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Succeeding as a New Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Leader with James Cheng
37 Plays2 years ago
This week, for Episode 2/Season 2 of “The 3D Podcast” I sit down with the Global Head of Diversity Equity and Inclusion at Zimmer Biomet, James Cheng. During this interview James shares great insight into what to focus on as you start your new role as a Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion leader, as well as all the steps that you should be looking to take over the first 30, 60, and 90 days on the job. This is a great episode packed with a ton of gems, so get your notepads ready as we dive deep and “Discuss the Dimensions of Diversity”.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to the 3D Podcast
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you
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Hey, I'm Cedric Chambers, and I would like to welcome you to another episode of the 3D Podcast, a masterclass where we share with you everything you need to know about how to transform diversity and inclusion in your organization as well as in your community. We're on a mission to amplify the voices of leaders that are making an impact in the world today so that we can have a better tomorrow.
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Our goal every episode is to keep it simple, honest, and transparent with you by uncovering the truths in diversity and inclusion with the hope of creating behavioral change all while presenting it from a unique perspective.
Guest Introduction: James Chang
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So look, if you're ready, get your notepad out, pour you a drink, and let's dive deep as we discuss the dimensions of diversity.
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Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of the 3D Podcast. Look, today I'm excited as we're speaking to a veteran in the game. Look, someone who's been around the block, has a wealth of knowledge for leaders that are just starting out in their roles and organization, as well as leaders who've just been promoted to senior DE&I roles. So who am I talking about? No other than James Chang.
James Chang's DEI Journey and Lessons Learned
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So to provide a little background on James,
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James is the global head of Diversity Equity Inclusion at Zimmer Biomatt. Prior to Zimmer Biomatt, James has experienced DEI across multiple industries, such as biomedical pharmaceuticals, global commodities, agricultural, electronic retail and services, and now medical technology.
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James is responsible for the strategy, development, and growth of diversity, equity, and inclusion function, and is tasked with driving positive impact for the 23,000 plus team members in 25 countries across the globe. I know I'm excited for the discussion, and I hope you are as well. So without further ado, James Chang. James, how are you doing today? Great. Honored to be here with you. I was looking forward to this day today.
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No, me too, me too. Look, I'm excited for our discussion today. I know there's a wealth of knowledge that we're going to get into for DE&I leaders. So I'm excited to just dive straight into it. And so as leaders and as listeners are listening to the podcast, I want to start off by creating a foundation for them and starting off with your background. And so can you provide just a little bit of an overview of your background?
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your journey to becoming a DEI leader. And I would love to pull out what are some of those lessons learned that you've garnered through the process that's helped you throughout your career? Absolutely. First things first, when it came to being a DEI leader was acknowledge the fact that this is going to be an ongoing journey. You're not going to know it all, nor will you ever be at the point that you will have it all. So that's one thing I had to realize right off the bat would be a forever learner seat.
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And then also in the same time, understand your core value and what your purpose is. That has been kind of my guiding post to this career is that why I entered this and how much it meant to me. And that had to basically be the driving force. And I, and I say this, and this is my personal take that has guided me in this journey, which is I'm not doing it for me. I'm not even just doing it for the people who are around me today.
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I'm looking at it for the next generation who's going to come into our industries and making sure that when my nieces and nephews show up, they have the right place to come into.
James's Unconventional Path to DEI Leadership
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Yeah. I've always heard this saying that the more you know, the less you know you know. And that's what a learning takes place. And that's how we make sure that we continue to sharpen that iron and learn as much as we can and do it from a place where you say a purpose and core values and drive that forward. Absolutely. And I also say this, and this is something that I'm going to
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tell anyone joining this space. Know that this is an ongoing journey that is not gonna be easy. Sometimes you're not even gonna get credit for stuff. A lot of times you don't get credit for that. And doing this work isn't about credit, right? It's about doing the right thing that's gonna be best for the future.
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And knowing that and accepting that upfront, that you're gonna have bad days. And I mean, bad days. And then there's days that are, you're gonna get that one little shining light and you're just like, this is why I'm doing this work. This is why I'm in this fight. And especially in this space.
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That's right. That's where I could have said it better. I know you're leading diversity, equity, inclusion, not as in the environment, but kind of take us through, like, is that where you start in your career? Kind of take us through how you got to this, this role in this position. I actually started in retail in the retail stores at Best Buy. So company wise, and then went through the levels, went to leadership, then went over to corporate, actually went in through IT. So my background is actually more of an IT guy, went through leadership there. And then along the journey.
