Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Off Through the Waves the Boy Moms Roll
27 Plays23 days ago
Rena and Paige discuss how much interference is necessary at the playground, how hard it is to watch boys roughhouse, and the time Paige’s seventh grade teacher told her she would be an accountant.
Recommended
Transcript
Seeking Validation in Parent Group Chats
00:00:05
Speaker
She laughed at something I texted. Oh, yeah, the Walmart thing. I was like, it wasn't that funny. Oh, no, I liked that. It was too late. By the time I saw it, it was like midnight. I texted late. I mean, yeah. So I didn't want to alert people, We're in a parent group chat and it's a big composition about who can say the funniest thing. Who gets the most ha-ha. Who gets the best reactions. And you're like in a bad mood for the rest of the day if you don't get ha-has on your text. Well, I really spit out because I'm like, I want to be a comedy writer and these regular people don't think I'm funny. I'm like, what do I think I'm doing? should quit.
00:00:38
Speaker
anyway um All right, boy mom stuff. Let's
Beach Party Adventures and Safety Concerns
00:00:44
Speaker
hear it. You went to a beach party yesterday. i went to a beach party yesterday. And you still have sand.
00:00:49
Speaker
I was tracking sand through Rina's home. We need more. I just had so much fun. Yeah? i was trying to brag about. You were there for a really long time. it was.
00:01:01
Speaker
We were there for hours three and a half hours. That's long. For a beach? Well, you got to – if you're going to make the trip, you got to make it. I guess. Worth your while. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the and the place we went – there's a lot to do. There's the there's playground part of it. There's a pool. we didn't We didn't do the pool. Okay. We were around the pool. How did you stop your kids from going in the pool?
00:01:24
Speaker
They just knew not to go into the pool. I mean, sometimes they were – If they were like getting close, I'd be like, you need to step away. Okay. But you weren't on edge the whole time? i would have been terrified.
00:01:35
Speaker
i Well, there was a reason I didn't want to. it was a beach party, but then I found out that they were going to be setting up by the pool. And then I was like, I don't know about that because they can't swim. Yeah. And I'm one person.
00:01:47
Speaker
bringing two children who can't
Evaluating Swimming Lessons: Cheap vs Expensive
00:01:49
Speaker
swim. So I told them that I didn't want to be hanging out by the pool. yeah But that was what they were doing. That was the party that they established. What's the plan for the swimming? Are you going to do lessons? They have lessons in two weeks. Oh, okay. you're like right on the precipice. Oh, yeah. two weeks later. I was about to sign up for those. I got to sign up. Where are they going? YMCA? Yes. No, no. YMCA classes do not do – unless maybe the suburbs the YMCA is better. don't know. But the YMCA here do not bother. Young Men's Christian Association. me tell you, they're not doing good work. Are talking about Hollywood or Glendale?
00:02:28
Speaker
ah We did K-Town. Oh, and it was not good. Just the – and from what I've heard – None of the instructors at NACC. Oh, so you tried and they still can't swim. You did lessons at K-T. we did. We've done all the cheap lessons. Okay. We did the YMCA lessons. We did the l LACC lessons. Okay, now you're giving up on cheap lessons. they just don't work.
00:02:49
Speaker
They don't. Because... They're just like, can you blow bubbles? that they like They're doing like minimal effort. Right. And the parent has to go in with the kid. The real lessons, the expensive ones, are the ones- The private lessons. they Or it's just with a group. They're just expensive and they're every single day.
00:03:07
Speaker
Every day? They're every day for two weeks. Whoa. And the kid, I think it's like three kids per class. How much do these cost? $6.50 for a session. Two weeks? Yeah.
00:03:19
Speaker
But then they know how to swim. $6.50. Brooklyn, there was a place called Goldfish or Gold something. That's where everybody went. And it was expensive. Yeah. But who even has a pool? What even...
00:03:31
Speaker
Why even bother learning? I feel like like learning to drive
Parenting Styles: The Brooklyn Checklist Culture
00:03:34
Speaker
in New York. Well, Brooklyn, like parenting is like this like competitive sport in Brooklyn where everybody's like, we got to check this box. We got to check that box, this box, that box. So they just do it because it's the next thing. because you're supposed to. The pediatrician says it's safer to learn. Even though literally never encounter a pool. Well, they go upstate. They're going to go upstate. Yeah. They go upstate or there is ocean. mean, it's questionable, but you can – It was actually easier to get to the beach in Brooklyn than it is here us. Really? Yeah. It was like a 15, 20-minute train ride down to Brighton Beach. Oh, yeah. Well, where you lived in Brooklyn. Yeah. We were pretty close. We were deep in Brooklyn. Yeah. So that made it – We were in Flatbush. The beach was more accessible because you were further south. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was deep in there. Yeah.
00:04:16
Speaker
Okay, so they didn't go in the water yesterday. They did not go in the pool. They did go in the ocean. Okay, so you're not scared of the ocean with them not knowing how to swim? i um i go with them. But I would think the pool would be less scary than the ocean.
00:04:31
Speaker
I mean, the pool, are just – More careless or like because they're just walking backwards. Oh, I see. Falling in. having snacks. Yeah. So they're not as focused on it. Whereas with the ocean, they're very aware of its presence. Right. And they're like running from the waves.
00:04:50
Speaker
But the ocean is definitely where I almost died as a child. No, yeah. And it's but it's like scary rain. There were strong currents. The There strong currents yesterday. Yeah. And you could tell like I was watching the waves and it was later in the day and the waves were unpredictable. Like you would you thought – the wave was done coming up and then there'd be another little wave. Scary.
