Transcript
Speaker: You're listening to episode 135 of Outnumbered the Podcast, Sleep Logistics. We all know how important sleep is for growing bodies and for sleep deprived moms and dads, but somehow it's ever elusive. We're sharing all our experience, tips and tricks for getting those kids to sleep and to stay that way so that everyone gets the healthy amount of rest necessary. Let's do it.
Speaker: Hello and welcome to Outnumbered the Podcast. I'm Audrey. And I'm Bonnie. We are experienced moms to a combined total of 19 children. In our weekly episodes, we explore relatable topics using our perspectives of humor and chaos. Tune in for advice and encouragement to gain more joy in your parenting journey.
Speaker: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to an episode on sleep, one of our favorite things to do, right, Audrey? Yes. Sleep is the best. And sadly, as a parent, you just don't get enough of it like ever. So we wanted to do another episode specifically about the logistics of sleep. We actually have two other episodes, one on getting the baby to sleep, which we'll link in the show notes, and one about kids and sleep in general, which we did right at the beginning of the podcast. But this one is logistical stuff and tweaking some troubleshooting.
Speaker: So, of course, as we like to do, we are going to start with a funny mom moment of sleep. Oh my goodness, how many stories do we have of sleep getting interrupted or kids doing something insane, right? So I'm just gonna choose one to share with you today, but I remember being asleep and vaguely hearing somebody come into my room and lay down next to me, which happens, you know? And all of a sudden, the next thing I know, I wake up to,
Speaker: And before I can move, puke all over my hair. I'm like, can you not sleep with the foot of my bed and puke on my feet? That would be 10 times more convenient than you. No, nothing like getting woken up with puke in your hair. And I'm like, all right, thanks, kids. So then we had to wake all the way up, shower.
Speaker: What a nightmare. Thankfully, that's only happened once in my mom career. I think maybe I'm a lighter sleeper now. If you're going to come in my bed and you're sick, you're going to bring a bowl with you and you're going to sleep way down there, away from my face. Good times. Getting puked down in your sleep. That's motherhood, man. Yeah. I knew this one lady who shall remain anonymous who, when her kids were sick, always had them sleep in the bathtub.
Speaker: Oh, that's pretty brilliant. I'll be honest. Isn't that brilliant? I don't know that my kids would stay in the bathtub, but I thought I was thinking that was a pretty good idea. Yeah, usually they want to be cuddled, right? Cuddled and comfort. And side note, I think, did I mention this in the Babies in Sleep episode? That one time I was in a hotel and didn't have a safe place for a baby to sleep. The bed was just too narrow or whatever. So, and she needed some quiet. So I stuck her in the bathtub. I laid down a blanket and I put her in the bathtub. She couldn't, she wasn't big enough to move. So she just slept in there. It was dark and quiet and like, huh.
Speaker: Good, good hack. I don't know what the American Academy of Pediatrics would say about that, but, um, you know, we're not going to ask him. We're not going to ask him. Yeah. Okay. So, um, we don't have all the answers regarding sleep. Obviously it's kind of a complex issue when you're not getting enough, but we do have lots of experience getting kids to sleep and helping them stay that way. So we're going to share tips from two different perspectives, um, both as co sleeping families, which is kind of Audrey's expertise.
Speaker: and more independent sleeping family. So that's what we can give you as our experience. Yep. Yep. That's our family's main mindset and what sleep looks like at our house is people sleep together. If you've got your own bed, I mean, even who are you? Are you a part of the family? You're probably the dog. Yeah. Yeah. Nobody would sleep with the dog. So I quit apologizing for being a co -sleeping family a year
Speaker: quite a few years ago just because it works so well for our family. And do I think every family should co -sleep? No, do what works for your family. But that is what works for our family. We have found so many benefits of it. We feel like our kids sleep as good as they do because we sleep together and they sleep together. And so that's what we are. We're a co -sleeping family and we just don't apologize for it anymore. Good for you. Good for you.
