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Nos Audietis, Episode 266: The most dangerous lead
63 Plays8 years ago
It’s been a somewhat up and down season but the Seattle Sounders are on the precipice of a second consecutive MLS Cup appearance. They’ll head into Thursday’s second leg holding a 2-0 lead over the Houston Dynamo, a lead that should frankly be bigger after dominating the first leg.
From a historical perspective, this is about as big as leads get. Just three times before in MLS history has a team headed into the home leg holding a two-goal lead and in all three instances the leading team went on to win by four goals.
This week's music: "Star Blazers Theme", Perry Como - "Seattle", RVIVR - “The Tide”, Woody Guthrie - "Roll On Columbia"
Thanks to James Woollard, Sounders Public Address Announcer, for doing our sponsor reads. You can follow him on Twitter at @BritVoxUS - if you're looking for a British Voice to advertise your business or non-profit, please reach out to him.
Music used in the sponsor reads: LASERS - “Amsterdam”
Want to hear the music from the show in their glorious, full versions? Check out the Nos Audietis playlist on Spotify!
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Transcript
Sponsors and Introductions
00:00:00
Speaker
This episode of Nos Adietes is sponsored by Queen and Acupuncture. Queen and Acupuncture has over a decade of experience healing the injuries of athletes. Marathon runners, snowboarders, yoga instructors and weekend warriors have all found relief from pain and have enhanced performance with the use of Acupuncture and Chinese medicine. Queen and Acupuncture has treated players from many of the Seattle area soccer leagues for a wide range of injuries.
00:00:30
Speaker
Acupuncture also happens to be one of the best treatments for stress. Located in the Queen Anne neighborhood of Seattle, you can conveniently book an appointment online today at QueenAnneAcupuncture.com.
00:01:06
Speaker
The bluest skies you've ever seen are in Seattle And the hills the greenest green in Seattle Like a beautiful child growing up
00:01:24
Speaker
Welcome back to another edition of No Spotty at Disc, sponsored by Full Pool Wines, Queen Anne acupuncture, Verity Credit Union, Designers Marvel, and her broadcast partner Bootstrapper Studios. This is episode 266, and we're recording on Monday, November 27, 2017. I am your host, Jeremiah O'Shan, and I'm joined by co-host, Aaron Campo, and our engineer, Lickett. Also joining us on the show is linkedin.com slash in slash Richard, hyphen Farley, hyphen 2051934. Not my name.
00:01:52
Speaker
Not my name at all.
Sounders' Path to MLS Cup
00:01:55
Speaker
It's been somewhat of an up and down season, but the Sounders are on the precipice of a second consecutive MLS Cup appearance. They'll head into Thursday's second leg holding a 2-0 lead over the Houston Dynamo, a lead that should frankly be a little bigger after dominating the first leg. From a historical perspective, this is about as big as leads get though. Just three times before an MLS history as a team headed into the home leg holding a two goal lead
00:02:17
Speaker
And in all three instances, the leading team went on to win by four goals. Given all that, how are you feeling about this first leg, Aaron? Good. I mean, it'd be kind of weird to feel any other way, you know, coming home with a 2-0 lead. I guess I could feel better if the Sounders had, I feel like really killed off the game. I mean,
00:02:42
Speaker
I even feel crazy saying that because the odds of Houston winning 3-1 or 4-2 or whatever in Seattle are so paltry. But yeah, I'd feel better if they'd scored a third or a fourth, but they didn't, and 2-0 is pretty fantastic.
00:03:01
Speaker
I just, you know, it's, it's always kind of weirdly nerve wracking to be in a situation like this, more so than, you know, going in with a more typical result, like a one one or something. Because if you blow it, it's, you know, going to be a historic kind of collapse.
00:03:21
Speaker
But I just, you know, I'm just not super worried about that. And my biggest concern, you know, aside from not just completely collapsing obviously is
00:03:32
Speaker
you know, getting out healthy and hopefully maybe getting Jordan Morris some playing time. Yeah, I mean, that's really all I'm concerned about. If they get a goal early, I would not be disappointed if they pulled some key players at halftime. That would be, that would, I actually don't know that I would want to see them pulling players. I like put this thing pedal to the metal.
00:03:57
Speaker
win it, whatever you need to win it by. But I think if the center said only 1-1-0, given the way that the first leg unfolded, that would have been disappointing because they had missing the penalty, then there was several other chances, the ball off the post or off the crossbar, all that kind of stuff. But getting that second goal, holding Houston to zero, it's hard to look at it as anything other than a very satisfying result.
00:04:28
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, and the Sounders are the better team too. Right. Exactly. Two goals at home against a Houston team that, you know, fair play to them. They beat Portland, but I don't think, I don't really think Houston is one of the two or three best teams in the Western conference. So they've made this run. I think Seattle is a demonstrably superior team. So.
00:04:49
Speaker
If you can't feel good about the situation, then you just probably can't feel good about anything.
Tactical Analysis of Houston Match
00:04:53
Speaker
Yeah. And maybe you should be considered sports. I mean, a Houston team that's missing Jalil and they're starting right back and then they're missing, there's probably their best offensive player. And it's a team that is like, maybe it's money this you're playing on the counter. Right. And so Seattle really doesn't have to expose themselves if they want to. And the fact that you can set up your team in a certain way to have
00:05:17
Speaker
a very possession heavy midfield. And in this case, maybe not having Roman in the back line and having somebody like a Gustav Svensson there would actually be helpful because he's better with the ball on his feet than Roman is. Yeah. So I, unforeseeable things happen in sports all the time. So it should go without saying that the Houston can win, but I don't really think it's
00:05:38
Speaker
not to jinx anybody but i don't really think it's worth a lot of time trying to conceive of ways houston can win this one beyond randomness happening was there anything in that game that you thought the sounders needed to do differently or better that they might not be able to get away with in the second leg no i mean i thought it's so hard to judge the game because the red card was sorely but even before that i thought this seattle played really well and really it's just
00:06:06
Speaker
It's such a small period of time that even if you wanted to extrapolate something from it, like you have to question whether that thing that you're focusing on would have really continued over the next hour. I think what I'm doing now is looking back over Vancouver and the games at the end of the season. I'm going to look on Thursday to see how what Brian is doing with the team matches up with whoever wins on Wednesday.
00:06:27
Speaker
And I think that might influence who ends up getting playing time at the end of the game. Because Brian and his staff are going to have a pretty good idea of what they're going to want to do against Toronto and Columbus. Maybe not have it fully fleshed out. But in their mind, they're going to already think, OK, this particular player is going to be more important against this team than he would this team. So maybe we give Victor extra minutes or we know that
00:06:47
Speaker
It might not be worth risking Jordan as much or what, whatever they deem is most appropriate. But if they get a first half goal or up three, nothing gets a counterattacking team. You might see the last 45 minutes about getting players that are going to be key in the cup final, a run out and shake off some rest.
00:07:03
Speaker
So, Aaron, bringing up that red card, I know this was one of the things that we talked a lot about off the air was the call, but more than the call, the rampant misunderstanding of what the actual rule is.
00:07:19
Speaker
yeah i was super annoyed about that because a lot of people that i think as you as you said should have known better um you know saying oh you can't you can't get set off for doxo but you can uh and it was right there in the original release about the rule change um in the laws of the game uh it's come up several times this year uh it's you can get sent off three times in severs games yeah three times
00:07:45
Speaker
that a Sounders fan might not understand the rule is kind of crazy to me because we've seen this three times. But what were people saying? That you can't get a red card for dog. So well, if it's a penalty, it's a penalty. Right. But there are circumstances where. Right. Obviously. Right.
00:08:01
Speaker
And the whole point of the rule change was to prevent a situation where somebody gets sent off and gives away a penalty and gets suspended for a foul that's still a foul in the area.
00:08:19
Speaker
Right. Really, it's four different kinds of punishment. But cynical
Red Card Rules and DOGSO Discussion
00:08:25
Speaker
fouls, professional fouls, whatever you want to call them, like we saw, they're not included in that. If you make that foul in the area and it's doxo, it's still a red card. That never changed.
00:08:39
Speaker
a lot more annoyed about it than I should have been. I think because it wasn't stressful in a playoff game that I had all that pent up energy had to go somewhere else and it was me being annoyed about that. We debated the rule earlier on the season when Brad Evans got sent off for dogso. I still don't think it was dogso, so it's not necessarily a cut and dried thing, but the idea that
00:09:01
Speaker
You know, and I saw a lot of people saying like, Oh, MLS is such Bush league. You know, they don't, they don't even, the refs don't even know the rules, which is really embarrassing to be that wrong about something. And to be clear, it's not just that it's a dog. So situation, it's that whether or not the defender makes a play on the ball.
00:09:21
Speaker
And so in the Brad Evans situation, it was deemed that his second leg was basically purposely to trip the... I can't remember who it was that he was tripping, but it was... I don't remember either, yeah. It was that his trailing leg essentially was what made it a red-cardable offense in top of the place. That game was so long ago, jeez. And then of course in the... Brad Evans was still playing.
