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#87 Brian Ó hÁonghusa: Exploring nutrition, psychology, and health
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In this episode, I sit down with Brian Ó hÁonghusa, a qualified nutritionist and coach, to explore the fascinating intersection of nutrition and cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT).
We dive into Brian’s approach to helping clients with body composition, sports performance, IBS management, and disordered eating patterns, including binge eating and emotional eating. Brian explains how he integrates CBT to tackle severe eating disorders, body image concerns, and the psychological aspects of behavior change.
We also explore the biopsychosocial model of obesity, dieting challenges, and effective behavior change strategies. Brian shares practical tools like journaling and values-driven actions to help reframe disordered eating and insights into the differences between binge eating and emotional eating.
We then finish the episode by chatting about food anxiety, the cultural factors affecting men's health, and mindful eating techniques for achieving a healthier relationship with food.
Key Questions Discussed in This Episode:
- How does cognitive behavioral therapy help with disordered eating?
- What’s the difference between binge eating and emotional eating?
- What is the biopsychosocial model of obesity?
- How can journaling improve eating habits and mental health?
- How do men experience disordered eating differently?
- What are some effective strategies for managing food anxiety?
- How can mindful eating lead to a balanced approach to health?
Links & Resources:
- The Happiness Trap by Russ Harris: Get the book here
If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with friends who might benefit. For more health tips and updates, follow me on Instagram and TikTok @katehamiltonhealth.
Music by LiQWYD Free download: hypeddit.com/link/xxtopb [http://hypeddit.com/link/xxtopb] Promoted by FreeMusicPromo [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbycji-eySnM3WD8mbxPUSQ] / @freemusicpromo
**If any part of this conversation triggers you, please seek support from a qualified professional. It’s essential to work with someone trained in managing mental health and eating disorders to ensure you get the help you need.**
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Overview
00:00:09
Speaker
Hey, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the Kate Hamilton Health Podcast. So in today's episode, I have a conversation with Brian Ohangaseff. We have the most amazing conversation. Brian is head of coaching at the triage method. And the triage method is a platform dedicated to evidence-based coaching in health, fitness, and nutrition. He works with a lot of clients in relation to disordered eating,
00:00:33
Speaker
eating disorders. And he is currently studying to become a cognitive behavioral therapist and he plans to combine his expertise in all areas to offer really focused coaching and therapy for his clients. So we have the most amazing conversation around his areas of expertise around eating disorder, disordered eating,
00:00:54
Speaker
binge eating, food anxiety, emotional eating. We talk a lot about that. We talk a lot about cognitive behavioral therapy and habits and behavior change. And I really enjoyed this conversation. I really hope you all enjoy it as much as I do. I know you will all enjoy it as much as I did. So without further ado, here is the episode with Brian. Brian, welcome
Brian's Background and Expertise
00:01:15
Speaker
to the podcast. Hey, Kerry, it's good to be here and thank you for having me.
00:01:18
Speaker
I'm excited about this conversation and about picking your brain and getting you to share all of your knowledge with us. Before we get into all of that, would you mind giving us a little bit of an intro to you and what it is that you do?
00:01:31
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. So my name is Bruno Henges. I'm a qualified nutritionist and have been working as a nutrition coach for a good number of years now. What are we, like seven years now? So I'm doing that online for quite a while. And then that would range from like a lot of different goals that clients would have in relation to nutrition and lifestyle. So could be body composition, it could be sports performance. I've then got extra qualifications in terms of IBS management and digestive health. So I do a bit of that. And then over the last few years, I started working with a lot more people who have, say, disordered eating issues, things like binge eating, things like emotional eating. And I really liked working in that space. So I've been doing good work with people in that for
00:02:18
Speaker
A few years now, but then that's also prompted me to go do a master's in cognitive behavior therapy, which I'm currently doing. So I've just started my second year of that of two years. So that's been really good. So as of the lace, I've started to to incorporate that CBT therapy side into my coaching practice and nutrition practice. So it's marrying together quite nicely. And then that was just in the interest of being able to help people with more severe eating disorders, body image concerns, that sort of thing. And that's where I'm at now. So Triage Method is the company I work with when we do like a wide range of coaching services online, as well as education services for professionals. But then there's loads of content that we put out for you know general people as well, just so we can learn more about.
00:03:04
Speaker
health and fitness and how to manage that stuff for themselves. you know It's so interesting that you say the nutrition side, you go into the whole psychology side of things and into cognitive behavioral therapy because it's something that ah I often talk about that I'm like, I want to go back and study for my undergraduate
Coaching vs. Therapy
00:03:20
Speaker
degrees in education. I was a primary school teacher for a long time.
00:03:23
Speaker
And I obviously qualified as personal trainer, nutrition coach, health coach, but I want to study further, but I'm not really sure what direction I want to go in yet. So I kind of leaving it sit until it made sense. And I'm like, I'd love if there was like a degree or a postgraduate degree that like put the science of behavior change and the psychology side of it and like packaged in with nutrition. And but wouldn't it just be amazing if that like existed in one package?
00:03:48
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. It's super interesting and all this stuff. There's so many streams of ah things that are relevant to go into, you know, coaching overall and since doing this masters as well. I've seen like how much overlap there is with like.
00:04:04
Speaker
coaching principles and then also therapy principles. And obviously there's a lot of stuff that's distinctly different, where there's a lot that's very similar, or at least similar to the way I tend to coach people, which would be you know very much person-centered and that kind of thing. Yeah, and I think that when you really start working as a coach and working with people,
00:04:23
Speaker
You learn very quickly, like you hear people say, oh, it's just calories in versus calories out. You know, we're complex creatures. There's so many more layers to it than actually meets the eye. And like, if we all just add a little bit less and moved a little bit more, sure, wouldn't it be great? We'd all be healthy. Everything would be great, but it's so much more complicated and so much deeper than that.
00:04:43
Speaker
yeah But you ever look at the there's a diagram for was of the social model of obesity and it's just an absolute mess of like so many overlapping circles, so many different factors that go into it that it really you know just exemplifies how complicated this stuff is in practice, whereas on paper it's very simple. it's like Yeah, energy balance and on all that, but working with an actual human being is a lot of more that goes into it in terms of what's their unique context, what are the things that they're struggling with, like what's their and a baggage that they've collected along the way, whether that's extreme diets or fat diets or
00:05:27
Speaker
you know, things that have challenged their relationship with food or their relationship with their bodies, like this stuff that I look at more often now as well. But yeah, there's so much that goes into it. And it's about helping the individual in their specific life context, make the changes that, you know, that are going to be most appropriate for them to then, you know, result in say managing energy balance and calories in versus calories out push.
