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#244 Creating, Connecting, and Sculpting w/ Isaac Scott
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In this podcast episode, the host interviews talented artist Isaac Scott, renowned for his unique sculptures inspired by everyday life, pottery and chess. Dive into Isaac's artistic journey from his time in Portugal to his experiences in art school, where he learned to adapt to its complex language and the importance of networking. Isaac also discuss the importance of staying true to your artistic vision, eliminating distractions, and finding joy in your work. Isaac shares insights on the art of communicating art in a way that's accessible to everyone and understanding your audience to add value to your work. The conversation is a journey through art, chess, and pottery, offering inspiration to listeners to find their voice and passion in the artistic process. You can learn more about Isaac by checking out his instagram @this_is_ceramics
Top 3 Value Bombs:
1. Staying True to Your Artistic Vision: Isaac Scott emphasizes the importance of staying true to your own vision of work, regardless of trends or the opinions of others. Chasing attention or approval can be unfulfilling in the long run. Instead, focusing on what you find interesting and staying authentic to your creative process can lead to more fulfilling and unique artwork.
2. Understanding Your Audience: Isaac shares insights on the importance of understanding your audience. When explaining or presenting your work, keeping the language simple and accessible can be more effective, especially for those not familiar with art terminology. This can make your work more relatable and appealing to a broader audience.
3. The Importance of Experimentation and Adaptation: Art school, as per Isaac's experience, provides a platform to experiment, adapt and evolve as an artist. It's not just about learning techniques, but also about learning to navigate the complex landscape of the art world, building relationships, and understanding the language of art.
and so much more
Get your 53 themes by clicking this link shapingyourpottery.com/53themes
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Transcript
Introduction to Pottery Themes
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey, real quick before we get started, if you would like to find your own theme for your pottery so your voice really stands out and you're not getting bored with making the same thing over and over again,
00:00:12
Speaker
I put together 53 themes for you guys, and it's completely free. All you have to do to get it is just go to shapingyourpottery.com forward slash 53 themes. That's shapingyourpottery.com forward slash five three themes. I think in the long run that's just done. Chasing your attention is kind of like is not coming out of people. Let's get started. Live your life.
00:00:42
Speaker
So just try to just keep making things that you find interesting to yourself. What is up, shaping nation?
Interview: Isaac Scott's Artistic Journey
00:00:49
Speaker
This is Nick Torres here. And on this episode of Shaping Your Pottery, I got to interview Isaac Scott. Isaac makes some really incredible sculptures that he creates from little moments of everyday life. In this episode, you will learn about
00:01:01
Speaker
art talks and keeping the art talks simple. You'll also learn about Isaac's time in Portugal and how that gained him new inspiration for his current work that he's working on. You'll also learn about how finding your unique pottery voice is a learned skill. And there's so much more in this episode and I hope you guys enjoy it. I'll see you guys in there.
00:01:22
Speaker
Isaac, welcome to Shaping Your Pottery and share with me, what is something people might not know about? Well, thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it. It was really exciting when you reached out to me. So I appreciate that. One thing that people, you know, maybe not know about me is I love chess and I really got into chess when I was like during the pandemic, I think.
00:01:49
Speaker
But it was around the time that Queen's Gambit, the show on Netflix, came out. And everybody got into chess for like a hot second, but I just kind of never stopped. I'm pretty deep into chess now. And I even watch it for, I watch chess tournaments and stuff now. It's kind of nuts. I love that. My niece is really good at chess. She's like 12. She can beat me and my brother. She's really good.
00:02:19
Speaker
Tell me a story how you got started.
Discovering a Passion for Ceramics
00:02:21
Speaker
So like my very first experience of play was actually in, or the one that I can remember was in sixth grade. And that was an art class. And we had one kind of section of the class that was dedicated to play. And I think we made
00:02:41
Speaker
We threw one pot on the wheel. Like we each got to take turns and we each got to throw one thing on the wheel and I made a bowl. And I just remember how fun that was. And when I was, when I was like in sixth grade, I was like, Oh, I really want to be able to do that again someday.
00:02:59
Speaker
And so when I realized there was like a clay class in my high school, once I got into high school, I really wanted to take the class, but I wasn't able to take an elective like that until my junior year. And so I ended up taking ceramics, my junior and senior year of high school. And that's kind of where I really fell in love with clay and I kind of never looked back since then. I love that. So tell me the story about why you decided to get your, your master's in final. So.
