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Trying -- and failing -- to hate the USA's World Cup draw
70 Plays3 years ago
Ryan Rosenblatt joins Jeremiah and Richard to discuss the World Cup draw and to share some of his experiences while following the USMNT around Concacaf.
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Transcript
Introduction of Hosts and Guest
00:00:00
Speaker
deal. It could be a big deal. Uh, yeah, it's yeah. So we're back doing this again. No zodiac listeners. Uh, Richard, you're, this is your thing with me. This is not just me. Uh, yeah. Yeah. I'm Jeremiah Shan. Richard Farley is here again. And we have a special guest today, Ryan Rosenblatt, who you may remember from his days at SB nation, but he is like,
Ryan Rosenblatt's Influence in Sports Media
00:00:27
Speaker
Hopefully, if you're like a fan of US national team on Twitter, Ryan is a guy that you should be following because he's like all over the place. He's traveling with the team and doing all kinds of fun stuff. Ryan, thanks for joining us on this show that we don't have a name for.
00:00:42
Speaker
That's better. I think it's better that way. It leaves a little bit of mystery. Exactly. Ryan has worked for SV Nation. He's worked for Fox. He's worked for Eurosport. He's worked for Technically Univision for a little bit. He's worked in professional baseball. He's done other stuff that is pretty prominent that he hasn't spoken out publicly. But the one thing people should know him from is his at on Twitter.
00:01:03
Speaker
I mean, I'm not even joking about that. The person most likely to be listening to this podcast probably knows all of us most through Twitter, which actually I'm now thinking I finally need to start taking Twitter seriously then. Jeez. You just talked yourself into taking Twitter seriously, you dummy. Or delete it so they don't have the option of knowing me through
World Cup Draw and 'Group of Death' Discussion
00:01:22
Speaker
it.
00:01:22
Speaker
Yeah, so it's Friday, Friday of the World Cup draw. And so I think we're just going to talk about the World Cup draw and and the adventure that is getting here. Ryan is maybe uniquely positioned among American media types to talk about Iran and because he followed apparently a bunch of Asian qualifying. So this should be fun and.
00:01:47
Speaker
If you don't want to listen to this stuff, what are you doing with your life? If you don't want to listen to this stuff, but, uh, you know, this is your permission that this is not a normal episode of no set doing rearing children, right? And seeing different places in the world. Are you ever not taking sports too seriously? What the hell is wrong with you?
00:02:03
Speaker
So, you know, let's start here because I feel like it's the most newsy element of this is this draw just happened. And my initial reaction to this as someone who doesn't follow a lot of these teams very closely is one, there's not really a group of death, which I think I may have stolen that from Ryan's Twitter account. You're not American enough if you don't think there's a group of deaths. You know what the definition of group of death is? It's our group. That's the group of deaths.
00:02:33
Speaker
Yeah. Did you just start following soccer this year? This is a tradition unlike any other. Totally exaggerating the quality of the draw. The best really was 2010 when England was one of the weaker seeds and there's no unmanageable game in the group. Group of death, group of death, we're in the group of death. I'm mad that nobody can credibly make that argument this year.
00:02:57
Speaker
Yeah, there's no, like, it felt like the most fair draw that we've seen, like there was just a lot of, even like a lot of groups where there's a three or four, like three or four interesting teams, but not, and I guess that maybe speaks to the depth of like, we're now at a point where there could be 32 teams in the World Cup and none of them look outright horrible, at least.
00:03:19
Speaker
I don't know if that's probably overstating it, but there's a bunch of interesting groups. I guess by FIFA ranking, the United States is in the most difficult group, but that seems outrageous. There's no way it's the most difficult group.
00:03:35
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I think, I think group of death, like by deaf, like it's nice that your fourth team, the team that comes out of pop four is like maybe better than you would normally expect from a fourth team, but like you don't get credit for finishing in third place in your group as opposed to fourth place. Like it doesn't matter. The question is how hard is it to get out of your group?
00:03:55
Speaker
And as a result that the group of death is made by an unusually strong pot three or pot 14. Like that, that's what a group of death is made from. There were really only two unusually strong teams in pots three and four, I think. And that's Senegal and Ecuador. And then they got placed into the group with Qatar. And so that right there, I think neutered any chance of there being a group of death for anyone, let alone the US.
Analyzing US's World Cup Group
00:04:20
Speaker
And I mean, you go back to 2010, 2014 or whatever.
00:04:25
Speaker
I mean, the US kind of made a lot of groups of death because they were often under seated by FIFA rankings or because of the geographic split they use back then the US was in pot to pretty much where they should be so they're not going to make the group of death the way they did. Well, 2010 just wasn't a group of 2014 I guess you could kind of argue it but
00:04:45
Speaker
Yeah, we're the ones that you would have to overrate Portugal that right, exactly. And I mean, I remember was just nowhere near as strong as people. Right. Right. And Ghana wasn't as good as they were then too. So like, there are a lot of reasons why I don't think that was a group death. But
00:04:59
Speaker
I mean, there just, there wasn't that team in pot three or pop four and now swap Senegal into one of these other groups as pot three. Now we can talk about it, but it didn't work out that way. Cause the two teams that were the, the two teams that were the scariest ended up with guitar. So it's kind of just even across the board.
00:05:15
Speaker
I guess I was thinking because of the constraints of the European group being not being able to put considerations together in the way they did it, just pushing teams down. I think groups F, G, and H are the most compelling as far as balance. Let me just take G, for example. Brazil's the seeded team in that group, Cameroon's in that group, and then you've got Serbia and Switzerland.
00:05:36
Speaker
I think you can make a case for, you know, almost any of those teams to come out as the second place team. You have to be very imaginative not to have Brazil at least finishing second. But I think the dynamic in that group is far different than group B, where there's a clear one to not to say that the US is going through because losing to Iran or the other team that qualifies isn't the biggest upset in the world. But when we're talking about groups of death, there's a way more certainty going into group B play than there is going to group F GRE.
00:06:06
Speaker
Yeah, I mean the question you look at if you're the US and you're looking at from that perspective is you got to get into the top two, whoever your seated team, unless you pull Qatar or in 2010, like South Africa, unless you get lucky with a host. The question is, who is that non-seated team that you have to beat out?
00:06:27
Speaker
That's the entire thing that matters to you. And in this group, it's not that Iran's not difficult to beat, not that, I think Wales in particular, if they come out of that playoff, they can be a little bit of a problem. I mean, they can defend a little bit and Gareth Bale, maybe his functioning and be plays like Wales Gareth Bale. But like, if that's who you got to beat to make it into the knockout stages of the World Cup, like nobody walks into the knockout stages of the World Cup, but you'll take that anytime.
US vs. England: Rivalry and Expectations
00:06:55
Speaker
So my theory about this group was that it's a good test. Like to me, it's all about 2026 as far as the United States is. It's all about like trying to get, and obviously you can't really prepare for 2026, but like that's the year where I think the expectations raised to a maybe unrealistic level. But this is to me like a great test for the United States, because if they get out of this group, it's like, well, they had to beat some decent teams to get out of it. And if they don't get out of it, then,
00:07:23
Speaker
They don't get out like, like, okay, good. Like there's no, there's, yeah, there's no like inherent, you know, not inheriting any bad luck here. Obviously, you know, from moment to moment, bad things can happen. But like you're kind of saying, if your litmus test to be a round of 16 team is Wales, that's a test that you should be like, okay, that's actually a relatively fortunate draw compared to the other options we have.
00:07:49
Speaker
Yeah. And I mean, that doesn't mean that's going to go well. I mean, 270 minutes to define four years is just not great math. Like I, I don't recommend that, but I mean, that's what you sign up for in a world cup. So, I mean, we're here now, but I think that.
00:08:05
Speaker
It's totally good. And then also on top of just the quality of team that we're facing, I think stylistically, it's a pretty good matchup. And I mean, a team like Poland, I didn't want like, let's say the US group, again, say Mexico's group, right?
