Transcript
Rafael Perez-Segura: Hello, Pat.
Pat Watkins : Hey, Rafa. I'm just having a little coffee.
Rafael Perez-Segura: Enjoy it.
Pat Watkins : and and so excited that we have grabbed this time again to like think tank together, which is what I see this space as being.
Rafael Perez-Segura: I love it. i love it. Yes, I love this. It's a Saturday morning, and i just thoroughly enjoy these conversations.
Pat Watkins : Me too.
Rafael Perez-Segura: And so before we get into it, just to welcome you all Talking Pedagogy with Pat and Rafa, where we talk about Reggio-inspired practice, pedagogy, everything in between. and And yeah, I'm just so happy to be here with you this morning, Pat.
Rafael Perez-Segura: We were talking about, before we recorded, you know, the topics to cover. And one thing that came up for you was the role of the Tellerista. And recently we hosted someone who was curious about the Tellerista role.
Pat Watkins : Yes.
Rafael Perez-Segura: And so it's prime time for us to talk about this. So what's coming up for you?
Pat Watkins : Well, I'm working with several different schools on creating there for the first time. having a space that is designated as their atelier.
Pat Watkins : And so that has been a very interesting thing to see how the atelierista is going to be working. And it's different for every school, right? But like with First Prez that we sometimes give a shout out to where my wonderful friend Jennifer taught for many, many years, and it's a wonderful, wonderful school.
Pat Watkins : They visits where they have appointments, right, with different classrooms. And so throughout the week, the Atelierista, if I hope I'm getting this right,
Pat Watkins : If not, please, First Prez, anyone from First Prez can write us and let us know. But you have appointments and then you also have studio time. So you're doing both in-class work and studio time.
Pat Watkins : So the ones that I'm working with now, the two schools who are just starting to embrace this, one is literally changing their gross motor room. into, and they're they're not going to stop gross motor. They're actually going to keep the kids outside more.
Pat Watkins : Shout out to that. But they using this room as it's going to be just designated for, you know, art and working with the art teacher.
Pat Watkins : And They're also creating a resource room downstairs where there will be a community board for the teachers and the all the staff to be posting certain and responding to certain prompts.
Pat Watkins : So that resource room, they don't know what they're gonna call it yet, maybe the construction zone, or but constructing thinking, you know using pieces of loose materials to construct. So they're still coming up with the right name for that, but I found that very interesting. And some Atelieristas have to share their room as the resource depository as well for all loose parts. So there's all different ways that you see space being used by the Atelier.
Pat Watkins : mean, by the Atelierista. But I find it fascinating just watching the process of how the artist is going to work if you're fortunate enough to have a designated role like that.
Pat Watkins : So anyway, I don't know. That's a bunch of thinking and I haven't really thought enough about it. What I wanted to really share with you today about that, except to say that I'm watching the spaces being curated and things that are coming up for them as they're doing that.
Rafael Perez-Segura: Yeah, I mean, as hearing you speak, I can talk a little bit about the evolution of the Atelierista role at Mi Casita.
Pat Watkins : Yeah, please.
Rafael Perez-Segura: It's been interesting. So from the beginning, i knew Eva, the owner, knew that the Atelierista was really important. And Eva is a very gifted visual artist herself. She doesn't call herself that, but shout out to Eva. She's an amazing visual artist.
Pat Watkins : I didn't know that, but I'm not surprised.
Rafael Perez-Segura: Well, yes.
Pat Watkins : She seems very highly creative.
Rafael Perez-Segura: She is. And so in many ways, she was the Atelierista informally. and And what that meant in the beginning was, well, more context. i come from a very intellectual, academic background. Yes, I also teach.
Rafael Perez-Segura: I'm not someone who historically has worked with his hands a lot. I do it a lot more now, actually, ever since I started teaching in a Reggio-inspired way. It's really helped me reclaim a lot of my own humanity. and And it makes me think of how little I had when I was a kid, actually.
Rafael Perez-Segura: Like, I had art class, but
Pat Watkins : Me too.
