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Cool Careers in Accounting Ep. 28 - Accounting Without Limits: From Ledgers to the Witness Stand with Kathy A. Johnson
426 Plays24 days ago
Host Mike Potenza sits down with Kathy Johnson, who shares her story of parlaying a high-school accounting class into a dynamic 25-year career. Growing up in small-town Texas, she rose from newspaper bookkeeper to VP of FP&A before reinventing herself as a forensic accountant and expert witness with JS Held, LLC and educator. As past chair of CalCPA and an AICPA judiciary instructor, Johnson champions leadership, diversity and lifelong learning, crediting volunteer service and networking for opening doors. Her story shows how curiosity, courage and community can turn a CPA license into an expansive, impact-driven career.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Overview
00:00:09
Speaker
everyone, welcome to another episode of Becker's Cool Careers in Accounting. We spotlight leaders shaping the world of accounting and business and even beyond. My name is Mike Potenza from Becker Professional Education. I'll be your host today, and I am really excited about my guest this week. Her name is Kathy Johnson.
00:00:29
Speaker
Kathy is a CPA, but she's so much more than a CPA. She's really a trailblazer in forensic accounting. She's been a chair of CalCPA. And overall, she's just a passionate advocate about leadership and
Kathy's Early Life and Career Beginnings
00:00:43
Speaker
education. When we talk about her career and the different roles she had, you're going to be like, really? One person can do this? We're going to talk about newspaper industry, FP&A, CFO,
00:00:54
Speaker
fraud examiner, expert witness. I mean, her resume is absolutely amazing. So I'm really excited about today. And with that, I'll say, Kathy, welcome to the show. And thank you so much for being here today.
00:01:08
Speaker
Wow, Mike, what a wonderful introduction. Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. So I just gave a really brief list of all of your accomplishments and what you've done professionally, but I don't want to start there. I just want to step back and I want to start and go back more towards the beginning and talk about young Cathy and early life. Where did you grow up?
00:01:29
Speaker
Primarily Galveston, Texas. I moved to Galveston when I got into high school. Prior to that, it was a small town called Sillsby, Texas, but Texas girl, I am.
00:01:42
Speaker
Sillsby. I gotta of honestly say, I'd never heard of Sillsby before. I don't know where that is, but I'm sure, maybe you all hopefully it was a nice place to grow up. Yes, it was. It's about it's it's east of Galveston, about 50 miles east of Galveston. But it was a wonderful place to grow up.
00:01:59
Speaker
Oh, great. Did you grow a big family, small family? how did that look? Relatively small family. My mother raised my three brothers and I by herself.
00:02:09
Speaker
And we're very, very close today. All of us, my mom and my three brothers. But her, my aunts and uncles were a big part of our our extended family growing up. So we're we're all pretty close. Just had a family reunion, which was awesome.
00:02:26
Speaker
Oh, those are always fun for sure. So you're growing up in this small town in
Discovering a Passion for Accounting
00:02:31
Speaker
Texas. You moved to Galveston and you have three brothers. i can't imagine. who Where were you? Were you the youngest, middle, oldest? Where'd you fall in line?
00:02:38
Speaker
One older brother and two younger brothers. And actually the one right underneath me was probably my biggest protector of ah everything. But we're all we're all very close.
00:02:52
Speaker
Well, it's always good to have one of those, that's for sure. Well, so, okay, you're growing up in this you know small but extended family in Galveston. How do you make a transition that you ultimately say one day, you know what, I think I want to go into accounting. Did you have a mentor in the family that was an accountant or you know where did you discover this profession?
00:03:12
Speaker
Well, I had an uncle who was in accounting, but I really had no clue as to what he was doing. He was actually graduating or just getting out of college during my high school years when I was trying to figure out what it is that I wanted to do.
00:03:28
Speaker
So I went to my counselor my junior year in high school, and she took a look at my grades and she said, you know, why don't you take this accounting course for your senior year?
00:03:40
Speaker
And my immediate reaction to her was, i don't want to do any hard math. I was taking geometry at the time and I was and i was taking algebra. i loved my algebra course, making A's in it.
