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Episode 122: Writing Sales Pages that Sell
250 Plays4 years ago
Copywriter Jess Jordana is back on the podcast to chat about writing sales page copy, we actually recorded this episode when we recorded our last episode together and I've been really excited to share this one with you. We get to what I think are going to be some really helpful tips for crafting sales page copy but even if you’re a services provider or you sell products these are tips that you're going to be able to use to level up your services pages and your product pages too. If you're new to the podcast check out a few of the other episodes where I interview Jess she always brings excellent insights to the topics we discussed and keeps it super practical.
For show notes visit...https://daveyandkrista.com/btb-episode-122-jess-jordana/
Recommended
Transcript
Importance of Sales Pages
00:00:05
Speaker
I think if you're wondering, do I need a sales page? Typically what people need sales pages for are one to a few or one to many kind of offers. So whether that is a digital product that needs a little bit more explanation like the pamphlets do or like a group program or a mastermind or something like that, you're going to want a sales page so that you can have the real estate to really coach people into that decision.
Introduction and Guest Overview
00:00:35
Speaker
Welcome to the Brands at Book Show, where we help creative, service-based businesses build their brands and find more clients. I'm your host, Davy Jones.
00:00:46
Speaker
Copywriter Jess Jordana is back on the podcast to chat about writing sales page copy. We actually recorded this episode when we recorded our last episode together and I've been really excited to share this one with you. We get into what I think are going to be some really helpful tips for crafting sales page copy. But even if you're a services provider or you sell products, these are tips you're going to be able to use to level up your services pages and your product pages too.
00:01:11
Speaker
And if you're new to the podcast, check out a few of the other episodes where I interview Jess. She always brings excellent insight to the topics we discuss and keeps it super practical. Be sure to check out the show notes at DavyandChrista.com for the resources we mentioned during the episode. And we'd like to hear from you. Let us know what kind of content you'd like to see on the Brands That Book podcast as we move forward. To leave your feedback, just send us a DM on Instagram at DavyandChrista. Now onto the episode.
Effective Sales Page Writing with Jess Jordana
00:01:42
Speaker
All right, we are back with another episode of the Brands of the Book podcast and back with a fan favorite. Certainly a favorite of ours. Copywriter Jessica Jordana, welcome.
00:01:52
Speaker
Hi, thanks for having me. Again, this is always a pleasure. Yeah. And actually, again, this is one of a few episodes where you're recording all at once. So lots of great content being recorded this morning. Extra early for you, right? Would it be Pacific time or Mountain time? No, Mountain time. We started at eight o'clock. I'm usually up at five, so it's whatever. So you're up at five. So does that mean, do you work typically till five in the afternoon?
Jess's Personal Insights
00:02:20
Speaker
Are you done earlier?
00:02:21
Speaker
I usually work until about 4.30 or 5. I have a very extensive morning routine that I'm really milking until I have this baby because I know it's going to go away. I have my coffee in the morning, my quiet time, I read and I take notes.
00:02:37
Speaker
It's great. So I'm just trying to relish in that for as long as I can. All right. Well, we'll, we'll have to compare notes. I, you know, I think you'll still, you'll still have a morning routine. It'll look a little bit different. I've been getting up at four in the morning, but I don't work till five. That's a long day. Yeah. I mean, working from five, getting up at five and working till five still a long day. My husband also goes, like he gets to work at five 30 in the morning and he gets home at like four 35. So we're both working basically all day.
00:03:06
Speaker
Yeah, he's working a long day too.
Weather and Lifestyle Chat
00:03:08
Speaker
Both of those are impressive. I find that I am ready for some sort of break at around noon, and then I have another hour or two in me after that. But even working just from four to noon is about eight hours close to. Yeah, it's a lot. Yeah, so that's my goal. I really front load my day. Can't have too long of a morning routine because then all my energy is like,
00:03:31
Speaker
You know, I get to the actual work portion and I'm like, I have nothing left, you know? Yeah. So I try to start with like some sort of quiet time, but then I do straight into work from there usually. Yeah. I need time to marinade in the day before I start working for sure. Yeah. Well, when it gets warmer out and you're in New Mexico, so what are we looking at temperature wise right now? It's like Colorado weather. It's pretty cold.
