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E184: Samantha Sperry
6.4k Plays3 years ago
Burned cell phones, an abandoned car, keys left behind, am empty-tanked ATV, and a missing, young mother all add up to a mystery that, five years later, has yet to be solved. Most believe that Samantha Sperry would never have left of her own accord, especially with the strong bond she had with her children and her family-- which leaves only one alternative given the details of this particular case-- foul play. And that’s exactly what the puzzling details seem to indicate at well.
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Transcript
Lessons from Aunts
00:00:00
Speaker
There's something special to be said about a girl's relationship with her aunt. That relationship could almost be described as a combination of a mom and a best friend. Coming from a large family, I have lots of aunts and uncles and with each one I share a different relationship.
00:00:15
Speaker
Our personalities mix to form different bonds, creating special connections between us. Each of my aunts have shaped me in ways they could never imagine and have taught me lessons they likely never realized they were teaching. From them I learned what it means to love unconditionally, to give your time and efforts to those closest to you, to give a helping hand anytime you can, and to never
00:00:37
Speaker
under any circumstances, cut your cornbread. Over the years, I've tried to let them know how much I love them and value the time they've invested in me through their subtle or sometimes not so subtle lessons. But youth has a funny way of robbing us from expressing our true gratitude in the moment when we're given life advice from the ones closest to us.
00:00:57
Speaker
We often let moments go that should have been recognized. We let gestures happen that should have deserved a thank you or a hug. Not because we really mean to, but because life is happening all around us and we're afraid to take our eyes off the road ahead even for just a second.
00:01:12
Speaker
If we all were to stop and thank for a minute, we could each come up with a moment with a family member or close friend that we let slip away. Whether they were giving unwanted advice that later proved invaluable or if they were asking for a few moments of your time that you refuse to give.
The Quest for Justice
00:01:27
Speaker
Those moments can haunt us.
00:01:29
Speaker
And we often catch ourselves playing the what if game. What if I had listened to my brother and went to college in Texas near where he was stationed? Would he still be here today because he would have been in Texas rather than at home on the day he died? What if I'd known the last time I planted a garden with my poppy would have been the last time? Would I have stayed a little longer or listened a little closer to the stories he told as we planted potatoes?
00:01:52
Speaker
Those what ifs plague me at times and often fill me with regret. But each day, I try to stop letting that gameplay over and over in my mind, in the hopes that one day, I'll wake up with no what ifs running through my thoughts.
Podcast Introduction: Coffee and Cases
00:02:04
Speaker
In today's case, you'll hear the deeply rooted love of an ant as she searches for what happened to her niece and as she battles her own personal what ifs surrounding the disappearance and investigation of someone she loved with her entire being.
00:02:16
Speaker
You'll hear her love pour out through her memories of her niece and the conviction she feels about finding justice for her. This is the story of Samantha Sperry.
00:02:58
Speaker
Welcome to Coffee and Cases where we like our coffee hot and our cases cold. My name is Allison Williams. And my name is Maggie Damron. We will be telling stories each week in the hopes that someone out there with any information concerning the cases will take those tips to law enforcement. So justice and closure can be brought to these families.
00:03:18
Speaker
With each case, we encourage you to continue in the conversation on our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast, because as we all know, conversation helps to keep the missing person in the public consciousness, helping keep their memories alive. So sit back, sip your coffee, and listen to what's brewing this week.
Amanda's Gratitude and Memories
00:03:36
Speaker
Allison, before we start today, I wanted to thank Samantha's aunt, Amanda, for chatting with me about Samantha's case and for reliving such painful memories in the hopes that we can find out what truly happened to Samantha and bring some peace to her family because I know that conversation wasn't easy for Amanda to have. So I appreciate her taking that time.
00:03:58
Speaker
I know. And it always, anytime we talk with family, fills us with this further, I think, invigoration to help. And like the purpose of the podcast of them knowing they've got somebody else who's willing to listen and to help them share that story. So I so appreciate Amanda for doing that.
00:04:22
Speaker
And I think it almost makes it a little more personal because, you know, when we're just relying on written research or, you know, shows or whatever, it's a little bit, there's a little bit of a disconnect there. But when we're actually talking to the people that lived through these tragedies, it makes us feel more personally involved, like we're part of that with them, which we are.
00:04:45
Speaker
So I started the interview by asking Amanda to describe her favorite memory of Samantha, which when you think about it can be a really heavy handed question because I think like how difficult would that be for me to pick out a favorite memory of a person that means so much to me. Right. When you've got so many to choose from.
00:05:05
Speaker
Yeah, when you have a lifetime to choose from, yeah. But in Amanda's answer to my very
Samantha Sperry's Life and Struggles
00:05:11
Speaker
first question, I could feel the pride and the love that she had for Samantha. And if you research this case, you'll find several sources that state that Samantha was a mom, but none of them described her journey to motherhood with such beauty and such an outpouring of love the way that Amanda did.
00:05:31
Speaker
So Samantha was a mother of two beautiful little children that she cherished above anything else in the entire world. And Amanda lovingly recalled how excited Samantha was to be pregnant. It was as if she looked at every day of her pregnancy as a gift, which, you know, can be really hard.
00:05:49
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, I try to. It's hard some days when you're like over the toilet, throwing up your lunch, but I try to. But she told me that anytime she would bring Amanda home a gift for the baby or even just something as regular as diapers or baby wipes, that Samantha would get so excited. She said it was like watching someone open up the very best Christmas gift they had ever gotten.
00:06:18
Speaker
Oh, what a good description. I know. It was like she was just filled with so much excitement and so much love for this new life that she was bringing in. She said her face would light up and she would go on and on about how special whatever it was that Amanda had brought home. So even like mundane things, which I think speaks a lot to her personality. Oh, yeah. The gratitude. Yeah. Mm hmm.
00:06:44
Speaker
Samantha Sperry was born on August 20th, 1992, so she's near my age. She grew up in Simsonia, Kentucky, and I really hope that I'm pronouncing that correctly. I did not think to ask Amanda. I did listen to a couple news sources, but we all know Kentucky names have super weird pronunciations.
00:07:06
Speaker
It could be wrong, but she studied at Graves County High School and at the time of her disappearance, she was living in Murray, Kentucky and was working at a McDonald's. Okay.
