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Tracing the Narrative: The Art of Autographic Design in Data Analysis with Dietmar Offenhuber
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In this week’s episode, I chat with Dietmar Offenhuber about his new book, Autographic Design and the concept of autographic data analysis. Dietmar stresses the significance of recognizing the material origins of data and the influence of extraneous variables. He advocates for a qualitative approach that pays attention to data traces, which can uncover deeper narratives. In our conversation, we explore what is meant by autographic design and urge a wider lens on data to grasp multifaceted problems thoroughly. Additionally, Dietmar’s work underscores the interplay between qualitative and quantitative methods, emphasizing the role of subtlety and conjecture in data interpretation to bring a more nuanced understanding of the stories behind the numbers.
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Transcript
Introduction to Online Master's in Data Analytics
00:00:00
Speaker
This episode of the policy of his podcast is brought to you by the Maryland Institute College of Art. Virtually everything we interact with today is driven by or generates data. This data explosion has resulted in the need to take raw, unorganized data and not only process it, but also present it in meaningful ways. So that is insightful and actionable to meet this need. The Maryland Institute College of Art offers an online master of professional studies in data analytics and visualization, a 15 month accelerated master's program designed for working professionals.
00:00:30
Speaker
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Speaker
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Interview with Dietmar Offenhuber
00:01:24
Speaker
Welcome back to the Policy Vis Podcast. I'm your host, John Schwabisch. Have you ever thought about different ways of working with data and what data means in different contexts? So how you might download data from some website or some resource or how you might actually collect data running your own survey or through a Google form or how you might see data out in the world and the number of cars that pass by your office on any given day.
00:01:51
Speaker
Well, in this week's episode of the podcast, I talked to Dietmar Offenhuber about his new book, Autographic Design, The Matter of Data in a Self-Inscribing World. It is a fascinating look at how data can be different, the way we think about data, the way we work with data, the way we visualize and communicate data.
00:02:13
Speaker
And what you're going to hear in this week's episode of the show is just a really unique take on what it means to collect, analyze, and work with data. And I think if you can think about data in sort of a different way and take this into your everyday work, even if you are downloading data from the Census Bureau or the World Bank or the IMF, wherever it is, I think we could take a more holistic and truer sense of what data means in our day-to-day work.
00:02:41
Speaker
So here is my interview with Deepmar Offenhooper, the author of the new book, Autographic Design.
Dietmar's Background and Transition
00:02:49
Speaker
Deepmar, good morning. How are you? Good to meet you. Hey, John. Good to meet you. Glad to be on the show. This is great. I'm very excited. There is this whole sort of move around data physicalization these days. And I had recently some of the editors from the Making with Data
00:03:06
Speaker
book on the show and then I think Sam Huron was at a talk with you and I saw like the piece of your talk on Autographic Design and I was like whoa whoa whoa there's more and it's like a different angle on it so I'm very excited thank you so much for sending me the book um I was telling you earlier before we started I moved it to my Kindle so I could read it and then took all these notes and had to move it back to my desktop so I had it in front of me so I could like you know copy like highlighted text it to other things that I'm working on
00:03:35
Speaker
So I want to talk about the book. I thought we would start with introductions, you know, where you are, what you're doing, what you're working on, in addition to autographic design, and then we can talk more about the book. Sure. Sounds good. Perfect. So
00:03:51
Speaker
I did more from my background in architecture, but I studied architecture in the 90s when the field was in a big crisis because computers will disrupt everything and nobody actually believed that architecture actually will exist in 10 years.
00:04:10
Speaker
At that point, everyone was, you know, all my colleagues were doing all kinds of things on the internet and with digital form experiments and so on. And then I actually also dropped out to work for us electronic, which is like a media institution. But at some point, I decided that I actually want to finish and I want to, you know, work more on cities and urban environments. So I
00:04:35
Speaker
I finished up and then did a PhD in Boston on urban
Interdisciplinary Studies at Northeastern
00:04:40
Speaker
planning and urban studies. So this has always been my interest, having this kind of, you know, art visualization, cities, and data. Yeah, now I'm teaching and department chair at Northeastern University. And you're teaching in the urban planning department?
00:05:01
Speaker
As well, so Northeastern has this thing where they always have these dual appointments where you are appointed in two places. And one of it is public policy, which is the planning program and art and design. And at art and design, I'm mostly in data visualization and design theory.
