Transcript
Speaker: That's why we want to share our experience because and we don't want people to test things that go into the wrong direction. Because investing in your health is an investment. But if I invest in the wrong stock, I might go broke. I'm still alive. If I'm in the wrong treatment, things can go really south and things can stop.
Speaker: This is the Home of Healthspan podcast, where we profile health and wellness role models, sharing their stories and the tools, practices and routines they use to live a lively life.
Speaker: Andreas and Ramona, welcome to the Home Healthspan podcast. Thanks, Andrew. Thanks for having us. I'm really looking forward to the conversation today. i think you have a unique insight and journey to that insight that will really resonate with a lot of our listeners.
Speaker: But before we get into that, how would you describe yourselves? Yeah, I'm a lively. um I describe myself as someone who's curious about people.
Speaker: Probably also someone who over time became less interested in what actually makes a a life feel good and sustainable in the long run. And outside of work, we're mostly just parents driving the kids around and trying to keep life reasonably balanced.
Speaker: Yeah, right. And I would describe myself as lively um observational. I try to look under the surface. And what drives me is trying to figure out why some things work for some people, but they don't work for other other people.
Speaker: So that's, yeah, what drives me. Other than that, um it's, yeah, again, it's family, dog, kids, sport, and the normal crazy life around that. I know that shuttling around of children can take over a lot of the scheduling.
Speaker: ah I want to talk about this idea of over-optimization. it's I ah did a TED Talk in Bermuda where I had pulled some data from the Global Wellness Report where it's each year people felt like they were doing more and more and more, and they were feeling more and more burned out and when it came to health. Like, what am I doing for my health? Well, I'm doing more this year than last year, and I'm doing more this year than the year before.
Speaker: And if you looked at the data, people weren't getting healthier. They were doing more, but it wasn't moving the things that we actually cared about. And the two of you with VMedCell, you run and have one of the the preeminent longevity centers in the world that you've kind of built and doing. And We're in that world for a long time, right? Like providing more, doing more, the people coming to you are looking for the creme de la creme, like the next level.
Speaker: Well, let's just start there. And then we'll get into the unlongevity and what you saw over time in doing that. But what brought you into this space in the first place?
Speaker: Yeah, so um in the we were really curious about um the health and and how you can make sure that you live a better life. So that was the the previous part, you know, it's um taking good care of yourself. And then also we saw, um especially we were also really internationally oriented. So we saw different people from different parts of the world have a different way of how they are going about their health. You can kind of say you have um on the one side the Western way, the Eastern way, but then also the traditional way and then the more conservative way. And for us, it was always quite interesting that also some areas, they were just focused in this one area where you could kind of say it's like basically like a silo. Whereas for us, it was always interesting to to say that maybe it's necessary to bring the best parts of each world together and that with that, we can even improve
Speaker: even more or we can even become a lot healthier. That was the origin how we started. Yeah, absolutely. i may It was the same. First of all, of course, it was also self-interest in in the whole field and the whole field of what's now called longevity, how to live better. And and then, yeah, we we looked around and then we tapped into the field and it was a kind of learning by doing in a way.
Speaker: And in in in doing that, so when you're building it, what does that look like? What were the treatments or the offerings? So someone's coming to you that cares about longevity.
Speaker: What are you looking at for them? Is it certain blood work, certain tests, functional tests? And then what are you offering to them on the back end? Right. So I think what's really important for us is um we never really have a standardized way of looking at the person. So first of all, it's um what they tell us, what their interest is. But then also because the the um people that come to us, they have been in the health health area quite a long time already. So have they have basically a long journey or they have been there for quite some time already.
Speaker: we first have to understand where do they currently stand. um That means they have some of them have really like big books of already diagnostics being done, lab values um um or or also treatments they have done. Others, they come a little bit slimmer. We really have to see where are they currently standing and then what do they say is their problem? Because a lot of times also in the medical field, you see that they make a lot. ah Often they look at What is its current lab values looking like, but not really talking to the person? What is he or she actually reporting or saying or feeling even?