Speaker: Yes, sleep is so individual, you guys. And the last grandma that told you what to do and didn't work out for your family and you find yourself frustrated, it's because it just wasn't right for your family and that's totally okay. I will say that with infants, we get it drilled into our head that co -sleeping is evil and terrible and your kid's going to die. And that's just not the full truth. There's quite a bit of research that shows
Speaker: how and why co -sleeping can be safe for all ages. We can include some of that here. We talked about it a little bit in getting a baby to sleep, but you do what's best for your family and sleep is essential for life. It really is. And so if you or your children are not getting enough sleep, then, you know, feel free to change something. Yeah, I want to, yeah, I just wanted to say that sleeping with your baby is dangerous only in America because every other country in the world does it.
Speaker: Well, probably because we have so many dang pillows and blankets in America. Everybody else is sleeping on a mat on the floor. Okay. So our family's main mindset with sleep has always been fairly independent because that's what's worked for us.
Speaker: I could not sleep a week when my first baby was in my room with me, so I'm sure I'd be better now, but that's just kind of how we started off, and we continued that way. We have babies in our room with us in the master bedroom until they're about one. At about six months, I usually move them into the closet because I need a little bit less interruptions. Or my husband, I just want to talk more, and the baby's getting to be a little bit more of a light sleeper.
Speaker: Well, not in their own room because nobody has their own room in my house. We don't have 10 bedrooms, but in with someone else in their own bed. So that's what's worked really well for us. Occasionally, we'll have a kid that really needs someone else to sleep with them. My four -year -old is kind of like this. And so either I will go lay with her for a while or she will sleep with a sibling. And like I said, we're just flexible with whatever works for the kid at the time.
Speaker: Yeah. So we're going to talk you guys through our basic routines for, um, different ages of kids, how to get them to sleep. And we're starting with the very beginning babies and toddlers. And remember we have a whole episode 106 about getting babies to sleep. It's an awesome one. So go listen to that one too. But mine is short and sweet. It's called nurse them to sleep. You guys again, I am just not going to apologize because it works.
Speaker: And it's worked for me for more than 22 years. Um, the only time in recent years when this has come back to bite me in the butt is when, um, I have to go somewhere or be somewhere and it's the baby's bedtime and they're used to nursing to sleep.
Speaker: be like, dang it. If only I could leave my boob behind. No, I know. But I have pumped and left milk behind. And then when my husband and I went on our 25th anniversary trip, my daughter that was sleeping with the baby, he would wake up at four o 'clock in the morning kind of for his, well, I call him baby. He's a toddler. He's a big giant.
Speaker: baby, whatever. She would get up and get him some warm milk in his sippy cup and then that was enough to get him back to sleep. But anyway, if you want to know more about breastfeeding and babies, we do have an episode on that too, 21 and it's a really good one too. But that's short and sweet for me, just nurse them. Yeah. Yeah. Babies love to nurse asleep. Our basic routine for babies and toddlers, I'll start with babies and that is pretty similar, just nursing them until they fall asleep. But eventually I get to where I
Speaker: kind of train them to fall asleep without being nursed because none of my babies have ever done great about staying to sleep after I de -latch. Unlatch? What's the word? And that always drove me crazy to only have them sleep for like 45 minutes and then need me again. And so what's worked well for us is when they're really, really little newborns, I nurse them to sleep. And then as they get to be three, four, five months, I teach them to go to sleep.
Speaker: Like I'll feed them, let them be awake, and then teach them go to sleep without being breastfed. And that has worked really well for us. For toddlers, there's a few extra steps. I always make sure that they've had a snack or drink of water or something before bed because there's less communication, especially if you have a two or three -year -old that doesn't talk very well. That's something to kind of be aware of is sometimes they might be thirsty and they haven't really communicated that. And then we have just a quick little routine of PJs singing a song
Speaker: doing our kisses or whatever and then putting them to bed as far as the independent toddler sleeper is going. Go. One thing I will say that applies to all ages, especially the younger ones, is that we start talking about bedtime about 30 minutes before it happens. So even kids as young as 18 months to will start knowing what bed means and they'll say, Oh, almost time for bed. And then you have a chance to connect before they actually get separated from you. If you choose to do that, if you choose to put your kid in their own crib,
Speaker: And that has really helped my kids transition. It's like, okay, time for bed now. And they go to bed instead of kind of having it surprised on them.