00:03:52
Speaker
Loved my, I did not like my geometry course. I was barely making a B in that class. And she came back and said, you know, accounting is not hard math.
00:04:03
Speaker
Why don't you give it a try? You've got an A in algebra. Just go ahead and give it a try and look at me today from that conversation. Wow. So really the the the force behind this was a high school guidance counselor. that That's pretty impressive because, you know, i a lot of guidance counselors, they don't even know what accounting is, some of these people, are right? So that's great that you were able to get that advice. So you're like, all right, I think I'm going to go into accounting. Did you stay in a small college in Texas or did you go out on the on the road? Where'd you wind up going to school?
University Experience and Career Path
00:04:35
Speaker
I ended up going to the University of Texas at Austin. I had ah my best friend. Her sisters were already there. And that was one of the reasons i chose UT Austin. But remember, I grew up, I was the only girl with three brothers and i grew up in Texas. So football was king.
00:04:53
Speaker
And so we're always a ah Longhorn, Texas Longhorn fan. So I ended up initially going to UT Austin. I knew I was wanted to go there.
00:05:05
Speaker
And going there was in my power at the time, because in Texas, you needed to, all you needed to do was graduate in the top 10% of your class, and they had to accept you, meaning the University of Texas at Austin.
00:05:18
Speaker
I had no clue how I was going to pay for it, and neither did my mother. She was raising us on governmental assistance primarily. And so ah She actually decided to move the family there so that for sure i would have a place to stay. ah and And that's how I ended up being able to ah comfortably go to to UT Austin.
00:05:40
Speaker
OK, now, obviously, it's a big football school. So do you go to the games with Matthew McConaughey or anything like that? You get to hang out with him? No, Matthew McConaughey was not around when I was there.
00:05:52
Speaker
ah But, you know, I did. One of the first things you do is you you you go to every game. I mean, you're you're at UT Austin. You go to the games. big Still a big Longhorn fan. You know, UT Austin was a bit overwhelming for me.
00:06:08
Speaker
it Coming from my background, it was it was a huge school with 40,000 students. I felt lost early on. um And I ultimately ended up transferring to UT Arlington, still a diehard Hocum Horns Longhorn fan.
00:06:25
Speaker
But I transferred to UT Arlington, which to me was was awesome because I was getting closer to the Dallas Cowboys. Again, still a big time Cowboy fan. So so you think ah Arch Manning might get drafted by the Cowboys and then you get the best of both worlds?
00:06:42
Speaker
No, no, no. We and Cowboys are going to find their way. We're struggling and every year. I tell my friends we're going to win the Super Bowl. I still believe that we're going to win the Super Bowl.
00:06:54
Speaker
Listen, I'm from New York, so I have the Giants and the Jets here and and they can't you know punch their way out of a paper bag. It's so bad. So I feel your pain. Believe me. All right, so then let's talk about
Career in Newspaper Industry
00:07:07
Speaker
this. Now, you you go to UT and you switch over to UT Arlington, and now you're getting ready to graduate. So once you graduate, do you go right into becoming a CPA? Do you work in public accounting? What's the first step professionally outside of college?
00:07:25
Speaker
This is a really interesting story. So during college, I had to, of course, still work my way through school. And I did that. I was working at a, and ah it was a weekly newspaper.
00:07:39
Speaker
And the Dallas Times Herald had an application. They had a a job opening for an accounts payable position. Now UT Arlington is in Arlington, Texas. It's you know about 30 miles from from Dallas. And so I, again, try and wanted to work, I enjoyed working for this news, the daily newspaper i signed on as their bookkeeper. I was the only bookkeeper. I'm always constantly challenging myself.
00:08:11
Speaker
And I was having fun, really enjoying the work. But when the Dallas Times Herald opened up that accounts payable position, I thought, oh, wouldn't it be great to work for the Dallas Times Herald?
00:08:23
Speaker
So I applied for this accounts payable position and received a phone call back. And the accounting manager said, Ms. Johnson, you know, you applied for this accounts payable position, but we believe you're overqualified for it because of your experience at this date you know at this weekly newspaper.