Speaker: What's a lived experience, not just the data? Exactly. So that's the first step where we really say, okay, where is this person currently standing? What have they done already? What has worked? What hasn't worked? What are their current most...
Speaker: most biggest priorities. And by that, we then say, OK, for you, yes, we think from the treatment options, the solutions that we have, that we are able to improve something um or maybe move towards the target that you have. Sometimes it's possible to go really far, sometimes not. There were quite conservative, you have to say, um because of people travel long ways and then we just want to keep expectations or manage expectations, as you would say in the US.
Speaker: Once we are sure that we can at least improve and and make it a significant improvement for them, we just tell them, OK, we think we can do X, Y and Z. Or for others that don't understand what they have, we can be quite deep in the diagnostics to to find out for them what their actual problem is.
Speaker: So that is basically how they they come to us, um what they provide to us. And then when they come for treatment, then we do really like personalized treatment. That brings up two questions for me, I guess. the so the typical person coming to you, is it someone that has this, you like you said, they're pretty far along in the journey. They have something that's an issue and they've tried a bunch of different avenues and can't identify it or resolve it or whatever it is. or is it people...
Speaker: and maybe it's both, that they're healthy and they're just looking to optimize more and more and more. Do you get both of those? Is it more one or the other? Yeah, and we we get both. um And and yeah the other main reason is ah we normally we purely work based on recommendations. So and um when people come to us, let's say, because they just want to optimize in a way um and then they see what we can do and the way we work, we often get them recommended within the family or with friends. And then it can be that, um yeah, guests come and
Speaker: They have an issue and and the root cause hasn't been identified so far. And therefore, the treatments um haven't worked out the way they're supposed to work.
Speaker: And then we have the other cases they come for, um well, as you considered it, like the preventative reasons, you know, they just want to make sure that they can sustain longer, um especially when you reach a certain age point. That's when you start looking a little bit more into your health. And they just want to make sure that what they have created in their life, that they can also enjoy it longer or also with the family or for their kids or, you know, with family and friends.
Speaker: And understanding it is entirely personalized to your objectives, where you are in your journey, et cetera. What is the typical, what is the menu of different options there? I mean, is it under certain buckets? Like what are the things that you say treatment plans can kind of, you receive this or you do this or you consume this? Like what what does that look like?
Speaker: Right. So um here, first of all, when we have done the the diagnostics, um we look at different areas. um So it always depends what is the first important area that the person has to look into. A lot of times it can be from a biological perspective, so so the body perspective. But then sometimes we also have those where you see If we would now um do a huge treatment, um they they may not be stable enough to do this. So then maybe we have to to pick them up emotionally. Or also we look into the um what is also their environmental toxic load, for example. um A lot of times um from a lab voice, everything looks good, but they feel really exhausted. and We also include the environmental side. How does that look? We also look at the energetic um perspective. So we have...
Speaker: various areas that we look at and then we have to decide what is the first area we have to look in to kind of take away a little bit of the um of the blockade um that then we can go one level deeper right yeah and and i think we always work in the kind of team with team i mean um it's the guest and us um so um it's not that we just say hey you should do this this this and this it's all it's it's a a lot of conversation before we start. I mean, as Ramona mentioned in the beginning, first we we manage expectations. We get all the reports, we go through it with the medical teams. um We see see in which direction this could go. Then we say, OK, what we could do and
Speaker: Then when the guests come, it it already starts when we welcome them. So we already are collecting salt to say the first data points because we we go out, we welcome them when they come with the chauffeur. We want to see how do they get out of the car. um So we are in a historical building. How are they getting up the stairs? So um in which mood are they before they even sit down and before we start the conversation. And this we all can do because our setup is always a kind of one-to-one.
Speaker: So once the guest is with us, it's with family or with friends, um but there's never someone else. This is the level of detail. We are we're then building up um but the treatments and see in which direction this could or should go.
