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Episode 44: Abby Jiu - Moving from $500 Weddings to Six Figure Weddings
197 Plays5 years ago
Today’s guest is wedding photographer Abby Jiu. Abby has been named one of Martha Stewart Weddings’ top wedding photographers, and has been published in places like Martha Stewart Weddings, Southern Weddings, and the Knot.
Today Abby is sharing how she was able to jump from shooting $500 weddings to six figure weddings. And she also shares a few tips for getting published.
For show notes and additional resources, check out https://daveyandkrista.com/btb-abby-jiu-episode-44/.
Recommended
Transcript
Pre-Planning and Key Shots Strategy
00:00:05
Speaker
look around and think about how I was going to pre-plan that day, where I was going to take the pictures, where I was going to get that key shot that was going to take my business to the next level. So where was I going to get that bouquet shot that matched the brand that I wanted to have? So making sure you're setting yourself up for that day to get the images that are going to take your business to the next level.
Introduction and Guest Overview
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Speaker
Welcome to the Brands at Book Show, where we help creative, service-based businesses build their brands and find more clients. I'm your host, Davy Jones.
00:00:41
Speaker
Today's guest is wedding photographer Abby
Abby's Wedding Photography Journey
00:00:43
Speaker
Jew. Abby has been named one of Martha Stewart wedding's top wedding photographers and has been published in places like Martha Stewart Weddings, Southern Weddings, and The Knot. Today, Abby is sharing how she was able to jump from shooting $500 weddings to six-figure weddings, and she also shares a few tips for getting published.
00:00:59
Speaker
Be sure to check out the show notes at davianchristo.com for the resources we mentioned during the episode, and I'd like to hear from you about what kind of content you'd like to see on the Brancif Book Podcast as we move forward.
Welcome and Personal Connections
00:01:10
Speaker
I'd also like to know what episodes you've enjoyed most so far and why. To leave your feedback, head on over to the Davian Christo Facebook page and send us a message. Now, on to the episode.
00:01:27
Speaker
All right, well, Abby, welcome to the Brands at Book Show. I'm excited to chat because Chris and I have been following your work for a long time, and I don't know if we've ever got a chance to connect, but I know you've gotten a chance to connect with Chris in the past.
From Low-Budget to High-End Weddings
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Speaker
So I'm excited that we get to chat this morning. I'm excited to be here too. I've been listening to Brands at Book for a while, so I found it super helpful for my business, and I'm excited to share more on here today.
00:01:48
Speaker
Yeah, that's awesome. And we have a lot of fun stuff to talk about. We're going to get into talking about how you got started and then what, you know, how along the way you've been able to get published in all sorts of major wedding publications. And we're going to talk a little bit about just
00:02:04
Speaker
Basically, that gap or that jump from shooting low-budget weddings in the beginning of a career to getting to a high-end market.
Career Transition to Photography
00:02:14
Speaker
I'm excited to dive in about that. But first, tell us how you got started in wedding photography. What did that look like? Yeah. When you say starting at those low-budget weddings, I definitely started at the bottom. I wasn't lucky enough to have a friend who asked me to shoot her beautiful wedding.
00:02:31
Speaker
So actually after I graduated college, I got a job and in sales and pharmaceutical sales and I didn't really love it, but obviously it was something good that has helped me today. So I did it for a little while and it helped obviously with, you know, sales training and getting this formal training of how to deal with rejection and also really just like putting myself out there because
00:03:01
Speaker
I think as creatives, we go into this being passionate as we should about photography or planning or website design. And it's not really about sales, but obviously our job is because if not, I mean, how would we make any money?
Business Growth and Brand Curation
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Speaker
So I wouldn't say my job is obviously all about sales now, but it did give me that training and really helped me to put myself out there and learn that hearing no is the worst thing. And so it's okay to do some of those things that you're not comfortable with.
00:03:30
Speaker
So that was a long time ago that I did pharmaceutical sales. So I started Abigee Photography 10 years ago and I got my first couple of weddings off of Craigslist. And that's what I mean by starting at the bottom. Yeah, that is awesome. Because after I moved here to DC, I didn't know anyone. So I didn't have like a friend network to pull from to do any weddings. So that is literally how I started my business.
Networking and Market Gaps
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Speaker
And then about like five years into the business, I was able to raise my prices so much that I realized that I was passing on a lot of weddings to other people because maybe I was booked or I was too expensive.
00:04:11
Speaker
And I remember there was this one specific photographer, I think I referred her like five to seven weddings in one year. And I was like, I think there's a big gap here. So around the same time, I stumbled upon a very talented photographer, Lisa Ziezing. And now she's been my associate for five years. And we work together a lot in the office and we both shoot weddings on our own.
