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Turning Failure To Victory, Money Buys Options But Not Happiness.
214 Plays6 years ago
This week John & John talk about firing vendors and turning failure into a victory, and money can buy you options but not happiness. John G also confirms that the lease on the new building is confirmed and they are now in the planning stage. John S talks setting up his new Haas Lathe to run a new part.
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
Good morning and welcome to the business of machining episode 147. My name is John Saunders and My name is John Grimsmo and in this podcast It's where two friends who've been friends for quite a few years talk about all things business machining life and tools tools Oh
00:00:22
Speaker
I realized that just this year, you and I have both bought a lathe, like really nice lathes and five axis machine. That's funny. I guess the current is still in the future tense from my outside perspective. It's on a boat. It's on a boat. It's coming. That's awesome. That's really cool.
Year-End Reflections and Business Growth
00:00:44
Speaker
But yeah, as we, as we come to December, this is the first like, like moment of time where I'm like, whoa, the end of the year is coming up. Like I've known it's coming, but, um, yeah, as I get to look back at the year and be like, what, what have we been up to this year? Holy cow. Right.
00:01:01
Speaker
I do think, um, I often resist when people say things like, Oh, look how much you've grown or what's changed? Because I often say like, Hey, you know, it's still, we're still pretty small employees and, um, and you know, we bought some machines, but it's, it's been controlled growth and normal. Like I don't think, you know, if you walk into our shop, it's, it's quite, I think it's quite representative of a typical type job shop or a small production shop. Um, but when you,
00:01:29
Speaker
When you do figure out a way to step back in time and look back from two or three years ago, yeah, there's no question, it's different. Yeah, it's weird. Yeah. I was going to ask you about the current, oh no, the year end. So do you have formal or informal things you do as you wrap up the year, like reflecting or thinking or planning? I don't.
00:01:56
Speaker
I know you, I respect you for having your kind of annual list that you add to and you check, right?
00:02:03
Speaker
Yeah, it's nothing super formal at all, but I do every year. But you do it. Yeah,
Product Sales and Growth Perspective
00:02:08
Speaker
absolutely. I couldn't. Well, I really don't go look back. Again, awesome quote from a friend. There's a reason that the windshield's larger than the rear view mirror. But darn it, I think that tab kind of just helps me stay grounded and keep things in perspective. And then think about, here's the thing, I usually don't set
00:02:35
Speaker
Ambitious goals in terms of there's those people that say like shoot for the stars the worst case you'll end up at the moon Screw that darn it set goals that you can crush and so I had some goals this year personal financial business and I'll give you an example. I wasn't
00:02:51
Speaker
feeling as happy as I thought I should be about product sales in the last few weeks. Actually, we had a great weekend this past week, so part of me just wonders perhaps if people had slowed down before Thanksgiving. Always analyzing. But then I look back at my goal for this year, we're fine. John, that's where you got to keep the growth in perspective.
Tool Acquisitions and Utilization Plans
00:03:17
Speaker
Yeah, you get so micromanaging focus that you're like, man, it's not like last week, I thought we'd do better this week. But when you zoom out and you take the 30,000 foot view and you're like, holy cow, things are going fairly well. Don't beat yourself up. You're so much further than you were last December and the December before that and multiples of a couple of years ago.
00:03:48
Speaker
Yeah, you should. Well, I think you would find it rewarding. It doesn't necessarily take that much time. You've got a lot ahead of you. Yeah, you should.
00:04:10
Speaker
I'm extremely happy and proud with where we've come to date as a team and as a company. And the future, as you always say, the future is bright for I intend to make it so. Yeah. The future will be kind to me. For I intend to invent it. Right.
00:04:30
Speaker
But I think both of us, again, our paths have this similar kind of trajectory, but also kind of underlying resources and assets where I don't, my thoughts, I haven't formally started thinking about next year, but my thought is a lot less about the phase of tooling up and acquiring stuff, which we did this year, for sure. And we ended up buying a TM3P, the fourth axis, the UMC, the Robo drill,
00:04:59
Speaker
It's crazy saying it out loud now and the SC20. Why? And I am glad I bought each one of those. We're actually having a problem with the Robo drill, which I'll come back to for sure. But then next year, and if anything,
00:05:14
Speaker
just because I think the sake of this conversation is being very, very candid. The robo drill wasn't a surprise because that conversation has been going on with that local school for years, and frankly, the price was right. But if anything, the other three were absolutely planned, if you will, and the robo drill was a little bit of a surprise, and that's okay.
00:05:35
Speaker
But it's my U-MOC, if you will. Yeah, no, exactly. And the U-MOC machines, for me, were unplanned as well. But I am so excited to have two more mills. We only have one mill right now. I mean, it's super reliable. But if it's ever down, or just if it's busy, we can't make stuff. Yeah, absolutely. We can't make other stuff. So I'm super duper excited to have two more spindles.
