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Episode 423: Interview with former Sounders GM Garth Lagerwey
90 Plays2 years ago
Garth Lagerwey spent eight mostly very successful season with the Seattle Sounders. On Sunday, he makes his return as the President and CEO of Atlanta United. As he did regularly when he was with the Sounders, Lagerwey was very gracious with his time when he met with us on Wednesday. We talked about his transition to Atlanta, what he has liked about Leagues Cup and what he thinks of the roster he left the Sounders and Craig Waibel.
Producer's note: Jeremiah had some audio difficulties and as a result doesn't sound so great. We apologize.
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Transcript
Sponsorship and Introductions
00:00:00
Speaker
This episode of Nos Arietes is sponsored by Full Pull Wines, a Seattle-based wine retailer and proud sponsor of Nos Arietes since 2011. Full Pull was founded in 2009, is based in Seattle, and is owned and operated by longtime sounder supporters. They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, the Pacific Northwest.
00:00:21
Speaker
Hey, this is Christian Roldan. And Jordan Morris from the Seattle Sounders Football Club. And you're listening to... There's no study at this. Thanks to Watson's Counter for sponsoring this episode. Located in Ballard, Watson's Counter is your neighborhood specialty coffee shop, brunch spot, and now, coffee roaster. Sourcing exclusively high scoring coffees, Watson's Counter has started their coffee roasting project to showcase amazing coffees grown around the world. Their first featured coffee is the beautifully complex washed Ethiopian Odola.
00:00:50
Speaker
Follow them on Instagram at Watson's Counter to keep up with all the upcoming releases or check out their website at www.watsonscounter.com. Whether you want to stop by for your daily coffee to go or sit down for delicious Korean inspired brunch, Watson's Counter has got you covered.
Garth Lagerwey's Role at Atlanta United
00:01:18
Speaker
Adi at this, the Sounder at Heart podcast. We are joined by a very special guest, someone that you know very well, Garth Logaway. What's your new title? Is it President of Atlanta United? What is your actual title? It's President, CEO or CEO and President. I never remember which one's supposed to come first, but I think it's CEO and President of Atlanta United. Okay. Well, it's a good sounding title either way.
00:01:47
Speaker
Uh, it's, it's, I guess it's what was I'd say I was, I was the president of soccer. So that's really, really simple, really simplified that we have. Still a mouthful, but, but, uh, yeah. But if this sounds like you get CEO in there and that's like.
00:02:03
Speaker
Yeah, those are those are the big that's that's where the, that's where the fun starts right you get to be a C-suite. It's yeah and as you know it's less about that but it was strategically for me, it has been a really neat transition because now I'm over the business as well as over the soccer, and to have that insight and, and also be part of an NFL organization, where you have, you know,
00:02:26
Speaker
insight into events in the stadium and a $2 billion asset that you're working off of to monetize. It's a different project and that part's been really, really fun. So along those lines, now that you've gotten your hands dirty a little bit, you've been in the job for six months or so, what's been the biggest difference and what are some things that you're getting to do at Atlanta that you just weren't really able to do in Seattle?
00:02:55
Speaker
I mean, all everything on the business side, you know, from management budgets to, I mean, I'm trying to break down the most basic level it's in Seattle, I would have to wait to see what resources were allocated to the soccer team. And here in the more strategic role, you're able to say, I want to allocate such and such efforts toward driving revenue.
00:03:16
Speaker
And then I'm going to direct the revenue into A, B, and C on the soccer side. So it's still a shared enterprise. We share taking staff and corporate partnership staff and merchandising staff. So it's not that simple, but it's really being involved in that stuff that really gives you just a degree of insight. And it was really important to me that I keep learning in my career.
00:03:40
Speaker
And it really is an opportunity for growth in the sense that the two folks that I work with most directly, Rich McKay is the CEO of Arthur Blank Sports and Entertainment, and 20 years running the competition committee in the NFL.
00:03:58
Speaker
you know, Princeton grad lawyer, like just super accomplished guy with tons of sports executive experience to learn from. Then the other gentleman who's my direct boss, who's the vice chairman of Arthur by Sports Entertainment is Steve Cannon. The guy's number one in this class at West Point was Rand Mercedes Benz and then came over to work for him. He did lots of other things while on the way, but you know, a truly global executive.