00:08:21
Speaker
I don't think that Mexico's group is necessarily harder or really easier than the US, but Argentina could give the US problems stylistically. Poland in particular, I mean, the US has had a lot of their success, at least they're qualifying because Walker Zimmerman and Myles Robinson are spectacularly good in the air and Weston McKinney gives them an aerial thread.
00:08:43
Speaker
They're able to win things that way. But you play Poland and they like to push three center backs up and sometimes have them in the attacking box. And you have Lewandowski up there. That's just a matchup that kind of neuters a lot of the things that the US want to rely on. Great. You don't have them. And so I think in addition to the teams not being that good, the US didn't draw a team that stylistically is going to make them especially uncomfortable or exploit them in particular ways. So across the board, super, super fortunate.
00:09:13
Speaker
I'm also kind of like think whales I think whales has a lot of bad karma coming their way for having Ryan gigs as a head coach.
00:09:20
Speaker
Like you cannot have Ryan Giggs as a head coach, even if he's in this weird kind of, you know, middle ground right now because you're trying to decide if is he evil and disgusting enough to actually lose his job. But just for harboring that guy for so long, there's gotta be some point where he and his bad karma comes back and bites the dragons in the ass. Explain the Ryan Giggs situation.
Competitive Analysis of Other World Cup Groups
00:09:46
Speaker
I don't actually know about Ryan Giggs situation.
00:09:49
Speaker
I don't know which of the situations to talk about here, but I think the long-term affair with his brother's wife stands out to me, which of course then entails him cheating on his wife for a long period of time. I don't really, let's see. He also currently has a- Is it domestic violence?
00:10:13
Speaker
I know that they call it assault. I don't know specifically what the action was to assault, but he has an appending case for assault towards his ex-girlfriend. Yeah, that's the reason why he's not technically the full manager right now. They have a caretaker manager until this is resolved, but it's been going on for like...
00:10:31
Speaker
two years or something like that, a year and a half. Yeah, so in addition to all these other things that at one point he was like, I think the subject of some tabloid scandal that had him connected with one of their kind of like tabloid pinup models. And again, this is extramarital. Basically, this is one of the most disgusting guys in the world. And I
00:10:53
Speaker
Well, that's actually that's a high bar. He's not one of the most disgusting guys in the world, but he's a very disgusting guy. He's not like a Saudi prince or something like that. He's a very disgusting guy. And I feel particularly aggrieved by it because this was my favorite player when I was growing up. So it's kind of like you put all your childhood hopes into this guy and then you find out that he's not somebody you wouldn't even want to be in the same room with. Yeah, I'm also just sort of like
00:11:18
Speaker
liking the possibility of playing England. Like I don't know, I don't think there's any like logical aspect of that, but I do like really relish the possibility of like in part, and we're already seeing it like in the English tabloids, like they're celebrating what an easy draw this is for them. And like, I love that. I think this is a great, I think this is like a great matchup potentially for the United States. Not because talent, England isn't talented. I assume they're extremely talented. They're probably more talented than the version of this team that
00:11:46
Speaker
the US played in 2010. But I just like the idea of getting to play England in a competitive match and it being like, you gotta be like a little brother kind of underdog situation. And little brother underdog, that's great. Those words came out of your mouth as succession. I mean, I'm not even saying you're wrong, but man, you just went there with the US England thing. Yeah, why not?
00:12:11
Speaker
I mean, all I know about England and Ryan knows this from following Spurs is that if you're reliant, your goal scoring is reliant on a spur. It's going to let you down at some point. So if I'm seeing a starting 11 and I'm seeing Harry Kane there, of course, that guy maybe is one of the top five or six strikers in the world. But I know there's this karma around Tottenham Hotspur that is eventually going to impact the England national team. And I want to be on the right side of that. I mean, I watched the US qualify with my own two eyes two days ago. You can't hurt me today.
00:12:41
Speaker
So you can say all you want, but you can't know. I mean, yeah, it's like there's nothing to lose, at least in terms of perception against England. No one expects you to beat England, but they're very beatable. They have a lot of really good players, but at least to this point over the last couple of years, don't really have any semblance of a team. And also like.
00:13:02
Speaker
They have a second cycle manager and that generally doesn't go great. Um, and maybe Garris South, the exception, but history says that's probably not going to go great. And that's probably, especially the case when you're the second cycle manager with the English media following you around all the time. And so, I mean, yeah.
00:13:20
Speaker
He needs to be done after this, regardless, because he might be writing a little bit of that, you know, second place thing in the last major tournament. OK, let's build some momentum from that. We feel a little bit aggrieved, especially losing it where we did and how we did. But after this, he probably needs to be looking at a club job. Yeah. And again, England is a much more talented team than the US. England is a better team than the US. England should be the US. You're already complex, but.
00:13:48
Speaker
I mean, as far as as far as seeded teams go, that wasn't a team that was striking fear in my eye. You got you're going to have a seeded team in your group and getting England. Yeah. Let's do it. Like I would rather. Dogs against almost any seeded team. I mean, you want you want cutter or Portugal. But beyond that, I kind of didn't care.
00:14:05
Speaker
But, you know, I guess this is what my argument was, is that when you're playing cutter, you're expected to win, even though they're playing at home, even though, I mean, I don't know how much that's going to mean here, but like, I don't know. I feel like they, and they didn't look that bad in the gold cup when we, when, uh, we saw them play in the gold cup. Like, I don't know if I get standards at least.
00:14:24
Speaker
Right. I mean, they also won the Asian like that. That's a good team. Almost everyone on that team plays at the same club. So there is cohesive and well organized. That's a solid team. I'm not, we'll see what they get in terms of home field advantage, but it's also worth keeping in mind. It doesn't matter.
00:14:41
Speaker
Um, what the crowd is like or who the team is, you host a world cup. The refs will give you every single play on the way there. We saw that with Russia. We saw that with Brazil. We see, we saw that in 94 when the U S host, like you go on and out South Korea in 2002 was far school. Like it, you host a world cup, you are, and you have, you play a host country. You're going up against the refs as much as you are.
00:15:03
Speaker
the other team and I say that as someone who is ready to benefit from that in four years.
Iran's Potential in the World Cup
00:15:08
Speaker
Like that's just the way it goes. So there is that too.
00:15:12
Speaker
Yeah, so I mean, I don't know. I'm kind of like relishing this possibility. I also was thinking, I assumed that whoever Canada got got drawn into would also sort of be a group of death East site type of situation because I think Canada that group looks tough, man. Yeah, that group looks fun is that that is the group I'm excited to watch because all four absolutely wildly differently. All of them have real attacking talent.
00:15:36
Speaker
Like that group is going to average like 19 goals a game. And everybody in that group can put up three on each other in any of the matches. And they all play super differently. So it's just everything is like a clash of styles, but none of those styles are. We just want to pack the box and keep you from scoring. That's going to be the most fun group by a mile. I can't wait for that one. That group has a high floor.
00:15:59
Speaker
If a couple of those teams were in other groups, they would be serious threats to come out. And I think every team in that group is a threat to come out. But if I'm those teams, I would feel like, hey, we actually got to, I would rather almost be in any other group. Like every team in that group is too dangerous for anybody to have an off day.
00:16:16
Speaker
Yeah, then for the listeners who don't know, that's group F, that's Belgium, Canada, Morocco, Croatia, which is a fun like that. Like you said, that's going to be a lot of fun to watch that group. And I think like the other group that we were kind of mentioning as a tough one was H, that's Portugal, Ghana, Uruguay and South Korea.