00:06:01
Speaker
On top of the five axis, I'm kind of counting that as something else, you know, just to have another three axis will be amazing. Yeah, I got bit yesterday by the five axis bug, because, you know, don't make parts on a five axis if you don't have to. That's a easy to Yes, you're finding that because people have said that all the time, but you're like, Oh, but I would want to make everything on a five axis.
00:06:24
Speaker
So this was funny. I hadn't even thought of this. This wasn't. This was a simple two axis part, like 2.5. It was really quick, so it's not a big deal. But here's the thing. I like having the fifth axis base. It helps me switch. You could get it for three axis too, but I was able to quickly put the right vice on, which is already modeled up and
00:06:48
Speaker
It has built-in parallels and most importantly was the fact that in this part, it was really cool. We've made it before for a chemistry lab and I could take it from two ops down to one by using a slitting saw that we know how to use now because we've been using it for the five axis stuff.
Machine Maintenance and Shop Logistics
00:07:11
Speaker
Now, I could go put that saw in an arbor in a three-axis machine for sure, but it's just kind of all geared up and tooled up in the mental processes around the five-axis, and so I did it on that, which was great. The only problem is it was brass, so we cleaned out the... I want to not leave those brass chips in the cooling. Do you cut a lot of brass?
00:07:35
Speaker
On the lathes, we cut just test pieces. If we want to see what's going on, turn the coolant off, do test pieces. So there's some going through. On the mill, I don't think I've ever cut brass really. And on the lathe, you turn the coolant off. Do you then try to sweep it out or do you just let it go into your filter system?
00:07:56
Speaker
yeah yeah i don't care too much yeah that's true but i'm wondering if it if it did oxidize the oil in the swiss and make it like because now it's like a a dark golden color and it was clear when i put it in and i'm like oxidize oil yeah you can and and the heat also like um
00:08:19
Speaker
Because our cooling rep was saying, well, you got it hot from using it so much. So it just changed color. It oxidized. I don't know. But the brass could be a factor to that, too. I'm not sure. Got it. Well, we've got the dust deputy, which is, I don't know, 100, 200 bucks. Everybody who runs a shop should put a dust deputy on their shop vac, period, end of conversation. Not up for debate. It's amazing. So I just brushed it out. I had to brush it into a pile.
00:08:49
Speaker
Yeah, shop back that quickly and then that's the one
00:08:54
Speaker
That's not the one big criticism I would say, but it's a legit criticism of the UMC is the fact that the coolant tank is part of the casting. So it's a little bit harder to get access to clean out. You do have a little like access port on the front of the machine. So even though we have our filters and so forth, it's got, you could see there's a fair amount of small chips in it. So just this morning, I've got to hook up that chip blaster. I think Jared's doing it right now actually. And pull, that's what makes that thing great is you just pull it out through that sock filter and then just put it right back in.
00:09:24
Speaker
Is it perfect? No, but it is a hands-free quick lean, you know, not going to get dirty way of just basically pulling all your coolant out through whatever micron filter you want. And it puts it right back. That chip trapper device. Yeah. Yeah. So you love that. Yeah. I mean, the thing I don't like is that we use it now.
00:09:46
Speaker
That's a vacuum cleaner? Well, not a lot, but so we've used it for... We have two different coolants right now in our shop, and we were just setting up our lathe, so we used the cleaner that you're supposed to use, which I haven't done before, to be honest, to clean the machine out. So we have had three different coolants in that chip trapper this past week, and we clean it out between
00:10:11
Speaker
so that we don't mix them all. So if anything that parts the pain in the butt, it's kind of ironic you're cleaning the cleaner. But yes, oh my gosh, I will never not use or own one of those. It's great. Okay, what's your advice? I obviously need one. Should I get one now? I have very little place to put it, but I could find a corner for it so that we can empty the machines before the move.
00:10:35
Speaker
Oh, yeah, definitely. And then we have it. I should. I mean, two guys can pick it up and put it in a truck so you could get it and then put it in your garage at home. I don't know if you're going to have access to the new shop before you move in or not, but I don't know how else you're going to drain your coolant or what you're going to do with it. I mean, in the past, we just dropped a sump pump into the coolant and like a submersible pond and just very slowly poured into a drum. That could work, John.
00:11:06
Speaker
It's one more thing you have to buy, receive, unpack, get hooked up. True. You don't have that much coolant, John. There's 100 pounds of chips in my Maury coolant tank, I'm guessing, but there's a lot. Yeah. I mean, that alone could kill the sump pump, but you're also probably just using a cheapo that is almost semi-disposable.
