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4: Liturgy - with Anastasia Niklaus and Connor Miller
3 Plays1 year ago
The liturgy is "the work of the people...for the Glory of God!' Here to talk about the importance of music and art we have two very knowledgeable friends of ours: Anastasia Niklaus, Liturgy & Music Coordinator at St. Edwards and the Chair of the Archdiocesan Worship Commission; and Connor Miller, the Director of Music at St. Patrick's and the Office of Worship Administrative Assistant.
The website and resources referenced can be found here:
https://www.connormiller.design
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to DeBucharistic Revival
00:00:16
Speaker
Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode four of the DeBucharistic podcast, DeBucharistic Revival, all about the Eucharistic Revival here in the Archdiocese of Dubuque.
00:00:27
Speaker
My name is Father Jacob Rouse, and I'm the pastor of Notre Dame Parish in Cresco.
00:00:34
Speaker
And I'm very delighted to be joined by my brother priest, Father Kevin.
00:00:38
Speaker
Father Kevin, could you say a little bit about yourself?
00:00:41
Speaker
Yes, I am Father Kevin Earlywine, co-host of the Debuchadnezzar Revival podcast, because that's the name we're going with.
00:00:49
Speaker
Amen.
00:00:49
Speaker
It could be our subtitle, Debuchadnezzar.
00:00:52
Speaker
Anyways, Father Kevin, pastor of St.
00:00:54
Speaker
Patrick's.
00:00:55
Speaker
Catholic Church in Hampton and St.
00:00:56
Speaker
Mary's Church in Ackley.
00:00:59
Speaker
Happy to be here as your co-host.
00:01:00
Speaker
Excellent.
00:01:01
Speaker
Co, meaning together.
Hosts' Musical Passions
00:01:04
Speaker
So today we're going to be talking about art and music.
00:01:06
Speaker
My favorite instrument to play and listen to is the trumpet.
00:01:10
Speaker
Do you have a favorite instrument to listen to or play, Fr.
00:01:13
Speaker
Kevin?
00:01:14
Speaker
Well, I also learned trumpet back in the day, but I've also been taught, well, someone attempted to teach me how to play the spoons.
00:01:21
Speaker
Oh.
00:01:21
Speaker
You know how in like an old bluegrass music, I hit the spoons together and...
00:01:25
Speaker
Yeah, great.
00:01:26
Speaker
Anyways, so I enjoy attempting to play them.
00:01:29
Speaker
I'm not very good at it.
00:01:31
Speaker
You haven't incorporated that into the liturgy yet?
00:01:33
Speaker
Not yet.
00:01:34
Speaker
No, not until liturgical music.
00:01:35
Speaker
No, no.
00:01:36
Speaker
Okay, gotcha.
00:01:37
Speaker
Still figuring out how to put it with Holy God, we praise thy name, you know.
00:01:41
Speaker
We'll see what happens.
00:01:43
Speaker
Anyway, we are joined by two very special guests today instead of one, Connor Miller and Anastasia.
Key Guests: Anastasia and Connor
00:01:51
Speaker
Both are deeply involved in liturgy and music and worship for the Archdiocese.
00:01:57
Speaker
Anastasia, can you share your name and where you are and a little bit about yourself?
00:02:01
Speaker
Yeah, honored to be here.
00:02:03
Speaker
Anastasia Nicholas.
00:02:05
Speaker
And I currently minister at St.
00:02:07
Speaker
Edward Parish with Liturgy and Music in Waterloo.
00:02:11
Speaker
Also, I'm blessed to be the chair of the Archdiocesan Worship Commission.
00:02:16
Speaker
And so really just get to be steeped in the liturgy.
00:02:20
Speaker
I began involvement with music at Mass.
00:02:25
Speaker
I was kind of commissioned into it in fifth grade and kind of have been at it ever since from those slow, humble starts.
00:02:32
Speaker
So, yeah, I...
00:02:34
Speaker
have ministered in various areas of the diocese and married like youth ministry, campus ministry, and kind of settled in liturgical ministry.
00:02:45
Speaker
So you've seen it all.
00:02:46
Speaker
I've seen it all.
00:02:47
Speaker
More or less.
00:02:48
Speaker
What is your favorite instrument to listen to and or play?
00:02:52
Speaker
That's a tough one for me.
00:02:54
Speaker
I played French horn in high school, but I never really played it well.
00:02:58
Speaker
I love the way it sounds when it is played well.
00:03:01
Speaker
And the instrument I've always wanted to play is the violin slash fiddle.
00:03:06
Speaker
I just think it adds so much to any sort of music, both liturgical and otherwise.
00:03:11
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:03:12
Speaker
Well, the French horn is a very noble instrument, no matter how you play it.
00:03:15
Speaker
So that's good.
00:03:17
Speaker
And the fiddle pairs well with spoons, I just want to say.
00:03:21
Speaker
Right.
00:03:22
Speaker
We could have a band after this.
00:03:24
Speaker
Our next guest is Connor Miller.
00:03:28
Speaker
Can you say a little bit about yourself and where you're working?
00:03:30
Speaker
Yeah, my name is Connor Miller, and I currently serve as the director of music at St.
