Transcript
Speaker: I was in my third marriage. It had failed that. I had a son from the second marriage living with me, and he had two and a half years left of high school. And I walked outside, and I'm like, what am I fighting for? I did my job.
Speaker: I don't want to live life the way it is. So i said, you know what? I'm going to give a shot to fix all this so I feel like I was when I was in my twenty s
Speaker: This is the Home of Healthspan podcast, where we profile health and wellness role models, sharing their stories and the tools, practices, and routines they use to live a lively life.
Speaker: Cam, Corden, welcome to the Home of Healthspan podcast. I am looking forward to savagely chilling with you today, and we'll dive into what that means. But before we do, how would you describe yourself?
Speaker: I'm lively, engaged in systems and performance and testing everything on myself before I actually preach it to others.
Speaker: Yeah, I love the the guinea pig approach. personally. So as i got to meet Tim Ferriss last weekend at South by Southwest, and i got to tell him, look, there is no one other than my parents who's had a bigger influence on my life than you.
Speaker: You know, you've shaped so many things. And The biggest, honestly, is probably the four hour body where he really has been a guinea pig and he's testing all these different protocols. Here's what worked. Here's what didn't and sharing it. And it's so different than a lot of these people you'll catch on social media and others that preach a whole bunch of stuff that they don't adhere to.
Speaker: And it just loses so much credibility with me. And so as a fellow Guinea pegger, end of one experimentation that then is sharing that, I really appreciate that mindset and that approach.
Speaker: Yeah, it's fun. ah It is. It is fun. um Sometimes more than others, you know, the things that don't work can be painful and and not be quite as fun, but that's part of the learning process.
Speaker: And I'd love if we could just take a step back. to when I believe you were 44, this wasn't always the case. Like some some things were falling apart, breaking, and it kind of inspired this new phase, right? We got we got to redo. It's Lazarus, right? Like the old you has to die for the new you as we approach Easter, as we're recording this to to come up. So can you take us through what was going on at that time?
Speaker: It actually started at 37.
Speaker: You know, I was i always active training and I started even in childhood. But then later on, I've been training jujitsu for 25 years and I really pushed it with weights, everything. And at 37, all of a sudden, like it was a soreness, but it wasn't like muscular soreness. And it started...
Speaker: Like at 37, I was like, I might have to stop training, you know, but I still did because I'm very stubborn. And then it at 44, it was apocalyptic pain.
Speaker: I had the nerve damage in both hands. um Every joint hurt. I felt like I was 70.
Speaker: And I just, you know, I went to doctors, they failed me. I did have a nerve surgery. It helped some, but I waited too long. And just wasn't going to go down the route they wanted with the managed decline with pain pills.
Speaker: So I just, you know, it's kind of my life working out and I's not going just, you know, slowly die on meds. Yeah. So I just made a choice right then and there.
Speaker: And I want to dive into this choice and what it then led to, and not just for our listeners, but also personally. My father, i was just having lunch with my mom this weekend.
Speaker: And they're having to look at getting new furniture. You know, he's six, five. He's having a hard time stepping up. He's going to have to get SUV because his knees and his back hurt so much. And this was a guy when I got him, Tim Ferriss, his four hour body, he lost 65 pounds in his first year. He started running half marathons. Movement was his life. He's an active guy and he's just in horrible pain right now.
Speaker: And it is the default sick care model in our country is managed decline. Let's treat the symptom of like, okay, we we'll deaden some of the feeling without rewinding and saying, wait, why do we have to accept that? What what could we do to get back to the source and fix this? And that's,
Speaker: The medical system for large part is not going to do that for us. You had to go do this yourself, right? Like you tried the doctor route and it didn't help. You had to go create something, hence the Savage Chill, that reset all of this for you. So take us through, okay, I tried this with all the doctors, didn't work.
Speaker: Here's where it started and here's what I built from there. Yeah, it started, I think, with ozone. I bought the the ozone machine and I was doing the ozone. It works, but it was temporary.
Speaker: Maybe last an hour or so. um And from there, I think I still you know would do it, but it it was a good start.
Speaker: Yeah, it's not a panacea. it It is an additional thing you can do. Okay. Yeah, but it wasn't a fix. It was like temporary. I was able to at least sleep a little bit more because the pain, I couldn't sleep.
Speaker: And from there, um I did a lot of ah other maybe controversial things, but it does seem like for like really bad arthritis and people scoff at this, but borax really helped. I'm not going to lie. i mean, and for people that say, I'm not going to do that.
