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22. Tristan Schinke on Montana, American Prairie, and Adventure
0 Playsin 4 days
Tristan Schinke is a first-year student of psychology in Maastricht. He is from the town of Gelnhausen, Germany. He was my partner on a 400-mile hiking and kayaking expedition across Montana’s American Prairie wildlife refuge.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:05
Speaker
This is the Out of the Wild podcast with Ken Ilgunis.
00:00:18
Speaker
So I'm here with Tristan Schinke. You are my 20 year old German nephew. You're from a small city, big town called Gellnhausen near Frankfurt, where we are recording right now.
00:00:33
Speaker
um You are a first year student of psychology in Maastricht. I can never pronounce it, which is in the Netherlands.
Tristan's First Podcast Experience
00:00:44
Speaker
And you are among the first people to go on an expedition across Montana's American Prairie Wildlife Refuge, which we did this past summer.
00:00:56
Speaker
Tristan, hello, welcome to the show. Hey, thank you. So is this your first podcast appearance? That is my first podcast appearance in my whole life. How are you feeling right now?
00:01:09
Speaker
ah it's chill. I'm very comfy here with you. um Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. So I thought we would just kind of go through our journey and talk about some of the highlights and lowlights and maybe be able to share those with
Motivation and Travel Experiences
00:01:27
Speaker
the listeners. But first, maybe we should talk about why you were drawn to something like this. What made you um willing to spend that money and take that time out and fly all the way to Montana from from Germany?
00:01:43
Speaker
So I think first off to spend some time with my amazing uncle, which has some cool stories from his adventures. So I wanted to be part of one of these crazy stories.
00:01:55
Speaker
And I really crave the nature, which I and adventure. I think the adventure what got me the most into that amazing adventure. And you, I mean, you'd done a lot of traveling because you came from um basically Turkey. You spent some time in Turkey. But would you say you had you hadn't done anything like this? Had you had you done kind of like um a longish physical adventure like this?
00:02:25
Speaker
not No, not something like that before. well What made you think you could do it? Because we were going across wild terrain. We weren't really walking trails at all. I wasn't thinking about it at all. I just took my opportunity.
00:02:40
Speaker
okay so' not car So it's best not to think about things sometimes or think about your own limits. Is that how you would put it? Yeah, that's a good phrasing. Okay. Sounds like most young men or at least how most young men should be.
00:02:57
Speaker
um Okay. So you get on a plane. You have to make a couple of connections in America. I think you land in Chicago at first.
00:03:08
Speaker
ah I'm wondering if there's anything interesting there for listeners.
Arrival in America
00:03:14
Speaker
What was your like very first impression of America through an airport?
00:03:20
Speaker
It wasn't the best. so I came there and they immediately put me into an investigation room or whatever, but they wouldn't let me pass that easy. I had a small um what means interview but they asked me a few questions what i'm doing why i have so there's things in my backpack for a travel like this i had to say you're telling them you're going on this big backpacking trip and they're looking at your equipment and they're like
00:03:53
Speaker
Absolutely not. You you did you fly to America to to basically walk across an American desert without any sort of water vessels at all and this pathetically like tiny backpack. and And you're a tall person, so it wouldn't fit your frame well at all. so But anyways, they let you they let you go, right? They didn't search your ass for anything. No, it wasn't okay. Good.
00:04:22
Speaker
Um, and then you make some connections, you get to Billings, you walk to this, ah really crummy motel room called the roadway. And I don't even know if it exists anymore. And that was just a couple months ago.
00:04:38
Speaker
um, And then i I come in a few hours later. That felt like a huge accomplishment for me, just that we both got to America on the same time because we had an early flight the next morning. Oh, yeah. um So it was relief seeing you. And then I remember in the morning, we had just the most disgusting breakfast possible. do you remember that? Oh, yeah, of course. You're serious. we we What was in it? Can you can you describe it So little crumpy donuts.
00:05:10
Speaker
I don't know if you're supposed to call them donuts, but something like that. Some sugary mishli. And yeah, nothing healthy at all. I think they had these waffles with butter and marmalade, something. It was was waffles that you could make on the spot, which I guess was a nice touch. That was the best thing of the breakfast.
00:05:32
Speaker
Yeah, and then we just like smothered it in probably fake butter and fake syrup. And i was just like and you you come from very health and diet-conscious family, so I'm just like, oh, man, what does he think? And we're just going to be ah who knows who knows doing what on the toilet in an hour.
00:05:50
Speaker
um And then like the like this the server, she's like, did you enjoy your breakfast, boys? like As if she made it. like All she did was pour cereal into a giant...
