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What Does it Mean to be a Sonic Fan in 2023?
364 Plays1 year ago
In this episode of Chatsunami, Satsunami is joined by friend of the channel WysteriaMoth to discuss what it means to be a Sonic fan in the year 2023. Have perceptions changed? And is there more to liking the Blue Blur than many care to admit? Let's find out!
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Chatsunami.
00:00:17
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Chatsunami. My name's Chatsunami and joining me today is the one and only Spin Dash Master herself, it is Wisteria Moth. Moth, welcome back. Thank you so much and honestly I didn't, I wasn't expecting the title but you know what, we'll take it, we'll take it.
00:00:37
Speaker
I was trying to think of other things. I'm pretending I'm the Mushroom Kingdom. Yeah, sure. I'm a Sonic fan. The Triforce Wizard. I'm a Sonic fan. It's not even been a minute and already we've got the giggles. No, listen, this happens every time we record anything, but you know what? Let's just roll with it. We got this. We got it. That just means we're having a good time. It is true. I think it's been over a year since you were last on the podcast.
00:01:06
Speaker
Oh don't say that.
Sonic Fandom's Serious Side
00:01:07
Speaker
I think I know it was the dark times there was like global paninis everywhere that was like it was a mess it was dark times I will agree but those times aside because clearly we're at better more enlightened times as we talk about Sonic out of the lot.
00:01:23
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. Unironically discussing Sonic as a serious topic on a podcast. Yes. We are on the other side. We are on the other side of the tunnel. We have become the light. We are through the looking glass, people. We are ready. We've got 50 tabs open. Well, no, honestly, listen, you joke. You joke. But I've actually been actually thinking about relevant topics to talk about on this podcast. And I'm unironically super excited to be here talking about it. So I'm super happy to be here.
00:01:53
Speaker
I don't think you have any idea how excited I was when my co-host, Adam, turned around to me like a good, I think it was last year, he was like, oh, do you want to do a month on Sonic? And it's like,
Building Connections Through Fandom
00:02:03
Speaker
there's always a gift of a person or an animal just slamming against a window, like so fast and their face is pressed up. And I was just like, yes.
00:02:11
Speaker
Please. Yes, please. But no, honestly, it was exciting. You were like, hey, do you want to just do an episode where we talk about being Sonic fans? I was like that gift from my hero academia of like baby Deku just like rocking back and forth in the chair. Just so excited. I'm like, yes, please.
00:02:24
Speaker
I have done that. I, and this is going to sound interesting but I can't remember if it was after you and I had done our first interview together and then I think we got to talking maybe for a half hour after and we're just chatting about random things and then we brought up the topic of Sonic and then you were saying how you were a Sonic fan and I was like whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa there's another Sonic fan.
00:02:47
Speaker
Just one of those things like all of a sudden you realize there's another! There can
Challenges of Being a Sonic Fan
00:02:51
Speaker
only be one! There can only be one! It started like a half an hour chat after we finished our first episode, which was lovely by the way, because we talked, we chatted for like a half an hour before, then we did the episode, then we kept talking after, and then all of a sudden the second that I even let on to the fact that I was even remotely, tangentially,
00:03:08
Speaker
even interested in Sonic that was it was gone lid off that was it no holds barred suddenly we're both just being little grimmons like have you seen this thing and just passing things back and forth and it was just it was lovely because it's like the thing about being a Sonic fan right is these last few years have been rough for us
00:03:24
Speaker
oh yeah you could say that again it's been rough and now it's almost kind of like one of those things it's like whenever you say like oh you're a sonic fan you're a sonic fan it's almost been like a meme hasn't it like the second you let on that you are a sonic fan you get almost memed a bit don't you
00:03:41
Speaker
It's always like a low hanging fruit, I feel, in the gaming sphere especially. And without naming any names, because I'm looking in the corner and my red panda lawyer is shaking his head saying, whatever you do, do not name any names. So yeah,
Sonic's Struggles Post-2000s
00:03:58
Speaker
okay, no, I won't name any names. But there's certain groups that may or may not be more famous than me for now. No, I'm a little kid in the outside state. I'm going for you.
00:04:09
Speaker
But you know, there's groups like let's players and gamers, artists, you know, any content creator who'll be like, oh, Sonic, it's the weirdo's taste, you know? Like, if it was a brandy, it would taste very funky and from the 90s, no doubt. But yeah, Sonic is one of those things that did have a prominent place in gaming history, especially in the 90s. And then
00:04:31
Speaker
obviously it kind of fell off in the 2000s. It was still popular but it kind of fell off and you're completely right. Ever since what fans like to call the Dark Age with Shadow of the Hedgehog, Sonic 06, those kind of games, that's the moment that everyone just slammed Sonic. They put it off on this big dark board in the sky and said we're getting the bulls-eye new here and it's an easy bulls-eye to get with this franchise.
00:04:55
Speaker
It really is. It was just rough because it's like the games that were coming out weren't that great. Sonic 06 being a really good example of that because it's so painfully, painfully obvious that the game itself was rushed. Like if they wouldn't have tried to put out the game to be a launch title with the PS3 and actually had some time to make better decisions with certain aspects of the game, it would have been a decent entry. But the fact is when they released it, it was a buggy control aspect was just especially depending on which platform you played it on to begin with was already just all over the place.
00:05:25
Speaker
place so it
Enduring Enthusiasm in Fandoms
00:05:26
Speaker
was just really really rough being a Sonic fan but the thing is right it's like the Sonic fandom I don't really think that it ever really fell off I think it just had its very very specific designated spaces and no one really bothered to go to those places like no one that wasn't in the know for the franchises and things like that never really bothered to even poke their nose in to see what it looks like in those spaces
00:05:51
Speaker
because they open them up and be like, hmm, I wonder what's in here? All of a sudden they get bombarded by a bunch of teenagers slash grown men posting all sorts of art and fan fiction and things about like little furry animals and then doing God knows what with them as well. They just close the door and go like, okay, yep, that's not for me. But talking about being a Sonic fan in like the early 2000s and stuff like that, I was definitely in that generation of the Sonic fans.
00:06:16
Speaker
and I was also a part of the online aspect of it as well. I was in a lot of those fandom spaces doing all the fandom stuff. I had my own characters as well. Some of my oldest OCs started as Sonic characters, and I'm not even ashamed to admit that. You know, it's actually kind of funny now. I know I'm kind of going on a tangent here about it, and I'm sort of jumping all over the place.
00:06:36
Speaker
But like Sonic is really, really important to me. And for a while I was really almost ashamed of my fandom because of some of the stigma that was like, you talked about it as well, like talking about like, you know, we're an easy target for some people to meme on us and be like, Hey, look at those kids over there. They're open season. Let's go make fun of those guys over there. I look at my relationship with the Sonic fandom and being a member of the Sonic fandom as being such important formative memories for me as well.
00:07:04
Speaker
Sonic games
Nostalgia and Sonic Adventure
00:07:05
Speaker
were some of the first games I ever played. The first time I actually was playing a video game and genuinely loved it was Sonic Adventure 2 Battle. And oh boy, the amount of time I spent on that game is astronomical.
00:07:18
Speaker
I think you can agree, we all had, as a Sonic fan, we all had that one game that we just played to death. Oh no, absolutely. I always remember when I was growing up, my brother had a Mega Drive slash Genesis, and I always remember he had Sonic, but I was never really into it. I'm going to be honest, and this is probably one of the things that I might get cancelled for as a video gamer, to be like, oh, he doesn't like retro stuff. Get him, you know?
00:07:46
Speaker
big into that going back to games usually it takes a certain type of game to go back to because you know that way that mechanics have evolved and everything and you would rather play a game that was stable and actually you know you have fun with it I mean I like
00:08:02
Speaker
Sonic 2 but the first Sonic I just I couldn't get into really I thought was okay but it's obviously it's a product of its time but I totally agree the one that I really got into and this is something I've said quite a lot in the podcast but the one I got into was Sonic Adventure because my brother when he grew up he bought a Dreamcast and I remember when I was young and I think
00:08:27
Speaker
Either I was going to a dentist appointment or I was going out somewhere and I saw he was off school at the time and he was playing, I think, you know, the first battle versus chaos in Sonic Adventure. Oh, wow. That's a throwback. Oh, and I remember seeing that and I was just so enamored. I was like, oh, this looks so cool. And, you know, my dad was assuring me out the door, like, that's nice. Now, come on, we have to go. And I'm like, no!
00:08:52
Speaker
you can't make me let's go son we got places to go but no honestly listen if you get cancelled for not really caring for the og sonic games i'm right there with you i'm on the struggle bus with you because my like i said my first exposure to sonic was through sonic adventure 2 and so going back and playing some of the older games because you know like they released a couple
00:09:09
Speaker
Like they released like the big collections of like the older Sonic games on PlayStation the Gamecube you had like these just like the mega collection Sonic gems I think was another one that they had as well and I had those my brother had those actually I would go back and try to play the older games I'm like this just isn't as fun now. It's funny You should mention you sort of mentioning or getting into Sonic adventure by watching that first fight chaos because
00:09:31
Speaker
my exposure to Sonic Adventure 2 was actually quite similar because it was my brother and his best friend were playing and I was walking by the room that they were in as they were playing and I just heard this really cool song playing I'm like what are they playing and I go in there and I look at the screen and normally like like listen I was a typical bratty little sister from the late 90s early 2000s right I was the one that at every opportunity I took a dig at my older brother just because he was my older brother
00:09:57
Speaker
And so I remember walking into the room while they were playing this game and what they were actually were playing was City Escape. And so I just remember the City Escape theme song, little escape from the city is the name of the song, obviously. But I just remember like it was the music that got me into Sonic first. And then I would sit there and watch them play the game. I was like, can I have a try? And they actually had to help me get through part of the level because I didn't know how to do the little, um, summer salt. So I couldn't actually get through the boxes. Like you'll probably know exactly the first bit I'm talking about.
00:10:25
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. You know exactly the bit I'm talking about where you can't progress and go down the stairs on the rail because the boxes are there, so you have to somersault through them? Yeah, I didn't know how to do that. And so they had to show me how to do it so I couldn't even finish the level the first time I played. But it was all downhill from there. It was all downhill from there. It was a slippery slope, ass-first, straight into being a Sonic fan. And I've been there ever since. I was going to say, it's OK. You're amongst friends here. You can let it all out. It's OK.
00:10:52
Speaker
My heart! But no, honestly, I feel like the games sort of grew with me to a certain point. And then I found peers online, like I was talking about earlier, I was really into the spaces where you would find like-minded individuals online and things like the old message boards, the old forums. Oh boy, they were a lawless wasteland back in the day.