00:11:29
Speaker
Yeah, like a little, you know, pond pump. I wouldn't fret about using the pond pump to get because you're going to throw that coolant away. Yeah, yeah, I would probably that would be fine. But I would say order the chip trapper as soon as you get to your new shop because then you can use it to I probably would if I were you take the chance to clean those machines out. It kind of was refreshing the
00:11:58
Speaker
Long story short, I started asking a bunch of coolant questions with my quality chem rep and somewhat not surprisingly, they were like, we like what you do. Can we come help you with your videos? And I'm like, yes. So they came and ran the cleaner with us, which was really nice. I mean, there's nothing wrong with your machines, right, John? And you're not changing coolants, but I can't imagine it's a bad idea to run one of those
00:12:20
Speaker
citrus type cleaners that they provide, clean it out, flush it out, get all those chips out, cranes out with that. And then that stuff you can get rid of and then recharge it with new coolant. Yes, that is what we'll be doing. And in that case, you want the chip trapper. Oh, yeah. Yeah, because we'll be going through a couple cycles of coolant. Yeah, and it makes it so nice.
00:12:49
Speaker
Cool. Yeah, I saw, you know, I saw you got one and a couple other people are getting similar versions. And it just makes so much sense. It's like, yeah, how could you live without this thing? It's nice. Yeah. What else is going on?
00:13:10
Speaker
Um, you signed that lease the guy, I was just gonna say, literally just gonna say that the guy signed the lease the other day. So we are good to go January 1. I've been over a couple times chatted with them. And they have no fears that they'll be out by January 1. So yeah, awesome. Things are good. Things are rolling along and it is, I mean, three and a half weeks away. That's nothing that's gonna that's gonna blink.
00:13:39
Speaker
It's two buildings though. I saw that on Instagram. I didn't realize that. What's the split or what's up with that? They're both about the same size. Like one's just under 4,000, the other's just over. And that's what it is. So basically one's gonna be a machine shop and one's gonna be the finishing shop.
00:14:04
Speaker
Like grinding and, okay, got it. Grinding, polishing, possibly heat treat. So we're currently trying to figure out the split of what goes where. Keeping the machine shop spotlessly clean, dust free and all that stuff. Yeah, so that's coming along great. And we 3D printed all the models and we're doing shop layout and that's been super helpful.
00:14:33
Speaker
And so are they the same? You have to walk outside, but they're same power utilities. You've got ethernet
Balancing Machining Passion and Business Duties
00:14:41
Speaker
between the two, all that stuff? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Sweet. How far is the distance between the two? 20 feet, 40 feet, not much. I mean, you'll get cold if it's middle of winter, but just for 10 seconds. Yeah. Okay.
00:14:58
Speaker
Sweet. Uh, that's cool. So what's the, I'm kind of curious, what's a day in the life of John's shot move? Like, like you're calling riggers and thinking about when you shut down and. Yep. Absolutely. Um, planning, uh, it's expensive to move. I mean, I knew this going in, but you are, you are, you are doing a plant move. Yes. A plant move. Um,
00:15:28
Speaker
Yeah, not only having new machines delivered to the new shop that occur in the two UMAX. It needs airlines. We need a second air compressor so that each building can have one. We need air piping throughout the whole thing. We need to add sinks and light plumbing throughout the whole thing. The electrician needs to come in and wire up all the machines.
00:15:50
Speaker
It adds and it adds and it adds, not just money, but thought and time and complexity. I'm taking notes, but for the most part, I'm crunching all of it in my head and then writing it down. I'm almost at the point now where it's like, all right, Barry, you take care of this. Angelo, you take care of this. I want to get the bullet points laid out so that
00:16:14
Speaker
so and so can just completely take care of this, check with me every now and then, but you know what we need. Uh, cause I, there's no way I can handle all of it and, and, and work and run a business. So it's good. I'm looking forward to splitting it up. Um, I just need to lay it out, you know, be the, be the entrepreneur, be the visionary and be like, okay, this is how we want it and, uh, let's make it happen.
00:16:39
Speaker
Yeah, that's a pretty interesting to extrapolate that to a larger business conversation, to be involved in businesses where like legit decisions in capital planning and heck even project initiatives occur. Like let's say, I'm sure there are knife companies that decide whether or not to attend foreign trade shows. And if they do attend a foreign trade show, what the budget is and the booth and the marketing message and how much campaigning they do and like to be the
00:17:07
Speaker
manager, owner, president, whatever, CEO of that company, there's a chance that that's something that you're aware of is happening, but not in any way involved in. There's a little bit of, again, keeping this honest and candid,
00:17:24
Speaker
The more I grow in life and go through this process, I want to be more of a machinist than I do a business person, recognizing you've got to wear both hats and that's fine. But I like making stuff.
00:17:42
Speaker
I will reiterate and reinforce something that's been told to me, but you understand at different levels, which is that money buys you options and things and machines, but it doesn't buy you happiness. And I actually like, you know, that job shop part I mentioned that was brass. I did that because that's what I, I love this, John. It's fun. I'm actually pretty good at programming parts and I enjoy that process. And what do you, yeah, I don't know. It's, it's, I've had a lot on my mind about that stuff lately and, um,
00:18:13
Speaker
I think you're the same way, the risk of being presumptuous. Oh, for sure. And I mean, we like the challenge. We like the new challenge that machining provides, because there's always something new to make. There's always something new to learn. That's probably never, ever going to end. And you start to get good at it. I mean, you've had your 5-axis for like six months now, maybe a bit more. And you're still a baby with 5-axis programming, but you're starting to get good at it.
