like, look, I know this stuff feels basic, but this is that these are the things we need you to take back to to your departments and teach the ones below you. So now it's not ah course of how to do the task. It's ah how to do this and lead and communicate with other crews at the same time.
00:18:51
Speaker
So it's not just the basic techniques. We're also throwing in mentorship as well. And that's what like everything. We do a forceful entry. We'll do like limited space, ah limited disability.
00:19:03
Speaker
and then... um And yeah, we even do search and rescue, the same exact concept. Ventilation, which like with the British guys, they didn't even do ventilation. So having to teach them, I had to dial it back and teach them how we teach the basic course students here, how they do that. And then we let them apply the techniques, how they wanted to, while communicating with interior, things like that.
00:19:29
Speaker
So it sounds like it's kind of a mix of, you know, tactics, getting reps together and then scenario base where somebody's in charge. They've got a crew of of other students who are there, you know, assigned to their apparatus and they're making decisions based on the tactics you just worked on. Is that?
00:19:50
Speaker
Yes, sir. to say Yep. Yeah. Taking those tactics. Now applying those tactics like specifically for like forcing a door. ah I'm gonna let my crew take care of that while I'm looking at smoke conditions and and other things. Right. Or if they have trouble, yeah, show them a different technique.
00:20:05
Speaker
Being that mentor on scene while being in charge as well.
00:20:12
Speaker
So you said something that sorry, go ahead, Chris. So for you specific to you, Carlos, where you've taught the fundamentals course, you've taught rescue.
Teaching Approach and Peer Learning
00:20:20
Speaker
How does this, uh, this course differ just in kind of methodology or, you know, some of the the techniques, um, that you use and as a FOSLIC instructor?
00:20:33
Speaker
Are there differences there? it does it feel, you know, um similar? Pretty similar. I mean, um, I always tie it back to like when I taught rescue and Master Sergeant, why he explained it a perfect way where when they come over here, it's not like you said, it's not the, this is exactly how we're going to do it. This is the best way. And rescue day one, we would tell them like, look, we're going to show you guys a way.
00:20:56
Speaker
ah But there's multiple ways to accomplish these tasks. So if you feel like you have a better way that you could show and you want to share it with a class, we'll test it out. And if it works, it works. If it doesn't, well, now we know. And we kind of take that same philosophy throughout the whole course.
00:21:11
Speaker
So, but yeah, i don't think it's it's very different from anything else that I've taught.
00:21:20
Speaker
You said something earlier that was take this back to your base. Like we want to give you things to take back to your base to be able to pass on to other things. And I wanted to hit this point before I forgot that going back to my original point at the beginning of the episode, the origins of this idea back in 2015, there was, there's been different rookie books out there within the enterprise prior to 15, but in 15, we established something at J bear.
00:21:49
Speaker
It was, the rookie book for brand new airmen. And, you know, it's this big and Mike knows about it, man. He had to go through it. It's like 80 pages long task book, six different sections covering ARF in these different categories that we mentioned, kind of similar to this structural. And then we had some yeah EMS stuff in there and then some wartime firefighting stuff that turned into a company officer book.
00:22:13
Speaker
eventually, a few years later, ah within the same department, and I'm not suggesting that other departments haven't done something similar, but me being at J-Bear 15, seeing this the evolution of this, Chief Morris, the career field manager at the time, he you know caught wind of this, and he wanted to institutionalize it throughout the career field.
00:22:36
Speaker
And so I think, thinking now, that was kind of the origin of where this course may have came from. Instead of this book, why not create a course? But I remember in the early iterations of the Rookie Book in 15, Thief Dene and the fire chief at J-Bear at the time, i was in the training section and working with him on this, and he said, i love this idea, and I think that it it's going to be beneficial beyond just these individuals who,
00:23:08
Speaker
that are receiving the training because those who teach it are going to learn and those who learn it are going to teach it to others. So i just want to hit on that point that this course isn't just going to be valuable to those that attend it. It's going to be valuable to everybody that they go out and touch out there in the career field.
00:23:30
Speaker
No, yeah, exactly. What do you got, brother? I don't want to tell you. Go ahead, Carlos. Oh, no, I'm sorry. I was validating what you just said. It's exactly like planting the seed and that seed's going to keep spreading throughout the course. And that's throughout the enterprise. That's the goal is to change that culture.
00:23:47
Speaker
Mike, we want to hear from you, brother. What do you got? i mean, not too much over here. I'm just, I'm just listening. Uh, So what were you doing within the academy? and Like what kind of expertise are you bringing to the course?
00:24:01
Speaker
Expertise? Oh, always just say, yll only know what you know. I think the this course is, I'd say it's a foundations course because as you said before, the rate that we move around and the military versus in the city, becoming an a crew chief in a shorter period of time.
00:24:24
Speaker
You're supposed to, as a backseater, learn from each position. and And so you're also supposed to train each position going back down. um The timeframe to do that is limited.
00:24:37
Speaker
So this course is kind of like the company officer book. It's the foundation. It's, if you've Over time, if you forget those things that you've learned as you're moving throughout those seats, how equipped are you as a crew chief?
