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00:00:01
#450 Growth eats cash for breakfast
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Topics:
- SMW buys more machines - growth eats cash for breakfast
- Oil contaminating encoders
- Fusion sketch slowness and diffraction gratings
- Coolant maintenance
- ShopVR
- Watchmaking deep dive
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Agenda Overview
00:00:01
John Saunders
Good afternoon. Welcome to the Business of Machining, episode number 450. I don't know why that feels more significant, but it is.
00:00:08
johngrimsmo
Just is.
00:00:09
John Saunders
name is John Saunders.
00:00:11
johngrimsmo
My name is John Grimsmo.
00:00:12
John Saunders
John and i have big smiles on our faces because it's Wednesday when we record this, and it's always fun to catch up with a good friend and somebody who is also firing on all cylinders.
00:00:22
johngrimsmo
Yep. Yep. Obsessive and nerdy and and just loves what they do.
00:00:28
John Saunders
Yeah. Yeah. let's Let's jump into our lists. What you got?
00:00:32
johngrimsmo
I have two short things, so I'll let you, hopefully you have more. Fusion sketches and diffraction gratings.
00:00:41
John Saunders
Diffraction gradient. Interesting. Okay, good. I have a long list, but I'll let you cherry pick a few out of them. Shop VR views, which is a fail for me. Wrist watches. New, ah we bought machines. Priming the brother pumps. Keyance came by. I need a day off.
00:00:57
John Saunders
It's like a do-its. The Precision Microcast. You can take that one, actually. um Anniversary of our shop. Step drills, custom step drills. And ah giving some praise to Grant, which on the Instagram thing I threw up of him using ai
00:01:10
johngrimsmo
Yeah, yeah.
00:01:12
John Saunders
yeah
00:01:12
johngrimsmo
That sounds amazing, I want to hear all of those things. How about you start on Machines?
New Machines and Shop Efficiency
00:01:17
John Saunders
Okay, we bought two machines. Next topic.
00:01:19
johngrimsmo
Cool.
00:01:20
John Saunders
um No, so we are... I'm definitely grateful and proud to have some really strong growth this year and growth East Cash for Breakfast. We need to do the right job of balancing, accommodating that growth, but also not getting too far over our skis. But the reality is we need another steel machine. And I spent probably about six weeks um Quietly, I guess, not and quietly meaning not publicly discussing it here, but looking. It was pretty fun. We went through everything from, hey, let's buy a, sorry, my bamboo just failed in the background. it stopped, apologies. Um, and everything from getting three identical, like kind of like selling all of the fixture plate machines we have now and getting three new identical C frames, um, all the way up to like bridge mills made from companies you and I have never discussed.
00:02:13
John Saunders
Um, and funny enough, we actually ended back on what I think is a pretty It's a good plan. where we when are We bought a second Okuma Genos M660. That machine has just been solid, bulletproof, awesome.
00:02:29
johngrimsmo
Big machine, right?
00:02:31
John Saunders
Footprint is quite efficient, but it is bigger.
00:02:32
johngrimsmo
But not like 40 by 20, but bigger.
00:02:35
John Saunders
Yeah, it's 56 by 26 or something, travel.
00:02:35
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:02:37
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:02:38
John Saunders
um And
00:02:39
johngrimsmo
it's just It's not a C frame. It's a bridge style machine, right?
00:02:42
John Saunders
it's a bridge style. Yeah, they don't, technically it's not bridge, but it it is, the table only moves.
00:02:46
johngrimsmo
Really?
00:02:47
John Saunders
yeah there's some reason it's, forget what they call it, dual column. um the prettyway
00:02:52
johngrimsmo
Same benefit.
00:02:53
John Saunders
When you see a picture of her naked, like the casting with the rails, you're like, oh my gosh, that is.
00:02:58
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:02:58
John Saunders
um Yeah, so the table moves in Y, but the head has X and Z. And so you have, there is no opportunity for there to be the equivalent of head nod, um if you will.
00:03:06
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:03:11
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:03:12
John Saunders
And
00:03:12
johngrimsmo
And so you've had Haas VF6s or you still have Haas VF6s and you've had this M660. So Haas C frame versus Okuma bridge frame and you're cutting big, large fixture plates and facing them and all that stuff. Have you noticed the difference in bridge versus C?
00:03:29
John Saunders
Yeah, and for sure, and and I will actually go out of my way to say the Haas VF6s have been great machines. Like any C-frame machine that's also quite large, you can and will see um movement in it, whether it's
00:03:44
johngrimsmo
Is this more of a thermal growth thing or like a vibration or stability rigidity?
00:03:47
John Saunders
No, no, more thermal.
00:03:48
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:03:48
John Saunders
Yeah, but they've been they've been solid. um
00:03:50
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:03:51
John Saunders
But their footprint-wise, the 6s are large, like really large, and they have more travel than we need. And so
Material Choices: Steel vs Aluminum
00:04:00
John Saunders
Punchline bought a second 660, so we now have two identical steel machines that just immediately...
00:04:05
John Saunders
I'm gonna say more than doubles our capacity because you can, you have so much more efficiencies behind some of that.
00:04:07
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:04:11
John Saunders
um And then we sold one of our VF6s, we bought a Doosan or DN, whatever, DNM 6700. It is a just slightly higher quality build spec, linear guideways, other stuff, casting, vertical, and that will become our sole aluminum machine. So once that one is up and running, we will sell the other VF6.
00:04:33
John Saunders
The first one sold in like two days. So my PSA to sort of abuse our publicity and audience here is we will be selling the second VF6. It's not up just yet. And we still are trying to sell the horizontal.
00:04:46
John Saunders
So if anyone's interested and wants to talk, happy to talk on that machine.
00:04:49
johngrimsmo
The VF6 that you go through a reseller or just list direct.
00:04:51
John Saunders
Direct.
00:04:53
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:04:53
John Saunders
Yeah. Yeah.
00:04:54
johngrimsmo
Cool.
00:04:55
John Saunders
um So that's the plan there. So that's phase one is that all happens in under a month. Those machines will all be in and out cycled. um The 6A, we sold in in the two new machines.
00:05:08
John Saunders
Phase two is, and we phase this out, like we put it on our Wiki. I wanted to kind of share it with the team, have a plan and the phases don't need to be Herculean.
00:05:11
johngrimsmo
Nice.
00:05:15
John Saunders
They need to be just milestone-y type goals. Phase two is bringing those new machines online. So some of that, of course, happens now. Like we're getting fixturing ready, tooling.
00:05:27
John Saunders
a lot of it we already have because of the way we're sort of consolidating, if you will. And then also getting the brother running every Modvice part. Right now it can run really three of the five that it needs to run. And it's been coming along great.
00:05:46
John Saunders
And then phase three would be to, we actually need to reevaluate aluminum VMC plates, period, because aluminum is now more expensive than steel. And that's just, steel is a better
Automation in Production: Stopping Bad Parts
00:05:57
John Saunders
material.
00:05:57
John Saunders
So that ties in well with having the second steel machine.
00:05:58
johngrimsmo
ohh Yeah, making sure you're making good parts.
00:06:00
John Saunders
And then phase three is also confidence in nighttime running the S700. So not only the the cam and brake detection and load limits and fixturing and the robot, but also um in process QC, which ties into the visit we had Friday.
00:06:19
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:06:19
johngrimsmo
Yeah, that's the thing with automation is it's very easy to make a lot of bad parts.
00:06:24
John Saunders
I would actually rephrase that as, I don't care if we make good parts, I care if we stop when we start making bad parts.
00:06:30
johngrimsmo
Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, I mean, weve I've said this before, we see it with our Swiss lathe, because there's no really feedback loop in a Swiss lathe to probe the part or to, you know, they're starting to come out with it.
00:06:39
John Saunders
Yeah, yeah. It's because they're inferior machines, John.
00:06:42
johngrimsmo
Yeah, li but ah yeah, if a drill breaks and you'll just keep making parts without the hole, you know.
00:06:50
John Saunders
If you could straight up, straight up have a Kern HT Micro instead of a Swiss latin, do all of that stuff, interpolate it Tell me you wouldn't do that. Take that straight up.
00:07:00
johngrimsmo
I wouldn't do it. because No, because Swiss has its place, absolutely.
00:07:01
John Saunders
Come on.