00:09:44
Speaker
right exactly and then the more recent time that was almost an exact replica of this was the was the rapids game where axl soyberg uh basically tugged on will brewin's shirt from behind and i thought it was a very soft penalty or not it was a fair penalty i thought it was a soft red card but
00:10:03
Speaker
If the rule is that if you're the last man and you're not making a playing ball and tugging a guy's shirt, it's not just like in this game, you know, Janela Anababa pulling Jovan Jones is certainly not playing the ball. It's pretty straightforward. Yeah. I mean, I will admit that I'm not 100 percent clear on the rules when these things come up. So when, you know, this happened, I was watching the game with somebody. I had to bring it up. It's like, oh, can like, you know, just talk it out. But at the same time, that's also why I'm not sitting there tweeting about it.
00:10:29
Speaker
Well, and also if they're reviewing it for an interpretation of the rule, I think at some point you have to just like, they have a rule book that they can consult, presumably. Well, let's hope they don't need it. Hopefully they're ready to learn it on this stuff. They don't need it, hopefully. Right. I think it was just this so like being so assured that you're right about something that there's all this evidence that you're not and you're still sticking with it. Yeah. So one of the other things that I thought came out of this game that was
00:10:58
Speaker
really kind of encouraging to see was the play of Jovan Jones as a left midfielder. We've seen him obviously play very well. We've seen him have moments, but I thought this was probably Jones best game as an attack. It feels like the three of us have talked about this on the show before. Right, it does. Like, you know, Jovan Jones playing left mealfield. Is there somebody here that when he comes on the show says that's a good option?
00:11:22
Speaker
is there somebody here that has been saying that since earlier this season that you know all things being you might as well just if you're gonna fool around like this might as well put joe jones at left field is is there somebody on this on this podcast that has consistently said that before i don't i i don't recall any if there is i hope it's not gonna be an asshole about it i'll show i do i do too because
00:11:41
Speaker
God
Jovan Jones' Performance and Tactical Insights
00:11:42
Speaker
knows I've never said that he would be a bad option as an attacking off, you know as an attacking option, but Joking aside and yes Richard has I believe one of the few disagreements That we've even had on the show was yeah how good of an option? He is as a as a well to be honest with you Aaron almost had me convinced the last time we talked about it's like Oh Aaron does watch a lot of this stuff nice
00:12:06
Speaker
But I just thought this was exactly the kind of play that we wanted to see. Now, he could have had an even better game. He missed two pretty good opportunities to score. But the ball he had to will ruin the cross is just they don't get better than that. I mean, right? I mean, that's a perfect cross. And then his speed all game was just giving Houston all kinds of fits.
00:12:33
Speaker
It was an, I mean, I don't know, both you and I have been down on Jovan Jones as a left mid. Are you ready to revisit that idea? No, I mean, I think my... I was invited by the show with an offer.
00:12:52
Speaker
I mean, I've never thought that he was a bad option, just that he's a much better left back. And I think that Nuhu being as good as he has been consistently kind of changes the equation. Because I think before it was more of a conversation about
00:13:10
Speaker
You know, um, does it make sense to play Jovan at left midfield because he does these things as a left-back and you want to get that stuff into a more advanced position. And now it's more of a, Hey, do we, you know, can we do this and get new on the field and still, you know, have an effective left midfielder? Um, so, but I mean, you know, all things being equal, I would much rather have Jovan played left back and, and the Coronary has started at left midfield. Um, but he did have a great game, you know, I'm certainly not going to.
00:13:39
Speaker
Um, disagree with that. But yeah, I mean, I, I still think his best position is at left back and I still think that the Sounders are best when he's not playing at left midfield. Yeah. No, I completely agree. And I also agree with you that I would rather have Jovan Jones at left back and Victor Rodriguez in the lineup. I think, and I think a lot of, a lot of the value I think Jovan Jones has right now, as you alluded to is the fact that he is a good compliment for new and that when new does venture forward, um,
00:14:06
Speaker
Jovan is the best person on the team that's going to be able to cover and transition. And so you're effectively never going to leave that side vacated in defense when you have those two playing together over there.
00:14:17
Speaker
Yeah, and he did have a really, really good game defensively. And I think that's something that kind of gets overlooked at the left midfield spot. And it's something that's been a problem for him this season. And I think the more now that he and Nuhu are a little more comfortable with each other and know each other a little bit more, he's been really solid defensively at left midfield the last few outings he's had there. So the one kind of gray cloud in all of this was probably Roman Torres picking up his second yellow of the playoffs.
00:14:45
Speaker
which means that he's going to miss the second leg, which leaves Brian Schmetzer really with effectively two choices. I don't think Jordy Delham is really in consideration for this. He has played once in like three months, and I would be a little shocked to see him suddenly get a start in what is essentially the most important game of the season. Assuming that's not really an option, the two choices seem to be either bringing in Tony Alfaro as a straight swap,
00:15:11
Speaker
and letting him play center back or bringing in or sliding Gustav Sensen back, bringing in, dropping Nikola Dero back and essentially inserting Victor Rodriguez into the lineup. One of those, I guess, I won't get into what do you think will happen.
00:15:32
Speaker
But what do you want? Or I guess I'll ask you both. What do you think do you want to happen? What do you think will happen? For me, I would say that I think that Svensson probably plays center back. I time traveled to the last segment and Richard had some information that convinced me that that's probably what's going to happen.
00:15:56
Speaker
So yeah, I mean I think that it makes sense. The thing with Alfaro is that he's scary. He's good for one or two plays a game that
00:16:09
Speaker
Um, you know, couldn't get you in a situation where you have a red card and gave away a penalty and you're, you're down to man at home. Um, which, you know, we kind of saw how that went, uh, last week. So, you know, it just, he makes me nervous. Um, and it's, you can kind of put up with that during the middle of the season, but in the second leg of the playoffs, uh, not, not so much. So I think Svensson probably starts and I think that's probably what I would want to see, uh, as well. And.
00:16:36
Speaker
I don't think anybody would be surprised to hear me say that I love Nico Lodero as a sort of a defensive, not defensive midfielder, but playing in that deeper role next to Roldon. I think he's really good there. I think it might actually be his best position. So yeah, I mean, that's what I'm hoping to see. I wouldn't be shocked if we saw Delon though. I mean, he was pretty solid against Vancouver. And if you want a little bit more of a defensive posture, I think he gives you that.
00:17:03
Speaker
Did Delim play against Vancouver? Yeah, he's part of the starting 11. He did, yeah. Oh, I guess they totally blanked on that. Yeah. Huh. Because Alonzo got hurt. Yeah. Alonzo got hurt in that and the first slide. Alonzo and the bench. Yeah. Right. That's right. Yeah. Wow. All right. Well, now I'm having to rethink this. Maybe Delim isn't. Do you want to re-record the segment? Right. Re-record the segment. Now I'm wondering. I don't know. Do you think Delim is an option? No. Am I over? Am I? No, I thought you're.
00:17:32
Speaker
I mean like when you so what do you think what do you think's gonna happen? I think good stuff drops back in defense and then You know, I think the way that they control the second leg at home with the Nico Roll down midfield. I think that kind of gave Brian a proof of concept on this one and I think the only way that Houston really hurt you is if they get you out on
00:17:53
Speaker
If they go on the counter and get your slower guys in space and having one less slower guy on the field, having good stuff there, I think makes sense. Yeah, I mean, I guess you can even argue that the few moments that that the center's defense looked vulnerable was when
00:18:10
Speaker
was when Roman Torres was basically forced to chase guys, kind of match guys for speed. But this is a, I mean, the Sounders, if there's a team that could be better positioned to see this out, I don't know that, I mean, the Sounders had 70, 18 games they played at home so far this year.
00:18:32
Speaker
Not a single one of those results would have result, if they make any result that they've had of the 18 they go through, including the one zero loss to Toronto. They're writing a, what is it now? 500 plus minute shutout streak, which is like 180 minutes longer than the second longest shutout streak in MLS history, or playoff shutout streak in MLS history. And they haven't given up a goal at home in something like 425 minutes.
00:19:02
Speaker
I mean, there's all these things that just point to, like, this is the exact situation the Sounders have dreamt of. And again, they're just much better than the Dynamo. I mean, this isn't like you're getting a... It isn't like last year where Seattle was the four seed and they were coming into their own. Right. Houston's season was better at the beginning. Right. And they've been kind of fading. They needed nine timbers to get injured and they then needed a game that played to the away goal rules. Yeah, I think that...
00:19:31
Speaker
Seattle is in such a great situation here that if they go out and play the way they can that it's going to be fine. I think this is where the virtues have having somebody like Brian Schmetzer as your manager helps. Like I was thinking about this while we were between segments here and just I don't think anybody really talks about Brian as being either tactically inept or tactically brilliant. But I think there is something to be said that a coach has to
00:19:52
Speaker
almost allocate his resources. And by not fooling around with tactics so much, he's basically saying to the team, we're not trying to outsmart anybody. Our thing is we have better players who are going to outwork you, and we're going out to execute you. And that's how we're going to do it. So when you get into a situation like this, you don't need tricks. You don't need anything. You've built up a work ethic within the team that makes everybody responsible for their performance over 90 minutes. And I think that's where the virtues of Brian Schmetzer really, really come through.
00:20:21
Speaker
No, that's a good way of putting it, and I don't know that I've ever quite heard it put that way, and that's a good place to end this segment on. We're gonna come back, have a little conversation, a little about what's going on with the rain. Laura Harvey, you have some particular insight into that. You're listening to no audio at this.