00:06:02
Speaker
jug and get some white bread and shove it into a ah bread box. But okay, so so we do that and then we get on this flight um taking us from Billings, Montana to Glasgow, Montana, which was
Impressions of Montana
00:06:20
Speaker
a long flight. I mean, it was over an hour. What was some of your impressions kind of flying over this part of kind of north central Montana?
00:06:31
Speaker
So first I thought it's very dry, much drier than I thought in the end. But it looks beautiful, especially with the river in it, with the Missouri. um Yeah, and it was such a long flight. I didn't expect it to be that large.
00:06:50
Speaker
I think afterwards you told me on a map that the prairie is going all the way down to Texas or something. I didn't expect that and I really liked it. You're right. Just north central Montana felt like a whole universe.
00:07:05
Speaker
Yeah. You know, like bigger than you could ever explore in a in a lifetime. And it was just an hour of flight um across just a portion of Montana.
00:07:16
Speaker
ah Yeah. What is it like coming from a continent where there's lots of little countries? I mean, you practically live in the Netherlands and you could probably get through the Netherlands and what, like an hour from one side to the other? But you could probably fit like...
00:07:30
Speaker
20 Netherlands in Montana. Did the size of it make an impression on you at all? I think the population size made the biggest effect on my mind. or say it like this. um Yeah, so there were just nobody.
00:07:50
Speaker
We flew over Montana and we couldn't see anything. It was just dry land. and so It was crazy. With our little plane, It was a nice feeling though.
00:08:02
Speaker
Because there was like nothing beneath us except for for grass. and Some of it was farmland, but most of it was just kind of open prairie. probably ahead cattle grazing on it but i don't even i don't even remember i didn't see that much cattle i remember just thinking it kind of had like this very light green kind of beige slightly brown color and i just remember that feeling thirsty just looking at the land and they even said it's the It would have never been greener. It was a wet summer for them.
00:08:38
Speaker
Yeah. And I felt the same way. I was just like, oh my God, this this state, this place, this country is enormous. I think I felt intimidated by what we were about to do. you There was not many water sources out there. And while we weren't going to hike across much of that land, you know it was basically the same character as the land um American Prairie sits in. So we um we get off in Glasgow, Montana, where we do a whole bunch of stuff. We rent a car. We we gather some groceries. We have to kind of put together our food drop-off boxes. We go to this ah kind of outfitting store. And something made an impression on you when we went to this kind of this outdoor store in Glasgow, Montana. What was it?
00:09:28
Speaker
I remember I walked just... normally normally through outdoor store, I didn't expect anything special. And then I just saw the whole wall, like one, like, ah yeah, one fourth of the wall of the total venture store were full of weapons, just guns and knives. It was great. I've never seen a gun like this before anywhere. You only see them the hands of a policeman or something or in films, but
00:10:00
Speaker
not like this real, and then in such a variety. And I could touch them. I could touch all of them. I think I've never touched a weapon before. Yeah. Do you have like a moral judgment about that, or was it more just kind of ah just being surprised or and impressed by something?
00:10:21
Speaker
I was more surprised. i think like, yeah, there are some moral dilemmas, but I didn't think of them when I saw the weapons there. I wrote down, yeah as you know, I i wrote down a a whole bunch of stuff on this journey. And I tried to capture your quote because we were talking to one of the salesmen at this store.
00:10:40
Speaker
And you said something like, Americans, they can't drink until 21, but they can buy guns at 18. That's crazy. oh yeah, that's crazy. Sorry. And which is a, it's a very astute observation.
00:10:55
Speaker
and I remember kind of like looking at you, it was like Tristan, shut up. You're going to get us in trouble with the locals before we even start. But that was, what was good about having you on this trip is that I could kind of see America again through a new pair of eyes, someone who hadn't been there and someone who was going to be shocked by some of that stuff. And, you know, I'm capable of my own kind of reverse culture shock. I can go to like my own country and feel a state of culture shock. But I also remember feeling like
00:11:27
Speaker
it I miss being here. I miss the kind of like the the everyday casual niceness of people. like The women in that shop were just like so sweet and kind to us. yeah yeah I think we saw that a lot early on.
Road Trip Incident
00:11:41
Speaker
Just like people being super friendly. and yeah In Scotland, there's a lot of friendly people. Germany, maybe not as much, but definitely plenty.
00:11:50
Speaker
but There's just nothing like kind of the bottomless... cheeriness of of Americans, which I think is a cultural asset. I think that's actually a really nice thing about our culture.
