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Episode 024: Julianne Smith - Marketing to a Niche Audience
147 Plays6 years ago
Today’s guest is Julianne Smith of The Garter Girl, a company with a singular mission to design and hand-create a wedding heirloom that is so stylish and so special that brides couldn’t wait to save it for their daughters.
Sometime during her journey building The Garter Girl, she also founded a popular D.C. wedding blog called United With Love, which she eventually sold. This episode was inspired by a blog post that Juli recently published titled Life Without Swipe Up, which essentially reflects on the obsession with getting 10,000 Instagram followers and the Swipe Up feature, and it explores why more followers doesn’t necessarily mean more success, the importance of knowing your niche and showing up consistently where your potential customers are. We chat all that and more throughout this episode, and we also learn how Juli used her background in PR and politics to vault The Garter Girl forward.
Be sure to check out the show notes at daveyandkrista.com for the resources we mentioned during the episode, and I’d like to hear from you about what kind of content you’d like to see on the Brands that Book podcast as we move forward. I’d also like to know what episodes you’ve enjoyed the most so far and why. To leave your feedback, head on over to the Davey & Krista Facebook page and send us a message.
For show notes and other resources, go to https://daveyandkrista.com/btb-juli-smith-episode-24.
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Transcript
Ignoring Facebook for Client Acquisition
00:00:05
Speaker
Not one of my clients in the last five years had said, hey, I saw you on Facebook, or I found this product on Facebook. And it was being honest with that and saying like, okay, all this advice coming in about Facebook, I'm just gonna tune all that out. Welcome to the Brands at Book Show, where we help creative service-based businesses build their brands and find more clients. I'm your host, Davy Jones.
Introducing Julianne Smith and Her Ventures
00:00:34
Speaker
Today's guest is Julianne Smith of The Garter Girl, a company with a singular mission to design and hand create a wedding heirloom that is so stylish and so special that brides couldn't wait to save it for their daughters.
00:00:48
Speaker
Sometime during her journey building the garter girl, she also founded a popular DC wedding blog called United With Love, which she eventually sold. This episode was inspired by a blog post that Julie recently published titled Life Without Swipe Up, which essentially reflects on the obsession with getting 10,000 Instagram followers and the swipe up feature.
The Importance of Niche and Consistency
00:01:07
Speaker
and it explores why more followers doesn't necessarily mean more success, the importance of knowing your niche, and showing up consistently where your potential customers are. We chat all that and more throughout this episode, and we also learn how Julie used her background in PR and politics to vault the garter girl forward.
00:01:25
Speaker
Be sure to check out the show notes at davianchrista.com for the resources we mentioned during the episode, and I'd like to hear from you about what kind of content you'd like to see on the Brands That Book podcast as we move forward. I'd also like to know what episodes you've enjoyed most so far and why. To leave your feedback, head on over to the Davian Christa Facebook page and send us a message. Now on to the episode.
From Listener to Guest: Julie's Journey
00:01:54
Speaker
We have Julie Smith from The Garter Girl. Some of you who are listening might be familiar with a blog that she used to run called United With Love. I want to dive into all of that today as well. But I'm excited to have Julie here on the show because I think she might be the first maker we've had on the show so far. And so there's lots to talk about. And we were just having a fascinating conversation before this podcast episode even started about that line between being a service-based business and an e-commerce business. So I'm excited to dive into all of that. But welcome, Julie.
00:02:24
Speaker
Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here. I've listened to, I think, almost all of your episodes, and I was really excited to see you guys had started a podcast. It seems like a natural fit for your business, so I'm so excited.
00:02:36
Speaker
Yeah, thank you. Well, it's been something that I've really enjoyed doing because I get to talk to a lot of people that are doing really awesome things with their business, including yourself. So today, we're going to dive really into the garter girl side of your business. So real quick, can you tell us what the garter girl is?
Building The Garter Girl Brand
00:02:55
Speaker
Yes, it's my alter ego. No, I'm just kidding.
00:02:58
Speaker
So I started the garter girl back in 2004 and I design and hand make wedding garters for brides and my first wedding garter in 2004 but it wasn't until about 2007-2008 that I said okay I'm gonna give it one more year I'm gonna do this business or I'm gonna give it up because it was always it was kind of a side hustle prior to that.
00:03:23
Speaker
And I would say within three months of me saying I'm going to do this thing or I'm going to give it up, I had a ton of success. Kathy Lee was flinging my garter on the Today Show and it's been a wild ride ever since. And I thought once I get bored of this or once I've done everything I can do, I'm going to give it up.
00:03:46
Speaker
you know, in 2008. So I'm still rocking it. Yeah, 10 years ago. That's awesome. And I guess the reason that we're talking today is we're talking about running a successful business being an effective marketer, even without a large audience on, you know, specifically, we're going to be talking about Instagram here, but on social media platforms. So can you give us an idea before we dive in? Because I want to I want to hear about the hit more of the history of the garter girl and talk about your blog united with love, which you sold two years ago now.
00:04:15
Speaker
But before we do that, can you just give us a sense of your social media followings? Sure. I always find it entertaining when people talk about being in a niche business because
00:04:26
Speaker
I make wedding garters. It does not get any more niche than what I do. You'd be hard pressed to find someone who can drill down farther than I have. Yes, that is all I do. It's all I make. I really don't focus on anything else. I think it's the curse of a creative person. As you probably know, there's a lot of pressure and you have all these ideas that are blowing up in your mind.
00:04:53
Speaker
I mean, within a week I have like 10 other businesses that I could have started. So I really, I'm from day one, I thought I am just going to stick to the wedding garter thing and I'm not going to get distracted. Now the blog was a whole other story. But I really, you know, I don't make ring pillows and I don't do all kinds of other things. And even though there's a lot of pressure to do that, and I really kind of stay hardcore into my niche. Now, with staying laser focused on your niche, that
00:05:22
Speaker
becomes, you know, you've a very, very small following, right? I don't have repeat clients. I mean, it's rare, unless they're, it may be kind of sad. Yeah. Buying for a friend or buying, you know, for a daughter or something like that. But pretty much like my clients are one and done. And then I have a very niche, very specific product. And so yeah, like I really have a small following in that sense, because, you know, there's, there's,
00:05:50
Speaker
a lot of other businesses out there and they may have. Repeat clients but that you know that's not me that's not what i do and then you know there's only a very small subset of people that are even interested in the service that i am providing so i do feel like i have a small following in that sense.