00:20:41
Speaker
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Speaker
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Sponsorship and Coaching Changes in NWSL
00:21:33
Speaker
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00:22:00
Speaker
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00:22:21
Speaker
So we have Richard here who is, I don't know, I'm going to call you the foremost authority on NWSL news these days. The former foremost authority? You're still, I mean, you're still breaking news. Maybe you didn't break news today, but you were the biggest story of the NWSL. Not regarding the rain. I didn't. Right. Okay.
00:22:42
Speaker
Well, the biggest story of the NWSL offseason, I guess, has been probably 1A would be RSL getting a team. But close behind that, maybe 1B is the whole saga around Laura Harvey. And that has a lot of ins and outs. And I'll just go ahead and
00:23:02
Speaker
You know, Laura Harvey obviously is no longer the Seattle rain head coach. She's now the coach of the, as record, as of this recording, the still unnamed, uh, unnamed until Wednesday. Yeah. Right. That's when they're revealing it. Okay. So the still unnamed salt Lake, uh, NWSL team, but why don't I I'll just let you, I'll just let you take it. I don't assume that everyone that's listening to this podcast knows everything about what's going on. So yeah, where should I start? Let's.
00:23:26
Speaker
So let's start with the season ending and Laura Harvey's, like, and Laura Harvey's kind of a, sure, situation. So, Laura Harvey leaves the Seattle rain towards the end of October, but by season's end, her and Bill Predmer are already talking about the future of the team. And at that point, Laura eventually communicates to Bill that it might be a good time
00:23:55
Speaker
for them to go there. Go there with separate ways makes it sound like there's some kind of animosity, but really it's just the type of thing where they're evaluating the future and how much lower it could commit compared to other jobs that are out there. And at that point, that's when Bill Predmore goes out and really starts pursuing Vlad Kwanovski. Was that his number one choice? Yeah, I think it was his only choice because Flacco like, you know,
00:24:20
Speaker
maybe we'll allude to in the future, is the most respected coach amongst his peers in the NWSL. And Vlaco was out of contract with his team, the former FC Kansas City. So after, I don't know, a month of pursuit on that, Vlaco decides to come to Seattle and simultaneously, Laura makes her resignation official, although she's still staying with the team during the transition period.
00:24:41
Speaker
At the time, what I reported at 442 was what multiple sources have told me and have since affirmed to me, is that Laura Harvey, part of her motivation for leaving Seattle was that she had been offered a role with US soccer.
00:24:55
Speaker
sometime between that resignation and well really been able to narrow down what happened over the last few weeks, that role disappeared or it wasn't officially firmed up. So as of a few weeks ago, Laura Harvey is surprisingly a free agent. Well, during that time,
00:25:17
Speaker
Merritt Paulson convinces Del Loy Hanson to start a franchise in the NWSL. They're awarded all of FC Kansas City's players. And the number one coach that could possibly out there is Laura Harvey. And it went really quick. Laura flew out to Salt Lake City last Monday, I believe. From what everything I'm told, she was incredibly impressed, which most people ourselves is an awesome organization. So that's not really a surprise. And as a result, she ends up in
00:25:45
Speaker
Utah and her and black koinosky have essentially swapped squads i think the one thing that i need to get out there and i'll be writing about this later this week is that there's a lot of suspicion as to why laura left the ring because nobody gets it especially since she's not going to us soccer now why exactly that us soccer role disappeared i don't know um that's for other people to say um if other people would say to the extent it was ever actually offered um but
00:26:12
Speaker
There wasn't ever a plan to leave Seattle and then join another NWSL team. I think that Laura would have never left Seattle if she wanted to stay in the NWSL. But the way the timing worked out,
00:26:24
Speaker
Seattle has their second coach in franchise history and RSL has a coach that will, for the second time in her career, be starting up a new team. So I think from a local perspective, there's a lot of Seattle rain fans that are struggling to get their head around it for the reasons that you're saying, but also that they're just having, like, I think there's a suspicion that there's something untoward going on here, that there's like an invisible, maybe not so invisible hand that's moving pieces around the puzzle to get, to get
00:26:54
Speaker
people in positions. But if you take a step back, I'm not sure it makes any sense. Like I guess one of the ideas is that the NWSL essentially has engineered this so that Laura would be at a more prestigious franchise or something. But I don't know that that makes, that's really insulting to Bill and Laura that you think that they would let that happen.
00:27:19
Speaker
Well, and beyond that, they ended up with the coach who, if there's one coach who might be considered better than Laura in this league, it's probably VACO, right? Yeah, it wouldn't be worth engineering a conspiracy if you have the opportunity to have VACO. Right.
00:27:35
Speaker
doesn't quite make sense. So I think a lot of the things that we're hearing out of the Seattle area are justifiably that they don't know much about black. That's just the nature of the NWSL right now. People don't cover life. Black. Is the only coach to win two titles in this league in the five years and not done it with
00:27:51
Speaker
Certainly no more resources than than what the rain have but arguably Resources that were more seemingly more on par with like Boston Breakers Yes, very much so and they've had some you know Just as Laura Harvey over the last couple years and certainly her first year have had some bad injury luck They have had bad injury luck to Amy Rodriguez blew out her knee and after 50 minutes this year
00:28:12
Speaker
They were left putting Sydney LaRue as a striker. She was coming off of a year-long absence from ankle surgery during a pregnancy. She was not able to really perform up to her billing until later in the season. And, you know, Vladko, like Laura, has had his teams barely miss the playoffs the last two years. But I think there's a recognition around the league that Vladko has had very little to work with on his team. I mean, he still has some great players, Becky Sauerbrunn's on that team. And if you're listening to this podcast and don't know who Becky Sauerbrunn is, you're probably offended we're talking about women's soccer at all, right?
00:28:42
Speaker
When you look at Black Ghost teams, the talent just hasn't stacked up to what Bill and Laura have been able to accumulate in Seattle. So when you look at the, you know, the, maybe not Ashes, but you look at the way that this is all kind of settling out. I thought you were going to talk about cricket. Right, exactly. You look at the way this is all kind of settled out. Who do you think are, you know, obviously time will tell, but looking at it right now, who's the winners? Who's the, is there losers in this whole thing? Yeah, I mean,
00:29:11
Speaker
I kind of don't want to get into the US soccer thing too much because I'm not able to provide the level of detail and certainty about how that transpired to really do that justice and I'll just let that lie.
00:29:30
Speaker
You can't hear that connection without it being the big eye-opening part of the story, especially with how people feel about Jill Ellis. I don't think it's fair to Laura. I don't think it's fair to Jill. I don't think it's fair to US soccer. I don't think it's fair to Bill, all of those things. So I'll just leave that there. But when we're talking about winners and losers, I think there are a lot of winners. Much like with Kayla Porter leaving Portland, a lot of people are like, it's just time. It's been five years.
00:29:50
Speaker
Laura was in Seattle for five years. Blacko was with Kansas City for five years. I think both people can look at those teams and go, Blacko tends to be too loyal to his players. And maybe Laura will come in there and make some tough calls and get that team moving forward. And Laura, tactically, maybe need to be a little bit more flexible and Blacko can be more flexible and get that team to the next level. So in that sense, I think both teams are winners. I think the fans in Seattle are kind of losers because on an emotional level, they're never going to bond to Blacko the way they bonded to Laura. And that just speaks to it.
00:30:18
Speaker
Right, and Laura was just such a big part of what the rain, I mean, in some ways she was bigger than the rain. She's defined their identity and their culture. At the same time, the huge winners here are the fans of Salt Lake, because they're going to get that, which is so key. Laura's legacy is going to live on in Seattle, and now she has an opportunity to carry that legacy on. Bill, I don't know if Bill Predmore is a winner or a loser, because he loses a partner.
00:30:43
Speaker
And he has an incredibly close relationship with Laura. But now he gets an opportunity to work with somebody new for the second time in his ownership career. And there's something to be said about new opportunities there. I think that U.S. soccer is a potential loser if they really did offer something to Laura and it didn't come through or Harvey's a great asset. But the NWSL in general is a winner because two months ago it looked like the league could lose Vlacko Adonofsky to the U.S.L. He had U.S.L. offers.
00:31:06
Speaker
And it looks like they could use Laura Harvey to international soccer, be it England or US. England's a big loser, too, because Laura couldn't afford to wait around for that process to play out. They're not going to be doing their next interviews for another week. So Laura had to take this job. So yeah, a lot of winners and a lot of losers, I believe.
00:31:23
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that's certainly an interesting way of looking at it. Because I think that, and we've kind of gone over this, but I do think that the hardest thing for Rain fans is this, that it's like coming to grips with the idea that Laura Harvey is not gonna be here. And it is not so much not knowing that much about Blacko's resume as much as it is knowing that he's not Laura. He's not Laura, yeah.
00:31:50
Speaker
That seems like a better way to put it than what I did because there seems to be this denial that anything could happen to make Laura want to leave. And I get that because none of us suspected it would happen. And even though there had been rumors about Laura's connections and what she might want to do in her career, most of us were like, well,
00:32:07
Speaker
you know, unless one of those things firmly comes up, she's staying with the ring. And I think for them, it's reasonable to say, you just left for another end of yourself coaching job. That's a really big oversimplification, though, because she didn't. Right. She left it for and she left it for other opportunities. Those opportunities didn't develop. And now she got another great opportunity in the end, but it's too simple to say you left Seattle for that because she didn't.