Path to Art School
00:03:29
Speaker
I, I never really, so first of all, I, when I was an undergrad, I did philosophy and, but like I said, after starting doing ceramics in high school, I really never looked back. So I did it throughout my, my junior, senior year of high school. And then I was doing ceramics outside of school through my undergrad career. I never took like art classes. I was never in art school.
00:03:59
Speaker
So I never, for one, I never thought I would go back to school and get a master's and I certainly didn't think I'd go to art school. I was pretty scared to go to art school because I thought that school would ruin art for me. And I didn't have that creative a relationship with school. And I just thought that if I mixed, you know, school with the thing that I really loved, I would, it would ruin it. And I wouldn't be left without anything.
00:04:29
Speaker
after that, that I was passionate about. So I really didn't want to go to art school or especially get an MFA, but I met Roberto Lugo in Enceca in, I think it was in Kansas City. Yeah, it was in the Kansas City Enceca. I forget what year that was. It was probably like 2016 or something like that.
00:04:59
Speaker
something like that. I don't remember, but I, I met him and he was like, uh, an inspiration for me. He was, he was someone I looked up to in the art world and I got to meet him and we kind of developed a relationship and he became a little bit of a mentor for me. And in 2000, I think 17, I got to do a workshop at Haystack Mountain School of Craft.
00:05:29
Speaker
And where he was teaching, like a two week workshop. And while at that workshop, he said that he had just gotten his dream job at Tyler School of Art, which is part of Temple University in Philadelphia. And that he would love it if I considered applying to get my MFA there. Which I was kind of blown away by because I was like, I don't even know if I'm qualified for this.
00:05:56
Speaker
I've never been to art school before. I don't know how I would even begin the process. And I also didn't really have a studio at the time to work out of. I was living in Seattle at the time and I didn't have access to a studio. So I was really like kind of like, I didn't really know how to take that information. But it was kind of like this weird thing, like the stars have kind of aligned. I got a job where I could actually make work to make a portfolio and
00:06:26
Speaker
So I just went through the process. I applied to school. I made a portfolio and I actually didn't get in the first time, but the second time that I applied, I did get in. So that was kind of like a long winded version, but it really came down to I really didn't want to go to art school, but I think I just trusted like him. I trusted Roberto with me going to art school and
00:06:51
Speaker
hopefully it not ruining it for me through that process. So how did how did attending art school help with your growth?
The Art School Experience
00:07:00
Speaker
I think the biggest thing that art school does, especially grad school, is it gives you like depending on how long the program is like a two or three year period where like you can really like experiment and not have the weight of
00:07:18
Speaker
Oh, I have to sell this. Oh, it has to go into a show. Oh, it has to like, it's going to go out into the world and have some like serious consequences on my like future or the career or I don't know, something like that. For me, it was really a void of those pressures. Obviously there's a pressure of like, Oh my God, I have to make something for critique and then everybody's going to like talk about it and sometimes make me feel bad about what I just made.
00:07:47
Speaker
I think it's like, it's an opportunity to explore. And for me personally, it was a place where I could try working with clay in a way I had never worked before. And also try out different mediums I have never tried before because I didn't go to art school. So like clay was literally the only thing I knew walking into school. But then I got to try photography and printmaking when I was there.
00:08:13
Speaker
And I worked with clay with it in completely different ways. I had never worked with it before. So that was like, all those things I think really benefited me a lot when I was there. I still didn't really like the school aspect of it, but you know, you can't have, you can't have everything. What were, what were some of the things you were trying out with the clay when you were there? So the first thing that I tried, like, like my very, the very first project I tried to work on
00:08:42
Speaker
was making this giant like 12 foot statue of my sister. And I had never worked with like figuratively with clay before. And so, you know, that obviously the first thing I tried doing was making a full double life size sculpture, which was crazy. It was like madness. And my professors multiple times told me like to stop making it and
00:09:11
Speaker
kind of looked at me crazy when I was in my reviews and stuff. But, you know, I was pretty determined to like do this thing, but that kind of got, that whole project kind of got sidelined when the pandemic hit, because everything got sidelined. I lost access to my studio and to play. And that was basically for almost a year. And that's how I lost access to play. So that was pretty devastating because I hadn't really had that since
00:09:41
Speaker
I started doing clay in high school. So that was kind of like first time in a while that clay was like not part of my life. So it was kind of a weird thing to go through at that time. So how did, what is one thing that you learned from art school that you still use? I mean, in grad school, the other thing that you learn is like how to talk art, like how art people talk about art, which is maybe some people
00:10:10
Speaker
if they had gone to undergrad and art school, like knew what was going on, but I didn't know what was going on. So I had to like adapt to that and learn, like we would get into reviews. I'm like, what are, like, why are people talking like this? And so that was something I had to adapt to and, and figure out in, you know, it's just like with any profession or any like, kind of like when, when people build like an expertise or a school or something, they kind of have their own way of talking or, or looking at something or,
00:10:39
Speaker
have a wing go around it. And so that's something that has like, has benefited me, you know, just, just being aware of that and like figure it being able to navigate that. And so, and then like, you're asking what, what are the things that benefited me or I still. Yeah. I think that was like, that was like the biggest thing. I mean, the other things are like, I still have, you know, contacts with like some of the people I went to school with.