00:16:34
Speaker
Um, see that one's a low ceiling group. Like it's a, it's a balanced group. I think anybody can get out of it, but honestly, I don't look at any of those teams and really think that's the quality of a seated team. Like I understand why Portugal was the last seated team. The results speak for themselves, but look,
00:16:51
Speaker
there's a reason I just mentioned them is with Qatar as far as teams that are like, hey, these are the groups you want to get drawn into, not only because the quality of the team, but being in either an A group or an H group, an A group, you're going to get that big rest before the knockout round or bigger rest in an H group, you're going to get that big rest before your actual first game. So you get a little bit of benefits. I guess you can say it's a double edged sword or, you know, the goods offsets the bad, but either way, there's something to scheme around there.
00:17:17
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, in that group, I'm also really excited to watch Korea because they're not that good. Um, they kind of lost a generation in there. They have some really exciting young players and they got some old guys, but those old guys are Sun and Huang who are just like two really good goal scores. And their other one is Joe, who's a phenomenal keeper. And like that group and a world cup in general is set up so well for.
00:17:41
Speaker
this team and you watch and play, you're like, you guys are not that good, but you have two goal scorers and a great goalkeeper. Let's see if you guys can magic your way out of this group. Like that could be like the weird one where nobody actually believes in them for good reason. Nobody's impressed by them for good reason, but they give you like 12 great moments and all of a sudden they're in knockout stages. And like, that's what I want out of a world cup is something exceedingly stupid like that.
Debating FIFA Rankings and Qualifying Challenges
00:18:03
Speaker
Well, I imagine a lot of people don't know much about Iran. Uh, what can you tell us, Ryan?
00:18:10
Speaker
Um, I mean, Iran are, they, a lot of their players play it the same clubs. So, and they're an older group and they are, that's persepolis. And what is the other big club there besides persepolis? Um, crap. I'm, I'm, I got here. It's the goal. There you go. And then, and then they even have a couple of guys who were playing together in the Katari league. So there'll probably be some familiarity there as well. But I mean, they.
00:18:35
Speaker
they know how to play, they're cohesive, they know how to defend, but if you look at their ranking, which I believe they're up to 25 now, that is vastly, vastly inflated. They beat up on like Syria and World Cup qualifying, and then when they played better teams in Asia, and when they played teams like a UAE, or they played,
00:19:03
Speaker
Korea or they played a team like that. They basically played them about dead even and then just like one at one nail. And that's the thing. They did that against Iraq. They did against the UAE. They lost to Korea in Korea. They drew them 1-1 in Tehran.
00:19:21
Speaker
Ooh, that's not, I mean, it's not great in like, even if you want to go back towards the beginning of qualifying and summer of last year, like they racked up what looks like an impressive goal difference. Cause like they beat Hong Kong three, one, they beat Bahrain three nil, they beat Cambodia 10 nil. And then against like Iraq and Syria, there's a one nil, a one nil, one nil over the UAE, like a two, one over Lebanon.
00:19:45
Speaker
They play a lot of the teams that are mildly functional very even and then somehow managed to win almost every single one of those games. And so listen, maybe that's a skill. Maybe they just really know how to gut out wins. I'm betting more that they're on a run of luck, which that's okay. That's international football. You need a lot of luck, no matter what you do, small sample size and all.
00:20:06
Speaker
But if that's not a team that I'm terrified of, that's a team you could absolutely lose to, it's a team you could absolutely draw against, they're not easy to beat, to use the term that everyone loves to use. But I don't see a lot of fear there. I think that their ranking is just spectacularly inflated.
00:20:26
Speaker
Well, we know based on history that the U.S. has never lost an important game to Iran, so we can go ahead and continue speaking over confidently about stuff. I mean, one thing, if nothing else, theoretically, we should not be playing them for last place in the World Cup. So I think you might be I think you might be using important a little liberally there. OK, OK. In case anyone that's 98 that we're talking about, right?
00:20:51
Speaker
Yeah. Well, no. So yeah, that would be 98. Sorry. I'm getting my numbers mixed up, but it was, yeah, it was after, it was when we were supposed to be good, but as our first golden generation started phasing out. And so like Ryan is saying, it was basically to avoid last place and we couldn't avoid it. So there's a little bit of pride there in one last place. You got to look at it another way. Hey, everyone remembers who finished last. Nobody remembers who finished 29.
00:21:16
Speaker
I think the other thing people should know, and this actually affects African rankings a lot too, is that FIFA's rankings are a point system. Depending on the level of competition, your games are worth more points. World Cup qualifiers are worth a certain level of points more than friendlies. Asia has a huge qualifying tournament. They have, like CONCACAF had before the pandemic, they have two rounds. Only both of Asia's rounds are huge.
00:21:40
Speaker
huge rounds where you play a lot of games. So I looked it up. Iran has played 18 qualifiers to get to this point. And because Asia is such a big and diverse federation, the confederation, there are a lot of bad teams in Asia too, just like there are a lot of bad teams in CONCACAF. Like imagine if the United States were able to rack up points by playing an eight game kind of pre-ultimate stage rounds against just the bottom of CONCACAF.
00:22:05
Speaker
that's what happens in Asia. So the teams that are consistently good in Asia get that initial round of 68 games to pilot those points, and then they get a really good sample in the next round too. That's not to say they're bad, but I mentioned Africa. Africa is the opposite. Africa sometimes teams get six games to make a World Cup. They just divide them into groups because they do qualifying for Cup of Nations too. They kind of divide them into groups, do this quick short play, and boom, they're through.
Inconsistencies in International Soccer
00:22:31
Speaker
So
00:22:31
Speaker
I might be out of touch with the current world, but historically, African teams have had their ratings suffer because of this phenomenon. And Asian teams, I think there's just reason to think that Iran's 25 rating might be a little inflated. Yeah, I mean, to your point there, in the penultimate round of qualifying, Iran got eight matches, which were six wins and two draws. And those matches came against Iraq, Bahrain, Hong Kong, and Cambodia. They just got to rack up FIFA points in that one.
00:23:01
Speaker
And then even when they got to the final round of qualifying, they played 10 matches in their final round of qualifying, but they played six of those against Iraq, Syria, Lebanon. So those are matches where you get high point value because of the competition that it's in, but not because of the actual competition you're playing.
00:23:22
Speaker
Yeah, let me look up their ELO rating because the ELO rating would take into account the level of confidence. I know Ben Bear tweeted something out that said the US was actually in the fourth toughest group by ELO rating, which seems maybe a little more accurate.
00:23:38
Speaker
Yeah, maybe I'm being a little bit critical because even that seems a little generous. Like we've already talked about three to four different groups where we're just like, wow, like this group, it at worst seems balanced. Maybe, maybe the Elo rating of England and to a certain extent, the U S is helping the average. Whereas like the floor actually in Elo rating Iran's 24th, not 25th. So maybe I should just shut the hell up.
00:24:02
Speaker
I mean, I've actually watched him play. And so I stand by everything. Um, well, they're totally competent team. And that's, I, that's how I would describe them. They're, they're competent in Elo. Iran is 24th. Canada is 22nd to me. Um, I would need somebody to explain to me why Iran is so close to Canada. Yeah. Intuitively. I guess I just don't know. I don't want to say too much, man.
00:24:30
Speaker
But I mean then again this is also where you get into through, through no fault of the, of the elo ratings or you could use 538 or FIFA rankings and people bash the FIFA rankings all the time. The reality is they just international soccer doesn't play enough games in a reasonable.
00:24:47
Speaker
schedule and amount of time to really be able to use numbers to come up with anything great. And that's not because analytics are bad. Like some people like to pretend this schedule does not lend it small sample size and numbers don't go together. Great. And international soccer is an extreme small sample size situation.
00:25:02
Speaker
That's, that's a good point. There's no all powerful world soccer equality, God, that's saying, okay, we need to increase the sample of Asian teams playing against CONCACAP teams. So we're going to have a tournament. And the whole point of this is to get a sufficient sample size so we can actually have good ratings. There's nobody doing that. And after saying it out loud, I'm glad nobody is doing that. Cause that sounds boring.