00:18:41
Speaker
Comfortable and you're like I can bang that out in no time which turns into three point one four times. No time No, not for me. No, no, I don't think so. Well, um, no the the deeds not intending to be arrogant there the details for sure and I still get tripped up and struggle but my my Viewpoint is to kind of flip it around and instead of this open
00:19:05
Speaker
unending landscape of possibilities. I've learned, I've become, again, I don't want to say, very good as maybe an exaggeration, but I've become very comfortable and confident with our work holding workflow and the way we've got that programmed infusion. And then
00:19:20
Speaker
the way that we handle sketches for containment zones, and then the way we handle some of the basic five axis tool paths, which you really only kind of need to quote unquote, you know, give a basic mastering of a few things on them, which gets you through
00:19:36
Speaker
a lot of stuff. So instead of looking at what may be the right way to make a part, which of course there is no right way, but instead of looking at it from a true connoisseurs method of 20 years of experience. What's the coolest way? Yeah. I'm saying, hey, I know how the ways I know can get me through this. And the key there is speed, not for the sake of rushing, but Phil did a great class at AU. We did a recap video. Julie's editing it now. Yes.
00:20:02
Speaker
If there's one video we've done lately where I'm going to say to you and others, you need to watch that. That's going to be one you need to watch. And Phil sort of showed how he took this part. It was largely a positional part, meaning three plus two, but it was done on a five axis for those reasons and how a guy walked into his office and with a thumb drive of the file and the guy left the shop, I think two or three hours later with the part. That's insane.
00:20:35
Speaker
So I don't look at five axis and think, oh boy, let's buckle up. We've gotten better at it. Yeah. But that ties into the whole happiness thing. Isn't that the goal that we've been shooting for for years is to be able to make a part quickly, efficiently, find the perfect workflow, perfect enough, and just have the confidence to like, yeah, I know what I'm doing. I got this.
Focus on Growth and Product Prioritization
00:21:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:02
Speaker
Well, this is turning into a great conversation because that's what I've been thinking about for next year. It's like, okay, let's slow everything down that you possibly can. And the slowdown doesn't necessarily mean what you think it means, but we're trying to hire that one more person position for proven cut slash machine projects. That's going to help me
00:21:24
Speaker
have the comfort and confidence to, to take some, some stuff off my plate. Some of it's just going to be kind of quote unquote saying no to more stuff and slowing that down. Um, because no one's knowing this is, this stinks, but no one's going to turn me into the person I want to be except myself. And I want to be that person of person, that type of person who has a
00:21:46
Speaker
amazing hunger. But I'm not trying to be frantic. I'm not trying to do too many things. And I told my wife this. I was like, I kind of miss... I have been doing this with the lathe. And I will do this again because I have the conviction just to do this. But I miss just having nothing on my
00:22:10
Speaker
plate for six hours and saying, hey, let's figure out how I do this probing cycle on my new Axial Capito Live tool lathe to get this thing dialed in. And what's the trick? What's the tolerance? How do I, what's up to you yesterday about the reversing the spindle direction? Thank you. Yep. No problem.
00:22:30
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's wonderful to be able to breathe and take that time and be completely okay with yourself that you're like, I know there's I probably could be very frantic and busy and mentally bogged down in this moment. But you know what, everything else can wait. I'm I've got to focus on this. I'm just gonna I'm gonna be happy. I'm gonna enjoy this for the next little bit. And I'll get back to everything else.
00:22:56
Speaker
Yeah, and some of that's coming back to the conviction and focus of what we're trying to do, which when I look at all the things that we can do, I love,
00:23:09
Speaker
I love the, what we've done with our fixture plates and I want to, and really the mod vice system. And I want to think about how that is a value offering and how we can focus on that and then prove and cut. And then everything else, you know, even YouTube to an extent, I want YouTube to be a byproduct of what we do. Um, not what we do, if that makes sense. Um, I actually am not super, um,
00:23:33
Speaker
I think some of the YouTube stuff has gotten noisy because folks view it as a way of being what they do. When I think about what I want to be and the story of us, I want us to have our own independent ... I get frustrated because we are, but I don't know that it comes off that way. That's why I'm like, hey, I may just slow down the YouTube, change it up, make it more casual. I don't know. I got to think about that.
00:23:59
Speaker
I'd caution you that I know YouTube is changing and it's becoming people's actual jobs. But don't let that deter or distract from what you've been doing this whole time. You've been very consistent with YouTube. You're sharing projects, you're sharing information, you're inspiring, you're doing that. You've been doing that this whole time, you're going to keep doing that. And that's what you like to do. So just because other people are making
00:24:26
Speaker
paid advertisement videos all the time and it's getting noisy and busy and less cool in general. I see it, but keep doing what you're doing and just be happy with that.