Rafael Perez-Segura: I didn't have like it integrated into the school day. And I i see the impact down the line on myself in terms of just missed opportunities. I mean, I've lived a good life, but just it could it could have benefited from that.
Rafael Perez-Segura: But when thinking about Eva's role, she would just see or think about things in the space that I would never, would never have occurred in my solar system of thinking.
Rafael Perez-Segura: Like,
Pat Watkins : the
Rafael Perez-Segura: Like if I would come in like that comment from outside of the universe and be like, look at this.
Pat Watkins : Oh,
Rafael Perez-Segura: So trying to think of like, there's just so many examples. I mean, even just knowing how materials work with each other or, I mean, I'm kind of embarrassed to say this, but I didn't understand the difference between acrylic paint and tempera paint and like what the difference was and why one is just better for some things than the other, you know?
Pat Watkins : yes.
Rafael Perez-Segura: So the Italian Rista role in that position in that sense was really just basics. Oh, and get this, and I still struggle with this, I cannot tell you very quickly what two colors mix and become other colors.
Pat Watkins : Me either.
Rafael Perez-Segura: Okay, well, thank you.
Pat Watkins : either.
Rafael Perez-Segura: i feel a little more seen, but when but i what I talk with Eva, Eva's like, how do you not know this? Like, of course it's, of course, yellow. I mean, even right now i'm like doubting myself, yellow and blue is green?
Pat Watkins : No, I think yellow and blue is purple, isn't it?
Rafael Perez-Segura: Oh, gosh. me like Quick Google search.
Pat Watkins : Yeah, we need to, I think, you know, both of us, that's something that, I mean, I have to say that when I was a teacher, I did learn a lot I've forgotten a lot, but I never cared what it was because I would feel my way through it. I'm not one of those people who holds onto information in that particular way.
Pat Watkins : i just know if I so had those things in front of me, I would know which colors to start moving around to get what I wanted. Do you know what I mean? But what I will say is it's interesting to hear your relationship with Eva and how she's supporting you becoming more of a visual person and heightening those awarenesses. And I will say that so many children don't have the rich experience of, let's go back to calling it the hundred languages,
Pat Watkins : where they are given the opportunity to explore all of these types of materials to understand their properties, test their boundaries, and then be able to create new things so because they understand those things about those materials.
Pat Watkins : So that's the whole point, right? Of the heartbeat, which is to me, the heartbeat is the Atelier Rista. She is the one, she, he they, who are in charge of really helping teachers to understand how to layer in all of those experiences and how to create the expectations for each material so that you're not rushing, but you're giving children the time to really explore the properties of each material. And so that is that is something that I find so valuable.
Rafael Perez-Segura: It's so viable. And also confirming yellow and blue does make green.
Pat Watkins : Okay, I'm so sorry. i thought it was purple. What makes purple? Red and...
Rafael Perez-Segura: A blue?
Pat Watkins : Yes, red and blue.
Rafael Perez-Segura: Okay.
Pat Watkins : Red and blue. Oh my gosh, Rafa. Thank you for teaching me that or reminding me of that.
Rafael Perez-Segura: Well, park but is so but this is very interesting from a bigger lens of like what we choose to teach and why. And why does it matter that I know or don't know it makes green?
Pat Watkins : Yes.
Rafael Perez-Segura: I think it matters for children now and for me in that if I don't know how to make green, it really limits them my ability to express myself.
Pat Watkins : Yeah.
Rafael Perez-Segura: And if I limit my ability to express myself, then it's harder to be deep to, to connect deeper with my humanity over time. Like that for me is what art is all about.
Pat Watkins : i
Rafael Perez-Segura: And so how can that not be an integral part of it? Just as much as knowing your numbers, just as much as knowing your letters, like that's really like, it's very specifically a big reason that the arts are so important.
Pat Watkins : Thank you.
Rafael Perez-Segura: And the arts also mean so many different things, like the visual arts, the plastic arts, So i'm i'm just just come such an appreciation. And at the same time, working with Eva and now working with our current atelierista, Nicole Costa, who's also an amazing visual artist herself.