Speaker: Yep, yep. Not a whole lot of kids do good with surprises. Right. Yeah. All right. So moving on to the middle kids. Our basic routine is about 30 minutes before bedtime. We get them a bedtime snack. They use the bathroom. And one thing my youngest kids really love is having someone, and it usually turns out to be an older sister, read them a book. So they read them a book aloud. So like a big chapter book that's kind of interesting. And they just read one chapter a night.
Speaker: And then they love that, get into that, and it's something they look forward to every night. And then they spend a little time reading their Bible and praying, and then they go to bed and get in bed. So it's just kind of a combing, quieting routine before they go to bed. I do have a sneaky self -policing thing I've been doing this summer with my kids, and I shared this earlier on a Patreon episode. You guys should
Speaker: support us on patreon if you don't we always give our patreon followers the best goods so something i'm doing with my kids this summer is i've told them okay your bedtime this summer is nine o 'clock if you are in bed with your lights off at nine o 'clock then your bedtime the next night remains nine o 'clock but if you're not in bed with the lights off by nine o 'clock
Speaker: Then your bedtime the next night is 8 30. Sorry, but that's the way it's going to be this summer. And they're so good at policing themselves and each other. 8 45, 8 45. Guys, guys, guys, hurry. Come on. We got to go. And I don't have to be the main mom yelling at them, reminding them what time it is because they're doing it themselves. And I think that's like the most genius thing I've ever done for a bedtime routine for kids.
Speaker: That is super brilliant. I love that idea. And I will say that when it comes to bedtime, as with everything with children, consistency is key. It's so easy to get frustrated and be like, they're never going to go to bed on their own. But once you start consistently saying eight o 'clock time for bed, eight 30, we're going down now and doing that over and over and over, they stop fighting generally nine times out of 10. They go, Oh, it's that time again. I mean, it doesn't mean they won't put up a stink every, every day, but they will.
Speaker: it will just be another natural routine. Where we get tricky is, where things get tricky is when we are too tired to keep it up, right? And we're like, I don't even want to do it. And then you have to fight the fight every single night. So that's another major dip there.
Speaker: So our basic routine for the Mill Kids, similar to yours, you know, snack bathroom, make sure all those needs are taken care of. Like I said, we talk about it ahead of time, so they're not surprised. And we allow enough time for them to unhurriedly get PJs on a teethbrush. Because if you're hustling them, then they start to whine and complain and whatever.
Speaker: Um, and then I like to ask them what they'd like to do in bed. So make it something kind of fun, right? You're not just going to bed to end the day. It's like, Hey, would you like to read your new book that you got? Hey, you want to listen to an audio book? Hey, can I turn on Alexa and you can listen to your favorite songs? Um, sometimes I even let one of my wild ones has a real hard time going down for bed. So sometimes I'll even let her color in bed for a little bit as long as she doesn't make a mess. Just colored pencils, you know?
Speaker: can't stay in the sheets and that helps her wind down from the day. I will say that we have recently transitioned to sending these middle kids to bed independently, like letting them do it themselves. And I'm talking ages six to 10. And then I go in for
Speaker: kisses and hugs afterwards. So for many years I would take them into bed myself, but we just have too many little ones and then not enough grownups to help. And so either my older kids will help them or I'll say, okay, it's time. Go get yourselves ready. And they've become really good at that. Again, from consistency and knowing that I'm just not available to come put them in their beds, but then I'll come say goodnight and tuck them in a little bit later. Yeah, that's really nice when they get the stage where they can do it themselves.
Speaker: All right, moving on to the teenage years, the teenage transition into Teenage Hood. I'm letting them decide for themselves, right? So I guess what I kind of did is my kids transition to Teenage Hood. It depends. You know, teenagers, their sleep patterns actually change in Teenage Hood. That has actually been documented.