00:03:59
Speaker
I don't know what Colorado weather is. Really? You don't picture like mountains and snow. Yeah, I guess, I guess, I guess I do. Yeah. So people know more about Colorado than they do New Mexico. So that's what I always say. I guess I just think desert in New Mexico. That's where I grew up. That's the other side of the state, which is like white sands, desert, all of that kind of stuff. So you're like in the, what Flagstaff is to Arizona. Yes, exactly.
00:04:26
Speaker
That's cool. That's great. I'm still watching snow melt here. It's been a snowier than usual winter. And so I'm grateful to be in our, you know, new house, but I'm ready for winter to be over. Yeah, I bet. With all those animals too. Yeah. You know, farming is a different ball game in the winter. You know, and obviously this is my first year in it. So it's like, yeah, you don't get to just stay inside.
00:04:52
Speaker
Yeah, so animals have to be fed regardless and taken care of, regardless of what the weather is outside. So that's a whole new thing. And another reason why I'm looking forward to warmer weather and just longer days, I mean, what is it? March 14th, I think, is when we get to what? Spring back, right? Turn back the clocks?
Sales Page Fundamentals
00:05:14
Speaker
Spring forward. Yeah, that doesn't make sense. Fall back.
00:05:17
Speaker
Thanks. Anyways, here we are. We're talking about sales pages. And this is, I think especially in 2020, right? We started talking a lot more about digital products for obvious reasons. So we saw, you know, just a lot more questions about creating sales pages and launching digital products. And sales pages are just so crucial in, I think, selling, well, selling anything, but especially digital products where, you know, you might not have any human interaction with somebody before they buy your product, right?
00:05:46
Speaker
Whereas with your service-based business, you're probably calling somebody, certain purchases, you're in the store, you're talking to somebody, whatever it might be. So I'm excited to dive in and talk about sales pages. And I feel like you provide just such great content and resources for anybody looking to create copy. Do you have a sales page promptlet?
00:06:07
Speaker
We are working on one as we speak. So we will be launching our sales page promptly at the end of March, which I think is about when this episode is going
Sales vs. Service vs. Product Pages
00:06:16
Speaker
to go live. But we have a wait list right now for people to get on and sales pages are an entirely different beast from website copy. And so I think
00:06:26
Speaker
felt like it was so necessary to separate the two, but the sales page promptly has been the thing that people have requested from us for like over a year. So I'm excited to finally get it out there for people to use.
00:06:38
Speaker
I am excited to see that too. I just ask because the rest of your promptlets are such valuable resources and our clients on the website side of things who use your promptlets always end up with such great copy. That just goes such a long way when it comes to designing a website.
00:06:56
Speaker
a resource that we have happily pointed people to and I think a sales page promptly is going to be perfect. But for people who are even working with a sales page promptly or trying to write something from scratch or improve sales pages that they already have, I think this will be the episode for you. So let's just, I guess, talk about what a sales page is and maybe how it differs a little bit from just your website copy in general or maybe even something like a services page or a product page.
00:07:24
Speaker
Yeah, as I was thinking about how to define a sales page, I felt like it was really hard because it could be a lot of different things. But I feel like that one common thing is that it is one page that is pointing to one offer and is typically speaking to one person, if at all possible. So I think that's different than a services page sometimes because
00:07:48
Speaker
a lot of services pages end up being like a catch all sort of page for all of our different types of services and things like that. I don't necessarily advise that you create a services page that's speaking to like a million different people at the same time. I teach people to kind of separate those out, but at the same time, your services page might have a low package, a medium package, a higher package sort of thing.
