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S2 E14: We can fix the DCEU!!!
40 Plays5 years ago
So, most of this episode has been devoted to Ben's cunning plan to fix the DC movies and bring them some much needed love, and we've gotta say, he's got a cracker of a plan! Now we just need some movie execs to hear the podcast and steal the ideas...honestly, we'd be okay if you do, just make some good movies!!!! We also cover the Hellboy reboot, Alita: Battle Angel and a couple of other smaller things at the end to round us out.
Beers reviewed this episode:
1) Hawkers Beer (w Liberty Brewing) - Into the Lime Light - Sour - 4.5% 2) Nine Fingers Brew - Born in the US Ale - American Pale - 5% 3) Three Weavers Brewing - The Messenger - IPA - 7.3% 4) Hop Nation Brewing Co - Red Rabbit - Sour - 6% 5) Hop Nation Brewing Co - DREAMFEED - NEIPA - 6.5% 6) Hop Nation Brewing Co - The Kalash - Russian Imp. Stout - 10.2%
Thanks as always to Justin Gonzales for the amazing metal intro-outro. And of course our fans, we love you guys!
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Transcript
Introductions & Banter
00:00:17
Speaker
Pixels and Pints. So welcome to the next episode of Pixels and Pints. I'm here with Pete. Hi. You almost forgot a name there. And Dan. Yeah, hello. And I'm Ben. And your favorite uninformed idiots are going to talk about bullshit. Yeah, pretty much. For a couple of hours. Kind of put you on the spot a little bit there. That's good.
00:00:41
Speaker
It's better than Chris's intros and he's done like 40 episodes or something. There you go. I do have a podcast at home. So there you go.
Beers & Plans
00:00:49
Speaker
Pretty. I didn't even realize when I bought this beer, I didn't even realize it was hawkers and Liberty brewing. I just picked it up.
00:00:56
Speaker
Yeah, nice. You needed a kettle sour, so I got... I need all the sours. Yeah. Nice. I'm just a sour person. I'll pour this one first. Anyway. Liberty Brewing and Hawkers into the Limelight. L-I-M-E, light. You got a kettle sour. It's a collaboration from this year. Chateau du Tasmania. Chateau. I'll pour it while you guys decide on what we're talking about first.
Fixing the DCEU
00:01:20
Speaker
Well, I think we're going to spend a good deal of this episode talking about how to fix DCEU, aren't we? We can. There's at least an hour's worth of content. Do we want to get into that straight away? Why not? Yeah. All right. Let's not fuck around. All right. And if you need me to stall while you get out your 37 inch fucking iPad. Yeah, this is the pro, mate.
00:01:45
Speaker
So Chris now says he's not getting here until 9pm. I think we'll be drunk and or finished by that stage, but that's right. He said he's not going to come. Actually, while you do it, I'll tell a story I was about to tell about my American Phoenix because we were we were so
Travel Adventures
00:02:00
Speaker
Ben still Ben seems to be a little bit
00:02:03
Speaker
I'm ready. I'm ready to go, but tell you a story. No, no. Ben, Ben seems to be a little bit dyslexic with dry July because we're in August and he's still not drinking. Although Dan, he asked for a small pour and Dan's a small pour in that sort of glass. Um, yeah. So Ben's not really drinking and, um, yeah, he's, his excuse was, what was your excuse? You're about to go away. I'm going away in two weeks to where I'm going to Europe and America. Okay. Europe's a continent.
00:02:32
Speaker
I'm going on a cruise through Greece and Italy. Okay. And then- I didn't know they sank that. Carry on. They're good. Through Greece and Italy. Around Greece and Italy. Well, the Greek islands, I mean, yeah. And then on the way back, we're going back through California to go to- That's a strange mix.
00:02:52
Speaker
Well, my wife's from San Diego. Okay. So we're going to see her family because I haven't seen them for a while and I'm not going to pass up the opportunity to go to Disneyland and go to Star Wars world.
00:03:04
Speaker
Yeah, nice. Have you got a book or is it just, you know, apparently you don't have to book anymore. You had to book like July and August, but now it should be okay. Okay. And we're planning on going on a weekday anyway. So it shouldn't
Disneyland Dilemmas
00:03:18
Speaker
be super busy. What was this bullshit about, uh, planning on banning or thinking about banning adultless or childrenless? That was just some random mother that just went ape shit.
00:03:29
Speaker
Because someone was filling the queue for her 11 overprivileged white children. Someone went on a rant that people with no kids shouldn't be allowed to go to Disneyland, which is...
00:03:37
Speaker
Go fuck yourself. Where do you, where does she think all the money comes from? That's exactly it. Yeah. I mean the average age of a comic book reader or a moviegoer or a fucking video gamer these days is 30. So I, yeah. Yeah. So it kind of goes back to what you were saying the other day about that Star Wars B that was in, was in a, it was in a, it was actually Tom, but yeah, we've, we've all talked about it. It was in a bottle. Oh, and.
00:04:02
Speaker
Some guy brings his kid into a bottle-o and then complains about a Star Wars themed beer being inappropriately targeted at children. How about you get your fucking child out of the adult only section? It's like walking into the video store, taking your toddler into the porno section and complaining that there's titties. Like what happened?
00:04:21
Speaker
Since when have we used legislation to replace common sense? We are starting to sound like the Joe Rogan show, but all there was a one of those parody pawns and he wants to watch it because it's superhero. That was actually a porno in the video store. I worked in when I was a kid growing up. Oh God, that was going back a while then. Along with the penetrator to judgment day.
00:04:44
Speaker
Um, there's, there's so many more saving Ryan's privates. Yeah. Okay. That's a pretty easy one. So actually introduced the beer, cause I was going to, I'll tell you the story. So that was, that was the into the limelight kettle sour from hawkers and Liberty brewing. It has, uh, additions of Kiwi fruit and kefir lime leaf, kefir, kefir, kefir lime leaves and finger limes. Yeah. And finger limes.
00:05:10
Speaker
Finger limes. True trans Tasman experience. Who in Tasmania fingers the limes before they put in the beer? Finger limes. You've never had a finger lime before. I don't think I have. The long thin limes. It looks like a cucumber a little bit. Yeah. Like a mini cucumber. Okay. I've got to say, I'm not a fan of the beer.
00:05:26
Speaker
Uh, it's not as sour as what I thought it would be and it needs a bit more carb, but it's okay. It's extremely undercarved. It's basically flat. Um, I'm okay with the fact that it's the color of urine because it's beer, but when it's under carbonated, it kind of really does start to resemble urine. Um, it's not sour enough and I don't get any hop character out of it. It's a sour, so it doesn't necessarily have to have any hop character whatsoever.
00:05:53
Speaker
I'm not getting much of any, I'm not getting much of any hops in at all, but I'm not getting fruit. I'm not getting. There's, there is some of that citrusy kiwi fruit character there. It's fairly, it's fairly subdued. I agree. I don't think it's carbonated enough and I don't think it's anywhere near sour enough, but you get that with some kettle sours too. They just don't go. And we do, we do take the creme de la creme of fucking beers too. So it's kind of hard. We're, we're pretty harsh critics.
00:06:20
Speaker
I've got a hop nation sour for you later. So we'll compare the two. It is a bit watery without that carb too. Yeah. Yeah. I just find it's watery. That's perfect. It's perfect. It's more whiny than anything else. I feel like whining quite a lot about it. I was going to say, can you hear it whining? Yeah.
00:06:38
Speaker
That was the beer warning. So my story, so when I was in the US
DC Films Critique
00:06:43
Speaker
in Washington, so I go once a year for what? We're there for a conference with a bunch of, so I'm in IT. We go there with a bunch of lawyers because it's all the legal IT global conference thing where all the CIOs get together and get on the piss and do interesting training. They all tell each other about how great their IT systems are in their law firms. They're blowing smoke.
00:07:06
Speaker
Yeah, and because we're there to talk to our customers from Australia, we don't even go to the sessions. It's pointless because it's them talking about their businesses and it's not really relevant to us. So we just drink. But last year we were sponsoring an event and it was kickoff night. So it's the first night we got there. We'd just gotten to Washington. I think it was the day after we got to Washington. We were supposed to go to a very fancy rooftop bar in DC.
00:07:35
Speaker
overlooking the White House. The chopper with Trump actually landed on the grass at the White House while we were there with all the snipers on the roof. It was a great spectacle. And I was drinking gin and tonics, as I always do when I'm not drinking beer. And didn't realize that they free pour. And because someone had tipped the barman quite a lot of money to look after our private group, because they sectioned off half of the rooftop bar, and it's a fancy bar.
00:08:04
Speaker
The idea was go upstairs, spend an hour drinking on the rooftop, go all the way to the underground basement thing with a beer garden outside, do a 20 minute speech, which is why everyone was there because it was sponsored by one of the big IT companies. So we had a rep, a very smart rep, a global guy come in to do a little speech for 20 minutes. And then we go upstairs to a three course meal in the main dining hall.
00:08:30
Speaker
So I got on the sauce and I didn't realize quite how hard I'd hit it because again, free pouring, gin and tonic takes a little while to kick in. I was... Don't drink spirits. I was seven deep by the time we left, went downstairs. We're in a basement, it's quite stuffy and hot. I start sweating. I'm like, I need to go to the bathroom. I'm not feeling too great. Bathrooms integrated into the edge of the large auditorium kind of
00:08:56
Speaker
Sorry, when I say large, it's probably the size of my fucking living room that you're sitting in at the moment. It wasn't a big space with a little bathroom in the side. And I saw that porcelain and that was the end of me. I couldn't see straight. And mind you, coming down in the elevator, I was fine. Like I was pissed, but I was fine.
00:09:15
Speaker
By the time I got to the underground, I could not see straight. There was three of everything. I spent the entire 20 minutes of the speech that we sponsored vomiting in the bathroom. People could hear it while they were listening to the 20 minute speech. Nice.
00:09:33
Speaker
And then one of my mates kind of dragged me, harangued me out into the beer garden and tipped one of the waiters 20 bucks to just let me, just bring me water until I'm sober enough to get in a cab without painting the fucking windows.
00:09:49
Speaker
About half an hour, 45 minutes later, he came down to check on me. They'd gotten through the, the entree and main course. I'd saved it up enough that I got back up, went upstairs, sat down and had dessert and had a very serious conversation with probably one of the straightest CIOs in the room. And then we got on the source afterwards. Nice. So they've, they called me the Phoenix for a couple of months after I got back because I rose from the fucking ashes and that's, that's my US story. So it was your day the next day.
00:10:19
Speaker
It was actually pretty good. I have noticed whenever I travel, it is the jet lag that hits me with the booze because I could have six or seven gin and tonics in Australia. Even if you were free pouring, I'd be smashed as fuck, but I probably wouldn't be faced down to the porcelain and I'd be, I'd be all right. I'd survive it. But over there, it's, it's just any, anywhere I go internationally, we're not, when I'm jet lagged, if I start drinking, it just hits me. It's a whole bunch of things combined, probably not eating properly. Yeah.
00:10:47
Speaker
So I'm, I'm back in the US next week and I'll be laying off the GMTs. Although we'll be in Miami, so you're going to add fucking heat. Heat, humidity. Yeah. In August in Miami, or maybe superhuman. We're only in Miami for two or three days. And then we're down to Florida for, um, the actual conference, which is inside Disney world. Oh, awesome. I've never been to any of the Disney things. So it should be interesting.
00:11:14
Speaker
Anyway, tell us about something that's actually relevant. I did tie an in right at the end with the Disney World Reference. I mean, they own most of the shit we're watching. So I think we can all agree that the DC movies sucked monkey balls. I was just going to say they probably haven't lived up to
00:11:32
Speaker
No, they sucked monkey balls. Expectations. Well, I rewatched Batman versus Superman not last night, the night before to in preparation for this. Yep. So I quite like that movie. I don't hate it. The only thing I really like about it is Affleck.
00:11:50
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. The only ones I truly hated were Justice League. That was just a tragically bad movie. Yeah, agreed. And Suicide Squad. Agreed. They're the only two I legitimately fucking hate. The rest, they're not great. They're not what I expected or wanted. They didn't live up to the old school Superman movies, all the feelings you get when you think about them when you're in the kid growing up watching that shit.
00:12:16
Speaker
Superman came on screen, Christopher Reeves came on screen and used to get fucking your hair stilled up on the back of your neck. It was a moment. And even Superman returns with fucking bloodshot eyed dude. Brandon Ralph. Yeah, I could live with that too. He kind of lived up to it at the time.
00:12:34
Speaker
The Weekly Planet guys, we're tangenting already and you have barely gotten halfway through what you... This is how we end up in three hours of 10 minutes of content. The Weekly Planet guys were saying this DC... Crossover event? The crossover event. Are you talking about the crisis on Infinite Earth? Yeah, the Kingdom Come. They've cast... Linda Carter is apparently playing Old Wonder Woman. Oh really? So today they announced officially Kevin Conroy is playing Batman.
00:13:02
Speaker
Oh really? Wow. Oh wow. Live action Batman. Live action Batman. Yeah. Which will be interesting. Batman. Yeah. Return of the Dark Knight.
00:13:11
Speaker
I wonder why they're doing that, because all the other crossovers, they've basically, they've stolen the concept from comic arcs, not comic books, but the, yes, comic books, but the main arc stories. Is this just one big last hurrah, you reckon? Yes, it absolutely is, because most of them have been cancelled. Arrow's gone. I think Flash is continuing for at least another season.
00:13:35
Speaker
Supergirl's been on its last legs for a while, ever since they put the legs in stockings. It's just been, yeah, kind of stretching the metaphor. And Legends of Tomorrow has never been great. It's never been popular. I will watch this kingdom come. I will, or whatever they're going to call it, cross the earths.
00:13:53
Speaker
They perverted Flashpoint, but they did a decent enough job that you could watch it. It was interesting. It wasn't a real Flashpoint. It didn't have all of the Flashpoint stuff in it that you needed to make it a Flashpoint. Like Bruce's dad didn't come in. What's his name, Wayne? Thomas. Thank you.
00:14:10
Speaker
That would have been sick. I want to see a live action Thomas Wayne with the red fucking eyes and the fucked up Batman outfit. The next Arkham game needs to be Thomas Wayne. It needs to be a Flashpoint game. That would be cool. Well, they had the guns. I don't know if you played any of the DLC for Arkham Knight. Oh, you haven't even played Arkham Knight. Nope. I have, yeah. Yeah, Pete hasn't though. Um, cause he's a useless prick when it comes to things like that. Um, that's all right. Pleasure. Uh,
00:14:38
Speaker
They had the gun combat down for Red Hood, so they could quite easily do a Thomas Wayne Flashpoint Batman. Anyway, we detract.
00:14:53
Speaker
The thing with DC is they should be shitting all over Marvel with their character. The characters that they have are stronger. They're strong. They're icon. It's not that they're stronger. They are icons. You've got your Superman. Superman, I actually think is a tough sell. I think he's a hard character to adapt. Man of Steel. I don't think you're going to get much better than that.
00:15:14
Speaker
He is more nuanced than most people recognize from the old Christopher Reeve or any of the current stuff. You're right. So he's hard, but I wouldn't change too much about the DC movies. What I would get rid of would be the crossover stuff. So I'd get rid of Batman vs Superman, I'd get rid of Justice League and I'd get rid of Suicide Squad. All the rest I'm happy to keep.
00:15:40
Speaker
You leave, you leave Wonder Woman. You leave. I think Al Gadot is a good Wonder Woman. Aquaman, I don't hate him. And Henry Cavill. Yeah, he can stay too. Reluctantly. Yeah. It's because you can't think of anyone better. You know what? Pretty much. As much as... He looks the part. He definitely looks the part.