00:24:40
Speaker
And like you were saying earlier about, I think it's completely fine to be ambitious and hungry and have this sense of urgency, uh, as we both do, but also being happy. Like they can go hand in hand. Like I can be busy, but content and like, like.
00:24:57
Speaker
okay, I might be freaking out a little bit right now, but for the most part, this is exactly what I want to be doing. I'm happy. I'm busy. Things are great. I'm doing what I love to do. I've got a team around me that's absolutely crushing it and everybody's happy and things are great. Yeah, that is awesome for sure.
Vendor Relationships and Business Decisions
00:25:22
Speaker
Oh, I wanted to share a failure that turned into a victory for me, which is walking the walk and not just talking to talk and firing a vendor. So we recommended to get this company to help us out with some service stuff and met with them, sorry, phone call with them back in October with the owner, small company,
00:25:52
Speaker
phone call with the owner, typical sales pitch line, have a half an hour conversation on what we're trying to do, which is all good. That didn't raise any red flags. And then immediately from thereafter, all of the interactions just went downhill. The first phone call was like the onboarding call
00:26:12
Speaker
a week later with two or three other people from the team the guy dan was his name quote-unquote couldn't make that call so hit the rest of his team was completely blind so i ended up re explaining almost everything we talked about that no
00:26:28
Speaker
background knowledge and so forth. And then it just kind of continued from there. They didn't respond to emails. They rescheduled meetings on short notice, including one that they proposed the time for. And then like a day later, they're like, oh, we're actually super busy. Can we just push you? And so after like two months, what occurred to me is the work may not be that bad actually, or maybe good.
00:26:49
Speaker
but don't kid yourself, and this is what I meant by walk the walk. I have been through this path before with other folks. What I have learned is that that never changes. Once they've shown those, that's culturally okay to them. And maybe they're not even in the wrong. Maybe it's truly just an example of I can't stand that. And I don't mean to raise this anecdote to complain. In fact, I'm not complaining. I'm just saying what occurred to me is that if I think they're going to change, they're not.
00:27:19
Speaker
So even if the work is good, not the right fit. And I just told him, I said, hey, we're not going to be a fit for each other. And they probably don't frankly get it because they're kind of blown away.
00:27:29
Speaker
I do think, I guess one of the reasons why I do see myself as being in the right is that we've had success working with other folks where we do the exact opposite of that and I know it goes well, but perhaps that's just an echo chamber of me self filtering our relationships and working with customers who value that kind of thing.
00:27:50
Speaker
which is not a bad thing. You need to work with vendors and customers that provide what you need and make you happy and allow you to run the way you want to run. And yeah, it's just not the right fit. I mean, it's a relationship like everything else. There needs to be communication.
00:28:06
Speaker
And you gotta be on the same page and it's it's that thing you've been saying for years now of anybody who provides a service provides a Skill a talent a product things like that. There's there's a few key points that if you can just be on top of You will surprisingly stand out from the crowd if you can respond to emails on time if you can meet your deadlines if you can you know Come in at budget Etc. It's it's surprising how many people don't do that these days
00:28:37
Speaker
Yeah, but as I told that story, it sounded like I had 100% conviction and it was an easy decision. It actually wasn't. I mean, literally, this call was two days ago. Yeah. Even when I was telling them, basically, we're going to part ways, it was a little bit awkward. Then, of course, with the benefit of the hindsight of clarity, it's like, would I rehire them? Absolutely not. I'm totally glad with that decision at this point.
00:29:04
Speaker
So, I guess I was trying to share with other folks out there that are making these sorts of decisions. It's like thinking about would you rehire them is a good way to think about it and recognizing you're not necessarily going to have perfect clarity in the moment of the confrontation.
00:29:18
Speaker
So looking back like you're doing now and realizing decisions for the future will be good for you because this might speed the process up next time by a little bit. We've certainly had vendors like that too. Even machinery, we're looking at buying that.
00:29:35
Speaker
you know you get all excited about it you like it's it's going to be like this and then it slowly ends up turning not like you expected it to be but you're still kind of in love with it you're still like oh yeah but it'll change it'll you know trust me it'll work and then you know samples come in and.
00:29:52
Speaker
and you keep talking and the numbers get bigger and then all of a sudden it's, you know, 80% more expensive than you first thought it was and et cetera. And you're like, actually, like you have to reach this breaking point where it's like, ah, this actually isn't gonna work for us, at least not in this year. Man, that sucks. Cause I was getting excited about this.
00:30:13
Speaker
And what you just said triggered a thought, which is the cost of getting them started with – this was for some online marketing analysis stuff. This is all very new to us as well.