00:07:18
Speaker
And Samantha was a typical Southern beauty. You can tell from her picture and I posted that down below for you, Allison, that she loved being outside. She often looked like she sported a little bit of a tan. She had these cute freckles across her face. But at the same time that she loved being outside, I also saw several photos of her.
00:07:38
Speaker
where she had makeup on and was dressed up with her hair curled. So she just was, I think just an all around pretty, like almost stereotypical Southern beauty. Oh, that's what I was getting ready to say. I mean, this is any typical Southern girl, you know, enjoys being outside unless you're Maggie and you have horrible allergies. Yes. But you still enjoy being outside though.
00:08:02
Speaker
And then also love to dress up, so. Yeah, just a typical Kentucky girl. You know, each week we talk about the different paths that people walk in life. And some of those people are in the primes of their life with, you know, the entire world in front of them. And I often think of, you know, Jason Landry, who was so young and had so much left to give or cases like Amy Mahalovic, who was so
00:08:28
Speaker
young and had her whole life. But then sometimes we talk about people who have lived relatively full lives but were still taken before it was their time. And I always think about that case you covered trip into the store. Yes, Virginia Douglas was her name.
00:08:47
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I always think about that one. But we've also talked about those who are struggling. And I thought about in the April Pitzer case where she was like the drug informant and she had all that to deal with. Yeah. We talk about a lot of cases where, you know, the victim or someone has been struggling with certain issues, whether that's family issues,
00:09:14
Speaker
addiction issues, mental health issues. I mean, we talk about the whole gamut, but we always say each time, and I agree that none of those things matter because who we're talking about is a victim, regardless of circumstance.
The Disappearance of Samantha Sperry
00:09:34
Speaker
And a lot of the research that I did wants to try to focus on the fact that Samantha was struggling with addiction. It was an on and off again struggle for her. But like you said, I think instead of focusing on that as a reason why something like this could happen to her, I'm choosing
00:09:55
Speaker
not to do that in this coverage because I think a lot of the times we judge people too quickly and we all have ways that we deal with things and we all have demons in our lives. So I think it's best just to focus on the fact that like you said, these people are people and they're victims regardless of any underlying circumstances. Exactly.
00:10:19
Speaker
Samantha's family would never have guessed that one March evening in 2018, their lives and the lives of those two beautiful babies that she loved so much would change forever. Because you see on March 27th, 2018, Samantha and her boyfriend, Ren Hendrickson, and from Amanda's stories and all the articles that I read, they were off and on again as well.
00:10:46
Speaker
And we're out and about when they stopped by 4250 Tim Road, which was a property that belonged to Ren's uncle Paul Holder in Graves County, Kentucky. So for those of you who have listened for a while, you know that us Kentucky people do not geographically locate ourselves around towns or cities, unless you are like near Lexington or Louisville. That's probably the only
00:11:14
Speaker
That's probably it. So we choose to locate ourselves around counties. So it will come to no surprise to you that I'll be referring to the counties rather than the cities that we're discussing today. So for the new listeners, just know that referring to counties as places of residence is a Kentucky thing and hop on board because it just makes it easier. It does.
00:11:40
Speaker
So while at Paul's house there are actually two different accounts of what happens in regards to what went on. I mean I don't think that it was dark but I don't think that it was the middle of the day when they were there. That's something that I didn't find clarification on but one account of events states that while they were visiting Ren and Samantha got into an argument
00:12:05
Speaker
Some speculate that they were arguing over drugs. Others said this was just like a typical couples argument. Which could honestly be over anything. Yeah, like you said something weird.
00:12:21
Speaker
And then it blows up into the argument. So if we follow this account, during this verbal altercation, Ren supposedly expressed to Samantha that he was ready to go home. And Samantha, who in this scenario was still very angry with him, was anything but ready to leave. She's like, I'm not going anywhere with you. And so instead she
Ren's Desperate Actions and Police Delay
00:12:43
Speaker
started walking towards the tree line. And then that's when Ren's air quotes
00:12:50
Speaker
Father Dusty Holder showed up. Why are we using air quotes?
00:12:55
Speaker
Well, we use air quotes because in my interview with Amanda, she was quick to explain that Dusty wasn't a father in the sense that you and I would think about a father. There wasn't any taking rent to T-ball practice when he was small. There were no father-son outings. Dusty was rent supplier and that was about it.
00:13:20
Speaker
Oh, okay. He was biologically his dad, but not, you know, not in the ways, right. A relationship. Okay.
00:13:32
Speaker
In another account, the two were still at Paul's house. I stated in the first account, but there wasn't anything wrong. There was no argument or anything like that. Ren is just ready to leave and Samantha isn't and Dusty shows up. So there's not a whole lot different between the two other than an argument. Right. And I guess you could say, you could maybe link the fact that an argument took place.
00:14:02
Speaker
later on, but we would still be in the same set of events I think either way. Yeah.
00:14:08
Speaker
So apparently, according to the accounts that these men would later tell police, Dusty pulled up to Paul's house on his ATV and see Samantha walking off towards the wood line and he's like, Hey, you want to go for a ride with me? And she quickly agrees and hops on the back of his ATV and the two head towards Keller Bottoms to go on a four wheeler ride.
00:14:33
Speaker
Well, I don't think it was necessarily out of the ordinary for Dusty to show up at Paul's house because I read that he lived like in an apartment on the property. I did wonder if Samantha would have so quickly jumped onto an ATV with Ren's dad. And when I was talking to Amanda before I could even
00:14:53
Speaker
finish asking that question. It felt like she explained to me that Samantha would have never gotten onto an ATV with testing. Like she would never have gotten onto that four wheeler. So even if she were mad, even if, mm hmm. Yeah, even if they're having an argument that seems out of character is what Amanda saying. Yeah, I don't think there was.
00:15:20
Speaker
very much of anything that would have made Samantha get on the four wheeler with him. And I'll be honest, there are certain people who I dislike enough, who I don't care if I'm trying to make a point to somebody, I still wouldn't, you know, have gotten on the ATV. So I totally, I get that.
00:15:44
Speaker
or even just, I feel like I'm a very awkward person. So if I'm not super close with you, sometimes the awkward silence kind of bothers me when I'm with people. So if it was somebody that I wasn't really close to and they offered that, I'd be like,
00:16:00
Speaker
Maybe next time. Right. Yeah. Thank you for the offer. Yeah. Thanks bud. No thanks. But as we talk more about the events leading up to and then after Samantha's disappearance was reported, I will let you guys be the judge of what you think the true account is because
00:16:17
Speaker
I think I already have formed my own opinions. Okay. So as of right now, we know that Samantha and Ren were visiting Paul at his house. Dusty shows up and he and Samantha take off on the four-wheeler. The next thing we know is that Samantha never showed up for her non-PM shift at work that day at McDonald's.