00:05:51
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Because that's literally just the tip of the triangle, like, you know, the final step. you But all the layers that go into it, like and in my own coaching service, it goes into working on mindset and, you know, really establishing behaviors. I know you work with people in a bit more of an extreme situation, but I think as adults, all our behaviors and our actions and our reactions all stem from whatever childhood trauma, basically everything that we've experienced up to the age of seven, eight? What
Behavioral Influences and Coping Mechanisms
00:06:18
Speaker
is it? Seven?
00:06:19
Speaker
I don't know if this is a very definite age, but it's that kind of age range. yeah Like don't they say that our programming, like our subconscious mind, a lot of our subconscious behaviors are formed and how we view the world is formed by the time we're we're seven or eight. We're a sponge up until that age. I remember learning this in college and we're sponge up until this age. And then a lot of our reactive behaviors can be very hard, not impossible, but very hard to unlearn. And then as life goes by and you know, more things happen to us that's like, you know, food.
00:06:50
Speaker
becomes one of those coping strategies for some people, just like drugs or alcohol or other self-destructing behaviours, I suppose. Yeah. And I always say to people, like behavior always serves a purpose. And you know often working with people who have, say, emotional eating is a coping mechanism, try to frame it. They're off fighting with themselves. They've just learned this way to cope with things as best as they can. It's not the most productive or supportive of their longer term goals, but in the moment, it serves a purpose. And it's sort of the best way they know how
00:07:28
Speaker
at this moment in time, but that can change, you know, if we do some work on that. But yeah, if the early childhood stuff is interesting because like, you know, when you're that young, you don't have like appreciation of other people's viewpoints and stuff. So they talk about this a lot in terms of your interpretation of how the world works. It's like, if I'm a good kid, then, you know, good things happen without this consideration of like, well, there's actually a lot of other stuff that will influence your parents being annoyed on a given day or something like this. It's not your fault, but at that age, you take it upon yourself. So it is quite interesting that inner child stuff and schema, I suppose, that they refer to it as as well.
00:08:10
Speaker
I think we could definitely go down and like a rabbit hole and talk about that, which we won't for now. We'll try and keep it a little bit more relevant and practical to what people can take home from this conversation. But in general, like what I like to say to people as well, anyone listening to this who is struggling with binge eating or an eating disorder or emotional eating or different things that that are going on. There's nothing wrong with you. You're not a failure. And it is just a case of getting in touch with the right people to help you on the path. And it takes time. I'm sure you can agree with me that it's it's very doable if you if you're working with the right people to overcome.
00:08:47
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. There's nothing wrong with you not flawed or or broken or anything. You're again, just a human being that's complex and has fallen into these behaviors or coping strategies. And yeah, you just maybe need some guidance to change that or get out of that. But it certainly can be done with the the right type of support and and professional
Understanding Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT)
00:09:10
Speaker
help. And, you know, that's why I chose CBT because it's the most evidence-based treatment for eating disorders like across the board. right So you know if I'm going to do any type of therapy, and it's yeah it's very evidence-based for things like overall mental health conditions, you know depression, anxiety, bush yeah I mostly apply it to
00:09:30
Speaker
like disordered eating or eating disorders, but then if I have a client who's depressed and uses food as a way to try and cope with that, then that's obviously working on the depression is he going to be ah impactful for them in terms of that sort of path that they find stuff results from it.
00:09:48
Speaker
I was going to ask you about CBT later on in the conversation, but I think we'll dive into it now. I actually did CBT myself as as a patient of CBT. Um, when I was in my early twenties, I suffered with chronic anxiety, debilitating panic attacks for a good few years. So I did quite a lot of CBT and it changed my life. Like it really did change my life. So I'm a big fan of CBT, but for anyone who's not really familiar, would you like explain a little bit about first of all, what it stands for and what it entails? I of suppose.
00:10:18
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I'm glad you had a good experience with it, because it was originally designed for depression, anxiety, and in those kind of mood disorders. So that's where most of the the evidence base is for it, which extends to a lot of you know mental health context, which includes eating disorders. So yeah, CBT stands for cognitive behavioral therapy. The name gives a lot of way in terms of how it works. you know So the cognitive aspect, the theory there is that The events create feelings, which can create thoughts, which lead to behaviors. So you imagine those four things on like the points of the compass. It's like, you've got events, feelings, thoughts, behaviors. All of those will interact. So you know you could have something happen to you or some environmental situation, anything like that, which could lead to certain thought patterns, which then lead to feel a certain way, which then cause you to behave a certain way.
00:11:16
Speaker
Bush is sort of a a crossover of all of those four points of the compass. So it's not just like one pathway. It's like, oh, events, thoughts, feelings, behaviors. It's not always in that order. Bush, in terms of CBT, we're looking at intervening on any of those four points of the compass where We want to help people with the thought patterns that might be keeping them stuck or impacting their mood in a negative way, or impacting the thought patterns that might impact their behavior in a negative way. And really, like it's very sort of goals focused as well. So you know if you ever do CBT with a therapist, like there should be some pretty clear goal setting, which, again, is one of the overlaps with, say, coaching, for example.
00:11:57
Speaker
and saying like okay what are you trying to get out of this and it's usually to be able to pursue your goals or the things that are important to you unencumbered by the the difficulties that you're having right so that's a lot of the purpose of it and then we can look at the behavioral strategies which i think is where like if there's a huge amount of overlap in coaching because like a lot of coaching is just behavioral intervention. right So that's what the process looks like. so Some of the sort of classic points of CBT are going to be you know looking at what thought patterns come up and then maybe trying to see what the the core beliefs are that influence those and yeah know where do those come from. But you can keep it quite surface level and then just work on you know improving someone's thought patterns and how they feel in response to certain situations.
00:12:43
Speaker
And then they learn those skills to be able to apply that themselves. And then ultimately build like a better mental health toolbox and and framework for themselves to basically not go around their day-to-day slowdown by the stuff that's dragging them back, whether it's anxiety or whether it's depression or whether it's eating problems. And then there's certain CBT programs developed for, say, eating disorders specifically, which you know has its own approach. And again, a lot of that looks very similar to nutrition coaching in terms of like regular meals across the day, looking at body image work, looking at say perfectionist tendencies or mood influenced effects on on eating, for example, all this stuff goes into it. So yeah, it's super, super practical. And a lot of this, yeah, just about helping people think and feel and behave better in service of their goals, you know,
00:13:39
Speaker
Yeah, no I know when I started with my CBT therapist, now i like I was very young.
Personal Stories and CBT Impact
00:13:45
Speaker
It was the first time I ever questioned my beliefs or the way that I thought. I had certain beliefs about myself, about the world, and I had quite a close mindset. I could only see one outcome of everything.