00:07:05
John Saunders
Come on.
00:07:06
johngrimsmo
No, we can make you know almost a thousand parts a day. There's no way even a current micro HD could make that many screws.
00:07:13
John Saunders
Kern, if you're listening.
00:07:14
johngrimsmo
Yeah, exactly. Challenge accepted.
00:07:15
John Saunders
Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:07:16
johngrimsmo
um No, I mean, we have three lathes.
00:07:16
John Saunders
It's fine.
00:07:20
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:07:21
johngrimsmo
We run them every day and we love our lathes.
00:07:23
John Saunders
Good. that's That's fair. That's fair. How's ah the one that had a little TLC? Is it doing okay?
00:07:28
johngrimsmo
Yeah, they all actually needed
Machine Maintenance and Air Quality Issues
00:07:30
johngrimsmo
some TLC, all the Willemann, the Swiss and the NAC.
00:07:34
John Saunders
Knack was, I think, of yeah.
00:07:34
johngrimsmo
Yeah, the NAC needed a bearings and a new live tool shaft, something like that.
00:07:40
John Saunders
That's right.
00:07:40
johngrimsmo
um I did film a little video, I got to edit that together. um And then the turret alignment or the keyway shaft for the live tool alignment.
00:07:52
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:07:52
johngrimsmo
So the turret indexes this keyway shaft on every tool change.
00:07:57
John Saunders
who
00:07:57
johngrimsmo
So when the turret goes around, it has to index the keyway like vertical or whatever. And that's a parameter in the thing that when he put the new belt in, he has to set the parameter as like zero degrees, not three degrees or whatever.
00:08:08
John Saunders
yeah
00:08:10
johngrimsmo
And he thought he had a good, and then we started running it and we were getting alarms because it wasn't aligning properly. So then my guys got in there and talked to the service people and got it figured out how to do the parameter changes themselves, which was great.
00:08:24
John Saunders
Good.
00:08:24
johngrimsmo
And then they got tweaked a little bit better, but it worked like half the time. So then we had the service guy come back in. i don't think it costs us anything because he wasn't done yet kind of thing. like And then he got it aligned and that's been running great.
00:08:37
John Saunders
good That's great. That is great. Willie's okay.
00:08:41
johngrimsmo
Willy's good. It needed some little sensor tool tool presence sensor in the tool changer, something like that a few weeks ago, but it's fine.
00:08:48
John Saunders
Oh, okay. Got it.
00:08:51
johngrimsmo
It runs great. We actually have to stop making clips on it because we have too many.
00:08:54
John Saunders
oh Oh, did I tell you R. Willie was down?
00:08:58
johngrimsmo
ah Not on the podcast, I don't think.
00:09:00
John Saunders
Okay, yeah, we had first real, hey, machines down, service call, and mixed messaging here, I guess. Like, all it was was, I believe, I don't have reason not believe this is true, our air had enough oil in it that over time, or at some event, caused oil to contaminate the B-axis encoder.
00:09:22
John Saunders
So B-axis the pivot or swivel of the spindle, the five-axis head, if you will. which doesn't sound like much to fix. And in fact, it wasn't anything other than labor.
00:09:33
John Saunders
The unfortunate part is that means you had to take the spindle off. And so, you know, I had thought of that and to Willowman's credit, like when our old machine, when we had to replace a, the U-Axis servo, they were like, Hey, we'll do it.
00:09:36
johngrimsmo
Which isn't that hard on the Willowman.
00:09:48
John Saunders
But we actually know you guys, you guys are pretty decent. You can do that. They were like, you can do this. We'll help you through it. um
00:09:53
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:09:53
John Saunders
This one, they're like, we don't, we don't think you should do that. um
00:09:57
johngrimsmo
That's fine. But I mean, like, like technically the spindle weighs like 50 pounds, like you can lift it yourself kind of thing.
00:09:57
John Saunders
And,
00:10:03
johngrimsmo
And so like the, the effort required is not huge.
00:10:03
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:10:07
johngrimsmo
um
00:10:07
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:10:07
johngrimsmo
Not like some machines. So that's, that's what was getting at. But yeah, it's good. You had a Florian come in and, and get it right.
00:10:12
John Saunders
Yeah. The lesson though, I think it's maybe, a maybe more relevant for others is they had us install a specific air oil separator filter right before the machine, which is, you know, a couple of hundred dollars.
00:10:27
johngrimsmo
Don't all machines have that as the first input?
00:10:29
John Saunders
I don't know.
00:10:30
johngrimsmo
They do, right?
00:10:30
John Saunders
I don't know. I thought so, but and I don't know.
00:10:31
johngrimsmo
Like every machine, when you plug air into the machine, there's an aerial separator like first.
00:10:36
John Saunders
I am pleading ignorance because it happened. it stinks. We improved it. I let Grant handle it all. um You know, I don't know, whatever. Oh, well.
00:10:46
johngrimsmo
Yeah, let it learn.
00:10:47
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:10:48
johngrimsmo
Does it make you reevaluate the the possible oil in your air for the rest of the shop?
00:10:52
John Saunders
We thought about that. um For sure, it made me think about it. But our... Now that you say i really should take a look at that again. um so i now that, darn it, John, now I'm to make a note of that that. We talked about it as a group. um We really don't have like problems with,
00:11:10
johngrimsmo
yet yeah
00:11:11
John Saunders
Thanks. Yeah. Well, no, but like I am proud of that because i go over and check our low spots to for moisture and it's dry. And all screw compressors will put oil in the air as a byproduct of the screw being lubricated.
00:11:24
johngrimsmo
the
00:11:24
John Saunders
That's true. And a lot of things don't actually mind having a little bit of oil in the air. This is an uneducated comment, but anyway.
00:11:33
johngrimsmo
yeah Yeah, and some things like we noticed with anodizing because we're blowing off parts and we're trying to create these ultra clean parts that if we're blowing slightly oily air onto them, all of a sudden it's not clean anymore.
00:11:40
John Saunders
OK.
00:11:48
johngrimsmo
So for that use, we had to get ah an oil separator. We should probably even upgrade that for that matter.
00:11:53
John Saunders
we
00:11:56
John Saunders
Yeah, for sure. The lesson learned of like, don't even talk about it for $300 for a good filter, put one on what we are. i just called the electrician last week. They are going to run us two three phase lines over to the corner of our shipping, like our warehouse bay. And we're going to move our compressors out of the machine shop into that other bay.
00:12:16
johngrimsmo
That'll be huge.
00:12:16
John Saunders
Um, it'll be huge for all the things we're doing and getting heat out there. And then those will then both feed in at the same spot and we'll just put a new filter on there.
00:12:23
johngrimsmo
Nice.
00:12:26
johngrimsmo
Yeah, the last thing that'll take the the noise of the compressors from your already allowed machine shop and put them into your probably relatively quieter warehouse side.
00:12:26
John Saunders
Hey, you said something good.
00:12:36
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:12:37
johngrimsmo
But it's what it is.
00:12:37
John Saunders
Bingo. Oh yeah. No,
AI in Video Editing and Content Creation
00:12:39
John Saunders
that's okay. though You were talking about editing the video in your mills.
00:12:39
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:12:44
John Saunders
um glas Um, what, why is there not AI editing software or is there, I'm just not aware
00:12:44
johngrimsmo
Mm-hmm.
00:12:49
johngrimsmo
Uh, there is now I just saw some, I mean, there probably has been for a long time, but, um, yeah, one of the guys that I follow just edited, you know, an hour and a half worth of video podcast footage with three cameras in 10 minutes, just auto cuts between all the things.
00:13:05
John Saunders
Okay.
00:13:06
johngrimsmo
So it is, it's obviously there.
00:13:06
John Saunders
I should look that up.
00:13:09
johngrimsmo
It's just not popular yet. Um, but yeah, it's getting better.
00:13:14
John Saunders
i mean, these days, everyone's a content creator the versus when you, I did it 10 years ago, but it's like, Hey, you filmed two cameras and a zoom mic.
00:13:14
johngrimsmo
Everything's getting better.
00:13:21
John Saunders
And then there's a lot of, there's a lot of just waste footage.
00:13:22
johngrimsmo
becomes a lot of work. Yep.
00:13:24
John Saunders
Like why can't, a i mean, AI should be able to realize when you repeat yourself to to do a verbal retake or, you know, the downtime.
