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EP626: Marc Von Musser - How To Use Podcasts To Win Like Trump, Not Old Media and Ads To Lose Like Kamala
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“The magic isn’t just being on a podcast—it’s knowing your message, who to say it to, and what not to say.”
Let's welcome back Marc Von Musser as him and Nicky tackle a hot-button topic every business owner and thought leader needs to hear: the seismic shift from old-school media to the explosive power of new media.
If you’ve ever wondered why massive ad budgets and traditional media coverage don’t guarantee success—or how to win the game of influence without breaking the bank—this conversation is for you.
What You’ll Learn:
• The New Media Advantage: Why podcasts are dominating attention spans and how Donald Trump leveraged them to crush a $1 billion spending disadvantage in the recent election.
• Old Media is Dying: Six corporations control the narrative—but the audience is tuning them out. Learn why trust in traditional media is at an all-time low.
• Case Study: Trump vs. Kamala Harris: A deep dive into how Trump’s strategic podcast appearances reached millions of hungry listeners while Kamala’s outdated strategy fell flat.
• The Business Parallel: Why traditional ad spend is becoming a black hole—and how long-form, unscripted conversations on podcasts deliver real ROI.
• How to Win on Podcasts:
• The keys to picking the right shows.
• Crafting an authentic message that resonates.
• The art of the non-salesy sales pitch.
Podcasting is the platform to reach highly educated, affluent, and motivated audiences. Traditional media? A money pit. Podcasts? A golden opportunity for authentic connection, trust-building, and influence.
Special Opportunity: Get Booked and Get Paid Workshop
Ready to supercharge your business with podcasting? Don’t waste time on ineffective agencies or trial-and-error guesswork. Join Nicky and Marc’s two-day intensive workshop, Get Booked and Get Paid, happening December 27-28.
• The insider secrets to landing 720 podcasts per month.
• Crafting your message to convert listeners into clients.
• Proven strategies to add six to seven figures to your business—all without spending a dime on ads.
• Investment: $2,000 (a fraction of agency costs).
Sign up here – Seats are limited!
This episode isn’t just about politics or media—it’s about how you can harness the power of podcasting to grow your influence, income, and impact. Listen now to uncover the strategies top thought leaders are using to dominate in a changing world.
🔗 Follow Nicky on social media for updates and actionable tips.
Visit eCircleAcademy.com and book a success call with Nicky to take your practice to the next level.
Recommended
Transcript
Media Trust and Trump's Advantage
00:00:02
Speaker
Number one, big reason why traditional media with a $2 billion dollars advantage over Trump did not win, because number one, people lost trust in the media. In a world of uncertainty, we're tired of being lied to. So you can spend and spend and spend, but people don't listen and they don't watch. There's about six corporations that own all the media. Whoever pays for the ads controls the content. I'd listen to these speeches by Trump or Kamala, and I'd watch the news and watch how they would parrot and lie about what the person said.
00:00:36
Speaker
Welcome to the Thought Leader Revolution with Nikki Ballou. Join the revolution. There's never been a better time in history to speak your truth, find your freedom, and make your fortune. Each week, we interview the world's top thought leaders and learn the secrets of how they built a six to seven figure practice. This episode has been brought to you by eCircleAcademy.com, the proven system to add six to seven figures a year to your thought leader practice.
00:01:07
Speaker
Welcome to another exciting episode of the podcast, The Thought Leader Revolution.
Traditional vs New Media for Business Growth
00:01:11
Speaker
I'm your host, Nicky Baloo, and I'm back with my all-time favorite guest, Mark Von Musher. Mark, good to have you. Great to be here. This is going to be a fun topic. And um I know I watch a lot of podcasts and and news and different things. And I can tell you that nobody's having the conversation or looking at it the way that we're going to tonight. So very, very important. I wanted to introduce this topic because
00:01:39
Speaker
It's about framing how to go about winning at the game of business and what platforms will help you win. And we're gonna use a very powerful case study. Before we get to the case study, let's frame the debate.
00:02:04
Speaker
The debate is, are you going to use traditional old media based on an advertising model to try to grow your business, or are you going to use new cutting edge media based on free appearances on podcasts as a guest right to grow your business?
