Transcript
Speaker: Every day, we're helping somebody get started. Every week, there's a cohort of people who go, i can really do this. And it was not inconvenient. I don't feel like a failure. I'm actually feeling pretty good about myself. And that's very gratifying as a person in business and the CEO to be able to talk to people who have that experience with our product.
Speaker: This is the Home of Healthspan podcast, where we profile health and wellness role models, sharing their stories and the tools, practices, and routines they use to live a lively life.
Speaker: Carl, welcome to the Home of Healthspan podcast. Thanks so much. Really glad to be here, Andrew. I am very much looking forward to this conversation. You are certainly an icon in this space. But before I get into that, how would you describe yourself?
Speaker: I describe myself honestly as a lively problem solver. I don't consider myself a great businessman per se, but what I've done for the last 30, 35 years or so is be able to identify problems, common problems that I have and a so a solution that scales.
Speaker: um pretty significantly. And ah that's how my mind works. And I can't turn it off. So I guess that's that's how I describe myself. Well, I think for millions of people that has worked to their benefit, for those watching this video, maybe in the background, you can see the P90X box behind Carl. But I mean, you're you're behind some of the most well-recognized home fitness companies and brands and programs out there. P90X, Insanity, Beachbody, now Body.
Speaker: What got you into this? You said 35 years of doing this. What was it that that drew you in? I think it's the problem. um I have never considered myself a fitness fanatic, and I don't like to eat vegetables. So I'm constantly trying to figure out my own solution. So the the first thing that um I worked on over 35 years ago was a set of resistance bands and ah called Lifeline at the time. and And we packaged them with content so that you would know what to do. And you just, you didn't need all these dumbbells and everything. So today we still sell these resistance bands on the body site. And then, you know, creating short workouts that would, for a guy who was doing nothing,
Speaker: but does want to feel good in his own body, ah even 10 minutes was better than doing nothing. And so that started with a program that I created called Eight Minute Abs, which, you know, was a whirlwind of a success at the time. And then even now with body, we've got over 400 workouts called 10 minute body that help people where they might be runners, they don't like to do resistance training, they might just be too busy, but they're taking a GLP one and they know they need to preserve their muscle mass so that 10 minutes a day of a different body part is going to help them. Finally, like i just literally all my life I've had a
Speaker: fight with vegetables and creating this little shake that, has done unbelievable things to my health and well-being. You know, eating healthy can be complex. It can take a lot of time. And I just wanted something like I i even said to the team when we were creating it, hey, if I can do a shot of tequila, I can do a shot of the worst, most disgusting thing that you might even come up with. So they said, we can make it taste good.
Speaker: And so... I've been drinking this now for over 15 years every single morning. and And it solves that problem for me of getting enough fruits and vegetables and many of these things that I would never get into my diet, superfoods and so on. So that's how I you know identify a problem very early. but What can I do? How can i help myself get in shape? Let me make it convenient. Let me make it short.
Speaker: And that turns into a product that we found that we had a particular strong skill set in. articulating to people, hey, you've got this problem too. Here's a solution that's highly efficient. And that's really my role in the marketplace.
Speaker: And for those that are maybe listening, not watching, what is the shake? You held up a shake. Oh, this is called Shakeology. Okay. It's protein, superfoods, greens blends, fruits blends. It's probably...
Speaker: um Now, this is chocolate. We got a bunch of flavors, strawberry, um vanilla, obviously, cookies and creamy. um What is so special about this is the effort that we put into sourcing. So, for instance, let's say there's a adaptogen herb in there or a mushroom. So, the mushroom, anybody could say this this mushroom is ah particularly potent and effective at helping your energy, for instance. But you can, so that's that's what it's known for.
Speaker: But in the process, the whole the mushroom is the head of the mushroom and the stalk, right? So you can take the head of the mushroom, which is the good stuff, but fill most of the shake with the stalk.
Speaker: my team test the My team tests the ah efficacy and potency of the powder that we get to make sure it's the good stuff, not just the stalk and the, you know, so that we can check the box that it's in there. And the the team that formulated this actually That is part of the contract that we can't, our finance people can't dictate the potency of the shake to get better profit margin.
