Historian Roderick Nash — author of the landmark Wilderness and the American Mind — joins us for a wide-ranging conversation on the roots of America's wilderness idea and where it should go next. We trace his early awe in places like the Grand Canyon, why Thoreau and Muir were received so differently, and how his scholarship pulled him into advocacy. Nash argues the case for wilderness must shift from human benefit to the intrinsic rights of other species, and unpacks his 'Island Civilization' vision — a future in which humans live concentrated in a few dense enclaves so most of the planet can return to wild nature. Along the way: where the ethical line falls on hunting and technology in a rewilded world, whether meaningful change requires catastrophe or can come gradually, and what a life of ambition, rivers, and writing has taught him — in his 80s — about attention, time, and what he'll leave behind.

25. Roderick Nash on Wilderness, Old Age, and the Next Thousand Years

Wildlife filmmaker Gordon Buchanan joins Ken for a wide-ranging conversation that moves from The Talking Parcel to the wild edges of Scotland. Gordon opens up about the favorite book, movie, and album that shaped him, what it's meant to recognize his own neurodivergence, and how ADHD medication has changed his day-to-day life. He reflects on the transition out of full-time parenting and constant striving — and the new phase of life that's opening up on the other side. From there the conversation heads outdoors: the unexpected corners of Scotland Gordon would take a visitor to, what the country has lost ecologically, and what a hopeful, rewilded Scotland could look like 500 years from now — including whether wolves might really return, and how technology could help manage them. Along the way, Gordon shares what he's learned from communities that seem to have found the right balance of wilderness, adventure, and belonging, how his own island upbringing shaped him, and the dream wildlife documentaries he'd make if he had a time machine.

24. Gordon Buchanan: Rewilding Scotland, ADHD, and the second half of life

Ben Lamm is the co-founder and CEO of Colossal Biosciences [https://colossal.com/], the world’s first de-extinction company.

Matt James is Colossal Biosciences’ Chief Animal Officer and Executive Director of the Colossal Foundation

Stefano Daza Arango is Colossal’s Manager of Conservation Partnerships.

23. Colossal Biosciences on the future of the wild

Tristan Schinke is a first-year student of psychology in Maastricht. He is from the town of Gelnhausen, Germany. He was my partner on a 400-mile hiking and kayaking expedition across Montana’s American Prairie wildlife refuge.

22. Tristan Schinke on Montana, American Prairie, and Adventure

A chat with a Norwegian demographer and the director general of the Norwegian Institute of Public Health



Vegard Skirbekk [https://www.sv.uio.no/psi/english/people/academic/jarlevs/] is a social scientist studying how global demographic change is reshaping health, economies, and society. He is co-founder of the Centre for Fertility and Health and is a professor at the University of Oslo. He is the author of Decline and Prosper: Changing Global Birth Rates and the Advantages of Fewer Children [https://www.amazon.com/Decline-Prosper-Changing-Advantages-Children/dp/3030916103].

Guri Rørtveit [https://www4.uib.no/en/find-employees/guri.rortveit] is a physician and public health researcher, and director general of the Norwegian Institute of Public Health. She is a doctor and professor of family medicine at the University of Bergen.

We discuss:

 * Are we in the midst of a demographic emergency or a new phase of history we don’t yet understand?
 * Why do interventions to increase fertility rarely work?
 * Why Japan might do better with its old age dependency ratio compared to a country such as India.
 * Will the Norwegian population disappear around the year 3200?
 * We discuss some of the depopulation doomer anxieties: no more Einsteins to innovate, no more taxpayers to take care of elderly, reliance on immigration to steady population levels, etc.

21. The Future of Fertility and the Health of Men

Sebastian Junger [https://substack.com/profile/4194267-sebastian-junger] is the author of The Perfect Storm, War, Tribe, Freedom, and most recently In My Time of Dying: How I came face to face with the idea of an afterlife [https://www.sebastianjunger.com/].

We discuss…

* Sebastian’s literary heroes

* Sebastian’s literary motivations

* The state of Sebastian’s “tribal health.”

* The wealthier the neighborhood, the weaker the community?

* How big spaces pull us apart—as discussed in Sebastian’s recent essay, “The Great Abandonment [https://sebastianjunger.substack.com/p/the-great-abandonment].”

* The virtues of stoicism

* American Psychological Association [https://www.apa.org/monitor/2019/01/ce-corner] on traditional masculinity: “The main thrust of the subsequent research is that traditional masculinity—marked by stoicism, competitiveness, dominance and aggression—is, on the whole, harmful.”