Rafael Perez-Segura: She was invited to Cannes last year.
Pat Watkins : Oh my gosh, how wonderful.
Rafael Perez-Segura: can Google her. She's an amazing documentarian. Follow her. Shout out to her.
Pat Watkins : oh yes, for sure.
Rafael Perez-Segura: I'm now offering ideas to teachers who are newer to this. that are not necessarily the same things I've done in the past, but I can tell I'm taking things I've done in the past that I've learned from Eva, that I've learned from Nicole, and then offering to other teachers ideas.
Rafael Perez-Segura: Now, not nearly to the depth still as as Nicole and Eva, but it's just really cool for me and my own development.
Pat Watkins : Yes.
Rafael Perez-Segura: I feel I've reclaimed a lot of my own connection to my deeper self because that. the Italia Rista role is, it is multifaceted. It does depend on the stage of the organization.
Pat Watkins : Absolutely.
Rafael Perez-Segura: I mean, right now, the Tellurista, Nicole is offering a lot of the initial ideas in terms of the integration of arts, but the goal, which is very explicit with the team is we all need to learn over time so that we are coming up with more ideas ourselves, right? Creating that collective capacity.
Rafael Perez-Segura: to engage in the arts. And in that way, Mi Casita does not have its own atelier per se. We don't have that space, but we the whole space is supposed to feel like an atelier is the aim for us. So I'm just so grateful. i think it's such an important role.
Rafael Perez-Segura: In this case, we we do have a person, but sometimes it can be a teacher who happens to be very strong at the visual arts as well.
Pat Watkins : It is.
Rafael Perez-Segura: So there's just many ways it can look like, as you were referring to before, and it's indispensable, in my opinion, to any
Pat Watkins : Yeah.
Rafael Perez-Segura: Reggie inspired or any early childhood program, regardless of philosophy.
Pat Watkins : Any early childhood program. I think that goes back to how if you can't be a really... um ah completely inspired or influenced regio curriculum approach, you can still take these, some of these tenants and find ways to enrich whatever it is you're doing, by studying some of these, these tenants and definitely that one, uh, the hundred languages and how can you bring more arts and more ways for children to express themselves, into your space.
Rafael Perez-Segura: Mm-hmm.
Pat Watkins : Uh, I for me, I have to say, has having a background in the arts and wish wishing that I had had more experience and exposure to the arts growing up in school, which we I never was in a place until I went to School of Fine Arts that had an art teacher. But then even then, because I was in the dance track, I wasn't able to you know take advantage of that. So.
Pat Watkins : Just feeling always like I wanted it, but not having it.
Rafael Perez-Segura: Thank you.
Pat Watkins : And then getting to work with young children and having that hands-on time. I mean, I literally would find myself gravitating towards the easels, which I think we've spoken about before as being a very important thing for you to have in your classrooms.
Pat Watkins : It allows so much for collaboration with young children standing next to each other, sharing their ideas. It's a very natural space for them to start doing that and to start collaborating artistically together. And I i saw it happen with three and four-year-olds It was magical. So again, i think when we think about even if you don't have an Atelierista, what are some of the simple things that you can do? And that is we want always to allow children to have some autonomy and some choice.
Pat Watkins : So thinking about your environment as the third teacher and going back to where is the where are those art materials and supplies going to be located? Can children have easy access to those supplies?
Pat Watkins : And have you layered it in so they know what the expectations are? Can they wash their brushes themselves? Because the easels are very close to the sink if you're able to do that.
Pat Watkins : And if you're not, what other creative way can you have for children to have some of that independence and take ownership of the art materials? But all of those things are really important. And that is what oftentimes the Atelier Arista will do with teachers is to help them understand how to introduce in their day throughout their year these materials so that when projects are happening, the children have had some exposure and can use some of these materials in those ways to support the project work that's happening.
Pat Watkins : It's just so important.
Rafael Perez-Segura: Yeah, the Atelier Risa's also sense of space can help a lot organizing the classroom in general. that's how That's how our Atelier Risa is collaborating with our teachers right now. Because it's it's not everyone has developed the skills, including myself, to very effectively address organization and as it is as it pertains to being accessible to children in the classroom. That's also aesthetically pleasing.
