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Jumping Higher with Art & Rick of Eastbay
128 Plays3 days ago
This week I am joined by Art and Rick from the legendary company Eastbay. We talk about their first kicks how they got started, working with brands and dominating mail orders. The real goal of the catalog and how it evolved into something we all carried around. How they served two different worlds at the same time. What it means to them to supply athletes around the world. Also we touch on the crazy tech they offered through out the years. Plus a ton more!
Cop The Book of Eastbay: https://bookofeastbay.com/
All proceeds from the sale of the book goes towards the Little Warrior Foundation.
Podcast Linktree: https://linktr.ee/myfirstkicks
Sign up for the Patreon: https://patreon.com/MyFirstKicks
Intro & Outro by Sango: https://www.instagram.com/sango_/
Backing Music by The DoppleGangaz: https://thedoppelgangaz.bandcamp.com/
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Transcript
Early Risks in the Sneaker Business
00:00:00
Speaker
So that shoe wasn't necessarily like the first basketball shoe that they were pushing during that time because they did the whole Air Force series. and um But like, I know such a big gamble. So like the stock, did you just buy half of what the inventory was or like how did that even work? As much as we could afford, you know, and you had you had credit lines and you we bought everything we could.
00:00:28
Speaker
um And then luckily, There were things like the black and red didn't sell well, so they had a lot of backup inventory on it, and we just kept buying as much as we could. um So, hey you got blame we were we were lucky enough to get team colors too, so.
00:00:44
Speaker
You got to blame Jordan for that. Remember when he went on David Letterman? Yes, and he said, this shoe is ugly, and he was like,
Introduction of Guests: Art and Rick
00:00:58
Speaker
What's good everyone? Welcome back to my first case of episode 268 and this week I bring to you another legendary guest legendary guest to the podcast as you know we're not in studio currently we're doing this over the internet and the internet's the inner interwebs but welcome to the podcast Art and Rick.
00:01:21
Speaker
What's up? Thank you so much. Thanks for having No, thank you. If you're not familiar... It's a conversation. No, yeah, it's going to be great. If you're not familiar with Eric, they are behind the the legendary East Bay magazine, the the catalog that everybody calls the East magazine when I grew up. They were like, did you get your East Bay magazine? But like you guys have Probably the biggest impact on sneakers, sneaker history.
00:01:52
Speaker
And now you all put together a book, um you so supporting a charity, like you're doing amazing things and and retelling the story of why East Bay took over the world.
00:02:05
Speaker
You're too good. It didn't exactly take over the world, but we did our try. yeah good But, you know, ah how about you introduce yourselves and talk a little bit about the book and and where're what we're here to talk about?
Founding and Mission of East Bay
00:02:25
Speaker
but Well, the book um really is about we just had one mission when we started out. We only started with four thousand dollars, um and that was to get the best athletic footwear to young people, to to young athletes. i was we We were both coaches at one time before we started East Bay. And yeah, that was that was our goal. And it was our goal all the way through.
00:02:51
Speaker
We started very small, Northern Wisconsin. Then a little bit later, we ah went to a we we started on the back of a Gremlin. and Then went to a couple of vans around the united or around ah Wisconsin. and then We started making a small catalog and went to some states around that. And then we had just got to be a bigger catalog. yeah You have to remember back in that day, if you got the East Bay catalog, that was before the internet, there were no there was no mail order pretty much.
00:03:20
Speaker
ah You really, you know, the sneakerhead thing, yeah everybody, was it was in New York. and that was it. you'd Hard to see sneakers anywhere else. Good good good footwear anywhere else.
00:03:32
Speaker
So that's how we started. And there was no one to send it to. So that's how we got it going. it's it's amazing. you know you really You really touch on this. I read a little bit of the prologue. ah But the book is called The Book of East Bay. Two friends and the catalog that changed the sneaker business. ah If you could talk a little bit about the charity that the money from the proceeds of selling this book is going to.
00:03:58
Speaker
He's Art, by the way. and Yeah. right yeah So we introduce ourselves that way so you can tell us apart. The two-headed monster. I'll make sure you it will be called out. Don't worry about it. I'll make sure that you y'all know who's who, who's Art, who's Rick. um But, yeah, talk a little bit about the the charity yeah y'all are helping.
00:04:18
Speaker
Well, art Art got a taste of the charity in real life. His nephew's daughter um was playing soccer and broke her leg. and and she was diagnosed with this rare form of cancer.
00:04:33
Speaker
wow yeah and And that's the thing that sort of endeared us to the little Little Warrior Foundation is that a lot of times these kids don't even know they have it until they break something playing around the house or playing sports.
00:04:47
Speaker
And once they get it, it virtually eliminates their chance to really ever play sports again. And so we're all we're all of us kind of, count wins by how many points you score, they count wins just by hopefully being one day able to play the game again.
00:05:04
Speaker
So it's kind of, it was close to our hearts and and really drove home the point about sometimes you think you're normal and it takes a little bit of an accident to to help to diagnose that you've got something that's really rare.
00:05:19
Speaker
Man, I mean, that's tough to hear. I'm sorry, because it's like, You know, the the important thing about sports is like the team learning how to be in a team, because I think one of the biggest things is that we don't we don't see a lot of that now is like how people learn how to cooperate with each other.
Challenges and Overcoming Adversity
00:05:36
Speaker
And and I think I learned a lot about that because I mean, my my day job is I work within i have a team. I work within the team and like, you know how I'm always looking to try to make the people around me better as they help me become the best that I can be as well. And so.
00:05:52
Speaker
You know, I figured i learned a lot about that through basketball. and like, not not everybody can be Jordan. You know, somebody's got to be Scotty. Somebody's got to be, you know. Larry Bird and everything. Dennis Rodman. Yeah, Dennis Rodman. He's got rebound. Yeah, I was about to say Bill Cartwright, you know, that's a little god name of a past you're good. Hey, hey, look, I used to collect basketball cards, so I know all the weird names. My favorite, though, is like so I'm a um'm a diehard Mets fan. Like i literally go like me and my friends will just pull out like random baseball players that were on the Mets that have the craziest names. Like, I mean, you know,
00:06:31
Speaker
Like, ah or I mean, I don't know if you know, but like, you know, i I'd be like, you know, Benny Agbayani or like, you know. wow. Oh, no we go back further, man. Ron Swoboda and those guys. Oh, yeah. That's crazy. That's crazy. I think that, I mean, but it's just like team sports, man. Like, you know, once you lose that out of your...
00:06:49
Speaker
out of your like growing up, I do think it's like it's hard. It's hard to to to figure out the world. You know, you got to like you you you. All your friends are playing sports and you're like, but why is sports so important? And you're just like, you know, now now you're like, OK, but what's your favorite team? And you got to like figure out how to find your way back into it. I think I think sports is a pivotal thing that like kids and adults like it's the range, the wide range. of like ages that it touches is so important and I think it's just everlasting.
00:07:19
Speaker
So well, and that that's what fueled East Bay was the fact that we when we started, we hired virtually all athletes and we were lucky enough that the coaches in the area recommended some of their kids to come work at East Bay as as we were growing up. And I think when we when we looked When Nike came in and took away 40% of our business one day, having that athletic background that you talk about and being able to work through adversity and being be able to to not quit when the when the when the tough gets going, it really made a difference. to tough Yeah. it's that So I've always been curious about this too because, like I mean, i I've bought from East Bay a long time, but I don't i think people have –
00:08:03
Speaker
this like weird definition of what East Bay used to be. Everybody thought it was like like I think now people confuse it as like some sort of, you know, archive of some sorts or something like that, you know. ah But what What was it like starting up and like, is it was it considered a mail to order a system or was what was it like in the beginning days of it where you were, you know, this idea where it's just like, yo, we want we want to you know supply these sports teams and these teams across the the US with sneakers and and the actual equipment to use?