Speaker: tested, whatever you want to say. So like their circadian rhythms actually change a little bit and they do better in the evening and at night. And then they do worse in the mornings and they've got to sleep in. That's actually shown and proven. So one thing I've done for my teenagers is I say, you guys can stay up.
Speaker: Um, after you help get your younger siblings to bed. So once your younger siblings are in bed, go do what you want after afterwards. And I'll say, I'd like you in bed by, you know, 10 o 'clock or whatever, but I'm not going to stay up and make sure you're in bed at that time. You're, you're your own boss known.
Speaker: And so that's what we've done. If they help, they can stay up. Now, I will say that once my teens get older, 16 and above, they've all been working. And so that's like real life. They put themselves to bed at the time that they see that they need to be in bed because they've got to get up, get out of bed and be on the job, whatever that is, the next morning. And so like they're
Speaker: they're making their own decisions on bedtime and they're suffering consequences of not being able to stay awake or function well or whatever if they haven't gone to bed on time. And that's just part of life, isn't it? That they've got to learn to do that for themselves too. So that's kind of how we handle sleep for the teenagers around here.
Speaker: Yeah, a few years ago when my oldest started going through that teen transition, as I call it, I was like, ah, I can't be available for my baby in the morning and then all the way to 10 .30 at night with my teenager. And sometimes the nighttime is when they really want to open up and chat with mom and dad. And I'm like, oh, I'm so tired.
Speaker: But finally, I was like, you know what? They're old enough. I don't have to see him off to bed. I'm going to say I'm going to bed now. Remember, there's no electronics after this time. There's no, you know, and as he gets older, obviously we will, you know, I can.
Speaker: probably even relinquish that restriction. But it's been really eye -opening to see this happen and go, okay, you are responsible for your own life now. And since my oldest started going to school last year, this sleep part has been really, really eye -opening. I love it. His brother and sister will want to stay up later than him and he'll go, nope, I'm going to bed at 9 45. I got to get up early. And I love it. It's fantastic. He wakes up at six o 'clock and he gets his lunch and breakfast ready and he's ready to go out the door. In fact, he comes and wakes me up. Okay, time to go.
Speaker: So it's so great to give them that independence in figuring out what feels good and what doesn't when they get that age.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Because they have to suffer consequences. My, my two sons this summer, um, they're up and gone by six o 'clock in the morning. So they're getting up at five and like my alarm doesn't go off till six. And usually when my alarm goes off and I'm crawling out of bed, I hear their car pulling out. So they're, they're really, um, being responsible on going to bed on time because they're getting up really early.
Speaker: All right, sleeping arrangements. So as you guys know, we've talked about on this podcast before, our house doesn't have that many bedrooms. It's a, well, it has three bedrooms, but we have 10, you know, we have 11 people, nine of those are children. And so, um, the three bedrooms are upstairs and we have carved out.
Speaker: one unused attic space and made that into a bedroom. So I don't know like if we were to list the house on the market, if they would actually list that as a full size bedroom. It has like a skylight window in it and stuff, but whatever. I don't care. It's a place where a kid can sleep. And then we have a shed outside right outside the back door. It was a summer kitchen and it is been made into a studio bedroom for a couple of kids.
Speaker: So we have the teenage girls are in one room and then each of the, my son is home from college this summer, he's got his own room. And then the other teenage boy, he's got that little attic room I was telling you about with just a window, basically just fits a window and a bed and a dresser in there.
Speaker: that puts four kids in two bunk beds in one room, which is a lot, but they're at an age where they love it. They call it a sleepover, and it's just for this summer while our son is home from college, and they call it a sleepover, so they get to have a sleepover, and they
Speaker: kind of play musical beds. Well, I'm going to sleep on the top tonight and you're going to sleep on the bottom and blah, blah, blah. Sometimes they've even gotten out some pallets, mattresses and foams and thrown them on the floor and they all sleep on the floor so they can all sleep together. It's just kind of like musical beds. I'm just like, whatever. Just do it. It works for you. And then the toddler sleeps with mom and dad in our bedroom and the four -year -old, she's kind of like musical bed. She's
Speaker: She's my night owl, and then she's like musical bed, so she's like, hmm, who am I gonna sleep with tonight? And she just sleeps everywhere with anybody and everybody. Oh yeah, I know we've mentioned this before. My four -year -old's super similar. She's a stinker. I've never met a four -year -old that can last on as little sleep as this kid does. I'm like, what in the world? You're killing me, kid. And she's so sassy.
