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Episode 5 - White derangement theory
74 Plays5 years ago
Faisal Khan Suri was giving his suggestions to the Justice Committee in the House of Commons on how to combat online hate when Conservative MP Michael Cooper confronted him by reading from the Christchurch shooter's deranged manifesto. We explore that moment and its fallout, and share a broader discussion on the ideology and goals behind white supremacist terrorism as well as how to defeat it.
Further reading
The Guardian: The 'white replacement theory' motivates alt-right killers the world over
Hansard of Justice Committee meeting with Faisal Khan Suri
CBC premiere of Digging in the Dirt - 9/14/19 at 7pm
MP Michael Cooper disparaged 'goat herder cultures' in 2008 law class discussion, lawyers claim
PressProgress: UCP Candidate Complained ‘White Supremacist Terrorists’ Are Treated Unfairly, Leaked Messages Show
Recommended
Transcript
Provocative Opening: Financing Hamas?
00:00:00
Speaker
Is it true that Progress Alberta is financing Hamas? Take you down like they took down care.
Introduction and Territory Acknowledgment
00:00:28
Speaker
Friends and enemies, welcome to The Progress Report. I am your host, Duncan Kinney, here recording today from a relatively brightly lit, you know, compared to times past, basement here in Treaty Six territory.
Meet the Co-hosts: Omar and Faisal
00:00:40
Speaker
Our guest co-host today are Omar Mualim and Faisal Khan Suri. Welcome to the show.
00:00:45
Speaker
Thanks for having us, thank you. Hi. So I do want to introduce these fine gentlemen before we get into the meat of it. Omar Mualim is an award-winning Edmonton journalist and author of the forthcoming book, Praying to the West. It's a travel memoir about Muslims in the Americas. He's also a friend, and our daughters are roughly the same age, so you know, full disclosure. Yeah, but they don't get along that well, so my topic keeps bullying your topic. It's really not that much of a conflict of interest. The real conflict is when they go to the playground together.
00:01:13
Speaker
Yeah, that's when
Faisal's Work Against Racism and Islamophobia
00:01:14
Speaker
shit gets real. And then we also have Faisal Khan Suri. Faisal is the president of the Alberta Muslim Public Affairs Council. It's an organization that does a lot of great work, both combating racism and Islamophobia. He's also a huge champion of civic engagement in the Muslim community. So both of y'all, welcome. Thanks for coming. Thanks for having us.
00:01:33
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's true. It is pretty much a death match, though, whenever our children are in the same room. So maybe not. She's just got that Napoleon syndrome, man. I don't know. Your child is very small. She's wee, but she like, I don't know, she walks around life like it's her first day in prison every day. Don't touch my stuff. That's how she enters the playground. Don't touch my stuff. It's my zone. I own this.
00:02:00
Speaker
And Faisal actually brought his his his kid his kid is considerably older than our kid though So our kids though, so you brought him to the office today. You had to take care of he's only nine years old But apparently it looks like he's only nine. He's only nine years old actually just send him to buy me cigarettes I wish I'd known he was nine
00:02:19
Speaker
I mean, whatever works.
Contentious Encounter with MP Michael Cooper
00:02:21
Speaker
The reason why we brought Omar and Faisal in here today is for a relatively serious subject, and that is, Faisal, you had a bit of a run-in with a member of parliament from the Edmonton area recently.
00:02:35
Speaker
Yeah, it was fun. And it was fun for quite a few days. And, uh, and the, the guy who you ran, it had the run in with his name is Michael Cooper. He's an MP for, uh, Edmonton, North Edmonton slash St. Albert. That's great. He's got mostly signing about it and just kind of a little chunk of North Edmonton, I think. And your, the context of your run in with him was you were speaking to the federal government's justice committee.
00:03:03
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, for sure. It was a good opportunity and we were invited by the committee itself, the Justice and Human Rights Committee there and we're presenting an online hate. So we're amongst many fantastic organizations who made the recommendations and produced some missions and how to combat online hate speech.
Mass Shootings: Online Hate Links
00:03:21
Speaker
So this Justice Committee is...
00:03:23
Speaker
having hearings it's it's it's in session it's meeting it's calling people like you and other people you know to come and speak and come and give recommendations and you were one of those people who came and spoke and gave recommendation that's right and in the context of you
00:03:39
Speaker
doing that um you know i think it's worth playing what set off michael cooper before we get into the reaction before what he even said because what you said is again i think it's just worth having it on the record it's worth having having people listen to it before we even talk about it so so here it is online hate influences real life hate to be quite blunt about this online hate is an ashley enabler a precursor uh
00:04:06
Speaker
and a decontributer to not just real-life hate, but to murder. I think we've seen a lot of recent tragedies that have happened across the world. In January 2017, a Quebec City mosque killer, Alexandria Bissonnette, gunned down six Muslim men in execution style, where he came into the mosque with two guns and fired more than 800 rounds. The evidence from Bissonnette's computer showed he repeatedly sought content about anti-immigrant, alt-right,
00:04:33
Speaker
and conservative commentators. Mass murders, US dependence on Donald Trump, and about the arrival of Muslims, immigrants in southern Quebec. In October 2018, white nationalist Robert Bowers murdered 11 people and injured seven more at the shooting inside the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh. An attack again that appears to have been motivated by anti-Semitism, inspired by its extensive involvement in white supremacy and outright online networks. In March 2019, a lone gunman armed with semi-automatic weapons burst into the mosque in Christchurch, New Zealand.
00:05:04
Speaker
this white nationalist, which was a gruesome terrorist attack, was broadcasted live on Facebook and Twitter, and 51 worshippers were killed. So this clip for me was extremely uncontroversial to me. Well, glad to hear, because we all felt the same way that was sitting in that room that day. Yeah, I mean, to be honest, and some of the words that we were quoting there, when we were talking about conservative commentators in a speech that we made,
00:05:34
Speaker
We were actually quoting words that were that were actually printed for the Montreal Gazette back in 2015 when that happened. Those weren't our words. These are the words have been used prior to that. And there was a lot of research done in terms of a the conservative members commentators that for whatever reason that is that they've gone in and done some lookups on these individuals.
00:05:56
Speaker
I mean, it seems like common sense.
Conservative Media Influence on Violence
00:05:58
Speaker
And it's one of those things where I think you have to like suspend your disbelief to pretend it's not true, to pretend it's not, you know, real. I mean, when, when I listened to it, maybe it's because I'm, you know, I'm a little bit more progressive, um, left of center. When I listened to it to me, it sounds like you're reading the ingredients office cereal box. You know, you're just saying like, this is what it is. This is what goes into it.
00:06:25
Speaker
Exactly and that was the whole intent of that but but I think I don't know What do you like what do you guys it when conservatives hear that when they hear? people People on the left or just anybody talk about Online white supremacy as the the sort of precursor of these hate crimes. Do they hear it the same way that?
00:06:49
Speaker
that I hear when they talk about video games being to blame. Are we hearing it the same way? Because when they say video games, I laugh at that. When we say online hate speech, do they laugh at that too?
00:07:05
Speaker
Well, one is a part of a larger political project and one is video games.