00:06:09
Speaker
Sure. And I probably phrase that poorly because I think and I'm glad you brought all of these concepts up about being laser focusing in your niche. And we're gonna get to kind of the blog post about Instagram that brought all of this up. But even that, you know, and I want to say you have 5,000 or so followers on Instagram, which is not small, you know, if you put 5,000 people in a house, they pour out into the front yard, right?
00:06:35
Speaker
But, but I think it's important that you know, how you phrase that around having or being in a niche, because the truth is, is for for many of us, for most of us, maybe for all of us, we don't need everybody to buy from us, right? In order to run a successful business. But anyways, I've jumped ahead. I want to go back. And I want to talk about flow combo. Yeah, I want to talk about building the garter girl. So you started as a side hustle. What were you doing primarily where the garter girl was sort of a side hustle?
00:07:05
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. So this is career number two for me. I worked in politics and media and PR. If anyone watches the West Wing, I was like convinced that I was going to be the next CJ Craig. And I worked on Capitol Hill for a while and I worked in the White House administration for a while. And then I had my daughter, um, got unexpectedly pregnant and I just, I just knew I couldn't do that. And.
00:07:33
Speaker
be the kind of mom that I wanted to be. So I left politics and I stayed home doing nothing for about a year. That didn't last long. It lasted about a year because I am, I like to work. I'm always, you know, my mind is always racing. And so I, like I said, I stayed home for about a year doing nothing. And then I, that's when I was like, all right, I'm going to either give up this garter thing or I'm going to just, I'm going to do it.
00:08:02
Speaker
And this is me just doing it. So how did you get into making garters in the first place? Like, how did that even come about? Was it just a creative outlet like while you were in politics? Because, you know, obviously two aren't very related. No, I know. It's so bizarre. And when people meet me, I'm just like, I'm like, trust me, once you get to know me, it's not weird. But at first, yeah, it's kind of awkward. Like, I make wedding garters, but
00:08:25
Speaker
Don't worry, once you get to know me, it's not that weird. So I had a friend, a very good friend, and she was getting married, and there was a bunch of bridesmaids, and everybody got a duty, and she really wanted, my friend, the bride, really wanted a garter for her wedding. And I was always, you know, that annoying, like, I still am, that, like, crafty one, when I would just make it, when I couldn't find it, and my mom is a sewer, and she still sews.
00:08:52
Speaker
So she wanted this garter. It was this thing and she wanted it and it was like my only job. My friend owned a bridal salon at the time and I said, you need to help me find a garter. And she said, yeah, we just, we don't have them. And then I said, well, I guess I'm just going to make it. I don't know. I'm going to figure it out. And then she said, what do you mean make it? You know, show me what, what you make. So I did. And I showed her and then she said, well, if you make me more, I'll sell them. And so I did. And.
00:09:22
Speaker
So like I said, it was always this sort of thing I did on the side when I had time, which was rare because I was working a billion hours. So as you got this thing started, when you decided, how intentional were you in getting it started? Did you have social media accounts for the garter girl up to that point? I'm sure not before you made your first garter, you didn't. What was your plan of action when you decided, hey, I'm going to see if this can be a thing?
The Power of Media and PR
00:09:50
Speaker
I wish I had a plan of action. No, I really, I kind of jumped right in because I used to work in media and PR. That was all that I knew. And so when I jumped in and said, okay, I'm going to do this, I just was like, I'm going to get, you know, I thought, oh, I'm going to get my products into, you know, all these bridal salons. Well, you go to the first one, the second one and third one, they're like, uh, no, who are you? You know, you're a nobody.
00:10:16
Speaker
And then i took a step back and said okay well i need to get all this media attention then all these bridal salons will carry my stuff right because then all these you know third parties will validate me and say oh you know this is a legitimate business and then these bridal songs will have to carry my stuff. And so i went out and got a ton of media attention i mean i was like i said i was today show martha stewart on her i was on her show i was.
00:10:42
Speaker
in magazines, I was on the blog, I was, you know, brides, the knot, all of it. I just, I brought like the same intensity that working in politics to the wedding business. And it was like, like just this explosion. And people were like, where is this girl coming from? And I just thought, well, I'm just doing kind of what I know. And it was like this very sort of intense first couple years.
00:11:09
Speaker
Social media really wasn't around back then. I had to look it up. I want to say it was either 2009 or 2010. The only reason that my business name is even The Garter Girl today is because I was signing up for a Twitter account and I was always Julianne Smith. I thought, that's kind of like
00:11:32
Speaker
Julianne Smith wedding garters and I was signing up for a Twitter account and of course every version of Jay Smith, Julianne Smith, every version of that was taken and even at that point and I was still pretty early on Twitter. I think I was watching like a lot of Gossip Girl if you know that show.
00:11:53
Speaker
Not particularly familiar, but I think Chris is so yeah, okay I love that show and I was watching it and I literally think that it was about a second or two where I'm just like typing in different versions on Twitter trying to see if they're taken and I just did Garda girl and it was a sort of a play on gossip girl and that's how the name started and again and I I
00:12:16
Speaker
Remember it was several years later. I was sitting this is a really long story I was sitting at a bar in Chicago with a bunch of other wedding professionals and they were all looking at me like what do you mean your business name is in garter girl like you're the garter girl everybody knows that and I think it was the next day I officially applied for a trademark and changed my name and and Officially changed my business name to the garter girl. I
00:12:41
Speaker
That's fascinating. And I love that story. And I think anybody with a last name like Smith or Jones has dealt with that same struggle of finding an Instagram handle or a Twitter handle or whatever it is. That's actually their name. But going back, I felt like you went from 0 to 60 when it came to the getting the media promotion. It wasn't like, oh,
00:13:04
Speaker
you know, I got as much as media exposure as possible and I went to this niche, you know, blog and I went to, you know, this regional publication, you went to today's show. So can you give some insight into how you were able to do that? Like, did you just cold pitch them? Like, what did that look like? So what's the secret? There's no secret. That's the thing. You just have to be like,
00:13:29
Speaker
Super creative and super unwilling to just kind of keep asking questions and keep kind of pushing on i'm literally called up i'm looking over here because i still have the book i have it's like a it was a book of.
00:13:44
Speaker
news media that and again this is like before the internet was like amazing and i stole it from our old office it was even like an old version because the you know made him every year and i looked at the today show like the main number not even today so it was like nbc i looked at the main number and was and you just with a straight face i was like
00:14:03
Speaker
I'd like to speak to the producer of today's show throws a wedding and you got and you got on the phone with him or her and it was like oh so inside forgetting it like so and so or the guy or whatever wasn't. Wasn't in or whatever and I left him a voicemail that's kind of how it started.