00:13:30
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:13:33
johngrimsmo
Yeah. And I mean, i I hate to ah put video editors out of a job, but you and me as content creators, I don't want to edit videos. I don't want to sit here and edit video.
00:13:44
johngrimsmo
I want to create content.
00:13:45
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:13:45
johngrimsmo
i want to create value with what I'm filming.
00:13:47
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:13:48
johngrimsmo
want show cool stuff. I want to tell a cool story and all the technical behind it. Yeah. It doesn't really matter to me.
00:13:57
John Saunders
Yeah. Agree. Well, we like talked about this a lot. Like I don't, we're not a remotely a content creator these days, but I still will create content. So I just don't, I want it to be well done, but like, I don't care.
00:14:08
John Saunders
I'm not trying to impress people or sponsors or or that type of stuff.
00:14:09
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:14:12
John Saunders
It's a cost center. That makes sense. I hate that term, actually.
00:14:14
johngrimsmo
yeah Yeah, exactly. Not a profit center. 100%.
00:14:16
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:14:19
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:14:21
johngrimsmo
Yeah, i've I've been editing on my phone lately.
00:14:24
John Saunders
Oh, my God. Really?
00:14:25
johngrimsmo
Yeah, it works great. Yeah. Because if I film stuff on my phone, vertical or horizontal, but mostly vertical stuff for Instagram, um I have all the clips right there.
00:14:27
John Saunders
i can't.
00:14:34
johngrimsmo
I pulled them into the app I use. it's called YouCut. It's free. It's pretty great.
00:14:40
John Saunders
You don't find yourself like frustrated that you're just like too dang.
00:14:40
johngrimsmo
Fast and easy. I'm getting better at it. Yeah.
00:14:44
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:14:45
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:14:46
John Saunders
I'm look, I'm shamelessly a, uh, what do they call us? Not mid, not boomers. don't even know, Jen, whatever. Like I can't buy a plane ticket without getting my laptop out or like anything big has to happen on my computer.
00:15:02
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:15:02
johngrimsmo
yeah I'm probably fifty fifty That depends on the use, but yeah.
00:15:04
John Saunders
Yeah. Yeah.
00:15:08
johngrimsmo
But it's it's all about reducing the friction. You know, it's I don't I'm not no longer comfortable on like desktop video editing software. It's been so long since I've touched it.
00:15:17
John Saunders
Oh, yeah.
00:15:18
johngrimsmo
So I, you know, and for me to send it to my guy for a quick tweak or whatever, or it's, you know, 2am and I just filmed a little video on my and my desk at home and I just want to throw it together.
00:15:20
John Saunders
Sure.
00:15:25
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:15:31
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:15:31
johngrimsmo
Do it myself. It's easy.
00:15:32
John Saunders
Well, i know there's I know I'm behind, like even talking to Dylan when, almost a year ago probably, when he was working with his wonderful podcast, with Intolerance, he believed his podcast software creates a a word, like a text doc or Google Docs sheet, and then you the host or the interviewee can go on, read through it. And if that they said something halfway through it, like, you know, I love Lathe, you just highlight those words and hit delete.
00:16:02
John Saunders
in the text file, and it updates the audio file.
00:16:06
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:16:07
John Saunders
I mean, like, what?
00:16:08
johngrimsmo
That's cool. I was actually thinking this morning, what could be cool for some people is, you know, I have 680 YouTube videos on my YouTube channel. I have said a lot of words and a lot of phrases.
00:16:20
johngrimsmo
Wouldn't it be kind of sweet to have a little database where I could search for a few keywords and it would pull up the exact clips of when I've said this before, both for historical research, but also for like to pull up this clip of like last time I said, boom, or, know,
00:16:25
John Saunders
Yeah, I know.
00:16:37
johngrimsmo
break or end mill or whatever. i don't know.
00:16:39
John Saunders
Right.
00:16:39
johngrimsmo
um You know, to like, to like find those.
00:16:39
John Saunders
All right.
00:16:41
johngrimsmo
And I'm sure that exists, but it was a thought I had this morning that like, that could have a use case for me. I don't know.
00:16:48
John Saunders
Well, somebody emailed in, i actually don't think I forwarded it to you that they're like, Hey, you should really publish or at least keep transcripts of this podcast because it would be very helpful for people to be able to find past discussions.
00:17:00
John Saunders
I just, I don't know.
00:17:02
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:17:03
John Saunders
just was like, yeah, I don't know.
00:17:04
johngrimsmo
Yeah, that is kind of the downside of a 45-minute podcast is you have to listen the whole thing to remember that one little thing you're thinking about.
00:17:11
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:17:11
johngrimsmo
um It is hard to find, you know, the right snippets, but that's kind of not our intention. Our intention is just kind of like, listen to it.
00:17:21
John Saunders
Yeah, I'm in the middle ground though. I don't, I'm like resistant to the work side of it, but I'd like to think, trying to stay humble, I'd like to think there's things that you've said and I've said that have been helpful. And if somebody wants to go and be like, hey, you know, go onto the, the bomb LLM.
00:17:31
johngrimsmo
Mm-hmm.
00:17:35
John Saunders
It's like, when did Grimsmo mention this about the current or when did Saunders mention this about alone or something like that?
00:17:41
johngrimsmo
That'd be helpful. Yeah.
00:17:42
John Saunders
Yeah, that's like, that's what we're, that is what we're here for.
00:17:45
johngrimsmo
Yep. Yep. That's a good point. And that's where the world is going.
00:17:49
John Saunders
For sure.
00:17:50
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Which is really cool. Really powerful.
00:17:53
John Saunders
That was the, oh, actually, hold on One thing I wanted to say before we move on was um I had started a wiki page or internal wiki on just advice and things to consider when we're buying our
Documenting Machine Purchases
00:18:05
John Saunders
next machine.
00:18:05
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Yeah.
00:18:06
John Saunders
And it's just like the dump, tribal dump of things I've learned or I've heard from others. And I'll tell you it was really helpful because the these the two machines, the deals came together fairly quickly and I've never bought two machines kind of at the same time.
00:18:19
John Saunders
And so I'm looking through the paperwork and I'm thinking, okay, What is all that stuff I wanted to make sure of? And I'll tell you, it was really helpful stuff like check what the warranty is and check the paperwork and for certain things.
00:18:30
John Saunders
And then even little things that you, like not the end of the world, but like, no, delivery, what triggers the final payment is not when...
00:18:31
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:18:40
John Saunders
when you drop the machine off, it's when you commission it. Like when your sales guys, or excuse me, field techs, whatever, have like handed it over to us.
00:18:46
johngrimsmo
Service guys here.
00:18:48
John Saunders
And that includes all accessories. Because we did have a situation where a specific accessory was delayed two months, which meant we weren't going to use the machine.
00:18:50
johngrimsmo
I remember, yeah.
00:18:58
John Saunders
And what's interesting is that the way we negotiate, it I think is the right way, even if they don't like it. But in the end, they were all fine with it. So it's like, okay what know you don't what you don't ask for.
00:19:07
johngrimsmo
yeah You're the one paying the check. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. and And you were able to write that document at a time when you weren't emotionally excited to buy it.
00:19:16
John Saunders
I'm
00:19:17
johngrimsmo
And then now at a time when you are emotionally excited to buy it, you get that like calm peace of mind checklist of like, don't forget.
00:19:24
John Saunders
just following a process.
00:19:25
johngrimsmo
Exactly. That's pretty cool.
00:19:27
John Saunders
Yeah, it was good.
00:19:29
johngrimsmo
Good news.
00:19:30
John Saunders
ah The thing I was going to flow into was, we're talking about AI and where the world's going, is I threw up a thing on Instagram, all credit it to Grant. He used Claude, and it may I think I mentioned it, I'm sorry, on the podcast last week, but seeing the response from folks on
00:19:45
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:19:45
John Saunders
Instagram was pretty funny. a lot of people were like, this is incredible. A bunch of people were like, that's been out for 10 years. I'm like, ah sorry, I don't think you understand. It has been a option that may have cost thousands of dollars and required integration for like Grant built this in, I don't want to discredit him.
00:19:55
johngrimsmo
Yes.
00:19:59
johngrimsmo
Days, days, but yeah.
