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Finding Paradise
322 Plays2 years ago
In this episode, Satsunami and Adam dive into the next game of the To the Moon series Finding Paradise. How many times will Satsunami cry? Who is the mystery character haunting the game? And what did they compare this game to?! All this and more in this episode of Chatsunami!
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Transcript
Introduction and Banter
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Chatsunami.
00:00:16
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Chatsunami. I'm Satsunami and joining me today to find paradise with me is the one and only Adam. Adam, welcome back. Hello, hello, good to be back and I'm looking forward to Sigmund Freud, Sigmund Freud, analyse this, analyse this. That was two weeks ago Adam, let it go. It's still in my mind just playing on repeat. Madonna's in my head, help. I know a good company to get that out.
Gaming Backlog and Favorite Games
00:00:47
Speaker
Oh, so how are you doing today? Yeah, I'm not too bad. Thanks, how about yourself? Not bad, not bad. Pretty pleased that you're making your way through these games already. I'm now two thirds of the way there, now unless you can't yell reasons anymore. You'll probably announce it when this episode comes out, just decides to throw us off completely. There's pride in the record we've been complaining about our gaming backlog, so can't get back to making the situation worse. If you didn't laugh, you'd cry. Oh, I do, don't worry.
00:01:11
Speaker
This is the shortest episode ever. If you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go win. Right now I'm okay. He said we were gonna find paradise.
00:01:18
Speaker
I lied, there is no paradise. I can't find it from these game boxes. Drowning me. Every night I have dreams of just getting drowned by my backlog. And then I wake up in a cold sweat and I'm like Adam, do you know what I should do? I should buy more games at the steam sale. I have that recurring dream where like, you know Toy Story 2 when Woody dreams Andy drops him in the trash can. I have that dream where I phone the trash can and my gaming backlog like forms a claw and drags me.
00:01:43
Speaker
I don't want to play with you anymore. You're just dropping vanguard into the bed. Well, Red Dead Redemption 2 is like grappling, dragging me under. I'm like, no! Disco Elysium, I'm trying! So speaking of me running away from my problems, yesterday we are going to be talking about a game you might have heard of through the indie game Grapevine.
Exploring 'Finding Paradise' and its Origins
00:02:05
Speaker
That of course being Finding Paradise.
00:02:08
Speaker
once again written and composed by Kangou, who is also the creator of the widely acclaimed To The Moon game. Not gonna lie, I was very very surprised to find out that this was a thing, because when I played To The Moon, absolutely loved the game, thought it was incredible, and that kind of felt a bit really a bit bittersweet about it. I thought, okay, you know, it's like a standalone story,
00:02:35
Speaker
think he could have really gone much further with this game and then I found out because you know I bought this game in like 2000, I want to say like 2013 maybe and of course To The Moon came out in 2011 but the sequel itself didn't come out until 2017. So when I found out there was a sequel to this game I was absolutely floored but would you say you felt the same way?
00:02:59
Speaker
I was surprised to see it. I was interested to see that there was more to this than, you know, because it does seem to the moon does seem like on the surface to be, as you say, a very much standalone product. I know there's a few things that you'd like. Oh, maybe they could build on this, but you could quite easily be like, oh, you know, like that's that and that's that done.
00:03:17
Speaker
It was interesting to see that there are more games that have been released, as you say, fairly recently. He took a bit of a hiatus, I'm sure he was doing plenty of other things in between releasing To The Moon and Finding Paradise. Because I'm looking at my notes here and apparently the development
00:03:34
Speaker
of this game actually began in 2015. It didn't come out until December 14th of 2017, so it was kind of on the cusp for the 2018 release. As much as I love this game, I can't imagine kids asking for this, you know, under the tree. You want to, you want to nail what skin for
00:03:54
Speaker
for Warzone. Or Fortnite, I'll take it.
Development Length and Freebird Games
00:03:57
Speaker
Come on, Epic Games, you cowards. It goes to show just how long it takes to develop a game. Not to say it's one simple by any stretch of the meme, because there's no way in hell I could ever even program anything close to this finding paradise, but it does show just how long it takes to make games. Is he a still a developer can go?
00:04:13
Speaker
I mean, I don't actually know 100% because the developers are actually credited as free bird games. Okay. So just looking at my notes here, and apparently, although free bird games started as a personal project by Kangao,
00:04:31
Speaker
apart with the game team did expand. Okay. Which that's quite interesting because when you think of To The Moon finding paradise you don't really think of like you think of three-bird games but you think more of Kangou. You know it's like thinking of Daikatana and not thinking of Tron Romero which is an insult but... Wow! Kangou is going to be furious!
00:04:56
Speaker
You compared this to Dikaton. Listen. You put this on the box, that's not what it says. Finding paradise is kangaroos, Dikaton. Well, by the end he did make me cry like a bitch, so... You know what, that was worth it for that joke. Well played. See, I played the long game, okay? Do you know how long I've had that in a post? No, I woke up at 3am in a cold sweat and I was like, I'm gonna work it in the episode, but how?
00:05:24
Speaker
You just need to pull a George Costanza and just get up and leave like I've reached my high point. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
00:05:34
Speaker
quite surprising that this game, although don't get me wrong, as I said it's not just the work of Kangou but I do think he plays probably a very very prominent role. I think he did probably most of the work but the where from what I remember from the credits that are are the people that worked on like the script, the dialogue and things like that so that was interesting to see.
00:05:58
Speaker
Yeah, but even just to show how long it takes to put together a pixel art game with no voice acting, it's still a long process and I'm sure it's an intensive one, so just interesting in that
Gameplay and Narrative Depth
00:06:09
Speaker
respect. Because I mean, especially since this is an RPG Maker game, you would think a game like this would be very simplistic and would only take a couple of months to make, but it does go to show that there's a lot more to this game.
00:06:24
Speaker
rather than just your stereotypical, oh go from point A to B, press this button, press that and you're like, oh sorry, sorry I fell asleep. You have to take that into consideration and I think it does a fantastic job. As was said for To The Moon, it's not perfect but for me personally I absolutely love this game. I think it is probably one of my favourite games. So without any further ado,
00:06:49
Speaker
You have heard me rave about this game in other episodes. You've heard me rave about To The Moon. Will we just jump into it? Let's do it. Let's get on this paper airplane to paradise. And as I try to recall my origami skills that I picked up in heavy rain. Minus of course the children going missing. Yes we will indeed. That is a sentence I will never say again in my life. Have you added that Kev?
00:07:17
Speaker
I just wanted to say in case anyone looks up Pevereen and compares it to Finding Paradise and goes, there's a missing link here. Hang on a second. You are not namin' Jaden. But yeah, without any further ado, we will be folding our paper data plane and we will see you on the other side.
00:07:37
Speaker
Welcome to Chatsunami, a variety podcast that talks about topics, from gaming and films, to streaming in general interest. Previously on Chatsunami, we discussed Game of the Decade, Deadly Premonition, the romantic thriller, Birdemic, and listen to us get all sappy as we discuss our top 5 Christmas films. If that sounds like your cup of tea, then you can find us an anchor, Spotify, YouTube, and all good podcast apps. As always, stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, stay hydrated.