00:12:03
Speaker
yeah. I remember they were pretty funny at the store. Yeah. And so open in a way, yeah. so um So then we we package up all of our food, which was kind of disgusting because I was like in the shower mixing up our boxes of powdered milk and then like I had a whole bunch of stuff just like sitting on top of the the toilet.
00:12:27
Speaker
um But we rent a car. It's probably the biggest truck you've ever seen. Oh, yeah, for sure. um And what happened within like the first two hours of our of our drive? do you remember?
00:12:40
Speaker
Of course I remember. was crazy. We were driving like, oh, I think 50 miles per hour. More like 70. More like 70, yeah. I have something with 70 mind, but I'm confused with miles and kilometers. But yeah, so we drove there. And at some point, there were nobody. There were no cars at all. And then one car.
00:13:01
Speaker
And it dropped a huge pipe just in front of us. And we had no option but to drive out just over it. I think one of our tires broke down. And yeah, I don't know. Did we have any other problems with the car? No. Well, I mean, they gave us ah the rental car company gave us a new car. Yeah, that was pretty good. But yeah, it was a pipe as big as a driving lane.
00:13:27
Speaker
And we were on kind of like on a hill. So like I couldn't like, I was going 70 miles an hour. I had no choice but just to kind of like run over this giant pipe. It it it it ruined one of the tires.
00:13:39
Speaker
But then I remember the guy got out who was in the truck and I could expect a lot. I would anticipate that a lot of people who are responsible for that, they'd be like, what were you doing? Why didn't you get off? Or, you know, they would not take the blame. But this guy took the blame like right away. He was super apologetic. Yeah.
00:13:59
Speaker
He wasn't worried about like getting sued or anything like that. And he and his his boss came by, fixed the tire. i think they handed us $200 or something.
00:14:10
Speaker
So nice. Yeah, so I think we got a ah really good look at... Montana, like rural Montana culture. and And, you know, sometimes I think when we go to places, ah you know, like a Vienna or a Niagara Falls, New York, we kind of like look at the wonders of nature or just kind of the wonders of civilization.
00:14:34
Speaker
And I don't want to to overlook kind of this wonder of culture. And I think Montana has that. Like people are just super friendly and helpful there. And it's like an amazing cultural asset. And I feel like we can't have this conversation without pointing that out.
00:14:58
Speaker
And you said like you you said things like, Germans are not as open as Americans. and sure not. Yeah. So so they're kind of their openness made an impression on you.
00:15:10
Speaker
Oh, yeah. And the way they helped us and they craved to help us. They were so so desperate to give us any help. And that's something you don't see in Germany that much from random people.
00:15:24
Speaker
I remember ah last week I went to bakery. and the lady in the bakery, she was so grumpy. And I remember in Montana, she would have, i don't know, given us a Tifa for you or something.
00:15:40
Speaker
Absolutely, yeah. People were trying to give us free. You're right. They were like dying to help us. They would have been upset if they if they couldn't help someone. And what just just what an amazing cultural thing is. And I don't know what why that is. I think it's because Montana...
00:15:56
Speaker
is just kind of like so kind of insulated and protected from so much of terrible stuff. You know, like Russia has never invaded Montana. Like when you, I think when you think of like Eastern Europe and kind of like that fearful, paranoid, unfriendly attitude, I think that comes from,
00:16:19
Speaker
hundreds of years of just ah terrible history, like countries invading you and or neighbors having to spy on neighbors. And when you don't have any of that kind of like high level national stress,
00:16:36
Speaker
um I think it allows you just to be like a lot more at ease and comfortable with with strangers and you have none of that suspicion. like Why would anybody in Montana need to be suspicious of everyone when there's just like ah you know a few farms in the middle of a field? i don't know if I'm making any sense here, but does that register with you at all? Yeah, of course.
Hiking Challenges
00:17:00
Speaker
So we made our food drops and then we started hiking um out of Glasgow, Montana. I remember it's like, this is way too hot.
00:17:11
Speaker
Like we started at like two o'clock in the afternoon and within the first hour, I think our feet were just already mess. That's crazy. Yeah. Backpack was so heavy.
00:17:24
Speaker
the but Yeah, we were carrying so much water. You had two gallon jugs of water and i'm and they were all like already leaking at the end of the first day. Never carry like a gallon jug for water because yeah it's just not a secure way to bring your water.
00:17:45
Speaker
They were swinging with every step against my backpack. They were just clanging against your body. Yeah. yeah And like when you sit, when you take your pack off, when you set it down, it's just going to damage those jugs. A lot of people came over and at this point we're walking on roads over like federal Bureau of land management land and the the gravel roads.