00:20:00
John Saunders
It probably took a few days of ah picking around, but like, And it does everything we want where it's reading parts from a USB mic and it's pushing them through the Focus 2 FANUC API thing to update the toolware comp.
00:20:11
John Saunders
And we did it. We control it. We built it. We integrate it. We own it. Like, that's insane.
00:20:16
johngrimsmo
Yeah, that's cool. No, that is extremely impressive.
00:20:23
johngrimsmo
yeah And it's needs-based. It's not a one solution fits all. It's not meant to be.
00:20:27
John Saunders
Right.
00:20:27
johngrimsmo
And that's the problem with all the previous ones is whoever's building it, the programmer who put a lot of work into the program has to build something that's valuable and cost thousands of dollars so that they can make their money back.
00:20:38
johngrimsmo
But it has to like one solution fits all and it never does.
00:20:39
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:20:42
johngrimsmo
It's always like, and But that's not exactly what I want. So that's why I've always hesitated investing large money into those kind of custom solutions is because that's, I would want it different.
00:20:52
johngrimsmo
I want it my way. And now with AI programming, I can have it exactly my way, even if my way is stupid, but it works for me.
00:20:54
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:21:00
johngrimsmo
You know, it won't work for you.
00:21:02
John Saunders
Yeah, right. that There's a verb I'm not sure it exists or I'm not aware it yet of this like kind of like immediate, it's kind of like the Jetsons, like you hit a button and it prints an object, which 3D printers aren't, but kind of are. It's the same thing where it's just kind of like, you're just like, hey, I want a new front end for my website that does these three things. And then all of a sudden just, it just exists.
00:21:24
johngrimsmo
Yep. And then you go, oh no, not like that.
00:21:25
John Saunders
What?
00:21:26
johngrimsmo
Make this blue, make that bigger, make this drop down and not cover that menu when it drops down. And it goes, okay.
00:21:33
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:21:34
johngrimsmo
And it's like, you no longer have to, it it does actually make a lot of decisions for you. And then you can fine tune it and say, no, i'm not like that. It's like, try again.
00:21:43
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:21:43
johngrimsmo
And I've even, i haven't done it yet, but I've been tempted to be like, like when designing a website or something like that, like make me 10 options with buttons that I can click through with colorways or whatever.
00:21:51
John Saunders
Mm-hmm.
00:21:53
johngrimsmo
And just let me play with them all and be like, oh, number seven is the one to go.
00:21:58
John Saunders
Yeah. Yeah. It's incredible.
00:22:02
johngrimsmo
yep
00:22:02
John Saunders
All right, and
Fusion Sketch Challenges and Solutions
00:22:03
John Saunders
what's on your list?
00:22:03
johngrimsmo
Alright, so fusion sketches. This has been low-key driving me crazy for years now. Some of my sketches get pretty involved, like, you know, line drawing sketches kind of thing, especially when there's an engraving with a lot of details, like specifically the dragon scale engraving on our Rask.
00:22:18
John Saunders
Okay.
00:22:20
johngrimsmo
Because... it was It started off life as a hand-drawn like Sharpie sketch, and that has line weight to it.
00:22:27
John Saunders
Okay.
00:22:29
johngrimsmo
And I forget how I did it 10, 15 years ago, but ah some sort of vector magic or whatever to trace lines on the outside and inside of every single Sharpie line.
00:22:29
John Saunders
Okay.
00:22:40
johngrimsmo
And so they squiggle.
00:22:41
John Saunders
Wow. Mm-hmm.
00:22:42
johngrimsmo
um which makes the dragon scale engraving look so cool because there's no straight lines. Everything's rough and squiggly and the two lines kind of diverge and converge and come back together. And that's why it looks so cool. But in Fusion, it's like a billion little lines and arcs.
00:22:57
johngrimsmo
And it's it's really slow. I have two computers that I use Fusion on. One is probably from 2018, my laptop at work. And then my PC at home is 580.
00:23:08
johngrimsmo
three years old four years old something like that and pretty beefy at least it was at the time and it's slow on both systems it's faster on my pc but sketches like that i don't know if you have any thoughts or if anybody listening has any thoughts um is that just par for the course for fusion like say i want to draw a line across a bunch of sketches and click t for trim and just trim the end of it off i have to wait for several seconds sometimes for that to execute
00:23:33
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:23:38
johngrimsmo
And so editing the sketch, like I had the profile of the handle, the outline where all the dragon scales overlap and everything. And I wanted to inset that, like do an offset by 60th hour or something like that.
00:23:51
johngrimsmo
So I'd have a new profile.
00:23:52
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:23:53
johngrimsmo
The profile itself is not the problem, but it's trimming all of the dragon scale sketches around the outside.
00:23:57
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:23:58
johngrimsmo
It took me like half an hour. And that's frustrating.
00:24:01
John Saunders
So is this that like and more of an academic question or do you need to be in and out of the sketch a lot and so this needs to be solved?
00:24:07
johngrimsmo
I, it's, it's frustrating. It prevents me from wanting to do more of it.
00:24:12
John Saunders
No, hear it. Yeah. Yeah, that that's a good way of putting it. Well, one option is if you're if you're willing to share the file with me, I'll happily delete it when I'm done. I've got a four-month-old computer that's for sure going to be better than your four-year-old computer.
00:24:23
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:24:26
John Saunders
That's a quick way to figure out, is does a better CPU and GPU help?
00:24:27
johngrimsmo
Sure. Yeah. That's interesting.
00:24:29
John Saunders
um
00:24:30
johngrimsmo
Mm-hmm.
00:24:30
John Saunders
I remember in an old AU, they were talking about the taxing nature of how you do constraints versus dimensions. And I wanna say, don't quote me on this, but wanna say like, if you, let's just say you have a bunch of lines and they're dimensioned, which isn't what you're doing here, but if you link them all back to like D11 or whatever, D17, that's more efficient than using the equal constraint because the equal constraint has to like do more checks.
00:24:56
John Saunders
I'm i'm not articulate enough to really, good so there definitely could be some best practices there.
00:24:57
johngrimsmo
Interesting. Okay. yeah yeah
00:25:03
John Saunders
I also would consider, can this be extruded into a solid?
00:25:10
johngrimsmo
ah Yeah.
00:25:12
John Saunders
So sometimes I'll do, when I get messy stuff, I'll get it extruded into a solid and then I'll reproject it as a new sketch, break the link and then trim it there. and That's way easier.
00:25:21
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Why is that faster? It's the same thing.
00:25:23
John Saunders
We need to find, I mean, you can find somebody from Autodesk. um I'm sure if you're not, I'm happy to help. Who can talk to you about this stuff? I don't know.
00:25:30
johngrimsmo
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, because I've ended up doing that too. And you just sometimes I'll even copy the whole sketch and paste it into a new sketch and it's faster.
00:25:37
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:25:39
johngrimsmo
I'm like, huh?
00:25:40
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:25:41
johngrimsmo
I don't know.
00:25:41
John Saunders
Yeah. I don't know.
00:25:43
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:25:44
John Saunders
There's probably more baggage than we realize. Patterning obviously helps a ton when you can. don't know if you can, the pattern the dragon scale.
00:25:51
johngrimsmo
No, it's all random.
00:25:52
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:25:52
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:25:53
John Saunders
Yeah. Sorry.
00:25:56
johngrimsmo
Yeah, that's fine. And then another thing, i infusion, like my Rask current file is up to V600, something like that, right?
00:26:05
John Saunders
Hmm.
00:26:07
johngrimsmo
And um i've run into this before. My old Norseman program got up to V900 something, and it was just slow all the time. And then I think it was Rob that was like, just save it as a new file because every time it opens, it thinks of all those other ones or something like that.
00:26:21
johngrimsmo
What do you know about that?
00:26:22
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:26:24
John Saunders
I don't other than we've gotten some to probably four or 500 and then we just, it makes more sense to, it actually feels like it's a healthy thing to rev one up, um put it into an archive folder.
00:26:34
johngrimsmo
Kind of,
00:26:37
John Saunders
Yeah, move on.
00:26:39
johngrimsmo
yeah.
00:26:40
John Saunders
Fusion to a script makes that easy to do.
00:26:42
johngrimsmo
That's great.
00:26:42
John Saunders
I'm trying to do some housekeeping this morning. I'm trying to bulk move folders. i can't figure out a way to bulk move the folders.