00:25:24
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I mean, just think about it this way too. And this is kind of a way that I, a thing that I bring up with international soccer a lot where people like, well, this team did this in qualifying and you want to look good or have some momentum or whatever going into a world cup. We're eight months away from a world cup. We are in go back and look at the U S eight months ago.
00:25:44
Speaker
this team looks exceedingly different eight months ago than they do now. Like, the best thing that you can say about the US right now is that their center back pairing right now is as strong and good as it's been since Aguchia and Naval got hurt in DC in 2009. This is literally the best we've had. It's rock solid right now. And eight months ago, we were saying, who the hell is going to play center back? We thought John Brooks and some other guy, and we were terrified of who the second guy would be. And so,
00:26:10
Speaker
And now we're going to say, okay, now in eight months, we're going to go play again. Also in those eight months, almost none of these teams are going to play competitive games or they're going to play like two or three nations league games. And then when they walk into the world cup, they're going to do it on a week's training camp, having played two matches together in friendly since the previous June, like it's.
00:26:29
Speaker
We try and get really predictive about things. And I mean, I, I've, we are doing that right now, just like guessing this group and how it's going to look come November. And we're doing the best we can, but I think it's also important to remember that the time in the calendar of international soccer makes it that every time they get together, like 46 things have changed since the last time they played together.
Evolution of US Soccer Fan Culture
00:26:49
Speaker
And also the Americans are going to have half their team sell like off of that MLS cup run, like this MLS cup momentum going into the second biggest soccer tournament in the world behind every MLS playoffs, of course. I think the important thing that you got to remind everyone who just gets mad at every MLS player to have ever played for the national team is the player who scored the goal that got the U.S. back in the World Cup was Paul Areola.
00:27:17
Speaker
There you go. That was, that's the, they went through on goal difference and it was Ariola's goal against Panama that put him in the world cup. I mean, you don't get here with that. Kids science kids. It's your channel. It's your generation's Paul college. Jerry, don't look up the name, don't look up the shot around the world. He it's, there's a Paul for all of us at every generation of soccer.
00:27:36
Speaker
Well, that that seems like a good transition to take us into looking a little deeper into the US or at least the journey the US went through. And I don't know that there's too many people out there that are better positioned to talk about that journey than Ryan, who is like.
00:27:54
Speaker
a U.S. national team super fan. I think you could probably, is that fair to say that, Ryan? You've traveled all over the world with these guys. Like an unofficial roadie. Yeah. No, I mean, yeah, I definitely make a series of bad decisions to go watch the shirtless in Minnesota. Weren't you shirtless in Minnesota? I mean, like, yeah. To be fair, though, in my defense,
00:28:19
Speaker
I, before the games, I was like, are you going to take your shirt off? And I'll at this game, I'm like, no. And then I'm like, fine. If we go up three nil, I'll do it because like, I had watched this team play a lot. We were never going to score three. We scored three. Yeah. All of us should have an inner San Jose earthquake fan.
00:28:35
Speaker
Yeah. All of us should have a little sound on the earthquake. Hey, you're telling me this is a good idea. It led to some great content, great personal content. On one hand, I have always made fun of earthquakes fans for doing that. And I will continue to. And I say, I feel like I could do this because they defend their actions and I have no defense for mine. Yeah, that's fair. But so, okay. So real quick.
00:28:57
Speaker
Well, I heard a lot of positive things about this traveling experience, at least from the media, especially during this last window where the US went to Mexico and Costa Rica. What were some of your highlights of traveling with this team? And what were some of your takeaways as far as what you either learned about the fan culture around? How is the fan culture around this team changing, I guess, is a secondary question. But let's do the first one first.
00:29:26
Speaker
I mean, I just, I, I really have a good, I love even putting aside the U S I love international soccer. It is just like the precise count kind of, um, like unpredictable and not very good and dumb that I enjoy. So it's right up my alley. Cause like, there's a lot of much better soccer. Um,
00:29:48
Speaker
But you know what, like this is, it is really specific in how dumb it gets, um, that I really enjoy. And then I like to travel and it's a really good excuse to go places. And so like you go to Panama and like one day you're hanging out with some monkeys and the next day you're, um, have you're, you're watching this team beat the crap out of you. And then.
00:30:10
Speaker
You go to Jamaica and you get to go from the beach there and eat some jerk chicken outside the stadium, like in, in hanging and eat this jerk chicken while sitting on the foot of a Bob Marley statue. And then you go to the Azteca and then you go to Costa Rica in San Jose, where despite moving from the Sapriza, which is.
00:30:27
Speaker
famed is like the loudest, most intimidating stadium. They go to a new stadium that has a track around it. And I maintain that it is a louder stadium than the Aztec is now. And like that place is definitely loud. Just absurdly loud. And their fans are super cool because they will cuss at you and flip you off and give you shit the entire game. And then as soon as the game is over, they're like handing you a beer and they have a great time with you. The Costa Rican fans are awesome. Yeah, that sounds super cool.
00:30:56
Speaker
Yeah, like the Costa Rican fans are really cool because they'll they'll turn it on for 90 minutes and then after they're just like down to hang out and also like Costa Rica is the best smoothies you'll ever have in your life. So that's a big bonus too. Yeah. Yeah. I read it on that front as far as like the fresh fruit goes. Yeah, the juice and smoothie game is off the charts. So yeah, I mean, I just I concocafe is maybe the dumbest of all the confederations and it's someone who loves dumb soccer. It's straight up my alley and
00:31:24
Speaker
Then especially this time, because there is not going to be any qualifying next time. I was like, screw it. Let's go do all the concaf. We can. And if it wasn't for the, the week before, um, El Salvador and Honduras, they were saying they weren't going to allow fans in and then they weren't sure if there'd be a lot of fans. And so I didn't do those two for that reason. Um, otherwise I would have done them all because Hey, it's, it's the one last chance to go do a real concaf qualifying for at least eight years.
00:31:51
Speaker
So you went to the other and all the others? Yeah. So it was only Canada, Jamaica. Sorry, go ahead, Richard. No, no, no, no. You go through it first because I can come back to mine anytime. So you would. Yeah, you basically did the whole tour except for that Canada, Jamaica, Mexico. What was it? 50 percent capacity when you were there? Yeah, yeah, it was it was 50 percent capacity in Mexico, full capacity in Costa Rica, full capacity or not. No, half capacity in Canada.
00:32:21
Speaker
very low capacity in Jamaica. They're the one place that really enforced every, they, they checked Vax cards 97 times. They had a whole thing. There was very few people there. Jamaica took it real. The only place that really took it serious, serious. And then, um,
00:32:36
Speaker
Panama, Panama was full capacity. And that place was that, that place was amazing. They were, they were loud as hell. You had a bunch of people who watched the entire game hanging on fencing and they were playing drums from the fence. And I'm not really sure where they meant it. Like, I don't know how they stayed on the fence and played. It looked like an athletic feat to me better than anything on that field. Yeah. The Panama game. What I was going to ask is, you know, our last episode, we talked about a culture a lot.
00:33:05
Speaker
And actually we talked more about American men's soccer culture and how AO is like this heightened version of that. How much of your activities going around and doing this are still connected to like American outlaws in a way that it was when you first started doing this?
00:33:22
Speaker
I mean, it's, well, when I first started doing it, there was no AO. So we go back before there was an AO. You're not that old. Shut up, man. Yeah. I was, I was, what did I, I did what? One, two, I did three, uh, US, Mexico's and Columbus before AO was founded. I know the third one was like right after they were founded, I think. Um, but yeah, no, like we've done the, we've done the before.
00:33:44
Speaker
done during and during when they were really the only fan group and now you're seeing other fan groups pop up again and I think that's kind of the most fascinating thing is for a long time and even before AO and then through the, I guess, hegemony of AO,
00:34:04
Speaker
US men's fandom, and I think even to a degree women's fandom because I think it's a little bit behind but I could track this from like France in the last World Cup in Canada and the World Cup before that and some of the other women's matches I've been to.