00:18:09
Speaker
in the middle of nowhere. I mean, just nothing but like grass and wheat and, you know, nothing as far as the eye can see. But a number of people pulled over, just kind of mesmerized by us and super curious about what we were doing. Do any of those conversations stand out in your your memory? Yeah, I remember.
00:18:31
Speaker
think the second guy we met, he was warning us of, everything possible that could happen. Like rattlesnakes, tornadoes, even, I don't know. Storms.
00:18:47
Speaker
There's no water out here. it's it's It gets so hot. I forget that guy's name. um But, I mean, and, you know, we'd been in Montana for a couple days and we told our ah about our trip to a couple people and They were all friendly, but they would go through this routine of being like, there's cougars out there. you know There's wolves coming into the into the area. And it's just like, what do you want us to say? like I guess we're just going home. the week We didn't think this through, Tristan. like We better just stop and go home. Is that like is that what they wanted us to hear?
00:19:25
Speaker
um I don't know what it is. i think it was just like a little bit trying to be helpful, a little bit being like, I'm a hard man because I live here. I live through this shit every day. um And ah yeah, so I think those are the two factors behind that.
00:19:45
Speaker
Also, maybe a little bit of jealousy. Jealousy? like If they think they couldn't do it, they don't want us to be able to do it. That's an interesting insight. No, I think that's definitely part of it as well.
00:19:58
Speaker
ah Those were all positive social interactions, but it was ah it was a common one. And guess what? We did it, everybody. oh We almost did it. We'll get to that in a second.
00:20:09
Speaker
um We walked alongside each other or paddled alongside each other for 20 days. a lot of it was in silence, but there was also a lot where we were ah you know, right next to each other, talking about all manner of things.
00:20:29
Speaker
We went through your whole ex-relationship. We went through that whole saga. um I think I told you about every romantic relationship.
00:20:41
Speaker
moment I've ever had in my life. was so desperate for all your stories. And honestly, it felt like therapy for me because could kind of relive, you know, certain period I had in my life with a girlfriend and kind of maybe what the shortcomings were or what went wrong or what was wonderful about them or what why it didn't work out or, or anything like that. So I found it helpful to process all of that. And now love life was definitely on your mind. I mean, you were moving to this Dutch, Dutch town and you're going to be like the only man surrounded by all these beautiful, tall Dutch women.
00:21:33
Speaker
um I don't know, do you think you learned anything from my my sagas, my experiences? Oh yeah, far too much to say it one sentence.
00:21:45
Speaker
But I think to be um and interested in people, I think, what was the word you used? to it Just to be as interested as possible and to We're talking about like ah almost like a dating tactic right Yeah, yeah. But but it's not ah a tactic makes it sound cheap. But it's it's ah it's a way of connecting with anybody. Let's put it like that. And you're talking about just being really curious about that person. Yeah, was looking for that one.
00:22:21
Speaker
um Okay. So it sounds like you probably used that tactic a few times. You probably already had that in your toolbox. Yeah, I think so. Before we met. um One of the most interesting interesting things I learned about you was your relationship with the emotion of anger.
00:22:39
Speaker
um Because as I understood it, it's ah it's it's an emotion that doesn't come to you often, if if ever at all. I did see anger whenever like the mosquitoes were going after oh yeah like oh you. You were genuinely pissed off. I let them eat me alive. like my My feet were in such pain. I was just like, i don't even care. i didn't I don't even feel this mosquito pain. But you were pissed off with that. How do you explain like not having anger as like one of your primary or even secondary emotions?
00:23:14
Speaker
I don't have the comparison in myself, so it's hard to say. But it feels good to be always kind of chill in a way in that manner.
00:23:25
Speaker
And yeah, but sometimes the mosquitoes or something will get the anger out of me. But usually think it's good that way.
00:23:37
Speaker
i might feel it somewhere hidden where I don't notice it, but it comes in another form or something. But I'm probably not smart enough to detect it. So the last thing you said, it it sounded like there is some anger there. Maybe it it doesn't get expressed. Maybe it comes out in other ways in anger. Do I detect like you wanting a bit of kind of just normal anger? or are you kind of happy that you're, as you say, this chill guy?
00:24:14
Speaker
i think I'm i'm happy too. But sometimes I feel like it's a little too much like people pleasing when I'm too less angry, kind of When i that's go um but I let people do anything, kind of, and I'm just chill. It's not the best. Sometimes you kind of need a little anger to fight for yourself.