00:04:27
Speaker
And just the wealth of experience that those guys have, the number of years they have under their belt, running companies, running sports enterprises. It's been a really cool learning experience for me. And then look, I have lots of those in Seattle as well, but this is kind of a different skill set that I'm working with. And that's been really fun for me in terms of my own growth and development as I try to figure more and more stuff out.
00:04:54
Speaker
So it seems like in sort of like the popular discussion, you still get a lot of credit for the soccer stuff that's going on it, or maybe blame to what's going on with the soccer stuff at Atlanta. In reality, how involved are you with the soccer side of the job?
00:05:11
Speaker
Yeah, so I mean, look, the buck stops with me, right? So I'm responsible for everything to your point, whether that's praise or criticism, it's still going to come my way. Same as in Seattle, same as in Seattle, I'm building a team on the soccer side, and you know, you're going to have scouts and you're going to have data analysts. And, you know, maybe the biggest add is, you know, we have Dimitri Sestanafu butchering the last name, but you can look it up
00:05:36
Speaker
on the website and you know, but Dimitris came over, he ran the CSO committee for the league for 10 years and ran the player department. He's a Harvard trained lawyer. He was just a really, really high level guy. And so he can run all the transactions for us. And that honestly was the single most liberating thing for me to be able to pop up and work on strategy. So now we're still gonna source players in a similar process using scouting and analytics.
00:06:03
Speaker
Carlos will direct that, Carlos Bocaneda will direct that. You got Johnson Spector had her recruitment, you know, you have people in the same roles as the Sounders. But now when it gets to a certain point, then they hand off to Demetrius and Demetrius can execute the transaction. And in, you know, if you're the general manager with the skill set that I had, you know, that's, that's your job, you know, you're in the trenches, you're negotiating, you're managing a visa process, you know,
00:06:30
Speaker
you're just, you know, your fingernails prepare to hear you're in the trenches, you're doing a lot of that stuff. And it's not to say that I do none of that now, but in general, we have folks that can handle that, which allows me then to step away and be strategic. So now the summer transfer window becomes, here's the blueprint I want to get to. So I'm setting the plan in the course of the ship, but somebody else is on the rudder, you know, steering the ship. And so again, my role becomes strategic and it becomes about hiring the right people and putting the right processes in place.
00:07:00
Speaker
to hopefully empower everybody and also to make them successful. So that's it. And, you know, that Carlos and Gonzo sit, you know, on a level together. You know, Gonzalo reports to Carlos, but, you know, that's within the soccer hierarchy. You know, I'm not doing the day-to-day. I'm not going to practice. I'm not, you know, interacting with the head coach on a day-to-day basis.
Life in Atlanta vs. Seattle
00:07:29
Speaker
And so I guess the other aspect of this, how's your family setting and settling in Atlanta? I think my wife's not pissed at me anymore. So, you know, we love Seattle. I never tried to hide that. You know, it was a wonderful place. Wonderful. You know, all my kids know, you know, my oldest is 11. And, you know, that means he was three when he moved
00:07:51
Speaker
to Seattle and you know my youngest was born there so that's all they know. So Atlanta is definitely hotter, there are definitely more churches and you know it's a different culture right. I mean Seattle is a liberal west coast city and you know that's got a different feel than a purple diverse Georgia and there are pros and cons and definitely some of both and so you know moving's hard, moving's hard on a family and
00:08:20
Speaker
you know everyone assures me that you know it makes your kids resilient and I have no doubt that that's true but the process of acquiring that resiliency has some bumps along the way you know what like do I think they'll be better for it I do and I believe that sincerely but you know does that mean it's all smooth and easy to you know at one point our dog was too big to fit in the crate to fly on the size plane you can get from Seattle so my wife drove with the three boys and grandpa and the dog and
00:08:49
Speaker
you know, two weeks and I'm working, you know, 100 hours a week in my new job here, trying to get everything set up on this end. And so it's been a process, man, but it's been fun. It's been a challenge and we're getting adjusted and certainly it'll be nice to be back in Seattle and see lots of familiar faces again. So is the fam coming out with you?