00:34:19
Speaker
There, there was a really, really singular American US national team fan culture. Like it was, and obviously not all fans or whatever, but for the most part, there was kind of one type of fan and all existed in one space or maybe two spaces.
00:34:36
Speaker
And I think now you're seeing a lot of different types of fandoms and a little different types of fan. And there really is no one or even two US soccer fan in the way that there was for, I mean, close to 20 years.
00:34:52
Speaker
And what is it? I mean, how would you describe it right now? Like what's, do you like it more? Is it, do you think something's been lost? I think it's a combination of both. I mean, they're definitely, something has been lost because you know, as it splits up, you don't have all the fans in a way section or all the fans behind the goal or any whatever. It's harder to organize them now because you know, they come from different places and you got different stuff coming up and there are way more casual fans now who just kind of are like,
00:35:18
Speaker
Yeah, it's like a World Cup thing or the thing came to my city and that's cool which is like great and but like they don't know any of the songs and they have a much more detached and honestly probably healthy view of this and then you have like now you see the bar 76 showing up and they're wearing they're all black and they're singing and that is a
00:35:38
Speaker
A lot of them come out of LA and it is a distinctly Latino fan group. And like that is obviously really different than anything that's really ever existed. Not that Latino people did not exist in the fan groups because, yeah, I mean, I'm one of them, but like you didn't hear a ton of Spanish. It was obviously a hyper white group.
00:36:00
Speaker
And now there is a fan group that is explicitly Latino and even they're obviously not a hegemony. You'll see some white people and black people with them too. But like it is that is who drives them. And so you're seeing all these different things pop up. And I mean, I think now and this kind of speaks to
00:36:18
Speaker
a maturity of MLS and also something that tracks more with what you see among fans of other countries. You see more and more fans who are showing up who are like, yeah, I'm a
00:36:31
Speaker
insert MLS team here fan first. And like that, that's their primary thing. They are club, they are club over country. Whereas it never used to be that way. It was always country over club. And now you have some fans who were like, Hey, I root for the U S. Um, but I would rather see like, you'll have the DC fan. Well, I guess not anymore. Last season, it was like, I want to see Paul Ariola succeed. Like that's what I'm here for. Um, and I hope the U S wins too, but it's about DC or things like that. And so you're seeing all these very different, um,
00:36:58
Speaker
Strains of fans show up now. And so yeah, you lose a little bit with that, but also it's a growth and diversification of the fan group that at least in some ways is 20 years overdue.
USMNT Twitter and Fan Expectations
00:37:12
Speaker
I mean, it does seem like that's a like I've never heard of bar 76, but I think that's super like that's kind of exciting that there are groups like that that are that are popping up. Absolutely. And I think if you if you want to look at the organized fan groups, I mean, AO came from a group of fans who had gone to games and been like, yo,
00:37:32
Speaker
We want to have a party. We want to have a pregame. We want to sit and chant together. And Sam's army just had, had given up on trying to do that. And they're like, cool. Let's go do that. There was nothing that was serving what they wanted. And for a long time they were it, but I mean, I think we've seen now, um, AO is not serving what necessarily all fans want. Like some other fans want something else served. And so the bars, I think we're kind of like that. And they're like, Hey, like,
00:37:57
Speaker
that we're not being served now by the fan group that currently exists. So like, let's just start our own and then we'll be able to do kind of provide that thing that we wish was there. And like, I think it's just kind of a natural evolution that honestly is exactly why AO is here. And so like, that's cool too, to see a bunch of guys. And I mean, let's also be honest, as someone who was around then, I mean, I'm 33 now, and I was around when AO first started and was there.
00:38:24
Speaker
But like a lot of the AO people and a lot of my generate, like we're in our thirties now. Some of them are in our forties now. Like they're getting older and let's be real. Like a supporters group. Taking the ramps, not the stairs. Like this, but young players to the phone like this. Yeah. But I mean, running a supporters group, like that's a young person's game.
00:38:42
Speaker
And so now you get the next generation who are like, Hey, like that ain't for me right now. Let's, let's do that. And like, that's awesome too. And I think you're seeing a lot more, at least it's scale multi-generational fandom, which is awesome.
00:38:57
Speaker
Yeah, and I'm curious, where do you come down on? I think this has been actually an interesting debate. Like I was listening to Scuffed, which I really, I enjoy Scuffed. I think it's a great podcast. And they were talking sort of about this, the bad name that USMNT Twitter gets, in part because it's like the most toxic opinions obviously get the most attention. And that's sort of Twitter, that's like more a Twitter problem than it is like a US national team problem.
00:39:24
Speaker
But I thought there was an interesting idea that they brought up, which was there's this traditional gatekeeper, and maybe Richard and I are part of that, where it's like we've been covering this team for a long time, or we've been covering soccer for a long time. And there are these kids that come in with their expectations and their unrealistic ideas. And we're like, get the fuck out of here. And in some ways, the US
00:39:50
Speaker
USMNT Twitter is a response to that and saying like, no, man, we feel differently about this stuff. But I don't know, do you have much of an opinion on any of that? I don't know if I really stated an opinion, but do you, I don't know, where do you fall on that? We don't need to ask questions on this thing. I know, but I'm curious, I am curious where you think of it. Yeah.
00:40:11
Speaker
I mean, I think on Twitter you definitely see it lean more in that direction and Twitter is going to serve itself more by the people who are going to say a thing louder. So like that's kind of how it goes. But I think this is an area where you're also seeing kind of that growth in diversification of fandom because
00:40:31
Speaker
It's really tough to have a person who has been around long enough, who can texturalize where we came from, who can contextualize why we're here, who have an appreciation and a knowledge for exactly where we are right now, and then is also able to look towards the future and be able to kind of chart a course and hold that in one hand. You're asking a lot. And here we're talking about fans.
00:40:54
Speaker
Fans don't get paid to do that. Fans do not get paid to hold every single part of that. And with this maturation of what we'll call the modern era of this team, we're over 30 years of that now. And trying to hold 30 years of history and results and growth and decline and
00:41:13
Speaker
and everything that goes into that. Like that's hard and that's a lot. And so I think what we're seeing is, and Twitter kind of holds its own space there, but you know, at pregame parties, night befores, talking to fans, going to games, having my friends who I talk to, some of whom go to games, some of whom don't, some of them who are big soccer fans and like the US and kind of parachute in to go watch a big qualifier World Cup and back out again, or other fans who just straight up don't really care except for the World Cup. You get the whole run the gamut there.
00:41:43
Speaker
And I think everyone's kind of bringing a little bit of that perspective, maybe two parts of that perspective. And that's good. I mean, I think that's healthy. Um, because yeah, they're, I mean, I can sit here and tell you what I think of the program and what I think of the team and various things that work. And I mean, I, I think that, I mean, I, I would hope that I think that I do a decent job of that or else, you know, um, I would have to question why I'm thinking that that's kind of inherent to having a belief is that you think you're doing a halfway decent job of it. But, um,
00:42:14
Speaker
Even like if I were to do it, like you need someone who's then going to be like, Hey, maybe you're selling them short. And maybe that's why they like, maybe you should expect more of the team. Or maybe you have the person who's just like, and two would agree. This was me on, um, Wednesday night when even in the stands, there were a lot of people who were like, well, I don't like that. We didn't, we didn't play good and we lost and never liked losing. Um, to which I'm like.