00:05:23
Speaker
I do want to get to the book, but the Northeastern structure is all very, very interesting to me. So do you have students who are in both of those programs? Do you see them bouncing between the two? I mean, absolutely. Uh, so it's, we have this PhD that focuses very much on interdisciplinary, um, modes of research and, you know, students do visualization and urban studies or, you know, game science and,
00:05:52
Speaker
mental health and things like that. Right. Right. Wow. Um, kind of the way you need to be these days, like interdisciplinary work. Yeah. Okay.
Understanding Autographic Design
00:06:01
Speaker
So let's talk about the book because I think for me, I think I'm probably like, probably like most people, you see the title, Autographic Design, just those words and you're like, what? But then you see some of the images that are in the book. You're like, okay, this is something I want to dive into about. So let's start with defining Autographic Design for folks and then we can
00:06:20
Speaker
kind of make our way through, yeah. Yeah, maybe I should give a little bit of history, because like I've been working on the topic for a long time, and originally, we called it indexical design, focusing on these kind of semiotic theories, but that, you know, people got really, you know, like, what is that supposed to mean? And it's also, I found it a little bit too limiting to only look at it from a semiotic perspective. So autographic design,
00:06:48
Speaker
as a field didn't exist before, but the term autographic has been used by several theories such as Matthew Kirschenbaum, who, you know, distinguished between allographic and autographic arts, the ones that are really focusing on material traces, and the others that are purely based on, you know, data on the score, let's say, composition, and so on.
00:07:18
Speaker
The word autographic means self-writing or self-inscribing, and many things inscribe themselves in the environment. Think about tree rings or traces in the snow. We can look at them as visualizations, as a record of what has taken place. And the goal of autographic design is now to treat these traces as data
00:07:48
Speaker
and make them legible as visualizations. Those could be either traces that already exist that only need to be properly framed through design operations, or also to create the conditions that let new traces to emerge. For example, if you put a trace of substance in the water to see where the streams are going and things like that.
00:08:16
Speaker
So it's interesting because I think a lot of it feels centered around the environment and living things. But reflecting back on the very beginning of this interview, thinking about urban design, a lot of people describe cities as living, breathing entities. So how should folks think about
00:08:38
Speaker
data having these traces when it's not necessarily a living thing like a tree or a water system, but it is something that humans maybe have built, but it has this sort of still living feature. Yeah. I mean, I don't really distinguish between whether something has been human made or whether something is natural, environmental.
00:09:07
Speaker
But if we distinguish, maybe that's a useful distinction to distinguish between the symbolic world, where you only have abstract information versus the physical world. And in the physical world, regardless of whether to talk about what humans have made or natural phenomena,
00:09:30
Speaker
As Matthew Cushon-Bahn says, there are never two things that are exactly alike. You know, there are everything, every process leaves countless traces. But in the symbolic world, of course, we can have
00:09:43
Speaker
you know, perfect copies of a digital file and so on. But of course, you know, the digital file is also a physical trace at some point, you know, like if I drop the hard drive, I will know. Yeah. So could you talk about, just maybe for folks who are listening or watching, an example of a project that you think sort of embodies this idea of traces?
00:10:08
Speaker
I mean, since, you know, I'm looking out the window here and I see a little bit of snow now in Boston. And over the last 10 years in, I think they started in New York with Clarence Eccleston, Street Films director, and they started recording vehicle traces in the snow as a way of advocating for more space for
00:10:37
Speaker
pedestrians and cyclists. But basically making this argument, I mean, look, you know, if the cars are driving as they should within the speed limit, a little bit more careful because it's snowing, then they don't need so much space. They rarely come close to the sidewalk. There's so much space that could be recaptured.
00:10:58
Speaker
Yeah. And so, so, so this is, I mean, of course, you know, physical traces in snow have been already used by urban designers more than 100 years ago, or described in books, such as Camilo city wrote about snow to figure analyze traffic. But, but the argument here is slightly different. Because
00:11:24
Speaker
Today's transportation planners, you know, they work with data, they work with GIS models and so on. And in order to join that discussion, you're supposed to be able to master these tools and use all these advanced abstract
00:11:40
Speaker
forms of representation. But what these guys are doing is the opposite. They are basically just pointing to a natural trace and say, explain this. So they're basically shifting the conversation onto their own experiential territory. When I started reading your book,
00:12:02
Speaker
I came into it with in the back of my head, the sort of data physicalization literature and also a bit of the data art literature. And I think there's a pretty strong overlap between those two. And so can you, I think that example does a really good job, but maybe for, for folks who aren't sort of as familiar with these concepts, maybe distinguish between these different concepts or different projects that people are pulling together.