00:32:31
Speaker
So do we know how the structure of the front office is going to be with Black Oak? Does he assume general manager duties? Is he essentially taking all of Laura's roles or is there other people in the organization that will now assume some of that? So Bill has been very active and has increased his activity level over the years.
00:32:52
Speaker
And this is going to give him another opportunity to increase that activity level. But at the core, the relationship is very much going to be the same. Flacco is going to identify needs and Bill is going to fill them. And whereas Bill is going to be more active about how those are being filled right now, going to be filled going forward, the core of how the front office works is going to be the same.
00:33:10
Speaker
Um, and it's the same thing for laura too. They on the press conference this morning. That was just this morning. Oh my god. Um, the teleconference this morning that rsl have craig weibull made it very clear that laura harvey is not the general manager, but she's 99.9 of the decision making in in utah, so who is the general manager in, uh salt lake craig weibull. Oh, so he's overseeing both. He's doing the gap in wilkinson and doing both. Um, but yeah, I think that
00:33:35
Speaker
Bill has done a great job of acquiring talent. And Laura even has told me that, you know, the secret is Bill was the mastermind of most of these trades. So I think this is going to give him an opportunity to take an increased role and maybe get some of the credit that a lot of people naturally assigned to Laura based on her title. But people maybe should be giving Bill credit a little bit more credit for building the rosters. So this is somewhat unrelated to
00:34:01
Speaker
this move in particular, but I think that it's inescapable that as we see the landscape of the NWSL changing, we see the increased involvement in MLS.
Future of NWSL and Women's Soccer Structure
00:34:14
Speaker
And I don't know that you have any particular insight into this, but I'll just throw it out there.
00:34:20
Speaker
What are the chances that, you know, this time next year, the sounders are playing a similar role as RSL in terms of, like, stabilizing... Yeah, greater than zero. It does not go, that question does not go quite where you thought it was going. No, it did. I thought you were going to start asking me to detail a bunch of negative stuff that I've written before. Oh, okay. No, you don't have to do that. Like, you know, the realities that people get... The stuff that actually got you fired.
00:34:48
Speaker
See, here's the thing about Bill Fredmore. He's really powerful. Right, exactly. No, look, I think that I think it's an inevitable conversation. I think Adrian's relationship, Adrian Hanauer's relationship to people who are major decision makers in US soccer and the NWSL means that he will have a lot of people talking to him about it. I think, though, as long as Bill is willing to foot the bill and take the losses that it's going to need over the next
00:35:20
Speaker
For him, I think it's going to take like six, seven, eight years more of losses. As long as he's willing to do that, then there's no reason for anybody to step in. You're seeing people step in now because the ownership groups that were involved weren't able to sustain the losses. Now, I think there's some natural questions within the NWSL as to how much money do the Predmores have? But there's a lot of due diligence that's involved with owning a team in the US soccer pyramid.
00:35:49
Speaker
you have to have your resources verified. And if US soccer feels comfortable with where the Predmores are at, then I think that Bill and Teresa will continue to push forward. They're as dedicated as any owners in this league, no doubt. And that is something that I don't know how much has been widely reported, but just the idea that Bill Predmer knows enough about women's soccer to effectively be the GM.
00:36:15
Speaker
and you know and we've kind of heard this like whispers of us before that it's like he is much more active than I'm sure any other owner in the league he's I mean in some ways it's like he's like an al day like not without negative coming maybe I don't know he's a benevolent al davis maybe I don't know he's in some ways that he's like closer to jerry jones I guess right like well that was my other thing is that like if you go to the football that it's like he's really active like he's not like
00:36:40
Speaker
Yeah, he's really active. I mean, I guess Adrian Hanauer in some ways was kind of that way in that he was actually carried the GM role. Yeah. But he he's really active. And then Teresa was like a college soccer player and was like, she's a soccer nerd. Yeah. And you see when you see the relationship that Teresa has with these players.
00:36:59
Speaker
You realize just how much they care about this project. Maybe Teresa isn't out there making trades, and I've actually never talked to Teresa in my life. But you hear about the connections she has with these players, you hear about how players regard the Predmores in the atmosphere that they set up there. And I mean, look, the league needs people like Bill Predmore. And as much as I've written about the questions that are in the rain's future,
00:37:26
Speaker
the league's going to be a much better place if those questions get answered positively for Seattle in the rain because you just don't want to lose people that care that much about their team. Right. I mean, these aren't like, we've seen, you know, especially in women's soccer, we've seen, you know, kind of situations where like, well, my kid is really into soccer. So I wanted to, you know, there was almost like, there was literally like the last California team was run, but was named after one of the owner's kids clubs. I mean, like, look, there's a, it's that,
00:37:55
Speaker
that dynamic is still present in the NWSO in some places. Right, but I think it's important to note that the Predmores are doing is something that's like really about their passion and not about like fulfilling some... It's actually like this platonic ideal. I've been thinking about this recently because when I first got involved in covering women's soccer, there was a blog written by Jennifer Doyle
00:38:19
Speaker
who used to run a blog called From a Left Wing about the problems that women's soccer has had growing when all of the clubs are linked to men's clubs and the basic premise is you can never, there's only so high you can go when you're forever a second priority. So yeah.
00:38:37
Speaker
I think for the NWSL in its current stage, being a second priority is still pretty good. The Thorns, you can even argue if they're a second priority, but they're clearly not the first business there. The same thing with the RSL team. Those teams are going to be fine. They're going to be incredibly successful, more successful than the other teams. The platonic ideal of what a women's soccer team should be, this independent number one priority, is what the Predmores are going for here.
00:39:02
Speaker
There are a lot of problems entailed in that, but specifically in this market where the sounders brand is dominant. But the intentions are beyond admirable. They're in a way ideal. And I think that I've found myself thinking about that a lot, that it's like, you know, when the NWSO was founded,
00:39:21
Speaker
I think that we liked this idea that there was only one team that was tied to an MLS squad. And as we've kind of gone forward and more and more teams are becoming tied to MLS squads and we can kind of see a future where, you know, like you look at what's going on in Mexico right now where like all the first division teams, except for I guess a couple. Yeah. 16 of the 18 teams, essentially the Federation has made it a
00:39:46
Speaker
a priority, I don't know if it's a demand, but made it a priority to field women's teams. And I don't think that we're, I don't think that's an unbelievable thing that could happen here in US soccer that US soccer basically say, if you're gonna be a first division, you gotta field, you gotta have a women's team. Yeah, I don't think it's so unreasonable both in soccer and basketball for these leagues to say,
00:40:14
Speaker
We would like you to care as much about the women in your community as you do men. And that's what it's really all about. It's about opportunity, right? We want you to be able to give as many opportunities for professional soccer, for youth academy, for recreational soccer, whatever. And when you only have a men's team, there's only so much you can really say that you care about women. Oh, you know, women come see our games too. Well, what you're saying is that women make good spectators, but they don't make good players.
00:40:37
Speaker
Like I don't think it's so much for US soccer to say part of our vision for growth over the next generation Is that every team that cares so much about the men's game? We're asking you to start caring a little bit about the women's game too, but but yet at the same time
00:40:53
Speaker
It does seem like the ideal is that these are standalone organizations that can stand with their own two feet, that have the full attention of the owners, that, you know, in a lot of ways they are what the, I mean, this is what the Pred were, like, as far as I know, this is their business.
00:41:08
Speaker
like yeah with with what's gone on with pop yeah like they they've they've basically like gotten out of their other businesses in order to i don't know expressly to focus on this but they this is this is i mean as far as i know this is like what they do this is what consumes them yeah you know every day and um and so it's like i'm rooting for for them to work out partly because of that like i would like i want the seattle women's soccer i want to
00:41:35
Speaker
thrive and I can see how there's a world where the Sounders can strengthen what the rain are doing but I do hope that the rain maintain a high degree of independence partly because I think it's important where you know because I think it's fair to say if it can't succeed in Seattle where where we have like an independent WNBA team where we have a history of supporting women's sports where we have a more progressive kind of fan base that it's like if you can't make it work in Seattle
00:42:05
Speaker
Can you, what's the hope of making it work really anywhere? No, I think that's a good point. I think that's part of the reason I put it in like really high philosophical terms in terms of like platonic ideals. Like here is a sphere and we're all trying to make spheres because in reality it is still a theory. Right. And there are some practical considerations that are getting in the way. For example,
00:42:28
Speaker
giving all these players a living wage, expanding rosters beyond 20 players, expanding a season so that these players don't have to go to Australia in the offseason to round out their income, getting it to where this is a year-round job for them. It's only a half-season job right now. And all of those things require money.
00:42:45
Speaker
not platonic ideals, they require money. And the league is strong, like quickly moving in that direction. Just two years ago, they doubled the minimum pay in the league. So now that everybody is making a couple thousand dollars a month at least while they're while they're playing in the league. But
00:43:00
Speaker
what that requires is the resources of investors. Now, it'd be great if we had like a bunch of investors who multi-millionaires, however they got their money coming into this league, no MLS ties. And I'm sure the NWSL would like that. In fact, there is one investor that's being pursued like that for the Boston team. However,
00:43:19
Speaker
In lieu of that, would you rather the league just not move forward or would you rather them have MLS affiliation? Well, and I think the MLS affiliation is more, it's more than that. I think there's also the component of like having a place to play and having a place to train. These are all like capital investments that MLS teams have kind of already made. And so they don't have to make them again. You know, like what's going on in RSL is a great example. Like they're building this training facility
00:43:47
Speaker
And I guess their NWSL team is going to play at Rio Tinto, but they're going to have this secondary facility that they could use if they wanted to. But it's like they have, you know, they have the, my point is that they have the infrastructure in place already that was going to, they have all this money. So it's like the marginal cost of adding an NWSL team on top of
00:44:08
Speaker
Your existing organization is much less. It helps offset the cost of building that infrastructure. Once you have all that in place, what you're really doing is you maybe hire one or two people in the front office to help with communications and stuff like that, but you don't need to hire a new GM. You're hiring three to four person coaching staff.