Speaker: Okay. So my question is, do your kids, I mean, obviously they've had more experience than mine have with sleeping together, but they settle down okay together. They just kind of eventually stop talking. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, they do good. I mean, they don't have any other option. There's not any other option. And then our home is open at any point within, they usually give me 24 hour notice, but our ministers in our religion, they are homeless. They don't have homes. And so they travel around and stay with the believers in their area. And within 24 hours notice, they're welcome to call us and come and stay.
Speaker: at any time and we like to give them each their own room. So that means maybe a kid's sleeping on the couch or maybe a kid's sleeping in the basement or whatever. And our kids never, they never fight or complain. It's just the way it is. Being part of this family and there's a lot of perks and we actually think them sleeping together is kind of a perk, but don't tell them that.
Speaker: That's so awesome. So for sleeping arrangements at our house, we kind of think that flexibility is the name of the game. It sounds like that works at your house too. And there's a lot of people and not as much space per, not as much square foot per person as most people, right? We have a decent sized house, but you know, there's still only whatever, 300 square feet per person. You just have to be flexible, right? So our kids, depending on the phase that they're in and what kids are together, sometimes they sleep great together and sometimes they don't. So like I said, we,
Speaker: Each kid has their own bed, but they do share rooms. And so we have had to move things around quite a bit. Sometimes I'm like, well, I'd really like to decorate a kid's room, something really cute that they like. And then I'm like, yeah, but then in three months we'd just move a different kid in and that would make no sense. So we currently have four bedrooms for the kids to use. And then our last house, we had three and eight kids between those.
Speaker: We just shuffle a lot, you know, a lot of shuffling around. Our toddlers and preschoolers tend to do well paired up with an older child, which kind of makes sense, right? Because then the younger one can go to sleep early, and then the older one, when they come in, knows how to be quiet. And they can also help comfort the little one if they get up and need somebody. And there's less distraction. The trouble comes for us when I start pairing up like this six -year -old and one of the eight -year -olds.
Speaker: that because the personalities are just like, you know, they just get along too well, you know, so they're running around and being crazy. And most nights they do pretty well together, but every now and again, I'll go, nope, you're gonna sleep in a different room tonight. So I'm just sharing that because I think it's really important that we remember that our sleeping arrangements
Speaker: don't have to and probably shouldn't look like some sitcom on TV, right? Like, if it's not working, change it. It's okay if your kid sleeps on the floor for a little bit. It's okay if your kid rotates between bedrooms. It's okay if he does really well on his own in the closet. Like, whatever. As long as it's a safe space, your kid can sleep wherever he needs to sleep. He's she. And it's okay to make changes a lot.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. One of my older teenage daughters, she had a period where she just didn't want to sleep with anybody. And so she just slept on the couch. She was like, you know, this is our house. This is the constraints. And you're the one who is not, it's not working for you right now. So you go make your own arrangements. And she just slept on the couch for about six months because that was what was working for her. And yeah, that's just what it is.
Speaker: All right, moving on to troubleshooting. What if they're not sleeping? Okay, so I don't really have trouble with sleeping arrangements anymore. I guess maybe just that little tick that I mentioned with my older teenage daughter. But if a kid isn't sleeping and they're waking up other kids around them, then it's usually sickness or they've had
Speaker: too many liquids, too close to bedtime. Or a third one that I want to just remind you guys of is if a kid has parasites, we have a whole episode of parasites, episode 60. It's gross and awesome. Go listen to it. Gross and awesome. Yeah, gross and awesome. Gross and awesome. But if a kid has parasites, they will very commonly wake up between one o 'clock and three o 'clock in the morning.