American Influence on Canadian Hate Crimes
00:07:10
Speaker
You know, like Bissonette obsessively visited the pages of like Tucker Carlson and Laura Ingraham, you know, David Duke, Alex Jones, Richard Spencer. And let's not forget they had, they had recorded the number of hits, like how many times this person went there repetitively. 93 times Alexander Bissonette visited the Twitter account of Ben Shapiro, you know, the month before the shooting.
00:07:34
Speaker
And it's not just that he was accessing this content. It was also that he idolized these mass shooters, right? These mass shooters were someone who were doing something that he agreed with, something that he obviously thought was good and that he obviously wanted to repeat. He spent hours looking up the manifestos and the actions of the shooter in Charleston at the black church. I'm not gonna say his name.
00:08:03
Speaker
Um, you know, the, the work of Mark, uh, the person who murdered the, um, 14 women in, uh, at Montreal polytechnique, like these, uh, obsessively, uh, going back and looking at these people as heroes is part of the project, right?
00:08:20
Speaker
Well, I think it goes back into into the perception in terms of a is that sure, these individuals, these individuals are visiting so and so these conservative members. But what is the perception of what? How do they get influence? What are the warnings by two? And by no means do we mean by the fact that when we when we had quoted those words again for the mantra gazette, that we had quoted those words, the intent is not to show the fact that a
00:08:46
Speaker
progressive conservatism um Would be any linkage would there be any linkage to violent extremism? Absolutely not that was definitely not the intent The intent is to make sure that something's happening and something's triggering the minds of these individuals That somehow there is a point of influence what causing you want I can relate to that and how they would twist the meaning of the context those words that they read or what the
00:09:10
Speaker
with the individuals follow in their minds it's coming to be completely 360-100 degree turn on that and what they think what that is and it's hard to say and it's important to note with the Quebec shooter that
00:09:25
Speaker
All these, the people that he went to, the conservative voices that he seemed to follow the most, according to the records, were all mainstream voices. I mean, I know Richard Spencer was in there as well, but the ones that he went to the most were Ben Shapiro and Coulter, Sean Hannity. These are not fringe voices. These are the establishment of American conservatism. What's also interesting about that too, though, is that
00:09:54
Speaker
French media in Quebec has no shortage of Islamophobic media personalities. They have this whole cottage industry called Radio Poubaix, which, you know, sort of the bread and butter of it is othering Muslims and being provocative about it. And they say things on there. It's just like Daniel Smith, like Times of thousands. You know, I mean, they say things on there that Sean Hannity wouldn't dare say.
00:10:16
Speaker
Really? Really. Within I
White Supremacy Ideology and Media Accountability
00:10:19
Speaker
think the first 48 hours of the Quebec City Mosque, one of the most popular personalities, it was either King Arthur or Eric Duham. I can't remember which one. I might be wrong. He was in the middle of reading the obituary of one of the victims of the Quebec City Mosque,
00:10:40
Speaker
And he went on a nine minute tirade about how this doesn't make any mention of the fact that he had all these health violations in his butchery and his grocery store. And he started desecrating. Right, so that's how extreme it is in Quebec.
00:10:59
Speaker
media. And also it's worth pointing out that, you know, Radio Pueblo also kind of transcends political lines too. You have both a, it's mostly conservative talk radio, but you have a lot of liberal people who listen to it as well. Alexander Bissonnette did not seem to be influenced by them.
00:11:15
Speaker
that's really fascinating to me at least they all have presence on the media they were not in his top you know followership right so what does that tell us that there's something about the american islamophobia that is particularly violent and i think what it is is this ingredient of
AI and Social Media's Role in Curbing Hate Speech
00:11:35
Speaker
the second amendment
00:11:36
Speaker
of a Second Amendment, you know, gun rights rhetoric and getting those two together, getting the vilification, the demonizing of a minority group, plus this equally impassioned rhetoric about how we need to protect our guns, we need to valorize our gun culture, those two things together. But there is a can push people over the edge.
00:12:01
Speaker
I mean, the Canadian connection here is still, I mean, we're still talking about the Quebec mass shooting. We'll get to the kind of Michael Cooper reaction, but like the police interrogation of Bissonat, the inciting incident, according to him, was Justin Trudeau's tweet about welcoming immigrants and refugees to the country, right? For that month, though, he was studying mass shootings. He was studying the
00:12:24
Speaker
He was studying immigration. He was looking at a lot of immigration stuff. He had been studying the Polytechnic shooting and the, is it Charlottesville? Charlottetown. Charlottetown. South Carolina. Charleston. Thank you. Charleston Church Mosque. By the way, I appreciate the fact that we're trying not to say these shooter's names because I do believe in the don't say them, say their name campaign. It just does make it a little bit tricky to remember how to name these.
00:12:53
Speaker
Yeah, so in that month, he had been studying mass shootings. And so, you know, I'm hesitant to believe that that was the, as you say, the catalyst. I think maybe he was waiting for the final motive, or he was waiting for something to give him that motive. He was also a very vulnerable and deranged person. We may never know.
00:13:20
Speaker
You have to be a deranged person to commit such killings. I'm gonna push back on that, but let's listen to Michael Cooper's audio from the session that we are talking about, the session where we originally referenced Faisal. So Faisal says his piece and Michael Cooper, this is how he responds.
00:13:38
Speaker
I take great umbrage with your defamatory comments to try to link conservatism with violent and extremist attacks. They have no foundation for defamatory and they diminish your credibility as a witness.
00:13:57
Speaker
And let me, Mr. Chair, read into the record the statement of who is responsible for the Christchurch massacre. He left a 74-page manifesto in which he stated,
00:14:19
Speaker
And I certainly wouldn't attempt to link Bernie Sanders to the individual who shot up Republican members of Congress and nearly fatally killed
00:14:31
Speaker
Congressman Scalise. So you should be ashamed. Can I ask you? When you were sitting down. Please continue. You should be ashamed, Faisal.
00:14:46
Speaker
Was going through your mind when you realized that he was quoting the New Zealand shooter and would quote the manifest like that like was it was
Capitalism's Role in Extremism
00:14:59
Speaker
it sort of a gradual realization that like yeah wow he's he's doing this he's going there
00:15:05
Speaker
Well, I'll be honest with you. Thanks. First, I'll be very honest, it was caught off guard. I think the fact that in any of these parliamentary committees and you participate, it's a very collaborative environment. The environment is there to
00:15:21
Speaker
to recommend certain stuff you need to take and it's a collaborative approach from all sides of it. And there's there's there's an FAQ session where you questions out of it so coming, not if you didn't understand anything, our expectation would be, you're going to be asking a question to clarify what you meant by it, not going on the full on blown attack so
00:15:40
Speaker
Coming back to your question, so yes, we were definitely caught off guard. And the fact that it was a month of Ramadan, it was one of the most holiest month that we had. A lot of members were fasting that day as well. I know for a fact that we did take a break of the fasting wise, but obviously to hear the words coming out from a federal MP on the way it is, and our expectation is that you're going to be asking like, hey, something to sit well with you. Granted, no problem. Ask a question, we'll clarify what we meant by it.