00:14:02
Speaker
And she just like opened my mind right up to look at things in a whole different perspective. i'll Just to give you an example of this, like my panic attacks were like, I couldn't go about my normal life. It completely turned my life upside down. And at 21 years old, like that's not what you want to do. You know, you're trying trying to be out there living your life and it did hold me back. And I remember saying to her.
00:14:25
Speaker
Like, if this was a couple of hundred years ago, because at the time I was also on serotonin enhancing their medication as well. I was like, if this was 200 years ago, I'd be dead. because I'm weak. And I was like, you know, survival of the fittest. And I've had this belief that I was weak and that there was something wrong with me. And if it wasn't for this medication, that I'd have gone crazy and died, basically. That's literally how I thought. so And now as I say this now, I'm like, that is absolutely insane to think that, but that's what I believed. And I was literally like just torn apart by what was happening to me. And I very much felt like a victim. And she was like,
00:14:59
Speaker
Or 200 years ago, you wouldn't have had the stresses and the lot fast-paced life that you're dealing with now. And this wouldn't even be an issue. And I was like, oh, never thought about it like that. That's just one example. But you know, loads of different things about myself, about life. It was really, I suppose, the start of the journey I've been on ever since. I'm 38 now. So it's been a long journey of just expiration and curiosity. And I challenge my clients and I challenge anyone who's listening to ask yourself,
00:15:28
Speaker
Have you ever questioned what you believe? Have you ever questioned what you think about yourself? yeah And I read a really interesting book and recently called Someone Should Have Told Us by Jack Pransky. Have you heard of it? I don't think so, no.
00:15:44
Speaker
Well, it's really good. But he talked about cots and how the only way, and like, you know, there were, everyone's like, Oh, you think positively, think positively. Like I remember as well, when I was quite anxious, being afraid of negative thoughts. And, you know, below we shouldn't be having negative thoughts. every You know, whereas he's like, there's nothing wrong with having negative thoughts or crazy thoughts or whatever, but it's about you believing them and giving them power. If you can recognize, okay, that thought has happened. I'm going to let it go.
00:16:10
Speaker
does It's the thought you give power to are the ones that become your beliefs. And I thought, wow. Yeah. That's so true and so helpful. Like, so again, talking about practical stuff for people. Definitely like, you know, rewind 30 seconds there, listen to
Mindfulness and ACT Approaches
00:16:27
Speaker
that again. And that's to me, it sounds like the spirit of acceptance and commitment therapy or acts, which I really like as well. And it's sort of, it's referred to as a third wave.
00:16:37
Speaker
CBT, which basically means it's very like CBT, but there's some tweaks to it, and there's a lot of like mindfulness in it as well. But that's, yeah, what you're talking about there in terms of believing the thoughts, and it's something I try to get across to clients in in various ways. so you know, for a thought to be upsetting, it has to be negative and you have to believe it, right? And the example I was using in session is like, okay, guys, if I tell you the world is going to end in five minutes, you know, it's a negative thought, but it has no impact on you because you don't believe it whatsoever. So I encourage people to treat thoughts like opinions, or I use an analogy of like an email inbox.
00:17:19
Speaker
So you know a lot of us obviously work with emails. So you have emails coming in all the time. These are your thoughts. You can read them and see them for what they are, but then you have a choice of what do you do with them. And then I always use this example of like, you know when when the email comes in from the Nigerian prince who wants to share his fortune with you, you know that kind of typical scam that we've all come across.
00:17:42
Speaker
But you don't just say, oh geez, I better hand over all my bank details right away, right? Cause it's like, no, I'm going to see that for what it is, decide what to do with it. I'm not going to act on it. And I'm not going to fuse to it and then let it influence how we feel and behave. So that's what you're speaking to there. I think in terms of yeah, creating that separation and again, view them as opinions and they can be there helpful or unhelpful. And if it's unhelpful, then it's like,
00:18:09
Speaker
Okay, I see that. That's fine, but I'm not going to let it influence my behavior. So it's a really good book on act therapy, which is called the happiness trap. Really easy read, really practical, pretty short read as well. So I really liked that as a recommendation because it covers a lot of like, okay, I have to deal with difficult thoughts, how to deal with difficult feelings. And then there's a huge section in act, which the commitments part of it means like striving for values driven action. So like always trying to move towards what's important to you as a person in terms of your goals and your values. So that's a big section of it too, which again I think overlaps with coaching quite a lot.
00:18:48
Speaker
I think what you're saying there about purpose driven and values driven that you said there, like that very much overlaps with coaching. You know, like one of the first things I'll get my clients to do is develop their why. It's a, why are you on this journey? And it's one thing that a lot of us don't ask ourselves. We don't know what we want. How can you expect to get results when you don't actually know what you want? You think you want something and until you start digging.
00:19:13
Speaker
It's not what you actually want. to I've quite often gone for goals and be like, oh wait, no, I actually don't want this. It changed my mind. And because it's extrinsic. So you really need to get to know yourself and do that reflection and discover who you are and what you like, what you don't like. What are your thoughts on journaling in relation to that?
00:19:32
Speaker
Yeah, because in journaling is grace has a lot of utility for clarifying thoughts and feelings. And you know, it did, it worked really well for like, especially some of the but CBT exercises you might get people to do or to like, you know, write down the thoughts that they're having and then just sort of.
00:19:49
Speaker
be curious about them and where they come from, bush, things like value setting, exercises are super helpful to do early on in the coaching process, which is like what you're alluding to there with establishing, you know, what's your why and it's like, what things are important to you in light is the value side of things. and then With that knowledge and awareness, then you can decide, okay, what kind of goals can I create so from those? And the difference between a value and a goal is that like a value is never ticked off, like never completed. And there's always a way to engage with it, even if it's maybe not to the level that you want. There's always some way to to do it in terms of like health values or fitness values. such you know even if
00:20:33
Speaker
you're not doing as much as you want to do something. But no, German can be quite therapeutic and in terms of just getting stuff out on paper in terms of, all right, how am I currently feeling? What am I thinking about? It's a lot easier to do that stuff when it's written down in front of you versus trying to do it all up in your own head. And that would be quite drawn to gratitude journaling as well as a sort of a way to support mental health because it could just be really useful or use different forms of that, especially for the body image side of things. So it's shown that like in terms of improving body image, you can use what they, you know, their phrase is like body functionality appreciation. But the way I phrase that question in in client check-ins is like,
00:21:16
Speaker
pick one thing that you're grateful for in relation to your body and the life that you've lived through it, right? Because if you consider that everything you've ever experienced in life has been through your body and in some shape or form, right? And this extends to maybe the five senses and just imagine what life would be like if you didn't have any of those five senses or didn't have any of them at all. You couldn't give someone a hug, you couldn't see a sunset, taste and nice food, all this sort of thing. stuff though that's just sort of deviating in some of the gratitude aspects that ties in with, say, body image support as well, you know, in developing more positive body image.
