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Nos Audietis, Episode 321: Weird season begets weird results
68 Plays5 years ago
There is nothing normal about this season, from the schedule to the congestion to ... the world. So, maybe in that very specific way the fact that the Seattle Sounders suddenly can’t beat the Portland Timbers at home makes ... sense? OK, that’s probably a stretch but neither Jeremiah nor Aaron seem too worried about a deflating loss, assuming it doesn’t snowball into a string of bad results.
This week's music: Perry Como - "Seattle", "RVIVR - "Ocean Song", Woody Guthrie - "Roll On Columbia", "Your Journey Begins" - OurMusicBox (Jay Man) (CC BY 4.0)
Thanks to James Woollard, Sounders Public Address Announcer, for doing our sponsor reads. You can follow him on Twitter at @BritVoxUS - if you’re looking for a British Voice to advertise your business or non-profit, please reach out to him.
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Transcript
Introduction to Full Pool Wines and '36 Bottles of Wine'
00:00:00
Speaker
This episode of No Sadietes is sponsored by Full Pool Wines, a Seattle-based wine seller who recently released their first book, 36 Bottles of Wine. The ethos of the book, a highly curated look at wine categories that provide exceptional value right now, should be familiar to full pool readers. But there's loads of fresh content, and since it's not trying to sell any wine through the book, there's a bit more of a sass factor.
00:00:21
Speaker
And there's food. Lots of it. Fulpul's unique writing style is applied to recipes like leftover Thanksgiving turkey, schmaltz-a-ball soup, and pregnancy nachos. This book can be purchased through Sasquatch Books.
Meet the Hosts: Christian Roldan and Jordan Morris
00:00:32
Speaker
Hey, this is Christian Roldan. And Jordan Morris from the Seattle Sounders Football Club. And you're listening to... There's no study at this. What? Hey, Ocean! Let's go! Jordan Morris getting in behind Florian Youngford. Jordan Morris! Scores!
00:00:50
Speaker
And how's this for a save from Steph and Fry? Here comes Roy Deers from the middle to crowd it to Seattle. What do the Tigers dream of? They take a little Tigers in. It's the Sounders and an S-Com. I feel a lot better than Bob.
00:01:18
Speaker
The bluest skies you've ever seen are in Seattle And the hills, the greenest green in Seattle
00:01:31
Speaker
like a beautiful child growing up. Welcome to another edition of Dos Adietes, sponsored by Fullpool
Episode 321 Launch with Jeremiah Shan and Aaron Kempo
00:01:38
Speaker
Wines. This is episode 321 and we're recording on Wednesday, September 9th, 2020. I am your host, Jeremiah Shan. Joining me as usual is Aaron Kempo and somewhere out there is Likit. So I don't have a proper intro today, Aaron, because
00:01:55
Speaker
I don't know if we need one.
Seattle Sounders Recent Matches Recap
00:01:57
Speaker
It's been a few weeks since we recorded, but the Sounders, as so often happens, are, I guess this is MLS, so we should never expect a team to just roll on through. But the last time we were here, I think, the Sounders were coming off a pretty great win over the Timbers. And then they followed that up with a pretty great win over LAFC.
00:02:20
Speaker
And then they had a little bit of a downer performance against RSL where they gave up a late goal, but I was ultimately encouraged by that one. And then somehow they
00:02:31
Speaker
They lost to Timbers at home for the third straight time. Six straight times the road team has won in this rivalry is the most bizarre thing I've seen. I don't have a good explanation for it, but here we are. The Sounders are doing fine. They're not, I won't say this is like panic time by any stretch of the imagination, but they're playing the earthquakes tomorrow. By the time you listen to this, maybe they'll have already played.
00:03:00
Speaker
But I don't know, what do you make of this weird condensed season that we are now, I don't know, nine games into?
Challenges of the Condensed MLS Season
00:03:10
Speaker
It's very strange. I mean, the reason we didn't record before the last Timbers game is because I just straight up forgot that we played at RSL. I finished making dinner and sat down to eat and grabbed my phone because I can't do anything without looking at a screen. And I was like, oh, shit.
00:03:29
Speaker
I completely forgot about this. And the sounders, I guess, forgot there was a game on Sunday. So it's not like I was the only one. It is so hard, man, to...
00:03:42
Speaker
to have any concrete takeaways from any of these games because as good as they look at times, as good as they looked against Portland in Portland and against LAFC, they just have games where they just do not look like the same team at all. And then I think the game against Portland was one of those. And I think it's foolish not to think that the condensed schedule, all the travel has an impact on it. I think that, you know,
00:04:10
Speaker
it has to. And I don't feel like it's one of those things that affects everyone the same. I think that sometimes teams are just going to be at a bigger disadvantage than others based on the travel they've had to do.
Impact of COVID-19 on Sports and Atmosphere
00:04:24
Speaker
And I think expecting anyone
00:04:27
Speaker
doing any job in the United States in 2020, whether it's working at a grocery store, doing whatever boring computer stuff I do, or playing professional soccer, to be on 100% of the time. It's just very weird times that we're living in. It's very bizarre that there's sports happening at all. I've softened on my stance of thinking that this is clearly a bad idea. I think that it's being done in a reasonably safe way.
00:04:58
Speaker
But it's weird that it's happening, and it's weird that it's happening without fans. I would imagine, especially in a game against your rival, where the crowd atmosphere is such a huge part of it, to play at home without that has got to be surreal, to an extent that it probably isn't on the road. And then beyond all the weird COVID stuff, I think that
Evaluating Sounders' Performance
00:05:23
Speaker
just sort of the way these teams are built and the way that Portland Sounders games tend to go, kind of gives the road teams a little bit of an advantage in a weird way, just from the way the games tend to play out. So I think it's a combination of things. I think the Sounders are clearly one of the best teams in MLS, just based on talent, you know, up and down the squad, based on coaching, based on everything tangible.
