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The Beatles as Painters
20 Plays1 year ago
In the summer of 1966 the Beatles were in Japan, whirling through the first leg of what would be their final world tour. Hoping to forestall the dangerous excesses of Beatlemania, Japanese authorities confined the Fab Four to their hotel suite at Tokyo’s Hilton Hotel for almost the duration of their one-hundred-hour stay. Casting about for things to do, the Beatles fell to painting: each took upon himself to design one quadrant of an acrylic-and-watercolor artwork known as Images of a Woman, currently on offer from Christie’s as part of the auction house’s annual Exceptional Sale. The painting offers a novel look inside the collaborative practice of John, Paul, George, and Ringo, a story that Casey Rogers, senior vice president at Christie’s, elaborates on in this week's episode.
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Transcript
The Beatles' Confinement in Tokyo
00:00:10
Speaker
Hello, and welcome to Curious Objects, brought to you by the magazine Antiques.
00:00:13
Speaker
I'm Ben Miller.
00:00:15
Speaker
In the summer of 1966, a fairly well-known band called The Beatles went on tour in Japan.
00:00:22
Speaker
And for five days, they stayed at the Tokyo Hilton Presidential Suite, where they were effectively prisoners.
00:00:28
Speaker
The Japanese authorities were so concerned for their safety that poor John, Paul, Ringo, and George were more or less forbidden from leaving the hotel other than for their concerts.
00:00:38
Speaker
Now, it wasn't the worst prison cell in the world, but the Beatles did have to contend with quite an unfamiliar problem, boredom.
00:00:46
Speaker
Now, they didn't just sit around twiddling their thumbs and watching Japanese soap operas.
00:00:51
Speaker
They put their artistic talents to work in a new medium, paint.
00:00:56
Speaker
Yes, the Fab Four picked up their brushes and created a work of art, which is now being offered at auction at Christie's in their exceptional sale, closing on February 1st.
00:01:07
Speaker
It's called Images of a Woman, and I'm delighted to be partnering with Christie's on this episode to peel back the paint, strictly metaphorically, and see what this piece has to tell us about the lads from Liverpool.
00:01:20
Speaker
Now here to do that with me is Christie's Senior Vice President Casey Rogers, head of the Exceptional Sale.
Casey Rogers on Beatles' Art and Music
00:01:26
Speaker
And Casey, we have a lot to talk about, but first, are you ready for some rapid-fire questions?
00:01:33
Speaker
I sure am, Ben, and thank you so much for having me.
00:01:36
Speaker
I'm really excited to really dive into this piece and other questions.
00:01:40
Speaker
Well, let's get straight to it.
00:01:42
Speaker
What is the most underrated Beatles song?
00:01:45
Speaker
We are jumping right into it.
00:01:48
Speaker
Well, look, I am certainly not an expert of the deep tracks for the Beatles.
00:01:56
Speaker
I certainly know what I like, what I don't like.
00:01:59
Speaker
I have...
00:02:00
Speaker
A little son who loves certain songs and we listen to them on repeat.
00:02:04
Speaker
So I'll give a shout out to Yellow Submarine there.
00:02:07
Speaker
But interestingly, while while preparing for this, I had some really great conversations around their catalog.
00:02:15
Speaker
So, look, overrated.
00:02:19
Speaker
I think that we all hear it ad nauseum.
00:02:21
Speaker
It's not even theirs.
00:02:22
Speaker
It's a cover.
00:02:23
Speaker
It's twist and shout.
00:02:25
Speaker
It's for a good bit of dancing at a wedding, but I don't think it's necessarily indicative of what their deep, deep talents were, but a bit of fun.
00:02:36
Speaker
I personally love, you know, Here Comes the Sun.
00:02:39
Speaker
I think it's when George is getting into the meat of his
00:02:44
Speaker
of his own sort of identity and songwriting.
00:02:47
Speaker
And it's just a beautiful song.
00:02:49
Speaker
And that's sort of later in the career for the band.
00:02:52
Speaker
And I love the song Blackbird.
00:02:54
Speaker
You know, it sits on a lullaby mix for my son every evening.
00:02:59
Speaker
So, you know, it's on repeat with us at home.
00:03:02
Speaker
Excellent.