00:08:40
Speaker
I hope been enjoying this week's episode with Art and Rick, better known for creating East Bay. And of course, I want to make sure that we're accurately pushing the book that they came on to represent. This is the book of East Bay. During the episode, I didn't have a copy of the book, but they were gracious enough to send me one. um Want to make sure that y'all checking out the book, hit up the book of East
Promotion and Charity Work
00:09:07
Speaker
Bay dot com. Check it out on Amazon, anywhere you can get, you know,
00:09:11
Speaker
your reader, your, your reading materials, um all proceeds from the sales of this book go to the little, little warrior foundation. Um, please make sure you pick up a copy.
00:09:26
Speaker
It's really, really dope, uh, to read about, Something that we've talked about on this episode where you can read about in extensively the creation of East Bay.
00:09:39
Speaker
It's just how it maneuvered across the U.S. and how it expanded. So to it's such a huge thing. So you're only getting basically a slice, a slice of from this episode, but you'll get the full story in this book, the book of East Bay. So make sure you tap in and buy the book.
00:09:59
Speaker
But back to the episode. Oh, you want to go first or go ahead? ri Well, we started by sending a letter to 35 coaches and we we decided that we were going to work hard to get the best shoes to the to athletes. And we decided that unlike other retailers, that we were going to go directly to the kids. We weren't going to wait for the kids to come into a store.
00:10:21
Speaker
we were um going to out to the kids and and and talk to them one on one because we thought we had some some knowledge to pass on and we and we had the passion. to connect the kids with with shoes. and And because we knew what it felt like for us when when we put on a new pair of shoes. And there's really, there's you know, it'ss it's a hard feeling hard to explain. But once you do it, you know exactly what that feeling is.
00:10:44
Speaker
And so we started going directly to them. And the coaches were so instrumental and letting us in. I had a beard. We had a rust. After we, the first year after we got rid of the Gremlin, We're halfway through the first year. We got
Interaction with Athletes and Product Introduction
00:10:56
Speaker
a van. It was all rusted out, crappy crappy lettering on the side. and Back then, the coaches, the school still let us come in. We try to hit three to four schools a day. There were these two dirtbag-looking guys in a rusty old van. Oh, yeah, come on in. Talk for us. What the heck?
00:11:15
Speaker
You guys look like you're a representative of society in general. who yeah So we started going to the schools and learned, don't want to make this too long because I know there's a lot of other stuff to talk about.
00:11:28
Speaker
But we thought that we could go in and take a fit inventory, so one of every size and take an order and then order the shoes and then bring it to the kids. First first clinic that we did, they just dove into the shoes. They wanted them right there, right then. They put them on and they said, wow. you know they We had some things that people hadn't seen in our area.
00:11:49
Speaker
um and They weren't taking them off. No, they they had no interest in taking them off. what was the What was the model at that time? This was track. So we started with track and field. Okay. um It wasn't like a Nike waffle runner at that time.
00:12:05
Speaker
oh yeah. They were just coming out with with the Waffle Racer. they they ah The first year we did it, 1980, it was really ah a shoe that looked like the Nike Cortez, but it was a nylon upper.
00:12:21
Speaker
New Balance had some shoes out. They had the 302 out. um Tiger had... um ah They had the Tokyo mount and a couple other shoes, but it was really ah kind of a tight selection. The big the big flash was the spikes.
00:12:38
Speaker
Adidas ruled the world. and and they They had a distance spike, a middle distance, and ah and a sprint spike, and either all of them looked different. All of them had different colors. Mizuno had a spike.
00:12:52
Speaker
Reebok wasn't around at the time. Nike, he had two spikes. um and some specialty shoes but it it was it was a little bit limited but it it will i mean as compared to today but it was different than what um people in our area you know we started from a small town it was different than what they had seen so yeah i mean that's amazing like that is like such the such an entrepreneurial dream like you always hear it's funny because i was listening to something earlier where they were talking about how
00:13:24
Speaker
back in the day, like people would say, oh yeah, we built this out of a garage.
Humble Beginnings and Entrepreneurial Spirit
00:13:30
Speaker
Like they would just like, they would say like, oh, IBM was built out of a garage. But then like, you know, when you get when you when you get to like Apple, Apple will be like, yeah, we we made this out of a garage too. But it was just like, that's just marketing at that point. It wasn't really built in the garage anymore. um But like here and reading about, you know, how you two started and and taking it door to door and and being like super,
00:13:53
Speaker
you know, in person with them and showing them like, you this is this is the equipment. This is what you need. Like in this, these are you're you're giving them like test drives, basically like we can't do that nowadays. And so this is it's it's like super inspiring to hear. it we couldn't even afford a garage. Our first ah we we stored the shoes first in Rick's parents basement. So hey, that's your basement.
00:14:16
Speaker
Hey, that's what you needed. You know, that's the square foot warehouse. Hey, that's mean, that's crazy. Like, I don't know how you i don't know. we'll we'll We'll get to that part of when it it ballooned up to that. But but you're here to answer the question that I ask everybody okay each week.
00:14:34
Speaker
And that question is, what's your first case with that first pair of sneakers you absolutely need to have?
00:14:41
Speaker
Go ahead. Oh, well, for for for me, the one, the, one of the first ones that I remember getting was, um, uh, back when we were in high school, you were given shoes by the school.
00:14:53
Speaker
And so what they gave you were shoes that would last forever, not, not shoes that were made to perform. Um, and I was lucky enough, um, that i qualified for state and, and, uh, in track and, um,
00:15:06
Speaker
I knew that if I was going perform my best, I needed a shoe that just wasn't available in our area. And I talked my uncle into driving me down to Madison, Wisconsin, which is about two, well, back then it was even far longer because there weren't two, four-lane highways, but probably about two and a half hours.
00:15:25
Speaker
and got to try on a pair of Adidas sprint spikes. And it just felt it felt like a glove. if there was no It was totally totally weightless almost.
00:15:35
Speaker
and And it just fit and felt like a glove. And you you stood up on it and you could feel the spikes raise your forefoot up and you knew you could just push off of it and and just fly. And it was just a feeling that that first track spike that you put on, that was a real shoe built for competition.
00:15:55
Speaker
Just there's no feeling like it. Totally unique. That's amazing. You, Art? Mine has to be, and this going to date me, sorry, as the Adidas superstar.
00:16:06
Speaker
Hey. It had to be, yeah it felt like a track spike compared to the the Chuck Taylors and Pro Kids we were wearing at the time. So, um yeah, it was a a much, you just felt like you'd run faster and jump higher than those for sure.
00:16:20
Speaker
I can't mean, I can't even imagine running in a superstar. So.
Impact of Air Jordan and Sneaker Culture
00:16:24
Speaker
The other shoe i got to mention that probably the most important shoe at the East Bay was, of course, the Air Jordan.
00:16:33
Speaker
Yes. Look, Legendary Shoe, I mean, i don't even know, like, I don't know how far, well, how how far ahead you'd have to skip ahead in order to talk about the rise of that and within the East Bay magazines and how how people really didn't get it in the first part, but like, ah the first release, but like, after it grew and and and I knew you were probably getting phone call after phone call of when when when you were able to get these and back back in But before we jump into that, like,
00:17:04
Speaker
you know the the way i'm like how did you two meet and like you know was were you two like school rivals or like you know like we met when i was two days old <unk> was in the bassinet next to me in the hospital according our house according to our parents and then um as luck would have it about three four years later we both parents said they moved in near each other on this little place on kind of highway 52 going out of town and And he's probably outside of my my sister's, you like the first person I remember. And since then, as Rick's daughter said a few weeks ago, i think you guys have talked to each other every day of your life. That's amazing. That's amazing. Amazing that we're still talking or amazing that it happened to begin with? Both. Because it's like. It's, a I mean, look, we, if you talk to a lot of people, you know, especially now with like the invention of the internet, I think, I feel like we talked to every, I feel like we talked to our friends that we've known for a long time, should less and less, you know, so to be able to, to continuously, you know, i don't know if you guys have, have fought before. I'm pretty sure if you've gone into business together, I'm sure there was a screaming match, one or two, you know? Politely argued, politely, politely, just close the door we were discussing yeah but it's just like you know friendships i'm i'm only child so like ah for me friendships are everything you know so it's just like you know it's good to hear that you guys have have stuck stuck through it and and stuck together you know it's been fortunate it's been a joy no it really has
00:18:46
Speaker
Now, look, did you when it came to sneakers, especially to like when you when you're growing up, did you was there like a specific shoe that was like outside of track that was really caught your eyes? Like I know I know, like in the you know early eighty s and, you know, we've got, you know, converses, the weapon and the birds. And, you know, so like I'm curious about your your sneaker journeys, especially because, you you know, you came up together.