Speaker: Well, you can do a high dose of boron. It's basically the same thing that helped. Like simple things. I drastically upped my magnesium intake and I also started using DMSO on my joints with magnesium oil. So I was really overloaded with magnesium.
Speaker: It helped. What form of magnesium were you doing? Well, it it depends. I would do a couple of different ones. Mallet, I'd take it like twice during the day. And at night I have a sleep drink combination and that would have a high dose of glycinate.
Speaker: And then at night I would put the DMSO on with the magnesium oil. So I i had a tremendous amount. Then i expanded it to the cold plunge and that really helped.
Speaker: And i found that what everyone says on the internet, the temperature doesn't matter. It does. The colder, the better. That's what i was going to ask. So like temperature, duration, and timing, what did you find worked best for you on those three?
Speaker: In the beginning, you know, you you can't start so extreme. i think originally I started and it was like 32 degree water, just up above freezing.
Speaker: okay And I started a minute built up to eight minutes. Then it was 20 minutes. And then I was doing it to anywhere from each day from like 10 minutes to 30 minutes, right? Roughly around that. And then I got even in and the results were great.
Speaker: Then I got more extreme and I added like 110 pounds of Epsom salt into the cold plunge. So I got it really cold. Yeah, because you can get it below 32 then because it's not going to freeze. Oh, yeah, yeah, i well below 32.
Speaker: And I would go in with that temperature, like 16 was probably the average. And it was cold. And... That's really when like the kettlebell came out of it is that the warmup was so brutal.
Speaker: It was really brutal. And the only thing you could think of is like, I don't want to like sit here shivering for an hour. And you say, I need to generate heat and my body was starting to feel better. So I hit the kettlebell.
Speaker: And it was like just a, for survival instinct. And i found the doing it that order. is that it kills the motivation. You you don't need motivation to work out.
Speaker: You just want to do it. Like you're in there and you're starting to get cold and you're like, I can't wait to work out. ah You know, you're getting excited for it. And that's pretty rare because I'm going to be honest.
Speaker: I really don't like working out. I don't know too many people that really do. It's kind of boring. But with this, it's like you're you're jacked up. You're out. You have adrenaline pumping through you. You're like, let me do this. And you're doing it as fast as you can, going through the whole routine.
Speaker: What is your kettlebell routine? You know, there's swings, there's overheads, there's Turkish get-ups. Like, what is your... um You know, I find that, like, Turkish get-ups are kind of boring.
Speaker: I know people like it. And I used to do it, like, 20 years ago. But it was one of those things that I never really saw any benefit to. I think that for me, i like the ah certain days I just do deadlifts.
Speaker: It's a quick, you know, a quick one. I have a pair and I just knock them out and I just do my age. You know how many reps? Okay. It works for me.
Speaker: And then the other day I do swings, rows, the ah pullovers, lying down and curls. And it's quick.
Speaker: And I do three rounds of it and it's just nonstop. And it it it hits everything you need. And especially when you start getting older. I'm 49 now, but I just don't see really any benefit of doing any ah overhead exercises because it's it's unneeded for your shoulders.
Speaker: you know, it's you're more likely going to get hurt. Yeah, I pulled them out of my workout routine. They they just they didn't feel comfortable. I'd try. And so I've just had to adjust trying to work similar muscles without going into that movement. It just didn't ever feel good to me.
Speaker: But I think if you do those those those movements right there, you get probably 85 90% of what you need for functional strength. And I think this is a huge thing for listeners, for everybody. I mean, there is a subset of the population who are competitive athletes.
Speaker: they're They're out there competing. And you that difference between ninety eighth percentile 99.8 percentile matters For most of us getting to that 80% with 20% of the effort, because this is the thing, you know, I was a competitive swimmer.
Speaker: I swam. i was too at one time. Okay. Yeah. So, you know, do you want all American in college and what it took to compete at that level? Then I had two years off where I was in law school and then went abroad and was able to compete, having been out of it for three years. And instead of training six hours each day with weights in between, no time off, I was training four or five times a week for 45 minutes.
Speaker: And my time in the 200 changed by so two seconds. right I went from 150 short course meters to 152. And that... right and that In that world, that's a huge difference, right? yeah Changing two seconds in 200, you're totally, you can't compete at the same at all.