Rafael Perez-Segura: It's something I'm still working on.
Pat Watkins : Yes.
Rafael Perez-Segura: And some people just have it as a much more developed skill. And so, but we can all grow. So that's another, at the moment, really important part of the job of our Atelierista.
Pat Watkins : ah ah Agreed. Agreed. And I'm excited this year because i'm I'm actually getting to be a thinking partner for For three different artists, and I'm learning so much from them, but also um helping to guide them in thinking about how to build those connections to the overall community.
Pat Watkins : And also, you know, as a thinking partner, how to make some of the choices of what you're bringing into your space and then what how you're communicating that to the overall community.
Pat Watkins : community of of what it is that your goals are and how you're going to reach those goals with them. So yeah, being a thinking partner with artists is like, for me, one of my and greatest joys.
Rafael Perez-Segura: Yeah. And another thing that we, our Atelierista helps coordinate is the organization of our loose parts. We've come up far away, a long way with this.
Pat Watkins : Yes.
Rafael Perez-Segura: And so in a practical sense, one may not have an Atelierista, but saving like plastic bottles to then hold. hold a loose parts, start making one's own library.
Pat Watkins : Mm-hmm.
Rafael Perez-Segura: And of course, if you're in New York City, you're ah we're welcome to reach out to Mi Casita see what we're doing. We're not necessarily the exemplar, but we are in example, what to do.
Rafael Perez-Segura: And yeah, it's just such a multifaceted job that is, just provides so much richness to to the program.
Pat Watkins : Yeah. And a shout out, I don't know if any of you were able to hear Randy Weingarten. She was talking about how much more is needed in education right now. Randy Weingarten, who is the president of the UFT t was on NPR.
Pat Watkins : If you want to Google it or ask Amazon to play it for you, or I'm not, not Amazon, but Alexa played it for me yesterday, even though the show was over.
Pat Watkins : Brian Lear, was speaking with her. And she really got into how important, what some of the tenets that Rafa and I are talking about that have become missing in our public schools and the critical thinking and problem solving and the time for that. And I think that is really what the approach to having this Atelierista and these exposures to all these different materials and the collaboration that naturally happens in a Reggio Emilia experience
Pat Watkins : framing brings children into those spaces to have those types of richer conversations and problem solving experiences. So you didn't catch it, listen, I'm not going to speak much more about it, but except to say the, how important our public schools are and how much more is needed in giving ah all children these opportunities.
Pat Watkins : That's what I would say.
Rafael Perez-Segura: Yeah. So the other thing I would just say about the Tellurista and their role is we had a community curriculum day last Saturday and i collaborated with Nicole to figure out what is an art experience that we can do with the families to connect the pedagogy, like experience the pedagogy that we have at the school and working with Nicole and with Eva, we came up with, and with the head teachers as well. So this was like a big conversation.
Rafael Perez-Segura: We came up with the idea of having families use loose parts to Well, decorate is not the right word, but I guess it's the word that comes up for me now, decorate the frame. But thinking of their child that's not the right word but i want to say like intentionally put objects on the frame that remind you or connect to your child and then with your child choose what they want to put inside of it so it could be a photo it could be like a leaf it could be drawing that they would want to share with the rest of the class that's going to stay in the costume so now they're coming in and we have these this gallery uh this beautiful gallery of really eccentrically framed
Pat Watkins : Oh, wonderful.
Pat Watkins : Oh, I'm going to run down and have to see that.
Rafael Perez-Segura: Images and the score.
Pat Watkins : That sounds beautiful, Rafa.
Rafael Perez-Segura: Yeah, yeah. It's gorgeous. And also connecting.
Pat Watkins : I love that idea.
Rafael Perez-Segura: Yeah, so I don't know. It might be the thing we do next year. I don't know. ah But I also like surprising families.
Pat Watkins : Right.
Rafael Perez-Segura: So...
