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Tax News Now Ep. 14 - Busy Season by Design: Running a Smarter Tax Practice When It Matters Most with Kelley Hare
93 Plays4 hours ago
Busy season doesn’t have to feel like controlled chaos. In this episode Mark Gallegos, Tax Partner at Porte Brown, and his guest, Kelley Hare, dive into practical tax practice management strategies, from workflow and staffing to client expectations and technology, to deliver a smoother and more profitable tax season.
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Transcript
Introduction to Tax News Now
00:00:09
Speaker
Welcome back to Tax News Now, the podcast where we bring clarity, insight, and real-world perspective to the world of taxes, legislation, planning, and practice management. I'm your host, Mark Gallegos.
Meet Kelly Hare, Tax Partner
00:00:20
Speaker
Today's episode is a special one for me. I'm joined by someone who plays a major role in how our firm prepares for tax season, develops our staff, supports our clients, and builds a strong and steady tax practice.
00:00:31
Speaker
She's a friend, a colleague, a leader, a partner, and someone I deeply, deeply respect. I'm talking about Kelly Hare. Kelly is a tax partner at Portie Brown based in our Elk Grove Village office.
00:00:42
Speaker
She holds an MST from Northern Illinois University. She's a CPA and she leads our tax service practice group. She works with individuals, closely held businesses, and startups on tax planning, compliance, and financial statement preparation, accounting systems training, and consulting.
00:00:58
Speaker
She does everything when it comes to tax and is a wealth of knowledge.
Kelly's Journey in Taxation
00:01:02
Speaker
But beyond the resume, Kelly is also an avid fisherman. an amateur photographer, the oldest of five girls, a community leader that has done things with the Illinois CPA Society, and also has been the treasurer of the Elk Grove Chamber of Commerce.
00:01:16
Speaker
She brings energy, she brings focus, clarity, and a genuine commitment to the people around her. Today, we're dividing and diving into her story, her leadership philosophy, her approach to tax season, which is coming down the road, and her advice for all professionals listening as we gear up for another year.
00:01:32
Speaker
So Kelly, welcome to the show. Thanks, Mark. Happy to be here. Awesome. So Kelly, let's start at the beginning. I mean, or or somewhere at the beginning. You could have pursued a lot of different directions in accounting, but what originally drew you into the world of tax and made you feel like this was the right path for you? Or how did you fall into tax in the first place?
00:01:54
Speaker
Sure. um I was very fortunate in college to have been part of two different mentor groups from the accounting standpoint side.
00:02:04
Speaker
um And that gave me the opportunity to have ah two different internships. And so the first one that I had was my junior year was at a firm in Naperville. And they actually let me start preparing tax returns like the second day that I was there having really like no background at all.
00:02:23
Speaker
I was just plugging in numbers and looking at the forms and trying to understand what I was supposed to be doing. And I don't know, I just kind of kind of had a a knack for you know digging in and and finding what needs to go and in different spots. um The second internship actually was with the firm Portie Brown where I'm currently a partner and where I've spent the majority actually the most of my career all 27 years of it. um Same thing started right out of the bat.
Career Milestones and Mentorship
00:02:51
Speaker
I would say after five years of doing general accounting And audit, there was one day in particular that sticks out that was like the the pivotal point in my career, where I was called into the tax partner's office, and sitting down was the managing partner at the time.
00:03:13
Speaker
And I was like, holy crap, like this is probably not a good thing. Like I'm probably getting fired or something bad's gonna happen. And it was about five years of experience. I like really, really liked doing the tax returns.
00:03:27
Speaker
My goal was always to just, you know, not get any review points back or whatnot. And so I sit down and they basically, at the time we had no tax managers on staff. We were trying to hire from the outside, had didn't have a lot of good luck. And Portie Brown has always had like the philosophy of just building building the staff up from within.
00:03:49
Speaker
So sit down, they're like, how do you feel about working towards tax manager? And I was like, Sounds good. ah The tax partner at the time, he was an ex-IRS agent, right? So I'm sitting there thinking to myself, okay, tax manager, I have five years of experience.
00:04:07
Speaker
How am I going to learn everything I need to know, right? i I've just done basic returns, started getting into the more complex ones.
00:04:18
Speaker
So powwow right in that meeting. And the next day I was signing up for Northern's MST classes. And literally they started two weeks later. So it was like the perfect time of just everything falling into place, the opportunity to basically you know, step aside from doing all the ah audit stuff and accounting stuff and just focus purely on tax.
00:04:42
Speaker
And that was like the key, you know, pivotal moment where it was like, hey, like everything's kind of fitting together and haven't looked back since. that's great, Kelly. I mean, when you have those moments where, you know, you're pulled into the managing partner's office and yeah, i mean I'm sure you were freaking out. Like, what did I do wrong? Is this the end of the road? Right. All the those things go through your head. Right. And, and it's like, instead of anything being bad, it's like, Hey, we want you to take the baton. We want you to be a manager here. We want, we see a future here. And then from there you have that and you're just kind of jumping into an MST program in Northern and in Really, i mean, your entire professional career takes off from there in a direction that whether you wanted to or not, this is where you're headed. And and that's amazing. So, like, i always love those moments where people have that defining moment of like, you know, and it's usually an uneasy moment, you know, where people kind of figure it out. And again, it doesn't mean everything's perfect in that moment. But you start to wonder, hey, I can do something with tax because obviously you've already determined up to that point, like you kind of like preparing tax returns, right?