00:08:44
Speaker
We have a staff accounting position that we have not yet posted. Would you be interested in applying for that position? And that's how I actually started out in the quote unquote major newspaper industry.
00:08:59
Speaker
Oh, wow. So you start out a little local paper, little bookkeeping job, but then you parlay that into a much bigger paper and become a staff accountant. And that's how you really get all your experience in the accounting industry.
00:09:12
Speaker
Absolutely. I was fortunate enough to be at the Dallas Times Herald when Media News Group first started their corporate office. This was a ah newspaper company that had about 31 daily and weeklies, but the Dallas Times Herald was the biggest purchase for that owner.
00:09:32
Speaker
And he happened to start his corporate office in Dallas at the Dallas Times Herald. mean, this is a major purchase for him. And I was one of the first three employees. I applied for that staff accounting position.
00:09:45
Speaker
By the way, many of my friends and colleagues were saying, oh, it's a grunt position. yeah i don't know if you really want that. He hired three employees, myself, a CFO. The guy's name is Jody Lodovic, who is very instrumental in the solid foundation and accounting that I have today. So I definitely want to give him credit.
00:10:03
Speaker
He trained me. He came from EY, but he was awesome in in terms of training and really, i think, putting a lot of time and effort and making sure I understood what I was doing.
00:10:16
Speaker
So one of the first three employees at the corporate office, and that helped propel me to where I am today because of the great training and because of my willingness to ah go with my gut versus listening to what everyone else was trying to tell me to do.
00:10:33
Speaker
Right. And I mean, if you don't do the grunt work, how do you cut your teeth? Right. How do you know? Absolutely. Right. That's what we all have to learn. So i totally get that. But I'm assuming now when you started this position, this was pre-Internet boom, right? Then the Internet comes along. And I have to guess that that significantly affected the business of the newspaper industry. So what happened there and how long did you wind up staying there?
Impact of Internet and Recession on Newspaper Industry
00:11:00
Speaker
I moved around quite a bit, if you'll and kind of go back then through my career, within the newspaper industry. I was with Media News Group for a while. I also, when Media News Group moved their corporate office to Denver, I worked for USA Today for a while. I worked...
00:11:17
Speaker
at the Arizona Republic, all in the newspaper industry. So I'm the type of person that when an opportunity presented itself, if I thought it was good for me, if it was something that I wanted to explore, I accepted it. And so the newspaper companies I worked for moved me around quite a bit.
00:11:35
Speaker
When we talk about the internet boom, I think the greatest impact on me within the newspaper industry was in the 2008-2009 economic recession.
00:11:48
Speaker
That's when the newspapers themselves were trying to figure out what is that profit model? What does it look like? We downsize more than any other industry in the U.S. during that timeframe.
00:11:59
Speaker
You know, we could only reduce when you talk about downsizing, you're talking about laying people off for no faults of their own, but simply because we were not bringing in the the print,
00:12:12
Speaker
revenue that we normally would bring in. The internet was there and people were exploring with other advertising venues such as the internet. And so um i was at the Los Angeles newspaper group, still an organization under media news group, the first newspaper group I started working for. and was a vice president of financial planning and analysis. And we had several other executives we call in the Inland Empire. This is east of LA.
00:12:43
Speaker
and several cities, the Inland Empire, i was 50, over as in terms of the accounting and finance for different newspapers within that group at the time.
00:12:54
Speaker
And the company had to consolidate the executive team. So there was about three of us that were four of us that were let go at the same time. They consolidated the executive team to Woodland Hills, again, trying to figure out what does that profit model look like?
00:13:13
Speaker
And, uh, make a long story short, I decided to explore other options when when that happened. decided ah decided to start teaching. Actually, i started teaching just prior to that that that layoff. And based on my teaching, I was able to connect with a guy who was in forensic accounting who reached out to me and asked if I would um be interested in doing some projects with him. He saw that we lived in the same small town.
00:13:51
Speaker
So let let me let me just see if I understand this. You're working for the paper for a number of years. You start out staff accountant, make it all the way up to vice president of FP&A. Then the industry starts to change and downsize. So you're thinking to yourself, well, might be time to get out of this industry. Been there a long time, but I can see the writing on the wall. You start to teach.