00:16:39
Speaker
And then her Ford Taurus was found abandoned on Doom's Chapel Road, which what a creepy name for a road. Right. Creepy name for a road. Yeah. Just south of her hometown. And then that's when she's reported missing. So we know nothing really in between that time as of right now. We just know that she went to the woods with Dusty. She doesn't show up for work and they found her car.
00:17:07
Speaker
How do we not know anything from Ren? Like even if he said, yeah, I waited around and she didn't show up. So I let like, how does her car get to this dooms chapel road to be abandoned? And wouldn't he wait around and then be like, yeah, they didn't come back. So I'm going to go out looking.
00:17:33
Speaker
So in his account of events, he goes home after she leaves with Dusty. So let's discuss how we went from this harmless ATV ride to a missing person. Okay. Which picks up with Ren's story. So on March 28th, 2018, Ren placed a troubling and very scary phone call to his mother. Wait, this is the next day?
00:17:58
Speaker
Yeah, this is the next day. OK, so he told his mom he had taken some pills and was going into the woods to end his own life. OK, that's odd. All right. I'd be freaked out as a mom, but knowing what happened the day before, that seems odd.
00:18:17
Speaker
Ren will maintain, and I'm pretty sure still maintains to this day, he had no idea that Samantha was missing at the time that he went into the woods to commit suicide.
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00:22:50
Speaker
So just as you expressed, Allison, his mother was very worried and very scared. So she did quickly contact police to let them know that her son was suicidal.
00:23:03
Speaker
But, and I'm torn on this. I mean, I get their reasoning and I'm sure you will too, but I'm still torn on it. But in an effort to maintain their safety, police made the decision to hold off searches until that next morning because it was so late, it was already dark. And I know that all of us are thinking, well, why would they do that? Like, why would you wait if there's a possible suicidal man on the loose?
00:23:30
Speaker
But in all of my research and in the interview with Amanda, it was confirmed that Ren had had violent interactions with the police in the past. And because of this violent past and the fact that he was likely armed and he was high and it was dark, the police decided it was best not to approach the situation until morning. Which is still sad knowing his intent.
00:24:00
Speaker
Mm hmm. Yeah. And I would think that I don't know how they came to that decision, but would think that would be a very hard decision to come to. Right. Yeah, I would. I would hope it was a hard decision. Yes. Yeah, that's better. I would hope. Yeah. Yeah. Samantha's sister Kim told Dateline that while all of this is going on, their brother Tyler, who is a member of the volunteer fire department,
00:24:30
Speaker
had heard the call go in about Rin. And so he calls Samantha's family to let them know about that. Okay.
00:24:42
Speaker
In the meantime, by this point, search crews have found Samantha's abandoned car on that Doom's Chapel Road. And Kim says that Tyler, at this point, is also aware that her car has been found. So he is very concerned that her car is abandoned alongside the road.
00:25:05
Speaker
Their worry increases another step when they are frantically trying to get in touch with Samantha. So they call McDonald's and McDonald's says, yeah, she didn't call into work. She just didn't show up. We don't know where she is. So now they're thinking, okay, she didn't show up for work.
00:25:27
Speaker
And she was a no call, no show, so she didn't even say she was not coming in. Her car has been found abandoned and her on again, off again boyfriend is now in the woods threatening to commit suicide.
00:25:45
Speaker
Yeah, so there's a lot to process. And I'm sure they thought initially that maybe Ren and Samantha were together. But then you'd be even more prepared. And I think investigators even thought that as well because that same
00:26:05
Speaker
time that all that's going on. They post on Facebook to say that there is an investigation underway to locate both Ren and Samantha, like with their pictures, you know, side by side as if they think they're together. Yeah. Cause I mean, as far as they know, they are because we haven't seen Samantha. We don't even know where she is. Right. Yeah. The last time we saw her, she was on the four wheeler. So we don't know. We don't know anything now. Right.
00:26:35
Speaker
Well, when the search began on Thursday, so I, you know, when the, when day came, authorities did find Dusty's four wheeler. And so now that we're on the subject of Dusty, let's get his account of what happened after he and Samantha took to the woods, because after all, that's supposedly the last person to see her alive. So, right.
00:27:03
Speaker
According to what Dusty told police on March 27th, he and Samantha went on an ATV ride because the area there is rather swampy, which I know people that are not from Kentucky probably think we live in the weirdest state. And I guess we kind of do because Eastern Kentucky is very mountainous. Western Kentucky is more swampy, literally.
00:27:31
Speaker
So it's true that there would be swampy areas. So because the area was swampy and it was rainy around the time the two went riding, he says, we got stuck in the mud. Okay. Is that why he's saying his four wheeler was abandoned? Like, is that why they found it? Right.
00:27:51
Speaker
Okay. Right. Because he couldn't, they couldn't get it out. Okay. Because it was nightfall. The two make the decision that it's probably best just to stay in the woods overnight and head out in the morning. No. Rather than trying to make it out of the woods. Absolutely not. No. Listen, I'm not saying everybody would make the same decision I would, but
00:28:15
Speaker
if if what amanda is telling you you know that first of all she doesn't even believe that samantha would have gone with this guy there is zero chance that she would be like you know what that she would stay overnight alone with a overnight in the woods just us no oh no yeah okay back to the story so
00:28:46
Speaker
So he says they decide that it's best to stay overnight and head out in the morning because they're afraid they'll get lost in the woods at night, which, okay, that part, that justification I can see, but first off, it's 2018. So your cell phone has a flashlight on it. Secondly,
00:29:09
Speaker
I just, I couldn't, I could not stay overnight in the woods. She's a bigger, she's a better woman than I, because I would be too scared. I'd be like, some animals going to kill me. So I may as well get lost because at least I'm trying to escape. Yeah. And remember it's March and while March days in Kentucky can hint at springtime, like it can get, you know, warm ish. Right.