00:05:51
Speaker
Kind of digging in, figuring it out. So there is something about that that maybe is not for everyone else out there as we know. Yeah, I think um the scary part with any of those types of decisions is really is like, yeah, can I do this?
00:06:04
Speaker
Right. And what's it going to take? And, you know, having mentors like that. And that's, I think, how you and I as well try to lead in our department is helping encourage people and seeing that potential in them and giving them that extra like you got this, you know, kind of assistance.
00:06:24
Speaker
Right. I always tell people it's public accounting is hard. Tax and public accounting is extremely difficult because there's a lot of things to understand, especially a firm like ours, where we have people that are a little bit of generalists, where they're learning about business tax, individual tax, maybe some trust in his estate, just a little bit of everything. And so that's a lot thrown at a young person. So it takes time and they need support for sure.
00:06:49
Speaker
Now, you've you've had a very steady, thoughtful way of approaching tax issues I've seen. And then was that something that developed naturally or did you obviously go with your early experiences or how did that shape for your work today? Because obviously you have a very steady approach to how you handle work, stress, and even just you know the department in general. So where did that come from?
00:07:12
Speaker
Yeah, I think um a lot of my, ah I guess, leadership skills and stuff has just been from watching, watching others, right. And, and learning from others.
00:07:27
Speaker
I think that's one area and I will probably hit on this later in the profession that i wish I would have gotten sooner is some of those soft skill leadership type skills, situational leadership, ah even like supervisor or manager training,
00:07:45
Speaker
I feel like a lot of people don't get that until later on in their career. And I think a lot of those skills can help the younger staff just, you know, be more be more confident, help them with more decision-making, you know, processes and and whatnot. But I've always kind of taken the mindset, like, you know, we talk about pressure and, you know, making these decisions during tax season.
00:08:09
Speaker
um To me, pressure doesn't
Managing Tax Season Stress
00:08:11
Speaker
mean panic. It's really focusing on what matters most and just leading the team with transparency, right? And making sure everybody knows exactly what they're supposed to be doing top down.
00:08:23
Speaker
um We have a really great team. And when things come up, I think the the key steps are clarifying those priorities, like, you know, making a list and and acting right away, collaborating, right?
00:08:36
Speaker
one person doesn't know how to do everything right i'm i'm not the expert on on everything i can admit it um but bringing the team in and finding those best solutions i think um One, one TED talk ah by Daria Long. She's an ER doctor who shares her framework on navigating and taking back control when we put ourselves in what we would call crazy busy mode.
00:09:04
Speaker
um So like really totally getting out of that mindset. And I think, you know, before I saw this, I i would say I would react that way. Right. and I would just get stressed out and you know things are not going the way they're supposed to go trying to like reframe and and put yourself into that situation that even today when clients call or staff call you they always say i know you're so busy Right. And so it's trying to tell them, stop saying that. Right. I'm not busy. I can help you.
00:09:38
Speaker
But what's cool about this talk and what helps us kind of like reframe it in our minds is when we are in that crazy busy mode. running around, we've got so much to do.
00:09:50
Speaker
The stress hormones that actually get produced from like a medical you know perspective don't actually allow you to be able to react in the way that you really can, right? As far as being able to handle the the busy stuff. you know, CPA firms were not doing brain surgery, right? But if you think about it from that ER perspective, anything that comes in the door, they have a methodology, they're in ready mode, you know, they're not afraid of it.
00:10:22
Speaker
And I think that's the approach that I've tried to take is, you know, tax season is coming, we've got lots of things that we're responsible for. um During this, during this time, there's going to be lulls and very, very busy times. And it's really just knowing and taking taking that by the horns and and not being afraid to just run into it.
00:10:44
Speaker
That's great. i love that. I mean, that's, those are the things that, you know, define us along the way and shift that mindset to how do we, how do we see things differently? and And you're so right. Sometimes people call them like, I know you're busy, right? They lead, it's the lead in comment. Exactly. And, and yes, I guess there's times we're busy, but we're not too busy. We're answering the phone. We're, we're, we're responding to you. Therefore I'm not too busy. Right. So it's, is. Yeah.
00:11:11
Speaker
And if we and we think of our our firm and CPA practice during tax season as an yeah ER room, right? We're triaging, right? We're taking what's the red, what's the life-threatening? There's nothing life-threatening, right, in our in our in our world, but it is to somebody, right? To maybe that client that needs something right away.
00:11:31
Speaker
And it's really prioritizing those, right? And and coming up with a plan, right? And i think what we've done really well is kind of put a plan, put a plan in place to have, have expectations for those crazy things. And putting that plan in place also helps you not to have to make decisions because it's already set.
00:11:55
Speaker
We already know two weeks before the March 15th deadline that we're going to extend every partnership that hasn't been done yet. That's just in Illinois because Illinois is due in April, right? So we already have that in place. We're not rushing on the last day trying to extend returns.
00:12:12
Speaker
So those are some examples of things that you can do to just like plan ahead of time. Yeah, and I think, I mean, using that term of an ER r during tax season, and triaging, I mean, you know, every day has got different times where certain things arise to a more significant, attentive level versus things that are a little bit more on the back
Motivations and Lifelong Learning
00:12:33
Speaker
burner. They're all important. They all have to get done. But where do you need to prioritize to get things done? So very important there.