00:05:09
Speaker
But they we got used to the rhythm. and I mean, I was just standing right there holding on to them. I mean, I used to love wave pools. Those are my real favorite thing. Yes. At the water park. Oh, I could picture you the wave pool all day jumping the waves. Maybe you've to get back wave pool. Do they still have pools? I love wave pools. Yeah, water parks. They do. Yeah. Okay.
00:05:29
Speaker
So maybe you just need some wave pool love a wave pool. Yeah, i do. Wait, why though? For my anxiety? Yeah, maybe there's something soothing about it, right? The bilateral movement or whatever, yeah.
00:05:40
Speaker
The rocking motion, I'm sure it's good for you. Well, I love the, it was the jumping that's fun. The jumping over the wave. Oh, yeah. That's in the fun. Yeah. It's been a while since I've been to a water park. Well, let's go. go to boy Mom's on the road. Knott's Berry Farm. I was looking at the Knott's Berry Farm recently. We went there, we went there ah i mean before we had a kid. Oh, yeah. I mean, I've been there a lot before. Yeah.
00:06:04
Speaker
But I mean, it's, yeah, we just waited. My kids love, like, Snoopy and they love the Peanuts characters right now. Okay. Well, so that's the place to go. Yeah.
Theme Park Comparisons: Knott's Berry Farm vs Disneyland
00:06:13
Speaker
i think And it's so compared to Disneyland, it feels free. Yeah.
00:06:17
Speaker
right it's so much cheaper yeah so now i'm like well and is it a huge difference really like i mean it's not the disney characters it's really just the ip that sets disney apart and the castle and the mat the magic thing oh the oh right you're a disney head forgot there's something about when they meet mickey mouse i want but maybe they'll react that way to meeting snoopy i'm wondering why not magical yeah snoopy's great
00:06:42
Speaker
I don't know. of Who else is there? It's just Snoopy? Is the guy with the with the little blanket there? Linus? Yeah. I don't know. They have all of them? I think they have like a section. Can you get five cent therapy?
00:06:57
Speaker
Are you interested? I mean, I'm curious what
Therapy and Social Expectations
00:07:00
Speaker
they'd say. It's kind of like getting your palm read. Like there should be just therapy booths like that. It totally goes against every probably like moral convention that they've signed on to. But.
00:07:13
Speaker
I'd be curious what like a dime store therapist would say after 10 minutes of talking to me. It doesn't feel that different from getting your palm read or having a psychic talk to you. Right.
00:07:25
Speaker
Yeah. It seems like because the the psychic and the palm reader would – this They have the same skills, right, in terms of yes I need to make assumptions about this person in a very short amount of time. But at least you're not, if you're the therapist and not the psychic, you're not pretending to predict the future or be able to talk to dead people.
00:07:43
Speaker
Like it's not like 100% bogus. It's like 50% bogus. I mean, I think that's the only way I would be a therapist is if I could just say mean things to me.
00:07:56
Speaker
i mean' be like I think it's this. Yeah. Now, i think therapy's changed a lot, right? Well, they need to keep their clients, right? and So they got to tell them what they want to hear. i don't know. And blame the mother.
00:08:10
Speaker
I'm curious. I think there's maybe a lot of toxic positivity going on instead of like maybe like a harsh. um And that's why everyone – bails on their friends all the time and they say or they need to set boundaries oh yeah i are people doing this to you no one does it to me no one no one ever does this no one's ever bailed on page except for me i mean that's i'm sure i bailed on you i've tried you actually don't allow allow i was you like you pushed for a second yesterday i was like i'm gonna get her to come to the beach party we tried we thought about it didn't try very hard i was Since I was occupied at the party, it was hard to... to guilt trip me enough. Yeah. I wanted to be a present. Well, but by the time we were ready to go, yeah the car wasn't charged enough and it was late in the day and it just... We would have been there for like 20 minutes. It would have been silly, I think.
00:09:10
Speaker
And also, yeah, we were just feeling the trio yesterday. sometimes it's good to just keep it tight. Not having to worry about other people. Yeah. And only your kids' schedule.
00:09:22
Speaker
well Well, yesterday, really, we were running around just trying to get stuff done. Wait, what's your story from yesterday?
Adult Intervention in Children's Play: Necessary or Not?
00:09:28
Speaker
Oh, we went to a playground instead of going to the beach. and In the afternoon?
00:09:32
Speaker
Yeah, at like 4 or 5 It was late. Where did you go? we went to Bronson Canyon. Have you ever been there? I've been there for birthday parties, but and only that that very beautiful area with the grass.
00:09:45
Speaker
That's where people set up bounce houses. Oh. But I haven't actually been to the playground. There's a little playground. So basically, my child was playing. There was another girl who was like a little bit younger than him.
00:09:57
Speaker
titen And me and my husband were there and the girl had two people watching her. So there were just way too many adults watching two children. never good. No, it was not good. You can't have that. So much intervention, so much like wanting to manipulate and control what's happening. like You just let them...
00:10:14
Speaker
Just let them play. So they were starting this game. You know how kids can sometimes act something out repetitively over and over together? Like they get into like a rhythm. Of course. my favorite thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because then it's predictable and fun and they know when the fun is going to happen. So they were like going up the stairs and then the girl wanted them to go down the slide at the same time.
00:10:34
Speaker
But my kid just would go down the slide when he got to the top. He didn't want to go at the same time. Yeah. So but all the other parents were like, go at the same time. Come on. Wait, wait for her. You know, like just really trying to like make it go.