00:11:16
Speaker
Oh yeah, no preach. As I said before, I always remember getting into Big Collie's. I saw that initial clip and I think I played some of it in
Forums and Creative Growth
00:11:25
Speaker
the Dreamcast but because it was my brother's console, I was like, oh, I'll only play a wee bit and then obviously he would take over and be like, oh, I'm playing
00:11:32
Speaker
this. So I never really got to play all of Adventure at the time but then I remember I was in the shops once and then I saw that Sonic Adventure 2 was on the shelves and that was the DX version for the GameCube so I was like oh can I get this and my mum thankfully was like oh you can and I was remember I got it that day and I was really annoyed because one of my friends from school came over that exact day and I was like I just want to play Sonic Adventure 2.
00:11:58
Speaker
Because I played the original. Can we just agree that the opening for that game, especially back in the day when you first witnessed it, was the single coolest thing in the world? Oh, it's amazing. Both of them are just so iconic. The first one literally starts with all of these police officers trying to robocop a water monster and it's like, oh no, our bullets are useless. Fall back, and then they go. And then that's it. It's like they never turn up again. You're like, oh, this police force is very effective.
00:12:26
Speaker
Okay, bye! Thanks for nothing! And then in the second one, it's like, oh no, our helicopter's useless! It jumps out, you know? What is wrong with these people, anyway? But listen, can we talk about the budget that Gunn must have had to have a fucking truck that big to chase down a singular hedgehog? What was the purpose of that truck?
00:12:47
Speaker
I have got so many questions about Gunn, so for anyone who doesn't know, and is by curiosity listening to this, Gunn is like the military organisation of this world, but they're very controversial, problematic. I feel like if they were in the real world, they would have to apologise for
00:13:06
Speaker
god yeah they would violate so so many tenants of like oh my goodness listen they would be on everybody's shit list for some of the shit that they do oh good lord i mean they've shot kids they've done property damage it probably killed a lot of people in city escape you know all those cars go flying there's no way they're not coming down somewhere oh exactly and listen they're like their budget for collateral damage and coverage must be astronomical i think that's where all the money goes they go it goes to the legal team
00:13:35
Speaker
Yeah, like $10 trillion on a giant truck. It's like, why have we spent $10 trillion on a giant truck? That's just for the insurance. That's just to insurance. That's not even to pay for the truck. Yeah, it's like, do you want how much to fly to space? What? Oh god, don't even get me started on gardening space there. Oh lord. No, we'll get to that. We'll get to that. Yeah, that's a whole other can of worms. We'll crack that open in a second.
00:14:01
Speaker
Going back to what you were saying about the online forms being a wasteland of, what is it the same Star Wars again? A hive of scum and villainy. That was a- You're actually the wrong person. I have seen six of the Star Wars films, you do not remember a damn thing about them. That is not my wheelhouse. Well, you're with a fellowship poster here, so you're all good.
00:14:22
Speaker
But yeah, it was such a… I don't want to say weird place. It was quite a unique place. And I'm not saying that in a derogatory term to be like, oh, it's unique, or when you were talking about people coming into the community going, oh my god, and then, you know, running away again. Because that's all very surface level, isn't it? But then, like, the people that you meet, because I completely agree, it is such a unique experience being on those forums, because I never knew that many people in my life that I could talk to about this thing and then not get sick of it. And then actually have things to say back to me.
00:14:52
Speaker
Because the thing that I found really surprising when I went on these, you know, forms like every Sonic fan probably has gone through this at one point, when you go on these groups, the forms, you'll get like the role players, the OCers and everything and it's definitely almost like a safe space. Before that old term of, you know, safe space and everything was like universal and everything but
00:15:14
Speaker
You could definitely tell with the people you were talking to that they were creating these characters because, and this is something that I have to admit, even in my own channel, when I did my 12-hour celebration stream, we dedicated three hours to do a Sonic OC competition. And it was all for fun and everything. We decided to submit all of these really daft
00:15:36
Speaker
Sonic OCs, like saying, oh, my name's Jim the Hedgehog and I don't like ice cream. That kind of thing. On the one hand, there's a lot of shared qualities to these OCs, and it's obvious who's created them. You get one too, you're the really well done and everything and they're quite fleshed out. You're like, okay, obviously this is an older person that's created this, but you always knew it was younger kids who would make these when it was like, my name is Dark Flame,
00:16:04
Speaker
hedgehog and I'm 18 years old. They were always 18 for some reason. They were never in their 20s or 30s because that's too old. That's too old, but they want to be adult. They want to be taken seriously. 18. Exactly. But then it would always be petty things that they would put in their likes and dislikes. Oh, likes. I like ice cream and my sword who speaks to me and everything. It's like dislikes. I hate egg man. I hate injustice. I hate my friends being hurt.
00:16:32
Speaker
it would be like a random one just throwing in there. I don't like the dentist and I'm like, sorry. So, okay. I mean, neither do I. Pop off, I guess. Yeah, it's like, oh, so you're like an interdimensional spirit demon from the shadow realm or whatever. And it's like they have dentists there.
00:16:49
Speaker
If he got teeth, you gotta have somebody take care of him, don't you? Like, I mean... I mean, I would love to see that sitcom of just, like, a dentist in hell. I'm sure there's a joke in there, but I'm not gonna make it because... I mean, the dentists are from hell, so they can't actually set up a practice there, I don't think. But I mean, like, an interdimensional dentist, now THAT, that could be something.
00:17:09
Speaker
That's the OC we want to see. That's exactly it. Right now, write that down. Somebody needs to make an OC that's an interdimensional dentist. It needs to happen. Write that down. Write that down. We'll make millions. But the thing is, right, like when you were talking about like, oh, you know, how like you had the OC or as you had to role players, I just kind of felt two little flags pop up on my back because I was both of them. I was that kid on the forum. I had seven different OCs. And these OCs are like the first proper characters that I had ever concocted.
00:17:38
Speaker
And I'm not even gonna lie, the first couple of them were just blatant. Well, they would refer to back in the day as Mary Sues. They were just blatant self-inserts where I just wanted to project myself into this world that I loved so much, because I just wanted to be there.
00:17:55
Speaker
The ones who followed afterward, especially as I got older and everything like that, like I didn't actually enter the forum spaces until I was at least 12, 13 years old, right? So I was teenager, middle school, going into high school, that sort of deal. And high school is a whole other can of worms as well, when it comes to being a Sonic fan, because you know, like you have the, well, we'll get to that in a second. But my original point being having that sort of identity online as an OC creator, and then eventually a role player,
00:18:22
Speaker
It opened up so many aspects of my life that have just become actual pillars of my interactions with people. I have met people, I still speak to people that I met on those forums 10 years ago, 15 years ago. Like my best friend in the whole wide world, I actually met on one of those Sonic forums, role-playing with him. And we still speak to this day. And even my partner, I met my partner on one of those forums and we became best friends. And we're still, I moved to a different country.
00:18:52
Speaker
for him. So it's like, it's so weird to think that this one little niche community affected the trajectory of my whole life in such a way. And it's just wild to think about. I was going to say that was one hell of a no see then. I know, right?
00:19:10
Speaker
No,
Escapism and Self-expression in Fandom
00:19:11
Speaker
honestly, honestly, because, like, role playing was the gateway to creative writing for me. I realized that I really, really liked it. I always liked to read. I loved to read. I loved to consume media that had creative writing involved with it. I loved it. I never thought that I could do it myself. And it was only through role play that I realized that I could do it. And of course, I started off being that silly little God modding. I'm, like, all knowing, like, little, I know what you're going to do before you even know what you're going to do. I did all that, right? I did
00:19:40
Speaker
every bit of that. But then I found as I got older and I matured, my characters matured with me. My writing, as I started getting my voice in writing, my writing style matured with me. And even now, I still write short stories and stuff like that. It was my start as a role player that laid the groundwork for that. And some of my oldest characters have matured with me and they've actually expanded into their own right rather than just being the little animal in a Sonic comic that I drew in middle school.
00:20:08
Speaker
I mean, you make a very good point there though, because looking back to what was saying before, it definitely does seem like a lot of people who do gravitate towards the forms and everything. It seems as if everyone was trying to find a space where they could share this general interest. And I mean, me especially, I saw my fair share of, as I said,
00:20:29
Speaker
and apologies for repeating myself. The OCers, the role players, everything. Some good, some completely despicable, but that's kind of part and parcel of it. There's always going to be that dark underbelly. Yeah, there's a dark underbelly and then there's a sonic one, but we'll get to that. We're just going to put it down for now. We'll come back to it. Just put it here. Just watch it for us, the idea listener. We will be back.
00:20:51
Speaker
be careful it does bite yeah if it starts moving just yeah kind of vacate the premises please don't look at any eye yeah this is turning more into like one of those backroom videos if you disappear it's your own fault for accepting the parcel that's the parcel
00:21:10
Speaker
That's the OC. Oh god. Oh god, no, no, no. Keep going, keep going. What were you saying? What were you saying? And the kind of more positive point there, it does feel as if a lot of people who were creating these OCs, whether they were cringe or whatever, I think the thing that people originally forgot was the fact that these were mainly kids and teenagers who were making them.
00:21:32
Speaker
And it definitely came at a time where, I suppose, people couldn't really record or have records of these OCs the same. They couldn't say, oh, did you have an OC back in the day? It's like, yeah, but that website shut down. So I'll try and get me now. Side-eyes my old DeviantArt account. Yeah. I was like, ha ha, deactivates. Exterminatus. Exterminatus. You'll make the emperor proud.
00:22:01
Speaker
from existence. It was never there. Just chanting and laughing. That's the thing though. It definitely felt as if these were characters that provided an escape for people because it's easy to turn round and go, oh, that's a crime Josie and everything. And if they're being obnoxious towards people then, you know, they're going to learn a very hard lesson about, oh, you should probably tone it down a bit or someone's going to knock you down a peg. But
00:22:26
Speaker
At the end of the day, you can definitely tell that these characters gave these fans a sense of, I suppose the words autonomy, within a realm where they had complete control. You know, they might have been a Mary Sue hedgehog, but at the same time they were a Mary Sue hedgehog on their own terms. You know, they could have superpowers. They might get bullied at school, or they might be going through a rough time in their life, and God knows, I've gone through so many rough times.