00:19:12
Speaker
I don't think before that there was there was, you know, and And Chuck Taylor, as you just thought, is that, that was a basketball shirt. You didn't think it had something to wear around or anything. So it was, um yeah, we were bad yeah were dating ourselves here again. But no, not really, I don't think.
00:19:31
Speaker
No, I know there was a time, so I've read, i don't know if you've read ah Russ Bengston's book, 15 Sneakers. It's like 15 basketball sneakers, you should know. um and then there was a moment that really stuck with me where it was like, there was ah somebody who wanted to be on ah either like Adidas or something like that, but got signed to Converse and took the the Converse star off and painted like,
00:19:58
Speaker
Or no, no, no. They took the they took the Converse Star off of the ah of their shoe and put it onto an Adidas shoe because they wanted to play in Adidas'. Oh, way cool. Oh, sorry. A star with the three stripes, that would have been cool. Very cool.
00:20:15
Speaker
But it was just like, I i don't know. not Now we live in a world where it's like basketball. Every every basketball player has a sneaker, right? Like, yeah you know, um' what i grew up where we had to, you know, we had to play through the East Bay magazine. Like, okay, our school shoe was the True Flights. So we had to buy, we only had to buy True Flights. had to buy True Flights in specific color. And you're like, that's it. That's all you got, you know? but the Is there like a ah moment where you knew that basketball seniors were going to take off within putting out these East Bay catalogs?
00:20:54
Speaker
I think one of the key moments was when we started going to the clinics, you could see kids started talking. and you could and And a kid would come up to another kid and say, why'd you get those?
00:21:08
Speaker
Or, boy, those are really cool. i may I'm going to try that pair on. So you you you you saw them start to talk and exchange ideas and what they liked and what they didn't like and and and what felt good.
00:21:19
Speaker
and And I think um one of the things that really hit home to us is when we saw kids coming in and buying two pair of shoes and one they played in and one they wore around.
00:21:33
Speaker
And and we we knew then that that kids were were gonna buy shoes for casual because when when they felt so good putting on their their game shoes or their their team shoes, they wanted that same feeling all the time.
00:21:47
Speaker
all right, jumping in here again to make sure that you are liking, subscribing, and of course, leaving a comment on YouTube. If you're watching this on YouTube, hit that hype button too. And if you are listening to this on Apple or Spotify, please, please, please leave a review or a comment on Spotify. It goes a very long way.
00:22:09
Speaker
Trying to get five star reviews helps me get the podcast more out there. You know, I know this is not the usual episode where we're in studio, but really wanted to to make sure that y'all had an episode this week.
00:22:24
Speaker
And I wanted to make sure that we're highlighting something that is going to a good cause. So, of course, let's jump back right into the episode. but i mean, I mean, look, you know, I know i'm I'm one of those kids. That was me. I was hoping I could get two pairs. that That didn't happen for me. um The.
00:22:42
Speaker
um I'm curious of the construction of the catalog, because now we know, you know, a lot of people collect these, right? Like at one point, and trust me, I had stacks. I've had stacks of East Bay magazines, right? I'm so mad I threw them all away, but I had them. ah And so we all, you know, us sneakerheads now are super nostalgic about East bay easts Bay catalogs. But as you're constructing these catalogs, were you ever like putting design thought to it? Or like how do how do you get this shoe in front of more people? Like were was that part of the process at all?
00:23:19
Speaker
I think we really thought about be the the young athlete.
Evolution of East Bay Catalogs
00:23:25
Speaker
And or are the high school kid just being able to compare the best product against the best product all the time.
00:23:31
Speaker
And we'd have the weight and what would know how they were made and and how what the technology was. And we let them make the decisions. Would you agree, Rick? Yeah.
00:23:43
Speaker
I mean, I think that that's that's what we tried to do. We didn't push one brand over another. You know, we might we may have made the Air Jordan a touch bigger than maybe most of the other shoes or or or the Shaq Punk shoe bigger than than the other shoes, maybe even the Converse Weapon.
00:23:59
Speaker
even ah even the new when the new Pippin shoe came out with the word Nike on the side, you know sometimes they snuck in just a little bit bigger than the other. like Squeeze it a little bit bigger. or or we put it Or we put them on the corners where you know that's where your eye goes. You kind of read in an f format.
00:24:16
Speaker
um But we we really try to to put the put the onus on the people looking at the catalogs. We wanted them to have the power to decide what they want, not what Nike wanted them or Adidas wanted them to have or what we wanted them to have just because we bought a lot. We we wanted them to pick what they felt the best in because kind of through this whole thing, we've really have chased that first time feeling of putting on a new baseball spike or a new track spike.
00:24:44
Speaker
and And how do you get that feeling as often as you can? Because it's memorable, no question about it. No, yeah. And it's crazy. I'm going to tell you this, and i don't think I've ever said this, but like.
00:24:55
Speaker
So I went to school for print. And so when I looked at your magazines, I looked at the, i keep saying magazines. and When I looked at the cat the catalogs, like, I was always very curious of how, like, you got to this point of printing. Because, I mean, by the time I started collecting ah the the catalogs, it probably, like, early two thousand like, late early So, like,
00:25:18
Speaker
that it was already full color at that point, right? And lot of small text. And I was always so curious of like, how are how are these people able to put the ah this much information into this catalog? Because you if you look at like catalogs as in in general, it was always either like black and white and like full text or like, you know, very similar to like yellow pages or white pages or something like that, where it's just like you're just getting all information. You're not really getting detail. And yeah what I loved about like and I still even remember that the feel of the East Bay magazines. It was like waxy type of paper where it was like You you know, you're you feel like you're like getting the full picture of the shoe so that when you order, you're like, it's right there. Like, I could still think about it to this day. But what I'm so curious of, like, how did you get to that point? Like, was the first may was the first catalog that detailed or was it just, you know, where it just grew over over time and you had the team to build that out?
00:26:19
Speaker
but It's kind of a long answer because ah we had the the first catalogs before digital came along, we had to build it. it ah It was a long build on. You take you have film on your camera.
00:26:31
Speaker
You take 5, 10, 15, 20 pictures of a shoe. You'd have to look at each picture to see is a shadow covering something? is is Is everything nice and bright? Can you really see whats what what the the key pieces of the shoe are?
00:26:44
Speaker
Then you take um and type out the words to every shoe and it'd be on a little strip of paper. and if you got if you forgot If you forgot to put a comma or you forgot to put a quotation mark, you had to rip that whole little strip off, retype it, paste it on the board. and Then once you got all the pictures and all the type, then you take a picture with a camera and and then you you can put it into film and and then you start printing. but Right about 1990, I'm going to say what, 90? Yeah.
00:27:14
Speaker
Right about 1990, we brought our catalog production in house. We actually had to drive we had to drive about 30 miles to get to a place that could help us build the catalog because Wausau didn't really have a print shop like that. So we had to go to a town south of Wausau, about 30 miles.
00:27:34
Speaker
um But I think about 84, we brought the catalog production in house. 85, just when the Jordan came out, for basketball season, that's when we went color.