00:10:49
Speaker
Just control because of some kind of like weird adult situation. Especially like convention. I've done this when trying to snap pic. You want a little photo? Yeah. With their friends. Yeah. Like with your kid and my kid, whatever. Yeah, yeah, But these are also not even friends.
00:11:04
Speaker
We don't even know that. You don't even And it wasn't the kid's mother. I was like, because they were like, You have to go home to to mummy or however British people say it. It was a British nanny? ah No, it was like it seemed like it was a grandmother and a mother. Maybe it was like a grandmother and an aunt.
00:11:21
Speaker
But I also kind of got the vibe that it might have been a grandmother and a nanny. But then did they have a British nanny? People have too much help. I didn't ask. But but they seemed, you know, when you can tell the mother's not there because they're they're way more concerned about minor things. Yeah. And any minor don't care about. And any minor thing that goes wrong, they're like, oh, no, you know. So was just a lot. Because they only care about the child's happiness. And like, they don't have to worry about any of the happiness. they think of a kid cries, it's like an adult crying. Like, it's like a big deal.
00:11:56
Speaker
Like, it just hits different when it's not your kid. Like, not that I don't care if my kid cries, but it's like, I know how often he cries. I know that he cries at everything. So how did you that?
00:12:08
Speaker
I just, I just. happening? just stay out of it? I just was like, whatever. Because then he started playing in the sand and the little girl was like, what are you doing? And he was just kind of ignoring her. And everyone was like, answer her. Say, you know, and it's like, just leave them alone. two. doesn't want talk right now. He just wants to bury his feet in the sand and play peekaboo with them. I try to talk your kid all the time and he's not interested. He ignores a lot. I mean, or he is.
00:12:35
Speaker
I don't know, but I don't even know what that would be. What are we going to diagnose him with? Selective hearing. i mean, ah it's it's symptoms of some things, but it's like he's too young to say. But i think, yeah, he could just be playing right then. He's focused on playing.
00:12:49
Speaker
Like, just let them be. You know, like, they'll a lot of child-to-child interaction is, like, them learning how to interact with each other. Yeah, you've got to let that happen. Yeah, there shouldn't be all this intervention. If you're interfering, they won't learn. And it's not about the kids. It's about the adults being, like, worried about these other adults that are there and, like, what they're thinking them. We've got all stop that. know. We've got to all doing You and I at the playground, we got to take over and just be like, yeah, stop stop doing this for each other. Okay. Let's just act how we would act. It just stresses me out. Like when there's this larger expectation of more intervention with your kid, like they're setting that up as the social norm and like you're used to being more hands off.
00:13:30
Speaker
You know? i mean, you probably feel – you're less hypervigilant than me, so you probably don't feel like this pressure when that happens the same way. Or maybe you do. Well, it's hard because other parents are so – Yes. they They intervene. Well, and you can feel – you feel like a deadbeat if you're not interviewer. You feel like an expectation that you should. and if
Parental Influence on Adolescent Development
00:13:48
Speaker
you're not, like – And it depends – you know, if someone's hitting.
00:13:51
Speaker
Well, yeah. Any physical harm, I intervene. You to put a stop to, obviously, in preventing. And then the – I mean, ideally, your kid can handle – interacting with other kids without your intervention. But they're also the same kind of parents who when you do intervene, they'll be like, it's okay.
00:14:08
Speaker
Like, you know what I mean? Do you really mean that? I don't know. But it's like, I just like pickle in, you know? And you feel, so do you feel this way? Because I obviously feel that way here all the time.
00:14:21
Speaker
But do you also more so with nannies than nannies? Other parents, by the way. What do you mean? Like feeling like I'm being judged. yeah Oh, I definitely felt that in Brooklyn.
00:14:32
Speaker
So you feel that more. In Brooklyn, I felt like they were judging me for not intervening enough in a harsh way because they were very harsh. And I was very like I'm somewhere in the middle. i don't know. But but I wasn't going to be like, hey, no, um you know, like as much as they were. Yeah. It depends on what they're doing.
00:14:52
Speaker
I mean, it was like he's punching someone in the face. No, but in you're just like, oh, you silly silly willy. It was all about toys, of course. Oh, yeah. But it was like it felt like there was this expectation that kids could do stuff that I know developmentally they're just not able to do, which is like share at like a slightly under the age of two. Like, yeah, no. It's just like not, they literally can't even conceive. that They're starting to learn how to take turns. But it's like, you actually don't have to do that in a harsh way. You can just say, now it's their turn, take it away. They get upset. you deal eat Like the harsh tone doesn't, to me, doesn't really change anything.
00:15:28
Speaker
as long as you're intervening. But they were very like like, I don't know. And I used to love teachers like that when I was older. Who were more like stern. Yeah, because it was clear. you know and then if you got them to smile, it was like a big accomplishment. Like we got them to like you. It's like the teacher in Harry Potter, like the lady, what's her name? Yeah, McGonagall. Professor McGonagall. Yeah, yeah, yeah. like, this is a person you're kind of afraid of, but if you make her smile. Then, whoa, what? you That's like a huge, like, you feel so good about yourself, a huge confidence boost.
00:16:01
Speaker
There's something to that. I mean, it was the same in theater school. But with under two-year-old. Yeah, and that's the thing. It's like different with older kids. They need a little bit more, like, of a gentle touch, I think. And also, it's different with a nanny than a mom. Yeah.