00:16:09
Speaker
But to go on the full-blown attack and then quoting the words You know
Comparing Extremisms: Islamic vs Right-wing
00:16:15
Speaker
you you're in shock a lot of emotions you got to hold back you want to respond by all means We do appreciate some of the steps that were taken the time of obviously and during that during that time when those words were taken and
00:16:30
Speaker
going to camera and whatnot. But it was definitely surprising, that's for sure. And we've been there before. We've made some issues before. So it was the first time ever that we've seen such a reaction in such a manner that it was like, wow, should I laugh at this? Or how should I take it? It's interesting. And I think he was probably taken off
00:16:55
Speaker
taken off guard even more by the response to it. Because I don't get the impression that he even understood how provocative and just like tactless that was and insensitive. I think that he was probably just rehashing a few Twitter conversations or threads that he'd read through. I mean, certainly he was trying to fight back.
00:17:24
Speaker
You know, well, I don't think that he understood just, you know, how kind of demonstrably wrong it is to do what he just did. And to do it in a parliamentary committee as a standing freddo MP and exactly to do it in the fashion that you did.
00:17:44
Speaker
uh and i'll be honest uh i'm not going to take any names but his own members would did not jump in to support him i mean how would you and uh and the rest of the members maybe not rehashing twitter threads maybe just rehashing some some conversations you know some some back office conversations there's a lot to unpack with that um you know like like the fact that
00:18:08
Speaker
Who has that in their back pocket is my question. Who has the manifesto of a guy who just killed 70 some people? I've looked through the manifesto. I quote parts of the manifesto in my book to prove, you know, prove points as well. Like I'm not against us looking at that. I think that this is how we, you know, this is sort of how we is one of the best entries
00:18:31
Speaker
uh, points that we have to this kind of psychology. However, what I was going to say is with that manifesto, you have to, it's a very sophisticated document. Um, and before I, you know, before I quoted from it for, for my book, I, I talked to Mack Lamoureux who is a mutual friend and did the jokes on you to believe it.
00:18:55
Speaker
And I think that's what our reaction was, the fact that we're not making the point to link up federal conservatism to violent extremism. That is not what we're saying, right? That was the perception that he took, hence the word he took quite umbrage to.
00:19:13
Speaker
And if that came from a person like you, and I think the fact that the perception is different, right? It's much more torn down. I mean, obviously, from a journalistic perspective, everything else you're going through, I think the personality, the person changes the tone somewhat, sometimes,
Ideological Extremism and Societal Violence
00:19:30
Speaker
I think. I mean, if I use it to score political points and used it wrongly, I would hope- You may get a reaction. I would hope to be ridiculed the same way.
00:19:38
Speaker
So, so I think, I think from that standpoint of you, I just, for us to the fact that a, uh, it was shocking. Uh, do we know exactly did he have in his hand or did he go did his research? Because obviously we're, we have our submissions in before beforehand. So you're doing a research before you come in. So did you have a point or agenda? Like as soon as they speak, I'm going to go at it. Right. So you don't know, you know what they're going to say before he knows what he there, he knows what he knows what we're going to be submitting. Right. Because that's why he had his back pocket.
00:20:07
Speaker
well sure okay that makes more sense to me now it's still extremely sus that he has that's where he went to also he probably knew that that was you know if when you prepare for say like a podcast for example you you know you have a general idea of where things might go and so he was probably preparing for someone to
00:20:27
Speaker
make what he saw as the linkage to political conservatism. Either way, maybe he saw what you were going to compare, or he was just looking for that entry point to use it.
00:20:38
Speaker
All right. Okay. So what actually happened? What were the consequences and the fallout for Michael Cooper? Well, I mean, I think by far one of the most, I think one of the most media covered, um, incidents is that, you know, that we definitely even want to get involved in or myself as an individual has been involved in. Um,
00:20:58
Speaker
I think every media outlet and heard the fact that he asked to reach New Zealand In terms of that too. So there's been there was a full outcry I mean from every media outlet from CBC Power Politics to Charles Aller Ryan Jasperson all the media side of it. There's good coverage on it And how do you think the media how do you think they covered it? I think it was treated fairly
00:21:21
Speaker
I think, yeah, I mean, they want to pretty much know what the overall reaction was and how we felt towards it. I mean, the biggest thing is the fact that there was an issue for us to say that it was quoted. And I think that that has been very well received, the fact that it is now the words that he actually uses, the quoting of the manifest words have been taken out, as you can see from that side of it. Apology was made at that time.
00:21:48
Speaker
Not to the full extent But again utilizing the words at that time and taking the words to be ashamed of though. That was that was all Did he ever reach out to you personally to apologize? No, I think there's been statements that were made media wise that to say that you know, he apologized for the words that he used but there was no personal Paul you to myself and
00:22:11
Speaker
I think there was ample opportunity. I mean, I would love to sit down and no problem and have a dollar. Let's have a one-on-one. Have you thought about what you would say to him? I'm sure he's a listener of this podcast. He's a big fan. Yeah, a friend of the show. I would, to be honest, I would think if I could say it would be a learning experience, but I would like to know that what was his frame of mind at the time of, right?
00:22:29
Speaker
I don't think us, myself as an individual, or AMPAC, the Bird of Muscogee Council has ever been involved in any accusation of any conserved member being a provincial, being a federal for us to go and accuse any sole practice of a party and linking that out to violent extremism. Absolutely not. So to come back to Michael Cooper though, there wasn't really much in the way of consequences.
00:22:57
Speaker
He issued an apology. He was removed from the justice committee. He kind of had- That was a consequence. Yeah, there you go. Huge consequence. He kind of had to, I don't know, eat shit in the media for a day or two and then...
00:23:12
Speaker
He wasn't removed from the party, he wasn't removed from caucus. There was no substantial, like actual criticism coming from within his own party of like, yo, this guy needs to fucking go. He just read. It's currently suing The Hill. The Hill Times, yeah. I'm a good herder. Further reporting on that. And I don't see these free speech absolutists coming out to defend The Hill.
00:23:34
Speaker
It also came out a couple weeks later that when he was in law school, he had talked about goat herder cultures, which again, he threatened to sue people over, but there hasn't been any forward movement on that. I think it's worth coming out here that Michael Cooper sucks.
00:23:51
Speaker
And that like, he's a bad person and that he, and that there hasn't been any consequences for him. He's unlikely for him to face consequences since he is a conservative running in Alberta as an MP, right? I think he is likely to face consequences.
Addressing Capitalism to Tackle Racism
00:24:02
Speaker
We won't, we don't, we may never see them. Um, but I think, you know, his, his career is the future of his career is, um, I think it's, I fucking hope so. I mean,
00:24:13
Speaker
No, it is. It is. Absolutely. I don't think that, um, you don't get to be a cabinet minute. You don't get to, you don't get a cabinet position for the rest of your career after doing something like that. Yeah. But part of justice is that just part of, uh, justice being done as a justice must also be seen to be done. If, and if all it is is just like backroom, whatever, like you're not going to get X, Y, Z committee posts anymore, like condemnation and becoming a pariah within the, you know, within your.