Speaker: But it just shows 99% of the work was for that tiny extra percent. And for life, we don't need that. No. No, and you could make the case. I think maybe you'll agree.
Speaker: Like competitive athlete is not good for your body. I would agree with that. um I mean, it depends on what the sport is. It's not good. You can, if it's your job, right?
Speaker: The amount of hours say LeBron James puts into recovery makes it overall, like it is good. He has the mindset piece. He has all this, but I think for,
Speaker: the normal person, and and I think this was important, the start of your story, of people around that age, mid-30s to mid-40s, especially men that had been athletes, they think training more and harder is the answer. They're starting to slow down. Oh, I need to lift heavier. I need to go to the, I can't cut back on this. And this is why we thought it's so important, our five pillars. It's not just the movement and fitness. You have to think about the recovery. You have to think about the mindset. You have to think about the the stress management, the social connection, and the nutrition. you You need all of them. And if we just are singularly focused, we actually are inhibiting our health and causing detriment to it.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. But I do think that overall, even even broader, is ah like if you go to like the gym and the personal trainer route,
Speaker: is that people measure a good workout is that they can barely walk. They feel like throwing up and they're trashing their nervous system. And like CrossFit is probably my favorite example is you're having exercise that you're supposed to train your nervous system on with cleans, which is a pretty skilled lift. Like you really have to know what you're doing to do a clean properly, but to have, um,
Speaker: middle-aged men and women going to do, giving them cleans for a time, you know, it seems a little insane. Like you're, you're asking for problems. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, for sure. So, I mean, I do want to get back to your journey. so you gave it like a great kind of protocol. Hey, I did this cold and then, you know, tried these outside interventions, then got into the cold, then got into the movement after the cold. And, you know, I saw somebody on Stephen Bartlett's, the diary of CEO that was saying the cold plunge, then the weight men actually see this massive spike in testosterone.
Speaker: When you do it in that order, there's something about the cold plunge. into weight training that does that. Did you even know that doing it or is it just like my body really wants to warm up? So let me just go do this.
Speaker: Yeah, was just, it really warms up and it just seemed the natural thing to do. I mean, like, why would you,
Speaker: You know, and it makes the workout really enjoyable because I'm in Florida and like the whole workout, I don't break a sweat. And if I did it the other way around, I would be drenched in sweat. Yeah. and I guess the the the science is out that you don't want to go work out cool.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, that inhibits the hypertrophy and and everything else there, depending what your goals are. So you can do it, right, for an NFL player or someone where it is really about recovery and like, look, I need to be able to get to practice and play the next day. I got a bunch of hits and I'm sore. The cold after, there's a different purpose and benefit there that that tradeoff could still be worth it.
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Speaker: When you came to this... You know, one of the things was your your 9-1-1. Right. Like, hey, um I have this death contract. Like, take us. What was that? And and what was the idea behind it?
Speaker: Well, basically, at the time i was in my third marriage and it it it failed that like it was over. we agreed on the divorce. I had a son from the second marriage living with me and he had two and a half years left of high school.
Speaker: And I walked outside and I'm like, what am I fighting for? You know, he's going to be in college. You know, ah I did my job. ah you know, I'm, you know, am I ever going to get married again? Probably. i said to myself, probably not. I don't want to live life, you know, the way it is. So I said, you know what, I'm going to give ah give a shot to fix all this. So I feel like I i was when I was in my twenties, why not do it? and And I have to be honest, it was a moment of relief because there was an end in sight because I just didn't want to
Speaker: keep getting worse because doctors, you know, they would tell you like, it's degenerative, it's only gonna get worse. And I was like, nah, that's not for me. And on top of it, my father has like some type of degenerative nerve disease.
Speaker: And I don't know if it's hereditary or not, but I was not gonna, I watched him lose function piece by piece. And I said, that's not the way I wanna go out. Yeah, okay. And so what was in this contract?
Speaker: Basically, I have to fix myself or I was just going to chain the kettlebell to my foot and walk into the pool. Okay. and And at that time when you did it, did you know how you were going to fix yourself or that was the kickoff of, hey, now i'm going to go figure out how do it?
Speaker: It was now I'm going to go figure out how I'm going to do it. Okay. And so in that process, it wasn't an overnight thing, right? Like you didn't wake up the next day like, okay, here's the exact daily protocol. Everything comes together. You're, you're adding these pieces on, like you said, you're like, Oh, Borax. Well, that's kind of helping the ozone. Okay. That's how the cold. Oh, now when I add the workout in, what was the journey? And maybe it's not over yet. Right. Like as a guinea pig,
Speaker: I'm always testing, like subtracting, adding new things in. What was the journey to get to where you woke up one day or you got through a week and you said, Oh wow. You know, this is fundamentally different than where I started when I signed this contract.