00:16:16
Speaker
Like if your nanny is like that with you, that's not going to affect you for the rest of it. Like it's like less rooted in like forming who you are as a person. Well, it's supposed to be like,
00:16:28
Speaker
you're supposed The child is supposed to be conflicted. How they become a person is feeling conflicted about your authority, but also their love for you. that's What does that fre That's like a Freudian thing. Oh, Freud. Yeah, you're into Freud. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
00:16:44
Speaker
You know they don't teach it anymore when people become therapists. That's the problem with therapy. That's literally the problem. Do you love Freud because he said everyone's in love with their mother? Yeah, obviously. As a boy mom, it's a very important thing. Yeah.
00:16:57
Speaker
ah the original boy-mom meaning. But I think there's a lot to it and with the dads and the competition. I mean, to me, I see it every day. Competitive? Competing with the father. oh yeah. Which think happens more as...
00:17:10
Speaker
oh So you think boys get competitive with their fathers? Yeah. But more so your kids young for that. Well, did I ever even my kids are young for Did i ever tell you my Freudian story? I might have mentioned it on this podcast before that one time for April Fool's.
00:17:26
Speaker
I was very young, too young to know how fucking weird this was. ah But for April Fool's, I dressed up as my mother to try to trick my father. I put tennis balls in my shirt for boobs. How old were you? I must have been like six or five, like like too young to really understand what the hell I was doing. And my mom let me. She was like, okay. I like put on her clothes. like That's so cute. I think it's really cute.
00:17:55
Speaker
Is that cute? Yeah, no, that's cute. a little weird though like it's like a little classic father-daughter thing yeah so there you go yeah it's a little weird yeah so i guess that's pretty freudian and i'm sure my dad recognized the i think he even made a joke about freud when i did that oh well he would yeah he would no your dad everything you say about your dad he just gets better and better he was the best yeah for sure no wonder you wanted to marry him i mean my my kids still will bring up like Why can't I marry you? Really? Yes. Oh. It's sad. And then want to marry his brother too.
00:18:29
Speaker
long Isn't sweet? And then when they play house, they're like mother and father. Who's the mother? the older one? Usually, yeah. Because that's like the, like they fight. They want to each, they both want to be the mom. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because they know that that's like number one.
00:18:44
Speaker
You know, we read that, that Cats, Millions of Cats book. And then, so then they played this game. My husband and my kid played this game of like, no, I'm the prettiest. No, I am. Like for like a while they were going around doing that.
00:18:57
Speaker
It was really cute. really I mean, hard to say. i am. I am. Yeah. Who's the prettiest? I don't know. Yeah. We'll leave it to the judges and viewers like you.
00:19:08
Speaker
Call in. Become friends with us and you'll know what they look like. Yeah, and then you too will not be able to decide. the preier as the all Read Millions of Cats. Great book. It is a great book.
00:19:19
Speaker
ah Yeah, I remember you telling us
Media and Childhood Perceptions of Illness
00:19:22
Speaker
that. Or maybe it was you or your or Mike. um But yeah, it's a really great, it's a really fun book. I mean, I loved sad, dark stuff when I was a kid.
00:19:30
Speaker
I loved. Did you ever fantasize about being an orphan when you were younger? or That's what all the story. Yeah, it's like every story. It's like all you think about. about being an orphan. Yeah. Because it's like some sort of. wish fulfillment thing. Well, I think it's also this fear. It's like a pre-planning for the fear of like, how would I survive without It's the worst thing that could ever happen.
00:19:49
Speaker
What would I do? You're like, ooh, but then I wouldn't have any. But I also had, i also had the weird thing i was remembering is like in elementary school fantasizing about having cancer and like getting lots of attention. Oh, no. Did you ever have that?
00:20:03
Speaker
didn't. It's pretty histrionic, but. I definitely, I watched A Walk to Remember like on repeat at just the right time. somebody have cancer in that? Yeah. Yeah. It's Mandy Moore. Oh, And so it definitely like got in my head. Okay. Yeah. It made me think that cancer was very common among young people. And perhaps glamorous. Yeah. In a way. Yeah. Because she's like.
00:20:26
Speaker
The beloved – she's never done anything wrong in her life. And she never will because she dies before she has the chance to. She dies in the movie? You've never seen A Walk to Remember. Does she have like prom at the at the hospital or something like that? No, they don't make too big of a deal
00:20:44
Speaker
They get married. Oh. I think – So she grows up. No, I think it's the last – I think it's senior year of high school. Okay. Is the movie. And then – at the end of it, they get married and they have like a summer together before she dies. The one summer.
00:21:03
Speaker
But there's something about death that makes life like matter more. oh of course. Yeah. So it's like the more imminent it is the better, in a way, of course not the better your life is.
00:21:15
Speaker
But like the more it matters, the more I could see getting into like every texture, every sunset, you know, like I take it for granted. that's beauty of the movie. Yeah, it is. But for you, you just clamorized wanting attention. No, I thought like, yeah, the all the boys would have crushes on me because i they'd want to like rescue me and make me feel better. But that's actually – and it's really the opposite, right? Like the number of wives who have cancer who get lost by their husbands. Okay, but that's not elementary school. Like – Because in elementary school, they wouldn't actually have to do any of the unglamorous parts of the kid being sick. Right. You're just thinking they could just be like, oh, it would be sad. and And I remember everybody being like more into being close to the sad person who is going through something. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Except for while everybody's parents were getting divorced. Nobody really cared about that. Like because it was too common.
00:22:05
Speaker
It was just whenever a girl would cry in the bathroom, I remember everybody was like, are your parents getting divorced? Because that was just like why girls cried in the bathroom. That's so sad. I know. It was sad. it was sad.
