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Ep 40: Leveraging Social Media to Build a Legal Brand: Matt Margolis, Partner, Margolis PLLC
69 Plays8 months ago
Can you leverage a joke-filled social media brand to build your own business? How will the practice of law evolve in the age of AI? Is the billable hour going away?
Matt Margolis, Partner at Margolis PLLC, went from a single funny and relatable LinkedIn post about frustrations at work to growing a massive brand as @ItsMattsLaw across platforms like TikTok, X, and Instagram. Beyond expanding his network, it aided him as he made the leap from in-house to partner at his own law firm, Margolis PLLC.
Hear Matt discuss how he balances social content creation with legal work, starting his own law firm, serving as legal advisor to multiple companies, and how he thinks AI is shaping the future of legal work.
Read detailed summary: https://www.spotdraft.com/podcast/episode-40
Topics:
Introduction: 0:00
Building a major social media presence: 3:01
Managing the demands of content production: 8:59
Leveraging your persona profile to build brand awareness at LawTrades: 12:48
Starting your own legal firm: 14:45
Tracking the evolution of in-house legal roles: 18:17
Leveraging AI at your law firm: 20:47
Advising on community and partnerships at Justice HQ and Attorney Share: 24:11
Recommendations: 26:14
What you wish you had known as a young lawyer: 29:02
Connect with us:
Matt Margolis - https://www.linkedin.com/in/itsmattslaw/
Tyler Finn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tylerhfinn
SpotDraft - https://www.linkedin.com/company/spotdraft
SpotDraft is a leading CLM platform that solves your end-to-end contract management issues. Visit https://www.spotdraft.com to learn more.
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Transcript
AI Adoption in Big Law Firms
00:00:00
Speaker
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00:00:32
Speaker
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Speaker
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Introduction of Guest: Matt Margolis
00:01:19
Speaker
How can you leverage a social media brand to build a business? How is the practice of law going to evolve in an age of AI? Is the billable hour going away? Today we have Matt Margolis, partner at Margolis PLLC, and an advisor to Attorneyshare and Justice HQ, joining us on the abstract.
00:01:41
Speaker
Before founding his own law firm, Matt led legal and community for law trades, and he also had prior experience as an attorney in private practice and for the state of Florida. I'm sure you've also come across his profiles, seen his tweets on TikTok, Instagram, LinkedIn, or X. Matt, thanks so much for joining us today live from clock in Las Vegas. I like that we have like a studio audience today. Yeah, your dad's here. That's so cool.
00:02:09
Speaker
It almost started as a bit, I was like, oh, I should bring my dad to clock, but then I brought my dad to clock. I love it.
Matt's Social Media Journey
00:02:18
Speaker
I guarantee you that if she had the option, and if he had the option, my mom and dad would love to sit here and watch us do a podcast.
00:02:26
Speaker
Listen, it's great. I remember not to go too far. I remember my dad taking me to conferences from his work, whether real estate or insurance. I'm a little kid. I'm running around. I'm getting pens, stuff. I'm pretending like I know what the vendors are doing. I'm like, yeah, a praiser. I know what an appraiser does. And now the roles have really reversed. My dad's with me at this conference. He sees all the vendors, and it's like, it's weird, man.
00:02:52
Speaker
You came home with a lot of cool plushy toys, that sort of thing. Do you have any pens we would have? Just a godly amount of pens. It was awesome. It was awesome. That's great. Speaking of bits, we do want to ask you some questions today about how you built
00:03:07
Speaker
great personal brand on social and we're going to talk also about how it's translated into business opportunities for you. Maybe to get us started, do you actually remember what your first TikTok or was it a real or was it a tweet? How did this whole thing get started? Man, it was like a LinkedIn post. It's a LinkedIn post. Isn't that weird? I feel like we're admitting that.
00:03:29
Speaker
It was like to post, I have to whisper it. So, I remember correctly, as my own personal lore goes, I think I was posting on LinkedIn and it was like, you know, the lawyer stuff. Like, very professional, legal updates, it should be all right. And maybe I saw Alex who posts something or, I don't know what the inspiration was, but like, I was so tired in my office because I think I had a client that just like refused to use contracts. Everything was like, it's a handshake. I'm like, that's frightening.