00:44:26
Speaker
You're you have some travel costs and so on and so forth. You're not talking about a multi-million dollar investment as it would be for Yeah, sorry from scratch, right? So that's why it makes so much sense for MLS teams to come on board But at some point you do want to have return on an investment and you want your franchise values to go up like that's just the reason why MLS teams are willing to Consistently lose money because they're making it on the back end in their franchise value, right? Okay, so until the league
00:44:54
Speaker
can stabilize and grow together, even the thorns, how much are they really worth it? Merit Paulson just wanted to sell the thorns because somebody can go in and go, you know, there's still like an X percent chance in my point of view that the league isn't even exist in five years and then my investment goes to zero, which, you know, worst case scenario that could happen. I think the league is in pretty good shape, but you know, you have to, you're not at the point where franchise values are skyrocketing in the NWSL yet. Right. All right. Well, that's probably a good place to call it. Thanks for,
00:45:23
Speaker
informing our readers about this. We don't talk about the rain enough on the show, but I do hope that when we do, it's at least informative. Yeah. Anyway, yeah. Thanks for doing it. Let's answer some questions. Yeah, absolutely. We'll do that right after the break. You're listening to no study at this.
00:45:41
Speaker
Full Pool Wines are based in Seattle, owned and operated by Sanders fans, and have been sponsoring Nota Adieira since 2011. They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, the Pacific Northwest. Their model is simple. One, they email compelling offers.
00:46:00
Speaker
Two, you request bottles that sound appealing. And three, your wine arrives at their soda warehouse and is ready for pickup or shipping. Their soda tasting room is also open to the public. If you're interested in joining their mailing list or learning more about them, visit fullpawines.com. We'll go back to Nos Adietes. So we'll just go ahead and get right into the questions. Go ahead, lick it.
00:46:30
Speaker
Sure. These are questions that are aimed at Richard specifically, but you guys can also chime in. Oh, that's nice. That's a special guest or something. It's weird. Yeah, this is embarrassing. Okay. I feel like I almost have to tell the truth now. Now you can still make it up. It's fine. Okay. AGTK asks, what are the best and worst case scenarios for the rain in 2018?
00:46:55
Speaker
uh... best-case scenarios that they uh... everything comes together under black and enough ski he fixes these small issues that uh... had a version of our rv and they're one of the best three best teams league uh... worst-case scenario is that the nw cell has gotten so competitive that they actually fall one or two places the standings despite being you know just as good team as they've been the last two years the nw cell is screaming forward in its quality of play and
00:47:20
Speaker
That's the big thing for Waco is he's got to keep up with the rest of the league. Now, um, Lauren fart fallen, Laura's teams had fallen out of the playoffs last two years. I think you could argue that they've fallen behind a little bit and.
00:47:29
Speaker
He's got to deal with that. This is really serious question to start with, geez. I know, really heavy. Here's a question to follow up on that. I can see how the NWSL is where it's going. There's more resources and there's more money, but we haven't seen the Dash really effectively use those added resources. We haven't really seen Orlando
00:47:55
Speaker
um well i guess orlando was in the set was only and they added marta this year so that's right definitely no that's a good point but i guess my question is is this a like do you think rain fans should be worried about next year or is this more of a long-term problem that they're that they should be worried about
00:48:10
Speaker
They shouldn't worry about next year because bill predmore It would be difficult for bill predmore to not be committed to next year at this point Obviously, he's bought in a new coach. They brought in a new striker this week They're they look like they're fully committed however The extent to which the league is screaming forward and how much that is going to cost the predmores To keep up. I think we're at the point where it's going to be an offseason by offseason decision And then you know, we've talked about a lot how the facilities are going to influence that level of commitment. I mean
00:48:41
Speaker
I've obviously written a lot about the rain's future, but despite some scenarios that might not be totally rosy, Bill Predmore is as committed as ever, and as long as he is, the rain are going to be competitive. Okay, related to the coach question, T. Steege asks, I had to see a lawyer, however you go, leave the rain. How is the new manager compared to her?
00:49:07
Speaker
Flacco is the best coach in NWSL history. I know that's not something that a lot of people in the Seattle market will agree with because you have seen Laura Harvey and that's a good argument, but I think if he were to poll his peers in the NWSL, Flacco Adenosky would be the number one rated coach amongst the other coaches in the NWSL. Plus he did beat, technically he beat Harvey twice, right?
00:49:29
Speaker
Yeah. Be Harvey twice. He's the only coach to win two titles. Um, even these last couple of years where his teams were very hamstrung and depleted, he almost got them to the playoffs each year. They finished behind the rain right behind the rain each of the last two seasons. And I think people around the league really admire what Vladko was able to do with teams that were very, very, uh, hamstrung. And then chaining off the lower Harvey question, why is coach of RSL slash NWSL a better job than the coach of the rain?
00:49:59
Speaker
So it's not a given that it is for one, but I think a lot of people would say that RSL
00:50:06
Speaker
within one or two years could be one of the two, one or two best franchises in the whole league, them and the thorns. They have that level of commitment. They have that level of resources. They'll have that level of drawing power. And it's just how it is in the NWSL right now. The things around the job, like the resources you have, they're going to be playing at Rio Tinto. They're going to have access to a $75 million training facility. They're going to have their own dedicated locker rooms at Rio Tinto. I mean, these are all things that help make the job a little bit better.
00:50:37
Speaker
Uh, this next other questions are at Richard, but you guys can also chime in, please. Uh, Rose says, who is the next timbers manager and why is it be else? Uh, and from a sounder supporter perspective, what are the best and worst case scenarios that are realistically possible for the new timbers coach?
00:50:54
Speaker
I have no point of reference for this. I'll be honest with you. I have no idea. I don't know. What kind of coach are they capable of bringing in? Is it that desirable of a job? Yeah, I think it's probably one of the two or three best jobs in MLS.
00:51:11
Speaker
I think that both the jobs up here in this corner of the world is the Seattle and Portland are as desired jobs as any of the league. I mean, maybe Atlanta's job is usurps those now. The Galaxy jobs would have it one time, but that has faded quickly. Besides those teams, I can't, Toronto maybe, but I can't, the atmosphere here goes a long way and the quality of life in these two cities is really high. You've got highly, highly committed ownership in both places.
00:51:41
Speaker
know, I think everybody knows that Garth Lagerwey is very respected as general manager, Gavin Wilkinson is too, just in a very different way. So yeah, I mean, I think that I think that both these places have the ability to draw big name coaches. But as we've seen with Seattle, you don't need to have a big name coach, it's more about the fit than anything else. It's just a question of
00:52:04
Speaker
what kind of fit what constitutes a good fit with the timbers i think is a question do you think that they're like going into this like open-minded like they're just going to interview like a bunch of people or just there do you get a sense that there's someone that's like zeroing no i think um
00:52:22
Speaker
Gavin Wilkinson is actually very good at keeping tabs on a lot of different things, including the candidates available at Lower Leagues, who's out of contract, what it might take to lure somebody like a Greg Berhalter from Columbus, what coaches might be available, whether somebody like Guillermo Berres-Skoloto would be a good fit. And I think that it probably took Gavin just a couple of hours to really zero in on four or five candidates. I was under the impression that he had already reached out to some people before the announcement had been made.
00:52:51
Speaker
I do believe, you know, my fellow departee Paul Tenorio when he says that Greg Berhalter will be the number one target because it's just such a good fit. It's just a matter of whether Berhalter
00:53:02
Speaker
can fit with the power that Gavin Wilkinson and Mary Paulson. Because he's the GM. He's the everything on the technical side. And I think a lot of people automatically assume that since Caleb didn't have that at Portland, that they aren't willing to give it. The simple fact is Gavin just went out and while consulting with him and offering feedback, did what Caleb wanted.
00:53:23
Speaker
And so if Berhalter is willing to do that, then he's gonna get a good job offer from Portland. The other thing about Berhalter is how much has this Austin Fiasco affected his affinity for the crew? Sure, that's fair. Who would you guys like to see? I mean, go ahead and answer this any way you want, but who would you guys like to see hired in Portland? I assume, you know. Carl Robinson. Carl Robinson. I think Carl Robinson would be a wonderful fit. Ziggy Schmidt.
00:53:51
Speaker
I think they should bring back Gavin Wilkinson. Gavin Wilkinson. I think he'd be a great fit as head coach. I really think Gavin. Bruce Arena. Bruce Arena. All good choices.
