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Readiness Series 1. Origin & Evolution of Air Force Force Generation
215 Plays13 days ago
This Readiness Series focuses on all aspects of Air Force firefighter waretime preparedness. Throughout the series, we will explore key military doctrine, techniques, tactics, and procedures, examine equipment packages, and much more. While the series emphasizes topics related to wartime readiness, all information shared is unclassified, publicly available, and free of sensitive content.
In this episode, Matt is joined by CMSgt Geoffry Wilson, the Air Force Fire Protection Career Field Manager. Chief Wilson and Matt delve into the origins of the Air Force’s Force Generation Models, as well as the Agile Combat Employment (ACE) model, which outlines how the Air Force plans to operate in a contested environment. They also explore the reasons behind the Air Force’s evolving strategies and how the Fire Service integrates into these new frameworks. Please note, the information shared is current as of December 2024 and may evolve as the Air Force continues to refine its approach.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Firedog Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
This is the Firedog Podcast.
Wartime Readiness Series Overview
00:00:13
Speaker
Welcome my name is Matt Wilson and thank you for joining us for episode one of the wartime readiness series on the fire dog podcast. The readiness series will focus on all aspects of air force firefighter wartime preparedness. Throughout the series we will explore key military doctrine, techniques, tactics and procedures, examine equipment packages and much more.
00:00:33
Speaker
While the series emphasizes topics related to wartime readiness, rest assured that all information shared is unclassified, publicly available, and free of sensitive content. In the first episode of the series, I'm joined with Chief Mass Sergeant Jeffrey Wilson, the Air Force Fire Protection Crewfield Manager.
Discussion with Chief Mass Sergeant Jeffrey Wilson
00:00:49
Speaker
Chief Wilson and I delve into the origins of the Air Force's force generation models, as well as the Agile Combat Employment Model, which outlines how the Air Force plans operate in a contested environment,
00:01:00
Speaker
We explore the reasons behind the Air Force evolving strategies and how the fire service integrates into these new frameworks. Please note the information shared is current as of December, 2024 and may evolve as the Air Force continues to refine its approach. It is my pleasure to welcome Chief Master Sergeant Jeffrey Wilson. All right, welcome Chief. Good to have you. Well, thank you. I'm glad to be here.
00:01:23
Speaker
For those who may not know who you are, our Air Force Fire and Emergency Services Career Field Manager, could you please introduce yourself before we get in and start talking about things? Yeah, um as you said, my name is Jeffrey Wilson. ah Been working in this awesome career field for the last almost 26 years now. Been all across the globe, joined in 1999.
00:01:44
Speaker
been to every Magcom you can name with the exception of a ATC.
Evolution of Air Force Deployment Strategies
00:01:49
Speaker
So I've kind of been all over the place and fortunately I got to spend some time in PACAF right before getting this position. So deeply immersed or immersed into what we want to talk about today and get after. so That's a little about me. Cool. We'll have more of a conversation hopefully in the future to talk about the crewfield manager side of things, if you're down for that conversation at some point. Always. But before we get into any of that, I want to kick off the readiness series by talking about Air Force Force Generation, Agile Common Employment.
00:02:23
Speaker
all of the things associated with it, maybe not all of the things, but a lot of the things, why we're doing it and as an air force and what that looks like with fire and emergency services. And so we'll kick off by talking about the air force force generation models.
Agile Combat Employment Strategies
00:02:42
Speaker
So first, why did the Air Force transition to this, what is it, employment model, deployment model, sourcing model? Yeah. So it's been a constant moment. And they recognized that you know we haven't changed our deployment scheme in over 20 years since we were in the Middle East. That's been the primary focus right since the
00:03:14
Speaker
9-11 attacks. We focused it. This worked. We had a platform setting things up, how to get after and provide that air superiority that we had out there. And as times shifted and we started looking at the capability of deploying at the time into a region against near peer adversaries, we recognized that we were way too heavy as an Air Force.
00:03:41
Speaker
Way too large, way too heavy. We can't just flow into some place, whether it be on boat or bringing in 17 C-17s to set up a bare base and say, boom, we're here. One, the locations might not have the infrastructure. Two, we are so spread across the globe as our entire missions are that there isn't dedicated capability to really provide that, right? On that quick, big, large scale. it Hundreds of UTCs spread across multiple bases, you know the unit type codes with all the equipment that everybody uses, not just fire. So they realized that we had way ah way outdated outdated capability.
00:04:21
Speaker
And so General Brown at the time was one that came in and said, no, he just came from PACF, took over as chief of staff of the Air Force, and was like, hey, We need a new way. We need a new direction.
Development of Deployable Combat Wings
00:04:33
Speaker
We are way too heavy. We are not light, lean, lethal, and agile the way we need to be. So put the heads to the table, started coming up with new things. They came out with the AfroGen initial piece with the XAB, EAB, RAB, basically taken
00:04:54
Speaker
55 total people from firefighters saying, hey, OK, we're going to dwindle down our big UTC capability of having stateside requirements at a deployed location in an expeditionary site, which didn't make any sense. And that was just our aspect. And we dwindled down a little bit, but the rest of the Air Force didn't. And so they took this to General Brown, and he came back and said, nope.
00:05:18
Speaker
That's not what we were talking about. You need to get smaller, still writing on 9C17s to try to get this package into a theater. So overall, they employed the actual XABs to try to dwindle down the footprint that we've had out in Afcent. And it's worked a little bit. Everyone got certain packages.
00:05:41
Speaker
we recognized we were still sourcing people from multiple locations just to have enough positions to go fill whatever upcoming deployment was out in Afsen. And while they put that into place for but two years, they implemented, they put that on the books and then started working on the next iteration.
00:06:05
Speaker
what's going What's it going to look like in 26? But how are we going to get after that? And so they made the decision on the ATFs, the Air Task Force. This is kind of a collaboration between where we were at with the XAB ABs and where we're going when it comes to a complete combat wing.
00:06:28
Speaker
And so that piece is there. It's there for like one cycle. um While we stand up all these deployment combat wings and more on a lower level, understand what a combat air based squadron does and how CE fits into those situations. And we're standing five of those up right now. Right. This going on, coming into, they're going to go fully supported by 26.
00:06:58
Speaker
I have the personnel actually aligned, tasked, sitting there
Focus on Peer Competitor Readiness
00:07:02
Speaker
to include the iron, you name it. And then we're going to transition into that next phase, starting in FY27, where from that point there's going to be a holistic understanding that we're going to have 24 deployment combat wings set up across the spectrum. That includes total force. So we are including the guard and the reserves.
00:07:27
Speaker
in that piece. So it's just a way not necessarily to stay relevant, but to stay agile and responsive to the multiple fronts that we have of YF or Gen has had to transition. Because on top of changing our status and at the time dealing with the near peer, we now know with the units of action and the letters that have been put out, you know it is now in great power competition. It's that GPC word that is thrown out. It's not near peer. It is peer.
00:07:55
Speaker
We have adversaries that are exactly capable of matching and meeting us. And the best way for defense is through deterrence, because no one wants that. No one should want the global you know conflict. But we have to be relevant, and we have to be ready. So the Air Force has seen that as a big push and is doing what they can to shift into that, to stay ahead of stay ahead of the the competitiveness, if you will. I'm trying to skirt that line so as to not bring anything up that I'm not supposed to on there well outside the of certain rooms. Allow me to talk then because I don't have the privilege of seeing all the things on the high side. Another big element to this is the, and you kind of alluded to it, but our traditional way of doing business makes us easy to target. And I know we're gonna talk about that with the agile scheme of maneuver.