00:08:08
Speaker
We are Beer and Chill Podcast. Podcast where we review TV shows, games, movies and whatever else takes our fancy. So what are you waiting for? If you're a cool kid like us, you're gonna listen to the Beer and Chill Podcast. You can get it anywhere from Spotify all the way to your grandma's radio. My name is Jan. And I'm Creaky C. And we are Beer and Chill.
00:08:43
Speaker
So here we are again at quite possibly everyone's favourite moment of the episode. That of course being the part where I ask Adam to summarise this game. Today's gonna be the day I actually do it. I'm convinced. Five words or less Adam film god.
00:09:01
Speaker
How would you summarise Finding Paradise?
Plot Overview: Doctors and Memories
00:09:04
Speaker
So in Finding Paradise, we rejoin doctors Eva Roslin and Neil Watts, who both work for Sigmund Core, which is a company that specialises in the creation of artificial memories for dying patients, allowing them to kind of achieve lifelong dreams or make different decisions in their life or make them believe that they made different decisions in their life.
00:09:25
Speaker
before they pass on. So in this case two doctors are sent to a man called Colin whose request is that Sigmund Kaur changes his life but not too much. It means he doesn't lose his family because he's very devoted to his wife and his son. He doesn't want to lose that but he wants to try and experience other things as
00:09:47
Speaker
well. So it's a tricky task and made all the trickier because Dr. Neil Watts has decided to bring an experimental headset to use and to interface with Colin. And so to interpret Doctor's journey into Colin's mind and begin the process of working back through his memories to try and do is to try and change his life without completely rewriting it. And as they journey further, they realize that
00:10:09
Speaker
Something's not quite right here. Something's a little bit out of the ordinary here and they can't quite reconcile things. And the story begins to take off from there. How was that? Sorry, sorry, I just don't end. Wow. Wow. I'm going to leave the call now. Confidence shattered.
00:10:27
Speaker
No, that was a fantastic summary. And all seriousness, jokes aside, and Red Panda totally not waving me off here. No, no, that was a fantastic summary. I'm going to call Sigmund Kaur and ask them to change the memory, so you're like, my god, Adam, that was the most amazing thing I've ever heard. And then everybody stands up and applauds. It's like, how did they get him to this call? Yeah, don't worry. I'll add like a wee bit of applause there. Yay. Oh, the editing master strikes again. Oh, my fragile ego.
00:10:56
Speaker
Yeah, before we talk about the story itself, while we do what we did with To The Moon and talk about something that I think everyone agrees is probably the weakest part of these games, ironically enough being the gameplay. Go negative first, as I always say. But before we go into that, I just want to point out that we are probably going to be going into spoiler territory when it comes to the gameplay, when it comes to the story, so
00:11:23
Speaker
if you haven't played this game. It's only a couple of hours and it's relatively cheap on Steam, so if you want to pause this episode, go away and play it and then come back to this episode. I will not hold that against you, so please feel free to do that. This is your spoiler warning and yeah, let's just jump right in. I thought it was better than To The Moon's gameplay.
00:11:46
Speaker
I will say that. I thought I did a lot of things much better. Would you agree with that? Yeah, I'd agree. I don't think it's leaps and bounds better, but I would agree. I think it was slightly refined into a better format this time around. What did you think made it better in some ways to the mint?
00:12:04
Speaker
If we take the kind of core gameplay, so again the core gameplay of Finding Paradise as with To The Moon is you take control of one of the doctors and you kind of explore a particular memory of the patient and you're looking for kind of, they call them, is it memento? No, it's not memento. So they're looking for kind of like memory orbs.
00:12:23
Speaker
No, I think you're right with mementos. Mementos is the main thing looking for, but there's orbs in there to unlock the memento. Oh, yeah. So you're looking for both memento, which will allow the doctors to travel to a different memory, but to unlock the memento, they need to find a number of different kind of memory orbs around.
00:12:42
Speaker
And then once you've collected all the orbs, you then can interface with the momentum and you've got to do a little puzzle to progress forward. So I liked the refinement that they made to that gameplay. It still controls the exact same way as To the Moon, but I kind of preferred... I both preferred the way that you found the memory orbs, that they felt kind of more logically placed.
00:13:01
Speaker
this time around where i felt with bits of points at to the moon i would just walk somewhere and then a memory orb would unlock and i was like why is that like didn't make sense to me this time i felt like everything kind of made sense either you know a scene played out and then we got an orb or else like you'd interact with an object and an orb you'd get an orb i was like that that makes more sense to me
00:13:19
Speaker
from that way. So I liked that. And then as well, into the moon, once you once you'd unlocked the memento into the moon, you had to do like a sliding tile puzzle to find out where you had to like, basically arrange a picture of the of the memento. They've got rid of that finding paradise. And now it's I don't know what you call it. I just call it like a chain puzzle. Like, do you know the term for that kind of
00:13:38
Speaker
No, but I know what you mean that is, it's like you have to move these orbs to line up, like, is it Pollo? Yeah, like Pollo and, um, I suppose Candy Crush style kind of as well, isn't it? Yeah, like three in a row and then they disappear. Yeah, I don't think there's any specific term for that. Yeah, I don't know quite what to call it even, but yeah, Pollo is a good example, Pollo-esque.
00:14:02
Speaker
I preferred that personally to the sliding tile puzzle. I still don't think it's great, honestly, but I kind of preferred that. I kind of didn't get as frustrated as I did with the sliding tile puzzle. And they do kind of, I think this kind of style that they go for in Finding Paradise allows them to like
00:14:18
Speaker
logically make it a little bit more difficult because they start adding in kind of special tiles that will either like create new sort of pictures that come up or else we'll get rid of them or we'll like change the direction that things move. So it kind of does add a little bit of challenge to it. And they kind of got rid of that, that kind of pointless feature into the room where it was like, oh, here's like the number of tiles, here's the number of moves it should take you to do, but didn't seem to really kind of add anything to the gameplay, whether you made that target or you didn't, they kind of got rid of that. So not my, still not the best. I think I generally prefer those two refinements.
Narrative vs. Gameplay Tension
00:14:47
Speaker
What about yourself?
00:14:48
Speaker
The gameplay definitely felt as if it was a lot more, as you said, refined and very straightforward. I mean, there were a couple of moments where I was getting frustrated by those kind of puzzles, but nothing major, nothing that kind of ruined the game for me. I didn't think, oh god, here we go, another bit like I expected it, but I definitely preferred it to the sliding tile or not sliding, but you know, the tile puzzle.
00:15:15
Speaker
the one in To The Moon. I preferred it to that and I thought they did a lot of things better. There is one particular scene at the end where I know I'm jumping ahead and I don't want to spoil the particular story beat. I'm quite curious. So through To The Moon and by extension Finding Paradise,
00:15:36
Speaker
You have moments where, as you said, you have to find these mementos and you have to get these memory orbs to break the mementos and travel through the person's past and things, which is interesting. But in To The Moon, there's a particular moment at the very end where it becomes quite gameplay heavy, where it's like you have to fight against your colleague who is trying to stop you from
00:16:02
Speaker
that's stopping her as it were but in this one they really bump up the gameplay till living so without kind of spoiling the kind of story beats like there is a final boss at the end that's all i'm going to say just now there is a final boss at the end you have to fight what were your thoughts for that
00:16:18
Speaker
Two, kind of twofold. When those segments appeared, so I won't spoil the story, but if it's all right, I'll describe what the three segments were, just from a gameplay perspective. So you have a bullet hell type segment. You then got a 2D fighting segment, and then finally you have a RPG turn-based battle.
