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The following podcast is a Jill Devine Media production.
Jill's Struggle with Church
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Christianity has become known for judgy people, strange words, ancient stories, confusing rules, and a members-only mindset. This is why I stayed away from the church for so long, but it's not supposed to be that way.
Podcast Journey Begins
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I'm Jill Devine, a former radio personality with three tattoos, a love for a good tequila, and who's never read the entire Bible.
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Yet here I am hosting a podcast about faith. The normal goes a long way podcast is your home for real conversations with real people using real language about how faith and real life intersect. Welcome to the conversation.
Series Continuation Advice
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Thank you so much for coming back to listen to part two of Normal Goes a Long Way and my conversation about retreating. If you are hitting play for the first time on Normal Goes a Long Way, welcome. I'm Jill Devine, I'm your host, and I would encourage you to hit pause on this conversation because part one, episode 79,
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Yes moments, the importance of retreating. You want to listen to that first because it's going to set you up for this episode. This is a continuation of that episode.
Sharing Personal Stories
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So before I get back into everything, I want to let you know where I'm going to go in this episode. And I also want to share that this is my story. This isn't going to be the same for everyone and all
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I hope for when I record any of these podcast episodes is that if I can just reach one person and help one person, that's it. So maybe my story will encourage you or maybe my story will help you
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I don't know, find a retreat. I don't know exactly what it may do for you, but I hope it helps you.
Retreat Preparation and Anxieties
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So in this episode, we're going to talk about a few days before I left, what happened during retreat and what's happening now that I'm home from retreat. And so let's start with
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A few days before I left, I left on a Friday and the leaders and organizers of the retreat, Fearless Unite and Pastor's Wives Tell All, they made sure to communicate throughout the few days leading up to logistics stuff, you know, what to bring, what not to bring, what time to check in, what to expect, a loose itinerary. And then in every communication, they talked about some of the attacks that we may be experiencing.
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And this was all new to me. So I had no idea. I didn't even think about these things. And I am so glad that they brought it to my attention, to anyone's attention who is going on retreat. And basically they were saying the enemy likes to attack those that are getting ready to retreat.
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The enemy will say that you are not good enough. You're not worthy enough. Your kids need you. Your partner needs you. Your work needs you. You need to say where you are. And I was feeling those things. The two big things that the enemy was attacking me on
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was having two little girls, it's difficult. I have to do so much for them. And my husband has a really crazy schedule where he doesn't typically work nine to five Monday through Friday. He works weekends, he works overnights sometimes. And so for me to go somewhere, it requires
Logistics and Support
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And thank you, thank you, that I have wonderful family and friends that will help out. But it is a lot of organizing and juggling. And sometimes it's just easier to just do it yourself, you know? And also, I didn't want to leave them. The other attack was coming from the you don't know enough.
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I didn't grow up in the church. I've been honest with you about that. That's the whole reason why this podcast has even starting. I have only been in ministry for a few years. And so I am going on a retreat for women in ministry and I don't even know anything. Okay. I take that back. I do know some things, but I feel like someone who's in ministry to go on that retreat, you've got to know a lot of stuff. So those two attacks were happening.
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So I was thankful that the leaders and organizers said they were praying over each participant. They were praying that the enemy would just leave us alone. So Thursday night before I left, I was laying in bed and I had done a lot of journaling and did a lot of things to help ease my mind, bring me to peace, try to bring down the anxious thoughts I had. And of course it didn't work.
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and I am not really one to ask for prayers. It's kind of like asking for help. I need to ask for help more often and I need to ask for prayers for more often, but I knew I couldn't do this alone. So I reached out to three very strong Christian women in my life and told them exactly how I was feeling and how I was
Retreat Journey and Arrival
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you know, contemplating no showing and contemplating making up a lie to not go. And they were so helpful and they were so supportive of me and their prayers were so strong. And so the other thing was I had mentioned Christy Bulware, one of the leaders in the previous episode. And we have a relationship and I wanted to text her
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the week leading up to, but I thought, no, she's too busy. She doesn't have time for little old me. She's got so many things going on. And I wish I would have text her because I kept making up these lies again. Well, I bring that up because on Friday morning,
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dropped the girls off to school, had a little cry in the car, was getting gas because I was going to be driving in about four hours to Branson, Missouri. And I had just finished getting gas and I just started talking to God. And I was like, please, please, please, please, please, please keep me safe. Please keep me on track. Please just be with me. And then I got a text from Christie and
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we had a good little banter back and forth with my honesty of I haven't left yet. And so it worked out great to have her reassurance and I'm on my way. When I get to Branson,
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not the complex where we're staying, but I get into Branson. All of a sudden I feel it coming on. I have a panic attack and so I rush into a gas station and I'm just like patting my face with water. I'm sweating. I'm shaking. I'm an emotional mess. And I finally got myself to calm down and then, um,
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got in the car and then my husband got ahold of me and you know, it was just perfect timing. So he helped calm me down a little bit and then I talked to God again and I made my way to the house where I would be staying.