Body Image and Values Alignment
00:21:56
Speaker
It's shown to be effective, you know, to look at that body appreciation as like, what can my body do versus just what shape is it and what size is this and how heavy is it, you know what I mean?
00:22:08
Speaker
That's an absolute mindset game changer. And it's something that I i know from experience takes time. And I would imagine for some people seems nearly impossible so much so that that there's plenty of women or men out there listening.
00:22:23
Speaker
that hate even looking at themselves in the mirror. They have an extremely negative relationship with their body, with themselves. And I do believe that starting there with what is my body doing for me? And that was a huge thing for me as well with my own body image on bad habits and behaviours that I would have had growing up. Like, isn't my body amazing what it can do despite everything I've put it through?
00:22:47
Speaker
And in a non-guilty way, and I don't mean that in a guilty way, I mean it in a positive way, but I think but even that slight bit of, you know, if you're like, oh, but like ah I'm using my body or, i'm you know, whatever it is, by first of all, I recognize that I'm doing this to my body and I'm now able to appreciate my body for what it's doing despite it. I think that's a really good place to start. I agree.
00:23:08
Speaker
And just wanted to know that I made while you were talking, when we were talking about like goals and actions and values, really, really important to, I suppose, evaluate your habits, evaluate your actions, you know, and like with this, it comes back to like reflection or journaling as well. What you're doing every day, does it actually line up with your values, with what you do hold strong, what you think is really important? Or are your goals something that you just think you should have like,
00:23:35
Speaker
are you just trying to get super lean for a photo shoot because everyone else is getting super lean for a photo shoot lately and you feel like it's something that you should do, is that something that's not actually that important to you and you'd much rather focus on you know health and sports performance? or you know What are your values? Are your goals lining up with that when you're setting goals? and If you're someone listening who doesn't really have any goals at the minute and is just living quite a reactive life at the minute and your habits are your habits and you're just, you're so busy, you don't even have time to fucking think about it. Are your actions lining up at what you've truly believed? Because isn't that where?
00:24:10
Speaker
that feeling inside of, you know, that sheer unhappiness comes from with that disconnect really. While I think of it, I'll just ask you this question and I'll leave you to reflect on what I've said. But if someone doesn't currently value health, can that change? Can you program yourself to value something that you don't currently value?
00:24:30
Speaker
Yeah, values are not this in Stalin, you know, and that they can never change. They definitely can change, and it's up to you to make a decision as to what's important to you, Bush. You do have to make that switch, because if you're going to say that I don't value health right now,
00:24:48
Speaker
then that's just that. And then your behaviors will reflect that. So in those situations, like it's kind of it an odd conversation to have, like hypothetically, like to have with somebody that, oh, I don't value health, but I want to value health. But if they want to value health, then they probably do value fish. Or do you believe that everyone values their health and they're just a bit lost and separated from us?
00:25:10
Speaker
That's a good question. I've worked with people in the past, not very many, but that haven't valued health at a given time. And to be honest, I find that very hard to work with because it was surely like aesthetically driven, like weight loss goals, but with no consideration given to like, how am I going to go about that?
00:25:35
Speaker
because they just didn't care about the health aspect. And I found that very challenging to work with with somebody on, and this person had to sort it eating as well, which is in the mix. But they did eventually make the decision that they wanted to prioritize health because they experienced some negative effects of not looking after their health, which then led to them changing that value to say, OK, this is actually something that is important to me now. And it's not just about being in a smaller body.
00:26:04
Speaker
But yeah, it can be quite challenging. And I think people can change their values for sure. And it starts to get maybe a bit messy when there's, like say, competing motivations. you know So some have made the decision they want to eat healthy now. but They're on board with that. But maybe they have emotional eating issues that they're yeah using that to deal with something. So there is an acute motivation to feel better, which makes them ease or binge.
00:26:33
Speaker
to provide some degree of escape or distraction from whatever they're coping with. That's obviously challenges the the other motivation of like, you know, I want to take care of myself. I want to eat well. So on that point, you often hear people talk about lacking motivation or lacking willpower. And so it's not, I don't view it that way. I view it as There are just always competing motivations, you know, so I can be motivated so to eat this cake right now because I know it's going to taste nice, like, aside from any sort of emotional yeah connotations or whatever, just fairly basic, like, it's going to taste nice. So I'm motivated to have the tasty cake, but then I'm also motivated to, you know.
00:27:14
Speaker
do well in my nutrition habits in the longer term. So there can be those kind of short term motivations and then and longer term motivations, but then getting clarity on the values and then setting behavior goals around those is super important. And like you said, you said there a few minutes ago, like, you know, if you're listening to this and you don't have like specific goals, like that's fine. You could still do the values assessment exercise and say, okay, what's actually important to me? And then set up behavior goals as opposed to outcome goals. You have behavior goals, just something you do on a daily or a weekly basis or whatever it is that is in service of that value.
00:27:53
Speaker
So, you know, you don't have to have a specific outcome in mind where it's like there's a finish line to cross necessarily, but you can always be engaging in that value by setting goals around it that are behavior-based. Yeah, so if you've goals around or values around friendship relationships, for example, then behavior goals with that are going to be like setting certain amounts of of time aside to meet friends or trying to make an effort with that stuff. And there's no like ticking a box there really. Well, there kind of is, but I mean, there's no finish line in terms of like, oh yeah, when I get to this point, then I've completed the friendship relationship goal. Like that doesn't happen. But if it's a value, you can set up behavior goals that will be in service of that. And that'll go for all your, all your values, but it's cute.
00:28:39
Speaker
Yeah. And it makes it so much more fulfilling as well. That feeling inside when you're doing something that is working towards something that's important to you. But I think that it could be very easy for us to forget in the moment. And I think this is, you know, the instant gratification, like you're saying with a piece of cake that tastes really good. Like, oh shit, I forgot that I wanted to lose weight. or that in the morning time when you're supposed to get up for that early morning run, that you're training for your marathon or whatever. And maybe it's just you're training for a couch to 5K and you plan to get up early and at 6 o'clock in the morning, it's very easy to forget and roll over and go back to sleep. Little things like that. I think tools like writing these things out and putting them somewhere that you could see them every day beside your bed. I find like your wardrobe door, the inside of your wardrobe door is a nice bit of private place to have things like this written. And it doesn't have to be a big detail thing, but just like a trigger word to remind you. So.
00:29:26
Speaker
thus it that that it's easier to remember to do the behaviour-related goals. Yeah, definitely. It's a great idea. Anyway, look, I want to talk a little bit about disordered eating, but to talk a little bit like with binge eating, food anxiety, emotional eating.