00:04:31
Speaker
So by the fact that I was able to raise my prices, I've been able to bring on what I call the other half of my brain that Lisa's easing as well. Yeah, that's awesome. And I love how you identified the fact that there's all sorts of people who want to work with you and they love your work, but they can't quite afford you. And so you brought an associate there. I want to go back a little bit too and talk about your previous sales training or at least that experience that you got through being a pharmaceutical rep. Because he said something that was really interesting, which is you can get over that fear of rejection because I think
00:05:00
Speaker
Creatives especially go into it with their work over their heart a little bit. So when somebody says no, whether that's they don't want to work with them or they're struggling to find clients, they take that really personally.
Overcoming Rejection in Business
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Speaker
So can you talk a little bit about early on how that sales training specifically helped you deal with that fear of rejection?
00:05:24
Speaker
Yeah. So my job was a hundred percent sales. I was in my car all day calling on these doctors. And I remember being in the car sometimes and just really not even wanted to go in because I was, I didn't really like the job, but it was my job and I had to go in and I had to give the sales pitch and I had to talk to this doctor who probably didn't even want to talk to me because he was busy. He or she was busy seeing patients and there were so many other things they could be doing.
00:05:48
Speaker
But I had to, and that was my job and I had to do at least eight visits a day. So it was just something that I had to do and it was part of my daily routine. So I think that that's been helpful for Abigail photography because it's just something that I do every day now. I mean, I don't like think of it that way as far as like a sales call all the time.
00:06:10
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but just something that you have to put yourself in those uncomfortable situations. And I think the more that you do it, the more that you get comfortable with it and that being told no to isn't usually personal. And that if you don't take that chance, then you're not going to grow or build your business personally as well.
Curating Wedding Photography Aesthetics
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Speaker
Yeah, you're not being able to get to that point where somebody can say yes because you're too scared to ask to begin with. But I think that's such a valuable lesson that you've learned early on even before you started your own business because I think anybody who started their own business at some point along the way has been told no and most likely has been told no over and over and over again.
00:06:48
Speaker
And like you mentioned, not the worst thing in the world. I mean, that's the worst case scenario, right? Is that somebody says no? But of worst case scenarios, it's not business ending, right? It just allows us to get to yeses that are more meaningful and with the clients that we want to serve.
00:07:04
Speaker
So, I guess, fast-forwarding a little bit back to making that jump from Craigslist to a much more high-end market. I want to talk about doing that specifically as a wedding photographer. If you're shooting weddings that are something that you booked off of Craigslist, my guess is, and maybe this is unfair, that it's a relatively low-budget wedding.
00:07:27
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. I assume that sometimes or the aesthetic might reflect that. And so you get stuck in this cycle of sharing work that isn't exactly reflective of the work that you want to eventually be shooting. So can you tell us a little bit how you were able to raise your prices so significantly while shooting $500 weddings to get to this
Social Media and Networking Strategies
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Speaker
higher end market?
00:07:49
Speaker
Yeah, so I would say it definitely wasn't one significant thing or a magic bullet. It was literally just time after time taking each shoot and each wedding and figuring out what details and what things about it I can pull to best represent my brand and elevate it to the next level.
00:08:09
Speaker
So I remember when I first started, there were things like sometimes the bride's dress would be really beautiful and then groom suit would kind of be ill fitting or just not that great. The bride would definitely spend more time and money off her budget on her dress. So I would do things that like put her.
00:08:26
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full frontal on to show off her gorgeous dress, and then maybe turn the groom to the side. So he's looking at the bride. So he's still in the picture. They're still going to love the picture, but it's just kind of an example of how you can curate your weddings and curate your work and take the little things you have, even if it's from Craigslist and even if it's super low budget and make it look better. And I think that's the key thing to do is to take that wedding or take any kind of shoot.
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Speaker
and make it better for your brand. Where would you share most of this imagery? I'm guessing it's through things like Instagram. Is that where most of your future weddings would come from? As you learn to share these specific details, are you sharing them across your social media platforms?
00:09:11
Speaker
So, I mean, when I started 10 years ago, I don't think Instagram existed. I kind of remember, I can't remember a world without it. I know, right. So then I did a lot of networking and that was something too, that helped with my pharmaceutical sales job because literally what I was supposed to do every day was calling these doctors that were 30 or 40 years older than me and didn't really care. And then when I remember, when I switched to the wedding world, I was like, Oh, I get to like talk to people that are my age and they are usually
00:09:41
Speaker
females just like me and we have so much more to talk about. So it was good in the fact that I learned to quote unquote target people in pharmaceutical sales and then use that same kind of mentality to how to get referrals in the wedding business. And I think also too, I mean, obviously we always talk about networking.