00:11:09
Speaker
I think some of the most valuable things that you have is like the peers that you go to school with. That's the other thing that art school provides is like you, you obviously, you know, people talk about networking and how important that is. Well, like eventually the people that you go to school with, they're going to be jurors for things. They're going to own galleries. They're going to work at museums. They're going to, you know, be part of the art world. And so.
00:11:35
Speaker
or there's to be fellow artists that you can collaborate with or go to their art shows or like help out with different things. And you get to have a lot of cool experiences like through that. Like, so, you know, like having that kind of network or having like people like that around you is, is like awesome and so cool and makes your life more interesting. So that's like, that's an aspect of art school that was pretty cool.
00:12:03
Speaker
Definitely. Shaping Nation, if you get around other artists, other people that make pottery, your skills are going to grow and you're also going to make a lot of connections with them. I love that so much. So you mentioned this art talk. Can you give me an example of what that might look like? Yeah. I mean, you can think about how
00:12:23
Speaker
Like there's, there's like a, like a, like a kind of a joke that would go around that people would say a lot when it came to like critiques is like, what's at stake here, you know? And, and, you know, like something like that, like, like a professor that would like to say that a lot is like, what's at stake with your art? And it's like, when you're outside of art school, when you're outside of those four walls, like no one cares. Like no one cares about, they're like, oh my God, that's a really pretty color, you know?
00:12:53
Speaker
Or they're like, Oh, that's, that looks like a, like a, like a, this or like it, you know, that, that looks like a, like a, Oh, you can almost kind of see a face in there or something like that. People don't say like, Oh my God, like what, what's at stake here in like, in like the, like what narrative is being played out? Like, how is this critiquing, like, like accurately critiquing like the patriarchy or something? Like, I don't know. It's like you have.
00:13:19
Speaker
The questions that, like the considerations and the questions that happen inside critique are, I think, super interesting and valuable in the moment. But when you get outside of the art world, or you get outside of the art school, I would say, and you're talking
Art Talk Accessibility
00:13:38
Speaker
to, and you're just talking to like a regular person who's not like consumed by the art world about art, like their considerations are completely
00:13:49
Speaker
different than what we're talking about, like really heady stuff that's like in the art school. And even if you're talking to a collector, you know, I've had experiences I've talked to collectors or people who like run galleries and stuff like that. When you talk about your work, you know, a lot of times just talking about it in very simple, plain English terms, they're like, Oh my God, wow, that's so interesting. And
00:14:12
Speaker
like valuable, you know, and I didn't, you don't have to go to these really heady, like weird places that, that you find in the critique, you know, as, as, as interesting as it can, it can be to, to be in that. I think it's almost solely useful for like the people that are, you know, in academia. Hmm. Yeah. But, but it's, I'm not saying it's not valuable, but I'm saying it like,
00:14:41
Speaker
A lot of things we like to talk about in art world is who's your audience? You know, when people are talking about like, you look at a piece of art and maybe that art is trying to say something, right? Maybe it's trying to say something about the Black experience and you're thinking about who's your audience? Is it just Black people? Is it just people who understand the history or are aware of Black issues in America? Would this
00:15:10
Speaker
painting or sculpture makes sense to somebody in like a different country or who is not aware of that? Is it speaking to something bigger than that? So you're thinking about things that are, you know, people say like, who's your audience? It's like, okay, well, like when I'm making work, I'm thinking about someone who has like absolutely no idea what like the history of art is or, you know, like heady theory stuff. Like I'm talking to a person who's just like a regular,
00:15:40
Speaker
person, you know, so that's, that's, that's always like my, my, my goal. And, and I also like to, you know, have to showcase my technical skills to an extent, because I like to be appreciated by my peers in the ceramics world, but it's from like a purely like art, like standpoint. It's like, it, I'm not, I'm not trying to go like super heady with it. I'm not trying to be like overly, I don't know, like, like,
00:16:10
Speaker
heady with what I'm trying to get across. I really want to talk to a person who knows nothing about art, really. I love that. Shaping Nation, if you're going to give an explanation about your pottery, try to keep it simple because not everybody knows art. They don't know the art. I mean, like for example, you go to a museum or you go to a gallery and they have the big didactic, like all the words
00:16:32
Speaker
at the beginning of a show, then you'd have to sit there and read a whole essay before you even see the art. If that paragraph or a few paragraphs is super heady, and they're using a bunch of big words and stuff, people are gonna glaze over and be like, what are they even, who cares? Especially if the artwork isn't itself interesting.