00:30:30
Speaker
hundreds, maybe a thousand bucks. It wasn't a ton of money. And so going forward, I would actually almost consider triple tracking it, dual tracking it. Because I think if you want to look at the right outcome, especially on something that's new to you as an entrepreneur, get paid two or three. This is not carte blanche advice. There's situations where this would be a waste of money.
00:30:51
Speaker
have two or three different companies, not just sending proposals, but engage them, hire them, and then spend the time over the first few months to get a chance to see which it's kind of like an internship or a test trial run with somebody where then you get to compare who's not only who's hungry, but who's a good fit. And that would be incredibly edgy. Like my competence to then unleash the one that fits the best would be so much better than even if I had found the best one the first time, but I wasn't necessarily sure how they fit.
00:31:21
Speaker
Yeah, I'd say if that's something that's critical and or a long-term thing, then that would be very beneficial.
00:31:30
Speaker
I mean, it's like when you're looking at machines, you can often send test parts out. If you're looking at new tumblers, like we do every now and then, send your parts, we'll tumble them up, we'll give you the best finish, the media, the recipe, the things like that. So I don't know if we have actually sent out test parts, but I mean, today I could send out scrap handles to three different tumbler companies and then
00:31:57
Speaker
They can tumble them and get results back in two weeks or something like that. Do you think, as opposed to just blindly falling in love with one? Do you think small shops, garage shops, grooms about four years ago, do you think you could... What do you say to people that say, oh, I can't do that, I'm too small or they won't? Do you think you could still pull that off? I say screw that. You are as big as you think you are.
00:32:22
Speaker
And don't, I'm sure I thought that too, four years ago, even back in the garage, I definitely thought that I was too small to pull off that kind of stuff. But a vendor's a vendor, a customer's a customer. If you're looking to buy a $5,000 tumbler or a $50,000 tumbler or whatever, you're a customer just like everybody else and you deserve to be treated.
00:32:47
Speaker
just like the big boys, if you're willing to spend the money at that certain company. So yeah, be careful with being too humble and being too scared and meek because you're not, you're paying customer. And I've reached this point in many different levels. I mean, the first few tool shows I went to, I had my grizzly X2 in the garage and I'm looking at all these matsuras and stuff. And I'm like, I do not belong here. I love it. This is amazing. This is my people. But I feel like an absolute nobody here.
00:33:16
Speaker
And you realize, no, you know stuff just like everybody else does. You're just early in the game, and that's fine.
00:33:27
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's true. A lot of it's in your head. Obviously, if they need to visit you, that can be awkward if you're in a small shop or you have a grizzly. But a lot of times, especially on a Tumblr example, they may not need to visit you. They may not even be close enough. But the one thing I would say is buy a domain. It's like 15 bucks a year. You can probably, through your network hosting company, set up some form of an email
00:33:53
Speaker
or for like, I don't know if it's free anymore. There used to be a free option, but Google sweets is what we use that lets you run our domain email. And I think that's one thing we've seen when we talk to vendors is like, is this coming from a Gmail or is it coming from a, you know, XYZ machine shop.com?
00:34:11
Speaker
true. I mean, you are slightly more professional when you're at Saunders machine works. I still run everything off of Gmail. It's funny. And it's, it's fun. It doesn't matter. You know, you own a kern. I mean, yeah, exactly. Heck yeah. But as you were saying, like, when we were in the garage shop, and we were looking to make that move from the shop to a big shop, we were looking at Maurice Okumas,
00:34:36
Speaker
Uh, I forget what else other layers and we would have reps come to the garage shop and they're, you know, they're driving in the middle of the country, middle of nowhere, looking for this address. And they're like, is this the place that's a house? What? And then they'd knock on the garage door and there we are inside with the tormac and it, they don't.
00:34:55
Speaker
They don't know what your future business plans are. They don't know if tomorrow you're buying a 10,000 square foot shop and 40 machines. It does alter their perception, but if they're good, they have to realize the growth for the future and that they can potentially make a long-term client here. Oh, I respectfully disagree.
00:35:14
Speaker
The cynic and he would say that a good salesman recognizes the odds and the odds of, and the truth is, John, there's a lot of grinsers that don't make it. There's a lot of grinsers that don't go beyond that grisly. They don't write the checks. And so you've got to show them why you do the exception.
00:35:30
Speaker
Sure. I guess my point is I have some vendors still that did come to the garage shop. My quality cam rep, I've known her for five years now, six years. She supported me then. She supports me now. She's my lady. Anything I need, I go through her.
00:35:50
Speaker
And it was the same with Elliot Metsura. I think they came to visit the garage shop and DMG Mori guys. And so I guess I'm respecting that in retrospect. I see your point, but it's both. Yeah, for sure. And I think that's one thing is I've gotten off better with
00:36:07
Speaker
with certain vendors, especially when we were smaller, when I was myself, meaning I wasn't distracted or stressed, but I was rather, hey, I'll just never forget the moment my original Sandvik rep walked in and I was trying to turn a stainless part and I was struggling and I was just like nerding out on what could be and I think he kind of latched onto that and saw that spark and passion. Whereas I've had other vendors walk in where either I'm stressed or they fumble or don't know anything and I'm like,
00:36:34
Speaker
This is a mutual part ways right now because you don't think I'm a big book of business to you and I don't think you're a good salesperson type of mentality.