Speaker: Always in a deep conversation with the guest itself. Also looking at family history, um what has happened? Did there any events happen when XYZ started um to appear? Yeah, just like Andreas was saying. Because what what we've seen over all the years in the two decades, we really first, the the guests, they need to open up. We need to get their trust. And the more trust they have in us and in the treatments, what we've seen, the better it works in the end.
Speaker: So and and that's why, because you're going to maybe have the same case, um maybe same treatment and the outcome is totally different. And on those treatments, I guess I'm just trying to get a better sense. Is it physical therapy? Is it nutritional coaching? Is it hormone replacement therapy and peptides and stem cells? Like what is the universe of different treatments that you're servicing to your clients?
Speaker: It can be well from from a a to set whatever we need. It can be that we also just first need to own on traumatized. So totally different than maybe because when we see all the diagnostics, everything works OK. Maybe um we need to go in a totally different direction. Or maybe we have the cases people taking lots of of supplements. um but all their values are way off that we need to get them first on a baseline again and see um what do they really need and and how much do they need, what type of the supplement, um yeah which which quality.
Speaker: It's difficult to answer this question on point because ah we really don't have a menu per se. We really need to look into each case individually. And I guess, I mean, could you do some examples of like for this kind of case, here's a kind of stuff or this kind of case, here's a kind of stuff.
Speaker: So even if it's not a comprehensive list of menu options, just kind of the flavors of different what people might get. I mean, maybe maybe an easy option is um if if, for example, a professional athlete, he's sent from a club because he has an injury. And instead of being off for the full season, the athlete comes to us and and we we try to maybe repair um a knee surgery or shoulder surgery. That might be, for example, then a cell-based treatment, for example.
Speaker: So then um the guest flies in, we do the treatment two three days. And then after a few days back, um he or she can go back and in the gym train and and and start um playing again with the team.
Speaker: And yeah. Yeah, and then maybe one one guest we had um a couple of weeks, maybe that's also on on the contrary. She's one that sits on the stage a lot. um So obviously the appearance that that she feels like motivated, energized and everything, because that asks a lot, um you know, as we as we can that some people can sometimes not imagine it as lot. They need to be highly energized. They need to be on the on the spot. They need to be very attentive. But then over the years, it's not getting easier and easier. So that's, for example, one lady that comes regularly because there are we we have we always support her with like getting the um the energetic, we do an energetic treatment, but we also do um um cell-based treatment. And then we also look at her her appearance. How can we make sure that that she shines, but not, ah I mean, Botox, of course, is ah is a quick fix, but the thing is, it's not sustainable very long. So we just, and this lady wants to be naturally looking So that's where we can support as well. So that's basically, you know, we have like healthy health diseases. We have like prevention cases. But also like when I'm from an energy perspective, when people say my values look so great and I need to be I'm the leader. I need to be there. I need to show them energy.
Speaker: And they don't feel that that they feel that something is just off and they just don't know why. and And let's talk a little bit about that. and and Because one of the examples you gave wasn't adding more things in. It was looking at, wow, you're taking all these supplements. Let's actually subtract, right? Like I historically take a lot of supplements, but I did a dry January. I just pulled everything out.
Speaker: Like, let's get back to baseline and then see what we build back up. And I think maybe that's a good entry point into unlongevity. onlongevity And what you've seen and kind of your approach now based on that of it's not always about adding more and more and more Sometimes it's about subtracting to to get back to the why. So can you talk about your journey? Like you said, kind of two decades of doing it this way and then having this realization of, whoa, this this may be too much.
Speaker: Sure. Yeah. So as you said, um and I think you you have this experience as well, that um over over the years, ah you just start seeing the pattern, you know, especially also on what we saw with our in our clinic, um people doing more and more for their health, often very disciplined, very informed and and and very successful people. And yet many of them, um they still felt exhausted, overloaded, anxious.