00:05:52
Speaker
I can't fault anyone for this team and how good they are. I think in a normal season, they would clearly be at the very top of the Western Conference, probably in a supporter shield mix. They'd be right there with the best teams, but this isn't a normal season. And I just like, it feels almost like a cop-out, but I think trying to analyze a game like this is just,
00:06:19
Speaker
kind of pointless. I mean, I guess I'm talking myself out of a job, but like, they just didn't look ready to play. Yeah. And, and, and kind of in the same way that like, Portland didn't look ready to play the last time that they faced off it just, and I don't mean that in a they were unprepared sort of way, I just they just did not look like themselves. And Portland was able to take advantage of that. And it was still a pretty entertaining game, you know, I felt and
00:06:47
Speaker
Certainly the Sounders, there was not any quit in them, but it just wasn't their night. And it's hard to say they need to do XYZ better because in most other games, they've done all those things perfectly well. Well, yeah, I mean, I wrote about this today or this week in my column, but you're inclined to look at this game and you go like, oh, man, they let Portland get in behind too many times.
00:07:14
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, they did. And that's clearly something they need to do better. But they've got the third best defense in the league by any metric, whether it's XG or just straight up goals allowed. Well, they got to be faster on offense. They got to be creating better chances. Well, yeah, they didn't do that very well in the Portland game. But is it a systemic problem? They're third in the league in scoring.
00:07:41
Speaker
and they're leading I mean they're leading their second in the league in expected goal difference their third in the league in actual goal difference I mean there's just not a lot of
00:07:53
Speaker
systemic problems going on here and so it's it's hard to like get too frustrated with like that performance was not great but like how big of a deal is it beyond that I don't I don't know I don't know and I guess we'll know more after San Jose but I do think it's really hard and that's what's so tough about the season is just so hard to get a handle on
Debate on Christian Roldan's Position Change
00:08:17
Speaker
how much of this is the circumstance and how much of it is actual problems that are going on with the team. But one area that I am curious about, because I feel like it's something that is maybe one of these tweaks that might need to be done, but Christian Roldan, I was really bullish on his potential to be effective
00:08:41
Speaker
wide midfielder and not just because he produces huge numbers. I mean, I think if he had gone, if he goes with seven goals and five assists, I think we'd probably consider that a pretty solid season. He's not on pace for that right now, but the reason he's really there is to provide a kind of a level of balance to that attack where there's a more honest kind of player that's in that attacking band.
00:09:06
Speaker
And he's done that, I suppose, but he hasn't really generated enough offense to justify that presence, I think, because he's still got to be a good offensive player, even if he's there mainly to balance it out. And one idea I think might be worth a try is playing Joe Apollo there and putting him back, putting rolled on back as a defensive midfielder, at least while, well, not even, I guess that's even after Gustav Svensson gets back, but
00:09:36
Speaker
Am I overreacting to it? Is Roldan been good enough? I mean, it should be said that he set up what was the highest opportunity chance the Sounders had. He made a great play to set up Miguel Obara, who, man, his finishing boots are not on right now, that is for sure. I think that, I don't know that I think that Joao Pahla moving to that spot is the solution.
00:10:04
Speaker
And I don't, I don't even know that, that I feel like there's a problem, but I do think that the sounders are much different in, I think Joao Paulo just changes the way they play so much because they've traditionally been a team when Rolldown was playing in a West position where they had two
00:10:21
Speaker
Um, either two sixes or a six and a, and a fairly defensive minded eight. Um, and, and so roll down was doing a lot of possession type work. Um, you know, and, and they, uh, Ledero had sort of like that free reign as an attacker, um, as sort of a playmaker, Jordan Morris and, and Raul Rodriguez, obviously her forwards. Um, and he was sort of in a box to box role. Like he was, he was playing that role that wide. Um, and, and they don't need that.
00:10:51
Speaker
I don't feel like I feel like they need a more traditional winger that plays not necessarily the same as Jordan Morris because like he's obviously not that player that player is not on the roster there's only one Jordan Morris in the league but you know somebody that's going to play more of a purely attacking role like in a 4-3-3 type formation I think that that's what they need out of that spot
00:11:17
Speaker
I don't get the sense that that's what they're asking Christian Haldan to do, so I don't want to say that he's incapable of doing it. But I do think that sort of explains the difference between what we've seen from him in the past and that role and what we've seen from him now. He's just the things that he excelled at doing as a wide player in the past are things that are kind of being handled in other areas of the pitch. It's just not as necessary.
Player Roles and Sounders' Strategy Analysis
00:11:44
Speaker
there's not a need to be as sort of unbalanced to the left as they have been in the past. I think Brad Smith leaving is also another thing that's kind of changed that. They need some more attacking presence on the wing and I think that's more noticeable when they're not so overloaded on the left-hand side. So I'd like to see
00:12:08
Speaker
assuming that they're not asking him to do those things in play is more of a pure attacker, I'd like to see that before I say it's not going to work with him out there. I mean, clearly it's working with him out there, right? But it's just, I mean, they did beat the snot out of Portland in LA, you know, two weeks ago. So it's, I don't want to make it sound too dramatic, but I do think, you know, maybe that's a positional switch they can make or something they could target for an upgrade.
00:12:36
Speaker
in the transfer market, you know, if it's not working out. It gets tricky because he's not going to, you know, send Svensson to the bench. He's not going to send Joao Paulo to the bench. And he's certainly not a player that you want to see on the bench. So I don't know how that looks. Maybe they have to just change the way they're playing. And maybe, right, maybe they do, you know, try to Joao Paulo out there. But I do think that it's, I don't think you're crazy. I think it's worth thinking about.
00:13:02
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's an interesting thing I hadn't really considered that part of what necessitated a Christian Roldan before was how left side heavy they were.
00:13:16
Speaker
Previously and that's just not so much of an issue anymore It's you know Jordan Morris as good of an attacker is he's still an honest defender like he's not he's not like effectively playing as a forward the way that you know, maybe a Victor Rodriguez or I mean, I guess the other part of that equation like you said is Brad Smith and and Jovan Jones is not is not doing a Brad Smith impression He is if anything, I think
00:13:45
Speaker
more conservative than i would have expected like jovan jones is not getting caught out of position in ways that i would have kind of expected him to what's what's frustrating i think about jovan jones play this year actually has been that he can show in moments like he's
00:14:03
Speaker
really capable of impressive play when he decides that's what he's going to do. But he's actually been a much more conservative left back than I would have ever thought that he was going to be.
00:14:16
Speaker
Yeah, I've noticed that as well. And it's frustrating because he will still put in at least one or two balls a game that are just jaw-droppingly good. But he's playing much more new than you would have expected him to play. And I think maybe part of that is just Brad Smith changed the perception of what a left-back should be doing in this team so much. But we saw him play for, what, two and a half years before Brad Smith got here.
