Paul Robbins [https://nelson.wisc.edu/staff/robbins-paul/] is America’s foremost authority on the lawn. He is the author of Lawn People: How Grasses, Weeds, and Chemicals Make Us Who We Are [https://www.amazon.com/Lawn-People-Grasses-Weeds-Chemicals/dp/159213579X/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1O5UO5RK78AJA&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.hEP1Rz-xQGo4mx8Tp67g-QfOpaPFbWQLW3A0vKGt-0z9diQs9WwTZv2JqR_jYpbhY1Jmd6Tx4iEQo7xOhipnhXPSq2HUGUs-0jC7xFt2t6hcwk7SQA11ZYSNquvzaVB-iwoPAxbA00mqkbcWTeLuGt9uAHXyJG8I6o6pvKR_Bvcc6aWVF4-EnuwJ0yM38qkY7w3zoa1QxElnlW7qAYeRcmMcqA9zx1vLga06-C9bBlw.Dq_94yf_bpF20PIPKGh5l9EC1gKUDufSC5IG5DT6OS0&dib_tag=se&keywords=lawn+people+book&qid=1754425011&sprefix=lawn+people%2Caps%2C406&sr=8-1]. He is the dean of the Nelson Institute for Environmental Studies at the University of Wisconsin–Madison.

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We discuss:

 * Is Paul the Cary Elwes of academia?

 * Julie Guthman’s work on pathogens, chemicals, and strawberries [https://www.ucpress.edu/books/wilted/paper].
 * What is a “lawn person?”
 * Is the American lawn care industry taking advantage of us (and taking our money) because of our lawn guilt?
 * Are suburban American lawns… communal?
 * Penn Jillette (of “Penn and Teller”) and his show “Bullshit!” Here’s the episode about the lawn [https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1502174/].
 * Should environmentalists and libertarians unite to regain control over their lawns?
 * Should “weed” be the next problematic word that becomes outmoded and ostracized (such as “retarded”) from the English language?
 * “A weed is a plant whose virtues have not yet been discovered.” — Ralph Waldo Emerson
 * Are we on the verge of reinventing the American lawn? Or will it be more of the same?
 * Redddot Phase 1 [https://nsf.elsevierpure.com/en/projects/redddot-phase-1-planning-grant-novel-cellular-technologies-in-eco]
 * What would it take to build a biobank for all living animals?

Pine Marten. Saving animals—easier when they’re cute?
 * Paul’s article on biobanks and indigenous data sovereignty. [https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/conservation-science/articles/10.3389/fcosc.2023.1099562/full]
 * Is the American chestnut tree resurrection… dead?
 * Paul’s co-written essay on John Muir’s Tormented Landscape [https://thebreakthrough.org/journal/no-14-summer-2021/john-muir-tormented-landscape].
 * Is our urge to conserve nature tied to North Americans’ complicity in removing Native Americans?
 * I ask Paul, should I think of myself as a “settler?”
 * I talk about rolling my eyes at land acknowledgements and Paul makes the case for them.

Paul Robbins on the American Lawn, Biobanks, and John Muir

Daniel Oppenheimer [https://www.danieloppenheimer.com/about] is a cultural and political critic, the author of Exit Right: The People Who Left the Left and Reshaped the American Century [https://www.danieloppenheimer.com/the-book], and the host of the Eminent Americans Podcast [https://danieloppenheimer.substack.com/].

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We discuss…

 * Dan’s terrific NYT Magazine story, “How I Learned That The Problem In My Marriage Was Me [https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/04/magazine/therapy-marriage-couples-counseling.html?unlocked_article_code=1.YU8.5MDi.wd0JluCse1lh&smid=url-share].”
 * Why some people expose themselves in front of a therapy audience (exhibitionism + desperation + wanting a really good therapist?)
 * How epiphanies are a dime a dozen
 * Terry Real’s I Don’t Want to Talk About It [https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/I-Dont-Want-to-Talk-About-It/Terrence-Real/9780684835396]
 * On raging near golf courses and roundabouts
 * David Eddings, fantasy writer [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Eddings]
 * A Mitt Romney favorite and a good sci-fi book (not so much a good movie):
 * The gravitational pull of a good series. Dan’s latest obsession—Dungeon Crawler Carl.