00:03:02
Speaker
So we got overrated and underrated there.
Significant Auctions Discussed by Casey Rogers
00:03:05
Speaker
I want to ask what it's like to play on Les Paul's guitar.
00:03:12
Speaker
I am sadly not a musician.
00:03:16
Speaker
I gave it a good strum just so I could say it.
00:03:19
Speaker
But we did have that fantastic prototype here at auction with us to play sort of the first Les Paul was a real joy.
00:03:28
Speaker
Such a unique performance.
00:03:30
Speaker
moment in my auction career.
00:03:32
Speaker
I have colleagues who are far better musicians than myself.
00:03:36
Speaker
And we got to see our consultant, Kerry Keene, play it for CBS Sunday morning.
00:03:41
Speaker
So he gave it a good go.
00:03:43
Speaker
What's the first object or artwork that you remember falling in love with?
00:03:49
Speaker
Oh, this I feel like is the journey for so many in the art world.
00:03:55
Speaker
And it almost feels a bit cliche, but, you know, I certainly was first struck by the impressionists.
00:04:03
Speaker
I am from the Philadelphia area.
00:04:07
Speaker
I remember there being sort of a retrospective show on at the PMA.
00:04:14
Speaker
It was water lilies.
00:04:15
Speaker
It was all those other wonderful canvases that were on.
00:04:18
Speaker
on view there.
00:04:19
Speaker
I'm sure my mom and dad dragged me and my brothers and sisters off to see what was going on.
00:04:25
Speaker
And the posters stayed in my room for a very, very long time.
00:04:29
Speaker
So, you know, I stared upon them nearly every evening.
00:04:34
Speaker
Fantastic.
00:04:35
Speaker
What is the most valuable object or artwork that you've ever physically touched?
00:04:41
Speaker
physically touched and I will say also cleaned as we had back in 2016 for the exceptional sale as well a pair of 13 foot tall Baccarat tour shares they were called the czar's candelabra and they were created by the the crystal house Baccarat in the late 19th century but they were they came to us
00:05:09
Speaker
Covered in dust in over 700 pieces.
00:05:12
Speaker
They were the property of Warner Brothers Studios.
00:05:17
Speaker
So they had this fantastic sort of...
00:05:21
Speaker
You know, Hollywood connection.
00:05:23
Speaker
They had greased the screen with Judy Garland in A Star is Born, that fabulous scene where she has all of that sort of embarrassment at the Oscar ceremony.
00:05:35
Speaker
They're there in the background, but I happened to see them in the prop house.
00:05:39
Speaker
In all their glory, they came to us and we had to clean every last crystal to get them gleaming.
00:05:46
Speaker
So they're really spectacular in person.
00:05:48
Speaker
They were towering.
00:05:50
Speaker
And we finally sold them for $1.6 million.
00:05:54
Speaker
That was highlight of my career in the 19th century decorative arts here.
00:05:59
Speaker
Which Beatle would you invite over for dinner?
00:06:01
Speaker
And what would you talk about?
Choosing a Beatle for Dinner: Casey's Dilemma
00:06:04
Speaker
My gosh, I find it like trying to pick one of your favorite children.
00:06:09
Speaker
I think that each of the members was so incredibly influential in their own right as a collective band, as individual artists.
00:06:18
Speaker
I think about actually how Christie's had recently done via our photographs department this incredible interview with Sir Paul McCartney.
00:06:25
Speaker
So certainly interesting.
00:06:26
Speaker
He's been top of mind.
00:06:27
Speaker
He was just showing his own photography during an exhibition at the end of last year, back in September, at the National Portrait Gallery.
00:06:38
Speaker
Much of it, images taken during their tours, during their time together.
00:06:43
Speaker
There was even some early selfie work, as I'd like to call it.
00:06:46
Speaker
So we had a really great opportunity to speak with him.
00:06:49
Speaker
What's a mistake that you've made in the art or deck of arts area that you perhaps learned something from?
00:06:56
Speaker
Well, I think that this business is such an incredible journey.
00:07:01
Speaker
We get to see so much come through the galleries here, but we often see things that haven't come through the galleries here.
00:07:08
Speaker
And I find myself thinking about the objects we've not been able to handle and touch and sort of see for that short time that we do for an auction.