Speaker: It has to live up to, and then it's a little bit more expensive than any other shake that you'd find. But I drink it every day and the formulators drink it every day because we know what testing goes into this throughout the process so that Whatever you can do, as long as it's safe, we try to keep it alive, you know, and it's and it's as as close as you get to sort of pulling. If you can pull a milkshake out of the ground or pick it from a tree, that's what Shakeology is. And I replaced my breakfast.
Speaker: with Shakeology about four years ago. like I used to try to fit it in as a snack. And then instead, I changed it to breakfast and I'll put some spinach in there. I'll put a banana in there. And I even put a raw egg in for some extra protein. And that is good for me. like i won't have to I won't even think about lunch till one o'clock.
Speaker: And I'm like, God, I really should eat. but then But I'm not starving because it's got protein, fiber. you know it's It's got all this stuff that satisfies the body. So...
Speaker: So again, ah problem solved for me. I'm a, I'm the, I'm the kid that when I was seven years old, used to find a way to hide my broccoli in my glass of milk.
Speaker: And then I always look, I was like the star pupil at at dinner, the favorite kid, because I would clear the table. I was just clearing the table so that I could pour my milk out first because it had all my broccoli in it. So now I don't have to, I drink a chocolate shake and I get my vegetables.
Speaker: That's very cool. you You mentioned where you started off with all these 10-minute workouts. And you know I think a lot of people don't realize 10 minutes a day of vigorous activity lowers all-cause mortality by nearly 25%, right? Just that amount. And so the improvement of going from zero to 10 is actually bigger than going from 10 to 60.
Speaker: Right. Like it's the zero to something that is the the bigger deal. And then making that accessible because people say, I don't have time to like get in my car, drive to the gym, do all this, or even at home, I don't have all the equipment.
Speaker: And your whole approach is that you don't need all the equipment, right? Like we have these steps. Right. through here's if you only have 10 minutes, here's what you do. And you can feel good about the day you got something in or you have longer term programs, like a P90X.
Speaker: What have you found? Because a lot of people, they have the aspiration, right? Like you have the front end, Huberman, Atiyah, we're going to do everything. They're 80% of people, they care about their health, they they want to prioritize it.
Speaker: But it's hard to fit it into the rest of their life. And so they fall off. They may try something and maybe too much may not be the right thing. How have you found, because like clearly you've done it over time, what works for adherence? What works for people to say, okay, I can see this through. This isn't three days and I fall off. Like I'm getting through the end of the 90 days. I'm seeing these long-term results.
Speaker: Well, boy, that was, you just laid out a lot there. First off, I really appreciate that you recognize the science that says even 10 minutes a day, what they call microdose fitness can reduce certainly preventable death and i'll call all cause mortality and reduce the likelihood of type two diabetes, certain cancers, um heart disease.
Speaker: Like people,
Speaker: People have a all or nothing binary approach to fitness that is If I'm not one of these gym rats, if I'm not one of these people and measuring all my steps and putting in a vigorous 45 minutes to an hour at the gym, I'm not really doing it. When ultimately, that little bit of discomfort, even 10 minutes a day, signals to the body that it needs to remain strong. There is resistance out there in the exterior that I need to...
Speaker: continue to have strength and vitality in order to fight those outside forces. So that's what we're signaling by even 10 minutes a day.
Speaker: But to your, the second part of your question and comment is, This is the sweet spot of, again, how I solved my problem. And it started with just realizing that I wanted to have a body where I didn't feel like I had to squeeze into my jeans and I didn't want to get winded going up the stairs. And, you know, as I've aged,
Speaker: I'm 62 years old now. and And my parents are in assisted living facilities. And I go to these places and I watch people struggle with just getting around. Like they're afraid to they're afraid to walk and talk at the same time because if they trip,
Speaker: they, everything falls apart, right? So even if they're in their 80s, and they're they they're lucky enough to walk with a cane or a walker, like they are so hyper focused.
Speaker: And I'm like, oh my God, what do I have to do to avoid that and to avoid that is consistency, and perhaps longer bouts of exercise,
Speaker: And that's why our model is so effective for me and I think our customers. And that is because it's laid out day by day in a way that you don't have to ask any questions. You don't have to figure anything out. You just go, hey, for 21 days, I'm going to follow this program, 21 Day Fix, for instance, or we got a program, Muscle Burns Fat. If you want to...