00:08:58
Speaker
but I guess, um I'm sorry, agile common employment. yeah But with Air Force Force Generation, and you talk about we we need 17 C-17s and this logistically heavy, we've had the luxury of having
Comparisons with Other Military Branches
00:09:12
Speaker
air superiority since World War II. And we're in a position now where we potentially won't have air superiority.
00:09:20
Speaker
And so we need to be, from the onset, lean, agile, logistically lighter. And so really that's probably the biggest origin of the idea. And another big piece of this, from my understanding, from General Brown's perspective is we need units of action that are comparable to the other components services unit of action. right So the Navy has the carrier strike group and the Army has combat brigade teams. The Air Force traditionally, well so you know throughout the global war on terrorism, and from my understanding since about the 80s, have been you know going out in one to two to three to four
00:10:10
Speaker
four man size teams, four person size teams. I heard a detail the other day that the average unit type code, personnel UTC, is four and a half or something like that. Which is kind of crazy. And now we're going eventually, so.
00:10:29
Speaker
with the Air Task Force and the Department of Combat Wing, it's one unit type code. this is You have one unit of action, ah Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff, ah Defense Chief. Here is what the Air Force can do in a time of war. You have, I don't know, 400 airmen that you attach mission generation groups, and we'll talk about that maybe just a little bit after this, but um you have one unit of action that you can go You know used for warfare versus the crowdsourcing thing, right? It is gonna say it's kind of Randomly it kind of harkens back to what we were Set up to do under the air expeditionary wing of the late 90s they said that when I joined I happened to be a part of ACC and
00:11:22
Speaker
And at Mountain Home, it was a full component capability where the expectation under conflict and the planning was that us and Seymour Johnson would be able to basically get up and leave.
00:11:37
Speaker
leaving the skeleton crew there at the base. And you would have this continuity of forces, that all the personnel together. You had the 16s, 15s, B1s, 135s. That was our main group. So you had everything from bombers to you know fighters, plus refuelers. And the intent was just to be able to get up, go.
00:11:57
Speaker
set down somewhere else. Now, granted, the number of personnel going on that was a lot larger. right Just the for planning factors, they were talking an entire base. So it's interesting to see these rotation come back around, right? Because we did not use that after an 11. They kind of tore that up right after an 11 happened, said, nope, we need everybody. We're just going to source across the gamut. As you pointed out, though, that was during a level of air superiority, which we've always had. There hasn't had to be a thought process. How are we going to fight to get into a theater?
Role of Global Partnerships
00:12:31
Speaker
right we've we just We've taken that for granted for years. So I think that's the that's the evolution and the adjustment is how do we fight to get in into theater and yet still stay relevant? Because you're not going to look at not goingnna have tankers shooting missiles.
00:12:46
Speaker
right They're the only ones who can carry things over there. So we have to go lighter so we can get more pieces in there. And like you said, and we need to align it a little bit more with how the our other DOD agencies do it. And ironically, the Marine Corps fall in line with a lot of our solar capabilities, even though they sit there and reside within the Navy. but yeah Well, they have a lot. no I guess they have similar capabilities. Well, they have air capability, too, within the Marine Corps, and so maybe that's why they match well with us or do things similar to us, but I'm not sure. Yeah, I wasn't going to say. um Yeah, its so our traditional way of doing business is we go set up shop at a
00:13:31
Speaker
at a forward base and we stay there for, well, you know, an undetermined amount of time. yeah I think our lease in LUD is like, you know, when we first signed onto the lease it was like 99 years, something like that. So with no intentions of leaving, right? So we're in this future future potential warfare, you know we're not gonna have the luxury of staying in one spot. right you know That's how we have to plan. And so how do you how do you have a unit of action and then a scheme of maneuver that a you know allows for you to you know stay alive essentially and and i move backward and forward? That proactive, reactive scheme of maneuver mentality. And try and that's,
00:14:17
Speaker
yeah you You brought it up, we're not going into a location to be an enduring spot. right If we have to utilize these unit of actions in even more than just the Pacific, there's the capability of trying to build these partnerships and these relationships that we have with all our other nations, and just ah to have that set so we might not have to take as many people or equipment pieces in so we can still provide the defensive capabilities. that's That's one of the bigger things that we come I think we overlook a lot. There's a lot of conversations happening at all different levels to provide those accesses, to kind of get in, to be able to show up, to move, be there, smile, say hi, launch the missions, get on your next aircraft, and get out. So it's I think that's the hard part is we talk about F4Gen and the evolution is actually helping understand how the hub slash mob, when it comes to the unit of action,
00:15:19
Speaker
DCW is actually going to be executed. Because where are we going to set up a new base? Right now, I'm in the odds. but we have community or We have partnerships and capabilities in so many locations. Do we need to go open another all you need in Australia? You know what I mean? It's like, eh.
00:15:44
Speaker
yeah so You're talking about the organic capabilities that already exist and how we're going to leverage those? Yeah. Basically, you know in in all facets, an airfield is an airfield. yeah right and If you look into the National Defense Strategy, the National Security Strategy, or the National Military Strategy, it ah you could see a common theme with the point that you're making is partnership, partnership, partnership, partnership.
00:16:08
Speaker
yeahp So, there's really no more important, from ah from a strategic perspective in the United States, there's no more important detail to this than partnership. We're not going to succeed without those partnerships. Yeah, the partnership, cooperation, and overflight access. right big Access to the airspace. Access to the airspace is a big one.
00:16:31
Speaker
yeah Because there might be locations that don't want the own they don't want to rock the boat on both sides too much. we okay You can't land here, but you can fly through our space if you need to. They're not supporting. and there and there you know Looking at it from kind of a detached perspective, they're in a tough spot. right If I'm India, yeah if i'm in if I'm in the Philippines, like i'm I'm actually closer to China, so if things go bad,
00:16:55
Speaker
you know I'm gonna have to contend with this country, so let me play the fence and see you know which side ends up coming out on top. I know, but and no by the way, one of those smaller locations might not have the level of military, or don't have the level of military that we do, and if we're running into issues, you know like you said, and they're close to there, don't wanna burn that bridge when we don't have the military capability that y'all do and you're having a hard time. so Yeah, that's complex. So talking, we're talking about the evolution of these fourth generation
Transition to Smaller, Agile Units
00:17:30
Speaker
models. So we talked about the XAB, we talked about XAB, which is
00:17:37
Speaker
oh EAB, b establishing the airbase, OAB, operating the airbase, RAB, robusting the airbase, and then on those there's mission generation blocks, so aircraft mission generation stuff, if yeah fighter squadrons, bombers,
00:17:56
Speaker
tankers, right? The iron, yeah. The iron that actually goes and, you know, does the the warfare piece of things. And then the, you know, the OABs, the EABs, all that is the support elements, everything, and then their C2. So that is kind of the way things exist now. And it's not, it's a little bit different, but not too much different from the traditional way. Is that right? Yeah. I mean, the establishment and requirements are there. It's just now a pared down level.