Retreat Experience and Worship
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Well, before I continue with that, let me just tell you in 2020, summer of 2020, when everyone is starting to venture out a little bit, but not going too far because of COVID, you start hanging out with some people, but you keep it to your houses. And I mean, like that's what we did. There was a family that we were hanging out with and she said, why don't we go somewhere
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and stare at four different walls. So she chose a house in Branson that had a pool, had nice deck, you know, so that we could spend time outside. And anyway, it was a beautiful house. And I remember standing on the deck and looking at the houses down below us and taking a picture of one of them and putting it on my vision board because I loved this style.
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So I pull into the complex. Now we're back to present time. I pull into the complex and I'm like, what the what? This is the complex that we stayed in in 2020. And I was like, no way, no, no, no way. And it immediately had a little bit of comfort brought to me.
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The retreat house that we were staying in was like two houses down from that house that I took a picture of and have on the vision board. So I'm already smiling as I turn in. I'm like, okay, I'm supposed to be here. And then I walk into the house and
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was just greeted with so much enthusiasm and so much love. They did this for every single woman that walks through the door. Christy Bulware gave me a huge hug and it was good. But I was still so, so nervous and so riddled with emotion. I mean, I had just had a panic attack. I mean, things are just crazy. So two of the women from Pastor's Wives Tell All, Jenna
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and Jessica, they took my bags and led me to my room. And we walk in and they're like, this is your room. And I was sharing it with other women and they're like, how are you feeling? And I just immediately like started to well up and I didn't want to cry. I was like, um, I, I don't know. I, uh, I'm nervous. I, I've never been on one of these before. This is all new. And they gave me a hug and they were like, we are so glad you're here. So hold it together.
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pulled it together as fast as I could. Go downstairs and I just start mingling and meeting people. And so we opened up the Friday evening. Well, every session was opened up with worship. So you would worship with some music and then get into a message and then go into small groups. And that was kind of how it was. And then there was some activities throughout the weekend.
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So one of the things that I wanted to address when I went into retreat was this feeling of my relationship with Jesus. Like I know, and we've talked about it on the podcast, that not everyone gets to hear an audible voice of God. Some people have. Some people are
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very open about that. Some people say it's not necessarily a voice, but it is a feeling, like they can feel a presence on their chest. And I'm one of those people that I could keep saying I want this tangible item with Jesus. Like, of course I do. Of course everybody does.
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And I'm making it all about me, but I'm like, if I could just feel his hug, if I could just have a hug, like I love hugs. If I could just have that hug, gosh, then I would know. I would know that. I would just know. So that was one of the things that I.
Group Reflection and Stillness
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came into and it's something that I have been working on. It's my personal relationship with Jesus. And so I was full of emotions, like I said, and so we opened up with worship and one of the very first songs, Goodness of God. And as soon as it started, I started bawling.
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And I thought, oh my gosh, am I the only one? And then I could hear sniffles because I just had my head buried. And then I realized there were boxes of Kleenexes everywhere for a reason. And the reason why this song brought me to tears is a number of reasons, but the main reason is my youngest daughter, Charlie.
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So, Charlie and I have this special bond over music. Now, both my girls love music and love to sing and dance, but there is something with Charlie when we are listening to music together and the way that she sings the lyrics and can catch on.
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She just knows. And so when we're worshiping on Sundays together, there are certain songs that she just gravitates to and dances and sings to over and over and over throughout the week. And goodness of God is one of them.
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The songs that followed goodness of God, I didn't really know, but I knew I couldn't be greedy. All of the songs that I wanted to hear that were special to me, I'd be lying if I didn't think, oh, that'd be amazing. But anyway, I didn't really know the rest of the songs, but came to learn them over the weekend because we would sing the same songs every day.