00:29:38
Speaker
nights in Kentucky still get pretty nippy. Yeah, they do. Yeah. And I think that average temperature in March, the low in March is usually between 22 degrees Fahrenheit and 58 degrees Fahrenheit. And I actually googled for Murray Kentucky, what the temperature was that night. And it said the average low for that night was 52 degrees. So while that's not, you know, it's not gonna snow. It's still pretty cold. That's still cold. Yeah.
Challenging Official Narratives
00:30:08
Speaker
So Destiny goes on to tell investigators that they are super resourceful people because I never in my life would have thought to do this. I mean maybe I would have if I were in this situation but I really just don't think I'm smart enough to think about this. But they actually
00:30:28
Speaker
He says used the heat from the ATV engine to stay warm that night. So they would like turn it on and warm up because I guess the hood kind of gets warm and then turn it off. But eventually they did run out of gas. So that's another reason that the ATV is found. Again, if I'm in the woods and it's cold, you know what would warm me up?
00:30:58
Speaker
walking to try to escape. And you know, a question I didn't think about asking, I wonder if this, how big this bottom is and could you get to a place within this bottom that you didn't have cell phone service? Because if they had phones and we know there's phones, because I'll get to that in a minute. Okay. Couldn't they have called someone? Yeah. Like Ren? She could have called them.
00:31:28
Speaker
So whoever, and you better believe if I'm stuck and I can't get a hold of anybody to come get me, I'm calling 911. I'm not staying there. Right. And I'd be mad that Ren isn't calling me. Being like, hey. Well, we'll get to that. And her work didn't call her? Being like, hey, where are you? I don't know. There are some issues with the phone that we'll get to. OK.
00:31:57
Speaker
So they run out of gas and he goes on to explain that when daylight came the two walked out of the woods and they walk out along a highway and he told investigators that he suggested that they walk to this nearby store so that he could call his brother for a ride back home and they would have a chance to warm up while they waited for his brother.
00:32:18
Speaker
But Samantha told him that she was going to her cousin's house because it was nearby. So she goes in the opposite direction, supposedly, of Dusty. How do car get abandoned? That's my other big question. OK, I keep asking too many questions because none of this makes sense to me, the story that I'm hearing about what supposedly happened.
00:32:42
Speaker
you're not alone in thinking that. And so in that moment when they split ways, that is the last time anyone saw Samantha and
00:32:52
Speaker
A lot of her family have issues with this being the last time that she was seen because if it was around, you know, seven, eight o'clock and she's walking along a highway that's heavily traveled, there would have been school buses. People were going to work. People were, you know, going to get their Starbucks or whatever. So her family thinks that she should have been spotted.
00:33:18
Speaker
Had she been along this road and there never came any calls in about seeing a woman who's probably dirty and licks cold. They got stuck in the mud. Then yeah. And Dusty says, you know, I didn't really think about.
00:33:38
Speaker
her question her when she said she was going the other direction to her cousin's house because I was wet. I was tired. I was cold. I just spent the night in the woods. So when she was like, I'm going the other way, I didn't argue with her. I just let her go. So he says like he didn't even really give that a second thought. Okay.
00:33:55
Speaker
So you mentioned where are Samantha's outgoing calls? Where are the incoming calls to her phone?
The Investigation's Integrity Issues
00:34:05
Speaker
Right. So at the same time that Samantha is staying warm via the ATV engine, her family is trying to call her because by this point they know she's not coming to work.
00:34:17
Speaker
Yeah, they've heard from her brother, right? That, oh, well, that's the next day, I guess. It's the next day. Yeah. But they are trying to get up with her and they call several times, but each time they call her, her phone goes directly or the calls go directly to voicemail because her phone, they believe was turned off.
00:34:40
Speaker
The problem here is, remember that Samantha is 25 and it is the year 2018. In 2018, I was 27 going on 28. And I always had my phone with me turned on. So I found it curious that she would have had her phone turned off. Especially, especially, first of all, I never turn my phone off. Never.
00:35:08
Speaker
Ronnie gets onto me all the time because he's like, you need to at least restart, like turn it off and turn it back on. I never do that. My phone is always on. But even if I were a person who had my phone off,
00:35:23
Speaker
If I am in the middle of the woods, do you know why I would have my phone turned on? In case there's an emergency, like an animal is trying to get me, I get bitten by a snake. Something happens. I'm free to death. I'm going to have my phone turned on so that I can make phone calls, which I would have already made by this point. Let's be clear.
00:35:45
Speaker
And I think we also have to think about Samantha as a person. She had those two kids that she was obsessed with. So I don't think she's going anywhere with her phone off in case they were to need her. And Amanda told me during our call that Samantha would have never ignored phone calls from her family or turned her phone off. She said, you know, if she missed one call from her mom,
00:36:13
Speaker
She probably wouldn't have worried, but she said that Samantha, and I'm this type of person as well, if she sees multiple missed calls from multiple family members, the first thing she's going to think is who died, right? Yeah, something bad. So she would immediately then
00:36:31
Speaker
And she would have immediately been trying to return at least somebody's phone call to make sure that everybody was okay. And that never happened. So that's a huge red flag for me. I would completely agree with that.
00:36:48
Speaker
So interestingly Dusty claims that after he gets picked up and gets all toasty he told Ren that Samantha had gone a different direction and that the two exited the woods together but she had gone a different way and because no one was able to contact her
00:37:08
Speaker
That's what spurred Ren's suicidal call to his mother. But remember, Ren said that he knew nothing about Samantha's disappearance at the time of his suicidal thoughts. So it can't be both. And even if I believed Dusty's claim on this, why the heck? I don't I don't feel like at this point when you don't know where
00:37:35
Speaker
Samantha is that someone would be suicidal. Instead, I feel like now you're like, my purpose is to find Samantha.
00:37:47
Speaker
You know what I mean? Now, maybe later, like once you discover that something had happened to her, right, and you know that she's not coming back, then I understand the depression and those kind of feelings settling in. But with her just missing, and it's only been less than 24 hours, I feel like
00:38:13
Speaker
It to me anyway, and I guess I can't judge because I don't know how everyone would react. But to me, it would just give me more, I guess, drive. Like this is my purpose. I've got I've got to help find her.
00:38:30
Speaker
And I don't know if, I can't remember if Amanda and I talked about this, if Ren struggled with mental health issues. And I don't remember if we talked about if he had been suicidal before. Um, but I do know that he was struggling with addiction. So, you know, that can cause you to feel differently. So I don't know if maybe that was part of the reason that he was suicidal. I do think.