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I love this work and I believed in this work and still do. And that's what kept me volunteering at times. I joined multiple ERGs. I chaired three of them, three different types at one point. I went to conferences. I invested my personal time outside, not knowing this was a field. And then one day a leader said, why don't you do this for a living? And I'm like,
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That's a thing. I didn't know DEI was a thing or a career, a job open. And I had the opportunity to think about how I can bring quality and competency and unique skills to this space. Because again, I was from the business side. I was from the IT side. So when it comes to bringing things along, I wasn't the traditional HR guy, let alone a DEI guy. I was very much that person that went the untraditional path.
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down this road and that journey led me in Best Buy to diversity and inclusion, helping that organization start up
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or restart up their program.
Integrating DEI Across Business Functions
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And then when I had the opportunity to build and do things, I guess I built a little name for myself. Through that work, I was brought into Cargill, a pretty decent sized organization. That organization's that agriculture, global conglomerate, commodities, and things like that. What people don't realize for that organization, talk about global. 155,000 employees in over 70 plus countries.
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and truly working globally when it comes to an organization. And then from there, again, same thing, opportunity to build, grow, strategize, and ultimately build a legacy for that organization when it came to the work. Actually, after that was pulled into Gilead Sciences, where I decided to stretch
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and wanted to go, not just D&I, but how do I truly bring it down to the ground when we talk about how do we make things happen? What's the practical side? And at that point I decided, how do I bring in talent acquisition as a space for me to also impact both in the same time? So owning that part as well was kind of unique because then I had to understand where recruiters, sorcerers, how hiring managers deal with this.
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How do I work with my HR PPs differently? When I'm talking about, let's talk about tactics. How do we talk about ways that we're going to be able to deliver? And then now at Zimba Biomat, again, taking it from a different approach, not just a function, not just within HR, how do we weave it across the organization? Because DEI is not a thing that you silo in HR, not a thing you just silo and deny. It actually requires you to bring across every facet of a business, from sales,
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business areas to functional operational space to how we show up in marketing to how we show up in communities for philanthropy.
Common Mistakes of New DEI Leaders
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All of that requires DEI weaved across. Yeah. So that's a little bit of my journey. Yeah. No, I'm glad you said that at the end, because I think that's one thing, and this is a perfect transition to our next question, is that cross functionally, what is the importance of diversity and inclusion, right? Because it's not just
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the people under the HR function engagement, right? It's also, like you said, marketing, it's sales, it's finance, it's technology, all these different functions have some aspect of diversity and inclusion in them that ultimately as an organization we need to address. And so just thinking about that, because today I really want to focus on, as DE&I leaders,
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We're coming into a new organization, or we've just been promoting to the single role. The next thing is, OK, now what do we do? Where do we go? How do we approach this big task that is from the outside, my humanities, and you're trying to just understand how to wrap your mind around everything? And I want to go through that process. But to start that piece off, as you see leaders come into organization, what are some of the most common mistakes you see leaders make?
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when they start out in their DEI journey, whether that's in a new organization or they've just been promoted into that senior role. So two major mistakes that I see that has plagued people. One, this is the most prominent one that I've seen, if anything, is people were jumping into the role with a certain expectation when it comes to jumping in the DEI.
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And that's the thing. DEI is different for every single organization. I hate to say it. There's a lot of best practices that may adapt, but fundamentally, your organization is different, your culture is different, and how you operate is different. So coming in with a preset mindset of what's going to happen, what you expect it to happen, it's going to put you back a little.
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So coming in with a very open mind and knowing that you definitely don't have the answers, you're going to really need to dig in and understand how it would weave is what would be the first challenge for people who, again, coming in with preconceptions.
First 90 Days Priorities for DEI Leaders
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The second thing, and this is where it goes along with a leader's, I would say, approach, not being bold enough in this space.
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not actually taking the opportunity to truly, truly challenge not just yourself but the organization. In this space, if you're timid, you're going to get eaten alive. I'm going to tell you that now. It will keep you alive. So if you're going to do this, take a bold step. Know that you're going to have to bring leaders along. Some of them might fight you. Some of them will be your advocate. But nonetheless, you're going to have to come in strong and know that, again, respectfully, of course,
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But know that you've got to know your core. You've got to have that there. So you come in and you're clear. I love it. I love it. I love it. Don't have the expectations, those preconceived notions and be bold. I mean, just right there, we can wrap up the podcast. Call it a day.