00:12:29
Speaker
Sure.
Autographic Design vs Data Physicalization
00:12:30
Speaker
So, I mean, first of all, I don't want to be territorial here because I think data physicalization and data art are very often autographic and there are a lot of artistic practices that focus on materiality, on physical theories and so on. But I think the biggest difference is this underlying idea of data, what constitutes data. And data visualization and physicalization, they start with this
00:13:00
Speaker
with a dataset. You can't do anything if you don't have a dataset. You'll then translate it into something that can be contemplated. But autographic design is different because it ends with data. You start with the phenomenon itself and you make it legible. And as you do this, you end up with something that
00:13:25
Speaker
you know, comes close to a digital dataset. So you are preparing the phenomenon in a way that it can be, you know, made legible as data. So, I mean, I can also say that in many autographic visualizations are measurement devices or vice versa. You know, if you think of a seismograph or a meteorological instruments, they make the process of measurement
00:13:56
Speaker
experiential and also accountable. More accountable than let's say digital sense that it just gives you a number at the end, but you don't have any context for that number. Right. I guess the struggle I have with
00:14:10
Speaker
the data physicalization work that people do is it feels more exhibitory, where it is often, I collected my data and my habits, or I have this data and I made a sculpture, or I made a this, or I made a that. And, you know, sometimes it's interactive, but a lot of the examples that you see out there are, you know, the kind of one that you see a lot now is people like knitting a scarf of weather patterns in their neighborhood.
00:14:40
Speaker
But the autographic design seems, feels different to me. And maybe it's because of the data piece, but it, I don't think it's that simple. I don't feel like it's that simple. Maybe it's just a feeling. Yeah. No, I mean, I think.
00:14:53
Speaker
Well, I started just with an observation of how all these controversies in our world today, how do they present themselves if you look at climate change or misinformation or environmental pollution, environmental justice and those kinds of things.
00:15:13
Speaker
It's rarely about the interpretation of data. It's not that someone creates a visualization and then someone else says, well, but this visualization is not correctly emphasizing this aspect, which of course can also be the case. But very often it's about the origin of data. People would say, well, that data set is not valid because
00:15:38
Speaker
And, you know, if you think about data collected by amateurs, that's very often the response or you use these these instruments. It's not, you know, how do I know if I can trust the data? So what I observe is that a lot of these activists or citizen scientists use kind of autographic methods just to
00:16:02
Speaker
put the data collection process itself to debate rather than the interpretation in terms of visualization. But of course, there's only one part of it because the other part is then how do you discuss the results? And I think this is maybe where physicalization and autographic
00:16:26
Speaker
design are again a little bit more similar because what I'm what I see as the biggest advantage of data physicalization is like you put something on the table you talk about it you have a kind of a conversational situation you can explore it together and it's not so much about you know brushing and linking and all these like interaction techniques it's more about
00:16:51
Speaker
having something on the table that grounds the discussion and focusing on that. And yeah, this is I think, I mean, as an educator, I also see just students are always gravitate to these analog modes of collecting data and it has that appeal because it like, you know, grounds the experience. Do you think that's because I mean, I totally agree with you. I mean, I think there's something about the tangible
00:17:20
Speaker
know at least in the you know touching the the marble in the in the column or the block to build the thing do you think that is inherently our nature or does that have something to do with sort of a push back against the digital world in which we're all in like all the time?