00:26:46
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:26:46
John Saunders
I'm like, you gotta be, you gotta be kidding me.
00:26:48
johngrimsmo
Mm-hmm.
00:26:49
John Saunders
I am going to look into that and happy to report back. But even on the, whatever, the website version of Fusion, like the A360, I can't figure it out.
00:26:52
johngrimsmo
Cool.
00:26:56
johngrimsmo
Yeah, yeah. Have you asked the Fusion LLM?
00:27:00
John Saunders
Oh, that's a great point. I i was about to ask Seth Medore, which is another version of the Fusion LLM.
00:27:02
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:27:05
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:27:07
John Saunders
But ah yeah.
00:27:08
johngrimsmo
Yeah, I actually used it this past week for, um because we almost never share files with anybody else, but say I wanted to share a specific file with you.
00:27:15
John Saunders
Sure. Yeah.
00:27:17
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:27:17
johngrimsmo
And so I asked the Fusion AI, I was like, okay, so how do I share a specific single file with a user? Do I have to make them a part of my work group team plan, whatever it is?
00:27:27
John Saunders
Team Hub.
00:27:27
johngrimsmo
Yeah, team hub, or can it just be this one specific file?
00:27:28
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:27:30
johngrimsmo
And the cool thing with that is obviously it has full access to Fusion's documentation. which is amazing and it has enough visibility into my account to see how my team hub is structured and things like that so if i want to link you on a single end use file not on a folder or a project or a team or whatever and uh i forget what the answer was because i didn't really care that much but i was kind of curious
00:27:53
John Saunders
Yeah. Yeah.
00:27:55
johngrimsmo
but it was helpful it was slower than chat gpt but i pay a little bit for chat gpt so maybe that's why but fine took 30 seconds or something
00:27:55
John Saunders
That's a good way to play around with it
00:28:07
John Saunders
it. Yeah. Will you mention the precision microcast email?
00:28:12
johngrimsmo
um Yes. So immediately after we hung up the podcast last week, you sent an email to Josh and Adam and Adam got right back. And and the email was basically like, Hey, we miss you guys. Hope there's another episode.
00:28:24
johngrimsmo
And they're like, yeah, we just, we sat down last week and we, you know, chatted about having another episode with Cyrus as well. And so it sounds like it's coming back, which is good.
00:28:31
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:28:33
johngrimsmo
So I'm glad and you i'm glad you made that contact.
00:28:34
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:28:35
johngrimsmo
It's good.
00:28:36
John Saunders
I hope we're not spoiling their news, but I also maybe a little peer pressure and also apologies to Cyrus.
00:28:39
johngrimsmo
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
00:28:41
John Saunders
I forgot that he had become a official.
00:28:42
johngrimsmo
I didn't know really.
00:28:44
John Saunders
I think they mentioned, Oh, you're still catching up, right?
00:28:46
johngrimsmo
I'm still catching up. He's in the last episode or two. And it wasn't until I saw those titles that i was like, no way. Okay. I got to get there. So I'm on
Dragon Scale Engraving for Blade Show
00:28:53
johngrimsmo
episode three ish, something like that out of 20 or something.
00:28:57
John Saunders
What, what do you use to listen to podcasts?
00:29:00
johngrimsmo
Spotify.
00:29:01
John Saunders
Yeah, I'm getting, maybe I'm getting grumpy, but I hate Spotify partly because sometimes i'm in the middle of a podcast, I want to listen to music and it messes it makes me move around.
00:29:10
johngrimsmo
Hmm.
00:29:13
John Saunders
And I switched over to Apple Podcasts and it stinks. And so then I found I'm trying out one right now called Overcast because I'm like so...
00:29:24
John Saunders
annoyed that these companies, Apple and Spotify keep pushing stuff like, no, I want, I subscribe to these six podcasts. Just show me the latest episode. I don't want you spamming me with this stuff.
00:29:35
johngrimsmo
Okay,
00:29:36
John Saunders
Um, anyway, my rant.
00:29:42
John Saunders
Uh, Oh yeah, please.
00:29:42
johngrimsmo
um okay I'll finish the sketch thing. So the drag the dragon scale pattern, the whole reason for doing this is i met an engraver at Blade Show last year that does hand engravings like with the pneumatic gravers, you know, that vibrate and kind of go. And I met a few of them, but this guy Chip,
00:29:59
johngrimsmo
his he His name is Chip, and so he's he's chipped metal.
00:30:02
John Saunders
What a great name. Yeah, right?
00:30:05
johngrimsmo
And he posted an engraving that he did, which as he moves it in the light, it shimmers.
00:30:05
John Saunders
Hilarious.
00:30:12
johngrimsmo
like And they're dragon scales, a different pattern.
00:30:14
John Saunders
Legit.
00:30:15
johngrimsmo
like He made it himself. But I'm like, our dragon scale looks almost exactly like that. In my head, I'm like, what if I sent Chip some more dragon scale handles and had him do work his magic on it, maybe have it done for Blade Show? And so I sent him a message real quick and he's all excited and he's like, I got a lot of things lined up for blade show, but yeah, I think I can squeeze it in if you get me handles soon enough.
00:30:33
johngrimsmo
So I'm like, okay, let's go. And what he likes to do, like our dragon scale fades off the end of the handles, like all the way off the end, the line engraves, you know, off the side. um He inset his hand designed engraving to have a border on the outside that was like less than an eighth of an inch thick.
00:30:50
johngrimsmo
So it looks really cool. You have this contrast of silver on the outside with an engraved dragon scale inset. And i was like, yeah, that shouldn't be too hard. I'm five hours in to getting this done on my, on my sketch.
00:31:00
John Saunders
Oh my gosh. Sorry. Yeah.
00:31:02
johngrimsmo
I'm done now, but, um, part of which is the slowness and part of which is just fiddling and trying to figure out what I want.
00:31:05
John Saunders
that's annoying.
00:31:09
johngrimsmo
But, um, and then you have to go into cam you have to select every single line cause it's not easy. Um, And I wanna make sure I'm climb milling around the outside of each scale so I'm not dragging and you know conventional milling, because then it looks better.
00:31:24
johngrimsmo
So a little minute things like that. But what the diffraction grading part of it is, first I'll explain what it is, and then I'll explain what I think he's doing. his handle shimmered in the light and i literally had to text him and ask him i was like dude what is happening in that light like did you did you scratch it in different directions did you use different grits or grains or whatever and he basically implied that it was a a diffraction grating so imagine having a super super fine engraving tip and just causing i think linear lines on one little dragon scale
00:31:59
johngrimsmo
and then rotate and then do linear lines in a different direction call it 30 degrees off in this next dragon scale and there's you know 50 on the handle so that each individual shimmery scale of the dragon diffracts light in a different way like it reflects light from the source to your eyeball in different ways so it looks like it absolutely shimmers and moves and and
00:32:18
John Saunders
um really well
00:32:23
johngrimsmo
You know, you look at it in one angle and four of them are lit up and then you change it and eight of the other ones are lit up and it just moves and shimmers. And I was like, okay, I know this is going to be stupid expensive. We actually haven't talked about price yet, but all that price is getting passed to the customer who ends up buying it anyway.
00:32:37
johngrimsmo
So i don't really care if we call got hundreds or a thousand bucks or something, somebody is going to want it.
00:32:39
John Saunders
Sounds pretty cool. Yeah.
00:32:43
johngrimsmo
And, uh, And if timing works out and I get the handles back before blade show and my interferometer happens to be ready, and I'll be able to scan these diffraction lines, like just to see you what he's actually doing.
00:32:50
John Saunders
no Yeah.
00:32:55
johngrimsmo
Like, yeah, so that's going to be really cool.
00:32:57
John Saunders
Awesome.
00:32:58
johngrimsmo
Yeah. So that's exciting.
00:32:59
John Saunders
I can't believe you're talking. i mean, I guess it does make sense. Play shows in June.
00:33:02
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Which is like tomorrow almost, especially because California trip is coming up in short weeks.
00:33:07
John Saunders
Yes. And you promise not to wait to ship everything to Blade Show.
00:33:13
johngrimsmo
Correct.
00:33:14
John Saunders
We talked about this a year ago, like there's a drop dead date.
00:33:16
johngrimsmo
Exactly.