00:42:38
Speaker
Two things, one World Cup qualifying is a pass fail course. We passed 2002. We had a really rough qualifying. We had our best world cup ever. 2006. We had our best qualifying ever. And we had a crappy world cup. There's no correlation between doing a great job in qualifying and doing a great job in the world. Like they're not there. Um, so one, it doesn't mean a lot to be better or worse. You qualified or you didn't. Second of all, um,
00:43:02
Speaker
Sports makes us sad and mad enough on its own. You don't need to give it more reasons to let it make you sad to mad. If sports gives you a chance to make you happy, you should probably take that. But then again, like, hey, I mean, maybe I should expect more from this team. And I think those people are wrong, but I don't think there's anything wrong with having someone around who's like,
00:43:21
Speaker
Hey, like we should dream for better. You should expect better. I don't think that's, as long as you're not being an asshole doing, and of course there are people who are assholes while they do it, but also like if we're talking about Twitter, it's really easy. You don't have to follow those people. You can mute them. You can
Diversification of US Soccer Fandom
00:43:35
Speaker
block them. My, for the most part, national team Twitter is really pleasant because I keep my timeline curated to people who I like. And if that's a problem, you can, you know, you could get rid of them. That's your choice.
00:43:46
Speaker
Let me share this bad analogy because I started to realize that maybe we're falling into the same problem in thinking about US soccer culture that we did last week where we were using American outlaws as an exemplar of American soccer culture and maybe projecting that too much onto the broader culture.
00:44:07
Speaker
If we're talking about like USMNT Twitter, that's like going to a concert and judging the entire landscape by the 12 people that are waiting outside the back door for the band to come out. Just by opting into that space, they're kind of self-identifying as the most fanatical, willing to do the most, say the most, get the most attention. It's like, those are the people who are in the front row of the concert. If it's like a rock show,
00:44:33
Speaker
behind them. American outlaws are the people that are dancing in what we used to call a mosh pit. I don't know what the kids are calling it nowadays. But then you got the other 10 to 25,000 people that have just bought tickets in seats. And they're, they're the rest of us. They're the people that are, some people are going to
00:44:50
Speaker
you know, San Pedro Sula and while American Outlaws is there and some people just know people in American Outlaws and it's a good time. Other people are watching on TV, other people are going to watch the World Cup and yeah, you know, when we go to a concert, we don't describe the show in terms of the people that are sitting in the seats and having a good time. We describe it in terms of who's the craziest on the floor, but sometimes when we're having these discussions, we have to step back and remember there are a lot of people in the seats.
00:45:13
Speaker
Yeah. And I mean, listen, Greg Berhalter is never going to be the, is never going to do an adequate job to the people who just desperately want him to play free bird. He's not going to play free bird, but like, that's okay. And I mean, even when you, even if you look at it that way, like having spent a lot of time in various AO sections, like there's a massive, massive range of people, even in the AO section, like they're not, it's super not a,
00:45:37
Speaker
hegemoni there either. It's not a single group of people and we hear from some people and I think that not that AO is faultless in any way, but we also define AO by a certain number of very loud AO person. When there are a ton of dudes who were in women who were there who were like,
00:45:56
Speaker
31 and 58 and this guy and that guy who like literally just are there to have a nice time. And they're like, you know what? I like the soccer team and I like soccer and sometimes we win and sometimes we lose. And then after that, I go back to the bar with my five friends and we sit in the corner and we and we bullshit about who should be playing central midfield next game. But like without being super aggressive about it, we're just like, you know what? I think it might be better if we play Gio a little deeper. The end and like and that's just within AO, let alone the bars. They don't let people know we're not a fan.
00:46:25
Speaker
Yeah, they only like some tweet from Todd in Greensboro to find their fandom.
00:46:29
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. And so, and that's the thing is, and I think that's kind of a, it's, it's an, it's an interesting understanding. And I think that some fans in, uh, especially the media have just completely missed the mark on the last several years of us fandom and how it has changed and grown and kind of become a lot of different things and how difficult it is to find right now. And I think that doesn't make a good tire commercial, man. How am I supposed to put that in a tire commercial?
00:46:57
Speaker
It doesn't and I think, and I think also you're seeing this more and more and I can say this at least this cycle and especially 2019 I having been in France having gone to some of the games, the women played after France and then you hit a pandemic and all, and then everyone comes out after the pandemic just want to go to games again. And I can say at least in the stands.
00:47:19
Speaker
um there are a lot of people who were used to just be men's fans who became women's fans and there are a lot of people who used to be women's fans who have become men's fans and you're seeing kind of a blurring of those two fandoms which i think
00:47:35
Speaker
For the most part, it's great for the women's team to great. It's great for both. Well, right. It's great for the women's team to kind of grow that fan base because, you know, they win stuff. And then it's great for the men's team because I think it's provided at least in the stands a lot just.
00:47:50
Speaker
a semblance of perspective and rationale that wasn't always there and just like a less aggressive attitude.
Excitement and Diversity in Current US Men's Team
00:47:57
Speaker
And I think a lot of whether it's someone who used to be a men's fan just experiencing a different type of fandom and then going back to the men's team has helped. And then also just some of those women's fans coming over. I think it's been really healthy for both of them, at least in my experience, coming out at 19 and then out into this World Cup cycle.
00:48:20
Speaker
I'll say as a, I think this is maybe naive of me and this is not a cool thing to say, I don't think, but maybe you guys will be the judge of that. Yeah. But I actually really enjoy this team and for some of the same reasons, because I feel like it's reflective of a certain type of diversity and it's not like the country club team that I think the US oftentimes maybe was unfair, but like,
00:48:46
Speaker
U.S. that has sometimes defined American soccer. And this is a team that has players from all sorts of different backgrounds that look different, that have that are playing in various parts of the world. And and it's like, and they seem to like each other and they seem to, for the most part, be like kind of fun people and they don't take each out too, too serious. So, you know, if we do take themselves.
00:49:09
Speaker
But, um, I mean I just think it's I just find it to be a group that you can get excited about it's like fun to watch them grow. And I've enjoyed watching this sort of journey that they've gone through. And, and I and I was definitely someone who
00:49:25
Speaker
was skeptical of the idea that anything good could come out of failure to qualify last time. And yet I do find myself feeling like maybe there was a neat, like a fresh, there was a certain fresh start that came out of that, that it feels like it's been sort of a positive change. I'm so with you, man. I think this team is so fun. Like just in its depth of talent and its diversity of players, this is by far the team that I've been most interested in since I became soccer conscious.
00:49:55
Speaker
Yeah, I think part of it too. And even beyond that is there, I see a lot of parallels between kind of this team and the way they're treated and supported and what they've meant for, for the program to the 2002 team that came out of there in 98 was just so bad and.
00:50:11
Speaker
So many of us were just like, God, like, I mean, I straight up, uh, the 98 team was the first one that I like got really invested in. And they, they were so bad and just such a mess that I was just like, maybe I'll be like one of those guys who really likes Brazil. Cause they don't suck. And then it was the 99 team that actually like made me be like, okay, no, I'm a U S fan. And like that 99 team saved me for the men's team. And so it was really rough though in that.
00:50:36
Speaker
In that cycle. And then it was, we could talk about how good they are in, in that 2002 team had a great run and in the diversity and all those other things. It was also just like, there were a lot of young players who we were excited about and also like.
00:50:51
Speaker
their youth was refreshing in a way because they really were just so happy to be there. And that joy is a thing that's really easy to grab onto and make you wanna support them. And whether it was a Landon and a Beasley, and I mean, Clint Mathis wasn't young, young in that way, but he played like he was 19 years old. And you go on and on. And I think you're seeing that now with these young guys where it's just like, hold up, hold up, hold up.
00:51:15
Speaker
you're allowed to try stuff and have a good time playing soccer and then be happy when the soccer happens. And like as a fan, you're just like, I want to go with those guys. Like that's fun. And we'll see over the next, especially cause you're going to throw in the hype and the frankly, bullshit of hosting a world cup and what that means and expectations. And I hope 26 doesn't mirror 06 and go on and on. We'll see how that plays out long-term and what that does for the fans.