00:03:36
Speaker
Patrick Catholic Church in Cedar Rapids.
00:03:39
Speaker
And I also work part time as an administrative assistant in the office of worship for the Archdiocese of Dubuque.
00:03:47
Speaker
I was born and raised here in Cedar Rapids and started doing music in middle school and started playing specifically for the liturgy piano in middle school.
00:03:58
Speaker
Kind of continued that throughout high school.
00:04:01
Speaker
I graduated in 2017 from Xavier in Cedar Rapids.
00:04:06
Speaker
And after high school, I was ready to just make it more of a hobby.
00:04:10
Speaker
So I went to college for degrees in graphic design and theology.
00:04:15
Speaker
And about a week into that, I was informed that there's a pastoral music ministry degree that I should have considered.
00:04:24
Speaker
And after a moment in Eucharistic adoration and some consolation from the Holy Spirit, I decided to kind of change that path and ended up here back home in good old CR.
00:04:39
Speaker
That's, that's great.
00:04:41
Speaker
And we're from the same parish growing up in the same high school, and our parents are friends.
00:04:49
Speaker
And so that's pretty cool.
00:04:50
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:04:51
Speaker
You are one heck of a trumpet instructor instructor.
00:04:55
Speaker
Oh, well, thank you once upon a time.
00:05:00
Speaker
Yes.
00:05:02
Speaker
What is your favorite instrument, Connor, to listen to and or play?
00:05:06
Speaker
To play a pipe organ.
00:05:09
Speaker
I just think it's such a beautiful instrument in the wide range of things you can do with it, from the quietest string section to the brassiest brass section.
00:05:21
Speaker
um so yeah um that's a fun one to play to listen to uh cello um and i'd love to learn that someday a nice solid string instrument so yeah very good well the organ is objectively the king of all the instruments yeah so great choice um so we've done some introduction but um as we're going to be talking about music and art um
00:05:47
Speaker
I'd like to, Anastasia, can you go either like over the span of your life or even just pick one pretty meaningful
The Role of Music in Worship
00:05:54
Speaker
moment?
00:05:54
Speaker
What has music meant to you and what are ways or experiences where music has been helpful in your life or spiritual life or personal life?
00:06:06
Speaker
Yeah, I think that music's kind of been a thread throughout my life just to connect me to other people, actually.
00:06:15
Speaker
So I found that like in college, I was in college when alternative music was just becoming a thing.
00:06:21
Speaker
And so it kind of helped me learn new avenues of music with friendships.
00:06:28
Speaker
And just in different times of loss, I found that song really can maybe express things that I couldn't express with just words, but music helps with that.
00:06:41
Speaker
And so I just think it's so interesting how, as I think about that, like that's been true with secular music.
00:06:48
Speaker
And then as I've become more and more involved with the church, just to see families at times like funerals or weddings and just how the music really
00:06:57
Speaker
does touch a deeper chord.
00:06:59
Speaker
You know, God gave us that just to be able to really connect in a higher realm, I think.
00:07:07
Speaker
That's beautiful.
00:07:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:11
Speaker
Same question.
00:07:12
Speaker
No, I absolutely agree.
00:07:14
Speaker
And that was like the same line of thinking I had.
00:07:16
Speaker
Like it offers so much more than just what spoken word can.
00:07:22
Speaker
I was reminded of, or constantly reminded of Hans Christian Andersen quote, where words fail, music speaks.
00:07:31
Speaker
And as I was kind of reflecting and preparing for today, that came back up.
00:07:35
Speaker
And it, yeah, it just...
00:07:38
Speaker
it elevates it.
00:07:40
Speaker
Our thoughts, our prayers.
00:07:42
Speaker
And I know, yeah, I found that especially impactful and meaningful.
00:07:47
Speaker
I think of some of the conferences I've attended, whether that be a Steubenville conference or a Sikh conference, when you're in adoration and just struggling to find the words to express what it means to be there in the presence of the Lord in this intimate moment.
00:08:05
Speaker
Um,
00:08:06
Speaker
Sometimes, yeah, those words just fill that void so well.
00:08:11
Speaker
And then specifically 2019 at the Sikh conference in Indianapolis, they had been using antiphons for the day.
00:08:23
Speaker
And the text the church had given for that day was, Oh Lord, our Lord, how majestic is your name and all the earth.
00:08:31
Speaker
So just sitting there after having received our Lord and exclaiming that, just a powerful moment that sticks out to me specifically relating to liturgical music and how it lends itself to prayer and elevating it.
00:08:51
Speaker
Beautiful.
00:08:52
Speaker
Thank you.
00:08:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:53
Speaker
So that, that's really beautiful.
00:08:56
Speaker
And yeah, so that actually is a nice transition into our next question.
00:09:00
Speaker
As you were going to say something, Father Jacob.
00:09:02
Speaker
Oh, go ahead.
00:09:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:04
Speaker
Of just how, so yeah.