00:33:17
John Saunders
you sounds like you're already fudging, moving that data low. Sure.
00:33:20
johngrimsmo
Well, the, yeah, exactly in my head, cause the date was a month early and I'm like, well, I don't know.
00:33:25
John Saunders
ah
00:33:26
johngrimsmo
We, now that we have the customs broker in place, like that eliminates 90% of the headache from before. Um, but there's still hassle for sure.
00:33:36
John Saunders
Yeah, that sounds awesome. I'd love to see a picture of you. Are you?
00:33:39
johngrimsmo
Oh yeah. I'll be posting this stuff for sure.
00:33:40
John Saunders
Okay, okay, sweet.
00:33:42
johngrimsmo
Oh,
00:33:42
John Saunders
And then yeah, to timing that tying that in with measuring or like some so analysis of that was super cool.
00:33:48
johngrimsmo
Yep. Yep. I mean, hopefully he'll be okay with that. I don't want to like share his secrets, but I want to also, um, this is a guy who's not using AI to engrave these.
00:33:51
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:33:58
John Saunders
Yes.
00:33:59
johngrimsmo
Like, you know, he's an actual artist and he's actually hand drawing these first. And then he goes in for hours and hours and hours under a loop and a microscope, graving these parts.
00:34:08
John Saunders
Right.
00:34:08
johngrimsmo
It's like, I want to accentuate this and make it as cool as humanly possible. Cause it's a dying art and it's fantastic. Right.
00:34:17
John Saunders
It's like, uh, you can show me everything you need to know on black glass blowing.
00:34:17
johngrimsmo
So,
00:34:19
John Saunders
Like I still ain't going to be able to make the face. Sorry.
00:34:21
johngrimsmo
Exactly, exactly.
00:34:22
John Saunders
I'm I cut you off.
00:34:23
johngrimsmo
Yep. No, that's good. yeah Those are my two things.
00:34:28
John Saunders
Sweet. Um, it is 10 year anniversary tomorrow in this shop.
00:34:33
johngrimsmo
In this shop? Wow.
00:34:34
John Saunders
Isn't that crazy? Um, you know, poof, that was crazy. Um, we, I, know
00:34:41
johngrimsmo
Wait, I'm trying to remember what it's called. ah Hustle. What was it with the Hummer? Hustle something?
00:34:49
John Saunders
Freedom Huddle.
00:34:49
johngrimsmo
Freedom Huddle.
00:34:50
John Saunders
Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:34:53
johngrimsmo
got this big, huge shop. you didn't really You put like a Tormac in the corner of it.
00:34:57
John Saunders
Yeah, and a Hummer.
00:34:58
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:34:58
John Saunders
no Yeah, yeah. It was, it's crazy. I mean, we're, Serena's gonna redo our racking. We're getting these new machines in. We've been using the 3D print shop layout thing every, twice a day to like look at scenarios.
00:35:06
johngrimsmo
Good.
00:35:08
John Saunders
um Yeah, it's
Shop Anniversary and Reorganization
00:35:11
John Saunders
been fun.
00:35:11
johngrimsmo
That's good, man.
00:35:12
John Saunders
house I'm gonna, I was gonna give up my office and move into a office like one quarter of the size, cause i don't care. and
00:35:18
johngrimsmo
Yeah. or you were going to split it in a half, you thought.
00:35:21
John Saunders
Yeah, and then we ended using our vestibule. This is super boring, but ah I was kind of like the space I'm in, a butt set office that used to be, it's kind of like a generic three print room, storage room, that could be connected to the shop. I'm like, this could be a whole new, like we could have the Okamoto in here, or the five axis even, um and that's better use space.
00:35:34
johngrimsmo
Wow.
00:35:37
John Saunders
Like I don't need a big office.
00:35:37
johngrimsmo
Interesting.
00:35:39
John Saunders
So it is kind of jump ball.
00:35:40
johngrimsmo
Yeah, because as I remember, you had, i mean, a decent amount of office space with the conference room and the the the training room, like, oh the whatever it's called, which is Yeah, that's what I thought.
00:35:49
John Saunders
Yep. Training room is now has been shipping for a long time.
00:35:53
johngrimsmo
But sort of yeah.
00:35:54
John Saunders
Yeah, we'll figure it the um We were bummed we were losing prime on our brother, coolant pump, definitely struggling overnight and like failing on Monday morning when off.
00:36:08
johngrimsmo
Regular high pressure pump?
00:36:10
John Saunders
I don't remember. Not my, sorry.
00:36:12
johngrimsmo
Right.
00:36:13
John Saunders
i don't know.
00:36:13
johngrimsmo
We've never had problems with the regular pump, but the high pressure pump ah does, as I don't know, sometimes it gets unhappy. So part of our warmup routine, the the first thing in our warmup routine is to turn on the through spindle coolant for 10 seconds, because if it's going to fail, it's going fail right away.
00:36:27
John Saunders
OK.
00:36:30
johngrimsmo
So the second the guy hits cycle start on warmup, he sees it fail and he's there to fix it.
00:36:34
John Saunders
Checking it. OK.
00:36:35
johngrimsmo
And then once it primes once, it seems to be good for the day.
00:36:38
John Saunders
Yes. So you are right. It is the TSC pump, which would be the quote unquote high pressure. Um, but, um, and we, we've heard from you and others that this is kind of a thing and it shouldn't be a thing. Like, come on, this is not like, this should not be a thing. And so it ends up, it looks like it was just poorly installed fittings, like loose fittings. The Teflon tape got shoved down instead of being in place. Which is a good outcome. I actually had on my list to ask you last week when we were not sure um what was causing it and I'm happy about that.
00:37:12
John Saunders
Well, I had another thing um that I'm planning to do that I think
Coolant Maintenance and EcoClean System
00:37:19
John Saunders
is great. Like I think I really like this idea. There might be something I'm being blind to.
00:37:25
John Saunders
Let's say every year we want to have So let's say every, we want every machine to have its coolant tank emptied at least once per year, cleaned, and then the coolant can be put back in, presupposing the coolant's okay.
00:37:37
John Saunders
And it usually should be. Most of the times our coolant can last for sure two to three years.
00:37:41
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Yeah.
00:37:42
John Saunders
Here's my plan. We have a Freddy. We're gonna get a new empty IBC tote that will keep we'll keep it nice. We walk up to a machine, we use the Freddy to empty the coolant from the tank into the tote.
00:37:56
John Saunders
that means the Freddie is also, it filters it, but it also means the Freddie can be then empty and free. We then keep a permanent, I'm thinking like 30 gallons because I don't need 50, like a 30 gallon tank of QualiChem EcoClean.
00:38:11
John Saunders
So like a mixture of EcoClean stuff, we then can cycle that through, I'm sorry, before we do that, we can physically clean the tank, which is I actually really enjoy when I'm not busy. Like it's actually fun for me. It is. But you're scraping the sediment out, wiping down what you want. Power wash if you want.
00:38:29
John Saunders
um Then you could cycle EcoClean through it, which is just really nice too. it has a mild biocide in it, just flushing through your pipes, all that. And then you can use a Freddy to suck the EcoClean back out.
00:38:40
John Saunders
Put it back in the 30-gallon barrel because the EcoClean should last a while.
00:38:42
johngrimsmo
Keep it. and
00:38:45
John Saunders
I understand at some point it may become need to be paid
00:38:48
johngrimsmo
EcoClean, it's a coolant mixture as well? Or it's pure EcoClean?
00:38:51
John Saunders
It's a cleaner. It's a cleaner. Yeah, it's a cleaner. That's
00:38:54
johngrimsmo
You're not mixing it with Qualicum and water. You're mixing it EcoClean and water. That's it.
00:38:58
John Saunders
correct.
00:38:59
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:38:59
John Saunders
Yep, yep.
00:39:00
johngrimsmo
Yeah, we have it.
00:39:00
John Saunders
I think you...
00:39:00
johngrimsmo
I've never done it myself. don't know.
00:39:01
John Saunders
I think you can put some eco clean in your coolant if you need to, for some reason, but this would just be 30 gallons of sort of permanent cleaner that we don't need to pay to dispose of every time we use it, we can keep using it.
00:39:04
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:39:13
johngrimsmo
Fair.