00:07:18
Speaker
So there's often things that are the ones that get away.
00:07:22
Speaker
And, you know, there's enough...
00:07:24
Speaker
room for everybody in the market, but there's wonderful things all over and we'd love to be able to offer them all.
00:07:30
Speaker
But sadly, there are items that don't end up gracing the galleries at Christie's, but are important and beautiful and just spectacular nonetheless.
00:07:40
Speaker
What was the last object that you saw or artwork that sent chills down your spine?
00:07:47
Speaker
It's an easy one because we're a little bit on the topic because it's, you know, we see really wonderful out-of-the-box lots that come across our desk for the exceptional sale.
00:08:00
Speaker
And, you know, one day it might be Josephine's Tabaret, which are also in the sale.
00:08:06
Speaker
But it's also a piece of incredible memorabilia, artwork such as this.
00:08:10
Speaker
I was shown this.
00:08:13
Speaker
by a fabulous consultant that we work with and immediately it just, I knew it'd be a showstopper and I said, you know, it's something we absolutely need to have.
00:08:22
Speaker
We have to tell the story.
00:08:24
Speaker
I'm not sure that necessarily everybody's so aware of this existing of sort of what it means as sort of a time capsule in the career of the Beatles and what an opportunity to tell the story.
00:08:38
Speaker
Okay, well, so let's talk about this amazing piece of music history.
Viewing 'Images of a Woman' at Christie's
00:08:42
Speaker
And listeners, if you'd like to see it, which I think you would, we have images online at themagazineantiques.com slash podcast.
00:08:51
Speaker
And it goes without saying on christies.com.
00:08:54
Speaker
If you look there for the exceptional sale on February 1st in New York.
00:09:00
Speaker
And by the way, Casey, this episode is releasing on January 24th.
00:09:05
Speaker
Do listeners still have time to come see the painting in person?
00:09:08
Speaker
They absolutely do.
00:09:10
Speaker
Our exhibition will open up on Friday here at Rockefeller Center.
00:09:13
Speaker
So I really encourage everybody to come on in and have a look around.
00:09:17
Speaker
Also have a look around at all of the fantastic sales that are on for Classic Week from Old Masters to Antiquities.
00:09:25
Speaker
It really is happening all at this time and the galleries are full.
00:09:32
Speaker
And if you're enjoying the podcast and you'd like to help us out, that is both very easy to do and it is very much appreciated.
00:09:40
Speaker
You can leave us a rating and maybe even write a little review about what you like about Curious Objects.
00:09:47
Speaker
And if you're thinking, you know, I'm not really a review writing kind of person, I get it.
00:09:53
Speaker
I have that feeling myself, but I can't tell you how easy it is to do and how grateful I will be.
00:10:00
Speaker
And hey, maybe I'll even read your review on the air like Amanda's who really enjoyed our recent episode about jewelry with Gem X and said, quote, I appreciated hearing the reverence about certain objects and their place in the history of the wearer's life.
00:10:15
Speaker
I will be looking at pieces in my life with new eyes and with a greater understanding.
00:10:20
Speaker
which I think is really wonderful.
00:10:22
Speaker
Thank you, Amanda.
00:10:23
Speaker
And thanks to everyone who's taken a second to tell a friend about Curious Objects or just to let me know what you think.
00:10:29
Speaker
You reach me on Instagram at Objective Interest and via email at CuriousObjectsPodcast at gmail.com.
00:10:38
Speaker
And it really warms my heart.
00:10:42
Speaker
All right, Casey, should we talk about the greatest band of all time?
00:10:46
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:10:47
Speaker
Let's get into it.
00:10:48
Speaker
Okay, so let's start from the beginning.
Security Concerns During the Japan Tour
00:10:50
Speaker
Why were the Beatles trapped in their hotel room in Tokyo?
00:10:53
Speaker
You set the stage so well, Ben, with your intro, which is that the Beatles were on one of the legs of their final world tours.
00:11:03
Speaker
It's the late spring, summer of 1966, visiting three countries.
00:11:09
Speaker
They're going from Germany to Japan and then on to the Philippines from there.