Speaker: um And also disconnected or just just somehow off. And at um some point, we just realized um the issue wasn't lack of effort or lack of information um because these people are very um informed. In many cases, it was actually too much fragmentation.
Speaker: So too many inputs and too many protocols, too many people are treating yeah treating their health in isolated pieces instead of looking at the whole picture.
Speaker: Yeah, I think here maybe um the advantage that we have that we we don't think in silos. We are not against supplements. We are pro if they're needed, if they're helpful. We're not against school medicine. We are pro. We are not against natural therapy. We are pro. but the The question is always when do you need what and in which combination. It's a kind of mosaic that we need to build together to ah to a nice picture. And once we have this, then I think it's round. Then guests feel good, don't have the brain fog, don't feel exhausted. and Then we're happy.
Speaker: Yeah, and I think at some point um you you realize um you can optimize yourself into exhaustion if you're not not careful with it. So um that definitely changed the way we think about health and and longevity, yeah um I would say, over the years. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, on that, i mean I'd be curious. Alively, we have what we call our five pillars. right Movement, how you move your body. Nutrition and body composition, how you fuel your body. Sleep and recovery, how you rest and restore your body.
Speaker: ah Stress and mindset, what you put into your mind. And then social connection, and your purpose, what you put out into the world. And... You can't have true health without all of those things.
Speaker: And what we see is for most people, historically, it may have just been, they they equate health with, oh, I'm really fit, right? Like it was fitness. It was just work out more and more. They're not taking care of their sleep. They may be eating poorly, drinking too much caffeine. And so like, they're not even seeing any of the others.
Speaker: And then thanks to Matthew Walker, maybe sleep came in like, oh, actually the sleep and recovery is a pretty important thing. Maybe I i should look at that. And then nutrition of, oh, wow. You know, you go read um Dr. Greger and how not to die or t Colin Campbell or somebody and you say oh, wow, the plants. Yeah, that there are a lot more nutrients in that than all this processed food. Maybe I should think about that.
Speaker: um But even as they work through it, maybe the the stress management and a ah lot that social connection and purpose, like what is the why behind If it's all internal data, internal metrics, internal optimization, that's purposeless and soulless...
Speaker: You're still kind of left empty. And maybe that's where the exhaustion comes from. Do you have a similar framework, I think, that you think across, hey, it's not just this one thing that maybe people equate with health. It's health and human health is this this broader thing.
Speaker: I think what we have to see here is you, of course, have an um when we look in at in an ideal world, you know, and an ideal situation and an ideal situation, you first know the purpose. Like, why are you here? What are your things that you need to learn? um I mean, there's different perspectives, you know, and we're not saying everybody should have our way of looking at purpose. But first of all, everybody has their own way of looking at purpose.
Speaker: Then you basically look at, okay, what do I need to go from here A to B or A to Z, if you want to say so. And then in an ideal world, um you're going to be very good from an emotional perspective and you're going to have, you're kind connected with the world. We have social or relationships and um the frequencies, they are all good. The energies are all good. And then the body doesn't really need to give you signs to say, hey, You're you're going off track. You know, I'm going to send you the symptom. Either you get it or you're going to run against the wall.
Speaker: So in an ideal world, this is not needed. And we would all be like um smiling and hugging each other and and whatever, whatever you want to um what kind of perspective you want to look at this.
Speaker: But in reality, what is just really important is that you understand where are you is your body currently standing? Because the um the body doesn't just respond to what we do. It also responds to how much we're asking from it constantly.
Speaker: So a lot of people today are layering protocols, supplements, trackers, recovery tools, optimization routines, but without really asking whether their system actually needs all of it, or actually can can can handle it.