00:12:40
Speaker
Now, if you could talk to your younger version of yourself, go back to even before you had that manager conversation. or even going back to when you started off at 40 Brown, what do you think you would think was the most proud moment to see yourself as a professional in your journey? If you become like, what would you say to yourself now?
00:13:02
Speaker
My younger self could see me now. I, I would hope they would be amazed. um I would say growing up but You already mentioned that I'm one of one of actually I'm actually one of six kids. I have an older brother and then there's five of us girls. I was the second oldest.
00:13:20
Speaker
um I was really quiet um over over the summer. My husband and I were going through our old like bins of all of the stuff from our childhood, kind of like looking through stuff like do we want to keep this or not? And my mom had put together this whole big book of every single report card.
00:13:41
Speaker
and newspaper clipping that I had from like kindergarten all the way to college. And that was like one of my gifts, my college present. I never actually went through it all. So I spent some time and I'm going through and and early on, it was a lot of comments about, you know, Kelly needs to come out of her shell or Kelly, you know, has a few friends and doesn't like to participate and stuff. So I would say, you know, from that perspective, looking back,
00:14:08
Speaker
I I honestly was never one that was like super outgoing. And I'd say even today, you know, you've you've kind of got like your natural style of how you are and then the one that's expected for the role that you might be in.
00:14:20
Speaker
Right. I am a little bit more on the introverted side, but. I have no problem in a room full of partners speaking my mind or in a client meeting leading leading the discussion. And I've built up so much confidence in that area that I think that's like probably my my biggest achievement.
00:14:42
Speaker
Yeah, I love that. I think that, i mean, and to see, you know, that journey and and you you said it, you know to be very proud of yourself. i mean, because when you take a step back and look at the journey, right, even if it's just a couple of years, you go, wow, you know, that development because of what you are doing, dealing with not only internal in the firm, the employees, the partners, but also outside with clients and everyone else.
00:15:06
Speaker
It's lot there. So, Now, a lot of tax professionals stay in this field for various reasons along the way, right? Some love the technical challenge. Some love the client relationships.
00:15:16
Speaker
Some love the puzzle that is tax and tax planning, right? What is it for you? What is your why behind the work you do?
00:15:26
Speaker
I just truly love helping people. I mean, serving our clients. Um, ah The other day, a client asked me a question on some of the new ACA rules that are coming through in 2026. And i I didn't know the answer off the top of my head, told him I'd get back to him. But he he kind of said, I'm surprised you don't know the answer. You usually know everything off the top of your head. I think, you know, that was that's been something for me, too, is just, you know,
00:15:55
Speaker
Lifelong learning, you know, digging into everything. um There's something that you learn every single day that's new in this profession. i think that's what keeps it definitely interesting for me. And like what I would explain to like your younger staff is like, wow, you've been You've been in this practice for you know almost 30 years.
00:16:14
Speaker
Exactly what you're saying. Like, why? Why do you still want to do this? Right. um I think for me, it's using the knowledge that we have to save taxes. um I try to tell everybody, you know, every every.
00:16:29
Speaker
thing that I wish I would have done sooner, right? It's like staff meetings or client meetings, you know, taking advantage of Roth IRAs, for example, you know, if young kids do it, like, don't wait, don't wait, just do it. That's one thing I wish I would have started sooner, right? So just helping people save and plan for their future, preserving their family legacies and The client relationships in this business, I mean, feel like family, right?
00:16:57
Speaker
um So i've just I've just had like the the best experience. And I also have like in my in my family. So out of my sisters, there's there's five of us, right? One is a nurse and the rest of us are all CPAs.
00:17:12
Speaker
I'm the only one that's in public accounting. The rest are doing other financial activities. So it's it's just a great career that offers so many different options for people. No, then that's that's amazing, right? And and everyone's got that you that purpose of why they do things. But, you know, in our profession, um there's constant change,
Adapting to Changes in Tax Law and Technology
00:17:31
Speaker
right? I mean, this year we had new tax law legislation passed July 4th with the HR 1 bill. We know that even in a year where there's not massive tax law overhaul between the Fed and various states, there's always something new that we have to kind of pivot and with our head on a swivel and try to figure out and then not only figure out, but how does technology play a role in that? How does client expectations, how do we develop our staff around that?
00:17:55
Speaker
So what, with all that going on, right, in a given year, some more than others, what keeps you excited about staying in front of it all? I mean, it's it's an opportunity, right? i think that's ah probably about 15 years ago at one of our kickoffs to tax seasons, the tax partner at the time called it opportunity season.
00:18:17
Speaker
Right. It's it's an and that's what it is. I mean, we have the the opportunity to just grab on to those changes, look at it from a consulting standpoint. I think everything that's happening with AI as well is totally shifting how we're going to work in the future.
00:18:34
Speaker
um When i was part of the Elmhurst College mentor group, that's how i initially got introduced to Portie Brown. I've had an opportunity to go back there several times and talk to the younger staff or to the younger to their younger college students coming up. And there is this YouTube video called Shift Happens.
00:18:57
Speaker
And what it is, is it takes you through and it and it and it's totally coming true is like the jobs that are going to be in the in the next five years, we don't even know about today.
00:19:09
Speaker
Like the rapid pace of change that we've seen in the world. Like even just thinking back when I first started, we didn't even have like the cell phones that we have today. We didn't have three screens and the fancy laptops and everything. We were I mean, I still have my 10 key calculator next to my desk. because that's how we did our, you know, adding machine. We weren't using Excel to the degree. So it's been exciting, right, to see just the rapid pace of change, not just in the accounting industry, but in the world.