00:22:16
Speaker
i just had no reference point at that age, so I just had zero. i was just like, that that is sad, but also I have no personal experience that can relate. Yeah, you never felt like your parents would get divorced.
00:22:27
Speaker
No, I felt like they were trapped with each other forever. did you ever want them know some people like wish their parents. I didn't because I would think about them alone and it would just make me sad.
Family Dynamics: Resilience and Balance
00:22:38
Speaker
You know, I was like, as much as they fight or whatever, which was, you know, with three kids, how are you not going to fight? And they'd been together since they were in their early twenty s So it's like you grow up together pretty much when you do that.
00:22:50
Speaker
um But no, I never thought they would. But I, you know, they had some ups and downs. And my dad had to go away for research sometimes. oh yeah, he'd be gone for months. like months at a time. Yeah, that was tough. There was one time like that that really was like hard on the family. Because my mom was just there with three kids, like without him.
00:23:13
Speaker
No. How did she do it? i don't know. Did other people come around, like relatives or anything? because I was thinking about it was like, why didn't she – it's like if I had had that discussion with my husband, I would have been like, I need help then. Like it's like if you're going to do this, I need help. Like like hired help, something. Yeah, something. But she didn't do that because she was from that generation of just like I do it all. I just like do it all, you know, like in like immigrant, daughter of immigrants, like – So it's like, yeah, she just worked full time. I mean, granted, two of the kids were in high school. So it's like they were getting to school on their own and all of that. okay But it's still like emotionally a time where they need their parents around, you know, and like there's a lot going on. Right. So the emotional needs need to be.
00:23:57
Speaker
Yeah. But there's only one person do There's only one person and they are burnt out. I was 10. Did she complain? i She just like – Did she complain? No. I feel like they'd ever complain. She's not a complainer.
00:24:14
Speaker
It just comes out more in like being, you know, the way it would naturally would. Yeah, of course. craziness. I mean, you know, because 10. It was like were the ages.
00:24:28
Speaker
i mean and she was working full- time I think also the type of job you have plays a role. Like she was like, you know, basically therapizing all these like university students. Oh, yeah. Right. So she just taking on the load. Just the emotional load. So many people. The amount. Yeah.
00:24:46
Speaker
So she would do that all day long and then and to come home and deal with teenagers. Yes. Preteen. Like slamming doors and like. My brother, i mean, either, i don't know. He was like, I don't know if he was on the verge of being religious yet, but like stuff was happening. yeah Yes, we were, yeah. I mean, i don't remember. i just remember that it was hard and that I got pneumonia and I had to stay in the hospital. ah when When your dad was gone? Yeah. And she like slept on the floor next to my hospital bed.
00:25:19
Speaker
God, you really needed attention, didn't i Well, i did get a card. I remember getting a card from the whole class because I had to. was all worth it Yes. I had to miss the ski trip. But, but. i Ski trip? Well, it was like one day. But I mean, I was 10. Fancy school. But it was, we went tubing. I mean, and well, no, it's also in Quebec. What else are you going to do for a day trip? Like, but that. But I remember getting the card and being like, huh, this doesn't feel as good as I thought it would.
00:25:47
Speaker
Is it all worth it? Maybe it's not so glamorous to be sick and get a card because it's just like, That everyone is forced to write. It's just a card. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But I had to miss two. No one wrote, i'm I've secretly been in love with you for a long time. and I mean, that that was, yeah, fifth and sixth grade were more like that. Yeah, really? Oh, yeah. I was i was like getting out there.
00:26:09
Speaker
Fifth grade. that's Fifth and sixth, that's when it starts, kind of. Not you? Yeah. say yeahda But you were a very you were a very confident child, right? I don't know
Adolescence: Confidence and Identity Challenges
00:26:21
Speaker
what I was. i i mean, I remember ah feeling like I was the peacemaker. Like people would fight and I had to like get them all to get along.
00:26:31
Speaker
So I think there was some kind of ah like people pleasing going on. But were you a confident child? I don't think I was. Did you feel good about yourself? What does that mean? Like, or maybe asking that question is the answer because it's like I would know if I wasn't, right?
00:26:47
Speaker
but Yeah. Yeah. I mean, later on high school. you said you felt like you were really good in the play. Yeah, I thought I was great. But then I started high school in seventh grade and then like, you know, obviously had an eating disorder like everybody else. Like,
00:27:01
Speaker
You know, so that's when then I did not feel good. Yeah. Puberty when it really hits like there's a huge but normal. That's a pretty normal trajectory. Yeah. Yeah. So was a lot of just like, yeah, look, opening a 17 magazine and crying, you know, like that kind of thing. Tori Amos. I mean, I feel like we've talked about that before.
00:27:19
Speaker
Were you but I was confident before that, I think. Yeah. I think kids it generally goes downhill around. Yeah. How do we prevent that? We can't. You can. think parents don't realize how present they should be when their kids are starting at like 10. Yeah. As they're approaching adolescence. Because they think that like the kid kind of has got it Yeah. They think it's late. they hands off. When actually the hands off period is supposed to be four to – I mean to – yeah. Kids will need you when they're five or six whatever. But like –
00:27:54
Speaker
In terms of all the brain development stuff happening, it's like until they're three, it's really crucial. And then again, starting at like 10 until they're 25. Whoa.
00:28:05
Speaker
five wo Because that's the end of adolescence. Yeah. It's not until you're like 25. It's ended already? For you? No excuse. It's over, okay? You can stop. But there's a lot of kids pushing their parents away a lot those ages. Yeah, you're supposed to be available.
