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YHM 081 - Cycle of Beauty with Sanna Averbuch
62 Plays1 year ago
In this episode of Your Health Minute, join hosts Calvin, Cameron, and Alanna as they delve into the fascinating journey of Sanna Averbuch, a 4th-year ND medical student. Uncover the multifaceted nature of acne, its root causes, and how Sanna's passion for dance shaped her views on food and beauty standards.
Explore holistic, naturopathic approaches to skin health and practical self-care tips to enhance your overall well-being.
Tune in to redefine beauty beyond skin deep and discover how mental and emotional health contributes to true self-confidence.
Trigger Warning: This episode includes discussions about eating disorders.
Follow Sanna:
@cycleofbeauty
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Transcript
00:00:10
aquaomega
Hello and welcome to another episode of Your Health Minute, brought to you by Aqua Omega. I am your host today, Calvin Morrow, and co-hosting with me is Cameron and Alana.
00:00:20
Alanna
Hello!
00:00:21
aquaomega
Hey guys, thank you. And today we have a very special guest. Santa, sorry, Santa, I didn't ask how to pronounce your last name. Santa Averbuch? Averbuch?
00:00:30
Sanna Averbuch
the top one. That was pretty good.
00:00:32
aquaomega
Yeah, how would how would you say it so that way everyone knows?
00:00:36
Sanna Averbuch
Yeah, so my first name is Senna and then Everbot.
00:00:39
aquaomega
but Okay.
00:00:39
Sanna Averbuch
right
00:00:39
aquaomega
Thank you so much for for being on the show.
00:00:42
Sanna Averbuch
Yeah.
00:00:42
aquaomega
Um, so today's episode is called cycle of beauty. And we are going to be kind of talking about your story a little bit as a dancer and how you've kind of led your life into, um, becoming an ND.
00:00:48
Cameron Cogswell
Thank you.
00:00:53
aquaomega
You're currently in your fourth year. Is it at CCNM?
00:00:56
Sanna Averbuch
yeah
00:00:57
aquaomega
It is. So I was hoping maybe to give you an opportunity to introduce yourself, um, to our audience and then maybe let us know what was that moment that, that you knew that, Hey, I want to, I want to pursue being a naturopathic doctor. Like what was that moment for you?
00:01:09
Sanna Averbuch
Yeah, so I am in my fourth final year, one week away from graduating, which is exciting, soon to be an MD.
00:01:15
aquaomega
next
00:01:16
Sanna Averbuch
My mom is actually a naturopathic doctor for 25 years. So I've been around that my whole life, and she was always helping me with little things. And then when I started to get quite bad acne, that was when I really started to kind of understand the whole aspect of naturopathic medicine. And we tried so many things conventionally, and then she really helped me
00:01:33
aquaomega
Nice. Mm hmm.
00:01:38
Sanna Averbuch
with kind of understanding the root cause of it, kind of backstory of my acne. I had to back to back kind of unplanned surgeries and then they give you quite big bolts of antibiotics. And it was 10 days apart. So it was just two big hits. One of them was a gum surgery, which whenever it's anything in the mouth, they give you a pretty strong antibiotic.
00:01:58
aquaomega
Mm hmm.
00:01:59
Sanna Averbuch
So we worked a lot on gut and that kind of introduced me to the whole world. And then I fell in love with it. And now my interest is more so towards dermatology, women's health, specifically acne, probably because of my own personal story. And then apart of that, yeah, I feel like it always your own personal struggle, you can really relate because people that do struggle with acne, they struggle.
00:02:13
aquaomega
Which is great.
00:02:21
aquaomega
Which is so nice, yeah. I feel like whenever I go to someone who i'm I'm seeking help from, it's so nice to know that they've been in my shoes. And they're like, hey, like I know what you're going through.
00:02:29
Alanna
Yeah.
00:02:30
aquaomega
This is what worked for me. And we're going to try that with you. And if it doesn't work for you, we're going to figure it out. Because it's nice that you you'll know. You'll know a lot of like the thoughts that are going on in their head that maybe a lot of other people won't relate to, which is kind of why I love NDs in general overall. Because they really do take that time to to get to know you.
00:02:47
Cameron Cogswell
It almost seems like ah all of them get into it for that reason.
00:02:48
Sanna Averbuch
Yeah. please
00:02:50
Cameron Cogswell
And, you know, from my side, too, I went to school for holistic nutrition. So not all that different from naturopathy. But, you know, we work with CCM. We're there. I know a lot of the students and it seems like, you know, 99 percent, I would say, go into it because they themselves had an issue or a family member did. Whereas, you know, the medical and not to knock that side. of I think there's time and place, but the medical is almost like the prestige is why they go into it. Whereas, you know, the natural, it's like, hey, I went through this. I want to learn about it so I can fix it for myself. And then the beauty of it, like how we use the word beauty is that you help other people with it. So I find that's like most people do that. So, um, yeah, really interesting.