Speaker: and be upset or crying or frustrated or have to go to the bathroom or their bum itches or whatever. But that is, I guess, the time when parasites are the most active. So if you've got a kid that's consistently awake between one and three in the morning, maybe it's time for parasite cleanse. Interesting. Yes, I think maybe that might be time for my four -year -old little speaker. In fact, speaking of liquids too late the other night, she most of the time still needs some sort of
Speaker: wetness protection at night, a diaper pull up or something. And the other night somebody put her to bed and did not make sure she used the bathroom and did not give her any diaper or anything. And she came into my room, like literally sopping wet. I'm like, Oh, that's so gross. Okay. Into the shower at 2am. Like this is just what happens with kids. So we got to do these things to protect our own sleep, right? Everybody's asleep.
Speaker: A couple ideas for troubleshooting from our perspective is, I just want to share that bedtime is like a learning process, right? Especially as kids grow and needs change. A few years ago when we were in our old house, I just remember bedtime being absolute torture. If I could have done anything to leave the house between seven and nine, I would have done it because
Speaker: Nothing I did worked everyone cried. My husband was traveling a lot. So I was on my own a lot I had Gosh, just when my oldest was probably 11 or 12. So he was a little helpful, but still not great all these little kids It was awful and a baby that I had to get to bed along with the toddlers anyway
Speaker: Um, we ended up figuring it out. I think what we needed was just a little bit more space to separate two of the troublemakers. Um, but I just remember it being really, really overwhelming. So I totally get that. Um, and hopefully some of these ideas will help you. But, uh, one thing that that worked for us was tackling kids in, in small groups, especially if you have quite a few of them or, or several kids in vastly different stages. So if you have a baby and a five year old and a 10 year old, then that's gonna
Speaker: require doing them at different times, right? So I am not above letting my older kids watch TV or something so that I can get the younger ones down. Sometimes it's just like, this is survival mode right now. I got five kids five and under, I gotta, I gotta figure this out. So, or some sort of distraction like you go read a book to that one while I'm putting this one down, especially if you have quite a few little ones that need mom at bedtime and aren't quite ready for just a sibling to put them down. So divide and conquer, that's, that's my tip.
Speaker: That's a great tip. Yeah, those are really good. Separating them out into groups and saying, hey, you get to stay up and I'm gonna go work on this one right now. All right, some of my favorite tools and tips for bedtime. So warm milk is really, it really does work. It has sleepy properties. Of course, not too close to bedtime, but warm milk will make a child sleepy. Limited sugar.
Speaker: Oh, especially in the evening at bedtime, it just takes a lot of time for that stuff to get out of the system and they're just not gonna settle down if you, like we almost never have dessert after supper because it's just gonna take a while for that sugar to wear out. Sleepy time tea, that's a really good one if a kid is having a hard time. It's got chamomile and other stuff in it that really just helps kids get sleepy and stay asleep.
Speaker: Now this isn't really going to be an option for everybody, but we do have a sauna. And right next to our sauna, we have a tub that we fill up with ice water. And if a kid is sick or not feeling good or just struggling, there is nothing that is as restorative and makes them sleep as good as a couple of sessions through the sauna and then the ice water. And you can simulate that like with a hot shower and cold shower if it's an older kid and they're really sick. But man, if I have a sauna and then cooled water and sauna,
Speaker: cold water before bedtime. Man, I just sleep so good. So I know that's not like an option for everybody. It can be, you know, you can try a hot bath and then cold shower or something, but that is one of my favorite things. And then something I did way back at the beginning of having kids and trying to get them to sleep was I just kind of changed the paradigm about
Speaker: what sleeping is. So a lot of kids don't like to sleep because they think they're going to be missing out on something when they're asleep, right? Like, what are you guys going to do after we go to sleep? Like, you know, we don't want to miss out. Like, I definitely have FOMO kids. They just don't want to miss whatever's going on while they're sleeping. How come we have to go to bed? But I changed the paradigm by telling my kids often and repeatedly that you need to sleep
Speaker: because you grow when you're sleeping. And every kid wants to grow. What kid doesn't want to grow, right? And then I also told them, like, especially when they're sick, is your body heals itself when you're asleep. And both those things are 100 % true. You grow when you're asleep and your body heals itself when you're asleep. But by sharing that information with my kids just at the beginning, like they hear it from the time they're young,
Speaker: They just really don't fight going to bed and sleeping very much because it's like sleep, then they're not missing out on something. They're actually getting to do something while they're asleep. Their body is kind of like this cool thing. They're in cohorts with their body in there. I'm going to go sleep so my body can make me grow. Yeah, I love that. Especially for a kid who really wants to be big and strong, right? Yeah.