00:17:42
Speaker
I mean, it's very interesting question. And maybe it's a little bit of both. I mean, one of my favorite papers from a long, long time ago was Andrew Van der Moors against the tyranny of the pixel. This was, I think it's almost like 20 years ago now. So this, this sentiment that the screen is limiting us is, is very old. And
00:18:08
Speaker
But I think part of that sentiment is also the way how we make sense of things. For me, this very big revelation was during COVID when suddenly everyone became paranoid about touching things. And that made us realize how much we actually touched things. And so we started that autographic research project where we are trying to
00:18:36
Speaker
understand how people are touching data sculptures or data physicalizations in order to make sense of them by covering those with a kind of a powder that registers traces of touch. So I think, and the answer is not simple. I mean, people touch and physically engage with information in so many different ways. And maybe that's
00:19:04
Speaker
that's the part that is a little bit in the in the nature. Yeah. You know, Barbara Turetsky and other psychologists talk about how gestures are so much part of our thinking, they're not just a presentation or something like we think with our hands, right, whether we are sketching or whether we are, you know, touching, or, yeah, you know, fidgeting around.
00:19:30
Speaker
Right, right. But the other part of it, you sort of alluded to it, I think is kind of embedded in this is a, in some ways, a rethinking of what data are or what data. And how and so so when you work with either your colleagues or with students, like, what are those conversations like when you are discussing like,
00:19:58
Speaker
What do we think about when we think about data? Yeah, I mean, and maybe this is a result of our, you know, just the success of digital technology that when we think about data, we think about digital file or spreadsheet or something.
Rethinking Data Beyond Digital Forms
00:20:18
Speaker
Right. But someone who works in the social sciences or works with
00:20:24
Speaker
collects data from interviews, we know that it's a little bit more complicated. And there are many different forms of data that people use in their daily practices or scientific or professional contexts that are not like digital records. And if you want the definition of data, you can go all in the,
00:20:54
Speaker
philosophical rearm and just say, okay, yeah, kind of the minimum difference between two things and two states and so on. But that doesn't really help you that much in your practice. And in your practice is very contextual, you have archaeologists for whom a artifact that they pulled out from the ground is data. So, so you you don't necessarily rely on
00:21:22
Speaker
the translation into some form of symbolic record. Even though you could define data that way, you could say, okay, it's a record, but it's not a universally agreed way of defining data. And the way how I define data is really through these environmental traces. They are, for me, a material form of data.
00:21:46
Speaker
So there's the very interesting sort of conceptual nature and I will say, for me, I think I read the introduction of the book maybe like three times because I read it twice to start to sort of get my head around like, what are we talking about with autographic design then I read the rest of the book and you know it does.
00:22:05
Speaker
put the theory sort of into practice. You see all these different projects, the cars driving in the snow is like a great example. I, that one I have, I have like that whole chapter bookmarked. But then I went back again to sort of, you know, kind of crystallize it in my head. And so, so my, my question is for, I think for probably most people listening to this, I'll certainly put myself in this bucket of working with, as you mentioned, digital data, spreadsheets, databases.
00:22:32
Speaker
How should we think about this concept of autographic design in our day-to-day work? So there are many different ways how we can, I mean, on the one hand, it's really just an invitation to think about data differently. And this has very, very real implications because as I also explained in the book, digital data
00:22:58
Speaker
are also autographic in some sense. If you have on the one hand seismograph with the chart drum, the data is the trace on the chart drum. On the other hand, you have, let's say, a digital device that writes a dataset on some storage medium.
00:23:20
Speaker
It's conceptually the same thing. There are just a couple of more steps involved in the digital form. So the digital data set is also autograph, is also a literal physical trace. This is not just a metaphor, it's a literal trace.
00:23:38
Speaker
Why do we then need the concept of autographic design if everything is a trace? But for me, the answer is that it allows us to look at data differently. It allows us to analyze things that we otherwise would not be able to analyze. So this has very practical implications. In the book early on, I'll give this example. My dogs have seen a squirrel.