00:14:45
Speaker
we know what he plays like and he does seem much more conservative than he used to. It's interesting. I mean, it could be that he's just aware that he's aged a little bit and doesn't have the recovery speed to use to, I don't know.
00:14:59
Speaker
Yeah, I don't have a good answer there, but I would like to see maybe a little bit more aggressiveness out of Jobin Jones. And if it is an issue where he just needs to conserve his energy more, I wouldn't mind seeing New Who get, it become more of a true platoon. And I don't know, maybe that's what the plan is. I mean, I think the other thing that's funny to think about is that Paper says the Sounders are nine games into their season.
00:15:25
Speaker
The reality is that they're really, we only have four useful games of sample, like really think about it. And that's not just because that's how many games that Nico and Xiaopalo have been able to play together. It's that.
00:15:41
Speaker
there was two significant breaks in this season. And, and we're just really still starting this, like the big portion of the season is still very early. Like in another month, we're going to have a much better idea of what this team strengths and how good they are and everything else. But it, you know, it's, it's just like, you kind of have to switch your brain off that it's like, we're not really assessing this team on nine games or 10 games worth of
00:16:08
Speaker
play for really assessing them on a much smaller sample and a sample that's been really condensed. I mean it was just three weeks ago that the sounders opened the
00:16:20
Speaker
you know, when we last recorded was right after they played their first game of this restarted season. And that was, you know, that was three weeks ago, three or four weeks ago. And, you know, it's like things are moving very quickly as they're also moving very slowly in a way. So that sort of sums up this whole six months period, I would say.
Scheduling Uncertainties Due to COVID-19
00:16:42
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I would say that that's fair.
00:16:47
Speaker
And what's really, the other thing that's kind of funny about this is we still don't know what the rest of the season's going to look like. Yesterday, Garth Loggerway was on KJR and he was saying like, well, we're supposed to have a call at the league on Thursday, on Wednesday, and we're going to find out more about
00:17:06
Speaker
Hopefully what the season the rest of the season looks like well the Sounders have only one game left on their schedule currently Like they're they're playing the earthquakes on Thursday and then nothing else is scheduled We don't know when they're gonna replay the game against the galaxy that got postponed And we certainly don't know what's gonna happen to the 12 additional games that they still have to play We have heard that
00:17:30
Speaker
it looks like it's gonna be all in conference and it may be even all like West Coast teams. And so that's gonna be interesting. We may not have seen the end of the last of the timbers this year, even though we've already played them twice. We'll certainly be playing, we probably have at least two games against the Galaxy left. We have probably at least one game against LAFC.
00:17:56
Speaker
assuming we will play Vancouver at least once or twice but this is such a weird season and I don't know what to like it's hard to know what to think about anything going forward and I mean this is just soccer we're talking here it's not even getting it like I think we can finally move past like you alluded to that you know we are seeing um
Safety in MLS Games During the Pandemic
00:18:25
Speaker
We are seeing that the league can play safely and that's encouraging. We haven't seen big outbreaks among teams. We haven't seen, we haven't at least heard of outbreaks tied to the handful of teams that are insisting on playing in front of crowds.
00:18:44
Speaker
But those crowds are small enough that it's probably reasonably safe to be doing that. But just from a purely on field perspective, it's still so hard to know what to make of everything.
00:18:57
Speaker
Yeah. And I think too, like part of it with just sort of accepting that, you know, the games are going to happen and it's going to be reasonably safe is that I think we just sort of as a country and society decided that we're not going to do what we probably should do about it. Right. That ship sailed so long ago. And so it's like, do I think this is the best idea? No, not really. But
00:19:22
Speaker
I mean, in terms of the bad ideas in motion right now, it's extremely far down the list. And so, you know, I think it's probably time to move on from that as a topic of discussion, but to think that it doesn't affect the players and the games in any meaningful way, I think is crazy. I mean, I think that it has too. So it's just,
The Unique 2020 Season: Fan and Player Engagement
00:19:44
Speaker
it's weird. And I think like this season is, I'm thankful for the distraction
00:19:48
Speaker
And of course, I want the Sounders to win every game and I hope that they end up winning in last cup if that happens. But it's just, it's just different. And it's just the level of investment, the kind of investment is just very different.
00:20:03
Speaker
You know, hopefully we never have anything else like this again. Like, I'm going to enjoy this season as much as I can, but I don't ever want to repeat it for, I think, or what are fairly obvious reasons. And I'm sure the players, you know, would probably agree with me. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to, I'm going to agree with you there. Well, this is a good place to call it a segment. We're going to come back, take a bunch of your questions. You're listening to no idea this.
00:20:32
Speaker
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00:20:52
Speaker
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Full Pull Wines Sponsorship
00:21:03
Speaker
If you're interested in joining their mailing list or learning more about them, visit fullpaulwines.com.
00:21:12
Speaker
Welcome back to Nos Adietes. So we have some good questions here.
Future Matches Against Timbers and LAFC: Speculation
00:21:18
Speaker
Likit is not with us at the moment. So we're going to do the trade-off thing. And I'm going to get us started. This one's from Michael Leeper. How many more times are we going to play the Timbers in LAFC this season? A lot, I think. I think towards the end of the last segment, we kind of alluded to that. But nobody knows for sure.
00:21:42
Speaker
I wouldn't be shocked if we played the tempers another two times. I wouldn't be shocked if we played LAFC another two times. We'll probably play them in the playoffs as well. So, you know, get used to it. Good times. Good times. Yeah, I mean, I don't know what they have decided about, like, officially awarding the supporter shield, but it is technically
00:22:07
Speaker
the supporters council, the independent supporter council, I believe is the organization that gives it out. And I would like to think that they maybe won't award it this year because it's as taint as it normally is, it seems absurd to award that this year. And MLS is still gonna, I would presume to, I assume they'll still give out like the CCL spot that would go with it, all that kind of stuff. But like, we don't need to do a supporter show this year.
00:22:36
Speaker
No, and I think like, uh, please don't get mad at me if I'm wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure that timbers army has a lot of weight on the supporters council. Yeah. And they were, they were pretty adamant that we shouldn't or Cascadia come this year. I know it's a different kind of thing, but I feel like it's not that different. It's coming from the same, like the logic is the same, right? So yeah, I agree.