00:09:12
Speaker
They are not able to, because here, this is crazy, for 15 years, between Salt Lake and Seattle, we do the transfer window, right? Always ends first week of August, and then you go take a vacation. There'd be on any of these soccer roles. In Atlanta, though, school starts on the second. So now a transfer window ended, and the kids are in school. So it was like, they would love to come out, but we just started school, all in new schools, obviously. So it just wasn't in the cards for them to be able to make it out this time, which is a bummer.
00:09:41
Speaker
So what was the big buy-off for them? Was it a pool? Was it a pony? Was it an Xbox? What was the thing that you had to buy the kids off with? So, you know, without embracing that as a parental strategy, I will acknowledge that it does work some of the time. What I'll say is,
00:10:01
Speaker
The real estate dollar goes a little bit further in Georgia than it does in Seattle. And so we were able to put in a pool and the kids do like that. And, you know, now conversely, it's a hundred degrees for a month at a time here. So I would say there's more need for a pool here than there might be in Seattle. And, you know, in Seattle, you're never too far from a lake or a river or a stream that you can jump in and go swimming or a sound or an ocean or whatever.
00:10:29
Speaker
But yeah, it's been nice to have the kids of like that. And the rest of its life, it's finding a Taekwondo studio and a soccer team. And my five-year-old, he doesn't know what he's going to do, but I think he's going to be the rough and tumble one of the three. So we'll figure out whether that winds up in prison or in a more
00:10:52
Speaker
productive enterprise, but there are definitely days you feel like it could go either way. Yeah, yeah, no, I'm with you there as a parent myself. But so do you still get to talk? Like, I know one of the things you expressed when you were leaving is that you didn't think you get to talk pop culture, politics, those kind of things as much in the office and and maybe even with your report, your beat writers that you interact with. Is that come to fruition or have you found ways to
00:11:20
Speaker
interject those discussions. Wait, you know how socially awkward I am. Jeremiah said like, I still interject them. The question is just whether or not they're third received or not. And I'm not kidding too. Apparently, I turned 50 this year. And some of my pop culture reference is not that relevant to staff that is
00:11:40
Speaker
25 years old, some of them have not seen all the terrible movies that I've seen him, but I'll tell you this a point of significant pride for me. My 11 year old, who was my, my biggest D&D enthusiast, you know, love my kids so far.
00:11:56
Speaker
long and hard to try to find like a dnd game or parents or whatever and so we started the dnd club here in Atlanta and so he's got right now like eight to ten kids that are coming once a week and they're getting together uh sunday afternoons to play a game so i couldn't be prouder of him that he is you know he's the dungeon master and he's running this game and yeah
00:12:17
Speaker
And so it was a good little entrepreneur opportunity for him, not that they're making any money, but just as an organizing principle. And so we're trying to keep a little bit of that Seattle flame alive and well here in Atlanta.
Impact of Messi on MLS
00:12:31
Speaker
Well, I'm very happy to hear that. Very happy to hear that. So I guess one of the things that you were a big champion of or a big believer of before
00:12:44
Speaker
you left, I guess, yeah, was League's Cup. And this, we're seeing League's Cup, could be a completely different animal this year. What's been your, you know, what's been your observation of League's Cup? I love it. I think it's fantastic. You know, we played, we went out in the group stage.
00:13:03
Speaker
So yeah, you may have heard some of the two. That's, you know, that's not my purview but, you know, we lost a crucial tool and penalties but it was a really cool game Jeremiah, and it reminded me of, you know, of the Pumas match or a play in Leon in the league's cup, you know, back in 21.
00:13:20
Speaker
where you have this multicultural audience and you have this dynamic of kind of friendly rivalry within the stadium and stuff like that. And it really meant basically any play that happened in the game either way got loud, rocket support. And it does make for a fun atmosphere, I think, in which to watch a soccer game. So I got to witness that.
00:13:43
Speaker
I was sure we didn't go as far as we wanted, so didn't put watching the games on TV. What I would say is this. I mean, you know, lots of friends of mine that grew up in the game and stuff like that, but they don't always text when they're watching, you know, Atlanta play Seattle, for example, right? But all of a sudden I started getting these texts like.
00:13:59
Speaker
How cool is it that they're playing these games four days a week and I'm staying up with my kid and we're watching the Mexico against America or Mexico against Canada games? You know this rivalry is really taken and you know it's a total anecdotal, but like I think the first five Mexico against America games at least got ball had a red card, right? Like it was there was that they clearly you know people cared about this game and so you know it's.