00:16:40
Speaker
They're very light examples of those things, they're not great examples of any of those genres, but I did appreciate their inclusion, mostly because it kind of broke up the gameplay loop, and as much as I feel like the gameplay is refined in this one, it's still not my favourite, I still think it gets a little bit stale after a while, so I kind of appreciated having these moments.
00:17:01
Speaker
as much as they are maybe a little bit jarring and I don't think they always control that well and as I say they're not they're not great examples of any of those kind of three genres I did appreciate the change in kind of gameplay tone just for being something a bit fresh. I am very mixed on that because on the one hand I totally agree there's like some really
00:17:20
Speaker
cool elements in it where you've got like a sidescroller shooter, you've got as you said the turn-based segment and you've got like other things like that where you have to challenge the boss constantly over and over again and you keep getting beat down and then all of a sudden no no you're back up and you've got the power to fight against them.
00:17:40
Speaker
someone did compare it to when you're playing like a especially a grpg and it has like the kind of trope at the end where you have to fight against god which seems to be very very popular you know it starts out with a happy go lucky adventure and it's like oh by the end of it yeah we're fighting this god-like entity and you think oh
00:18:00
Speaker
Oh, great. Yeah, I can't wait for this. Standing alone, I would say from a narrative perspective, and we will get into why in a minute, but from a narrative perspective, I wasn't that big of a fan of that particular segment looking back on it. Did you think it was jarring or did you think it fit in quite well?
00:18:21
Speaker
Again, a little bit of both, because I completely see what you're saying. I do think the inclusion of these gameplay segments kind of undermines a bit of the kind of creepy tone that kind of gets stripped away with these gameplay segments, which do make it very gamey and kind of like, you know, pip pip, hooray, you know. But on the other hand, because for the most part you're playing these segments as Neil Watts,
00:18:45
Speaker
it kind of fit his personality. I felt like to have these segments, so in that respect I think it is fitting, but again I don't think it works fully because I do agree that I think the general tone is quite badly undercut by these gameplay segments and it kind of strips away a lot of the tone that kind of surrounds the end, so it's a shame on that respect. As much as I can see it from a character perspective it makes sense, I don't think it fully works
00:19:13
Speaker
Is there anything else you would say, though? Like, before we get into the positives of this game, is there anything else you would say you didn't feel really worked? What I would say about the gameplay is, like, I appreciate the refinements, but, again, it's a kind of personal
Early Narrative Engagement
00:19:27
Speaker
thing here. Again, the gameplay loop just isn't that satisfying for me in general, just because I think it gets quite stale quite quickly for me. You know, but it's lucky that these games, I think, do have quite strong narratives to keep drawing you through.
00:19:40
Speaker
Yeah so like my kind of other qualms have to do with the kind of narrative itself. I shouldn't go to too many spoilers at this minute, I'll just kind of generally talk about it. What I thought was a real strength of To The Moon was I felt it hooked you in quite quickly so I kind of was a little bit like not uh not kind of chiming with the game for the first like 20 minutes but then there was a moment where you find like a room full of like origami rabbits and I was like right okay and it became kind of creepy and everything and I was like right I'm hooked in now I want to know more and that kind of led me through the game. I
00:20:09
Speaker
didn't find that moment in Finding Paradise until I'd say about coming close to the second hour. And again, I don't know how you feel about this, maybe you have a different opinion to me, but there just wasn't, I didn't find anything that I was like, oh, I really need to unravel this. I was kind of like,
00:20:25
Speaker
Okay, I'm learning a bit more about Colin and his family and some of his memories, but I'm not finding anything that's like, wow, I must unravel this mystery here. And I think part of that comes down to Colin's motivations for undergoing this procedure. And we can discuss this later when we get into the narrative, but I have some issues with that. I also kind of miss that what I really liked about To the Moon was that there was like this, for as much as the story's emotional and heartfelt and can be funny, make you laugh, make you cry, there was this really
00:20:54
Speaker
kind of cool creepy element to it that kind of appeared throughout which i thought was really good and it kind of like i was like oh you know it kind of put me on edge and but mate also like got me really drawn in i felt like finding paradise lacked that and again it's a slightly it is a slightly different or it's obviously a different story to to the moon so perhaps like that kind of creepy tone wouldn't fit as well but i did miss that i have to be honest i did find that a shame and i do feel like when it does start to go it does go for a more kind of creepy horror tone at the end it doesn't commit to that
00:21:24
Speaker
And I was really wanting it to lean more into horror towards the end, but it didn't for me. And part of that is the inclusion of these gameplay segments that we've just talked about. They wanted characters to remain sympathetic, so I guess leaning into horror would have undercut that.
00:21:39
Speaker
Yeah, so those comments, they just didn't sit right with me. What about yourself? Was there anything that kind of stood out for you? I totally get what you mean. Like you're not really as hooked until you get to it. I want to say like two thirds of the way through for this game. This is probably the definition of
00:21:55
Speaker
a slow burner. It don't get me wrong, we will get into and post the fact today and talk about how that is very much a slow burner in its own right. But for Finding Paradise, I totally agree because when you find that room into the moon with the origami rabbits and things and you think
00:22:13
Speaker
Is this going to be a horror game? Is there going to be horror elements? What's going on? And there is a particular moment towards the end that it does turn horror.
Role of Humor in Storytelling
00:22:21
Speaker
But then, as you said, they very much undermine that by having the low random humour which
00:22:29
Speaker
As I said before, Neil Watts is the quintessential shitboaster slash meme maker, so that completely fits with his character, but I feel as if that sacrifices the story. It really undercuts that at times and I get really annoyed at some bits where I'm like,
00:22:48
Speaker
This did not have to be in it. There's some bits where I think they could have maybe done that a bit better and obviously hindsight is like a wonderful thing, you know, you can't say, oh they should have done that because you know, you don't really know until you've completed the game and considering this is made by a relatively small team, and I mean a very small team,
00:23:09
Speaker
you know I can't like criticise it as much for that but just like the low random humour which look at me wrong I do appreciate it for example when Neil was trying to pull down planets from the sky and trying to have like a customisable feature of things there's a lot of like really interesting hooks in it at the beginning but I feel as if they're too small if that makes sense like I don't know how you felt about this see at the beginning where you weren't using the same Sigmund core
00:23:37
Speaker
equipment and things and they had to get two more engineers out to see what was going on. Yeah, yeah, I forgot their names now but I know that I know the two, Dr Winters and Robert Lynn. Yeah, Winters and Lynn. So they're joined by their colleagues Dr Winters and Lynn who have to kind of get them out of this bad situation and support them
00:24:00
Speaker
And there's some really kind of interesting things with Mule's character. You can tell that he's not telling his colleagues everything. He's got a secret anyway, which isn't as expanded on in this particular game. But that was kind of interesting. I thought, okay, this is quite
00:24:20
Speaker
cool to see them flesh out these characters and Neil isn't just the comic relief. The only problem with that is Neil and Rosalind aren't the main characters. Do you know, I feel as if with To The Moon, John and River take more of a prominent role. Do you feel as if River and John take a more prominent role rather than Colin and Sophia?