00:28:25
Speaker
Right, right, right. It's like cats. Make yourself very available. Let them come to you. yeah. But I think doing that, instead of the parents just giving up and being like, my kid hates me, I don't want to deal with them. Right. I think that maybe is what contributes to the lack of confidence because the parent becomes afraid of the kid and doesn't want to deal with
Mentorship's Role in Teen Development
00:28:43
Speaker
them, whatever. Right. But if you make yourself available, that would help. mean, my parents tried. I remember one time I was like crying and listening to Tori Amos in my room. And I was probably crying kind of loud. Yeah.
00:28:56
Speaker
performative so though no I No, I just was really naturally crowded. And my dad knocked on my door and asked if there was anything i could do he could do. And I said no.
00:29:07
Speaker
But the fact that that memory stuck with me. yeah and that' That's really important. That's good. But then that might have been the only... like it like they might if He was like, oh, she said no. So I think that applies. i mean, well, his parents were very hands off. I mean, yeah, that's another story.
00:29:23
Speaker
But um no, and they say also having another adult that you trust that's close with your kid. Oh, yeah. I definitely did not have that. Yeah, no, i I fell prey to adults that I shouldn't have trusted. Really? yeah. There was a teacher at the school that was like sketchy. like Really? That was hanging out with all of us. He like hit on my friend. like Oh, I think you told me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like, that you know, if you don't have those other adults, like you know be desperate to people who are interested in kids that age will come in and and really treat them like people, you know? Right. And they can fall prey to that for sure.
00:29:58
Speaker
and even if it's not even like a – sexual predator thing. It's still like, I want to be this person. Well, it's still someone. it's like whoever that person is, they're going to trust them because they see them in a way that's way more validating than maybe their parents do because their parents are used to being like, oh, whatever, you'll be OK, which I think is maybe from childhood that we got like we talked about with the crying.
00:30:22
Speaker
But I guess as a teenager, it's like we have to really like see them more because otherwise, I mean the same thing, like my my brother, yeah, he wasn't a predator, but he, it was somebody who was religious who was like, come, you know, like, like they're susceptible at that age, you know?
00:30:38
Speaker
um and I don't think it's a bad thing that my brother turned religious. Like, I don't think it was then of the world at all. Like he's happy, but like, it's just, it's a time where you're looking for adults who really see you and it's hard to find because adults are busy trying to survive. you know so the ones that really do see the teenagers and take time with them a lot of the time have an ulterior motive right of one kind or another yeah and it doesn't have to be you can have those figures and they can be good they can be it just seems harder to find these days like who liked you Yeah, who I got some sort of any kernel of like recognition. Validation. Yes. Like yeah you're good at this. Yeah. like You should write for the newspaper. Just them like saying little things about what I was good at. That's cool. Which I never heard from my parents.
00:31:32
Speaker
Because I was bad at everything, like all the sports they were trying to get me to do. Oh, they wanted you to do sports? Okay. I know. Look at me. You should have been ballet. I did. I was actually not bad at ballet. Okay, there you go. See? This is why I should be the psychic or whatever. I see you. I see you. No, I had teachers who totally – they were like, Rina could be a doctor or an accountant. And I was like, felt so not seen. Oh, yeah. Oh, I had – okay. Did I ever say this on the podcast? I had a teacher once in seventh grade, the social studies teacher –
00:32:05
Speaker
So he was a real creep. He named every girl in the class who he thought could be a model. How he not get fired? And then he said that I would be an accountant.
00:32:16
Speaker
Ew. ah I can't do math. Not even the model that plays an accountant? A straight up accountant because he was just like, you are an ugly, boring person. He didn't say that. I'm saying that that was what was implied by saying that that all of these girls should be models and I should be an accountant because I was an ugly person. What subject was he teaching? Social studies, like history. Social studies. I mean, it's...
00:32:39
Speaker
History is social studies. we I don't think we have that topic. And I bet he was, what, hideous? or He was like a short, fat, bearded glasses wearing – he was like a football coach too. was power tripping. He was power tripping. Yeah, but that's like a crazy thing say. it's really messed up. And how old were you guys?
00:32:58
Speaker
You were like 12. The worst age to hear it at. Yeah. Obviously, it stuck with me forever. I was just like, okay, I am ugly and I'm going to be an accountant, but I – Also, bad at math, so that's not going to go great for God. but I'll never forget Thank God a teacher in. anyone else at that age telling me. That you looked good. That I was good at anything in, like, junior high.
00:33:21
Speaker
So where did you – so you found your confidence in the little kernels from the teachers? but in high school. yeah And then later you had more people who validated you. um Or did anybody. I mean, I've never had this like outside. I've always like known logically that it would be great for me if I could have a mentor.
00:33:40
Speaker
yeah Or like somebody who. And it's like never. I've never. I've never felt that from anyone. There was actually. Wait, there was one teacher in theater school, but she didn't want to be a mentor. But I was like her little favorite.
00:33:52
Speaker
And that was something that yeah you just being a favorite. Yeah, just stop because nobody else liked me. And the I mean, theater they were all just, Rina, get your shit together. You know, like because I was undiagnosed ADD. They're like, just pull your socks up. But you were someone's favorite. Yeah. She was like, oh, like I would get to class late and she'd be like, class can start. Rina's here.
00:34:13
Speaker
i know. was like, don't know. It passive aggressive. No. And I like forgot to wear the right kind of pants once. And she swa she swapped pants with me. i got to wear her cashmere pants.