00:36:50
Speaker
To any vendors listening right now, when you go visit a small shop, the last thing they want to feel is that they're a small, insignificant shop. Because to them, it's the biggest point in their business so far.
00:37:06
Speaker
The last thing you want is to be in your garage with your tormac and then a Sandvik rep comes in and you're trying to buy your first Sandvik tool and he basically looks around and goes, nope, not worth my time. That would be horrible and it would make the customer feel like garbage. Walk the line. Respect everybody. Just being honest and say, hey,
00:37:26
Speaker
We, you know, being honest, but like, hey, a huge portion of our shops are mom and pop shops, small shops, one man shops. So if there's any way we can help support what you're doing, how you're going, please let me know. And then you can say, look, it's going to be harder for me to get out here to your shop. So you've got my phone, you've got my email, we can ship you stuff as needed, obviously. But what you're doing is really cool. And if we'd love to grow with you, like, oh my God, that would be, that doesn't cost you anything, especially when you're already there on a sales call.
00:37:55
Speaker
Right. Yeah, that builds a relationship and trust and yeah. Yeah, sweet.
00:38:04
Speaker
Well, I'm finishing up my practice because I'm teaching our first 5-axis class starting tomorrow.
Teaching and Programming Challenges
00:38:10
Speaker
So your question is about 5-axis earlier. We're spot on because I've been going through that a lot. So that's tomorrow. And today, actually last night, I posted the first code for a Axial live tool cut path on the lathe. And it ran OK in graphics.
00:38:32
Speaker
Um, I honored my own rules of don't get carried away tonight. Saunders, you've got it ready to set a free tomorrow. Go. You know, you, I was taking my daughter to ballet. So, um, I am going to go run that this morning, which is really exciting.
00:38:46
Speaker
Yes. Triple check everything before you hit start, but, uh, like literally three times. Um, but I don't know how risky that is. I mean, I'm, I'm an inch or two in front of the Chuck face and it's just an axial contour toolpath. So I don't know not to be naive, but I don't know, you know, it's not like I'm doing a sub spindle. I'm not getting really close to the Chuck. I can't imagine it's going to do some sort of a Z plunge unpredictably. So I'm not sure.
00:39:11
Speaker
As scary as lathes are, this isn't as scary to me as a five axis linking move where you're just not sure what's going to happen.
00:39:19
Speaker
Yeah, whenever I'm not sure how the controls work on the Haas, but whenever I'm proving out a part, like you said, sometimes I'll put it two inches in front, sometimes I'll just put no material in. But it's really nice to be able to turn the coolant off and just air cut and turn the rapids and the feeds down really slow so you're in full control and you just kind of inch it in and you're like, okay.
00:39:42
Speaker
You wrap your head around it, the turret's going this way, nothing's gonna hit, nothing's gonna get too close or anything. And yeah, I just like to watch that very slowly. It's much more difficult on the Swiss, but I still get to do it. Oh my god, I can't even imagine. The thing on the Swiss though is you gotta be careful because there's two channels, there's the main spindle and the sub spindle that happen at the same time.
00:40:06
Speaker
So if I'm doing something just on the main spindle and I hit start and I go slow and in the corner of my eye, I see the sub spindle start to move and do stuff. I'm like, wait, no, I got to isolate them. I don't want that doing anything.
00:40:19
Speaker
Got it. You can isolate them, right? You can just one. Okay. Holy cow. Yeah. If you hold hold down the channel one and channel two buttons at the same time for five seconds and then let go of the one of them, then you've isolated the other one. So that works great. And I do that all the time. And, you know, Haas has an option that I've never used that where it's a dead man switch on cycle start.
Machine Safety and Innovations
00:40:42
Speaker
Have you seen this?
00:40:44
Speaker
It's incredible. You basically hold down cycle start and it runs the machine through your code. Obviously you could do it at reduced rapids and feed rates as well while you're holding it down. And as soon as you let up, letting off cycle start is the equivalent of having pushed feed hole. Okay. That's really nice, right? It's kind of like single blocking with a foot pedal.
00:41:10
Speaker
I don't think my machine has this, I'm gonna have to ask them, but I think some machines, some Swiss Lathes have a feature where the jog wheel lets you single block forward. Each click is line by line and you can go forwards and backwards and everything. And in my head, that sounds like the coolest thing ever, but I'm not sure how realistically practical it is. I think it would be helpful. Single blocking is weird to me,
00:41:37
Speaker
Partly because each line isn't necessarily representative of the same amount of motion or movement. Whereas if you're allowing cycle start to stay down, the code is going to get processed. Sometimes that takes one second to execute a line of code because it's a longer move, or two seconds. Sometimes it does literally 75 lines in 0.1 seconds. So I don't like single block like that.