00:39:00
Speaker
Like you said, there can only be one correct answer. Either he knew she was missing or he didn't. And I think depending on what the right answer is there, I think it's pretty significant.
00:39:17
Speaker
So we know Samantha's family is becoming increasingly worried she would not have gone for any extended period of time without talking to her family. It was very unlikely that she wouldn't have called to at least check on her babies. So something is up. But not long into this search, authorities do find Dusty's ATV during a ground search. And what I find interesting, because you mentioned
00:39:44
Speaker
about the car. Yeah. And we're getting to the car. But what I find interesting is that Samantha's keys were on the hood of this ATV. No. Okay. The next morning when you're walking away, you're not going to leave your keys on the hood of the ATV. That doesn't make any sense.
00:40:08
Speaker
So this is, you are right, we're on the same wavelength because that's what I thought too. I was like, why would she, as you're leaving, forget your keys? Like that's just gonna be wallet, cell phone keys. We always have those three things. So why would she leave those?
00:40:30
Speaker
So I asked Amanda, did she think that Samantha had left the keys? So the problem with that is Samantha only had one set of car keys. So apparently when Samantha bought the car, she had two sets just like we all do when we get a car. But one summer she was swimming in the lake and the key was in her pocket and she lost the key to her car. So she was down just to that single car key.
00:40:59
Speaker
What's weird, if this car key is on the ATV, that also means that Ren was at the ATV because Ren drove away in her car. Oh, I didn't realize that. Yeah, because remember, well, I don't, I may not have said that at the beginning, but they're in her car when they go to Paul's house and he leaves in her car. Yeah. Oh.
00:41:28
Speaker
Yeah, that's, hmm. So how does her key get there? And then if that's true, it'd be one thing, I mean, you could easily explain away, yeah, like she left with, you know, with Dusty, I went home, I drove our car home, but then the car would be at their house. The key wouldn't be in the woods and her car abandoned on the side of the road.
00:41:58
Speaker
So there is a possible explanation for that as well. But the key thing for me is there are just a couple of possibilities.
Physical Evidence and Investigative Challenges
00:42:08
Speaker
Either Samantha had the key the entire time, making Ren's story of driving Samantha's car away from Paul's. Wrong. Impossible. Yeah. Right. And then also throwing into suspicion this story of the night spent
00:42:24
Speaker
in the woods into suspicion as well. I just think, I don't know, it's just weird. So I guess we would assume that when Ren is walking through the woods, when he's suicidal, he finds the ATV and leaves the keys on the hood. So that just seems awfully coincidental.
00:42:52
Speaker
You're walking in the woods of all of the woods and you happen upon the ATV and leave keys on it. I don't know. Right. Now you asked about how her car was abandoned because this adds I think another level to this.
00:43:12
Speaker
story. So there is an account of Rens in which he claims that he was being chased by almost sort of like a drug lord and he says in this account that he's driving Samantha's car because remember he has the car because he drove it home and he realizes that he's being followed and thinking he can escape quicker on foot he leaves the car alongside the road where it's later found and runs into the woods and remember he's being chased by this supposed drug lord at the same time that he is
00:43:41
Speaker
having these suicidal thoughts. This is like a Hollywood movie. Oh, yeah. And Amanda talks about that this could be so sensationalized. Yeah. And who would think that you could escape quicker on foot? Now maybe you could lose somebody.
00:43:59
Speaker
And I think that's like the premise of him going into the woods is, you know, he's thinking, I grew up here. I know these woods better than they do. I'm going to lose them in the woods. The problem with that is if the story were to be true.
00:44:14
Speaker
How could Ren possibly run through the woods after taking enough pills to hopefully end his own life? And not only was he high, he was also drunk. He had drank like a huge amount of whiskey. So when he drove, which I know people that are in talks, I do that all the time, but then you're telling me that you're going to be able
00:44:41
Speaker
to not stumble over brush, fallen trees, and escape people that are completely sober who are facing you. And then in the midst of all of that, you just happen upon Dusty's ATV and lay the keys down.
00:45:07
Speaker
And I think he will talk about it in a little bit. I think that there's a way that that's kind of explained. Did he have cell phones that we could check pings on?
00:45:24
Speaker
Oh girl, there are cell phones. They actually find two of Desti's cell phones. I don't know why one needs two, maybe like a work phone and a personal phone, but they find two in the ashes of a fire. Like in the woods? Ashes of fire? Uh-huh. Yep. Yep. Okay. Things are not normal here. The math is not math-ing. No.
00:45:54
Speaker
Amanda did tell me that the area that Ren entered the woods wasn't heavily wooded, so he wouldn't have had a lot to step over or climb over, you know, that type of thing. But he still would have been really clumsy. And I just, I don't know, maybe it was the paranoia, maybe it was some type of halluc, like he was hallucinating. Right. I don't know. I just think that story is, it's out there. Yeah.
00:46:19
Speaker
I agree. So another interesting piece of evidence noted by investigators at the scene in which the ATV was discovered was that there were only one set of footprints found leading out of the woods and only one set of footprints found around the four wheeler. Oh, no, no, no, no. Yeah. Again, the math isn't math thing. If you've got two people,
00:46:46
Speaker
there wouldn't just be one unless she's riding on his back. And I'm telling you that didn't happen. She's like, I can't go on. Just give me, give me the e-back ride out of here. Yeah, that would not be happening. So how does Dusty explain that one?
00:47:04
Speaker
Well, it was typical March weather at this time. So it was very rainy. It had been a few days. So perhaps the other set was kind of washed away, but I'm assuming unless she had on like flip-flops and he had on steel-toed boots, that there would not be that big of a difference in the imprint that the shoes would have made. So if they could find one set, they should have been able to find two.
00:47:31
Speaker
Or even just one single footprint of all the places that she was standing around, just one. Then they would know that there were two people there. Right. But they say there's just one set.
00:47:46
Speaker
Now you mentioned about phones and there were phones there and we talked about that. Dusty claims that he and Samantha were staying warm throughout the night by using the warmth from the ATV engine. Yeah. Yeah. Wait a minute. Hold on. Hold up.
00:48:09
Speaker
You said that his two cell phones were in the ashes of a fire. So why would they need to warm up with the engine of the ATV if they have a fire?