00:18:24
Speaker
right So we take the XAB, taking it from ah from a CE perspective, the initial XAB was like 400 and some months, engineers to include us, right and we were bringing 55 to the fight.
00:18:37
Speaker
between the operate the base and establish the airbase. The robust airbase, even though we saved 85, that was kind of dead in the water. It never even made it out the gate. It was kind of the same thing, but like painted in a different way. yeah like yeah We're like, no, we don't want to get away from this crowdsourcing. I want these UTCs, the ones that I need, and I want to leave the ones I don't need. Yeah.
00:18:59
Speaker
So it, it was that buffet menu, right? Then we were trying to provide, make things more appealing, but it just wasn't the, it wasn't this Guinea option. It was still, it was still the big buffet, and not the actual slim down salad that you actually need to go forward. So right now, as we transition, you know, even into the ATFs under these task forces, the UTCs should get are pared down before,
00:19:30
Speaker
There's a lot more under the ATS. It should be like about eight. I want to say is the the mindset to get four UTC's. Sorry. It's four UTC's coming from three to four bases, right? To fill in that window and employ when their window is up. Where the XAB was 80 UTC's.
00:19:52
Speaker
Now, that doesn't mean these UTCs are or changed any differently. It's just the selection, right? It's the forced presentation, how you provide that to the joint services if need be, or you provide that up, right? Here's what it is. It's just less, we still operate the same, bring a few less people as an engineering capacity. But it limits the amount of bases that are tagged.
00:20:19
Speaker
And the follow on with the great power competition and actually going the DCW is is still the same intent to just have one UTC from one base. So that unit of action will just get up and go because right now that that hurt.
00:20:36
Speaker
on supporting 80 UTCs across 63 bases is impactful to 63 bases. Under ATF, you're only impacting four bases, three to four per UTC. It's still hurtful, but the future piece to this is to limit the impacts far spread. If that means we're breaking a base, got it. That's the risk level, right? That decision mantra mindset of how to make these real time risk based decisions to say, hey,
00:21:04
Speaker
This is what we're willing to accept and do here. Here's your capability. Go forth and deter and defend.
Integration and Training Challenges
00:21:11
Speaker
So ADUT sees a bunch of bases crowdsourced through F4 Gen original XAB. ATF is four bases. Deployable combat wing DCW is eventually one place. Right. So that's the evolution of this. And in fiscal year,
00:21:34
Speaker
twenty six 26, or so this summer, this past summer, and now we are in, wait, no, we're in fiscal year 25. We're in 25. Man, I'm getting way ahead of myself. In fiscal year 26, the first air task force is set to be employed or deployed. Yes, 26.1.
00:21:52
Speaker
And the first ATFs have stood up the summer of 2024. And so they're now stood up and they've been set up for a few months. And so they're starting the gears are starting to turn for that second iteration of this F4 Gen. So this is a slow moving ship. you know People have to understand that you can't just overnight create an ATF and, hey, go deploy next spring, please.
00:22:15
Speaker
you know and ah So another element to this and kind of transitioning to talk about the ATF with a little bit more is this puts the the team together.
00:22:26
Speaker
early on instead of through our traditional means of doing things, the crowdsourcing we show up D day or D plus zero and say, get to know your team and at the same time, okay, go and do the combat mission, right? And so there's, you don't know each other. It takes a few months to to understand each other. You didn't train together. And so you're learning each other. You learning each other's capabilities at the same time, trying to do the combat mission.
00:22:55
Speaker
in the future you know ATF DCW now you're gonna have known each other theoretically you know two years or a year and a half prior to having to go into theater so that's another element to this right so they've showed up the summer of 24 and the team is kind of building now those there's six air tasks force across the the United States, and they've they're in place while the leadership staff is. And of course, there's four bases that support ah you know each of those ATFs, and they're going to start coming together. They still got to do ready airman training. They still got to do those traditional things, those traditional training things, but they're going to come together more often, get to know each other. It's going to be the same people, you know unless somebody gets sick or something's happened, of course, you got to replace through that.
00:23:45
Speaker
um but they're gonna train together so that when they do have to deploy fiscal year 26, you know, they have a relationship established and they train together, they know each other, and hopefully that makes it more effective. Right, and not only that is, even though this is titled with an ATF, the same intent, right, we're we're showcasing what the future DCW is gonna look like too all at the same time. Working out those kinks, yeah, 100%, kinks and issues, because as we all know right now,
00:24:15
Speaker
You mentioned it, I mentioned the ATFs being from three to four bases to source. If we keep it on the firefighter level, we're still having three installations, support one ATF. Generally speaking, between the combat support, combat squadron support team or sustainment team. Yeah, combat squadron support team. OK. Yeah. Between the CSST and the CSST-L, which is the lead,
00:24:43
Speaker
you know We're still bringing the same collective people, 27. That's what we presented to the force. And future FY27 and beyond under the DCWs, that will just be all from that one installation.
00:24:58
Speaker
And if we work things right, we'll have that before everyone starts getting upset, well, I can't lose 27 people from my base. And we're we're working that. As you said, nothing happens quick. And at the same time, this transition over these next couple of years and what we started from back in 2018, 2019 going forward,
00:25:15
Speaker
has been some of the quickest transition the Air Force has seen. I mean, this is one of those few times. You're rewriting everything. 100%. And we know how to fly the plane. We got the plane in the air, and now we're rebuilding. We're really good at it. Yeah. But we're rebuilding it in air. I can't. We got to do it. We got to do this speed of relevancy. Got to go. So it's a very interesting mindset, because you mentioned the ATF cycles, right? The personnel, the command teams are there.
00:25:42
Speaker
the supporting location have been identified the members at those supporting locations have been identified. been identified and are at least on the books for being able to be tasked and grabbed. While we're still in that, you know, we're not in that employ phase yet. They're not there. They're in that six month cycle and or 12 month cycle out, assemble and organize or train and certify, train and certify and get ready to employ. and So it's a constant change, knowing that, you know, you mentioned ready Airmen training, and then we got the the Airmen,
00:26:17
Speaker
you got RAT, ready Airmen training, and then you got um another one, ART. I just dropped the, it's another type of ready training, but it's just the different phases that we're gonna go to, like the 100, 200, 300, 400 level. Yeah, I've lost track of the acronyms myself.
00:26:37
Speaker
Yeah, and that and that completely kills the MCA mindset, right? Cause we've lined, you know, we talk mission capable airmen. We still have it on some of our slides. That three letter term is gone.
00:26:48
Speaker
because everybody's expected under the rat. Multi-capable Airmen. Now it's mission ready Airmen. Right. Mission ready Airmen. And so that's the acronym I think you're searching for, mission ready Airmen training. Mission ready Airmen training. No, because that's still the rat. There's a there's an advanced, right? Yeah. So there's advanced readiness training under the same mantra. So we got the 100, 200 phases that you can do institutionally at your home station going over all that, you know, CBTs.
00:27:17
Speaker
um for us putting on JFire, doing things like that, and versus the 300, 400 level, where it's more involvement needing to be on the ground, whether you're doing C2 assistance or you're executing agile combat employment with the proactive reactive schemes of maneuver and how you're playing into that, breaking out into your three-man teams, how you survive in those environments. That's kind of the direction the advanced training is going. And again, it's it's still moving.