Eating Behaviors Spectrum
00:29:42
Speaker
well First of all, what's the difference between binge eating and emotional eating, even if we start there? Is there a difference or is this the same thing?
00:29:49
Speaker
Yeah, so some binge eating will be emotionally driven, but not all emotionally eating will be binging. So we have to define what a binge is first. So that is usually a large amount of food eaten within a relatively short space of time, where there is this sense of having lost control of eating.
00:30:12
Speaker
So that's who you just distinguish it from, say, just overeating, for example. For binging, people often feel out of control. they They feel almost tuned out of what they're doing until they kind of come back around and realize this has been happening. So, yeah, because binging is used kind of colloquially. I got a client there who doesn't have any eating issues, but he said he binged over the weekend to like celebrate some sporting thing with his daughter, right? So I was like,
00:30:39
Speaker
Okay, but did you feel out of control? And then did you also feel like guilty and ashamed about it? And he was like, oh, no, not at all. I knew what I was doing and I enjoyed it. So I was like, oh, cool, that's just overeating. So they're the two important things to consider with what is a binge. It's a lot of food, it feels out of control, and it's associated with then feelings of guilt or shame that come after as a result of doing it.
00:31:03
Speaker
So that's how we define a binge. And people can binge for mood-related reasons where it is a coping mechanism. So that's binging that is emotional in origin, for example. But not everybody who engages in emotional eating is going to feel like they're losing control, ease an objectively large amount of food, and feel guilty and a ashamed as a result. So that would be the differential between mostly eating and bingeing so it's really just the magnitude of the eating which will decide whatever it's a binge or not but a lot of binges can be mostly driven. Does that make sense? You know that makes a lot of sense. So like are they categorized as this would be disordered eating rather than an eating disorder am I right? Or is binge eating considered an eating disorder?
00:31:54
Speaker
Yeah, it's a good question. And it's one that I got asked a lot, like, what's the difference between the disordered eating and and and eating disorder? So the way to look at this is that, say you imagine a spectrum, and you've got normal eating on one side, eating disorder on the other other side. So they're the opposite ends of that spectrum.
00:32:13
Speaker
somewhere over towards that eating disorder side is going to be disordered to eating. Basically, the difference is that an eating disorder has clinical diagnostic criteria to the mess. You know, using the DSM-5 is the the latest manual for like these are all the different medical conditions, right? So eating disorders are a section in that manual. To answer your question, it depends on the frequency of the binge eating and how long it's been on going on for. That will determine if it's like going to meet the diagnostic criteria for binge eating disorder. So binging at least once a week for a period of three months, but then even within
00:32:56
Speaker
eating disorder classifications, there's also a section for disorder eating behavior that doesn't meet any other clinical criteria. So it could be like binge eating both less frequent than that or hasn't gone on as long. So it's more so down to the frequency and the severity. what It's kind of, wouldn't you try to say it's our arbitrary, but like I don't really care if someone's binge eating and they don't meet the criteria of binge eating eating disorder. like It's either causing them problems and distress or it's not. So yeah if it's causing them any issues, then like we need to work on it. But then some of my clients, I can remember working with somebody before who was binging every week when when she started and then got to two years without any dinges, right? So obviously, it's not going to say for her that you know she still has binge eating after like two years of of it not happening.
00:33:45
Speaker
We're all going to be prone to emotional eating at least at times, and then depending on the person, maybe prone to binge eating. And then there's multiple things that will support binge eating, I suppose. You know, so one of them can be obviously the mood side of things, but then you're also looking at, you know, dietary restriction and what's someone doing there and is that.
00:34:05
Speaker
you know, eating to binge eating. kings Are they creating a lot of food rules and restrictions on themselves that if they break them, then they hit the focus button and then they end up binging. Like that's a pretty typical path for that to happen. But yeah, just to answer that question, because there's a good question. It's like, I view them on a spectrum. The disordered eating has a lot of the same characteristics potentially as an eating disorder, but it's not as severe. That's cute. And it doesn't meet the diagnostic criteria.
00:34:32
Speaker
And so if someone who is diagnosed with an eating disorder is a kind of like a state you go from normal eating to binge eating to binge eating disorder, like is a place that people travel through as it gets progressively worse, I suppose.
00:34:49
Speaker
That's a good question. I'd say it happens a lot, but it's probably not like a requirement. So I wouldn't say someone has to sort of have a have a gradually worsening degree of disordered eating before they cross over into eating disorder territory. well So it's not a requirement, but it does happen a lot, I would think. And then it would also add to that, like it's quite common for for eating disorders to you know morph. So someone might the anorexic or have anorexic nervosa, but then they might sort of overcome that, but then they might end up binge eating them later on. So we morph into different eating disorders, depending on what's going on for somebody. I would say disordered eating practices or top processes, you can consider them like a red flag for like, okay, yeah
00:35:41
Speaker
How is my relationship with food here and how is my relationship with with my body and my eating habits? like At that point, I'm at higher risk of potentially ending up with an eating disorder. This is the time to seek help, really. If you recognize, yes, OK, this seems like a bit of a red flag. I am developing patterns here. that is probably Am I right in thinking this is the time to reach out and and get someone to help you?
00:36:04
Speaker
My sort of quote-off for that is pretty basic. like if If this stuff is causing you problems and it's interfering with your life, it doesn't matter if you meet certain the diagnostic criteria. like Again, there's they're not arbitrary, but like if you need help with this, get help with this. It doesn't matter, like quote-unquote, how bad it is. Because then people often say that,
00:36:26
Speaker
Well, I'm not too bad. Like, you know, I don't have the same level of... And that's just really coming back from, like, say, poor self-esteem, probably, where they're like, I don't deserve debt to get help with this at this stage, because it's not that serious, let's say. And I think it's a bit of an Irish thing as out sometimes well sometimes. It's like, oh, I just want to make a force of grant, so grant. through like its but It can be kind of conditioning like that would that's been passed down through the generations, isn't it? Like, you don't want to make a force, you don't want anyone to know that we really need to let go of and be like,
00:36:51
Speaker
If you need help it doesn't make you weak to reach out for help. If anything it makes you smart and strong that you're you're willing to take that step. Yes.