00:51:39
Speaker
But I think for this, this cycle, at least it's very similar to the O2 cycle for me, where it's just like, we were kind of beaten down and we're like, Hey, look at these kids having a good time. Let's go have a good time with them. And I think, you know, you, you look at 2002 that was, uh, that.
00:51:55
Speaker
Oh, no, no, I'm getting it confused with 2006. 2002 is South Korea and Japan, right? Correct. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got it in my head that it was 06. But because I think of 06 as like, even though that was a spectacular failure, they didn't get out of the group.
00:52:10
Speaker
Uh, like the memory that is burned into my head is Clint Dempsey being so excited, like scoring that great goal against, uh, against Ghana. Right. And, and, uh, him just being really excited and being pumped up. And like, that is the image that gets stuck with me from 2006. And, um, and, and I, and I just, I couldn't help but see a lot of, uh, Clint Dempsey in Gio Reyna, uh, especially the game against, um,
00:52:35
Speaker
the panel on game or the second game but the panel on game because both of them right but he had like this back heel and then he had that no look pass to the Christian Pulisic that the Pulisic is that right am I remembering it correctly is who you yeah anyway it was like I just all of a sudden see Reyna and he like carries himself with a like yes he's got a swagger and sort of like this you know like
00:53:01
Speaker
Like, I don't know, like a little bit of an attitude, but he's, he also seems to enjoy playing in a way that we don't always see Americans seem to enjoy playing in the same way that like Clint did. Yeah. I mean, well, it's also really easy to enjoy playing when you're good. So like, that's a nice, that's a nice change. Having good players helps. But yeah, I mean, I think all the, to your point though, I mean, you look at Oh six and the players who struggled was easily in a Donovan, these guys who had all these expectations thrust upon them after Oh two.
00:53:28
Speaker
That 06 was Clint Dempsey's coming out party. Remember he didn't start at the beginning of that world cup. He was just this dude who spent a couple of years of the revs out of Furman. And like, that was his time. And he was the guy who walked in with no expectations and no pressure and just this freedom to be like, let's go do this. And so, I mean, whether you want to look at a Beasley or Donovan or whoever in O2 or a Dempsey and 06, or basically this entire team in this cycle.
00:53:54
Speaker
There is that freedom and that joy that comes from doing this for the first time. And I think you absolutely see that. Listen, I'm excited to see these guys come back again in four years and eight years and bring on more on and on. Like I really like these players as individuals. I like their talent obviously, but there is something that is especially fun about watching any of these guys, whether it's this group or Clinton 06 or the guys I know to do it for the first time.
Comparing Excitement Levels: US Men's vs. Women's Teams
00:54:23
Speaker
And you guys are, when you guys are talking about all this, you're reminding me why I like this team so much. And then I'm thinking about what the U S women are going through right now. And I'm starting to realize we're not seeing any joy on the field right now. We're not seeing anybody take chances. We're not seeing anybody connect with each other in a way that's developing a collective identity, a collective, uh, you know, want to accomplish something together. And granted, maybe they're just at a different place. They're not going through World Cup qualifying yet, but the women are boring right now for the first time in a long time.
00:54:53
Speaker
the she believes cup was the first time that like in a bit that I really enjoyed watching that team play. And I think we saw that because you had an Ashley Sanchez who's just like, well, let me go do some stuff. I'm really cool. And like, yeah, that was the first time under flat co that it, it felt like maybe some of that joy in that transition and that youth was really starting to shine through. So, but yeah, I mean, you're right up until that point, at least I absolutely felt that way. And at this point, maybe I'm clinging a little bit too hard to that. She believes is where we're going because
00:55:23
Speaker
because I want that to be the case. But yeah, I mean that same thing, like that was so much fun watching Kat and Ashley just go after it that she believes Cup. Yeah. Maybe I should take that more seriously. I think I've programmed my mind to never take a she's believes Cup seriously, but maybe you're right. I need to put that in my sample a little bit because it's not like, you know, since Tokyo, there've been very many other games that are more serious than that. It's just, they kind of went on their goodbye tour to some veterans and maybe I'm judging it by that. But yeah,
00:55:53
Speaker
you know, we're talking about the resurgence of Malpugh, the potential stepping forth of somebody like Sophia Smith, like these players are the people that I'm going to get excited about. The other players, even though you really respect what they can do, it is kind of like the last days of bringing in like, you know, okay, let's, let's, like the last eight is a Bruce in that cycle. We're in addition to having like Pulisich and Darlington and these players that are actually good, you're bringing in the old heads. Okay, well, let's start Omar because at least Omar has been here before.
00:56:22
Speaker
I can't really get excited about Omar. He might score this ridiculous old goal that went on forever. I mean, the interesting thing for me will be this April window and then going into qualifying. And we're going to, I think that'll be the test of like, because listen, it's CONCACAF and women's soccer in particular. That's, it's not the sternest of tests, especially when you're as good as the U S is. But you're talking about one tournament to qualify for a world cup and an Olympics. You, you,
00:56:46
Speaker
say what you want about the competition, you are taking that maximally seriously. And so I think it'll be interesting now that.
00:56:54
Speaker
You have a Christian press who was coming back from her time off and you have these various players who are going to the veterans who are going to be working their way back into the team. This April, this April window, I think it's going to tell me a lot about it was the, she believes cut up the outlier or was that him figuring out who the young players are. So he knows where to supplement the veterans around them. And if that's the case, this could be super fun.
00:57:19
Speaker
Yeah. Maybe like we're talking about here, he needs to not select players based on technical quality. He needs to start selecting them on vibes because vibes are powerful. I mean, it's going to be powerful. Vibes are super powerful. I mean, Weston McKinney is the ultimate, uh, ultimate. Yeah. He's the vibe Lord. Yeah. Like he listened, Tyler Adams or Walker Zimmerman may be the captain, but I mean, Weston McKinney is the director of vibes.
00:57:42
Speaker
Yeah, well, that's the other thing, too. It's like people are like saying so much about like, oh, police had shown why he's the captain. He did this. This is this is like, man, Western McKinney will go out and blow up a mother's fucker sternum at any moment out there. He's the person that I want wearing the cape. But I mean, even when you talk about vibes and kind of like what's fun about this team and like it.
00:58:01
Speaker
It reminds me that like, I mean, you go back to that Qatar game in the gold cup and you just had Kellen Acosta just putting on a masterclass of shit housing, just trash talking the Qatari guy out of that penalty kick and standing in front of them and messing with the rest. And like, that was, that was a work of art. And that was so much fun to see. And then in this, in this last game against Panama and you had Luca de la Torre, just like,
00:58:25
Speaker
He was, he was out there being politics protector. He was pulling everyone get back. He knew who, who he had to take care of at all times. And it's kind of fun to have these guys. You're like, okay. Like it's also good that Luca telethora is good at soccer. I highly recommend that. Um, I like the fact.
00:58:40
Speaker
that Kelen Acosta hits a great set piece and could do a thing. But I also just like the fact that like you see these guys playing these different roles in bringing like these, like extra qualities to the pitch, whether it's like, I'm going to make sure that ballistic doesn't get his ass suspended out here or a cost of just like, I think I could shit talk him out of a penalty and yes, he can.
Humorous Naming of World Cup Groups
00:58:58
Speaker
So this, not to cut you off again, jail, but this reminds me of something that I wanted to bring up at the beginning of this podcast. One thing I hate about the draw. The names of the groups.
00:59:11
Speaker
Group A, Group B, every single World Cup, they should select eight soccer legends and name the groups after those. We got drawn into Zidane. We just got drawn. We got drawn into what? Hard disagree though, because the thing of that I love about World Cups, and this is why I don't like joint hosts of any tournament is I like how much, although, you know, in this World Cup, this is not really a positive, but I like how much
00:59:38
Speaker
a tournament reflects its host country. I think that's super fun. And I want the, if we're going to go that direction, I want the, like, in this case, I want it to be something like pick the eight, like most iconic foods or bands or locations. Something about the host country.