00:24:40
Speaker
within Canadian politics and even within your party is a punishment. We'll make him a pariah by kicking him out of the party, right? I get it, but I'm also not gonna pretend that there were no consequences here. It's not like they then gave him a promotion. There was some consequences. I just think there's not enough. Okay, the part of your testimony, Faisal, that we didn't play the clip to and that Michael Cooper didn't react to were
00:25:07
Speaker
Frankly, your submissions, your ideas, like what should the federal government do when it comes to stopping Islamic hate, the rise of online white supremacy? And I think it's worthwhile to have that conversation as well around, you know, what were those submissions? What were your ideas? And like, and let's kind of, let's go from there.
00:25:26
Speaker
Well, I know I just, I mean, I mean, there's quite a few in there, but I think the three main topics that we had brought to the table were the fact that they started looking into some sort of AI technology or methodology into looking for online hate speech and words and like to like looking at, you know, Facebook and Twitter and YouTube. Research has been in fact that 41% of some of the hate is actually done from YouTube.
00:25:52
Speaker
And then what are we doing that to we understand the fact that social media platforms like Facebook and YouTube and They say the fact that you've done a lot to curtail online hate and hate speech and they Pretty much kill sites or whatnot, but we don't know exactly what that is, right? So we appreciate the you know, the Liberal government for You know bringing the digital charter of rights back into the system there, but
00:26:20
Speaker
I think the fact that we need to utilize that and expand on that and to say like what technology can we use today? It's 2019 and start ciphering out individuals or sites who promote online hate speech through social media because social media right now is one of the most biggest platforms that we know that these individuals or groups out there who definitely go and include others and use the tool to get out there, right?
00:26:47
Speaker
It is platform. Especially YouTube. It's called Speed of Speed. It is. And it's with all forms of extremism. I mean, ISIS would not be ISIS if it was not for Web 2.0. I know we don't call it Web 2.0 anymore, but that's kind of what it was, right? Certain Jihadi extremists like Anwar Al-Awaki used
00:27:11
Speaker
his blog to get his violent philosophies out and reach unknown thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions, we don't know.
00:27:24
Speaker
So yeah, I mean, this is where we need to put our focus on. And we're kind of in uncharted territory, right? Like for a very long time, managing the delicate balance of free speech and hate speech was relatively the same. The fax machine came along and we were like, oh, okay, we figured it out. It's not that big of a deal. But this is just so wild and YouTube, especially,
00:27:52
Speaker
is I think the one that needs to be focused on because it's just really, really hard to monitor. Like, okay, so I've written about flat earthers, right? And these guys will sit through, by their own admittance, 10 hours a week, just five hours a day of YouTube videos. They will go down these rabbit holes, but the videos themselves can go two hours long.
00:28:18
Speaker
They're just a couple of people on sort of a Google Hangout and just bantering. They're doing what this, they're doing their version of sort of like a podcast. You can't really monitor that when these videos are two hours long, four hours long, because the violent part, the really, really extremist part,
00:28:38
Speaker
is say at the like three hour point and only the most indoctrinated reach that point. So like how do we how do we do this and the technology I think just baby doesn't exist or it does but there needs to be a way to reach sort of
00:28:55
Speaker
I think maybe you said it was text analysis or something, and I can see how that can work for 4chan, 8chan, but we need to find a way to do that with the medium of YouTube, because YouTube is where fringe theories thrive. On the left, on the right, it's where they thrive. On the algorithm keeps pushing it. People go further. Cult leaders, for example.
00:29:15
Speaker
have found incredible new audiences on YouTube for a variety of reasons, but it's also kind of this, it's just this place where people who get obsessed with ideas go deeper and deeper in a whole.
00:29:30
Speaker
Now, we actually do have, I think we actually have not just a technology to, you know, remedy this, but it's actually kind of, it's reversing the technology that has made this issue worse. And that's the YouTube algorithm that favors extremist or more extreme views, rather, right? So you can start with
00:29:55
Speaker
You can start with Sean Hannity and then end at Richard Spencer only a few videos later because YouTube wants to keep you watching and the way that it keeps you watching is feeding you more outrageous content. One of our commissions that we talk about is the fact that what is accountability there for these social media platforms out there?
00:30:16
Speaker
how do you monitor them right itself that's me first we're talking about text analysis and went on to but and that and that's and that's one of those things but one of the ones that we also make the fact today is how do you make these social media gurus these platforms accountable into what they do and what they what they're saying and what they what they purchase if we're allowing somebody to go and put your video out you want more viewers well
00:30:36
Speaker
Your, your videos and your viewings and all those viewers are being influenced to do or commit certain acts, right, what those are. So there has to be some accountability that has to be put into that. And I think the fact that it's just high time now that we hold these people accountable. There had to be some measures to be taken.
00:31:00
Speaker
to suppress these these sites and we use how do you close down the individuals? How do you ban them or whatnot? Why? And but the problem that we have in there goes back to where, you know, we talk about also on the Canadian Human Rights Act in Section 13, where freedom of speech cannot be infringed upon 100% agreed, right? And the Canadians of Liberties Association, I mean, they're they're definitely CCLA have spoken on that too. And that's why one of the languages of that of that section needs to be looked into. But
00:31:26
Speaker
You don't want to definitely infringe upon a curtail free speech, but free speech does not mean you have the license for hate speech and does not give you the license to portray hate to the point where there's violence and killings of innocent people. I think that's where the fine line comes in and how do you define that, right? So the ask is to start looking into those mechanisms.
00:31:52
Speaker
Okay, so your three recommendations to the federal government were an AI to kind of recognize and stop hate speech. Open up the human rights code, bringing back section 13 I think was your specific thing, and then this digital rights monitoring and essentially working with social media companies to essentially empower them to get rid of these people. I'm gonna say that those are all
00:32:17
Speaker
excellent first steps do them tomorrow but I don't I don't think you fundamentally address racism or Islamophobia without addressing capitalism like I don't think that you can look at
00:32:29
Speaker
Of course, of course you are going to get it. Is capitalism all along? I'm looking at your laptop right now. Is it like a Pandora box? It's literally a sticker that says tax the rich staring right back at it. I know where we are. We're at Progress, Alberta. Yes, we are going to talk about this. Of course, of course. Okay, so why do hate crimes go down when unemployment numbers are low and when the economy is good? Why is capitalism always searching for a new enemy?
00:32:57
Speaker
So, okay, I'll tell you why I'm here. The inherent contradictions of capitalism mean that it will always find someone whose fault it is that the people who aren't doing well aren't doing well. The reason why they aren't doing well is because under capitalism, the benefits flow to only a few people. If you were to build a society where the benefits flow to everyone, you wouldn't have that same problem. But because capitalism has inherent contradictions where people don't benefit,
00:33:24
Speaker
Capitalism needs to find an external enemy. In the 1930s, in Germany, it was Jews. In the post 2011, it was Muslims, immigrants. In Alberta, in the last provincial election, it was foreign-funded environmentalists. This is a process where you're constantly finding new enemies.
00:33:44
Speaker
And this is how it works, right? I'm not completely convinced by that. I think there is some truth, but I would never put a period at the end of that sentence.