Speaker: commit and go longer, having that objective, like a program that we have called Morning Meltdown 100, which the goal is just to get to 100 workouts. You can do two a day, you do three a day, they're a little bit shorter, but you might just do one a day. And if you go 100 days, people are blown away, first off, by how they feel in their first week, both the pride that they stayed with it, but but truly how their clothes start to feel different and just how vital vital they feel in their body.
Speaker: You take that out a month and everything changes. And the difference between that and let's say searching for YouTube workouts for free or following an influencer and relying on yourself to have the discipline to know what you need to do which day, it's just a mentality that never works for me. I would have no problem never exercising again.
Speaker: So, so because I know that about myself, because I will easily stop working out and avoid that discomfort, having a program where it's my goal to finish all 90 days or 100 workouts or 21 days. And then by the way, I work my way through the catalog. We 225 programs on the body app.
Speaker: but spelled B-O-D-I for anybody who's wondering how to find it. But we got these 225 step-by-step programs. And in fact, I talked to a guy, he's ah he's in the Air Force.
Speaker: um And he i said he's been so consistent with his programming and it help and the content helped him finally pass the PT test so we he had upranked in the Air Force. And I said, why did this work for you, Jacob? And he said,
Speaker: Well, first off, I'm military, so I like to follow orders. So I don't want have to go up. I'm not good at making things up. You guys at Body tell me what to do day by day.
Speaker: And by stringing, but by knowing that He works best under these conditions. He's literally planned his whole calendar around what program he's going to do in any given month, any given quarter. So that's the model that works for us. Some people, they can go to other apps. They can go to other programs and just be like, hey, today I'm going to do cardio. going to HIIT workout. I'm going to do upper body. i'm going to do leg day.
Speaker: man, that's just not for me. If it's not laid out, and if there's not a goal at the end that ah that I achieve something and I got a badge for it, it's just too easy for me to fall off. And and that's the customer that we attract.
Speaker: Yeah. I mean, I think that's a really good point on it's not a one size fits all. There are certainly people... A lot of times they former athletes, former dancers compete in certain ways. They say, hey, look, I listen to my body. I get to the gym and decide, what do I need that day listening to my body?
Speaker: That is not the majority of people. right In the offloading, the cognitive load, you think about Steve Jobs with his, I wear black turtlenecks and jeans. right like i I don't want to have to think about, I want to save my energy and my decisions for things that are important.
Speaker: And if you are not a professional athlete, if this is not what you do for a living, you're saying, hey, i need to move my body for life, but I need to be fully mentally present at work for my family whatever. And I can offload this to someone who does this for a living, who's a professional, and it's a program that has worked for thousands of millions of people. That's great. Like I can just plug and play and I just execute. And it's one thing I don't have to think about.
Speaker: And so that seems to really have a lot of appeal. It certainly has. I mean, we've made the transition from... VHS tapes to DVDs and now digital, obviously.
Speaker: And it's been it's been a wild ride. We're over 28 years in the business. And i think the reason that even though it's ah any business that lasts that long is going to be a bit of a roller coaster navigating change, ah the one constant is there's a a large group of people who are the forgotten ones. And the the the rest of the health and fitness industry in general expects people to just prioritize this without um struggle because obviously your health is everything. If health is your problem,
Speaker: ah no other problem or no other aspect of life is as full. Once you have your health, then life opens up to you. But for so many of us,
Speaker: the motivation to delay gratification or to deal with discomfort every day is is a hard thing And and we understand that because we're not...
Speaker: my company is not filled with people who absolutely love fitness. We're just trying to solve it for the, for ourselves because just don't love it. And so we got to find a way that's interesting. That's a, that, that can be challenging and motivating and, and take into account our emotional situation, like all these things that we try to adapt to,
Speaker: The people who aren't naturally inclined to jump on a treadmill and go at it for 45 minutes. Most corporate wellness programs overwhelm employees with too much, or they offer too little to be useful.
Speaker: Alively gets it right. We start with each employee's data and goals, then serve one clear, personalized action at a time. No noise, just real behavioral change.
Speaker: The natural point an interesting one because... and measurable impact for your business visit a livevely dot com does he personalize wellness in action the natural point is an interesting one because evolutionarily, our bodies are made to conserve energy.
Speaker: Our brains are made to conserve energy. So the natural default is, let me do as little as possible. Because in 299,000 years of human history, we had to go out and hunting. like You needed all your energy for survival.