00:03:33
Sanna Averbuch
Yeah.
00:03:33
aquaomega
So today's episode is called The Cycle of Beauty. um Maybe you can like explore that concept or or let us know a little bit um about what that is for our listeners who are just listening now.
00:03:45
Sanna Averbuch
you So the way I named my Instagram cycle beauty was more so to explain beauty is a cycle within because a lot of people think acne is a superficial concern but even the location of where the acne is the type of acne when it started all of it is a lot of the time what's going on inside your body is kind of telling you something. So the way I look at beauty is all interconnected, what we eat, what we feel, what we do on a day to day really does affect our beauty. And the concept of beauty is not just like that physical appearance, it's also inside how we feel what's going on even physiologically.
00:04:21
aquaomega
I like that.
00:04:22
Alanna
Yep.
00:04:22
Cameron Cogswell
And that being said, too do you prescribe to the idea that um emotions have an impact on you know our our health? um you know I always use the Louise A. example. I don't know if you're familiar with her stuff, but that um the root cause of some of these things, whether it's acne or something else, is an emotional um issue. do you Do you think that's true?
00:04:45
Sanna Averbuch
I do think there is truth to that. I will say that I find when you have a moment that you let go and let acne not take your life and dictate all the stress and the emotion, it shows to get better. I don't know if that's anecdotal, but I find when you, every day, people that do struggle with acne, they take photos, they run to the mirror first thing in the morning. Has it improved? Has it worsened? Is there a new lesion? So I think when you really like let it stop controlling your life, there is a lot of release and stress can impact acne in general. So I think that does have a part of it.
00:05:18
Cameron Cogswell
how How do you not let it control your life? Like, I mean, I agree with you 100%. And, you know, if I can say so, like, I had a skin issue for a very long time. I was born with cradle cap, which if anyone knows is like seborrheic dermatitis. So um it can come and go. And there's been periods where I had it in the same thing. I was almost obsessed with it and I jumped around from, okay, is it an emotional thing? You know, like I just mentioned, is it because I ate this? Is it because I ate this? Is it because I'm lacking? You jump around so much that, you know, I think your advice is is wonderful to not let it control every aspect of your life. But as you know, most people do. So how do you not let it control you?
00:06:00
Sanna Averbuch
Yeah, it took definitely it's not just like overnight. That's for sure. Um, one thing that I would do is allow myself to have time, remind it's temporary and also know that you're doing the things you can do. So that's why having my mom support, like we touched on diet, we touched on supplements. She explained to me why it's happening. I think a huge part of me was just not understanding why is this happening to me? And then with my background in dance, My face was such a worry. Like I cared so much about that beauty aspect and I suck at makeup.
00:06:35
Sanna Averbuch
So I was just like, I don't even know how to cover this. And I also don't want to have to wear makeup to cover up my face. So I really think understanding it is important and also knowing that you're doing the things you can do and it will get better.
00:06:42
aquaomega
Did you ever?
00:06:49
Sanna Averbuch
I think a lot of people don't believe it will get better. They think it's a forever thing, which is really sad that we think that way.
00:06:56
aquaomega
Which is fair. I remember as a kid having acting and just being like, well, this is my life. I better just get used to it. Did did you ever find the answer as to like why you? like To me as a kid, I always just felt like it was random. you know like Josh is a stud, and he doesn't have acne, which is good for him. And then, poor me, i you know i got I got acne. And it's just like, why is that? Is it random? Or is it diet? Is it stress? What is it?
00:07:19
Sanna Averbuch
So the why me, obviously, I still wonder, but it did allow me to pick my profession, fall in love with it, and also just understand people.
00:07:23
aquaomega
Mm-hmm.
00:07:28
Sanna Averbuch
Like now i when I have patients coming to me, I have a lot of patients that come to me with acne concerns, because they know I love to treat that. So I found my kind of focus and what I love. So that could be a positive out of it.
00:07:41
aquaomega
Absolutely.
00:07:41
Sanna Averbuch
And also just understanding all other conditions, because now I have empathy for just having something that you don't understand why it affecting your daily life. Like it can go beyond even acne, just someone that struggles with body dysmorphia. That also goes hand in hand with the beauty aspect and how we look. So I also treat patients that have history with eating disorders and working on weight loss with them. There definitely is that fine line. Don't want to trigger anything, but I also want to support their goals. So I think that just taught me how to treat a lot more than just acne.