00:24:09
Speaker
There's a trace right there, right? Yeah, they're very excited about this. So just to give you an example, early on, I have this, you know, it's a popular data set, the taxi cap data set from New York, where, you know, you have millions and millions of pickup and drop of points as points. And if you just plot them all on a plane,
00:24:36
Speaker
you see, unsurprisingly, a map of New York that is very accurate. But then you notice that some area a little bit blurry. And people usually have a hard time explaining this. But of course, it is just the GPS signal that is interfered by tall buildings. So you have to understand the material
00:25:05
Speaker
background of how GPS works and then suddenly you have a third variable you know it's no longer just x and y suddenly you have information about the height about the three-dimensional shape of the
00:25:19
Speaker
of the city which has inscribed itself in kind of unintentional ways. So now if I'm a you know let's say very traditional data analyst I would you know remove all these because they are not accurate and I want a certain threshold of accuracy in order to get a good you know result for my analysis but
00:25:40
Speaker
If I look at those as physical traces, I can get additional things out of it, such as the three-dimensional shape of the city. There are many examples like that, where we have all these latent, unintentional, accidental,
00:26:00
Speaker
traces that are inscribed in our digital data. So this is like a very forensic perspective, but I think it's useful and a lot of people in the data field are very attuned to this. Yeah. Well, it is interesting because it is not like
00:26:21
Speaker
we are, we being sort of your average practitioner, right? It's not like we are, I guess autographic design to my mind is not so dissimilar from the work that we do every day and the work that we see every day is just like a different perspective on interrogating our data.
00:26:42
Speaker
Right. I think about you talk, um, I think it's kind of towards the middle end of the book on the early, uh, in the early part of the pandemic with the, um, with the, with the flat and the curve. I mean, we all saw that graphic and that, that has traces all around it, but maybe that's not how many people sort of think about data when they get started. They don't have that perspective.
00:27:07
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, the pandemic had so many examples of this. So there was this at one point.
00:27:14
Speaker
the case counts were kind of capped, just because the fax machines that were still used to transmit the numbers from the previous day just couldn't handle more, couldn't handle more paper. So we have this kind of, you know, materiality, again, inscribing itself into the data sets. And yeah, so there's this. So this is this one, maybe
00:27:40
Speaker
what could be called like a different state of mind about data that pays more attention to the real context of data. But then on the other hand, like to be very practical in terms of how this can be used. If we go back to the bicycle activists in New York, for them, autographic strategies are
00:28:07
Speaker
a very straightforward way of making claims about evidence. And it's kind of interesting because you're asking the recipient or the viewer to piece it together yourself. You just lay out things. You don't tell them the solution.
00:28:27
Speaker
You give them different parts and this is I think also what is a third thing that is maybe really useful for database practitioners because traces are about stories. We make sense of traces by kind of hypothesizing what may have caused them and then putting things together from various angles. So there's always a trace narrative. So there are these kind of...
00:28:53
Speaker
I don't want to be like, you know, positivistic and say, okay, those traces are evidence. And, you know, you cannot, you know, dispute that in reality, it's very rhetoric, you know, like, it's very rhetorical, you are guiding that you're listening to a viewer through these kind of trace narratives.
00:29:15
Speaker
It's also interesting because one of the arguments I've made in other projects I've been working on is for, and you mentioned this earlier about qualitative data, but I've been making this argument that quantitative researchers or analysts of which I would consider myself, certainly my training background is in quantitative methods.
00:29:34
Speaker
need to be more qualitative in some ways to actually talk to, in my line of work, talk to people and talk to groups and communities to find out what the actual experience is. The data don't always tell the full story. And I think, for me, that's where I'm sort of pulling in this concept of autographic design, that it rounds out a fuller story of what it means to
The Broader Story Behind Data
00:29:59
Speaker
Again, in my line of work, what it means to need programs to support food insecurity or to support people with disabilities, there's a broader story and only a broader perspective on data can we really understand these issues.
00:30:15
Speaker
Yeah, because someone has to come up with metrics, how to measure food insecurity and things like that. But it manifests in so many different ways. And in each way, in each manifestation, there are probably some kind of traces or indications that we can point to and that we can investigate.
00:30:36
Speaker
And, you know, I don't want to put this into a kind of a dichotomy between quality, different quantitative because like, you know, a qualitative course is about, okay, what is it trying to figure out what's going on here? What, what is the mechanism? What is the story? But then a kind of a quantitative, quantitative view also gives nuance because it's, it's no longer just categorizing things, but you're showing
00:31:02
Speaker
intensities and degrees different degrees differentiate that very well and that is also part of autographic design we're trying to if you look at all those
00:31:16
Speaker
chemical tests where, you know, a piece of paper changes color and you have a scale and you compare it to like, what is the color? Which number does that correspond to? So it's all about measuring quantities as well. But I think ultimately, it is this very speculative component that is, I find very interesting, where you
00:31:39
Speaker
never basically treat data as just as a plain fact, but it's always about this possibility, like what could have happened here and what could that mean and all these different ways, how those data could have been. Yeah. Yeah. That's a really interesting way to think about how the data could have been. Yeah.