00:24:46
Speaker
yeah no I would say I think there are more I think John and Johnny and River are a more interesting couple as well at the very least Johnny and River share top billing with like if it was a movie poster all the four like all four of those names would be like the same height you know right along the top well I completely agree with this one it feels like Eva Roslin and Neil Watts right at the top and there's like a with you know with Colin and Sophia and fate so yeah I completely see what you're saying I think they call that it all
00:25:15
Speaker
yeah it just it kind of feels like more their journey through the mind rather than Colin's own experience at times and I'm gonna be honest like I found River and Johnny so much more compelling over Colin because as you said although I do like the fact that he's very vague about his request
00:25:37
Speaker
It does seem kind of weird that we would spend, I want to say, because they never specify, but I want to say like thousands of dollars maybe to undergo this procedure that his wife and child or rather sorry adult son are both very against. So they must be like a really good reason.
00:25:57
Speaker
and I have to admit I do like the payoff, I do like the ending and this kind of rationale but I will come on to that eventually but at the very beginning it does seem like he's just stumbled across, I don't know, a voucher for Sycamore and Groupon or something that he's like, oh this would be cool to do and the wife is like, are you insane? And he's like, nah!
00:26:20
Speaker
I just want to try it. I just want to try it. Yeah, there's some elements of the narrative that maybe don't hold up as well into the moon and vice versa. Through the moon there's some elements where you think, I don't know, but would you agree with that Adam? Yeah, I think the faults
00:26:37
Speaker
are more noticeable for me in finding paradise than to the moon and it kind of all starts with Colin's motivation for going to Sigmund Corps. I really did not understand that and I'm not totally sure I still I kind of read some stuff afterwards so perhaps you can like
00:26:52
Speaker
explained, perhaps you can tell me if I'm on the right track here. So I guess we're gonna go proper, proper spoilers now. So Colin decides to go to Sigmund Kaur. Is it basically through a sense of like FOMO? He's like, maybe I haven't, you know, lived my best life and perhaps I've missed out. And there's a reason that he wants to live his best life. As you say, it does kind of pay off at the end, but is that sort of the reason that he goes
Exploring Colin's Motivations
00:27:13
Speaker
to Sigmund Kaur? It's just, it's just literally, I say it's just literally, but it's a kind of FOMO thing rather than, you know, with Johnny being like, he has this specific request, but he can't remember why.
00:27:22
Speaker
That's what I got from it personally. It's definitely not apparent until the very, very end about why he wants to do all of this, and eventually in going to spoiler territory here, like deep spoilers, there's a moment where they realise that the best thing for them to do is instead of erasing a particular part of
00:27:47
Speaker
Colin's memory, they decide the Sigmund Kor crew of Eva and Neil, they both decide that they are gonna erase themselves from Colin's memory as if they never came to visit him and he just lives his life out because it is quite weird when they keep saying things like
00:28:05
Speaker
oh I want to live my life but have nothing changed in it and they're taking notes and things about moments that could have caused this inadequacy like him trying to propose to his wife with the like is it a sky writer? The illiterate sky writer. Yeah that was fantastic after that.
00:28:24
Speaker
You know, it's misspelled and he feels guilty for that, he feels guilty for trying to propose. He wasn't able to propose the way he wanted to propose, like I think he spilled his drink on her and everything. He ends up botching like his last flight, like it gets a bit bumpy and he kind of feels quite inadequate for that.
00:28:45
Speaker
What I would say though, although I think that To The Moon is relatable, I think Colin's reasoning is probably one of the most relatable ones. And I'm going to explain right now why I think this because you might be thinking when you go through this game you think.
00:29:02
Speaker
really they didn't change it and I thought that initially, even if I first played this game I thought so this was kind of a waste of time, you know, Sigmund Kohler didn't need to be here. There was literally no point because they erase themselves, it lives out his life, but there's a particular scene at the very end where he's talking to an individual that's been part of his life and he's chatting the way to her and
00:29:25
Speaker
he basically gets asked by her, do you have any regrets in life? And he says, sure, I've got hundreds of regrets. But at the same time, that is something that has shaped my life and everything. And I'm not going to lie, that really hit me like a ton of bricks the first time I read it because I personally, and I don't know how you feel, Adam, but like going through life, there are so many things that I've done, good, bad, whatever.
00:29:51
Speaker
where I've had a moment where I thought, I really wish that I had gone this direction in life or I had gone that direction in life.
00:30:00
Speaker
you know that way Adam when you kind of just sit up at night and you think what would have happened if I took the doughnut instead of the bagel and then I might have missed the train or something. You know you would have had a completely different life experience and whether it's good or bad that is really what life is. You know you've got all these wonderful memories, you've got all these horrible memories, you've got this big stew of memories mixing the good and bad together and
00:30:26
Speaker
At the end of the day, that is what makes your life your life. These good moments, these bad moments. And he comes to that realisation by the end of it and he realises that, apologies for the kind of cheesy tagline here, but he has found his paradise by realising that this is life. You know, he doesn't have to have a perfect life. He doesn't have to have people invading his remedies and
00:30:51
Speaker
Obviously there's a stark contrast because Johnny's reasoning is because he wants to reunite with River which still gets me, don't get me wrong, still may be teared up but the reason he wants to go to the moon is because that's where he may be a wee bit facetiously but he said to River as a child he says oh we'll meet on the moon, we both get lost and you know by the end of it that's exactly where they meet before he passes on.
00:31:18
Speaker
And with this, I do think it's more, no pun intended here, it's more down to earth, where he does recognise his followers. And it's something that I think a lot of us have gone through in our lives. You know, it's something that people think, oh, I could have done this better, I could have done that. But it's a lot harder to accept that those particular memories or those particular experiences shape
00:31:43
Speaker
who we are. I mean like for example Adam, if I never go in to see that double billing of Terminator that day, you and I might have not met. I don't think you think of the successful life you'd be living jet-sitting into. It's like you and that scene out of The Simpsons where it's like, can you imagine a world without lawyers? I don't know, like dancing around. He's like, could you imagine a world without Chetsunami? Just one old piece.
00:32:08
Speaker
I've literally just imagined now you had the choice you were like right okay now I've got two options today right I could I could take this luxury flight to Abu Dhabi and you know I go to this like massive party that I've been invited to or I could go see Terminator double billy whatever happens you get to the Terminator double bill yeah there's an alternate universe out there where I'm doing this showing my own and immeasurable and I've got the big beard when I'm like god I wish I had a coast
00:32:34
Speaker
But you're doing it from like a room encased in gold on a gold microphone. The sound quality is terrible. It's the principle. That my God is glorious. But I mean, what are your, if it's okay to ask you, Adam, like what are your thoughts on that?