00:16:01
Speaker
And I actually think the wooden acting, doesn't this suit Superman as a character? Yeah. If he played it right, he could have used his lack of acting skills. I don't think he has like acting skills. I don't think he has like acting skills. Just what he got fed. What else has he been in to judge by? He was really good in man from uncle. He was really good in man from uncle. I've got to say, he's really charismatic. And I liked him in- Fallout? Fallout.
00:16:29
Speaker
Like he is just a machine in that, but he played the part well. Yes, but it's like saying Arnold Schwarzenegger was a great actor for Terminator. He's not a great actor for Terminator. He's a great actor for Kindergarten Cop. But what I'm saying is he played a really wooden character in Fallout and we'll never know whether or not that was the direction or just the actor.
00:16:55
Speaker
Yeah. My point for Superman is he could have used that or they could have, the director could have used that to portray and they almost did as an aloof, not holier than thou, but apart from mankind. Yeah, definitely in the BVS movies, they started going down that route where he was kind of a god figure to some people.
00:17:17
Speaker
Yeah, but they didn't they didn't do enough with it to justify. I mean, you're talking about the statue. Yeah. Yeah. They didn't. And that was a direct rip from the comics, too. This went back to Man of Steel, too. I mean, they do they do the whole comparison to Christ many times in Man of Steel. But it was overplayed. It was hugely overplayed. I mean, they did not he did not need not need not did not need to put in that scene where he falls out of the Kryptonian ship into the crucifix.
00:17:47
Speaker
Like the crucifix shape over the planet. Like you didn't, why fucking do it? We get it. You know, we get it without you jamming that shit down our throat. People seem as the Messiah. Yeah. He's a miracle. Yeah, whatever. But I think, yeah, anyway, carry on. And I like that movie too, by the way. Man of Steel. Yeah. I don't hate it. It has grown on me. When it first came out, I didn't like it at all. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I fucking walked out with a Woody. I think the... After a few times, it has grown on me.
00:18:13
Speaker
I think the first, the woody girl, maybe. Yeah, fair enough. The first 10 minutes of Batman versus Superman should be the post credit for man of steel with Bruce Wayne, that, that whole section there of Bruce Wayne go driving through metropolis with the man of steel action, destroying all the buildings behind him and him running into danger and everybody else running out of danger that that should have been the post credit scene. And that would have got, that would have got everybody hyped for,
00:18:44
Speaker
Batman V Superman. Yeah. And they would have known that was the route that they were going. But you know why they didn't do that? No Kevin Feige. Because DC doesn't have a fucking clue what they're doing. Yeah. I know that they don't understand their characters. They wouldn't have even known that BVS was coming. No, no, no. That's exactly right. They were waiting to see whether or not the movie was going to be another flop like Suicide Squad or if it was going to do okay. And I think we've said that. It was first Man of Steel. Yeah. Man of Steel was the first one.
00:19:13
Speaker
Oh, it was before. It was before Suicide Squad. Batman vs Superman was before Suicide Squad. Right. But we've said almost every episode for the last two or three that what DC really lacks is not characters, it's not storylines, it's not actors. It's someone in the helm. It's Kevin Feige. They need someone with a fucking plan and the balls to execute. Speaking of that. Ben's got the balls. Here's my plan.
00:19:41
Speaker
The new Terminator movie that's coming out, they have, James Cameron has basically said, everything that happened after Terminator 2 doesn't exist. And I want to do something similar with the DC universe. So for me, Batman versus Superman, Justice League and Suicide Squad don't exist. Cool. Man of Steel exists, Aquaman exists, Wonder Woman exists and Shazam exists. Okay.
00:20:09
Speaker
I don't know how you managed to fit Shazam in there, but all right. Captain Marvel. It was well received. It was terrible. It was fucking terrible. The only reason that Shazam has something going on. It was Power Rangers set in a DC universe. Let's face it.
00:20:25
Speaker
I agree. The one thing Shazam has going for it is The Rock. Sure. Coming up, The Rock is going to be in those films. Yeah, but and I think we discussed it before you joined us. I cannot see, what's his name? Fucking, I'm really bad with names tonight. Zach Levi. Thank you. Zach Levi. Chuck.
00:20:46
Speaker
I cannot see him. See, I never watched any of his work before Shazam, which is why he's such a forgettable name. I cannot see him playing up against The Rock. I think The Rock is too strong a character to share the screen with.
00:21:03
Speaker
The man's a mountain. Yeah. I don't even mean physically imposing. I mean, he, he's, he's a legitimately decent actor. He is. Yeah. I thoroughly enjoyed him in the movie with Jack Black that I can't fucking, uh, Jumanji. Well, Jumanji was a great movie. I still haven't seen that. That's a fantastic. Do not leave my house without borrowing it. Cause it is legitimately. It's not me taking it now. I'm like international in three days time. It's on my shelf for yours. It's kind of not relevant.
00:21:30
Speaker
It is a great film that you should watch. Yeah. I love my arse off. Anyway, carry on. So one of the things that Marvel did really well was before they even got to Avengers, they introduced everyone first. And I think DC need to do something similar. It's not, it's not
00:21:48
Speaker
You know, admitting defeat by copying this tried and true, you know. But it's not even Marvel. It's not painted in Marvel. It's storytelling. I know, but there is that. There's always going to be those people that say, oh, you're just copying Marvel.
00:22:06
Speaker
But yeah, but fuck those guys. I agree with you. I agree with you. Fuck those guys. The irony is there's only a few ways to introduce characters in storytelling. You've either got the mentor story, which is, you know, the Luke Skywalker with Obi-Wan Kenobi, you know, the coming of age hero emerges storyline. You've got throw your, throw your audience into the deep end in terms of action. But once you get through that initial hook and you get them in, in the movie, you pull back and start to introduce the characters.
00:22:36
Speaker
Yep. Or you do a interesting movie, not a fucking origin story because what we don't want in what you're saying is seven standalone origin story movies. Well, in saying that, we've already got four of them. They've already come out. Yeah, sure. But you don't want to do a cyborg fucking backstory movie. No, cyborg is not in my Justice League. Okay. The only other origin stories I want are Flash and Green Lantern.
00:23:07
Speaker
Flash gets hit by lightning. There's probably 500 introductory stories for Flash that'd be more interesting than the actual origin story for Flash. There's better storytelling mechanisms than
Beer Tasting
00:23:20
Speaker
the junk that we're fed for introducing characters.
00:23:24
Speaker
They didn't do an Aquaman. They didn't do an Aquaman origin story. It just was. So let's go. We got, we got Iron Man. We got First Avenger. We got Thor. How Hulk was already. You had four or five different runs at that, but yeah, carry on.
00:23:42
Speaker
before we got. Well, the ed were not in Hulk. He was, he was already Hulk. So we got, we got, we got black widow in Iron Man two. So she never obviously didn't get a solo. So you could, you could hook. I was in Thor. Okay. Okay. I wasn't in Thor.
00:23:58
Speaker
He was in, when Thor tries to get his hammer back and stick into the shield base. Oh yeah, he was too. Yeah, Jesus. But again, no origin story, no origin story, no origin story. Yeah, okay. So you go, I'm interjecting again. So you could go Superman, Batman, Aquaman, Wonder Woman. No, I don't want a Batman origin story. I was going off what we've already got. Superman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Shazam.
00:24:27
Speaker
you then fold Flash into, well, you know, you do a buddy cop with Flash and Green Lantern. Is that what you've got on one of those? You had buddy cop for one of them. That's in phase two. Okay, right here. Anyway, let's just shut the fuck up and let him at least get through phase one. You do have to do an origin story for Green Lantern though. It's too foreign. I'm happy for Flash to get introduced in Justice League. That's cool.
00:24:52
Speaker
So I'm not saying don't do standalone movies to bring these characters to introduce these characters as concepts into the universe. I'm saying do not spend that solo movie doing a fucking origin story. Yeah. Yeah. No more origin stories. He got bitten by a spider. That's a whole movie. No, it's fucking not. Let's do Spider-Man from here on out. Yep. Anyway. Yeah, fair enough.
00:25:13
Speaker
So once all those movies have come out, whether they're origin stories or whatever, there's the solo films. There's no, there's no crossovers yet. Then we get to Justice League. Justice League is basically Batman versus Superman, but done properly. Where the villain is Batman.
00:25:35
Speaker
And he has, he's been looking into all these super powered people that have turned up and we all know how paranoid Batman is and he decides he's going to take him down one by one. So you could, I'm thinking that it would be loosely based on Tara Babel.
00:25:57
Speaker
where Batman hunts down the other Justice League members and then eventually realizes that there's a bigger play here where Lex Luthor's involved and then the Justice League team, he eventually teams up with the Justice League to take down Lex.
00:26:14
Speaker
Yep. I, I disagreed with you on this the first time I was saying, I think you should do something like hush first, but I think, I think you probably, it would be an interesting way to do that character. And then if you did, if you did something like hush as a prequel to that, even in phase two, you could build on that. Why, why he got to this point after the fact. Yep. Yeah, I can say that you want some standalone.
00:26:39
Speaker
Yeah, but it's, it's, it's more of a, I think if you went that way too, if you did a, a planned prequel to lead in afterwards, to lead into why he, why he chose this path. And obviously that what Ben just described makes a much more interesting justice league movie with a lot of, a lot more conflict between. Dramatic conflict. Yeah.
00:27:01
Speaker
And I mean, people want to see the heroes fight. I mean, that's why Civil War was so popular and everything too. I mean, you know, they're going to beat the shit out of each other for a little while and they're going to be buddies after it. But again, like, like Marvel have done and like lots of stories before it have done, you've got a number of, of lead in solo stories that lead to a big crossover movie or series of movies. But then you go back to the solo movies.
00:27:25
Speaker
And so the hush prequel could be a phase two man standalone. That's where I think that's, you've got it in phase two there, don't you? It's in phase three actually. Phase two. So have we gotten through phase one? Yes. So phase one ends with Justice League. Well do you want to read them out without us interrupting? Phase two? No, phase one. So phase one is Man of Steel, Aquaman, Wonder Woman, Shazam, a Flash solo film, a Green Lantern solo film, and then Justice League.
00:27:56
Speaker
Yep. And they are your justice league, Shazam included? No. No. Not yet. Not yet. He's just a... Yeah, okay. Yeah, not yet. I think you probably agree with that one. You can't have two Superman characters in there so soon.
00:28:11
Speaker
Oh, that and it's just at the way that the movie played out, it's almost a bubble gum comic book movie and the rest are kind of gritty and real and fucked up and dark. Yeah, I have all kinds of problems with that Justice League film. It is by far the worst film of the DC universe for me.
00:28:29
Speaker
Just a bad film. It doesn't even have to be of the DC films. It's just a fucking horrific train wreck. Too many directions in one movie. You can tell that there's two different directors involved in that film. Yes. It's so obvious. And it wasn't even linear. There's not a point where you can say, okay, now the aesthetics change and the storylines change. It was interwoven clips of one director and the other. I think you've said this before, Dan, that
00:28:53
Speaker
The dark and gritty aesthetic that they've gone through, has gone forth throughout the entire DC Universe. Suicide Squad was dark and gritty. Fucking BVS, Man of Steel. They've all been dark and gritty. I think that was only appropriate for the Batman and his ilk movies. That's because DC took the wrong lessons from Nolan's trilogy.
00:29:17
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, you're absolutely right. They thought, oh, people like dark and gritty. Everything needs to be dark and gritty. Metropolis is shining and bright and the city represents hope the same as Superman did. And they did it again when Deadpool came out because they thought, oh, an R-rated movie did really well. Let's release a BVS cut that's R-rated. Yeah. I don't think I've actually seen the R-rated BVS cut.
00:29:46
Speaker
It's got some good extra little bits in it. Yeah. But it's not, I wouldn't watch it and go, geez, that's heavy. That's definitely R rated. Yeah. It's not R rated. It's not an R rated film. But again, they took the wrong lessons. Because there isn't a foggy driving the ship. Yes. There's not a guy that says, right, this is the movie I need you to make. And if you sign on as my director, this is the movie you're going to fucking make. Yes. Yeah, but
00:30:15
Speaker
Yeah. And I think they had it. Statistically, they can do whatever they fucking like within the space that I mean, you've got to you've got to imagine Foggie is setting some loose direction for these guys. It's a dark movie. It's a bright movie. It's. But that's why Marvel goes. If you look at a lot of their directors, they've come from television.
00:30:33
Speaker
Yeah. Where they're going to direct an episode of a TV show that has to fit in with the current season, but it can also do its own thing and they do it really well. In fact, you have, I think you've described it perfectly. If you look at it like the old, I haven't said it for like five or six episodes. So fuck you Dan. Fuck you. You have free reign for this.
00:30:53
Speaker
And I'm not going to talk about it at length, but if you look at what they used to do with, with, and they stopped with Dr. Who, they would have a overall arc written by the show runner. And then he would only be there for the first, last, and a couple of the middle episodes. And then he'd get other directors in for all the others. And he would say to them, do the movie you want to do, do the story you want to do get, you know, the screenwriter will hand you the fucking story anyway, but direct the movie, direct the show the way you want to. But at some point in the movie, I'm going to put a crack in the wall.
00:31:24
Speaker
Because that's the tie-in to the overall arc that this whole plot trajectory is on. That's what I would imagine Foggy's doing. Make your own fucking movie. It's a buddy cop movie or it's a whatever. Fill in the blanks. But this stuff has to happen. Yeah.
00:31:39
Speaker
It's not fucking hard. Yeah, I know. And I think what you've said there with your phase one, I think they do have the very bare bones there. There's not much they need to change. They just need to do it better. Even Justice League. I made my friend who's done our podcast.
00:32:03
Speaker
She had never watched a Marvel film and she's never watched a DC. So we decided to introduce her to Justice League and that was the first DC film she watched. It's pretty sick of you. Well, wait for it. Yeah. So we had to watch Justice League too. So it wasn't good for us either. But I was watching that film and there's not much you have to change to make that film watchable. Yeah, I agree. Just to give you an example,
00:32:34
Speaker
like 40 minutes into the film, there's, they explain what the boxes are. And there's that whole scene. The mother box. Yeah. The not mother box, mother box. Yeah. And there's that whole, there's that whole scene of, you know, Steppenwolf coming down to earth, the green lanterns there, all the, all the gods are there. Everyone's fighting. Put that first.
00:32:57
Speaker
If they had put that at the beginning of the film, it would have made it so... That's all they had to do. I disagree. I think that whole movie was just so... No, no, no. I'm not saying it's not a great film otherwise, but that would have made the story so much easier to understand. Sure. You spend the first half of that film going, the fuck are these boxes? Yeah. Why do people want these boxes?
00:33:22
Speaker
Yeah. My biggest problem is I don't see that because I know what a mother box is. I get that. And if you're, if you're Joe Friday, you're going into watch this film, no idea what a mother box is. No, I'm, I'm agreeing with you. I think they, they, they misunderstand their, their characters so badly that they misunderstand their audience and what they need to explain. But that's the problem. They're not, forget, fuck the audience for a second.
00:33:50
Speaker
They aren't even true to the characters, the aesthetic, the ideologies behind the characters, the personality types. But the dumb part is they got this right in DC Universe Online, a shitty free to play fucking video game for the PlayStation Network. One of the first MMOs for the PlayStation Network. You had two worlds that you could travel to. There was Gotham.