00:10:02
Speaker
But I think starting out, one of the things that is the best to do is to start your relationships early because I feel like sometimes, you know, no matter what stage your career is, people are always trying to network, but sometimes they're trying to network with people that have already developed relationships. So I wouldn't say obviously don't take that chance, do, but something that has been really, really helpful for me was starting relationships early.
00:10:30
Speaker
And those were like identifying good wedding planners that were just starting their business that I really connected with. Our styles were very similar and they had a lot of drive as well. So that was really good because we've built our businesses together and have become very loyal and also great friendships too.
00:10:52
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I really like that advice. I mean, again, just, and it's cool to see, you know, pharmaceutical sales training, you know, coming into play into your wedding photography business as well. So just a review here, curating those images and showing off details that maybe a little bit or reflect a little bit more of the kind of weddings that you want to shoot and then jumping into networking here.
00:11:12
Speaker
And I think a great point about targeting other people who are also early in their career, also talented, but those people who are much more established, it just might be harder to get into that referral circle, right? It might be harder to get because they have people that they've probably referred out to.
00:11:30
Speaker
not impossible. And definitely, you know, like you said, you know, not a reason not to try to reach out to that kind of person. But I know that was true of us when we started our photography business was really just reaching out to a bunch of other people who were, you know, only semi established and really just kind of getting started and breaking into that market. Because what ended up happening was we ended up on all of each other's
00:11:51
Speaker
kind of that referral list, you know, where if you're booked, here's, you know, here's who I'm going to, we were on their list to send names out to, right? And then same thing with like wedding planners who were just getting started, you know, early on, a lot of our brides didn't quite have the budget for a wedding planner, but we'd always recommend one, you know? Right, yeah. And that went a long way, you know, years down the road when that wedding planner was a little bit more established and now people were going to her first and then looking for a photographer, you know? Right, yeah.
Building Long-Term Business Relationships
00:12:20
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. I mean, I feel like now the stage I'm in, it's a lot of wedding planner referrals. So clients will first go to the planner and then the planner will then recommend the photographer. But as you mentioned in the beginning, they always need a photographer, but they don't necessarily think they need a planner. So I was
00:12:38
Speaker
working with planners. One of them is Carson Butler. And I remember I met Amber at this paper source stamping class and I realized she was a planner and I was like, Oh, I really like her. I'm going to get to know her better. So we went to lunch and I remember I like told her what style me pretty was. This is the very beginning shows how long ago it was, but that was the beginning of our businesses and how we built them together.
00:13:00
Speaker
So I got this one wedding and I thought I was like, oh my gosh, this is kind of a cool wedding. Maybe we can do more with it. And I need a planner for this. So I recommended them. They gave special pricing to the client because they were starting out too and they wanted to get business.
00:13:17
Speaker
So we did the wedding together. They created some amazing details that I was able to photograph and it just really helped both elevate our brands at the same time. But I think it's good because as I mentioned in the beginning, the photographers have the chance to refer the planner and that really builds this solid relationship that I'm still friends with so many of these planners that we started out together and we really truly help our business. It helps both of our businesses today still to this day.
00:13:45
Speaker
I always thought that photographers had an unfair advantage as far as just networking and things like that because everybody's marketing collateral really comes back through us. At least in the wedding industry, all the other vendors on a wedding day are waiting for us to share our images so that they can then share images from that day. It's just such an easy way to build relationships. But going back to that,
00:14:08
Speaker
Are there certain networking events that you targeted early on or was it more targeting individuals that you knew were getting started? How did you figure out, you know, who to build a relationship with? Yeah, so it was a little bit of random things like meeting people out at paper sources. And then at the same time, it doesn't exist. They don't really do it anymore. But there was this local blog that had a happy hour. And I would go to that. It was a monthly thing. And that's where I met a lot of other people.
00:14:36
Speaker
I mean, one of them, I remember it was Lauren Prattus and I met her there and I really loved her skirt. I know that sounds so like shallow or something that you would think about, but I realized, you know, we kind of have the same style. And I remember sitting with her after the happy hour ended and we got drinks and we started this great relationship at this networking event. And it was just because I liked her outfit.
00:15:00
Speaker
Yeah, that's awesome. I mean, I guess the part of the moral of the story is just to put yourself out there and go up to people and say hi and be
Wedding Curation and Brand Quality
00:15:08
Speaker
intentional about following up with them because after this class that you attended, you could have just let that go, but instead you followed up and built that relationship.
00:15:18
Speaker
you know, hesitate using the word targeting because it does make it sound like this, this tactical, impersonal, you know, way of going about things. But I think people get through what you're saying that everything is very relational based, you know, you liked her skirt, and so you went up and said hi. And, you know, it turns out that a good friendship formed from that, you know, which, you know, probably has, you know, business ramifications and things like that.