00:19:41
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it can continue to change. And I think, I mean, even in in the short term, we're going to see AI continue to take over a lot of the applications and software we use and take it to another level to kind of free us up from that advisory standpoint. So we're not so caught up on the compliance aspect, right? So it's it's a great thing. So.
00:20:00
Speaker
But with any with any new tax law, though, we all start at ground zero. Like everybody in the firm, right? Nobody knows what's going on. So I really love, and I know you you as well, like digging in and and reading reading the law, getting the ideas started, following up with the presentations and and speaking to our clients and and looking for those opportunities to to put it into play.
00:20:25
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, even this year, you got ah you got a brand new tax bill. You have things in there that we were expecting, things in there like, you know hey, 174A, we get to expense that now. But with a tax provision like that comes a lot of decision making. Do I go back and amend? Do I carry it forward? Where's all that planning? So you're you're thinking through all that, right?
00:20:44
Speaker
And when it comes out, you're like, okay, well, this is great. We can expense. But then every day that goes further and you read more and you start to develop a process of what that would look like it creates a new meaning to the actual meaning behind that how it was developed so i love that too and i think i think we're seeing more and more of that and everything we think we know about this tax bill by the time we get to april 15th we'll probably have an even a deeper understanding of what it truly means right Now, you play a major role, obviously, in leading our tax department, setting strategy, supporting our staff, managing workflow, helping prepare the firm for each
Empowering the Next Generation of Accountants
00:21:24
Speaker
season. I mean, and just that preparation for tax season is a lot, right? there's we We as a firm do a lot to train and really try to get everybody up to the level where they can be successful.
00:21:36
Speaker
um So that's a lot, though, in a short period of time here. what What about that it continues to energize you as well? I mean, as far as like helping our young staff be successful for the short, I call it a short tax season, but I mean, it's long to some, but it's it's a short period of time, right?
00:21:54
Speaker
Yeah, I think um the the the buildup to tax season is super important. um From my perspective, being that the most of my work is doing review, right?
00:22:07
Speaker
I wanna get the best product. So the time spent with the younger staff at every level, identifying you know where they feel they need more training, is super important.
00:22:19
Speaker
And that's where we need to focus our efforts. We've done at least twice a year, every year, a anonymous, let us know what you want us to train on.
00:22:29
Speaker
You know, we can we can come back and say, here's what we think we need to train on. But if people are really struggling in certain areas, then we want to focus where their needs are. So I think You know, polling the staff, getting their opinions, asking for their involvement as well. So in somebody's review, they mentioned to me that they always struggle with understanding the 1099 consolidated form and all of the special nuances with all the different types of interest and and things like that. So I said, what are you doing to learn on your own?
00:23:01
Speaker
Oh, nothing. waiting Waiting for you to tell me what to do, right? So guess what? I tasked them with putting together a presentation, learning and understanding the areas that they felt they didn't understand.
00:23:13
Speaker
Obviously with me coaching or someone coaching them along. But now they're going to, you know, they're going to retain it better because they're the ones who are doing that presentation. So I think that's also where firms need to get the staff involved at a younger age and doing presentations at our at Portie Brown. When I first started, you were just assigned a topic for a staff meeting and you had somebody that coached you along. But maybe my first one was on HSAs or something.
00:23:40
Speaker
You have no clue what they are, right? But by the time you're done with that presentation, guess what? You're the expert now. So we got to always sometimes, you know, make sure that we're giving that opportunity to people and not just leaving it at the manager level and above.
00:23:55
Speaker
Yeah, I think you said something very, very important that i think a lot of people could take away from there. The the idea that you just don't give what anyone in the firm the answer directly. you You empower them to find the answer. And obviously you're there to set parameters, coach them, maybe help someone mentor them. And no matter what, the idea is You want to know something about this? Well, let's let's figure out how you can learn it, right? And everyone learns differently. But if I tell you the answer, you're probably still not going to learn it very well.
00:24:24
Speaker
And I think that's important. Now, when we talk about firm leaders and and tax leaders all around the country, right? Sometimes there's an underestimate of when it comes to building a strong, successful team.
00:24:37
Speaker
In your mind, what has been the success of Portie Brown and the tax team? like What is the thing that really differentiates us as a tax team from other people, in your opinion?
00:24:51
Speaker
I think that we, especially when we talk to peer groups, the level of importance that we put on continuous development and also, i guess, the the right term in today's world is psychological safety, yeah right, important.
00:25:10
Speaker
Probably at the top of our culture, right? The amount of work and training that we throw at younger staff when they first come in and or in our in our tax departments and expectations um is so different than what it was many years ago. There's just it. everything is is so much more complex, I feel like, right? They're expected to know everything about everything. We're not doing as much write-up work or manual payroll stuff or simple tax returns, right? It's ah a lot more complicated. And the bigger that the bigger we've gotten, obviously, we've attracted larger clients. And so it just brings with with it more complex things. So from a technical skills standpoint,
00:25:51
Speaker
um the real strength comes from, you know, creating an environment right where they feel safe to ask questions, admit their mistakes, and also share their ideas. Like, hey, why are we doing it this way?