00:34:13
Speaker
It was permanently night. All of the darker, greedier characters lived there and there was Metropolis and you had to travel through the police stations to get there because there was a loading screen in between and Metropolis was bright and shiny. Grodd was there. There was a Wonder Woman. All of the magical characters populated that. Yep. They got it right. The video game developers got the characters right and they managed to integrate literally hundreds of DC characters in one consistent universe.
00:34:42
Speaker
Why the fuck can't we do that in movies when you've only got 10, 20 characters?
00:34:47
Speaker
I mean, you had fucking Buster Gold in this. Booster Gold. Booster Gold, sorry. Buster Ryan. And his dumb son. You had the tick. You had the most random. I haven't watched the tick. I wanna watch the tick. I watched one episode. I'm gonna give it another go. But my point is you had some of the dumbest, not poorly written, kids written characters integrated with some of the most hardcore DC characters and it all worked seamlessly.
00:35:15
Speaker
Why can't they do that in a movie with 10 or 20 characters? It doesn't even need to be that many to start with. No. No, you're right. You can start off with five or six and give them the introductions they deserve and then you can build on that. Yeah. You know, you can bring in your Martian Manhunters in your cyborgs and all these guys. The supporting characters who are supporting characters in the comics. You know what? That's one path that they haven't taken yet is Martian Manhunter. And that's such a
00:35:41
Speaker
I think when they do it, they're going to completely fuck it. Other than the CW stuff. You know what? We haven't spoken about this beer. No, we haven't. So before you get to phase two. Sorry. Nah, it's cool. It's fine. I really wanted to like it a lot. I like it, but I really wanted it to be great. Did you introduce it? No, I didn't say you've got the can. Uh, so it's nine fingers brewing, uh, born in the U S ale. It's an American pale 5% ABV.
00:36:09
Speaker
It was fine. Amarillo and Centennial hops with a solid malt backbone. You can taste the Amarillo. And you can taste that hop character too. It's a little bit sweet on the palate, a little bit thicker and stickier. So I've got a decent amount of bitterness. It's not overpowering, but it's got a little bit more bite to it than a typical pale, although it is an American pale.
00:36:29
Speaker
Yeah, it was fine. I just, I just, I bought this over the black IPA of their black IPA. And I was, I'm now regretting it. Yeah. I should have gone the black IPA. It's a solid, it's a solid America pow. But the, the Pantera beer, which Chris is going to miss out on, uh, seems he's not coming now, uh, is the black IPA. And that's why I didn't get the black IPA. Yeah. I didn't want to get two of them. So.
00:36:53
Speaker
Yeah, it's fine. I mean, it's, it's good. I hate saying it's well made. I used to say, yeah, it's, it's fine. Yeah. It's just, yeah. Phase two. Phase two, Ben. All right. So you got 10 minutes and I'm taking a break. We open up phase two with a Batman standalone film. I'm going to adapt along Halloween. Hang on a sec. Continue. Right.
00:37:21
Speaker
So we open phase two with Long Halloween, a Batman standalone film. Coming up next is Man of Steel 2 where you can introduce Brainiac. Hang on, tell me about Long Halloween. That is where you actually get to see Batman be a detective. So Long Halloween is, is he the holiday killer?
00:37:46
Speaker
holiday killer. Holiday killer? Every month during a holiday or some sort of event, this guy goes and commits a murder. Have you not read The Long Halloween? I have not read The Long Halloween, but I would have asked you anyway. I know the Hush storyline, for example, but I would have asked you about a Hush movie because not everyone that listens to this shit knows DC. I know, but The Long Halloween is
00:38:16
Speaker
a good, great, amazing story. Okay. Yeah. But it's also a beautifully drawn graphic novel. We were just talking about the iPad pro that work just got me. So I will, um, I'll buy it. I'll buy the arc. That's the way I buy comics now. Long Halloween is basically how it's the story of you angry about dead. Fucking how old are you? Old enough, young enough to still do it. What sort of a question is it? Why a physical fucking copy?
00:38:44
Speaker
Yeah. Get the absolute version. I've got a few absolutes. You know, the irony is I've got a few absolute comics and I fucking love them. They're upstairs. I've got absolute hush. I've got all the original hardcover, um, darkest night and oh, sorry. Blackest night and brightest day. Like the original hard covers. They're fucking impossible to find now, but I still own the digital copies because when I want to read them,
00:39:06
Speaker
I can either go upstairs and grab the 30 kilo fucking dictionary size book or I can just flip through my iPad while I'm on an airplane. Yeah, fair enough. Is this all mine, Dan? That is, but you're not going to want to pour it. Okay. Anyway, so long Halloween.
00:39:22
Speaker
Just deal with the interruptions. All right. This is the podcast. Long story short, um, every month there's a different murder. Batman has, it's, it's when he's every holiday, every holiday is a different murder. Um, and Batman is, it's only year two of when he became Batman. Um, and he has to, he has to hunt this guy down. It's also how Harvey Dent becomes Two-Face.
00:39:46
Speaker
Okay. That's the origin story for Too Faced. Nolan's Dark Knight drew heavily from the Long Halloween. Yes. Heavily from, actually Batman Begins and Dark Knight actually both draw very heavily from Long Halloween. So. I haven't watched those movies. Batman Begins is year one. Yeah. But there's still elements in there. And then Long Halloween is year two, which is basically Dark Knight.
00:40:13
Speaker
Um, so yep. Move on to Man of Steel 2, where you introduced Brainiac. Wonder Woman 2. I'm surprised I haven't done Brainiac. He's a good character to draw in. Like he's, there's a lot there. He's, he's too weird for, in what note, he's too weird for what Hollywood thinks
00:40:33
Speaker
the audience wants, but we've had, we've now had Ultron. We've now had many, many, many arc Thanos manipulating things all the way through. I know he's not a weird character, but we now, the groundwork has been laid so much with Marvel that people are going to understand and accept a Brainiac.
00:40:51
Speaker
You know, the irony is I don't know if you, I know you guys don't watch. Well, actually, Ben, I don't know if you watch the CW series is Chris. I don't. Chris said during Bounty Hunter Banter that he didn't, but then he started watching it. We made Dan watch season one of Supergirl just because it was funny to make him watch it.
00:41:09
Speaker
They did The Thinker in Flash. They did a whole season with The Thinker. I don't even know who The Thinker is. He's almost, he's not a brainiac. He's similar to Brainiac in Weirdness and look, he's a hyper intelligent
00:41:27
Speaker
mutant, inhuman, whatever they fucking call them in the DC Universe. Brainiac is a robotic fucking hyper intelligence alien that steals cities from planets and bottles them. Well, I
DC Universe Planning
00:41:40
Speaker
mean, that's just one version as well. Yeah. Um, and he was a spaceship in, like he was literally a spaceship in, in quite a few of the generations, but he's, he's very much the Ultron.
00:41:49
Speaker
You know, Pym created the fucking, the artificial intelligence. There are versions of Ultron where he is also a spaceship. An artificial intelligence embedded in a ship. I totally agree. I think we're at a point where we could deal with that. If it's well written, you can fucking deal with it. If it's written in a comic and it was accepted in a comic, some smart fucker can get into Hollywood and write something that the audience will accept.
00:42:13
Speaker
But I think introducing Brainiac there in a solo story leads well to it being used in a wider arc as well. Let's get to the end of phase two. How many phases have you written? I vaguely remembered that's where you were going. Because we need to talk about this beer in a minute too. And I need to put out my objection between Long Halloween and Hush.
00:42:37
Speaker
After Man of Steel 2, there's Wonder Woman 2, where you introduce Cheetah, which is already happening. Shazam 2, where you introduce Black Adam. Aquaman 2, Flash and Cyborg, which would be like a buddy comedy. Lantern and Green Arrow, where you introduce Green Arrow and Black Canary. And then you can do something crazy like Suicide Squad. Because you've introduced enough of these characters, it wouldn't be that difficult.
00:43:04
Speaker
The world, the world is understood from there. You know, the funny thing is there's some really strong, great comic characters in Suicide Squad, in traditional Suicide Squad stories. I just think they totally, they totally shat the bed with that movie. They really fucking did. They did it too soon.
00:43:24
Speaker
And they didn't pick, they didn't draw from the right content either. No, and I agree with that, but they did do it too soon. This is what I don't understand. You don't even need a good writer to make good movies for comic books because the comic book writers have already done the fucking job for you. I know. That's like it's already storyboard for them. So frustrating. You know. Ben, have you seen Suicide Squad Escape from Arkham?
00:43:45
Speaker
Is there escape from Arkham? Something from Arkham. No, I haven't. Watch that. Because that is the Suicide Squad movie we should have gotten. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. But you could, yeah. You've seen it? Yeah. You could also do an Arkham. I don't know why. And I don't know if maybe you've got it in phase three, but there is so much you can draw from the Arkham Asylum. Um,
00:44:06
Speaker
I think subculture you've got I almost think that is a that's a that's a past this let's let's establish everybody because there's so much in like I mean we've banged on about it before about how they just need to make those Arkham games but there is so much in there
00:44:22
Speaker
that if they if they did what this run through this verse have those big those big world multi-world events multiverse events and then pull back after this as marvel have shown you don't have to do i mean you know we're we're we've come we've come off the back of the mega crossover where all of it coalesced into one movie or one trailer one
00:44:46
Speaker
trilogy of movies on duology. But they proved along the way that you can have multiple characters from standalone movies crossing over into their own arcs and then re-separating and then re-crossing with different arcs. So I'm trying to stall to try and remember the names but I won't. The Weather Wizard. Who were the four?
00:45:10
Speaker
in Arkham. Mr. Freeze, where the wizard... Where the wizard? Where the wizard's a flash enemy. Yes, but there were four villains. They were typically locked up in Arkham and they had their own name. Like they were the... They weren't the rebels. Fuck, it's going to bug me. I'll look it up.
00:45:28
Speaker
Carry on, keep talking. But you could do a storyline where they are the... You could do a crossover with a couple of the characters, two or three of the characters, like Flash Green Lantern or Flash Green Arrow. So that's where I'm kind of heading. Keep going. In the first phase, everyone was on their own. Second phase, you kind of have a few guys start hanging out with each other. And then in phase three, it's basically all just one massive crossover. Yeah.
00:45:56
Speaker
So after Suicide Squad, you move into Justice League 2, which would be the Injustice League. Phase 2, you've basically introduced all these new villains and they become the Injustice League.
00:46:09
Speaker
So run through that again. So long, long Halloween. Long Halloween. Um, where you could, you could use the Joker. Yep. Superman. Brainiac. Cheetah. Black Adam. Lex Luthor. And in the Flash and Cyborg movie, maybe you introduced Grodd. Yeah. Um, the Green Lantern movie, Sinestro. Sinestro, yeah. Yep. And you've got your whole, your whole phase two is, is about setting up villains. You know what? Setting up villains. I wouldn't actually do Sinestro.
00:46:38
Speaker
There are so many good Green Lantern villains that don't rely on the shitty brown yellow cloud that we already saw in the fucking terrible movie we got. That's parallax. Parallax, yeah.
00:46:51
Speaker
Yeah, you're right. He was in the post-credits scene, Sinestro. Sinestro was. Sinestro was like his mentor. He was a great lantern. Yes, he was. And then he turned to fear because fear was more powerful emotion. Yes. And... Parallax is the embodiment of... Of fear. Fear. Yeah. The Rogues was the name of the group. Oh, the Rogues. I think it's been referred to as the Rogues Gallery. But they all have a Rogues Gallery. Flash and Batman have a Rogues Gallery.
00:47:20
Speaker
Yes, but specifically the flash, but you could do a crossover event. So you've got Captain Cold, Miramaster, Heatwave, Weather Wizard, Trickster, Pied Piper, the top, and Captain Boomerang. Yeah, they're all flash enemies. And Gorilla Grodd often joined them as well.
00:47:40
Speaker
But they were also all locked up in Arkham, so it's easy to cross Flash into... No, they'll be in Central City, not in Gotham. Arkham's in Gotham. I am certain that they've been in Arkham at some point. I am certain you are wrong. Don't wave your phone at me. Motherfuckers. Maybe it was just in DC Universe Online, but they were definitely in Arkham at some point. Maybe in DC Online, but they do not make an appearance. Okay, but there you go. You stick them in Arkham Asylum and now you've got a Flash Batman crossover event.
00:48:07
Speaker
You've got five, you've got anywhere from two to five or six strong, self-defined, well-defined villains that you could need to draw in more than one character to defeat. If you've already done standalone movies, it's not hard to do. And they're interesting. Some of them are interesting. Yeah. Yeah, I can. Yeah, I can see the point. Yeah. Carry on, Ben. Phase three. No, no, I'm getting to my argument about Long Halloween and Hush.
00:48:39
Speaker
Did you say hush? Where's that phase two? That's in his phase three, but I keep going on about it. Okay. So I disagree with the placement of those two. I think the introduction of the bat family should come much earlier.
00:48:55
Speaker
So I think if you're going to do Batman as a paranoid bad guy, you then need to introduce some level of humanity into him leading into that phase too. So you start that with Hush, which has Nightwing talks about Jason and Death of Jason. Tim is in it? No, Tim is not in it.
00:49:20
Speaker
But can't you also argue that that kind of happens in Long Halloween because he fails Harvey? Well, he does, but there's no... Yeah. The family values aren't there. You've still got Martha. Yeah. Yeah, no, I tend to agree. I don't know where you'd insert the Hush storyline, though. It'd almost be a Batman 2. It's Phase 3. That's right. That's where I've got it.
00:49:48
Speaker
Yeah, but you're six to eight movies in before you do it though. And the reason I want to do it in phase three is because in Hush, that world is already really established.
00:49:58
Speaker
And that's what I like about it. And that's what I like so much about Batman versus Superman is Bruce is there. Robin has been there. I think it's an enormous shame that we didn't get references to anyone. I think it's an enormous shame that wasn't when after watching it the other night that when Bruce wakes up in the bunker or whatever the house is that he has on the property there, I think it was a huge
00:50:22
Speaker
Shame that they didn't have the woman in the bed or some association with her being Selena Kyle. There was no, there was no other references. There was no references to the Robin that was in the suit. That's in the, like, it was obviously Jason. I mean, we know it was Jason.
00:50:38
Speaker
because he's dead, but where's Dick? Where's Tim? Alfred wasn't in it enough. I mean, the relationship between Affleck and Jeremy Irons was awesome. I loved it. I bought- Anything with Jeremy Irons is fucking awesome. I really bought that he had bought the Affleck Batman up and they had that
00:50:59
Speaker
the looks that they give each other and the snide remarks, like there's that Jeremy Irons is that, I hate what you do, but I love you as a son, so I'm gonna support you. And then there was that Affleck, shut the fuck up old man, but I can't say that because I respect you sort of thing. There was that there was- The dynamic was perfect. The dynamic was great, but I think there was definitely that Dick Grayson, that younger, cause he makes that comment, Alfred makes that comment about you've even grown too old to die young.
00:51:27
Speaker
And we know there was a robin, but Jason Todd's the second one. We know Dick Grayson was there beforehand. You want to play that card that only fans know that only one robin, that the major robin that has died was Jason Todd? Give us something to say Dick Grayson was there. There's a woman in the bed. Make it Selena Kyle.
00:51:48
Speaker
Put the fucking costume in the whip. Even if you don't plan to use it, drop the fucking reference so that you have the ability to use it later if you need to. Yeah, exactly. Make something there. And I think that the establishment of the Bat family, have him talk to Oracle. Have someone there. Have that there. And I think that's what Hush brings so much more to the Batman character. The long Halloween is Batman and Harvey, or Batman, Harvey and Gordon.