00:14:12
Speaker
And coincidentally, you just meet someone, you make a connection that positions you and helps you pivot to a whole new career. Yes. Basically, yes. And I had heard a lot about forensic accounting.
Transition to Forensic Accounting
00:14:26
Speaker
and There are a lot of skips in there.
00:14:29
Speaker
During that period, while in California, I have always networked within California Society of CPAs. And so there were several people within CalCPA that I knew was in forensic accounting.
00:14:43
Speaker
So it wasn't foreign to me, but I just didn't... Didn't know how I could actually step into the industry without taking a step back in my career. And I wasn't willing to do that. I'd worked very hard and I wanted to maintain ah the the professional level that I had reached. And so when I met this other individual that had his own firm and he was willing to partner with me, it that was my, say, guideline or guideway into forensic accounting.
00:15:15
Speaker
Okay, so you're going to now pivot out of newspapers into forensic accounting, have a kind of partner slash mentor. But I know you also chaired CalCPA. So I'm trying to figure out the timeline, how you work this all in. Were you already a chair of CalCPA by the time you went into forensic accounting or did that happen later on down the road?
Leadership and Volunteering in CalCPA
00:15:36
Speaker
It happened later on. While I was an executive at the newspaper industry, I decided to get CPE. We all need that CPE. So I went to a CalCPA's local meeting and the officers there were so friendly. They were so warm and welcoming. And i I felt like they really wanted me there. I think that, well, I know that was very important for me within this industry and kind of being very candid with you. There's not a lot of ah people that look like me at the higher echelon levels in the accounting industry.
00:16:10
Speaker
I felt wanted. I felt that I could add value. They actually came up and asked me if I would chair the, I believe believeed it was like the marketing promotion committee within the Inland Empire and the Inland Empire chapter board All came over, they introduced themselves, made me feel welcome, asked me if I would chair a committee.
00:16:32
Speaker
Because I was in the newspaper industry, they thought I could add value and bring something to that position. My first words to them was, you know, I don't know if I could fulfill that level of commitment.
00:16:45
Speaker
I've moved around like every couple of years, the newspapers that I've worked for have moved me around and I don't want to accept a position where I really can't fulfill the role.
00:16:56
Speaker
And they didn't take no for an answer. They ah invited me to an executive leadership conference they were having Lake Arrowhead. And you know what? I accepted.
00:17:09
Speaker
i ultimately became president of the chapter. And which enabled me to go to the national, to the statewide meetings. And this is a really interesting story if you've got time here. Sure. Here. and So i I joined this CalCPA officer leadership training program and they, so different ah classes of leadership brag about, you know which class was the best.
00:17:41
Speaker
And there are about 20 of us statewide. And so within that leadership training course, well, CalCPA paid about 80% of the fee for that.
00:17:52
Speaker
And so I, they asked me if I would give the thank you for the class to the full council, to CalCPA's council, for footing the bill for us. So I was asked, and another person was, I was asked to give the thank you, little nervous, and I'm in a room of 200 people that I only know about 10 of them, but I accepted, again, always challenging myself,
00:18:17
Speaker
From that and speech, that really was my introduction to a lot of other people statewide, a lot of other CPAs within CalCPA statewide.
00:18:27
Speaker
And when you become chair of CalCPA, you get an opportunity to pick one person to sit on the board of directors of CalCPA. Well, CalCPA had about 40,000 members at that time.
00:18:41
Speaker
And Ed Jordan had just become chair. And i was his one pick to just sit on the board. And I just, I felt so excited, so awesome.
00:18:52
Speaker
ah But it was through mentoring of the local chapter leaders that helped me, um gave me the confidence to actually join the leadership course. Remember, I'm a vice president.
00:19:03
Speaker
I see that. Learning is, it doesn't stop no matter how high up you are. i went, you can always have leadership training, which was exhibited to me through other leaders within the Inland Empire chapter. So because I joined that class, I was able to introduce myself to statewide CPAs from that position I was able, I was asked to be a member of CalCPA's board of directors.