00:14:27
Speaker
I think it's been really neat. I think it's a really good way to capture the audience long term. And like, look, as MLS, I think one of the strategies that can work is if we can be everybody's second team. You know, if you're the guy that wants to go to the pub and watch the Premier League on a Saturday, you know, go to a Sounders game, go to Atlanta United game because that's local and you can take your family there. If you're a league MX fan, you know, or you grew up in Mexico and you come here again, go to Atlanta United game, go to Seattle Sounders game,
00:14:56
Speaker
take your kid there, you know, because those are cool, authentic environments and they're really fun, right? And now maybe you can't, you know, people was like, well, you're never going to convert an America fan to Atlanta United fan. I said, that's not the outcome. We don't need to take away someone's culture. We just need to build upon it with the soccer culture. And if we're inclusive and we're diverse, then what we say is we want to try to look like Atlanta, which is a pretty diverse place.
00:15:25
Speaker
And we have this wonderful building, $2 billion building, that's the soccer stadium in the world, where everybody feels safe and everybody feels like they can express their culture. That's probably a pretty successful formula for how we're going to grow this. And I do think that the League's Cup can be an important part of that. I mean, I think it's a really cool idea. Certainly Messi put some rocket fuel behind it.
00:15:46
Speaker
And look, we've gotten into the mainstream media with this though too, right? I mean, is Messi going to win every game for Miami? Maybe he will, but I think he's going to play the toughest defense that he's faced so far in Nashville in the final. I think that's a really good matchup on paper. That's a lot of fun to watch, potentially.
00:16:07
Speaker
Yeah, and you got to experience messy mania up close and personal, right? I didn't go in person to the game we played down there, but certainly painfully watch this kid. It was not our best night against messy. Although he's making a lot of people have not their best night, admittedly. In fact, it almost seems like he cast a spell on defenses where we saw this last night against Philadelphia, where it's like,
00:16:34
Speaker
Are they just not marking him when he doesn't have the ball at his feet? What is going on here? Is there something that you appreciated watching him play your team that maybe you don't appreciate when you are watching him play a random opponent?
00:16:52
Speaker
Well, I give him atomic credit for so far as A, he cares, right? Which is maybe not shocking, but was also not a given. We've had Europeans, aging Europeans come here and obviously South American, but I mean, that's what played in Europe, who have not been 90 minutes engaged, right? Not only is he engaged, but he's wants to play and wants to play the whole way and wants to happen. But the other thing he's doing,
00:17:15
Speaker
is on the field. He's actively coaching his teammates. If he's trying to make everybody, he reminds me of Lidero, honestly, in terms of the immediate impact on everyone around him. He's been a force magnifier for them. The other thing that I think is critical is Busquets. He had a pass against us, but he's had some passes against a couple of teams now where he can basically pick something out anywhere on the field. And so
00:17:40
Speaker
You know, he's not the most mobile guy in the world. So you think, oh, is he going to struggle? But so far, the ball's been able to move for them in a way that has been really tough to defend. And I felt like Philly was almost like experimenting last night. Like, we're going to try this kind of, you know, it wasn't their normal defensive pressing set up all the time, right? They were trying to figure out what do we do with Messi? What do we do with biscuits? How do we line all this stuff up? And I think it'll be interesting. I think that'll be an iterative process until somebody beats him, right?
00:18:09
Speaker
Yeah. So the other thing that Messi has brought is this sort of, you know, idea. He's sort of an idea as much as he is a player that, you know, there is no, there's no player out there that's, that's too unattainable for MLS. If you can get Lionel Messi, the year that he won or effectively the within the year that he won World Cup, who can't you get, right?
00:18:33
Speaker
And I'm just curious, what are you seeing and how does it change your mindset as someone involved in the soccer team building aspect of this? Like how does this change the way you approach that? And is there a danger or what are the possible, like how do you see this changing? Yeah, so look, I'd like to start by heaping some praise on Chris Henderson, a gentleman known to both of us, longtime Seattle's founder.
00:19:03
Speaker
You know, Miami got kicked in the teeth a whole bunch about you know Walt and to be clear, Chris took that job, you know, found out that there's going to be sanctions after he took the job right so it's been literally working with one arm tied behind his back, and now going into the season, they have the possibility of getting messy right they didn't know if he was going to come or not people and people underestimate.