00:34:24
Speaker
Theater school, no boundaries. Did go in the bathroom and change? I don't remember. yeah Yeah, maybe she liked me She was awesome though. She has good vibes to me.
00:34:37
Speaker
Some people who weren't her favorite did not feel the same way. I had a teacher in high school. Which also makes it awkward, right? Because you're like, oh, it sucks to be you. To not be. Who was in high school? You a fave? Or someone you were their fave?
00:34:51
Speaker
My newspaper advisor. newspaper. Liked me a lot. So you were getting into journalism pretty young. Yeah, I was like, right. I was just writing. And then I actually stopped writing for the newspaper because I felt like I was being too censored. ah And she tried to talk me out of it, but I just didn't like.
00:35:09
Speaker
Because of her editing? like Because of not her. It was just like the administration had problems with what I was writing. Oh, really? a school, like negative things about like the testing, and standardized testing. Oh, that's cool. So I was like, I can't.
00:35:22
Speaker
I'm not doing anymore. You should have submitted to the local paper instead. That's a good point. I need to go back in time and tell you. Yeah, that's when you go bigger. heer yeah like this Call the New York Times.
00:35:34
Speaker
But and so how does that translate? We have to make sure that we're encouraging, but we don't want to be too encouraging. or you know You don't want to tell them something that's not true. Right. But to find, like, I didn't want someone to tell me I was actually really good at soccer. Right. I just needed someone to say, oh, but this is...
00:35:51
Speaker
a different thing that you're good at and you should do more maybe pursue it yeah yeah yeah that's all i would have taken so i think you gotta like with my older child i don't go like yeah you're amazing at soccer i have a boy mom story about that by the way oh okay um soccer story just okay so we went to the park the other day and there were some older kids Who are going to be in school. With him. With my child. Same.
Integrating into Boy Culture for Acceptance
00:36:18
Speaker
was like, this is a great opportunity. Same.
00:36:20
Speaker
Not necessarily the same same year. Yeah. Okay. And so i was like, yeah, get go out there and meet them, play with them. He already knew one of them kind of. um But he is not used to playing with boys.
00:36:35
Speaker
And as a boy mom, I'm not used to seeing boys. Yeah. being so rough with each other. it was shocking to me how rough they were with each other. And I just had to look away and none of the other parents seemed fazed by it. so I was just trying to- Maybe all have brothers, so they're just like used to it. I think they do. So he was playing with them on the playground, but they had already been playing together for a while. So, you know, they already had an established dynamic. They already went to school together. They were friends. yeah So then my kid coming along, you know, he's messing things up. And then they went to go play soccer. And it's clear that they had soccer practice. And my kid was just, there was also a Frisbee. So they would be playing soccer and then he would throw a Frisbee at them. And Mike was like, they're playing soccer. Like stop messing up their game. And the dad who was with them was extremely patient and trying to help my kid play. But
00:37:27
Speaker
it's i I never wanted to be a soccer mom. I didn't want to be going to soccer practice right four times a week. So they that young? They're all yeah five. They all know how to play soccer. And my kid just doesn't, and then he just doesn't know what he's doing.
00:37:38
Speaker
But that's okay. It's like we said, we don't have to pretend like soccer is his thing if it's not. I just don't think it's his thing. It's not his thing. But then he wants, that's what the boys are doing. And if I want him to have friends. Well, he might be friends with more girls at this point. I mean, we'll see. Or a different. He did play with types of boys. No, we found a kid.
00:37:55
Speaker
at a party we went to this weekend was also going to be in school with him. Yeah. And he, his vibe was a lot more gentle and like. Yeah. Because he and my boys are like this. Boy, I know, I understand that it's normal, but I'm just not used to seeing it. Because your boys are not like this. Because, well, and they just don't spend a lot of time with other boys.
00:38:15
Speaker
Uh-huh. And they're not like that with each other yet because my younger one is just not, I think, not quite old enough to be like that. Right. Although yours is kind. But mine's not the – it's like I said, like it's all relative because then when mine hangs out with boys that are even more like that, he's like, ah. Gentle prince. Well, he just is like, what is happening? Yeah, yeah. And that's how – yeah, we were all – just not equipped to handle that type But does naturally love like throwing – he just recently figured out how to catch balls, which is cool.
00:38:48
Speaker
He can like catch a big ball, catch a little ball. Yeah. He did once. Yeah. Oh, that's huge. So he's like – whenever someone has a ball, he wants to play. He wants to like catch. He's jock. He's jock. Yeah. And so I guess we we just need to nurture where whatever direction they're leaning in. Yeah. Put him in the box of jock and never let him out. I mean, I won't let him play football. I've said many times. My husband is like, come on. I'm like, no. He's built for it.
00:39:11
Speaker
He's built for it, man. Come on. strong, baby. But he's – no, I mean, i yeah, I don't think so. But he's he does like it for now. I mean, we'll see. We'll see. he likes playing with balls. He loves playing catch and and kicking. Yeah, he likes both. And your husband is that kind of dad too. like he's He is. He's like more classic dad. Playing catch with his son. yeah yeah Yeah, but if he wasn't into it, they wouldn't he's also happy to to go around and be like, I'm the prettiest. you know i guess doesn't care. You know, like he'll go with whatever. He's multifaceted. He's very yes and, you know, like. Right, right. Whatever the kids are doing. Yeah, he'll get it. So you don't want to teach him. But is there any inclination to teach him soccer or you're just going to let it lie?