00:08:13
Speaker
Whereas on a sales page, the only variance you're going to have in options for people to choose is maybe like a payment plan or something. So it's still pointing to the same offer, the same thing that you're going to deliver to them. And then a product page is closer to a sales page. I think typically
Focus and Structure of Sales Pages
00:08:31
Speaker
product pages are a lot shorter and usually product pages are very heavy on like the logistics and the features.
00:08:39
Speaker
versus getting more into that mindset and like coaching people into the problem and then showing them what the solution is, all of that kind of stuff. So product pages are typically a quicker hit than a sales page is going to be.
00:08:53
Speaker
Yeah, and I like the distinction you made of the singular focus of a sales page. And of course, some of these distinctions, we're going to find a lot of the same characteristics from sales page to product page to services page. One of the things that I like to think through or think of when I'm comparing a services page and a sales page is
00:09:12
Speaker
the components that you find in the sales page, yes, lots of them might show up on a services page, but if you look at the entire services experience, what you would find in a sales page might start on a services page, but then end on a phone call with you. So you might be trying to get people to take sort of an intermediate step before they pull out their credit card and start paying for your service of talking to you where you can walk them through the rest of it. Whereas with a sales page,
00:09:41
Speaker
Yeah, there might be like a live chat or something like that, and they could certainly email you with questions, but in an ideal world, right? You know, after maybe some nurturing in an email sequence, and we just recorded a podcast on that, they would land on your sales page and then they'd go by. And again, very singular focus, different than you were saying from a product page where maybe they're browsing other products or they're just kind of
00:10:02
Speaker
They're not quite sure what product they need out of many. And a sales page is just going to be very laser focused on getting people to purchase that product and give them all the information that they need in order to do that. So I really like that distinction. I think if you're wondering, do I need a sales page? Typically what people need sales pages for are one to a few or one to many kind of offers. So whether that is
00:10:28
Speaker
a digital product that needs a little bit more explanation like the prompt let's do, or like a group program or a mastermind or something like that. You're going to want a sales page so that you can have the real estate to really coach people into that decision so that they can arrive at a decision instead of with like a services page that it's less of a commitment to a decision and more of a commitment to like, I'm interested in this. Let's see where it
Key Elements of Sales Pages
00:10:56
Speaker
goes. Kind of thing.
00:10:57
Speaker
Yeah, like a commitment to learn more or something like that and taking the next step versus whatever that final decision is. But I think regardless of whether you need a sales page or not, maybe you're not selling a course and so with a course, for instance, you would send people to a sales page and
00:11:12
Speaker
As just said, that singular focus of getting them to take action typically means that there's not going to be a top level navigation on that page. You don't want to distract them to go elsewhere. You're not going to include links to your about page. You're going to only want to bring them down to the page eventually to purchase.
00:11:28
Speaker
I think if you learn how to create an effective sales page, then you can take that and then you can apply all that to your services and products pages for sure. And they're going to benefit from that. So I still think if you sell anything, I think this episode is relevant to you. So where do we start? All right, we have, we need to create a sales page. Where do we start? Yeah, I think you start with your offer in mind and who it's for.
00:11:57
Speaker
So when I say your offer, I'm not just talking about like, Hey, here's a course kind of thing. I'm talking about what is the promised outcome that you are claiming they can get from whatever you're going to deliver. So that is really the core of your offer. So I will use my product as an example. The promptlets will help you write copy that connects quickly and converts consistently.
