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Visual Narratives: The Art and Craft of Data with Federica Fragapane
865 Plays3 months ago
Welcome to Season 11 of the PolicyViz Podcast! After a relaxing summer full of travel and reading and fun, I’m ready to kick off a whole new season of the show. To kick off this season, I’m excited to be joined by Federica Fragapane, an independent designer known for her intricate and beautiful data visualizations. Our conversation delves into her creative process, the tools she uses, and where she finds inspiration. Fragapane, with a Master’s degree in visualization design and experience at Accurat Studio, integrates data into her bespoke visualizations that convey deeper narratives, particularly human experiences and environmental issues. She prefers organic shapes to reflect the living presence behind data, emphasizing beauty, context, audience, and accessibility.
Keywords: data, data visualization, flourish, graphic design, how to, information design, graphic design tutorials, graphic design portfolio, graphic design course, online learning, graphic design photoshop, graphic design trends 2024, how to draw, data scientist, Federica fragapane, accurat, AccessibilityInDesign, EngagingVisuals, Inspiration, DataNarratives, VisualizationDesign, InstagramPortfolio, BehancePortfolio, mathematics, Al, machine learning
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Transcript
Welcome to Season 11
00:00:12
Speaker
Welcome back to the PolicyBiz Podcast season number 11. I'm your host John Schwabisch. I hope you're well. I hope you had an enjoyable summer. Into fall here in the US the leaves are still green but the kids are out of the house for just a little bit of the day so I can get some work done which is very nice. So Back to the podcast, pulling a
Exploring Non-Standard Data Visualization
00:00:39
Speaker
lot of stuff together. I've got some great folks lined up to teach you and help you create better, more effective, clearer data visualizations, presentations, social media posts, reports, briefs, blogs, whatever you are creating where you want to communicate your data, your analysis, your research. We are going to start the season
00:01:02
Speaker
talking about more non-standard forms of data visualization. So we're going to move away from bar charts and line charts and pie charts and into the more custom bespoke visualizations.
Introduction to Federica Fragapane
00:01:12
Speaker
And I'm very excited to talk with Frederica Fragapani from Italy about her work If you are in the field of data visualization, you have seen her stuff. Even if you are not enmeshed in the field, you've probably seen her stuff. You may not even know that you've seen her stuff. It is super detailed. It is super bespoke. It is beautiful. It is lovely. It is informative. Now, before we get over to the interview.
00:01:37
Speaker
I would be remiss if I did not start off this season by asking you for a quick
Call to Action: Rate and Review
00:01:42
Speaker
favor. If you would, please rate or review the show on your favorite podcast provider, be it Spotify, be it iTunes, wherever you listen to this podcast. If you would be a dear and please just click those five stars or write a quick review, I would really appreciate it. And if you don't want to write a review, if you don't want to leave a rating for the podcast, maybe you could do that for one of my books.
00:02:06
Speaker
over at Amazon. Yes, all of these things help. They help me find new guests. They help me find more folks who can help me produce the podcast. They help me find more people who can listen to the show and improve their visualization so that we can improve the data that is communicated around the world. So yes, it does help. It does go a long way. So if you could just click that little button, wherever you're listening to this, click 5 stars, I would appreciate it. Alright, with that out of the way, let's get into the first episode of Season 11 of the Policy of This Podcast.
Federica's Journey into Data Visualization
00:02:44
Speaker
I'm very excited to have Frederica join me on the show to talk about her work. We talk about a whole host of things about
00:02:52
Speaker
how she thinks about creating these bespoke detailed visualizations. We talk about her process, we talk about her tools, and we talk about what inspires her in the creative process. So I'm sure you're going to enjoy this first episode of the podcast. And here is my conversation with Federica Fraga-Pana.
00:03:14
Speaker
Hi, Federica. Great to see you. Hi, John. It's been, like, what? Six years, maybe? Since we spoke? Just trying to figure out, like, maybe OpenViz in 2018, 2019, something like that? Yeah, exactly. In Paris. Wow. Yeah.