00:16:58
Speaker
But like, or what I always find annoying is the words on the wall are more interesting than what's like the actual work in the room. So I always want that, like the work in the room to speak to me and then be like, and then come back to the words. And like, hopefully that even elaborates further what I just experienced. Definitely agree. So let's talk about your pottery. In one sentence, can you tell me what? So I make work that one sentence.
00:17:28
Speaker
I make work that reflects and reimagines the world around me through clay. So can you tell me the story how you started making the work that you make today?
Portuguese Inspirations
00:17:39
Speaker
So the current series that I'm making right now is actually inspired by a trip that I took to Portugal last November. So I was like, you know, fortunate enough to get invited by my friend who his family has an apartment in Lisbon. So I went
00:17:58
Speaker
and spent some time with him. And I also, while I was there, I applied and got into an art residency that did for two weeks. And I just traveled on my own for about two weeks as well. And like during that time, I learned a lot about the history of like slavery and, you know, basically black or African, like people who have African descent in general from on the, in Portugal, basically. And,
00:18:27
Speaker
that kind of really inspired me to make work based on like the places that I visited and some of the history that I learned when I was there. And so that's like my current work is a series of heads that basically reflect on that. So what is it about this stuff that you that you went to in Portugal? Well, first off, I spent
00:18:56
Speaker
the first two weeks in Lisbon and that city is like bananas. It's like so beautiful. Like it's so beautiful. The architecture is like is nuts. Everything is so old and just like it's so like, especially like the older parts of the city are like so like ornate and like over the top.
00:19:21
Speaker
And you're like, how, how, how, how is this possible? And there's all these like crazy marble statues everywhere and there's like tiled streets in, in, in that, that go in all these like elaborate designs and you have all these like tiled, there's like ceramic tiles that cover all these walls and all these like elaborate patterns and stuff. And you're just like, and it's all like as old as our country is basically, like everything there is around like,
00:19:49
Speaker
200 and like over 250 years old and that's because they had like a fire That or like an earthquake that that that took down the entire city in like 17 like 55 or something like that so the whole city is like was built rebuilt around the time that our country is founded and So you're just thinking about that like how old this place is and it's much much older than that and there's even like Roman ruins there and stuff and always all these things and
00:20:19
Speaker
And so you're thinking about all the history that's taken place in this place, and you think about how ornate and beautiful everything is, and how did it get to that point? Because Portugal is a good country I never really even think about. Outside of Cristiano Ronaldo, I had no idea about Portugal. I was literally almost next to nothing about it.
00:20:41
Speaker
So getting there and you're seeing all this like wealth and extravagance and like beauty that at least used to be there because like right now it's not like as like their economy isn't very strong. It's basically completely like pendant on tourism at this point because like their whole economy. But at one point you're seeing like this place was like on top, right? And at one point Lisbon was the richest city in the world. Well, what caused that? What happened?
00:21:11
Speaker
Well, it was, they started the transatlantic slave trade. So, you know, like, Oh, okay. And I kind of like knew that from like somewhere in my like history courses in, you know, in high school or something like that. But so it was kind of like something I was like somewhere in the back of my mind, but I didn't really kind of think about it until I was actually there. But I was just so blown away by this place. I was like, yo, I gotta find out more.