00:24:53
Speaker
As a crew chief, your job is to know every position. That's what we're always taught. um You're supposed know everybody's job. So the rate, again, as in the military, when we go through to become that crew chief versus a civilian department, spending the amount of time that you get to sit in a backseat really learn the job that you're doing, to become a subject matter expert in that position, it's harder to do for us.
00:25:25
Speaker
So with this course, you're able to those new crew chiefs are able to come here get more comfortable in what it is maybe having to relearn the things that they may have forgot or maybe not had the liberty to experience or be taught at the time based off of wherever they're at.
00:25:42
Speaker
How about just the process for becoming ah an instructor in a new course like this? What did that look like for you guys? Were there certain, you know, kind of prereqs or, you know, I don't know if anybody was part of the the working groups that, you know, established the curriculum, but what were the steps that that you took, you know, to eventually become a FOSLIC instructor? Because I know it's not like...
00:26:09
Speaker
hey you know I rolled out of bed and now I'm a i'm ready to teach you know strategy and tactics to you know our up-and-coming staff. What were the steps that each of you guys took ah to prepare you you know to be an instructor in this course?
00:26:25
Speaker
um the So for me, the preparation was, I always give credit to everyone that taught me up until this point. I came from a great program, like CMS Art said.
00:26:36
Speaker
i was a J-Bear for six years. I did go through the rookie book, which at the time had a a lot of information and a lot of learning. And then right after that, once I did make staff, I went straight into the company officer book.
00:26:50
Speaker
I had a lot of good mentors, military and civilian. It was just a great mentorship and leadership there. So i I invested in learning from those before.
00:27:05
Speaker
So when I got here to teach, I was pretty prepared because Teaching, going from teaching the IST courses, that's the same thing we're doing on the floor.
00:27:17
Speaker
Because once you're, you're the new guy until the next new guy comes in. and i was always taught to, hey, yeah but I learned something, I'm gonna pass it to, you know, help out those that are coming in to try to maybe either not make the same mistakes I have or just, you know, help them.
00:27:32
Speaker
as they're getting a getting their feet wet. So coming here to teach IST courses, it was the same thing. And then as a crew chief, I was also teaching newer crew chiefs coming up.
00:27:45
Speaker
So it wasn't too much of a transition. Mike, I'm wondering, or Whit or Carlos, any of you, you know, within the academy, so we have instructors aside the academy, you go there to be an instructor, right?
00:27:59
Speaker
but you don't necessarily know which course you're going to get into. How do we pick somebody for Fossilic? So Carlos, tell me what your journey looked like to become a Fossilic instructor. Yeah. yeah So like like I was saying earlier, um I was already in rescue.
00:28:14
Speaker
um i had been in there for about two years. Saw that Fossilic was coming, ended up taking our job security, got rid of rescue. So I was looking for a different place to go. And, um, It was either try out to come back to being an advanced course instructor for another another course or go back to fundamentals.
00:28:31
Speaker
And I love fundamentals. I love Mr. Sagers, the block chief over there. um But I really liked being on the advanced side, teaching more skills, my peers, people above me and things like that.
00:28:42
Speaker
um But I kept picking at Master Sergeant Keogh at the time who was in charge of the whole process of bringing this course up. Kept re picking his brain, saying, hey, I want to be a part of that team. I want to keep, I want to do that. want to do this.
00:28:54
Speaker
And
Instructor Selection Process
00:28:55
Speaker
i he kept telling me like, yeah, okay, yeah, you'll be a part of the team as soon as the cup comes up. And so I just had to take his word for it. But before that, like interviewing for like rescue technician, it was a ah board process. You had to at least be done with your internship.
00:29:10
Speaker
um You had to have been teaching for a while, you know, get your experience up. And then ah once you were done with that, had to have your CCIF, obviously. And then ah it was a board process where you have to interview in front of all higher-ups here at the academy. And um judging off how you interviewed, just depends if they picked you, if you were a perfect match or not.
00:29:29
Speaker
For Rescue specifically, I had to interview three times just because I've never been interviewed like that before, up in a board-style type of interview. So it took a while, but I just kept going. so And that kind of had stepped my foot in the door so I could come to Fosslick.
00:29:44
Speaker
Yeah, that was my journey, though. That's cool. I didn't realize the Academy did that for different courses. Are you guys going to do that? Are going do that for future iterations of picking instructors for this course? Kind of a board process? um Yeah, we'll we'll definitely make it fair across everybody. But we kind of like, you I mean, personality is definitely a big thing. Because when this first kicked off, we were after the apprentice course left. We were like swing shift.
00:30:07
Speaker
So um families, all that. We really wanted people to want to do it first. And then they come on board and then it's kind of like, hey, this is all new. It's going to be like, what what the heck?
00:30:18
Speaker
A lot of building stuff from just ideas that were taken, you know, from this big old head. mind him. um And it's the same kind of thing. You kind of know when Hummies are coming in and their apprentice course, you're like, you'd be good in Fossil.
00:30:33
Speaker
I mean, so... We do have to go across the board, but it's really like, what's a good feel? and like Especially with our small group, we only got five of us in there. Who's going to get in there and just fit in like they've been there?
00:30:47
Speaker
Oh, cool. Let's talk about the course makeup. and We talked about it a little bit. I'm curious to know... if there's cognitive don instruction, you know, sitting in the classroom, instructor doing the presentation, that kind of thing to include, obviously there's the psychomotor getting out there and and pulling hose and those sorts of things. You mentioned ARF.