00:15:39
Speaker
So curating, networking, what else? What other tips do you have for people who are in similar positions, you know, based on how you raised your prices from sort of low end budget to a higher end budget? Yes, I want to go back to curating again, because I know we passed over that briefly. And I think that's something so huge. So I'm a huge planner. Anything I can plan and control on the front end, I think is
00:16:06
Speaker
that helps me build my business. So I think that every wedding, even if it's a mediocre wedding, every mediocre wedding gives you a chance to elevate your brand. And the way to do that is to make sure that you control the timeline and the timeline doesn't control you. And the reason why I say that is because you are pre-planning the day and thinking about those images or
00:16:30
Speaker
Just the details that you can pull out that are going to be nice that you think are going to elevate your brand. So say, for example, You admire this florist and she's going to be the florist for that wedding. So make sure that you have a lot of time to shoot the details or that you know you're going to get great bouquet shots because even when you're starting out.
00:16:50
Speaker
Those are like some easy shots are going to get the bouquet shot that bride holding the holding the beautiful flowers. So really thinking about the day and how you can get those images. And so it was a lot of hustle in the beginning. I would the wedding venues would be an hour and a half, two hours away and I would still go there before the wedding and
00:17:09
Speaker
look around and I would say like weeks before the wedding, look around and think about how I was going to pre-plan that day, where I was going to take the pictures, where I was going to get that key shot that was going to take my business to the next level. So where was I going to get that bouquet shot that match the brand that I wanted to have and make sure that I have enough time to do that. So that's where that timeline goes back to it. So making sure you're setting yourself up for that day to get the images that are going to take your business to the next level.
00:17:35
Speaker
Yeah, I think being intentional about that is really helpful because you don't have to share everything from the day, even. And I think that's something that we kind of learned early on. And I remember kind of that shift in mindset from going from thinking we have to share pretty much all these images from every single wedding, and then all of a sudden getting intentional about the stuff that we were sharing, which meant going back on our blog, deleting a bunch of content that was already there, and then not only being intentional
Strategic Wedding Photography and Publication
00:18:04
Speaker
about
00:18:04
Speaker
the wedding images that we shared but even the weddings that we shared and making sure that anything that we put out there was the kind of work that we wanted to Continue to shoot. So do you blog every wedding that you that you shoot or are you kind of selective about what goes on the blog? Do you blog at all? Yeah, I started blogging again, but just in terms of like sharing yeah now I can I share everything cuz I sure that after 10 years I've been able to build a brand that I I
00:18:33
Speaker
Like every wedding represents the brand, but in the beginning I was so, so picky about what went out and what I shared and just how I photograph because I think that's what really helped to elevate and really only just sharing things that you think match the brand that you want to have. So for me, that was like a luxury client that was more high end. So I wanted to make sure that every detail, you know, background matched elevating the brand.
00:19:03
Speaker
And that was, I guess that's it being very, very curated. And now I'm not as much, but definitely in the beginning, very, very particular about what went out there. Especially early on, was there anything that you did as far as with your clients in trying to encourage them to do certain things or avoid certain things just so that you could get the kind of shot that you want? Yeah. I mean, I think it's even just like, say, for example, I wanted
00:19:27
Speaker
some shots that the timeline didn't allow for in the day. I would just go an hour early to shoot some things. And I wouldn't charge that client because I knew that these details were going to help my business and those were going to be the images that I showed. So now today someone's starting to be the ones that they would Instagram. So I think that's the thing is to really figure those out, like I said, and, and figure out how you're going to get them. So.
00:19:53
Speaker
I would go early. I would shoot the details. I would shoot the invitations. I would bring backgrounds for the invitations. I would ask the client ahead of time what the invitation looked like. So I could bring some backgrounds. I could bring little things that would go in the shot, anything to elevate that brand. And obviously it was very cohesive and it matched for the client. So the client was really happy to get all of these images too.
00:20:17
Speaker
and to make their wedding look even better. So I think it's really just about taking that wedding and making it look better than it actually maybe happened to be in person. So basically you have a styling kit too that you bring along just to make sure that there's some other stuff to go into detail shots if maybe they're lacking detail.
00:20:36
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. Because I mean, usually they have a bouquet, they have shoes, they have an invitation suite. So those are some things that you can use of theirs, obviously to shoot for them, but things that you can bring to make it even better.
00:20:52
Speaker
Sure. And I like what you said about the timeline too. I think we routinely showed up like 30 minutes early. And like you said, didn't charge a client about for that, but just looked at it sort of like a marketing, you know, marketing 30 minutes, you know, like whatever we were able to shoot extra on our own time, we'd be able to use that, you know, at for marketing collateral, you know, down the road. So it was worth, you know, showing up and getting those those extra images that maybe we wouldn't have time for otherwise during the day. So I really like that.