00:32:49
Speaker
Do you know what, it was such an excellent point, many excellent points you made there. It actually wasn't something I'd completely considered about this game, but you're 100% right from a kind of relatable down to earth sense. This succeeds, I think, a lot more than To The Moon. It's a really interesting point because it's that sort of dichotomy that I think if we're looking at this from a story perspective and a kind of work of fiction and stuff, I think To The Moon is better in that example. I think it's a more compelling mystery. I think it has
00:33:20
Speaker
slightly better characters, you know, there's like a real, there's like a real sense of like, I want to find out more, you get kind of more hooked in. But thematically, in a more relatable sense, you're completely right, you're finding paradise is a lot, finding paradise's story is a lot more relatable. And I completely know what you mean with that idea of looking back at decisions you've made and being like, man, like,
00:33:39
Speaker
Why didn't I do this or whatever, you know, but then not realizing perhaps if you'd done that, you wouldn't be, you know, there wouldn't be the great thing you have in your life now. So that's such a good point and not something I consider. It adds like an extra layer to this game and actually kind of makes me, makes me appreciate it more. So again, it is, it is that way. And I think about, I think a lot of things in Finding Paradise. So maybe I was looking at it too much from like a kind of, you know, entertainment perspective. And I found some of the stuff a bit lacking in that regard. But as you say, looking at it from this other kind of, from like a more human kind of.
00:34:06
Speaker
perspective. It succeeded in so many ways so that was a really excellent point that you made there. I totally see what you mean though because in some regards to the moon does like things a lot better but it is definitely a lot more outlandish and you know they literally want to rewrite Johnny's life to put him through fantasy NASA.
00:34:27
Speaker
and trying you know reuniting with River and things like that whereas in this I actually don't think much of his life changes because he does specify that and I do think it is just like just such a beautiful moment when you see very relatable moments within it like as much as I absolutely adore To The Moon and it's by far like in my top 10 games
00:34:51
Speaker
A lot of the set pieces are a bit outlandish, I would say, with the lighthouses and the big mansion on the hill and everything. Don't get me wrong, it's not impossible for something like that to happen. It could very well be feasible.
00:35:07
Speaker
but for finding paradise they do go a bit more realistic, you know, it's like Colin is a very lonely child, he has these feelings of self inadequacy, he doesn't believe he can do it, and then his BFF, who comes in
00:35:24
Speaker
quite early on, I want to say, because it's quite interesting. The way to the moon work was they have to go through a patient's life like in increments. So they have to go from Benjamin Button style from old man all the way to a child. But in this case, because they're using faulty equipment, they kind of go in a spiral path, which I thought was interesting. They start off as an old man straight to a child, then to just on the cusp of elderly to kind of
00:35:54
Speaker
older, younger, older, younger age, keeps going back and forth. I thought that was quite interesting because I thought, oh great, I'm gonna have to do the same things to the moon again, and you really didn't. And you know, he has some very relatable experiences, like he's afraid to talk to his future wife, he ends up marrying her, having a
00:36:16
Speaker
baby with her and everything. And that's a really, really sweet scene. Like even though, you know, it's Pixels, you see like him trying to teach his son to walk and everything, playing with him. You know, you see him roll in his eyes and the photos. I thought that was really a nice touch. You know, there's a lot of kind of memories like that that I think a lot of people playing this game would relate to. At least a lot better compared to some of the moments in To The Moon.
00:36:43
Speaker
As we go on, should we talk about the elephant in the
Sci-Fi Twist with Faye's Character
00:36:47
Speaker
room? You know who. I think it's something we brought into the party. So there's a particular character that we both haven't raised during this discussion, that of course being Faye. Throughout the game Faye is characterised as quite a mischievous and kind of
00:37:03
Speaker
provoking character to Colin who's very mild mannered, he's quite quiet and she's very boisterous and oh come on let's do it she's like oh you want to fly a plane come on let's go into this airport and get a job and work your way up and everything and oh you want to play scales on the side of this cliff oh i'll play with you this very positive figure in his life
00:37:28
Speaker
And then plot twist at the very end reveals that, and are you ready for this Adam? Are you ready? I'm not sure but go for it. Of course the plot twist being that she was an imaginary friend that was a cribbler.
00:37:44
Speaker
Which I have to admit, I have mixed feelings on, but the more I thought about it, the more I kind of thought, nah, I suppose this game is more sci-fi. Like, although there's a lot of realistic elements, this game really is more sci-fi, isn't it?
00:38:00
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like it kind of leans a bit more into that, into some of those tropes. They wear it like a comfy jacket at times where they're just like, oh, I can't wait to talk about this particular whatever the headgear is. Oh, I can't wait to talk about the technicalities of this. And you think, OK, so it's not going to be like a standard paint by the numbers kind of thing. It was not with what it was before. What did you think of it, though? Did you expect this twist?
00:38:28
Speaker
I didn't see this twist coming so it was effective in that regard. I was joking to you about my theory and I was like god this makes me sound like such an idiot but my theory is because because as you say this character is called Faye and Colin's wife is called Sophia who he keeps calling equals Faye at points and I was like oh my god is this going to be the same person and then I'm more so I'm like what the hell do I think I think she just like puts on a wig and then like
00:38:51
Speaker
It's a completely different person and Colin's like, oh, hello, random stranger I've never met before. So I was completely, because apparently I'm an idiot, I was completely like, the hoodwinked by the twist. So it was good in that respect. I think it has a lovely payoff. You know, I think it really works at the end. I don't, I don't fully know how to feel about it.
00:39:11
Speaker
because as you say it does push the story into a much more kind of sci-fi element and you know we then have this like rogue ai like running around causing mayhem and as the reveal happens that she is like imaginary and she then she then begins to kind of take control of the machine because it's not like a
00:39:30
Speaker
a standardised company machine, it's one that Neil's kind of modified and played around with, so she's able to kind of hack it and take control of it. And that's where the game kind of feels like it's going to shift into a kind of more horror, you know, sort of element. But then again, if they were to do that, at the end of the day, they wanted Faye to remain a sympathetic character.
00:39:49
Speaker
So the game couldn't, I don't think the game could have shifted into full horror because I think she would have had to become a very kind of malignant and sort of more evil presence than what the kind of sympathetic portrayal they wanted. So in that respect, the kind of shift of the horror wouldn't have made sense. So again, it's why I kind of feel odd because I really want, I really wanted that kind of shift of the horror. There have been, I think there have been some horror games, really good horror games made with the RPG made
00:40:12
Speaker
There's one called The Witch's House, which has actually got some very scary moments in it. So it can be done, but again, I think it just would have maybe undercut the story too much. So I don't fully know how to feel. I don't fully know how to feel about it because I think it works in the end. I think there's interesting themes that come along with it, but I just don't think everything fits into place nicely. What about yourself? Yeah, I'm going to agree with that.
00:40:36
Speaker
I know it's because it's Neil's custom-built Sigmund Korg year and everything and he's like messing around with the safety parameters and that's why V is a thing but I don't know, I genuinely don't know how to feel because in the one hand I do really like her character but I feel as if once they reveal, in quite a cool way, but once they reveal that V is an imaginary figure that's taking over the mind and trying to expel them from his memories
00:41:05
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. She is a fun character, but as soon as they bring in the whole neo-versus-fay thing, I don't know. And I'm not gonna lie, in To The Moon, there was a lot of moments where I sat there gasping and going, oh, I can't believe that, I can't believe this happened, and that's the reason they want to go to the moon, and oh, that's a shame.