00:23:01
Speaker
I'm hoping it right as well. Of course, if the Sounders win it, I'm going to totally say that we're the supporters of the champions. Yeah, well, of course. Yeah, I mean, that's, you've got to. Right.
Potential Rule Changes in MLS Post-Pandemic
00:23:14
Speaker
So the next one is from, this is quite a Twitter handle, d.leascim.
00:23:23
Speaker
Oh, it's Michael Dodd backwards. Okay. Oh, I feel like a less of an asshole now then Should MLS retain any of the altered rules due to the shortened season? For example bigger bench five subs, etc You know, I I I don't mind any of these changes. I think that like
00:23:44
Speaker
I think they're really useful now, but I think especially in MLS where fatigue is a pretty significant issue and long travel times are an issue and fixture congestion is more of an issue because of all the other stuff. I like these changes. I think these are good changes, especially if they become something like the world standard. I know that every league in Europe is not
00:24:14
Speaker
having universal adoption of these rules uh coming into this new season but if it's being used anywhere i don't like i'm i'm comfortable with mls like i don't think i would like it if mls was the only league in the world doing this but if they've got company in germany or spain or whatever like i like i like these changes i i think it it helps the game i agree um i i think the caveat is that i know that with the premier league
00:24:43
Speaker
Um, the, the argument against them is that it gives the big clubs an even bigger advantage because, you know, they have much deeper benches. Um, you know, a lot of like, if you're playing Manchester city, a lot of the guys on their bench would be the best player that's ever played for your club. So, um, so that's the argument against it. I happened to agree with it in that context.
00:25:04
Speaker
probably for reasons people that know which Premier League team I am a fan of can figure out. But I think that that's a reasonable argument. Travel in the UK is also obviously a much
00:25:17
Speaker
of the season. So, um, I think that that's reasonable, but I think in a league like MLS where parody is so, you know, strictly enforced. And when there is so much travel, um, I don't, I don't see a good reason not to, not to keep them. I think, I think you're right. I think it does help things. Um, I think that if you care about youth development, it's a, it's a great way to make sure that you're doing more playing time. Um, I think that, you know, it's, it's like, uh, teams are going to maybe hang on to older players a little bit longer.
Debate on MLS Spending Levels
00:25:46
Speaker
So.
00:25:47
Speaker
Maybe Messi can play until he's 45 or whatever if he only has to play 45 minutes a night. So that's not an actual argument, by the way. But yeah, I like both of those changes. And I'd be happy to see him stick. And I think even if MLS is the only league doing five subs, I think I'm still OK with it. Because I think MLS has some unique challenges. Yeah, exactly.
00:26:12
Speaker
Yeah, I'm comfortable with it. That's for sure. So this is from A. Unbahan. I don't know. We've got a lot of tough ones to pronounce today. Based on the last couple matches, MLS's back is Svensson our current Aussie, i.e. does Svensson's play and availability predict our outcomes more than any other player, or has it just been coincidence?
00:26:39
Speaker
I think that, I've been thinking about this question actually for a while today. I think it's a good question and I think there are a couple different things that could be at play. I think that Ozzie and Svensson, they're not necessarily similar players in a lot of ways, but they do serve a very similar purpose in the sounders system, which is defensively obviously just sort of to break up play and sort of
00:27:07
Speaker
you know, organize the defense in midfield and just prevent counterattacks, yada yada, right? Traditional number six stuff. And then also,
00:27:17
Speaker
sort of to function as the, um, the metronome for, for the attack and, and for the passing and dictate tempo and things like that. Traditionally, that's something you see more from an eight, right? Like the six is, there's a more truly defensive player. The eight is the more, um, the player, a little bit more responsible for, for passing and tempo and things like that. Um, but I think that teams that are very tempo dependent and I would put the sounders in that category. Um, I think that there.
00:27:45
Speaker
They're definitely a team that, when things get too frantic, can tend to get ripped apart pretty easily. When things are slow, they don't tend to create a lot of chances. So I think missing that sort of metronomic player in midfield can cause problems for them, more than maybe they do for other teams. The simpler explanation is obviously just that Ozzy, when he was a sounder, was a great player, who saw Vincent as a great player,
00:28:13
Speaker
Yeah, not easily replaced, but I do think there's something to the idea that the specific role they serve having to take a hit there affects the sounders more than it would some other teams. Yeah, and I think the other thing that at least does
00:28:30
Speaker
explains it to a certain degree is that like Aussie, especially early on, Svensson doesn't miss a ton of games and so the sample is just not that big, at least in the last two years, it's not that big. The gap, it should be said a gap of performance is not as wide as it was with Aussie, like with Aussie I think the sounders had gone something like
00:28:55
Speaker
I had some crazy record with and without him, and it's not as extreme with Svensson, but I just kind of went through his game log. They've definitely got a better record with him than without him, but it's not like they literally can't win without him. In fact, this year, just looking at this year,
00:29:19
Speaker
They're one, one, and one without him, which is not to say that that's a great record or anything, but it's not.
00:29:28
Speaker
It's not disaster city. But yeah, I mean, he's a good player and he certainly provides something that, you know, like you look at who they replaced him with this week. And it was Jordy Delam who is, I think, a really useful, good player, but he's a much more limited player. Like, he does some of the defensive stuff that Svensson does, but he does none of the offensive stuff. Like, he's just not a metronomic player. He's really just a defensive midfielder.
00:29:58
Speaker
Yeah, I think that that's that's definitely true. And I think that when you have somebody like Shua Paulo, who is a much more creative midfielder, and is going to be looking to start attacks rather than to just sort of dictate pace.
00:30:15
Speaker
That's that's a great point. So next one is from an easy easier to pronounce 180 206. What can a bar do to turn it around this year. It seems like he slipped a significant distance behind Bruin and Wanna as an effective option off the bench. Yeah, you know, he played for the first time in since since them was his back on.
00:30:38
Speaker
on Sunday and he did what he does, what he's been doing, which is to get into dangerous positions and then not finish.