00:12:23
Speaker
That's a promised outcome. So that is really the core of the offer and I need to build everything around that. And then I know that who it's for is a business owner who's trying to write their own copy. So that's one person. It's not necessarily for a copywriter who's trying to write copy for clients. It's not necessarily intended for somebody with a dream who doesn't necessarily have a business yet or anything like that. That's not,
00:12:52
Speaker
trying to exclude people or be rude or anything. It's just knowing who it's for. And so I think a lot of times people get scared to really narrow down that like who it's for category. But if you don't know that, then you can't speak directly to them and make them feel like that's where they belong and what they are meant to make a decision in that point. So I think starting with the offer, it's rare that anybody goes from
00:13:22
Speaker
like unaware to purchasing something solely because of a name. So I think a lot of times we name our products and we get like really hung up on the name, but it's really not the name that's going to convert people. And so whether you just name your product
00:13:40
Speaker
course for wedding planners or something like that. The SEO course. Yes, it's going to be that outcome that people are buying into more so than the name of the course. So I would tell people not to get hung up on the name, but to think of the offer as whatever that outcome is, and that's going to become the core of your sales page.
00:14:01
Speaker
I think one of the most important things you just said is that offer equals outcome. The offer is not the product necessarily. Something I said before on the podcast is people don't buy products, they buy offers. Really thinking about that outcome when you craft your offer and it typically is going to include more even than whatever the core product is. There's probably other things that they're buying into. Not only
00:14:26
Speaker
the outcome, but then other things like bonuses that push them over the edge. And I think that even from an ad perspective, so in tell agency, when we see, you know, if things aren't working, how we think they ought to, a lot of times it comes down to the offer, you know, the offer itself needs to be tweaked. And if you're kind of wondering,
00:14:45
Speaker
I think both this goes for who it is for too. Well, how can I make sure that I have something that people want? Beta launches I think are really important. I hope Taylor talked a little bit about this in the episode we did on course creation. So you get some feedback and you get to hear what people are actually saying and the problems they're actually complaining about as well. So really like that offer tied to outcome.
00:15:11
Speaker
Yeah, a couple of things on that. I had a student send me an email today saying she is a student who is working on refining her message and everything. And she just launched for the second time a program that she offers to people. And she said she got no interest, no questions, no conversation, no anything like crickets totally. And I know that that is
00:15:37
Speaker
so disheartening whenever that happens, but what that tells me is that the offer was not what people wanted. And that might be the actual offer. So like the container that she's delivering it in, whatever she's talking about, or it might be how the offer is messaged. It could be either one, but if there's no buying signal whatsoever, like questions or buying signals,
00:15:59
Speaker
then that means that people really don't want it. And so you have to go back to like, okay, what is it that they actually want? And you might be giving them what you know they need, but they're not ready to understand that they need that yet. And so you need to go back a step further or whatever. So I learned this from copyhackers as well. I said this in the last podcast episode, but they're a great resource. They always say it goes offer.
00:16:25
Speaker
list and then copy. So your offer is at the core that needs to be dialed in. Then your list of people, that's who it's for. Whoever you're talking to about the offer needs to actually want the offer. And then your copy can really shine if those two things are in line. But if you're just writing copy and you don't really know who it's for and you're not sure that the offer works, then the copy is not going to fix everything.
00:16:53
Speaker
So copy really just magnifies results. It doesn't necessarily like shift results if the offer isn't dialed in yet.
00:17:02
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's all great advice and I think another reason why there's no harm in starting small and really just kind of opening this up to a group of people that you think might benefit from it and getting feedback and understanding whether it's helpful instead of going the route where you put all this effort into a big launch, having never tested things along the way for sure.
Leveraging Social Proof
00:17:28
Speaker
So that's where we start. Offer who is it for.
00:17:32
Speaker
What are the different elements that we should include on the sales page? I call it the three C's. There are like three core elements on a sales page that are kind of like sections that you can check yourself and make sure you have. The first one is the capture. The second one is the core and the third one is the close. So capture is where you are getting attention and you're qualifying those people. You're saying this is for you if
00:18:01
Speaker
you want this outcome, if you're facing this problem or whatever, the core is talking about your offer. It's building in what is the outcome of that offer specifically, how is that going to be delivered through like explaining the modules and the features and the benefits attached to those features. That's what people typically think of as a sales page, but that's really just one section of the sales page is explaining what the offer actually is.