00:54:03
Speaker
Kurt Anolfo. Thompson. Yeah. Tim Sherwood. Who'd you say? Tim Sherwood. Tim Sherwood. I like that Tim Sherwood's a good shout. Tim Sherwood in Portland would be great. I'm not quietly. I would love that. Kurt Anolfo. Do you know how much fun it would be to cover Tim Sherwood? It would be the best. Oh my god. Tim Sherwood anywhere but Seattle would be great. John Spencer. Yeah. There's a lot of guys I'd really like to see. I think Merritt should go back to the well with John Spencer.
00:54:33
Speaker
Yeah. Maybe Dunkin' Here. Dunkin' Here. Frank Gallop is out there. Frank Gallop is currently like the GM of the Phoenix Rising. No, he left them. He's at Fresno now. Oh, that's right. I think Preckie. Preckie. Preckie. Preckie, local legend. Preckie. Preckie is joining Pop Bradley staff. I think. No, wait. No, he's taking Winola's job at California United. No, it wasn't. Apparently there was some breakdown. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So he might be available.
00:55:03
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. I kind of remember covering Preckie a little bit in California. It wasn't, yeah, it was fine. But anywho, yeah, I don't know. I think the one thing it's like people are speculating that the Timbers will, some people are saying the Timbers will go with a foreign coach for this. I don't know where they're going, but I would find it unlikely that foreign coaches are at the top of Gavin and Merritt's list. Well, when you got this, I mean, we just ticked off a dozen names that would be,
00:55:31
Speaker
pristine fits. So I don't know why you would feel the need to look outside the country. You're right. No, you're sure would be exceptional. Of course, you're good. Clinsman's available. There we go. Now I like the way you're thinking. Yeah.
00:55:49
Speaker
This next question, I want to say that you guys talked about this last podcast, but let's ask it anyways. Would an NIT World Cup be way more interesting to us if Seattle got to host a game like US versus Italy or the Netherlands? Yeah, I think that would definitely make it more interesting. I have to admit that when this was first proposed as this fan idea, I liked the idea from a fan perspective of like, yeah, you're not going to be in it.
00:56:15
Speaker
Why not? Right. But as soon as US soccer was like, yeah, we think we might do this, it's like, oh my God, this is embarrassing. Yeah, it's so lame. I don't think that there's any possible thing that can make me interested in this. I would be so upset if I have to cover it and treat it like it's a real thing. And my name gets on one of those stories trying to treat it as a real thing. I mean, I don't know how anyone can cover an event like that with a straight face. Yeah.
00:56:43
Speaker
I don't know how anybody could play in it either with a straight face. It just seems like such a bad idea. It's a Twitter thread that's coming to life.
00:57:01
Speaker
When it was first proposed as a fan idea, I was like, yeah, that would be kind of cool. But as soon as it became like a thing that could happen, I was like, oh, this is a bad idea. I mean, part of it is like, I know it's kind of cool to see all those names listed on a piece of paper, you know, Italy, Netherlands, US, Ghana. None of those teams are good. Apparently, they were all good enough to miss the World Cup. Yeah. None of those teams are actually that good at soccer right now. Right.
00:57:26
Speaker
And if it was the kind of thing where they were just like, yeah, we're going to, you know, we're going to do a bunch of friendlies in a bunch of cities, uh, with those teams. That would be, I mean, I don't care about friendlies really, but, but it would be less pathetic. But I think like attempting to make it some kind of actual tournament is really what puts it over the edge from just like boring cash grab into actively embarrassing. I kind of hope. What if they just throw an LA galaxy to play with them too?
00:57:55
Speaker
I mean, I kind of hope that they have to like invite an eighth team that's clearly has no international cache and then that eight Honduras. Yeah, we fill it out with Honduras. Yeah, like, you know, the con, the DR Congo ends up winning it all.
00:58:16
Speaker
Okay, regular questions. Open to everyone. Brian underscore Mostrom asks Svensson to center back or Alfaro in the next game. Nuhu or Jones at left back? I guess preference. I think I would rather see Svensson move to center back and then Lidaro kind of play alongside Roldan to the degree that he is capable of actually playing alongside Roldan. And then I,
00:58:46
Speaker
I think I probably have my druthers. I'd rather see Jones at left back and Rodriguez playing left mid. I'm with you, but I don't expect that. I expect it to be. I don't really expect that. Schmetzer really seems to like Jomon at left midfield. And I think, you know, we're probably going to see that. I think if there's a time to mix it up from what you consider to be your best team, this would really be it because
00:59:13
Speaker
You know, it's really your last chance to make any sort of adjustments and see them in practice before the MLS Cup. But I suspect we'll see pretty much the same lineup we saw on last year, whenever the last game was. Brian got to ask a question today at practice about
00:59:32
Speaker
the role of experience of players when he's making these choices, like how much trepidation or how much he factors it in throwing out somebody like an Afaro into a situation like this, given the fact that he has practically no experience in these circumstances. And he gave a kind of a typically diplomatic Brian Schmetzer answer, but his initial reaction to it was facially, not what we usually see from Brian, kind of like his eyebrows perked up a little bit and he kind of made eye contact like, woo,
01:00:01
Speaker
Whoa, like you're asking me a hard question here. And I kind of took his reaction to be like, whoa, throwing a kid out there. I don't know about that. Oh, really? Yeah. So do you think, who do you think? I think Svensson goes back into defense. And then I think with me, I guess I'm kind of remembering last year towards the end of the season. Brian just kind of mostly kept rolling his 11th. Except for like when injuries did know. Absolutely. I would suspect that new who and Jovan start.
01:00:27
Speaker
And they're in the same places. Yeah. I mean, I guess that's a less disruptive. Yeah. Because obviously Christian and Nico have played central midfield once already together in the playoffs. Um, but I guess, well, now that I think about it, I guess if you bring in Ledero, if you drop Ledero back, you actually have room to start both Rodriguez and Jones. Yeah, that's true. Um, cause you could start Rodriguez on the right side. Yeah, that's true.
01:00:57
Speaker
And I think that he's going to like that set up because I think, you know, the same thing with the second league event in Vancouver. The one thing that you want to do is just prevent them from getting out on the counter. So to have a two real good possession players, Christian and Nico there, although Christian gave away that ball or that Vancouver game, that was kind of scary. But to have both of them there, I think, you know.
01:01:18
Speaker
would be good. And I think that was it that no, it was the game in Vancouver where they had to take chat out and move Gustav to central defense for the last 20 minutes anyway. They did. You're right. But he didn't have any trepidation about playing. I mean, give me up a goal that would have been big for the series didn't happen, but he didn't have any trepidation about doing that. That's a good I kind of forgot he had done that.
01:01:38
Speaker
Do you even watch the sounders? No. I just look at the stat sheet. Wouldn't a little bit of a decision be based on V-Rod not being a match fit totally either? Well, I would presume if he played 45 minutes on Tuesday that he's going to be close to 90-fit by now. Yeah, and I think he could also be planning it that he plays 60 and then Jordan comes in to close it. That could be too.
01:02:07
Speaker
Okay. Uh, Ottergirl asks, uh, actually that's who set of questions are about Jordan. Uh, so I'll ask them together. I think Jordan more super sub or starter. Uh, and then T underscore Rob Thomas asks, does Jordan have to play his back, his way back into starting 11 next season, or is he automatically in at the expense of Bruin or Rodriguez?
01:02:29
Speaker
I mean, I'll start by saying, I think there's a close to 0% chance that Jordan Morris is going to start on Thursday. This is someone who hasn't played for three months, basically. Yeah, I don't think Jordan starts again this year. No, I don't. I would be shocked. I mean, I've been saying this for a while, but I don't see a scenario where. Will's not going to the bench. Right. Especially with the way Will's playing. But even if Will wasn't playing great, I just don't think that
01:02:54
Speaker
Jordan Morris can conceivably be 90 minutes fit by the end of the season. He doesn't look 90 minutes fit at practice. Like he looks perfectly healthy, except for his cardio doesn't seem there. I mean, he hasn't right. And then next year, I mean, I think I think the degree to which he's been kind of like handed the starting job ever has been overstated. So I suspect that you'll have to win the job, just like I think he's had to win the job in the past, though.
01:03:21
Speaker
Yeah. And I think that, I mean, we've talked about this a lot this season, but I still am completely unconvinced that Wilbur owns a better player than Jordan Morris. And I think that the odds of there being a competition between those two and Jordan Morris not winning out on his own merits, I think are pretty slim. It gets interesting if they make a, you know, a DP acquisition and it's an attacking player. And I think that's where, you know, there's news.
01:03:48
Speaker
about the DP attacker what do you have some DP sure was I talking to you about this oh yeah you did tell me this well I'm not gonna I'm not gonna totally share it because why it's not you've done this yeah it's not mine to share but I will say that do not be surprised do not be surprised if that you have another DP attacker come in and it's not a number nine it's an attacking midfielder in the in the Nico Lodero vein
01:04:11
Speaker
Uh, which to me, you know, that would seem to hint that they still envision Jordan's primary position as a number nine. To me, it also hints that maybe Clint sees more time as a nine next year too. Because at that point, if they have, I mean, I think that the, the Clint show that he's capable of filling out role. I mean, if you have mystery acquisition plus Lodero plus Rodriguez, probably a couple other players capable of playing on that line.
01:04:35
Speaker
It would hint that if you want to get all those players on the field at the same time, Clint's going to have to play a number nine. But I've already let too much slip. It's not my story to share. We'll talk off error. Right. Just a DM chart, Richard, if you want to know the answer. Just ignore me. I'm unemployed and can just make things up now. Right. OK.