00:02:25
Speaker
and
00:02:28
Speaker
The case study we're gonna use is the recent election in the United States for president between Donald Trump and Kamala Harris. right And I think this is a very powerful way to illustrate this particular point because by now I think everyone knows Trump won and Kamala lost. And what everyone may not be aware is how unlikely this was because
00:03:00
Speaker
Kamala spent, raised and spent over $1.4 billion dollars between her and you know associated groups. She had 100% of the traditional media behind her. And she had all this dark money, at least a billion dollars that got spent without it being officially counted. While Trump only raised $400 million and he spent even less than that, traditional media was like 97% negative and against him.
00:03:28
Speaker
Um, and he didn't really have any dark money supporting him and yet he won. He won. So you want to win like Trump did, or do you want to lose like Kamala did Mark? And I'd love for you to step in here and stack on why you believe Trump won. And again, this isn't a political conversation. This is a media conversation from a media point of view on why Kamala lost.
00:03:59
Speaker
So let's let's break it down. There's a couple things here as well. um ah There's direct linkage to people running businesses as
Effectiveness of Traditional Advertising
00:04:09
Speaker
well. That's why we're having this conversation because right now there's a lot of the guru saying, oh, you need to spend more on on traffic. You need to spend more money on Facebook ads. You need to spend more money on YouTube ads. You should spend more, spend more, spend more. But we're looking at a glaring obvious time where that didn't work, and the question is not whether she outspent them. She outspent them by one to two billion dollars depending on who you listen to. Not only that, the the amount, we could even get into the censorship in the Google and the social media as well, which is something we didn't even talk about. So how does a guy win when he has 97% of every news anchor talking crap about somebody? okay So the very first thing that I want people to think about,
00:04:56
Speaker
um and And there are studies that support everything I'm about to say. This is not just my opinion. This is exactly what study after study you're showing. Number one, big reason why traditional media, why with a $2 billion dollar advantage over Trump, did not win? Because number one, people lost trust in the media. yeah In a world of uncertainty,
00:05:20
Speaker
We're tired of being lied to. Now guess what? There's studies out there showing that the media once hailed as the the most trusted profession on the planet, now is almost one of the lowest type of trust levels there are.
00:05:35
Speaker
So that's a big one. So you can spend and spend and spend, but people don't listen and they don't watch either. So the second thing that as well, most people realize, except for the people that are very, very, oh God, you know, they said it on the news, there's a small percentage and they're the same people that watch it and there's there's absolute clear agendas.
00:05:57
Speaker
Part of what people don't realize but that that it's now common knowledge is there's about six corporations, mega global corporations that own all the media. Whoever pays for the ads controls the content.
00:06:11
Speaker
And we've noticed that where we're being lied to constantly. Not only are we being lied to, they're gaslighting us where it's like, I listened to a speech by Trump or Kamala, doesn't matter, I've listened to all of them. I'd listen to these speeches and then I'd watch the news and watch how they would parrot and lie about what the person said.
00:06:31
Speaker
both ways. And I'm not stupid. I could look, that's not what he said. That's not what she said. And they're framing it very much like the lawsuit now against CBS because they repackaged Kamala's responses on
Rise of New Media Platforms
00:06:45
Speaker
60 Minutes. Once heralded is one of the most cutting edge truth revealing company or shows.
00:06:51
Speaker
And all of a sudden, we watched with our own eyes, heard with our own ears. We heard her response originally. That did not bode well because it was incoherent. So they put another response that was much more coherent. But the viewer is listening. we're like this is They're just lying. So when you have hundreds of lies in an order,
00:07:12
Speaker
Kind of like if you guys remember Baghdad Bob, Nick, you remember Baghdad Bob? It's OK. Everything is OK. Nothing is happening, you know, as bombs are blowing up behind them in Iraq. Right. And we're watching with our own eyes. And that's now what's happened to traditional media. Now, the second thing is, well, that people are waking up. We're tired of being lied to. Now, guess what happens in business as well?
00:07:38
Speaker
We've all spent money on programs that said one thing on traditional media and it didn't deliver. Now we have by comparison, new media.