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One thing that I won't talk about is my time in small group because that involves multiple women and I'm not telling their story just as I wouldn't want them to tell my story. That was private time, trusted time and I hold it
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very close to my heart. So I will not talk about those times, but they were so beneficial and so helpful. And I am so thankful for those women. Now on Saturday,
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woke up, felt good. I felt like I got a lot of tears out on Friday and I just felt re-energized and started making connections with the women, especially my girl Lacey. And it just was, it felt good. And so at one point,
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In the day on Saturday, Jessica from Pastor's Wives Tell All had us do a little be still time. And some people do this on a daily basis, some maybe weekly. But what she wanted us to do was to go outside and be still.
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She said, it's going to be uncomfortable for some of you. Some of you are going to be like, what? I have to sit here for, cause she wanted us there for an hour and a half. I want to sit here for an hour and a half and I can't do anything. I can't be on my phone. I can't, what are you talking about? And on top of that, she wanted us to journal everything that came to our mind, everything. She wanted us to confess sins if we needed to, we needed to get it out on paper. And so her instructions were this,
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Do not bring any distractions. Go outside. Stay out there for an hour and a half. And if you can't stay outside, that's fine. Just go somewhere where it is just you and there's no distractions. Like I said, journal everything that comes to mind, confess your sins. And then she gave us some prompts for meditation. So she said, I want you to take two minutes and say over and over and over again, be still and know that I am God.
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Then say, be still and know that I am. For another two minutes, say, be still and know. Next two minutes, be still. And then the final two minutes, be. And what happened was, for me personally, I would do those prompts and then write down words. Words were coming to mind when I would say them. And then,
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I paused after doing all of those and seriously started journaling everything from the breeze feels really good to the birds are loud or there's people walking by looking at me like I am crazy and then it all just started flowing and I'm writing and I'm crying and I'm smiling and I'm crying and
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it felt freeing. So we go back to the house and we are going to share with our small group.
Music and Divine Connection
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And I told my small group, I said, Hey, I don't really want to share everything I wrote down. I mean, that's, I'm not ready to go there, but I'll share a couple of highlights and
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This is what I shared with my small group, something that I wrote during Be Still Time. I don't want to say something to fit in. I want to boldly be able to speak it boldly.
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And if I don't talk about anything related to you or scripture, let me know that's okay too. Sometimes we just need to listen. So thank you for always listening to me. Thank you for not giving up on me. Thank you for sending me to this retreat. Thank you for having me learn more about you. I'm actively doing it. Just look at a five-year comparison. Please continue to be with me. And will you please just hug me? I love you.
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And so lots of tears when reading that and one of the women gave me the biggest hug and it felt good. And so after small group time, we got back together as a big group and Jessica from Pastor's Wives Tell All, we were talking about be still time a little bit more, talked a little bit more about the importance of retreating and all that. And then she said, I wanna pray for everybody.
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And she started praying and I'm sitting next to my girl Lacey and Jessica's praying. And then she says something along the lines of, I pray for boldness in these women. And Lacey tapped my leg and I just smiled.
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So that prompted me to start thinking a little bit more about my relationship with God and that hug, that tangible item that I needed. And so I was talking to Lacey and one of the other women there about music. And in our swag bag,
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they had given us all kinds of cool stuff like cups and journals and affirmation stickers and candy and I didn't look through it. But Lacey had pulled out some of her affirmation stickers and I thought maybe we all had the same sticker. And so we were talking about the music and the connection with my story of goodness of God and then we had a little bit of a break and I thought,
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I'm gonna go look at my stickers. So I'd like to bring you back once again to something that happened to me on New Year's Day, 2023, this year. Yeah, it was New Year's Day of this year. Our church had done a prerecorded service for New Year's Day, because it was a Sunday.
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And so on New Year's Day, I was watching the service at home and our pastor was talking about how he hoped this year would be the year that we really started engaging with Jesus, that we started following him, that we wanted to grow
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with him and be in relationship with him. And it was very moving. It was like, yes, that's what I want to do. That's what I've been looking for. And I know that I work for the church. I had no idea how this service was lined out, even though, you know, it was prerecorded. I didn't know. I knew nothing about any of it. And so I was actually in our bedroom watching the service and on
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Our wall, we have a cross. And one of my favorite songs is the contemporary version of It Is Well With My Soul. And that's hanging in our bedroom. And I, it was towards the end of the message and I looked over at the cross and I thought, how nice would it be to hear that song right now? And that was the song that was played.
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right after the pastor gave his message, right after I had looked at that cross and thought this, this, this is what I need. And it is not a song that our band sings a lot.