00:39:56
Speaker
I mean, hopefully he at least over time, if I can just get through it, this sort of pickup soccer game can happen frequently enough that he will learn the basics of it. I mean, they'll have do they have like a gym class? like I don't think they have PE anymore. That's so weird. So I don't know. I mean, I think they they probably play soccer at recess.
00:40:20
Speaker
Yeah. Well, he'll be doing something else. So he'll either be doing something else or he'll eventually figure it out. Right. Right. yeah because He's just not used to it. He's not he's never had recess with – like these kids have had experience with recess.
00:40:34
Speaker
So there there's a lot that he's going to learn yeah at school. How many classes are there? Is it two? growinging Three. That's a lot of kids. Yeah. So I don't know who's going to be in his class. I don't know if he's going to know anyone. Right. Right.
00:40:50
Speaker
But I'm sure he'll find other eccentric children. It's an eccentric neighborhood. i can't believe there's enough kids to have three classes. That's a lot of kids. That's how many kids there Who are these like 70 other kids this age? I know that. We don't know. Because know. We know a lot of the neighborhood kids. Yeah. They must just all be in preschool or like away. Yeah. We just don't see them. Yeah. They're just hidden. Just literally don't see them.
00:41:13
Speaker
They're taken to their institution. I'm so curious who these people are, I guess. I'm sure I'll, like, recognize more than I – I'll be like, oh, yeah, that kid who i haven't seen since before they went to daycare. like Yeah.
00:41:28
Speaker
So how – yeah. How do I cope with boys being rough? Well, how do you cope? i just can't look. But I don't – and I don't know how much of it is normal. I think the kids are being – I think they're being rougher than they should be. Well, I think you know when your kid is really getting hurt. like Right, if they're happy or not. You can hear their – It's like if he's withstanding and he's coming back for more rats. Yeah, if he really didn't like it, he would walk away. He would just leave and stop. You would think. You would think. I mean, unless he's like a masochist. That's like my dog who's like, get away from me. And I'm like, walk away. leave. Yeah.
00:42:15
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, like, it's easy when they're little because you can just get in between them or pick them up. Like, you have total control. Yeah. But as they age, as we know, control slowly leaves us.
00:42:26
Speaker
Oh, we are totally weaned, by the way. You're weaned? He went to sleep without it. When? Last night. Oh. And the night before. so it's been two nights? Two nights and no in the morning and no in – like, just done. Whoa.
00:42:40
Speaker
That's crazy. He's doing it. I mean, I don't know what naps are going to be like when I'm on my own, but yeah, I explained. So he didn't have any for nap yesterday. He was a little bit, but he wasn't even that upset about it last night. He was just asking. He was like, I want it. Oh, he was asking for it. asked for it. Oh, see. Yeah. And we gave him like a little bit to thought forgot about No, no, no. But I said it's for little boys and you're a big boy now. And he's like, I am a big boy. And then- Now he's going to see my kid doing it and be like, you're a little boy. But he also didn't seem that phase. language you're using, find problematic. He didn't seem that phase, which is like really what I was looking for. It's like, is he really going to freak out?
00:43:19
Speaker
But he was just like a little bit upset. He drank some water. And was like, got went to sleep. Wow. Yeah, that was it. That's crazy. Because I had already been separating it from sleep, like doing it, yeah yeah unlatching. And then he, you know, so he's kind of used to doing that now. So he's just taking out that one thing.
00:43:36
Speaker
and And it was fine. he napping without it? He's been, well, we've had we've just been doing like nap in the car. Like he just falls asleep in the car lately. Like, but he did one time. Yes. do you go out of your way to drive around to get him to sleep? We drive around. Well, we just put him in the car once we know he's tired and then he falls asleep pretty fast. Like, oh yeah.
00:44:00
Speaker
Like, but sometimes he naps late. I mean, the nap, I'm just not sure how long the nap is going to stick around or what's going to happen with the nap. So I'm like, either way, I'd rather your problem. anyway I'd rather not be breastfeeding and then he doesn't nap like. It's like that that's what was driving me insane. Like like I can't – like it's like if I'm going to do that, you better go to sleep. Yeah. Yeah. like So so i'm god I'm glad that's ah out of the picture. And if if I don't need to worry about the nap, like we can just be out all day. Like there's no time limit. Like there's no like come back, go out, come back. You know, like you can just do whatever. so Yeah, the only hard thing –
00:44:41
Speaker
Because we like when we drove back yesterday, we drove back after bedtime. Because I guess the only if you if you skip nap and then you go somewhere and then you drive back at like 4, then they'll fall asleep.
00:44:56
Speaker
But he still goes to bed at a regular time. Okay. Because if he's tired What's a regular time, Lena? 9. Let's hear what this regular time is. It's 9 p.m. Yeah. We go to I mean, like by the time we start getting ready at like 730 or eight, but we have been doing this thing where we all get clean before bed now.
00:45:14
Speaker
And then we all we all just do everything together like one at a time. But like like shower, shower. He showered for the first time last night. How do you like the shower? Well, we change the shower head so we can it's like you can pull it out and like so it's easier.
00:45:28
Speaker
Less scary than just this thing above, you know? So you all took your shower. We all took our showers, then we all brush our teeth, and then we all go into bed. and then I, you know, he falls asleep and I get out of bed and go watch Dawson's Creek. So I'm not.
00:45:41
Speaker
soma Yeah, I know. It's actually not that bad, even the later. I'm getting into even the later episodes. It's not that bad. It's not the end the episode.
00:45:53
Speaker
I'll
00:45:56
Speaker
This is good. I think it's fine.