00:52:13
Speaker
It's just them. I think establish the family early and then go to the solo story later. You could almost do that as a... So one of the things that you'll note with Marvel that's worked out really well is they've got multi-phase trilogies where they're standalone movies with one of the characters in it. And each movie stands by itself as a self-contained story, but it's part of a trilogy arc.
00:52:43
Speaker
You'd almost dedicate a trilogy to the Bat family. There is so much interesting backstory for those characters. You know, the interplay between Batman and Robin as Robin because as Dick becomes Nightwing. Yeah.
00:52:59
Speaker
the training, almost what they did with Titans, but not quiet. And then comes back out as Nightwing goes through his own Genesis process of finding himself and almost becoming another Batman that's not quite Batman, because he's got his own set of values, but they deviated quite far away from Batman to start with. He rejected essentially his father character, he rebelled, and then came back and found the right balance for him.
00:53:26
Speaker
That's an interesting story. That's a movie. The interplay between Nightwing and Batman or Robin becoming Nightwing with Batman in the wings. It's still a Batman movie, but it's actually not really a Batman movie. It's a Robin Nightwing movie.
00:53:40
Speaker
Yeah. Um, you could easily play that into a trilogy and you don't even need a fucking villain to make that interesting. You need enough of a villain to drive the plot, to push the, to push the Dick coming of age story, but you don't actually need a strong flow of words there, Peter.
00:53:59
Speaker
What did I say, Rob? The dick coming of age story. That gets into your porn parody section. But you don't even need a strong villain for that movie because the central arc is about character development. You don't. It's the whole Civil War thing where the Baron
00:54:18
Speaker
Red Baron no, no Civil War Captain America Baron Zemo Baron Zemo was a background bad guy. Yeah So he was there as a plot device. Yeah. Yeah, I think you could do so much more with with that Yeah, but I don't know if you could do it in one one movie I don't think you cover the Batman fan of the bat family. Yeah, but I think effectively in one movie But I think that's why something like hush
00:54:42
Speaker
Hush is great. Hush is obviously a major story on its own, but I think there's enough of them introduced in that story that they're introduced. They're there. We know they're there. They're established. This shit's been going on for a while. This works. I guess this whole thing you're working on is the aged Affleck Batman.
00:55:06
Speaker
No, no. OK, we were talking about I I loved Affleck as Batman. My only complaint was that he was too old.
00:55:14
Speaker
Can we get to the end? You know what? Can we shut the fuck up? I'm not even saying let's get on with it. I'm saying, can we talk about casting at the end? Yeah, sure. Who we would cast. Yeah, okay. Yeah, no worries. I think it would be interesting. Yep. Sorry to Ben. We do need to talk about this beer. It's terribly aged and oxidised and I'm sorry.
00:55:38
Speaker
To whom? This is very new, isn't it? Didn't Wen just get this? We're back to Q sellers, so we've- Yeah, but it's American. This episode has been sponsored by Dan's Pocket. Three Weavers Brewing the Messenger, Sunny India Pale Ale, so it's an IPA.
00:55:54
Speaker
Yeah. I don't know what the sunny, it's from South California. It's suffered horribly. Yeah. It's, there's a lot of oxidization. There's massive amount of oxidization. And yet I still get hop character in it. Just not as sharp as you would expect. Yeah. There's a little bit of citrus, but you can tell there was a hell of a lot more. Yeah. Um, yeah, this is what, this is what happens when you buy a US beer in Australia. Yep. Sorry. My bad.
00:56:19
Speaker
This is why we do Aussie beers. Carry on, Ben. No, it's not. It's not why we do Aussie beers. Well, well, fresher is better. The Australian industry is fucking magic. Well, it is. Well, no, the Australian industry is magic, but I mean, also the American industry is amazing as well, but they've got a ship at thousands of kilometers together here.
00:56:41
Speaker
Continue. Which is why I won't go over there and drink Goose Island. I love watching the frustration on Ben's face every time we cut him off. And we keep saying, okay, Ben, now start talking again. I actually changed my mind. Sorry, Ben. Carry on.
00:56:54
Speaker
So you kind of brought me around. I'm happy to move Hush into open phase two. I think that's a good idea. And then maybe in phase three, you can do something like a Damien. Damien. Yeah, Damien. Damien would be great. Yeah. Because by that stage, you're kind of ready for that.
00:57:14
Speaker
Actually, that's almost perfect because Phase 3 opens with Flashpoint. Imagine finishing Endgame
00:57:32
Speaker
Keeping everything as fucking completely hushed as what they could, and then the next movie, three quarters if not 99% of the next movie, is just completely off the fucking wall. The wrong people are around, the wrong people aren't in positions.
00:57:52
Speaker
So do Flashpoint without the intro sequence that tells you what the fuck's going on. That's exactly it. Don't tell people it's happening. That man's got red eyes and he's killing people. Exactly. And you can tell it's somebody different or keep him in shadow or something completely wrong and different and make it feel awkward. Just a head fuck.
00:58:11
Speaker
a complete head fuck and then just do that entire movie. Don't do 10 minutes of that movie. Don't do five minutes. Don't do half of it. Do that entire fucking movie. You have big, big steel balls. That would take enormous steel balls. But in saying that, by the time you get to Flashpoint, you've already had five, six years of movies and I think you're ready to take that kind of risk.
00:58:38
Speaker
Cause you already made enough money to know that people are going to watch the fucking movie. Yeah. Oh, I completely agree that that's, yeah, that's, that's what they should do or what they should aim for doing. But I mean, don't tell people. I don't, yeah, I agree. They'll never do that. I know they won't. There's too many leaks. The release of the San Diego Comic Con and some fuck records it. That's just too perfect for Comic Con. If they come out and go first point, everyone will lose their fucking mind. They wouldn't even have to. You just have to see a Batman with red eyes and everyone will know that would go to a Comic Con. Everyone would know it's, it's not Bruce.
00:59:08
Speaker
I don't think there's an issue with comparing. I don't think there's an issue with saying DC should clone Marvel's storytelling devices because the characters are so different.
00:59:21
Speaker
that it wouldn't matter. It wouldn't change the outcome. Oh no, I agree. Be true to the characters. I just didn't want to keep going, hey, what happens if Marvel did this? I wanted to kind of get away from that. But I think if every single Marvel movie in the lineup, in the 34 movies and the 20 odd years that we've been watching them,
00:59:39
Speaker
If there was, if DC came out with an equivalent plan, okay, we need to start with an Iron Man style character. Who's an Iron Man style character? Blah, blah, blah. Let's do a trilogy and then we'll introduce this. I still think that follow, I copy the formula, rip it off. But with DC comic characters using DC story arcs, you'd still end up with its own universe, with its own interesting tapestry of characters. We'd still pay millions of dollars to fucking see it. But with Flashpoint, you don't have to do that. No, no, you're right.
01:00:10
Speaker
Flashpoint's a bit of fun. The Suicide Squad should have been a bit of fun. Yeah, so that's kind of what this is. It is a bit of fun. And then that's how you open phase three. So we do do a full alternate universe flashpoint, like moving, yeah, all the way through. With it reconciling at the end or, yeah, with the whole- Proper flashpoint. Bruce reading the letter. Yes. Cool. Yep. And then- It's one of my favorite animated movies, by the way. Yeah.
01:00:40
Speaker
And then you could do the Damien Wayne story, like we talked about. Um, next would be Wonder Woman three set in modern times. And you could start developing like Superman would be in that and you can start developing that relationship. Um, cool. I never understood. I get that he's with Lois in the comics, but I always felt that him and Wonder Woman were a much better couple. Um, and then you can move on. There's always been tension there. Yeah.
01:01:10
Speaker
They've just never really explored it. And in the new 52, they did hook up. Yeah, different clock. And then Aquaman 3, and then I would adapt Green Lantern Corps. He's the only one, she's the only one that could take his load, let's face it. Yes, we've all seen more rats.
01:01:28
Speaker
Green Lantern Corps, whole movie set in space. Green Lantern Corps, sorry. Yeah, it's your guardians of the galaxy. Carry on. I would say it's our Thor Ragnarok. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. You're right. That's a much better super hyper colored. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Then I do a Suicide Squad 2, a birds of prey film where you can have Catwoman, Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn. You could even have some of that Bat family turn up. Oracle, Nightwing, Tim.
01:01:56
Speaker
Yep, you'd have some fun with that. And then- Oh, that'd be such a good- It'd be such a fun- Girls versus guys kind of movie, yeah.
01:02:05
Speaker
And then things get real. Death of Superman, which is basically their Infinity War. Yeah. And then Justice League 3, which is everyone tries to revive Superman because Darkseid's turned up. Yeah. Yeah. Have the Justice League get their ass handed to them by Darkseid? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No Superman. No.
01:02:29
Speaker
Shazam, something's happened to Shazam. So there's none of these super ultra powerful characters. And have Wonder Woman and Aquaman to try to take him on and just have the complete and utter beat down of them. And yet, is that it? That's the end of phase three. That is end game. I would say I would end that as Infinity War.
01:02:59
Speaker
and have Darkseid beat that living snot out of them all and start to nightmare BVS, Batman's Nightmare, the world.
01:03:11
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. So you'd almost have two Justice League films. Yeah. So you'd have your Death of Superman, then Justice League 3, where Darkseid comes, kicks the shit out of everyone. And then you'd have Justice League 4, where they resurrect him. Yeah, but you've got to roll into that. So that's three phases of movies. How many movies title? Including the three or four that we've already got that you didn't throw out. Yeah, I was going to say the extras that we had it in along the way. Yeah.
01:03:40
Speaker
Silence is golden. There used to be an old, there was a shirt of a girl down up in bondage with a ball gag and it said, silence is golden across it. 26. 26. But four of them have already been released. So three phases, 26 movies. Endgame was 34? No, 22. 22, okay. And that's the end of phase three or phase?
01:04:07
Speaker
That's the end of phase three. Okay, so it's an equivalent arc overall, because there's still so much good content that you wouldn't be able to do until you'd had done the first three phases. There's still infinite crisis on infinite earths, which is not quite the same as
01:04:24
Speaker
But I think that's where, I think, correct me if I'm wrong here, that's where Ben's gone with this. He's gone the whole. Establishment of the universe. Establish of the universe and get, let everybody get comfortable with that. Yeah. And then, and then start introducing these multiverses. That's some crazy ass shit. I mean, you could do a brightest day. There's a crossover. That would be, that would be part, that there is almost a phase on its own because so many of those characters go in and end up getting rings and being part of one of the core. Yeah.
01:04:54
Speaker
And you really start to fuck with the core fabric of the established characters. Superman becoming a black lantern for the period that he was. I was more talking about the other colors. Yeah, I know. But I mean, you're right. They all got rings. They all became various lantern core. Did you read any of the brightest day blacks? No, dude. Oh man.
01:05:19
Speaker
Flash got a blue ring. So blue is hope. Yep. Uh, Batman obviously got a yellow ring, which is fear. Yep. Uh, Lex Luther got orange, which is greed. Yeah. Who, who got, who got red? Someone red is red is anger.
01:05:39
Speaker
I don't remember. The swamp thing came back for it because he was dead at the time. So the ones I can't remember are red, indigo and violet. Yeah. So love, anger and anyway, we've completely fucked this up. And then this leads into our- Soops was black.
01:05:56
Speaker
Yeah, but everybody was black at some stage because the black was the dead. Yeah raised from the dead. So and they've all been dead. So they were all black at some stage. He was. Oh, that's going to bother me. I'm going to go back and look at the hard covers now. But seeing, seeing the, uh, the.
01:06:13
Speaker
Your stand, like that could be, that could be an entire phase because there's, there's so many of these crossovers where all of these characters come into it and they all get a ring and they all play a part. And like, it's, it, oh fuck it's, it was an amazing arc. Amazing arc. And it really does drag everything back into the green.
01:06:32
Speaker
or into the lantern core, the group of cores. Um, you take characters into space that wouldn't otherwise be in space like they did recently with end game. Um, but you don't have to put them there permanently. You can put them back on earth when you're done, but you've, you've still got, I mean, infinite crisis, fuck some shit up. You could, you know what? If you had a rogue director who wanted to just do a parallel DC universe series of movies, you'd have to do it as a trilogy. You couldn't do it as standalone. You've still got injustice.
01:07:00
Speaker
Yeah. You could do some, which is, which is almost once again, a phase on its own. Yeah. But I don't know that injustice could coexist in the established universe that you plan to continue after injustice. Why not? Because it's a, it's a parallel universe. That's what I mean. It's a parallel universe. Why could it not exist? And you've, you've got the guys, you've got the, you're the current established, you'd have to get characters leading into that injustice world. I mean, it starts with the, it starts with the rift.
01:07:29
Speaker
Yeah, but I would almost do it in parallel. I would say, right, so we've established the first three phases. You know the characters. You know what they stand
Creative Casting Ideas
01:07:36
Speaker
for. You know who they are and why. Then we're going to kick off phase four, which could be a series. It could be whatever you wanted to do for phase four. Come up with a plan for phase four and potentially phase five and do an injustice trilogy whilst you're doing phase four.
01:07:53
Speaker
It's almost like what we did with Suicide Squad or even Shazam. They're in the universe but they're tangential. They don't affect the rest of the universe. You don't really have to take them into account when you think about them. Yeah, actually that would work really well because you could use the same actors. Yeah, they're in contracts. You're going to do this movie and then you're going to lead straight into the Injustice 2 movie. And you could be running them almost back-to-back per year.
01:08:18
Speaker
And the best part is, you want to keep the actors interested in the shit that they're doing in contract? Right. Give them something creative to do that's different. Hey Supes, you've gone from representing, you know, the all-American fucking dream, hope and justice and all the rest of it. Now you're a bad guy.
01:08:35
Speaker
For this whole movie, you're the most fucked up- The world ruler. Yeah, you are the Nazi, you're what happens if we gave fucking, gave Hitler superpowers. Go. It would keep it really interesting. And then in between, because you'd still be doing phase four movies, you'd have to flip backward and forward. You'd have to pick good fucking actors. Yeah. And let's talk about casting if you're done, but I want to take a quick break. If that's cool.
01:09:02
Speaker
Okay, so now I'm very happy to say we have a good beer, two hop nation beers that didn't even make it out of the box before I bought them. When Quaker sellers had to actually grab the invoice and enter them into his system with a price and everything for me to actually, I stood around for like 10, 15 minutes chatting to him while he was serving other people and trying to enter these into the system. It's just so I could buy them for tonight.
01:09:31
Speaker
This is a really, really confusing label for me. It's a very different Hop Nation label. Yeah, it is. It must be a collaboration. It's Red Rabbit. Oh, it's an oak aged sour. So Red Rabbit was aged in oak before re-fermenting on a very, on the very same organic cherries used in 2018, Lapland cherry sour blonde. The beer was then canned condition resulting in a complex rich set. I'm fucking looking forward to this. Yeah.
01:10:02
Speaker
All right. Casting. Who would you cast for the major characters? Oh, look at the color in that beard. Pretty rich. So casting. I like Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman. Yep. I think she's fine. Um, I think she's fine. Yeah. She's lovely. Um,
01:10:22
Speaker
I don't think, I think, I think she needs to go on Henry Cavill's diet. She, she suited the character though. I think she plays the role well. Yeah. She doesn't have to be, you know, ripped. I don't think, no, no. Oh, it's a fuck man. Sorry. I put, wait, do you have way too much for you? That's too much for me. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. We're not wasting this one. No, we're not. Oh, and then I probably took too much out. There you go. That's cool. That's going to drip. Um,
01:10:49
Speaker
I really like her. I think she's a great character actor. I think she suits the character personality really well. For me, that Wonder Woman film has been the only DC film that's been good for me.