00:27:47
Speaker
And then right about, I think close to 90, maybe 88, 89, we finally, our our creative director said, we got to go digital because we had brought production in house. We were saving time.
00:28:00
Speaker
But yet we still were doing film and there's just- You can make four catalogs a year then. Yeah, probably about four to five catalogs a year. And once we went digital, then everything changes in a matter of a second. And you can put ah you can change a word, a line, a picture, an angle, whatever you want to do, move things around, put type over the shoe or new or big sizes or you know whatever, you know the things that we had on there.
00:28:23
Speaker
yeah So it it really it really evolved over time as technology grew. you know Once the Macs came out, the first max. It really allowed us then to be able to design the catalog and and and bring it back in house. But as we got going and we've got our um our list up to a certain point, because we had started just with coaches and then eventually they said, you know we can't we don't have time to take the orders, fit the shoes, send back the returns. and So send me catalogs and I'll give them out to my kids. So once we had built up a big enough name list that we were sending to individuals, um
00:29:02
Speaker
we We really found out we because we were still going to clinics directly to kids at the school in the vans. Yeah. um The kids kept kept, we could see the kids evolving and and and getting connected to their shoes and that connected them to other things. And so we tried to make the catalog, gave them tips on how to train, you know, do do the interviews with the pro athletes. that Yeah.
00:29:26
Speaker
we we wanted them that We wanted to build, not only build the trust that they were going to get a shoe when they ordered it, and we weren't going try to upsell them when they did order something, but let them know that we were there to help them be the best athlete that they could be, not only just by buying the shoes, but by learning how to be a better athlete and what it takes and how come these guys made it and other people didn't. And so we tried to put the emotion and and make a connection with the kids and it just kind of e evolved from there.
00:29:54
Speaker
No. Yeah. I mean, i remember those two, like just the the interviews, like I, at one point, like how many subscriptions or as subscribers did you have?
Expansion and Subscriber Growth
00:30:05
Speaker
Like it had to be a record breaking number.
00:30:08
Speaker
Well, you know, cause there were no lists. So we started with zero people on our list, zero young people, athletes. think we ended up with about seven or 8 million of them. And you start with zero and you got, you know, and Rick was talking about making the catalog and and we had one of the first digital cameras north of Chicago and all in it cost about $100,000 and it had, you know, it it it couldn't do what my iWatch does as far as the picture.
00:30:40
Speaker
So over a hundred grand it's That's crazy. and Yeah, that's a lot of money for us. Yeah, I mean, look, yeah. for And then for it to be like, and and that because technologies move so fast, like when you invest in that $100,000, like that's at the top of the line. And then by the next year, they're like, Yeah, we've already made four different versions of that for fifty k or whatever. Yeah, that's exactly. Right. Our book is 300 pages. We used to buy After you went digital, Rick got all that stuff going. we We're making at least 450 page catalogs a year and another
00:31:15
Speaker
eight that way and some Nike catalogs and everything else under the sun. So we it was it was a really um um a moment in time for us.
00:31:26
Speaker
and and And we were so lucky that we really had the only list of 12 to 24 year olds anywhere. And these these were not just ordinary kids. These were athletes and and shoe buyers.
00:31:40
Speaker
And so really a quite important list to have. And and we would just- We didn't know it at the time. until now. Yeah, until a little later. But we were we were fortunate that that people put their trust in us and we thank them. I mean, look, I think, you know, the the pureness of it, like just the just the coming from, you know, humble beginnings to, to you know, ah having just like the best intention is always, I feel like more fulfilling. Like, I mean,
00:32:09
Speaker
you know you're not you're not thinking about it until now probably but exactly like as you're doing it you're just like i'm doing this i got to do this so you know i got to put we got to put the next book out we got to put the next book out so it's it's kind of it's very hard to kind of live in such a like you at that time and for a very long time east bay was the go-to where you would I would bring it to high school with me and show people like, hey, look, did you check did you see this? And they're like, yeah. And then they pull out their East Bay and be like, but this is what I have circled for. I'm going to try to beg my mom for for Christmas. And you're just like, yeah you know, like that's that that was like our, i would I'd call it like
00:32:49
Speaker
ah just like our window shopping because you couldn't go to, like if you'd go to the stores, somebody would hound you to buy the sneaker and then you'd be like, I don't have the money. And then they're like, Ben, I don't want to talk to you anymore. But like with East Bay magazines, it's like, yeah, I could see the shoe. i would like this shoe. Please. Can I please have this shoe? And then you just spend the whole time just shoving the picture into your parents' face. Like, please. Well, that's what we said. We we we had hoped that, ah you know, part of our plan was not only to get the shoes,
00:33:18
Speaker
to the the best shoes to the athletes, but it was to help the athletes feel like they had the power to make their own decision. And it wasn't somebody like you just said at the retail store saying, well, if you're not going to buy, you know, we don't really care. we we We were happy to keep sending catalogs so that kids could look and see what's coming out. We we always, once we went digital, we were lucky enough that we could make catalogs fast enough.
00:33:43
Speaker
Every month we had a ah new catalog. and most mail order places would take, I'm gonna make up a month here, but they would take their June catalog with with handbags in the front and jackets in the back. And then when they got the July catalog, the jackets moved to the front and the handbags were in the back. We redesigned every catalog every month from from ground zero and and tried- to have new product We made sure we had new product in every catalog that that wasn't in the catalog the month before. you know and you tried to, you tried to you know
00:34:17
Speaker
during the NBA championship games, you know, you, you get that catalog out in, in at the right time, hopefully just before the games, the the tournament game started just before the start of baseball, just before the track, the start of wrestling, whatever the sport was, we tried to try to match it to when kids are needing things and when they're most interested in and seeing what's available.
00:34:39
Speaker
Yeah. so since Question. Were you one of the guys that had to call and get your, get new catalog? Cause your teacher took it away. Hmm. No, I don't know.
00:34:50
Speaker
I mean, I i believe so. it wasn't like for me, I went to a pretty bad school, pretty bad high school. So like they didn't really care. So I can't tell you, but like what I would do is definitely like in middle school when I used to really, i used to have the East Bay magazine in my book bag during middle school. oh almost every day and i would only pull it out during lunch.
00:35:15
Speaker
Maybe i wouldn't pull it out during class because I was kind of too afraid of it being like ripped up and like I knew people would leave me alone during lunch. So I was just like, all right, cool. I can bring the I can look through the sneakers ah during you know lunch and nobody would you know bother me. um But like, yeah, I've never gotten to take away. I've definitely gotten it ripped in half one time. But then it it was already i already had the next month with. So I was just like, all right, whatever, you know, the. ah ah So so we all know the East Bay logo is iconic at this point, right? Like I can point it out of the middle of nowhere, to be honest. But like, what's the evolution process of like when when did you all decide like this is this is the East Bay logo?
00:36:04
Speaker
the The first day that we went into business because we were able to get started in business by a guy that had the the first running only store in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and it was called East Bay Running Store. see So he had already had the script lettering and already had the design. And and so he helped us get going. And then eventually we we bought the name from him. and And we were at a point where it just didn't pay to change because it It was so recognizable by them.
00:36:35
Speaker
That's wow. Oh, I didn't even know that part. That was, that's very interesting. Cause like, I always thought it was, that was it. Like you guys were just like, all right, East Bay. And then, and then get, let's get ah let's get an artist to just make a logo. Here you go. A lot of people thought we were from California. So yeah.
00:36:52
Speaker
i thought Yes, i thought I there was definitely a moment where I was like, yeah, this is a brand from out of like, you know, all the way to the West Coast. So like, yeah, it's crazy that that like, I don't know, it's just like whenever I've seen that logo, was just like it just lit. It just like it'll my eyes lit up because it's just like it's just so iconic, like seeing it behind you right now. Like I just it's burned etched in my head. Like I can't I can't think not think about it when I think like sneaker catalogs for sure.