Men and Eating Disorder Stigma
00:37:00
Speaker
And I would speak even more so to men in this situation as well, because at least women are as standard, better at seeking help than men are not. And especially when it comes to eating disorders, could a lot of the research I'll be doing or have been doing as part of the master's, like I say assignments and stuff like that, I do have a research project to do, which is going to be on binge eating behaviors in men who go to the GM in Ireland. So I'll be getting that open running in the next few months, bush
00:37:29
Speaker
men are bad at seeking help full stop but they're also even worse at seeking help when it comes to eating problems because there's a lot of stigma that comes with it. It's like eating disorders are a feminine issue even though for something like binge eating it's nearly a 50-50 split on men and women new experiences, which is not decent not to be said for other eating disorders. The other ones are are more sort of female dominant, which for binge eating is not the case. So yeah, look, if it's causing you a problem and it's like taking up too much head space in your day to day, it's limiting you in terms of your goals. And like we were talking about earlier, live and life, basically on your terms, then I would say, yeah, just get some help with it. Don't let it fester and then get worse when you don't need to.
00:38:16
Speaker
So it's obviously an increasing issue among men, as assist is there any kind of evidence as to why this is an increasing issue with men in relation to binge eating?
00:38:27
Speaker
I think this is always the case in in research for like health and and disease. I think better diagnosis of this stuff you know will generally increase the numbers. you know like As we get better at identifying these things in people, and this is not just related to eating disorders, we'll pick up more of it. and like The fact is that the vast majority of research and eating disorders is done in women, usually like a specific type of woman as well. You know, usually Caucasian, usually aged between them like 20 and 40. So that's quite a narrow group, like when you consider the entire world. I would say some of it is maybe just down to not picking it up in the past. And men not speaking out perhaps as well about it in the past also, I would say.
00:39:14
Speaker
Yeah, and like, yeah often people's experience of actually seeking out with this stuff is pretty poor, and that's sort of like an education issue in healthcare, because you'll see some experiences that men have that like, ah, sure, you just have a good appetite. And like, you know, it can be a big deal for a man especially to go and then maybe talk to his GP, which usually be the first point of contact about something like this.
00:39:38
Speaker
And if he's dismissed as being grand, as it's more likely to be in Ireland, then it could take a lot for him to go and actually seek further help. So in terms of why is it increasing? I'm not quite sure, but I think some of it is just down to more of this stuff being picked up in general and more interest given to it. They're like, oh, this is actually...
00:40:00
Speaker
a global issue that affects men and women almost equally based on the information that we have. A big part of of driving and disordered eating behavior is is what they call an overvaluation of shape and weight. Basically, that just means that like I worry proportionally more about what my body looks like than other things in my life basically. So you usually see this on like a diagram, like a pie chart, right? So someone with like good relationship with their body, normal eating behavior, their chunk of the pie chart that's related to body shape as a valuation is, yeah, it was just kind of normal sized, right? And then the other aspects would be like relationships, career,
00:40:43
Speaker
like health and fitness, sports, hobbies, spirituality, all that stuff will have some degree of a chunk on the pie chart. Then for somebody who has disordered eating issues, the chunk of the pie that goes towards what my body looks like and what shape it is, what size it is, is going to be way bigger. And therefore, all the rest of them are smaller. So that just kind of points to how it limits these other aspects of your life because it takes up so much of your head space.
00:41:11
Speaker
So my point there is that there's more, I suppose, pressure, like, you know, women have been victims of dye culture for a long, long time now at this stage, in terms of like the pressure to look a certain way to meet certain beauty standards. Whereas man, it's a more recent thing, I would say, in terms of like, okay, you got to be super jacked, but also super lean. And this kind of masculine ideal, I think is a bit newer.
00:41:41
Speaker
historian And it's being magnified, isn't it, by social media as well and, you know, what what we're exposed to. And gym culture has become huge as well in in the past 10, 15 years in particular, which is a good thing in some ways. Like when I was working in the gym, I see all the teenagers, all the teenage boys in particular coming in in groups and, you know, working out together. It's like a teenage disco half the time, but it's fantastic to see in one way, because like when I was a teenager, we were down the backwoods smoking and drinking. Like, you know, it's nice that things are changing a bit, but I know that It does bring with it these new issues that are becoming issues for young males. And I know a lot of my listeners as well will be mothers of teenage sons as well. So it's, you know, and it is a worry as well. Then when we're looking at the teenage boys taking steroids but because they're trying to get bigger to look a certain way. And I would presume, would that be kind of a red flag as well? You know, steroid use and, you know, this kind of gym culture.
00:42:33
Speaker
Like steroid use in, in teens is pretty reckless. Like there's just so many reasons not to do that. Like whatever about when you're, before you develop that ultimate, you know, maybe doing this with some sort of sense about your Bush, the the process of that for especially young men is just, they're not doing it right by default. And they don't need to be Yeah, it is the anger sounds. Again, it's like, okay, why are they doing that? Because it's like, oh, I need to guess bigger, more muscular and all that stuff. And, you know, again, that's the influence of physical standards. I always use this example with my clients, especially clients who are maybe have anorexia or have experience with it. You know, so if you go back
00:43:19
Speaker
Not that long ago, you show a poster clip from the 1920s, but it's an ad for this drink, a higher-calorie beverage. And it's got a woman of normal size speaking to her friend. This is a cartoon, basically, going back that far. But she's like, oh don't worry like if you drink this drink you'll you know put some meat on your bones basically and you won't be so skinny that men will come and approach you like the beauty standard back then wasn't to be super themed you know and that was the difference it was just like almost always willing to be like hey drink this and you won't be skinny anymore and then you'll get male attention that's kind of the premise of the ad but it just goes you know that
00:44:06
Speaker
beauty standards change over time. And it's another thing we're talking about, you know, self-reflection. Why do we pursue the things we pursue? Why do we do the things we do? So I think it's a useful thing to reflect on is like, you know, who decides what I'm supposed to look like and why, and like, where does that come from? Because it's someone that's worth mulling over.
00:44:28
Speaker
Yeah, and it's a huge message that I like to get across as well in my own social media. My own message is what health actually looks like on different people, you know, and a lot of what we're exposed to on social media, particularly what young people are about next exposed, not just young people, actually all of us, I take it back, all of us.
00:44:47
Speaker
is this unrealistic standard of what healthy looks like or what fit looks like. These ripped abs, these, you know, extremely lean people. I'm just trying to get the message across the way. That is not healthy. What you're seeing is someone's temporary state that they have worked for months to achieve for a photo shoot or for a competition or for a short period of time. And How they're feeling when they look that way is not at their best. And that's not health. That's taking it to the other end of the spectrum, which look is fine for a particular goal. And then you bring it back, but healthy. We we want to be in a range where we're not too overweight, that it's affecting our health. And we don't want to be too underweight or too malnourished or too dehydrated or whatever the other end.
00:45:36
Speaker
we don't want to be overly thinking about food all the time that we want to eat everything we don't be overly thinking about food that we have to restrict everything we want to be somewhere in the middle and that's where i look different on everyone and as long as you're within a healthy range i think it's important to note that that's what we should be striving for yeah i completely agree everything you said there was bang on as far as i'm concerned Can we talk a little bit about food anxiety?