01:11:06
Speaker
Yeah, I would agree with that. The best one of. Yeah, Aquaman was passable. Aquaman was a solid C. It's one of the first movies I can say that I enjoyed more the first watch through than the subsequent. Usually movies grow on me.
01:11:26
Speaker
I couldn't get through it the second time. Wonder Woman. No, no, fucking Aquaman. Yeah, I agree. I got bored when he got, when he got to Atlanta, not to Atlantis, when he, when he got to, oh fuck, I can't remember the name of the, the cave that he ended up in. Yeah, that's right. Where he found his mom and he's fucking tried it. Yeah. I just, I'm over it. I was, I was over it by that point. I turned it off. I went to bed. I won't go back and watch the rest of it.
01:11:53
Speaker
I really, I, and yet Mal, um, fucking Momoa is the perfect actor. It is spot on. Yeah. I think, I think he's great. I wouldn't change him. I think he's fine. Um, Henry Cavill, Henry Cavill.
01:12:09
Speaker
Can we go back to my bitching about Gal Gadot first? I think she's great as the character. I think she plays that part beautifully. I love her portrayal of Wonder Woman, Diana, whether it's the Amazonian. She's a solid female lead. I loved it. I think she's awesome. I really, really do. But I really want her to hit the gym a little bit harder because she's a little too skinny.
01:12:34
Speaker
I just, I just, I just want that. I want that. I want that. She has the curvaceous and yet muscular at the same time, but she has the physical structure to be like, she has that wonderful man equivalent. She does. She has that structure there, but you, you look at when she's grabbing, when she's holding the shield or the sword.
01:12:57
Speaker
And the biceps are a little too thin. There's not quite enough meat on the shoulders as well. I think it's the opposite for the Superman. Yeah, he's too big. He's too big. I think he needs to slim down a touch. I think Affleck as Batman was the perfect size. I don't think Cavill can do that.
01:13:15
Speaker
Yeah. Well, you said that he's he's him as Geralt in that trailer. It's just crazy. Yeah. But he just, but he bulked up overdrive. He bulked up for Superman. He could have stopped early. He's massive in the Witcher 2 though. Bigger as Geralt, who is meant to be a smaller character than Superman.
01:13:31
Speaker
Yeah. And we, we talked about that, but I mean, what I'm saying is Henry Cavill got as big as he did for the Superman movies. He did. Yeah. They should have stopped his training earlier than they did. He was too bulky. He'd cut too many times before they stopped him. If you want, if you want him to lift his arms above horizontal, like his hands above his shoulders, I don't think the man could do it. Like he's, like he's deltoids. So these deltoids are like fucking basketballs.
01:14:00
Speaker
And yet our concept of what Superman should look like has changed as culture has changed. Because if we go back to the Christopher Reeve's Superman, that guy... He's not huge. No, he's not. He wasn't even ripped. He's not big at all. He's not frumpy, but he's not ripped. And he has a suit that's super tight. It was pure Lycra. It was basically wearing a fucking unitard. Brandon Ralph.
01:14:28
Speaker
Brandon, Brandon Ralph was a good balance. He's a big guy and he had that and he's tall and imposing and he had that broad shoulders. Henry Cavill has super broad shoulders, but it's just so fucking thick. Yeah. If you, if you drew the female audience, I mean, I don't know a woman that doesn't sigh in that scene when he comes out of the oil rig out of the water after the oil rig scene and he's fucking topless. Yeah. But I think I have the, I have the same argument with,
01:14:57
Speaker
Hemsworth in the first Thor. Too big. Too big. And then you look at him in Ragnarok and he's much better proportioned. Like he's still, the man is still insanely big. The funny thing about what you're saying though is he has actually bulked up more for Ragnarok. He just rounded out. He rounded out. It was a better distribution. He wasn't, and I know it sounds a dumb thing to fucking say, but he wasn't so comic booky.
01:15:25
Speaker
He wasn't so massive up the top and thin around the waist. In Ragnarok, he looked imposing all the way through. It was a misty universe kind of built. Yeah. And that's my bitch about body physiques. But I think Affleck was bang on for Batman and BVS. It's my favorite Batman. And yet so underutilized. It's such a shame. I agree, but I feel like Superman and Batman need to be the same age.
01:15:59
Speaker
No, I disagree and I say that because Superman doesn't age.
01:16:04
Speaker
So ultimately, he does. He does, but slower. Yeah. But, but my point is you could, you could cast a late twenties, early thirties. I mean, the reality is, you know, he's roughly 30 in the movies, right? You could have a 50 year old Batman or a 40 year old Batman or a 30 year old Batman and still cast a 30 year old Superman and it still work. It just comes down to which story arc you're talking about.
01:16:29
Speaker
Yeah. So do you think the age difference between Kaval and Affleck was too much? Yeah. I thought Affleck was a great Batman. I just, it's the same old story with DC. They thought everybody likes Dark Knight Returns. Let's make that. But without an old Superman. Yeah. I actually, I probably do agree with you on that one. Yeah. If they, if they, if I, I have always said, if I was casting Batman, I would have cast Matt Beaumont.
01:17:00
Speaker
Who's Matt Bymer? Oh, you've already got in there, ready to go. I definitely recognize the face, but he's a little bit more of a digresson to me than a... Hold on. Chris Wayne. Yeah. Yeah, okay. Can I see?
01:17:16
Speaker
What's he from? What's he done? You've picked a younger, more chiseled Henry Cabot. It's a spitting image. Just quickly while you're IMDBing, this beer is one of my favorite fucking sours I have ever tried. This is everybody get your hands on Red Rabbit from Hop Nation because 2018 sour redder. Sour redder.
01:17:42
Speaker
So my gold standard for sours, for kettle-aid sours would be the- This isn't a kettle-tour. There's no way this is not a kettle-tour. This is a proper- Proper barrel-aid sour.
01:17:55
Speaker
Well, even not a barrel, this might be a sour mash or something like that, but this is amazing. This reminds me of the reserve release of Lolita from Goose Island. Oh, okay, yeah, yeah. It is a rich cherry sour. It's huge amount of barrel, huge amount of wood. Mouth puckering. Your mouth, all around my gums is all dry from all the tannin of coming out of the wood in the barrel.
01:18:24
Speaker
It's complex, it's mouth puckering and you just want more. Yeah. And I'm going to take a photo of this because Tom and Chris are messaging as we speak and I'm going to take a photo of this and say, you're fucking missing out. That's my favourite Australian sour. Yes. So Hop Nation, you've fucking knocked it out of the park. That's a five out of five. More Justice League casting.
01:18:53
Speaker
So Matt Bomer is in White Collar. Yes. That's where I know him from. Yeah. And he was also in Magic Mike. I haven't seen Magic Mike. I've been meaning to watch it. It's not very good. I've seen it. Yeah. It's just, there's too much cult around it now to not have seen it. You get to see Olivia Montopolis. Okay. I don't know who that is.
01:19:20
Speaker
Okay. So we know what Dan's going to watch on the plane. I'm not watching Magic Mike. I love Channing Tatum. 21 Jump Street and 22 Jump Street are fucking amazing movies. I haven't seen 22 Jump Street. Oh man, it's so good. I've seen the first one. The best things about both of those movies, but especially 22 is they, they play to the strengths. They know Channing Tatum and Jonah Hill are older.
01:19:46
Speaker
So they played those jokes to them being older. Like that all the way through that. They get that it's just a shit take that they're doing on everything. Yeah. The thing I liked about 22 Jump Street was that they just took the piss out of themselves. They knew, you know, they know that this is a sequel that only got made because the first one did very well. And they talk about that all the time. Like Ice Cube basically says, um,
01:20:16
Speaker
I'm back here with a new mission and I've got a bigger budget because you guys did so well on the first mission. Sorry, just quickly. How many of these did Wen have? He literally opened the case to take that out for me. There was, it was a case of 16. So if you're not back there tomorrow morning. I will be back there tomorrow morning. I guarantee they're going to start to go because that is that red rabbit. That's amazing. I'm going to go buy all of them I think. Yeah.
01:20:43
Speaker
So, who else? Who have we got? Green Lantern. Who would we cast for Green Lantern? Which Green Lantern? We go on how? That's a really good point. It's Hal Jordan. Or Jon Stewart. No, I'm with Ben. It's got to be Hal. It's got to be Hal to introduce the Green Lantern. I disagree with that. It's got to be Hal Jordan, but then you can do Green Lantern Corps and you can introduce everyone. No, I see. I reckon you start with a Kyle Rayner.
01:21:08
Speaker
You start with it, you start with a Kylo Renner, you have the other three off-world, and then you have Green Lantern Corps, and then you have three human Green Lands, straight off the bat, and you don't have to waste your time in a Green Lantern Corps. And all the rest of them, Barrog, not Barrog. Kilowog. Kilowog, thank you. You have three human, four human Green Lands.
01:21:30
Speaker
uh, already straight off the back in green Latin core. And then you don't have to waste time with origin stories and everything like that. Because in Kyle Rayner, you go, can Ryan Reynolds play Hal Jordan? I'd rather Ryan Reynolds, he was much better as a Kyle Rayner. He was always, I always thought Ryan Reynolds would be an awesome flash. Yeah. Yeah. He would have been. He would have been too tall though. But yeah, he would have been a good flash.
01:21:57
Speaker
I think the current Flash is not a bad Flash, but they need to script him better. I like him. I like a lot of the other stuff he's done. Every movie that I've seen him in has been really good. I've got to say, the core CW casting, as much as, I mean, you're talking about the CW. No, no, I'm talking about Ezra Miller.
01:22:19
Speaker
Ezra Miller. Yeah, I'm not talking about fucking CW crap. I'm talking about Justice League. CW is never getting onto the big screen, mate. No, it's not. It was half the point and yet some of the casting hasn't been horrible. I actually think they nailed it for Green Arrow.
01:22:38
Speaker
He, I mean, he's got the wrong coloured hair. It's not long enough. He doesn't have the beard. He's not old enough. He sounds perfect. Yeah. He's getting bang on. Yeah. He's too big. He's too short. Yeah. Okay. Right. Yeah. Absolutely smack bang on. But is the discount Batman? He's not actually half bad. Yeah. Because I mean, he's not the detective side of Batman, but as the stoic
01:23:01
Speaker
Fucking, you know, straight down the line. These are my moral values and I don't give a fuck who pays the price for me to stick to them. The actor actually does a fucking good job. The supporting cast is terrible. Supergirl's just wrong. She's just not strong enough as an actress or an actor. She's too glee. She can't escape the fact that the actress came from glee. Yeah, she is. She's too. That sounded flash.
01:23:29
Speaker
Yeah. And he's not a, he's an, he's an okay iteration, but he's not, he's not flash. Right. And he's definitely not Barry Allen. I don't know. Cause I don't, I don't, I don't watch these shows. He's not the right balance of trickster and, or jokester, not trickster, that's a bad fucking one. Wise cracker. And yet really serious and really
01:23:51
Speaker
He's the emotional anchor for the Justice League in a lot of the comic series. I always thought of him as like DC's Spider-Man in terms of character. Yeah.
01:24:06
Speaker
Wally more than Barry. Right. But, uh, yeah. Well, Barry died pretty early on, really. But Barry's Barry's been back for years now. Yeah. So that shows you how it's ironic. I probably know more DC than I know Marvel. And yet I read more Marvel growing up than I did DC. Um, yes, but he died in flash point right at the start. Or was it infinite?
01:24:32
Speaker
I think it was infinite. Yeah. I think it was infinite crisis. He dies right at the start of infinite crisis. One of the first to die. Yeah. So the first crisis, he's the first one to go. Yeah. Um, and, and it almost precipitates the, the rest of the crisis. Yeah. Um, and now he, he came back on the last one. Right. Okay. Which was a couple of years ago. I haven't read the last infinite. Um, I don't know who I'd cast Ezra Miller. I,
01:25:00
Speaker
I don't see it. I think it's, it's close, but I don't, I don't see him as flash. I just, not as Barry Allen anyway. Yeah. I do tend to agree with you. I, I like the actor. I like the actor. There's a place for him in DCU. I just, I just wouldn't put him in his flash. I can see that. Yeah. I guess he probably doesn't hold the values of the flash. I know either, but I liked his, his jittery can't shut the fuck up in interjecting wrong lines in the wrong place.
01:25:28
Speaker
plays a good Spider-Man is flash. He does. Yeah. I just don't know that that's the flash we want to start with. Wally and Barry are both super intelligent, like incredibly intelligent guys. And their wisecracking isn't a, isn't a high school college humor. Their wisecracking is super intelligent.
01:25:48
Speaker
and rolls off the tongue, doesn't miss a beat. Yeah, very subject orientated. And in a lot of the crossovers, Barry, and particularly in Justice League story hugs, Barry and more Wally, because Wally's been in more, really, than Barry. It's the comic relief for how damn straight down the line Batman and Superman are, particularly when you put Batman and Superman in the same room.
01:26:17
Speaker
because they get harder and they get, they get more straighty 180 when they're around each other than they do when they're apart. Um, Batman, when, when, when Bruce is doing his own thing, he's got his own little emotional fucking shit storm that's going on. Superman's kind of always Superman, but you put them in the same room and they're almost fucking preening around each other and a lot of the justice league stories. Um, so you put a Wally West in and you get that comic relief.
01:26:44
Speaker
It's funny, I mean... And he points it out too. He does do a good job of pointing out how straight Superman is. He takes the piss out of the rest of the characters. Oh, they definitely do. He makes fun of Batman and being dark and glooming in shadows. Definitely.
01:27:01
Speaker
I forget whether it was new 52 when they sold as a run. Yeah, it must've been when they ran into the new Justice League and Batman and Superman. Superman was definitely this character that they, the Justice League was mistrusting. They didn't, they didn't trust him because he was so strong. And then it came out that him and Superman had been working together.
01:27:19
Speaker
A significant amount of time and that was they were actually closer and Superman and Batman were actually closer and you kind of lost that peacocking. Yeah, but there was there was obviously those times where they disagreed from not so much in the new 52 because the Superman was a little bit darker and harder.
01:27:39
Speaker
I don't think I've actually read a single new 52 episode comic. It's not bad for the introduction of the new Justice League with Darkseid and everything like that, which is what the animated the Justice League animated movie. Forget what it was called. It wasn't called Doomsday. I was about to call it that.
01:28:00
Speaker
I don't remember, but it is actually an awesome introduction to all of the characters for the new 52. Like Flash and Green Lantern know each other. They've been working together. It's the creation of Cyborg and his introduction to the Justice League. I just think he's the weakest Justice League character. I don't understand. If you were only going to pick four or five,
01:28:22
Speaker
for the Justice League movie we did get, why the fuck would Cyborg be one of them? I've got to say, if you're going to buy anything digital, buy that Justice League run. The new 52 run? The new 52 run. And only sort of the first four or five issues because it's the one arc and it starts with the GCPD chasing Batman and it is very, the Justice League movie, but done well. Okay.
01:28:48
Speaker
with Darkseid, not Steppenwolf. And it's done well. And it's the introduction of all these characters in a new universe. But let's, let's be real. The only reason they did Steppenwolf is because someone pussied out and didn't want to put Darkseid in. Didn't want to, didn't want to make Candyman, didn't want to make Candyman the Darkseid character. They wanted, they wanted to lead into Darkseid. They wanted to lead into Darkseid. That's why they did it. It was, it was a shitty ramp. It was a shitty ramp.