00:34:00
Speaker
Like I think of, you know, radical right-wing, you know, extremism. Lately I'm hearing the word identitarianism used and I actually quite like that. I think of it as sort of the different side of the same coin as radical Islamism or, you know, jihadi Islamism. And those
00:34:28
Speaker
That movement, that belief did not happen at a time of economic disparity in Saudi Arabia or in the regions where these movements took hold.
00:34:46
Speaker
I think it was something else. A lot of people like to point to the 1967, this might get boring for those of you who don't really care for Middle Eastern history, but the 1967 Arab-Israeli War, also known as the Six-Day War.
00:35:02
Speaker
because it ended in six days in great humiliation was a massive massive massive humiliation to the muslim uh you know to the muslim world so muslim populations around the world even those living in canada in the u.s actually a lot of the um sort of
00:35:20
Speaker
Arab American Arab Canadian groups that are sort of like the precursor to AMPAC started around that time as well because you know they felt like they needed solidarity with themselves with each other that kind of humiliation
00:35:36
Speaker
in some cases taken to extreme, it can really push people towards some extreme views. It allowed, along with the oil profits of Saudi Arabia, it allowed the exportation of more extremist views as well. Some people call it Wahhabism, Salafism. Radical, violent Islam. But also, you know, this is,
00:35:59
Speaker
political Islam, Islam is thought, which on its own is not a terrible thing. If anyone wants to see life through the prism of Islam, so be it. But then when you start to add this ingredient of jihadism or takfirism, which is sort of like othering people and calling them unbelievers and giving permission to, that sort of stuff grew,
00:36:29
Speaker
during a time of prosperity, you know, with the 90s was in space. So that's why I kind of like why I'm hesitant to say that it's capitalism that points toward that idea. I have an issue of putting any type of terminology or identification of a thing that when it comes to religious wise, the fact that an act of terror is an act of terror.
00:36:48
Speaker
There is no religion, no creed, no nothing behind to it. So Jihadism or Islamism or extremism, that's where I sort of have an issue with it just because of the fact that these individuals, and I'm not going to take the names. I mean, you can call Christian whatever you want.
00:37:04
Speaker
You don't portray yourself to be a true Christian because any normal human being would not commit such crimes or what that is, right? So they're far gone. I totally understand the mentality and the linkage where that's coming from, but I think for me,
00:37:22
Speaker
acts of terrorism remain active terrorism a murder is a murder but but to view them as isolated I think is is is Incorrect, right? Like when we talk about Alexander Bissonnet and Dylan route or sorry when we talk about, you know The Charleston shooter the El Paso shooter the tree of life shooter like these these these were not a this was not an anti-semitic This was not an anti black shooter, but also like the pulse shooter But this is part of a coherent revolutionary ideologies, right and and to
00:37:52
Speaker
You're absolutely this coherent revolutionary ideology. Like we have to name it. We have to talk about it. We have to discuss it because they have nationalist or which is why and I think maybe that's why I I use that term and I know it's not perfect and I know there there are maybe more verbose ways to explain this but you know, there is a You know there there there is a movement
00:38:19
Speaker
a coherent ideology that says everything from your politics, your social encounters, your wardrobe should be dictated through Islamic scripture, Hadith, Quran. And again, in Salafism, you have your pacifists,
00:38:40
Speaker
and you have your activists and you have your extremists. So being a Salafist, for example, doesn't necessarily make you a violent, doesn't make you a terrorist, doesn't even make you a violent person. And I think being a white supremacist doesn't necessarily make you a, you know, a violent person or identitarianists or something like that. However, they do provide maybe a little bit of a foundation.
00:39:07
Speaker
that under the wrong circumstances can slowly, gradually pave the way for someone to go. Yeah, I think radicalism and extremism is across the board. But I mean, I would add my critique or one of my foundational things of the things we have to address if we want to address Islamophobia or hate crimes, these mass shootings, it's not just capitalism, but it's also empire, right? And I think maybe that relates back to
00:39:30
Speaker
1967 point. And again, I'm way out of my own personal knowledge around— I mean, to sum it up, what happened there is Arab nationalism and secularism died that day. People felt that the promise of independence and nationalism
00:39:49
Speaker
failed them and so that allowed nations like Saudi Arabia to sort of come in with soft power through their religious ideology and you know for a time it and it was it was the legitimate activist movement a rebellion movement against western colonialism
00:40:11
Speaker
Um, but, uh, I mean, yeah, anyway, it's what I'm saying. So like, you know, I think a humiliation like that, maybe the humiliation, uh, on the other side of the coin. Now we're talking about these countries who are more Westernized, more Western influence than, than any other country that I would say too, right? So it, it, it, I understand where you're coming from. I totally understand that, but.
00:40:31
Speaker
But I wonder if the Civil Rights Act might be another sort of humiliation on identitarianists or whatever, white segregationists, that sort of drove them to this modern version of white supremacy. Or we go back to abolition and start it there. But I think it's more than just capitalism. I think it is a feeling of powerlessness. It's essentially what I'm trying to get. Capitalism and empire. I think the combination of the two. But I think it's worth it. You shouldn't let it go. You shouldn't let it go. Oh, I'm not going to let that go. Absolutely not.
00:40:59
Speaker
We're but we are in the middle of like a worldwide epidemic of violent young white man murdering people en masse right man to mostly white In in this in across the world. There's all colors over across the world. They young violent men come in all colors And currently you know and currently in India you have extremist Hindus who are lynching Muslims as well
00:41:24
Speaker
The question is, these people are murdering people to further their white supremacist ideology, their coherent political ideology, and it's worth examining where it comes from and what their goals are, what they believe. You know, one of the most, like post El Paso shooting, this kind of bubbled up through the Twitter sphere, right? Is that one of the most influential works of the past 15 years, political works, is Anders Breivik's manifesto, the guy who murdered 70 plus people in Norway, mostly youth, mostly people who were involved in social democratic politics.
00:41:50
Speaker
Um, you know, his manifesto explicitly talked about the fears of white ethnic replacement by people from the Middle East and North Africa. And from Anders Breivik popularizing that it originally had come from a few other offers. You've got the Turner diaries, you've got the great replacement was of course, something that I think Lauren Southern might have.
00:42:08
Speaker
Lauren Southern Faith Goldy talked about a lot, but I think Lauren Southern was actually like she got the great replacement.com or something like that. I didn't know she had the URL. I mean, Canada is very complete like Canadians rather, I should say is very complicit in, in, um, in the, you're right. Coherent ideology that, that these mass murderers, uh, adhere to.
00:42:27
Speaker
And these manifestos keep coming out and these people keep telling us why they're doing what they're doing. And, um, you know, it was the, I've got this right here, but it was the 2011 novel Delina silence by Renard Camus. They really popularized this great replacement theory. Anders Breivik picked it up and it kind of spread to mass shooters in Europe. Back in 1973, when it first started off, right? It was, it was, I think there was a 1973 French novel as well. They also tapped the saints.
00:42:51
Speaker
that also talked about white replacement. And so this idea, this is not just some far off theory that killers are talking about in their manifestos. This also came up in Alberta's, in our provincial election that just happened. And Kaitlin Ford was a UCP candidate.