Speaker: Well, I would probably say like literally the next day I started researching and I was kind of already researching like beforehand because even physically, mentally, I was like, uh,
Speaker: like in such a horrible state too. So I was like actively investigating and like even prior to that, I was kind of exploring stuff and you know, the big trend, the big trendy thing back in the day was micro dosing.
Speaker: I tried the micro dosing, the. Psilocybin, LSD, like what were you? LSD. Okay. And I did it and like, it doesn't do anything. If anything, because I tracked it, is the days I would do it, because I did a lot of ah coding back then, is the amount of errors I made was drastically... Oh, interesting. Okay.
Speaker: Yeah. So, I mean, you think you have like these great creative insights, but then the next day i would look at the code and I would think like, what was I thinking? OK, so and it did it didn't really help. You you felt better.
Speaker: But I think, again, you're masking a problem. You're not really solving it. Well, I think maybe it depends what the problem is, right? Like it is a tool.
Speaker: And if your tool is PTSD or some kind of traumatic thing, that that is that is the problem you're working to solve. There may be a space for it.
Speaker: But if you're solving a different problem, you're using a hammer where you need a screwdriver, right? Like it's, these are all tools. They're not panaceas. And so you need to figure out what is the job I'm trying to do and what's the right tool for it. And so that's where it isn't just about adding things, right? Like you added, you tried it. You said, this isn't fixing whatever my thing is. Let me put that to the side. Let me go pick up another tool and see what this does.
Speaker: Basically, i was always, you know, probably since a little, i was always experimenting with lots of stuff. Like even in the early 2000s, was experimenting with the peptide.
Speaker: I don't even know if you call peptides back then. Um, but with all sorts of experimental stuff, you know, it's always been in kind of my nature to experiment. Um, and when this came about too, I did a lot of peptides.
Speaker: Most didn't do anything. Uh, I think there's a lot of peptides that are overhyped. Um, some work, I'm not going to say that some give terrible side effects.
Speaker: What, what would those be? You know, I don't remember the specific, and but I was injecting it right into my elbows.
Speaker: and And one of the side effects is it may be painful at the injection site. And let me tell I woke up in the middle of the night and it felt like, like such an extreme pain. It was the most painful injection site I've ever experienced in my life.
Speaker: And I was like, you know, I did the whole, the whole thing. i noticed that pain from it. Do you remember what the objective was? Was it like cartilax? You're trying to boost cartilage? What what was it you're trying to get?
Speaker: You know, I can't really um remember what what the what it was, but I know that when I do do peptides,
Speaker: or anything, I'm doing it. I'm not adding a ah bunch of them at once so I can see the results pretty fast. And I know everyone likes to, you know, everyone, yeah, they all of a sudden they have good dietary habits. They do this and then they take peptides say, this stuff's amazing.
Speaker: And I think one of the things that I always like to talk about ah that's really great and it's really important not mainstream is niacin.
Speaker: And I think niacin really helped the nerves, the the flushing one. And it's like, I think if you research it, it has a long history and it's cheap. You can buy it on Amazon.
Speaker: And it starts with, I think, for Bill Wilson, the the founder of AA, that he used niacin for his alcohol withdrawals.
Speaker: from there, it also helps people with schizophrenia, ah PTSD, and a bunch of other like psychological symptoms. And if you go even further is, I don't know if the stats are true, but L. Ron Hubbard had it where he would put drug addicts or, yeah. And I think that the Scientology has something called like Narcon or some some type of drug treatment program where their success rate is well above
Speaker: your traditional rehabs and they dose them with high amounts of niacin with sauna. And it has good effects. And and like besides that, it, it'll clear a cholesterol.
Speaker: It's really, you know, blood pressure. i mean, it's probably the only vitamin out there that acts as a vitamin and at times it can act as a drug and it costs nothing.
Speaker: And the only bad rap from it is that Big Pharma has a niacin for cholesterol, but it's a time release and it's hard on the liver. Okay. Well, the flushing, right? So I've definitely had people experience and like, oh, did not like that. And so they they fall off. Both my parents tried it Yeah.