 * Peggy McIntosh’s “White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack [https://www.nationalseedproject.org/key-seed-texts/white-privilege-unpacking-the-invisible-knapsack]”
 * Patriarchy—a term suffering from “concept creep?”
 * How the Left needs to get comfortable with asserting power again
 * It’s Time to Fight Dirty [https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/564969/its-time-to-fight-dirty-by-david-faris/]: How Democrats Can Build a Lasting Majority in American Politics
 * I have a dream: a left wing made up of normies. But also, get me some of that rhydonium:
 * The “Are Monkeys Inherently Racist? [https://www.blockedandreported.org/p/episode-39-are-monkeys-inherently-dcc]” episode that made me unfollow the Blocked and Reported podcast.
 * What needs to be said to a lot of podcasters beating dead horses and triggering our outrage:
 * Dan talking about the legacy of Rush Limbaugh [https://www.persuasion.community/p/what-rush-hath-wrought]
 * Dan chatting [https://danieloppenheimer.substack.com/p/our-sincerest-regrets] withBlake Smith.

13. Daniel Oppenheimer on Couples Therapy, Terry Real, and the Dream of a Normie Left

Adam Weymouth [https://www.adamweymouth.com/] is a British author of Kings of the Yukon [https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/295832/kings-of-the-yukon-by-weymouth-adam/9780141983790], about his 2,000-mile voyage down the Yukon River, and, now, Lone Wolf: Walking the Faultlines of Europe [https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/448173/lone-wolf-by-weymouth-adam/9781529151947], about his 1,000-mile hike following the path of a wolf. We discuss…

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 * Are we better humans when we’re on journeys?
 * Why have there been so many more deaths (wolves killing humans) in Europe than in North America?
 * Ken has a bone to pick with Disney: Why would a nature-loving production company depict wolves in such a retrograde way—in 2013?

 * Are old tales of rabid wolves the reason why Europeans are so anxious about the wolf?
 * What can farmers do to protect their herd/flock from wolves?
 * Should wolves be re-introduced to the U.K.?
 * Can a wolf swim the English Channel?
 * What is a lone wolf looking for?

Some of Adam’s favorite travel books:

 * Adam recommends The Rheingan Sisters:

Adam Weymouth on the Return of the Wolf

Sam Graham-Felsen [https://www.samgf.com/] is the historian at the Philip Roth Personal Library in Newark, New Jersey, and he’s the author of the acclaimed coming-of-age novel Green [https://www.samgf.com/green-a-novel-1]. We discuss…

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 * Sam’s article with New York Times Magazine, “Where Have All My Deep Male Friendships Gone?” [https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/25/magazine/male-friendships.html?unlocked_article_code=1.LE8.BfjA.2g5l8VbE6CFZ&smid=url-share]
 * Sam’s favorite boyhood comedy, Weird Al’s, UHF.
 * When did American men stop being physically close? And do we need to go back to this:
 * Should we take our best friends to our honeymoons?
 * Was Albert Kinsey’s studies of sexuality, which popularized the prevalence of homosexuality, responsible for causing homohysteria [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homohysteria]?
 * Is Dan Campbell making it okay for guys to display emotion, or is his “high masculinity” the only thing that gives him license to be vulnerable?
 * Examples of healthy masculinity:
 * David Goggins on JRE:
 * Does the manosphere need to adopt friendship, community, and rootedness as its next message of wellness?
 * Sam and I discuss our mid-life career pivots into typically female-dominated career fields.
 * Sam explores the question, What makes a man?
 * Sam recommends:

11. Sam Graham-Felsen on the Fading Male Friendship

Bill Deresiewicz is a writer and cultural critic. He’s written popular essays such as “Solitude and Leadership [https://theamericanscholar.org/solitude-and-leadership/],” and books including Excellent Sheep [https://billderesiewicz.com/books/excellent-sheep/], a critique of elite education; the The Death of the Artist [https://billderesiewicz.com/books/the-death-of-the-artist/], which explores the precarious lives of creative workers; and The End of Solitude [https://billderesiewicz.com/]—a collection of Bill’s greatest essays. We discuss…