00:43:09
Speaker
Um, you know, she was a UCP candidate in Calgary. It came to light that she had said certain things that I am going to read out because I think it's worth it. And then she was quickly removed, but she still exists. She's still on Twitter doubling down on replacement theorem. But here's, here's the quote that got UCP candidate, Kaitlyn Ford removed from being a candidate. I'm somehow saddened by the demographic replacement of white peoples in their homelands more in Europe than in America, partly because it's clear that it will not be a peaceful transition.
00:43:39
Speaker
This is not some far away thing. This is literally here. She still has interviewed on Danielle Smith's radio show. I mean, I'm banned from that show, but I assume so. Yeah. That's an extreme view, man. That's a scary view. That's a very dangerous view. That's a dangerous view. And that's a scary view. Absolutely. I agree. It should give you chills. Yeah. Um, and I still laugh about that. I mean, you gotta laugh. You gotta laugh at like, look, we don't,
00:44:08
Speaker
This country is white, it's mostly white. And so it's harder for the majority to see the extremism in something that in the end,
00:44:20
Speaker
It's kind of in their favor in a way. If you look at, I mean, I'm starting to keep like playing, I'm not trying to play devil's advocate, I'm just trying to show the other side of the coin. A lot of what sounds like extremist Muslim rhetoric to me, it just goes over the head of people in, you know, people in my family. Like they hear it, it's nothing. They don't, you know, they sort of like anti-Semitic things and it doesn't even register.
00:44:50
Speaker
Um, so it's, I don't, it is an extremist view and we need to keep pushing back on it, but it doesn't, it doesn't surprise me that there are a lot of people who hear that and they're like, I don't, I don't see what's wrong with that. Well, Danielle Smith didn't see a problem. And, and, and, and I think, I think the media in Alberta really actually fell down when covering this because they didn't.
00:45:14
Speaker
didn't have the proper vocabulary to understand where this ideology was coming from, what this quote serves and what part broader political projects. Yeah. And why it's important, right? Like, like, like, let's just say out loud what these people want, right? Like they want a country, they want their own country full of white people. Any Brown people in the side of this country would be either deported or killed.
00:45:36
Speaker
Thing is the fact that like and we're saying the fact that a yes, this country is predominantly white, right? But Canada was not based on the foundation of being this is a white country It's very based in a very diverse country in that sense. That's a pretty good way. I've heard it was created as a We talk about Alberta we talk about Canada This hemisphere was built on a great replacement
00:46:04
Speaker
on land theft and genocide, right? Yeah. And when I hear identitarians, American, Canadian, any talk about that without even
00:46:18
Speaker
registering the irony that we are all actually agents. I imagine everyone in this room, I'm not sure about our sound engineer, you might have indigenous blood, do you? No, every single one of us actually is an agent of genocide.
00:46:37
Speaker
Yeah. And when I went in by the statement of the fact that if you look in today's age, right, in today's age and bringing building Canada into a diverse culture and unrecognizing in terms of the true facts of what happened to our respect indigenous communities and whatnot, not to take that away. I'm just saying the fact that her statement in this day and age, when we're trying to build a world of reconciliation, trust, diversity, integration, collaboration, inclusiveness,
00:47:08
Speaker
that statement is Unwarranted. I think I mean why I think we all we all agree to that is where and that was makes it scary in the fact today I understand in terms of a that um looking at the fact that a you know Is this it is just tied back into a theory of you know what uh, uh, you know the muslims and all those immigrate immigrants were coming into the taking over the country and uh, you know this transition of a white people
00:47:33
Speaker
You don't have to say it. There is an implicit belief that Muslims are inherently conquerors. That it is part of the culture, almost kind of part of the DNA.
00:47:50
Speaker
Um, and this is actually, this is something that unironically was posited by the New Zealand shooter, right? In fact, he said he didn't even hate Muslims. He said, I don't, I dislike them. Um, but he said he, he chose them for two reasons. One, they are the easiest scapegoat that he felt like he would get the most public support for targeting them than any other minority. And secondly, because he thought that they are inherently high fertile and, um, you know, conquer oriented people.
00:48:22
Speaker
I mean, what do you say to that? I mean, but again, it's worth repeating what these people want. And that's what Caitlin Ford, I believe is dog whistling too. Yeah, of course. She doesn't have to say it. No, she doesn't have to say, well, I'm what I'm really for is for the deportation of all and genocide of all non white people so that we can create a new ethno state for white people. She's not saying that out loud.
00:48:41
Speaker
Sure I mean when donald trump says a complete shutdown of muslims until we you know, until we fit What was it until we figure this out until we know what's going on? He's he's dog whistling that that you know to that same thing. I mean There are two conspiracy theories that we talk about when we look about, you know white supremacist nationalists or whatnot to is where we're talking about white replacement theories or we're talking about white genocide theories, right and
00:49:06
Speaker
Most of the dialogue you'll find out right now is all about replacement. It's just all about replacement. They're concerned about kicking over. My feeling is that white replacement is just a euphemism for white genocide thing. It's funny though that they would... There's a lot of people who got really resistant to the use of genocide to describe what has happened and continues to happen to First Nations and Indigenous communities in Canada.
00:49:31
Speaker
And I think a lot of those same people would just be like, how is it not white genocide? How is, what Faith Goldie is telling me is white genocide is happening. With our birth rates, by 2050, there will be 100 million Muslims in Canada, majority minority in Halifax alone. There will be amazing like rabbits.
00:49:53
Speaker
But they use the same argument for genocide. Now the difference is, their like, demography science is fucking bunk, right? Unlike, you know, the demography of indigenous populations, you know? No, we stole their land and we killed them and we genocided them. Yeah, we're just gonna go in and start implementing Sharia law in everywhere across the world and that's just gonna be like, that's our main belief and that's exactly what we need to do. I'm here to impose
00:50:23
Speaker
like something to go through I'm sure you like I want my laws I want my rules and but there's our land our rule that's her you know wake up that's my dream and that's just utterly honestly I'm gonna call it such a that is true just bullshit that is I'm just gonna call it it is but no one's no one's lining up
00:50:42
Speaker
No one's lining up to institute Sharia law in Edmonton? Is that what you're telling me? I just wish for some self-reflection. Fair, fair. Okay, I mean, this is something we were just just talking about. I think it's worth coming back to. It's like, how do we build a society that, you know, that fights these people and wins, right?
00:50:59
Speaker
What kind of society do we want where this this this question essentially falls away? Yeah, and and we live in a society where uh, these either melts away or they are defeated I mean is the question i'm gonna ask as far as I mean and to be honest as far as i'm concerned in terms of what we see of a man pack There has been a decline When we talk about slumaphobia or slumphobic incidents, there is it has been a decline i'll be honest Um, that's great, uh, which is which fantastic? Um
00:51:27
Speaker
The biggest thing is that we do still live in a very, very tolerant society, right? Diversity is celebrated, not tolerated. That's the biggest thing. People for, you know, for individuals who have these extreme views about, you know, Muslims are, I don't care who it is. I don't want to keep on focusing on Muslims here, but, you know, whoever that is that we're taking over as immigrants or not, I don't care what country you're from.