00:03:30
Speaker
So it's been a while. So, uh, I've been obviously watching your work with admiration and a little bit of envy and how beautiful and amazing all of your stuff is. So I wanted to chat with you about your process and your projects and just how you think about everything. So maybe for folks who aren't aware, or we can start with just like introduction, like how you got to where you are now and, and, and the sort of work that you're doing and maybe some of the folks that you're working with.
00:03:59
Speaker
Yes, sure. So first of all, thank you. Thank you so much for your words and thank you for having me. So my name is Federica Pregapane. I'm an independent ah data visualization designer, information designer. I've been working as a freelancer since 2015, but I've been doing this job since 2012 when I started working at Accurate, a yeah very well-known information design agency based in Millaray, New York.
00:04:25
Speaker
Before that, I have a master's degree in the communication design, and during my master's degree there, I attended a course, the Dance and Design course, which was founded by Paolo Ciarelli at the time. And during my studies, I attended this course, it's a course, it's it's still at Fori Technico di Milano, um where I studied, and it's a course ah with a focus on data visualization and information design.
00:04:53
Speaker
It was a field I didn't know very well. I was just very curious about it. And so I attended the course during my studies at Polytechnico and I discovered how interested I was in into combining what I was studying about graphic design and communication to contents to data information. So that was for me a very very important moment in my career because I i discovered this field and I understood how passionate I was about it.
Freelance Work with Major Clients
00:05:22
Speaker
so then I worked at Accurate and for a few years. It was definitely another very important moment in my career. It helped me a lot. I learned a lot also for a confidence perspective because I was freshly graduated. So it was very, very helpful and it was an amazing environment.
00:05:40
Speaker
to work in. And then I started at the Pulitzer in 2015. And this is my my current situation. And during the past years, I worked with different magazines and organizations. I've been working with BBC, with Pacific American, with Google, the UN, ah European Union. And i'm still I consider myself very lucky because I'm still enjoying very much what I do. yeah So did you when you were studying graphic design, did you find you had a desire to work with data? like Was that something you were interested in or had some inclination towards? I actually wasn't aware of this possibility when I started studying design like in the first years of university. I started learning about the existence of infographics after some years there at Polytechnico.
00:06:32
Speaker
And I was very curious about that. ah This is why I decided to attend Density Design. I mean, when I was a student, high school students, I loved math so and science. So I guess that part was always there. yeah and and But it was attending the course that I really discovered that I was interested into using graphic design to to display information, to help understanding topics. ah That was the moment in which I really realized that.
Federica's Approach to Data Visualization
00:07:02
Speaker
Yeah, I'm always interested in this because I obviously with my background in economics come to information visualization kind of from the data side and have tried to like add on admittedly very elementary like graphic design skills, but I'm very always interested in sort of people who come from the other side.
00:07:20
Speaker
and have that more graphic design training or perspective and then add on the data side on top of it. So maybe with Accurate, as you started to work with Accurate, like, did you find it difficult to start working with data and like understand that part of the job? Was it you had a lot of people around you that were able to help you sort of guide you in how to work with data?
00:07:39
Speaker
Yeah, I would say I didn't find particularly challenging. um Also, something that I really enjoy about this ah this kind of of job is that I collaborate a lot with different people. So there are cases in which I work independently on on the data. and i mean for for data that are not super complex, of course. I mean, with a certain level of complexity anyway, but there are also cases in which I collaborate with scientists or data analysts. And so this this collaboration aspect is something that I particularly enjoy. And so I have to say, no, I didn't find it particularly challenging, maybe because I was inclined towards also maths and a certain scientific approach. So I think that helped me a lot because it's something that I already had. I already had an interest in too. Right.
Detailed and Bespoke Style
00:08:28
Speaker
um What's really, I find really interesting about your work is that it's um very detailed, very bespoke. It has a little bit of kind of like the early Georgia loopy, like angular, that sort of approach. And I'm curious about why you're drawn. And maybe that's just what I see sort of publicly is the big pieces. I'm sure you're doing other stuff that's like, you know, bar charts, line charts, but like,
00:08:54
Speaker
I'm curious why you're drawn to those big detailed bespoke pieces and and what sort of drives you to create that sort of more detailed visualization as opposed to, yeah, you know, here's a small multiples of bar charts.