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 * Is Portland still the Portland of Portlandia?
 * Is Boston the angriest town in the U.S.?
 * Bill’s essay in Salmagundi about the “Not Left.” [https://salmagundi.skidmore.edu/articles/1242-post-election]
 * Is Bernie Sanders’s movement over or dormant? Are the woke responsible for knee-capping Sanders’s movement?
 * Who’s more prudish—the left or the right?
 * Bill’s essay, “Chuck Your Privilege. [https://www.persuasion.community/p/chuck-your-privilege]”
 * Ken imagines a “Cambrian Explosion” on the left with hypothetical political species such as Neo-Guildists, “ProPats” (Progressive Patriarchs), and Neo-Hedonists (my enlightened sensuality movement). Perhaps I’ll do a whole post on these ideas someday…
 * Is Ezra Klein’s Abundanomics Movement… sexy?
 * Ezra Klein’s interview with Democratic rep. Marie Gluesenkamp Perez [https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/06/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-marie-gluesenkamp-perez.html] (my patron saint for the Neo-Guildists)
 * Is 2025 TV “mid?”
 * Ken’s post about when did prestige TV peak [https://kenilgunas.substack.com/p/what-year-did-prestige-tv-peak]?
 * Bill’s essay about incels [https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/unfuckable-hate-nerds-william-deresiewicz].
 * Bill’s favorite Substack Writers:Blake Smith [https://blakeesmith.substack.com/]Sam Kahn’s Republic of Letters [https://substack.com/@therepublicofletters]Justin Smith-Ruiu’s The Hinternet [https://www.the-hinternet.com/]Eminent Americans Podcast  [https://danieloppenheimer.substack.com/podcast]

Bill’s website [https://billderesiewicz.com/]

Bill’s substack [https://deresiewicz.substack.com/]

Bill Deresiewicz on Eros, Incels, the Not Left, and the Death of the Artist

Mike Finkel [https://www.michaelfinkel.com/] is the author of True Story [https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/358104/true-story-by-finkel-michael/9780099464570], about a killer who stole Mike’s identity. His second book The Stranger in the Woods [https://www.simonandschuster.co.uk/books/The-Stranger-in-the-Woods/Michael-Finkel/9781471151989] is about a hermit in Maine who didn’t talk to anyone for decades. And The Art Thief [https://www.simonandschuster.co.uk/books/The-Art-Thief/Michael-Finkel/9781471186264], about history’s greatest art thief. We talk about:

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 * Why are we, as a culture, so drawn to true crime?
 * I ask Mike why women are attracted to criminals. He gives an impressive answer.
 * What’s better: soaking in a bath tub or sitting on a toilet to avoid family?
 * Mike’s early influences: I Robot, Ray Bradbury, Arthur Clarke, and The Catcher in the Rye.
 * Mike’s stylistic principles: make it read as if you “dashed it out”; eliminate show-offy words; apply the “bar room test.”
 * Ken tries out some of his psychotherapy skills on Mike.
 * Mike gives me advice on how to make a connection with criminals.
 * Is there going to be a The Stranger in the Woods movie? And who should play Christopher Knight? (I make the case for Eric Lange from Escape from Dannemora.)
 * On how ending a book with an ellipsis is okay.
 * Ken gives the North Pond Hermit an open invitation to come on the podcast.
 * What kind of kleptomaniac would you be? Mike:

 * If Mike was incarcerated, would he ever let someone else write his story?
 * Ken shares his jail fantasies (not what you think).
 * Mike expresses admiration for David Grann [https://www.davidgrann.com/books/].

#9 Michael Finkel on True Crime, the art of acquainting, and kleptomania

Tim Kreider [https://substack.com/profile/4863114-tim-kreider] is a cartoonist and essayist. If you’re not familiar with Tim’s work, sign up for his Substack (“The Loaf [https://timkreider.substack.com/]”), and read his two books of essays, “We Learn Nothing [https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/We-Learn-Nothing/Tim-Kreider/9781439198711]” & “I Wrote this Book Because I Love You [https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/I-Wrote-This-Book-Because-I-Love-You/Tim-Kreider/9781476739014].” Tim’s writing is a deadly combination of elegant & original prose, wicked humor, and bare-it-all honesty. He’s my favorite writer. We discuss…

 * With Cormac McCarthy gone, who’s the best living writer of the English language?
 * How a young Tim enjoyed the works of YA / sci-fi writer John Christopher (real name: Christopher Samuel Youd). Books mentioned: The World in Winter and The Death of Grass and the Tripod Trilogy, plus…

 * Moby Dick is strange. The best standalone chapter: “The Line.”
 * It’s possible neither Tim nor I know what “postmodernism” is.

Montaigne’s “everyman” tower
 * Is “DEI” the new way of using the “N word?”
 * One of Tim’s first big breaks—commentary on Eyes Wide Shut in Film Quarterly [https://timkreider.com/introducing-sociology/].
 * James Salter [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Salter], a writer’s writer.