00:30:54
Speaker
I think it's valuable to have a player like him who can come in off the bench and get into dangerous positions. But, you know, I guess he's just got to keep working on his finishing. It wasn't like it was the easiest finish that he missed against the Timbers, but what was alarming was how not close to goal it was. Yeah. Yeah. It was not a moment.
00:31:21
Speaker
where he covered himself from Glory for sure. But I do, I think that, I like Miguel La Barra, I think he's a good player, I think he was the right kind of sign in for the sounders to make for that role, but I take the fact that Buana has gone ahead of him to be a positive thing, because I think if it was the same Buana we had seen
00:31:42
Speaker
you know, sort of in the middle of last season, getting those minutes over Obara. I think maybe that's a reason to be more focused more on being critical of Obara, but it's not. I mean, I think he's had Wallach-Wanna's clearly taken a big step forward, which is great. I mean, I would much rather be giving him Wallach-Wanna those minutes than Miguel Obara. The minutes that Miguel Obara is giving, I would like him to finish. So, you know, I think that that's good. But I think if you do want to focus on the positive, it's that, you know, this young homegrown player,
00:32:12
Speaker
seems to have established himself as a rotational option on the team and taken a big step forward. And then obviously, I mean, Miguel Abara is not going to take a ton of Wilbrun's
00:32:25
Speaker
that's pretty good. And I'll also add about Ibora is that it's like Ibora should not be making or breaking the sounder season like he's uh whatever he gives the sounders it should be a bonus um you know I don't think they signed him with the idea that it's like well now we don't have to go out and get a
00:32:42
Speaker
proven starting caliber winger. Like he was clearly a veteran, a freely available veteran that they could get for virtually nothing. Yeah. I mean, he was basically a preemptive Harrieship replacement before we knew that Harrieship needed to be replaced. Yeah. So the next one is from Peter Johnson at 23 squared. Tenorio and I always screw up this guy. Stay School. Tenorio and Stay School called out Adrian Hannah, who is one of the owners holding back MLS
00:33:13
Speaker
back from becoming
Adrian Hanauer's Influence on MLS
00:33:14
Speaker
a big league. They cite and seat on the conservative product strategy committee and unwillingness to spend, and then apparently that discussion was on Total Soccer Show 392. Does our front office hurt MLS's growth to help stingy owners? So I went back, I was unaware of this particular episode of
00:33:39
Speaker
of the allocation disorder, which I actually think is a pretty good show if you're an MLS wonk like me, but I hadn't listened to this episode and I went through it and it should be said, they didn't quite call out Adrian Hanauer as directly as this question implies. They mentioned that Hanauer is one of the key members of the product and strategy committee, which is another name for the competition committee, and they mentioned
00:34:07
Speaker
like an anecdote where some owner was talking about how, is it fair if Adrian Hanauer loses so much money during COVID that he would have to sell because he's such a, you know, like, is it fair for Adrian Hanauer to have to sell because of what's going on in the world, which didn't happen.
00:34:28
Speaker
And from everything I can tell Adrian Hanauer is not feeling like he's in a position where he has to sell. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think he is. I do think it's probably accurate to say that he is one of the least rich owners in MLS from an individual net worth perspective. And I think it's clearly true that he is on the product strategy committee. And I think he's probably a,
00:34:58
Speaker
advocate for the slow growth nature and the and I think he prizes
00:35:11
Speaker
Parity in the league. I don't know that he's necessarily holding the league back I think he actually is doing a lot to strengthen the the league I don't think he's someone who's like pinching pennies at every Turn and holding the league back in the way that you know, um, a stan kronky might be doing it But he's also wants to be I think he wants to make smart investments but yeah, I mean I think that there's a I think
00:35:39
Speaker
I'll say this for sure. I think there's a lot of owners who are fans of Adrian Hanauer and MLS. I don't think Adrian is necessarily pushing the league forward the way that Sam and Paul might be wanting them to, but I think that
00:36:01
Speaker
You know, he's probably on the conservative side. I don't, and I, but I don't, I don't necessarily think that he's, I don't think he's holding the league back. I don't, we kind of had a discussion about this off the air a little bit. I think the idea that MLS could just tomorrow pull the, you know, anyone can, like all these teams can spend whatever they want. I don't know how many teams are actually going to do that. And I don't know how many teams are actually gonna.
00:36:25
Speaker
be better, like how much better product we end up with as a league. Right. I think that there are these discussions that are sort of treated like the same discussion or argument that are really sort of different perspectives. And I think that there are, like you said, like there are the Krunkies, there are the Hunts, there
00:36:46
Speaker
whoever, whatever, you know, loser owns Houston, that have a vested interest in keeping MLS cheap and keeping themselves
00:37:01
Speaker
competitive, right? Like they want everybody to spend the same piddly ass amount of money that they spend on their teams. And those guys, like they're definitely holding the league back, but I don't think that they're the problem that people, they're definitely not the problem they were like five or six years ago, let alone 10 years ago, right? And then there are teams that want you to think that they would spend $500 million a year on their rosters if they could, but they just, darn it,
00:37:31
Speaker
Darn it, they just can't, right? And there's no way that they would be doing that. And then there's a lot of shades of gray in the middle of that, right? And I think that Adrian Hanauer is probably more conservative than I would like to see from an MLS owner, especially an MLS owner of a club as big as the Sounders, as successful as the Sounders. And I think that to some extent, the fact that he probably couldn't
00:38:00
Speaker
keep up spending wise with some of the richer ownership groups if the reins were loosened has to play into that and he doesn't want to sell the team. And I think that that's probably a factor to some extent, but I also just think that.
00:38:13
Speaker
It is okay to think that teams that are willing to spend a reasonable amount of money should be able to compete, that we shouldn't have runaway spending on players like we do in some other leagues, that that's good for the product. Whether you think it's good from a labor perspective is a different discussion, obviously.
00:38:34
Speaker
which you can probably guess where I land there, but I mean, it's a reasonable position, right? That teams should be able to be competitive if they're willing to spend. And setting that, it's reasonable to expect owners to spend at, well, how do we run a sustainable business in this league, right? Like if you are willing to,
00:38:59
Speaker
actually make investments in players to see returns, then you should be able to compete without being totally blown away spending wise. And I think that's a reasonable position. And I also think the idea that there are teams out there that are willing to break the bank on every signing is crazy. I don't, it's not, I mean, if we completely open up the checkbooks, we're not gonna see players like,
00:39:27
Speaker
Raul Maria is coming into the league, most likely, because teams are going to spread that spending out a little bit more domestic players are going to start making more money which I think is a good outcome but it's not going to make the league that much better. And we're just not going to have the kinds of superstars that we have in the league now because teams are going to spend that money on wages and more reasonable transfer fees spread throughout the league now maybe that's a better thing.