00:18:31
Speaker
And then the close is where you actually ask them to make a decision. So I think this is one that people forget a lot of times is that we have to help them weigh where they are now and where they want to be and show them that the stakes are high enough that they need to make this decision to go where they want to be. So a lot of times we'll just put out our core, our explanation of our course or offer or whatever.
00:18:59
Speaker
and then just expect them to arrive at that decision themselves. But if you help guide them and you say like, Hey, here's where you are right now. And here's where you want to be. This is what it's going to take to get there. Are you ready to do that? Basically, then that is going to lead them into a decision. It doesn't necessarily lead them into a yes, but we don't want somebody leaving our sales page thinking,
00:19:24
Speaker
Oh, I'll decide later or I'll think about it because that essentially is a no. And so that capture core close is really the flow that you want your sales page to go in. And that can show up in a lot of different ways. And there are a lot of different like methods to get all of those sections on the page, but that's really the general flow of what you want it to look like.
00:19:50
Speaker
Yeah, I think, you know, too with clothes, not only do we not ask for the sale sometimes, which is, you know, we get all the way to the end and it's like, well, what's next? But I also find it effective to kind of paint what does it look like if you don't invest in this offer? You know, what does that look like? Not just, hey, this is the outcome you could have, or if you don't, like, what does that look like for you?
00:20:12
Speaker
What would you say are some of the other most important pieces to have? And it doesn't have to be comprehensive. Obviously, there's a lot that falls into, let's say, the core piece, for instance. What are some more specific pieces that you would find in the core piece? Just in general, meaningful headlines are really important. So the headline is the big piece of text that when people are skimming, they read those. A lot of times, I find that people use those headline
00:20:40
Speaker
pieces of real estate just as like placeholders. So it's like the modules or the course or just the name of the course or something like that. And instead you can use those headlines as places to really frame what you want them to think about those things or frame an outcome that they want or frame like this is going to solve this problem kind of thing instead of just
00:21:08
Speaker
having those placeholders in there. It's the same with website copy. You don't want to just label above your about me section about me because it's like a waste of space. Yeah. It's like, we know, we know it's about you. Exactly.
Adapting to Different Buying Styles
00:21:20
Speaker
And so use that to your advantage for sure. For, I'm sure you know this because we've written some pages for you guys, but we never just put FAQs above the FAQs. We always frame the FAQs as a positive thing.
00:21:36
Speaker
because we know that we want people to have questions and we want them to get their questions answered and smart people ask questions. And so we want to frame that as a positive thing with that headline or like make them feel like they're not alone by saying other people have had these questions too or something like that. So that's just one example of how you could use that space to seed something in their brain instead of just them like checking something off like, oh, okay, these are the FAQs kind of thing.
00:22:06
Speaker
And then also frequent calls to action, even in the core section. So we like to do program name or product name outcome call to action because some people know as soon as they see that outcome that they want that and then go more in depth into the modules, which is.
00:22:26
Speaker
really a different buying style. It's more of a logical slow paced sort of buyer who wants to read what's in every single module and then put a call to action after that. And so make sure that you're not leaving people too long with too many sections without a chance to take action. Yeah. Awesome. How important would you say social proof is in a sales page? How much social proof should someone include? It's very important. I think it's less about how much and more about
00:22:54
Speaker
what pieces you're selecting because you really want your social proof to back up the claims that you're making. So if you say, this is going to help you do XYZ faster, then you want to follow that up with a testimonial of some, somebody saying, I did this so fast or whatever. And so that really just answers the question like, okay, you say that, but like who says so besides you because I don't really believe you kind of thing.
00:23:22
Speaker
So I think sometimes people just take their spreadsheet of testimonials and just plop them all in there, but it will serve you a lot better to think through like, okay, what is this supporting and where can this strategically go on the sales page? So I think that's important. I also like to use different types of social proof. So whether that is.