00:27:46
Speaker
you know there's there's there's We've had elements of this. like This isn't something completely new. We've kind of called it something. I like to use Silver Flag as it the example. right there so We used to call our our ah readiness training you know tier one, two, three, four. And so and now we're calling we're calling it 100, 200, 300, 400 level. right So there's always been tiers to this training and this is just a more organized approach it seems um and and I guess the new the new piece of this is now we're gonna get together as an air task force or as a deployable combat wing and train together whereas traditionally
00:28:28
Speaker
I went to Silver Flag. I ah really immersed with firefighters and CE and for support and really, you know, and for one week, right? So it's just, I guess, an expansion of kind of a little bit of what we used to do. um And I guess more of a, you know, more of a organized approach to it. And if I'm off on that,
00:28:54
Speaker
No, no it's it is. it's what It's what the intent behind Silver Flag used to be and what we were trying to do. Yes. You want that that group training, that same mentality, which is the downfall of the transition for Silver Flag, since they went but went away from being a certified certifying phase location. right We're still going to have silver flag, we are still going to get after the same training, the 100, 200, even some of the 300 level training there, but that's more for an enterprise wide attendance and still getting back on that was a 36 month cycle, 32 month, 36 month for personnel to go instead of adjust in time because they'll get there just in time when they're actually chopped over to the ATF.
00:29:42
Speaker
Right? Because that will be a full wing. It's kind of like an installation doing a readiness exercise validation. Or what do we call them in the in the past? You know, you got your phase one and phase two, you know, big readiness exercises to see how you process through the lines, how you did all this. This is the boots on the ground. How do you get up in the air and get out to these other spots? That's what they'll do in their piece. And Silver Flag will still help us continue our awareness and foundational training.
00:30:10
Speaker
just like we can do back at the installations. Just because you're not assigned to an ATF doesn't mean you're done with readiness training. Sure. Everyone's got to keep up with the same level, the 10 to 10 requirements. it so It's an interesting cycle, especially when you think about the the ATF and their transition over the ah personnel assigned, right how they're being dav coded and who's moving. and It's all just to change by 27.
00:30:41
Speaker
to your point you made earlier that really for firefighters, though, and how our UTC is postured, how we are built into these UTCs or this UTC eventually, um it hasn't really changed too much, right? We are kind of bringing the same people. We're like, yeah, we're pretty much, you know, we're we're staying the course here. We got this figured out. And credit to Chief Winkleman and the team back in 2019, it's like hit the ground running. It's like, here here's our answer to it.
00:31:10
Speaker
yeah um And you know now the rest of the Air Force seems to be catching on. And there's a lot more, it's a lot more complex maybe for other career fields.
Personnel Safety in Deployments
00:31:21
Speaker
And you know maybe not, I don't know, but but I guess to answer my own question, or am I right in saying that we haven't changed too much in how we present firefighters? Yeah, we we have not changed much other than that adjustment from 55 down to 27, right? Keeping that mentality.
00:31:39
Speaker
um I think the hardest part that we have had is actually the fact that understanding we don't need to take into an expeditionary location a stateside mainland full department mentality. i don't I don't have a levels of service on an expeditionary location like I do in the states. We're taking more risk. Yeah, we're we're taking more risk. The risk is inherent to warfare, and we understand that. Exactly. And so we're going to accept more risk at these further locations in the name of staying lean, agile, right and maneuverable.
Deployment Vehicle Evolution
00:32:20
Speaker
Right. And they did really good with that, you know what delivering how the vehicles are going to be, what those different forward operating sites would look like versus the contingency locations, how the
00:32:29
Speaker
the 4F9FZ, the dagger vehicle that Polaris worked out. And there's been so many iterations on that from some initial thoughts from back when Chief Master Sergeant ah Stinson was at Masawa and the adjustments that they wanted even a ladder on it to be able to help pull the thing up next to an aircraft to already ladder it and can just climb right up into the thing just to the point of where we're at that we've actually purchased these light lean vehicles now to be on the ground has been some great Great advancements, but yeah, personnel and mindset. We are there and to protect and save the people. And that that part doesn't change from our mentality. Less of a focus on infrastructure, not no focus but on iron aircraft or infrastructure, but less of a focus on that more
00:33:21
Speaker
of a focus, well, I want to say more, our primary focus is people. yeah we can If we can save people, we can put them into other aircraft, we can put them into other buildings, we can put them on the other bases.
00:33:36
Speaker
um It's easier to replace aircraft, it's hard to replace people, that's kind of the mentality, right? 100%.
Air Task Forces Command Structure
00:33:46
Speaker
Just to finish talking about the air task force, another element to this that I wanted to mention was, well, I guess how does this look broadly? And so there's the command element, right? And there's the ASAP, which is something new that the air force.
00:34:01
Speaker
It's not new in the joint environment. It's not new in the Department of Defense. It's kind of new in the Air Force and how we organize. So we got the A-staff and where we fall as firefighters, as civil engineers, force support, med group, security forces, we fall into a combat air-based squadron. Is that right? Yes. And you're right, the the A-staff mentality that's, you know,
00:34:28
Speaker
It's been a long time coming for implementation at a wing deployable concept, right? Because we have we've had the staff positions, every match com, and then you talk about the joint services and different things. But yes, we will be falling under the the CABs, the Combat Air Base Squadron.
00:34:46
Speaker
Within the ATF, within a deployable combat wing. Yes. So and it's the same thing, right, the way we're going to play. um is there's not a big transition to that piece. The transition will be the understanding that, you know, there's under the a step in that mentality, there is no mid level groups.
00:35:09
Speaker
Right. So even in that a step, there's no intermediary. Right. Your base squadron. Those commanders were the decent. Yeah. And, you know, the intent Honestly, it comes 27 as we're trying to have at least one 32 Echo up on the A staff. So we have a CE officer at least present. Maybe an A4.
00:35:30
Speaker
Right. A-47 is what they're looking at it. and Crazy. Hmm. Weird numbers or letters. It makes sense. Numbers. Heard those before. ah you know So they're they're they're looking, but that's still being adjusted. What's that officer going to look like? Where's it going to come from? Is it just going to be a captain? how are they Are they just the new intermediary? Are they a planner? Do they know? Is it just engineering? How does that affect the emergency services since You know, we really don't from any of the 789 levels have deeply certified officers with the exception of EOD, but they're fewer and far between than the rest of the officers. Sitting in those positions to be able to speak
00:36:12
Speaker
adequately, jointly, and to the commander on exactly what those emergency service capabilities are. But without having someone on staff, they know even less, sure right? So nothing's being brought up. So that's been one of the pushes in these pads and the directions, the program active action directives to figure out what does right look like on the A staff from a 32 Echo officer standpoint.