01:29:14
Speaker
Okay, so let's call it Darkseid. Who would you cast as Darkseid? Because when I made the Candyman reference, he played Darkseid in Smallville. Did he? Okay. I'm pretty sure I could be talking out my ass, but I'm pretty sure he played Darkseid somewhere. And Smallville was the only thing I could think of that he would have been in. I know he's already been cast as Black Adam, but I actually would have seen Dwayne Johnson as Darkseid. The Rock would have been good. No, no, no, no. Too humorous.
01:29:44
Speaker
No, but he doesn't always play humorous. I know he does in a lot of the stuff we've been talking about lately in the Fast and Furious movies. Sure. In the Jumanji world movie. Sure. But you, you put him in that, he's actually a fucking good actor. You know what? You probably would never need to make him CGI, would you? No, you just put him in the, you just put him in the blue suit with the face paint. Yeah. But he's got that, he's got that really broad, ridiculous about him. Yeah. It's almost kingpin, but with muscle.
01:30:12
Speaker
Yeah. Girth and thickness and... But he's also got the facial structure for it too. I don't... I think if you put the helm on, he'd be a perfect dark side. He'd look the part. I feel dark side. And this is why I say the guy that played Candyman because... I don't know who the fuck you're talking about to be honest. Oh, really? Oh, he's been in heaps of things and he has this incredibly deep ominous voice. He's like our age, James Earl Jones, but never really cracked that market kind of thing.
01:30:42
Speaker
I love him. I think he's a great actor and I think he plays those incredibly intimidating, bad guys where he barely needs to say anything. Why can't he just be the voice? We could be the voice, but it- We're going to get another Schwarzenegger. Conan. No, you could- So you're talking about the movie called Candyman? Candyman, yeah. Xander Berkeley? I don't know. No, it's not him. The guy that plays the Candyman.
01:31:09
Speaker
I'm not going to be in IMDB as the Candyman in the Candyman movie. Candyman is the character in the movie. It's named after the Candyman. I'm thinking Andy Serkis. Just as a CGI Andy Serkis. Tony Todd.
01:31:28
Speaker
You'd know him from a bunch of things. Yeah, that's him. Yep. He's got an awesome voice. Awesome voice. I don't know if I could see the faces Darkseid though. Yeah. Yeah. I reckon punch in a Darkseid Smallville and see who played Darkseid in Smallville. Keep talking. Yeah. Andy Circus. I'm thinking Andy Circus. And then someone like a Keith David as the voice.
01:31:53
Speaker
Who's Keith David? He's just a black guy with a super deep voice. And who's he played or voiced or what's he from? He's a character actor. Have you spelled dark side? Dark S I E D or E I D? E I D. Dark seed is how it's spelled.
01:32:15
Speaker
Anyway, yes, I've got free run of the mic here because you're both googling shit. You told me to Google. Yes, I know that guy and I really like him too.
01:32:28
Speaker
Yeah. He's awesome. Yeah. He plays. I can see him being the voice and then Andy Serkis does the mocap. Yeah. Did you find Darkside in Smallville? No. I'd have to go to Smallville and search because you can't do that in IMDB. Well, don't just punch into Google. Fucking just keep talking. Yes. I agree, Ben. He is. He's fantastic as well. So he could, he could voice as well, but he could also play a Darkside. I mean, you chuck him in a mocap suit. He's pretty big too from what I've seen him in
01:32:56
Speaker
whatever he's been in. Lots of things. They're both Googling. So run of the mic. You're never going to beat Andy Serkis in a fucking mocap suit though. No. No. Yeah, you're probably right there. And the man who knows how to move in a mocap suit for many different things. Styles of character, yeah. No, you need Andy Serkis. Well, I'm sure he could play multiple characters, but Guerrilla Grodd. Andy Serkis plays Guerrilla Grodd.
01:33:24
Speaker
He's almost typecast out of it. And did he do, was he Kong as well? Yeah, he was. He was Kong as well, wasn't he? Okay. Yeah. So he's played a couple of monkeys or apes, I should say. Sorry. They both do. Love song dedication. God, don't ever, don't ever do that again. No, Dark Side was played by Lionel Luther in Smallville.
01:33:54
Speaker
was played by Lionel Luther. The same guy played Lionel Luther and Darkside. Yeah. It sounds like Darkside kind of took over his body. Oh, well that's so fun. But then, um, uh, fucking Superman's father. Um, oh God, that's going to bug me now. Uh, you know what? Candyman probably voiced him. Jonathan Kent.
01:34:16
Speaker
Also, so the actor that plays Jonathan, Ken in Smallville also ends up playing Brainiac and two or three other fucking... James Masters was Brainiac. Spike from Buffy was Brainiac in Smallville. Yeah, I can see that. I can see that. So we're moving away from DC. Are we? Have we thrown our cast through? We're not cast. I would put Stephen Amellion as fucking as Green Arrow. No, no, no.
01:34:47
Speaker
If you're gonna do- What a blonde beard and fucking long hair. No, you could need the guy who's playing Wolverine. The new Wolverine? Yeah, from Kingsman. Yeah, I could see that. I like him. To play who? I don't know.
01:35:07
Speaker
I just eat just a different version of Steven Amell. Would you put a Supergirl? Oh, it's Green Arrow. Would you put a Supergirl in? No. Any of your movies? I might put her in a Man of Steel movie, but not just as long. We're a Bird of Prey. Ever come in as Bird of Prey? Yeah. Okay. So Catwoman? Oh. That's tough. I really like the idea of Vanessa Kirby, who is in Pubs and Shaw.
01:35:35
Speaker
And apparently she's up for the role and I think she'd be really good. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. Um, she'd be a good super girl too. Cause she's very blonde. Yeah. Yeah. I could say that would be actually really good. She seems quite tall as well. So John Schneider, Jonathan Kent, Brainiac, Tina Gray from Smallville.
01:35:54
Speaker
What? I'm IMDB. Okay. So you can shove your spike from Buffy up your ass. James Masters definitely played, um, who else have we got left at the table? Green Lantern. Green Lantern. Yeah, we never got past Green Lantern. It's really hard though. It's such a pivotal role. I always liked Bradley Cooper.
01:36:19
Speaker
He's a little bit too old now, but back in the day, I thought he would have been really good. This is what you do. You start. He'd be a decent Hal. Yeah. You start with a Kyle Rayner, Green Lantern, and then you roll into Green Lantern Corps where Hal comes back to earth and it's. And I could see that. Yeah.
01:36:35
Speaker
Yeah, I could see that. I don't know who you'd put in as a Carreino though, because it's got to be a good balance between comedy and serious. Be in touch with emotions, but at the same time, not soft. It's actually a really hard role to cast. Then for him, maybe you'd got to go from Kingsman.
01:36:56
Speaker
Yeah, I could see that. He's a little short. He's a little short. He's a good actor, though. He is a good actor. Yeah. If Chris was here, we'd know his name. I can't remember his name. You know what? I wouldn't be super opposed to the guy who plays Cyclops in the X-Men from Ready Player One. No. As Kyle Rayner?
01:37:16
Speaker
I think he's too weak an actor, to be honest. I can say that. You can say that? Yeah, I couldn't. Idris Elber is John Stewart. James Masters was Milton Fine, Brainiac and Brainiac 5 in Smallville. Okay. I've never actually watched Smallville. I've watched a couple of episodes, but... You've watched a couple of episodes. I'm pretty sure you bought the box set, didn't you?
01:37:39
Speaker
No, I literally have watched like probably season one, maybe all of season one, maybe not. You know what? I remember the- You watch more Supergirl than Smallville. I'm proud of you. You probably have watched more Supergirl than Smallville. I used to love the girl that played Lana Lang. There's a lot of unknown actors in it. We're at a point where, well, obviously Ben hasn't been drinking that much, but
01:38:06
Speaker
We're not even describing the names of actors anymore. We're just describing them generally. I know her name. It's Kristen Kruk. Just didn't want to admit it. I think we're on our final beer for the night. Sure. I would like to keep drinking, but we'll see what happens. This is Hop Nation. This was another one that didn't make it out of the box before I bought it. This is so fresh. It's like chewing on a hop cone. Dream Feed Hazy IPA from Hop Nation. It's a 6.5% and it is spectacular.
01:38:36
Speaker
crazy fresh like beautiful hot character and this is why we need to not get distracted by American beers in fridges and by Australian beers because that is incredibly good. It is so and I mean it's funny I I've said in so many episodes too many episodes that I'm I'm I'm over hops
01:38:58
Speaker
No, that's such a fucking beautiful blend. It's so balanced. I'm not over hops though. What I've discovered over the last 10 or so episodes is that I'm over IPAs. I'm over the hop character in the hyper hops in IPAs. You're over the West Coast IPAs. You put me in a NEPA like this? East Coast IPAs.
01:39:17
Speaker
I mean, this is labeled as a hazy IPA, but it's a fucking neeper. It's an East Coast IPA. It's so hoppy. It is the only character you really get out of it. There's no citrus in this that I can detect. You smell it, it smells like a bud. It smells like marijuana. It's really resinous. Really resinous, really piney. It's dry, but not dry. It's got a super dry character only because it's got so much hop in there.
01:39:44
Speaker
Yeah, that's right. It sucks the moisture out of your mouth. Um, but this is fucking brilliant. Yeah, it is really amazing as well. Yeah. Good job. What did you think? Again, you, I think you made a sour face when you, when you tried it was all right. It's a little bit too much resin. Yeah. The one before was a lot better. I thought the sour one was nice. This hour was spectacular. Spectacular and amazing. So this, uh, this one's amazing. The last one was spectacular.
01:40:11
Speaker
Two really good Hop Nation bees in a row. Yeah, fuck man. And then we got the Imperial Stout if we want to crack into it later. That's definitely a night end. We're at almost two hours, so we'll see how we go. Well, there's about 20 minutes of cut there as well. That's true. That's true.
01:40:26
Speaker
So, who did we cast? We didn't cast Catwoman. I reckon she, the girl from- Vanessa Kirby was who I would pick? Supergirl. I mean, come on. She's straight up Supergirl from Hobbs and Shaw. Isn't she blonde with blue eyes? Yeah, but she doesn't have to be. I know she doesn't have to be, but- No, I think you put her in a Supergirl, but I don't know if you- How much Supergirl screen time is it really gonna be? Well, they're probably not. Birds of prey didn't have Supergirl. I'm just being facetious and putting someone in for the sake of it.
01:40:55
Speaker
would you go older Catwoman? So Bruce age Catwoman. And then- It depends how old Batman is for me. Motherfucker. It's gotta be around the same age. If it's Affleck's Batman, I would be going for Angelina Jolie and I would not look back. She is perfect.
01:41:13
Speaker
As an older catwoman, she is perfect. Yeah. She's still proven through movies like Salt that she's still quite live for someone that of that. You know, you know who I'd probably go over that would be Charlize Theron.
01:41:32
Speaker
She's fucking tall though, isn't she? She's tall and broad in the, you know what? She would have been a fucking awesome Wonder Woman. Phifer already played Catwoman, right? Yeah. And yet I could still see Phifer as Catwoman at an Affleck age. I could see her cast today as an Affleck aged Catwoman. She's way older than him. Yeah. She's like 15 years older. But yeah, she would be. I wonder what Alicia Silverstone's doing these days. Oracle?
01:42:05
Speaker
You've got to remember Oracle, you've got to have a bit of a Batgirl origin story here for Oracle. But without fucking Batman. Yeah, let's not go over that. I've never sat in a cinema and felt so awkward and looked around and seen everyone else look so fucking awkward than that scene in
01:42:24
Speaker
in. Yeah. What was the name of the killing, the killing joke, the killing joke. When, when Batwoman fucks Batman on the rooftop with, with Oracle, I haven't seen that. Oh my God. Don't bother man. Apart from that scene, it was, it was really great fucking movie. It was a great adaptation of the comic book. I think you don't, I think you go Tim Drake as a 20 year old, you got Oracle as a 20 year old. Okay.
01:42:51
Speaker
then I want Chloe Moretz. I know that name.
01:42:56
Speaker
Hit girl. Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah. She'd be a bad ass bat girl. Yeah. Okay. Play her for bat girl for, uh, an intro in somewhere or a flashback and then have her as Oracle. Yeah. And she's, she's really good where you could just have her behind a, behind a desk and some screens. And she would be, she would, she would nail that. Yeah. I'd still be strong enough as an actress to, to build a character. That's interesting. Yeah. I could say that.
01:43:23
Speaker
My call for Poison Ivy would be Emma Stone. Emma Stone. I'm absolutely agreeance on that. That was exactly who I was trying to pull the name from. Yeah, Peter. Yeah, she's almost a little old. It depends on, I guess it depends on which Poison Ivy you're doing and what the vintage of the rest of the girls are. All right. Joker.
01:43:49
Speaker
She's 88, so she's what, 30? What? She was born in 1988. Oh, who? Emma Stone. Emma Stone. Yeah, so she's 32, 33. Yeah, no, I think she's perfect. That's perfect for Poison Ivy. 29. 29. Younger than Selena. Older than Barbara.
01:44:09
Speaker
Who did we pick for Selena? What was the vintage of Selena? Because we were flipping between old and young. I liked Vanessa Kirby. If you're going with a middle-aged... If you're going with an early 30s Batman, I want Vanessa Kirby. Yeah, okay. If we're going with... If we're going with Affleck, I want Angelina Jolie. If you're going with your... I don't know if I'd go Vanessa Kirby. I just don't see the physical, the facial structure, the shoulders. Watch Hobbs and Shaw. She is...
01:44:38
Speaker
Yeah, no, fuck yeah, she looks a great, she'd be an awesome Selena. You chuck her in the Arkham City Catwoman, the goggles, the, yeah, yeah, man. Put some armor on that catsuit, she'd be killer. Okay. Yeah, I agree. I'm surprised we haven't had any Game of Thrones characters, actors thrown into this at all.
01:45:05
Speaker
Because they've all come out recently. They're all probably too young. They've all come out recently, have they? They've all come out of contract recently. There we go. One little word makes the huge difference. But they're all probably too young. I mean, the two girls are certainly too young to play anything in this DC universe. They're not as young as you think. 22 and 26. Santa's Stark would be mid to late 20s by now, yeah.
01:45:33
Speaker
25, 26, something like that. And what's the name? Oh God, I'm just not doing it tonight. Maisie Williams. Thank you. Okay. Call it Joker. Oh, Ben called this. The guy that plays Pennywise in it. Yeah. That would be fucking awesome. Scarsgard, Scarsgard. Bill Scarsgard, that'd be so good. Even his older brother.
01:45:59
Speaker
Yeah, I can see that. Eric Skarsgård. Eric Skarsgård? No. Alexander Skarsgård. Alexander. He was Eric. He was Eric in True Blood. Yeah. Knew there was an Eric in there somewhere. Either of them. Yeah. I can definitely see that. They got that facial. There's so many different jokers. They got that facial.
01:46:14
Speaker
You're talking about the long fucking drawn. The pointy chin. Almost the killing joke fucking Joker. Yeah. That real, yeah. European, thin white man look to him that he gets even whiter when he gets bleached. But I really liked Jared Leto. I thought he was fine. I just, I think they did the wrong thing with him and they didn't cover enough. I think as an actor, he was perfect for it. Yeah.
01:46:41
Speaker
I think the version of the Joker wasn't even a comic Joker.
01:46:47
Speaker
It's like they took four different versions of the Joker and tried to blend it in and then they added some weird fucking misplaced tattoos and some silver teeth. It just didn't work. The tattoos are the tattoos I don't get. And I really wanted him to jump into that pool after Harley and be bleached and be bleached again and have all of those tattoos just melt away for the rest of the movie. I was really hoping. They had an exit clause. They had an exit. That's exactly it. They had an exit.