Speaker: So a few favorite tips and tools from me, I mentioned the white noise machine. We actually have three of them in our household because they, especially with a busy household and we live by a busy road, it just is helpful to mask any little noises that are happening outside of their room. Really, really helpful for babies that are getting used to a schedule. My babies sleep really well in closets, like I mentioned. We actually already moved baby Brynn into a closet. She's just four months because everyone would come in
Speaker: and be talking to me in my room while she was napping, I'd be getting out of the shower or something and she would always wake up. And so that has been really helpful. White noise with a little fan in the closet. She'll sleep for hours. It's great. Sometimes toddlers that refuse to go down, we have had to put them in
Speaker: safe, empty rooms with locking doors, which, you know, they're too big to be in the crib or they climb out of the crib or they just won't stay in a room. Sometimes it's like, well, you're just going to have some quiet time in here and I'm going to go rest in another room. And that's going to be best for both of us. I mean, sometimes just laying down with them is the best thing you can do, but that has worked for us.
Speaker: audiobooks, I know I've mentioned a hundred times, soothing music, although sometimes my kids all now know how to use the echos, you know, we have those little echo dots. And so they ask Alexa to play like, you know, rock and roll or something. I'm like, no, no, no, we're only going to do the lullaby track.
Speaker: Uh, maybe a CD player might be better for the little ones, but, um, play this one. I'm like, no, that's not a bedtime song. Um, essential oils and humidifiers, or you can combine both of those and use a diffuser, right? That can help with lavender, essential oil, et cetera. Um, and then one of my tricks that I used for years was this. I love reading my kids' books at bedtime as well, but sometimes I'm just tapped out. I'm like, I don't want to be reading to you anymore. I want you to go to sleep and I want to have my own time.
Speaker: But they're just not ready, right? So one thing that I started doing was I, when I wasn't in the mood to read something to them, I would just sit in their doorway with my own book. And so there was no interaction from me. I wasn't talking to them. I wasn't singing to them. It was bedtime. But I got a little time to myself to read my book while kind of being the gatekeeper so they couldn't leave their room.
Speaker: And I know that sounds silly, but if you have kids that escape all the time at bedtime, you'll understand. And this, it was like, it worked perfectly for me. I got my reading time in, a little bit of quiet time. I was there to hush them before, you know, like fights got out of hand or something. Um, and then they would fall asleep and I would leave and go to bed myself. So that worked really well for me. And then like, like Audrey's mentioned a couple of times, um, in various episodes, those screens before bed.
Speaker: can be just as toxic as sugar. It's really hard for those little brains to calm down if they're heavy, which is hard because sometimes you want to just be like, oh, just watch a movie and then you can go to bed. But if at all possible, that's helps them wind down if you don't have that. And then my final thought is just to stay calm during bedtime. I know that's like
Speaker: Sounds impossible sometimes with little kids that are wild, but if you could stay calm, they will stay calm. They can totally feed off your stress and they'll go to bed eventually. I know it feels like they won't, but they will. And you freaking out will probably only exacerbate the problem. So if at all possible, try to keep your wits about you.
Speaker: All right, so that was a lot to bombard you with you guys, but we know how valuable sleep is for you and for our children, and we hope some of these ideas helped you. Feel free to email us if you have more questions or you want more in -depth exploration on sleep and best of luck out there.
Speaker: Thanks for listening friends. Click the link in the show notes to subscribe to our email and never miss another episode. Show us some love by leaving a review on iTunes or sharing the podcast with a friend. Thanks for all your support. We'll talk to you next week.