00:31:06
Speaker
I heard clearly there's structural, are there technical rescue? Are there hazmat? Like what is and is not in the course? Kind of what does it look like generally? you want to take it or?
00:31:17
Speaker
I'll take it. um, sharp parameters had to be not basic and not technical. So no technician level stuff. So, um, and especially with our young buds, a lot of them are just, a sponge can only hold so much water at once, right? That's why everything's back to the basics, especially the the young buds that like went up through COVID.
00:31:38
Speaker
Cause it was like mostly hands off, you know? So we're trying to get back in their hands on, uh, Professional problem solvers should be our our title and just getting that critical thinking under stress, inoculation.
00:31:52
Speaker
So we definitely do a lot of PowerPoints just so they can lock in and have something tangible because learning styles differ. So we'll have some stuff and then in there can have questions in a controlled environment.
00:32:03
Speaker
And then we're going to go out and they're going to have to like, you know, put one foot front the other and show us what's up. And then we can kind of guide them and then it's kind of like, and All right. Flap your wings. I lost. I lost what I was trying to say.
00:32:16
Speaker
I squirreled. but happened? What the question? That was good, man. You did good. Whit, is there any yeah like wartime specific firefighting ah content or is it or is it mostly like stateside crews, apparatus, all that kind of stuff? um That's a good question. So
Wartime Firefighting and Foundational Focus
00:32:34
Speaker
with ARF, definitely that's like i kind of built the ARF one um tailored around them.
00:32:40
Speaker
And um I do the big picture stuff too. So obviously like, you know, the staff sergeant stateside normally are going to fill a higher role. ah But if you're like worrying about your manning and like, you know, they just see an Excel that you shoot up to the wing commander.
00:32:53
Speaker
I'm like, oh, we need this many people. Even stage captains like, you know they're doing their scheduling. And it's like we need, but but then I'm showing them why. The NDA, what that brought in, the new ARF playbook, which is the 460 TAG. And they're like, what's it take? And I'll ask them, what's it take? And they're like, right. So I'm giving them like a quick snap of where all this information is coming from build.
00:33:17
Speaker
And then a lot of people have done the brain power and they built a little like spreadsheet for you. And this, but this is exactly why. And then, and all that's based on, you know, obviously assigned aircraft. What if you're overseas somewhere and you have the rotator come through?
00:33:31
Speaker
How many days on the ground? They're like, ah, and then on an in-flight emergency, what about the other organization up there? who Who would you call for this? Who do you talk to for this? They're like, ah. Cause not only are they going to make better crew chiefs, the crew chief that knows all this stuff can help the the IC. All right. So all of this goes back and forth. And then the airman has a ah question of like, why? And then they can answer the why, know the why is especially the new generation.
00:33:55
Speaker
Um, but we do touch on, uh, the whole con app. Um, I bring out the book, I show him the whole thing. I mean, we have McCree here, which, you know, he was like, uh, we need to make one of these for him.
00:34:06
Speaker
Um, the con up, the, how we operate. Um, I mean, I personally did the way i can't get that dude on, man. I know. I tell him to answer me back on coming on the podcast. It's funny. I was like, yo, you should pop in and just show face. He's like, no, they're trying to get me on here. and i was like, ah, you should go.
00:34:21
Speaker
But he's busy with officer blog. Uh, I just say that i covered. kay Yeah, but we do, that that's why I'm like really harping the, the new concept is like those staff sergeants are in turkey going to by themselves running an airfield and not only just fire protection,
00:34:37
Speaker
They're gonna be going to be everything else. So that's spoke out stuff. And I experienced with Cope North a few years ago. i mean, I had crews go out there just by themselves.
00:34:48
Speaker
Good luck. All right. Hopefully you guys know what's up. And that's not the time to like ask questions. Like you should at least know least somewhere to look for information you don't know.
00:34:59
Speaker
And it's not, not my job. It's not a thing out there. So some foundational things. document like foundational wise talking to some of the foundational documents as to you know what a TIG is and why you have to do things the way you have to do on a fire scene to include and then also in addition to that i mean how how deep into the instruction are we going to like this is how you force a door or this is when you should or let's say Smoke reading or size up or what kind of things, I guess, tactical things are we teaching in a classroom?
00:35:36
Speaker
I mean, I could speak on the ARF stuff real quick and then I'll, I'll hand that over to old. It's a cranky extras. It's more green. Yeah. So in our, we obviously we teach them that in the playbook and just like when you go to like four to seven, it's like, Hey, here's your 44 app.
00:35:53
Speaker
Build your manning for your base. It's kind of like the thing. Spoiler alert for you guys haven't been there. Um, Same thing. i was like, hey, you have assigned C-17 your airfield. Go. What's your mannequin look like?
00:36:04
Speaker
What's your vehicle set going to look like? All that. And they're like, ah. So now you can see them paying and like, wow. Because they obviously everything's built for them. So now they at least have something that they know.
00:36:15
Speaker
Like, oh, yeah, that's why. And practice-wise, teach them all the background stuff, and then we teach them. um We give them scenarios. Right now we did um we're doing normal brown with kind of like every type of emergency you can have with an aircraft, um different types of aircraft, and then what's going to happen.