Speaker: And over time that can create an overload instead of um resilience. So you have to see the ideal world and then where where are we currently standing? um standing And this is actually how we with all the blocks, how we look at it and and and in simple ways as what we had in the beginning, for example, supplements. Often when when someone asks us if we could talk to someone would be interested. So we have a first conversation and then normally ask us what kind of medication do you take or what supplements? And then
Speaker: it's getting more and more that they they have a list and then they stop after a minute. And then it comes the second page of the list, what they're taking. And then you say, okay, um why are you taking this, this and this? and And they don't know because it was recommended or they think it's good.
Speaker: And maybe it's good, but maybe not. So this is and something that needs to be figured out. the Same way you can take it nutrition. um and when When you take out um Let's say the emotional part. If someone wants to be vegan, it's fine. But maybe for some um eating meat is okay. Then the question is, what type of meat? It's maybe better chicken or beef or to to really go into detail and and figure out what's maybe a best case scenario and instead of You're just running blindly and and trying things out and harm harm your system. That's that's actually our biggest concern.
Speaker: There's certainly the harm potentially from the overload. i I wonder, even for myself, if you end up doing things that cancel each other out as well. So you're doing something to suppress IGF-1 and then you're doing something out like protein maxing on the other side. you saying, well, these are two totally opposite things that you're trying to do. Are you just spending a lot of money and effort to end up where you started? ah i don't know if you see that at times.
Speaker: we We do see that canceling out or actually um harming um ah the the connection, harming the body ah more or someone um that starts doing five different things um that are each supposed to help because with their friends, it worked perfectly. um Like the fasting, the cold exposure, intense training, supplements, sleep tracking. But nobody really looks at that individual, whether their nervous system, their hormones, their emotional state or current life situation can actually handle all of that. And it's it's not just simple. You know, it's not that you can just follow a protocol like when you have your business case and the company. I mean, they can run this or whatever your body not. Your body also is always finding a way of tricking you.
Speaker: You know, so um you may think, wow, it's really working and whatever. And until the day comes where it doesn't, it's it's actually a very smart system, which I think us human beings, we haven't really understood yet how the body works. And the problem is what we nowadays see a lot. If you think about the grandmas, you know, grandparents, how they have done, they were sitting in silence. A lot of them, when they had time after all the hard work, hard life they had, they said,
Speaker: no, I'm not going to do this because it doesn't feel good for me. It doesn't feel right. Or they sat and said, and they were just meditating without having to put a candle on this and this and this.
Speaker: They were just resting and and quiet, you know, and we don't like our generations. We don't have that anymore. We don't listen to the body. We always listen to the outside because the outside knows better than we do. And that's where we're kind of disconnected from our body as well.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, that's a whole language I'm having to relearn of listening to myself and my body. And, you know, because like, look, we're recording a podcast, right? So we're, as somebody hearing this, we're in their head, right? Instead of them thinking and processing, they're processing our information we're and putting into that. And there's a space for that, right? Learn from other people's mistakes, learn from experts. that That's a great way. but you also need the quiet time, the the separate time to process, to synthesize, to digest.
Speaker: Most corporate wellness programs overwhelm employees with too much, or they offer too little to be useful. Alively gets it right. We start with each employee's data and goals, then serve one clear, personalized action at a time.
Speaker: No noise, just real behavioral change. The outcome? A healthier, happier workforce. A measurable impact for your business. Visit Alively.com to see personalized wellness in action.
Speaker: I'm curious on... the listening part of, you know, like Heraclitus, no man steps in the same river twice because he's not the same man, it's not the same river.
Speaker: And so it's working till it's not. I mean, there's probably one side of it of, look, our body and our environment and different things have changed. So what worked at 25, may just It may have been great and it was the right thing in 25. And in 45, it's not because these things have changed. There's a separate piece that I'd like to ask you about too on the, hey, I saw someone else do this and it totally works for them, whether it's vegan diet or carnivore diet, whatever it is.
Speaker: And we have, when we do an RCT, we we go randomized control, so like, hey, this has this impact. Now, what it really means is there's some percent that it may have had a tremendous impact for.