00:09:08
Speaker
Yeah, so as you mentioned, actually, I also work, I have nothing against ah bar charts, line charts, and so on. I work with i work on on class um graphics that are more classical, let's say. ah For instance, I work with the publication office of the European Union, and for them, I work with very classical, minimal, and simple graphics.
00:09:31
Speaker
Also, in those cases, I have to say I spend a lot of time on the statics and the refinements too, because I think for me, it's an important aspect anyway. But so that's to say, for me, creating data visualization is really an act similar to the writing one. And I think that in writing, the words that you can use, the tone that you can use can be very different. There is no there isn't just one good way in which you can write. It definitely depends on what you want to convey and what is the the context, who are the readers. And the same concept for me is valid in data visualization. So for me, I'm really for me i'm i'm working with the visual words also combined to textual elements, of course.
00:10:12
Speaker
and And the shape that I give to these words really depends on the needs, the projects, answers to, on the usage context. So there are there are cases on the data also. So to give you another example,
00:10:29
Speaker
um i worked on ah I often work on ah pieces that have an organic look and feel, ah shapes that are very soft and organic. and And for me, I often work with data that have a living presence behind them, ecosystems or human lives behind them. And for me, working on when it makes sense to do it, when it makes sense for the usage context,
00:10:52
Speaker
Working on on organic and soft shapes is a way in which I try to recall this presence behind the data. And sometimes it's asked by the clients too. So so for instance, so some years ago I worked on a piece for a magazine called Atmos. It was a feast but of um investigative a piece of investigative journalism by the journalist Yesenia Funes about environmental activists killed in Brazil.
Project for Atmos Magazine
00:11:15
Speaker
And she asked me some data visualizations to accompany a brilliant article. And she asked me to use an organic look and feel, those ranges of the projects of mine, those kind of projects, because I had different ranges of experimentations of ah shapes I use. And in that case, she asked me to use this that kind of language.
00:11:35
Speaker
because it was, ah in our opinion, it worked well with our work, ah with the article and with the data. So the the main reason is ah what I'm telling, what are the data, what are the information and also the context.
00:11:49
Speaker
If I work for analysts, analysts, of course, ah for dashboards, there is a need to use soft organic shapes. Also in those cases, as I was mentioning, it's very important for me to have something that can be ah pleasant to look at, because for me, it's always an invitation to the readers, but there are cases in which it doesn't make sense to experiment with shapes and visual technologies.
00:12:12
Speaker
But there are contexts in which it's required ah from from the clients too. And in my opinion, it makes sense to to do that. Right. You mentioned this this phrase that I love, living presence of the data. And I want to dig into that a little bit. How do you think about data generally? But I think my question is, like how what is the thought behind this phrase, living presence of the data?
00:12:37
Speaker
So there are different layers of of presence. So first of all, the stories, the the easiest one, the stories that the data tells. So I often work on data which have human stories behind them, or or ecosystems, living ecosystems, the environment. And in that case, this is the human, the the presence, the living presence I'm referring to.
00:13:00
Speaker
But there's also the loopy and Monashalabi and many other designers and authors are have been telling data aren't neutral creaturetor creatures at all. there There is always a presence behind them. This is the second layer, the second level of presence, because inevitably the people behind them, the human choice is behind them. And then when there is an algorithm, of course, there is a presence behind the algorithm too.
00:13:24
Speaker
And so ah for me, when I can, it's always important to ah to, in some way, to try to relieve this presence, to showcase this presence. Also working on shapes that are not necessarily always geometrical and perfect, but working on imperfect and soft shapes, for me, it's a way to try to, in a more or less optimal way, to declare this. Yeah.