00:14:21
Speaker
That's that's incredible. And so when you got me the exposure like that, I assume it was a little bit easier to get other media outlets to cover you as well. Well, yeah, it gives you this instant credibility, right? So I had been at the blog shall rename nameless, but I had been pitching them for a while. And no response, no response. And
00:14:41
Speaker
It wasn't even twenty four hours after the today show had come out and I not only got an email back I got a phone call saying we would love to work with you. You know so that kind of stuff gives you instant credibility and instant respect but you know some of it I think the world is is totally different now.
00:15:01
Speaker
I would say though, I always thought that I would get my products in these bridal salons because if you were spending thousands of dollars on a dress to buy this handmade item would be kind of no big deal. While I was getting turned down by bridal salons, I started my blog for my business. You were asking about PR and stuff.
00:15:24
Speaker
My blog was i would say the number one PR tool that i use i really approached it as like a magazine for my business is nobody said no on my blog right nobody turned me down so i and there's no algorithm on your blog either so i just.
00:15:40
Speaker
really used that media and PR background and I really just wrote about my business and wrote about problems that my potential clients would have even before they knew they were having them. I really used my blog. As I was going out and building my blog and building my press portfolio, I started to get more and more sales online.
00:16:04
Speaker
And then it got to the point where you know bridal salons would call and i would and then i would look at the numbers and go wait a minute i have to cut my. Price in half to sell to these bridal salons when i'm actually doing a lot better on my own. On through my website and then that's when the shift changed but i really i do much better on my own.
00:16:24
Speaker
Sure, did you decide at that point not to work with bridal salons? Or do you work with some bridal salons? I have a handful that I work with, but not many. Like the wholesaling products is a whole other business. Not to hole and hole, but like the pun there. But yeah, wholesaling, it's another business. It's quite different. And I realized just as a singular person doing my thing and because of the blog
00:16:51
Speaker
that really propelled my business and it became much more profitable for me to sell one on one than it was to sell ten but having to cut my price in half.
00:17:02
Speaker
Yeah, I think this story is so fascinating for a number of reasons. One, because I think it differs so much from a lot of the people that we've had on the show so far, where, you know, it was a certain social media channel or this, that, you know, I think this is just the going the PR media route in getting that initial visibility, especially with even though selling gardeners is a niche.
00:17:21
Speaker
business. It's a, you know, your potential audience is not just in DC. You know, it's not like you're running a local photography business where really you're trying to market people in the DC area, you're trying to market to people nationally. So getting on the Today Show, especially a wedding segment is huge and incredible. That's awesome. Yeah, I mean, I love my local DC wedding community. And they've been amazing to me. Obviously, I started a blog for weddings in DC. But when I first started out, I really didn't
00:17:50
Speaker
I wasn't in the DC wedding scene because I ship my product all over the world. It was always this push-pull between service business, local business, but I'm not, but I'm e-commerce, but I'm online. It's always been this challenge between being a service-based business who
00:18:13
Speaker
has a product or a product business that provides a service. I don't know, I've always lived in that gray area. Yeah, and I want to talk to you about that shift here in a second. But first, I have to ask, if you were to go back or rather, if you were starting again today, would you take the same approach with the same media PR approach as you did back in, you know, 2004 or 2008? Gosh, that's such a good question, probably because that's what I know.
00:18:38
Speaker
Yeah. And I think it's just as valuable today. You know, people still people still watch the show, you know, or comparable shows. PR and media is about
00:18:48
Speaker
For me, it was about these third-party validators that said, hey, this is a legitimate business. And so it's like I could tell potential clients or bridal salons that, listen, I'm not going to make you a piece of junk. I'm actually going to make you something beautiful and amazing. But when you have a third party, a.k.a. some media or press that does that for you, it's like you say it without having to say it. And then it becomes, you know, I think that there's
00:19:18
Speaker
I want to just make one caveat here. I think that there's a bit of a misunderstanding when it comes to PR and media is that people think, oh, I'm just going to get my wedding in the not magazine. And it's all going to be fine. And that is because of my background, I knew that that wasn't the case. The starting point with getting that publication or getting that feature is simply the starting point. It's what you do with it afterwards.
00:19:48
Speaker
that that becomes the key, right? So it's like,
00:19:53
Speaker
You get that little badge on your website, right? And so from now on for the life of my business, it's like as seen on today's show as seen on Martha Stewart, right? And then it's like getting that out on to your audience and your followers like, Hey, this person or this media person saw me and they validated me. And it's like pushing that and pushing it out and really using it as a way to promote your business as opposed to just.
00:20:20
Speaker
getting the publication and sitting back and waiting for the referrals to come in because it doesn't work like that. You have to then go out and almost like promote the promotion. Yeah, no, I think that's important advice because it's not like it's providing perpetual traffic. It's not like people are going and watching old episodes of
00:20:39
Speaker
the today show. So you have to get that information in front of your audience. And the same thing with the feature on the not or style me pretty or whatever it is. Like when that blog post goes live or when when they feature on social media that day, sure, you're probably getting a little bit of traffic.
00:20:54
Speaker
But you're probably not getting as much traffic a year later or two years later with that said, and I know that you spend a lot of time on SEO. Yeah, for sure. And it's a good SEO value for sure as well. Oh my gosh, of course. For me, I always knew like,
00:21:11
Speaker
Again, hey, I could be in Martha Stewart, but no bride's going to say, look at the bottom credits of a real wedding and go, oh, yeah, I'm going to buy that product. No, I'm going to book that photographer. It has to have all these other meanings for your business.
00:21:30
Speaker
You have to kind of look at it as a total, like, okay, it's this validator for me, and I'm going to use it, and I'm going to promote it, and I'm going to use it to help me in these other ways, as opposed to saying, like, oh, that blog or that publication was ineffectual. I didn't book anybody from that. It's like, well, that's kind of not really the point. If you're looking for bookings, then PR is sort of the long game, and maybe not totally where you should be putting your focus.
00:21:59
Speaker
Sure. Yeah, no, I think that makes sense. But I think that, you know, like that validation, it's similar to having customer reviews on your website or people visiting a review aggregator like WeddingWire or something like that. I mean, people just simply they want to read reviews before they buy something. And something like a badge saying that or asking on the Today Show, that's something that it's like a review on steroids, you know, it's just a high powered testimonial.