Speaker: There's some percent that it may have been really bad for. and then in the middle, it's kind of a wash, right? And so it could be like a ketogenic diet, like 20% are hyper responders and it's so helpful for them and all this. I think I'm more in the, it jacks up my lipids. It's not great for me doing this super high fat and all that, but it's not a blanket answer. You say, Hey, for the average, right? This may work, but you need to try it and see if it works for you or not, because there's no guarantee you're the average. Just like there's a book, The Power of Len, around chronotypes of...
Speaker: X percent are early to bed, early to rise. And Y percent, they they're slightly later. And then you get these dolphins or something that are all over the place. And it's it's just a natural thing. And it made sense, I think, in society to have people up at different times. like You didn't want everybody in the village dead asleep if something was going on. You wanted some people up at night and some people up early. Absolutely.
Speaker: I don't know, there's a word salad, a lot going on there, but what is your take on that? It changes even for yourself over time. Absolutely. And and and that's so that's why you mentioned the five pillars. You have movement, for example, you started with the great thing.
Speaker: Absolutely. The question is, which movement for which person in which age category? When you're 70, should you run a marathon? I don't know. Maybe some can. When you're 20, of course, or going to the gym and lifting heavy weight. So you really need to see case by case, same with the nutrition, et cetera. And, and yeah, and that that's, that's what we are doing. That's what we're here for. And um yeah, some things you need to test out. um we That's why we want to share our experience because and we don't want people to test things that go into the wrong direction because investing in your health is an investment, but there's a difference if you invest.
Speaker: I mean, if I invest in the wrong stock, I might go broke, I'm still alive. If I'm in the wrong treatment, things can go really south and and things can stop. So there is a difference. This is sometimes also what what the high performers who come to us, they need to understand because if you run a company, you have a handful of KPIs and this is how you run your company. With the body, it's a little bit different. Yes, you.
Speaker: have KPIs you can run your body with, but they are changing over time and you really need to look what you're looking at and then how you're looking at it. Yeah, a little bit. awkward And that's also maybe to your question in the beginning, um what our standard protocols or what our protocols are.
Speaker: That is why we cannot give you a protocol as as that, because we always need to first understand where is this person? What is the current situation until that trust is there, until they open up and to also tell us everything. I mean, that that also takes time. You know, it's not that you just go somewhere to strangers and then all of a sudden open everything up. and Not everybody is like that.
Speaker: It's really a journey. And I think um what we just want to want to like bring out there is sometimes it's good to to take a break, to take a step back. And there is no need for fear of missing out. It will always be there. There's always the industry that wants to, like, get you into it. It will always be there, you know, so you will not miss out. And after that will be something new coming out. So no worries about this. But take a step back.
Speaker: and And then also, it's it's not easy. It's easier said to to say, okay, you need to listen to your body. I mean, sometimes that's scary. Because um if you have not done this, if you have not tried it,
Speaker: And on that fear of missing out, I guess there's this question I have on the the cost benefit analysis, right? So there's like, hey, this might have 2%, like it's speculative. It might have this marginal impact on this thing.
Speaker: And maybe it just is costly. And so it's just money. And so if you have enough money, you say fine. But there are other things that we're not sure of the benefit, but do have potential risks that haven't been as proven, haven't been a tried, don't don't know. And so is your advising guests and clients and and you're thinking through it and they say, well, i heard about this. I want to go try that. do Do people come in with their own menu? They're like, hey, I want to go do this.
Speaker: Right. They come in and they ask us for us. I mean, one c cradle that we always had since the beginning, since day one, we would never do something to someone that we haven't done to ourselves, that we haven't tested with us, with with family, with whoever. So this is something. And um yes, we look into things and, um,
Speaker: Yeah, very, very often we we say to better be safe than sorry. I mean, what they then do, yes we don't know. But um yeah, there are so many things out nowadays and and it's it's speeding up. I mean, the great thing is now there's really lots of investment and in in this field of so-called longevity, New things are coming out. um A lot of things, it's going to be great now. So with the time of AI, maybe things are speeding up, new drugs on the market, etc. So we absolutely see the the upside.