00:21:40
Speaker
Like how does this place come to be? Like it looks like right now, like it's in the 1700s, it's nuts. So I was finding all this information out and then I learned about how they basically went down, they had these ships that could finally make it further down the coast of Africa. They went down there and they took people, they took Africans
00:22:09
Speaker
And those are the first people taken in like 1455. And then shortly after that, the Pope ordained the Henry the navigator, who was the king of Portugal at the time to take people and make them Christians. And that's basically the beginning of the transatlantic slave trade. And, you know, shortly after that, Lisbon becomes like the wealthiest country in Europe and
00:22:37
Speaker
You know, it's just like a, it's just like a really crazy thing. And I think about how that related to, you know, everything that happened in the US and how we're still dealing with racism and stuff and how they deal with that there and the differences. And it's just, it's just really interesting just to think about, you know, all, all the things that, that led to basically me, a free black man, like being in Portugal.
00:23:05
Speaker
and experiencing all that for the first time. It was just this, this whirlwind story. So that's what, that's what kind of got me, that was like the first thing that kind of like got me intrigued and then got me like my juices flowing. And that's how I kind of ended up pursuing the current series that I'm working on now. I loved it. That was really interesting as well too. I would love to learn more about that.
00:23:31
Speaker
So let's, can you explain to me how you come up with the designs for your sculptures? I think that like, I'm always like thinking about things that I could make. And then I actually don't even like sketch that much, but I like, like on paper, like if I, if I'm scared and want to forget something, I'll sketch something in like a notebook or something, or I'll write an idea down in my notes on my, in my phone. But a lot of times I'm just sketching in my head a lot.
00:24:00
Speaker
I sketch a lot in my head, like all the time about like what I'm going to, to make. And I think it's just like, just like little things that I see in like a day. And maybe I want to, I want to know more about something. Like sometimes I'll be like a building or a place that I'm like, Oh, that place is really beautiful. That's really interesting. And then I want to learn the history. Like how did it become like that or something like that.
00:24:28
Speaker
Maybe that informs what I make or maybe it doesn't, I don't know. But I think just like the way I come up with designs is I'm just always sketching in my head about what I could make. And then hopefully it just comes out right. I don't know. And then sometimes as I'm making something, I make adjustments. I'm like, oh my God, that's even cooler than what I was in my head. This isn't kind of coming out.
00:24:55
Speaker
Like I thought it was, I saw it in my head, so I'm learning to make some adjustments. And I still, I still come out with something interesting, but it's just a little different. I don't know. I really like to have like, I think, I think one of the things I really like to do is like have like a really like, like set. Like, like before I was making these, like these things called riot cups. And they're all in this, they're brown the same size and the same shape of a cup. But then there was like basically infinite variety from there where I could just react to the clay.
00:25:24
Speaker
But I kind of had like a boundary of it being like a certain size and kind of like a certain shape. And then I could go off from that. And then similar with the work I'm doing now, like are all heads that are roughly the same size and have a face obviously. And then you, everything else that is there from then is just kind of me reacting to it and into the idea and, and, and like kind of going out from there. So.
00:25:51
Speaker
I kind of like to give myself like a certain structure to work from and then kind of branch out from there. I think it helps me a lot with how I work. I love that. Shaping Nation, have an idea in your head of what you are trying to make, but don't be afraid to make small adjustments so that that idea becomes even better in your mind. It makes it even cooler. I like that a lot. So let's talk about discovering your voice.
00:26:19
Speaker
You contribute your growth as an artist to staying true to your vision of work and not letting others opinions or trends get in the way. Can you explain this to me further?
Staying True to Artistic Vision
00:26:30
Speaker
I mean, I think one of the things that you see like a lot of now, and I guess a little bit in ceramics, but what I see a lot is just like online, you'll see one person do something online that's successful to go viral. And then you'll see like,
00:26:47
Speaker
50,000 more people do like the exact same thing and to like chase that idea of becoming viral or like famous or something. And I think in the long run, that's just like chase chasing, you know, attention is, is kind of like, is, is not going to be like a fruitful way to live your life. So.
00:27:11
Speaker
Just try to, try to just keep making things that you find interesting to yourself. And I think other people will find that interesting eventually. I think that's the biggest thing. So what was the question again? It was, you contribute growth in artists to stay true of your vision and not letting others opinions. So, you know, staying, staying true to like what you really, like, what do you actually find most interesting about clay and, and.