00:22:29
Speaker
Even though if you go back and look at the actual video of like hoda and Kathy Lee flinging it and it was like this whole thing it was it's horrifying I mean Some of my early features on brides magazine or brides calm or like I'm like you've got to be kidding me You know you're like embarrassed by them because your business has grown so much and you know it's great It's been a wild ride, but yeah like some of them some I mean I
00:22:57
Speaker
God bless if somebody goes back and finds that video from the today shows. I think that's how everybody feels about early stuff though or even you know there's stuff that we've done a year or two years ago that I'm thinking okay that's not really as representative of the kind of work that we can do now you know or the kind of business we run now. That's why keeping your you know website and your blog and everything up to date is so important because
00:23:23
Speaker
your business evolves and changes and it's really important to get your new stuff out there.
00:23:28
Speaker
Yeah. So I could talk about this for a lot longer, but I do want to I do want to shift into this this blog post article that kind of spurred on this episode. Sure. I do. I'm going to revisit at the end of the episode, though, united with love because you did start a successful DC based wedding blog that you eventually sold. And so that's also fascinating. I want to come back to that. But let's talk about life without swipe up. So can you tell tell us about that article and some of the responses that you got after writing that article?
00:23:58
Speaker
Yes. So I wrote a blog post about life without the swipe up. And that just means what it's like to be on Instagram, what it's like to have a business when you don't have a lot of followers. And on Instagram, when you have less, when you have more than 10,000 followers, you get that fancy little function in your stories where you can, the, the user can swipe up to see your blog posts.
00:24:28
Speaker
or to see whatever you've linked there and you know you get that fancy little K behind your name as opposed to you know the actual follower count total number so I was feeling really
Instagram Obsession vs. Business Success
00:24:42
Speaker
frustrated and down on myself and kind of sorry for myself for a long time about the size of my follower count and you know it's so pathetic to say out loud right because it sounds like like so
00:24:57
Speaker
whiny and it bothered me for a very very long time and i just i felt like every time i would look at that follower count i just kept saying this is just not reflective of. My business my business is so much more so much better so much bigger so much more productive than this number and i don't i was like.
00:25:19
Speaker
totally obsessed with it for the longest time. I think so many people though can resonate with that. Just, you know, trying to find that validation in a follower count, especially Instagram, where it's front and center using you. Yep, exactly. And then you wake up in the morning and like 10 are gone. Right? And then you get two more and you're scraping and
00:25:43
Speaker
clamoring for one more and then you wake up the next morning and five of them are gone. It was an obsession for really longer than I care to admit. I'm just coming off of actually Saturday will be my last day. I'm just coming off a nine-week sabbatical in my business.
00:26:07
Speaker
I and what led to it was i just was so stressed and so just ready to break and it might a friend of mine she's like it was either a break or break down and i chose the break and you know that's a whole other conversation happy to talk about any time about how i kind of. Took a nine week break but i still made quite a bit of money because i kind of prepared for it so it was like
00:26:33
Speaker
Personal break, but the business was still running. But anyway, I in that break I really started to kind of look back on my business over the last year and realized that I had one of the most if not the most profitable year I have ever had and I thought why am I so I'm so obsessed with this number this follower count yet? I'm still
00:27:01
Speaker
profitable and busy as anything. So like, why am I so obsessed with it? And I kind of started to peel back the layers of that. And that's what led to me writing this like, I don't know, it started out as a ramp, but then I like edited it. And it actually has like a lot of advice about how I use Instagram, but it's just like one thing that I do and how I try not to be so obsessed with the follower count. Because when I look at the reality of my business,
00:27:32
Speaker
It's not judged or made profitable by that number of the account. And I've said this, I think, a number of times on even this podcast, but speaking, you know, we speak a lot about SEO, but especially when we're talking about different metrics, you know, like what metrics actually indicate or indicators of a successful business. And I would throw out there that while social media followings can be
00:27:59
Speaker
they're often not directly correlated with the amount of revenue a business brings in or how successful they are. I just don't think that they're good indicators for success. Listen, people have told me that. I know that. But in my mind, I would still go and be like, this is so embarrassing or I've been in business since
00:28:23
Speaker
two thousand four seven eight whatever you want to talk why am i still at this small number this this other person's been around for a hot minute and they you know they have the swipe up and i don't you know they must be doing better than me they must be you know and it just became this like for me this like sick version of comparison itis
00:28:44
Speaker
And of course I know on paper that it's not reflective of my my business of course I know that but like that is easier said than done and I I know that but I really but if I'm being honest and true with myself I really was kind of obsessed with the number and I.
00:29:02
Speaker
That was part of part of me writing this article on my blog About life without the swipe up was just like my almost like my own therapy of how I just was like, okay There I said it. I'm obsessed with the number. There you go. I'm saying it and I know it's not true But you know, I'm just gonna say it out loud and it actually it helped like I was like, okay I feel good. I got it out there because you know, I stood on it for like a month or two before I even I
00:29:30
Speaker
I even posted it, but then the response was insane. I had businesses all over. Oh my gosh, thank you so much for writing this. I feel the same way. How do you do it? Thank you. In the article, I really like to use my blog to help other people. I try not to just write a blog post saying something. I like to try to give some tips. There were a lot of tips in there. I was like, oh, this is so helpful.
00:29:59
Speaker
You know it was like my highest engaged post and I only just didn't like one so people just went like bananas for it and in such a good way it made me feel so much better it was like this. Little like community around all of us little people I guess.
00:30:15
Speaker
Well, I think so many people, including ourselves, like Krista and I have definitely gotten to a funk like that where our perspective, we put a lot of focus on maybe the wrong thing, whether it be Instagram or something else in our business that has no real correlation with moving forward or success, but for whatever reason,
00:30:33
Speaker
you know, we stress about it. And so I think it's especially true of those of us who run businesses ourselves, you know, like with small teams or by ourselves, because there's no one really there to say, hey, stop focusing on that. Like, that's not important focus on this. And I think oftentimes it takes some outside perspective or sitting down and getting those thoughts out on paper, you know, to, I guess, reframe your perspective.
00:30:57
Speaker
But where did that post end? So you had mentioned that there's some tips in there. What was the conclusion you came to about Instagram? You're still on Instagram, of course. It's not like you said, oh, this is a worthless platform and it does nothing for me and I'm just going to delete the account. I love Instagram personally. I love Instagram professionally. But really, it became for me about, okay, if I'm going to put as much time and energy
00:31:22
Speaker
Into Instagram whether that energy is just like obsessing or actually like doing then I need to be like a whole lot better on it And I and I wasn't and so then I was like why am I you know? So obsessed, you know, I have all these other things that are working and this is just one small part of kind of what I do and you know for me and I think every business has to decide but fortunately or unfortunately
00:31:49
Speaker
depending on how you want to look at it. For my business, my clients are on Instagram. They're not on Facebook. That's where I need to be and be visible and accessible. It's a struggle because, again, I'm such a niche product. Why do even 5,000 people follow me?