00:21:20
Speaker
So curating, networking, and there's something else. Yeah. So another thing that was very important that helped build my business was getting published. I remember starting and everything in the wedding market and still is today is so saturated and the barrier to entry is so low. So how can you set yourself apart? And one of those things was getting published. So.
00:21:48
Speaker
I made it a point from the beginning to figure out how to do that and really like, you know, going back to the other two things like networking with people that are going to help you get published because you have the same vision and then also.
00:22:02
Speaker
showing up an hour early to get those images that you're going to use to get published. So that was how I did it in the beginning was using all of those things to make sure going into the day that it was ready and that I was setting myself up to get images for the client and for publication as well.
00:22:19
Speaker
How do you target publications in the beginning? Did you have certain ones in mind that you wanted to get published in? And what did that look like? Yeah, so I think that it's about starting small. So for me, it was local blogs and that one I talked about where
00:22:35
Speaker
Earlier where I convinced the client to hire Carson Butler events. We were like, oh, this could be something that gets published. So we did work on it really hard and figure out the details and the timeline. And we did get it published in a local blog and it was something that we could share. Obviously, you know, today I would share it on Instagram and.
00:22:55
Speaker
really curate still the images, but show that you're published and give you that notoriety. So I think it's about starting small in the beginning. Yeah. So even local blogs. And the thing is too about, you know, I think just getting published or being able to say that you got published is a form of social proof.
Benefits and Strategies for Getting Published
00:23:12
Speaker
Right? I mean, it doesn't, to a certain extent, people, I mean, yeah, there's certain publications that people are going to definitely say like, oh, wow, that's, that's incredible. But even if it's, even if it's smaller blogs, I think people are still going to be inherently like impressed with that or, you know, future clients, prospects. But in addition to that, and this is kind of the, the SEO nerd in me, you know, I feel like almost there's a place for probably almost every wedding, you know? Yeah, definitely.
00:23:36
Speaker
and almost all your work. And especially if it's an online publication, you know, at the very least, that means a link back to your website, maybe some additional traffic, even if it's a small local blog. But the great thing about that, even if it's a small local blog, it's probably sending back very qualified traffic because it's people that actually live in your area. Like, yeah, getting published in Style Me Pretty is a little bit more
00:23:58
Speaker
I held in a higher regard probably than the local blog, but somebody who's on the other side of the country than you that really loves your work that they found on Sound Me Pretty may or may not have the budget to fly you across the country to shoot their own wedding. I think especially when people are getting started,
00:24:16
Speaker
definitely aim for those local blogs. And, you know, I think you get more qualified traffic. And at the very least, a link back to your website, which, you know, does help optimize your website does help you get greater search visibility. So that's great. Like, what do you think makes the difference in a wedding or work that gets published versus work that doesn't get picked up for publication?
00:24:38
Speaker
Yeah, I think, well, like you said, there's a home mostly for every wedding and some kind of publication if it's shot correctly. So I think it's about studying the publication. I mentioned before, I'm all about planning. So how can you do your homework and study these publications and figure out what images they want? Because overall, it's pretty consistent. I mean, even though they're showing different weddings from all over the country or all over the world,
00:25:05
Speaker
It generally boils down to some of the same images over and over. And if you want to get published in that particular publication, then it can become second nature to get those images that they're looking for. I mean, obviously the first thing you want to do is please the client and make sure that they're happy with images. But on top of that, you can also add into your workflow how to get those images as well. So for example, I know that Martha Stewart weddings, they love a lot of natural lit photos.
00:25:35
Speaker
So one huge thing is the cake. They love a cake in daylight, but usually, unless it's a brunch wedding, which aren't as popular when couples cut the cake, it's after dark. So how can you set up that timeline to get the cake in daylight? And so work with the planner, work with the caterer and figure out how you can take that shot before the sun goes down, because that's a very important image for publication, especially if the cake is something different or.
00:26:04
Speaker
tells the story of the day, tells the story of the couple. Say, for example, they have their grandparents topper on it or that the details of the cake match the bride's dress. You want that image for publication because it's going to complete the circle, but it also needs to be in the medium that they're looking for. So get it in daylight.
00:26:25
Speaker
So and how would you how do you go about doing doing this research? Because I think this is fascinating. I mean, I think that's a great observation. Right. That that you knew Martha Stewart weddings wants to have a shot of the cake in daylight. What are some ways or what are some things that people can do to actually do the research on these publications? Like I'm guessing Martha Stewart and maybe I'm wrong here. Maybe you're going to be like, well, Martha Stewart has a page and they say specifically, you know, but I think it's just studying it. I mean, looking at all the past issues.
00:26:55
Speaker
Looking online, there is a consistency that they like. Like Martha Stewart, they love a good flat lay of the invitation. They love a good cake shot. They like stylish guests. So that's something that sometimes people don't think about, but I have been lucky enough to shoot weddings for Martha Stewart when they knew that was going into the magazine. So a stylist was coming along with me to point out details that I was supposed to get.