00:11:16
Speaker
This schedule had them touching down in Tokyo on June 27th, and they were booked to play at least two shows a day, I believe.
00:11:23
Speaker
at Budokan Hall.
00:11:24
Speaker
So there they were ready to jump into this leg of the tour.
00:11:30
Speaker
And there were serious security concerns, which came to fruition, actually, on the next leg in the Philippines.
00:11:38
Speaker
But what were they worried about in Japan?
00:11:41
Speaker
I think that we've all seen the photos, the scenes, the video, which is that the band was
00:11:49
Speaker
Absolutely thrashed by fans.
00:11:52
Speaker
The mayhem that would unfold at their arrival on these legs of the tour.
00:11:58
Speaker
I mean, this is absolutely its peak Beatlemania, right?
00:12:02
Speaker
This is peak Beatlemania.
00:12:04
Speaker
It's the screaming fans.
00:12:05
Speaker
It's the teenage girls.
00:12:08
Speaker
It's the tearing of the hair.
00:12:10
Speaker
It's all happening.
00:12:11
Speaker
And of course, I think that their tour leg in Japan, those authorities had absolutely seen this all unfolding in real time.
00:12:21
Speaker
previous to arriving in Japan, and there was a really sort of keen sense of making this unfold perfectly with the greatest level of crowd control that they needed to keep order.
00:12:35
Speaker
And they had also been the subject of death threats ahead of this as well during their Hamburg leg of the tour.
00:12:44
Speaker
Those death threats had been received ahead of their arrival, and those stemmed from the announcement that the concerts were going to take place at the Budokan.
00:12:54
Speaker
It was a venue that was reserved for martial arts.
00:12:57
Speaker
It was as well a shrine to Japan's war dead, particularly at a time that's
00:13:04
Speaker
only two and a half decades after the end of World War II.
00:13:08
Speaker
So there's certainly this idea that they want to show the new Japan, having the Beatles come play.
00:13:17
Speaker
But there were hardline nationalists who were not happy with the playing of the concerts at that venue.
00:13:23
Speaker
And they were receiving these death threats ahead of their concerts.
00:13:26
Speaker
So security was very tight and and tense, but extremely well planned.
00:13:32
Speaker
Even Robert Whitaker, who was the tour photographer, said how elegantly put together this part of the tour was.
00:13:40
Speaker
And as we know, you mentioned it, Ben, you know, the next leg was none was not easy in the Philippines.
00:13:45
Speaker
And they were quite vocal about it as well.
00:13:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:48
Speaker
Can you just tell us what exactly happened in the Philippines?
00:13:53
Speaker
Well, there was certainly their arrivals were delayed.
00:13:58
Speaker
They were detained.
00:14:00
Speaker
They were detained at sea.
00:14:02
Speaker
There was a famous snub of the first family, the Marcos.
00:14:08
Speaker
So it had really been sort of
00:14:12
Speaker
a tale of two tours in a way between their visits in Japan and then onward to the Philippines.
00:14:19
Speaker
And of course, the band went on TV upon their return in the UK to say just how pleasant the latter part of the tour had been, unfortunately.
00:14:30
Speaker
Okay, so they're in Tokyo.
00:14:32
Speaker
They're being confined to quarters for their own safety.
00:14:36
Speaker
It's for their own good.
00:14:37
Speaker
And they are in the continental suite at the Tokyo Hilton.
00:14:45
Speaker
And who is in the hotel room with them?
00:14:49
Speaker
Sure.
00:14:50
Speaker
Yeah, they're there with their manager, Brian Epstein.
00:14:53
Speaker
He'd been with the band since its inception.
00:14:55
Speaker
He would actually die the next year, unfortunately.
00:14:58
Speaker
There are tour promoters.
00:15:01
Speaker
There are members of the fan club coming and going.
00:15:05
Speaker
There are people bringing gifts, but most importantly is the tour photographer who I mentioned, Robert Whitaker, who was capturing much of what was happening during those 100 hours under lockdown in the Tokyo Hilton.
00:15:19
Speaker
So it's really his experience.
00:15:22
Speaker
capturing of the scene and relaying those moments that were able to really understand how this piece was created.
00:15:33
Speaker
And we're really lucky to have those photographs still survive.