00:59:54
Speaker
Or in this country, it would just be freedom one, freedom two, freedom three, freedom four. No, no, no. Four to one fifty. No, I'm going to do I'm going to do a definitive ranking of the best eight Taco Bells in America. And those are going to be the names of the eight. Isn't the whole point that every Taco Bell is the same? Are you telling me that Taco Bells are different? We never know. I'm not asking you to talk Taco Bell.
01:00:18
Speaker
until now. No, no, this is that it's honestly embarrassing that you would say such a thing like you can't it's embarrassing that I don't have clarity on Taco Bell. Yeah, I mean, that's just you're you're just a person who doesn't understand America. That's that's what I'm gathering name anything more American than Taco Bell. It is just like the gluttonous most perverse and in its own way beautiful thing that I get the feeling you've given this speech a lot.
01:00:43
Speaker
I haven't, I haven't given this speech a lot. But it's- You're just trying to get us to subscribe to your Taco Bell podcast. I mean.
01:00:51
Speaker
I don't think the world's ready for that yet, but it's no like, that's what I think. I, I don't want to name it after legends. Cause especially by the fifth world's cop, you're just making up and also like, you don't want to get burned by the legend who like you find out like four years after the run is just super fashy or it's Ryan gigs. Like that's no fun, but like you like just pick things around the country, like even worse than super fashy Ryan.
01:01:15
Speaker
The one thing I want world and they're going to go the other way with joint hosts because, you know, that's the direction they're going out. The one thing I want World Cups to always be is more representative of where they're playing them. Always. Yeah, I just I you're right. I don't like the letters. If we can come up with something else, whether like we're talking about monuments around the country or just city names like, hey, like we're in the Los Angeles group, although maybe that would imply that those games have to stay in Los Angeles, but just something like, hey, Bald Eagle.
01:01:43
Speaker
in an outburger group, uh, you know, these things that are just like so, so American, um, $6, $6 gallon gasoline, like the things that define America mandates. Yeah. Fuel subsidies and in group eight, like that we can make the farm bill. Yeah. We can make all this happen. I mean, but yeah, we got drawn into Q and.
01:02:07
Speaker
The problem is that will evolve 72 different, more disturbing times between the draw and the actual tournament that we won't actually know what it is at that point. Yeah. No, it's not great group. We might have, we might have to call Jeff Cameron, right?
01:02:22
Speaker
Uh, I don't like, this is a bad idea. We're going in the wrong direction. And then, yeah, I'm trying to get one group and it's called Tim Hortons. Listen, we, I have a running list of reasons why I do not want to, I'm mad. We're hosting the 2026 world cup. And this, this fake proposal on how to name groups has just made the list. Cause it's, we're not, we're not equipped to make, we are not equipped to do this.
01:02:44
Speaker
Oh my god, I would hate it. I would hate if I was still in the industry because I would probably have to work it then and I've, I've made it like my life goal to never actually have to go to a World Cup and work it because you just get to see so few games that way. But I'm glad that that's not going to be well hopefully it's not an option hopefully like my life will stay on track, knock on wood here a little bit.
01:03:04
Speaker
But I do think it's going to be annoying when Stephen A. Smith and Skip Bayless all of a sudden have very, very serious thoughts about soccer in 2025. But see, this is the equivalent of my USMNT Twitter thing is that no one's making you watch Stephen A. Smith. You get to curate your timeline. I got to be honest with you, I never watched Stephen A. Smith and he is still a significant part of my life.
01:03:31
Speaker
Do you, you've known me for what, 14 years now. Do you think I'm the type of person that goes out of my way to consume Steven a Smith content? I don't think you go out of your way to consume bad things, but I think that some bad things make it into your life and an alarming rate for someone who's trying hard not to consume. I know. I know. It's like, dude, it's like, dude, you can just block these things. Like don't watch NBA countdown. It's a perfectly when you think you're right to not watch NBA countdown.
01:03:57
Speaker
Listen, you've turned it into an art. So, I mean, I feel like- A passive aggressively consuming crap. Yeah, I feel like you're like, I don't want to consume that. He says as he reaches his hand in for just like another heaping thing of it. Oh my God, another. You just described my whole Twitter strategy. It's like, I tweet something and like, why am I even acknowledging to the world that I care about it? Delete. That's my whole Twitter all the time. It's like, I do not even want to be on record about caring about the thing that I care about.
01:04:25
Speaker
because I want to be able to at least say I don't care about it. Yeah, you've you've you've it in the last two
Podcast Wrap-Up and Off-Topic Jokes
01:04:32
Speaker
minutes, you have put more thought into you've shown that you put more thought into your Twitter than I ever do.
01:04:41
Speaker
I have some, I guarantee you like looking through my timeline is just terrifying because I just, I, I really should consider what I'm putting out in the world. And I'm really just out here bullshitting about like four things that I care about. Oh man. Even today, like I was like tweeting about, um, tweeting about the draw and I'm like, what's my next employer going to think about this? Like who cares actually, but the fact that like, I am like circling back on all of these angles about clearly, I don't care that much about Twitter, but the moments I do.
01:05:10
Speaker
dig in a little bit too deep. Yeah, well, that's okay. Again, yeah, it's perfectly harmless. Sometimes you just want to be mad and that's okay.
01:05:25
Speaker
uh no no i i i never want to be bad sir i don't know i don't know well i feel like we've probably uh exhausted this uh particular episode of this unnamed podcast it was great having you on ryan i don't i don't know if we keep doing this maybe we'll have you on again may also be the thing
01:05:43
Speaker
Yeah, sure. Whatever you guys want. I mean, the question is, do I like, do I sit here in front of this mic and bullshit about some stuff or like, do I go down to the corner and hang out at the bar with two other friends and bullshit about some stuff? It's basically the same thing to me.
01:05:58
Speaker
I'm definitely going to be at a bar in 55 minutes when my favorite bar opens. That's part of the reason I'm glad that we moved this up a little bit today. But I definitely think there's going to be a moment in the future because this happens every six months where there's some dramatic change to the Taco Bell menu where they took something off that they don't even realize that people love. No, no, the Mexican melt is the Mexican melt is coming back. It's the other way. We're getting a reintroduction of a classic that was wrongly removed. That's a classic?
01:06:25
Speaker
And you want to tell me that all Taco Bells are the same and you don't even know what a classic is.
01:06:30
Speaker
God. Wouldn't they be offering that classic at every time? I don't understand the point of being a franchise if the experience isn't going to be guaranteed from franchise to franchise. No, no. So, so for the most part it is. There are, there are a couple of regional delicacies like the chili cheese burrito, but for the most part it is all uniform. However, they remove the Mexi melt from all Taco Bell locations, a terrible decision on their part, but they're bringing it back.
01:06:57
Speaker
Is it because it's so disgusting and it has Mexi in the name, therefore it becomes offensive? It seems like a great note. I just can't believe you, like, I know it's a podcast, I know this is an audio form, but you just come out here and show your ass anyway. As people have pointed out before, that's actually my face, not my ass, just because it's on my shoulders, it looks like an ass, it doesn't mean the stuff coming out of it is shit.
01:07:27
Speaker
Well, that seems like a great way to end this. Thank you for sticking around and letting us talk at you for a little while. I don't know, maybe we'll do this again sometime. It's a great compliment to the breakdown of The Last Sounders game, I think. Exactly.
01:07:45
Speaker
Is Schmetzer not using it up of his bench? I don't know. What do you think about the Mexi melt? Right, exactly. Actually, this may have been... I don't know. I'm not sure if we've actually recorded since the last time we did this. So this may be like on top. This is like... Where it's never coming back. Totally hijacking this podcast feed. Oh my gosh. Anyway, I'm Jeremiah Shan. This is not a podcast that we have a name for. For Richard Farley and Ryan Rosenblatt.
01:08:13
Speaker
Maybe we'll see you next time.