01:05:02
Speaker
Ro says, asks, we want Columbus, right? Am I overthinking this when I feel better about our chances in Toronto due to history, the pressure on them to deliver, et cetera, right?
01:05:14
Speaker
I mean, honestly, I don't think you are overthinking it. I think that if the Sounders play Toronto, they go into that game playing with house money. I think Toronto is definitely the more, well, I don't know that they're definitely the more talented team. They were the better team on the whole this year. That's beyond debate, but they haven't been great for the last couple of months.
01:05:41
Speaker
Uh, they are feeling a lot of pressure. I think, I think they're probably feeling more pressure than any other team in the league, uh, on a year to year basis at this point. And.
01:05:53
Speaker
And, you know, I think that the Sounders come in, you know, knowing that they are the reigning champions. And I think that, like, I think mentally it's a better matchup for the Sounders. Now, if you go position by position, I think it's clearly the crew are a better matchup, but then the crew have like the power of the narrative kind of carrying them through, I think at that point. Yeah. What do you think, Aaron? I mean, I think that.
01:06:18
Speaker
I wouldn't much rather play the crew. I don't think it's any accident that Toronto set an all-time points record this season. I think they're an incredibly talented team. And I think that 10 times you play in Toronto 10 times, one-off game, the Sounders maybe won once or twice. I'm not loving that matchup. And there are things about it that I think are maybe overlooked, and those were brought up in the question.
01:06:49
Speaker
even with those factors, I would so much rather play Columbus. I think Columbus is a good team, but I think the Sounders are clearly a much better team. And yeah, I just, I don't know, I would, I would feel much better playing Columbus. Yeah, I think it's entirely possible that right now Columbus is just as good a team as Toronto, but ultimately I would
01:07:14
Speaker
say that the data we've accumulated over the course of the season suggests that that instinct is probably wrong and you want to take on Columbus. Yeah, that's fair. I think with Seattle's strength wide, they're pretty well equipped to match up with the way Toronto plays.
01:07:36
Speaker
So I think it'd be a really good matchup. I think both teams would be very motivated. Obviously, Toronto's motivation is clear, but I think that if I were Brian and the Sounders, I would be pretty tired of people pointing out the whole shots thing in last year's final and want to go in and not only win, but win playing really, really well. I'd still like to see him win in PKs again with no shots on goal, just so that Kurt Larson would have a fit.
01:08:02
Speaker
That actually is much better, isn't it? That is way better. These two next questions are about Schmetzer. Rob Seem asks, why do you think Schmetzer was snubbed in the Coach of the Year voting? And Sandra Trilas asks, how many MLS Cups does Schmetzer have to win before he gets the damning, faint praise of pragmatic as a pragmatic game manager or more than the damning, faint praise?
01:08:23
Speaker
more than I think that I definitely think that Schmetzer is overrated, but it's hard for me to get worked up about the coach of the year
Brian Schmetzer’s Coaching Recognition
01:08:30
Speaker
voting. I mean, I think that Vanny was a pretty clear choice. I think when your team sets, you know, an all time points record, um,
01:08:38
Speaker
that you probably deserve the Coach of the Year award. And the thing that's crazy to me too, by the way, that I had kind of forgotten is that that's including the shootout era as well. And I know they played fewer games then, but it's still crazy to me. But yeah, I think that it's totally fair to think that Schmetzer doesn't get his due, and I think that's true. And I've
01:09:00
Speaker
He's convinced me this season that he's a much better coach than I thought he was last year. But, you know, I definitely think that the Vanny was deserving of the award. And I think that when you have someone that's that clear of, you know, of an award winner, that there are going to be some pretty weird outliers that finish higher than you would expect. Carl Robinson, I think is a great example of that.
01:09:26
Speaker
Well, first of all, I'm pretty sure you meant that Schmetzer is underrated, not overrated, right? Yes, that is correct. Okay.
01:09:37
Speaker
Wow, no, I was like, okay, well. You're like, just laying it on. I mean, like, no, sometimes Aaron has opinions about coaches that, you know, they're all, when he explains them, you're like, oh, okay, I can see it that way. So maybe there was something about, you know, I'm pretty sure like at various times he would have said that Ziggy Schmidt is overrated, even though, you know, a lot of people, MLS coaching legend and Aaron would just be like, he's not doing anything special.
01:09:57
Speaker
I will say that I don't think that Greg Vani winning coach of the year is remotely controversial. And I'll add that talk to Martino finishing first or second. Like if Martino had won, I think it would have been fine. And finishing second, like them being one too, I don't think is the way it relates to Schmetzer. It's that he didn't place in the top six.
01:10:20
Speaker
he got somewhere less than 2% of the vote. Maybe he got 0% of the vote. I don't know. We don't know exactly what percentage he got. But I think that's the thing that like shocks me is that it's like you had guys like
01:10:34
Speaker
I can't even pronounce his name. The guy at the fire, which I should know. Velko Panovich. There you go. I mean, he did a fine job, but he was third. Carl Robinson was fifth. Who was fourth? Patrick Vieira. Patrick Vieira was fourth, and Greg Burghalter was sixth. And I don't know, maybe Schmetzer is rightly rated below those guys in terms of what they did this year. But I just think it's amazing that Brian Schmetzer
01:10:59
Speaker
Probably has the highest winning percentage of any active coach in the league and he hasn't finished and he didn't finish in the top three last year Which I think is much more shocking But I just don't think for whatever reason like the people that follow this league just are not and he doesn't do anything to like promote himself He has this very awshucks kind of attitude and press conferences. No one comes away from press conferences being like oh my god He is so smart
01:11:24
Speaker
Um, but yet the results are there and he clearly understands management. This is hilarious to me. You guys can't see this, but in the chat that we have, uh, while we're organizing this, they just loaded one of Chris Henderson's tweets and it completely dovetails with the illusion to a designated player signing that I.
01:11:43
Speaker
Yeah, so look at Chris Anderson's tweets and you'll have you'll start you'll you'll be well on your way You're down the path that we would have otherwise taken you. Yeah, they also can't see me who asking who you're talking about Yeah, I wish I could actually log in right now But I can't I'm not at my computer. I mean, I think the thing with Brian is that you know with coach of the year there has to be some kind of narrative behind it I think there has to be a story to tell to sell voters and
01:12:12
Speaker
The Western Conference this year wasn't that great. So finishing second in it, it's not going to look romantic. It's the same reason nobody talked about Kayla Porter for Coach of the Year, even though Porter finished on top of the West. So when you have the stories of Atlanta and Toronto out there,
01:12:28
Speaker
Yeah. And even like some of the other stories like Chicago's turnaround, Chicago's turnaround. A lot of people don't think there's a lot of talent on New York city's roster. So they think VR is doing really well. Carl Robinson, of course, Vancouver was in first place for a long time when the voting before the voting happened, even though anybody with any, even a minor curiosity about advanced, any kind of analytics can see that. You don't need to be into advanced analytics, just like basically looking
01:12:51
Speaker
like have understanding that like the more you shoot the more likely you are to score and the more shots you allow the more likely you are to allow goals like if you just look at it like from this yeah and then you know burr halter has a lot of respect around the league and columbus close strong so i just think that like if there was some kind of narrative that we could tie to the sounders this year that people would have been willing to um well to consider brian but people didn't consider brian the same way they didn't consider caleb
01:13:21
Speaker
I have a question. Why do they vote several weeks before the end of the season? Well, you don't have to. You can wait until I think your ballots do like the Tuesday before the playing around is. But some people just get it out of the way and some people have it settled in their mind. But I don't know why they release the ballots so early. Yeah, I mean, I guess that's probably more what I'm asking. Yeah.
01:13:47
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. For me, I think I voted before the last game of the season just because there was nothing that was going to happen at that point that would have changed any of my votes, but I held off before. Okay, moving on. Sounder
Sounders' Future and Jovan Jones' Transition
01:14:03
Speaker
follower. I don't think our offense works well without Jovan Jones. Why will we be okay next year? Well,
01:14:10
Speaker
I don't know how much evidence that we have to support the theory that that and I don't know. I guess if you look at like Jones, including Jim as a left back. I don't know. I mean, I think we're going to feel the loss of Jobin Jones, but I'm just not first of all.
01:14:29
Speaker
We're in the middle of a playoff run. I don't know that I'm super inclined to worry about what we're going to do next year with Joeven Jones. But beyond that, I think I'm not, I don't know, I look at the talent on the team that's probably coming back and I'm not freaking out. Yeah, I don't, I don't have a ton of concern about it. I mean, I think that he was monumentally important earlier in the season, but I think really, especially since he's been moved to left midfield, I mean, he's, he's still been an important player. He's still been good, but
01:14:58
Speaker
I feel like it's the team has been less dependent on him. And so yeah, and new who's been so good that new who doesn't do the same things in the attack that Jovan can do, but he's so solid overall that I'm just, I'm not super concerned about it. It sucks to lose them, especially for, you know, for nothing, but
01:15:16
Speaker
And I'd much rather have him back than not, but I don't, you know, I don't think it's going to be an insurmountable problem by any means. And I'll point out that new who's 20 years old, like he's got some growing to do. I think that he's got some he's going to become a better offensive player, I think.