00:19:31
Speaker
And then you had to apply for other positions on the board. And I continued to apply ultimately. Becoming CalCPA's chair, um as I'm just really getting started in my partnership CPA firm,
00:19:49
Speaker
Wow. All right. So that sounds like a very busy schedule. I mean, I don't even know how you have the time to do the new partnership and learn about forensic accounting while doing CalCPAs, but you seem to have mastered it. So talk to me a little bit about getting into forensic
Focus on Forensic Accounting and Litigation Support
00:20:03
Speaker
accounting. You know, was there a big learning curve and what are the types of cases that you work on?
00:20:09
Speaker
For me, there was not a big learning curve because I'd spent over 25 years in accounting. And so I felt like that gave me an edge over someone new, maybe someone who had and primarily audit experience, which is good experience, by the way. I'll never down that.
00:20:25
Speaker
But I had practical business experience. So when this um this sole proprietor asked me to become a partner, he won it he was looking for someone who was a CPA already.
00:20:37
Speaker
and willing to partner with he and one of his staff who, um was not a CPA yet, but she was sitting for the CPA exam. And so because of this interesting field, and I'd learned a lot about it from my colleagues at CalCPA, I accepted it accepted that um offer from him.
00:21:00
Speaker
He stayed around for two years. That was the agreement. He would train us. He would give us hands-on training for two years. Now he primarily worked in family law. But within forensic accounting and the family law arena, most of the engagements come through ah attorneys and clients looking for someone to value businesses.
00:21:24
Speaker
calculating cashflow analysis and other types of cashflow available for child support and or alimony. And so that's how I got my feet wet. He was hands-on there ah training us all the way through, but I knew how to analyze financial statements. That's what I did.
00:21:46
Speaker
ah Our other partners, she subsequently did get her CPA. But he actually, ah after the two years, he was looking to retire from the forensic accounting arena, and he did.
00:22:01
Speaker
Unfortunately for us, once he retired, and the attorneys that he had previously worked with had brought in, was working with us, also began to leave.
00:22:14
Speaker
And so my partner um had a family that she was trying to care for. By the way, and I know this may sound convoluted, but I was an adjunct professor at the time. I continued to be an adjunct professor during that time. So I had supplemental income besides my forensic accounting work, if if that makes sense.
00:22:33
Speaker
And so she felt like she had to go and find a full-time job because the forensic accounting firm that we were running, we were we were running ah we were Revenue was coming in, but not to an extent where it could fully support, um give her and a livable income.
00:22:53
Speaker
For me, i loved it. She loved it. But I also had a supplemental income because I was an adjunct professor. I was teaching for several universities here in the Inland Empire, Cal State San Bernardino.
00:23:06
Speaker
I teach a graduate forensic accounting course at UC Riverside and also a graduate forensic accounting course at Cal State Long Beach. different semesters every year, at spring semester, UC Riverside, summer, Cal State Long Beach, and all around for Cal State San Bernardino. So I was able to continue that firm on my own.
00:23:28
Speaker
And I did that up until pre-COVID. ah Still being an adjunct professor, also teaching CPE for Cal Society of CPAs. I, you know, I did that as well.
00:23:42
Speaker
ah But I was able to support myself through my firm and my adjunct professor teaching pre-COVID, JS Held reached out. which is a global ah ah global consulting firm. ah it's not a really It's not an accounting firm, but it's a global consulting company that has purchased a lot of accounting firms recently, a lot of forensic accounting firms. But I was able to um support myself in my own entity until they reached out.
00:24:13
Speaker
Now, I loved being on my own. Yeah. And, but pre-COVID, I decided to take, ah listen to what they had to say, because I get my clients through networking, advertising, oh not not really um advertising myself through in-person events.
00:24:35
Speaker
And that's the way I like to look at it. Advertising my skill sets, my services, but personally, not through a newspaper ad or online, but meeting with people, giving presentations, showing my expertise in the field that I'm working in.
00:24:50
Speaker
And when the and discussions started taking place regarding COVID and the country potentially shutting down, I thought, well, this is a good time to listen to this global company that has been reaching out to me a couple of times and hear what they have to say.