00:36:33
Speaker
And it's not just like responding. It's like pre and during and then mostly afterwards. So we do a lot of post, like what you're going to do afterwards. Big, big heart on mental health right right now.
00:36:44
Speaker
And that's overlooked. And then the clean cab kind of stuff, you know, clean gear. lasts for a while. We have chronic stuff, mental and physical, that we we touch on. And it's really building that. But as far as like smoke reading and structure side, I give it to Carlos.
00:37:02
Speaker
Yeah. And then from my side, ah like with Forcible Entry, we go in-depth in-ep as the different classes of levers, ah mechanical advantage of the Halligan bar itself, things like that.
00:37:17
Speaker
ah the different ways to pop a door, the different signs. So it does feel basic in that aspect. And then with like ventilation, the same thing. But we don't get as in-depth like we did with the fundamentals block where it's like looking the rules we made out of, the different types of like the decking, the the coverings and the structure, things like that. It's more just like ah strategies, um positive pressure attack, things like that.
00:37:43
Speaker
Knowing what type of ventilation to choose. But yeah, um the course originally was supposed to be 70% classroom-based, which as we were teaching the first couple cook courses, we realized like, hey, this this needs to be more ah strategies and outdoors and getting hands-on, getting more reps.
00:38:04
Speaker
So that's what we're in the process of trying to do now while still keeping them the valuable information from the lectures. Well, that's my side if you want to ask Mike about his. now we're good. I'm just messing with I'm just the hose advancement guy pretty much. But taking all those pieces and then bringing them together, understanding what you're looking at from the outside to like your size up, the fire behavior section, understanding what you're actually looking at, understanding neutral plane, why it's important to get keep with like your –
00:38:36
Speaker
the flow path, control your flow path, door management, things of that nature. And and the lecture portion of it, you can break down the whys more and then to to start them out. and then once we go outside, when we're talking about letting them put their trucks together, that's like the giving people an opportunity to show us, you know, what you're bringing from your base and we're able to gauge Better on what we're going to how we're going to approach the teaching style towards what we're seeing.
00:39:07
Speaker
um Because everybody says a lot of things different to many different techniques. And, you know, people say it all the time, like, well, this is the best way and this. But you're just really looking at the most efficient way to use.
00:39:21
Speaker
Utilize what you have. So like your crew management, knowing your crew, understanding that crew continuity, and then being able to use the tactics that we also teach you or teach the students to better execute whatever's in front of them.
00:39:37
Speaker
The structure portion definitely holds advancements. I was taught nozzle forward. From the day I got there, that's just your your experience is only based off your opportunity. I always say that. So that's what I always learned. And using those tactics that everybody understands or learns nozzle forward and understanding what it means to move as a a crew inside, going around and maneuvering your hose around corners or
00:40:09
Speaker
multi-level story, understanding it's not about just getting there. It's, are you able to do the job once you get there? And that's like a ah huge part nozzle forward is you're trying to better understand You're trying to not exhaust yourself before you get to where you're going.
00:40:29
Speaker
ah And that show me portion and the tactics in the beginning, that pre-evaluation, ah again, it's not to knock anybody down. It's just to, as everybody's on the same page, on like, hey, these things, are you tired right now? But let me show you this.
00:40:45
Speaker
Are you able to, are you as tired when you get there? ah We take that same concept and then take it throughout the entire course. That's great. Yeah, a lot of great things you guys shared and things that I didn't even think about, to be honest with you.
00:40:57
Speaker
There's so much that could go into a course like this. one And I imagine that there's a lot of things you got to cut out. In 19 days, there's only so many. k Chris, do you have anything? Yeah, I'm sure this was all, you know, kind of part of it, you know, the massive course ah originally, but um as it's gotten trimmed down, is there any, you know, has there been discussion about like operating off of a dagger or like any of that kind of wartime stuff we're preparing for for staff sergeants, or is that outside of the scope of Boss Lake?
00:41:32
Speaker
um that I mean, we touch on it, obviously, because that's who we're... um that's our core, right? Is those staff sergeants going out there. But as far as the wartime stuff, we're still don't want to take away from like, you know, silver flag sites, um, what their, their main job is.
00:41:48
Speaker
I mean, I would love it. I mean, that's my forte is wartime stuff for my, my time at four dicks, but, um We just touch on it. So at least they have an idea on classroom, but I doubt we'll get any of that stuff unless we, I mean, I can drive to Holloman right now. i probably scoop one up. They wouldn't know.
00:42:05
Speaker
ah But no, everything is admissible that you say on this, the podcast. Yeah. What would chief wink say Ask for forgiveness, right? Just don't tell Felty.
00:42:16
Speaker
Chief Felty that. Yeah. I think we're in the early iterations of the wartime stuff. Um, you know We're still trying to figure it out and We got a new chief of staff the Air Force. you know Here we are. too I got to look at my watch like an idiot. But 2025, new chief of staff the Air Force, maybe some different different direction. But you know the I think the concept of employment is going to probably for us in our community going stay Similar, but again, this is all so new. Maybe it's not ready for a course like Fossilic yet.