00:07:49
Speaker
This is also very important because new media, and part of what you and I are doing, Nicky, with Get Booked and but Get Paid, is how to harness new media to get millions and millions of listeners and to create hundreds of thousands of dollars of revenue. But it is not in the old media, it is new media. And that's essentially what Trump did for free.
00:08:12
Speaker
And so what happens though is the same thing that you and I had been preaching now for about six months was about how the new media and podcasting put you in front of hungry audiences. So why are there millions and millions of people who used to watch the news? Why are they now on new media like podcasts?
00:08:31
Speaker
Joe Rogan, and Nikki, you know the know the numbers better than I do, but Joe Rogan did a podcast with Donald Trump and he spoke for, I don't know, three hours or something and got 30 million listeners that listened essentially to the whole thing. 50 million? 50 million on one platform, YouTube. If you combine all the platforms, it's over 120 million people. And part of it is because we can make up our own minds whether we're going to agree with them or not. I can't tell you how many times I hear people that say, wow, I listened to him and it's not what I thought at all. It's not what the media was telling me.
00:09:05
Speaker
And so what happens though is that people have an awakening. They're like, wow, I wonder what else they're lying to when we hear different people. Then it's like the other one. But Nikki, if he's getting 50 million listeners for free and then you have other people, he was on other podcasts as well. Yeah.
00:09:22
Speaker
He was getting millions of attentive listeners, ideal clients, new voters, which was his ideal client. He was able to influence the middle demographic of of undecided voters. He was able to get in front of independents and they were able to bypass traditional media, which had an agenda.
00:09:41
Speaker
How many, like by comparison, if he did Joe Rogan and had 50 million viewers and listeners, how many would he have had if he was on 60 Minutes or NBC or MSNBC or CBS? So I did a comparison. So there were five major new media podcasts that he was on. He was on more, but these are the big five. Rogan, Theo Vaughn, Valuetainment, ah Patrick Bet-David, Zenelle Poise and Aiden Ross.
00:10:09
Speaker
And um Kamala would go on 60 Minutes, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, ABC. None of the shows that she was on cracked a million views. So 60 minutes, half a million views. CNN, 400,000 views. MSNBC, 700,000 views. Now she went on a couple of podcasts, but they were not independent. They were people who were already a bit in the tank for her. Like Shay Shay podcast with Shannon Sharp got under a million views. And the um Call Her Daddy ah podcast, which is really a sex podcast,
00:10:45
Speaker
um It just normally, those those podcasts would be a lot more kind of open, but they were still in the stultified old media trying to push a narrative, and they got under a million views each. Rogan's podcast on YouTube alone got 50 million views on all the other podcasts over a hundred million. TheoVon, millions. Valuetainment, millions. I mean, I can look up the exact numbers, but Trump conservatively had 250 million views. Oh, plus, um x ah Elon Musk interviewed him on X.
00:11:16
Speaker
He had 300 million plus views.
Adapting Business Strategies to New Media
00:11:19
Speaker
Kamala was lucky if she got 5 million views on old traditional media. So this dwarf dwarfed, dwarfed.
00:11:27
Speaker
any attention she could get. And on top of that, because new media, at least new media the way these guys practice it, is is ah not agenda-driven, and it's long-form content, so there's no filter, there's no narrative that's trying to be pushed down people's throats, and there's no gaslighting the people. People like but flock to them and watch them.
00:11:52
Speaker
So who the hell watches a three-hour newscast? Nobody, but millions of people watch Joe Rogan for three hours. So this this is a game changer because, Mark, it didn't matter how much money she raised, it didn't matter how much money she spent, it didn't matter how much traditional media shit on him.
00:12:13
Speaker
because the people tuned it out. Now, there's so many people here that go, oh my God, the media's against us. But yeah you have to understand, Mark, I come from Iran, okay? And you gotta give the American people a lot more credit because in Iran, we assume the media was lying to us. We just assumed it. And right now, the American people are assuming the media's lying to them. They filter the truth out for themselves. They become smarter. They've been forced to think.
00:12:42
Speaker
in a more nimble fashion to get the facts for themselves. this This, from a point of view of both business and politics, should be a wake-up call to all kinds of marketers. Because if you're going and you're doing traditional Facebook ads or Google ads and trying the slick marketing message, nobody gives a shit, nobody's going to pay attention to you, they're going to tune you out, they're going to know you're lying.