00:32:03
Speaker
Um, so I wanted to just, uh, just before we wrap up, I wanted to ask about maybe some of the work that you're doing now on autographic design, any, uh, experiments or, or studies that you're doing that are, you know, you've written this book on it, but actually, you know, doing a kind of project around it. I mean, for me, just doing very modest art design projects, uh, was a way to also
00:32:32
Speaker
further my thinking about it. So it was not just the illustration, I say, Oh, look, this is an example of what I'm talking about. But this helped me clarify a lot of things. And just right now, there are two different lines. One thing is really looking at plants as, as visualizations, and then, you know, working with plant biologists. And I think this was a method that was
00:33:02
Speaker
brought up in the maybe 80s or 90s by NASA scientists, Jack Fishman, using plants as ozone indicators of like ground level ozone, which is a gas that is harmful for pretty much all living beings. And it also hurts plants and you can observe it on plants and
00:33:29
Speaker
So they've been putting together visualization systems that consist of plants that are sensitive to ozone and different degrees. So beans and tobacco and all kinds of different things. So I'm interested in these kind of community practices of monitoring the environment.
Current Projects in Environmental Monitoring
00:33:52
Speaker
So, and this is something I'm still doing, especially looking at local impacts of climate, climate change, to figure out how does the environment change, because the climate itself is an abstract concept. I mean, narrowly speaking, climate doesn't really exist in the environment because it's kind of an average,
00:34:15
Speaker
But what exists are the local impacts, and we're just trying to figure out the way how we can talk about those in a more general way. And so this is one kind of work where I've done some of the project that I called Ozone Tattoo, where I'm creating almost like a map legend on plants that show how this kind of ozone
00:34:44
Speaker
damage and impact looks like. And this is something I'm still doing with, you know, community groups and biologists. And a second line of work that I'm working on with Laura Perovitch and Benice Ogowitz, who is an experimental psychologist. Here we're looking at how people
00:35:12
Speaker
use their sense of touch to make sense of data physicalizations. And here the autographic part is mostly a method of registering touches because it's actually haptics is a surprisingly still a very difficult topic for digital technology. Even though in the nineties you had first haptic interfaces, but you know, they're always very fragile.
00:35:39
Speaker
and very limited. So we are using basically a tracer powder to register this and then we can photograph objects under UV light and kind of fluorescence. So this is kind of a very analog way of registering touch.
00:36:01
Speaker
Really interesting. So, Autographic Design is the name of the book. Where can folks find you if they want to learn more, if they have an idea for a project, if they're a community group in Boston, they're like, this is the guy we need. How can folks? Yeah, please reach out to me. I'm easily findable on the internet.
00:36:23
Speaker
And yeah, always happy to collaborate. And I'm also just interested in also seeing what people are doing that is somehow related without, you know, me making any claims about this. I'm just curious. That's great. Dimar, thanks so much for coming on the show. Really appreciate it. This was fun and congrats on the book. And I'll share all the notes for folks who want to read more. And yeah, thanks again for coming on the show. Thanks, John. It was a pleasure.
00:36:52
Speaker
And thanks everyone for tuning into this week's episode of the show. I hope you enjoyed that interview with Deetmar, and I hope you will check out his new book, Autographic Design. I hope you'll also head over to the PolicyViz website to check out all the show notes and all the links that I put in there so that you can explore this and related work to your heart's intent. And while you're at it, just take a moment out of your day, if you wouldn't mind, to go over to your favorite podcast provider and leave a rating or review of the show. It helps me bring in new listeners, helps me find
00:37:21
Speaker
more and more guests. So until next time, this has been the PolicyViz podcast. Thanks so much for listening. A number of people helped bring you the PolicyViz podcast. Music is provided by the NRIs. Audio editing is provided by Ken Skaggs. Design and promotion is created with assistance from Sharon Satsuki-Ramirez. And each episode is transcribed by Jenny Transcription Services. If you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it and review it on iTunes, Stitcher, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:37:50
Speaker
The Policy Vis podcast is ad-free and supported by listeners. If you'd like to help support the show financially, please visit our PayPal page or our Patreon page at patreon.com slash policyvis.