00:42:44
Speaker
And like you'd mentioned, Silver Flag is already out there and what is their piece in all of this too, so... And only 19 days of training. And so there's only so much we can squeeze into it. And maybe there's not a lot of you know, the daggers are still being produced. That's another element to this too.
00:43:02
Speaker
Coming off the line. Let's get into the first course. Unless you guys have anything else that you want to talk about on like, you know, the content of the course, the cur curriculum or anything like that. I want to talk about how the first course or courses went.
00:43:14
Speaker
If you
Course Iteration and Feedback
00:43:15
Speaker
guys are ready for that. So how many courses have there been up to this point? So ah we've had two courses so far. and um The first course, though, specifically, that was, but to be fully transparent, that was a little bumpy, at least for me, just trying to figure out exactly how I want to teach it and how I want to throw these scenarios out and things like that, just because, like you said, we built this from scratch.
00:43:40
Speaker
So I'm trying to add that crew chief twist to all these basic things. That was a big, big thing for me that I had to work on. Um, but then once we kind of found that even flow, it helped out, um, especially for the second course, like we took a lot of the mistakes and things that we did for them from that first course, ah applied them to the second one. And that helped it go a lot, a lot smoother.
00:44:02
Speaker
Um, and it did reflect in like the course critiques and the feedbacks, especially for our target audience. Uh, they were saying that they did have, that they were they did feel more confident and comfortable to go back to their home station and sit in that hot seat and mentor other ones.
00:44:17
Speaker
I believe we even had chiefs reach out to us telling us the exact same thing, that they were proud of the what they were bringing back. So, yeah, it was definitely bumpy. Were both courses this year?
00:44:30
Speaker
Yes, sir. I think our first class was in August.
00:44:35
Speaker
And then immediately right after that, two weeks after that, we graduated that last that first class, jump straight into the next one. Okay. and then Do you guys have a ah pulse on kind of the battle rhythm going forward? How many Foss Light courses will there be each year? and whereas look at We're looking at seven courses a year. Obviously, the this last next one got canceled for December because of the whole furlough.
00:45:00
Speaker
ah But that's actually a ah good thing because now we have even more time to spend on touching up the course and making it better, fine-tuning it. ah So the next one will be in ah January on the 21st.
00:45:11
Speaker
And then after that, it's just six more after that. Or five more, sorry. Mike, are anything from you guys on the first couple iterations? Yeah, it wouldn't. Like Carlos said, it was a little bumpy just seeing how exactly we were going to approach it.
00:45:30
Speaker
But
00:45:32
Speaker
We have a really good team, so we're able bounce off each other, bounce off the ideas. So what we did. It went pretty smooth, and honestly, in my opinion, a little bumpy, but pretty smooth overall. I mean, tailoring it to the audience, like Carlos was saying, is the goal.
00:45:51
Speaker
And the the audience are those brand-new crew chiefs. if And that's the hard part about it because some individuals can come here that different, time and experience. I've been in eight years and I'm a tech, but somebody can be a staff and have been in longer than me.
00:46:13
Speaker
But that's, again, opportunity experiences and then everybody has their own path in their progression throughout their career. So it's hard to, we're trying to fine tune to make sure that we do get the brand new crew chiefs that are just stepping into that role that are not as comfortable.
00:46:35
Speaker
But the again, those that were those brand new crew chiefs, mean, they learned. If you're coachable, that's the best thing in any course, right? You can't go to a course thinking, well, I'm not going learn anything here. that's If you can't be coachable, then you're not going to get anything out of it.
00:46:53
Speaker
ah But I believe everybody so far has gotten something or learned something new that they can take back. Or maybe it's the changing, giving different perspectives. The perspectives on what you're looking at when you roll up to do your size up, thinking ahead on who you're going to be.
00:47:10
Speaker
um what resources you're going ask for, or if you have a ladder truck in your department, making sure that you're not just, it's not just the size of, you got to coordinate. you're first on scene, you're coordinating with the oncoming crews that are coming in to let them know what they're seeing, letting them know what positions, what routes to take, things like that, that again, people might not have thought about before.
00:47:30
Speaker
it's just taking all of those different perspectives to give a broader perspective across the board. Yeah. Great points, man. And, So if you guys have one or two big changes out of the first couple of iterations, what were they?
00:47:48
Speaker
um So our big one is our target audience.
Adjustments and Target Audience Shift
00:47:52
Speaker
It kind of went up. um They had prereqs. You know, they had to be step. Like initially, Chief Wink wanted this to be like a capstone, like seven level.
00:48:01
Speaker
And he wanted them to have all their ones with ISO. So everything required. And then they'll come here. But then we'll find out um our last class definitely that we had seasoned people in there, know, they've been in 12, 13 years of staff and they just already knew the stuff they could teach. They could just be an instructor like immediately here that there, there's some solid, solid homies that came through.
00:48:22
Speaker
um But we got our best feedback on our critiques were from the young bloods that haven't been in, they haven't had the opportunities, you know, coming from bases like Belgium, stuff like that. And a brand new, and Like, they're like, oh, wow, they're learning a lot. And we they're just like, pause. they date And that's where we're like, all right, cool.
00:48:39
Speaker
These people, especially if they've been in like long enough, it's ah to me, we're attacking their pride. They should already know all this stuff, right? So when they get here, like, ba you know what mean, man. So it's like, we're like, you know, we're not.