Speaker: I think like what the flushing is, you just have to accept the flush and learn to enjoy it. I personally like the feeling. But it's a time at the same time, i've I've told some people about it and you know they called me up and they want to call the ambulance.
Speaker: you know so That intense, okay. Yeah, but it's worth a try and it's healthy. Okay. Well, okay. So speaking of which, right. So we're now more than 700 days past the end date for this contract. Right. And, and you're still going, what does your day look like? I'm sure there are things that get cycled, but between peptides. So we've heard about the the cold plunge. I just would love to hear, let's go through the schedule of the day, like from wake up or are you using an alarm? What time, like what that whole thing looks like.
Speaker: I don't use an alarm. Um, um And literally the first thing, as soon as I wake up, I yeah i drink 60, this is a 30 ounce bottle. I drink two of these before my feet hit the bed.
Speaker: And from there, i like I brush my teeth, shave. Then I come back and i start doing pushups and some other exercises. And then some like mobility stuff in front of a red light.
Speaker: So that takes roughly 30 minutes Then i come downstairs and I have another 30 ounce bottle of And from there, i wait I wait for my wife to wake up and we'll have coffee together.
Speaker: then I work and like midway through work, I'll do some wrist exercises. And from there, i just continue to work after that.
Speaker: And then I had to stretch, cold plunge, workout, eat dinner. Around what time is that cold plunge workout and then dinner?
Speaker: You know, I've changed it before. I used to do it in the morning, but now I do it roughly between like two and four, depending on how much work I have. Okay. And the whole thing takes maybe 38 minutes.
Speaker: Oh, wow. Okay. That is efficient. Okay. So, and I look at it too is, and you when you sell this type of system is it's at your house because you don't, I mean, kettlebell is pretty inexpensive equipment to have it's small.
Speaker: So it's not like you have to occupy a whole workout ah You know, for a cold plunge, you can buy one, of course. I just, you know, changed the deep freezer into a cold plunge, sealed it up, put ozone, you know, a temperature control filters.
Speaker: So, you know, it's probably you can do it for under twelve hundred dollars. OK. And there are attachments to add to a normal tub and stuff I've seen as well.
Speaker: Yeah. um Oh, we like the chiller. Yeah. Yeah, um but I want to get in something that is like big and it's just kind of relaxing to sit and just open it up. You don't have to worry about it. There's no cords and it's pretty relaxing. And I think the other thing with the cold plunge is it resets your nervous system.
Speaker: And like in the psychologically, it me i mean, the benefits, I don't think you can run the science on it because it's just, One of the things i write in the book, there's two rules, no panicking and no whining. And to train no that the no panicking is you really can't panic if you sit in a cold lunch.
Speaker: If you do, you're not going to stay in very long. So and I think that those are pretty key rules to like to really control your life.
Speaker: Because if you get into a panic cycle, it's all it's just basically game over. It's never going to make the situation better. Yeah, it was the the first time I got hit by a Portuguese man award, kind of ocean swimming.
Speaker: It's wrapped around my arm. i'm kind of flailing, trying to peel it off. And then it it hit me. was like, you know, my heart's racing. Well, people aren't drowning because this point. Like, it hurts like hell, but they drown because they freak out. So then i just, like, stopped and, like, slowly. I was like, man, this really hurt. And just, like, slowly peel it off. And then had to just, like, try to slow myself swimming back home to get. And the pain just...
Speaker: Really getting in you. But it was that realization. It's the panic is the danger, not what actually happened. It's the reaction to what happened. Yeah. So I think like the the cold plunge, it has so much to offer.
Speaker: um But I think, again, like three minutes, five minutes, and then you see people online, like, you know, they're doctors that research it. And they're like, you don't have to keep your hands in the water.
Speaker: You know, it's just like you could wear Neoprene socks. And it's just like, come on, you why not just wear a wetsuit? Yeah. Well, I mean, it's both sides too, right? If it, if it makes it more accessible, right? This is the same thing of people were knocking a friend of mine. She was doing a 17 minute workout. and Like, Oh no, we go to F45. You can't get a workout in 17 minutes. something and I'm like,
Speaker: One, that's BS, right? you don't You have no idea the intensity she's training here. And then 17 minutes is a billion times better than zero. So why would you try to take apart this person? So if if the person's not going to get in but for the boots, I'm not going to knock them. Like, great, wear your boots, do the thing if it's working for you. yeah they're They're always, you know increments of improvement, but...