00:41:29
Speaker
I'm gonna be honest, although I did tear up at the very, very end, I really didn't feel that sad at a lot of moments, like especially when Colin says goodbye to Faye and purposely says, you know, oh, I should really move on, I should grow up and everything, and she disappears. I didn't really tear up at that. It's like, you know that way when you're watching a film or playing a game and it's like, because we were talking about this before we came on tonight, where
00:41:56
Speaker
we're talking about games that emotionally manipulate you to feel sad and I'm not saying this game manipulates you but it did feel as if it's saying okay you should feel sad that Faye's going for good wink wink but it didn't feel that sad it was kind of like all right okay oh she's a it was like a Bruce Willis all over again it's like oh she wasn't there the entire time oh what a shot but and yes I just realised I spoiled that film but
00:42:25
Speaker
You son of a bitch. I know you were going to watch it tonight Adam. Oh my god. I was like mad I've made it for all my life without finding out the ending of that film. You know we haven't said the name of it so maybe people won't figure it out. It's Die Hard. Yeah. Do you know I've completely blanked on all the Bruce Willis films. Other than the one we're talking about. I don't really play the anthropomorphic raccoon. The animated one. Does it? This is like Over the Hedge or something. Oh right. I thought you were talking about Guardians of the Galaxy.
00:42:56
Speaker
Yeah, do you not know who voices Rocky Rocky? I was like, there's no way. See, that would have been a better twist.
00:43:03
Speaker
that one really would have got you. That one really would have. Bradley Cooper as Bruce Willis. Bradley Cooper as Bruce Willis as Rocket Raccoon. My god. But yeah, no, going back to that, I totally agree with you. I don't know where I sit with this. I liked the ending, and I liked the bit before the reveal when there was kinda wee horror elements, but as soon as it turned into a stereotypical RPG maker,
00:43:29
Speaker
fight or rather battle scene. I honestly felt as if it undercut a lot of the seriousness of the story. I just felt as if it wasn't maybe the right thing to do. Again, people love this game, I'm not taking that away from anyone, but did you feel that way? The more I think about it, the more I think that her quote-unquote evil turn, as much as it's not really evil, was a mistake.
00:43:54
Speaker
because it's not looking at where the story is going and where it ends and the way they wanted her to be characterised. That tone does not fit and it feels jarring. And then when we get into the gameplay elements, which is much I enjoyed, are jarring in their own way as well and undercut a lot of things.
00:44:11
Speaker
I think it would have been better if they'd gone for a more sort of Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind tone and story with it. I won't spoil that film if anybody's not seen it but that has a kind of similar setup to the kind of general premise of To the Moon and Finding Paradise and it goes like it has like it gives a kind of analogy between the main characters in that film and then Colin and
00:44:33
Speaker
and Faye in Finding Paradise and I kind of feel like if the game had gone more of that direction and that does not have like a horror turn in that film so I think the more I think about that the more I think that was a mistake because if they were going to make her like an evil sort of it would have worked if she'd been like an evil like you know more like in the presence they really would have worked but for what her character is it just it feels out of place and I think it kind of disrupts it kind of like knocks the train off the tracks I think it gets back on by the end and I think it rounds out nicely but that really feels like a
00:45:02
Speaker
it feels like a roadblock and it feels like a just really out of place the more I think about it. I mean that is the problem I feel with both To The Moon and Finding Paradise because I do love, or rather maybe I lost a strong word, but I do really like
00:45:18
Speaker
Neel's character at times, where although he is like this kind of aloof and goofy character, he does have a serious and kind of secretive side to him. You know, I'm not going to be sitting here saying going, wow he's so dreamy, but you know, you think...
00:45:33
Speaker
there is a complexity to his character and when you decide that you're gonna undermine that with like an epic boss battle between because it does make sense because he has this whole transformation scene and then there's a, what do they call that, what's the Ryan Johnson thing subverting your expectations?
00:45:53
Speaker
I couldn't think of the term, but I could remember Ryan Johnson. It did feel as if they were just with that whole sequence. It's a fun enough sequence. As you said, I remember messaging you, asking you how you felt about that particular moment, and what was it you said to me? Like Gordon Ramsay, finally some good gameplay. I was like, I can't gameplay? I'm liking my gameplay now, facetiously like that.
00:46:16
Speaker
That's the thing. I just there's so many conflicting feelings I have about that because I'll know on that I am like I did I did enjoy those gameplay segments or you know as Shallow not not not me to be critical but it's kind of shallow as they are I still really enjoyed them But the more I think about them like they're just they're just feel so out of place that it just feels so weird It really does like you talking about it kind of falling into sci-fi is so it's such a perfect description and it becomes that way and I
00:46:41
Speaker
I feel like if Faye had remained more attached to Colin and was this like the obviously imaginary friend that then became the kind of protector of his memories, I think is a really interesting thing. I think it would have been better if they'd stayed that but then, you know, she kind of becomes attached to Neil as well. And then kind of the game has like a post credit scene where he's like captured kind of Faye's, you know, like presence and stuff. And he's obviously going to try and be like working on that for like a kind of
00:47:08
Speaker
AI purposes. And again, that just feels like we're so far into sci fi, it feels completely separate from, you know, the kind of grounded emotion and reality of Colin's story of Finding Paradise, which is so effective, and especially like, the more you think about it, that just feels so like jarring next to it.
Conclusion and Emotional Resonance
00:47:25
Speaker
I like a lot of the ideas and the themes, and that's why I say I really like the theme in the beginning where it's like Colin wants to do this thing, but his family is so against him. I thought that was really interesting. Because obviously in To the Moon, by the time Johnny's doing this, his wife's passed away and it's just him. He's a guy's caretaker, but it's just him really, so he can make this kind of decision.
00:47:44
Speaker
It's interesting to see it from the perspective of somebody, others who have to live with, you know, a lot of decision to undergo this process. I thought that was really interesting, but that kind of gets jettisoned, you know, by about the halfway point and we're more focused on fae and stuff. And there's a lot of interesting things there and finding out she's imaginary, but then it takes the sci-fi twist. It just feels like there's a lot of competing themes here that don't always gel and they kind of like push each other out of the way and they don't sit comfortably in the end, which is a shame.
00:48:09
Speaker
No totally agree with you there. It definitely feels like the... what's the phrase they used to say to us in school? The oil and water kind of analogy. Oh yeah. Well you know both of them two completely different liquids. They both don't mix at all. You can definitely tell that with some of the themes in Finding Paradise because on the one hand you do have this kind of element of as you said sci-fi and
00:48:34
Speaker
oh is it morally right to do X Y Z but it feels as if with this game it's more prominent as we said at the very beginning of this episode it's how Colin almost takes a sideline to his own story like i don't feel as if he gets nearly as much like i feel as if he makes more of a presidency when he's a child and everything but towards the rest of his life it feels like
00:49:01
Speaker
it doesn't have as much of a role it's more Eva and Neo trying to figure out what the hell's going on in his memory because there's a bit where they think that Colin might have dementia and I have to admit I actually did think that
00:49:17
Speaker
when you saw, you know, Faye coming and going and everything, and I thought that's the direction that we're gonna go. I thought, oh, it's gonna be a dementia story where he's been losing his memory and everything. I thought that would be interesting. I would have liked to have seen that maybe, or not liked, that's a very weird way to put it, but it would have been interesting to see that. But instead they went with the sci-fi twist,
00:49:42
Speaker
I still love this game but I do feel as if I do agree that there are too many conflicting moments in this game and it's a shame. It is a shame at times. I wouldn't say it spoils the entire game like this isn't a write off but yeah did you feel the same
00:49:59
Speaker
Yeah, I just wanted to repeat as well. I feel like I've been very negative and critical of this. I still think it's a very good game, this one. I do think it's worth playing. Especially if you like To The Moon, I think it's really worth checking this one out. As much as there are issues and I think there are bits that don't sit easily together, I think it ends really well, this game.