00:13:05
Speaker
But if you go out there authentically on new media podcast as a guest and you have authentic real long form conversations, people are going to tune in and listen to that because the lack of filter there.
00:13:19
Speaker
is gonna make it difficult for anybody to lie. So they're gonna just assume you're being truthful there. They're gonna see that it's truth-driven and there's no gaslighting. There's no deeper agenda to try to sell them on a narrative. Now, yeah, you wanna sell yourself. Absolutely, people understand that, but they wanna see that you're being truthful first. That's what new media makes possible, and that's what old media, advertiser-driven media does not make possible.
00:13:50
Speaker
So it's interesting because the other complaint I heard from both parties left ah left and right was that the few very few um that Kamala was the very first time she never did a press conference where they allowed independent questions to be asked. So every question was preloaded that there there's a lot of people even within our own camp that said that she they had access to the questions ahead of time. So it's essentially scripted. softball type interview, and we really didn't learn much about her, right? No hard questions about her policies, about whether she's for fracking now or against it, whether or not she's, you know, when they asked her if she voted for Prop 36, I believe it was, um which was about a um
00:14:32
Speaker
making crime illegal, basically, and felonies again on theft, ah she did an answer. Now, by comparison, the reason people are flocking to new media and podcasts is because it is unscripted. It is real. Like it or not, that's up to you to decide. But if you know what you're doing in articulating your message, you can articulate a message and you have a platform that you can kind of go and speak your truth.
00:15:00
Speaker
And guess what? Not everybody's going to go agree with it, but it's not going to be censored. And so what happens, though, is a lot of times people are tuning out of the forms of censorship. And so that's a really key piece, as you guys are thinking about business, because with the huge audiences that you have now in podcasting, Nikki is is well, you know the the statistics on podcast guests.
00:15:25
Speaker
are people that listen to podcasts. Why, if I'm a business owner, why would I rather be on a podcast rather than running ads to traditional media or traditional methods? Why would podcasting be a great idea? Five hundred and four million people globally listen to podcasts. OK, and that number has grown tenfold since 2014.
00:15:49
Speaker
tenfold. Every year it keeps growing. okay Traditional media and even like ads on platforms like Facebook and Google, etc., that's stagnant or ah shrinking?
00:16:02
Speaker
Okay, and it's expensive. Like if you think about it, if you want to spend ads on traditional media and even on Google and Facebook, you're spending thousands to tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands a month. Going on podcasts is free.
00:16:23
Speaker
markets free. Donald Trump, so Kamala Harris, just as an example, is $20 million dollars in debt for her can on behalf of her campaign. $20 million dollars in debt, even though she raised so much more money than Donald Trump's campaign did. Donald Trump's campaign, by taking advantage of podcasting and not having to pay, has money in the bank.
00:16:47
Speaker
And they're in a position that Donald Trump jokingly said, hey, we'll pay off for campaign debt. Right. And that was, that was an epic troll in my opinion. I don't think he's going to do that. But the truth of the matter is if you're a businessman and you're going on shows rather than spending money on ads, this is free. This is free.
00:17:09
Speaker
Okay, now
Authenticity in Podcasting
00:17:10
Speaker
here's the deal. If you're a businessman or a businesswoman and you want to go on podcasts, you can't put the lens of being an old media slick marketing message. Let me send my people and they're going to read the talking points. The podcasters are going to kick your ass off the show in five minutes flat if you're coming across as salesy and marketingy.
00:17:29
Speaker
ah driven They want authentic, real conversations with real human beings. You do that, your business is going to be seen by them and by the prospects of, oh, these guys are for real. Rather than, okay, they're just trying to pitch a message. So this week on my podcast, I interviewed Pete Roberts, the CEO of Origin USA. Origin USA is leading the Renaissance in American manufacturing and textiles. they' they're They're out of Maine.
00:17:58
Speaker
And um they make jeans, they make boots, they make geese. It's phenomenal stuff. so but but But Mark, here's what I want to say to you, right? If this guy came on and just did a big pitch on Origin USA and it kicked him out in 10 minutes, but he came and he shared his story with me.