00:26:04
Speaker
I think we could do it ah this a different way better, right? And that They're not worried about having to go into that scary partner's office, right? We all had that one growing up in the firm, or maybe you're like, oh, he's going to yell at me again. You know, we don't, we don't have that. It's just not part of the culture and our doors are open.
00:26:25
Speaker
Come on in right? I'm not busy. um I can help you. So I think that along with the mentorship, having something structured, which we've put into place, and having that having that mechanism for knowledge transfer, right? Making sure that we're telling everybody and keeping them involved, having those discussions. The tax rules are always changing, getting them involved, right? Like creating that culture of teaching and challenging them.
00:26:51
Speaker
And then i also would say, you know, just... not underval undervaluing the soft skills portion as well, right? The communication, being adaptive adaptive to different environments and different situations and being on a team collaborating, right? somebody We don't want people just sitting at their desks pumping out tax returns, although during tax season, that's great, right? But those skills are just as critical for long-term development and also within the departments
00:27:23
Speaker
to make sure that we're you know building up that for client relations and and team development. Yeah. And I think you, you know, Corey Brown would also in your leadership, you've always instilled this value of, hey, if you see something, say something like, hey, if you think we should change something in our process, just because we've been doing it five straight years doesn't mean we can't change it. If you got a great idea, no one's going to hear about it if you don't bring it up. Right. Yeah.
00:27:48
Speaker
I think and and giving giving people um the opportunity to learn while at work, but also encouraging people to learn on their
Communication Skills in Accounting
00:27:58
Speaker
own. i think that's one thing that I would call like my personal mission statement is just continuous development for myself.
00:28:06
Speaker
So, i mean, i love Instagram and I follow like all of these different leadership things. And and so a lot of A lot of ways I try to bring back is just just things that I hear that I'm like, that totally makes sense. And it's so easy, right?
00:28:21
Speaker
um So just encouraging that along the way. i also think with the continuous development, with that specifically specifically on the tax side, is getting people to understand why they're doing things a certain way and to also be able to communicate those tax concepts that are complicated to a client in a non-complicated way, right?
00:28:46
Speaker
um Case in point, i was a little disappointed with several interviews that we had this summer for, we're looking for some middle-level tax manager people and try to, you know, everybody can talk the talk, but try and ask them some tax questions, right? To really say, hey,
00:29:03
Speaker
you're you want to be a tax manager you should know some of these easy ones so i call them my my softballs right the easy you should be able to answer this no problem and some of these mid-level people i would take their approach i'm a client asking a question can you explain this to me and some of them would just flop i don't know if it was you know it wasn't at the beginning of the interview it was towards the end but it was just that nervousness of having to answer a question So I really feel, you know, in today's world too, we're preaching it to the staff, pick up the phone, just give me a call.
00:29:39
Speaker
I don't want to, you know, do all of this back and forth via email. So those communication skills are just going to be super critical going into the future for anybody. Yeah, no, I think that's in very, very, very important stuff to take away. And, you know, just because you can talk one on one, you still got to talk to a client that you may not know very well and get to know.
00:30:00
Speaker
And they're going to come with all kinds of questions. And they may be because they were into a party at their neighbors and their neighbors said, you don't have to pay tax on this particular type of income. And then they come to you with a question and they expect you to know the answer.
00:30:12
Speaker
Right. So a lot of that. Now, a lot of professionals, especially our newer staff, but it could be anybody, though, struggle with confidence in such ah complex area like tax, right? i mean, like we've talked about.
00:30:25
Speaker
What advice do you give people who are talented but doubt themselves in this process? Like, how do you help them see that, you know, maybe it's just the self-confidence they need to kind of get over because they're smart enough to understand that it's just that confidence? Yeah.
00:30:39
Speaker
I think um don't be afraid to just ask questions. I think that's probably and the the best advice anybody can give. You know, you're not expected to know everything.
00:30:52
Speaker
um And at the point that you're given an opportunity, don't shy away from it.
00:31:02
Speaker
There are also, I think, on the side of... ah people feel like people feeling that they're not ready. So i would use an example recently of someone that's coming up within our tax department that we're asking now to review, let's say, advanced returns.
00:31:24
Speaker
And the discussion started off with, I don't feel like I'm ready. I don't know if I'm ready. Right. And what we need to do as leaders is from that encouragement standpoint and say, well, guess what? At one point in time, i wasn't I didn't think that I was ready either.
00:31:41
Speaker
Right. And kind of relate to them at that level. But there's one one thing that I really like is is um ready isn't a feeling. It's a decision.
00:31:53
Speaker
Right. So you have to have that mindset of, hey, I can do this. You know, I know how to prepare advanced returns. Can I review them? Why not? Right. What's holding me back from ah from that mental barrier standpoint?
00:32:06
Speaker
So I think those like having those discussions and encouragement and just and just simply saying, like, you know, it's not a feeling and like you got this. I have faith in you.
00:32:17
Speaker
Right. I got your back. I think people feel that safety. Right. That they're not just out on on the on their own, um that they're. being helped along the way, I think definitely will help them with their confidence. The other thing that we started doing as well with our manager meetings this past year is making sure that the staff are recognizing maybe like on a weekly basis, what's what's a weekly win?