Speaker: And so the natural thing is consume as many calories as it possibly can and keep my body as... reserved and preserved as possible and and not moving around. And so we're having to override a bunch of nature because we've created this artificial environment.
Speaker: And so there's some people, I guess, that have triggered those stories. Like, hey, look, I love marathons. I love this, right? Like they've gotten to that world. But for most people, it is still that uphill battle to override those natural instincts.
Speaker: Yeah. and And, you know, on top of that, so you got the natural instincts and... ah you got this this little flat screen pocket TV that has everything on it, all the information, all the instant gratification, all the dopamine hits that you could possibly want. And and the the entire history of what
Speaker: television and movies have produced available to you in a couple clicks of the button. And that is a difficult thing to overcome. Plus, then you've got food engineering, which is, you know, they're just trying to make a business. So they want to make it as ah as gratifying as possible. So your taste buds are moving again because of your natural resources.
Speaker: responses to certain flavors, like certain things taste like they're going to be more dense in good stuff for you. And and and it's a head fake, what they call flow agents to make your tongue respond and react to something in a candy bar or a bag of chips or something that just, you know, that's why you can't just eat just one, like they are engineered for that. So it's, you know, and that's what,
Speaker: I think people feel so judged for exactly what you said, their very nature, that that the fact that it's just not natural for me to wake up at 5 a.m., lace up and get right into a workout that's very uncomfortable, where i the whole point of it is to create discomfort and resistance and failure so that my body will respond.
Speaker: So like everybody's getting judged that they're not that that are not waking up at 5 a.m. or they're not finding that 45 minutes. And my company tries to take the judgment out of it, have some compassion for the challenge,
Speaker: And help see people through a process that gets them to what we say in our mission statement, help people achieve their goals to lead a healthy, fulfilling life. It doesn't mean they have to have a six pack. It doesn't mean they have to have a firm lifted booty and long lean legs, whatever.
Speaker: But if you can, in your 60s and seventy s still play with your kids and hopefully your grandkids, you've achieved something that most people are lacking in their lives because they haven't been proactive. We call it proactive wellness for a reason because it takes being proactive about it because it's not just gonna be foist upon you.
Speaker: You have to go find it. But the good news is it's packaged in a way that it literally can be on your phone, your connected device on your TV. And ah end in 10 minutes, 20 minutes, 30 minutes,
Speaker: You're going to achieve things that the the majority of the population is still struggling to achieve. So that's that's where we try to operate in the space. And by the way, that also means that there's some things that we don't do, meaning I'm really not going to get you to, ah yeah if you're a performance athlete,
Speaker: you know We're not going to have the sophistication through a streaming service to make you a performance athlete or to rehab an injury. like You're still going to need external forces if there's directions that you want to go. But in this mass market, which is just a giant addressable market of people who are yearning to feel better, that's what we focus on day by day.
Speaker: And on that, you know, you use the word wellness. And then we talked a lot about movement, right? The eight-minute abs, the 10-minute workouts, all these other pieces. But a friend of mine and who years ago had done the the p ninety x he talked about this difference between functionality and maybe aesthetics.
Speaker: And he was saying, you know, I tried P90X and I tried it without doing the nutrition plan. And I tried it with only doing the nutrition plan. And when it came to my weight management,
Speaker: the nutrition plans would actually made the difference. Like there's a separate on maybe body composition or how you feel with the movement, but the the old adage, you lose ounces in the gym, pounds in the kitchen. How does that play in to what you do as a business and and for your clients?
Speaker: Yeah. Well, uh, we have always integrated, ah nutrition into the fitness plans for that very reason. Um, um, But again, it it really depends on what a person is trying to achieve. That's honestly why this shake is so powerful for me, um because I refuse to stop eating pizza. I refuse to stop having a ah burger. But what I learned, just as being CEO of this place and wanting to get people results, that if I portion with discipline,
Speaker: So like instead of having a pizza in front of me and I'm going to stop eating this delicious thing when I feel full with my fingers crossed and instead slide two slices off onto the plate and put the rest of it aside so that so that I've really got to feel like I need another slice.