00:48:51
Speaker
poking at you like you don't know shit. It's like, yo, like, let's all build together. And if you are that advanced person, there's other people here. They're probably faking it. All right. And they you know on mean? That pride is still hitting because that's our our thing thumping our chest.
00:49:06
Speaker
But now Chief Nally and our commander, um all of our leadership here kind of read that, put it together, had a little analysis. And then Chief Nally fired up to Chief Wilson, Gio,
00:49:19
Speaker
And he was like, yo, how about this? They change it. They want brand new staffs, GS-7s, 8s that, you know, they haven't been on the seat more than a year. And if they have been, then it's up to the fire chief to kind of do a waiver, like a low threat. But even that in our first class with the civilians, we had Wheels. Obviously, shout out to Wheels.
00:49:41
Speaker
Wheels was our guy from Avon. He was just amazing. He was our mentor and having that kind of like the fire officer blocks now, they'll bring in a chief as a mentor for a little bit, kind of lead it.
00:49:52
Speaker
We want that same style as like, you know, a season, like go getter, those civilians, when we grew up as airmen, that like you, like they're going to come find you and we're going, you what mean? um Those kinds of mentors to be in the class of lead from example and give their insight, like on the floor,
00:50:09
Speaker
um So, again, it's not just us. Like we know all we're all learning at at the same time. We all have our different experiences. And even some of these young bloods, I'd say, have more experience coming here than we think. So and then a lot of times we're finding out with when we're testing them a lot.
00:50:28
Speaker
Some of them are kind of, you know, hyping themselves up a little too much. With the shift to focusing on newer staffs, is having your five level the only prereq to attend?
00:50:43
Speaker
um So if you think about like what I initially was like, I just want to recruit you. If they're going to ride right seed up there, send them here, especially young. So we can, we can catch them and have them.
00:50:54
Speaker
It's just like, like young pilots when they go off to, you know, Eagle flag or whatever, a red flag or any of those flags where they're getting those, like, you know, the high intense drills, all that stuff.
00:51:05
Speaker
I mean, obviously we all went to a fire Academy, but they brain dumped a lot of that and they think they, they don't need to learn that anymore. So we're back to the basics and now we're building up. Now you need to hammer this again. Cause especially a staff starting ALS, you're talking like EPBs awards, commanders calls, all this stuff on the daily. Yeah.
00:51:24
Speaker
um that they have to worry about and then, know, babysitting their airmen, we're taking them away from that so they can just concentrate eight hours of training a day on you. Like, we're giving you this, all right? This is what we're doing for 17 days.
00:51:38
Speaker
We're going to build you. That's what we're concentrating on. So not necessarily a prereq or requirement. it's It's open to any crew chief that wants to come and just kind of challenge themselves and maybe, maybe they show up and they know 90% of the things that are going to be covered. Well, that's perfect. Cause there's no way to distill down what that 10% is for each crew chief, you know, throughout the force, which it sounds like that's kind of the whole intent of kind of an iron sharpens iron opportunity. Come test your decision-making, come see where your blind spots are.
00:52:14
Speaker
um And really anybody that's in that um and that position could apply to come down and take the course for those three weeks. It sounds like a nominative nominative process to a you. Fire Chief has to sign off when you're going to. Am I correct on that?
00:52:31
Speaker
Yeah, so um they do have prereqs. So if it's like a senior army with their ones, like a buck sergeant, like send them. right um um I mean, we have senior erman that have been in the seat longer than our brand new staff. Yeah.
00:52:42
Speaker
Either way, like we want a staff less than a year that's riding or a buck sergeant to come on through and then equivalent on the civilian side. I love the buck sergeant reference, man.
00:52:53
Speaker
Going back. Well, let's talk a little bit about, unless you guys got anything else on this, changes, anything else you want to add? I want to talk about long-term development.
00:53:06
Speaker
potential long-term and what you're probably, you're probably the guy for this, I imagine, but like capital investments. So early we mentioned that there's no ladders in the Academy. Are the trainers, what you guys want? Do we want a more complex configuration? Do we not have enough aircraft?
00:53:25
Speaker
Do we need more, a you know, are there any plans for capital investment to build this course up? um Yeah. So on the initial like working group,
00:53:36
Speaker
Obviously, a lot of that was, um you know, funding. There was millions of dollars worth of stuff that wish list, you know what I So right now we were like, hey, we can start this tomorrow. with just We'll just make do of what we have. If we don't have it on site, we've got Norma Brown here, you know, this little guy right here.
00:53:54
Speaker
We got all that. You know, they can least touch some trucks with their, you know, sort of you know big old steering wheel. They just have a little truck in their hand. But we just got an F-16. We just ah acquired one of those, which is a big one.
00:54:07
Speaker
um We have now a flashover trainer. You didn't steal that from Holloman, did you? No, no, no. It wouldn't fit my 4Runner.
00:54:16
Speaker
but the um So we got to have 16. Actually, our crew went down there and specced it out from Shepard, so we shipped it in from there. I asked if I could fly it in, but they I don't have the credentials, I guess.
00:54:29
Speaker
So that, we're about to get a new, I think another... C-130s in the books. They're trying to get an F-15 to kind of do like Tyndall where one's wrecked out in like the woods.