00:09:05
Speaker
So music is, can service, touch us and,
00:09:08
Speaker
in deeper ways help us to express deeper things then then we know how to say i like that that music uh what is it where words fail music speaks and how that works in our personal lives and prayer lives and everything but you kind of set us up there connor to to so specifically so music can can help in many ways but kind of more specifically how is it how does music serve uh more specifically the liturgy and since this is a eucharistic revival podcast kind of
00:09:34
Speaker
leading towards specifically kind of the Eucharistic mystery.
00:09:38
Speaker
And so whoever wants to field that question first.
00:09:42
Speaker
You can say it.
00:09:44
Speaker
Can't point at each other.
00:09:47
Speaker
All right.
00:09:47
Speaker
We both pointed at each other.
00:09:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:50
Speaker
I just think it's such a big question.
00:09:52
Speaker
So I just think when it comes to the Eucharistic mystery, what I think music helps with is
00:10:02
Speaker
the act of us all singing together really calls us to recognize that, especially as Catholics, it's never just me and Jesus.
00:10:11
Speaker
While that relationship is important, my relationship with Jesus matters, you know, amazingly.
00:10:19
Speaker
At the same time, it's never just me and Jesus.
00:10:22
Speaker
It's all of us together.
00:10:24
Speaker
And so all of us raising our voices together in a liturgy and particularly at mass, I just think really speaks to
00:10:32
Speaker
just the beauty that God can create.
00:10:35
Speaker
And especially, I mean, I think there's people who will say like, well, but I don't have a voice like you just sing.
00:10:39
Speaker
And like, God doesn't care.
00:10:41
Speaker
You know, I just think particularly one of my favorite moments in mass is the preface before the holy, holy.
00:10:51
Speaker
And as musicians, we're always prepared to hear words such as, and with all the angels and saints, we, you know, we lift up our voices and song or, you know, something more eloquent than that at mass.
00:11:01
Speaker
But
00:11:02
Speaker
it's like our cue and it's also the truth, you know, like we really are.
00:11:07
Speaker
The angels and saints are there worshiping at heaven and we get to join them as we sing that song.
00:11:14
Speaker
And it's just like, you know, if you really think about the impact of that, like how amazing.
00:11:20
Speaker
And then when we sing the amen, the highest point of the whole liturgy, just really, yeah, we believe that it's the truth.
00:11:28
Speaker
So anyway, that's just a few thoughts that come to mind right away.
00:11:31
Speaker
Beautiful.
00:11:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:33
Speaker
Singing with the angels and saints being swept up in the heavenly song.
00:11:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:37
Speaker
It's just amazing to me.
00:11:38
Speaker
Sorry, I'm coming in again.
00:11:39
Speaker
But so I have had some significant losses in my life, including my husband and my mother.
00:11:46
Speaker
And I just think like I don't even ever feel alone, you know, because I am at mass often and I pray that they're among those.
00:11:59
Speaker
saints that I'm praying with and singing with at that moment.
00:12:03
Speaker
And so just, I think music connects us beyond this world.
00:12:07
Speaker
It's just amazing.
00:12:09
Speaker
Like, praise God.
00:12:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:12
Speaker
I just, to add to that, that reminds me when you're talking.
00:12:16
Speaker
So there's a scene I love, so I'm kind of a book nerd, and I love Lord of the Rings and J.R.R.
00:12:21
Speaker
Tolkien.
00:12:22
Speaker
But in his book, The Cimmerillion, which is kind of his history book of Middle Earth fiction, of course, but he himself being a devout Catholic, there's a lot of beautiful, deep spiritual truths.
00:12:33
Speaker
And he depicts the creation of his fantasy world with sort of the God, the creator God figure.
00:12:41
Speaker
singing the world into being and so then as all the other kind of spiritual beings are created all the other gods they like are all singing in harmony in the unfolding of this creation and I just think that's really beautiful so it was like how all of creation kind of as it unfolds is sort of being taken up into kind of this song of kind of this cosmic song together and everything and that's exactly what we're participating in in that so that's what I thought when you were staying there
00:13:09
Speaker
Oh, I want to add the dark side of that, Father Kevin.
Theological Insights: Music and Creation
00:13:13
Speaker
Melkor is in there and he thinks he's the most beautiful and he sings his song the loudest and doesn't match with everyone else and then sows discord in the land.
00:13:23
Speaker
He's the Satan figure.
00:13:25
Speaker
So you can read into that what you will.
00:13:27
Speaker
But anyway, we all are joining together in song.
00:13:31
Speaker
And to finish, we're going to finish that thought.
00:13:34
Speaker
What's beautiful about that is that he uses that as a beautiful explanation of why God allows evil, because then the Melchor, the Satan figure, he sings dissonance into the creative song.
00:13:46
Speaker
But then he talks about how the creator God in his providence is.
00:13:49
Speaker
then weaves it into his great symphony of using the discord and dissonances to resolve into beautiful harmonies and everything.
00:13:57
Speaker
So it's exactly how he then, to the frustration of evil, weaves it into his even greater plan, which I think is such a beautiful example.
00:14:05
Speaker
of how God, you know, how, why, you know, there's the great question, why does God allow evil?