00:19:22
Speaker
Yes, you the tiny player in the world, but this took three years. I mean, that's the full up right and with engagement from literally the owners, you know, of the team to messy in his group.
00:19:35
Speaker
And so what Chris did a really good job of, though, was creating all this cap space and the spots into which they could sign these players. To add six players in a transfer window is extraordinary. There's more to go into it. It's not just Chris. Obviously, if you want to come play for Tata, people want to come play with Messi, I buy that.
00:19:58
Speaker
But this really did an exemplary job, I think, in terms of organizing this and setting the platform for it and really making it possible within the League's rules. So I think that that's one impact of you got to be willing, if you're going to try to pull this off with a summer transfer, to suffer, right? And again, not unlike the process we went through in 16, a little bit where we held resources open for Lidero and
00:20:20
Speaker
signed the best player we could even though that took months, even though we weren't sure he was going to come. So I think there's some reinforcement there that going for that player that's just better than all the other players is worth some struggle.
00:20:37
Speaker
highlights that people will pay for quality. When you look at the number of, I know Apple hasn't released any of the subscriber numbers, but anecdotally seems like, feels like among my friends, more people are watching, people are watching Messi. Hopefully some more people in Mexico are watching through League Cup. And again, that timing, that partnership, I think was really good strategically to introduce Messi in that timeframe, in that competition.
00:21:05
Speaker
So I do think it's going to evolve at least the way people regard the league. And, you know, to your point, I think it shows the potential the league has, you know, that we made this big investment. But to be clear, Miami is not going to lose money on this. This wasn't just a
00:21:20
Speaker
a money dump or we're going to go get a name and market it. You look at the social media increase, you look at the increase in Jersey sales, you look at the increase in tickets, you look at the fact they're opening a new stadium, you look at the increase in sponsorship. All of those are measurable metrics where you can say, hey, yeah, they're paying a lot of money for Messi, but they're making money and that's the encouraging thing. We're talking
00:21:42
Speaker
off camera about the iterative process of sound art art and you know leave an SB nation and what that's like and acquiring paid subscribers I mean it's a new business model right so it might messy and some increased investment might just be a new business model
00:21:58
Speaker
for the league it could be now to be clear messy is one of one you know you're not going to sign another messy there isn't another messy but i do think that there is now some evidence some hard evidence that if you increase the level of play maybe that's by simplifying uh the salary cap maybe it's eliminating um some of the dp buckets maybe it's into some of the tam and the gam and all the stuff that makes the league really confusing to follow i think you know there is some opportunity now to examine that
00:22:27
Speaker
and to see if we can make it more accessible to general sports fans. So now maybe Messi captured a couple folks that weren't paying attention before, and now can we keep them by having a system that's transparent that everybody can understand, and that maybe is moving forward in terms of providing more options, more ways in which to spend money on teams so you get some creative team building. Do you think we'll see any of those changes implemented before next season?
00:22:57
Speaker
I have no idea, Jeremiah, that's ownership level discussions above my pay grade. I figured I had to ask though. As you know, I've been a long-term proponent just of the evolution of the league. I'm an executive, it's not my money. At the end of the day, the people risking the money have to be the ones that decide if that's the way they want to go.
00:23:22
Speaker
I do think that there's, you know, there's now some evidence, some proof so to speak that that that could be a way to go, you know that that you know the the spectrum of the nsl still seems to haunt us in the background from, you know, the 70s 70s 80s I guess.
00:23:39
Speaker
But, you know, it's a new world. And I do think there's some real opportunity for MLS going forward. And, you know, look, I would also add shame on us if we don't take this opportunity now between now and the 2026 World Cup. When you're talking about Copa America and 24 Copa Centenario, obviously had some amazing games in Seattle, right? Messi played and we sell the U.S. in the quarterfinal. It's Ecuador.
00:24:03
Speaker
You know, games are we like we remember where we were games right. I believe it was the most successful commercial enterprise in the history of this country. History this country but soccer competition. Yes, from a summer perspective.