00:32:44
Speaker
right? Constantly in our environment and in tax, especially is, oh, I prepared a tax return. Here's all the things you did wrong, right? making sure that we're that we're combining the good with the, here's the things that need correction. But I've had some really good success with that celebrations of a weekly win, or i know in one of our offices, um they have ah a positive you know thing at the positive per day that they that they write on a little board. But it's just trying to, you know, make sure that people are recognizing, hey, I am making improvements. I am making progress. Whether they're trying to work on a soft skill or time management or organization or it's technical in nature, like, what did I do good this week? What can I feel ah that I accomplished? And I think, you know, doing some of those small things can make a big difference over time.
00:33:37
Speaker
that That's so important. And i think I think the more everyone feels that, then that confidence builds, which then and makes learning a little easier and more fun, to be honest. so yeah and And it's that culture we've created of helping people feel comfortable within the complexity of this profession.
00:33:56
Speaker
Now let's shift. We got tax season coming up. um Some people like to talk about it. Some people are like, it's like a estate planning. Please don't bring it up. Right. With that being said, it's really a lot of coordination, a lot of training that goes into kind of setting this tone, setting the stage for it.
00:34:12
Speaker
But when, when this tax season kicks off and everyone kind of just starts to, you know, ramp up with the client work and the sense of urgency, what are some of the more common pitfalls you've seen people fall into early in the tax season?
Effective Tax Season Management
00:34:24
Speaker
They kind of like maybe be a detriment to them out of the gate.
00:34:28
Speaker
Yeah, I think one of the things that I've learned over the years is that's helped me the most is setting deadlines with your clients, giving them the expectation of when you're going to work on their stuff. If you just say hey, tax time, give me your stuff when you when you're when you're ready.
00:34:49
Speaker
when are they going to get it to you? Like two weeks before the deadline and then they're calling every day. Hey, where's my, so you know, where's my tax return at? So I think the biggest thing people can do is just start planning early, um giving clients the expectations of you don't get your tax stuff in by a certain date. We can't promise that we're, we're going to get it done.
00:35:09
Speaker
I think this season and more in, you know, more than ever because of the changes with the tax law, I already know that we're gonna be behind going going into it out of the gate, right? So every firm leader really needs to say, how are we gonna make this go smoother, right? Plan for the worst.
00:35:30
Speaker
from the perspective of not having the tax software up to date, you know, maybe we're waiting on state forms or federal forms to get done, but what can we do to make sure that we're just front loading everything as much as possible?
00:35:41
Speaker
couple of things like that we did differently last year is we just, Made it a point, any cash basis rentals. Why are we waiting? right we we A lot of those we can get done in the first two weeks of of the month of January.
00:35:56
Speaker
So we made a consorted effort to get a list together and and hold the the the clients accountable to get us their stuff. And it worked worked really well and we're hoping it works even better this year. But I think, you know, kind of putting things into different buckets of when you can get things when you can get it done along with setting those client expectations and just giving them a drop dead date that um can can move mountains for a lot of firms.
00:36:23
Speaker
Yeah, no. I mean, again, right. And i I know a lot of people, when I have this conversation with people, they're they're immediately thinking, oh, it's going to be the worst tax season ever. And then they'll tell you why they think it is. and And we all know that we can only control certain things, right? We know new tax bill.
00:36:38
Speaker
We know that there was a government shutdown for a long period of time. We know that draft forms and instructions are taking time to come out with Clarity on what we're supposed to do, right? We know that the states will then take their time to make their decisions. And then the software vendors that have to program all that take time. So, yes, the bottom line is we we expect tax season to be a little bit more bumpy, especially to start.
00:37:04
Speaker
But like you said, I think it's so important. You know, you know, what can you get done? What can you control and keep that positive energy? Because, you know, the team, the staff, they're they're looking towards the leaders to go, hey, are we good? And where should we be all stressed out? Right. And I think that's important.
00:37:23
Speaker
And also, you know, i think any of us that were in practice when COVID hit, we can survive anything, right? I think that was that was that was the the craziest of all, you know, left every single day something new was coming up and and having to pivot. So I think this season will be off to a rough start, but I'm hopeful. I think that's all all that we can all that we can be in. And like I said, just...
00:37:48
Speaker
Just set yourself up to plan. So then you've got a clear, you're not making decisions right on the fly. You've already thought it through what could go wrong. so Yeah, 100%. And I think setting the client expectation is key.
00:38:02
Speaker
Now, on an inward standpoint, we're talking to the staff, we're talking to people, managers, whatever level, right? Are there specific tools or systems or habits you think are important for them to kind of figure it on their own, but to really give them that empoweredness to feel like, hey, I can be successful, even with all this going on?
00:38:21
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's just just going back to um keeping keeping track of what's what's a priority, right? From that yeah ER example that I used before um and and staying up to date on on the new tax law stuff. um What we've done internally as well is So everybody's not having to learn it on their own.
00:38:45
Speaker
you know We've got a team of team of staff that are pushing out the updates and we've scheduled we've already pre-scheduled check-in meetings and everybody's calendars already, right? For several days in January to have the opportunity to update everybody as we're going along. We've got a central a nice central yeah SharePoint center center point location where we've got everything tax related. So everybody should have everything at the tip, you know, at the tips of their fingers, um hopefully in a timely manner is the goal.
00:39:21
Speaker
Right. No, right. Very important things that now is the time to start thinking through and planning. Not now in February comes along the way, because it's almost too late. But in your experience, is there that is there one small thing, maybe sometimes something that's small and overlooked that actually makes a huge difference during busy season that you know that you've developed or maybe that matters to you that you thought, hey, this it might be small, maybe be irrelevant, but makes a huge difference in how you get through things?