00:23:45
Speaker
using a more in-depth kind of case study, a really quick hit kind of quote, and then maybe some like screenshots from social media or from your Facebook group or whatever. Those are all kind of different levels of proof that show different types of things like results, or they just show that it's actually true because you screenshotted it or whatever. So I think having that variance in there helps a lot.
00:24:11
Speaker
Yeah, I would agree with that and I think that depending on what you're selling, you really want to think through the kind of social proof that you want. This doesn't apply specifically to sales pages necessarily, but for a till agency, because we're charging a premium for ad management, people want to see case studies. They want to understand, okay, tell us about the businesses that you've worked with and have gotten results for and how did you do that versus if I'm just purchasing a course and maybe it's like $99 or something like that, I don't need a full
00:24:41
Speaker
I don't necessarily need a full case study, but if I see a ton of screenshots from like a Facebook group of people being like, yes, this is awesome and I did X and this is what happened, I think that kind of stuff goes a long way for me. So I think that's great advice. And one thing I'd say about testimonials too, just in general is like really highlighting, like you said, like, hey, you make this statement and then you want to highlight the part of the testimonial that says, and I got this result.
00:25:09
Speaker
I see a lot on websites in general too, certainly sales pages, just testimonials that are like three paragraphs along. That's great. It's obviously meaningful to that person, but I can't remember even when I'm buying something, taking the time to read something that's long. Yeah. You can do it a couple of different ways or both. You could pull it out as a headline for that testimonial.
00:25:32
Speaker
or you could like bold it or highlight it inside of the testimonial, I think doing both would be great. But having that headline pulled out is basically telling you like, hey, here's social proof. This is what I want you to take away from this social proof. Like this is what matters in here. Instead of expecting them to sift through and figure that out, I think that is super important for sure. Yeah. So as far as any other aspects that we didn't talk about of a high converting sales pages,
00:26:02
Speaker
Well, the buying styles thing is important to understand. So there are typically like four buying styles and some people name them in colors. Some people name them in like fancy names. I just call them what they are.
Applying Sales Techniques to Service Pages
00:26:19
Speaker
So there's slow and emotional, which is humanistic.
00:26:23
Speaker
There's slow and logical, which is methodical. There's fast and logical, which is competitive. And then there's fast and emotional, which is spontaneous. So you have some people who are going to prioritize different types of proof and different types of information in order to make their decision. Would you say you're more emotional or logical in your decision making?
00:26:47
Speaker
That's a good question. I'm definitely slow. Okay. Interesting. I wouldn't guess that. Yes. Yes. You're slow. Yeah. I'm definitely slow. I want to compare things and I want to feel like I'm buying, like whatever I'm buying, you know, I want to feel like, yes, I'm going to get my money's worth out of this thing, whether it's inexpensive or expensive. Slow and logical. You're not like slow and you're like,
00:27:11
Speaker
how do these people feel whenever they, like that's not what you're looking for. No, no. Yeah. So I would say slow and logical probably. Yeah. That's exactly how my husband is. And I am fast and emotional. And so anytime where we're deciding on something together, I'm like, but did you see like,
00:27:30
Speaker
The smiles on their faces in that picture. That's all we need. Like, come on. And he's like, how long is it going to take to ship here? And is that going to get here in time? And I'm like, who cares? It's on the way. I already bought it. But I think is fast and fast and logical. And so my slowness in terms of it's very frustrating to her. She's like, just buy it. Just buy. No, I got to figure out. I got to make sure that this version of it is the is the better version. So.
00:27:57
Speaker
Yeah. Should we wait nine months for the new version? But yeah, so I, for slow and emotional, you want more like case studies, human faces on the sales page is really important for slow and emotional and emotional in general. You want more testimonials that are talking about how it made people feel. So if it gave them more confidence, if it gave them more clarity, if it made them feel like they were on top of the world, I don't know, whatever.