00:48:21
Speaker
And how are they? I don't even know. Okay. So yes, why would we need the engine? That the gas never would have ran out? Nope. If we could start a fire. Yeah. But also how are we starting a fire? Like I don't even know that I really technically believe that there was ever a fire in the first place. If it's raining, all the wood is going to be wet. That's true. So how are you starting a fire?
00:48:45
Speaker
and left to see you've got like some kindling wood inside. Yeah, you packed it in a backpack or something. Yeah, you brought it there. So the fire in general gives me pause because either
00:49:00
Speaker
It's just strange and almost seems like you're burning something on purpose when you're burning two cell phones and a fire. And it throws into question this story of keeping warm with the engine of the ATV. I know. And then if you're questioning one part of the story, it kind of makes you question the other parts of the story.
00:49:23
Speaker
Yeah, investigators say like the scene does not match Dusty's story and there is no evidence that Samantha was ever at the location where they found the ATV. Wow. Could they tell if the fire, if they had used an accelerant? Because I feel like it had to be an awfully hot fire if you're burning your phones in it.
00:49:47
Speaker
You know, I didn't read that and I didn't even think to ask Amanda that, but I'm assuming they didn't burn very well if they're distinguishable phones. That's true. So remember while we're investigating this and we're finding the keys and the, the maybe fire and all of the footprints and all of the things that Ren is also still missing because he's in the woods. Okay.
00:50:16
Speaker
So fast forward a few days to April 1st and a cold hypothermic dehydrated Ren stumbles out of the woods and makes his way to Dusty's apartment. Oh, okay. So like five days. Wow. I wonder if it took, did it take him that long to come down from like whatever he was on?
00:50:43
Speaker
Or maybe he was really that lost. Or if he knew that Samantha was missing, maybe he was looking for her. Or maybe he did just need that time to come down out of whatever type of funk that he was in.
Family Theories and Community Support
00:51:01
Speaker
So when he shows up at Dusty's house, the people there obviously realize that Wren is a need of medical attention. So they take him to the hospital for treatment. And after they treat him for the dehydration and the hypothermia, police bring him in to be questioned.
00:51:19
Speaker
Strangely, he says police, tells police, you know, I've been in the woods for five days. But like, I just want you guys to know that somewhere out there in the woods are some items that belong to Samantha and some belong to me too, because I took some of our personal belongings into the woods with me, but I lost them. And they're in this blue duffel bag, like this blue drawstring duffel bag type thing.
00:51:48
Speaker
that it seems so weird. But I mean, yeah, I don't know if if there was a purpose, you know, when he was feeling suicidal, like where these memorabilia and he was wanting to look at it, you know, I mean, I don't know. Yeah, I do think I do think
00:52:10
Speaker
that either way, if he didn't know Samantha was missing or he did, we can somehow justify as weird as it is that he had these items with him because he's either saying, like you said, like I'm going to die. I want to be able to remember these best memories with her through these items or I'm hoping to find her and she may need X, Y, and Z. Okay. Cause we don't know what's in the bag. Well, Amanda has some speculations. Um,
00:52:40
Speaker
She thinks maybe that Samantha's wallet was in there, maybe some other small items of hers. But what bothers her the most about this blue bag isn't the fact that Samantha's things were in there, or that Ren lost some of Samantha's things.
00:52:55
Speaker
It's the fact that law enforcement placed such a huge deal on finding this bag. They're like, we have to find this blue bag. Almost like the blue bag is the key. And then before the blue bag, it was, we have to find this ATV. The ATV is everything. It was never really involved. What about Samantha? We need to find Samantha. Right. Yeah. So here is what Amanda had to say about the blue bag. Then they wanted us to find this bag, this blue bag that Ren had taken.
00:53:26
Speaker
it was not please, you know, gather your family and help us find, you know, your, your kid. It was, we need this blue bag. Um, and then, um, before that it was, we need to find the ATV. We need to find the four wheeler. Never once did anyone ever come to me and say, I need your help finding your, your loved one.
00:53:54
Speaker
And Amanda told investigators or told me that investigators didn't truly begin searching for Samantha until about a week after she was last seen, because at first it's, we have to find this ATV. We have to find this blue bag. Okay. Ren's back now. Let's start looking for Samantha. Oh yeah. I'm with her. I would be so frustrated. Oh, they're just wait till you hear some of the other things that happened during this investigation. Okay.
00:54:19
Speaker
So there was a lot. Um, and like I said, Amanda says in the interview that there's a lot around Samantha's case that could be sensationalized. Amanda said that she would call in and say something like, Hey, I received a tip and you may want to talk to Billy. But then for some reason, when that would be entered into the system, it would be entered in as they needed to follow up with Sarah, not Billy.
00:54:50
Speaker
What? Those don't even sound alike. Yeah, it would be like a completely different person than who she said may know something. And when I ask her why, you know, why would he do this? What purpose does that serve? You know, what's he getting out of changing the names? She had one answer and that was drugs.
00:55:15
Speaker
So Amanda said that for nearly a year after Samantha's disappearance the family received very little information through the Graves County Sheriff's Department. She said the same year, I'm pretty positive, it was the same year that Samantha disappeared, one of the
00:55:36
Speaker
deputy sheriffs was charged with drug position and official misconduct after taking pain medicine from the department's drug drop box. So that's why she thinks maybe things were changed as they came in because, you know, remember
00:55:55
Speaker
that Samantha and Ren and Dusty are all struggling with this addiction and we are, you know, left to wonder did that somehow play into how the initial investigation was handled. And the idea of the changing the names, that was just from my interview with Amanda. I don't
00:56:17
Speaker
I didn't read that in any of my research, but I'm trusting her expertise on this because she's just so heavily involved in all aspects of Samantha's disappearance. But these charges were brought forward.
00:56:32
Speaker
He actually ends up retiring, and then he actually passes away. And so Samantha's case then fell to retired McCracken County Sheriff, John Hayden, because he was appointed to that position after that person's death. Okay. There was an article with WKMS.
00:56:51
Speaker
That said, quote, one year to the date that Sperry disappeared, the sheriff's office assembled a group of seasoned investigators and officers from around the region, as well as Kentucky state police personnel and representatives from the FBI. Hayden said the group re-interviewed witnesses and conducted a thorough re-sweep of the area Sperry was last seen.
00:57:13
Speaker
He says he knows the family is desperate to find closure." And he added in that interview with that local news station, quote, this case is not closed. And this case will never be closed until we find out what happened to Samantha. So he does at least seem to be more proactive in locating Samantha.