00:03:59
Speaker
That's scary, right? I look at the camera and I'm like grizzled and disheveled, whether by choice or otherwise. And I'm like sitting there and I go, please, just have a call. Like I was crying as in, please have a contract.
00:04:14
Speaker
And people liked it. And I was like, oh, OK. So humor, but also a little bit of self-deprecating kind of bits. And I did another one, I think, on whiffing it when it comes to filing something with the court. I think it was motion for whatever, but it's motion spelled incorrectly. And you always catch it after, right? Right. People were like, I relate to that. That's very, I misspell everything. I get it. So that's where it started. So it started on LinkedIn.
00:04:40
Speaker
I progressed over to TikTok. Yeah. And then Instagram and then Twitter X, right? It's like this social media octopus where like a new leg forms and then my videos and my content kind of like funnel out through that. But like humble origins are on LinkedIn.
00:04:59
Speaker
Yeah. Did you have any idea at that point that you wanted to build a social media brand or was like, this was just experimentation? Experimentation, yeah. I mean, like, I guess there's like two sides to it, right? Like, yeah, the content itself was fun. I was like, this is cool. People enjoy
Creating Relatable Content
00:05:14
Speaker
it. It's not like I was like, my goal was like, let's market to lawyers, like the most niche thing. I think the goal originally was like, you know, the classically brand building, get exposure. I didn't get a lot of client contact in private practice when they just started, which I get it. I'm sometimes a little annoying.
00:05:28
Speaker
But I thought it had like a dual purpose right like yeah, I can post maybe it'll attract some clients Mm-hmm, but also like this is fun. This is like a it's like a good everything's a bit It's good to share and share in the bit with everybody. Maybe we should ask your dad like are you comedic? Like did you have any like background in comedy? Did you did you think I were like funny growing up? I was like funny growing up
00:05:51
Speaker
He's nodding now. All right, that was really helpful. I'd like to think so. I mean, I like the Yiva, right? I make this joke in the internet all the time that litigation is nothing more than very aggressive community theater with consequences. And it's true, right? Lawyers inherently are very theatrical.
00:06:09
Speaker
Sure. And like, I'll admit it, man. I'm a sucker for the dramatics. So like, I think I was like, I think I'm funny. Yeah. I hope I'm funny, but I'm also like dramatic. I think you're funny. And, and I mean, the other thing is it's, it's amazing to see how there's all these other sort of social media meme accounts and they pick up like your tweets and they'll show up in, I'll be, I'll be looking at, I don't know, like liquidity or something, like a funny, right? You know, like finance account, and there'll be like Matt Margolis tweets in it. So clearly lots of people.
00:06:39
Speaker
across the social media universe, I guess what I'm saying is it resonates beyond gesture, the slightly narrow legal space. That part is always weird. I'll have lawyers flip stuff over, right? Especially tweets. Tweets are the easiest thing to send out to somebody because I can share them on Instagram, on Twitter, on LinkedIn, they'll just disseminate.
00:07:01
Speaker
It's always weird when it's someone that's out of legal. I'll get it sent over and accounting is common because I feel like it's very similar, but it'll be someone and it'll be a dentist and they're like, I get it, man. I'm like, yeah. Yeah. Cool. Maybe I can get a free tooth cleaning out of it. Fingers crossed, man. Dental work's expensive, man.
00:07:21
Speaker
Yeah, but that part is always so weird to me that like the content resonates and with people outside of legal or I'll get people to say this they'll say like I don't understand like the real legal side of the joke, but like Mm-hmm. I feel like I relate to this I feel like you're talking about being anguished, you know in anguish because Someone won't take now or someone or you've got this this thing that's blocking your way and you're just so frustrated by it and
00:07:48
Speaker
And that's something I find interesting is like it'll be a very legal Joke or bit or whatever it is sure and so it's like I Understand enough of the context where I find this funny. There's an emotional resonance Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I'm just I'm a huge fan of the show the office and it's almost like I
00:08:05
Speaker
you know, like the content that you put out or Alex puts out or right, that's funny and poking fun at sort of the mundane aspects or the frustrating aspects of work. It's almost like just like a continuation of what started, I guess, with the office or office space or something like that. That frustration in like white color jobs.