00:14:10
Speaker
And we could talk for an hour about that, but we'd get, we have, of course, of our central subject, but I think it just beautifully demonstrates kind of like, I think it's such a beautiful image of like how, even when there is evil in discord,
00:14:23
Speaker
like how God can weave it into, when we give it over to him, he can weave it into something greater.
00:14:29
Speaker
You know, that doesn't mean he wants and desires evil for us, but that his providence is such that kind of the old expression, God can draw straight with crooked lines.
00:14:36
Speaker
So, or how he can take something as horrific as a crucifixion and use that to be then the source of all our peace, the source of love, the source of reconciliation and our salvation.
00:14:47
Speaker
So.
00:14:48
Speaker
A new life.
00:14:49
Speaker
A new life, right?
00:14:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:50
Speaker
He takes us torturous,
00:14:52
Speaker
thing of death that's awful and evil and agonizing and brings new life divine life and um yeah exactly and to anastasia's previous point um not that the satan figure and melkor sowing discord and dissension is the person in the congregation who cannot sing but what i'm saying is yes you're welcome the person who uh just lets it loose even though they can't sing like
00:15:19
Speaker
that's your part of the community and you're part of the congregation.
00:15:21
Speaker
And yeah, we all have a part to play.
00:15:25
Speaker
So Connor's chomping at the bit to answer that question that we got off track due to Tolkien, which could be another episode.
00:15:33
Speaker
But yeah, I agree like 100%, like this idea of community.
00:15:40
Speaker
And that's something I always highlight when talking about the liturgy, specifically this moment with the song juice, the Holy Holy.
00:15:49
Speaker
And that call to join all of the angels and the saints.
00:15:54
Speaker
I think it's easy to just kind of have that go in one ear and out the other.
00:15:59
Speaker
But like, that's a huge moment where we're reminded what we're celebrating in this hour here on earth.
00:16:06
Speaker
is happening for eternity and we're just getting this glimpse of it even though it may be veiled um another thing i i mentioned frequently about that um is there was a study done i believe in great britain uh with people who sing together and make music together and it found that um when they make music together their heartbeats will align it's like in this moment
00:16:31
Speaker
Our heartbeats align with heavens.
00:16:33
Speaker
And I just think that's like super poignant when it comes to the Eucharistic celebration and the wedding feast of the Lamb.
00:16:45
Speaker
I need to go lay down and think about that for a while.
00:16:47
Speaker
That just gave me chills.
00:16:48
Speaker
That's amazing.
00:16:51
Speaker
Wow.
00:16:52
Speaker
Well, a long heartbeat, I might just add to that.
00:16:55
Speaker
So I do talk about how part of the spiritual life is sort of a divine heart transplant, right?
00:17:00
Speaker
So like it's our heart being transformed into being filled with the heart of Jesus Christ, the sacred heart.
00:17:08
Speaker
And how in a very poignant way, like how that comes to us in the Eucharist, like there's some beautiful things.
00:17:14
Speaker
um connections between the eucharist and like the heart of jesus christ like we believe it is his real presence body blood soul and divinity but then there's some really neat things with eucharistic miracles how um
00:17:26
Speaker
that at times the host has manifested living flesh and blood and how that has often been and they've done scientific studies and it's like living heart tissue.
00:17:39
Speaker
So like in this really real way of like how it just, and music aligning our hearts with the Lord.
00:17:45
Speaker
So like it's preparing us to in an even deeper way in reception of the Eucharist for our hearts to beat with his.
00:17:51
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:17:54
Speaker
Yeah, that just makes me think too, like, oh, I think those miracles are so miraculous, of course, like just amazing beyond belief.
00:18:03
Speaker
But then also how his heart then is beating, like upon reception of the Lord, we're called, you know, we've become one with him.
00:18:13
Speaker
So it's like music.
00:18:14
Speaker
It's like the actual physical reception.
00:18:17
Speaker
And then the idea that we're meant to continue this song as we leave, you know, as we go forth.
00:18:23
Speaker
So
00:18:24
Speaker
just kind of a beautiful way to think about.
00:18:27
Speaker
I'm thinking about it was like the example you gave from Tolkien and how, you know, maybe the creator began the world with song and then just how
Understanding Liturgy
00:18:37
Speaker
song could really be a unit of force beyond the walls of nature.
00:18:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:44
Speaker
Beautiful.
00:18:45
Speaker
Thank you.
00:18:47
Speaker
I have a two pronged question.
00:18:50
Speaker
Only the Blessed Virgin assumed.
00:18:52
Speaker
And so I don't want to assume that our listeners.
00:18:55
Speaker
Well, some might, but the definition of liturgy itself, whether you want to go with the Greek or what it means to us right now in these contemporary times.
00:19:06
Speaker
But what is what is liturgy and what does it mean to you?
00:19:11
Speaker
And then the second part is that probably means some things then we're tapping into emotion.
00:19:15
Speaker
But if there's a liturgy that probably means do we just let our emotions go wild and we sing and dance and do whatever and play whatever song?
00:19:22
Speaker
I'm not sure.
00:19:23
Speaker
So can can one of you jump on that real quick?
00:19:31
Speaker
I'll try.
00:19:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:32
Speaker
So liturgy, you know, means the work of the people.