Balancing Work and Life
00:39:52
Speaker
um
00:39:53
Speaker
I honestly would say taking a break. like not just sitting at your desk working all the, you know, all day through all the all night. um You need that chance to like reset.
00:40:07
Speaker
I think sometimes staff forget to do that. So making sure that you're taking your lunch break or taking ah taking a break during during parts of the day just to refocus.
00:40:18
Speaker
I think is one thing that's really helped me. um Several years ago, our firm actually signed on to the Calm app. And we've been able to use that as a a tool for our staff to have access to also for their families. And in the last two years, I've i've done a better job. I'm still working on it of using the meditation.
00:40:44
Speaker
And that's kind of helped me as well. So like when I'm driving home, ah Not the not at late at night, but when I'm driving home, I'll turn on the meditation music and or a a session and listen through. And that just helps, I think, kind of recenter my folk you know focus.
00:41:01
Speaker
um the other The other part that I've had hard time falling asleep at night sometimes as well. Like you get home and your mind is just thinking about all the things that you have to do tomorrow. ah The call map has the sleep stories. So I've mentioned that a couple of different meetings that I really love. And it Listening to those as well, it just kind of helps turn off the noise a little bit.
00:41:22
Speaker
So those are some things personally that I've done that I think have have really helped. um In the past, we've had some partners monitoring staff time, like as far as like, are you working too much and sending them home?
00:41:39
Speaker
Right. When you get to that point where you're working so many hours over what's what's expected, you lose your efficiency, you you lose your productivity. you're You're just not thinking the same way. So you just need that chance to recharge. So being mindful of that and helping each other and recognizing when when people can can take advantage of that.
00:42:00
Speaker
Yeah, and I think these those are some incredible golden nuggets there of of how you can deal with things. Because yes, you could sit there and grind away for eight hours, 10 hours, 12 hours, whatever the number is, go home and just feel like your mind is still computing tax returns, right? yeah And you're laying there and you're like thinking about, okay, tomorrow I got to get these five things out the door. But at the same time, you're you're you're you're working through a Form 4797 or something. And it's just like,
00:42:29
Speaker
You can't sleep under those situations. So I think the Calm app is, you know, that is a phenomenal tool to be able to say, hey, how do I relax the mind? How do i go to more of a Zen spot so I can feel like I can let go of the day and everything, at least set yourself up for some sleep, relaxation and for the next day properly. No, so important.
00:42:50
Speaker
And from a leadership standpoint, it's a pretty inexpensive add-on fringe benefit for the staff if they want to use it. My husband, I would say, even even signed up for it and enjoys it. So definitely something to look into.
00:43:05
Speaker
That's awesome. No, that's great. Now, you bring a lot of positive energy, and I'm sure a lot of people see that, right? And you bring a lot of consistency to the tax department. um And so how do you keep your motivation strong throughout the year? i mean I mean, obviously, you want everyone to be successful, but sometimes when you're trying to get everyone to be successful,
00:43:27
Speaker
it's it's a lot of lifting that you're doing on your own. So, you know, what do you do to so continue besides taking small breaks in the call map? Are you trying to figure out a balance there as well? Because it's a lot, right?
00:43:38
Speaker
Yeah, I would say um I've been trying to get better at the work-life integration. I wouldn't say work-life balance. It's an integration, especially as a leader in the firm and an and an owner, right, as a partner. I want to make sure that the team's still working and gets gets what they need even when i'm I'm gone, right, on a vacation or something like that. But um I would say i i do try to disconnect.
00:44:06
Speaker
um It is difficult, um but usually, you know, i've I've been doing a pretty good job. So i would I would encourage people to do that. um No, I think honestly, I just time of time goes by so quickly these days that I just I feel like the the motivation for me is just is just seeing people successful.
00:44:28
Speaker
That's awesome. Now, outside of work, which is another area where you're not working on tax returns and and tax codes and all that, you know you love to fish. um You even love to be a photographer um and spend time outdoors. um How important are those outlets for maintaining that balance and positive perspective, in your opinion?
00:44:49
Speaker
Imperative. Yes. Super, super, super important. um Summertime is ah fishing. My husband and I have his and hers kayaks that we use for fishing. and We also bought a boat a couple of years ago. So just spending that time outside.
00:45:05
Speaker
um i love my backyard. we've We've put in ah a nice fire pit and seating areas and such. And for photography, just... i've got tons of birds and animals running around in the backyard and whatnot. So just, just for me is just that connecting to nature and being outside. i don't even have to be talking to my husband. We could just be out fishing. He's off in one corner. I'm in the other and just, just having fun.
00:45:34
Speaker
So Kelly, obviously we've talked about, you know, the importance. I mean, you started off at Portie Brown coming in as a young staff who knew probably nothing about except a few basic things about accounting. And then you've grown over the years into a, not only a manager, but now lead tax partner, but also someone who has great in-depth knowledge of tax code, of regs, but also leading a department and obviously being able to make sure our clients are taken care of in a Great way.
00:46:05
Speaker
With all that being said, though, younger professionals and people earlier in their career, they feel guilty at times stepping away from their work, meaning, you know, to take that break, they feel like they just got to keep that pace that they presume other people are doing. What would you tell them about making space for themselves?
00:46:22
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's super important to avoid burnout, right? Is is not to be having the expectation of having to work 24 seven, right? um Family comes first.