00:50:17
Speaker
all comes together nice in the end and I do so I do think as much as I might have some slight issues other things I don't think it really it doesn't overall affect the end product I think because it does come together really nicely and it is very sweet and emotional and heartfelt and so it does the job there there's lots of interest there is a really interesting grounded sort of relatable you know theme here of living with your regrets and you know and learning to even appreciate them you know not always want to change them which I think is really a great message and some of the
00:50:47
Speaker
It's just saying you bringing it up has made me think about this completely differently, so it is still a really good game. It's a really good story. I think it starts well and it ends well, and that's probably the most important thing. It's almost a bit like, not to compare this to Bioshock Infinite, but it's that same sort of way in that I think both these games start and end really, really well. They're a bit jumbled in the middle and things don't always sit well together and maybe some things don't make sense,
00:51:10
Speaker
you know at the end of the day that's not what you're going to remember for the most part you might be like oh yeah that didn't really you know that the turn-based boss battle didn't really fit that well but then that's not what you're gonna think about you're gonna think oh man you're gonna think about Colin and Fay having their last sort of you know meeting together on the balcony and then they say like you're right it doesn't these kind of quibbles don't affect the story and it still is a really
00:51:32
Speaker
I do think Bioshock Infinite is probably the perfect example to compare this game to, because you're completely right. Both games have a fantastic beginning, they've got a fantastic ending, and then there's that kind of saggy bit in the middle, but no, totally agree. I do think that that is a fair analysis. It's not really what you're gonna remember in the middle, you're not gonna remember the bits that you think.
00:51:55
Speaker
this bit's not as good, that bit's not as good, you know, you're gonna remember the hard-hitting ending, you're gonna remember the ominous beginning of why he does call and want to go through this when his wife and son clearly are against it and I do think going back to the ending, I think the ending is absolutely beautiful and I was saying this to you before we started recording but there is one particular moment in the ending that
00:52:19
Speaker
somebody pointed out to me and I cannot get it out my mind every time I watch it. So it's a bit of an obvious one right enough, but it's not one I was thinking of at the time because I was too busy sobbing through the tears being like, oh it's so sad. But at the very end Sigmund Kaur realised that the problem isn't fair because they've been battling Kaur trying to get it out the system and they realized Colin doesn't need them to take away fair, but it might help if
00:52:48
Speaker
Sigmundkor are taken out instead. So what they do is they erase themselves from his memories. So instead of seeing the advert for Sigmundkor and everything, Colin and Sophia end up just driving by it, just cuddling up in the sofa, watching that. I can't remember what it is, but it's like the Rudolf dog cartoon, whatever that was. I can't remember the name of the dog, can you? I think it's Rudolf, isn't it? Rudolf, that's the one. Not to be confused with the beer manufacturer, but
00:53:18
Speaker
At the very end, once they get to the main climax of the story, Colin sees his wife sleeping on the bed, and that's kind of how it begins when they go into the memory that the wife is sleeping on their bed, completely passed out, and I just want to reiterate from something I said in the To The Moon episode, I do think that this bright work
00:53:39
Speaker
is fantastic the way the characters are so emotive despite being quite simple in some regards. I think it's fantastic especially the way of Sophia's like lying on the bed as if she's just conked out like a very realistic way. It's not like in Pokemon where if you walk under the sheets it's just like a floating head under the bed, you know, so it was really nice seeing that attention to detail. But as you said before he goes onto the balcony and he looks over to see Fe right across from him.
00:54:08
Speaker
and this is like an obvious parallel where at the very beginning when they go to his childhood memories he sees a Skirrell called Faye who thinks they're real and he uses Faye as a coping mechanism for his own loneliness and there are references as well to a previous game that I think came out before
00:54:30
Speaker
finding paradise called Bird Story. We can see that Colin is a very lonely child, he doesn't have any friends, he just has a who's just this manifestation that he's created and as we said before seeing the one hand you think really it was all a dream it's you know facing the real because I was expecting
00:54:49
Speaker
I'm not gonna lie I was expecting him to come home one day and Faye would have been like hit by a truck or something they would have been like oh are they doing the same thing as they did to the moon but no they completely don't they do something completely out of their field so it ends the way it begins and it's such a poignant speech that he gives you know he says how although he has all these regrets and moments in his life he's still as grateful and
00:55:15
Speaker
Not only does it show that he clearly loves his wife, he loves his wife, he loves his child, which just makes all those moments. So there's like a montage before that where Faye kinda goes through all his memories to take out the Sigmund Korr references, and he's just happy. He's living his life, he's raising his son, he's raising him with
00:55:35
Speaker
a very loving and supportive life, having the time of their lives and everything. And then at the very end you know he says that, has no regrets and things, and she says although she was gone she was always looking over him and everything which is sad in its own right. And then the bit that absolutely
00:55:52
Speaker
breaks me down is when he returns in from the balcony and he sees his wife on the bed and there's this kind of like split perspective where on the one side he sees his like you see him going to his wife but then you see his wife going to him as he's dying on the bed and it's just the fact that on his final moments he just spent it with his wife
00:56:18
Speaker
and vice versa and they both kiss one another like it's a final goodbye and I don't know that just really and you can probably hear it my voice but that just really made me feel emotional that bit because I thought it's such a poignant ending that he went through all of this just to realise that all these regrets all these errors are really what made him who he was, what made up his life and he wouldn't trade that for the world and he truly loves this woman yeah
00:56:46
Speaker
absolutely broke man. Between that and instead of Into the Moon when the person dies you hear like the monitor flatline and it's almost as if it's like a machine but they weave in because both, I know we haven't really mentioned it, but both Colin and Sophia are musicians so instead it's like the I think it's a cello that plays at the end and it's like it plays along with the heart monitor
00:57:12
Speaker
So you hear the heart monitor beeping, and then instead of hearing the beep pitch, just like the final note from this string instrument, it's just beautiful, honestly. I know there's the epilogue that's not as sad. It's still cute as you're like, hmm, what's going to happen? But compared to that last moment, that is just beautiful. I honestly couldn't, like, big up this game more if I tried.
00:57:34
Speaker
again I feel weird calling this a game. It's not a game in the traditional sense, it's more an experience that you go through because you want to know about calling, you want to know about who Fe is, who Sophia is, why he wants to go through this potentially life-altering experience and yeah once again it's like
00:57:57
Speaker
You want to kind of get rid of the gameplay just to go through it and see what's going to happen next. But before we wrap up, Adam, is there anything you want to say about the final scenes of this game? I just want to cosine everything you've said. You've said it beautifully and perfectly. I don't think I really need to add much.