00:24:41
Speaker
Yeah. And yeah, and we definitely talked about that. And we saw a very interesting model of kind of healthy masculinity in um John Dunbar. Oh, yeah. the ca co Perfect man. Yeah, he is kind of like the perfect man. um So I guess we should just kind of get into that. Like we, um well, hold on, we'll get to that in a second. So Eventually we ah we kept walking, were struggling to find water, the water tasted gross. Maybe it was just because of our water drops. We haven't really figured out if it was the water drops, water purification drops or the actual water.
00:25:23
Speaker
But um one of our lowest of low moments was when we were looking for water. We'd we'd walk the full day. And we got to this cow pond, which we saw on the map. And it was like the last one for miles.
00:25:41
Speaker
And we're we're blocked from getting to this pond because there's just these black Angus cows surrounding And we'd learned about cows over the past couple of days, but these ones weren't leaving. And there was a couple like bulls, which looked like African water buffaloes. They were just enormous. And they were like kicking up dirt. And their moans were just like, they made you like your whole like digestive system vibrate. we get to this...
00:26:14
Speaker
so we we get to this pond, but then we see them kind of walking towards us. And then we drop our gear. oh yeah We drop our gear kind of, I don't say we run away, but we definitely did like a fast walk away and just set up your tent halfway in desert. Like it was like, we're surrounded by cactus. We're basically like sitting on top of a cactus. I remember I peeled one to eat it to get some water. You tried to like get the water out of a cactus and I was just thinking like you're going to get like half of a drop of water out of that thing. Yeah, I didn't get more. um so That was kind of like one of our lowest lows. and I remember we're desperate for water right now. and I went to like this little pond next to kind of like a pipe near like a gravel road and it was just like
00:27:07
Speaker
diarrhea
Meeting the Ranchers
00:27:08
Speaker
water. It was just like completely brown. And I remember as I was um filling my jugs with this brown water, I was having eye contact with a frog inside the pond. And i was just like, there's this water is definitely not clean.
00:27:26
Speaker
But um so then something happened. ah Some ranchers, an elderly ranch couple, they saw us on the side of the road. And they basically said, hey come on to our place.
00:27:40
Speaker
ah can you Can you describe um ah this this elderly w ranch couple's place at all? The place? Oh, wow. Yeah. It was crazy. They had no electricity.
00:27:55
Speaker
like They had some, but they would only like it was something special that they would turn on the light bulbs for us. and to clean to get clean water, they would take it will take so much time. Yeah, I think the women disappeared for half an hour to fill up, don't know, like 12 liters of water or something, which is crazy.
00:28:19
Speaker
And they had pictures all over the world. Yeah, it was crazy. But they had the best lemonade I've ever tried. That's right. They had lemonade and I think they had a pan of like lemon bars or something. And I remember watching you just like wolfing wolfing those down. um And it was kind of like one of those conversations where just like, I kind of hope they let us stay here. and I kind of hope... they feed us because it was just complete relaxation, just kind of sitting in their chairs and talking to them. And eventually, you know, they would feed us this amazing meal of like their own beef and some of their own like homegrown the vegetables.
00:29:03
Speaker
there was also, you know, like moments of curiosity when we were there, like at one point, the guy, the man, they were both like 80 years old. And he kind of like looked at you and pointed at your chair like, the man died in that chair. yeah You remember that? Oh, yeah. Oh, thank you. Yeah.
00:29:24
Speaker
It was crazy. It's kind of like saying like, this is your curse. Like, yeah, you're cursed for the rest of this trip. Yeah. um I didn't have to know that. Yeah, you didn't have to know that.
00:29:36
Speaker
They were... it's it's it's strange talking about because you don't want to be at all like critical or judgmental in any ways when someone's ah helping you and like i think we're both extremely grateful for this generosity but we did have a conversation about american prairie the refuge and you could tell they had a pretty strong emotional reaction oh yeah to it like they were very against it and they hated it Yeah, they really hated it. and like The woman, like one of the first things she said is, like they're ruining biodiversity, which was like, what? like I thought like that's that's American Prairie's whole point was to improve biodi diversity but biodiversity.
00:30:20
Speaker
But I think she had in her mind that like the best sort of land stewardship for this country was was cattle ranching.
00:30:31
Speaker
was like, get your cows out there. You don't let wolves in. You don't let bears in. You don't let prairie dogs' colonies expand. You don't let the cougar population to get...