00:19:37
Speaker
And I like to add for the glory of God, because it's not just about the work of the people.
00:19:42
Speaker
It's not about us only.
00:19:44
Speaker
We matter, but it's really to glorify God.
00:19:48
Speaker
And so I think knowing that it comes from that just speaks a lot to what we're about.
00:19:54
Speaker
And I think one of the beauties of our Catholic faith is that we're given what are called rubrics or guidelines by which to do that, because if we're going to be universal, which is what Catholic means,
00:20:09
Speaker
We can't just make it all up.
00:20:11
Speaker
And again, it's, I think it's easy to make it all about us if we're just making like, oh, I like this reading.
00:20:17
Speaker
I like this song, you know?
00:20:18
Speaker
So I know I work with children a lot and, um,
00:20:23
Speaker
sometimes they'll like say if they, they'll be pretty clear about if they like a song or not.
00:20:28
Speaker
Right.
00:20:29
Speaker
And, uh, I'll just remind them, like, I don't necessarily like every song I choose, but it's the right song because it matches the, maybe the readings of the day, the theme of the day and, um, can still draw us deeper into the mystery of God.
00:20:45
Speaker
So I think those are some of the things I think about when making choices.
00:20:49
Speaker
Um,
00:20:50
Speaker
Because, yeah, there's a lot of options, but, you know, I'm not going to necessarily sing the song I listened to on the top 40.
00:20:59
Speaker
I won't be singing the song.
00:21:00
Speaker
I won't be singing necessarily.
00:21:01
Speaker
I won't be singing that song in the liturgy because it just wasn't created with the idea of ritual dimension as part of it.
00:21:11
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:21:13
Speaker
So no Beyonce during mass, huh?
00:21:15
Speaker
Not during mass.
00:21:16
Speaker
We used to joke when I was working at a campus ministry, though, that we would have like a prince.
00:21:24
Speaker
Yeah, it's not going to happen, but it's not based on purple rain.
00:21:28
Speaker
I was just, purple rain down or something.
00:21:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:34
Speaker
We'll add in Kevin's spoons and then it'll be great.
00:21:37
Speaker
That's right.
00:21:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:39
Speaker
We used to, I just, I remember at Loris college, there was a hymnal called that was titled journey songs that I would see in the sacristy.
00:21:46
Speaker
And I always thought it was funny.
00:21:47
Speaker
Cause I, I then jokingly would say, you know, how we should have like a journey mass.
00:21:52
Speaker
So all themed around or stylized after the band journey, you know, like don't stop believing in any way you want it.
00:22:00
Speaker
With open arms.
00:22:01
Speaker
Yes.
00:22:03
Speaker
So that's enough of that.
00:22:07
Speaker
What does liturgy mean to you?
00:22:09
Speaker
And yeah, I guess.
00:22:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:12
Speaker
Like Anastasia said, it's it's the work of the people for the glory of God.
00:22:16
Speaker
And I think that's very important.
00:22:20
Speaker
The glory of God.
00:22:21
Speaker
And also like it's.
00:22:23
Speaker
our opportunity with this act of public worship liturgy is public worship in the church, um, to help kind of transform our hearts and, uh,
00:22:34
Speaker
talking about what we were earlier in the podcast.
00:22:38
Speaker
But yeah, transforming our hearts in this moment of public worship, in the liturgy, and the fact that the church does give us rubrics and words to pray with to conform our hearts to Christ's.
00:22:54
Speaker
And I think there's also a beautiful space, like the Catholic faith is a both and faith.
00:23:00
Speaker
So there's also like the devotional aspects where like if there is a specific song you can pray with that might not fit in the liturgy, like there's still space for that.
00:23:11
Speaker
Maybe not in the public worship, but in private devotional worship.
00:23:15
Speaker
And I think, yeah, it's important to have both of those in the life of faith of a Christian and not to forget one or the other.
00:23:27
Speaker
The liturgy, the Eucharist is the source and summit of our faith.
00:23:31
Speaker
There's a two-way thing there.
00:23:32
Speaker
So everything we do in the liturgy should impact how we pray devotionally and how we pray devotionally should impact how we experience the liturgy.
00:23:43
Speaker
There's a two-way street there.
00:23:48
Speaker
I love that, Connor.
00:23:50
Speaker
I think that I'm so glad that you mentioned that public aspect of it and how that really melds together.
00:23:58
Speaker
Because I think sometimes people get the misconception that somehow the church is saying that certain music isn't worthy or good because it isn't sung within the walls of the church.
00:24:13
Speaker
And
00:24:13
Speaker
I don't think that that's what we're saying.
00:24:16
Speaker
Like there's lots of music that's wonderful for personal devotion, as you say.
00:24:21
Speaker
It just, again, doesn't meet the standard of really being intended for public worship and that ritual dimension.
00:24:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:31
Speaker
Yeah, I think we would say in liturgy, like music is doing a specific servicing in a particular action, right?
00:24:40
Speaker
And which is the service of these particular texts and prayers and what is happening here, right?
00:24:45
Speaker
Like so offertory, we're offering our lives up to the Lord communion, we're entering into this Eucharistic mystery.