Speaker: after those two, and usually I don't. And so I can have pizza. I know that I checked my nutrition boxes in the morning with this shake. And, you know, for lunch, I'll try to to do a salad or something. So I've managed to keep it within reason without having to become, you know, sort of a health and wellness Nazi about it. Like I don't i don't have to overdo it. And um now I'm not a big sweets person. I think you know, this, a chocolate shake in the morning satisfies my cravings. And then when I, so so when I layer consistent fitness on top of that, my metabolism kicks in, like everything works better. So the only thing that I would disagree with the sort of binary statement of um ounces are lost in the gym and pounds lost in the kitchen
Speaker: to To some degree, i want to gain ounces in the gym. I want to gain ounces of muscle. And i want to eat in a way that will support gaining ounces of muscle, but that will also support the metabolism of stored fat and the reduction of sugar and processed foods. So that's that's it's that's the delicate balance. It's not quite so binary as just trying to shrink because
Speaker: You know, that's the problem GLP ones, right? People, they they take this miracle drug and it's going after muscle just as much as it's going after fat. And that has a spiral because your metabolism crashes.
Speaker: So you've got to keep, you've got to maintain those ounces while you're losing the pounds. I did want to go there next, right? We've lived in a society and and I think still do, though hopefully it's changing a bit, where it was more about weight management than body composition.
Speaker: And we've seen GLP-1s and something like 40% of the weight lost is lean mass, right? It's bone density. It is muscle. Right. And we get a lighter population, but a more frail population. I've had stories of friends whose spouses have died, right? Like in a skiing accident, because they lost so much weight, they were just frail. And when they got in accident, it broke their back and killed them.
Speaker: And there are risks. So we hear all these stories, hey, these people, they reversed their type 2 diabetes, or they did this, and the other. And it's amazing. And we need to think about that muscle preservation or muscle building.
Speaker: And so as you are managing a business in this space where for 25 of the 28 years, people may have been originally coming for weight loss goals.
Speaker: And now there's a shot that does it. How are you thinking about repositioning what you're offering, what you can bring to them and say, Hey, look, maybe you have the easy, easy weight loss, but you need to be thinking about body composition. how How are you doing that education or communication? Well, that's one of the reasons we changed the name from beach body, which is very aesthetic to body um B O D so that people were not just, um,
Speaker: coming to our ecosystem for the aesthetic outcome. I mean, imagine, like, I can't even believe what you just said, that that there is a drug out there that doctors prescribe that can actually undermine my skeletal strength so that skiing, walking, falling, jogging could actually threaten my life. like like
Speaker: It blows my mind that the medical community is not farm does does not require far more information and compliance with lifestyle change along with that drug.
Speaker: Because I can't think of a worse existence than just being an old guy that's skinny. Like, what? if if i can't If I can't move around and do things, what is this life about? i don't want to be a brain on a stick.
Speaker: Yeah. I mean, it's where you started this, right? The the older frail of, hey I can't talk and walk at the same time because I'm so afraid. Because we know... Health decline, movement decline, mobility decline does not happen in a slow stove slope.
Speaker: It's step changes. It's I fall, I break a knee, I break a hip, and it I never get back to where I was. And so I took this huge... step down, and then now I can't get back. And then I get another one because I get more frail with each step. And if before they even had that injury, we're making them frailer on the front end.
Speaker: What we don't know, like we do know, yes, people can lose this weight. And we know this percent that goes to lean mass. But what we don't know is what do 40 years on this look like?
Speaker: what What does an older, frailer, thinner population look like as a society and cost us as a society? That's what's scary to me about many of these things. You've got synthetic peptides, which people are taking these injections direct into their bloodstream without really knowing the source, where they come from, how the body reacts to so much of a synthetic hormone or or peptide that is, um what are the consequences? And we are so fast,
Speaker: to adopt these breakthroughs without understanding their consequences that um it can really do damage. um I am a fast adopter of lifestyle change, a slow adopter of medical or biohacking solutions. um I know that 99% of the health issues that people face could be first addressed with nutrition and activity and rest, okay?
Speaker: You check those three boxes, nutrition, choices, activity, and rest. And within rest, you could probably wrap stress reduction.
Speaker: And ah everything else is gonna be a refining compliment to those three pillars. And I think we get sort of wrapped up in a magic pill mentality, and and I've just never seen it pay off. It's always been a thing that that's the stuff that ends up either fading away um or getting regulated out of existence, or um we move on to the next shiny object. And, you know, again, that's at at Body, what we just try to do. We try to keep it simple.