00:28:27
Speaker
And then slow and logical, they want case studies with specific outcomes. They want logical outcomes. So something that seems like it makes sense if you put X, Y, and Z together. They want features and details and modules, all of that kind of stuff. For the fast and logical, that's competitive. They want to know that you can get 10X the clients with half the amount of hours. Like that statistic is like done.
00:28:56
Speaker
we're doing it kind of thing. Statistics are really helpful. And also like better than our best language can really get them because like, okay, we're gonna be better than everybody else if we get this thing. And then spontaneous, fast and emotional, you wanna paint a vivid picture of the problem and what's possible at the very beginning and they will be sold right away. And if you can put a picture with that, then that's gonna be even more helpful. So knowing those buying styles
00:29:26
Speaker
is really important on your sales page because typically we write for our own buying style and only our own buying style. And so it's hard when you, I mean, I'm fast and emotional and I'm a copywriter. So I just want to say like, this is going to change your life. That's all you need, right? Yeah. But I have to think through. What do you mean? What do you mean you need more information? Exactly.
00:29:54
Speaker
No, that's super helpful. I'm gonna have to dig into that a little bit more for sure. So for people who are listening who are like, okay, this is all great. I'm not really, I'm not selling something that needs a sales page necessarily, you know, service-based business or, you know, whatnot. What do you think are the key things that people who are service-based businesses who have services pages on their websites can learn from an effective sales page? Yes, I love this topic because this is exactly how I teach the services page inside of the website bundle of pamphlets.
00:30:23
Speaker
that basically we need to treat our services pages more like sales pages. And I think the thing that they're typically missing is usually it's just kind of a bullet point brain dump of like all the features of our services, but really we need to take the time to build the problem and then deliver the solution on a silver platter as the solution to that problem that they've already kind of invested in and said like, Hey, yes, I have this problem.
00:30:53
Speaker
That is one thing just like from a mindset standpoint, that top section should take some time to build the problem and explain your solution. And then speaking to one person, I think that this is something that people really struggle with on their services pages. And a lot of people ask me like, how do I know if I need multiple service pages or whatever? And I always tell my students that if your ideal clients, if you have multiple of them, if they have,
00:31:23
Speaker
the same values, similar values in terms of what they want in life, what they're trying to achieve, what they're trying to overcome, then you can have those on the same website. But if you have different delivery of those values, so whether you're a photographer and you have seniors who want to look authentic in their photos and families who want to look authentic in their photos,
00:31:48
Speaker
If there's different delivery of that through a senior session or a family session, have those on different pages, but they can go on the same website. But if you find that your ideal clients have totally different values or want different outcomes, and it's a different deliverable delivery method, then you might want to put them on different websites. So for example, with Davey and Krista, you might have some overlap in values of what people at Till want.
00:32:17
Speaker
Businesses want to succeed. Davy and Krista, businesses want to succeed. But there are different values in terms of what they want the outcome to be. So Davy and Krista, people are wanting to get their website up and running so that it's working for their business until people are wanting to amplify, multiply what they already have going on. And so those are really different, really different delivery. They're also different businesses.
00:32:46
Speaker
You want them on different websites kind of thing. So I think taking a hard look at am I trying to pack too much into one services page because that's going to hurt you more than it's going to help you.
00:32:57
Speaker
Yeah, great advice and all things that we tell people too, we'll talk to people who are like, well, I have this dog photography, but then I also shoot high-end family portraits. And it's like, I hate to tell them, like, oh, well, you probably need different websites for that because it's like managing, you're managing essentially two different businesses and brands at that point. But at the end of the day, somebody who comes and all of a sudden sees like this,
00:33:23
Speaker
dog photography is just going to be, pet photography is just going to be different than a high end luxury family portrait. So you don't want one diminishing the other for sure. So I think that's great. I also, as far as when it goes to features and deliverables and things like that, I think you're spot on that.