00:13:51
Speaker
It's interesting interesting interesting in some ways to hear you talk about that because One of the things that I observe about your work is is exactly as you obviously mentioned, like, I mean, just thinking about like in my head, your Instagram feed right now, like it's a lot of like flowers and trees and and those sorts of organic shapes. But what I don't see a lot in my memory, of course, is a lot of like icons of representing people or communities. and i'm And I'm curious about that because I struggle with this. If I think about trying to represent people like icons a very powerful way because you can, you know, you see this
00:14:25
Speaker
image of a person rather than an abstract know bar or circle. But on the other hand, there's this challenge with sort of representing people accurately you know to reflect the diversity that's in the data. And so I'm curious about your perspective on kind of Now I could be wrong, but what I sort of view is in your work, like you're using a lot of individual data with this, as I love this living presence phrase, but not sort of using icons and images of individual people.
00:14:57
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. it's I would say it's a personal preference. I mean, I have nothing against, again, icons of course. I think they can be extremely helpful. But it's just something that is pretty essential to me. For me, it's... um I prefer to... represent these this presence in a more subtle way than an icon, for instance, with a shape that can be regular or organic. But it's just something that is a personal approach. It's just the way in which I i do it, in the way in which I find instinct while doing it, yeah rather than depicting them more literally.
00:15:36
Speaker
There are, again, cases in which I design icons because they they can be very helpful. But usually, I try to represent the same feeling in a different way, using the shape of the visual elements rather than the actual representation, if it makes sense.
00:15:53
Speaker
Yeah, no, it totally makes sense. It's this it's just curious to me how different you know people approach the these designs. um So you have these ah organic flowing fairly, not fairly, in many cases, very detailed visualizations. And I wanted to ask how you think about how the reader navigates their way through it and how you try to facilitate that navigation.
00:16:19
Speaker
Yeah, so first of all, the the there is a concept that I already mentioned that is the aesthetics as an invitation. So I work with care on the aesthetics of my pieces, also for the ones that are more classical or simpler. um For me, working with care on the aesthetics of the visualization is really an invitation to the readers, an attempt to invite them to delve into my projects and ah looking into the data open that it can be a pleasant experience, even if the data are not pleasant at all, um sometimes. um So this is the main, ah the first step, I try to catch their attention through the aesthetics of my visuals. And then of course, there is the legend, the key that for me is essential, I really spend a lot of time
00:17:10
Speaker
ah Designing the Legends, it's one of the parts that it's more important to me. I work with them with extreme care. I test them a lot. I always say that I send them to my parents ah ah because they are not data visualization experts. that are They are not journalists. They are not part of these fields. So for me, it's very important to listen to their feedback, also to exit from my bubble, my workflow, right and to have feedback from somebody who has never seen the project before. it's super important and helpful for me. So the legend is the bridge between me and and the readers. Also the short texts that accompany the visualizations are very important. I really i really think that
00:17:52
Speaker
I really believe in the importance of combining visual representations to simple short text that can accompany the reading because we are not at that level of data literacy and I cannot take and for granted that never a user can can look at the graphic, even the simplest ones.
00:18:10
Speaker
Of course, this is even more important for the very complex and detailed and experimental ones. And then I often work with pieces that are explorative. So I'm not necessarily trying to prove a point, but the the idea is just to let people explore the data and find their own insights and focus on the aspect they are more interested into. Right. Have you found over time that your parents are more data literate?
00:18:39
Speaker
given that you like if you like constantly show them things, if you found that they like it's easier and easier for them to navigate through. Yeah, of course they are. In fact, yeah they are not as good as testers, let's say. Yeah, right. Yeah, no, of course, yes. But ah still, I mean, of course, when I work on um on um my projects, i i I have feedback from the clients. so right sure But I still believe that the opinion of somebody who has never seen the project, it's it's very important. But yes, of course, I noticed that they are very, yeah now for them, it's definitely easier. But it's very interesting, too.
00:19:14
Speaker
i yeah Yeah, no, it's just it's just kind of funny as we think about, you know, the sort of whole separate field of data literacy and and numeracy, how, you know, I don't think you need science to back this up as people are exposed more to seeing
Testing Visualizations for Clarity
00:19:29
Speaker
visualizations or data they're just better at it and It's sort of funny when, you know, I hear this a lot. People are like, oh, you know, show it to your to your mom, your dad, your your friend who's not a data person. But like the more you show to these individuals, the better they are at it. Like you said, they become worse at being your like your testers. So that's that's that's a challenge.