00:08:14
Cameron Cogswell
yeah What do you say to people who I'm sure you've had this, that I've already tried everything? What's what's the kind of the first step? Because I'm sure some listeners feel that way. And like you said, whether it's acne, whether it's something else, they're going through something and they feel like they've tried everything already. And I suppose almost feel hopeless.
00:08:35
Sanna Averbuch
Yeah. Yeah. And definitely I can relate. I hear that a lot. I think a lot of the time patients come to naturopaths because they've tried everything. Um, I think a huge part of it, one is, did we try it long enough? Did we try the right therapeutic dose and did we try the right form for you? Cause I do think even with treating acne, there is so much out there and there's so much things that you could try, but if it's not geared towards why your acne is happening, It won't help, unfortunately, your acne. Someone has a hormonal aspect of acne versus a gut. If I'm giving them a vitamin like a B6, which helps hormonal acne, but they have gut issues, I don't think it will help because we're not targeting why the acne is coming.
00:09:18
Cameron Cogswell
would Would they inherently know the cause? Like you're saying, okay, maybe it's a hormonal, maybe it's you know a nutrient deficiency, maybe it's something else. um how How would someone know? Or do they need to come to someone like you who would you know you know look into it more?
00:09:35
Sanna Averbuch
I would love if they could kind of research on their own, but obviously at the same time, objective point of view is great because being your own doctor is difficult. They even say naturopaths should see other naturopaths because we can't be our own doctors. Um, so I like to always say like, when did it start? It's like investigation. Where is it?
00:09:53
aquaomega
Mm
00:09:53
Sanna Averbuch
What time of the month? Let's say it comes on. So if it's hormonal, I usually see it come two weeks before they have their first day of bleed. And even there's also other signs and symptoms. Like if there's PMS symptoms, like. breast tenderness, breast swelling, nausea, digestive concerns, the acne comes up. So usually there's other things that are kind of leaning me towards a hormonal picture and even cystic, like how they look. Like usually if they're here, like the T-bone.
00:10:17
aquaomega
-hmm
00:10:20
Sanna Averbuch
So all these things kind of add up to me going, okay, I think it's more so that hormonal picture. Whereas like there are other aspects of like even fungal acne that looks completely different than cystic hormonal acne. And then if I get into their lifestyle, they're probably a dancer. They're sweating. It's like itchy. They're keeping their wet sports bras on for the day. And that is where fungal acne just fester and you love it. So kind of getting into all aspects would help me or the person figure out where it's coming from.
00:10:48
Cameron Cogswell
Yeah, I love that. And I hope I'm not taking it too far. Of course, I know Calvin always has where he wants to go up with the conversation.
00:10:54
aquaomega
Hey.
00:10:54
Cameron Cogswell
But I think if people are listening to that, like, as i'm I'm hearing that, that those are like little nuggets of gold. I mean, a lot of the times that people on the podcast don't realize how good the information is.
00:11:01
aquaomega
Absolutely.
00:11:02
Alanna
Is it?
00:11:05
Cameron Cogswell
Could you go over some of those? If it's a T, it's this type of, you know, maybe give someone because someone listening might be like, oh, my God, that's that's what I have.
00:11:13
Sanna Averbuch
yeah for sure and obviously it's not like the one thing i find with acne it's not by the book because stress even though people say stress is on the forehead i have seen stress acne come up everywhere and anywhere so i will say hormonal that is pretty common like t-bone, cheek, cystic, fungal can also be on like the chest, the neck, the back and they're more so little ones because it's caused by ace melasia it's not caused by p-acne which is the bacteria that we often see like
00:11:19
Cameron Cogswell
Of course.
00:11:43
Sanna Averbuch
all those topicals trying to treat that bacteria. And then digestion I find is a lot on the cheek. There's a lot of things.
00:11:50
aquaomega
That's me.
00:11:53
Cameron Cogswell
No, this is really this is gold. This this is the soft for sure.
00:11:55
aquaomega
Yeah.
00:11:56
Alanna
Yeah.
00:11:56
Cameron Cogswell
Yeah
00:11:57
Sanna Averbuch
Thank you. But I find with digestion, the other thing that's important, it's not like if you eat it now in the next five hours, the acne will come. So you have to be a bit kind of keeping up with what did you eat? What could that trigger be? There are common triggers for acne. But everyone is different. Some people have food sensitivities and that's where gut stuff come in. And if there's any history with like gut dysbiosis, which was my history with the antibiotic use, like it totally destroyed my gut, which is okay. We picked it up. My mom gave me some like strong probiotics, other supportives, and that helped her punish my gut, but it takes time. And the thing with acne is consistency and being patient, which is hard when it comes to lesions, because if you see one new one, you're like, oh, this treatment's not working.
00:12:43
Sanna Averbuch
But if you look at the frequency of how many are coming, it is working.