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But just take it through leaders in organizations. And we've just started out. And so let's dive a little bit deeper and let's really kind of peel back the onion here. And when we think about a leader that's coming into this role,
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What should be their focus, their priorities, or what should they be paying attention to in their first 30 days to make sure that they're aligning everything they need, they're understanding their environment? What needs to happen within their first 30 days starting this type of position? I'll jump in with saying first and foremost is to one,
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get truly be become acclimated with the organization, not high level, but get to know your business. And I mean, like, not not just from the sense of HR, not the sense of DNI. What is driving the business? What are your key things that you as an organization represent and deliver? If you can't speak to what your business leaders are speaking to, you're already behind. So number one, become acclimated fully.
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Number two, identify priorities and timelines. Not just yours, but those who are in critical roles. Know what they're playing at and what's on their timeline so you know how you can iterate. Number three, evaluate current programs. Know what's out there. Don't have things popping up on you when you least expect it and you're having to re-navigate and re-do. Find out what's out there right away. Do your assessment. Find out and truly dive in.
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And number four, and identify vision of good and what are the challenges. And when I say vision of good, there's things that organizations do well already. How can you maximize that and use that as a way to truly get buy-in? Because if you come and say everything you're doing is wrong, you're going to have defense right off the bat. You're going to have the walls come up.
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Come in, look for your visions of good, tie it to the work. And when there is challenges, respectfully show it, but make sure that again, you see both sides. And that's where you garner respect because you're coming in as a new leader or getting promoted into space. Even your predecessors most likely has done quite a few things before you, or if it's a new organization that's never done it, doesn't mean there's not practices out there that are the best practices already implemented.
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that just because they didn't have a DEI leader doesn't mean that they weren't working on diverse slates, doesn't mean that they didn't have succession planning of some sort. Recognize what's vision of good. So within the first 30 days, those are four critical things to go after right away.
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Awesome, awesome, awesome. And so, you know, as we're thinking through this, so we've gotten the first 30 days, we've looked at the priorities, we've looked at, you know, what's been good. We've really understood the business, which I think that's an important piece is that really understand the business from that acumen perspective is huge, right? What we do, how we make money, what markets are we in? What's the future of the organization? What does that mean? Like understanding that kind of as a practitioner is huge.
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before we just jump into the work and just get out the gate and start doing things and making changes, really understanding that I think is amazing. So I like that for the first 30 days. And so now we're moving, we kind of got through that first month. We feel like in the corporate world, after 30 days, you're a veteran at this point, right? You're supposed to have it all down and pat, but we know that it's not the case when you're coming in and trying to do the work that we're trying to do here.
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And so now that we kind of made it through that first 30 days and we're kind of entering into that second 30, now it's that 60-day timeframe, where should we be looking at now that we've understood the business, we've done those things that we needed to do that first month? Where should we go after we've done those things? I would say next phase is going to be, next few things are post-analysis recommendations.
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Okay, you have story, know your story, know what you're dealing with. So you better have that analysis done since the beginning that goes with the act being acclimated, right? Do your analysis both internal, external, including benchmarks, so on and so forth. So analysis, and it had coming up recommendations to create a communication communication plan for yourself. And potentially what you're planning on doing, you got have some type of a method to communicate and if you don't have it, you're ready
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in deep waters at that point. So create your communication plan personally, and then eventually for your program. Budget analysis and alignment if necessary. Know what you got. If you don't know it, find out where you can get it. So budget analysis and understanding your resources. Critical. And again, if you need to prepare it into your strategy on what you need to negotiate for, then add it in.
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And then that's where being bold is key. You're going to need to ask for resources and be very clear about what you need because that's what you're going to be delivering on if you do not have it. So that's another point. And then next but not least, and this is something that I think is essential, start creating initial processes and procedures for yourself. So get your rhythm. Figure out what needs to get done. Start instituting your own processes and things like that, just so people realize
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you're here, you're clear, and you know exactly what you're doing. So having your own personal processes in place, procedures in place, so you can make sure that people are aligned, knows how things are operating. So those are the four key first, second 30 days. And then we're I'm just going to jump right in right in the second half of that. So when you get into 90 day, this is where you present a key stakeholders, find your key stakeholders that are going to
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carry and if not support in general. Because you have to understand, you lift others, you're going to get lifted with them. Finding that key stakeholders, presenting to them, making sure that they understand what you've done. Show them the analysis. Show them the current state. Gain that buy-in. And again, tell that story. You've got to weave that story clearly for people.
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So that's the second part of your 30 days after that. And then partner with your key stakeholders and drive strategies with a clear roadmap. And I say partner because if you build it and bring it to them, you're gonna get more resistance versus include them in the journey, set up the framework. But when it comes to building that strategy, you better have those partners there.