Speaker: I get offers all the time in terms of getting into the peptide business, getting into... these new, yeah ah you know, and and look, I'm not against wearables. I think wearables can be very helpful for people ah to understand where they're at, unless it's creating so much anxiety.
Speaker: Like people have anxiety over their sleep when they see that their aura ring tells them they didn't get a good night's sleep and they thought they got a good night's sleep. And now they've got anxiety about it, or I didn't get all my steps in. I better, I got to get more, you know, it's just,
Speaker: I don't know. There's, there's, i just, I prefer simplicity and that's what I try to discipline body to be for people. A simple shake you drink every day and it's going to like nutrition insurance to make sure that you're getting what you need nutritionally and an approach to activity that creates enough discomfort every day to keep your body healthy, alive, agile, and mobile.
Speaker: without occupying your day. I don't have time for the half hour drive to the gym, the hour of figuring out what I'm going to do in the half and the half hour back in that two hours.
Speaker: I could have done 30 minute workout and had an extra hour and a half to get on with my day. So um that's who I choose to serve, you know. Yeah, Carl, so I mean, you've seen over three decades, right? Like you said, you started with VHS through DVD to streaming, now to mobile, and have evolved the business to adapt to society and the individual at each stage.
Speaker: As we're now entering a new age of AI, of GLP-1s and peptides, What is this next phase look like? How are you best going to support the those people that are kind of the forgotten? They're not the fringe biohackers or people that need to live day to day, but also want to live healthier.
Speaker: Things are moving so fast. That that's that's a question that that you could ask me that tomorrow and I could have a different answer. Ultimately, it it just comes back to the mission and ah help people achieve their goals so their goals may change with trends and so on. So we adapt to that. We came out with a program this month called 30 Day Booty Boost.
Speaker: um We were getting a lot of requests. Women wanted to build the most powerful muscle in their body and lift their butt and and we sit all day long. So that was a a thing that people wanted a solution for in a measurable period of time. So we created that. But we've also got stuff coming in 2027, which is like nothing else that we have created and is toward tilted toward where we're seeing people go and that is that fitness is also an experience, that they want to have an experience when they do it, not just get an outcome.
Speaker: So the the experience of the workout on the screen needs to be gratifying and ah somehow support oh your overall emotional well-being at the same time that it's supporting your physical well-being. So these are the kind of things. We just adapt to that. So I don't know where...
Speaker: I try to go, you know, as they say, skate to where the puck is going, but it changes with all of these breakthroughs. What I do know is fundamentally, there's a lot more people doing nothing than the people doing something. And we want to remain ah open to and appealing to helping the people doing nothing to get started. And by the way, those people could be in their 20s, 30s, but they all they might be in their 60s and 70s, which is why we created a program for active aging so that
Speaker: Anybody can come into the ecosystem and they're going to find a solution that's going to be easy to get started and they'm going give them the gratification of results in the first week or so and then demonstrable benefits in a month.
Speaker: Yeah, that's amazing. I mean, over again, the past 30, 35 years, I don't think there's been anyone more effective at activating that group more consistently in more different ways than what you've done over the course of your career. So I really appreciate you coming here today and and sharing the story and what's going on now and and some highlights of what's coming in the future.
Speaker: Yeah, well, it's, it's, it's a riddle. Like that's when I, when we started the company, we actually didn't know what direction was going to go. We were a marketing company. We just had a knack for solving this problem of ours. And, I really appreciate what you've said. The company, like I said, has been a, a true roller coaster because it things have changed so much and then COVID disrupted things so much. But, um,
Speaker: Ultimately, I know we're every day we're helping somebody get started. And every week there's a cohort of people who go, i can really do this. And it was not inconvenient.
Speaker: I don't feel like a failure. And I'm actually feeling pretty good about myself. And that's very gratifying as a person in business and the CEO to to be able to talk to people who have that experience with our product. And it's it's as simple as pushing play on a on an app and drinking a chocolate shake.
Speaker: Well, that's amazing. I really do appreciate your work and and all the time today. Thanks, Carl. Thank you, Andrew. That was fun. Thank you for joining us on today's episode of the Home of Healthspan podcast.
Speaker: And remember, you can always find the products, practices, and routines mentioned by today's guests, as well as many other Healthspan role models on Alively.com. Enjoy a lively day.