00:30:44
Speaker
too high. so So, yeah, I think it was just kind of like a very strong emotional reaction. But you could also, you know, like American Prairie was buying land off of their neighbors willingly. Their neighbors were selling their land. So I think they were, if I was them, I could kind of be like, I'm losing my neighbors. This land is changing before my eyes. So I could kind of sympathize with them on on that level did you come to any kind of thinking about this at all uh i see them it says see that kind of often with elderly people that they have like very strong opportunities and they don't want to change anything and i i think they had the problem of changing for everything also they wouldn't let go of the chair like
00:31:43
Speaker
Someone died on a chair and they still have it Or the pictures, the wall was full of pictures they couldn't let go of. They can't let go of every anything. They weren't happy in their situation or not too happy, but they couldn't move kind because they couldn't let go.
00:32:03
Speaker
and That's what I got out of it. So if if someone dies in a chair, definitely get rid of the chair. is that that your advice to everybody? That's my advice. Yeah. No. Yeah. No, you're right. I wouldn't want to like sleep in someone's deathbed or anything.
00:32:19
Speaker
um But um yeah, remember we I remember we camped kind of on their driveway and The lady was like, ah she wished us a really good night. We said good night. and She's like, ah you know a cow might get curious and put a foot through the tent wall. it' just like I couldn't sleep for the rest of the night after that.
00:32:42
Speaker
So it was kind of like a weird mix of like super kindness, but also I might get stomped on by a cow tonight. um So anyways, we um we kept walking and it was ah that's when it became like 100 degree days.
00:33:03
Speaker
ah So we started at like two o'clock in the morning um that morning. And I think by like 11 o'clock a.m., it was roasting. I remember we would talk and sometimes I'd be like, Tristan, I can't talk anymore yeah because like any more use of brain energy and I'm just not going to be able to like my brain is going to like die. so sometimes we would have to walk in silence. And then I remember we got to these two guys.
00:33:32
Speaker
and um this woman and ah yeah, we spent some time with them. um So yeah, we just kind of called out, hello, hello, hello. And finally someone came out from beneath their home because they were like putting wheels on their home to to take their home somewhere else.
00:33:51
Speaker
And i was I was struck that you kind of controlled the conversation there. I think I was just so wiped out by the heat. And normally I would be like the diplomat.
Debating Travel Choices
00:34:00
Speaker
I'd do all the talking. Yeah.
00:34:01
Speaker
um so yeah how how did you handle that uh what were you thinking when you kind of uh choreographed the conversation i was kind of curious about them but also i really want to stay there in the shades and i felt like as soon as we don't talk anymore they would send us away and um yeah but i was curious because i had such a different lifestyle they would have a moving house. I've never seen something that before Montana.
00:34:35
Speaker
And yeah, what I found the most interesting is the way they talk about hunting. The one guy showed me a video how he was chasing a cougar. They call it treeing a cougar. When they get up to go up a tree and then they can easily shoot it.
00:34:56
Speaker
Yeah, it was so easy. in that The cougar had nothing to combat them. And there were so many dogs barking at it. And it was so sad. Why would you kill a cougar if you have the chance to? it like It's such a majestic, giant cat or whatever.
00:35:14
Speaker
I mean, you've gone hunting yourself, but are you saying the way they hunted or the way they talked about it was... Both. yeah Not so morally, I bet.
00:35:26
Speaker
Yeah, but you just were like, good job. Yeah, oh wow, cool guy. How did you manage? It's the same sort of thing where it's just like you're connecting with these people on one level. like you're It's convivial, we're laughing, we're smiling, we're we got Dr. Peppers and licorice out and bags of chips and they seem to be really happy to be taking a break from their work. oh But on the other hand, there's like moments of that where it's just like, we're very different people and have different values. And you kind of just got to...
00:36:03
Speaker
um keep it going and keep it pleasant. um And i remember it was like a movie scene where we were leaned against their trailer home and the sun was moving across the sky. And like by the minute, our shade was diminishing and just kept reducing and reducing. And then like the sun was like over our toes, then our ankles and then over our knees. It felt like we were being like,
00:36:31
Speaker
roasted alive and i'd say this was one of the big debates we had um where we had to decide um because we were like right on the edge of being behind schedule and we didn't have any like um extra room we couldn't take an extra day our flights were booked we had to get home by a certain day this is like day four by the way And, you know, I wanted us to be the first people to do a non-motorized transect across American Prairie. I didn't want to just drive across American Prairie. wanted to be like the first person to to hike and kayak across it.
00:37:09
Speaker
And we had the option of one um hiking the next 10 miles or so in complete ah heat, like 100 degree heat. And my brain was already melting.
00:37:23
Speaker
Or we could have like started at 10 o'clock at night and did a ah night hike. But then like you know we wouldn't have been able to get get off to like an early start the next day.