00:54:40
Speaker
um Just stuff like that. And then we just got a new burn trainer, a two-story with Class A capability. So like we're finally getting Class A here. Again, not promising how we're going to do all that yet.
00:54:54
Speaker
um And then we just spec'd out a four-story, like multiple different rooms with different, it's got like the entanglement trainer in there. an elevator for elevator rescue, you name it. Like we spec'd out anything we thought can go in this four story.
00:55:09
Speaker
And then with that, John Hearn was here a couple months ago and like, we were like, boom, boom, boom, boom. And he was like, Hey, bam. So we're going to quit. I heard we're getting to quit soon. Like we're on the list, but is that how the conversation went? Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much. But I'm, I'm pretty sure that, you know, somebody that needs it operational will trump us. So, I mean, it should go that way, but we should get a Quint.
00:55:32
Speaker
um for that. And then if not, we got 35 foot ladders for a reason, right? So, I mean, we just make and we do have wish lists. It's just, we we can do whatever with what we have right now. We, I mean, obviously we have an academy here.
00:55:47
Speaker
It sounds like a lot, man. A lot more than I anticipated. Cool wish lists. Just like when the course first came to fruition, there was this 37-day, 39-day, whatever it was, um training.
00:56:03
Speaker
And then we can't do that much, so you had to you know cut it down a little bit. But just you know throw everything at the wall that you can think of and see what sticks. but i like I like a lot of those ideas, man. it sounds awesome.
00:56:15
Speaker
We talked a little bit about short-term fixes and and what you guys are doing and targeting the target audience and capital improvements, potential capital improvements, no promises. um I think that that covers all of that. i want to get
Preparing for the Course
00:56:27
Speaker
into I want to give you guys an opportunity to tell prospective students what they can do to prepare mentally, physically.
00:56:38
Speaker
I'd like to pass that one to Miles. I think he's the perfect person to ask for that one. how to prepare mentally physically. Yeah, I just come with an open perspective. Kind of like what Massar said about the pride. Well, I mean, you take a lot of pride in being a crew chief. and But always ask, you know, what is a crew chief?
00:57:01
Speaker
And, you know, I ask the students that there's a different perspective there, but you're in charge of a crew. It's not even about you as an individual. You can be the greatest crew chief, but if you don't have
00:57:14
Speaker
that crew management skill in any situation, understanding the, how to, how to navigate your, through your crew through your, sonet your situation scenarios, your incidents.
00:57:28
Speaker
um It's like bringing it back down to not about so much the individual as it's a team aspect. but It's always been that, but so mentally coming with an open mind, open perspective, Hose advancements.
00:57:50
Speaker
Everybody always says that they can move hose until you know you hit one corner. and then you hit two corners and you're not moving. And again, so was just understanding like, hey, that open-mindedness and it takes, I think, three to read a four days for host advancements because I'll do that all day.
00:58:14
Speaker
So that's why you ask that because they call it the, what do you call it, the Mega Man? They call it, they call it the Mega Man Crucible. That was, they called it that. But,
00:58:25
Speaker
we'll be out there all day because that's, I mean, that's where I come from is just, you get on shift, you check out the truck, and then that civilian was like, hey, we're out there till two o'clock, and so that's what I know, and that's what I do, so outside, and any of the objectives that are outside, it's just, it's a hot in San Angelo, so getting acclimated from I came from Jay Bear, so Alaska back to Texas.
00:58:51
Speaker
So wherever you're coming from, just understanding that depending on the season of the year, that you know just be preparing yourself physically before you get here because we will be outside for a long time.
00:59:07
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, great advice on that. You got me thinking, is there pass-fail? I think you mentioned earlier it's a go-no-go. Are we sending people home early if they don't, if if they're not meeting the standard?
00:59:22
Speaker
are they Are they able to go through the course? Kind of like Frass, where you let them go through Chris to the end, but maybe they don't get the patch at the end. Is there is there something similar to that going on in the course? ah Yeah. um You can definitely get, I mean, like, washed out if you don't pass a test or if you fail an objective too many times. But we do the best we can to, like, coach you through it before it ever gets to that point.
00:59:44
Speaker
I know back in the... Back in its early development, it was they were talking about making it a, you lose your your job, basically, if you fail this course. And I think that kind of was a little too harsh ah for everybody. So we may now we do report cards.
01:00:01
Speaker
ah So we just we make sure we keep an eye on every every student that comes through. And then we're judging them, um seeing how well they mesh, how well they do, things they they lack, things that they do well on.
01:00:14
Speaker
And then we send that report card back to their to their chief and then their chief can help devise a plan for them. And we throw our recommendations in there as well. Um, actually miles made that, um, that little grading Rupert for us. So he's been doing good work. That's all. I hope that's all in war package, brother.
01:00:37
Speaker
That's awesome. I got a question for wit. Um, little earlier, you mentioned that there was a student based requirement. What were you talking about there? Oh, saying like what they need to come here as our student?
01:00:51
Speaker
Yeah. Is that what you're referring to? Yeah. yeah So Chief Nally kind of mentioned it and he shouted it up to Chief Wilson. um It's just that senior airmen, well, he wants staffs or GS8s within their first year.