00:57:36
Speaker
But there are a lot of challenging aspects, I think, in her case, because first and foremost, she's still only listed as missing. She's not listed as deceased. She's still listed as missing. So for example, when blood was found in her home, because they do get a search warrant, and they search her home, and they find some blood, it took it a very long time
00:58:04
Speaker
to have the test ran on that blood to see if it could help in the investigation because of course crimes like murder or rape are going to trump a missing persons crime in the forensics lab. And we know that the Kentucky forensics lab is literally overran with evidence that they need to test. I wonder if it was a lot of blood or just a little bit.
00:58:29
Speaker
I'm curious about that too. And I asked Amanda if the blood had been tested and she said that it was and that it was ruled as something that would not aid in the investigative efforts, but they never told the family why.
00:58:44
Speaker
So is it dog blood? Was it blood from one of her kids? Was it Samantha's blood? How much blood was it? Because was it a drop from a nose bleed? I think that could tell a whole lot. Right, I do too. Another fact that I almost feel bad saying that it is an issue or hampers the case because
00:59:13
Speaker
because I don't know, but everybody's story stays the same. Like time is not altering any of these testimonies. So Ren and Dusty have been interviewed multiple times by investigators about Samantha's disappearance and their stories have not changed any, like significantly enough to raise question.
00:59:40
Speaker
They have also both passed polygraph tests on the subject, but of course we know. Those don't mean anything. That means nothing. Yeah. And Amanda said that there was even rumors or accounts that due to Ren's hyperactive disorder, he was actually given sedation medicine to take the test because he could not stop moving. I would think that would have been the purpose. And have to concentrate on the questions.
01:00:03
Speaker
That's what I said. Like in my very unprofessional opinion, I think that alone would alter polygraph tests. I was. Aren't they measuring like heart rate and all that? Yeah. They're like, this is the most mellow person I've ever seen. Yeah. Not guilty. Yeah.
01:00:22
Speaker
According to NBC News, Samantha's sister, Kim, believes that foul play is involved in her sister's disappearance. And honestly, most, if not all of Samantha's family would agree.
Ongoing Search and Public Appeal
01:00:33
Speaker
Kim said, quote, she couldn't have gotten lost in the woods. We were out in the woods all the time. This is our hometown. She couldn't have gotten lost. End quote.
01:00:42
Speaker
And I mean, I get that. I grew up in the hills as well. So I don't think I would get lost in the hills behind my house because I was in them all fall and spring. So now there was, so we talked initially about
01:01:01
Speaker
should, surely a school bus would have seen her walking by or a car going to work or whatever. And there was one reported sighting of Samantha on March 31st, 2018, but that was later determined not to be her. It was just somebody that had the same color hair as her. Oh, gotcha. Family members and authorities have also since worked with several search and rescue groups. They've sent out canine teams, pretty positive. They have also sent out some people on horseback.
01:01:30
Speaker
And Amanda now will describe a little bit of that search. We did. Us as a family did a search. And they did send officers out there. To be with us in case we found anything. But I just felt like I had someone sitting in their vehicle watching me like looking over my shoulder and it.
01:01:56
Speaker
Like, I don't know if they'd done it so that way I'd feel comfortable or comforted in the fact that they care, but all they did was make me mad. Yeah. And so, but that was the last like boots on the ground type thing that they, they done. Um, the rest of the time it's just been just us family, you know, out searching and I always have,
01:02:26
Speaker
tons of people saying, you know, if you need me, absolutely, I will help search. And that is wonderful. And looking back now, I made so many mistakes. I really did. And I can't go back and undo them. But you know, I should have utilized everybody wanting to help.
01:02:54
Speaker
um well you know like you said at the beginning your faith is with the police department you know it really was and so i was like no you know we've got this covered and no i just wish that would not have as i mentioned earlier amanda has been and i'm sure that the whole family is i just know her account because that's who i spoke to but she has been
01:03:18
Speaker
super dedicated to finding out what happened to Samantha. And she broke my heart because she says that every single day she wonders what if she could have done something more to save Samantha? What if things had been different? She, before Samantha went disappearing, I tried to convince her to go back to rehab and she was saying, what if I had pretty much forced her to go
01:03:47
Speaker
would things be different than they are now? And that's a trap that is so easy to fall into because we often blame ourselves for things that are beyond our control. And she does blame herself for so many of the things that happened to Samantha. And she expressed that she hopes one day that she's able to let go of those what ifs. And I also hope that for her because that's just a heartbreaking place to be in.
01:04:18
Speaker
When I asked her about theories, she said the family did have a few. There are really just three that we're going to talk about today. Of course, the main theory that most entertain is that Samantha was a victim of foul play.
01:04:34
Speaker
Since Samantha is only considered missing, no suspects have been named in the case. I did ask Amanda how Ren and Samantha's relationship was because we know he had that violent interaction with police. So I was wondering what type of a relationship they had. But she told me that she wouldn't describe them as a typical relationship.
01:04:58
Speaker
you know you and Rodney where you're going to the movies or you're going out on dates and dinners and things like that. But she said they were the typical couple that you know would when they argued it was over just couple things and it was never more than just an argument. Ren had never been violent towards Samantha. Okay. There is speculation as to who the family thinks is responsible but as I said since no one has been officially named
01:05:28
Speaker
I'm not going to name them. I'll let you all decide who you think that could be. The family has also considered the idea, this was interesting to me, that Samantha could have been sold into sex slavery, which around 2018 and even now, that was a big thing in certain parts of Kentucky, kidnapping women into sex slavery.
01:05:52
Speaker
A thing that Amanda said that I had not really put together. She says that even if Samantha was sold into sex slavery, the outcome is still the same. Like she still thinks she's no longer with us here on this earth, because she said, you know, a person that's
01:06:11
Speaker
sold into that business is only useful for a period of time until they can no longer meet the demands that are placed on their bodies. And she was like, what happens to those people then? They're killed. So regardless of if she died the day that she went missing or a year after she went missing because she was sold into sex slavery, Amanda says she thinks the outcome is the same. Right.