Food Anxiety and Exposure Therapy
00:45:59
Speaker
Because this is something I see a lot, like people that come to work with myself and my coaches, not women that necessarily have hugely disordered eating or anything, you know, just like myself and other women my age and older, just victims of diet culture for years, but really having anxiety around eating too much.
00:46:17
Speaker
or if they're dieting anxiety about going out eating, anxiety about what calories are on different things, or you know foods that have been labeled as bad in slimming clubs. and Is food anxiety ah a real issue these days in your opinion? Yeah, definitely. If you to consider where those concerns or practices come from, it's like,
00:46:37
Speaker
A lot of it is down to being misinformed. you know Some people are just not aware that there isn't really this like good and bad food dichotomy. I think a bit of education goes a long way in a lot of these cases because you know people are just told basically that. right And especially when you look at the the social media landscape of like yeah this food is is terrible for you and this is why you can't lose weight. It's because you're eating carbs. There's so much bullshit that people are being blasted with on a on a daily basis that You know, yeah that will create anxiety in it ah in of its own right, because it's like, well, what what am I respect she's supposed to do? Because I'm peppered with so many contradictory messages. And then some of it is maybe driven by you know this this sort of idea of body control, weight control, that you know if I eat a certain weight, then I'm going to fail at that. you know And I'm breaking rules that I may have set for myself, or maybe didn't set for me by somebody else. It can lead to a lot of apprehension of about
00:47:35
Speaker
eating certain foods, eating meals out. I had a terrible session with her last night, but yeah she had a meal out last weekend. She was quite concerned about it, and she would usually avoid going for the meal. So she was meeting her friends, but she'd often in the past avoid going for the meal.
00:47:54
Speaker
and just eat them for the drinks afterwards, because she wish she could track the drinks like perfectly. There was no ambiguity about that, trying to track a restaurant meal. That was creating some anxiety for her, where it's like, I don't know how to track this. Therefore, I'm definitely going to read. Therefore, I'm definitely going to you know gain fast. So this is where all the concerns were coming from. We had a conversation about Okay, other stuff actually works in practice. thus First of all, like you're never going to be able to track things perfectly anyway, because it's just impossible. like it's It's quite a precise method of street monitoring, but it's still not perfect. Should work with mating, really, yeah. Yeah, because you know you just take the example of suit labeling, right? It's allowed to be off by up to 20%. So that means that if something's listed as 100 calories,
00:48:44
Speaker
In reality, it could be anywhere from 80 to 120 calories. right And it's not to say that it'll always be wrong. But my point with that stuff is that like it doesn't matter if you're just fairly consistent over time. like That stuff yeah irons itself out. If people have concerns about eating certain foods because they'll contribute to like ill health or fat gain or something like that, then we use just sort of classic exposure therapy techniques with that. So it's like, all right, let's draw up a list of like the forbidden foods and then start working through it, the ones that are released bad, incorporate a little bit of those on a regular basis. And you'll see that, but well, the client will then see that, OK, nothing actually bad happened here. So it's the same as exposure therapy for as classic use and anxiety. So you can do that with food. And then I'll do this with a lot of people, as well, who obviously have binge eating. So they have anxiety about eating certain foods, because it's like, oh, they have the foods they always binge on or they'll trigger a binge.
00:49:43
Speaker
But I get them to do these mindful eating exercises where you know basically focus entirely on the eating experience. I want someone to take out a portion of that food, put the rest away. yeah So don't don't be silly and like you know sit down with a share bag of of something while watching TV. If you're trying to not, I'll read it. People have this sort of anxiety about these foods because in their experience, it's usually quite distressing when they eat them, because it's like, when I eat that food, I end up binging, and then I feel shit as a result. So we need to challenge that process. So we're getting to take out a reasonable portion of the food, put the rest away, do this mindful eating exercise, which is you know very focused on eating the food with all of the five senses, no distractions.
00:50:29
Speaker
Thinking about what's actually going on as the reading is and then if they want to get more after they've eaten their portion Then fine, but they have to keep eating it in this way. So it's very obviously mindful. It's very tuned in and It's basically impossible to binge in that case then because you remember what I said about binging It's like it feels out of control and it is quite mindless generally. So you can't be very mindful of eating and binge eating. Therefore, it always works, you know, if people do the exercise correctly. So, and that will give them confidence in like, oh, I can keep that food in the house. I'm not like anxious the fact that it's in the press and thinking about it constantly.
00:51:09
Speaker
I think it what it's that anxiety of not being able to trust yourself and feeling like you have no control over it. that's said that That causes huge anxiety to be, eat even if it's not about the foods it's and it's about your actual control of them.
00:51:24
Speaker
So that's that's what we show people in that situation. We show them, well, actually you can control the food when it's under the right circumstances.
Mindful and Intuitive Eating
00:51:31
Speaker
If someone has emotional eating tendencies, then we have to look at like regulation skills to try and intervene on that. But again a lot of those are quite mindfulness based because And if you're being mindful and aware and tune in, it's a lot less likely that you'll end up binge eating, for example. People will see eating those exercises that, all right, so I actually do have good control over these foods. so They get confidence around them. They see that it's not just like an automatic fail if they ever do consume them. And then one common report is that a lot of those foods aren't actually nice.
00:52:05
Speaker
And so they pay attention to them. I was talking about that over the last couple of weeks then, you know, she's working through all these foods that she would typically binge on. And she's like, none of these are actually nice. Like why was I ever eating them? Which can be somewhat freeing as well. Cause it takes the food down off this pedestal that like, we never have this. And this is like this trigger food for me where it's like, it just becomes a bit of meth and, and therefore it is way less kind of emotional attachment or anxiety about it.
00:52:31
Speaker
like you're told not to think about that purple elephant it's all you're gonna think about like and I love this like this exposure therapy that you know so anyone listening who is anxious about oh I really shouldn't be having that chocolate bar or this it that you know like and I'm a big believer and I i have a little bit of chocolate every day I love chocolate But it's in a balanced diet. I'll always have a breakfast, lunch and dinner. It'll be balanced with good quality food. And I choose to have a bit of chocolate it every day because I enjoy it and I like it. And and with then if I'm out, I'm getting my food cooked for me, then there's no anxiety involved about what I'm having. I know I live a healthy, balanced lifestyle. And I think that's where I try to get my clients to the stage where it's
00:53:10
Speaker
what you do most days is what is going to make up your your health, your body, your yourself. like And then what you do every now and again is okay. Yeah, I say the same thing. What you do most of the time am over the long term as well counts, not what you do here and there. And it's the guilt of that. Like if you have a Saturday night out and you you go mental, you wake up at a hangover on Sunday, you eat to get a takeaway, you eat loads of shit. It's the guilt that people attach to that. And then suddenly it goes on till fucking Wednesday. Whereas if it was like, okay, right, shit, what has happened? ah Draw a line under it.