01:01:08
Speaker
But I mean, Spilling side is kind of weird anyways, but. staffs And then at the same time, if they're past that year, but they still, the fire chief thinks they could use this course, um then yeah, fire it in there. it's on the chief's recommendation.
01:01:21
Speaker
And the same thing with senior airmen and GS sevens. They want those, if they're like, at like a seven to acts, you know, an acting crew chief, um or just has that ambition that the chief thinks that, Hey, let's send it.
01:01:33
Speaker
let's Let's send it. and Same thing with senior airmen. So senior airmen that are capable and can ride front seat, Send them here. And that's that's what... That's the like that the small window that we want right now.
01:01:48
Speaker
We covered a lot today, gents. I can't think of anything else to ask, really. um Sounds like an awesome course. it It really... You guys...
01:02:00
Speaker
and those before you were really thoughtful in how you developed it and the changes that you're making. I love Mike, you were mentioning and wit, I think you talked about it too, just kind of that subordinating your ego, having an open mind.
01:02:14
Speaker
um Just the the way that you guys are approaching this, it sounds excellent. It seems as though the future is bright with this force and it sounds to me like it's going to be in add incredible value to the force. And that's the whole intent, right? Yeah.
01:02:29
Speaker
make better leaders, better tacticians, and for them to pass on what they learn and practice here at the academy. Do you guys have anything else you you want to mention, you want to bring up? Or Chris, do you have any other questions related to the course?
01:02:47
Speaker
All right. Thought maybe one guy we got allowed on today. Well, then I'll do this, man. Like we'll give each one of you an opportunity to talk about anything else or, you know, your final thoughts, if you have any.
01:02:59
Speaker
um Again, we appreciate you coming on, but final thoughts, maybe words encouragement to prospective students or anything else you'd like to share before we wrap it up. Yeah.
01:03:10
Speaker
Or Mike, you want to go first? Oh, you can go ahead, Lois. Oh, no. I was going to say thank you Thank you for having us on the podcast. And um for those listening, I always say,
01:03:23
Speaker
it ah Be humble. um Don't be afraid to to go out and ask for training. um And if you don't have that opportunity, you know, do your own research, try your different things, see what works, what doesn't.
01:03:36
Speaker
And then don't be afraid to share that information with those around you, right? Because that's the angle we're just trying to bring everybody up. So, yeah, that's mine. don't be Don't be afraid to mess up. I mean, this is exactly where you want to do it right? In the training environment.
01:03:53
Speaker
One of my greatest mentors, his name is Mr. Gagne. He always said practice makes permanent, right? Because how you practice is how you perform in high-stress situation. And for six years straight, that was 100% true. So when you come here, for the students that are coming, just come again with open perspective and be willing to go all out.
01:04:18
Speaker
The being humble part is really important. We're not, it's not about being better than anybody. It's just about you're here to learn and get better. That's what the course is for. Yeah.
01:04:33
Speaker
And appreciate you all having us. Well, I would say it's the same thing. Like coming with the attitude is everything here. Um, we're, this course is not to check, uh, like your capabilities.
01:04:44
Speaker
Um, obviously it's, it's to make you better, but, This course is, i mean, it's in my intro slide. It's, I'm not stealing FUBU, but I'll do Bufu. It's by us for us, right? This isn't like that you need to know this stuff. It's literally...
01:05:00
Speaker
As a core, as an enterprise, this is you, like our target students are the core and we need to build that. And that's just going to be like, you know, the cure of cancer that COVID hit, like all this, you know, this fallout.
01:05:13
Speaker
Cause we are, we're, our bandwidth is too short now with Manning and all the tasks we get, even though our our leadership promises less, but we're always doing more. um We're pulling you away from all that. So you can just, we can concentrate on all of us.
01:05:27
Speaker
All of us together. It's not just all of us to you. It's like everybody is doing everybody here. And that's, I mean, just come with that attitude and let's all let's all get this together.
01:05:37
Speaker
It's not a competition. It's everybody is going to be better from coming here. And I absolutely appreciate, you know, us getting the word out, you inviting us on here. I'll definitely go um get McCreeth right after this, tell him you name dropped him, and I'll help Papa Bear Key up.
01:05:54
Speaker
ah Yeah, man, it was our pleasure. And thank you guys for agreeing to come on. um i couldn't I couldn't nail down Papa Bear Kehoe either ahead of this. We tried getting him on at one point.
01:06:06
Speaker
and And hey, listen to his defense. You know the course was in flux, right? Didn't know if it was going to happen or not. And in the developmental stages, it feels like we got you guys at the perfect time. Just coming off the first couple iterations.
01:06:17
Speaker
So thanks again, guys. And you guys have a good one. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Fire Dog Podcast. You find more episodes like this on our website, firedog.us, or wherever you listen to podcasts. We're also on social media. Check us out on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn at the Fire Dog Podcast. That is the Fire DAWG Podcast. Don't forget to subscribe, like, and follow to stay plugged into every new episode.
01:06:38
Speaker
We'd also appreciate it if you shared this podcast with your friends and coworkers, whether on social media or right there within your firehouse. This is Matt Wilson with Chris Boikley. and guests John Whitmire, Carlos Ballesteros, and Michael Miles.
01:06:53
Speaker
Until next time, stay safe.