* What’s a definition of what manhood is (existentially speaking)?

* Sebastian’s viral Substack post: Young Men and How the Democrats Lost Them [https://sebastianjunger.substack.com/p/young-men-and-how-the-democrats-lost]

* Harvard Professor pushed out for using words like male and female. [https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2021/8/11/biology-lecturer-gender-comments-backlash/]

* Fighting words and uplifting voices from Democrats: Talarico on Colbert [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiTJ7Pz_59A] & Jon Ossoff [https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=hzQY53_hpWw&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Facornabbey.com%2F]

* Marie Gluesenkamp Perez on Ezra Klein [https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/06/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-marie-gluesenkamp-perez.html]

* Voting, jury duty, and giving blood: symbolic gestures of national connection

* I propose some radical ideas to simulate tribal dynamics in a more populous, peacetime world.

* Sebastian’s NDE (Near Death Experience) which led him down a scientific journey to understand the un-understandable

* I turn on the hot lights and ask Sebastian: are NDE visions a product of biology or a consciousness that’s not entirely contained in the brain?

* How Sebastian explains death and the afterlife to his children.

* Sebatian recommends:

Out of the Wild with Ken Ilgunas is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

20. Sebastian Junger on stoicism, the Democrats' man problem, and what happens when we die

Sebastian Junger [https://open.substack.com/users/4194267-sebastian-junger?utm_source=mentions] is the author of The Perfect Storm [https://www.sebastianjunger.com/], [https://www.sebastianjunger.com/]War [https://www.sebastianjunger.com/], [https://www.sebastianjunger.com/]Tribe [https://www.sebastianjunger.com/], [https://www.sebastianjunger.com/]Freedom [https://www.sebastianjunger.com/], and most recently [https://www.sebastianjunger.com/]In My Time of Dying: How I came face to face with the idea of an afterlife [https://www.sebastianjunger.com/].

We discuss…

 * Sebastian’s literary heroes
 * Sebastian’s literary motivations
 * The state of Sebastian’s “tribal health.”
 * The wealthier the neighborhood, the weaker the community?
 * How big spaces pull us apart—as discussed in Sebastian’s recent essay, “The Great Abandonment [https://sebastianjunger.substack.com/p/the-great-abandonment].”

Ishmael and Queequeg together in bed, as sketched by Rockwell Kent, 1930
 * The virtues of stoicism
 * American Psychological Association [https://www.apa.org/monitor/2019/01/ce-corner] on traditional masculinity: “The main thrust of the subsequent research is that traditional masculinity—marked by stoicism, competitiveness, dominance and aggression—is, on the whole, harmful.”
 * What’s a definition of what manhood is (existentially speaking)?
 * Sebastian’s viral Substack post: Young Men and How the Democrats Lost Them [https://sebastianjunger.substack.com/p/young-men-and-how-the-democrats-lost]
 * Harvard Professor pushed out for using words like male and female. [https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2021/8/11/biology-lecturer-gender-comments-backlash/]
 * Fighting words and uplifting voices from Democrats: Talarico on Colbert [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiTJ7Pz_59A] & Jon Ossoff  [https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=hzQY53_hpWw&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Facornabbey.com%2F]
 * Marie Gluesenkamp Perez on Ezra Klein [https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/06/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-marie-gluesenkamp-perez.html]

Gluesenkamp for president
 * Voting, jury duty, and giving blood: symbolic gestures of national connection
 * I propose some radical ideas to simulate tribal dynamics in a more populous, peacetime world.
 * Sebastian’s NDE (Near Death Experience) which led him down a scientific journey to understand the un-understandable
 * I turn on the hot lights and ask Sebastian: are NDE visions a product of biology or a consciousness that’s not entirely contained in the brain?
 * How Sebastian explains death and the afterlife to his children.
 * 

Sebastian Junger on stoicism, the Democrats' man problem, and what happens when we die

Jacob Savage [https://open.substack.com/users/276898-jacob-savage?utm_source=mentions] is a former screenwriter, a freelance writer, and a ticket scalper based in Los Angeles. His essay, “The Lost Generation [https://www.compactmag.com/article/the-lost-generation/],” about the systematic discrimination of white millennial men in the industries of academia, media, and publishing, was one of the most talked about essays of 2025.