00:32:13
Speaker
Like you probably have people who follow you, who've bought from you, but they're well past their wedding, you know, and they still follow along. So as far as like, like, so how do you approach Instagram now? You know, and what are, I want to talk about some of the other marketing channels that you use in your business as well. So you had this, you know, you had this kind of moment with Instagram where you're, you know, you're focused on the, maybe the wrong things, maybe that, that follower account instead of how you show up. So how did you decide that you're going to show up on Instagram?
00:32:43
Speaker
And if I remember correctly from that article too, there are a couple other channels that your clients do show up on. Pinterest, I think, was one of them. I know on your website too, you collect emails. So what was that kind of perspective change for Instagram? Yeah. So when I took a step back about what Instagram is and wasn't for my business, because what I've noticed over the years and mostly in the last year or two,
00:33:12
Speaker
is my clients would send me screenshots of things on Instagram and they'd say, I want that one. That's the one I want. And it would be like, you know, 62 weeks ago and boy, they found it, you know, so, or it would be something very recent. Oh, I want this one or, you know, and more and more, they would send me screenshots from Instagram, whether they followed me or not. They, so then I kind of started had to look strategically about,
00:33:42
Speaker
my purpose on instagram and so i have a couple goals and what i try to do is i try to use instagram not to sell but more to like network so like if i'm on
00:33:59
Speaker
It's more kind of like a friend of mine who's a planner here in DC, she was like, you need to be the girl of garter girl. I don't get you, I just see product. And so I'm trying, I'm trying to be more personal and show not so many pretty pictures all the time and not just product, but it's hard. Because I have, as we've talked about, I have three kids, but I really don't, I'm not a mommy blogger, so I really don't, and that's a decision my husband and I have made. I really don't show them very much.
00:34:28
Speaker
And so I but I do try to like network on there and be be personal and be you know be that girl of guard or girl and then I do try to show product because I do because people do take those screenshots and send it to me so I kind of use it as like a gallery a little bit and then I also use it as like an opportunity to expose my
00:34:50
Speaker
Brand to new or engaged people that wouldn't have otherwise even considered a garter. I know that much like the PR they're not going to be like oh yes absolutely let's buy right now but it's more just that exposure to like.
00:35:06
Speaker
You go from a cold lead to a lukewarm maybe and that kind of stuff doesn't really pay off for months on end. But to do that sort of third piece is I use hashtags and I'll go in and there's a couple that I know and I'm always finding out more that brides, newly engaged brides will use. One that I've been using lately is I said yes to the dress.
00:35:34
Speaker
Or dress shopping or something like that and i will go on and i try to do it once a week and check out the hashtag and what are they doing and who's shopping with them and what's the experience like was it good was it bad and you know i will usually.
00:35:50
Speaker
leave a comment, like a genuine comment. I'm happy for you. You look so happy. Congratulations. And it's never, oh, if you're thinking about buying a garter, check out my page. And I see that stuff all the time, and it makes me cringe every time. It's just more like, oh, it's so pretty. Congratulations. Or that's so exciting. Congratulations. And really, that's all it is.
00:36:14
Speaker
Yeah. And so if I'm hearing you correctly, you use it more as maybe a top of funnel, middle of funnel tool, sort of the handshake in the relationship like, hey, this is who I am. This is not, you know, it's not a place where you go on and you're making a lot of direct sales necessarily.
00:36:30
Speaker
But it is, it does sound like an effective tool in getting your name out there, in introducing yourself to people in a genuine way, you know, not using some tool or robot to go on and randomly comment on, you know, hashtags and things like that. Yeah, I mean, we have to I think as business owners, we have to respect the fact that it's social media, and it's meant to be social, it's meant to be fun. And
00:36:56
Speaker
You know, I think businesses are like, yes, all these people in one spot, let me just like sell to them. And then it kind of ruins the platform. And once you kind of step back and you're saying, okay, well, I'm here to be social, let's just, let's be social. And once you step back from that, because there are other platforms to sell, right? I mean, I can sell all day long on my website and nobody judges me, nobody questions me, no one throws an algorithm at me. And that's the perfect spot to do that, right? That's what it's meant to be.
00:37:26
Speaker
And when people go there, that's what they expect. When people go to a company's website, they expect, oh, that person may try to sell their product or service. That's just the expectation. One thing I wanted to point out, that was such a good description where I use Instagram as a very top of the funnel. I'm really just trying to introduce people to not just the guard or girl,
00:37:48
Speaker
the brand and but also garter girl the person but also just the idea and the concept of a wedding garter in general because let's be honest it's not the first thing when you get engaged you're like I'm gonna get my garter no it is like a million on the list yeah and so I am really just trying to open people's minds to just the idea or the possibility or that
00:38:16
Speaker
just change their perception of what it is, what it means, what it looks like, how it fits, all that kind of stuff. Like you said, I love that description. It is like so top of the funnel. So top. Very big funnel.
00:38:31
Speaker
So what other marketing channels have been successful for your business as well? So it's not just Instagram. I know even in that blog post you mentioned spending time on search engine optimization, you know, music to my ears, which is, you know, I feel like everybody wants to, you know, like I consider myself an expert in SEO, but it's funny because I always joke with Krista and others about how I wish I was the expert on Instagram, you know, because Instagram is such, it's just a cooler
00:38:57
Speaker
you know it's like the trendy whereas everybody's like oh yeah I roll it you can feel it with SEO you first of all it gets a bad rap because like it's like you know smarmy and whatever but there's like shady companies and stuff out there but and you can't see it you can't touch it they're little robots and they're little bots and so
00:39:19
Speaker
Listen, I hear you. I mean, so SEO from day one has always been like a huge focus of mine. And if you're out there listening
The Role of SEO in Business Growth
00:39:29
Speaker
to this podcast, the single best freest thing you can do for your business is get smart on SEO. I see it time and time again, people turn a business owners turn a blind eye to it. They think that it's something that they can't understand or that they can't do.
00:39:49
Speaker
And it's simply not true. And the business owner needs to be, you don't necessarily have to do the work, but you have to be smart on SEO. You kind of have to understand it a little bit. You have to know what you're doing just a little bit. Not, not a lot. You don't need to be an expert, but it is the single greatest, bestest, most amazing thing that you ever can do for your business is learn just enough about SEO to make sure it's being done.