00:22:51
Speaker
I've managed to fall back in those communities and things like that, whether it be Sonic or other things. But at the end of the day, this provides people with that kind of outlet. And don't get me wrong, before the Vaya ones start kicking in here, I know that there are some people who are quite lack of a better term here to take the piss with
00:23:11
Speaker
their interests as it were and you know they're not there to get away from it, they're just there to kind of put on their perversions and whatever on like certain aspects of the Sonic fandom. But at the end of the day I feel as if that's heavily overlooked that there's a lot of people who use Sonic as like a kind of comfort world. You know and it's not just Sonic, you know people have made Pokémon OCs they've made. I don't know if Mario OCs exist, I don't think I've ever seen a Mario OC
00:23:37
Speaker
I have like I've seen like really yeah like Mario princesses like making themselves into princesses or coming up with new princesses and that sort of deal and I think it's super cute actually that's how you were gonna say they were coming up with new plumbers they're coming up with a new one now plumbers oh no
00:23:51
Speaker
his nose is much bigger than Mario's. It's like, why would you do this? I mean, there's probably one out there, I guarantee you. Oh yeah, there will be. By statistics, definitely. There is a Mario OC out there. You know, the rules of the internet, there was a rule for that. If it exists, there is an OC of it. There has to be. But it's so funny because it's like, a lot of these points are really hitting home with me especially because it's like, I definitely use my role playing as a form of escapism.
00:24:16
Speaker
because I won't go into it, but I was bullied pretty hard in school. Especially being the Sonic fan, being the girl that was into nerdy stuff and stuff like that, being the girl that sat in the back of the class doodling comic panels in her notebook and stuff like that. And my first thing that I ever learned to draw were Sonic characters.
00:24:32
Speaker
So being that weird kid definitely got me a reputation in school. People, I was a pretty easy target for bullying. But then I would come home to that safe space that I had created, this safe group of people that I could go to. And I was somebody who was important on
Sonic's Influence on Creativity
00:24:47
Speaker
some of the forums. I'm not going to like name any names or anything like that, because I mean, I do have some shame, but.
00:24:52
Speaker
It wasn't much shame. I was like, I do have some things that I'm not willing to air on the internet. So I'm not going to name any names or anything like that. But on some of the forums, I actually ended up being in like admin positions and stuff like that, especially as a teenager. So I would be like the kind of person that would like help with the actual running of the websites and stuff like that. And I would help with managing the forums and stuff like that. And like I said, I met some of my dearest, dearest friends through that as well. Just sort of having that sort of safety net to come back to was honestly something really helpful.
00:25:21
Speaker
Even if we were getting absolutely shit on for the quality of the games coming out at the time, if we were taking L after L after L, at least there was something that we could all come together to agree with. It was also about this time when I was in high school that I discovered the Archie Comics series as well, and that opened up a whole other aspect inside of things that I didn't even know existed. And I discovered artists and stuff like that that I really, I still look up to, to this day, that did work with Sonic Comics.
00:25:48
Speaker
And even some artists from, like I mentioned, the old DeviantArt account. Yes, I have a DeviantArt account. My Sonic OCs are there. I'm not telling you what it is, but, uh, like I remember following some artists on there and I would interact with them as well. And now those artists are working on the IDW comics. And that blows my mind now. And it's just like how much one franchise can sort of build somebody's world is astounding to me or be a foundation to build somebody's world on.
00:26:13
Speaker
is absolutely amazing. You're completely right. This is the thing though, it's not just a franchise that unites video gamers. At the end of the day, Sonic is a video game. So you would think, oh, it's only video gamers that are into it. Don't get me wrong, that's like a huge portion of it. But of course, you've got other people as well and they're, as you said, you've got artists, you've got people who write
00:26:36
Speaker
maybe fanfiction about people who create their own models. People who make their own videos
Cultural Crossovers in Fandoms
00:26:41
Speaker
as well. Like, I mean, I've seen the fan videos that people have made, whether that be the Sonic Paradox series, whether that be Naso Unleashed, which is fantastic. Oh, I was hoping you would bring up Naso Unleashed. Oh, thank God!
00:26:55
Speaker
Now I think there's a Venn diagram out there where it's like Sonic fans, Dragon Ball Z fans, and it's just a perfect circle. There is so much overlap between them, obviously because there's the power up of the game where if you collect the Chaos Emeralds, you become Super Sonic, which is just like a yellow form. And of course in Dragon Ball Z, you've got the yellow here that spikes up for the Super Saiyan form.
00:27:21
Speaker
And yeah, so it's just, it's exactly, it's not exactly the same, but it's like very similar. There's a lot of similarities between the two. There's a lot of parallels, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Because it's like, you bring up Nozzo and Leesh and stuff like that. There was another one that I actually followed back in the day, which was, and I've actually seen, I think that the people are starting to like jokingly remaster the series and it was Super Mario Brothers Z, which... Oh yeah. Oh yeah, you know exactly when. Oh, I know.
00:27:46
Speaker
you know you've been there but no it was just like one of those things like again you're talking about like the sonic dragon ball z video diagram being a circle yeah it's very much that because literally the whole thing is just sonic characters and mario characters getting into dragon ball z fights and that was the peak of entertainment back in the day
00:28:06
Speaker
You're right, it's a completely goofy concept of these family-friendly characters getting into fights and things like that. Where's my money, Sonic? You're beating each other up. But at the same time though, it was just so well animated. That's exactly it! They were so fun to watch because they were well made. You had people who were teaching themselves a whole skill to do this sort of thing. And how cool is that?
00:28:31
Speaker
There's a lot of content creators I think that have had their start in Sonic, for example, the creator of Nazorn Leashed. I think he's an animator. Well, I mean obviously because he created that, but he started on Newgrounds and he went on to animate his own stuff because I always remember he was working on a sequel to Nazorn Leashed and I think he managed to get like the intro done, the kind of storyboard and everything and then he said, oh, it's going to be out in 2019.
00:28:57
Speaker
then they pushed the date
Acceptance of Geek Culture
00:28:59
Speaker
back and then obviously the great pathenius I mentioned that happened and then straight after that it was like yeah I'm not releasing this I've got too much to do no no yeah on the one hand you think oh that's rubbish because it's so nostalgic but on the other hand you think well
00:29:13
Speaker
Fair enough. Yeah, you've got to love your life, you've got to expand on things. Like if you're going for a job, I don't know, unless you're going for a job in Sega, I don't know how many companies who are into animation and things are going to look at Sonic animations and be like, hire this man. I am right now. Find this man. Kind of going back to one of the points you were talking about earlier, I just want to bring this up because you were talking about how
00:29:38
Speaker
you know, it wasn't cool to like narrative things back in the day. I completely agree even when I was growing up. There was certainly a stigma behind it. Maybe not video games. Video games were starting to become kind of cool, but you know, things like Dungeons and Dragons, superheroes, comics, that kind of thing.
00:29:56
Speaker
I mean, don't get me wrong, you've still got your bullies nowadays, but they weren't as prevalent as they are nowadays. Obviously, because of the MCU with Marvel comic books have taken a great boom, Critical Role, you've got Dungeons and Dragons and Stranger Things as well with that. So it feels like a different world compared to the one we grew up in. I mean, not drastically, but it was definitely quite different. So of course, when you did retreat into these worlds, it was that, as you said, it was that safe space where you had to
00:30:25
Speaker
control. And even whether that be through fan content or even with the games as well. But can I just say it can be really easy to sort of find a bitterness with that sort of revelation that those these spaces that were once very sacred and special to us but ostracized by others but now that these spaces are becoming more open and more people are they're becoming more accepted even mainstream like again with things like Critical and stuff like that it can be really easy to become very bitter about it but goddamn I'm so happy to see that now. I am so
00:30:55
Speaker
pleased that I can say, yeah, I'm a Sonic fan. And people kind of be like, maybe a little bit like, Oh, okay. Or, you know, somebody else can be like, Oh, dude, yeah, Sonic is really cool, isn't it? I always tell this as well, because like, where I work, we have a lot of we have a bit of a younger clientele. So every time I see a little group of cosplayers come in, I am overwhelmed with joy. Like, I'm so happy to see that kids because I remember again, being bullied so harshly at their age, but now that they have this acceptance, and they have this
00:31:21
Speaker
sense of self so strong for them that they can go out into these spaces and be themselves. It does my heart good. Like it does my heart so good to see that these spaces are opening up to people and people can be safe and be secure in what they enjoy. And that in turn helps me feel better about being a Sonic fan because I mentioned a bit earlier in the podcast that I didn't always openly announce that I was a Sonic fan.
00:31:46
Speaker
even though you found out that night after the podcast, the first one we did, we spoke for almost an hour, over an hour about it, you know? And so it's just like, but now that I can feel a bit more comfortable in admitting to that part of myself, it's liberating in a way. I'm even going back and redesigning my old Sonic characters for healing my inner child right now. I'm not even joking, I have a sketchbook. I have redesigned versions of my old characters in a sketchbook right now. And it has just been so cathartic
00:32:14
Speaker
to sort of revisit these old characters and these old places that I created in my mind and breathe a little bit of new life into them as an adult and as a different kind of fan. It is just so good that, again, as you said, a younger generation can completely feel comfortable in expressing themselves. I remember
00:32:33
Speaker
years ago. I can't remember what comic it was, if it was like Penny Arcade or something, but it was one of these online comics where it showed you the big characters, like a child who was playing a gameboy and he goes, oh, Pokémon! And then when there's a teenager who's like very gloomy and he's like, you know, I'm not into Pokémon, he's quite very evil and
00:32:52
Speaker
down and then it gets to college slash university. And again, he's like Pokémon and they're all played together. And that's exactly how I felt after him. I definitely went through a stage where when I was younger, loved games like Pokémon and Sonic, Banjo Kazooie, those kinds of games. And then when they got to a certain age, I've said this before, it's a stupid mentality, but you know, you're a kid and you have all these
00:33:15
Speaker
societal expectations. They're disappointing at that age. You have to
Celebrating Nostalgia in Modern Platforms
00:33:19
Speaker
become a bit more mature, you have to grow up. When I was playing these video games, I was like, right, I have to play more mature games now because I'm becoming an adult soon. I play games like Halo, Call of Duty, those kinds of things.
00:33:31
Speaker
don't get me wrong, obviously, that's not the case. You can play games for younger audiences and still be a mature adult. You know, you don't have to be defined by that, but that was kind of the mindset. It wasn't until I got to uni where I completely agree, I was very comfortable with saying, oh, I'm a Sonic fan and everything, or I'm a Pokemon fan. I'm all these gaming types of fans. I am the fan.
00:34:01
Speaker
You'll find me everywhere, nowhere, safe from my influence. You'll see your curtains below ink, it is I, the Omni fan. But that is terrible, we'll see a side. I'll work on that later. We've got to be careful, we can't use the initials. Oh yeah, true. Well, no, no, because that's how you reel people in. I feel they're nothing with marketing. True actually, fair enough, fair enough.