Challenges in Content Creation
00:08:24
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And it's so funny because like, I mean, everyone makes a joke. Like we're keyboard warriors. Like we're behind a computer, like typing away. And it's funny like that we have
00:08:34
Speaker
these these just like all the frustrations are very universal and it all stems from us like sitting in an office sometimes it's this kind of like fakie corporate formalities or the way we address each other or the way we have to act when things are bad and it's just it's it's so funny to me that like
00:08:54
Speaker
We're all in it, and we're like, yeah, man, I hate this too. I love it. I'm really curious about this. Is there a tough side to this content production? You have to put out a lot of content. I mean, a reel, a week, or a couple reels a week, or tweets every couple of days. Do you feel a lot of pressure to generate content, or has it just become very natural to you? Yeah, I'm really curious about that.
00:09:21
Speaker
Yeah, that's a good question. I feel like such a lawyer. It depends. Oh my gosh. It's like a bit within a bit. When it comes to written content, I feel like a lot of it is stream of conscience. For me, it's easy. It's like using Twitter or X or threads or LinkedIn. I can just knock out a thought. Hopefully, it's a good thought, right?
00:09:44
Speaker
We feel like it's funny. Sometimes the people are like, hey, you good? I'm like, let me delete that one. Maybe that one's not good. But it's easy. That's easy. When it comes to videos, it's a production, right? It becomes a whole thing. And there is this side of content creation. I don't want to say it's hard, right? I don't want people to think that I'm like, oh my gosh, being a content creator is this huge job that's worse than anything else. Making these videos take time.
00:10:07
Speaker
And if you want it to be good, you really have to think about the concept, understand that this is relatable, people will
Future of Law: AI and Fractional Support
00:10:13
Speaker
enjoy this. Sometimes you can, like, I'll do videos where I'm in bed, and I'll make a bed, and I'm like, this went way too far for... But for other ones that really I put a lot of time into, it takes a while, it takes its toll.
00:10:25
Speaker
I haven't been able to keep up the frequency that I used to when I was in-house or life obviously, I have a kid, I've got my wife, I've got my firm, but before I could definitely do much more of it, but now maybe a real week or a real every so on and then, because that's a little bit harder and more time intensive and a lot of labor, but those tweets, man, I'm just frantically on my phone, right?
00:10:52
Speaker
It's whatever pops into your head when you wake up in the morning and you're making your coffee. I hope people find this one funny. Well, I do think there might be something a little bit freeing about the fact that you do post pretty frequently on Twitter.
00:11:07
Speaker
not everything has to be a huge winner. I don't have nearly the following you do, but as I post more and more and more on LinkedIn, it's almost like being a salesperson in a sense of being comfortable with rejection here and there.
00:11:24
Speaker
If one post really resonates with people a week and two of them don't resonate quite as much Like I'm still comfortable with that because I still feel like okay we went and we gave we gave people something that hopefully changed how they thought about their jobs or careers or We gave something back. Sure, right and they didn't love the other stuff that we put out. That's okay, right? Like we had we had a win you post for the love of the game, man. I
00:11:49
Speaker
You post for the love of the game. And that's the thing too, right? I think a lot of people get hung up on this. You have people that post, and I think there are a lot of times that social media marketing and branding and business development, you do post with intention. There are things that you do with intention.
00:12:04
Speaker
But a lot of the time, too, it's okay to make a stupid joke. Obviously, you don't want to alienate your audience, and you don't want to be too offensive, and you don't want to create a situation for yourself where you're like, that was a mistake. But I took an Uber with my dad, and the guy had a strobe light going in the Uber, and I'm like, that was an impeccable commitment to the bit. Thank you so much for the Las Vegas strobe light, which this was a lot of fun. That was actually a lot of fun.
00:12:31
Speaker
And I don't think that's going to go anywhere. Do I think that's going to go viral? No. Do I think that's going to elevate my branding for? No. I posted it because there was an Uber driver that had a strobe light. Yeah, you just thought it was fun. That's it, man. So I think that's something that people get hung up on quite too much.