00:40:19
Speaker
properly and well. And it is not as hard as everybody makes it out to be. And I think it's because they can't see it. Sure, they can't see it, especially even immediate results. Yeah. If I'm teaching about Instagram, you know, I can say, hey, go do XYZ and that's going to result. And if you do XYZ, maybe that results in 10 followers or 20 followers or 100 followers or something like that. And maybe that happens pretty immediately. With search engine optimization, the stuff that you put in place might not pay off for months.
00:40:48
Speaker
You can't see it, right? Like you're saying, oh, take this beautiful photograph posted on Instagram. Maybe make followers like you said, but you see the photo. Yeah. Like you see it. And the thing with SEO, as you know, like, they're little robots. They don't see pictures.
00:41:05
Speaker
They don't know that this is a photo of a wedding guard or they don't know that this is a photo of an invitation you have to tell them so that's the difference it's not something that is and as creative people were visual right so. It can be the lot of the focus is on the visual and the design and what we can see and touch but unfortunately for seo we can't see.
00:41:28
Speaker
excuse me or touch it and so yes to your point seo is always has been always will be a huge huge focus and on that point yes there's seo for google but learning about seo then helps you in other areas okay because
00:41:48
Speaker
For me, another focus of mine is Pinterest. I've been on Pinterest since the days where you had to be invited. Again, don't have a huge following on Pinterest, but I see the traffic coming in and it's insane.
00:42:05
Speaker
And all the SEO tools that I use on Google, I are directly applicable on Pinterest. Sure. All of them. And it wasn't like I went in and said, I'm going to, I have made an effort to learn more about Pinterest, but it's all the same as SEO on search engine optimizations. And I just went in and was kind of doing what I was doing on my blog or on my website. And then it kind of started to pay off on Pinterest because it's
00:42:33
Speaker
Somebody said, oh, you know what what Google does Pinterest does and even though they're not owned by each other, but It's true I mean a lot of the same SEO concepts such as keywords and naming things properly and telling the user because again, they're bots Right, so they don't see photos. You have to tell it you have to tell the search engine and I would say for the user not for the little bots and
00:42:57
Speaker
And I would argue that even beyond Pinterest, I know it's helped me in other areas of our business because I think when it comes down to SEO is about creating great content. Google said that's the number one. Creating compelling content that engages and answers the user's search intent is the most valuable ranking factor.
00:43:15
Speaker
So, if you can learn to create great content. And then the second thing, user experience on your website, doing things that make sense, putting information in the places that people, you know, would intuitively think to find that information. And then lastly, link building, which to me, shares a lot of these same characteristics as relationship building does. You know, it might be a little bit more of a slow going process like relationship building. But ultimately, I think pays dividends down the line.
00:43:41
Speaker
And so I think just in general, SEO has helped me as a business owner, no matter what platform or just in marketing in general, you know, and even with things like PR and media and things like that. Yeah. I mean, I, when I, so funny, so I don't know if your users know this, but back when I had United with Love and then Krista and Natalie started Bayside Bride,
00:44:07
Speaker
Right and they you know we were kind of both doing the blogging thing and then when I sold United with love I would do these like blogging conferences where I would teach people how to do blogging and always came back to SEO right now it's kind of like the foundation of all of it I mean I know you know this but like it's something like three hundred factors that Google uses to rank
00:44:31
Speaker
just one webpage. But that's impossible. We can't go down this rabbit hole of trying to get, whether it's link building or photo naming or all these different factors that go into it. So I literally just pick the five or six that I know I can do and I'm just like a laser on those. So when I would teach
00:44:54
Speaker
these blogging courses and workshops and stuff, I would go around and I would look at other local creatives. I would look at their websites and be like, I can help you or I cannot help you. But every time I got to one of your websites, I would be like, oh, this person's rocking it. They're doing a good job. And then there at the bottom, it would be designed by you two. And I'm like, boom, they're good. They don't need me. They got it. They're rocking it.
00:45:23
Speaker
It happened a handful of times, actually more times than it happened a lot. I know it wasn't supposed to be about SEO, but it matters. It's important. I think a lot of businesses really just don't focus on it because they can't see it or touch it.
00:45:44
Speaker
Yeah, well, I appreciate hearing that for sure. I would go through and I'm like, they're good. Wow, this website, you know, this photographer or this, you know, planner is doing a good job. They don't even need me. And then they're at the bottom, there'd be your name. Yeah, we love hearing that for sure. So as far as your business goes, what do you think has been the most effective marketing channel for you? Do you think it has been Pinterest? Oh, that's a tough one. Most effective? Yeah, Pinterest has been good to me.
00:46:14
Speaker
been really good to me. Pinterest doesn't mess with you. It's super straightforward. They're a search and discovery platform. They're not a social media platform. They really, to your point about content, they want to just answer the customer. If you answer the customer, if the customer types in chicken recipe and you have a chicken recipe and you give them the chicken recipe that they're looking for,
00:46:42
Speaker
like everybody's happy you know and they love that and that works for me because that's how i am right like i work better on things that personally like just like boom boom check check check and it's like if you tell the robot like or the seo that it's a wedding garter and you come to my website you're going to find a wedding garter and then i'm going to make you want you know and it like it kind of works for me so yeah pinterest has been awesome
00:47:09
Speaker
for me but really like Google I mean SEO has been amazing the blog has been really good for me but the other thing I think that you know we all underestimate in this day and age of social media stuff is like the importance of networking and you guys know you know you started rising tide society but you know when I started United with love the single bestest most amazing thing I did was I would have these monthly happy hours where people
00:47:38
Speaker
like wedding professionals would come and it wasn't like a sales thing it was just like this was before rising tide society but it's the same concept like you know you you just people were just like craving that in-person connection you know and same with your own blood like there's no algorithms and networking right
00:47:58
Speaker
Oh you can talk to this person because you know your photo hasn't been liked by this man. I think the networking is such a huge huge thing.
00:48:11
Speaker
I would say specifically, I would say that it might be the most important thing, especially for service-based businesses.
Networking and Marketing Strategies
00:48:20
Speaker
I guess it depends a little bit on what industry you're in, but that's something that when we're talking to people who are just getting started, we say, hey, get out there and meet other people in your industry.