00:34:28
Speaker
Hey boys, you want to see my fans? You know what I mean? We reel them in, we get that paycheck and then we get out of there. That's exactly it. And then we did before they know what happened. And the word for Sonic says, you get out of there. And this has been the bad advice power hour with protesting army and wisteria mob. And yeah, if you like to see more of our cut, no more cut. I was going to say, you can catch us on omnifan.
00:34:57
Speaker
For legal reasons, that's a joke. Please don't look that up because I always make joke websites and I'm like, I'm fearful. I'm fearful that one day is going to be real. The panda lawyer is furiously waving his paws in the background. He's shaking his wee tiny fists at me. I'm dicing my death here. If you don't hear from me in five minutes, that's fine. Oh, God. My M legal troubles and brainstorming aside. Can you tell I got kicked out of business school?
00:35:28
Speaker
It is
Evolution and Criticism of Sonic Games
00:35:29
Speaker
so nice though that nowadays there are a lot more spaces for people to express themselves in, especially for the nostalgia as well. It's good to be able to go back and revisit these games because that was one of the reasons why I started doing my Twitch stream
00:35:45
Speaker
games in 2020, one of the things I really wanted to do was share my love of childhood games, so I'd play Call of Duty games and things like that, but I would also play Sonic Adventure. And I remember playing that, and that was actually one of the first games I played where someone gave me a compliment and the way I streamed and everything, and that gave me such a confidence because I was like
00:36:07
Speaker
Oh my god, you know people like this content, they like Sonic and everything. It's like it's not a shameful taboo that I should be stuffing into the wardrobe, but anything like that. It's something that I can openly say, oh yeah, I'm a Sonic. And I know how to say it, obviously it's not the worst thing to say, oh, I'm a Sonic fan.
00:36:23
Speaker
But seeing that point, going into the bad aspects, or rather the bad perceptions of Sonic with the general public I would say, because as you pointed out at the very beginning in that episode, being a Sonic fan has its sense of memorability, doesn't it? Whenever those certain
00:36:41
Speaker
let's players or other content creators and here's the thing I'm not against you know people saying oh Sonic bad you know it's like oh fair enough you don't like Sonic like I'm not saying oh you have to say Sonic's good because I have to admit I saw my fair share of people saying oh I hate this Sonic game but then the fans
00:37:00
Speaker
Oh god, the White Knight's coming out in droves. My god. I'll be like, Sonic 06 isn't a bad game and everything. And oh, it's an answer show masterpiece. Does anybody else like Sonic 06? You know, it's like, it's obviously kids that are getting a bit hyper defined. So well, kids and grandchildren probably. Yeah.
00:37:18
Speaker
You can definitely tell that. I suppose that's partly why people make fun of it. I don't see a problem with poking fun at a franchise, because I've poked fun at it and I've poked fun at other franchises along the way, but there's a very fine line. It's not just with Sonic, it's with any franchise that people like. There's a fine line between people who are
00:37:39
Speaker
are aptly criticising something or poking fun and people who are just being downright malicious and kind of saying that you should feel bad for being a Sonic fan, what are your thoughts on that? JG Honestly, you're pretty much spot on there because it's like the thing is, right, is that it definitely was one of those polarising fandoms to be in because it's like if you were a Sonic fan, it was pretty much you were like the height of cringe, especially if you had the Sonic character and everything like that. Oh my god, you were the
00:38:06
Speaker
height of cringe and it didn't help that was reinforced again by those white knight commenters and stuff like that who would just absolutely say some of the most out-of-pocket shit to anyone who dared say that I would dare have a negative opinion about anything that came out in that time
00:38:22
Speaker
It was a really tumultuous time to be a Sonic fan at that point because it was like there was the whole group of us that was like, you know, we sort of kept to ourselves. We had our we had our little groups that we would be in and we would be able to like have our little areas where we would operate and all would be find well and dandy.
00:38:37
Speaker
everything like that but then yeah there absolutely would be a sort of negative downside to it because again like i said you have the external bullying when i was a kid and everything like that and then the online some of the things you would get online as well and then especially when like when games would come out and they wouldn't be that great they'd get really bad reviews they would have issues with ports and stuff like that sonic unleashed being a big one for that one it was at the wee version of the game that was just absolutely abysmal
00:39:01
Speaker
Yeah, it seemed more linear because of the obvious technical issues with the Wii compared to the Xbox 360 and the PlayStation 3. It was just menu-based, I think, and a lot more linear, which this is my controversial take of the night, if I'm going to be honest. I think I would have preferred that a lot more in the 360 version at times.
00:39:21
Speaker
Oh yeah, I played the 360 version of it, so that was the only, oh no, it wasn't 360, it was the PlayStation version I played, so that was the only version I ever knew, so I liked it, I thought it was a good game, I had fun, and it did something different. I think the biggest problem with the Sonic fandom is this whole group of them that wanted, or it's just this whole group of us, because I'm a part of it, right? There was this whole group of the Sonic fandom that wanted them to go back to the old platformer formula, like the 2D platformer, and arguably, in some of the newer games, like Sonic Generations, Sonic Colors,
00:39:49
Speaker
I really didn't like a 2D platformer side of things. I felt like that the switch between the 2D and the 3D was so jarring that I would lose my momentum. And in a Sonic game, if you lose your momentum, that's not good. Because the whole purpose of a Sonic game is just to build momentum and to maintain the momentum. And I feel like that was the biggest crux of the issue for the Sonic games going forward. But it was just always this massive vocal part of the fan room that was just like, this isn't what we want, so we don't like it.
00:40:18
Speaker
that's probably my main complaint of the fandom because I feel as if obviously a large chunk of them are going to be kids but there's a large chunk of them as well and that is probably the vocal minority here that are calling for these changes because I'm going to be honest and this is probably a controversial take but I don't think Sonic fans know what they want and I think I brought this up in the Sonic month episodes but I think it's because this is like the double-edged sword on the one hand
00:40:46
Speaker
Sonic has gone through so many iterations. You've got the old retro games, you've got the multitude of Dark Age games, you've got the boost era and the modern age, quote unquote, because it's technically no longer modern, but you've got all of those different play styles. So it almost reminds me of, do you remember the Itchy and Scratchy episode where they introduced Poochy and they get all the kids in the room to do the focus group?
00:41:15
Speaker
is the guy trying to figure out what the kids want, and they're like, you want a realistic down-the-earth show with killer robots? And you should win things by watching, you know? All of these different styles just do not mix. It's like water and oil, and they just keep clashing. So to appease everyone, they say, oh, we're going to put in, as you said, the 2D platforming and everything, which, I'm going to be honest, I hate it. I absolutely hate it because I love
00:41:40
Speaker
what they did with the Sonic Adventure games, the fact you could traverse the area, the fact that there was that freedom to explore the area as well, and you'd be rewarded for exploring that. But then after the Sonic Adventure games, they're like, okay, we're going to dial it back a bit, and that's when we've got Heroes and Shadow and
00:42:17
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that you have it pretty much spot on. There's a segment of the fandom that's just like a whole group of people that's just like, we don't know what we want, but we want it now. And it can be just really, really sort of disheartening to sort of watch how it all went down. But, this is a big butt here. I was just sort of renewed my faith as a Sonic fan. Sonic fans have eaten good in 2022, haven't we?
00:42:22
Speaker
06 and everything which are probably lesser-liked.
00:42:39
Speaker
That is true. Yeah. We've got a multitude that go down. We did it. It was good content too. Like, listen, Sonic Frontiers. Oh boy. Whoo. Listen, you want to talk about doing something new with a Sonic game and it actually working out. I actually, when I was first hearing about Sonic Frontiers and especially after the delay, people were like, oh, this open zone thing isn't going to work. When really it was probably one of the most fun aspects of the game for me.
00:43:05
Speaker
And people say, oh, the delay, it's going to be bad. I'm like, no, listen, delay it, delay it, delay it, put that shit on hold, please fix it. Like make sure it's good before you put it out, please. And it worked out for them. Like, I'm not going to sit here and say that the game is immaculate. I certainly have my fair share of criticisms for the game, but you can still have an enjoyable experience and be able to criticize the media itself. And
Adaptability of Sonic Fans
00:43:27
Speaker
that's what I really like about it. And it's gotten me feeling that sort of giddiness that I haven't felt for a Sonic game since Sonic Adventure. And that's wild to me.
00:43:35
Speaker
I definitely agree that they are back on track a little bit. I do have my gripes about Sonic Frontiers, I don't get me wrong. I will be talking more in depth about that in a future episode, so if you are listening Super Shadow, the person who I am doing the episode with, first of all, hello. Thank you for listening. Second of all, yes, I will be talking to you. You'll know, you'll know when you listen to this. You'll be like, oh, Satsu, you better watch.
00:44:02
Speaker
No, listen, listen, I would love to be a fly on the wall in that conversation because it's just kind of like I've got opinions.
00:44:08
Speaker
I feel as if they're going in the right directions, but they are making some mistakes. There's some moments in the game where I have to admit, I do agree, it brought me back to those Sonic Adventure days where it was like, oh, it's like hyper serious and everything, but then there were some moments that took me completely out of it, like with the cyberspace levels and everything. Some of the characters, yeah. They could have done away with the cyberspace levels, honestly. Those could have been like...
00:44:35
Speaker
No, honestly, they could have done without it, frankly. They were literally just there for a mechanic and it
Sonic-Inspired Games and Innovations
00:44:40
Speaker
was just kind of like, eh, but you know. ALICE Slightly off topic, but here's a question for you. So there was this modder who used to load Sonic games, and then he went on to make his own series called Spark the Electric Jester. Have you ever heard of the series of games? NINA No. No, I haven't. ALICE So first of all, I would highly recommend them, but long story short,
00:45:03
Speaker
pretty much everybody was talking about this on the internet a couple of months ago, at least a couple of months ago when this episode was recorded, but they basically said oh it's like the Sonic Adventure 3, it's like it plays so much better than the new Sonic games and I was like yeah sure sure yes.
00:45:21
Speaker
this is all grandstanding and everything. But then I read the reviews on Steam and it said overwhelmingly positive, and I'm reading through the reviews thinking, nah, there's a catch here, there's a catch or something. I'm going to get pranked as soon as I buy this game, people are going to pop out the walls and go, ha ha, got you.
00:45:40
Speaker
Oh yeah, but I played it and basically, as the name suggests you play, it's like this kind of electric spark character called spark. The platforming in that, I'm going to be honest, is absolutely amazing and see for a game that is made by a limited amount of people, I think it's mainly done by the one guy but
00:45:59
Speaker
you know, he has other people for other resources like the artwork and the music and things. The platforming in that is absolutely incredible, and now that I can't gush about it enough. But when I'm looking at a game like that and I'm thinking, this is amazing,
00:46:14
Speaker
It's like everything you would want from a Sonic game, because there's a lot of similarities to Sonic that he's still got in. Like you've got a homing attack, you've got the springs, you've got the speedbus on the levels that look exactly like the ones in Sonic, so you're kind of like, give us Sega notes, please Sega, don't touch it, please, don't touch my babies. This isn't an invitation! Yomaro! Put the lawsuit down! It puts the lawsuit down!