00:15:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:37
Speaker
So, I mean, what do you think the mood was like in this hotel suite?
00:15:42
Speaker
It sounds like it was actually pretty active, but of course they're, they're stuck there for a long time with maybe, you know, not all that much freedom to do what they wanted.
00:15:51
Speaker
Exactly.
00:15:52
Speaker
I mean, we all know what a bit of lockdown feels like now.
00:15:57
Speaker
And I would like to say that I wish I had been able to produce something as lovely and beautiful as this, but I didn't.
00:16:07
Speaker
But it's
00:16:08
Speaker
You know, they're together, they're in confined quarters.
00:16:11
Speaker
You would think it might be tense, but I wonder if it wasn't a bit of relief.
00:16:16
Speaker
It was respite given the mayhem, the chaos of the previous leg.
00:16:22
Speaker
So to be a fly on the wall would be amazing to know exactly what the mood was like.
00:16:27
Speaker
But I find that maybe, maybe they were happy.
00:16:30
Speaker
Maybe they were quite pleased to have the downtime and to work on something creative.
00:16:34
Speaker
That certainly could have been the case.
00:16:36
Speaker
Right.
00:16:37
Speaker
And so they did decide to work on something creative that was not musical, but to start painting.
00:16:43
Speaker
How did that come about?
00:16:44
Speaker
I mean, whose idea was it?
00:16:45
Speaker
And where did they even get the materials from?
Creation of 'Images of a Woman'
00:16:50
Speaker
The folklore around this particular painting is that it was very likely a concert promoter who may have drummed up the idea to find a bit of a fun way, something to do for the fans, something to work on to possibly give to the fans.
00:17:09
Speaker
They decided to bring in some paints, acrylics, watercolors, smart paper.
00:17:17
Speaker
And they thought that maybe by doing a joint project, they could then give it as a gift or sell it for charity.
00:17:24
Speaker
So a few ideas were batted around in terms of what they might do to kill the time.
00:17:28
Speaker
And so...
00:17:30
Speaker
They did this large piece.
00:17:32
Speaker
There were also some smaller pieces that were done potentially individually, but nothing along the same scale or collectively done by all four of them as this piece is.
00:17:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:44
Speaker
And so, I mean, looking at this painting, to me, it looks in a lot of ways like a fairly typical 1960s abstract expressionist painting, but it has this title, Images of a Woman, which
00:17:58
Speaker
I have to admit, I'm not really seeing it.
00:18:01
Speaker
And I would love if you could tell me where that title comes from.
00:18:04
Speaker
Where are the women in this picture?
00:18:07
Speaker
Or just for listeners who aren't looking at it right now.
00:18:09
Speaker
I mean, what does this painting actually look like?
00:18:12
Speaker
What's going on in it?
00:18:15
Speaker
Yeah, but I couldn't agree more.
00:18:17
Speaker
It certainly does look completely abstract, but it's also immediately psychedelic as well, which is very sort of telling of the time in which it was created.
00:18:26
Speaker
But I do recommend for those listeners who haven't looked at it already to go look on the website to see it from anywhere.
00:18:33
Speaker
Each quadrant, in a way, you can certainly tell it's four different hands, as it should be.
00:18:38
Speaker
But, you know, you have four quadrants done, and each beetle has signed the center of the painting, which is actually a perfect circle and bare to the paper beneath.
00:18:53
Speaker
because they were arranged around a porcelain lamp which sat at the middle of the paper itself.
00:19:00
Speaker
And they sat in a dark room under a bit of cigarette haze and smoke and painted each of their quadrants.
00:19:09
Speaker
So when they removed the lamp, they were able to then sign the center of the paper adjacent to their artwork.
00:19:15
Speaker
But
00:19:16
Speaker
There's sort of negative space filled with vibrant oranges and pinks and purples and blues.
00:19:25
Speaker
You get to George's quadrant and it's a little bit more muted, some neutrals.
00:19:30
Speaker
So it's a real juxtaposition of different styles for each of them.
00:19:35
Speaker
the band members, but images of a woman, it's a title that came to it actually quite a bit later in its ownership during probably just around the eighties, nineties, where sort of the Japanese media picked up on the painting potentially coming to sale.