00:48:30
Speaker
And I know not every industry, not every service based industry is going to be like this, but the wedding industry for sure. Like if you're a photographer, you can only shoot one wedding on that Saturday in August, right? Like, so if you're booked, they're going to send a list. I know we do. We're going to send a list of five other photographers names to that potential client saying, hey, we're booked, but you should try one of these people. I mean, I just again, with years ago, I would start I would do these monthly happy hours and a lot of it came down to
00:49:01
Speaker
Well, and that's how the blog started when so back in the day, you know, when I had guard a girl and then I started getting all this press attention, all these wedding people were like, Oh, she lives in DC. Let's let's meet. And I got what all these get these requests for like coffee. Like I had like a two year old. I'm like, first of all, drink coffee. And so I couldn't like meet up with all these people for coffee. And so I was like, okay,
00:49:28
Speaker
this is it i'm gonna once a month i'm gonna go to a bar and every person who has. Email me that week about coffee you gonna you can come and like that's how that goes and then when we started the blog well it was actually one of those happy hours that i was like this area really needs a wedding blog and then like all the eyes went to me.
00:49:48
Speaker
But my point is it was that in person that networking thing that's been so amazing and I look around at the local wedding scene and the amount of like. You know businesses connections styled shoots people that are in business together that.
00:50:05
Speaker
We're just connected, just coming to one of my happy hours. People that have these mega huge businesses now, they would come to my happy hour and be like, I just moved here, and I want to become a wedding planner. And this is the only thing that I could find, and you're so amazing for just letting anybody come. And now I look at these people, and it's so awesome to see all the growth and the connections. Best friends.
00:50:32
Speaker
You know people in other people's weddings just because they met at one of our happy hours and as you know, that's like you started rising to site tide society people are so craving for that connection and you're in your industry not in your industry and what I love the most about rising tide society and I've Used to go to meetings around here a lot. It's not just wedding people. It was just like creatives in general all kinds of stuff and so I
00:50:59
Speaker
Like I said, there's no algorithms when it comes to networking. So it's like, the sky's the limit. I mean, I wish I could do more than I can. I've got three little kids and I can't be out all the time, but I just, I love it. I think it's so, so, so effective. It's for the referrals, but then it's also just like bounce ideas off and for somebody to tell you, hey, you're crazy for obsessing over your Instagram follower count. That kind of, it's just, it's so good.
00:51:28
Speaker
Yeah, even to like meeting somebody who is outside your industry. I mean, I know even some of my favorite podcasts aren't related to what Chris and I do, you know, and it's just when you connect with somebody else who's operating in a different space. It's interesting to hear their ideas and how those ideas can be appropriated for your own space and, you know, from an inspiration standpoint, for sure. But yeah, I mean, definitely and I'm a big
00:51:52
Speaker
fan of networking and just getting out there. So I'm glad to hear you chat about it because I think that does get lost when it's all about – I feel like a lot of people make it all out to be all about Instagram or Facebook or these social media platforms or what you're doing on YouTube.
00:52:09
Speaker
Are you incorporating video into your marketing? And I'm not saying any of that's bad or that we shouldn't focus on some of those things. And I think that was kind of the point of your article about Instagram as well. It's just a matter of focusing on the right things. Yeah. And being honest with yourself about what those are. It gets so easy to say, oh, Instagram, Instagram. But then when you take a step back and I'm like, actually, no.
00:52:36
Speaker
Where are my clients coming from? What do they say that they use? What has been most effective for them? For me, it's been the total of all of them. I think they use my website. I think they use Pinterest. I think they use Instagram. They do do referrals a little bit.
00:52:56
Speaker
You know and it one point i wanted to make with the networking it's so funny like so i will meet people or you know maintain my relationships that i made and then you hop on instagram and it's like all my friends or my people that i've networked with so it's like. Just underscores that importance of like getting off the social media and getting into those personal connections because when you meet somebody in person and then you know. There are you know a new follower or a new.
00:53:25
Speaker
you know, lighter and then you're just like chatting back and forth on Instagram and it's like it becomes more of a friend than like a sales channel type of thing. And I want to highlight what you're saying too about finding the channels that people are coming from. Like, you know, I mean, there's some double movement there for sure. Like you need to on one hand figure out what platforms people are on.
00:53:49
Speaker
but also having some sort of measurement of who's coming from where, you know, are they coming for a lot of people coming from Pinterest and do they end up as customers or do a lot of people come from Pinterest and they just they never buy, you know, figuring out what those what those channels are. How do you keep track of where people are coming from?
00:54:08
Speaker
Well, Google Analytics, my website. I was hoping you would say that. Like SEO, one of those things that people are like, oh my gosh, how do I? But it's not as complicated as it sounds. They give you too much information. Sure. I have this little thing. When I used to teach the blogging workshops, it was just like this one pager and it was literally like the three things that you need to know about Google Analytics. It was like, go here. I think it's like acquisitions.
00:54:38
Speaker
traffic and then referrals or something like that and like that's it boom that's all you need to know and I really so yeah I use Google Analytics for sure but then and then that's when like has led to another discovery we were talking actually before we started recording was about like I always thought that I was this wedding business that happened to have a product and
00:55:04
Speaker
And then it was only in the last year or so where I've discovered actually I'm an e-commerce business who happens to be in the wedding industry. And just that shift has been amazing. And actually how I figured that out was I was looking at my Google Analytics and
00:55:25
Speaker
I get, I mean, I have pretty crazy traffic for being such a niche product. And there's a couple blog posts, like there's this one called what's the purpose of a wedding garter. And I want to say I get like, I don't even know, probably like 10, like eight to 10,000 hits a month on it. Yeah. Which is crazy. Yeah. And I can tell you right now, I'm not selling eight to 10,000 products.
00:55:55
Speaker
And if I was, there'd be a whole different story. And then I kind of started to do the numbers here and started to dig more into the buzz term of conversion rate. And oh, if 8,000 people a month are coming on just this blog post alone, why are these people not buying for me? And then you start digging more and I started reading more about conversion rate and this whole thing.
Transitioning to Shopify and Rejecting Facebook
00:56:25
Speaker
I'm very close, days away from switching my website from WordPress to Shopify. Just that little change, shifting more towards being an e-commerce company as opposed to a service base who happens to have a product. I think it's like paying attention to those little... The original question I think you were asking was about...
00:56:49
Speaker
What kind of things do I use? I use Google Analytics, but then it's also just kind of paying attention to the things that are coming at me. I just noticed over the last year, brides were screenshotting my Instagram. They would screenshot something they saw from Pinterest and they weren't necessarily a follower.
00:57:10
Speaker
like maybe they had a hashtag and stumbled upon me or something like that. But it's just it's like it's just paying attention like always having your antennas up to say like, Hey, I've noticed that the last two people that came to me screenshotted something from Instagram. Maybe there's something there. Maybe I should be paying attention to that. And I, you know, I talk a little bit about this in my, the article, the life without the swipe up is that like,
00:57:36
Speaker
Over the past year, the pressure has been on Facebook. Be on Facebook. Have a Facebook group. Do your Facebook pixels. Learn about Facebook ads, and everyone's doing Facebook ads. Facebook, Facebook, not one of my clients in the last five years had said, hey, I saw you on Facebook. I found this product on Facebook. It was being honest with that and saying, okay, all this advice coming in about Facebook, I'm just gonna tune all that out.