00:51:57
Speaker
I would still like to believe the fact that that's a very small percentage of people. However, what happens is that these people utilize these platforms that make them look bigger and they get an audience to listen. And what sometimes it does is the fact that such
00:52:16
Speaker
Such negative view somewhat Drown out the positives that our societies that we live in and that's the biggest thing is where in media and all I'm sorry I'll blame media as well the fact that you give these people I don't care what it is from from news channels will not to you give them a voice So do you think this is something that can be stopped with better or more conscientious law enforcement?
00:52:39
Speaker
I think 100% in fact today, I feel like you look at law enforcement agencies in terms of they're still trying to grasp, like even online hate. I'm not taking names, but you know, we hear the fact today. Yeah, we're monitoring, we're monitoring the actions of so so individual and how much time they spend on online.
00:53:00
Speaker
And, you know, at one point it was 20 hours. Oh, now, you know, after some dialogue, you know, it's 16 hours. Oh, fantastic. So our tax dollars and we're paying into so and so our authorities who are rehabilitating these individuals. Nothing wrong with it, but it takes one crazy act.
00:53:18
Speaker
I mean, I'm really skeptical of law enforcement. I mean, I mean, do we honestly think that the RCMP or thesis are infiltrating and surveilling white power, white supremacist groups or that, or that the majority of their time is spent still surveilling mosques and Muslim people, like people, indigenous folks, people doing organizing around climate issues. I'll tell you what, I just don't think they're built to actually fight white supremacy.
00:53:42
Speaker
I'll give them some credit there, because after the crisis of shooting, one of the things that we obviously made publicly and when we were asked was to look at some of these groups, like the three presenters, or Combat 18 of these guys. Oh, the most violent of the violent, like the most remember. And you put them on the terror watch list the fact of day. You know, we've had some really good chats with the feds on that as well, and looking in the RCMPs, the research was, the information was being collected at that time, right? Are we on the terror watch list now? Combat 18 is definitely on the terror watch list. What's up?
00:54:12
Speaker
Right, so three percenters and not yet, but it's been working to and we're going to further more push on to that. I mean, these groups are the ones who are training with live ammunition, right? So so and does it and does there maybe need to be a different list? So three percenters have three percenters have in the States. Yeah, so they have. So we've got reports wise and I think that that's going to go into a pretty big conversation.
00:54:38
Speaker
But there are the fact that in Canada, no. Have they been training for sure? Yes. But the Comba 18, obviously, they are the most, I think, worst of the worst of the bunch right now in terms of... I put three pictures right up there as well.
00:54:57
Speaker
But you got to take your wins where they come from. But these are reason why that even the RCMP so I'll give us some credit. I think the fact that I think a lot more work has to be put in into our law enforcement agencies, wherever they are. And I think the fact that they need to get more support and understanding what that is, but they also have to be open in terms of the understanding.
00:55:16
Speaker
what hate is right and sometimes we we've heard language where you know you would just said wasn't it just not right didn't the FBI just like lose an entire fucking database of like Stormfront files they had they just like whoopsie-scoopsie lost them all like like I just fundamentally don't believe that
00:55:36
Speaker
our law enforcement agencies are built to fight white supremacy. Like explicitly the RCMP was created to like to dispossess people on the plains and to commit genocide. I mean I have deep systemic critiques of policing and how policing works and how it's how it's taken care of and I think to look at Canadian police as being somehow
00:55:56
Speaker
so much different than policing in other countries. I'm not, I'm not just American police as well. There are, you know, there are people in, I was just in Houston. But we were, but we, we, we talked about the, the carding stats, like the amount, like 70% of, of, of indigenous women in prison are, of 70% of women in prison are indigenous. You know, they make up like five, six, 7% of the population. Like, okay, this isn't a, this isn't a, I'm not giving them a free ride, but like, look, if, if an, if an immigrant was to just listen to Duncan Kinney,
00:56:26
Speaker
Okay, and just listen to this podcast they would never they would think that they could never trust the police and I think that's a worse thing than You know them then them Thinking that they you know that they that they can they I know hopefully they will understand and you know I see it in my own family that the gradual realization that you know you are
00:56:52
Speaker
You might be a second-class citizen, but indigenous people have had it much worse in this country. Hopefully, immigrants understand the genocide and oppression in our history and how police have been agents of that. But I think it's much worse to have people believe that you just simply have to write off police, that there's no way that they are ever going to protect you because most of the time, they will.
00:57:21
Speaker
I think we're gonna have to disagree on that. But again, let's wrap this up and let's try and come to a somewhat of a conclusion here. What type of society, we live in a society, right? We live in a society that hopefully takes care of each other. What type of society we want to build where hate and racism and Islamophobia fall away and how do we work towards that?
00:57:42
Speaker
Yeah, that's a good question. Food is the best way to ingratiate people to other cultures. I'm being half, you know, joking about that. But to be honest, I think the fact that the one thing that I speak about in terms of, you know, we as Muslims here, what we're trying to do and making sure the fact that all our mosques are, they open the doors 100%. Like come and visit us, see if it is, if there's any
00:58:07
Speaker
Misinformation clear that up and by all means like Moscow it means they hold their annual barbecues or bake sales I see now neighbors I mean, there's a fundraising component to it food at you, but there's this fundraising component We have to pay a ticket but our neighbors who they get in for free. That's fantastic
00:58:26
Speaker
No, we have to build solidarity as a white person. I have to build more solidarity with our Muslim neighbors. It's a two-way street. It's a two-way street. It's always going to be a two-way street. And it has to be from both sides of it. And I think we see that now. And it always has been. I think the fact that there's always going to be some issues that you're going to find. And I think that's where we're seeing the fact that now the language and the understanding is changing that we see now.
00:58:49
Speaker
I'll be honest, I think growing up here in Canada and what I'm seeing now in the last, what, five to seven years, I didn't see these issues of Islamophobia or anything else. It wasn't there. Now all of a sudden, I think once you allow fascism to creep into society and it becomes somewhat acceptable, then that's where you start seeing these things happen. I think the fact that you need to have a common unifying voice
00:59:18
Speaker
to say the fact that you don't stand up for such fields, you don't stand up for such language, and you'll never stand up for any individual who will try to instill this negativity in your society. We live in a very politic country, and I think now that we understand the fact that
00:59:39
Speaker
The battle will always continue. I think the fact that I don't think you're going to stop this. But I think the fact that there's got to be a good level of management to completely sort of bring this down to a point where
00:59:51
Speaker
I'm with you. You know, I mean, because I'm just trying to be realistic. I'm trying to be realistic. Yes, we do see the fact that a level of some of will be right now. If I look in in in terms of what we're seeing, there has been a somewhat of a decline, which is good. Very fortunate. Right. But not to say the fact that it's not done because we just dealt with I'm not going to get into that, but we would tell in a couple of instances or, you know, in terms of what they are. But are these just crazy individuals or even what they what the hell they're saying or what they're doing?