00:24:52
Speaker
So the music should be a reflection of how is it we're praying corporately.
00:24:56
Speaker
So yeah.
00:24:57
Speaker
And when I give a talk on prayer, I talk when I've given talks to my people, I talk about that very thing that we both our prayer life should have both our private personal prayer.
Balancing Personal Preferences with Communal Worship
00:25:07
Speaker
Right.
00:25:07
Speaker
Devotional prayers, we might call it.
00:25:08
Speaker
But then there's also this dimension of a public liturgical prayer.
00:25:11
Speaker
And you need both.
00:25:12
Speaker
Right.
00:25:12
Speaker
Because if you just go to mass but never have a personal prayer life, like it can become easily just to seem like empty ritual or vice versa.
00:25:20
Speaker
If I just have my own personal prayer life, but I never go to church, then I then it's really tempting to make it just about me.
00:25:27
Speaker
And I think part of the beautiful thing, and you guys kind of alluded to this already, is part of liturgy and of the Eucharistic mystery, therefore, and thus the music in it is not just about what I like, but it's this thing is transforming me.
00:25:42
Speaker
Like I go to liturgy to be shaped and formed by it.
00:25:46
Speaker
So it's not about tailoring it like disc jockey, just making the playlist that I like for this particular thing.
00:25:52
Speaker
But it's about I'm going and then these rituals, these prayers, these words, and the music is at service of that, of me being transformed by the mystery that we're encountering.
00:26:02
Speaker
I'm really glad you brought up what I like because I know there are certain songs that father Jacob really, really likes.
00:26:08
Speaker
And there are certain songs that father Jacob does not like.
00:26:11
Speaker
And some of them are, uh, melodic tastes.
00:26:14
Speaker
Uh, some of them are theology and some of them are just, I hate that because I'm, I don't know, immature and don't want to reflect.
00:26:19
Speaker
Um, so I think the fact that there's, um,
00:26:22
Speaker
And I actually do.
00:26:23
Speaker
I love the rubrics.
00:26:24
Speaker
I love pouring through and learning.
00:26:26
Speaker
It seems like I learned something every time.
00:26:28
Speaker
Oh, wait, we're supposed to be doing that?
00:26:30
Speaker
Not supposed to be doing that?
00:26:31
Speaker
I don't see it as a really strict rule following.
00:26:35
Speaker
I see it as this is the guidelines for how we have a universal liturgy.
00:26:41
Speaker
So whether it's a daily mass or whether it's the Easter vigil,
00:26:45
Speaker
those, those, those texts in there are really helpful.
00:26:48
Speaker
So yeah, it's not about, this isn't about personal preference.
00:26:51
Speaker
This is about my preference for the whole, I think.
00:26:58
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:59
Speaker
I like how you said to Father Kevin that it forms us.
00:27:03
Speaker
And I know that's something that as a person who is choosing the music that the people of God will sing, I really,
00:27:12
Speaker
think about that aspect of it a lot.
00:27:15
Speaker
Like these, the music that we're choosing is going, the words we sing are going to form us.
00:27:23
Speaker
So like just making sure that those words are worthy.
00:27:26
Speaker
It makes me kind of think of a quote that there's a document of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops Sing to the Lord Music and Divine Worship.
00:27:36
Speaker
That's a kind of a guideline to what to choose.
00:27:39
Speaker
And
00:27:40
Speaker
I always love the introductions of these documents because there's just so much beauty in them.
00:27:45
Speaker
And it speaks a cry from deep within our being.
00:27:49
Speaker
Music is a way for God to lead us to the realm of higher things.
00:27:54
Speaker
And yeah, and so choices should do that and not just be about if I like it or not.
00:28:02
Speaker
Amen.
00:28:05
Speaker
Beautiful.
00:28:07
Speaker
Thank you.
00:28:08
Speaker
Wow.
00:28:08
Speaker
I think we covered good things.
00:28:10
Speaker
That was a great conversation.
Eucharistic Revival: Personal and Communal Aspects
00:28:13
Speaker
Well, before we wrap up and everything, feel free to share any more thoughts you have about music and liturgy, but kind of to make it more connecting more explicitly to Eucharistic revival.
00:28:23
Speaker
As you know, the reason we're doing this podcast is because we're in this season of
00:28:27
Speaker
when the bishops have called in the United States for Eucharistic Revival.
00:28:31
Speaker
And so this is trying to be at service of that, particularly in the Archdiocese of Dubuque.
00:28:36
Speaker
So just some thoughts on that.
00:28:37
Speaker
And feel free, again, since we're talking about music and beauty and how it fits away with that.
00:28:42
Speaker
But basically, Eucharistic Revival, why does it matter?
00:28:45
Speaker
And what would you want to be like one takeaway for our listeners to be as we kind of journey on this, I mean, day in general, but with kind of an eye towards Eucharistic Revival?
00:28:58
Speaker
Yeah, I think... Oh, God.
00:29:00
Speaker
I was all untold.
00:29:03
Speaker
I think in this time of Eucharistic revival, like, it's such a beautiful...
00:29:09
Speaker
point in everyone's faith life to like re-examine what our relationship with the Eucharist is.