00:12:49
Speaker
When you got hired by Law Trades, I think you helped pave a path that now more people are following of leveraging your personal brand to help them with brand awareness. It's like a demand generation engine for the business, right?
00:13:05
Speaker
I'm curious, you've got a lot of views on the law and how the law is evolving. Do you think that their model of fractional legal support is really the future? Tell us a little
Starting a Law Firm with Social Media Influence
00:13:17
Speaker
bit about why did you join law trades amongst, I'm sure, a bunch of other folks who were courting you at the time. That was so much fun back then. Good times. You ever feel wanted?
00:13:29
Speaker
It was great. I love that model. I love the model. I market myself right now as a fractional general counsel for businesses. It makes sense. This decentralized nature of law where, yes, you always need law firms, but these freelance attorneys
00:13:44
Speaker
Do in crime like I mean the attorneys on these platforms not just lot trees, but all these but are stellar Yes, unbelievable attorneys from a variety of different backgrounds that can do work have great margins because a law firms not taking it their malpractice insurance may be right by the platform or malpractice insurance ultimately isn't that expensive obviously for solo and in this day and age you don't really even get
00:14:09
Speaker
virtual office, maybe your client is providing, if it's an in-house support role, maybe your client is providing the software. It's great, and these people are making great money. On the other side of the equation, whether it be a law firm or a client or a company, whatever, an individual, they're getting the same level of support as like,
00:14:29
Speaker
I don't want to say the firm names. I'm not going to alienate any big well firms name, but Turkland, Dallas. Okay. They're great firm. They're great firm, but you're getting, you're getting the level of support that you would be accustomed to. And you're like, this is incredible. I personally, I utilize rational support my firm and I love it. I love it.
00:14:46
Speaker
Let's talk a little bit about your firm. When you transitioned out of law trades to start it, I'm curious if that was a scary transition. I think a lot of people look at you and you're like, oh, well, he already has this big personal brand. It must have been so easy to do BD. And I'm sure that actually wasn't the case, right? Oh my gosh. It was such a misconception. People were like, oh my gosh. You have this, you're right, this automatic funnel. And no, man. Listen, I'll say this.
00:15:15
Speaker
I'm the funny guy on the internet. Sometimes clients or potential clients maybe don't want the funny lawyer, maybe they want the serious lawyer, the bulldog lawyer, which I'm more of a chihuahua I think at best. Listen, I got to throw a couple of those in there to be humble. I started the practice in like November around Thanksgiving.
00:15:37
Speaker
It was certainly hard. It was hard. It was not easy. It's great for intake. But again, your social media presence and your brand and your image are what you attract. For me, I do attract corporate. I do attract corporate work, and that's great. But my deal cycle and my type of client, it's not going to be like a thousand people see my video and a hundred people call. It's going to be like one out of 10,000 people see a video and call.
00:16:03
Speaker
So it took a second to ramp up and I'm very thankful that I market to attorneys and attorneys are like, you're funny, I have a client that I can't do work for, it seems like that's your, and that was helpful. Super helpful. So over time it is definitely built up and now I'm a little overwhelmed in a good way, right? That's good. But yeah, it was definitely a work up. It wasn't like turn on the lights and all of a sudden I'm like, oh, okay, here's a trillion dollars in business, definitely not.
00:16:30
Speaker
Were there any people as you were making that decision or starting to launch the firm trying to do BD that you felt like really went out of their way to help you or really supported you? What was that experience like of maybe relying a little bit more on the community to help you get going?
00:16:48
Speaker
It was like, it was so helpful. So, I preach this often, right? Like, the community will help you. As long as you give to the community, the community will give back. And like, it almost seems like a platitude at this point, right? Everyone says it, but it was the case. So like, there's a firm, it's called the Franchise Firm down in Boogertone, Florida. And the founding partner had left his firm to start this firm. And he had called me up and he was like, do you do this? Do you do this? And do you do this? Yeah, he goes, I got you. I got you, no worries.
00:17:16
Speaker
Yeah. And just started referring over work and we ended up working together. We still work together in a lot of classes.