00:19:55
Speaker
And it had been dubbed with this title as a,
00:20:00
Speaker
Many believe that Paul's bit of the picture might resemble the female anatomy.
00:20:07
Speaker
So to put it quite delicately, but, you know, I have to say that, you know, there might be something to be said for Ringo's or even George's quadrant.
00:20:15
Speaker
There's certainly, if you look at it from a certain angle, you might make out a face, but it's a bit subjective, isn't it?
00:20:23
Speaker
Interesting.
00:20:23
Speaker
Okay, well, I'm glad I'm not totally crazy.
00:20:26
Speaker
But I wonder how looking at this painting, how you would evaluate the Beatles skill as painters.
00:20:34
Speaker
You mentioned that Paul actually went to art school and didn't John study art a bit as well?
00:20:42
Speaker
They both did and made it quite far into A-levels, were really talented.
00:20:47
Speaker
But I think you could say that of all four, they were without a doubt born talented.
00:20:53
Speaker
But it seems as though Paul and John both worked at it and really did explore fine art in a certain extent.
00:21:01
Speaker
And that's on display here.
00:21:03
Speaker
So there's...
00:21:05
Speaker
There's certainly some, I can't speak necessarily to talented, not talented, but I think there's a real point of view and there's, you know, just beautiful colors and forms and shapes and something to be seen in it.
00:21:17
Speaker
And I mean, would you say that the style of the painting or the subject matter relates somehow to their music?
00:21:25
Speaker
Do you see any kind of connection there aesthetically between what they were creating musically and what they put down on the paper?
00:21:34
Speaker
so.
Painting Reflects Beatles' Experimental Phase
00:21:35
Speaker
I think that this is a really important moment in their music evolution and their journey.
00:21:45
Speaker
What's really interesting about sort of this session, as we're calling it, the 100 Hours and Lockdown in Tokyo, is that they were actually probably listening to, if not ordering, the sequence of the songs on their forthcoming
00:22:04
Speaker
album, which was called Revolver.
00:22:07
Speaker
It was definitely the most different of all of their albums.
00:22:10
Speaker
They were really coming along in terms of point of view, really experimenting with a lot of different sounds.
00:22:18
Speaker
George specifically was really influenced by Indian music.
00:22:22
Speaker
He's sort of experimenting with the sitar,
00:22:27
Speaker
They're also really sort of moving into psychedelics.
00:22:33
Speaker
I can say that for John and George because there's certainly a bit of backstory there to a year before this in which they've started to think about psychedelics and that is an experimenting with it.
00:22:45
Speaker
And, you know, that might be reflected here.
00:22:48
Speaker
It's certainly stylistically moving in that direction.
00:22:52
Speaker
Wait, do you think they were on psychedelics in the hotel room?
00:22:56
Speaker
I can't say one way or another.
00:22:57
Speaker
We do see from Robert's photographs that they're smoking, they're enjoying a drink, they're sort of huddled around this wonderful picture being as creative as they possibly can.
00:23:11
Speaker
And there's a few photos which I think are fantastic because you can see the reflection in the lamp at the center of the work coming along and really sort of becoming a cohesive work.
00:23:24
Speaker
Interesting.
00:23:27
Speaker
Okay.
00:23:27
Speaker
I wonder where they might have gotten LSD in Tokyo when they were stuck in their hotel room.
00:23:35
Speaker
You've mentioned a few times now these photographs by Robert Whitaker.
00:23:40
Speaker
And I wonder if we could talk about that a little more, because part of what's so fascinating about this painting is that we have the visual documentation of exactly how it was done.
00:23:50
Speaker
I mean, you can see them sitting around, you know, leaning over the paper at work, making this thing.
00:23:55
Speaker
And then when you look at the painting, I mean, it really brings it to life.
00:24:00
Speaker
It makes us feel so connected to that moment of creation.
00:24:05
Speaker
What, you know, what was he really trying to do there?
00:24:09
Speaker
What kinds of photographs was he taking?
00:24:12
Speaker
And what was the purpose of all of that?
00:24:15
Speaker
Right.
00:24:15
Speaker
He'd been hired to document the final tours.
00:24:19
Speaker
So certainly this being really a time capsule moment during that time.