00:39:50
Speaker
Maybe that makes for a better product. But I think the idea that, you know, teams like the Sounders are going to roll out a team of 11 Ledero, Rudyas, caliber players are a pipe dream. Yeah, I think that that's true. And I'll add that I think Hanauer is spending, I think Hanauer has shown a willingness to spend
00:40:14
Speaker
on the, you know, they're spending money smartly, I think, and they're not spending money in a crazy way. But like, I have a hard time criticizing the way that they're spending their money. Now, is he keeping, and I think it's probably in Hanauer's best interest that the league not grow beyond his capacity. Like, but I don't necessarily think that he would stand in the way of it either if he thought,
00:40:40
Speaker
There was a big payday. The thing is, if it was just about money, Hanauer could have cashed out of the sounders and walked away with a pretty nice profit on his initial investment.
00:40:54
Speaker
But I don't know. It'll be interesting. I think that there is coming a time. I think we're getting close to a time when the Sounders are going to have to spend some real money. You know, we've been talking about this training facility that they've been hinting at for well over a year. We still haven't gotten any details on it. You know, there's this soccer stadium in Tacoma that's still
00:41:16
Speaker
in the works. At some point, CenturyLink Field is probably going to need some real investment, especially if Seattle is hoping to host the World Cup in 2026. So there's some big expenses that I think Hanauer is preparing himself to have to spend money on.
00:41:39
Speaker
And I think that MLS is still a league where it, like part of their slow growth, I think is also the idea that a lot of money is being put into infrastructure. And if you look at the infrastructure on the league, it's pretty good for the standard, like compared to what they're spending on wages, they're spending a lot on infrastructure. And I think that's setting them up probably for down the road, being able to spend more on.
00:42:04
Speaker
on wages and transfer fees and labor in general. But it will be, I mean, I think it's an interesting thing. I think it's a fair criticism. I think that, you know, like Hanauer is not someone who is arguing to take all the guardrails off the league, that's for sure. Whether or not that's good or not, the league is something I think reasonable minds can disagree on. But it's a fair criticism to say that he's probably someone who is
00:42:34
Speaker
working to keep the system exploitable, for lack of a better term. I think the system is set up in a way where smart people can take advantage of it, and I think that's probably where he wants it. This is another one from 80206. He says, how impressed are you with the steps Alex Roldon has taken forward this year? What's his ceiling on this team?
00:43:00
Speaker
Uh, he has, he's definitely taken a step forward. I think he looks like a pretty capable MLS rotational player. Um, I think his ceiling on the team is about where it is right now. Um, and I think that's, that's pretty good. I mean, he's all the MLS backup. Yeah, I think that's good. I think that, I think it's possible. Um, he could be sort of a rotational starter, um, on, on a different team, you know, maybe a year or two down the line. So, um, I think, and I like.
00:43:29
Speaker
I really like Alex Roldon. He was not good his first couple years. He was a bad player, and I did not think he was going to have a career. He has gotten, I think, improved dramatically over the past year or two. He looks like a very capable MLS player that can have a pretty decent career.
00:43:53
Speaker
That's the kind of growth that you want to see. Like you want to see your club developing players that much, especially he was drafted as a, you know, in his athletic prime. Um, it's not like he was a 16 year old kid coming into the team. So, um, that's, that's impressive growth. Uh, good work by both him and the club. Um, and I, you know, I think that he could, he could be around for a little while contributing, um, to a few different roles. Um,
00:44:19
Speaker
having that kind of skill set, that kind of flexibility is very valuable in a league like this, where you can fill it. I mean, it's very valuable anywhere, but I think especially in MLS where you can competently play three or four positions is a super valuable thing. And he's developed the traps to be able to do that. So yeah, big, big step forward. And I'm happy to see him getting minutes this year and continuing to improve.
Alex Roldan's Potential and Position Fit
00:44:44
Speaker
I think his ceiling might be MLS starter. I don't know that his ceiling is MLS starter on an MLS cup contender. But it wouldn't be the craziest thing to see him. This is a relatively new position for him. And I could see his growth curve being pretty dramatic. I'm not predicting that necessarily. But I was really encouraged by the way he played against RSL. I think he has.
00:45:10
Speaker
some of the tougher like I'm a little surprised actually that they hadn't tried moving him to right back before because he you see him play there and it's like oh you know this is actually suits him well like he is a player who's capable of pressing and pressuring and uh
00:45:27
Speaker
You know doing some of the things you want a right back to do on the defensive side while also putting in like a pretty solid cross and But he's not necessarily a scorer and he's not someone who is gonna tear it up in the middle of the park But if you put them out on the you know, you know because when you know I think the complaint always was that when he was getting minutes before it was like as a defensive minded right midfielder and it was seemingly always when they were
00:45:55
Speaker
He wasn't playing conservative anyway, and he wasn't doing anything that he was just like kind of bringing down the attack. Right. Yeah. Next one is from Emma O'Connell. Should I to another world on central question should I just stop imagining Christian hold on as a long term number six solution.
00:46:15
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I don't know. That's a fair question. I think a lot of us have held out some hope that that's gonna happen, but the sounders don't really seem inclined to...
00:46:26
Speaker
to play him there. But I think right now, at least part of that is by putting him at that number, like he isn't, he is a capable offensive player. You know, he's averaged, you know, basically five goals and three or four assists a year for the last four years. And if you put him in it and you drop him back to more of a classic six,
00:46:50
Speaker
He's not going to be scoring nearly as many goals. Most of his goals aren't like long. He has a couple nice long range goals, but most of his goals are like opportunistic strikes in the box type of thing.
00:47:03
Speaker
I think you're pulling him farther away from the goal. And so he's not necessarily going to be as offensive minded. And so maybe that's why they aren't playing him as a six right now. And maybe he's a player who drops farther back as he ages. So I don't know. I don't think it's you don't necessarily want to give up on him as a six, but I don't think the Sounders are going to be playing him as a six in the next.