00:46:41
Speaker
But yeah, it's such a good game. And the reason I bring it up is because, and maybe this is me getting older and being jaded with games, that obviously they're games that are geared towards kids first and foremost, because that's where all the business is going. But at the same time, you've got writers like, for example, Ian Flynn, who I think does absolutely fantastic work. He is a writer that works on the IDW comics and everything, and he worked in Sonic Frontiers.
00:47:07
Speaker
I thought there was so much they did well with it, but then I look at games like Spark and I think, why can't we have a game like that anymore? It's hard to explain, the platform, everything clicks is what I'm saying. The story isn't great, I will say in that game, the story isn't great, but everything else brings you back to that feeling of,
00:47:26
Speaker
being a sonic fan. You're going at hundreds of miles an hour essentially. Whereas you play Sonic Frontiers and it's like I feel as if I turned into the women from the Titanic every time I go to a 2D section or I go into cyberspace and I'm coming out of cyberspace going it's been 84 years.
00:47:42
Speaker
No, like the thing is right that was my that was one of my biggest complaints with Sonic frontiers is how easy it is This is just a thing when you're playing a Sonic game Sometimes you got to reset your thumb on the analog stick because you can't hold it forward that long But good lord the second you take your thumb off that analog stick to reset. There's no momentum He just stops dead and I'm just like excuse me, sir, sir
00:48:01
Speaker
Sir, did I say stop? This is one of those situations like I was literally just taking pressure off the analog stick for half a second to reset and you said apparently that equals stop to you and you said yes ma'am and I'm just over here like can you not like I said I have my fair amount of criticisms but I think you're absolutely correct in the way of saying that I think that they are steering themselves back to the right path and I think having Ian Flynn on board was one of the best things they could have done for the game narratively because I think it has probably one of these stronger stories aside from a few things and of course there are a few things like I guess I don't want to I don't
00:48:30
Speaker
want to go in too in-depth about it because you know it's still a
Sonic Films Reviving Interest
00:48:34
Speaker
relatively new game and there are spoilers and things like that and I don't want to go into the big nitty-gritty of it because we've also been going for a bit now but this is between Sonic frontiers and things like the IDW comics which are really really good and Sonic Prime have you seen Sonic Prime
00:48:47
Speaker
I have seen one or two episodes. I think I saw the first two episodes, but I'm still too much of a race. I binged the entire series. And don't get me wrong, again, I have my complaints, but it is a solid series and it is good. And I'm just over here like.
00:49:04
Speaker
Oh, we're eating good today, boys. It's delightful. And I love the fact that Sonic is sort of getting a bit of like a little bit more pep in his step now when it comes to the media and the movies. How could I forget the Sonic films? Oh, yeah. Oh, the Sonic movies. Oh, my God, they are good. Especially Sonic 2, because like Sonic 1, first Sonic the Hedgehog movie was like a proof of concept. Would people watch like a movie about Sonic the Hedgehog? Yes, they absolutely would. Great. Sonic 2, unleash the lore.
00:49:30
Speaker
I remember when I went to see that and I dragged my partner along because I'm like, there's no way I'm going in by myself to watch this. I need you to come along with me, please. It's like, you're my excuse. Come with me. Yeah. And obviously, because it was
00:49:46
Speaker
relatively new at the time. In fact, I tried getting in in the first couple of days and unfortunately got a stomach bug. Oh, that was just horrible. So I had to like refund my tickets and then I got it when I was better. It's like, again, I don't mean to overlay the Simpsons references, but as you know, when Comer gets out with a sandwich and he wants to go to Duff Gardens, that was me.
00:50:10
Speaker
I was like, we gotta go to Sonic. Listen, I'm not even like, I'm not even lying. Like the day the film dropped, my goofy self and my partner both went to go see Sonic. We were like, we were not like, I don't think we were the first showing. I think we were the second showing of the day. We went to go see the Sonic film and on the way in, I was like, wait, Sonic, build a bear. So you best be believing. I drunk his happy ass with me to build a bear. I made the Sonic build a bear, got the shoes, got the ring, got his voice, everything. And then I, you best be believing.
00:50:38
Speaker
went to the cinema, sat in the cinema with that Sonic on my lap and watched the film and I was screaming by the end of it. I was so excited. It's like I was 14 again. There were some moments where I was like, I don't know if that works, but at the same time there was a lot of low references and things. And I remember my close to recommended the Sonic month that we did. He was like, oh, you're gonna love the ending. And I thought he was spoiled by that. He was like, you're gonna love the
00:51:05
Speaker
ending and i was like yeah sure sure and then they got to the end i'm like oh my god it's this and that and then we got to the post-credient scene and i was just like inclined by it. i was on the edge of my seat like actually screaming about to cry i was so excited by that after credit scene like i said it took me right back to being i was like 14 again and it was it was like all full circle like here i am an adult with a sonic teddy on my lap crying in the cinema over an after credit sequence
00:51:36
Speaker
It is good that things have come full circle because it is one of those things that people look back at nostalgically and I feel as if the movies do it relatively good just now. At least in
Sonic Team's Humor and Perception
00:51:49
Speaker
the first one you know they have kind of references here and there but
00:51:52
Speaker
And the second one, they really layer those references in. And it's good to have a film that works its own. You don't have to know about all of these things. But then at the same time, if you are a fan, then it just rewards you with those kind of things. It is nice to see a bit more positivity because I'm actually curious to hear what you have to say about this because I don't know if you follow the sonic social media pages.
00:52:16
Speaker
I follow a couple of them. The main one where it makes memes about how bad Sonic is. And don't get me wrong, some of them can be funny, but then there's some that almost feels as if it's normalising that self-deprecation. Kind of like, how do you do fellow kids? I'm terrible. What do you think about that?
00:52:33
Speaker
I think that if anything, I definitely could see it like it being like a sort of, yeah, maybe you shouldn't normalize this sort of opinion of your property and your IP and everything like that. But at the same time, I feel like that it also almost comes from a place of awareness because you have to think about if you're working for the Sonic team.
00:52:52
Speaker
Nine times out of ten, you're not gonna be there just because you're like some random Joe Blow who needed a job, right? You're gonna be somebody who is probably grew up as a fan of Sonic coming to the Sonic team to do some work. That goes for your social media managers as well. So that makes me think, right? The people who are making these memes and posting them on these official channels and stuff like that were probably fans in the same space as that we were.
00:53:12
Speaker
And I think a lot of that sort of like awareness and the memeing about how bad some of the games were in the past comes from a play. They can definitely come from a place of familiarity because I was like, we were there, we were there when it was all going down and everything like that. But then I also see your point in a way where it can almost be like,
00:53:28
Speaker
You know what, maybe the self-deprecating humor is funny every so often, but maybe not to this degree. At this point, I really would say that Sonic Team is really, really starting to pull themselves on track and everything like that when it comes to actually making Sonic games that are working. And at the same time, it's not necessarily a bad thing to sort of look back and have a bit of a funny ha-ha laugh about a game bad, but maybe don't make it the crux of a lot of the humor on your page.
00:53:54
Speaker
I mean, even, I know it's a bit hypocritical on me saying that because although my Twitch channel is special when even in the Discord and everything, we have jokes about Big the Cat in characters like that where I've even got an emote of Big the Cat with the thumbs up. We do it as a joke, you'll be like, oh, it's Big the Cat, oh, we can't wait to see Big the Cat. But then it's almost became like a Trojan meme, if that makes sense. It's like it snuck its way in.
00:54:19
Speaker
so much so that it's just part of our everyday vocabulary. You know, you'll say, oh yeah, that was good, but it's no big the cat fishing minigame. Or when you see big and I think you're like, oh, that's nice, you know, they've got big in. Like, obviously, I wouldn't want to see a whole series based on big the cat and everything, but it is kind of nice that, as you said, they are looking at
00:54:38
Speaker
the past and the picking and choosing moments. But it must be really hard for Sonic Team nowadays because going back to an earlier point that I'd made, it was the fact that there are so many different styles and elements and everything, especially for characters like Shadow the Hedgehog who brought up earlier about gun and their various war crimes. But the fact that Sonic Lore has a canon moment, oh how do I say this without sounding terrible, where
00:55:06
Speaker
rip off the band-aid. Just rip off the band-aid! Where a young girl essentially gets shot in space, mind you. The reason she's in space, by the way, is because she is physically ill. She's got a space virus, essentially, so she has to stay up there so she doesn't get killed. And yeah, she ends up getting shot by Gunn. Who are they?
00:55:25
Speaker
course the military of this world. So to have something so dark in this story, because let's face it, that is definitely one of the darkest moments of the franchise. If you're looking at the games exclusively, because I've talked in depth about the comics and how charming they be, he got absolutely abused to hell and backed by the writers.
00:55:44
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Oh geez, there was I mean, I'm not gonna go into detail about it But there was a whole storyline where like charming to be suffered some pretty pretty steep like psychological issues and it's like good lord and even for that matter in like the Archie comics before everything got imploded by Ken Penders if they went some places
00:56:04
Speaker
I distinctly remember one of the comics I had. Sonic actually annoyed and, not so much annoyed, but he actually drove Eggman to the point of having a full psychotic break. Eggman was actually institutionalized because he had just been driven so close to the edge. And Sonic actually felt bad. And it's like, dude, this is, this is heavy. Like, whoa, now I came here for funny ha ha's and I'm getting like, woof.
00:56:29
Speaker
I'm just imagining a child you read in these comics and you read the mental breakdown scene and it's just you going, it's the fastest thing alive. No, I was a teenager, like I was a teenager and I'm not gonna lie, I already was like, really, like I said, I was bullied pretty like I mentioned before, I was bullied in school and everything like that. So my sense of humor and my way of coping with things was already pretty dark.
00:56:50
Speaker
So this sort of thing was already not really out of the ordinary for me, but to see it just played out. There are some things, like there are some things where you can watch somebody have a bit of a breakdown and it can be treated in a way that's almost funny. Like you can think about the Anastasia movie, like the animated Anastasia film when Rasputin was absolutely going off the rails, you know, and it's treated as a joke.
00:57:09
Speaker
But then you have this, where it's Eggman quite literally losing his mind, freaking out, and Sonic realizing this is happening, and he's like, whoa now, okay, I didn't want it to go this far, actually. But then my little trauma-bonding, addled brain was like, this is cool! But now going back and reading it now, I'm just like, oh wow, okay, this definitely did some things, and it went some places.