00:33:42
Speaker
I would say in a lot of cases, you might not even want that on the services page itself, you know, and it really be a buildup of, you know, like the things that you were talking about. And that's something like the specific collections, at least, you know, back when we were shooting weddings, for instance.
00:33:57
Speaker
We always delivered that once they inquired. So it's inquire for the specifics, but here's the experience that you're getting if you decide to work with us. I'm sure there's different cases though where it makes a lot of sense to include deliverables on the services page. I don't want to say hard and fast rule like never, but I think getting people to take that next step, right? Yeah. I also think that having those deliverables on the services pages invites
00:34:27
Speaker
price shopping and so like if you like I don't know what the heck it means in a brand to have like a secondary logo mock-up
00:34:40
Speaker
Design half design or something. I don't know like there are all of these random Jargon things that people put that it's like you're getting this and I'm like I have no idea what that means But then if I'm looking at one designers website and another designers, I'm like, okay. Well, this one gives me two Logo options and this one only gives me one. Yeah. Well, then that's more so that's like all that people have to go off of whereas the one logo might be a
00:35:09
Speaker
a better strategized logo that's gonna serve you better instead of having two mediocre options or whatever. So I think that just invites stuff that we don't want.
00:35:19
Speaker
Yeah, deciding on things that don't matter for sure, like, oh, well, this designer offers three rounds of revisions, and that designer only offers four and, you know, and as if that's what you like, as a like, that shouldn't be the decision maker, you know, do they need four revisions? Yeah, maybe that's not great. I also I said this analogy once. I don't know if it's a great analogy, but
00:35:43
Speaker
sometimes people treat services pages as like a stranger dropping a puppy in your lap. So a stranger comes, they drop a puppy in your lap and you're like, whose puppy is this? Is this my puppy now? Do they have rabies? Do I need to eat them? Like what exactly is going on? And so if you don't give somebody context to say like, Hey, this is a gift to you, then they don't know it's a gift. They might see it as a problem. So to me,
00:36:12
Speaker
if a wedding photographer says I'm gonna get 396 photos in my thing, my thought is how am I gonna go through all of those photos and choose the ones that I actually like and wanna display in my home? That feels like a headache to me, whereas the photographer is seeing it as a gift. And so we have to give people that context to say, hey, this is your puppy, I bought it for you, I have food in my trunk, this is all for you kind of thing, whereas
00:36:42
Speaker
Otherwise, it just causes a panic attack sort of thing. Yeah, this is the backstory of the puppy. Yes. They've never had any issues. They have all their shots. Yeah. But they've never had a loving home and you'd be saving them. So sad.
00:37:00
Speaker
Yeah, no, I like it.
Launch of Jess Jordana's Promptlet
00:37:02
Speaker
I like the analogy. Well, Jess, I really appreciate you taking the time this morning, not to record just one episode, but to record more than one episode. And I'm really excited for people to listen to this one in particular. As always, you can access the resources that we mentioned in the episode in the show notes. And I think that about the time that this episode has gone live, so if you're listening, there's a good chance that Jess has already launched her sales page promptly. If not, check the show notes so that you can get on the wait list.
00:37:30
Speaker
And I would say that I like to write, you know, I think we talked about this in the last episode, you know, my blog posts are normally around 2,500 words, all right, so they're not short. But the worst part is starting with nothing, you know?
00:37:45
Speaker
That is the worst part. So you don't have to start from nothing. There are great resources like Jess's promptlets where you have at least a framework for getting started. And I'd say that's a pretty foolproof way to get started. And if they're anything like her website templates, they're going to be helpful. They're going to be great. So Jess, thank you so much for joining us this morning. Yeah, thanks for having me. This was fun.
00:38:11
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to the Brands That Book Show. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing and leaving a review in iTunes. For show notes and other resources, head on over to dvandchrista.com.