00:18:17
Speaker
He shared his personal story with me. And then he shared Origins, Origins story. It's kind of neat, Origins, Origins story. That's kind of fun. And that was that was that was powerful. and And he told me the story of how they got into manufacturing jeans. It's a big deal to them to make jeans. They want to sell a million jeans a year, right? Now they're selling a couple hundred thousand. And he said, nothing says freedom more than a pair of blue jeans.
00:18:41
Speaker
And I thought, damn, that's true, man. I mean, look at me, Mark, right now. I'm wearing my T-shirt and I'm wearing my blue jeans, right? Nothing says freedom more than then then then a pair of blue jeans, okay? And I said, yeah, that's good. And he said, outside of Origin USA, all the major gene manufacturers, their genes are being made by communism.
00:19:02
Speaker
By communism! Like, Mark, that hit me in the gut, man! I'm like, shit, the money I'm spending on these other brands, like, you know, the Levi's, the Wranglers, that shit's being made by China and China by communism?
00:19:16
Speaker
Fuck that. right Right away, Mark, he wasn't trying to sell me, but that was a powerful talking point by origin. right Obviously, that's a part of how they differentiate themselves and market themselves. But he told the story, and he told the story of how they bought the last major at scale Gene weaving plant in North Carolina and then they bought the last place in Georgia the last plant that had you know, you know ah Fabric weaving for jeans in in ah in in in Georgia, so North Carolina George He bought these and that's and I'm listening to the story and I'm going damn. I need origin jeans I gotta to buy me some origin jeans. I gotta buy from freedom. I gotta buy for freedom You know mark
00:19:59
Speaker
i I know you're listening to this and you know you're thinking to yourself, yeah you're a patriotic American, it makes you want to go, shit, damn me, I got to go buy me a pair of origin jeans made in the good old US of A. And I know everybody listening to that is saying the same thing. Now, if Pete went on and said,
00:20:16
Speaker
Well, Origin USA is an American manufacturing company and our genes are proudly made in the USA. And this is why I'm here on this show to get you to buy our genes. Who the fuck would have listened to that show? People would have would have tuned out in five minutes. Instead, he spent an hour and 24 minutes with me on that show. And that hour and 24 minutes more powerfully told the story of Origin than any ad ever could.
00:20:42
Speaker
Yeah. So the other part, too, is that the income for somebody listening to a podcast is the highest out of any demographic we can track. So you've got an educated, an intelligent demographic. You've got a wealthy demographic. And the one common core value of people watching um podcasts and listening to podcasts is they're in the want to improve their life category.
00:21:05
Speaker
exactly So that's really, really important to to think about. um There's a lot of platforms where that is not the goal. the the Some of the platforms out there, the problem is they're not looking to improve. They're looking for and entertainment. They're looking for a dopamine hit by doing nothing.
00:21:21
Speaker
So, so we have another big swing on new media, which is really, ah you know, podcasting really rises. The other part that I thought was interesting, Nikki, is its effectiveness to find new clients, get new clients, expand your business, increase your impact. So I just want to go over a couple of your numbers. We should probably break this down to the listener.
00:21:41
Speaker
Sure. When we started this, nobody was making money on podcasts. Nobody knew how to make money on podcasts. ah We went to work. We looked at it. We evaluated the psychology of the listener. We evaluated how it was doing, what needed to happen, and it took us a little time. But since we cracked the code, which we did, you've made, correct me if I'm wrong on some of these numbers though, you've done about $420,000 in new business. 425 now. We're up to 425.
00:22:09
Speaker
That's also $425,000 of income. and your ad spend is zero. correct Now, the other part is I went and calculated based on traditional online marketing, you would have had to spend um in when the market was really good and calls were only two to $300, which they're not now, you would have had to spend approximately $250,000 to get that much there. yeah And now if it got worse, it could be as much as four or 500,000 with traditional methods, but you had zero marketing spend. on that. So that's another one. But there's another thing that's really important. And the other part is now while Nikki and I are doing this conversation, there are potentially three to four million people as they're driving home and they're looking for something to improve their life. They're going to come across Nikki's message. They're going to come across, hey, here's how we transform. Here's how I get clients. Here's how I do it. Three to four million people because they're out there and his his podcasts are now out there in cyberspace.