Pat Watkins : The framing reminds me of we had a ah designated frame in our classroom and it was just we would kind of in conversation with the children talk about an art piece that somebody was working on in the classroom that should go up in the frame. And it was revolving, but it was just a way to kind of shine.
Pat Watkins : on a child that had done something that was excited about their art piece because we did allow them to work in an ongoing way. So sometimes a piece could go on for quite a while, like for several weeks, a child might be working on a collage piece. And so having that frame in our classroom was just a way to shine light on the importance of a child's piece and their work.
Pat Watkins : But I love what you just said. That is glorious.
Rafael Perez-Segura: It fell and felt glorious.
Pat Watkins : I want to see pictures. Yeah.
Rafael Perez-Segura: Oh, yeah. I'll also send you pictures. I will.
Pat Watkins : Oh, I'll have to just run over there.
Rafael Perez-Segura: That too.
Pat Watkins : That too. Yeah. You're not that far from me, but, but all of these things, I love too, that what you're pointing out is, is taking time to create real and celebrate beauty and aesthetics is so much a part of this.
Pat Watkins : And I think children respond It's incredible. Adults, all people respond when they walk into a space that has been, i like to say, feng shuied, where there's a flow, where there's a feeling, where there is an energy that has been created, that that you feel it when you walk in and you can be comfortable and And so at this point in the year, I'm always trying to poke at teachers to say, you know, where are you gravitating? And think about the why.
Pat Watkins : Like, is what is it in the environment? And oftentimes it has something to do with light or... Yeah, all all different kinds of things it can be, but but be cognizant of it because the beauty that we're trying to create with all of this wonderful art and these different materials and the way that we're stepping into using them in the Reggio Emilia way, it's just, it's indicative of this entire way of working. And so raising your awareness to how you feel when you walk into a room and and the aesthetics and the beauty is really important.
Rafael Perez-Segura: Yeah, there's something to be said about vibes.
Pat Watkins : And Rafa looks like he's going to be vaping everybody. So I just want to say that. But every time he holds his new mic up, I'm like, oh, my goodness. I know that you don't vape. What is that?
Rafael Perez-Segura: No, no, no.
Pat Watkins : But, yes, the vibe. You're very you're very cool looking today, Rafa. Anyway, I like your new mic. It's really nice.
Rafael Perez-Segura: Yes, i have have a new mic that is filters out my sound. It looks like a little square if you can't see it. And it has a light on it. And I'm holding it right to my mouth. So definitely we do not support vaping.
Pat Watkins : So I just keep... No, we do not. but
Rafael Perez-Segura: All right.
Pat Watkins : But anyway, i feel like Rafa, you know, we're we're like 21 minutes here and I'm i'm thinking this has been a really great conversation for me to keep thinking about all of these pieces that go into that role of the Atelierista. And if you don't have one, how do you also designate perhaps somebody who has some of those skills and talents that is in your community and, and, and elevate them to being a support.
Rafael Perez-Segura: Exactly. and ah and also considering who in your neighborhood or what organizations in your neighborhood are actually artists that might want to collaborate with you. So for example, we do have a clay, we have a, what do you call it? A pottery space nearby and we've collaborated with them before we had a more formal atelier stand that was always very helpful.
Rafael Perez-Segura: I mean, even asking for tips of like, what do you, how do you work with clay? How would you introduce it A resource I'd like to share also for anyone who wants to be an Italian Arista or just grow that part of themselves more is, i think it's called the language of art And there's a second edition now.
Rafael Perez-Segura: Let me just, let me just, let me just Google this really quick to make sure it's true. But I really like this book because, well, first of all, I like books.
Pat Watkins : Yes, you do.
Rafael Perez-Segura: So if you don't really like books, then this might not be it. But the Language of Art book is really gives you step by step, for example, of like,
Rafael Perez-Segura: oh, you want to use clay? Well, these are the things to consider. This tends to be the developmental order you might do it in. You want to do paint? How would you, you know, so it's pretty, it holds your hand many ways.
Pat Watkins : o
Rafael Perez-Segura: And it's called, okay, so I found it. It's the language of art inquiry-based studio practices in early childhood settings. There is now a second edition. So, but the first edition might be less expensive to get.