00:37:20
Speaker
Well, thank you. Thank you. No, y'all had the eye. Y'all had the eye from the jump, you know, as they say. So, like, when it came to sneaker culture really getting behind sneakers, was there, when did it feel like, okay, you know, now there's another audience you have to service because, you know, being very focused around the equipment and supporting athletes, now we're seeing the rise of sneaker culture. Like, when did it connect to you
00:37:51
Speaker
like, okay, now we need to kind of like, you know, not really pivot because you still have to service athletes, but like when it was, is there a moment that you were just like, whoa, this is actually taking on a life of its own?
00:38:05
Speaker
I remember, um I remember being on the phones. I have to think probably had to be couldn't have been the first year, the so the second year, the Air Jordans came out.
00:38:18
Speaker
and so And somebody, so that would have been 80, well, the first year that we it in the catalog was 85, so it would have been
Cultural Significance of Air Jordans
00:38:26
Speaker
86. And a guy called up, and it sounded like a dad, and he said, I need a size 12 for my son. Do you have it?
00:38:33
Speaker
And I said, oh, I'm sorry, sir. We sold out of those. We don't have the Air Jordan in a 12. And he said, well, what size do you have it And I said, well, we have all kinds of sizes, but what size you need? I don't care what size do you have it in And so we knew that people were calling just to to have the shoes and and being able to, it wasn't necessarily for the kids to play basketball in anymore. I mean, lets like they were like, hey, I just need a size right now. anyone I got to have one.
00:39:04
Speaker
It's that that's a wild like and then, you know, the trend Jordan one. I always feel like, you know, I've watched the movie air, but like, I don't know. What is the significance? Do you do you have like a story of like the significance of the shoe during that time? Because, I mean, I was born in 88, so I didn't really didn't really know about sneakers until maybe 10 years after that. So, like, everything we did was was.
00:39:31
Speaker
Perfect timing, just right time, right place with the right people, everything. So, 85, we happened to go our first color catalog. And of course, we got the Dunks in there and the Jordans. The Air Jordan 1. We got team colors in the Air Force, yeah.
00:39:47
Speaker
All in team colors. We got the Jordans in white and orange and white and maroon and everything. Well, that was actually the next year. But this is, you know, so team colors, we went to that color catalog, Jordan, Dunks,
00:40:01
Speaker
You know, if I had a time machine, I'd i'd love to go back and and get all those shoes because we sold all of them for $49.95. Oh, man, that's great. oh we had better that was ah That was the only product. I remember that single product, the Jordan, that if we didn't sell those, that didn't sell, we were out of business.
00:40:19
Speaker
mean So we pretty much went all in on that. Nike, when they first did it, you watch the air, they all expected they'll do $100,000 in and they ended up doing a million and a half. Mm-hmm.
00:40:31
Speaker
So, um I mean, yeah, so it was it was a lot lot bigger than everybody thought. lot of people at the beginning didn't think it was going be that great a shoe, but we liked it, so we went for it. so did you I think it's the first product.
00:40:45
Speaker
I think before that, athletic footwear was kind of, um it was an equipment you had to have. After that, I think became an identity. That's where I really, I thought,
00:40:58
Speaker
kids you know sometimes you just put a shoe on you say this is cool and you just you feel better about it and then you feel better about how you're playing so yeah that's when it started the i think it's the only shoe we were talking about this and it was the only shoe that you could when we were going to schools with the kids you could walk in and say Here's the Jordan. What do you think? And almost every kid had an opinion. They hated it. They loved it. They throw it away. I'd never play in that. It's too too floppy. Oh, I love it. It's so light. It's so flexible. Everybody had a different opinion, and and they all were so excited. they
00:41:36
Speaker
It was the first time that that the kids just really talked to each other and and really talked about what they were interested in and why they liked it and why they didn't like it. it was It was a pretty pivotal moment. Easy to see.
00:41:49
Speaker
That's so... How did that work back then? Because I know Nike... So that shoe wasn't necessarily like the first basketball shoe that they were pushing during that time because they did the whole Air Force series. But...
00:42:05
Speaker
but Like I know such a big gamble. So like the stock, did you just buy half of what the inventory was or like, how did that even work? As much as we could have afford, you know, and you had, you had credit lines and you we bought everything we could.
00:42:21
Speaker
Um, and then luckily there were things like the black and red didn't sell well. So they had a lot of backup inventory on it and we just kept buying as much as we could. um So you got to blame we were we were lucky enough to get team colors too. So you got to, you got to blame Jordan for that. Remember when he went on David Letterman. Yes. yeah And he said, this shoe is ugly. And he was you're like, yeah I know you're probably, you're like watching that being like,
00:42:50
Speaker
Oh, no, we're gonna have to put these on sale. It's it I mean, and now they're bringing back the like those other like school way, the school colorways too. yeah um And it's like, you know, because it's funny, i have a friend that works at Nike. So like I've seen a lot of the like the the like the their DNA area. i don't know you ever were able to visit that. um But like they hold, they have all the old pairs up in the Jordan building. And it's like, so interesting to see how many colors do not get talked about, but then they're like, Hey, if you just open and they have the old East Bay magazine with all the team colors. And and you're like, I'm like, what they have an orange and white. They have a purple and white. You're like they're like, this is insane. Like I didn't, I never, you when you think about Jordan, you only think about it two different colors basically for the first like you thinking like oh yeah they only released you know the chicago colorway and then the black and red colorway and then that was it and then you're like no no no they had team colorways and yeah not for very long was i think it was only a year wasn't it yeah couple years one or two years at the most and in fact when when we um uh because they presented it to it they presented us and saying we're going to make team colors in the jordans because they knew that we were doing such a business with ah with the schools, the sample that they had was just a piece of cardboard or piece of leather with with ah with a a color with a Jordan on it with the colors. They didn't even have a sample of the shoe.
00:44:21
Speaker
Wow. That's crazy. It was one of those quick, hurry up and let's do this because we think we can make enough team colors. to Because back then, ah I think there the minimum quantity to do is to do a color in a shoe was 50,000 pairs.
00:44:35
Speaker
It's gone way down now, but I'm sure your friends at Nike can can tell you all fine.
Role in Athletic Footwear Distribution
00:44:42
Speaker
Definitely not. They can't give me anything. I've tried. I've tried. they' have they They do not help me out there. But you you must have great inside information. Good for you. That's fabulous. Yeah. hey i mean it's stuff I can't say, stuff I can't say. i don't know. i don't know you know you I'm pretty sure you've been in the hallowed halls of the Nike campus. you and And as much as we grew up as a company, the the Nikes of the world anddida and Adidas and Reeboks, they all were growing up at the same time.
00:45:13
Speaker
yeah And they changed so dramatically from what they were like when we started to what they are today. And it it was, you know, it's, it, we just feel privileged that we had a front row seat to watch all of that. Yeah. But I mean, like you, y'all had more than that for sure, because because of you two, you've helped usher in those, that lane that they're able to really talk to these other distributors because at one point I would say you, you know, East Bay was the the main hub. Like in order to get stuff, you had to go through. you Like you were the distributor at one point too, you know?
00:45:54
Speaker
there There were things like, i remember Roger Clemens people calling because he needed a a nice size 13 brown pitching toe shoe, Puma, and we're the only ones to have it.
00:46:06
Speaker
We had to get a ah show a shoe over to the Barcelona Olympics in 92 for Gwent Torrance because we had the only Mizuno's lichens five and a half that that she needed.
00:46:17
Speaker
Wow. like That's crazy. I can't even think of it. That's how those things changed because when we started, you know we started with such little money, we put everything back into inventory. and so We figured out a way to order from the companies. that spaced down our payments every 30 days.
00:46:35
Speaker
and and And that saved our life because we we knew how much we were selling and we just had to keep replenishing it. And and the companies had the backup inventory. Now today, there isn't such a thing.