01:00:19
Speaker
So the struggle never ends, but I think we do have to identify who the enemy is and what it is they believe, what they want to accomplish, and we have to mobilize to defeat them. Again, I think that the goals of our enemies are tied up intrinsically with empire and capitalism, and that if we are able to fight those two things, that we are going to be able to build a society free from want, that if people are taken care of economically,
01:00:44
Speaker
that a lot of those problems and troubles will fall away. And that we do have to build solidarity with our neighbors across class, not necessarily across class, across religious lines and really racial lines. And that's where I come from. That should be more of a secular approach. Omar, do you want to close us out?
01:01:02
Speaker
Well, Faisal said that it's a two-way street. And I think that it's usually the second generation of immigrants that lead the way. They're the ones who are more often in public schools and in universities. And their social network is just much more diverse and wide. And they are often the ones who kind of push more progressive values onto their parents and get their parents to
01:01:32
Speaker
let go of homophobic views, for example, you know, that kind of stuff. So I think that, you know, through, I have lots of reason to be optimistic. I think that the second generation of, the younger generation, rather, of Muslim Canadians are creating a
01:01:53
Speaker
building great solidarity in the wider public. I think that when it comes to media, that's, I think, just the big one. We can't allow things like replacement theory
01:02:08
Speaker
creep into the mainstream. When it shows up on Danielle Smith's radio show, we got to push back off that. We got to humiliate the people who give that a platform. And I'm not necessarily saying we have to deplatform every single one of them because that comes with another kind of backlash. But I think that we have to humiliate those people.
01:02:32
Speaker
Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences. Exactly, right? We need to let them know that that's not acceptable. And it goes back into accountability. And even if you don't think that it's racist and that this is white supremacy, it is what it is. I think that, so, you know, best practices in the media, I think best practices in social media when it comes to, you know, monitoring and controlling hate speech.
01:02:53
Speaker
I'm not sure actually that I think this needs to happen at a government level or that I would even want it to happen at a government level. I think that this is something that I think we need to pressure our, we need to make it a capitalistic question. I think that we need to sort of make social media platforms realize that they might lose us if they don't do a better job. And we have to pressure the government to also pressure social media to do a better job.
01:03:22
Speaker
They're just creating anti-racism councils and whatnot, and they're trying to put some mechanisms in place. But I think hoping to a better society for sure. And capitalism. Honestly, you are right about that. End it. Creating better social conditions, making people more comfortable will make them less likely to hate others and to other people. You just made Duncan's list. There we go. You've seen it, buddy. Tax the rich. All right.
01:03:48
Speaker
Okay, so that was awesome. Thank you for that chat. Okay, so this is, right now we're at the part of the show called Sundries. It's where we get to have short little hits where we can bring up stuff that didn't come up in the context of our conversation. Quickly bring something up that people need to know about. Omar, what do you got?
01:04:03
Speaker
Um, if you haven't read it already on Canada land, there is a blockbuster of an investigation into Sean Craig is an amazing investigative reporter. And he looked into how post media has swung way to the right and has, um, tried to, um,
01:04:22
Speaker
blanket a mandate across all its many papers across Canada to not just have conservative views, but to actually take more partisan as in, you know, capital C conservative positions. I started to notice something really messed up in the Edmonton Journal a few months ago after they ran a pro-carbon tax editorial
01:04:49
Speaker
and uh they took their name off the editorial board took members took their name off it right no no it's still no it's still there and their names are are at the bottom but shortly after this is the program the editor in chief mark hype was seconded he was reassigned he was basically told you're not allowed to be the editor in chief anymore because he was pushing back against this mandate about a week later um a satirist named tim mccullough who was a columnist longer there somehow managed to write this
01:05:17
Speaker
Self-humiliation about you know post media that sort of like wink wink. Oh, isn't it great that we're in the pocket of the UPC and we're gonna be in the war room it was Amazing that this thing got through but it only got through because there wasn't an editor-in-chief anymore And so I started to notice that okay. It's something is up and
01:05:36
Speaker
And this, this investigation actually took this like little, this small little piece and put it into a national, uh, big picture that has consequences for every Canadian. Even if you don't have a post media newspaper on your table or subscription or even think you go to post media news, that news trickles into other news. It has a huge influence on Canada. It's an incredible piece. Go read it. Uh, Faisal, what do you got?
01:06:06
Speaker
To me, right now, I mean, you know, we're going to be planning an event here coming up soon, so we want to stay tuned. We'll put that on to public knowledge here, but we're looking in October to get a main event in October. Yeah, it's one of our Gala's events that we're going to be pushing through. We definitely are creating some more educational awareness programs. We just had one recently last Friday on, you know, for the Muslim community to know your rights and whatnot too, and making sure that's, again, it's a two-way street and how you should be reacting to certain situations.
01:06:37
Speaker
and I'm going to give a call out to make sure that on Bill 21 you can stand for these things in Quebec that's happening right now and can it happen over here as well but no please please do follow us go to ampac.ca go to our Facebook page ampacinfo
01:06:55
Speaker
look us up, hit us up with any questions you have. If you want to sit down and have a coffee just because, then heck, give me a call. I'll be down and I'll be more than willing to sit down and let's chat. Faisal will have a coffee with you. Just reference the progress report podcast. And I'll buy, no problem. There you go. Okay.
01:07:10
Speaker
I got a couple of quick things. So one thing that I've noticed that currently kind of freaks me the fuck out is Jason Kenney referring to himself a couple times in the past week as a Canadian Patriot. These are in videos where he's discussing, you know, he's not really a separatist, but separatist sentiment is rising. Isn't that weird? I'm not trying to do that. Anyways, the people who describe themselves as Canadian Patriots almost always tend to be like online white supremacists and
01:07:37
Speaker
i don't think he's going there i don't think he's going there but i think it is i think it's it's worrying that that's where his language is going but i we don't have the time to discuss that i also want to note that uh the ucp are fucking around with library funding that library funding is currently on hold if you do not want the ucp to fuck around with funding to libraries
01:07:55
Speaker
go to Progress Alberta's Facebook page, go send your MLA a letter. I think we need to fight back when it comes to austerity on that. And I think that that's it for Sundries. And I think that's it for this episode of the Progress Report. Thank you for listening to the whole thing. If you like this show, please take a minute to leave a review. It really does help us.
01:08:12
Speaker
when it comes to people finding us and subscribing to us. If you have any notes or thoughts or comments that you think I need to hear, I am on Twitter, at Duncan Kinney. I'm also, you can also get me an email at DuncanK at progressuberta.ca. What's the best way for people to find you online, Omar, and what do you have to plug?
01:08:30
Speaker
Ah, you can find me on Twitter, sometimes currently not. I come in and off on Twitter at Omar underscore AOK, or just go to my website, OmarMualim.com. You can read some of my stuff there. I also have a documentary coming out on September the 14th on CBC. I co-directed it with Dylan Reese Howard. It's called Digging in the Dirt. It's about the mental health crisis in the oil sands. And it's really about men's mental health, depression and suicide in
01:08:59
Speaker
In the trades. Awesome. Well, thank you so much to Omar Moalam and Faisal Khan Suri Thank you to cosmic family communist for the amazing theme and goodbye Thanks guys