01:47:14
Speaker
I think the actor would have been perfect for it, but they fucked it. Same as Affleck for Batman. Yeah. I think with, also with Jared Leto, they had that whole, everybody kept saying, well, your Joker goes through phases. He goes through his gangster phase, which is what that was. Yeah, but you don't go through a tattoo phase and then suddenly not have the tattoo. Well, Joker kind of does. He build his face off and then stitched it back on.
01:47:38
Speaker
So yeah, Joker kind of does go through, I'm going to pull my entire skin off phase. So I also, I also feel like they wanted to make that Joker as different as possible from Pete Ledger's Joker because cause Heath fucking nailed it. Yeah. They need to go to an extreme.
01:47:55
Speaker
I get it, but pick an actual Joker from the comics and then get the actor to play that. Don't go so different that you have to invent a new character that there's already 12 different versions of that are all strong, rich, interesting. The worst thing they did with Suicide Squad was cut him out of the movie.
01:48:14
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That whole, the actual tattoo I really did like was where he had the smile on his hand and put it in front of his face. I really like that. I think that was extremely clever for that version of the Joker. But like so many of the actors that have played DC characters, Jared Leto was fucking furious at the outcome from that movie. Yeah. Yeah. Affleck. And again, I think- I reckon Cavill was too, but he just hasn't, he's too nice a guy to voice that opinion.
01:48:44
Speaker
Yeah, I would say that. Yeah. Affleck and Jared Leto, they're, they're experienced. Yeah. And they're old hand and they're not gonna, they're not gonna shy away. Yeah. And they've got enough money. They don't give a fuck. Jared Leto specifically has gone through enough shit that we're not just talking movies either.
01:49:02
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I tend to agree. And you know what? And I think Margot Robbie was another perfect cast that they, they shat the bed on. Well, they didn't, they didn't, we didn't talk about Harley in a birds of prey, but I think, I think you just go Margot Robbie. Yeah. I don't see any reason to change that. She is perfect. Not only is she off and she does, and she does the accent so well, she's not only is she off the hook, fucking psycho crazy, exactly what you want out of a Harley Quinn, but she plays the librarian nurse.
01:49:32
Speaker
perfectly as well as the psychologist but even you watch you watch any of that from any of the Harley backstories that they've committed to film or in the games or whatever and you still get that even as
01:49:47
Speaker
the psychologist. She even, she always has that twinkle of unhinged. Yes. And Margot Robbie had that, that little, that little unhinged twinkle in her eye. It was the way she holds herself, the way she delivered the lines that I think, I think she's great. And she's such a good actor. She is a good, great actor. Yeah. Came out of nowhere with Wolf of Wall Street. I still haven't seen Wolf of Wall Street. Wolf of Wall Street is a great movie.
01:50:13
Speaker
She plays Sharon Tate in the new... Yeah, I can't wait to see that. Comes out the day I leave, I'm so annoyed. Yeah, wear away wallet releases. We have a 30 second break and then wrap up or... Sure. Let's do that.
01:50:27
Speaker
And we're back. And I'm going to add a marker. Fuck you, Dan. So we're going to move away from DCEU for a second to talk about a couple of other movies that... Well, you and Ben are going to talk about a couple of other movies. Yeah, but yeah. No, I'm going to interject like the asshole that I am.
01:50:44
Speaker
So can we, well, I'm going to, I want to start with the one that I didn't like. So I bought two movies on the weekend. So Ben, Ben from 89 fucking, he is the absolute movie critic because he used to be a director of films and is well into the film industry. Fucking hated Hellboy. It was, it was horrible. What was so bad about it?
01:51:07
Speaker
Do you want either? It's pretty strong. No, I'm good. I always thought that it was risky to change from Ron Pillman who seemed to be such a good fit for the role. You were already
01:51:25
Speaker
You were already behind the eight ball by rebooting it in the first place. Why reboot it? It didn't need to be rebooted. It needed to be a perfect film to get around all that bad press from replacing Ron Perlman. And David Harbour... Was he a bad Hellboy? Because he looks cool. Yeah, he does look good.
01:51:45
Speaker
And I like him in Stranger Things. I think he's a good actor. Yeah. He was a, he wasn't a bad, he wasn't a bad Hellboy. He wasn't a great Hellboy. I don't know that he's a great actor. I, I, he plays the role in Stranger Things well, but I don't know that he's a great actor. You know, I really hate Hop Nation. Why? Because their beers are so good. They feed the addiction. Oh my God.
01:52:15
Speaker
2019. Oh my gosh. Kalash was aged in- Now you know what I mean!
01:52:23
Speaker
Do you want to try that Ben? Cause God, no seriously. Like that's good. Fuck me. That is so good. Look at the color. You racist. Just drink the beer. It is like sipping on a chocolate bar. 2019 collage is aged in seasoned bourbon barrels for four months before blending. The subtle Oak and bourbon character integrates with the dark chocolate.
01:52:49
Speaker
Sorry, I'm blind. Ta and spice. The rich brooding beast will take you to the dark side. Cheers, Sam and Dunk. Uh, this is a 9.8% Russian Imperial Stout from Hop Nation. Oh my God. That is fucking good. It's probably the only Imperial Stout I can think of that I'm enjoying.
01:53:14
Speaker
Usually Imperial stouts have so much booze. Yeah, they burn all the way through and you may as well be drinking a scotch. Yeah, this has so so, you know, it has a full flavor of you know, the front palettes really chocolatey. It is like sucking on a chocolate bar. It's got a lot of sweetness. There's a lot of lactose in it. I don't know if there is I think this might just be residual sugar that doesn't have that it doesn't have that lactose character to it.
01:53:40
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. So it is quite sweet. Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely sweet, but I'm not sure it's lactose there. But you do get the complexity of the bourbon. You do get the spice. There's almost a burn in the back palate. Yeah. Um, yeah, that's a, that's a great beer. Well done young padawan. No, that's, that's a, that's a great. It's just, it's all bourbon on the nose. All bourbon.
01:54:07
Speaker
There's a little bit of roast background there, but it's got that real sour, sour smell to it. Just when, just when I think I'm going to cut down on drinking high alcohol beers, these motherfuckers do that shit. Yeah, that's, that's great.
01:54:24
Speaker
Well done, Hop Nation. Well done. I absolutely salute you because they were three absolutely fucking cracking beers. Yeah, they really were. So Hellboy. Look, David Harbour, I think he's a decent actor. He didn't play a terrible Hellboy, but he was a little bit
Hellboy & Creature Features
01:54:41
Speaker
You know, it's hard to judge. I don't think it's the acting. I think my problem with the movie was they tried to do too many things in one movie that they didn't do any of it well. His emotional outbursts didn't align to the character that they had developed in the story that far. So whereas Ron Perlman, when he had his tantrums, they were in context of a character that they'd already established. He was very much a teenage child.
01:55:10
Speaker
Ron Perlman in a hellish man body. But the way that they built up to those teenage rebellions. Oh, yeah, I know. It was completely fit. Whereas you get the rebellion without the fit in this. The man stands on top of a apartment building and throws stones at the guy that's taking his girlfriend out, cracks him in the forehead. And it was funny as well. Oh, it was fucking hilarious. Yeah. The new Hellboy movie just didn't have that
01:55:39
Speaker
Podcast Cat. Podcast Cat is back. It had the comic, it had the attempted comic relief, but didn't execute it well enough to actually be funny.
01:55:50
Speaker
Are people like, is like Abe's Apian in it? No. And what was the girl's name? Liz. Liz. No. No Liz? No. I know nothing about Hellboy other than the movies. I've got to say this though, as a creature feature movie, as a raw, if they had done it just as a out of Hellboy universe creature feature, fucking brilliant.
01:56:14
Speaker
Yeah, okay. I love monster movies. It was brilliant as a monster movie, but it's not the better book. I can't remember the name of the Scandinavian, I think it's Scandinavian, fucking the woman with the temptress. Hello Cara.
01:56:33
Speaker
Anyway, um, it's, it's a great, it's a great creature feature movie. Yeah, I can't, I can't think of the name of it. It's not the when to go. I can't think of the creature. Anyway, it'll come back to me later. Uh, it starts with B and it's not the batter book. Babadook. It might've actually been the batter book.
01:56:54
Speaker
No, the Babadook is the Australian movie. Yeah. That was a really good way too drunk. Have you seen the movie? Man, it's such a, it's a, it's a fucking yeah. I wanted to like the movie, but I didn't. Well, we'll come back. We'll come back to the Babadook one day, but the Australian movie, if you watch.
01:57:15
Speaker
The fight scene with the three giants was, was fucking brilliant. It was, it had the right gravity to it. You had giants that felt like giants. They had, they were modern. So it wasn't, wasn't old school giants. They were wearing car doors as armor, which was cool. They had mega axes. They, it wasn't, it wasn't kind of Hellboy two where it was still very mythological based.
01:57:44
Speaker
No, it had grounding. It certainly had grounding in mythology, in proper mythology, but it just, it was modernized. I think as a creature feature movie where you tried to jam as many monsters from ancient mythology into a movie set in modern day, it was actually really well executed. Everything with CGI in it was spot on and perfect.
01:58:06
Speaker
The thing that, that fucked the movie was the actual plot. It was just all over the place. There are some brilliant actors. David Harbour. So Miller Jogovich is a witch of some sort. She is the witch. She is the main protagonist in the movie. Okay. Um, antagonist, antagonist. Sorry, you're right. Um, she's Yaba gaba or Yaba gaba, Yaba gaba. She's Nemo the blood queen. Nemo. Okay. Um, and,
01:58:35
Speaker
Baba Yaga. Baba Yaga. That's the thing I was thinking. That's the, the crazy. I knew I was close. Um, she's not Norwegian. She's um, European of some sort. Eastern European. Yeah. Like Romanian or something like that. Oh, sorry. Is gypsy a bad word?
01:58:51
Speaker
I don't think so. Are you talking about Baba Yaga or me? Baba Yaga. Yeah, me. I think Millie Okovich is too, isn't she? She's Eastern European. Do you think she's Dutch maybe? Dutch? Yeah, okay. There we go. I love Ian McShane. He's brilliant. He's in both American Gods as the narrator and one of the gods. Mr. Wednesday.
01:59:18
Speaker
He was in something else I watched recently too, but- Was it Pirates of the Caribbean? Well, he's in that as Blackbeard. Yeah, he's Blackbeard. And then he's in- He's in John Wick. Yeah, he's in John Wick as the hotel owner. He's a brilliant actor. And Deadwood. But he plays- He's in Deadwood?
01:59:37
Speaker
Yeah, of course I have. Until it got... Well, they've just done a movie. They've just done a movie. Yeah, they are. A Deadwood movie. Like, it's released. Okay. I haven't seen it. I didn't know it was out yet, but I know they're doing it.
Alita: Battle Angel
01:59:49
Speaker
Yeah, no, it keeps popping up on my should watch. But overall, the movie was disappointing because it was close to being good and yet so damn far away from being good. And there was no need to reboot it. There was no need. It didn't tell a new story that was interesting.
02:00:03
Speaker
You know Tim who we had beers with and interviewed at he's doing Guillermo del Toro in concert So this is my my cousin and he he's conducting the Guillermo del Toro concert in like the music from Guillermo del Toro movies. Yeah and TV series that's a he just finished doing it and he came straight off the back of doing fucking the Little Mermaid and
02:00:31
Speaker
Cause he does a bunch of work for fucking Disney and Sony and a whole bunch of people. So, uh, yeah. Who's doing trolls for a long time. Yeah. Which is Guillermo Delta. No, troll hunters. Troll hunters. Sorry. Right. Which is Guillermo del Toro. Oh, right. It's Guillermo del Toro series. So my cousin works with him on doing the score and
02:00:52
Speaker
So Troll Hunters is the first time Tim's done the entire score and recorded as well, like from start to finish all the way through for a series or a movie or anything like that. So other times he's done all of the orchestrating and recording.
02:01:08
Speaker
or he's done the scoring, but he's never done the troll hunters was the first, first, first one all the way through for Guillermo del Toro. And Guillermo loves working with him now. There's an awesome photo of the two of them on, on the Tim posted up. So yeah, they've just done the, they've just done the concert last week. So next time he's in Sydney, we need to re-interview him.
02:01:30
Speaker
He was here between Singapore and doing the Guillermo del Toro concert, but he had to, it was a duck in, duck out. Is it? We'll go get drunk again and record another podcast in a brewery somewhere.
02:01:47
Speaker
So Hellboy was a massive disappointment to me. It just wasn't consistent with what I loved about the first two movies. And I've got to say, even with the two Ron Perlman movies, I loved the first one. The second one was a bit meh. I could have taken it all even. Yeah, I would agree with that. Left it. Alita. You two talk Alita. I know nothing. So Alita.
02:02:09
Speaker
I liked. I thought it was an interesting story. I felt like they tried to squeeze too much into one film. That was my only real complaint with the leader. I would say that I left the movie wanting more. Oh, no, I did too. And in that sense, I agree. But at the same time, I'd never felt like it was rushed.
02:02:38
Speaker
I, it is probably one of the best non-Marvel movies I've seen this year. That's a big goal. It was, I, it had the magic of Ready Player One without the- Wait a minute. We've covered this bridge before. Why, you were trying to explain the Uncanny Valley to Chris about the, I know that was something else. I was talking about the Uncanny Valley. It wasn't a leader. It was,
02:03:08
Speaker
I don't remember what the context was. No, I've got to say, for a character that you know is not real, but actually if you check IMDB and see that the actress that played or the actor that played the character before the CGI,
02:03:26
Speaker
All they did was CGI her face to make her eyes a little bit wider apart and bigger. And otherwise, you know that she's in the movie in a mocap suit interacting with the actors all the way through the movie. Yeah. No, I thought the effects were amazing. It was seamless. They did a very good job. And even though you know that it's not real, she interacts emotionally enough and the other characters interact directly enough that it may as well be real.
02:03:53
Speaker
But I've got to say, no, I love to lead all the way through. I thought it was a brilliant movie. It deviated a shitload from the original manga movie. There's a lot of stuff in the manga movie that really never made it into a leader and vice versa. Anime. Anime. Sorry, manga. So I bought it on Blu-ray over the weekend. I haven't watched it again yet, but I've only seen it in theaters.
02:04:16
Speaker
I've only seen it on disk. I did the same thing. I watched it yesterday. I could rewatch it now. It was brilliant. I remember enjoying it. It did feel like there was too much in there for one movie.
02:04:33
Speaker
Yeah, I disagree. I never felt like it was rushed. I get what you're saying. It's certainly densely packed. Do you mean the set pieces were too much for each one or the world was not? No, I just felt like it tried to do too much in one movie, I thought.
02:04:50
Speaker
So that definitely felt like the opening to a trilogy. Yeah, definitely. And and in fact, if you go back and watch the original anime movie, it it could easily have led into a trilogy as well. There was certainly more story to tell it ended without resolving the major. Okay, so that's that's that's where it was. There's there's too much there storyline wise to having said that it is it is I did enjoy it. I just that was my only that was my only complaint.
02:05:19
Speaker
Like all good stories, though, it's set in a world that's already existing. It doesn't establish the world for the story. The story unfolds in an existing world. Fuck, I've had too many beers. Not half a cent. It's probably not helping. Yeah. It's gritty. It's realistic. There's subcultures going on. There's mythology within the world. It's way past, like it's set well into the future.