00:23:10
Speaker
What would happen to the listener here if you are able to add a quarter of a million dollars half a million dollars a year? Every year you're getting three million people there next year You'd have six million and the year after that nine million and they'll taper off. I get it but that's so much better than just a quick hit on an ad and a deal. And it's like, because those are getting so expensive, they're less and less effective because the marketers have saturated the market. And so by comparison, guys, there's this very small window of opportunity with podcasting where if you know how to get your the right message on the right show at the right time and know who to talk to and how to talk to them, you can generate new clients.
00:23:52
Speaker
you can expand your business and massively increase your impact. That's what Donald Trump did by going on podcasts, by going on shows like Rogan, like Valuetainment, like Aidan Ross, like the Nelk Boys, like ah Theo Vonn, like going on X with Elon Musk.
Targeted Messaging in Politics
00:24:11
Speaker
He was looking for customers called voters and he found them there. Those people were there ready to listen and to decide whether they were gonna buy Donald Trump and his message and the purchase was to vote for him.
00:24:25
Speaker
And Kamala Harris went on old traditional media and spent a gazillion dollars and Got no return. So this is like, Mark, me going on podcasts for free, okay, and making 425,000 versus some of the people you and I know who are still spending organic dollars on you know old media here, traditional, tens of thousands a month. In that same period for free, I generated 425,000, they probably spent
00:24:59
Speaker
100,000 and they didn't even make their 100,000 back. That's right. yeah That's Kamala. I'm like Trump. They're like Kamala. So you can win like Trump and spend a little bit of money, but catch the wave of the new media doing it the new way and the way we teach, or you can stick to doing it the old way, the Kamala way and blow all your money, go into debt and not get it all back.
00:25:32
Speaker
Yeah, it's very true. And the one thing that I loved about podcasting is, again, if you know how to select your shows, because you do need to know how to get on the right shows. But if you think about it, I remember Romney said something and he got back when he was running for president, he got filleted for it, but he was absolutely right. He basically said 47 percent of the country is going to vote for the Democrat no matter what, and about 47 percent, 45 percent will vote for the Republican no matter what. Right. So he said the entire the entire campaign is really for that six to nine percent of undecideds or influencable voters.
00:26:05
Speaker
okay Now, there's other demographics that they've identified like the seldom them voter and different voters, the you know the the low propensity voters, they call them, low propensity voters, LPDs. They have those, but when Trump went on these podcasts, he went on podcasts where there were a large amount of undecided voters, libertarians, independents, young voters, the the low propensity voters. So he was able to target his message.
00:26:32
Speaker
And I watched several people say, you know what, I heard a lot of crap about Trump, but I watched him on Joe Rogan and you know what, I agree with him and I'm voting for it first time ever. And imagine what happened here. So he was able to target that in that middle.
00:26:48
Speaker
group of people that were making up their mind. Because the election, even though he won 312 electoral votes, he won the the first time he won the popular vote, it was still 51 to 47. It's still pretty close.
00:27:04
Speaker
And so what happens though, people don't realize, but the person out there you're trying to find, your buyer, there's many different ways that they are looking to make a decision. And when you can go, this is something that you and I talked about before, before we had the vaccine and the lockdowns and all of that, the average person could watch a Facebook ad, watch a webinar and spend 15 to 20 minutes listening to something and make a decision to buy a program.
00:27:32
Speaker
Well, something happened as people got more and more uncertain, as they got swindled more and more because they were over-promised and under-delivered, how the people they bought didn't deliver, they became more skeptical. Throw on top of that an economy, and don't listen to the politicians who tell you inflation's handled at 2%. That's nonsense.
00:27:53
Speaker
For those of you that still believe that, do yourself a favor. Go back and look at the price of gas food back in 2020 and then in right now. There is no mathematical equation you can get 2% to 4% inflation. okay And so what happens, they're trying to spew that to everybody. And people are like, what are you talking about? I'm paying 550 a gallon gas. And you're telling me that gas went down 5 cents? And so what happens is that you can target your people.