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You can start the framework beforehand, but again, all the details, all the fine tunings, how do they see themselves fit in? You've got to include them in that journey. If you don't, you're going to lose them and you're going to lose them quick. And then of course, when it comes to presenting to your senior, senior leaders, it's not the same. You don't always deliver the same. C-suite's a different animal.
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Boards are a different animal. You can't present it the same way. So your story better be clear, concise, and if best, down to one slide if you use slides. So that's where your partners really come into play. They need to be able to see themselves in your one slide or three slides, depending on how you operate. They better have that big picture with the ability to double click. So not just your buy-in of your peers, but buy-ins of your leaders. And that's, again, one of the toughest parts.
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And I'm going to wrap this back up to the beginning. Acquire necessary resources from every partner. That doesn't mean just money. That includes partnership. That includes investment. That includes time.
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And I am going to say this includes your business leaders owning it, not HR, not DNI folks, your business leaders.
Adapting DEI Strategies Based on Feedback
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This is great. Like I want to make this clarification point because we've gotten through the first 90 days.
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And what you see is that we haven't went forward and implemented any programs. We haven't went forward and tried to change the organization dramatically from what's been happening. It is learning. It is making sure that we have the tools and resources, making sure that I think the key piece in here, especially with the stakeholders, is relationship, building those relationships with those partners, because that's critical as you go through the organization. And I think that one thing that you mentioned at the 60-day point
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which I think is also critical, is communication. Because how we communicate to the organization, and like you said, at different levels is different, but we need to make sure that we're communicating and we have that structure in place. But how we're communicating is going to be one of those determining factors.
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on the people that we have on our team that are promoters, the people who are looking to see things get done, they can see things start to move forward. That's going to help get more and more promoters on our team as we start to frame out that vision, as we start to tell that story, as we start to essentially make a vision for where we're trying to go.
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for the organization. So I love that 30, 60, 90 days. The question that I have for you now is, so we've went through that first kind of 30, 60, 90 days. What if as we're going through that assessment each point in that 30, 60, 90 days, what if we start to see or we may think that the organization may not be ready for this work? What do we do then?
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It's about being agile. Remember when I said in the beginning, you gotta know your people, you gotta know your business. And I hope that initially within your first 90s, you're gonna adapt along the way. It's not just about assessment, it's about, I'm gonna need to tailor this assessment because I realized that my assessment might need a little bit more time in this one space.
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Knowing that you're going to need to adapt along the way, taking an agile approach to do it. And this is my engineering side of me talking, right? You're just going to have to switch. You're going to have to change gears. If some leaders don't operate the way you do, a lot of people don't operate the way you do. So the key is to understand that you got to meet your leaders in their point of their journey.
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So knowing that you're going to need to adapt, take certain things that need more time, let it have more time. Find the low-hanging fruits that you can take wins on. That's where you earn credibility. If you're going to find people that are going to jump right on, they're going to be your promoters. Those are the ones you partner right away. How can you figure out a strategy that's going to work with them? That you can get some low-hanging fruits that you can make wins? So you can use that as credibility for those who are going to need a little bit more time.
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And know that you cannot expect everyone to operate the same. That's where diversity comes into play.
Managing Leadership Expectations in DEI Roles
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When we think about adapting to leaders, and let's just say, for instance, we're coming into the role in a lot of cases, right? I would say over the last 12, maybe 14 to 15 months, diversity equity and inclusion positions have been at an all time high within organizations.
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trying to hire people for those positions. And with that happening, you have leaders, whether that be the CEO, senior leadership team, or whoever that may be, that in their minds, they're typically hiring that person to come in and do something immediately. They're trying to push them to focus on the hot topic because they want to have a good external brand or view in that organization.
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When you have that pressure against you as a DNI leader, how do you handle those situations without messing up the relationships, without making sure that we just talked about this 30, 60, 90 day plan that we don't get off track with that plan? How do you handle that type of situation with that pressure coming at you? I would say first and foremost, just listen because half the time they're just wanting someone to help them vet through their thought process because you're managing the whoa.
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That's the way I call it. You're managing the woke. So those who are going through the head journey, it's true. They're going to want you to take action. But half the time, they don't know what the action is. They want you to give them the action. So so that's the real thing about it. First, just go in and actively listen. Right. What do they think it means?
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help them understand and guide them through that, right? Again, managing that woke is a beast. It's definitely a beast. So I was definitely say, by managing woke is just listening, seeing what they want out of it. And do they really understand what they're asking for? And if they don't clarify for them, yes, you want to hire people of color.