00:27:18
Speaker
And one of them was stylish guests because of course you want to show the cake and the details and the bride and groom, but they also want to show other things that it was a real wedding.
Curating Content for Business Growth
00:27:27
Speaker
So just really studying the publications because there actually is a formula to it. I mean, not every wedding is the same. They may not show the detail of the cake in every wedding that they feature, but probably if you look at it eight times out of 10, it will be a shot in there. So.
00:27:43
Speaker
Just study that and then say, okay, so we need this shot like the cake. We need the invitation shot. We need this. So when are we going to get it and how, and do I have enough time in my timeline? And if you are working with a planner or a caterer or someone else who wants to get published too, then game plan with them and figure out how you're going to make it in the timeline. And if that means you need to add extra time to your photography, then do it. Go show up 30 minutes early.
00:28:09
Speaker
so you can photograph them, and then you're going to give yourself 30 minutes later to photograph those details. Would you say, so we've talked about curating images, we've talked about networking, and we've talked about getting published, and I'm sure all three things have worked together. Getting published being a great form of validation and social proof, but then also networking, getting maybe connected with other people who are at sort of the level that you would like to be, and then curating images and showing that
00:28:39
Speaker
You know, you actually shoot and maybe it's because you're not currently shooting the kind of wedding that you want, but you're capable of shooting the kind of wedding that you want because you've very been very picky about the kind of image that you're sharing from that wedding. What would you say of those three things? And I know they're all important, but of those three things, what would you say is the most important? Like if someone had to get started today, what would be kind of the first thing that you that you tell them to do of those three things that you outlined?
00:29:08
Speaker
So I think for someone starting out, I think the biggest thing that can help them is to take that wedding that they have and elevate it. So curate it, have a good timeline.
00:29:19
Speaker
and pull out the details that you wanna show because that's the thing that you can control the most. Obviously relationships are important and those will come, but you have to start there and you have to build that imagery and you have to build that content. So I think it's about starting from the beginning and making sure that you're setting your day up to get the images that you then in turn want to show.
00:29:41
Speaker
Yeah, and I gotta imagine that when you meet people too at networking events, I mean, I think we all do this is, you know, we meet somebody that's interesting and we look at maybe their Instagram now, you know, it maybe used to be their blog, right? And kind of see the kind of work that they're shooting. And if we've done a good job of like curating or being picky about that work, like you said,
00:29:58
Speaker
you know, all of a sudden, if we just met a planner who really liked us, you know, when we met, we made a good impression, then they go to look at our work and it is curated and it does look good. You know, I think it makes it much more likely, right, that they're going to end up referring us and carrying on that relationship, whereas if they go back and they look at our work and it's
00:30:17
Speaker
kind of all over the place and we're sharing absolutely everything. Maybe we've wasted that good first impression. Maybe we're not as likely to get a referral with that planner, whoever that may be. And I do think these first two things that you mentioned curating and networking are probably a little bit more in a person's control.
00:30:36
Speaker
You know and so most of this is something that people can do i think curating something very simple that people can do and if you're not sure exactly how to go about curating your work i'm sure you can find a friend that maybe can help you whittle down what it is that you should be sharing but even networking.
00:30:53
Speaker
Networking's hard because it feels like it's out of our control, but it very much is. Like actually going to those events and actually seeking out those relationships, connecting with people via social media or whatever, and then following up in person, I think all of that's very much in your control. So I really like the advice that you've given today. So I have two more questions for you, and they're kind of out of order, all right?
00:31:15
Speaker
First, it's about curating. Then I want to ask you about getting published again, because you've been published in a lot of major publications, including Martha. So I want to talk a little bit more about that. But for curating, if someone doesn't know how to go about curating their images, and that's something as web designers we get a lot, which is people will send us a folder of images for their website. And it will be, let's say it's 1,000 images when we only need 10. And the struggle is, I don't know which ones to pick.
00:31:44
Speaker
So could you speak to a little bit how you curate your images, like how you choose what you're going to share, you know, specifically, like, even if you were just thinking about it for Instagram, let's say, like, what are the kind of images that you're going to be sharing versus what kind of images get left out? Well, in figuring out which ones, and I like what you said, like getting a friend, because I think that sometimes we are so emotionally attached to our images,
00:32:08
Speaker
We might love this photo because we love the couple and we were so excited that we actually got that photo, but maybe it's not really a good photo. So I think what you mentioned about having someone else look at it, if you don't know where to start when curating, that is the first step. So whether it be a friend that you know has great style or that one day they would be your ideal client, that you ask them to help you with that because I think getting an objective point of view is so important. And I still do that today.