00:37:34
Speaker
um Or ah they were offering us a ride. One of their wives was offering us a ride to take um take us about 10 miles to Enrico Science Center in American Prairieland.
00:37:46
Speaker
um I remember my position was, well, one, I was i was conflicted within myself, but like I wanted to to be the first to like do like an American Prairie themed journey. You didn't seem as determined to do it in a a non-motorized way. Do I have that right?
00:38:08
Speaker
Yeah. yeah Yeah. i feel like Okay, then it's just, it's the 190 mile walk. That's Still so much and so I think a three person less or something.
00:38:22
Speaker
I didn't feel like that would change anything for me. But I didn't have that strong wish to do it only walking.
00:38:33
Speaker
nothing So... I mean, does it make, is it is it strange for you to listen to me kind of ah beat myself up about wanting to kind of do it in a non-motorized way? Or do you kind of get it at the same time?
00:38:50
Speaker
I kind of get it. you You said it to yourself. if You want to do it. You want to accomplish it. And to say you would take the ride would kind of demolish all your wishes and everything. And it's so short. Yeah, like when you have a goal, like I think it's really important to kind of treat that goal almost like sacredly. you know i want to do this, I'm going to do it. Because you know if you just start like cutting corners and you know making it easier for yourself, you're always going to do that. But I think the reason why i eventually kind of... And I didn't like i didn't give in to you. like I think I recognized that taking a ride was...
00:39:34
Speaker
almost the only option at that point. um So that kind of helped me kind of get over it. It's just like we wouldn't have been able to so and to to finish this trip in time um if we didn't take that favor.
Staying at Enrico Science Center
00:39:50
Speaker
So yes, then we got driven to um this kind of science center guest house that American Prairie, which again is a wildlife refuge in the making. offered us for the night and it was luxurious right oh wow yeah it was built for millionaires yeah and i don't know exactly what they do at enrico science center but i can imagine one of the functions of this place is the kind of wine and dine um funders donors who are donating to american prairie so they get to kind of
00:40:27
Speaker
be out in the middle of nowhere, look out these amazing windows, step out on the porch, look at some prairie dogs out there. um But also like ah sleep in an air-conditioned room yeah as well and some good showers i remember enrico was like for us in that state and i know we were only walking for like four or five days at that point but our feet were a wreck it was so hot outside it felt like walking into a paradise is that how you oh yeah remember yeah oh yeah paradise that suits yeah
00:41:04
Speaker
Our feet were just completely disgusting at that point. And i remember, you know, we only, you know, we spent, I guess, two nights there. So we spent that night there and then we took a whole day off um and got to see Buffalo. I remember Bo, who was kind of like a wildlife person,
00:41:25
Speaker
biologist or something for American Prairie. he He kind of took us on a little trip around and he took us to this cliffside where Native Americans would leave would lead a bison herd off the cliff. So like the women and kids could kind of like kill these paralyzed bison at the bottom.
00:41:48
Speaker
And Bo was telling telling us that a young man would have to kind of like dress in a buffalo robe and like encourage the buffalo to kind of go in this direction and leap off this cliff. Do you think you could have...
00:42:03
Speaker
done that? If I said, Tristan, I'm one of the ah council leaders of this tribe, would you be willing to kind of jump off this cliff and lead 200 bison over it? Would you do it?
00:42:18
Speaker
I would try, i think, but i I wouldn't be able to manage. I think they have to be super humans, these indigenous people. like How would you chase them? like They're so fast. and I mean, you couldn't just do it for 500 meters or something or then 500 yards you would have to chase them for kilometers and miles and then they would say they they would hide and jump into some holes where the bison could run over them like wow wow and like i would be so fearful to jump in there and then let a bison run over me i think i
00:42:58
Speaker
I would have been like 18 years old and be like, let's do it. I think that's a huge difference between like 18 year old me and 42 year old me. Like there are definitely like risks I would have taken that. But you 20, you're saying you wouldn't have done it.
00:43:14
Speaker
I would have tried to, but I wouldn't have managed probably. Maybe with a little training. So um we would go back to Enrico. Part of me wants to just like live at Enrico because I always remember like, oh yeah dude, I don't want to leave here. I just want to like find like rummage through their cupboards, make some meals.