00:28:21
Speaker
Now, on a podcast, today, because of all of that uncertainty and gaslighting, the average buyer today has been shown to need almost three hours of information before they'll pull the trigger. Now, guess what's perfect for that? Podcasting.
00:28:36
Speaker
Very similar. I could go listen to you, Nicky, on a podcast and you did 30 minutes on this one. I'm going to listen to a couple more to see if you're really the same guy. Or are you a charlatan where you're jumping around to whoever you're in front of and try and speak what you think they want to hear? And so what happens is it's a perfect platform that lives forever and it gives the people as many as they want. I know one lady.
00:28:59
Speaker
She told me she listened to all 200 of the episodes that I did on Facebook Lives. 200 podcasts and and Facebook Lives. She listened every one. That's how uncertain they are. And that's why podcasting is such a good thing. But make no mistake. One of the biggest mistakes, the first biggest mistake Nicky that people make is they aren't on podcasts. That's the first mistake. The second mistake, they don't know how to do it. They get on the wrong podcast. The third is they don't know how to articulate their message. And they they come across as, oh, let's just chat. Chatting is not enough to get new clients. It's not, it's not. So here's the keys to success.
00:29:38
Speaker
on podcasts, on the new media platforms. First of all, you need to know what shows to get on. You need to know what shows to avoid going on and why. This is important because if you don't know how to do this, you could waste a lot of time and burn a lot of cycles and get zero results. Donald Trump had a podcast advisor. It was his son, Barron. His son, Barron, knew who all the major popular podcasters were.
00:30:06
Speaker
And he told Trump which ones to go on and which ones not to go on. And Trump went on Rogan, on Aiden Ross, on Theo Vaughn, he went on Valuetainment, right? He was on Nelp Boys, and he went on on X with Elon Musk, and he avoided you know, fluffy ones like Kamala Harris went on, like Shay Shay, Club Shay Shay, and you know, called her daddy, which is a sex podcast. And I gotta tell you, it just makes no sense for a presidential candidate to go on a sex podcast. As a result, the good shows that Trump went on amplified his message and helped him get more, more voters, more customers. And the shows that Kamala went on,
00:30:45
Speaker
Shit on her message and had her actually lose bigger than she should have so that's number one so you gotta figure this out and that's not easy to do on your own secondly and this is super important you need to know what to say and how to say it and just as important you need to know what not to say and why.
00:31:02
Speaker
When Trump went on shows, he had his talking points. like It was an organic conversation and all of that. But he had his talking points. He was going to talk about inflation. He was going to talk about the the border. He was going to talk about illegal immigration. He was going to talk about um building the wall. He was going to talk about ending the forever wars like in ah in ah in the Middle East and in in the Ukraine. And those were the points he was going to get into. And he was also going to make a powerful point about free speech and making sure that we preserve free speech and made about healthy so he had all his talking points he had the stories that he was gonna tell those a very particular way that he did this even though it was an organic conversation he always knew what he was gonna say okay and what not to say i was super important tomorrow on the other hand would go on shows and
00:31:51
Speaker
She did not say what she needed to say. What she needed to say was she needed to have a narrative for how she was going to be different from the current administration. She needed to have a narrative for ah why what she was bringing to the table was going to be more effective than Trump's. She didn't do any of that.
00:32:07
Speaker
she She just came in with a with a script that Trump is bad and that is not a good message, right? And for you to go on a show and just say, we're great. We're great. This is why it's not going to work. You can't just say what you've been saying marketing message wise. You need to have a powerful narrative. You need to say it in a particular way. Nikki, let me interrupt you for a second because there's another key sub point here I want to point out.
00:32:29
Speaker
Kamala went on a couple of podcasts, not many, but she was speaking to groups that would have already voted for her. right yeah So there was no benefit. And then Trump, he actually did not go on any of the extreme conservative sites because he knew they were going to vote for him too. He went for his ideal client, the low propensity voter, the undecided voter, the independent and the libertarians. And when you look at the margin of victory,
00:32:52
Speaker
You can very easily point saying the margin of victory was determined and pulled from those voters that broke for Trump because of what he said on the podcast.