00:36:38
Speaker
It's a hit on the point that this is a slow-moving ship and kind of a, I don't wanna say tough evolution, but this is just an example of, it's gonna take time to figure these things out. We gotta try it out to see if it works, right? And people have to,
00:36:54
Speaker
learn this stuff. and you know you say like well You're in the Air Force, you should know the A staff, you should know how that that tier that leadership tier or that leadership intermediary works. But no, we don't in the Air Force because again, we haven't worked like this. The the the Army has worked like this and they understand it. like If you ask a private in the Army,
00:37:16
Speaker
you know what A2 is, oh, intelligence, or J2 or whatever, they're gonna know that, and the Air Force, you guys can airman that, they're like, I have no idea. like i know I know who my supervisor is. you know I might know who my commander is, yeah squadron commander, all right. Right. So we have to kind of relearn this stuff. And again, this is it's just another way to, and and if you go look at the national defense strategy, again, like being, ah we talked about partnerships and having those relationships with coalition nations, but also working together as a joint force, like we're not going to be effective if we cannot work together as a joint force. And so the A staff is another element to that. Like,
00:37:57
Speaker
all the other components are doing this and organizing this way, we have to get on board. We have to understand this. 100%. We got to get on board. the It just starts talking that common language across the board. Right. Right. Which Air Force is not great at. We have been really good at creating all of our own acronyms and speak and you name it. Everyone else is doing it within our sister services, we should be doing that, jumping on their boards that we would not provide the same force presentation capability through a common level. and Just for those listeners who may not understand, like what are these what are the elements of the ASAP? That's okay. you know here Here they are. So A1 manpower personnel, you know that one may be more familiar to you than the others. A2 is intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance, all that.
00:38:46
Speaker
A3 is another common one that may maybe somebody understands is operations. A4, that's where we follow logistics and engineering. A5 planning integration, A6 communications, A7 installations, and mission support, we also fall into that.
00:39:01
Speaker
um to an extent, right? And then a eight would be strategic plans of programs, eight, nine studies analysis assessments, eight, 10 strategic deterrence and nuclear integration. So not all of those are gonna be necessary within an air task force if you want a combat wing, but those that's what it is. And there's awesome things to go look up and and see that. I know there's a lot of briefs out there for people that want to get out there and read about it and check it out, but it's good information to know.
00:39:33
Speaker
And this is something that we'll understand more as we integrate into this stuff, right? Like once you get assigned to an air task force and eventually deploy a compact wing and you're, you know, you're trying to do day-to-day business and like, who do you got to talk to? We'll go talk to A6, right? Yep. And, and who's, yeah, who's planning it,
Mission Command and Decentralized Execution
00:39:55
Speaker
who's doing this stuff, right? When it comes to that command echelon under an ATF, because you have the commander and the A staff is supporting the commander.
00:40:03
Speaker
And then the special staff is supporting the commander and the cabs and the mission generation, mission force generation are both broke out under that commander. It's an organizational structure, original nightmare to start until one looks at it really gets after it. and Yeah, but until you have those relationships built, until you know what you need to go find, you know, for someone like, who who am I talking to? Who's going to be my control officer for some cooperation location? Knowing that you have to go to A5 to go find that desk officer that's going, hey, you're the people that reach out and do all the theater security cooperation movements or these relationships. But do you need that at the cabs?
00:40:50
Speaker
at Our level, maybe not, but it's still good to know. right we should we We talk about that from firefighting. If you're sitting in the backseat, you should at least know what the driver's doing. If you're the driver, you should know what the crew chief is doing, right what those cables are. should Always know that one up or that next level, who to ask, who to find out so that way you're not ever stuck. Especially as a leader. Absolutely. so if you If you're a senior NCO or even an NCO, it's probably good to understand this stuff.
00:41:15
Speaker
especially if you think so you can start looking at the message down. Yeah, we you start looking at our our or combat support. Our seals. There we go. I come at the contingency locations. If you think about ACE and that scheme of maneuver. Who's the person who's the NCO going? Just after.
00:41:36
Speaker
Right. So having an understanding of of what these layers do when they're sitting in some remote location with a captain that's falls under the A3 of the errors, you know, the flyers. How do you talk to them? What's the what are you trying to get after? How do you relay that information? So it's important for NCOs to really know.
00:41:56
Speaker
And that's that's honestly kind of a good segue into mission command. um and I didn't have it written down to talk about mission command. But mission command is essentially decentralized execution, decentralized authority.
00:42:13
Speaker
and and what every person within the organization understanding the intent of the mission so that without direction, without leadership necessarily, like every every person is a leader, you know, and especially those NCOs, those lower level NCOs, but mission command is them understanding what the intent is, what the mission is, what they are allowed to do and not allowed to do, and then executing it without direction, right?
00:42:40
Speaker
Yeah. And so and so understanding the a staff, understanding the organization is an element to that. You have to under you have to know what the staff is. You have to know what this piece of the a staff is in charge of. You have to know what this piece of the cabs
Collaboration in Effective Deployments
00:42:56
Speaker
a combat everybody squadron. and is so that you know so that it all connects for you so that you can execute on that mission command at a contingency location. Yeah. On a simple level, i kind of I relate it in my mind to, you talked about the decentralized execution, right? No one that that people can make the decisions on the ground to do stuff. I relate it to an Afto 88 setup.
00:43:23
Speaker
you know, if you're C2, if you're chief two going out to some location. in your crew chiefs, know the AFTOs and know how they're gonna set up on an aircraft. You don't have to get on the radio and tell people where to go. What section? If it's, if everyone is trained right, done right, followed through, read them, it should be a, I trust you to execute. Here's what it is. Only difference is, when you get out to these little CO locations, there's no fallback. There's no chief two sitting in a vehicle to catch you going to the wrong quadrant or the wrong section. It's a, you have to be knowledgeable enough
00:43:58
Speaker
to be able to go relay the risk, the information to that flying commander, and then be willing to just make the decisions right there. You have no additional oversight. You're you're there. you You are it. You might not have any comms going back to anybody else. That commander, that captain that's running the base is the DCOM installation.
00:44:19
Speaker
might be your only oversight. You better have a good relationship with that person too. 100%. And their focus this might be something else. Sure. because They're worried about the aircraft. And if you don't have an incident, you're like, all right, what do you got to do? Subordinate your ego. Yeah. And work well with them. This is kind of like that my pleading. And I think that most of our airmen now, future NCOs and people that may have not not even joined yet.
00:44:44
Speaker
But from what I see at my level I think most of our people are capable with that but I know that we can get into these Competitions of ego and not just airman NCOs, but at every level right an important element to this mission command and being at that furthest point of the fight is subordinate in your ego and be able to work well with this because if you can't work well with that individual and you don't have a good relationship then you can't advocate for what's important to to our piece. And they're not going to want to listen to you. And you know it's just counterproductive. so yeah well Two, especially if you don't sound like you know what you're talking about.
00:45:19
Speaker
you know if you want them to buy in when you're actually coming up and presenting something to these officers. and Unfortunately, yeah if you're a junior NCO, not taking anything away from you. You've made some great decisions and you've read stuff, and you know stuff, but it's that presentation, right? It's that relationship. How do you work that presented check, that ego to make sure you are able to get what it is you're seeking?
00:45:40
Speaker
to get across, even if that's finding the right, the best location to go move the dagger to because you want additional shade or a better environment. You know, it's how do you go talk to them and relay the actual information and risk to them without causing those egos or those personalities to come out? Because we're talking junior and CEO. We love our staff sergeants and our tech sergeants talking captains.
00:46:08
Speaker
Sometimes there's you know, they're still holding the water to trying to be in for how many years they are and still Yeah, it's a it's a it's a fine line because you got personalities are everywhere There was another point I was gonna bring it back here, but it was So we're eventually, you know moving on to deployable combat wings. We've hammered it pretty hard I don't want to get too much into it but you know, basically deployable combat wing is a fewer bases, one base versus four is what we're sourcing from. And so that's the, that's the idea. That's what the air force's aim is.