00:39:14
John Saunders
Um, then you can go back to the Freddie and the IVC toe and put that, uh, original court back in the tank.
00:39:14
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:39:22
John Saunders
Um, it's been filtered a second time then as well, I think, um,
00:39:25
johngrimsmo
Okay, so you're not you're not long-term storing more coolant. You're just kind of temporarily IBC toting it for a day or an hour, whatever you need.
00:39:33
John Saunders
we
00:39:35
johngrimsmo
And you're you're kind of long-term storaging the eco stuff, which is it sounds like a great idea to me.
00:39:35
John Saunders
correct
00:39:41
John Saunders
yep bingo yeah well why two you go clean it's gonna be like 30 gallons like literally like a little pony keg or something we don't need uh 250 gallons for sure
00:39:41
johngrimsmo
So that system requires two IBC totes. It sounds like they should be stacked on top of each other. And then one for the coolant, one for the eco clean?
00:39:55
johngrimsmo
Got it. Yeah. is that no Is that enough to pump through a machine? Hmm.
00:40:01
John Saunders
we We think so because the our big boy machines are more tolerant of low coolant levels for that. And then the Haas is one, a higher coolant level, but those Haas tanks are either 50, most of them are 55 gallons. One, have a couple of hundred gallons.
00:40:14
John Saunders
If I have to do a 50 high gallon barrel, so be it. But, um, I'm trying to get away from, you know, it's like four or $5 a gallon to pay for waste coolant. I can't afford to do that every time we want to use EcoClean through a machine.
00:40:25
johngrimsmo
Sounds good.
00:40:26
John Saunders
um But I realized, no, this should be fine. And we will, that will also still let us keep the coolant segregated. So like if we are cleaning the VF2, that coolant still goes back in the VF2. We don't end up with much or any cross-contamination.
00:40:43
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:40:43
johngrimsmo
I like it. Sounds like a good good plan.
00:40:45
John Saunders
Thank you. Right? Like what am I missing? um You can, good.
00:40:49
johngrimsmo
Yeah, i mean. work workflow storage space of extra IBC tote. And that's why I was thinking of stacking it because then you get the vertical, you know, EcoClean is stacked on top of maybe a mini IBC tote on top of the bigger one or something. i don't know.
00:41:04
John Saunders
Yeah, you're right.
00:41:05
johngrimsmo
Then you have this pallet jack cell of like, oh, bring over the coolant exchange system.
00:41:05
John Saunders
feel like our biggest,
00:41:10
John Saunders
yeah.
00:41:13
John Saunders
No, that is a good point because I'll, I need to figure out what our biggest tank is. Cause I need to be able to empty our biggest tank, but it's probably not an IBC tote, which means I could then potentially get something different that then has a pallet that has that and the ego clean barrel in it as well.
00:41:27
John Saunders
That'd be sweet.
00:41:27
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:41:29
John Saunders
Okay. Um, thank you.
Balancing Work and Personal Interests
00:41:34
John Saunders
Uh, I need a day off, which I I've been taking Thursdays off, um, usually for personal stuff, but, um I'm going to come in tomorrow and just catch up on a bunch of stuff that I want to do.
00:41:45
John Saunders
Like really the proverbial spring cleaning, if you will. And I share that just cause I think it's something that I need to be being a day off in the shop.
00:41:50
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Yeah.
00:41:54
John Saunders
Yep. Yep.
00:41:58
John Saunders
uh fun okay two well a fail and two fun notes fail is a shot vr really big shout out to couple folks uh including robbie i think who had sent in some really good instructions to get um like a fusion model which we already have expert as an obj bring it into steam a vr viewer with the oculus and i got all the way there at home and then the computer i was doing on was like, oh, this computer is not powerful enough.
00:42:22
johngrimsmo
Really?
00:42:22
John Saunders
I was just like, this is just not worth it. And so my takeaway is reminding myself when you got to call it. Like, I don't need this. We have the 3D print Lego model layout. It would have been cool, but I wish it worked.
00:42:34
John Saunders
I really do. But sorry, I need to say no.
00:42:36
johngrimsmo
Your computer at work is pretty fast.
00:42:39
John Saunders
And I thought about that and I'm like, I could do go install that, bring the Oculus here.
00:42:40
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:42:42
John Saunders
and I'm like, no, John. Sorry, need to say no.
00:42:48
John Saunders
My other habit that I briefly wrote you in on before we hit the record button was ah my son and I were watching, ah watching, pun intended, a wristwatch revival YouTube video.
00:42:59
John Saunders
and We've watched them before.
00:42:59
johngrimsmo
Yes.
00:43:01
John Saunders
And I'm im obviously like aware of automatic watches and so forth.
00:43:04
johngrimsmo
Sometimes they hit different, you know?
00:43:04
John Saunders
don't
00:43:07
John Saunders
So that's why he said I said, don't know why, but like I went from zero to obsessed of like now watching building them and like buying old movements and practicing and like the tools.
00:43:17
John Saunders
So I don't know why John, but like I went hard in like four days.
00:43:21
johngrimsmo
Yup. That was me a year ago.
00:43:23
John Saunders
So, well, that's i remember you and you got into it though.
00:43:27
johngrimsmo
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I bought, you know, two thousand dollars of my own tools and a really beautiful desk, which is now my work desk at home, which is an 18 hundred ss watchmaking desk, like legit watchmakers desk.
00:43:37
John Saunders
Oh, that's cool. Really?
00:43:40
johngrimsmo
Yeah, I really need to make a video on it because my wife found it on Marketplace in Hamilton, hamilton like half an hour away.
00:43:44
John Saunders
Oh.
00:43:46
johngrimsmo
So like my daughter and I rented a U-Haul truck and went and picked it up. And they wanted $1,000.
00:43:50
John Saunders
Yeah, that's awesome.
00:43:51
johngrimsmo
I offered $600. And now it's my desk at home, my work desk. And it's it's phenomenal. It's got all these little drawers and cubbies and things like that. So all my watchmaking stuff is there. But my microscope's on top.
00:44:03
johngrimsmo
And you know the wide-light interferometer kind of microscope vision system.
00:44:08
John Saunders
yeah
00:44:09
johngrimsmo
So that's on my desk right at home. I've got everything within reach. I've got screwdrivers and nail clippers and cameras. files and Sharpies and everything just in little drawers. I don't have to move anything.
00:44:19
John Saunders
Love it.
00:44:21
johngrimsmo
Um, so it's, even though I haven't really touched watchmaking in about six months, it taught me a lot and it kind of set up my work desk, which is now a million times better than the, um, kitchen table that I've always worked at.
00:44:21
John Saunders
Love it.
00:44:34
John Saunders
Yeah. Have you taken apart a movement, repaired them?
00:44:35
johngrimsmo
Um,
00:44:39
johngrimsmo
Not in the past six months, but the watch I'm wearing my now that now that you're into it, I'll show you.
00:44:42
John Saunders
move i remember that one, yeah.
00:44:45
johngrimsmo
So it's an Oris, a 1990s Oris big crown pointer date, which is an automatic has the glass case back.
00:44:48
John Saunders
Okay.
00:44:52
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:44:53
johngrimsmo
And I have had this fully apart and fully lubricated, fully put back together, had to replace a few parts.
00:44:58
John Saunders
Meaning you took out the click spring and the bridges and that.
00:45:00
johngrimsmo
Everything. Yep.
00:45:02
John Saunders
Okay, yeah, that's legit, John.
00:45:02
johngrimsmo
Yep. Like I lost a screw and as my family's walking by, I'm like, stop, don't just ah just walk around, go around. i don't, I, until I find this screw, nobody's allowed in this area. I'm like shaking out my shirt and stuff.
00:45:13
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:45:14
johngrimsmo
um The tininess of the screws shocked even me. I say that honestly.
00:45:21
John Saunders
I believe you because wristwatch revival does such a good job with his camera lenses.
00:45:24
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Yeah.
00:45:25
John Saunders
And then you'll zoom out sometime and you're like, oh my God, he put a dot of lubricant that looks like a pond in the zoomed in view. And that is, it couldn't be more than a pinhead of lubricant.
00:45:37
johngrimsmo
Yep, exactly. And so even after having watched like 50 of his videos and now I'm taking apart this watch and I lose a screw and I'm like, it's a piece of dust. Where on earth?