00:27:38
Speaker
What kind of clay world do you want to live in? Or what kind of work do you want to see in the world? And my suggestion is to make that work. Don't see some mugs that are going viral online and then try to reproduce that in some way. Or see someone who has a bunch of posts. Who's like, I don't know.
00:28:06
Speaker
marketing themselves in a certain way, I guess, and on Instagram or some, or YouTube or something like that, and then try to replicate that. Just like, like, what, what, like, what kind of, like, how, how do you want ceramics to exist online or how do you want the ceramics to exist in the world? And then like, what, what do you have available to you to, to, to make that right now or how can you work towards making that? And.
00:28:34
Speaker
Or like, what kind of podcast do you want ceramics to have? You know, maybe that's, you know, another thing. So, uh, and then make the steps towards, towards making that. So I think that's, that's like always having that goal in mind, even if it's down the road, I think is, is important and like something to, to, to work for. Definitely great shaping nation. Don't chase the attention of like trying to make something that you think will maybe sell or maybe will go viral.
00:29:01
Speaker
makes the stuff that you wanna make and all that will come in the end, I promise you that. So what advice would you give to someone trying to discover their own unique voice with their pottery? I think that like the, I think finding your voice, I think that's just something that like, it's something that's learned, right? So people like to say, oh, I'm not really creative or like I'm not, you know, I'm not good with
00:29:31
Speaker
you know, like clay or I'm not good with painting or something. But it's like, it's all really just things that are learned skills. You know, some people are naturally gifted at certain things maybe, but if that skill isn't developed, if they don't have any like real passion with it, it's not gonna go anywhere. So, you know, I think that like the same with like finding like your voice or like, what is my work look like? You know, I think that all that just is gonna come
00:30:01
Speaker
naturally from actually pursuing, you know, what work do you want to make in pursuing that? And, and kind of, and there has to be like a fearlessness about that too, because you're going by, by pursuing work like that, you're going to make stuff that's weird and it's going to be bad, you know, initially, but you kind of have to trust, you have to trust that initial vision that you had in your head and the confidence that you had about that's what you wanted.
00:30:31
Speaker
Cause at some, at some point you might even doubt like, Oh my God, is that even like worth making? But you have, like, if that's something that you really are passionate about and really believed in, like you should probably just like finish and like pursue it, you know? And eventually that's going to make sense. So I think that's, I think that's just like, I think the only way to develop your voice is to do that process and then repeat it and then repeat it.
00:31:01
Speaker
and then repeat it. And eventually you're gonna look back and you're gonna have work that is just only could be made by you because you took all the work, you took all the risks and you made some weird stuff and then eventually made it look really good or you made it make sense. It all kind of like fits together. And that's only something that you can do over time is like no amount of like,
00:31:27
Speaker
art school or any of that stuff is gonna, you just have to like make work. I think you just have to make work and like take risks and eventually it'll be yours. Definitely. Shaping Nation, you got to take those risks. If you have a weird idea, go make that idea. Go make it come to life. Go do those things. And the other thing too is if you fail and it's just bad and you don't like it and you're not passionate about it anymore, then you've eliminated something that isn't your voice, you know?
00:31:58
Speaker
So now you don't have to worry about that thing because that's not, that's not you. So, okay. I went for this thing. I crashed and burned. It was terrible. Okay. Well, that's not me. So I was going to try a different thing now. And so they don't have to worry about that anymore. But if it's like, it's something like, Oh, I really wish I could do this. And then you just like never do it. And it's, it's always going to be something you wish you could have done, I guess.
00:32:24
Speaker
Absolutely. I love that. You're eliminating things to find that one thing that you actually like. I like that a lot. So as we are coming to a close here, what is one thing you want to hammer home with my audience today? Hammer home. I guess just try to build something. Make some cool stuff and find something you're passionate about and pursue it. If you're in art school,
00:32:53
Speaker
If you are getting an MFA or BFA or whatever, do whatever you can to find joy and don't let art school ruin it for you. Definitely. Some excellent parting words of advice. Isaac, it was so great chat today. Where can my audience go without you? You can go to my, my Instagram at this underscore is underscore ceramics. I also have a photography Instagram, and this is, this is photography 2020. I have a website that, which is Isaac pottery.com.
00:33:22
Speaker
And those are the best ways to look at my work.