Evolving Role of In-house Lawyers
00:17:24
Speaker
And he didn't do that because, oh, like there's some sort of like, he literally just did that to help. And ultimately he's, you know, we both work very well together. The firm, I love the firm. Sure. But he did that because he's like, you help me, I help you.
00:17:38
Speaker
And I know you're good and I know my clients will appreciate you. And it's been stellar. It's been the most helpful thing. And then there's Bob Simon. I'll give a shout out to Bob. Bob is the craziest, most fun person like ever. But Bob at the Simon Law Group is like one of the most helpful people and he mentored me and he helped me get in, which we'll talk about later for Justice HQ and Attorney's Fair.
00:17:59
Speaker
attorneys just reach out and they're like, hey, you know, like you made me laugh from those times that I hated my job. What do you do? Like, what's your practice look like? I wonder if there's any sort of, he's saying this corporate phrase, synergy. Right. But I mean, people reached out. It was crazy. It was absolutely crazy.
00:18:18
Speaker
You think you have a really interesting experience and then I think you have a really interesting sort of vantage or viewpoint on how the legal profession is changing. I'll ask you in a second about, we're here at clock about legal ops, about some of the tech, AI. You've also been an in-house attorney as well.
00:18:35
Speaker
more and more in-house folks are being seen as operators, right? Folks who drive business outcomes. They're not just sitting in the corner and providing some esoteric advice. The Department of No. Yeah, right. How have you seen the importance of having really great in-house help
00:18:54
Speaker
Evolve over time. What did you try to accomplish when you were helping law trades running legal for them? Yeah Yeah, so I guess high level I am seeing the same thing I am seeing in-house lawyers not just be in house lawyers take on multiple hats like classically you'd see maybe like a
00:19:10
Speaker
GC or CLO and maybe chief compliance officer or a regulatory role, but I'm seeing like chief business development officer. I'm seeing, I mean, I was community. I've seen a combination of that. I'm seeing marketing, I'm seeing, which is weird. It's like you're yelling at yourself in the mirror.
00:19:26
Speaker
Don't post that watching you can spam so like it's like buzzwords, but you can fence You sir do privacy. Yeah, but like things like that like you're seeing these you're seeing legal roles stretch out a little bit Yeah, I'm seeing more lawyers sit on boards. I'm seeing more lawyers get chosen as founders as co-founders. Mm-hmm
00:19:48
Speaker
because that's incredibly helpful, especially early, especially with AI where there's all these legal hurdles. I'm definitely seeing lawyers be relied upon much more as like, okay, you get the law, but I think you understand how the law can work in this direction so we can reach this outcome, and it's great. So I am seeing that for myself, a lot of my roles were hybrid roles. When I was in private equity, I was both the director, what was my role? That's a good question.
00:20:16
Speaker
It's the director of legal and director of risk management. And in that role, I was controlling the insurance portfolio. I was assisting with external internal risk. I was doing seminars and whatnot for individuals. And for me, I was like, oh, this is so novel. And then I met a bunch of lawyers and was like, that's not novel. That's actually very common now that people are taking those kinds of roles. So I see a big trend in that direction of lawyers becoming much more of like
00:20:41
Speaker
maybe stretch a little too thin, but like the jack of all trades. Right. Like a true sort of generalist counsel. Yeah. We're here at clock. And so of course the focus is on legal ops, but everyone's talking about AI and tech and how AI is going to change how legal departments run. I'm also curious about if you're leveraging AI at your law firm, if you're starting to see it affect the way that you practice and maybe like a secondary question there is how are other big law firms going to, going to respond?
00:21:09
Speaker
So I am, and I have disclosures. Yeah. No one yell at me. But I do use it from time to time. It's not like I'm using things that, I mean, that's always the biggest concern is privacy. Sure. Or am I losing whatever I'm putting in there? Confidentiality. That's the biggest thing.
00:21:27
Speaker
Am I breaching a privacy issue? So I am using it respectfully, not using client information much more in a general sense. So like research and there's a number of tools out there that I use for that. Presently I use it as a surface level, right? Like is it getting me in the right direction and then it'll put me in a direction and then I'll use traditional tools to get there.