Mastering Podcast Strategy
00:33:02
Speaker
It's the same thing as business.
00:33:05
Speaker
It's, again, being on the right show and avoiding going on the right to see. So you're saying he avoided going on the conservative ones because he already had those guys. So that's true, too. And the final really important point is you need to be able to ask for the sale. Trump asked for people's votes and you need to be able to ask for what you want. Your call to action has got to be very clear.
00:33:25
Speaker
and you you need to know how not to ask for it because if you ask for it the wrong way or wishy-washy way or you have several calls to action, you're gonna blow it and that's what Kamala did. Trump's bad and you know you shouldn't vote for him. No, I'm great and you should vote for me should have been what she said which is what Trump said and you need to learn how to do this for your business and why you gotta ask for it in a certain way.
00:33:46
Speaker
So yes, you want to think about avoiding old media 100% for all the reasons we said. It's advertising driven, it's expensive, it's scripted, it's ineffective and the ah ROI is going down. And you want to go on podcasts because it's long form. So there's no filter, you can get to the people that way. And and it's free and it's unscripted. It's becoming more effective all the time and the ah ROI is through the roof for all these reasons. These are the things that will work for you. And if you want to learn how to do this,
00:34:15
Speaker
and and and not have to figure it out on your own, I wanna just invite you. This is our call to action. Mark and I are doing the two-day workshop, December 27th and 28th. It's called Get Booked and Get Paid. We're gonna put the link in the show notes. Go and sign up for this workshop. This workshop is worth $10,000. We are offering it for just $2,000. That's it. It's never gonna be at this price again. Believe me, in the new year, the price is gonna go up. Take advantage of this. The dates are December 27th, 28th. Go do the show. The link will be in the show notes. Make sure that you do this and make sure that you take detailed notes of this entire conversation because we have given you gold. Gold that you can use right now, right now to improve your marketing and messaging efforts. But if you really want to take it to another level, attend this workshop December 27, 28. I'll give you the last word, Mark.
00:35:13
Speaker
There's one last warning I wanna throw out to people and because podcasting is becoming such a hot topic, um there's agencies popping up and they're charging between two and $20,000 a month like PR agents where they promise you two to five podcasts a month, right? Don't guys, don't fall for it. um Nikki, how many once you know the secret that we teach in the workshop, how many podcasts a month can you get on for free?
00:35:38
Speaker
720. 720 a month that is available to you. Now, granted, those aren't all going to be perfect fit, but it's a hell of a lot better than spending five grand, 10 grand a month to get on five. okay Don't do the agencies. And and guys, i've I've watched people that will do hundreds of podcasts, but they don't know what to say. They don't know what podcast to get on. They don't know how to articulate their message, and they get no sales.
00:36:04
Speaker
OK, so this is for less than one half of one month of those agencies, you're going to know what to say, who to say it to, how to enroll people and how to get as many clients off of podcasting as you want. And it's a whole lot of fun. The results that we're getting are absolutely mind boggling. And again, just as there is a transition in old media to new media, I watch the advertisers and the media saying, oh, my God, people aren't interested in politics.
00:36:30
Speaker
I swear to God, ah ratings are down 25 to 40%. No, they're not down. They're down on your lying shows. They are now moving over where they can get truthful responses. The same thing is happening in marketing. The marketing listener is shifting to podcasts.
00:36:47
Speaker
There's still some over there, just like there's still some on traditional media. But the ones that are listening, the ones that want better lives, they're moving over to podcasts, because they're tired of being gaslit. But don't mistake being on a podcast as the magic. The magic is knowing your message, knowing who to say it to, when to say it, what not to say, and all those different pieces we talked about. So looking forward to seeing you guys in December. But don't put this off. Everything has a lifespan in business and marketing.
00:37:16
Speaker
Blogging was big, websites were big, webinars were big, launches were big, and then they have a die because marketers will overdo it. We've got a very tight window of opportunity here. The people that get out in the front of it, they're gonna get the wind at their backs and they're gonna get a ton of clients before everybody else starts copying. So just some food for thought. Thanks, Mark. That's awesome. Guys, great being with you. And that's a wrap. We'll see you at the end of December. Bye-bye.
00:37:43
Speaker
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