01:15:33
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that the things that would make him a better offensive player are things that, you know, it's pretty easy to see him developing. His delivery is pretty good. He makes pretty decent decisions. I think he just needs a little more polish and maybe a little more confidence going forward. So I think it's entirely possible that, you know,
01:15:51
Speaker
He's probably never going to be Jovan Jones in the attack, but that he's, you know, becomes an above average attacking left back for sure. I think with rare exceptions, teams that are like at the super high end of their success curves, the super peak of it, like this Toronto team, or you think about the Galaxy teams once they have their core settled, like, they're always going to have problems at the beginning of the year, usually an attack, and they have to figure it out. So,
01:16:18
Speaker
Seattle entering next season with a question mark regarding a departed player, there are going to be 21 other teams in the league that have questions about their attacks. And with teams as resourceful as the Sounders are, with as much talent as they have, they're in a far better place to figure out those problems going through the season. And they have 34 games to figure it out.
Expansion Draft and Potential Signings
01:16:37
Speaker
OK, so since you guys love questions about the future right now, I'll ask three more.
01:16:44
Speaker
These next kinds of questions are kind of related, so let me ask them all at once and you guys can just kind of discuss it in general. Discnut asks, with teams releasing their list of players that are not bringing back next year, are there any players on those lists that you think the sounder should sign? arbeck asks, which players do you protect? Is kovar back next year? And tsteige asks, will Brad Evans be back next year? Will he be protected in the expansion draft?
01:17:11
Speaker
Well, let's start with the last one first. I don't think Brett Evans is going to be protected. I don't think that the door is shut entirely on him coming back, but it's going to be at a very reduced number. If he's back, it's going to be at a much lower number than he was on this year. Aaron Kovar, I think, is probably, I don't know for certain how the rules affect Aaron Kovar in terms of if he's automatically protected as a homegrown player.
01:17:42
Speaker
should be. I would think that he will be that he would be protected uh via that rule and but I don't know I don't know I have a hard sense of like I would I would love to see him back because I still think there's a player there's a valuable player there but I can see from his perspective maybe thinking that getting a fresh start wouldn't be such a bad deal. I don't I think if he's unprotected he's not going to be one of the five players taken in the expansion draft. Right well but right so
01:18:09
Speaker
And then the other question was about what was the first one? Are there any players that have been released so far that you think the sounder should sign? Do you have anyone Aaron that you remember seeing that?
01:18:25
Speaker
There are a few that I think are like interesting, maybe project type players, like Jose Villarreal is one of those. You know, where I think that, yeah, he's probably not going to have a great career, but there's clearly potential there. And so as a depth option, you know, maybe he makes sense. Teal Bunbury is another
Humor and Superstitions in Sports
01:18:44
Speaker
one. And we kind of talked about him earlier in the season, when we were talking about
01:18:49
Speaker
Yeah, potential trade targets, Andrew Farrell, which, you know, he would be good depth. And I think also it would be hilarious because, you know, so many people thought that he was clearly much better than DeAndre Yedlin and, you know, signing him to be a backup defender would be pretty funny. But yeah, I mean, it's it's really players like that. I mean, there's nobody that I think is going to comment and be like a big difference maker. And I mean, the biggest
01:19:17
Speaker
glaring weakness I see going in the next season is sort of a left back to push new who and provide some depth and I didn't really see anybody that Stood out in that regard. They got released today. So Ateeba Harris might be interesting as well. I guess is kind of a You know Yeah, but you know, it's it's really players like that and we know I mean we know how important those players are you know, Wilbur and is kind of shown that
01:19:43
Speaker
you know, a guy that didn't seem super exciting at the time can be just absolutely crucial. But it's hard to get excited about those players, you know, a month before the season's over. So for two weeks, whatever, how much time, however much time is left.
01:20:01
Speaker
Okay, moving on. Getting close to wrapping up here. These next set of questions are about superstitions. Matt Oak asks, why do people think booking a flight is going to magically cost us three goals? I mean, I don't know. I don't understand. I have my own superstitions that I have to admit to. I don't know why I ever give myself the
01:20:26
Speaker
uh like why i i hold to them at all like i know logically that they definitely don't matter but yet somehow they do i don't wait i don't understand yeah i'm uh so like you're jinxing yourself if you buy the plane ticket oh yeah see that never even occurred to me or even like look at the yeah you know i um i'm a very beta driven rational person but i have tons of sorts superstitions i think that you know you should embrace them it's fun yeah i definitely don't
01:20:55
Speaker
I don't begrudge anyone who doesn't have their own superstitions though. And so if you want to buy your plane ticket, I'm not going to tell you. Yeah, that's fine. And then as a follow up question, any fret will ask, when should I book my flight? Well, I mean, I would think you would want to book your flight when you know where we're going.
01:21:14
Speaker
Like at the very least from a practical standpoint, the difference between all, although I, I don't know, I guess Wednesday night, I guess. So one said that you can fly to like flying into Detroit would get is equal, is basically the closest direct flight you can get from Seattle to either airport.
01:21:32
Speaker
I'm not sure I believe that. I'm not sure I do either. I'm just saying someone said. Because. Someone. Yeah. I would imagine you can get a direct flight to Cincinnati from CTAC. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, you can't, I know, I'm almost positive you can't. Let's look, let's look here. That's another question. I'm going to do some kayaking.
01:21:50
Speaker
Okay, Tropic Sounders asks, is Will Bruin a Kodiak or Grizzly? And also, do you think he has a full chest bear tattoo? I need details for my fanfic. I made a comment about this the other day because... What were you saying about Will Bruin's chest hair the other day? Tell us. Right, exactly.
01:22:13
Speaker
Grant Waltman a comment about like him breaking up the dancing bear dance. And I thought, I think it's just a very funny enduring thing that has followed him. I mean, he did that like five years ago. He did it once. And like it stuck as like this thing that Will Bruin does. And sure. But he did it like, but it's like, I mean, his name is Bruin. I mean, that's what it is, right? Maybe. I assume that.
01:22:39
Speaker
But it, I thought his thing, that seems like a reason. I thought his thing now is the two thumbs up. That's his new thing. It is seemingly his new thing, except for, I don't think he's done that more than once either. Apparently, apparently you can't get a direct play. Yeah. The slowdown in conversation that you listeners are sensing, right? Is us kayaking. Is two of the four hosts now looking for flights that they have no intention of booking. Right.
01:23:07
Speaker
This segment could be brought to you by kayak.com, however. Right, exactly. Instead, it's gonna be some random search engine. Yeah. If you're for kayak.com and want to sponsor us, please go ahead and contact us. Pretty reasonable rates. We got two last questions for Richard. Actually, this one's not for Richard. This one's for- Oh, good.
Social Banter and Closing Remarks
01:23:31
Speaker
Smash the FCS, how much did you pay Richard for this high level appearance?
01:23:36
Speaker
Yeah, the equivalent of several hundred dollars, I suppose. I've been letting them stay in my Airbnb for free.
01:23:47
Speaker
Nice. Yeah. Is he changing the sheets for you and stuff at the very least? He's doing laundry. He's cleaning bitches. He's reporting what we thought was a missing picture, and it actually wasn't. Right. But yeah, he's trying to be a good guest because he realizes that this is way cheaper than me. Well, now, it's important that you save that money. I'm entertaining the kids. I helped with that Christmas tree. He did. Oh, yeah, that's right. You did all those things. Yeah, it's true. Wow. I should have used to cover my house. I need to save every penny I can, sir.
01:24:18
Speaker
There's a, by the way, there's a $278 round trip fair to Detroit right now for the week, for, for, uh, MLS cup weekend. In case you're curious, uh, you have to fly frontier and sit on the nose. It is a 10 hour trip. Yeah. Yeah. There's a six hour layover. Oh no. That's about right. Yeah, it is. Right. Um, anyway.
01:24:45
Speaker
Okay, wrapping it up, here's a question for Richard from Susie Rants. Which two dogs are Richard's favorite dogs in the world? Yeah, no, this is a good question because a lot of people have pairs of dogs that they think are cute. But if you really want to know which dogs are the cutest, my friends, Susie and Lee, have two dogs named Sam and Riley, who really objectively
01:25:09
Speaker
Like I think if there was like a Mohs scale of cuteness, they would be the diamond on it. They're the cutest dogs in the world. So it's a really good question because I just think, don't think we really talk about dogs on Twitter and the internet enough. No dogs, Twitter and the internet. Yeah. Don't go together very well. Susie has two adorable, adorable dogs who are very peculiar. And they're all cuter for being peculiar. All right. Is that it? That's it.
01:25:36
Speaker
That's it. Thanks for your questions, everybody. Yeah. Thanks to linkedin.com, backslash in, backslash Richard, hyphen Farley, hyphen 2051934 for joining us. We're still doing this? Yeah, we're still doing that. OK. You know, thanks to our sponsors, Bulbul Wines, Queen Anna Acupuncture, Verity Credit Union, Designers Marble. Of course, our broadcast partner, Boot Shepherd Studios,
01:26:05
Speaker
I am Jeremiah Shan, signing off on behalf of Aaron Campo and Lick It. This is No Sadietes, and remember, you'll never be out alone.
01:26:29
Speaker
Roll on, Columbia Roll on. Roll on, Columbia Roll on. Your power is turning our darkness to dawn. Roll on, Columbia Roll on.
01:27:01
Speaker
We love you. Let's win another one!