00:46:35
Speaker
I think that family in your life comes first in your health. um I think there's a few staff where, you know, we always feel good when people say, oh i want to put in more hours. I want to contribute. we already talked about how that reduces your production, ah productivity and your efficiency and whatnot. And you just need that break.
00:46:54
Speaker
um And with COVID, we've also got now a different work environment, right? We've got more people working remote or having ability to take a break, right? Step away, go to their kids basketball game, then hop back online at home. We're not you know confined to our office space. So I think it just gives people a lot more flexibility as well. But you need to have that recharge. You need to have that distinction between, okay, I'm a I put in my time and I'm not going to basically, you know, kind of kill myself or get super burnt out. And with some of the younger staff, we have seen that where they they want to prove themselves, right? They're like, I want to work the most hours or I want to like want to be at that level. We are not judging our staff.
00:47:41
Speaker
and so in giving them awards for working the most hours, right? We're we're trying to give trying to help them, you know, peel off and delegate some of the work that they have to others. So they're not working the the extra overtime during that period of time. So I think it really just needs to be that communication of like,
00:47:59
Speaker
As you grow up, you know, as you get further along in your career, there is an expectation that you are going to have to work a little bit more hours at certain periods of time, right? Tax department people, we got to put in the hours close to the deadline. um But that shouldn't be your, you know, overall goal to be the highest in the hours mark. I think that just needs to be the mind shift in the industry and for the leaders at the top to push that down, even for ourselves.
00:48:24
Speaker
I think internally, right, Mark, we've we've done that with a few part with a few partners saying, hey, you know, you're working a lot more. Let's shift some of that around. It shouldn't be one person's responsibility to carry all that weight.
00:48:37
Speaker
We've got to be a team. That's right. Now, as you look ahead, what gives you optimism about the future profession?
Future Opportunities in Accounting
00:48:47
Speaker
Like I said before, opportunity, right? I think the the compliance part of things is shifting, right? We're looking at more advisory um opportunities. I wish I had a second degree in computer knowledge, right? Computer science to understand how these how AI works. but We're seeing so many exciting things happen, even on our so software platform technologies with APIs and out and ah OCR capabilities and ai potentially preparing tax returns, which I witnessed a demo over the summer.
00:49:23
Speaker
Like, that's pretty cool, right? Do we want to be data entry people? No, right? We want to use our brains to to actually analyze that data and help consult with our clients. So I think, you know, from the accounting standpoint, the industry is going to change substantially, even even I think over the next five years.
00:49:44
Speaker
We're already seeing it happen today. Awesome. some All right, Kelly, we'll finish today with the lightning round. So just one quick answers. First thing that comes to mind, there's no right or wrong answer, as you know. So I'll just.
00:49:57
Speaker
So first question is coffee or tea during tax season. Ooh, I used to drink coffee that didn't taste like coffee um because I'd put too much creamer in it. So I've actually cut out all coffee.
00:50:11
Speaker
So I'm pretty much just water. Nice. Same with me. Early mornings or late nights? ah The older I've gotten, I would say early mornings. Got it.
00:50:22
Speaker
What's your favorite tax form? Which is a weird question. but That is a weird question. um i love them all. I can tell you what my worst tax form is. Sure. The Illinois 4562. That is Jason from our firm. Him and I, it's like our nemesis form. But the software, sometimes it never calculates correctly.
00:50:45
Speaker
That's crazy. Yes. Yes. I hear you. Now fishing. You like to fish at sunrise or sunset? Oh, we're kind of all day fishing. Okay. doesn't nope No preference. When it comes to photography, do you like to photograph nature, people, ah architecture, animals? What is it?
00:51:06
Speaker
Mostly nature and the squirrels and birds and hawks and coyotes in my backyard. And what's the most underrated skill in public accounting, do you think?
00:51:20
Speaker
I would actually say probably in life, the most underrated skill is listening. Probably active listening, listening to understand what somebody say. we We're always in a constant want to give the answer to everybody. Yeah.
00:51:36
Speaker
Oh, that's awesome. Well, Kelly, this has been outstanding. Thank you for sharing your story, your insight and your perspective, your leadership, your calm, your commitment to such to make a difference is huge, not only at Portie Brown, but in the accounting profession.
00:51:50
Speaker
And, you know, you remind us today that technical excellence isn't only part of the work. The rest comes from how we lead, how we prepare, how we listen, how we show up for the people around us. And I think those are some really, really important things.
00:52:03
Speaker
And to everyone listening, as you gear up for this upcoming tax season, take Kelly's advice to heart. Preparation matters, right? Communication matters. Speak up. Perspective and balance matter. Invest in other people because by investing in them, you're shifting work away from you to them, empowering them to feel like they belong. And then in return, they'll do the same thing.
00:52:25
Speaker
And above all, finding that meaning in the work that carries us through the rest of the year, which is important, right? Like Kelly's journey from coming into the profession to, you know, being a great tax partner. So if this conversation gives you that even one idea, one habit or a mindset shift,
00:52:42
Speaker
to bring in a tax season, then I would say just use it, build on it and share it with your team, because I think Kelly gave us some incredible ideas that we can bring back to our teams. So this has been Tax News Now.
00:52:53
Speaker
Stay focused, stay ready and stay intentional. Keep learning, keep leading. We'll see you on the next episode. Thanks, Kelly.