00:24:25
Speaker
And then, of course, we have onward through to the U.S. tours as well.
00:24:28
Speaker
But, you know, these these images are quite different than many of the images that are published in his book, Eight Days a Week, which was about those final tour days.
00:24:39
Speaker
These are
00:24:40
Speaker
really intimate.
00:24:41
Speaker
They're dark, they're moody.
00:24:43
Speaker
I mentioned before they feel a bit fuzzy, they're through a bit of sort of cigarette smoke.
00:24:48
Speaker
They're wonderfully atmospheric, but they're capturing the mood.
00:24:54
Speaker
I almost...
00:24:56
Speaker
You can tell they might have a soundtrack because you do think about them listening to their music, what's coming down the line in terms of their albums.
00:25:06
Speaker
You have to think about, you know, what do those tracks sound like?
00:25:09
Speaker
It's Yellow Submarine, it's Eleanor Rigsby.
00:25:12
Speaker
The painting has a soundtrack and Robert Whitaker's imagery just reinforces that so much more.
00:25:23
Speaker
So he was also a firsthand observer.
00:25:24
Speaker
He was there in the rooms listening as would a fly on the wall.
00:25:29
Speaker
He is sort of in an interview in 2016, he said that they were really excited to come back to the painting actually during this time that they would go out to play their play.
00:25:41
Speaker
shows and say, you know, when they were done, well, let's get back to the painting already.
00:25:46
Speaker
So they're really, I think, quite excited to get back and have that release again and to sort of be working on this really creatively.
00:25:55
Speaker
Wow, that's so interesting.
00:25:56
Speaker
And one thing I love about these pictures is you can actually see the lamp that they've set in the center of the paper.
00:26:03
Speaker
I guess it was too dark in the hotel room or something.
00:26:07
Speaker
And so they placed this lamp with a circular base right in the center.
00:26:14
Speaker
And when you look at the painting, you can see now that's just a blank white disc where they've signed their names and it looks a bit like a bass drum or an LP or something.
00:26:24
Speaker
Exactly.
00:26:26
Speaker
I love that you think it looks like an LP.
00:26:27
Speaker
It would have worked perfectly as that.
00:26:31
Speaker
So absolutely.
00:26:34
Speaker
So it does.
00:26:35
Speaker
Those images really show the creative process here.
00:26:39
Speaker
You can imagine that lamp being lifted off at the last moment and the paint drying and then each of them coming into sign before this was then gifted to the president of the fan club.
00:26:51
Speaker
I wonder what happened to that lamp.
00:26:54
Speaker
That's a whole nother podcast.
00:26:57
Speaker
Well, yeah, whoever has that, get in touch with Christie's.
Significance and Value of the Painting
00:27:02
Speaker
So the painting is signed there in the middle by all four Beatles.
00:27:07
Speaker
And I, you know, I just wonder how rare it is to find memorabilia like this, which features all four of them, you know, involved in the same in the same object.
00:27:20
Speaker
Right.
00:27:20
Speaker
I think that we certainly have seen instances of signed memorabilia, certainly by all four or individually.
00:27:30
Speaker
What I think is really unique about this and sets it apart, of course, is that it is a work of art.
00:27:36
Speaker
It's by the hand of the artist, by the Beatles.
00:27:39
Speaker
So it's a bit different.
00:27:40
Speaker
So it makes it
00:27:43
Speaker
That much more challenging also to understand the pricing positioning for it as well.
00:27:51
Speaker
But we've looked to other instances where they have signed things.
00:27:55
Speaker
You know, Christie's was during our pop and memorabilia sales through the early aughts and into the teens was that we had instances of the Beatles signing, you know,
00:28:07
Speaker
bits of stationery from Buckingham Palace.
00:28:09
Speaker
And those would really excite the market in terms of having all four signatures together.
00:28:17
Speaker
Then you have to, we certainly look at just the memorabilia itself where it might be the drum skin from the Sgt.
00:28:23
Speaker
Pepper's album cover that is so iconic.
00:28:28
Speaker
And we look at that as well from a memorabilia standpoint.
00:28:31
Speaker
So these,
00:28:34
Speaker
these pieces come up and they certainly capture the imagination of both collectors of Beatlemania as well as just sort of fine art collectors hopefully in this case.