00:25:07
Speaker
And that's how I ultimately got involved with JS Health. And they agreed to hire my part-time staff, which one of them was my so prior student, but they agreed to hire my staff full-time. So that's how I ended up accepting that role at JS Health.
00:25:22
Speaker
And then did you do the same type of work you were doing previously when you were on your own with the small firm? Yes, I did. in the meantime, as I'm and working in forensic accounting, i also, i one of the CalCPA members had and given me experience in preparing income taxes, both corporate and personal.
00:25:43
Speaker
So I did tax and forensic accounting, which helped diversify the services I could offer to clients. And so when I went to work for JS Health, they did not prepare income taxes. So I let that piece of my business go and started focusing 100% on forensic accounting.
00:26:02
Speaker
And then when do you parlay the expert witness into the whole Kathy Johnson equation? Immediately. When and Howard Friedman was the guy who taught me um forensic accounting, who really he was the sole proprietor that I spoke about earlier.
00:26:21
Speaker
He, um it was just hands-on training. Like i said, I had accounting experience. So I was able to utilize my 25 years of accounting experience to um to start testifying right away.
00:26:36
Speaker
i had my CPA already. And I also felt the need to become certified so i in forensic accounting. So I sat for the CFF exam given offered by the AICPA.
00:26:50
Speaker
So I got my CFF, means certified in financial forensics. And along with my CPA and I, through my networking and analysis work, attorneys did trust me. I worked with several attorneys who trusted in my accounting experience and my I'm an educator as well.
00:27:10
Speaker
So I've got three. I've got business and industry experience. I've got um forensic accounting experience, analyzing stuff. And I'm a professor, so I teach accounting concepts.
00:27:25
Speaker
And so I was able to parlay that experience to becoming an an expert witness, like really right off the bat. And then when you do something like that, is that just like a separate side business from the main business where you're working for the forensic accounting firm?
00:27:44
Speaker
No, it's it's it's when you say like that, I want to make sure I understand the question. So when i went when Howard, myself and Korea, when we started our firm, I brought tax in. So I brought it in as a another source of revenue, although I was the only partner performing taxes.
00:28:04
Speaker
But I also and took on forensic accounting clients. And so it was it was all one firm for both Korea and i We share the the the revenue, but I just had other experiences that i that i could offer services off off of I was experienced in ah performing taxes, both personal and in corporate. I was experienced in business and industry, which you need that type of experience
00:28:36
Speaker
or at least auditing at a minimum in order to perform forensic accounting. It's very detailed. And so what I had to learn, which Howard helped me with, was more of the the processes. what were How do i how do I connect the accounting experience that I have to aspects of the law, because you wanna think of forensic accounting as an intersection of accounting and the law.
00:29:04
Speaker
And so I had to learn the legal piece. Also sitting for the CFF exam, getting my credentials in ah financial forensics helped me understand what the legal community was needing from forensic accountants.
00:29:23
Speaker
And so our our i like to say our forensic accountants, our primary role is to assist in litigation, provide litigation support. We're not attorneys, but you know we're forensic accountants.
00:29:36
Speaker
And so because of the hands-on experience that I was able to gain ah from from ah Howard Friedman, as well as the the experience i was able to seek on my own, I didn't just rest on the fact that I'm a CPA.
00:29:52
Speaker
I mean, I was encouraged by another colleague, a friend who's still a friend, to join CalCPA's Forensic Services Litigation Section Committee. And I would go to those meetings.
00:30:03
Speaker
You would be surprised, and maybe you won't, but you'd be surprised how open and sharing ah people are within this profession. We would talk about in those meetings different cases and different concepts and different litigation engagements.
00:30:20
Speaker
whether it's family law, whether it's business valuations or economic damages, all of the areas that forensic accountants work on we have members who specialize in those areas in CalCPA's forensic services section.
00:30:36
Speaker
And so by me consistently going to those meetings, I was able to gain that knowledge and another level of confidence in my testimony. Oh, that's great. That's really
Educating Judges on Financial Concepts
00:30:47
Speaker
interesting. And and on top of the CalCPA, what's also very interesting that I found when I was reading your bio is the AICPA Judiciary Committee. And correct me if I'm wrong, but in this role, are you actually helping teach judges how to interpret financial information for their caseloads?