00:57:32
Speaker
I feel as if there's a lot of tonal problems with Sonic. Personally for me, and this might be the inner edgelord, and they apologise in advance, but I do like when they do a serious story in Sonic, but at the same time, I feel as if the adventure era definitely knew how to balance that. Because even though you had the obvious kiddo getting shot, that aside, that minor detail aside,
00:57:55
Speaker
It really informed a lot about that particular character of Shadow who was just this bitter, vengeful hedgehog who was the complete opposite of Sonic. He wasn't carefree. He wasn't just playing by his own rules. He wasn't doing all these things. He was just so… He was traumatised. Exactly. And you would be. If you saw your best friend get shot right in front of you before you were fired at a space cannon, trust me, it makes sense in context.
00:58:21
Speaker
You saw that. You would be very vengeful. That of course leads to his redemption arc at the end, where he helps him save everyone. It's just such... I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not gonna pretend like, oh, it's the perfect story and everything. There's faults in both Sonic
Character Development in Sonic
00:58:36
Speaker
games, but
00:58:37
Speaker
The adventure series, I believe, did have that kind of balance between fun gameplay, a relatively serious story, but it knew when to have fun with itself. You know, you had that where they did the flip and they kicked the egg roll in the head and everything. They literally for some reason flew a shuttle and that's a shuttle for no reason.
00:58:57
Speaker
You're like, okay, this is fun. You know, you had a lot of fun moments like that, but then on the other side, of course, you had the dark and tragic past of Shadow, which again, I feel as if because people always saw those snippets, that's what informed them when they made Shadows like one game and everything. So a lot of characters from then on became very flanderized, and I did feel as if Sonic was just the, haha, I'm quippy McQuit,
00:59:24
Speaker
hedgehog, and Tails is the smart one, and Amy is female hedgehog. Exactly. She's a girl. Knuckles is the meat brain. Eggman. I've got so many conflicted opinions on Eggman because on the one hand, I love his portrayal in Sonic Adventure, and I do love Mike Pollock. I think he does an absolutely fantastic job at the voices in Sonic X and everything beyond that. But
00:59:50
Speaker
I felt as if he was a lot more serious in the Sonic Adventure games and then after that he kind of made everything a joke. And don't get me wrong, I know it's for kids, I don't expect some kind of quota like a Maria to be shot every game or anything. I'm not expecting that but there is a tonal problem when either it's too serious or it's not serious enough. It is true because for example you've got the infamous
01:00:14
Speaker
sonic forces where sonic gets captured and he is a literal prisoner of war and everything. And again, I'm not expecting to save him Private Ryan with hedgehogs or anything, but at the same time, you're kind of like- There's a disconnect. There's a disconnect. You're treating him like he's literally been gone for like six months, right? You don't even know if he's alive, but yet everybody is just sort of like, oh, okay. Yeah,
01:00:36
Speaker
Yeah, he's not here, and then he comes back and there's like nothing said about it. And I definitely agree, like that sort of thing is definitely something that I feel is rampant in some of the newer games. But I appreciate it in Sonic Frontiers, the newest installation, right? I really appreciate the fact that while it's not perfect when it comes to the tone,
01:00:53
Speaker
They did a lot to sort of help with that because it's like, even if it isn't something that's spoken in the dialogue, it's reflected in the character's interactions. And even as the game progresses, like you sort of see the actual ramifications of what Sonic is going through right now reflected in his character model, even as he moves. And I think that's something really interesting. The one big thing, right, that blew my mind about it was on the third island in the game. Again, I'm not going to go into any specifics or anything like that.
01:01:19
Speaker
But it's just kind of like, okay, this is arguably when it's worse and nobody's really saying anything about it. Like, I mean, this might be something you want to bring up there, bud. I mean, are you not even gonna say, hey, you good or anything like that? But other than that, I feel like the way that they handled the characters made them more robust and made them more believable.
01:01:39
Speaker
Specifically with Amy now, I'm gonna go on the record here. And again, it's probably gonna get me canceled. I cannot stand Amy Rose No, honestly, I I cannot stand her She is like a blight on my existence And I've always just sort of hated the fact that she is the embodiment of like the female character archetype But what I really appreciated in Sonic frontiers is that she wasn't just that default girl character
01:01:59
Speaker
And there was actually substance to her. There was something, there was a consideration about her that was absent from other incarnations I've seen of her. And even somebody who me, like even me who I can't stand Amy Rose by the time I was finished interacting with her, by the time that segment of the game was done, I was like, okay, you know what? This is, this is not bad. This is not bad. She's not bad. She actually has a personality and there's something to her. This is good. I like to see this.
01:02:24
Speaker
And that sort of theme continued on even up to Eggman. And I thought Eggman's portrayal was a little bit unc- not so much uncanny, but it was just a little bit strange to me because it doesn't feel like him. Because again, I think I got so used to that sort of overblown super cartoonish portrayal of Eggman that I kind of forget that this is a very, very, very intelligent man and a scientist at the core of what he does.
01:02:44
Speaker
Right? The fact that he was played a little bit more methodical and calm in the delivery of his lines in this one makes sense to me. And even going back and doing the egg memos and stuff like that, listening to those, it was strange listening to him actually sound like a scientist. But it was refreshing, because, oh my god, we have something other than the nyehehehehe! Sort of like super bombastic mustache swirling, I hate that blue hedgehog sort of deal, you know? He's not gonna get away with this.
01:03:12
Speaker
the bottom area. Oh no, the bottom area. Oh god. I would rather have the get a load of this and everything. It's no use.
01:03:26
Speaker
See, I think that's why I like the serious Eggman, because when I, obviously, that was when I established when I was growing up, I played a lot of Sonic Adventure, so the Eggman I was used to was one who was kind of cold and calculating, but he was very reasonable, you know, he wasn't just a comic relief. I remember the scene where he threatened to physically stomp
01:03:49
Speaker
I'd rather. He threatens to physically curb stomp tails into the ground because he's got the egg walker and he's like, away, before I make mincemeat out of you. And it's like, it's so cool. You're like, oh my God, he's a frightening man. Yeah, but then after that it was kind of like a half on the egg scientists. And I remember for the longest time, I was relatively disillusioned with
01:04:11
Speaker
Sonic. So by the time I was a bit more grown up, I thought, okay, by Sonic Frontiers, Eggman was a bit more comical and everything, and they really weren't making it as serious. Because I think the tipping point for me was Sonic Colors, maybe? Because it wasn't as serious as, you know, the other games. It was, oh, look, Baldi Mcnose here, look, it's reference A, reference B and everything, and
01:04:37
Speaker
It's not for me. It's definitely not for me. Even though I don't agree, obviously with a lot of what they did in Sonic 06, I appreciate them for at least trying something new. And that's what I always love about Sonic. I always try something new but at the same time it doesn't always work, which makes it a source of ridicule. But then, of all places, there was a content creator who was watching called
01:05:01
Speaker
it's the game apologist and he was doing a speed reading of the IDW comics and I remember checking it out because one day I was bored I was like oh I wonder what's happening with the comics because as you know they cancelled the Archie comics and was it 2018? I think something like that yeah somewhere yeah like that relatively that time and I was like okay what are they going to do with the new comics because they were continuing that off of forces and as you said there was a sonic drought those years so we're like smacking the lips like
01:05:30
Speaker
Wait, wait, wait, where's the Sonic? We need content. So I ended up watching these videos and I was like, oh, I wonder what's happening. And the first arc, you know, it's just stereotypical. Oh, they fight. I think it was like the old Metal Sonic and everything. It's a cool arc, but I was like, all right, OK, fair enough. You know, nothing special. But then shit hits the fan when they get to the Metal Virus arc, which is probably the closest that they get to like a zombie arc.
01:05:53
Speaker
And it was so good that I even did an episode. I just went away and I was like, you know, the fan mostly was like, fine, I'll do it myself. And yeah, I was just like, I am doing an episode of this because it's just that good. And that, of course, is partly due to Ian Flann, who did a fantastic job writing it, including all the characters and things.
01:06:10
Speaker
Again, not perfect, but it's absolutely fantastic for what it is. The way I'd imagine written in that as well in all the characters is it's a way that it makes them serious, but at the same time it doesn't seem fan-fiction-y, if that makes sense. Not to be derogatory, but it's not like you know that fan-fiction that we've all written at one point in our lives where it's just you read it back and you go, Jesus Christ, what was I thinking with this dialogue? It's
Mainstream Acceptance of Fandoms
01:06:36
Speaker
like, no, you are the evil egg or something. I don't know.
01:06:39
Speaker
I'm honestly so glad that that died with my old PC. What died? Uh-huh. Wink, wink. I'm just thinking of like your computers halfway across the world and it's like the germanji drums beating. Oh god! No! You can't! I'm not going!
01:06:58
Speaker
What's this? It's just the PCs sitting there like, right? Fanfiction and me, who did your destiny? No, little Timmy, no! Now that is a full mother's watch. Oh god. Jumanji, but with a fanfiction PC. Oh, fuck. Listen, that's for a whole other audience.
01:07:15
Speaker
oh that is that is terrifying i know that's for the omnifan fans oh there we go yep there we go so if you would like to send fanart of omnifan to us you can
01:07:32
Speaker
I'm half joking because I know people won't draw that, but at the same time I'm like, there'll be one. Our favourite subscription will be featured on our website, TheOmniFans.com. If you go over to the Patreon, yes, and it's an exclusive purchase. Again, we want to emphasize this is a joke. No such website exists. Red Panda, stop staring at me. I mean, the Patreon does exist, but OmniFans isn't there. I just want to point that out again for a legal reason. Yeah, the Patreon does exist, OmniFans doesn't. Yet. Well, we'll workshop it. We'll workshop it. Definitely.
01:08:01
Speaker
We'll get back to you. We'll have our people call your people. Would you say the perception of Sonic fans over the years has gotten better? Oh god, no. Or would you say, okay, that's right. I was a quick answer. No. Here's the thing though. My qualifier to that, right, is I don't think the perception of Sonic fans has gotten much better. I just think that the context surrounding them has changed. That's what it is to me.
01:08:23
Speaker
And I think that it's a matter of the perception of Sonic fans has aged because a lot of the people who were enforcing those perceptions have aged as well. They've gotten older. They sort of gotten out of that mindset of, ha ha, Sonic nerd funny and everything like that. And I think that with the sort of new generation, a new perception is being ushered in.
01:08:44
Speaker
So I think that this new generation of fans, just in general, like fandom in general, is just sort of, it has its own sort of negative side of things as well. Because, you know, it's like, I really look towards the sort of treatment of how people have treated fans of things like Stranger Things or Wednesday, you know, like that. I've seen some treatment that for them, that's not so great. But I think you get that with just about any fandom. And I think that's almost like a natural life cycle of being a fan of something.