00:58:16
Speaker
But yeah, everything from Colin's final moment to his final conversation with Faye, to the montage just before that of the important moments in Colin's life. It's so beautifully done. The montage is emotionally manipulative, but that's not a bad thing. I don't think there's anything wrong with it being emotionally manipulated. And it really is touching and heartfelt.
00:58:38
Speaker
Yeah, it's a beautiful ending. And that's why we're both saying as much as there are faults you can levy against this game, they really don't matter. In the end, when you take everything together, it's a beautiful game, it's well worth experiencing, and yeah. So just co-sign everything you said. In all honesty, I think that's why we do start these episodes with the negatives. Because it might sound as if we are criticising this game and saying, oh, I didn't like the gameplay, I didn't like this or that.
00:59:05
Speaker
And there isn't a reason for that, that we start with the negatives because there's so much we want to talk about with the positives of this game. We want to say we love X, we love Y, we love Z, but we have to recognise what could have been done better. And it's unfortunate these things happen, but
00:59:21
Speaker
Again, that's the thing though and it's kind of ironic because it's kind of similar to what Colin goes through, you know, he goes through like a life of regret and then he realises that at the end of the day that's what shaped him and it's the same with us playing through this game. It's like on the one hand there are things that could have been done better, there could have been better gameplay, there could have been this or that but
00:59:46
Speaker
At the same time, we're still here. We're still talking about this game. We're still praising it. And despite our experience, we still had a fantastic interaction with this game. We criticise because we care. At the end of the day, if this had been some kind of mediocre thing, we wouldn't be as annoyed by the faults. We'd have been like, well, you know, it wasn't that great anyway, so who really cares? It's because we like it so much that these things kind of hit a little bit more. You're like, oh, you know, it annoys me more, these faults, but that's just because it's so good.
01:00:15
Speaker
because I mean if you want to hear us really rant on something you can listen to our I think it's our Alone in the Dark episode or our Burdemic episode and see us kind of flippantly say oh we don't like XYZ and everything in a comedic tone but for Finding Paradise you're completely right Adam it's because we care about this game so much that we want to know more we want to discuss these elements before we wrap up just in a general sense
01:00:43
Speaker
Is there anything you want to say about this game? So I think I think overall, if I was to compare this to To The Moon, I still think I prefer To The Moon a bit more. I just was really hooked into that game. Like I really I think the story is really well crafted. I don't think it really puts too many foots wrong. So I think as an overall experience, I'd still rate To The Moon slightly higher than this. But finding paradise is still great. And I would still recommend playing this. And I say, especially if you really enjoyed To The Moon,
01:01:11
Speaker
definitely give this one a look because I think you'll really like it and just hearing you talk about it has given me an extra appreciation and it was something that I think you said just before we started you said this was a game that stayed with you and you really thought about and that kind of you know like it went up in your estimation and I think that's completely true just just hearing you talk about parts of this you know has made me think about it more and like oh that's actually you know that was really well done and that's actually really thought-provoking and a really interesting point so
01:01:39
Speaker
definitely play this one and definitely just let it ruminate in your brain because I think you will get a real an extra appreciation for it more than you will have you know finishing it and it's you know the story maybe maybe every now and then it puts a foot wrong and you know some of the some of the gameplay bits are a bit jarring you know and not always the best but overall it's still a fantastic experience
01:01:58
Speaker
It's well worth playing, well worth just experiencing. So I would highly recommend playing this. I would still say play to the moon first. If you haven't played any of the can-go games, play to the moon first and then move on to this one. But still definitely give this one a look because it's really great.
01:02:14
Speaker
I have heard Kangou actually say that you can play these games in any order, really. And don't get me wrong, if you don't play To The Moon before you play Finding Paradise, it's not gonna affect the game horribly so, but nah, I'm with you Adam, and I think it's only one of the only times where I maybe disagree with the original author of his work, where I think you definitely get a lot more out of Finding Paradise by playing To The Moon, because
01:02:44
Speaker
narratively they're not really linked but no, I totally agree. I would say play to the moon first. Usually when it's on sale it's on Steam for relatively cheap and I think it's on the Switch now so if you haven't played this game and if you haven't played Finding Paradise, both of which I would wholeheartedly recommend. There's not enough words that I can say for this.
01:03:09
Speaker
See, although I've just gone off and I've said all of that about the game, it did take me a while, as you said, to borrow a phrase from you to kind of ruminate over all of these thoughts and feelings about the game because I was quite sad with myself. I'm not gonna lie, because I wasn't getting as emotionally invested in finding Paradise until the very end.
01:03:32
Speaker
And I was thinking, oh God, is there something wrong with me? I'm not feeling as sad. I'm not tearing up the same until obviously, as I said, the very end of the game. But
01:03:41
Speaker
yeah when you play this game there are bits that are going to be a slow burner so just give it time just be patient with the game and honestly it's only about the day or four hours long really maximum. I wouldn't rush the route but don't feel as if you know if you're not getting it to begin with just take it slow and yeah just enjoy the journey that's all I have to say buy this game
01:04:09
Speaker
See if we ever had an episode where Kangou actually comes on this podcast. Can you imagine? It's just like, number one, why did you make the game play the way it was? It's like, yeah, number two, like, my God, you're a masterful storyteller. Yes, number two, why did you make me cry three times?
01:04:28
Speaker
Actually, did you know that the To The Moon film's still coming out, apparently? Is it? Oh, that's good. That's exciting. Because it was like, I think it was an anniversary livestream they did, and they had all the Q&A questions, and apparently it's still in the works. So for anyone who doesn't know, the To The Moon game is supposed to be getting a film adaptation. I think it's like an animated one, but I could be wrong in that. I think it'll fit really well into that format. Yeah.
01:04:53
Speaker
I would say so as well. If it's animated then definitely but it's been a while. I think they announced that ages ago it was going to be a film but see once it comes out it'll be fantastic if it does. I'm going to be pushing you to the side Adam being like move I'm going in.
01:05:08
Speaker
On that note, thank you Adam for giving your time and your patience to play this game. No, my pleasure once again and thank you for introducing me to this series of games because I seriously doubt I would have ever come across or played these games, if not for your encouragement. So thank you very much Satsu for pushing me towards these games and letting me experience them because it's been great.
01:05:32
Speaker
it's been great and there is one more there is one more so I'm sure I'm sure some point down the line we'll look at that one so I look forward to seeing to seeing how this I don't know if it's the if it's the final game or not but how this how this series either ends or continues I'm going to be so interested to hear what you have to say about impostor factory it's going to be great it's all I'll say is is a minor minor spoiler not for the story or anything but it is a lot different compared to the other two that's all I'm going to say
01:06:00
Speaker
it's a lot different compared to the other two but yeah one day we will get there and to be able I'm just laughing because I'm thinking in the background we've got like green shield like rocking back and forth going when are we gonna get to the imposter factory
01:06:18
Speaker
And on that note, thank you all so, so much for listening to this episode. If you would like to check out more of our content, you can check us out on Spotify, iTunes, YouTube, and of course, our website under the name Chat Tsunami. Just look for the red panda and we will see you there. Until then, thank you for listening. As always, stay safe, stay awesome, stay hydrated and keep looking for that paradise.