00:47:25
Speaker
you know, near term future. Yeah, I would also say that it's tougher to find somebody that can do all the things Christian old non does very well than it is to find a good number six.
00:47:37
Speaker
Fair enough. Yeah. So I think, I mean, it's like, obviously it's when you picture somebody as elite out of position, it's tough to shake that. And I was kind of the same way. Like I thought he was going to be Aussie Mark two, um, for the first couple of years of his career. But I think that what he, what he's developed into is significantly more valuable and in order to find.
00:47:58
Speaker
All right, this one's from Jeffrey M. Williams. Any rumors of new signings, if you could make any additions right now, what would you say is our position of greatest need? I have not seen any rumors. And I think that the world, just the transfer market in general right now is extremely bizarre. All the major windows in Europe are open until October, I believe. That's going to make it, I think, very, very tough for MLS teams to do business.
00:48:30
Speaker
It's a strange, strange season. Maybe there are some crazy bargains that end up kind of falling through the cracks and falling into the laps of teams that are a little more well capitalized than some of the teams in Europe. Who knows? But I haven't heard anything or seen anything, and I think it's going to be a waiting game. But if we could go out and send somebody right now.
00:48:53
Speaker
I think I'm more purely attacking wide player, not a starting caliber player, but somebody that's like at a will-brewing type level, but as a wide midfielder, I think would be very nice to have. Yeah, I think that's the only thing to me that jumps out center back, another center back, I think would be. Yeah, now that I think about it, it would be good to have.
00:49:19
Speaker
Yeah, I think I said, especially if you're looking at kind of a bargain bin type of player, I think center back is the, like a third starting quote, like, you know, like a Kim Ki-hee kind of level center back would be nice. I certainly wouldn't mind bringing in another attacking midfielder type, but if I had to choose one position, I think it's probably another center back. Yeah.
00:49:46
Speaker
And no, I haven't heard any rumors and I don't know how much I think that is probably what the sounders are going to be doing is they're going to be kind of waiting.
00:49:54
Speaker
to see how things shake out and then look for someone on the cheap end. Cause I don't think they're in any position to be paying big transfer fees right now, not because they don't necessarily have the money, but because I think they, I think Logger Way was honest about kind of maxing out their big capital, their big kind of cap space kind of players when they signed EJ Mar and Joe Paulo before the season started.
00:50:26
Speaker
Oh,
DeAndre Yedlin's Possible Return to Sounders
00:50:27
Speaker
it's my turn, isn't it? Yeah, it's your turn. BrianGardner10 asks, with the Andre Yatlin struggling for game time at Newcastle United, what would it take for him to return to the Sounders? Is it realistic? If he hypothetically did return, would you play him instead of Kelvin Lierdom? Yeah, I mean, this is a good question. We were kind of talking about this in the Sounder at Heart Slack room a while back. And it was pointed out that Kelvin Lierdom's stats
00:50:57
Speaker
are like kind of peak DeAndre Yedlin offensively. I'm not convinced that we've seen the best. Like my eye test tells me DeAndre Yedlin is going to be an upgrade over Kelvin Lirdum. Is he going to be enough of an upgrade to justify potentially having to spend close to DP wages on him?
00:51:20
Speaker
I mean, I don't know if you can replace, I think for sure you, you probably have to like, you're not going to have a roster with Kelvin Leardham and D'Andrea Edlin on it. Like that doesn't probably make any sense. And I don't think it's crazy to think that the Sounders might be able to get Yedlin at some point. I don't think that's right now. I think that's probably another year away is my perception. Like I,
00:51:46
Speaker
like one rumor that um got floated around was that yedlin would sign an extension with new castle and then go on loan this year and then play out his final year at new castle i don't quite understand the logic of that move but that was something that was put forward i think in the english press and you know i guess it would allow the sounders to potentially
00:52:15
Speaker
on a somewhat of a discount, but then he'd only be here for a year and really like what's the point of bringing him back just for a year? I don't know if I totally saw the logic from the sounder's perspective in that arrangement, but I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that Yedlin would come back and that he would come back relatively soon. But yeah, I mean, I don't know, I think,
00:52:42
Speaker
I think he's an upgrade over Lyrdom, although I don't know if it's like, I don't think I'm dying to make that move right away. Yeah, I would tend to agree with that. I think, so I think the logic to him going on loan and playing out the next year is that he's blocked right now by a player. I don't remember who it is, but he's blocked right now by a player that.
00:53:04
Speaker
is older, who is going to be the starter this year, the presumed starter, but they like him enough that they would be happy with bringing him back next year. And I think also it's a hedge against the championship, like if they get relegated, which Steve Bruce is a manager, so it's a distinct possibility. I think that
00:53:27
Speaker
He's, he's a great, he's a great championship right back. So I think that that's probably the logic there. I've heard that he's there's solid interest from the sheet tests and from a couple of clubs in France. Um, all of that, which is sort of a long way to say, I don't think that he's going to be interested in coming back to the loss right now. Um, he's, he's 27. Um,
00:53:51
Speaker
he still seems to have that sort of elite level athleticism and as long as he has that he's gotten I think better defensively and as an attacker you know since he's been gone which you would expect right but as long as he has that sort of world-class athleticism
00:54:12
Speaker
He's, he's going to have a place in a top flight league in Europe. And I think it's just the sort of a hard selling point to tell somebody that's still in their athletic prime. That's still capable of, of playing at that level to come back to MLS for the same money that they're making in Europe. It's just, so I don't, he just doesn't fit that profile of a guy. Teams are going to want to spend crazy money for.
00:54:34
Speaker
especially since he's a right back and, you know, not a good enough demonstrated attacking player to use like an attacking DP spot on him. So yeah, he's just in a weird sort of in between spot, I think. So I definitely don't expect him to come back this year or honestly, probably next year, but I think he will eventually, I think he'll end up here most likely. And I think by that time Kelvin will certainly be gone. So, and I think he's going to be,
00:55:03
Speaker
there's no reason to think that he's not going to be an elite MLS level right back for another five or six years. Yeah. And I'll, I think another thing, and this is something that I think is going to become a bigger point of debate.