00:32:38
Speaker
When Lisa and I were going back to the galleries of our website, we were so emotionally attached to some of the weddings and some of the images that we got someone else to look at it. And that has been so helpful to get this outsider perspective. So even today that I curate, but I still need help curating too.
00:32:57
Speaker
Yeah, I know for a lot of our brand design clients, that's one of the big things that we go through is just figuring out what images to share. And a lot of times we're thinking digitally on your website, but I do think an outside perspective is just so important.
Consistent Brand Messaging
00:33:13
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. And then as far as you're asking how I pick, I feel like it just kind of come over time and now it's kind of a subconscious thing. But I think in the beginning it's about
00:33:26
Speaker
figuring out, and this has been talked about so many times, but I think it's been talked about because it's important, but figuring out who your ideal client is, where do you want to go with your brand? So your brand is starting out in the beginning, but where do you want it to be? And did you happen to come across some of those details or some of
00:33:43
Speaker
that look on the day of the wedding, then share it. Make sure that that is the image that you are putting out there. And I think in the beginning too, when you don't have a lot of content, it's okay to share it, share it over and over. Maybe you got a picture of the bouquet, but you got a picture of it a few different times during the day. Share all of that over and over to then reinforce your brand. I think, you know, if you, even if you just look back at like
00:34:08
Speaker
fashion bloggers or fashion influencers today who share stuff on Instagram, they might share their same outfit over and over and over in different settings, but it's impactful and it builds their brand. And that's how they're sharing content. So I think it's okay that to share quality over quantity. So you want it to match your brand and where you want it to go. And it's okay to share it in a few different ways.
00:34:32
Speaker
Yeah, I think I, you know, I always tell people, especially when it comes to messaging, but I think probably the true, the same is true for imagery as well. You know, if you feel like you're, if you feel like you're saying something too much, you're probably, you're probably saying it enough, you know, like it's probably just the right amount. And I think what we do is we have a tendency to undershare and just think that every image that we put out there or everything that we've ever said, like people, people heard that before, so we can't ever say it again, you know? Right. Isn't there the statistic, like it takes seven times of exposure before someone really
00:35:02
Speaker
takes action on a brand. So they need to see it on your blog, on your Instagram, on someone else's Instagram, and then your story, and then maybe a publication. It takes so many things, and that's how I've built my business today is just being out there a lot on other people's Instagram and on publications.
00:35:19
Speaker
really building those relationships. So maybe when they go visit a venue, we're on the venue recommended list. So it's all these things of laying that foundation so that people see you continuously. And then they're like, Oh, I've heard about her. Maybe, maybe I should contact her for my wedding.
00:35:34
Speaker
Yeah. And even across all those things, like your message is probably pretty similar, you know, from, from podcast to podcast or whatever it may be, you know, even in, I'm thinking about running Facebook ads, which is something that, that we do. And I have a business where we, we manage ads and just thinking about the frequency in which people see ads, you know, like I'm not aiming for somebody to see an ad just once, you know, I want them to see it, you know, five, six, seven times. And that's okay with me because I know that it's going to take a while. Sometimes it just takes a while for a message to click. I think,
00:36:03
Speaker
Chris listens to Dave Ramsey every day. I don't know if you're familiar with Dave Ramsey, but he's a big financial guru, debt-free, all this. If you listen to his radio show, it's like the same thing every single day, but I think that's the most impactful part about it. If you talk to another Dave Ramsey fan, they can repeat verbatim the phrases that he uses every day on his show, and they don't get
Persistence and Overcoming Rejection
00:36:27
Speaker
old. It just takes a while for it to click.
00:36:30
Speaker
So really glad that you mentioned that. The last thing that I want to chat about is just if you have any advice for somebody who aspires to to get featured in a magazine like Martha, you know, and I imagine that like I guess a quick first question before I get to that question. How how long did it take in your career to get to being published in a magazine like Martha? Yeah, so they don't really do this anymore since Martha has changed their structure.
00:36:59
Speaker
But they used to do weddings where they put them on. So they were either pre-submitted and they decided they want to send a team of stylists to be part of that wedding. So oddly enough, the first wedding that I had featured in Martha was where I was on the team. So it was through networking. I had met the editor, Shira.
00:37:21
Speaker
Savada at engage a long time ago and through meeting her at the conference and I then like you said, I think that a very current.
00:37:32
Speaker
and continuous theme in networking is following up. So after I met her at Engage, I also then talked about coming to visit her in New York. So when my husband was up there on a business trip, I went up along with him to New York and made plans to go see Shira at the Martha Stewart offices.
00:37:52
Speaker
And so just really started forming that relationship and I had submitted weddings to her before, but she, none of them worked out. So I think it's continuously submitting and it's okay to be told no, but then there was a wedding that they are shooting in DC and they needed a photographer for it to shoot details for the magazine. And that was my first time doing it and being published in the magazine.