Institutional Wings and Support
00:46:44
Speaker
Um, and, but I think largely, and there'll be some, I'm sure changes come as this, you know, the ATFs that stood up this summer as they work out some of the kinks, we'll see some of the changes come through that, but really like the foundation of this is kind of there.
00:47:00
Speaker
with the ATF and eventually Deployable Combat Wing is what it's going to look like. But I wanted to mention also some of the other units of action. So what does this mean for like air education and training? What does this mean for testing? um you know You talk about Nevada Test and Training Range or the like the Utah Training Range and some of these places that test like Edwards, um like how do they integrate into this? Well,
00:47:25
Speaker
There's another unit of action that they're calling institutional wings, right? that So they're going to be in garrison focused on those missions like logistics, training, testing, while there's deployable combat wings.
00:47:40
Speaker
that worry about, you know, forward deployment. And then there's airbase wings, because another question is like, well, what about home station mission? Are we saying that that's not important? Like, let's say, I'll take for example, I don't know if this is a good example, but here at Ileson, there's the the aerospace deterrence mission for, you know, US s Northcom. You know, like, what does how does that look? And all of this, there's going to be airbase wings that support these deployable combat wings. um But I don't know if you want to talk on that or any. So I I guess I look at it as as we see it get adjusted when it comes to the combat wings. you know And you mentioned you got the the combat wings in general. You got the deployable combat wing. You got your airbase wing, which is your your infrastructure, your home station requirements, and then the institutional
00:48:25
Speaker
And for lack of a better word, I'm going to change it. They're still calling and catching it in place at some locations. In place combat combat with ICW. Knowing the institution is out there. People that are going to stay and have a separate mission, like um the Malmstroms, the FE Warrens of the world, that you don't necessarily have a flight mission, so you don't have an iron, but you have the personnel. um When it going back to the DCW piece, it's I'm trying to tie in that that question. d The wings are still important. The home station requirements are still there. The air bases are going to be provided the personnel to maintain the installation. The test ranges are all still going to be supported. The additional um missions put on certain locations, like the Minots,
00:49:23
Speaker
in the Ozwirs, where they have a separate, in the dais locations, where they have separate missions that are tied to ah their aircraft capabilities. Those will still be there. We're still going to get after it. We're still going to find the right ways. And whether there's a DCW attached to the air base wing or not, you know there' there's going to be a going period to figure out how these are going to work. I think that's why we're also going with only five to start with.
00:49:54
Speaker
because I was going to say, things are things are change or potentially going to change, and they're still kind of evolving and figuring it out. Right. as As you said, nothing's moving quickly, but we are moving very quickly all at the same time, and yet change is never quick.
00:50:11
Speaker
And we have to figure out some of these parts. Who's going where? um How are we going to source full 27 personnel at at some base? And I know in the back of minds, there are questions of what about those bases that have military ADAM that are considered institutional slash in place locations?
Recruitment and Manpower Planning
00:50:31
Speaker
Well, maybe we move the military. Maybe we take those funded positions and chop them over to somewhere else to get the civilians that institutional.
00:50:40
Speaker
locations that they're there to support that mission and you've moved the military over to this other spot. But how does that work and how quickly does that work? I mean, we just got done with our program objective memorandum, the palming for manpower for FY27. And that's just trying to fill our 2,176 vacancies that we have on the UMDs for the foam.
00:51:09
Speaker
You know, and we're not even going to discuss or have a topic on NDAA as a separate entity in and of itself. So it's like, that's how far reaching and ahead we have to be. And and so we're already bringing people in in 27's execution for us, right? For the actual minds of the DCWs.
00:51:29
Speaker
And we're just now trying to talk manpower, and it's not just fire, it's across the board. yeah Yeah. And so now do you increase the in-strength? Have we got the congressional approval that the military can actually get more military members? Or do we subside all the civilians? Is there an appetite in America to to have an in-strength that big? I don't think so. I don't think there's an appetite even from the congressional side to even have the discussions on it.
Airmen Development Command Transition
00:51:55
Speaker
Yeah. They're struggling even with, with recruitment now from what I understand. so So they met, they met all the goals this year. Yeah. And I did read that, but I remember, you know, you, you always hear about like, Oh, there's a struggle with recruitment. There's a struggle with recruitment. And then they met it. Right. But I feel like those recruiters were probably working their tails off. Yeah. And did so credit, credit to those guys yeah and girls, but it it doesn't mean the struggle wasn't there, right you know? Yeah. We are constantly struggling. Well, to your point, ah that puts into perspective,
00:52:23
Speaker
the the slow evolution of all of this stuff and so those questions i guess my questions about institutional wings and airbase wings and da da da da like that's not that stuff is not established but that's the idea like the idea is that our Air Force leaders and and Department of Defense leaders understand the importance of these home station missions. They understand the importance of air education training. They understand the importance of testing and development. That stuff's not going to go away. They're trying to figure out what that looks like in with with integrating the deployable combat wings. so And you bring it up, we talk about what does that look like for Airmen. And that's why AETC is transitioning to the Airmen Development Command, ADC. That's a thing.
00:53:06
Speaker
and they're They're changing the name it hasn't been officially done yet, but it is happening. And that piece is all about getting that readiness training implemented early on out the gate, right at the you start that ah basic training. Now, I haven't tracked and followed basic training enough to know if we went away from the week long stuff that was going on when I came through because I'm old, it was two days. It was almost 48 hours of straight nonstop. You were up the entire time. You were out rucking, hiking, dropping stuff, doing whatever. I know it went to the week long mentality of warrior week. I believe it was at the school house. I believe that's what I went through. And I don't know if under ADC, if they've transitioned anything to a new
00:53:50
Speaker
Element yet. I know there is discussions. how do we get How do we get this set as similar to the Marine Corps or the Army? How do we get that warrior mentality first and foremost as a foundational skill before moving on to the technical training side of our AFSCs? So those are discussions and things there so that when you get them, when we get our new Airman Big A coming to us, they have that we're not starting at ground zero.
00:54:20
Speaker
Yeah, the building blocks are kind of and the foundation has been set for. them Yeah. Yeah. One point I wanted to make with all of this is, you some people may ask like, why why is it taking so long for, and I'll ask myself the same question, why is it taking so long to get this readiness series out to the force? Well, a large part of it is because this stuff has been since 2019 and the idea to have a readiness series for a fire emergency service here on the FireDuck podcast is,
00:54:51
Speaker
um It started in 2022, the idea, it's like, how do we communicate all of this stuff? How do we communicate the concept of employment to the force? Oh, let's use this medium, this podcast medium. But ah we I've kind of held back the reins a little bit along with some other people in the working group that I'm on, because this stuff is just so, it's changing so rapidly. And like, what we think is,
00:55:16
Speaker
that solidified through XAB is just going away, right? And now we're talking about, so I'm glad that we slow played this in talking about these kinds of things. I feel like we're to a point now where it's like, it makes, we're getting closer to what it's actually going to look like. Yes. I mean, you were on the working group. You look back and remember if you would have started talking about this under the XAB with the the 55 total personnel between the the E, the O, and the R. It's completely different now. You would have done something. In 2022, we came out with our first contact beginning at 23, but it was developed through 22, right?