01:09:11
Speaker
You're going to have that community where you feel you belong. You're going to have a community where you feel like you're not anyone out of the ordinary, but then you're also just going to have somebody in another camp that looks at you and goes, yeah, you're a little bit weird. And I don't get this thing that you like, but that's just one of those things, isn't it? The thing is, is like, I don't think the perception has changed much at all because it's just one of those things that's always going to.
01:09:31
Speaker
there's always going to be a certain side of people that look at it a certain way, but then there's going to be a whole other group of people that are actually a part of it or want to be a part of it that are going to see as it changes. And I think
Critique and Interpretation in Fandoms
01:09:42
Speaker
that's the biggest thing is just, well, that. I feel as if it is a lot easier to find the negatives and things than it is the positives. Again, without naming any particular people because
01:09:54
Speaker
certain people of said fandom have documentaries, they have videos on them, they have all sorts of attention on those particular aspects, so it doesn't need us glossing over it, but it's the fact that it's so much easier to look at cringe fans and then say, oh because those fans are being cringed, you don't get me wrong.
01:10:14
Speaker
This is the thing that I think applies to both the sonic fandom and media as a whole. I think it's okay to criticise something. It's okay to look at something and critique it and say, I don't like this, but I like this. Why don't you like this? Why do you like this? And discuss shared ideas, say, I don't like this because of X.
01:10:34
Speaker
someone might say oh well if you look at it from this perspective then you might like it and you go okay that's fine but on the flip side you have a lot of people who are clearly a bit immature and again that's not just for Sonic fans in general there are people out with the community like for example there are a lot of immature fans of other content creators who they'll see their favorite content creators say oh Sonic cringe whoa so therefore that'll become
01:10:59
Speaker
their personality. And again, this isn't like Sonic exclusive but it does mainly apply. You do see people who play older games and they'll say, oh this is terrible and oh this is the worst thing ever and people who are Sonic fans are, you know, they should be ashamed. There's nothing wrong
01:11:14
Speaker
with not liking the older games there's nothing wrong with saying oh it doesn't hold up as well or I don't like it I don't think it's great that's perfectly fine but when you step over that threshold of saying I don't like it and you should feel bad for liking this then I have an issue with it then I have a complete problem and again it's not just that applicable to Sonic
01:11:32
Speaker
But even when I discuss things on Chatsunami, when I say, oh, I think that this is bad, or I really didn't like it, that doesn't mean that you're not allowed to go and enjoy it. You know, like I've critiqued things like the worst of the worst, like bardemic and things like that, or looking it back to something, you know, I've said, oh, I'm not a big fan of the retro age because I was more exposed to the adventure age in the dark era. But when people start saying, oh, you should feel bad for liking that, oh, you should grow up and everything,
01:12:01
Speaker
That's where I don't agree. I feel as if there has to be moderation on both sides. You can't be so obsessed with something that you say, oh, you can't criticise this thing that I love because it has a deep personal attachment. And I do agree to be very crude here. I think the phrase, don't be a dick, does apply here.
01:12:18
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. Because the thing is, I absolutely agree. People are allowed to enjoy different things and people are allowed to enjoy things in their way. And just because you don't have a personal attachment to a fandom or a series or anything like that doesn't mean that somebody who does is inherently wrong in some way. The thing is, someone's allowed
Inclusive Spaces and Fandom Challenges
01:12:37
Speaker
to have an opinion about something. They are definitely allowed to have an opinion about something.
01:12:40
Speaker
But having an opinion just for the sake of tearing down a group of people just for funny and rings is just not okay. And I think that, like I said, because we mentioned before about the Sonic fandom having a very clear vocal minority of people who just want to complain for the sake of complaining about everything, every piece of media has that sort of faction in their fandom as well. But I think what's really different about it now is that I'm finding more and more that there are people now that are just like, you know what, just let people like things.
01:13:08
Speaker
Just let people enjoy things. Cringe is dead, you know? Like, just let people be people. And I'm one of those people. I'm like, you know what? Yeah, I'm still a Sonic fan. I'm turning 30 in like three months. I don't care. I'm here and this is something that I like and I'm not gonna sit here and pretend that I don't just because I don't want somebody to laugh at me.
01:13:26
Speaker
Because life's too short to worry about. People don't like the little polygons on your screen that you use to pass your time, you know? It's something that holds a really, really deep place in my heart. And again, like I said before, has formed so many of my key relationships and key moments even in my life. So it's a part of me that I really can't let go of and a part of me I don't want to let go of.
01:13:48
Speaker
And so when I say that the Sonic fandom hasn't changed or anything like that, when I say that, I don't see it as a bad thing. Because when I go into a fandom, I don't immediately look at the bad part of it. I like to look at the good and what good comes from it. At the end of the day, a fandom is supposed to be, or a fandom at its core is a safe place for people to enjoy media together.
01:14:10
Speaker
And don't get me wrong, there is some really shady shit that can go down in some fandoms and things like that. Again, I'm not naming any names or anything like that. Every fandom has its dark underbelly. But at its core, the purpose of the fandom is a good one. And it's something that's good for people and the people who are a part of it. I want that sort of feeling of camaraderie to remain.
01:14:29
Speaker
Do you feel as if, though, because you brought up a very interesting phrase and I completely agree with it when you said that the forms that you used to frequent were the wild west of the internet, and I completely agree because it seemed as if there was a lot of places where it felt as if it was
01:14:45
Speaker
exclusively one area you know whether it was and this is going to age me significantly so apologies if my teeth fall out but you know you had Bebo and you had all of these different websites like you had the it was in the mystical forest zone things like that you had to like actively seek out these groups and things and it was quite isolated almost but now the fact that
01:15:07
Speaker
The internet is a much larger place now, which sounds like a weird thing to say, but the fact that anybody can jump on with a mobile phone and everything, they can hop onto Twitter, they can find groups there, they can hop onto all these other social media pages, start up their characters, and it's just such a wide variety of things. And especially with the rise of new content and things, do you think that's kind of changed the way the fandom interacts with one another?
01:15:34
Speaker
Absolutely. Because like I said earlier, like the early forums were a lawless wasteland, but they were a frontier. They were a whole area of untapped potential that allowed people to connect in ways that they had never been able to connect before. And so now that as it's gone outward and gone upward and just expanded into this open air of just up into the cloud, actually, like as a great example of it, it's just like you just have this
01:16:00
Speaker
all of this space to move around and traverse and find different aspects of fandom that even I wouldn't have thought about. There are so many places now and again with the sort of bravery that people have now to just be open with what they enjoy, to be open with what makes them happy and things like that. That is amazing to me.
01:16:18
Speaker
And don't get me wrong, there's some content out there from people that I don't like that I think is like, okay, you probably could have not gone without putting that on the internet, but that's okay. More power to ya, you know? But at the end of the day, it's not my joy to manage. And if that's what makes them happy, then that's what makes them happy. Now, if the content is openly harmful and things like that, I mean, yeah, absolutely no, get out of here. But if it's just somebody having innocent fun, like I said earlier,
Content Creators and Fandom Influence
01:16:41
Speaker
like I was redesigning my old OCs for like self-care for like,
01:16:45
Speaker
healing me and her child a little bit. It's kind of like in the same vein of me watching Bluey. Like, I'm not even gonna lie, I'm obsessed with Bluey, love Bluey, because it makes me wish that I would have had influences like that in my life, you know, when I was a kid. So it's people do with their fandoms what they want to do with their fandoms. They can either use it as an escape, they can use it to cope.
01:17:03
Speaker
And just as long as they're doing it in healthy ways, then more power to ya! And I think with the advent of these new open spaces that people can go to, and having these fandom spaces be more accessible, I think it can be a bit of a double-edged sword. Because as much as I'm singing the praises of it now, it's also made people more open and accessible to torment as well. But that's just a duality of existing in an online space.
01:17:28
Speaker
Because I mean, that's pretty much just that was just kind of like the end of my thought really is just every person when they put themselves out there for the things that they like and the things that they enjoy and exist in the fandom space openly, it's a risk that they take. And I don't think it's something that should be a risk, but it's not a perfect world. And at the end of the day, even though I can sometimes say some really like nihilistic or cynical shit, I'm an optimist at heart. And I just want people to be able to enjoy themselves.
01:17:54
Speaker
and to have these safe spaces that I had growing up because, like I said, some of the best things of my life came from Masonic fandom. Thinking back to when I was talking about how things like Dungeons and Dragons and other things have become completely normalized by certain content creators,
01:18:11
Speaker
It is amazing how the world of content creators has kind of helped foster fans to come together. Creators like Some Call Me Johnny, Emmy Jones, who did the, I think she did Sonic R, and she even co-babbed with Ryan Drummond and Jason Griffith and things, which blew my mind, can I just say? When I was like, wait, content creators can do that? These are real people? Oh my God. But no joking aside, in my letters in the mirror beside, for legal reasons, that's a joke. I'm joking.
01:18:41
Speaker
But yeah, the fact that there are all of these content creators out there that are making this content, and the other one that actually blew my mind, sorry, completely off topic, but the other one was during the 30th symphony concert that they did, and they shroomed it live, and there was a guy who does a lot of covers called Nate Wants to Battle.
01:19:01
Speaker
think his name is. See just seeing him show up. I mean, you know, I'm not like a dedicated fan or anything, but just the fact that I saw this YouTuber that I used to kind of listen to his covers and think, oh, that's cool, you know. And then I saw him on this huge celebration, I saw him like, I thought, that is absolutely massive. And it is just so good to even say good things while they do have the folks, you know, don't get me wrong. But at least they're considering that the fanbase is there, is very vocal in what it likes and
01:19:28
Speaker
it's content that's pushing out there, and they're actively encouraging that in some ways. Some ways better than others, of course, but it is great to see that content creators can get out there and then in turn hold up a wee flag to say, if you're a Sonic fan, come follow me, you know, kind of thing. They can be celebrated for what they do.
01:19:46
Speaker
Exactly and then that means that you get another sense of community that oh you're a fan of this person because you're a Panasonic and you all have this shared experience and again as she said I mean not everyone's going to have that same experience like you and I of course grew up with the you know the retro games and the adventure games primarily and some people as weird as it is to think about some people might have grown up with sonic colors some people might have grown up with
01:20:12
Speaker
even Sonic, but maybe not Sonic Forces, that's too, that's too valid. Yeah, I was getting ready to say, that's a... Yeah, I'm putting my foot down, that's too valid. Yeah, no, no, no, I was getting ready to say, we're gonna put a pin in that one because that is a... Not yet, not yet. Yeah, that's the thing though, it's like, I mean it's even like with Pokémon games or any other games that you grew up with, there's always going to be a different entry point for people and I feel as if that is like the kind of beauty of being.