00:31:05
Speaker
Yes, I am. So this is really a lot of interesting stories. um There's a professor that I, we both sat on the board of Cal CPA and ah and Professor John Lacey.
00:31:20
Speaker
He actually is a full-time professor at Cal State Long Beach. And he would always share with us how he would teach, help he would teach judges accounting. And I thought, oh, wow, I would like to do that one day. So I applied for the AICPA's Judiciary Committee. And what the AICPA does is they um provide and the professors, the lecturers, to work with the National Judiciary College to offer courses in accounting or accounting for the courtroom. Financials in the courtroom is the name of our session.
00:31:55
Speaker
And so I applied based on the recommendation of Dr. Lacey. He still is one of the professors and I've been doing it now for three years. He's been he's been a professor for over 20 years. And so we hold classes where we ah teach judges about all different financial concepts within the courtroom that they may face, whether it's auditing or forensic accounting or business valuations.
00:32:21
Speaker
ah But we we hold a two-day course, and we just had one a few weeks ago in San Francisco for about 20 judges. Wow. Did you ever teach a judge and then later on in time wind up being an expert witness in front of that judge and be like, hey, listen, you know what I'm talking about because I taught you everything you know? Did that ever happen? Has not happened yet. I won't rule it out. I mean, because I am an expert witness. But, you know, you do think about that and you're going, OK, I need to make sure that, you know, I'm on my my P's and Q's. I'm I'm able to actually articulate that.
00:32:54
Speaker
you know, what it is I'm trying to say in a way that the judge will understand it. Because if I am in front of that judge, that judge to have a good memory of my, um my ability to articulate my expertise. So um that's always a it's always top of mind. I will be honest.
00:33:09
Speaker
I can imagine. Well, going from industry and then all the different things you did there, being an adjunct, and now on top of it, all of this volunteer work for CalCPA, for AICPA, is there something you enjoy better than the other better than than anything else? Like, you love being the volunteer work more or industry, or you just love it all together? Yeah.
00:33:31
Speaker
For me, I'm the type of person, I love variety and I love people. And most people think of CPAs as being a accounting nerds in front of a screen. I'm the opposite. I love it all together. I love volunteering with CalCPA because it opened up another world for me. Never in my dream would I would have thought I could become chair of the largest state society ah in the US, which is California.
00:33:54
Speaker
I came up through a business and industry. And so i was it was a non-traditional path. Most people would come to become a CPA. They graduate in accounting. They go to work for um is public accounting firms.
00:34:08
Speaker
And then they put in you know the two or three years required so that they can get their license. I was already working for the newspaper industry when I passed the CPA exam. It was not feasible for me to quit my job and go to work for CPA firm. So fortunately for me,
00:34:24
Speaker
I lived in the state of Texas and then all I needed to do was and perform internal auditing, which I did. And I told you i worked for this large newspaper group, um over 30 daily, non-daily newspapers.
00:34:41
Speaker
And under the supervision of a licensed CPA, which was Jodi Lodovic, I audited. I did perform internal auditing services um of those newspapers and Therefore, I was able to get my license in Texas. Now, had I graduated in California at the time, California didn't oh didn't have that pathway available.
00:35:02
Speaker
They do now, but they did not at the time. And so I may not have become a CPA at all. But because of the training through Jodi and my internal audit work, I was able to get my license in the state of Texas.
00:35:16
Speaker
um which you know set me on on another path. that mean that It's like you you need to, I told my students, it's about preparing yourselves for opportunities that's going to present themselves.
00:35:31
Speaker
Throughout your life, you're going to have a lot of opportunities. But if you're not prepared to take advantage of them, you you're just going to, they're going to pass you by. And so i never thought i would become chair of CalCPA.
00:35:43
Speaker
I mean, that just wasn't a dream. i I never thought that could happen. But I had my license. I got my license early on. And so all of the opportunities that afforded me, such as teaching at a state university, because I had my license,
00:35:59
Speaker
And I got my MBA from Pepperdine University. I didn't have to have a PhD in order to teach at a state university. Wow, that's great. So thinking about all of these items you told me, I know a lot of people that are working, whether they're in a public accounting firm, whether they're working in you know accounting for a corporate office, whatever they're doing, a lot of people never do the volunteer work, work for their state society, work for the AICPA, because listen, it's unpaid
The Value of Volunteering in Professional Societies
00:36:28
Speaker
work, right? And people have other commitments and they're trying to make money and they have family.