00:45:47
johngrimsmo
Like, so I did eventually, it was not far.
00:45:48
John Saunders
Yeah, right. Did you find it?
00:45:51
johngrimsmo
I think it was just under my keyboard or something like that. So like, okay, if you're really doing this, nothing on your desk, like no keyboard, no mouse, no drink glass, no nothing.
00:45:57
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:46:01
johngrimsmo
And that's like Watchmaker 101. fun. it's fun
00:46:05
John Saunders
So my takeaway though is actually, let's sit here pat myself on the back, is okay, you had fun, John, chill. You need to finish Johnny Five, which is like so like going to happen in a minute.
00:46:14
johngrimsmo
yep yes cool oh that's awesome
00:46:17
John Saunders
And I need to get R2 out of the, R2's going to the local library for their grand opening, which will be super exciting. I literally just have to, i installed a Gator Fruit ah Rotary Union for the electronics, forget what those are called.
00:46:31
John Saunders
um That way this dome can rotate infinitely. Yeah. And then it even has the Apple style magnet connectors. So the electronics in the dome mag connect too. So you just lift off this dome and and lift off that magnet and it's like done.
00:46:42
johngrimsmo
oh
00:46:45
johngrimsmo
Dude, that is so cool.
00:46:46
John Saunders
Yeah. So R2, like no joke could be done in like three hours. Get him out of there. I'm building another Donald Judd piece of artwork that is just something I love personally. That shouldn't take more than a couple of days, but it's like, I'm disciplining myself.
00:47:01
John Saunders
Like, okay, you can have fun on your watch thing, but like keep it to YouTube for now.
00:47:01
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:47:04
John Saunders
You can buy the tools later, like sit on it for a week or two.
00:47:06
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Yeah, I did that too. I started the spreadsheet. You know, I'm sure if you haven't started on a spreadsheet, you will soon because it's very easy to impulse buy everything because it's easy to find the first version and then you get it and you're like, well, that's a piece of crap. Like now I need to buy the good one.
00:47:21
John Saunders
I need the Oralogic screwdrivers.
00:47:23
johngrimsmo
Exactly. And, uh, and there are cheap things that are really good and there's cheap things that are really bad. And I've made them, everybody makes that mistake. That's why the the industry for cheap parts is still existing because everybody accidentally buys them.
00:47:33
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:47:34
johngrimsmo
Um, yeah, start your spreadsheet, you know, take, take a stock of what you think you need and all that stuff and take your time on it because it's honestly, it's not something to rush into.
00:47:41
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:47:45
johngrimsmo
Um, And I did, I rushed into it, went hard, got all the stuff.
00:47:50
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:47:51
johngrimsmo
i Clara and I went 50 antique stores last summer. Like no no less.
00:47:57
John Saunders
Dude, that's fun too, your daughter.
00:47:58
johngrimsmo
It was super fun.
00:47:59
John Saunders
yeah.
00:47:59
johngrimsmo
And I, you know, when I was in Atlanta for the second time last summer, I went to like 10 antique stores looking for old watches.
00:47:59
John Saunders
yeah
00:48:06
johngrimsmo
And now that I actually had a need to go to an antique store, it was like fun.
00:48:10
John Saunders
Is it common to see automatic watches in any antique store?
00:48:13
johngrimsmo
um Yeah. Yeah.
00:48:14
John Saunders
Okay, interesting.
00:48:16
johngrimsmo
or even old mechanical wind-up watches, it's still a mechanical watch.
00:48:19
John Saunders
yeah yeah Yeah, sorry, mechanical but not automatic. Right, right.
00:48:21
johngrimsmo
Exactly. And yeah, but all the good ones are taken pretty much. Like it's it's hard to find a really good deal.
00:48:26
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:48:28
johngrimsmo
But anyway, we had super fun last year and and I went hard. And then the past six months I've done basically nothing watchmaking. So I kind of did that, you know, got over the hump and now now it's all there waiting for me, which I love.
00:48:42
johngrimsmo
And it's like, no, no, it's like my old Volvo Amazon.
00:48:42
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:48:45
johngrimsmo
Like I haven't touched in a little bit, but it's there and I will get to it.
00:48:48
John Saunders
It's there yet.
00:48:49
johngrimsmo
And yeah.
00:48:51
John Saunders
There is some truth to that and certainly hits hard for me. It's like, it's the journey, not the destination. Like now that R2's done, i don't really care about him anymore. i hate to say that. And just into some extent, Johnny five, that's not true.
00:48:59
johngrimsmo
yep
00:49:02
John Saunders
I love him and he's cool. And you get that endorphin hit when people get, see him and light up. But like, I like the building. So I've started to already think about that with the watches.
00:49:08
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:49:10
John Saunders
Like, I don't care. I'm zero interested in the vanity of the watch. I'm only interested in like becoming decent at like playing with the tools, which is like, what do you want to do John?
00:49:21
John Saunders
Do you want to like start repairing watches on the side and flipping them? like No, I don't think so.
00:49:24
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:49:25
John Saunders
But like what does this actually look like?
00:49:26
johngrimsmo
I don't think so, you say.
00:49:27
John Saunders
Yeah, right.
00:49:28
johngrimsmo
I have the same answer.
00:49:29
John Saunders
Yeah, anyway.
00:49:30
johngrimsmo
The answer is no. But yeah, what does this actually look like?
00:49:31
John Saunders
Thanks for indulging me.
00:49:34
johngrimsmo
And so I've bought less than 10 old watches last year.
00:49:39
John Saunders
Really?
00:49:40
johngrimsmo
The only expensive one that I wear every day, I paid 350 bucks for this Aorus.
00:49:44
John Saunders
Yeah. Which is awesome.
00:49:45
johngrimsmo
It was just cheap and I put a little bit of parts into it. It needed a crystal and one spring lever, something, I forget.
00:49:51
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:49:53
johngrimsmo
And I've worn it for six months and every time I look at it, I love it. And there's things I don't like about it and I'm looking forward to the next watch.
00:49:57
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:50:00
johngrimsmo
And we as a company, or at least me within my own company, will be making a watch at some point.
00:50:07
John Saunders
I remember saying that. That's cool.
00:50:08
johngrimsmo
Like it's it's happening, but now is not the time.
00:50:10
John Saunders
Yeah. Understood. Understood. Good. I'm off next week. We're on spring break with the kids. So I'll see you on that, whatever it'll air April 10th, I think.
00:50:17
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:50:21
johngrimsmo
We had our spring break last week.
00:50:23
John Saunders
Good. You have a good time? or you Good.
00:50:24
johngrimsmo
um
00:50:25
John Saunders
trueberg
00:50:26
johngrimsmo
Yeah, we just stayed at home. It's nice and quiet, though. Good time with the kids.
00:50:30
John Saunders
Awesome.
00:50:30
johngrimsmo
Okay, well, enjoy. And okay, let me just look at the calendar real quick because I have a question. So if you're off, what, April 1st record?
00:50:36
John Saunders
Okay. Yeah. Correct. We'll record on the 8th.
00:50:40
johngrimsmo
ah
00:50:41
John Saunders
Normally we do this privately, but you all get to chime in.
00:50:43
johngrimsmo
What a minute. Well, that's what i'm saying. The very next week, we're in Mammoth.
00:50:48
John Saunders
No, we're in Mammoth the 15th.
00:50:49
johngrimsmo
Which is the next week.
00:50:52
John Saunders
I'm sorry. We'll record on the 8th.
00:50:53
johngrimsmo
Got it. Yeah, we're skipping the first. We'll record on the 8th. And then the 15th, I don't know what we're going to do.
00:50:59
John Saunders
We could do something in person, I'm sure.
00:51:00
johngrimsmo
Maybe. But I don't know if I want to upload it from there.
00:51:03
John Saunders
Fair enough. We'll figure it out.
00:51:04
johngrimsmo
but Maybe. Okay. We'll see. But anyway. Man, that's getting close.
00:51:08
John Saunders
I know. I'm excited.
00:51:08
johngrimsmo
Okay. Yeah.
00:51:09
John Saunders
It'll be good to see you. It's been a while.
00:51:10
johngrimsmo
It will. It's been a long time.
00:51:12
John Saunders
Good.
00:51:12
johngrimsmo
right, man. have a good day.
00:51:13
John Saunders
right, take care. i'll see you.