00:55:21
Speaker
in the coming years is the more Americans that we see playing in Europe, I think there's going to be more pressure for players who fashion themselves as us national team starters to be playing, not just in Europe, like somewhere in Europe, but like on a big team or in a big league.
00:55:46
Speaker
And you know, Reggie Cannon just got announced as moving to Portugal. It's like a mid table team in Portugal that he's moving to. And he's probably the
00:55:59
Speaker
top competition right now, I think for Yedlin as a starter, but like those are the players that he's going to be competing with for starting minutes. I think for the most part at right back for the national team are going to be players that are going to Europe. And I think there's going to be some pressure for him to be competing for minutes at, you know, a Premier League club and, um,
00:56:22
Speaker
And so I think that he's going to want to probably keep his options open as far as that goes. And I think we're going to be hearing a lot about this, even though there is, I think, some thinking that it was like, it's all Jürgen Klenzmann that was pushing this. I think when it comes to, like if the US really has the idea of being a top team,
00:56:49
Speaker
And more than that, as more and more players move to Europe, I think it's going to be kind of like this self-fulfilling prophecy where the more players that go there, the more important it becomes. I think the discussion with when Klensman was around was a much different one because it was like,
00:57:09
Speaker
should these veteran players that are established professionals turn down huge pay raises to keep playing in Europe when they're sort of on the downswing of their careers versus should Weston McKinney stay at FC Dallas or should he go play for Juventus in two years? There's a much more natural move I think that's going on now. Exactly. And I think that's great. If MLS clubs can start
00:57:37
Speaker
selling academy prospects to big European clubs and getting sell-on fees and enticing talent players to come through their academy systems. That's all very, very good. And I'm very happy to see that happening. And then the guys that don't make it in Europe can come play in MLS. That's great. That's the way it is most other places.
00:57:59
Speaker
Yeah, one of these days I want to get into this conversation about Jordan Morris and his chances in Europe, but we don't need to do that right now. So this one's from from Nick areas 24. Besides maybe Christian Roldan, I don't think anyone has the Dempsey hatred for Portland that makes the rivalry so important to them. Would you agree or disagree? And do you think that the passion is something we're lacking against them? I
00:58:31
Speaker
I think that Dempsey's hatred is just of whoever he's playing against at a given time and whoever hates him. I don't know that it was specifically Dempsey just being invested in the rivalry as much as Portland fans hated him so much and he sort of thrived on that.
00:58:53
Speaker
I don't think that's the problem, no. And I think that there is clearly a lot of hatred for the Portland Denver's on this team. Raul Rodriguez seems to love scoring against Portland. I think, I mean, there are some newer players that probably don't quite get the level of the rivalry yet. So maybe that will help as they sort of blood into it.
00:59:23
Speaker
I just, I don't like, we, yeah, it's, it's frustrating to have lost to the timbers three times in a row at home, but we beat them three nil like two weeks ago. I know that's like, and so like, and, and we, you know, we've, we've had some super tense games with them over the last couple of years. I just.
00:59:40
Speaker
I think that the reality is that Portland is consistently very good and they're hard to beat. And the way they play makes them especially dangerous on the road. I think we kind of got used to beating the snot out of them early on, but they've been like consistently pretty good team for like four or five years now, five or six years now, I guess. So yeah, I just think that they're hard to beat. I think it's as simple as that.
01:00:07
Speaker
Yeah, I don't think that our struggles against them have anything to do with not having the passion to beat them because I don't think our struggles are as bad as I think the perception is. But I also think the other part of it is that
01:00:22
Speaker
like Gio Savarisi is a much harder coach to hate than Caleb Porter. And Diego Valeri is a much less hateable player than Will Johnson. And you kind of have this cycle of like, they just don't have players that you, as fans, I think that you hate as much, but also like Brian Schmetzer seems to kind of like Gio Savarisi. He clearly didn't like Caleb Porter. And like when that, and so I think that there is this more outward,
01:00:51
Speaker
like animosity that used to exist and that same outward animosity is not necessarily there. We also play them five times a year. Right. We also play them a lot. So I don't think it's that I think it's a different kind of it's a more purely sports based like rivalry and it's not so much a personality based one and I don't and that's going to ebb and flow. It's also it
01:01:21
Speaker
I almost feel bad saying this, but the fact that their most hateable player keeps injuring themselves in really tragic ways against us, it's like the one guy that I want to hate keeps getting hurt and making me feel bad for him. So it's like, you know, that doesn't help the rivalry either. So the last one is from Emily Cummings. I don't even want to ask this question, but I guess I will. What's going on with Will Bruin and the Bear With Us pod? The people demand more Will.
01:01:51
Speaker
If you've got a zat, you can ask him what's going on. You don't need to talk about it on the show. Yeah, I think, honestly, the big thing is that the schedule got pretty congested. And it's tough to, I think, I'm guessing that it's tough to find time to record.
01:02:15
Speaker
with the way the schedule is right now. It's not dead, I don't think. I suspect we'll have more bear with us podcasts, but yeah. I mean, he can play now. I would imagine that that.
01:02:30
Speaker
factors into the scheduling a bit like because it wasn't the whole thing like he was like i'm really bored can we can we do this i mean that was it didn't start out that way it started out where he actually he was he wasn't hurt yet but we didn't actually record until after you got hurt so i think that was what got him recording on a regular basis i think was probably
01:02:50
Speaker
the injury. But we demand now to be able to enjoy the fruits of all that hard work. So we'll see. Well, that's the show. Thanks for bearing with us. Oh, boy. Yeah, but we'll have some more shows coming up.
01:03:14
Speaker
Yeah, I'll try not to forget about any more games. Yeah, don't do that. It would be easier if we knew when the games were, which we don't. Yeah, it helps with planning. Yeah. We should pass that along. All right, well, thanks to our sponsor at Always Full Pool Wines. I'm Jeremiah O'Shan, signing off on behalf of Aaron and Lickit. This is No Saadietis. Remember, you will never yawn.
01:03:40
Speaker
Green Douglas spur where the water's cut through. Down to wild mountains and tangents you flew. Canadian Northwest to the ocean so blue. It's Roll On, Columbia Roll On. Roll On, Columbia Roll On. Roll On, Columbia Roll On. Your power is turning our darkness to dawn. Roll On, Columbia Roll On.
01:04:17
Speaker
We love you. Let's win another one!