00:46:46
Speaker
yeah Because back then they were opening stores as fast as they could because the whole industry was growing. Today there's a few biggies and then some a few medium size and and the rest are kind of local places and and they just don't have any extra inventory anymore. we We couldn't do what we did today if we would start now. so I mean, back then, new products would come out, new styles out every six months. What are they coming out every six weeks now? Every six minutes.
00:47:16
Speaker
It's amazing. I mean, Nike in 86, when we really started rocking and rolling, they that was the first time they had a a billion dollars. And um boy, they're 50 billion now. Pretty amazing how big sneaker business has become.
00:47:33
Speaker
yeah did you ever what i lot lucky for the people like us who like to wear them so yeah yeah for sure now now we'll we'll never we'll never have the end of of a sneaker industry to be honest and like with the way i'd see it like but but as you were you know seeing these companies progress and and and like did it was there a moment like it became a little bit harder to get stock like was there was there ever a moment where you're like Like this is, this is, they're not talking to us anymore type of thing, you know, like.
00:48:05
Speaker
Um, 1988, um, Rick had mentioned this already. So we're mail order and we're, we're kind of, you know, we got all these athletes on our team and everyone's thinking out of the box. Cause there's, you know, nobody we had was, was from business.
00:48:22
Speaker
Yeah. You know? And so we're making stuff up as we're going, we're, we're, we're building the plans. We're flying along here. And, um, And Nike just just mail order was something brand new. They they actually we had to close us down for a while. They closed down all mail order.
00:48:39
Speaker
So we lost them just the Nike Air, just the Nike Air, which was 40% of our business. Wow. And then we lost- Like the Air Maxes? Oh, God, I could have cried.
00:48:50
Speaker
who And so, I mean, so you're going along and and we're growing, you know, doubling or 50% increases and you lose 40% of your business. Yeah, that was pretty hard. um And that's where, like when we went to the with the Jordan and the color catalog, we went from East Bay Running Store to just East Bay.
00:49:12
Speaker
And then after ah we lost Nike, we really started concentrating on, you know, every baseball glove we'd get our hands on and and bat and starter jackets. And, yeah you know, you went to things like the...
00:49:27
Speaker
The Grand Hill shoe was from Fila. Yeah. Going big into Reebok. you know They started out, luckily, with a pump at 90. So we became East Bay the sports horse. So we had to reinvent ourselves again.
00:49:40
Speaker
Yeah. i know I know there was a time I was looking at gloves because I wanted to play baseball so bad. Blame it on Michael Jordan when he stretched it. One year you wanted to. Exactly. One year. One year I wanted to be a a Baron.
00:49:53
Speaker
You know? let's say the But ah like seeing the the the wide range of stuff, I mean, i mean, iconically, and I'm so curious about this, but that jumping shoe, I used to make fun of that jumping shoe.
00:50:07
Speaker
for years, I'm pretty sure every every person you talk to talk to that's probably around my age is gonna bring up the shoe that height gives you more height on your jumps. But like, how did that shoe find you?
00:50:19
Speaker
The strength shoe. I know. yeah g we We carried, ah we tried a lot of different things. We we had a shoe called Tenelle, which had a circular um bottom on it so you could cut faster for football and baseball. and baseball And these guys came in pitched us and you know you know that anything you can do where someone can jump higher, run faster, we're going to give it a try. We sold a lot of those shoes.
00:50:49
Speaker
And we had a lot of people write testimonials about, you know, I dropped two tenths of a second or or jump, you know, five inches higher and stuff like that. And that's a big deal.
00:51:05
Speaker
Whether you're high school athlete or college athlete. For real, because I was looking at that. i was i remember trying to be like, I think I need to get this because if I get it, I'm going to be able to dunk. like I was like, really? They wouldn't ever help me. They wouldn't have helped us, that's for sure.
00:51:20
Speaker
I was trying so I remember begging. But is this like when you grow up with not as much chances to buy sneakers, like now I've got tons of pairs now. But like growing up, was only able to get maybe one or two a year. And like to me to, you know, sacrifice one pair just to get the jumping shoe. was so close. I was so close because I was just like, I was staring at it in the East Bay catalog and I'd be like,
00:51:48
Speaker
I think this is going to be the year because if I get it now, then I can work on my jumping so I can dunk by like the seventh grade. That's what that's what I to do. It never happened for me, but um I remember just like trying to convince my friends to buy it too because I'm like, hey, come on, look, look, Christmas coming around.
00:52:08
Speaker
look and then i show it to like look you can start dunking like we you can we can go to the league together we can go to the nba together let me see the strength show or the jordan which one do you would you rather have yeah i tried my best and so it's just good that you tried to bring your friends along with you with your love company you know Hey, look, like and my friends hate me. like we yeah We go to a store um and anybody that goes shopping with me, like they they're they're always like, man, I hate going shopping with you. Because I will walk into a store and like I will pull up stuff and I'm this looks great on you. like right And then i'll have that I'll have my friends spend like $200 and I walk out of there with nothing in my hand. Yeah. You had to start a show just doing that. How much you can talk people into shopping without you having to buy anything? that would be i like Hey, trademark. My first King's trademark. Art and Rick going to get a slice of that one right there. so You know, but um that it was very interesting to see, like, the did was that like a ah like a salesperson came to you and see that or like, where were you finding these things? Like, were you finding these interesting equipment pieces that were like, you know, out of the box? Because I know, you know.
00:53:30
Speaker
I don't know how it worked before where people came up like now we got Shark Tank. Shark Tank is you watch that, you see, you know, you we see your entrepreneur stuff and now they're like, oh oh, I'll invest. But this is, you know, East Bay, your, you know, mail order catalog. And so it's like, like, do people come in to try to book meetings with you and try to get like sell you on this idea? Like, how did that work?
00:53:54
Speaker
um So Wausau, Wisconsin is not the easiest to get to. And there were a few places like few places like the the string shoe guys that they they came up to Wausau to show us what what they had.
00:54:08
Speaker
I'll never forget Kevin Plank from Under Armour. When he first started, he made the trek up to Wausau and showed us all the stuff. And I was so mad because I love the name so much. Why didn't we come up with that? It was a got great product and everything. so I mean, yeah, there are people who had things for athletes.
00:54:28
Speaker
would come up and and say, you know ki can we talk to somebody? And we had we had buyers that some of the job was just just to find new things all the time.
00:54:39
Speaker
Oh, that's awesome. yeah when they you know They had big sporting goods shows so you could go. And they were only twice a year. So there was still product that slipped through the crack that you know first came to to market after the shows or whatever. But there was there was a really a product good chance that if you're looking for new stuff, you could find it at these sporting goods shows. and and And then, like Art said, we were lucky enough to be able to size with a reach with our athletes that people came to us quite often.
Product Selection and Market Impact
00:55:08
Speaker
That's awesome. sold over a quarter million size 13 basketball shoes. so Hey, I'm a size 13. Perfect. You probably sold at least five pairs to me. what it i mean Thank you. What was your favorite?
00:55:21
Speaker
ah basketball shoot. I mean, it's still those the true flights. I love those true flights. Well, like, you were still right. the Yeah, they were super light. And so it was one year I bought the crazy lights, too. I bought the crazy lights, the Adidas sick crazy lights and um for like 50 bucks because I was just like, oh, I need like a basketball, everyday basketball shoe to just play basketball outside. And so probably like that in between. I really like light shoes when I'm playing basketball. So I love the true flights. and my you know my high My middle school at the time was like, you have to wear them red and white.
00:55:58
Speaker
um and it was like i i was just like, oh, ah the air. It was like very breathable. That's what like the function that I really enjoyed because my feet were getting really hot whenever I played basketball. They still do. so like yeah Early on, what it? 81, 82, Nike made a mesh basketball shoe.
00:56:21
Speaker
And mesh is still backed with the foam with the foam pad, but so it cut down some of the breathability. But those shoes really breathed so well, so much better than almost any of the others, and and they stopped making them.