00:24:20
Speaker
So this becomes a massive tournament. Looking for us in Atlanta, Massey is going to play with Thiago Olmada. That's pretty neat for us if we're able to host some games in association with that. Then followed by the Club World Cup. So, you know, obviously if a tournament near and dear to the hearts of Sounders fans and then the World Cup. So we have this literally once in a lifetime ramp to try to, I think we owe it to ourselves to try to get on the ramp and to try to push as much as we can to make this thing as big as we can.
00:24:51
Speaker
Well, I am running out of time here on my end. I did a poor job of scheduling, but I do have I want to get in one sort of sounders question for you. And, you know, we just got through the summer transfer window. The sounders were, I think, the only team who didn't make a move during the summer transfer window.
Soccer Strategies and Transfer Insights
00:25:09
Speaker
And then obviously made it made it a few notable moves. But what do you.
00:25:12
Speaker
Looking at this, and there's a lot of frustration, I think, in the fan base. Somewhat understanding, but also just sort of frustrated that nothing changed during the offseason. What's your assessment of the roster that you left Craig Weibel with? And do you think there's anything that maybe fans don't entirely understand about the challenges that the Sounders face going into this transfer window?
00:25:39
Speaker
Well, I'm going to answer this by speaking through an Atlantic lens. And what I would say is the ability to not have to do a bunch of things is a real privilege. Maybe one that I underestimated because I think I think the last summer that I was with Seattle, I think we also didn't do anything in this. So but you've come to Atlanta and we're trying to institute a little bit different model than what they've had here in the past. But it's been really, really challenging. We have a number of
00:26:07
Speaker
guaranteed contracts over the long term that we don't have flexibility with. We've had to reposition some things and we've been as focused on moving players out as on bringing players in. It's been a really complex enterprise. It's been a lot of work and I think we probably have one more transfer window before we get to the foundation that I want to have to build us for sustainable success long term.
00:26:31
Speaker
you know, what I would say is the Sounders are in really good hands with Craig Weibel. Obviously, he was my right-hand guy the last couple of years there. You know, Adrian Hanna are still one of the most engaged, if not the most engaged owner in the league, you know, very knowledgeable in terms of the workings of the league and the team. You know, you got long-term stability in the organization, so you got a, you know, and you got a vocal, supportive, fan base. So you got all the ingredients you look for to have a successful franchise and
00:27:01
Speaker
Certainly, in moving on, it's given me some perspective on some of the challenges of having to institute a new plan in a new place. Well, Garth, thank you so much for taking the time. I want to wish you the worst of luck on Sunday.
00:27:21
Speaker
but I know you're gonna be, you're making it out here, right? You're gonna- I am. And it looks like you're gonna be greeted to like a beautiful 75 degree summer day that will hopefully make you long for the summers of the Pacific Northwest. But other than that, I hope you, our things are going well for you.
00:27:40
Speaker
Thanks. I appreciate it. It'll be good to be back and see folks and and see familiar faces and you know, hopefully not everybody in the stadium's pulling me when when I walk in. I heard you had to be talked out of like making a pregame speech though.
00:27:59
Speaker
You never know, Jeremiah. You put a microphone in front of me. You never know what's going to happen. But no, it'll be good to be back. And I'll just want to be part of it. And we've had a lot of successful folks come back. And then we've had some really good moments with some of those ex-players and stuff like that over the years. So I'm looking forward to it. And like you said, coming back to Seattle in August, that's about the best time of year you could possibly come back for. So I'm sure it will be.
00:28:27
Speaker
Lovely. You planned it out very well. Exactly. Well, that's that. I have to actually go run to my exit interview with Box Media. All right. And that's a good segue to me just saying thank you for listening to Nozarietes, the Senator Hart podcast.
00:28:49
Speaker
are getting ready to transition to an independent model of media. We are dying to get listener, reader support. You can sign up for a paid subscription. That move is going to happen on Monday, August 21st. And I just kind of want to share that with everyone. So thank you to Garth for doing this. Thank you to our sponsors, Full Pool Wines, Watson's Counter. I am Jeremiah Shan, signing off for Sounder Art. No say at this.
00:29:18
Speaker
Remember, you'll never get alone.
00:29:40
Speaker
If you're interested in hearing the rest of the interview and supporting independent soccer media, head over to nosadietes.substack.com and become a paid subscriber.
00:30:46
Speaker
Let's win another one!