Rafael Perez-Segura: So I have the first edition.
Pat Watkins : Oh, how wonderful.
Rafael Perez-Segura: right
Pat Watkins : i wish I'd had that.
Rafael Perez-Segura: So,
Pat Watkins : That sounds like a really great resource that that all teachers should be aware of.
Rafael Perez-Segura: right
Pat Watkins : So thank you for sharing that.
Rafael Perez-Segura: Yeah, it's a I shared it. i ah ah gave it to Maya Tellerista, and she's found it very useful because she doesn't have a formal background in education, so it's kind of a bridge of those two worlds.
Rafael Perez-Segura: And so it's been really informative. So highly I highly encourage you to check it out, everybody who's listening.
Pat Watkins : Well, now that I realize I don't still remember what colors to mix to get other colors, I think i' I'm going to run to get that book because I need to know that.
Rafael Perez-Segura: and Well, that book probably won't tell you what colors it makes, but it will tell you what to do to figure that out.
Pat Watkins : That sounds good. I'll take that. I'll take that. Now, I, I'm, you know, it's going to be Thanksgiving soon. And one of the things that I do for Thanksgiving is all of my guests are invited to do an open-ended art project.
Pat Watkins : It's just a fun thing to do.
Rafael Perez-Segura: Okay.
Pat Watkins : And some of the art that is left behind is just incredible, but it's a, it's just a way to get adults to play again. And I think that all of us need those invitations, right? So that we keep ourselves into that space of like exploring materials, exploring artistic thought and ideas and pondering.
Pat Watkins : And we we usually only have one person who won't participate. And it's because they don't have the... The interest, A, maybe, and I want to be, you know, that's okay.
Pat Watkins : Or they don't have the confidence because they haven't been given the opportunity to just be process and not product oriented.
Rafael Perez-Segura: Very interesting. e Well, with that, let's start let's start moving into just next steps or just like a summary for you, Pat.
Pat Watkins : Yes.
Pat Watkins : Let's do it.
Rafael Perez-Segura: What is coming up for in this conversation? What are you looking to explore next or would encourage others to explore next who want to delve deeper into this idea of the Italian Rista? Yeah.
Pat Watkins : I just like the resource that you shared. In summary, I would say we all... have artistic abilities and creative sides to ourselves and finding those resources to help give you the confidence and the background knowledge that maybe you didn't get growing up will make your work with children so much richer.
Pat Watkins : So i and I invite you to to really step into that yourselves. And if you're lucky enough to have an Atelierista, enjoy learning from them.
Pat Watkins : And, uh, that's, that's about it. That's all I would say.
Rafael Perez-Segura: And yeah, and for me, this conversation reminded me of something I've learned more and more, which is to think less in what is the art project we're going to do and more in what is the material we're going to explore and see what happens.
Rafael Perez-Segura: So, and how, and went and for me at first, it had to be really simple.
Pat Watkins : you
Rafael Perez-Segura: I'm like, we are just using blue Tempera paint.
Pat Watkins : Right.
Rafael Perez-Segura: And, and then i gave paper and brushes and and noticed they were making different lines and some made circles, which is where my inquiry went during that year, maybe it's like four years ago.
Rafael Perez-Segura: So anyway, that's what encourage everyone to be, to keep it simple and focus more on the material you might want to explore and list some of what you're going to do or make, what the product, going back to the emphasizing process over product, that'll be my big takeaway.
Pat Watkins : Yes.
Rafael Perez-Segura: And yes, I encourage you to get the book from the library or online somewhere and but benefiting your local booksellers if you can.
Rafael Perez-Segura: And i yeah, that's that's where I'm landing at right now. And that's great. that This was a pretty focused episode considering how sometimes we really go into tangents.
Pat Watkins : Yeah, I went on a few. But, well, I think that this was a great place for me to be today as I'm continuing my work as a coach with Connecting the Dots and Early Childhood Education to really keep thinking about how to support the Atelieristas and also every teacher in finding their creative side.
Rafael Perez-Segura: That makes it great. That makes it interesting.