00:19:47
Speaker
um So I'm sure folks are wondering about your process, um both in terms of how you go from conception to final project in sort of the practical, like what tools you use, but also in sort of your conception of before you get into trying to build that final project, like how you get to that to that point. So it's sort of a two-part question. We could start with maybe the conceptual part of how you sort of like build it out in your head and then get before you get to like the computer part. But then I'm sure folks are interested in what tools you're using because I'm sure there there are folks out there who are curious about that.
00:20:24
Speaker
Yeah, sure. So ah of of course, I work on very different kind of projects with different complexity. But usually, I mean, of course, the first thing that I do is looking at the data. But before that, what I do constantly is saving images, looking for inspiration, saving images on Pinterest or Instagram, or when I go to a museum, or when I see something, ah I live with a shape that I enjoy particularly. I just take a picture of it. I mean, for me, it's really important to create this.
00:20:54
Speaker
constantly updated catalog of images that in some way speak to me. In fact, i coming to to the other question about the icons, I don't necessarily think that using organic shapes is the only way to talk about living presence behind the data. It's just a way in which for me it's essential to do it. And also when I look for inspiration, I look for inspiration and I see images that in some way speak to me. And this is what helped me I think in creating my own style and it's just a very personal perspective. yeah And so i I have this collection of images i and I try to update it, and not necessarily when I have to start a new project. um And then when I have a new project and I have new data, what I find helpful is first of all studying the data and having in mind the macro structure of the data, sketching the macro structure,
00:21:48
Speaker
I have 50 countries, 10 years of CO2 emissions for such countries, just sketching the skeleton of the information, the structural information. And then I brow spend a lot of time looking for inspiration, browsing my catalogue, but just after having in mind the structure of the data. In this way, I can find elements, visual elements,
00:22:11
Speaker
that can talk to the data that I'm working with, that in some way can create a dialogue with the data, with the structure of the data I'm working with. And I often save images ah that are not necessarily data visualization projects, even if, of course, I really enjoy being updated on what my colleagues are doing and accepting that I'm very interested in. But when it's time for visual inspiration, I really enjoy saving images that are not related to the words of data visualization, but they can be a cliche, the rewards of nature, of art, illustrations, and graphic design in a broader sense. And this helps me in trying to find new visual languages that can help me for the data that I have. So I don't want necessarily to force the data for i an image I found and that I enjoy, but it's like a mixer to, to they have to work in parallel to me. Right, okay, I gotcha, yeah.
00:23:05
Speaker
And so then I start sketching. Very ugly sketch sketches on my on my notebook, and and then there is the tool face. So you are pen and paper, or do you sketch on an iPad? No, pen and paper. Yeah. Pen and paper. Yeah. Okay. So you have like this huge collection of of colored pencils and markers, or are you like you have like black and white, you're just you're just getting things on on paper. Yeah, I'm boring. Just black and white.
00:23:35
Speaker
I mean every time, like I'm just so like every time I talk to a a designer, I always like have this image of this like amazing bookshelf of amazing pens and and markers and and paints and stuff. But it sounds like it's just, you have what I have like a cup full of pens. So yeah.
00:23:50
Speaker
Um, okay. So, uh, before we get to the computer part of building, um, on the data part, are there tools that you use? Because a lot of the, a lot of the products you use, they're not like a simple, singular table that you could sort of look at and just like imagine like, are there tools that you're using to explore the data?
00:24:11
Speaker
No, i just I just use Excel or or Google spreadsheet. ah and And sometimes I work with data analysts. ah And in that case, though, they work on the data and then they we talk about them. Okay. And so you're just sort of visually exploring the data to try to get a sense of, you know, this column is in dollars, this is percentages, this observation looks like it's way bigger than the others, but it's sort of just a visual kind of trying to get a feel of the data.