01:20:37
Speaker
a Sonic fan, you can come into the franchise at any moment and have your own interpretation. Like, do you want to see silly Sonic? Do you want to see more serious Sonic that goes to space and nearly gets blown up? Do you want to see Sonic who travels the world? I'm not a massive fan of Sonic Unleashed. I love the design and everything, but
01:20:56
Speaker
know that's a whole other discussion but at the same time I see people who absolutely gush over the game and they make amazing artwork and you know it gives you an appreciation of these games and things it gives you just such a you know a different perspective and I feel as if that's what people need especially in terms of the Sonic fandom they have to tone it down a bit I would say and the critics again I'm not saying that Sonic fans are above critique nothing's above critique nothing's above having a critical analysis or something but at the same time
01:21:25
Speaker
You can't just kick down the door and call them where to cringe. You
Generational Embrace of Fandoms
01:21:29
Speaker
wouldn't break into someone's house and be like, you're cringe, and then walk away. Well, I hope you would. We'd hope not. I mean, theoretically you could, but it doesn't mean you should.
01:21:38
Speaker
There's someone at home just like sweating going, oh my god, they know. But no, I absolutely agree. And I think that's the beauty of modern fandoms and everything like that. I really do have like the different people that can come in at different entry points and things like that. But sometimes, like, especially with the fact that it is a franchise that spanned multiple generations, sometimes you come into it through your parents.
01:22:00
Speaker
or other things like that. And I think that is just so cool that there's a whole generation of kids out there growing up with Sonic, who was first exposed to Sonic through their parents. Where I work actually, believe it or not, I have a couple of people come in and their kids are super, super excited about Sonic. And then just like peeking out from like just underneath sometimes just like I remember actually one in particular barely peeking out from under this guy's sleeve. He had a little boy with him who had a Sonic t-shirt on.
01:22:27
Speaker
I saw the Green Hill checkerboard and he had had a sonic tattoo. And it's like, that's so cool to me. It's expanding generations and that is just so wholesome to me. It's nice to see that there is that side of the fandom still going really strong because at the end of the day you want to foster that positivity.
01:22:47
Speaker
I can't imagine that Pearson's son would be a Sonic fan if he sat him down and said, listen, the cyberspace levels are terrible. You know, if he was very negative, obviously, you wouldn't beat a child, hopefully not. But yeah, you wouldn't have an appreciation of the games themselves. So yeah, no, I completely agree. Kind of just jumping off that point. I swear this is my last point.
01:23:07
Speaker
But I remember when I went to see Sonic 2 and the cinema, of course, as I said, there was a lot of kids there with a parents and just the amount of kids there that were just so excited about the film, you know, and they were coming out of the film and they're like, oh, saying to the parents, oh, this was amazing. This was so good. And it felt so good seeing that reaction, you know, even though the parents were rolling their eyes, going, oh, great, another action film that I have to take my child.
01:23:35
Speaker
two kind of language. Fair enough if you're not into sorting, that's fine. But the fact the kids were still excited. If this came out when I was young, I would have gone nuts over this film. I would have been obsessed and everything. I still appreciate it. I still love it. But the fact that a new generation is getting a sense of appreciation, I think that's great. I do genuinely think that is such a
01:23:57
Speaker
positive thing. It's definitely something that I think for other people they have to allow to happen. Obviously, the internet's going to be the internet. Personally, I think the internet's never going to change. It's never going to let people enjoy things without having some critique. But the fact that there are safe spaces and groups and things that will stand up for you, will defend you and say, oh, I'm a sonic fan, or oh, I like this, or oh, I like that. Unless you like Sonic Lost World, in which case you're a lost cause. But no, for legal reasons, that's a joke.
01:24:27
Speaker
That's a joke. The legal team freaking out in the background. Yeah, there's like one person right behind me going like, don't you Jeff, don't you Jeff, you've had enough. You're up. But honestly, thank you so much for coming on tonight and discussing your own experiences on what it means to be a Sonic fan.
01:24:43
Speaker
Well, no, honestly, because it's almost cathartic in a way because it's not a topic I get to talk about a lot. And sort of when you broach the idea of this topic to me, I really started thinking about like what being a Sonic fan meant to me. And then I sort of realized that it's like at this point, it's not just a video game anymore. It's not just a flagship character who sort of took over my childhood. It's not just the games. It's not just the comics. It's not just the series, the films or the Saturday morning TV shows or anything like that. It's a part of my life that I didn't realize
01:25:13
Speaker
was so large and distinct and so I felt if anything it was just like it was really nice to be able to talk about it and to view it through such a positive lens because I mean we were there we know what it was like to be there but some other people may not know what it was like to be there and to sort of invoke
01:25:30
Speaker
this sense of, especially if there might be people listening who were a part of those areas, they might not have thought about it in a while, might be a little bit of nostalgia, or for people who are new to the fandoms, who didn't get a chance to experience the spaces that we were, which could be an interesting little sneak peek past the veneer, as it were. It was really nice, it was refreshing, and again, you're just great conversation, so I mean... Oh, thank you. You're welcome. You still have my PayPal, right?
01:25:57
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, um, WWE, WWE, your Omni fan, PayPal. That's the one. Okay, right, okay, that's right. Omni fan two. I must be Omni fan one. That's Omni two. Omni two, PayPal, okay.
01:26:12
Speaker
Again, legal reasons, please don't look that up. And I'm not saying no because there is some city secret, I genuinely don't know. The risk should just not be taken. But legal reasons, we have warned you, so please don't make this into a challenge like hashtag OmniFans. No, honestly, it's been absolutely fantastic talking to you and being able to hear about your journey with the franchise because you're completely right. When we were growing up, and this will make me sound so old, even though I am the big three-o, I'm probably a year behind Sonic.
01:26:41
Speaker
But the fact is that growing up in the 90s, early 2000s, it was a tough time for people who liked geeky stuff. And don't get me wrong, gaming, at least in Scotland anyway, gaming was a little more socially acceptable. People played a lot of games. I don't remember anyone being bullied for gaming.
01:27:00
Speaker
other hand I remember people being bullied for things like TV shows, comics, those kind of things if it wasn't the societal norm of the time and by that I mean like you know if it wasn't if you were like a boy you were like oh well like Powerpuff Girls or something like that or oh well like this and that to like
01:27:17
Speaker
a game like Sonic, you know, to be able to express that to someone without them turning around and exposing you. You know, it's like seeing you're a witch in Salem and then your best friend says, he's a witch! It's like, yo, mother! There's one here, one over here, over here! There's a Sonic friend here!
01:27:38
Speaker
I mean, Sonic probably wasn't the worst franchise to be into at the time, but at the same time, there were a lot of stigmas, obviously because of the Dark Age and everything didn't help that. The prevalence of OCs and everything didn't help either, so on a surface level, totally, it was like a dark time.
01:27:58
Speaker
Yeah, it is good to see that people are a lot more open with what they enjoy and everything with Sonic. And obviously, I know I'm gonna get people who are like, but Satsu, what about the weird and the dark stuff? And it's like, I'm gonna throw it out there. There's dark stuff in weirdos and every, as you said, weirdos and every fandom. It's just because Sonic has a massive spotlight on it.
01:28:21
Speaker
feel as if that's the one that gets the most attention compared to some of the others. Obviously OCs are maybe a wee bit more prevalent than Sonic but you can't sit here and tell me compared to other franchises that there's not your fair share of weirdos and ruffians and vagabonds.
01:28:37
Speaker
All I could really say is to summarise, just enjoy what you enjoy with this franchise. But as long as you're having fun and it's not being offensive, obviously, or anything like that, then go nuts. Just go forth. Create your OC. Exactly. Go forth. Populate your personal space with whatever you wish to do. Again, as long as it is not being openly harmful or offensive, go for it. The world is your oyster, young one. Be free.
01:29:02
Speaker
And it is
Conclusion and Content Promotion
01:29:03
Speaker
sad we have to add that disclaimer, but yes, won't you Sid Moth? Absolutely. But on that note, before we finish up, where can these lovely listeners find your content, Moth? Well, at the moment, I've really been sort of stepping back from content creation for a bit just to focus on life stuff.
01:29:19
Speaker
But if you want to find some more of my content, of course I am a streamer on Twitch. You can find me at WisteriaMoth on Twitch. So if you want to watch some of my old content, feel free. And I've been slowly drip feeding myself back into streaming as well. So if you like my content and you like what I do, then please feel free to give me a follow. I'm always so appreciative of each and every one that I find. Other social medias are in the works as well as a Discord channel, and I will update those as they come.
01:29:44
Speaker
And yeah, if you want to listen to more Chatsanami content, you of course can check out our website, podpage.com, forward slash Chatsanami. As we semi-joked about earlier, there is indeed a Patreon page now for Chatsanami, so if you want to check that out and see any bonus features over there, you can check it out at patreon.com forward slash Chatsanami. But yeah, Moth, thank you so, so much again for coming on this episode and yeah, discussing Sonic.
01:30:10
Speaker
Thank you for having me. Honestly, it's been so much fun. Like I said, I will take any excuse to talk about a topic that I'm really passionate about, and I can speak for the world, so I think we're good. Don't worry, the 12-hour cut is going to be roasted on Patreon, don't you worry? Oh yeah, absolutely. Top tier. Yeah, absolutely. That's the content people want to pay for. Me just rambling about Sonic OCs. And another thing! And another thing! Again, one last time, for legal reasons, that was a joke.
01:30:41
Speaker
Just in case there's one Sonic fan out there getting out the wallet going, oh man, I can't wait. He's like, I must know. He's like, yes, put your wallet away. I see you put your wallet away down. Step away from the card. But until then, thank you all so, so much for listening to this episode. Stay safe. Stay awesome. And most importantly, stay hydrated.
01:31:03
Speaker
Hey everyone, Sat Tsunami here. Just to let you know that we've officially launched a Patreon page. If you want to catch exclusive content from ourselves, as well as early access to future episodes, then please go to patreon.com forward slash Chat Tsunami. We also want to thank our two Pantalurian Patrons, BattleToaster and Sonya. Thank you so much for supporting the channel. As always, stay safe, stay awesome and most importantly, stay hydrated.
01:31:31
Speaker
This episode is sponsored by Zencaster. If you're a podcaster that records remotely like me, then you'll know how challenging it can be to create the podcast you've always wanted. That's where Zencaster comes in. Before I met Zencaster, I was put a naive podcaster, recording on low-quality, one-track audio waves.
01:32:06
Speaker
I want you to have the same easy experience I do for all my podcasting and content needs. It's time to share your story.