00:36:32
Speaker
What would be your argument to someone about saying, you know what, it's really rewarding. And how do you go about starting to volunteer? What's the path and why would somebody want to do that?
00:36:47
Speaker
but start out telling people, you don't know what you don't know. And I didn't know what I didn't know. And so for me, voluntary volunteering at, say, CalCPA and the AICPA, it was an opportunity to learn more about the profession that I was working in.
00:37:07
Speaker
I had someone to train me on how to prepare business valuations for family law, but I wanted to extend that. I heard about preparing business valuations for sell-off companies.
00:37:19
Speaker
Through volunteering at CalCPA, I was able to network and learn from other professionals doing that work. And so they provided opportunities for me that had I not been a volunteer would have never been afforded to me.
00:37:39
Speaker
Volunteering, it's yes, it's about giving back to your community, but it's It's about much more. It's about it's about expanding your knowledge base.
00:37:51
Speaker
It's about meeting ah people and um being able to um enjoy opportunities that you wouldn't that you wouldn't know about. they wouldn't They wouldn't come your way. So it's a two-way street. I gain as much by, i would say i gain more by volunteering than, um,
00:38:13
Speaker
than I give, I would have never met Dr. Lacey. I would have never known about this program where AICPA provides instructors for judges, which helps me hone in on my expertise because now I'm not just speaking to a judge in a two hour or three hour trial.
00:38:31
Speaker
It's two days here. I'm interacting with judges and learning what it is they need from me and learning how to communicate with them because I volunteer and do this work. I'm a better expert witness, in my opinion.
00:38:45
Speaker
Wow. but I'm definitely a more confident one. For sure, you should be.
Networking and Closing Remarks
00:38:51
Speaker
I will say this has really been an inspiring conversation. Just listening to your jury your journey from boardroom, a staff accountant to boardroom, to FP&A, to expert witness, to fraud examiner. I mean, you really run the gamut. And on top of it,
00:39:10
Speaker
all of the adjunct work, the volunteer work for CalCPA, for AICPA. I don't know how one person can do so much in such a short amount of time. If there is anybody listening to this and they want to learn more about you or what you do, or maybe reach out to you, is there a best place online? Is it a website? Is it a LinkedIn? How could somebody learn and more about Kathy Johnson?
00:39:33
Speaker
Please reach out to me via LinkedIn. I do try to respond to anyone who reaches out. I've been very successful at doing that. I try to make time. I i believe this is a wonderful profession. This meeting, the accounting, the CPA world is a wonderful, wonderful profession. And I believe we all in it have a responsibility to give back. There's so many people that have taken time to talk to me and and train me on different aspects of my career.
00:40:01
Speaker
i enjoy giving back. I enjoy teaching because of that. So reach out to me. on I'm online. I do respond. i I love responding. Well, again, Kathy, I cannot thank you enough for taking time out of your extremely busy schedule to just spend a little time with us and with the audience and let them know the different paths that are out there because we all know traditional public accounting. But what's great about this program is that we can highlight so many different paths that one could go down or maybe in your case, like five different paths that someone could go down. So thank you again so much for being here. We really appreciate it.
00:40:40
Speaker
Oh, thanks for inviting me. Well, everyone, that was an amazing conversation with Kathy Johnson, really an inspirational leader and just so great to see what you could do inside of the world of accounting.
00:40:54
Speaker
But before we close out, I just want to make sure everyone is aware you can earn CPE credit just for listening to this podcast. All you need to do is visit the link in the show notes to get your credit.
00:41:06
Speaker
And even better news is if you're a Prime CPE subscriber, all you need to do is just log in at no extra cost to finalize your credits. So thank you again. We look forward to seeing you in the future podcast related to Becker's cool careers in accounting.
00:41:24
Speaker
Have a great day, everyone.