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I just start bawling. So this was a connection that I had. This was a connection right then and there and I had talked about it with Laura Fleetwood a couple of times and she had actually given me a necklace that said it as well with my soul and that kind of was my thing.
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Yes, it did happen. I walked up to my room in the retreat, in the retreat house, opened up my bag and pulled the sticker out that said, it is well with my soul. And I didn't even start crying. I started laughing and I said, okay, God, I see you. Thank you. And I went downstairs and I told my girl Lacey and I just had a smile on my face. The rest of the night was just filled with gratitude.
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Sunday morning, I woke up feeling great again, and I didn't want it to end.
Spiritual Warfare Lessons
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leading up to the retreat, the itinerary said that it would be over and we would be on the road by 2 p.m. And I thought, man, that's so late. You know, by the time I get home, it's going to actually be bedtime and how am I going to get things ready? And it's too late. I can't do this. And so then the morning of, I didn't want to leave. I didn't want to go home.
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We started the morning off as we had the day before with worship and lots of smiles and just feeling good. And then the pastor wives tell all they did a message on spiritual warfare, which I knew nothing about.
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before this retreat. I mean, I mean a little bit I knew, but not a lot. And they really talked about how the enemy is going to try to attack once we leave those doors, that we're going to get back into our normal routines, that we're not going to rest, that we're going to start, I don't know, all this self-doubt again. And that's the enemy. The enemy is like, hey, I'm going to take you down. You will not win. And so they provided some
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wonderful wisdom on how you prepare for that battle and what you do. So that was a very heavy message, but a much needed one. And we ended our time together, all linked up in arms, singing our worship songs. Goodness of God started and I just balled again. Like it just felt like I needed to release it all. Like I had one more
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effort to just let it go. And then the other songs that I had come to know and love, I was able to sing. And so everything wrapped up and I didn't want to leave. I seriously did not want to leave. So then Christy and the Pastor Wives Tell All, they approached me and my girl Lacey
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And a couple other women, they're like, we were wondering if you would do some video testimony about your experience. And I said, absolutely. And it was during that testimony that I realized that tangible item that I am looking for from Jesus, that hug that I still really, really, really, really want. I can't, I just love me a hug, but it's music.
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It's like, duh, former radio personality turned ministry worker is being spoken to through music, not just Christian music, all kinds of music. And it took that retreat for me to really, really know that.
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Everybody else is saying, hello, we've seen it. Now you have seen it and witnessed it. And I was embraced by Jenna and Christie and Lacey when
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it all came together for me. I'm going to probably have to redo the intro to this podcast and not say that I have three tattoos, but more because now I'm wanting these different amazing things that happened on this retreat.
Embracing Authentic Faith
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to be represented in ink on me. So I am actually working with Jina from pastor to wives have all about that, but it was a beautiful moment. Do I still, like I said, I want that, that hug. I do, but I think I've been looking in such a different wrong place.
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The other thing that I learned about myself on retreat through the eyes of others, especially Christie, was that I don't have to know all the scripture.
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that it is okay to be real. It is okay to be the real person who, I wrote this down, sits at the table at the Mexican restaurant, drinking spicy margarita, eating my chips and salsa, and talking about how cool Jesus is. That is bold, even though I don't think it is.
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and that I need to take this burden of feeling like I have to know it all and understand it is okay to be in the middle. When I say that this retreat was life-changing, it was, but I mean it in a continual change of life for me.
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It is a continued work in progress, but now my eyes are more open. It's hard to explain a lot of the feelings. Like my mom and my sister, we were talking about the retreat and I said, it's kind of hard to explain this in certain words.
Ongoing Spiritual Journey
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I did the best that I could and the best that I could in this episode too, but I don't want to fool you and say that I have
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complete peace right now. Of course, I have questions still, and I'm still growing, but that's the beauty of this. This is an ongoing journey, and to hear very wise, spiritually mature women talk about that, women that are leading a retreat to say, we're not
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Don, we are still on this journey with Jesus too. Their journey looks a little different than mine, while mine looks different than yours, yours looks different than mine, but it is ongoing. There's not this moment that doesn't keep you from still growing, if that makes sense. You are gonna continue to grow, and that's amazing.
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All right, so I thought that I would finish this episode with returning to the real world. I've gone a little bit longer than I realized that I would. So I am going to hit pause again on this conversation and invite you to come back in a couple weeks to hear what had happened.
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happened once I returned from retreat and where I am right now. So come back and join me for episode 81 for the part three of saying yes to retreating.