Speaker: Again, that 80-20, if people are doing it, like find what works, that you'll do it consistently. that's the I used to push it in another way. But if it's you'll do one way and then you hate it so much that after a week or two, you stop because you really hate it so much versus another way makes it sustainable, you're going to be way better for life. Whatever works for you that you'll actually stick with.
Speaker: No, i'm I'm with you on that, but I think that with any type of workout anything you start, you should do it where you're nowhere near your failure and build from there where it like, there's no, if you jump into a cold plunge the first time and do 10 minutes, um, you want it and you could get really hurt.
Speaker: Um, But you'll never want to do it again. You know, if you have to do it again the next day, good luck. yeah And it's going to be really hard to ever do ah increase it.
Speaker: And the same thing, i just believe like like doing anything close to failure, you're really setting yourself up for failure. You know, because it it won't be consistent because it's why it's just too hard on your nervous system because you'll be thinking about it instead of I'm going to just do a minute, two minutes, you know, like the gradual improvement.
Speaker: versus you know going all out and eventually you're gonna be so stressed about it, you're gonna be thinking about it all day long. I'm sure you remember the days when you're competitive, you'd be you'd be thinking about that workout like and like, I don't wanna do it. And then you're like, oh no, it's two hours away.
Speaker: you know but like that is not sustainable long term. Yeah, you can't white knuckle through life. yeah yeah Yeah, I mean, so you really have to do it like with, with like you you like it And then slowly build from there.
Speaker: And, you know, um you can do a pretty extreme workout 17 minutes. I will say that. I mean, 100%. yeah yeah And I think the the research is out there that anything over 45 is detrimental for hormonal.
Speaker: Especially with weights. Yeah. Well, in focus, right? That's where you can start getting, because you need, if you're lifting heavy, you need to be locked in, right? that You have to be really locked in. And as you get fatigued, as it goes longer, it's just harder to do.
Speaker: And so the the risk and the danger of doing something wrong and getting hurt goes up a lot. Yeah, but I think, again, the the training to failure, I know it's it's popular.
Speaker: But if you really look back at like back in the day when the Soviets were around, their weightlifters never missed reps. Everything was pre-planned and they didn't overtax their system.
Speaker: I mean, obviously, if they're max max, you know, if they're looking for a max, different story. But like a regular training session, you just can't do it all the time. You can't do that every day. Yeah, for sure.
Speaker: Cam, yeah, this is this has been great. i am sorry you had to go through that journey, especially for seven years as you're degrading. But the benefit of what you've been able to find on the other side and and now share with others, I think a lot of lives are and have been improved by it.
Speaker: For people today who want to follow you, learn more, where's the best place for them to do so? My website, savagejillstyle.com. And the book, I have it right here. it's You can get it on Amazon.
Speaker: It's an easy read. Everyone likes the book. And i talk about the whole system. It's like I talk about what my system in the book, but I really i have a background system dynamics.
Speaker: is that for a system to work, one, you have to be compatible with it and you really have to map out all the contingencies. And before any of that can happen, I recommend people eliminate clutter because clutter is the is the silent killer.
Speaker: And I think one of the quotes in my book is, you can't live like a savage if your if your room looks like it belongs to a hostage. And clutter can really make you feel like a hostage.
Speaker: You really should strive for like you walk into your your home, your work, wherever. should be like a sanctuary, stress-free, no decisions based on clutter.
Speaker: So I think that's really important if you have like a clean slate to start rebuilding. You can really design your system so it sticks. And I really talk about system development and like building a system you are compatible with.
Speaker: You can't buy someone else's workout routine. It's designed for them. And they had great results and think you'll get the same. Everyone's different. Like if you told me I had to run, that would not work for me.
Speaker: um Like it works for me because I enjoy each aspect of it. So it's going to be great. And I also say yeah the book, you know, I go through my personal story a lot, but if anyone is struggling, buy the book. And if you can't afford the book, email me, I'll send you a book. If you have questions about the book, I will respond.
Speaker: But if a system is a way to always make, and ah it will definitely be going off emotions, for sure. Well, thank you so much, Cam. Thank you.
Speaker: I really appreciate Andrew. Thank you for joining us on today's episode of the Home of Healthspan podcast. And remember, you can always find the products, practices, and routines mentioned by today's guests, as well as many other healthspan role models on Alively.com.
Speaker: Enjoy a lively day.