00:21:49
Speaker
I think over time as AI really progresses, it may be a much fuller tool as opposed to like, all right, this is the question, get me, let's see what other questions pop up or where does this lead me to? So I'm definitely using it on a legal research perspective. I don't have a CLM product. I don't have a, I'm not a legal department. I'd love to use one. I mean, that would be
AI Tools Transforming Legal Practice
00:22:09
Speaker
awesome.
00:22:09
Speaker
We can hook you up. You don't say. Thanks, man. But I am using it like that, at least for the law firm. What I am seeing from big law firms is they are getting pushed by their clients, right? Because the thought process being it's going to save time, it's going to save money, especially if you're paying $1,200 an hour.
00:22:30
Speaker
I'll keep the rate, but let's slim down the time a little bit. And what I am seeing is these firms are creating their own proprietary tools, which is really cool. Or they're leveraging tools that are in existence and now we have all these new vendors that are like, yeah, I could do that. I'll service that. So I'm seeing a combination of like big firms creating their own tools and then just like overnight AI tools are just coming out of
00:22:54
Speaker
thin air, and it's really cool. I met a clock today. I met one that was creating lawsuits. It's using an AI tool to create the complaint and get that out, or it'll do the answer, or it'll do discovery. I've met AI tools that are more workflow related, and it'll help your workflow and make sure that things are actually being allocated properly and sent to the right people. It's the coolest thing,
The Future of Billable Hours
00:23:15
Speaker
man. So I see much more of that.
00:23:18
Speaker
This is a little bit of a joke, but I mean, it's accelerated by one. Is the billable hour going away? No, man. And I try to operate outside of it. I still use it for certain things, but I have been doing much more of a flat fee. I like flat fee subscription sometimes. It's a little bit more predictable for people. It's not always the best because sometimes things take longer than the flat fee. Yeah.
00:23:44
Speaker
But do I think it's going to go away? No. Do we think we're going to get really creative? And a lot of firms move away from it, and a lot of clients, much more inclined to use those firms? Yes. Absolutely. Yeah, I tend to think that's right. I mean, that more and more custom agreements or arrangements between firms and clients are going to become commonplace, right? It's flat fee, and then maybe it goes hourly, but it reduced hourly at a certain point. Right. Yeah, or things of
Community and Advisory Roles
00:24:12
Speaker
that nature.
00:24:12
Speaker
You also do a little bit of advisory work on the side, which you referenced earlier, Attorney Share and Justice HQ. Can you tell us a little bit about those companies and how you got into being able to do advisory work for them? I'm not going to shout out Bob Simon anymore.
00:24:28
Speaker
I'm not doing it, Bob. But Bob is one of the founders. Matt Diehlin is another person that we know. He's fantastic. Former general counsel himself for some cool companies in LA. We always get to share war stories, which is super fun. So what they are, there are two sides of one coin, which is the main company. But Justice HQ is a community of plaintiffs' attorneys.
00:24:54
Speaker
which brings support to these attorneys, whether it be events or mentorship or vendor relationships and partnerships. Sure. I love that. I love that because I don't think it's necessarily common with plaintiffs attorneys. Plaintiffs attorneys are very friendly and collegiate with each other by nature. But to find an organization like this where the goal is literally like, let's all sit down and let's talk about the best way to tackle this issue or the best way to handle this. I really enjoy it. So that's what they are.
00:25:22
Speaker
And then attorney share, it's more of like an attorney to attorney marketplace. And it's just a platform where, more like a messaging platform where two attorneys can connect and be like, I have XYZ Matter. And the other attorney is like, okay, I can do it. This is the fee split. And they go do their thing. And they go off and prosper. Because the issue that I've run into myself is attorneys will get referrals and they're like, I don't know what to do with this. I just like text. Can you take this one? And someone's like, no. And you're like, all right, well.
00:25:50
Speaker
Instead of it being everyone texting each other or WhatsApping each other, it's a tech solution. Honestly, that's kind of what it is. It's great because for the client, one, they're not getting bounced around a bunch of places and they could find their attorney that can actually do their matter. It saves everyone time and energy so the matter can be
Connections with Legal Content Creators
00:26:11
Speaker
done. The matter can start and that person can be happy with the resolution that they're looking for. That's great. I've got just a few more questions for you. They better be jokes.