02:05:48
Speaker
Yeah, I loved it. I thought it was a brilliant movie. There is lactose in that beer. OK. I can taste it now. Yeah. So they're the two movies I watched on the weekend. Alina and Hellboy. I was let down by Hellboy, although the creature feature elements were brilliant. Watching realistic live maggots crawl out of undead bodies as they crawl out of the ground was fucking brilliant. Yeah, but is it as good as the Tooth Fairy scene in Hellboy 2?
02:06:18
Speaker
No. Yeah. No. Not by a long shot. Tooth fairy scene is like awesome. And yet Bubba Yaga is fucking cool, man. Like saggy old girls tits, fucking upside down, walking with a hands. Like it was, it was really well done. I didn't actually know that was how much Bubba Yaga was in there, but anyway. Yeah. Yeah.
02:06:39
Speaker
Ghost in the Shell.
Ghost in the Shell Adaptation
02:06:40
Speaker
Going on Alita and weird Japanese worlds, cyberpunk worlds. Have you seen Ghost in the Shell? I have. The, the, the scholarly handsome one. We talked about it. We talked about it. We did. We randomly crossed paths on Sunday morning. Briefly crossing paths. Have you seen the... I have. I really liked it. Really? Yeah. I did too. You didn't? I didn't hate it, but I feel, have you seen the anime?
02:07:07
Speaker
I have, but like when it first came out, so it's so many goddamn years ago that I couldn't. I think if you divorce it from the anime movie, it's a good standalone, it's a decent standalone movie. I feel like the people that didn't like it had a super duper connection to the anime and they just couldn't see anything else. Okay. And that's... I've got to say this though.
02:07:28
Speaker
What's the what's the movie where I'm sculling your hands and as Chris always put it turns into a USB stick at the end like Lucy or something isn't it not her her is Joaquin Phoenix.
02:07:40
Speaker
Yeah, but she's, she's who he falls in love with. Yeah. She does. She knew the voice does. Yeah. No. And he's talking about Lucy. I think, I think it was Lucy. Yeah. So, so as much as I thoroughly enjoyed ghost in the shell, having watched ghost in the shell six, seven, eight months ago, when it first came out on Blu-ray,
02:08:01
Speaker
It merges into Lucy in my mind. Too much. I kind of expect the ghost and the shell character to turn into your space stick at the end, when I know intellectually that's not what happened at the end. Other than the Marvel movie, she probably hasn't done that many solo movies like in between those ones. Lucy was the first movie where she was the main character. She was the major actor, actress, actor. Good choice of words there.
02:08:28
Speaker
I just, all this politically correct bullshit. She's an actress. Good job, Carl. She's the female version of an actor. I don't know why they needed to merge those two terms. What the fuck? They're actors. They're actors. Why? Why? Why not? It's like saying that, why can't they be actresses? Why can't female actors be called actresses? Why was that a politically incorrect term to start with? I don't think it's a politically incorrect. I think it is just a correct terminology. Okay.
02:08:54
Speaker
Well, to take it to the beer world. A brewer is a brewer. Whether they're male or female, they're a fucking brewer. They're not... They're all he's. Whatever. No, they're not all he's. They are. The definition... Gender identifying terminology is not necessarily politically incorrect. I don't understand why we need as a society to change things so it's all one.
02:09:18
Speaker
You were equal. I'm not saying that you're not equal. I'm just saying that there is a different term for it in the English language. But I don't think there's any need to be differential on it. Sure. Okay. Whatever. I don't actually have that strong an opinion about the topic. I just... So I have a female on my staff. She's a brewer. She's a brewer. I understand what you're saying. She's not a brew-ess, is she?
02:09:44
Speaker
I don't know. You put a cape on her. I'm pretty sure she could be. She probably liked to be too. She probably jumped around in the fucking gate. Most of us would probably jump around in the fucking gate. Don't worry about that. I've never met your, your bruise. So I, I, I'm just saying anyway, ghost in the show. I enjoy the movie. I thought it was really good. I thought the ending was a little overacted. I thought it was a little anticlimactic, but I thought it was. Yeah, it was. But look, if you're talking about this, the death scene at the end,
02:10:15
Speaker
No. While they're lying next to each other in pieces and they're like, I still fucking love you and all the rest of it. But it was literally the anticlimax of the story. The big fight had already happened. It was the emotional scene after the big fight, the cathartic moment where they learned something about themselves. I actually thought everything leading up to that spider crab, I thought having the spider, well, no, see, I didn't think so. I thought having
02:10:43
Speaker
having just a machine there and it's been a long time since I've seen the anime so I have no idea if this is how it finished or not but I feel having that that spider tank there was a little bit of a cop-out I wanted more of a... I think the whole ending sequence was conceited it was too convenient to wrap the movie
02:11:05
Speaker
Yeah. There was no one else around. It was an, it felt like an empty world. It felt like a fucking set. Yes. It felt like a set. Yes. And the CGI set or a blue screen set. I think the actual fight sequence, I think the death at the end, it was all very convenient to wrap the story. Yeah. But outside of that.
02:11:23
Speaker
I think anything leading up to that, I think her as the ghost in the shell was excellent. I think the whole idea of the predecessors being the ones that were tapping into, for lack of a better term, and I'm saying this in quotation marks, the matrix.
02:11:41
Speaker
to cause all the troubles. It did feel very matrix. Yeah, to cause all the troubles. And I'm sure the Wachowskis pulled heavily from Ghost in the Shell for any of their shows. No, they just stole a script from someone else who pulled from this. I found all that was great. I thought the antagonist guy was awesome. Who was that? I don't know, but I wish they'd expanded on him a little bit more.
02:12:04
Speaker
Backstory cuz he was the predecessor to her. Yeah, and he got introduced about three-quarters of the way through and gave her the shadow of doubt So she went found a mother and this and that and it just it but the way that they portrayed the the character with the fucking the spinal column that came down from the ceiling and
02:12:22
Speaker
spinal column that came down from the ceiling. It's been a while. Wasn't he connected to the fucking? No, yeah. He was, well, that was when he was plugged in, but he was a full body, like a humanoid body, but he was a humanoid, but robotic and he had the fucking shit coming out of his back. And when he was plugged into, once again, quotation marks, the matrix, uh, that was cool. I really, yeah, you're right. I think they should have explored that more, but
02:12:45
Speaker
Yeah. I enjoyed Ghost in the Shell as a standalone movie. I think they did a good job of turning a real life actress into a CGI actress to turn her back into a real life actress. Yeah. I think General Zod was really good too. I do like Chris's. I still remember. I like General Zod and everything. He's very good. I still remember Chris's joke before it came out. Michael Shannon.
02:13:10
Speaker
I still remember Chris's joke before it came out that you just want to watch it because it's Scarlett Johansson in a fake mood suit. Yeah. Yeah. She's not really naked Pete. Yeah. Yeah.
02:13:20
Speaker
Yeah, I think Michael Shannon's, uh, the, the, the little pinpoint eyes that he gets after he gets the eyeballs burnout was very anime. Yeah, it was. And it played very well into that cyberpunk cyborg alteration world. I really enjoyed it. I thought it was great. And I'm, I'm really into that cyberpunk kind of stuff. Yeah. But just, just anchoring this, this conversation goes in the shell back into a leader.
02:13:46
Speaker
Beyond wanting to, to represent the aesthetic of manga and anime, why did they cast Alita the character as a CGI character with wide eyes? To me, I don't know. Because James Cameron was involved.
02:14:08
Speaker
She just likes to do cool shit. What should she have been? She could have been the original human actress with a robotic CGI body. There was no reason to modify her face. They could have used the original actress's face. In the anime, she didn't have the wide eyes.
02:14:28
Speaker
No, no, no. In the anime, everyone has the wide eyes. They've all got the fucking Astro Boy fucking face. It was on the other night. Never watched it. It looked bad. Fucking love Astro Boy. I do too, but the original Astro Boy. That was my introduction. Yeah, yeah. Me too. He shoots bullets out of his arse and I thought that was hilarious. I can't believe they came away with that back in the 80s.
02:14:50
Speaker
But in the original anime, they all, so it was a stylistic choice for them to do it just to her in the... But that's the point I'm making, right? No, that was a question, not a statement. I think so. I mean, it was almost a rhetorical question. No one else has the white eyes. But they do in the anime.
02:15:09
Speaker
Everyone does in anime. Yeah. So, so everyone looks anime in anime. They've all got the white eyes. In the movie, even the, the cyber, the cyborgs, the, the, no matter how fucking removed from the original humanoid characters they are.
James Cameron & Films
02:15:25
Speaker
Ajax is in this too, isn't he? Yep. Yes, he is. No matter how far removed from the original humanoid forms, their human faces are human.
02:15:38
Speaker
Even to the point where it looks like you've got an actor's face that's been cut out and glued onto the skin that's wrapped around a cyborg and that's literally one of the characters. Yes. Yeah, that's exactly right. And yet, she is the only one that doesn't look human.
02:15:55
Speaker
that plays a humanoid cyborg that doesn't look quite human. It was just a bizarre choice. I think they did it because they could and no other reason. That's like I said, James Cameron. James Cameron did it because he thought it would look cool. He has come back out of nowhere.
02:16:14
Speaker
What has he done recently before that? He's been working on Avatar for years, man. Then he sold it at the last minute and he's never going to make it now. No, they're making Avatar too. They're making like four. He's going to make it. Didn't he sell the rights? Wasn't the fucking...
02:16:34
Speaker
I don't think he needs to sell the rides. The man has so much money. I mean, he's part of, it's part of Fox. So Disney bought it, but they're still going to make it. James Cameron is still going to direct it. Yeah. It's what I, what I understand. Okay. We ending this or what? Eventually. Yeah. Yeah. I think we will. Do you have anything to add? You look like you're ready for bed. Yeah. I am a bit tired and you're not the one drinking.
Fast and Furious & Riddick
02:17:00
Speaker
Yeah. Um, so the only thing I kind of want to add is I saw Hobbs and Shaw on the weekend, speaking of political correctness. Um, I don't know where that, I don't know where that's going either. Yeah. Well, it's very, very testable. We were talking about best actor, best actress. There's no, there's nothing more masculine than a Fast and Furious movie. Um,
02:17:22
Speaker
I've seen, I've seen one, two, I haven't seen two. I've seen Tokyo drift. That's three. I've seen one Tokyo drift and like five. And that's it. Five. So we only watch as the odd numbered movies. Five is the best. I gotta, I gotta watch seven and then I'm clear. Five is the best one.
02:17:44
Speaker
It must have been five I watched them because it was not the best one. They're so forgettable. I don't know what the five one is. Five was the first one with the rock in it.
02:17:53
Speaker
No, that wasn't the one I watched. It must have been four. Four was shit. You don't watch it. Yeah, no, it was fucking terrible. Five was awesome. Michelle Rodriguez died in... Yeah, that's four. That's a terrible one. So five is set in Brazil and it's basically Ocean's Eleven in Brazil. It's so good. It's one of the best action films I've ever seen. You know, I can't think of Fast and Furious without thinking of the remake of Point Break.
02:18:18
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Well, I have no idea. Is basically point break with cars.
02:18:23
Speaker
without Keanu Reeves. The original was, yes. Without Keanu Reeves. So I stepped on a stick out there, mate. What? Oh. Come on. Not the remake. So what I love about this series is that it goes for it. It knows that it doesn't take itself seriously at all. It's the ninth movie. So find me another Hollywood series that has made nine movies. So where did it go off the rails? Did it go off the rails at five?
02:18:52
Speaker
where it didn't take itself seriously. Cause four was pretty serious. So five is almost, is like a happy medium between going off the rails and taking yourself seriously. And I think that's, I think that that movie is where they found the perfect middle ground. Is that the one with Statham in it? No. Statham's in, he's right at the end of six and he's in seven. He's the main bad guy in seven. That's the last one I watched seven. So there's eight and then eight is the one with Charlie Seron. I haven't seen eight.
02:19:20
Speaker
It's not that good. I can't believe we're talking about the eighth movie in a sequence though. Like that's impressive. No, it's an impressive series, but yeah. Hobbs and Shaw? Hobbs and Shaw. I enjoyed it. Those two have good chemistry together. Yeah. They are fun. But they seem like outside of a movie that actually seem like fun guys.
02:19:43
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's interesting that they got like the two most charismatic people in that series and said, maybe we're going to put you in a movie together. It was a good call. I thought. And they're making another Fast and Furious too. Apparently Vin Diesel's like working out and he looks fucking amazing for it. Yeah. Fast and Furious 9 is coming. I've got to say I rate Vin Diesel as an actor. He's all right. I just think
02:20:12
Speaker
Yeah, I'm too drunk. He's alright when he doesn't. That's the end of the night folks, thanks for listening. He's alright when he doesn't talk much. Like, pitch black? Very good. Pitch black, yeah. Pitch black? Pitch black is fucking awesome. I enjoyed that. They should have done more with that. Riddick was terrible. Chronicles of Riddick. Chronicles of Riddick was great. Riddick was terrible. I agree. Well, Chronicles of Riddick was B grade great. It was almost a Stargate revival movie. What?
02:20:40
Speaker
It was, there was a lot of Egyptian mythology kind of folded into, was it Chronicles where they were in spaceships and I don't remember which is which anymore. Chronicles of Riddick, when you will, Pitch Black had Claudia Black in it. So that was, she was in Stargate. That was shot in Melbourne. That was like a $3 movie. Chronicles of Riddick was Carl Urban and the Necromungus. And Tandy Newton.
02:21:06
Speaker
Danny Newton. Yes. She was in it. She was. I think Judi Dench was in it as well. She was Judi Dench. Judi Dench was an elemental. Vin Diesel pulled out all the stops. Yeah. Judi Dench. Uh, and that's where we got introduced to the Furions. Yeah. And it was announced that he was a Furion. Yes. And then right at the end, he's like king of them all. Yeah. He was, you keep, you keep what you kill. What's not based on a book series? No, I don't think so. I think this was all out. It's just Vin Diesel's baby.
02:21:35
Speaker
Yeah. So he got, he got the rights to Riddick because of his soul. Like something about he would be in another Fast and the Furious if he got the rights to Riddick.
02:21:45
Speaker
Yeah, I remember that story. He made the deal there and which seems ridiculous because Riddick, the actual Riddick movie was terrible. And that just, that went way too far and it was, it was bad, but I mean, the world they built was so good, but... They could have done way more.
Final Thoughts & Farewell
02:22:01
Speaker
Anyway, I agree. I think we're going to end the episode there. Yeah. Oh, ended on a high. Fast and the Furious and Riddick.
02:22:09
Speaker
Thanks for listening, folks. And once again, if you're going to go back and listen to the back catalogue, please start with pixels and pints, not bounty hunter banter. Start backwards. Top down. Just start with season two. And then if you're still keen by the time you caught up to the current episode, go back and watch and listen to bounty hunter banter. And do us a favor and like us on iTunes. Give us a five-star review. Tell us what you think. Even if you think we're a bunch of ill-informed assholes, you should tell us.
02:22:37
Speaker
Thanks for listening. I'm keen to say what people thought of my DC universe. Yeah, no, I'm super keen to. Definitely give us some feedback on that. We need to push that hard. We need some feedback on that. That's definitely Instagram and Facebook. Facebook. Facebook. Facebook. Yeah, I'm going to have another Imperial Stout now. Bye. Peace out. See ya. Bye.
02:23:18
Speaker
You said it was a bit low? Oh no, I'm in two. So glasses, glasses help. Blue is two, that is me, sorry. How's that? Too loud. Right. How's that? Too low. Okay, Goldilocks, how's that? Okay, that's all right. Okay.