Pat Watkins : And i I just love that, ah ah again, that you share that resource. And shout out to Mika Sita. for their fifth year.
Rafael Perez-Segura: Woo!
Pat Watkins : Well, for Rafa's fifth year of being there as the education director. I think it's maybe Mikasita's sixth year.
Rafael Perez-Segura: Yeah, I think, yeah.
Pat Watkins : And for the Reggio approach to really start to have its its place now, and that's such a beautiful thing. So,
Rafael Perez-Segura: It's taken a lot of tending and cultivating and and it's every year gets richer and richer.
Pat Watkins : it does.
Rafael Perez-Segura: So yay.
Pat Watkins : Yeah. Yay.
Rafael Perez-Segura: And just to let everyone know that show notes, you will see a link to a Google form that you can fill out if you want to connect with us. And as Pat mentioned, we also do consulting through Connecting the Dots.
Rafael Perez-Segura: And so you can also reach out out to us through that if you ever want to. have that type of collaboration and relationship with us, you can also reach out to us very informally with any thoughts or questions you may have.
Pat Watkins : Yes.
Rafael Perez-Segura: Anything else you would add, Pat?
Pat Watkins : No, except I realize we're matching today.
Rafael Perez-Segura: with
Pat Watkins : We're both wearing blue and.
Rafael Perez-Segura: Oh, yeah, blue, purple. My favorite color is indigo. What's your favorite color?
Pat Watkins : Yeah, I would say probably that is my favorite color as well.
Rafael Perez-Segura: just
Pat Watkins : Yeah.
Rafael Perez-Segura: got goosebumps.
Pat Watkins : Oh, my gosh.
Rafael Perez-Segura: I did not know this about you.
Pat Watkins : So much. We still have to learn about one another.
Rafael Perez-Segura: Do I know how to make indigo?
Pat Watkins : And we invite you to keep learning with this.
Rafael Perez-Segura: Do
Pat Watkins : What did you say? What did you say?
Rafael Perez-Segura: I know how to make indigo? Not confidently. I want to say it's purple and blue, but...
Pat Watkins : Yeah. And I'm, see, now you're going to get me on another tangent because I'm working with an Atelier Rista right now who is thinking about how to show children how to make colors from things in nature, like with a thistle and mortar, you know, which things you can mash.
Pat Watkins : And so it's all fascinating to me. And, but yeah, I don't know what makes Indigo, but maybe that's what we should say at the next opening of our next section.
Rafael Perez-Segura: There you go There you go. What makes Indigo? That'll be their opening question.
Pat Watkins : Yeah. Yeah.
Rafael Perez-Segura: And how did I figure that out?
Pat Watkins : Yes.
Rafael Perez-Segura: I'm going to try to not use Google.
Pat Watkins : All right.
Rafael Perez-Segura: And then I want to try to experience it.
Pat Watkins : I think that's, that's great. Yeah.
Rafael Perez-Segura: and Unless someone copies or something.
Pat Watkins : Yeah. I just don't have the things at my my home I don't think to play with.
Rafael Perez-Segura: That's
Pat Watkins : I have quite a lot of art materials. Maybe I'll try it myself as well.
Rafael Perez-Segura: true.
Pat Watkins : Maybe we should challenge each other to figure out what makes Indigo by the next time we meet. But this time I think we should let everybody go because um you and I could sit here for another several hours, but probably...
Pat Watkins : People don't have as much time, but I'm glad they gave us some of their time. That makes me so happy that, yeah, thank you very much.
Rafael Perez-Segura: Yes, thanks for joining us.
Pat Watkins : Hope it was fun for you. And we'll continue to be vulnerable as we share what we know and what we don't know and and what we want to learn more about with you.
Rafael Perez-Segura: Yeah. Exactly. Well, with that, I will see you soon, Pat.
Pat Watkins : All right, Rafa, I guess I'll see you so soon.
Rafael Perez-Segura: Until the next time.
Pat Watkins : all right. Yes.
Rafael Perez-Segura: Bye.
Pat Watkins : Bye.