00:56:35
Speaker
yeah They didn't tell. They didn't tell. They look like they breathe. Yeah. did So I recently was able to be interviewing. I interviewed Jinx from, you know, formerly from Complex, and we talked about the phone posit. But, like, when they, when, you know, the phone posit, definitely you you had them at in the East Bay magazine.
00:56:57
Speaker
so like, I know it's such a, it's it's like a such a futuristic shoe. When you saw it in front of you, did you did you ever think it was going to be you know something that would hold up the stand of time?
00:57:12
Speaker
I think i I remember us talking about that. And and I thought we i can't remember. i thought we had Brian Krenz was our basketball buyer at the time. and And I thought we had him do some some extra research because it it looked like that there could be some issues with it.
00:57:33
Speaker
now But he came back with glowing remarks. Sometimes they looked heavy because of the bulge the you know the bulge in the foam. But um they were so they were just such a light, flexible shoe. And a lot of times, you know even like with the penny, the pen the penny didn't look like it was going to be that light. But when you put it on, it just felt, wow.
00:57:58
Speaker
I can go. Yeah, for real. it's it's such a it's so It's such an interesting shoe. And like that technology is such ahead of its was such ahead of his game that it's like it's so interesting how it became such a revered shoe within sneakers, sneaker culture, and within like the zeitgeist of anything sneakers. Because as soon as you see somebody wearing it, like a copper colorway or something, like the eggplant or the purple colorway, it's like You're like, whoa, those look like they're from 2093 or something like that. I don't know. you know like They're from Back to the Future. Great. Perfect. well and And you have your your friend at Nike. And so we were we were a little surprised that it took that long to do something like that.
00:58:41
Speaker
Yeah. Because that's taking shoe technology to a whole different level. and And Nike kind of had had been leading the way in that department. and And we thought maybe that something like that would have come out a little sooner.
00:58:56
Speaker
based upon all you know Based upon their past history of how they helped manage to grow the business No, yeah, they've they they've had such legendary designers like Tinker, yeah you know, like some people, these people, you know, Aaron Cooper, but like they they think outside the box where it's like form function, form form foot function and like architecture. And you're like, you're looking at it instructional instructional design and you're like, or you're like, why does this, how does this work? then they're like, it works. It works amazingly. Like it's great. right mom But with AI, where do you see the future?
00:59:31
Speaker
Oh, no. I think so. I'm I'm a i'm ah I'm against um using AI for creative reasons. Right.
00:59:43
Speaker
Concept thing is like a weird gray area because it's like it's going to make something that you probably mechanically can't make. Right. Yes. So.
00:59:54
Speaker
I think there needs to be like, if you're going to use AI for footwear design or like, I would think you need to use it for like, how do we get to a compound to make something lighter? How do you use, like use it more in a mathematical, like material sense versus design sense, you know? Cause I still think you need to build a shoe around the way our feet react to the, to the,
01:00:19
Speaker
you know, X amount of ah pounds of pressure, and yeah you know, and like, you know, how does a how does X athlete move the they laterally move? You know, like I listened to a Wilson Smith breakdown the the Air Jordan 17, I think 16 17. And he talked about using pressure plates to figure out where Jordan's, like, ah pressure, where he his most pressure parts yeah of his foot is being used whenever he's, like, in transition or, like, in a specific move. And it's, like, as soon as you take...
01:00:52
Speaker
some of these functional functions, functional functions out of an actual piece of footwear, I feel like you're just you're losing what the sneakers are actually meant to be, you know, like the actual function behind it.
01:01:08
Speaker
you would You would think there's got to be some kind of angulation or something that that allows your your toe to flex quicker or a little more strongly rather than just these flat bottom shoes that you can put, you know, custom make for your foot because everybody's foot is different.
01:01:23
Speaker
Yeah. So it'll be interesting to see where they go with it. I don't know if AI is ever going able to come up with the with the feel or the cool. You know, there's there's something about.
01:01:36
Speaker
Yeah. and And it's for probably for people like you and the other leaders and it's just like you just see it, and you know, this is cool. And I don't think machines are going to tell you that.
01:01:47
Speaker
Nah, there's no way that AI can dictate that. Like that that's something that just like AI can't go outside and tell you, yeah, hey, this is this is cool. Like you have to, that's like, you really have to hear it from an actual person that cares about it. You know, like it it needs to come from somebody that had you Yeah, I was going to say somebody that has a soul. Even better. That's a nice way to say it. Good point.
01:02:13
Speaker
That's a good play on words. I like that. yeah ah So I know you touched you touched on Under Armour and like you know you wish you came up with that name. was there ah Is there a product or a brand that you passed on that ended up blowing up or like becoming something that you were like, wow, I didn't think that would go that far?
01:02:34
Speaker
i don't think so. we We had some really good people working up for us. i't We had a great team. We really did it. I mean, and one came out for a while. yeah um And they just, they took the best. It was such a great product line. We thought they would go longer and and they didn't. The Ewing. The the Ewing, even the even Dada's. when when When they came out, with le yeah um we thought that maybe they would have a little more staying power, but I don't know that we didn't buy something that really took off.
01:03:13
Speaker
I love that. I love that. Like, like, I think that, cause I think the, what was really, mean, look, I remember the Dada's in there with the spinners and Latrell Speedwell holding the basketball. Like you already, you unlocked the memory of me. I was like, oh I'm going to get the wood grain pair. And i never I remember, i remember showing it to my friend, like, Hey, yo, look, check, check these out. And he was just like, those are ugly. And i was like, all right, nevermind. Like, I did. like we We remember our basketball buyer going to Detroit and coming back home with Dada's. he made a a
01:03:47
Speaker
He made a connection to to the the woman who who kind of had the the ah vision of what Dada's were going to be. And so it was pretty cool. That's one of the other brands, I think, that that we were lucky enough to kind of give some national attention to.
01:04:02
Speaker
Oh, yeah. That'd be beautiful stuff.
Reflection and Book Promotion
01:04:04
Speaker
So we're towards the end of the podcast, and it deals with a little visualization. I want you to think back to both you know young Art, young Rick. you know ah Art's getting the Adidas superstar, and Rick's getting his Adidas track shoe, right? Track spike, yep. Track spike. track spike um Now you're an older you behind your younger selves. What would you tell your younger self as he opened that box?
01:04:33
Speaker
Gardies with your life. Who are those superstars going to come back into favor or back into fashion in the mid 80s? Yeah. A big, big moment. Big, big moment. yeah Oh, man.
01:04:48
Speaker
Thank you. Thank you Rick and Art, for for jumping on the podcast. I don't know. Do you want to share like your social medias but or just just go ahead? rick again well we We have a website called Book of East Bay. And like we started going out directly to kids, we put our prologue of the book on the website so you can read the prologue and see if it's something you might be interested in in buying the book from. But and then again, everything goes to charity. So yeah, a little warrior foundation.
01:05:20
Speaker
Shout out Brandon Sneed. Thank you. listen it Yeah, Brandon really took took our took the ideas and he interviewed so many people from East Bay and.
01:05:32
Speaker
and took that pile of information and and turned it into a book. So yeah, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. I can't wait to get a ah copy. I got to buy one. Sorry. I would have, I would have, I would have had one with me right now, but i i didn't get a chance to. allla Yeah. let say Yeah.
01:05:53
Speaker
but Let's get your get your address address. We'll get one out the door for you. ah sure a big time i i mean i would i'll and i'll I'll send the money directly to the foundation as well. Wonderful. Thank you very much. so thank you thank Thank you for joining the podcast. and You know we say each week? Wear your kicks.