00:29:16
Speaker
Um, a good reminder.
00:29:17
Speaker
I think it's easy to fall into a, I take this for granted kind of camp and just go through the motions.
00:29:24
Speaker
Um, so in this time specifically to take a step back and re-examine like Eucharistic devotion, um, and what that looks like for each person.
00:29:36
Speaker
And then like one tangible to take away, I think like be diligent about praying in the liturgy and noticing those words and phrases like singing with all the angels and the saints or other things throughout the Eucharistic prayer that help remind us that we are participating in something eternal and beyond what we're just experiencing.
00:30:02
Speaker
in here and now.
00:30:03
Speaker
I think that can be huge for developing that Eucharistic devotion as well.
00:30:15
Speaker
Yeah, I would agree with that too.
00:30:18
Speaker
I think that really that call to pray
00:30:22
Speaker
I mean, music, like we're called to sing the liturgy, right?
00:30:25
Speaker
So music isn't just something that's added on and liturgy isn't just a thing we could choose to do.
00:30:34
Speaker
You know, like this is, um, uh, we're singing the liturgy.
00:30:38
Speaker
It's like actually part of the prayer and important part of it.
00:30:41
Speaker
So I would encourage people to really, um, just as Connor just said, to really be praying, um,
00:30:48
Speaker
just really put your heart into it, right?
00:30:50
Speaker
We put our heart into so many other aspects of our life.
00:30:54
Speaker
And how much more do you get out of something if you're putting your heart into it?
00:30:57
Speaker
And really, I think this Eucharistic revival is calling me and I think us to a deeper relationship with Jesus in the Eucharist.
00:31:07
Speaker
And that means Jesus himself and Jesus and my brother and sister.
00:31:12
Speaker
So I just think that it really is calling us to
00:31:15
Speaker
a deeper relationship in a time when I think we all could agree there's been some ruptures and division in the world and in the church.
00:31:25
Speaker
I think this is really a call to allow the Holy Spirit to draw us deeper into the life of Christ.
00:31:33
Speaker
Amen.
00:31:35
Speaker
Thank you.
00:31:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:37
Speaker
Being forged into the body of Christ.
00:31:40
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:31:42
Speaker
Beautiful.
00:31:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:45
Speaker
Well, speaking of Eucharistic revival, I want to give a shout out also to Connor Miller, who's here with us.
00:31:53
Speaker
But some of you may or may not know, but we are joined with us today.
00:31:57
Speaker
We have a quasi local celebrity in our midst.
00:32:00
Speaker
So on the National Eucharistic Revival movement, sort of their website and everything.
00:32:06
Speaker
And
00:32:06
Speaker
leading towards a big national Eucharistic conference that'll be happening in June, I think, of 2024.
Artistic Contributions to the Revival
00:32:14
Speaker
But along the way, as part of that, they're having some different art pieces of different Eucharistic saints, I believe.
00:32:21
Speaker
Is that correct?
00:32:22
Speaker
Like saints who kind of... Witnesses.
00:32:25
Speaker
They're not all saints yet.
00:32:28
Speaker
Witnesses.
00:32:29
Speaker
Okay.
00:32:29
Speaker
So yeah, witnesses.
00:32:30
Speaker
Venerables, beatifieds, and some saints, but
00:32:33
Speaker
But figures who have been a great Eucharistic witness through their devotion to the Eucharist, through the way they live their lives flowing to or from the Eucharistic mystery, or the way they inspire devotion to the Eucharist and others, which is really, really cool.
00:32:46
Speaker
But what's especially really cool about that is the person that's making the art pieces is in our midst right now, aka Connor Miller is making some artistic pieces.
00:32:57
Speaker
So, Connor, tell us a little bit about that.
00:33:01
Speaker
please, about the art that you're doing for the Eucharistic Revival along those lines.
00:33:05
Speaker
Sure.
00:33:06
Speaker
Say more.
00:33:07
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:33:08
Speaker
In my free time, outside of doing music at the church, for the church and for the glory of God, I also do graphic design and artwork, also for the glory of God.
00:33:20
Speaker
And through this...
00:33:23
Speaker
was invited to help participate in creating art for the National Eucharistic Revival.
00:33:30
Speaker
So this started back in July.
00:33:33
Speaker
Each month leading up to the Eucharistic Congress in Indianapolis, they are highlighting an American Eucharistic Witness.
00:33:41
Speaker
So as you said, someone who exemplified what it means to live a Eucharistic life.
00:33:48
Speaker
We have everyone from Cardinal Francis George.
00:33:51
Speaker
He was the first one.
00:33:53
Speaker
Father Augustus Tolton, who is well on his way to Saint Hood.
00:33:58
Speaker
I just wrapped up sketches for next month's Charlene Richard.
00:34:03
Speaker
She's a young girl out of Louisiana.
00:34:07
Speaker
So people from all walks of life who have really exemplified what it means to live a Eucharistic life.
00:34:15
Speaker
And with each of those, they are having someone write an essay about how this person exemplified that Eucharistic life.
00:34:24
Speaker
And with the essay, I'm doing a woodcut print of each of them to kind of creatively depict and call to mind who this person was.