Speaker: But we also have to be careful. There's a downside. and And for us also, it's like ah that we just say um the upside, if we can um bring to the upside also not just the pure um scientific for the moment or whatever, but bring in all the experience that we have since thousands of years.
Speaker: Basically, you know, because this is now becoming people are opening up again. And also universities are opening up to it again, which they kind of um put ah behind in the shelves. But there's so much experience out there. And then to really see it's really a personalized thing. What works for some cultures here does not work for some cultures here. So there's it's sometimes difficult to have this global perspective for health. Also, you have to really understand the individual.
Speaker: And that's just really important what we want to say. Yeah. And and maybe my last thought on this ah for us, it's always like if you're in doubt, zoom out. Yes. So really, yes, take a step back and think it through logically. Feel.
Speaker: How do you feel about it? Yes. And on that, I guess I do have a question because therere there's so many things you can do, right? The the universe, the menu is so big. And if you look at the measurable impact, right, like for longevity specifically, as as far as I understand it, we've found zero interventions that come as close as fasting, right? Like if you look at intense fasting, especially on on like the mice studies, it is by far the the longest you can get 30% or whatever. And then rapamycin of molecules is the next one.
Speaker: um But it's still a tiny fraction of what fasting can do. And then we know the the big macros of you can cut all cause mortality in half by moving your body vigorously for a certain amount of time and in different pieces like that.
Speaker: For someone... And you come at it from a place of not just adding more and more more, but distilling down to what's needed. What is the 80-20? What is the, hey, here's the place to start for someone listening to that. You're like, yes, you could do all these things, but here's the thing to just start with before you start layering on all these other things.
Speaker: To be um quite frank, for us is to first understand where is your highest priority um from a biological, from an emotional, from an energetic, from a purpose perspective, or also cognitive. We're really cognitive ah way, a lot cognitive, sorry. But um you first have to understand where is your biggest priority. um And then once you see this, um you work on that first. For us, there is no 80, 20. You're going need to do this. You're going to do that because you bring this ah this this um example of fasting.
Speaker: from the numbers, from the scientific, yes, maybe. But the thing is, you have to see what the person goes through, you know, like emotionally. It's not that um some people are easy. They do it easily. They can do it easily. No problem. And they are the ones to tell the stories. But you have also those words, not as easy, you know, and it actually brings them down a roller coaster and also emotionally. And the thing is, what you trade off is like the part of happiness, you know, and just easygoingness.
Speaker: Versus, oh, I start feeling good and I think I see the colors brighter. And, you know, I mean, it's you really have to see an individual and say, where does it really bring us at the biggest advantage? That is such an individual thing where I think scientifically it's not it's not there's no data for it because it's not a big enough of group um that that has a a similar pattern, if you want to say so. So.
Speaker: ah for For us, it's it's not really this one thing works for all that does not for us does not exist. and And some people, they want to do the next diet and that's fine.
Speaker: Completely fine if that makes them happy. Yeah, the hyper personalized makes a lot of sense. Well, Andreas and Ramona, it's been a fantastic conversation. I really appreciate not just your work with ImidCell, but also the kind of counter take on it with on longevity and in the story you're sharing.
Speaker: For our listeners who want to follow you, learn more about you and your work, where can they find you? Yeah, um the easiest is to go on unlongevity.com. Unlongevity.com. This is, yeah, how people who are interested in what we're doing can find us. Yeah, it's the first starting point.
Speaker: Fantastic. Well, thank you both so much. Have a lively day. Thank you very much. Same to you. Thanks, Andrew. Thank you for joining us on today's episode of the Home of Healthspan podcast.
Speaker: And remember, you can always find the products, practices, and routines mentioned by today's guests, as well as many other healthspan role models on Alively.com. Enjoy a lively day.