01:06:41
Speaker
I don't believe, but there may be some that do is that Samantha was a runaway. Um, the justification with this one is she was young, you know, she was struggling with drug addiction. So some people think maybe she ran away to escape a life that she couldn't. If she were to have stayed home, you know, she's thinking I can never beat this cycle. If I'm staying here with these people who keep
01:07:08
Speaker
influencing me to do these things. Including her babies? No. Right. And that's my hang up with is I don't think that Samantha would have ever left her family. I don't think she would have ever left her babies. Not without saying, listen, because when you've got a supportive family, like it sounds like she has, then that those are the kind of people who say, you know what, I'm going to need you to help me take care of my children for a little bit because I need to go to rehab to get help.
01:07:37
Speaker
You don't just decide to leave the situation and run away and leave your family and your children behind. I do not believe this theory. And Amanda said that she even said, hey, Samantha, let's talk about this rehab thing again. So help is being offered to her. And Amanda said in her interview, and I think this is such
01:08:06
Speaker
an anti thing to say that you know at first they did think that Samantha and Ren were just somewhere in the woods like rotting off a high and she said that you know that she would get off work and she would go out into the woods comb the woods for Samantha and at the beginning she was expecting just to find her with Ren and she said if she found her she was going to beat her tail all the way to the car yeah
01:08:30
Speaker
you know, for putting them through that much work and that much stress. So I think Samantha would have known she had that supportive family network. And if she really wanted to
01:08:42
Speaker
start over that she knew where she could go because they'd helped her before. Right. And her sister Kim agrees and told Dateline, quote, I don't think my sister will come home safe and alive. She said she would have contacted us by now. She wouldn't have done this to us. End quote. So what are your thoughts, Alison? Foul play. 100%. And the reason I say that is because
01:09:10
Speaker
There are too many stories that we've heard. And again, because nobody's been named as a suspect or even person of interest from what you've said, I'm not going to name any names either. I think we can all guess them. But there are too many stories where holes have been poked to where it throws everything else into question and because
01:09:38
Speaker
nobody has given a legitimate reason why she hasn't shown back up or where she could be that I, I mean, my gut tells me foul play. Same.
01:09:54
Speaker
As Amanda put it for me, so much of Samantha's case could be sensationalized. There was the suicide attempt. There was even a fugitive found in an underground bunker on Paul's property at one point. But focusing on all of that does nothing to get to the bottom of the case we talked about today. The focus should be on Samantha. Regardless of what theory you believe or what preconceived notions you may carry,
01:10:20
Speaker
A mother, a daughter, a niece, and a friend is still missing. And I hope with all of my heart, we can find out what happened to her so her family never has to go another Christmas, another birthday, or another Mother's Day wandering.
Podcast Closing and Listener Acknowledgments
01:10:35
Speaker
I hope we can help silence all those what-ifs they're battling and give them peace. To close this out, I'll leave you with Amanda. If anyone knows anything, there are different ways that you can
01:10:50
Speaker
get your tips turned in. You are always more than welcome to Facebook message the Bring Samantha homepage. The Grays County Sheriff's Office has a Facebook page that you can also message. You can always call the Grays County Sheriff's Office with your information. Crime Stoppers is another avenue that you can go
01:11:15
Speaker
And I would like to remind everyone that there is a $10,000 reward for her location or the arrest and conviction of those responsible for her disappearance. And we do work on trying to raise that every chance we can.
01:11:35
Speaker
Again, please like and join our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast to continue the conversation and see images related to this episode. As always, follow us on Twitter, at casescoffee, on Instagram, at coffee cases podcast, or you can always email us suggestions to coffeeandcasespodcastatgmail.com. Please tell your friends about our podcast so more people can be reached to possibly help bring some closure to these families. Don't forget to rate our show and leave us a comment as well. We hope to hear from you soon.
01:12:05
Speaker
stay together stay safe we'll see you next week it's love notes with maggie and alison and this week we do have a lot of love going out to some
01:12:35
Speaker
Cute names. Yes. Super cute. To Sandy with an I, Michelle, Kelly, Kat, Cheyenne, and Mitzi for reaching out to us on social media or sending us messages. We love that, so keep them coming. Yes, and a special bounty of love to Mitzi in particular who has also just joined our Patreon family.
01:13:02
Speaker
We love having you there. We hope you are enjoying all the bonus episodes and content. Mitzi is now one of my new favorite names since I've just saw her name on here. And I feel like I need to soar that in my brain for if we ever have a girl, because it's such a cute name, Mitzi.
01:13:19
Speaker
So speaking of Patreon, if you yourself would like access to bonus content or just to support this two woman show, please consider joining us over on Patreon. You just go to patreon.com slash coffee and cases. It is convenient conveniently linked in the show notes. So you don't even actually have to type that in. You just click a little link to see all the different options. Yes.
01:13:45
Speaker
Because we really appreciate all of those who financially support the podcast, but we also appreciate everyone who uses their voice to support us as well. So thank you also and lots of love to the three new five star written comments.
01:14:06
Speaker
We want to thank and show love to Hubert JG, who wrote, quote, Hi, Maggie and Allison. I love listening to your podcast. A fan from Malaysia here. End quote. Oh, thank you so much. I'm so glad you found us. And we also have lots of love going out to Julia Hamill. Andros perhaps could be the last name there. Yeah.
01:14:34
Speaker
Who wrote, that's what we're going with. I wrote, quote, I just found this podcast and I love it. Thorough research, crisp presentation and clean language. It's like spending time with friends, end quote. And you know, it feels that way for us too. Yeah, because we are friends. So we also have so much love going out to Leah Kane or Lee Kane.
01:15:04
Speaker
And she wrote, quote, I heard about this podcast through the moms and mysteries podcast and just had to check it out. I love it. I try to find thought provoking podcasts that are informational. And this one is great. Extra bonus is that these gals are super professional and don't use vulgar language.
01:15:27
Speaker
something that means a lot to me. Thanks ladies for your great work." End quote. No thank you for your kind words. And I have one more shout out of love going to Amanda. So much love this week. I know. I love it. Whose Facebook review I think we somehow missed along the way. So we're sorry. So Amanda you get extra love because we're a little delayed in giving you the love.
01:15:55
Speaker
But she wrote, quote, Maggie and Allison are among my favorite podcasters of all time. I love the way they bring stories to us and make us want to get involved to help the families get closure. Thank you and keep up the great work. End quote. Well, that was so nice, Amanda. And we're so glad that our message and intent
01:16:15
Speaker
with the show is ringing loud and clear because really that is what it's all about, being involved, helping these families find closure. And with that, all of our love is going out to each and every one of you. Until next week, Sleuth Hounds.