00:34:38
Speaker
So I'm incredibly honored and blessed that I'm able to contribute in that way.
00:34:43
Speaker
And it's been really neat to learn all of these stories and be able to bring these people to life through a unique medium in woodcut printmaking.
00:34:58
Speaker
Wow, that's that's really cool to go from in our conversation about what is it audio music?
00:35:07
Speaker
I mean, the music of sound or art of sound and music and then go to a visual medium as well.
00:35:13
Speaker
So you're multi express expressive.
00:35:17
Speaker
Is there like a website or a catalog or anything that we could see?
00:35:21
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:35:22
Speaker
So all of these with the essays are being featured on the Eucharistic Revival website.
00:35:28
Speaker
So eucharisticrevival.org slash blog.
00:35:33
Speaker
I think the most recent one you'll see in there is Dorothy Day.
00:35:38
Speaker
And then it's also a great resource.
00:35:41
Speaker
They have a good breakdown explaining the parts of the mass and a number of other things that are just useful in developing our Eucharistic devotions and relationship with the Eucharist.
00:35:53
Speaker
So you can check it out there.
00:35:54
Speaker
Other artwork of mine you can find at www.conormiller.design.
00:36:00
Speaker
And that features all of that artwork plus some other religious artwork that I have been up to
Community Events and Participation
00:36:07
Speaker
in the past.
00:36:10
Speaker
That's excellent.
00:36:11
Speaker
I will definitely put those two websites in the show notes and description of this episode.
00:36:15
Speaker
Yeah, I was going to ask if they were show notes.
00:36:18
Speaker
That's wonderful.
00:36:19
Speaker
They're so awesome.
00:36:20
Speaker
Also, can we feature those in our local Dubuque Eucharistic Revival website?
00:36:27
Speaker
Archdiocese Dubuque slash Eucharistic Revival that Connor conveniently also manages and posts on.
00:36:31
Speaker
Yeah, I might know a guy.
00:36:34
Speaker
Okay, great.
00:36:35
Speaker
So is there a way you can put that art and maybe those blog pieces too directly on our Dubuque website as well?
00:36:42
Speaker
Which is a nice segue into a reminder to our listeners for things going on specifically in the Archdiocese of Dubuque, visit dbqarch.org slash archdiocesan-eucharistic-revival or just Google Archdiocese of Dubuque Eucharistic Revival and you will find it.
00:36:58
Speaker
It is our page that we try to stay updated with different events going on.
00:37:02
Speaker
throughout the Archdiocese of Eucharistic Revival events.
00:37:05
Speaker
A big thing coming up, our local speaker, Anthony Digman, has been traveling around and giving different talks in Eucharistic Revival.
00:37:11
Speaker
So you can check that out about where he'll be in
00:37:14
Speaker
in upcoming things, as well as there has been a traveling Eucharistic miracles display that has been at various parishes throughout the archdiocese.
00:37:23
Speaker
And also, of course, be remembered to check your local parish or surrounding parishes for different Eucharistic revival-y things.
00:37:31
Speaker
I know there's been a number of Eucharistic revival studies going on at some parishes and various other talks as well.
00:37:37
Speaker
So lots of exciting things coming up, and you can check all that out on our websites, on the local level, and also on the national level.
00:37:43
Speaker
So there you go.
00:37:47
Speaker
Well, this has been a truly anointed and fascinating conversation.
00:37:51
Speaker
And I know we could go on for a lot longer too, but maybe we'll have a part two.
00:37:56
Speaker
One final thing I'd like to share, Anastasia and I crossed paths at UNI.
00:38:02
Speaker
And I can't remember if a saint, I read this in a saint writing somewhere or if Anastasia taught me, or maybe a little bit of both.
00:38:10
Speaker
But I learned that we are all stained glass windows.
00:38:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:16
Speaker
Thomas Merton.
00:38:17
Speaker
Oh, thanks.
00:38:18
Speaker
Okay.
00:38:18
Speaker
I was going to attribute it to you, but we'll give Tommy the credit.
00:38:22
Speaker
But basically, we're all glass windows.
00:38:24
Speaker
If you're looking through transparent windowpane, sure, the light is all pouring in.
00:38:29
Speaker
But then our individuality, our spirituality, our thumbprints, everything that makes us us, sin included, because the stain idea too.
00:38:39
Speaker
But that's what lets the...
00:38:42
Speaker
the light flow in and just, and just make beautiful visual art in the church.
00:38:46
Speaker
So I teach that quite regularly and I attributed to you Anastasia, but now I'll give Thomas Merton the credit as well.
00:38:54
Speaker
So that's Anastasia.
00:38:57
Speaker
So beg, borrow, steal.
00:39:02
Speaker
Anyways.
00:39:03
Speaker
Well, thank you everyone.
00:39:05
Speaker
And listeners too.
00:39:05
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in.
00:39:07
Speaker
This has been, this isn't a fun ongoing journey as we travel and play and adventure all up the mountain to the source and summit that is the Eucharist.
00:39:15
Speaker
So I'll see everyone this weekend.
00:39:18
Speaker
See you in the Eucharist.