Hedy Lamarr
 * Revisiting a few of Tim’s essays and characters — Tim’s peak-oil obsessed friend and the state of Tim’s busyness.
 * Is writing a “nice thing to do?”
 * On how Tim is stylishly homeless.
 * Melville House’s FUTURES Series [https://uk.bookshop.org/lists/the-futures-series].
 * Tech utopians: “people who don’t like being people.”
 * Kim Stanley Robinson’s Three Californias Trilogy [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Californias_Trilogy].
 * Tim’s recommendations:

Tim Kreider on writing, W. Bush v. Trump, and the future of the future

Dan Flores is a historian and writer who writes about the natural and cultural history of North America. His books—including Coyote America, American Serengeti, and Wild New World, bring to life North America’s most iconic species and landscapes, weaving together science, folklore, and history. Dan’s work not only illuminates the past but also asks urgent questions about the future of conservation, rewilding, and our relationship with the land.

Dan looking very calm during his Joe Rogan Appearances:

 * Dan mentions proof of human footprints [https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abg7586] on North American soil from 23,000 years ago.
 * Giant beaver looking awfully giant.
 * Were North American dire wolves dominated by Eurasian gray wolves?
 * The debate about whether the massive die-off of North American megafauna was caused by climate change or human presence.
 * Should the Clovis people — for their mammoth genocides — be… cancelled?
 * Colossal Biosciences [https://colossal.com/]—an organization devoted to bringing back extinct animals, such as the wooly mammoth.
 * The Wooly Mouse [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0jg4n776evo].
 * Should we reintroduce animals originating in North America (cheetah, camel, etc.) and reintroduce them in places where there is habitat.
 * The Thylacine to be de-extinictified and reintroduced in New Zealand.
 * Will there ever be a huge Great Plains National Park?
 * Will Trump/Vance sell off any public lands?
 * American Prairie [https://americanprairie.org/]
 * Dan’s next book’s working title: Homestead: Building a Green Life in the Modern American Countryside.
 * Some of Dan’s books:
 * Dan’s recommendation: Lone Wolf by Adam Weymouth:

Music by Duncan Barrett, who you can follow and listen to, here [https://duncanbarrett.bandcamp.com/] and here [https://www.instagram.com/duncan.e.barrett/].

#7 Dan Flores on de-extinction, reintroduction, and the American West

Sarah [http://fatherkarine.straw.page/], aka Father_Karine, is a very funny writer. On Substack [https://substack.com/@fatherkarine], she writes about her high maintenance dog [https://fatherkarine.substack.com/p/an-open-letter-to-my-dog-who-if-im?utm_source=profile&utm_medium=reader2], about her young adulthood characterized by all manner of misadventure and disinhibition [https://fatherkarine.substack.com/p/waitress-shitty-rural-restaurant?utm_source=profile&utm_medium=reader2], and about how she can’t be trusted with excellent fruit [https://fatherkarine.substack.com/p/hedge-fund-cherries-one-finance-douches?utm_source=profile&utm_medium=reader2]. She co-hosts the Brutal Film Girl Experiment Podcas [https://www.buzzsprout.com/2375019]t.

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We talked about her post, “A SECOND manic list of 10 film scenes I believe all men love and why they love them, according to me (a woman who's been drinking) [https://substack.com/@fatherkarine/p-153617234]."

Show notes…

 * Mike Schank’s music—not bad!
 * Tulpas are on Reddit [https://www.reddit.com/r/Tulpas/]. Tulpas are My Little Ponies [https://mlpforums.com/topic/27625-would-anybody-like-to-explain-this-tulpa-thing/]?
 * Animated movies that Sarah likes: Perfect Blue & Akira
 * Best non-CGI battle scene ever: Braveheart or Ran?
 * The worst best film ever?
 * We talk Stephen King who’s been responsible for movies including: Carrie, The Dead Zone, It, Misery, The Shawshank Redemption, The Shining, Stand By Me, Pet Sematary, The Green Mile, Cujo, Children of the Corn. Four of those (emboldened) are all-time greats. Where is his lifetime achievement Oscar?
 * Is “Strangers with Candy [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6epnDpt0Qg]” ready for a revival?Music by Duncan Barrett, who you can follow and listen to, here [https://duncanbarrett.bandcamp.com/]and here [https://www.instagram.com/duncan.e.barrett/].

#6 Father Karine: 10 Movie Scenes All Men Love

Out of the Wild is a podcast hosted by writer Ken Ilgunas. We discuss nature, adventure, simple living, culture, history, and politics. 

https://kenilgunas.substack.com