00:55:56
Speaker
So January, the new 23 con up and we already have a new con up back out there that was came out in 24. And as of these program directives I was reading and commenting on and provide information on last month, there's going to be changes that are going to need to take place in the con up in the con up. And in some of our documentation here,
00:56:22
Speaker
We just got done with the TTP. the ttp it is being It is being routed right now for General Heartless' signature. um Six months, I'll probably have to redo it again, because there is so much change that is coming that we don't want to stop progress. We don't want to stop not have this conversation, because we need to start having it out there, and but know that we're still changing.
00:56:45
Speaker
i mean capabilities levels Capability Levels Playbook, which is a guide for air-based wing commanders over what to expect from the fire departments that have to chop personnel over to the DCWs, has been published and put out. it It took about a month and a half from thought to two-letter coordination and approval.
00:57:12
Speaker
So we would get this book and we're provided an annex, hey fire, take a look at this. What is it you do or what's gonna happen to the base if you can't or if you have to move seven to 10 to 27 people over? Oh, populate this two pages worth of it, give us all the information. You got it today, I need it tomorrow at noon. So it's, we have to be reactive and moving just as quick and pay attention detailed. Fortunately, we had it written in the AA.
00:57:39
Speaker
It provides a lot of the verbiage, maybe not the same intent, but it provides a lot of verbiage. But this is a document that's actually out there now that commanders are starting to hear about. And yet some of the MatchCom commanders still haven't fully read it or or understood, understand what it means. And just tying in that it's slow moving and yet fast all at the same time.
Firefighter Deployment in Agile Environments
00:58:00
Speaker
There are changes. At least one thing's not changing.
00:58:05
Speaker
the amount of people we're sending, and the fact that we're getting the daggers. Those things are moving. It's a good segue into like what does our capability look like. And we've hit on quite a bit of it. But I'd like to you know maybe dig into a few of the details. So again, our our problem statement is that we need to be light, lean, and lethal, and that we need to work within this agile common employment scheme of maneuver. ah We've talked about how many firefighters are coming to the fight.
00:58:33
Speaker
you know But how how does that look? is Let's say we we are deployed and there is gonna be some kind of scheme of maneuver within our deployment. So what do we what does it look like for us as firefighters? So for us, it looks like three as the bare basic, the bare bones based on how many shit how many aircraft are going out and where they're going. I say that is it's risk determined by the commanders. If you're sitting, say we set up a base.
00:59:02
Speaker
and you know you have 27 firefighters there to support that base in any other position that happens. You have one nine level, either three seven nine one or three seven zero zero. You're gonna have four seven levels, then you're gonna have 12, 12 to 14, five levels, and then you're gonna have some three levels. So your command structure and capability, if they have to move forward,
00:59:29
Speaker
is to split them. right We're going to leave seven at the main base. So you just took a bunch of risk, if that's what the commander wants based on the scheme of maneuver. So you had 9,000 gallons of water available there because you had all 27 personnel. And now I'm going to kick 10 out to one forward operating site somewhere and the other 10 off to another one. Well, those seven people aren't going to be able to bring 9,000 gallons of water if you have a bunch of P-19 Charlies. That's nine trucks. You only got seven peeps. It's simple firefighting math.
00:59:57
Speaker
um So from there, you know those 10 will be able to support three sites, the one that they're at. And then going into a location, you can send three people. They could either be on a C130 and throw on the dagger, which is the 4F9FZ, which only takes up you know takes up two technically pallet spaces.
01:00:23
Speaker
but You got your three people who go on there with that vehicle, throw your gear inside of it, get your MREs, your personal water and your sleeping bags and fly with that C-130 crew that's going out with all the other people on that same plane that are to support this location other than the pilots. And you're going to drop in. They're going to leave and you're going to be there to support and provide and have just the three of you.
01:00:48
Speaker
Again, it's all risk-based on what that commander at that particular location is willing to do and accept based on the information the directives they've been given.
01:01:02
Speaker
So and for people to understand it, and this is all in the concept of employment, so if you haven't dug into it, get into it and and look in to see kind of what it says, but we can support within, let's say with that 27 firefighter contingent, can support up to one, two, three, four, five, six, seven locations.
01:01:24
Speaker
And if we are theoretically spread out to all seven of those locations, there's four locations with three firefighters and that's with the daggers. There's two locations with ah four firefighters and then back at the main operating base.
01:01:42
Speaker
that there would be seven, correct? Yes. And that's, that's how we, that's how we present in foreign and emergency services. Um, and so, but if there's more spokes than that, then you know, you know, your problems, you have a bigger problem set at the strategic level in the air force. And I'm sure that there's more deployable combat wings that are, that are hopefully out in the theater. Um, but that's kind of what we can support and that is,
01:02:13
Speaker
That's with, again, a level of, and we talked about it early on, with a heightened level of risk. Again, this risk is inherent to warfare. And you know some may think like seven locations, 27 firefighters, how does that make sense? Like I got 68 firefighters at the base that I'm assigned. This is a high risk kind of environment. This is warfare, right? So this is with the idea that our intent is to save lives so that we can get those lives into another aircraft potentially or to another base. Yeah. So, and I also want to dispel any um thought processes. I heard this, the question came up at one of the, one of the Africa classes I was involved with. Um,
01:02:58
Speaker
Inherently, fire and emergency services in the Air Force is not transitioning to a rescue-only mindset as a holistic capability. This is specific right to expeditionary, pilot-saving, wartime, task-standard mentality. So when I hear, it's like, oh, we're we're breaking out, and you all you're teaching is worried about this for war, is is teaching rescue. Yeah.
01:03:23
Speaker
Sure enough, because i need those I need those pilots back in planes to get back in the air to continue to provide the deterrence and defense. From an installation level, we are not transitioning. If for anything, we are focusing more on how do we actually provide that the best service capabilities of our core response standards to the people based on the limitations of the lack of personnel that we currently have and then what these DCWs are going to do to our personnel at those installations,
Q-factors in Expeditionary Environments
01:03:54
Speaker
right? We lose more. So I just want to throw that out there so that we everyone's tracking the same thing. We are still firefighters.
01:04:00
Speaker
That's a great point. You kind of have to take your brain out of your head yeah when you when you put when you start thinking about readiness, deployed firefighter, and the construct that's associated with that. this isn Like the in garrison traditional fire department is a conversation for another podcast. apps like yeah That's not what we're talking about right now. um But it's it's a great point to make. Because it is bird lines, right? So yeah. got him And with that talking about the Q one, two and three. And so we, we've kind of approached it and like, you know, everybody should be at least somewhat familiar with Q one, two, three Q one. I'm worried about
01:04:47
Speaker
saving pilot, saving air crew, Q2, I'm worried about controlling the fire, Q3, I'm worried about controlling the fire and, x I'm sorry, interior firefighting, is that right? Interior, yep. And so, what we're saying is, instead of Q1, 2, and 3, which we you would have in garrison at your traditional fire department with all the water that you have and foam, hopefully, if you're able to staff all your trucks and all those fun things, and your trucks are in service, theoretically, you have you're able to provide all four of those Q factors in the deployed environment, we're saying we can provide up to probably Q2 at the main operating base and potentially even the forward operating sites. But if you go further and you only have three firefighters and a dagger, we're not going to be able to do more than Q1. That's all that we're saying, right? Yes. And I think we talked it. I can't remember. I have to go back and relook at the TTP.