19. Jacob Savage on (bad) millennial art, being good but not great, & the future of boys and men

Roman Dial [https://www.instagram.com/dialroman/?hl=en]is a scientist, adventurer, and author based in Alaska. His scientific work has appeared in journals like Science [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38386760/] and Nature [https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-05093-2]. He’s a pioneer of packrafting [https://www.amazon.co.uk/Packrafting-Introduction-Guide-First-Paperback/dp/0974818836]— using lightweight boats to explore remote rivers and landscapes that were previously unreachable. And he’s the author of The Adventurer’s Son [https://www.harpercollins.com/products/the-adventurers-son-roman-dial?variant=32128674955298], a memoir about the love of exploration, the bond between parent and child, and his two-year search for his son.

Roman Dial on Werner Herzog, protégés, sons, and masculinity as force of nature

Nancy Rommelmann is a journalist and an author of many books [https://www.amazon.com/Bridge-True-Story-Motherhood-Murder-ebook/dp/B073FCH41F/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3CRGU3DWCNGDT&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.v2ODV0ImnVea3kWOvvOXNTKOhyCDm_Ha0cly4-Lp9UFxAi5fSy9wJRTW8r2XdVYMOTqASPXmh7KfF2OjJ42vnOikjo8CtZ1Oor_2mS0BcRYPWN58J8cziQ2S80tVydxTIOp4QunlS5SXDYofrOB5bgpAiN5y-Gq8APGMz7pQ827UBtANJicpLphR3ebwvxzeHuIrY9Lm5zRUdp1wVlwEEIXHHd7hWNAKlIoxlkD9OUA.DSp-GkQtN3bU140PnBQA2zxwtAoYReD4nh3tKynsJ_s&dib_tag=se&keywords=to+the+bridge+nancy+rommelmann&qid=1768070589&sprefix=to+the+bridge%2Caps%2C236&sr=8-1], including her latest, Forty Bucks and a Dream [https://www.amazon.com/Forty-Bucks-Dream-Stories-Angeles/dp/B0DGGC2JMN/ref=sr_1_1?crid=20LPCNJ3NDX3H&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.vYqDr8-z8FdPbn7zNxVlZxVRtcQqnRGaaIiZxmgSRbQSYlgITdVaZEERPyJhjiUfg70vCQDL5IUx9k5-4-cu3Jg6xYukMHFVRpKl_j5Vd9AO7oxN7yQ8BeERwdsPULn17QyvwlM3iPZC8_LdGpC85g.ztjpuhkTJ56k1K3t9LpeaTKhfQjnlzUj3qdPV3TDwAo&dib_tag=se&keywords=Forty+Bucks+and+a+Dream&qid=1768070694&sprefix=forty+bucks+and+a+dream%2Caps%2C386&sr=8-1]: a collection of nonfiction pieces about her time in Los Angeles. She is also the co-host of one of my favorite podcasts—Smoke 'Em If You Got 'Em.

We discuss….

 * Nancy’s favorite books [https://x.com/NancyRomm/status/1768272841386955032?s=20].
 * Nobody “snows you” like your kids.
 * What percent sociopath are you?
 * If you got a voucher for a free strip-o-gram, would you take it?

Would you?
 * Team Sarah (yes to love life writing) vs Team Nancy (not as much so)

A book I recommended to Nancy
 * I ask why and how “Sarah and Nancy work as a podcasting duo.”
 * Smoke Em Dramas:
   Sarah and Nancy debating “negging.”
   [https://smokeempodcast.substack.com/p/214-the-trouble-with-writing-about]Nancy and Walter Kirn debating [https://smokeempodcast.substack.com/p/121-walter-kirn-everybodys-learned]Viktor Orbán.
   Sarah’s botched introduction to Michael Tracey.  [https://smokeempodcast.substack.com/p/222-michael-tracey-on-kirk-epstein]
 * Nancy writing about the Ristretto Roasters saga [https://quillette.com/2019/02/18/the-internet-locusts-descend-on-ristretto-roasters/].
 * Where the “Hot for Due Process [https://smokeempodcast.substack.com/p/21-the-destruction-of-others]” swag idea was borne.
 * The art of not falling apart: having something important and unselfish to do?
 * The first of the Musings of the Night Nurse [https://nancyrommelmann.substack.com/p/musings-of-the-night-nurse] series.



Music by Duncan Barrett, who you can follow and listen to, here [https://duncanbarrett.bandcamp.com/] and here [https://www.instagram.com/duncan.e.barrett/].

Nancy Rommelmann on podcasting, getting cancelled, and sympathizing with straight white guys 

Ken I (@kenilg) · Zencastr

Ken I (@kenilg)

Out of the Wild is a podcast hosted by writer Ken Ilgunas. We discuss nature, adventure, simple living, culture, history, and politics. 

https://kenilgunas.substack.com