00:43:36
Speaker
Watch some. They had this enormous like 85 inch screen TV, watch a whole bunch of TV. Just like laying on a couch and like ah thumbing on my phone felt like like the the pleasure beyond beyond
Emotional Reflection and Growth
00:43:49
Speaker
pleasures. Getting fed. Yeah. um and we watched dances with wolves what was what were your impressions of dances with wolves wow the feeling to watch this movie just just in the prairie was so amazing i remember afterwards we went on the porch we're looking after the birds flying and i could imagine john dunbar just riding it across me and yeah it was so beautiful and
00:44:16
Speaker
so stunning It was so so special for me um because there was a whole bunch of things happening. like i have I'm from like western New York, it's not Prairie State at all, but I do have like a deep affection for the grasslands. i I love the prairie. and that movie You could tell the people who made that movie love the prairie. There's a deep reverence for it. And there's a deep reverence for the Native American um cultures within that movie.
00:44:48
Speaker
And John Dunbar, like he just, ah I don't want to use words like masculinity. He was just like a wonderful person. you know like he he was kind of He was not flamboyant, he was kind of stoic, but also sensitive and curious and open-minded, but yet fierce.
00:45:08
Speaker
He was you know a great husband and a he had these friends. um And I remember towards the end when ah one of his Native American friends like gets on a cliffside And John Dunbar is going away with his wife.
00:45:27
Speaker
And this Native man native American friend like yells out, like John Dunbar, you will always be my friend. you remember that? i I was like deeply like sobbing inside here.
00:45:42
Speaker
And I remember, just like, I got to get out of this. I like i didn't run out, but I like casually... like walked out to that porch, which is like this amazing porch. It's like ah like ah ah like you have like a balcony. There's like these swallows, these like these birds kind of building mud nests. And you can hear these prairie dogs kind of hopping in and out of holes. And there's like a creek that you could see. it's just like a beautiful thing. And i I, you may not know this, but I just broke out in tears at that point. I like broke out in like deep sobs because just the whole thing, it wasn't just the movie. It was like,
00:46:18
Speaker
wow, like we're getting to kind of like live this dream and see this part of the world that so few people get to see. So I asked you for confessions, secrets, or regrets. So that's my that's my big confession, is I broke out in tears after Dances with Wolves. So John Dunbar, he became like a theme. like Whenever we got to like a fork in the road, would be like, what would John Dunbar...
00:46:47
Speaker
do Or even like when I was like taking a picture of you, I'd be like... How would John Dunbar look? If someone's taking a picture of John Dunbar, what what facial expression would he have on? i remember that. Because you would always give like a big smiles charming smile or something. i was like, give me a John Dunbar look here. And I remember thinking, like it wasn't just about being like more handsome or anything, but it did look like...
00:47:15
Speaker
Serious. More full of like like a rich character, i think. like when When you kind of just like let your emotions um be on your face, what they are in that moment, rather than going to like a default smile.
00:47:33
Speaker
and Only laugh when it's actually funny. We talked about that. Only laugh when it's when it's funny. Don't do kind of like that you know like a helpful little giggle or whatever.
00:47:45
Speaker
When you're angry, be angry. you know like Just to kind of not default to kind of what's socially expected of you. He wasn't a people pleaser at all.
00:47:57
Speaker
He was not a people pleaser. ah Do you think that that's something that your' um that you've gotten over or that you're in the process of getting over or are you coming to terms with your your people pleasing? What's your relation to it now after this trip?
00:48:15
Speaker
I think the trip really helped me to get kind of over it. it was never too bad, but it was something I really wanted to work on. And I think now I don't have trouble with it anymore.
00:48:30
Speaker
yeah i think our talks were very helpful for it. Watch the film, maybe talk about the film. John Dunbar helped me. I need like a picture of John Dunbar on my wall just to remind me toya to aspire to be the best that I
Podcast Conclusion
00:48:47
Speaker
can be. Do you feel changed in the do you feel changed in any way because of our journey Hey folks, that's the end of the paid version of the podcast. First, apologies about the poor audio in this. Tristan and I were recording in the same room and there was just some echo that our mics were picking up. I'm still new at this. I'll try to figure that out.
00:49:13
Speaker
High quality audio is important to me. So, so yeah, sorry about that. um But there's another 30 minutes or so left on this podcast in which I asked Tristan a bunch of questions. We kind of go through a rapid fire round, how he's changed. We live out some more of our experience. I ask him if there's a generational difference between us um and some other goodies. So if you want to become a paid subscriber, go on over to my sub stack out of the wild and you'll have access to all full podcasts, all full essays and all that stuff. It means a lot to me.
00:49:51
Speaker
Thanks and see you next time. Bye bye.
00:50:14
Speaker
This was the Out of the Wild podcast. Original music by Duncan Barrett. For more episodes, subscribe to my Substack.