00:53:46
Speaker
Maybe do a little bit of reflecting on what happened at the weekend, but but stepping forward from it and but like releasing this guilt, it's like it's okay sometimes to go out with your friends and you know eat loads of food and have maybe an extra drink or two. or You know what I mean? It's not the end of the world. If you're doing it every weekend, it's going to affect your health and your progress, but long-term, every now and again.
00:54:07
Speaker
Yeah, it's super important. like And that's just like a basic education point because people are making not aware of that. You know, I was a client at the moment who's, you know, or orthorexic, you know, so very well was, let's say they'd made a lot of progress since orthorex is, is like this obsession with like healthy eating, right? And this almost fear of like making choices that are going to be bad for their health, let's say.
00:54:32
Speaker
But being able to have a very nuanced discussion with her on the the subject of like what healthy eating actually is, what actually matters. Using my background as a nutritionist, but then doing this in therapy has been super helpful. like Because if I was just a therapist and I didn't have and nutrition background, like wouldn't be able to have like a very nuanced discussion about like ultra processed foods and what that actually means and how that actually interacts with health. because That's quite topical at the moment, right? So that was something she was thinking about. And as a result, a lot of that anxiety goes away because it's like,
00:55:02
Speaker
I'm not worried about these choices that I'm making anymore because I see how they fit into the bigger picture. I don't know if you've ever looked at the intuitive eating principles. They're quite good in terms of what normal eating looks like. For saying that normal eating is on the other end of the spectrum from eating disorder, that's quite good. That's a good framework for people who maybe have been let down a lot by like, say, poor dietary practices and stuff like that. There's a book on that, for example, that that people can maybe check out if if that sounds helpful, but I'll just mention because some people try and twist this to be like, I'll help you lose weight with intuitive eating. It wasn't designed for that. you know It was designed to help people free themselves from
00:55:47
Speaker
Yeah, I'm Mary. And for the last 30 years, I'm going on a diet. It's like, yeah, there's, there's a book I have here on cognitive behavior therapy for eating disorders. And it has a lot of sort of clients kind of quotes in it. I suppose they call them vignettes. You know, they're just like things that people say throughout the course of treatment. That's like, I don't want my epitaph to be, you know, here lies Mary. She wanted to be thinner. Like I find that quite powerful. So that is powerful.
00:56:17
Speaker
Yeah, isn't this? It gives me goosebumps, like, yeah. Wow. Brian, that's a really, really good place to finish it, I think. I could keep you another hour now and ask you loads more questions and dive in all different avenues, but I won't. I'm aware of your time. But just before you finish it, one last question I'd like to ask everyone. And you've probably, like, already in your head know the answer to this question anyway for yourself, because you work with so many clients. But what does the word health mean to you?
Defining Health and Resources
00:56:45
Speaker
That is a good question. Health, to me, means you're able to live your life as fully as possible. You're not held back in terms of, say, mental health deficiencies or physical health deficiencies. When we think about like why do we do all this kind of training and stuff that we do at the group, we have a triage. We're often talking about, well, I want to be able to go to my mountains and stuff like that. I want to be able to go scuba diving. like it's not Like the body composition stuff is fine and like looking good is fine, but I want to experience life as fully as I can. And ah health, I think is an avenue for that, you know, having as many years of good living in you as possible. And then there's obviously, there's balances on that because like,
00:57:35
Speaker
one way you could interpret that, I was like, oh, I'll just go like full hedonism on it and just do drugs, drink lots of alcohol, eat whatever I want. But I'm not going to feel good as a result of doing that. My mental health will suffer and my physical health will suffer. I'm not going to be fit to do much exercise in that kind of a situation. So striking that balance to be able to live as fully as possible, I think is is the way I would try and sum it up.
00:57:59
Speaker
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And I often think, like I'm really like really into hiking. I love going hill walking. And I often think when I'm on the top of a mountain, I actually get this overwhelming sense of gratitude that I'm like, not everybody gets to experience this. And there's a lot of people in this world that will never experience this, even if they are able to.
00:58:18
Speaker
It makes me very grateful that I you know was able to walk up to the top of that mountain and see the things that I can see that some people don't get to see. And I do very much like agree with you and think that's what it's all about, like experiences and having yourself in the best condition to enjoy them. And that just extends to everything, getting the most out of your relationships, your career, your hobbies. So that's it, getting out there and living life and doing things that you enjoy and challenging yourself.
00:58:43
Speaker
As we finish up, if anyone wants to connect with you and what you do and wants to reach out, where is the best place to find you? Yeah, absolutely. It's definitely on Instagram. It's probably the only place I'm active, really. So that's at Brino Inksa. But also, I would say, check out the triage method, Instagram. yeah And that's like we have triage method on all the platforms. So it's the podcasts. We have the website, obviously, as well, which there's loads of articles and and different content on there, too. If there's any professionals listening to this that might be interested in
00:59:18
Speaker
getting certified as nutrition coaches by us, then and we have a nutrition course, we have a sleep coaching course as well. So again, for people who want to get really good at working with clients on their sleep, understanding sleep science, but maybe they already have a nutrition qualification, so they don't need to do the whole nutrition search. That's there, and and loads of other stuff and all the information about our coaching services stuff are on there. And if anyone wants to reach out to me, they could do so on my personal Instagram or the triage method Instagram either.
00:59:48
Speaker
Brian, thank you so much. I honestly, I do think the work you're doing is so valuable. And I really do appreciate your time and all the the information that you've shared today. And that's been really, really enjoyable. Thank you so much, Kate. It's been a great year. Thanks for having me on.
01:00:07
Speaker
I just want to say thank you so much for listening to the podcast. It really means so much to me that there are people out there actually listening to what I have to say and to the conversations that I'm having with others. So thank you so much. If you are enjoying the podcast, could you please make sure that you are subscribed? And if not, if you could hit that subscribe button, it really does make that much of a difference. Also, if you would like to leave a review on any of the episodes that you listen to that you particularly enjoy. I would love to hear what you have to say. And also, if there's an episode that you've enjoyed, please do share it on your social media, in your WhatsApp groups, with your friends. If you're sharing it on your stories, please tag myself in it and whoever I'm interviewing. This it would be greatly appreciated.
01:00:49
Speaker
Also, if you're interested in working with me and my wonderful team, please do contact me about applying for coaching. So you can contact me at Kate Hamilton Health at gmail dot.com or on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, all Kate Hamilton Health, and you will be able to apply for coaching. We can organize to have a chat and see if it's a good fit for you and get you moving towards your goals.