00:58:06
Speaker
because I'm sorry and that's not where my clients are. And that's okay, but it's like having the confidence to say I'm gonna tune in on this and tune out on that and I don't need to do all the things. And just because everyone's buzzing about Facebook, I just have always known that that's not where my clients are. And there's nothing wrong with that.
00:58:33
Speaker
People ask me questions all the time. I'm like, it sounds to me like your clients are on Facebook. I would start learning about Facebook. Yeah, for sure. But I think that filter that you have is important because a lot of people who are pushing all that information about Facebook, they're probably trying to sell you something that's Facebook related, right? And that's how it works. And so you're going to hear, oh, this is the marketing tool. These are the opportunities. And buy my course so I can teach you about it.
00:58:59
Speaker
And so having that filter and saying, okay, well, let me look in Google Analytics or however I'm keeping track of these inquiries coming in and these sales and saying one person's come from Facebook or no people's come from Facebook. However, Pinterest is killing it and these networking events that I'm going to are bringing in clients or whatever.
00:59:20
Speaker
but you have systems in place to keep track of those kinds of things and you're intentional about being aware of those things because I think what happens is people say they don't really know where people are coming from because maybe they're not keeping track of it either through Google Analytics or their own tools and then they get kind of overwhelmed like okay, oh, so YouTube, do I have to or Instagram stories or most recently Instagram TV
00:59:44
Speaker
It's like, oh, there's this new thing, I have to be there because everybody's saying I have to be there and it's the future and this and that. And there's this sort of mad rush there when at the end of the day, that might not be best for your business or it might not make sense for your business or it might not be the best use of your time right now. Even if it is a channel that could be used for your business, it might not be the best you see your time right now and especially as
01:00:07
Speaker
you know, solopreneurs are working as a small team, like you have limited time and resources. And you definitely want to make sure that you're putting time and energy into things that work for sure. Yeah, I mean, I get a lot of referrals from wedding planners, right? And so I just, it's like, where did my last client come from? Oh, she was a referral from a wedding planner. So I am like, not just doubling, I'm like tripling down on that, right? Like, I really and some of it's just like,
01:00:36
Speaker
Where did you find me? How did you find me? Oh, I asked a friend and I'm like, okay, you know, triple down on like making sure that like whatever my past clients know that they can, you know, buy from me again or whatever. It's just, it's like, where did your last client come from? Ask them and then going and doing that, doing more of that and really, but it's also, like you said, it's just having that like antenna up that like, Hey,
01:01:04
Speaker
This could be a thing like I should probably pay attention to this. Like to your point, like I don't have like, I don't like track stuff. I don't really use Excel. I don't say, Oh, you know, other than Google analytics, I don't really like keep track of things, but I do like pay attention and kind of like follow stuff. So I don't really have a list of how many clients that sent me a screenshot from Instagram, but it was like the first person did it. And I was like, Oh, okay, that's cool.
01:01:34
Speaker
Maybe I should start putting better stuff on Instagram. And that same with Pinterest, it was like, oh, I really need to get a little better about that. And that's really how it grew. Well, we are nearing time here. If people want to, and we didn't even get to the United With Love stuff, which is a bummer so that I feel like we'll have to... What did you want to know about?
01:01:58
Speaker
It's such a different business, the blog. Yeah. We'll have to have you come back and talk about that business because we had a conversation for those of you listening before the podcast even began just about how selling blogs, especially lately, it's just not something that you hear about.
01:02:17
Speaker
You know, I think most recently, people are probably familiar if you're in the wedding industry with the whole style of a pretty saga, you know, it was sold and then, you know, now it's back to the original owners from what I understand. But you just don't hear about, you know, blogs being bought and sold, I think, in today's world. So I'd love to, you know, have you back sometime to chat about that. If people want to learn more about you and the garter girl and what you have going on, it sounds like you have a website launching in the next couple of days, which is exciting.
01:02:46
Speaker
I'm trying not to put pressure on myself because I am just coming off of this break Yeah, and I really tried to make it a break and not like a working break where I come back stressed out. So It's it'll be launching soon. But my website's just the garter girl calm and or you can find me on instagram at garter girl and Yeah, I just I'm not just love that. I love connecting with people. I love networking I love finding other businesses out there and talking about this kind of stuff because I
01:03:15
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, we're just we're all in it together. I didn't go to school for.
01:03:19
Speaker
owning your own business, you know? But that's one of the interesting things I think just across the board with different guests is how they've leveraged their background in what they're doing today, you know, whether it would be PR and politics or we had another DC based vendor, Jamie Kuchman from Marygold on a couple of episodes ago and she had a background in sales and, you know, she leverages that for... And she's so good at that.
01:03:46
Speaker
Yeah, and she leverages that for her current business. Yeah, I mean, my background is like in crisis communication. So when I came over to the wedding industry, it was like I applied that like same effort and energy and it was like, because everything's so pretty, nobody says no in the wedding industry, everything's so like lovely and, and it's easy to sell, right? Like,
01:04:08
Speaker
But it's very, it's a background in crisis communication. I feel like for weddings, you could be very valuable being that, you know, for some people, at least it's, it ends up being one of the more stressful days. Oh, the wedding, the actual wedding day. Yeah. I mean, what you guys with the wet of actually photographing, I just kind of send my product. But I do think there's like tons of, of cross and overlap and, and, you know, you,
01:04:35
Speaker
It's like, again, having your antennas up and saying like, oh, I like, what would I do here? And that's how can we apply it there? And yeah, I do find even though they're totally different, a lot of overlap and using kind of what you know, right? Like Jamie at Mary Golden Gray, like what she knows is the sales and she's really good at it. And she brings that perspective because that's what she knows.
01:05:01
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, for sure. So well, I want to thank you for joining me this morning. Like I said, we have a bunch more that we could talk about. So hopefully we can get you back on the show to talk about some of those other things. But I'm really excited for people to listen to, especially the media aspect of getting your business started, because I think that kind of stuff, you know, it's not talked a lot about today, but it's still useful today and free. That's right. So thank you. All right. Thank you so much.
01:05:31
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to the Brands That Book Show. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing and leaving a review in iTunes. For show notes and other resources, head on over to devianchrista.com.
01:05:54
Speaker
you