01:05:45
Speaker
One of my my personal intents is under a contingency environment, we left it in because we were talking hat Hatter, humanitarian assist, disaster relief. But when it comes to an expeditionary environment, while we start off with the mob, the main operating base, it starts off being a full queue. Because you've got 27 personnel and you've got 9,000 gallons of water. I mean, unless you've got a C5 coming in, you're pretty much at full queue, you can operate and do that.
01:06:16
Speaker
Q should not be the expected expeditionary mindset. It's great for the initial planning of the building, right? To get the vehicles in there, to know that from the mob, that's exactly what we need to have and it it provides our capabilities. Once you split to ah a forward operating site or a contingency location, those are The queue is kind of out the window, because I don't know if there's going to be an expectation for all the officers of the air the air planners to understand queue. They're going to understand a level of service. Can I or can I not? So here's what I got, ma'am. Here's what I got. I got 150 gallons of water. you know Don't expect anything more from me, because this is what this dagger does. We're just going to pull the pilot.
01:07:01
Speaker
they They're not gonna, if they're inquiring about Q, then they've gone a little extra at that point, right? When we get down to coningency contingency locations. But it's still there, it's important, but that's the only time we really drive it is at the mob when it's full up. You lose the full Q when you send, the second you send people out. Mm-hmm. And so for people to understand it, if you haven't dug into the concept, that 27 firefighters, 9,000 gallons of water we're saying is Q3, 4C, 17 airframes,
Simplifying Expeditionary Capabilities
01:07:36
Speaker
correct? Yeah. So anything be beyond that, you know, we're never ever going to be 100% capable. right And then of course, if you disperse your resources, you're even less capable. So, but that's,
01:07:52
Speaker
You know, that's how that's how things are built. but yeah But to your point, I guess you just don't get don't get too caught up in that. No, I mean, really, we shouldn't because we're talking expeditionary. You don't know what mission generation units are going to be attached. Exactly. And they're still figuring that out, right? There's some great little things that talk about, oh, there's mission generation force elements. There are going to be three of them attached to this DCW, or the three of them attached to this cab. Well, cool. How many ship squadrons are there? Just because it's a mission generation force element,
01:08:22
Speaker
it could be from three separate bases all going in. You could have three MGFEs under one particular capability of the different iron. So it's like, you're getting in a six ship, a 12 ship, 14 ship. Are they breaking it down into ships that were not even discussed on UTCs? And that's all A3 flying community issue, right? And we're just reactive to it.
01:08:46
Speaker
I think it's it's probably also good that we don't know that stuff. We don't want the enemy to know that stuff. And we'd make it more difficult on ourselves. Sure, yeah. just amify and This is what we got. yeah You know, convey the risk to commanders, convey the risk to officers. And that's why I try to steer away from the Q-factors when it comes to the expeditionary. of my Personally, I think that's how we can better explain it. Some people might be really spun up on how they want to prove provide the Q-factors to the commander and might be able to relay it better. I just try to keep things very simple.
01:09:16
Speaker
expeditionary. Here's what you got. Thumbs up, thumbs down. Let's rock.
Future Directions of Air Force Strategies
01:09:22
Speaker
Chief, do you got anything else to say on the origin of Air Force Force generation, Azure common employment, how we fit into that? I know there's a lot more to be said. We could talk about multi capable. We could talk about mission ready. We could talk about all these different things. We could dig into the, to the dagger, but in the spirit of just keeping this about the origin of this and kind of what it looks like today. Is there anything else to say?
01:09:43
Speaker
um From the origin in keeping where we are, I would say no. Just anybody listening needs to continue to remember that this is changing. right We're still rebuilding it in flight. This is still changing, still changing. There's going to be new briefs that come out. There's a briefing on the fourth generation 101 from AFEC that came out seven October.
01:10:11
Speaker
Right. Just another background discussion at how we're transitioning, how we're moving, um, what's out there and how the new wings are going to be looked at. It's still nothing's final. It's more of an update brief, right? So just stay flexible. Everyone's got to stay flexible, uh, stay ready. And under the AfroGen mentality, it's going to affect everyone. We signed up. Let's go ahead and be ready to execute whenever it need be.
01:10:39
Speaker
Because while it might only be five ATFs or six ATFs coming up and then planning 27.1 of only being five DCWs, in strength, we're going to be supplying like 16 of these things. Oh, and a whole separate podcast we didn't even get into was the capabilities enhancement teams, which is a whole other group of 27 firefighters that are going to go out and do things. And that's not even a deployable wing. That's a follow on capability.
01:11:09
Speaker
So aside from that on the origins, I really want to make a statement. If the concept is out there, I know it's been foot stomped, you know, read it, lean it, read it, learn it, read it, teach it, learn it. However, the my it's not coming off the tip of my tongue the right way, the way Wink does it, you know.
01:11:30
Speaker
ah Which is fine. It's it's out there. and It is available. I think the last one is teach it, right? Yeah. Read it, learn it, teach it, something like that. um it It makes sense, and it is a requirement. I mean, it and it is not in capturing everything. This is saying, here's our playbook. Here's how we're going to execute the game. Those skills for how you're going to be on the ground are something that we are not capturing when it comes to simple pieces. And I think I briefed it up at Ileson when I was there. And I know I briefed it at Masaba because people gave me some weird looks.
Conclusion and Access to More Content
01:12:06
Speaker
How many people know how to start a, their own fire? You're going to have your hunters that probably do. You have certain people that have been out in the woods a lot. And I'm not talking sear level, but how really ready are you? Not just CBT?
01:12:23
Speaker
It's beholden on everybody. Aside from reading the content, know how we're going to play the game, but start reflecting on yourself of what additional skills do you want to bring to that game for your own benefit?
01:12:40
Speaker
Yeah. How are you ready to, how are you ready to live when you're cold, alone and afraid is another chief wink quote. And thank you for not throwing in the cold alone and naked and afraid because I've heard that even last week someone threw that into that statement. I'm like, stop. you If you're naked, you're wrong. Yeah. Well, Chief, I appreciate your time. And again, there's so much more to talk about on this stuff, but I think this provides a good overview of kind of where we are at up to this point and really how many unknowns there still remain.
01:13:12
Speaker
but this is a good starting point, and i look forward I look forward to future conversations, maybe related to Air Force Force Generation, Agile Common Employment, and maybe related to some other things that are going on and in your world as a career field manager. Absolutely, hey, I am always available and ready, you come up with a topic and discussion, and I am here to the greatest extent possible. Awesome. I'll work it into my schedule.
01:13:39
Speaker
Cool. Thanks again, Chief. Have a good one. Absolutely, Matt. Thank you very much.
01:13:45
Speaker
Thank you for listening to this episode of the fire dog podcast. You can find more episodes like this on our website, firedog dot.us or wherever you listen to podcasts. We're also active on social media connected with us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn at the fire dog podcast. That is the fire da WG podcast. Don't forget to subscribe, like, and follow to stay plugged into to every new episode. We'd appreciate it if you share this podcast with your friends and coworkers, either on social media or right there in your firehouse. This is Matt Wilson with chief Jeffrey Wilson until next time, stay safe.