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I want more people of color. Let's just say that. That would be one thing that a senior leader, I want to see more of my company. Okay, great. So how would I approach a situation like that? Well, wonderful. So we have this many percentages of representation in our organization. Here's your retention, here's your turnover. So what happens to the ones who are already here? What happens to the ones who fell out of our interview process? When you're listening to them,
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bring half the data there to protect you to make sure that they understand. Oh, you're not just going to do it just for the sake of doing it. You need to understand the full picture. I can bring you a bunch of people if they're going to all leave and don't matter. So again, listening, understanding why they're asking for it. Right? Why are you asking for this? Because you must not know the other side of the story.
Practical Steps for DEI Success
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And that's what we're going to have to clarify for people.
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That makes a lot of sense. Listen and understand where they're coming from. I love when we said it, they might not even, what action are we even trying to take? They might even know what we're trying to get done. We just trying to get something done. The leaders like, we just trying to get something done, but like, what are we trying to get done? So this is, this is great. So I'm loving this discussion. And so as listeners that are hearing this interview, they're writing down notes because I know I've been writing down notes.
00:25:09
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As they're thinking through, OK, I love this information. Tomorrow is Monday. I got to now walk into the office and I got to start to rethink the situation that I'm in. Right. Or I start my new job tomorrow and I got to come in and get this off. Right. What are two to three kind of just critical actions that those practitioners can take today, tomorrow to get off to a great start if we just had to sum it up and say, these are the most critical things that tomorrow you need to be focusing on?
00:25:39
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First and foremost, build that relationship, find your stakeholders. One, two, get the data. Get that data inside, outside, benchmark, whatever. Get access to all your data. You need that for your storytelling. Number three, and this is the thing, and this is where I tell people, people tend to get in trouble with. Don't boil the ocean. That is going to kill you.
00:26:09
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figure out face data, do your analysis, do your SWOT, whatever way you need to do to figure out what you need, then pick in a, I would say fairly confident way which things that you can take action from that are immediate, some midterm and something that is longer. So keep it down to three. And if it has to, the leader says, you need to add this to your list, that gives you flexibility to add another one or two things.
00:26:36
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But start with three. Don't go too crazy. One short term, one midterm, one long term. Then you'll have a long game.
James Chang's Leadership Legacy
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Awesome, awesome, awesome, awesome. Thanks, thanks. So look, this is one of my favorite parts of the show is as leaders, as we're navigating through our careers, we end up interacting with a lot of people. And I want to know from you, from a leadership perspective, and what I like to call this is a leadership legacy statement.
00:27:02
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So in 25 words or less, can you tell us what is your leadership legacy statement? And this is something to where no matter if you meet someone one time or you engage with them 10 times, right? You leave that situation and they're going to think something about you. And so what's that leadership statement that we were trying to intentionally live out every day so that no matter if you met them once or you met them 10 times, they're going to say the same thing about you. What would you say that is? I'll keep mine short and brief. I live what I do.
00:27:33
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Bottom line, I live what I do. You walked. That's what I'm talking about.
00:27:41
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Walk the walk. Look, you can remember it too. So look, and that's what we want people to say about you. So look, this has been an amazing conversation. Before we go, do you have any shout outs, any parting words for leaders? And then also, where can people find you if they want to connect and dive deeper into your thoughts on this topic? Absolutely. You can find me on LinkedIn. I accept messages from anyone. So I keep that open. And parting words is, again, be bold.
00:28:09
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This is tough work, so don't burn yourself out in this. If you burn out, who's going to do it, right? If you really have a mission and you have a purpose, you need to pace yourself and be able to deal with the hits. This is going to come, but it's all worth it. I love it. I love it. We're going to end there.
Conclusion and Engagement Encouragement
00:28:25
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Look, this does it for us. Thank you, everyone, for joining another episode of the 3D podcast. This has been Cedric, and you've been listening to James Chang, Bobo, the head of diversity, equity, inclusion, and Zimmer Bauman.
00:28:36
Speaker
Thank you. Awesome. Well, that does it for us. Thank you for joining us on another episode of The 3D Podcast. If you would like to connect on social media, follow me on Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook at Cedric and Powers. And if you have any questions you'd like me to read or answer on the show, or just want to know more about my thoughts around diversity and inclusion, entrepreneurship, or just overall business, you can text me. Yes, I said text me at 770-285-0404.
00:29:06
Speaker
You'll receive content straight to your phone on a regular basis and you can message back and forth with me. Not a bot or an assistant. All responses come directly from me. But look, this has been a great episode. Until next week, this has been Cedric Chambers and you've been listening to the 3D Podcast. We out.