00:24:40
Speaker
Yeah, and to do that, I use raw graph a lot. okay This is the tool that I use not only for my final representations, but also to start exploring the data and seeing how it behaves.
00:24:53
Speaker
Gotcha. Okay. So you've got your sketches and now, and you've got your, what I imagine is kind of an amazing collection of photographs and links. um And so now you're into the computer. So what are the, what are sort of the suite of tools that you use to to build your, your projects?
Tools and Collaboration
00:25:10
Speaker
So first of all, I have to say ah when I work on interactive projects, I really cannot mention two of my friends and colleagues ah because i I don't code, I'm not a developer. So for the interactive projects, I always work with Paolo Corti is an incredible developer.
00:25:28
Speaker
And Alex Piacentini was a designer and developer. So I always have to mention them when I talk about the most technical aspects. When I work on static projects, I work on them independently. And in those cases, I always use Adobe Illustrator. That's always the the the main tool I use. And pretty often I combine it with raw graphs.
00:25:50
Speaker
Okay. Because it's super helpful. I can, ah as Fuji files created ah using raw graphs, ah then i import them on Illustrator. And I often use both raw graphs ah or the graphs tools that that are embedded in Illustrator to have the skeleton of my visuals, to have the accurate ah representations.
00:26:13
Speaker
And then I often draw on top of them my custom shapes. So in this way, I can have custom representations, but they are also accurate, of course. So you have a pretty streamlined toolkit. You know, a lot of people use, and I'll throw myself in this group, like I use kind of like everything, right? And it's like, it is can be a little overwhelming because there's like always new tools popping up, but you you seem to have a pretty like pretty small dedicated toolkit of like raw Illustrator, Excel, or Google Sheets. Yeah, that's true. I often, i sometimes I also add new tools, ah like Figma for prototypes, for instance, or websites. ah ah But for the static visualizations, I've been very yeah truthful to my good old original tools. I'm open to everything news.
00:27:07
Speaker
Of course, but at the moment I'm finding very, I mean, I find myself ah very, I work with them very well. So yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're, they're the tried and true kind of tested design tools. So if it's not broke, don't, don't fix it. um What sort of projects are you working on now that's got you excited?
00:27:30
Speaker
um I've been working, I've been collaborating with the European Union, and it's something that I really enjoy doing. And it's also, ah again, with them, i'm I'm working with very classical and representations, but it's something that I enjoy because I can have nothing been against bar charts.
00:27:49
Speaker
then There are projects I'm very excited about, but still can talk about unfortunately, but a project that I worked on recently, and I know that you're aware of it, it's ah ah it's a set of data visualization for an exhibition.
Data Visualization for Exhibitions
00:28:03
Speaker
And it was a very interesting project to work on because um I've never worked for an exhibition. I mean, i my works have been displayed in exhibitions, but it's not the same thing.
00:28:14
Speaker
And it was a photographic exhibition by the photographer Luca Locatelli, who worked on the topic of sustainability and circular economy solutions. It was created by Elisa Medde and it was presented in a beautiful museum in Turin. It's called the Galleria d'Italia.
00:28:32
Speaker
and And the curator, Elisa Mette, really wanted to... the The purpose of the exhibition was very informative, informative about all the possible solutions, sustainable solutions, circular economic solutions. And they wanted to add an even more informative layer to this photograph beautiful photographic exhibition. And so they asked me to design some data visualizations, an interactive screen and some printed data visualizations.
00:28:57
Speaker
to accompany the journey of the exhibition in the different rooms, ah covering the different topics that the photographs were portraying. And it was very interesting working on this um and this project because, of course, I had been asked to visual experiment because I was in an artistic context and that part of visual experimentation was very important, but the informative aspect too.
00:29:22
Speaker
And then it was very nice because an aspect that was totally new for me was that I had after finishing everything some days before the opening, I have spent some hours with the guides because of course there are people there with guides who can explain to the visitors the visualizations.
00:29:41
Speaker
And I spent some time with them, telling them about the visualizations, the approach to the data. And it was very nice because for once I had a bridge, a living bridge. Yeah, a living bridge. yeah Yeah. And the visitors. And and there was many. And then um they told me that there were many, many visitors because the exhibition was was beautiful thanks to Locatelli and the curator.