00:38:13
Speaker
Yeah, I think there's just so much like just in that one minute snippet here, there's just so many like good lessons from a I love that I love the one of the answers was networking, you know, I love it went back to a relationship that you you had built. And then the second thing that I really like about what you just said was that you had submitted stuff before and you know, they said no.
00:38:36
Speaker
but you continue to submit and eventually something worked out. I think that again, we have a tendency to quit after we hear no for the first time, but had you done that, then whatever that wedding that eventually was submitted in or published would have probably never been published. I love everything that you just said right there. I think there's so many lessons in that. Do you have any other advice for people who aspire to
00:39:03
Speaker
you know, do the same. And I know it might not be Martha, and I know things have changed there. I know things just in general, I feel like I've changed in the publishing world lately. And there's been all sorts of things going on like the knot and the wedding wire merger and all and all that. But you know, that aside, what advice do you have for somebody who's, you know, trying to get published?
00:39:21
Speaker
I think some of the things we talked about, one, like you said, not being afraid of rejection and that literally don't be afraid to submit. You obviously want to do your homework and feel good about your submission and think that it's a good fit for that magazine. So don't waste the editor's time. But if you feel very strongly that you think that it could be a good fit for that publication, then submit. And that's okay if it's no.
00:39:46
Speaker
It's good that you're in that editor's inbox. They might take note that they liked your style, but that actual wedding wasn't the right fit. So by the time you submit again, or maybe by the fifth time, then you might get your first wedding in. So don't be afraid to submit because if you get told no, that's the worst thing and just do it again.
00:40:07
Speaker
Yeah, and I haven't met a photographer. I don't know of anybody who's never been rejected. And not just photographer, I mean across industries. I was reading a Stephen King autobiography recently and the amount of times that he got rejected before something got picked up and he became who he was.
00:40:24
Speaker
So I just don't know of anybody who's never been rejected. Even later in our photography career, after we had been published a number of times, there's still times where we submitted weddings and it didn't get picked up. I think as you start getting picked up and as you start getting published, it's just more likely that editors and magazines and publications are going to pick you up, but it still happens.
00:40:46
Speaker
I think that's such great advice for people, and I think that extends even beyond the getting published world. There's just so many things that happen early in people's businesses where they get some sort of rejection or hit some sort of roadblock, and then that's the end of the road.
Episode Conclusion and Gratitude
00:41:00
Speaker
I think I'd be interested in seeing of all the businesses that fail, and it's an astronomical number when you look at how many businesses survive one, five, 10 years,
00:41:09
Speaker
How many, you know, and there's no way to measure this, but how many just received some sort of now, you know, not necessarily in getting published, but just some sort of now and then gave up there, you know, that'd be really interesting. If you don't keep pushing through, then I mean, how can you grow? So.
00:41:23
Speaker
You just have to not take it personal and do it again. And then sometimes too, you know, it may not get published in your first pick, but your second pick might pick it up. And usually the second pick where the wedding gets published, they don't know that you weren't their first pick. So I think it's about setting the goals of like where you would like it to get published and maybe work with the wedding team to shoot for that publication. But most publications still also generally like a lot of the same images.
00:41:53
Speaker
So then submit it to your second pick and see if you can get it in there. And I've gone down third and fourth and figure out where it's going to end up, but we do track all of our submissions. We have this spreadsheet so we can keep tracking it all. Cause sometimes it gets lost because we've submitted it so many places, but then eventually I find a place for it to get picked up usually.
00:42:11
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think that's great advice too. I'd be interested in seeing, I'm sure others would too, like a template of that spreadsheet. Yeah, just to stay organized. So I think that would be a great download if you ever decide to include one on your website or whatever.
00:42:27
Speaker
But anyways, I want to thank you for your time and just spending your Friday morning here chatting with me. Like I said at the beginning of this interview, your work is work that we've admired for a long time. I remember when we first got started, we, you know, looking at, following you on Instagram and you shot at least one of our, we have a mutual friend, Caitlin Cruz, whose wedding you shot, you know, and I remember going over those images with Krista. So we've admired your work. What I'm trying to say is we've admired your work for a long time.
00:42:56
Speaker
And so I'm really glad that I got an opportunity to sit down and chat with you. So thanks for joining us. Thank you. And thanks so much for having me. Last thing, where can people follow along? Yeah. So very active on Instagram. That's where I spend a lot of my time some days. And that's at ABBYJIU. And that's probably the main place to find us. Awesome. Well, thank you again. Thank you.
00:43:23
Speaker
Thanks for tuning into the Brands That Book Show. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing and leaving a review in iTunes. For show notes and other resources, head on over to davianchrista.com.
00:43:45
Speaker
you