00:26:20
Speaker
Well, back to social media. I know you're friends with other folks who are content creators. Are there others on social that you think, if they like what you're creating, if they find you funny, other people they should follow? I thought you were going to say enemies, which would have been such a funnier question. Do you have any other enemies in the market?
00:26:41
Speaker
I'd be like, all right, listen, let me get the list ready. Um, so other content creators to follow. Yeah. Oh, there's so many, man. Why would you do this to me? So I like, obviously Alex too, we all follow, we all love. Sure. So I love Alex. There's Brittany Leonard, which I'm doing an event with her. Yeah. Coming up this, this week. Former podcast guests. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great episode. That is CC, which is she.
00:27:03
Speaker
Stellar, former big law, writing a book on the subject, highly recommend. Julian Sarafian, who's another former big law. He's new for me. He's great. Oh my gosh, everyone's going to yell at me for this list. There's so many. Paige Sparks, who's an employment attorney. I'll do a rapid fire about that. Sure. Attorney Ryan. Ryan is another employment attorney. There's Ashley Heard, who's manager method. Great HR.
00:27:30
Speaker
Gosh, Scott Oliver, who's an SBA attorney, because that's the thing about the law. There's all these genres of law, and so you have genres of creator. You don't just have funny creator, like explaining creator, whatever. You have funny, but in the niche of SBA lending, or funny in the niche of employment.
00:27:50
Speaker
or serious in the M&A space or whatever. So there's so many of these people to follow. But I'll start with that. If you're not on that list, it's not that I don't love you. It's just I put on the spot. Yeah, I put you on the spot. I'm like shady. I'm like, please don't yell at me for this.
Final Thoughts and Community Importance
00:28:07
Speaker
We can add any of the things that you think afterwards to the show notes. Post-production, we'll throw it in. Exactly.
00:28:14
Speaker
I like to ask this to a lot of my guests. You're super busy, so I don't know if you've had a lot of time to read, but are there any good books that you've read recently that you'd recommend to our audience? This is such a shameless plug for you guys. You just gave me a book. I think it's like What Mommy Does. Yes. We wrote a children's book about what legal ops and in-house lawyers do every day that the attendees at clock could take home and show to their kids, which we thought was cool. I love it.
00:28:43
Speaker
So I, obviously I'm an attorney, my wife is an attorney, my wife is a stellar attorney who's like, to my clients listening, I'm not, I'm still a really good attorney. My wife is an unbelievable attorney. And much better attorney than I am. And I am excited to bring that book home and show it to my kid. I love that. And we'll read it.
00:29:02
Speaker
That's great. I just have one last question for you, Matt. I think this is a good one. And you've had a really interesting career. So I'm curious what you think. If you could look back on your days of being a young lawyer just getting started, what's something that you know now that you wish you'd known back then? When I was a young attorney? When I was in my prime? What is something I wish I knew?
00:29:30
Speaker
It works out. A lot of the time it works out. I think the community thing is also important that giving out to the community, it comes back. Especially I've seen that much more now, but it'll work out. The things that you think are so monumental and important, especially things of status.
00:29:48
Speaker
Yeah, that doesn't matter and the things in your life that matter will work out. I think that's the thing don't worry about Being the shareholder of what did I say? Durkland Ellis? Yeah If I could sue for this, I'm sorry But like that that is important and that's great and that's cool. But like don't worry about that Just worry about what you're doing presently. It'll all work out. I
00:30:13
Speaker
Thank you so much for joining us today, Matt. Live from Las Vegas at clock with our first ever studio audience. I'm like dad's watching, this is so funny. Shout out to my dad. Yeah, this has been great. And to all of our listeners, thanks so much for tuning in and we hope to see you next time. Thanks for tuning in today.
00:30:34
Speaker
If you enjoyed this episode, I'd recommend that you give my interview from earlier in the season with Brittany Leonard, General Counsel at Civics, a listen. We talk about how to build your personal brand on LinkedIn. You can also subscribe so you can get notified as soon as we post a new episode. And if you liked this one, I'd really love to hear your thoughts. So leave a rating or comment. If you'd like to reach out to me or Matt, our LinkedIn profiles are in the description. See you all next week.