00:30:05
Speaker
ah But also many, many schools, many, many kids and the teachers asked for the visualizations because they wanted to um to also show them to the kids at school. So it was a very, very nice experience. too yeah yeah So I've seen, we've we've talked about that, um or we emailed about that project in the past, because I'm just i'm curious on the sort of museum exhibition space of Dataviz, but I'm curious, um at least from the from the pictures, they look like very large kind of yeah poster size ah visualizations. And I'm curious whether that size caused any
00:30:41
Speaker
change in your process or whether it was freeing because you had so much space or whether it was more difficult because you're like, how do I fill all this space and make it interesting? Like did the did the size impact your process at all?
00:30:54
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. ah Because I really had to balance. Having more space didn't mean that I could have something that was definitely more complex of my usual visualizations. Also because everything was in double language. This was challenging because I had to be Italian and English. So I had to dedicate a lot of space to the double language.
00:31:18
Speaker
Right. And also seeing something in ah looking at a visualization in a magazine, it's very different from looking at it on ah on a museum. So for instance, I did a lot of print tests to see, and to check the readability, the font size, it was very important. The height of the different texts, it was very important and that they could be accessible. But then, and I did a lot of tests in my at home.
00:31:41
Speaker
but then once we did the first test there was completely different because of course the space of a museum it's totally different from the one you can try to recreate in a room and so you'd have to calculate the distances differently and so it was definitely a challenging part and something that I've never worked on before. yeah right yeah i mean just just the because you've mentioned like adults and kids viewing it like just the difference in the height of what uh you know an eight-year-old can see at you know i don't know how old eight i don't know how tall eight-year-olds are are anymore like
00:32:19
Speaker
four feet tall versus, or three and a half feet tall versus, you know, a six foot tall adult. Like just, just that difference is, is really interesting. Yeah. For me, it was important to have the text, the explanatory text, always in the same positions and at a height that couldn't be too challenging. So they were always at the bottom of the visualization so that, because it would be challenging for, for some people if it was too high, for instance, in the past.
00:32:47
Speaker
And for the text itself, thinking about these kind of two different groups, adults and just generally adults and kids, like how did you think about the writing itself? i mean the I mean, you've done a lot of magazine work, so I suspect that that comes pretty natural to you to sort of write for a audience? Is that similar? I really enjoy also writing, ah but in that case with the curator we decided that but ah all the texts that were within the visualizations needed to be very, very simple and very minimal.
00:33:23
Speaker
the there wasn't a need for poetic text within the visualization. they i really My effort was on explaining ah ah the data the units of measures, because sometimes the the units of measures weren't so easy to understand for everybody. ah The source, ah the kind of information, and then the text ah of the exhibition that also mentioned the visualizations were the most poetic and evocative ones. So this was a decision that we made.
00:33:53
Speaker
Yeah, that is really interesting. So thanks for coming on. Before I let you go, where can folks find you and view your work and connect with you?
Explore Federica's Work Online
00:34:06
Speaker
So on Instagram, Federica Fraga Pane, not an easy name, I know. For the Italian people. For the non Italians, yeah. Yeah, but it's difficult for the Italian too. And also on VN, so you can find my online portfolio at Federica Fraga Pane.
00:34:22
Speaker
Okay, so I will put links to your Instagram feed and your Bahant feed on the show notes so people can go take a look at your work and connect. Federica, it was great to chat with you. Thanks for coming on the show. And I'll look forward to the next pictures of the next museum installation because I'm just excited about that stuff. Thanks again, I appreciate it. Thank you so much and thank you for having me. It was my pleasure.
00:34:57
Speaker
or on YouTube if you're watching it there. And I have lots of great guests lined up for this season coming in your way. I'm not gonna tell you who they are because that will ruin the surprise.
00:35:07
Speaker
But be sure to check back in. I've got lots more coming your way on this season of the policy of his podcast. So thanks so much for listening and I'll see you next time.