01:06:11
Speaker
Peace. Peace. Definitely wear kicks. We're more than we enjoyed This week's episode with Art and Rick, better known for creating. East Bay, the catalog that we all damn near loved and carried around with each other during middle school, high school, wherever you carried the book, because i know I did. And it's crazy that I've got a chance to really sit down with them and talk to them about their journey. um You know, as you know,
01:06:41
Speaker
I'm just going to say it like you'll see that they're making arounds and talking to a lot of other sneakers creators and other sneaker podcasts because what the real story behind the book and and helping the Little Warrior Foundation, it means a lot to them and they want to spread the word. um doing book tours and, or, you know, being part of somebody's like media tour is a huge honor because I never thought that I would be, you know, in that type of position. So it's really dope. And I'm hoping, you know, other people are getting that chance to really pick their brains and kind of like ask these questions that we grew up wishing that we could ask because, you know,
01:07:29
Speaker
when I was looking through the books and I mean I mentioned it like I was looking at it more of like you know how did they get this this high definition pictures back in like you know 2000s like I was I was so enamored and then I got to ask a question I've been dying to ask that the sneaker question the the jumping the dunking sneaker question I've been dying to ask somebody that question because it felt like I would bring up this shoe And nobody knew what I'm talking about. Or people would know what I'm talking about because they collected East Bay magazines or East Bay catalogs as well. And they'd be like, yo, I remember that, but I never bought it. So hearing how some of those like interesting tech, like this these things were implemented into the catalog and how it was mainly to actually...
01:08:22
Speaker
use their function. It was never like, and I always thought it was like a scam at the end of the day. Like I would just be like, yeah, that's a scam. That's not, you're not going to be able to jump higher. You're never going to be able to make cuts and and hearing them, you know, do like they had people in the offices earnestly looking to try to help athletes become better. And i think that's really, really dope. And so, uh, I still have to read this book.
01:08:51
Speaker
I'm not a big reader. I'm trying to get into reading. everybody And implore everybody now, especially in 2026, please, please start reading more. I have a ton of books. I have to read Salehi's book. I have to read this book. I have to read, you know, i have to finish reading Russ Bankston's book, which I mentioned in the episode. ah I'm trying to get more into reading. I feel like we're living in a world that's not well learned in my opinion. Um, and so I have to be a better example of this. And so instead of playing a a video game on a train, i will be reading books again because I've tried before, but you know, I'm, I'm, I'm a terrible reader is what I'm going to say. That's all it is. A lot of the stuff that I'm just like, i recite and like, like I,
01:09:45
Speaker
kind of give knowledge on are stuff that I'm well learned on, but I strictly go to the internet for. So picking up a book and and and kind of relying on the facts and the, and the, the, not myself doing the research, but somebody else's cited sources is very, very important. And I think we need to get back into that. So I implore everybody to pick up the book, pick up the book of East Bay.
01:10:17
Speaker
um a lot of this, like, you got to learn about the stuff that you grew up on before it even became a thing. And this is very vital. Same with Russ Bankston's book. Same with Salehi. Like, these are chronicles and and these are texts that should be around for a very long time. So I implore you. um After the end of the episode, you'll see that they said that they wanted to sign a book and tell and say You know, just a thank you for doing an episode. And I was extremely, extremely honored because I didn't have the book at the time. And they sent this out and it came to me in like a day or two. So when I got home, I was like, oh, they probably just signed it regular. No, they wrote.
01:11:04
Speaker
you know, a full um paragraph here where they said, hi, Hassan. It's my name. i Really enjoyed doing our podcast together last night. You make it fun.
01:11:15
Speaker
Let us know if you need anything in the future and best of luck on your podcast. Episode 268. That is a lot. That's what they said when I told them what episode it was. I think they said that. I think I kept that in and the edit. But Huge honor, like I said, and i'm I'm glad that they had fun. I know doing the media rounds or talking about books or or talking about something that you're putting out um and trying to not really answer the same questions you'll be getting by everybody um in a in a conventional way where you can make it fun for yourself is something that, like, you've got to condemn them. Like, it's got to... Not condemn them. You've got to you gotta give praise on on them because they...
01:12:01
Speaker
are troopers like i was like i was like you know sometimes you you're wondering like oh what are other people going to be asking because you know you're they're in the the business of like i got to talk to a ton of people i'm not trying to make it seem mundane or repeat the same answers so they were just game with whatever question i had for them and they weren't really trying to get some certain things across. like I'm pretty sure you'll hear some of the same answers when you listen to anybody else's podcast and
01:12:36
Speaker
I was looking for the unconventional and questions. I was looking for stuff that I felt like somebody else wasn't going to talk about. And just to kind of give space so that we're all not putting out the same things. And I might be the only person that might call this out when you hear this, right?
01:12:53
Speaker
By the time of this episode, this is, I think, the fourth podcast that had them on. And we're kind of like consecutively putting... the episodes out to bring awareness to this great, great book. So,
01:13:08
Speaker
so i If you're listening to this and you're like, I'm not gonna listen to you know anybody else's, I implore you, give grace ah and check out everybody else's stuff too because maybe they ask an unconventional question. Maybe like we'll we mix and match a little bit here or maybe we'll get a full 360 story if you listen to you know two or three other episodes that they're on. ah a and Rick are great people.
01:13:34
Speaker
I'm hoping to have them in studio and have a ah larger conversation about the things that they got to witness. So maybe that will happen down the future, but I'm excited that they were excited to do an episode of My First Kicks. And they were game, and this book, i like I said, i will I'm going to be reading this. I'm looking to to learn as much as I can about East Bay and ah the world of Mail to Order that does not really exist anymore. um
01:14:07
Speaker
So really appreciate y'all for, for tuning in this week. If you want to help out the podcast, you know what we're going to do. We're going to do the Patreon shoutouts. And you too can get a Patreon shoutout by becoming a patron at patreon.com slash myfirstkicks. So let's start it off. We got Samia. We got Jordan Kaiser. We got Derek Lipkin. We got Derek Hawkins. We got Plox. We got Jesse Jesse G. We got Brett.
01:14:34
Speaker
We got Sean Hates You. We got Ross Adams. Adam Neustadter. And we have... I always miss i always miss one person. um And I'm sorry. I think I'm going to have to keep going after that. I'm so sorry. But I really appreciate everyone for pulling up. I'm i'm going... like Right now, I'm at 11 patrons. Once we get to 15, I will drop... I will promise you this...
01:15:04
Speaker
Because i think I have the topics ready. I will drop a solo episode 15 patrons um or 20, whichever comes first. If it just goes straight to 15 and boom, or if it goes straight to 20, boom. um i will I will put that together. i have a lot of topics I've been mulling around and tweeting about and trying to figure out because these are not easy. Shout out to every other person, ah that every other podcaster that can sit down and just,
01:15:34
Speaker
straight up do a solo podcast. You know, Joe, Sogjig, lot of those guys that just like sit down and you know, go straight forward. Oh, shout out Greg and and the Sneak This podcast. But like, this is, oh and of course, shout out, you know, Deontay. That's the the leader right now in solo podcasting. But it's it's an interesting, um dynamic of like where I, what I'm seeing and what I'm witnessing. And then also just trying not to you know, get into my head about it a lot. Um, and hoping that the changes that I'm seeing and, and instilling is being spread across sneakers currently. And I'm a voice in sneakers, hopefully that to other people, uh, really appreciate everyone that,
01:16:31
Speaker
like when I go to events or something like that, they come up to me and tell me how much they enjoy the podcast. Like it's a really new thing. And I like being transparent on here about what's been going on. So like, I appreciate everyone that, that taps in with me, that, that pulls up the podcast. Um, like I don't take this for granted at all. And, um,
01:16:55
Speaker
extremely excited of what other episodes besides interviewing, you know, the creative creators of East Bay, like crazy, but without like what, what I have in store for y'all this year is very dope. And what I have in store for, if this is your first time, you know, watching this podcast, you should check out these two episodes here, subscribe to the podcast by hitting that button. you know what we say each week, wear your kicks.
01:17:22
Speaker
Peace.