00:28:46
Speaker
Well, it's interesting.
00:28:47
Speaker
I mean, it must be a challenging question for you as an auctioneer to try to figure out what kind of estimate to put on a piece like this, which
00:28:56
Speaker
just really doesn't have any direct comparables.
00:28:59
Speaker
And it's obviously like very special and unusual piece, but I can't imagine how you would hope to predict what it, what collectors might think it would be worth spending on.
00:29:12
Speaker
But it's, so you've put an estimate of four to $600,000 on the piece.
00:29:17
Speaker
And I wonder if you could tell me something about how you came to that number.
00:29:21
Speaker
Sure.
00:29:22
Speaker
Again, working with really incredible consultants who have their finger on the pulse of the market as well.
00:29:28
Speaker
So we certainly have partners here at Christie's who are observing trends in the market.
00:29:36
Speaker
And I think that the Beatles remain bankable.
00:29:39
Speaker
I'm sure we could say that from decade after decade as their music is even being reproduced by
00:29:46
Speaker
With the help of AI, even as, you know, as late as last year.
00:29:51
Speaker
So I think that there will be perennial interest in the Beatles.
00:29:58
Speaker
They are the most iconic and most influential musicians, artists.
00:30:03
Speaker
of many lifetimes, we continue to see prices for their memorabilia continue to appreciate over time.
00:30:13
Speaker
So we've been looking at those trends very closely.
00:30:16
Speaker
And generally speaking, music memorabilia is a really exciting space right now.
00:30:22
Speaker
We're seeing it with regard to instruments, again, memorabilia, ephemera from concerts and tours.
00:30:32
Speaker
And we are watching that space really closely.
00:30:34
Speaker
So pricing this, we felt there was precedent for Beatles memorabilia, particularly around the pieces I previously mentioned, signed pieces, the drum skin, etc.
00:30:46
Speaker
So we thought that we could comfortably place the estimate of $400,000 to $600,000 and gain the interest that will hopefully produce the bidders to drive it.
00:30:57
Speaker
to hopefully a really fantastic price.
00:31:01
Speaker
Well, yeah.
00:31:02
Speaker
So talk to me about how you imagine this piece actually fitting into a collection.
00:31:06
Speaker
I mean, because it is so hard to categorize, you know, is it a work of art?
00:31:10
Speaker
Is it a bit of memorabilia?
00:31:12
Speaker
Is it, you know, I mean, it's sort of an essence of the Beatles, I guess.
00:31:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:20
Speaker
It's all of that, isn't it?
00:31:23
Speaker
It's all of that.
00:31:24
Speaker
And so I wonder what kind of collection you might imagine it fitting into.
00:31:29
Speaker
Well, I'd love for it and for it to go into a super fans collection, of course, because they'll appreciate it so much.
00:31:40
Speaker
But I also hope that the fine art collector, somebody who has a great contemporary collection, somebody who might have a great
00:31:50
Speaker
decorative arts collection will see sort of the beauty in it, the value in it, the story behind it, and be inspired by that.
00:31:59
Speaker
And maybe it's a new conversation piece for their collection.
00:32:03
Speaker
I also find that the Beatles themselves, well, they sort of exist outside of collecting categories, perhaps, because they have so much appeal to so many types of collectors as well, given their popularity and just how iconic.
00:32:19
Speaker
their music catalog is.
00:32:21
Speaker
So I hope that they would appeal not only to the Beatles collector, but to those who will just see beauty in it as a work of art.
00:32:30
Speaker
Well, fantastic.
00:32:31
Speaker
Casey Rogers, thank you so much for speaking with me about this and, and, and best of luck with the sale again on, on February 1st.
00:32:39
Speaker
Great.
00:32:39
Speaker
Ben, thank you so much for having me on for taking a deep dive on this piece.
00:32:44
Speaker
And yeah, thank you so much.
00:32:52
Speaker
Today's episode was edited and produced by Sammy Delati with social media and web support by Sarah Bellotta.
00:32:59
Speaker
Sierra Holt is our digital media and editorial associate.
00:33:02
Speaker
Our music is by Trap Rabbit and I'm Ben Miller.