00:42:06
Speaker
What are you up to today? Today, I'm switching the lathe over to make our 440 screws, like our classic knife screws. I think we have one knife's worth left. So the timing is perfect. And maybe a day late, but they haven't run dry yet. So yeah, I'll be making probably at least 700 of those in the next day or two on the Swiss.
00:42:34
Speaker
on the Swiss. Yep. And then while that's happening, I mean, that'll be an easy setup. While that's happening, I'm going to program our knife pivots on the Swiss, which I haven't done yet. And I'll need to make those. I think we only have about 23 left. So I got to make hundreds of those as well. Nice. You're still maybe hand editing some, but you're still programming your Swiss with fusion turning.
00:42:59
Speaker
Correct, and I'm still hand editing a lot. I've been slowly working on the post for the Swiss with Autodesk. It's just a big job. It's easy not to do. But yeah, other than that, I'm definitely actively planning the shop and the move and the organization and the layout and the stuff we need and etc.
00:43:21
Speaker
That was my funny post-ish moment last night was I realized that our CAPTO axial driven holder rotates backwards relative to what the Haas thinks is forwards. The tools rotating the wrong direction, which is an issue both for probing because it'll turn into your probe arm
00:43:42
Speaker
piece, but then also obviously for actual machining. And so I'm thinking, crud, do I have to figure out a way to modify my post? But then it's only certain tools because I have another axial tool holder that I don't think is backward. And then I'm like, well, maybe it's on the post, maybe it's in the post properties, there's an option for certain ones. And then I couldn't figure it out. And then I message you and you're like, John, under the tool library, there's the, it's actually poorly worded. What's it called?
00:44:10
Speaker
It's spindle clockwise, counterclockwise. No, but turn to clockwise or something. Yeah, it's like the inverse.
00:44:18
Speaker
If you edit a tool under cutter, there's a number of flutes, and then below that's a checkbox. Clockwise spindle rotation. I mean, it makes sense, but you would think it would say kind of a normal clockwise or left hand or backward tool. Anyway, that fixed it. Well, and when it says spindle on a lathe, you think the main spindles. You don't think the tool is now a spindle. My lathe is actually a mill, so I do think of it as a spindle.
00:44:43
Speaker
Exactly. Welcome to my world. That isn't funny. Because even the Haas said it said clockwise or counterclockwise on the control. And I'm like, well, which one are you talking about the tool facing the spindle? Or are you talking about me facing the part? What? Yeah, you basically just have to get used to what it tells you. Right.
00:45:03
Speaker
I just laughed because that was one of my first, uh, memories of getting to know you. Well, was fighting the multiplier, the speeder, the 16 or 18 K speeder and how forever it means like you were breaking all these like lakeshore 20,000 mills and ends up, it was just running backward. Yep. I think I broke four tools. Um, and it was just running backwards because it was a speeder. So it multiplied the other direction and hilarious. Sweet stuff. I'll see you next week.
00:45:35
Speaker
Sounds great. All right. Have a good week. Bye. Each week on the Business of Machining podcast, we ask viewers to send in an audio clip of how the Business of Machining podcast has affected or helped them. Here's this week's viewer. Good morning, John and John. First off, I just want to say I absolutely love the podcast and I love the YouTube channels. It's been hugely inspirational of me. My name is Devin. I'm from Cedar Rapids, Iowa. I work for a large aerospace company.
00:46:05
Speaker
I'm very fortunate that I get to do some CNC machining and fabrication. I would like to go out on my own someday and your podcast has been hugely helpful of the small details, the ins and outs of the everyday struggles of what it's like to really be on your own and be independent and be your own boss. Also a little bit of background about me is I was growing up in a time where
00:46:30
Speaker
The trades were not as popular in high school. Our high school kind of got rid of our shop classes and wood shop and metal shop and auto mechanics. They've greatly downsized their capabilities because they didn't see a need for them anymore. It's kind of funny now how now it's the opposite going on, but I didn't discover machining and metalworking and CNC stuff until a little later in life. And guys like you and your YouTube channel, I've been following you guys for years.
00:46:59
Speaker
It's been hugely helpful. Uh, I have learned so much from you guys. I can go toe to toe with the 30, 40 year machinist veterans. And, you know, just through my own research and reading and YouTube and fusion and everything I've, you guys have given me the capabilities and the tools I need to really make things and really be successful and really be a real machinist.
00:47:25
Speaker
So thank you so much for sharing everything you've learned in your struggles and learning things the hard way. I greatly love the podcast. It's really cool just to go through your journey the day to day of what's going on. And it's exciting to hear about all the new stuff, the new machines, the new shops, what's out there, new technologies, new softwares. It's really great for anybody to keep up on that stuff. Well, have a good day. Bye.