00:12:47
aquaomega
Of
00:12:47
Sanna Averbuch
It's just putting time to really show no lesions.
00:12:51
Alanna
I think a lot of people want like a quick fix too.
00:12:54
aquaomega
course.
00:12:54
Alanna
And like I know a lot of my friends went on like Accutane, let's say. And actually my one friend, she had like extremely clear skin, but she had a lot of like back acne. So the doctor just put her on Accutane right away. And her face like broke out really, really, really bad. And like it really ah damaged her self-confidence and she was just like what the heck like I've always had extremely clear skin except for on my back and then now it's literally everywhere and she was on Accutane for I don't know at least a year I feel like now her skin's perfectly fine but then I've also heard of ah other people go on Accutane and then it comes back and it comes back and obviously we know like Accutane can have other effects on the body as well so
00:13:42
Sanna Averbuch
Yeah, I definitely seen a lot of the time when we were talking about that that that like last resource, I have a lot of patients coming and going, I don't want to get an Accutane, what can we do instead of Accutane?
00:13:43
Alanna
Yeah.
00:13:53
Sanna Averbuch
And I find patient like Accutane, I could do like a natural derivative like a vitamin A, because vitamin A will help reduce sebum production. So I like that if the patient actually is showing me that overproduction of sebum, that cystic because if they have that kind of acne, then vitamin A will help. But if they have those small glands and it's not cystic and painful, I don't see vitamin A helping as much, especially because if they have a dry skin tendency, it really dries the body just like Accutane does. At least not at such a big hit on the liver, but I do have a lot of patients coming and wanting my opinion on Accutane, and I always give them the option of vitamin A. Look, we can try this. We can see if this helps you.
00:14:38
aquaomega
Are there any like options or products or solutions that drive you nuts because you just know they don't help?
00:14:45
Sanna Averbuch
That's a good question.
00:14:45
aquaomega
She's laughing. For everyone who's listening, she's laughing.
00:14:48
Sanna Averbuch
and from Um, that's a good question. I will say there's a lot out there that have just like, if you read it, it's like the best for poor this and that. And then if you read the back, it has so much chemicals and just like fragrance and clogging factors that will just do the opposite. So one thing that I actually really like is there is a website called clear STEM and they have
00:15:13
Alanna
Yes.
00:15:14
Sanna Averbuch
Yeah, they have a really helpful tool that's called the poor clogging checklist. And I tell a lot of my patients just like as a basic start to what you have, put it in there, you copy paste your ingredients. And it will say you have poor clogging ingredients or you don't. And it's a really quick way to go, okay, this one just wasn't helping you.
00:15:32
aquaomega
Okay. Mm hmm.
00:15:33
Alanna
Well, how confusing is it?
00:15:34
Sanna Averbuch
Yeah.
00:15:34
Alanna
You go into Shoppers Drug Mart and there's like two different aisles filled with skincare and you're like, where do I even start? Like it's so overwhelming sometimes.
00:15:43
Sanna Averbuch
Yeah.
00:15:44
Alanna
And there's so many, I don't know, like I feel like there's so much different information online, on TikTok, everywhere being like, okay, you need a 10 step skincare routine. No, you should just be using Dove Soap. Like there's so, oh, there's so many like different opinions on everything. So I think going to a, ND would be like youre your best bet and getting to the root cause of it.
00:16:06
Sanna Averbuch
I also find for topical stuff like estheticians, dermatologists, they're great to work with. I think it's kind of great for an acne patients to have all the support, like whether it's having the facials, having the topicals. The topicals could be from a dermatologist or something that I recommend. It would change depending on the type of acne I see. But really with acne, I find topicals is one part, but inside work is bret and
00:16:32
aquaomega
Yeah. Topicals to me feel like a band-aid. Like it's like, oh yeah, I might like cover it up or help it go away, but it's not going to go away forever or be a long-term solution.
00:16:42
Sanna Averbuch
yeah
00:16:42
aquaomega
So what kind of like changes can can somebody make in their, whether it's diet or physical activity that can have like more long-term solutions to acne?
00:16:51
Sanna Averbuch
um The main thing I will say before getting into diet, I never want to kind of fully restrict. I don't like to do that with the history of seeing the eating disorders and how much trauma and sugar that can be. But I will say with research, dairy has been shown to kind of increase that seedling production. So dairy is one I would say if we can kind of lower, reduce and kind of put in other things that they feel gives them the same kind of joy and taste and they enjoy it.
00:17:18
Alanna
Bye.
00:17:19
Sanna Averbuch
That's one big one.
00:17:20
aquaomega
Uh
00:17:21
Sanna Averbuch
Sugar as well. Sugar is one more so refined sugar rather than like the natural fruit sugar, enjoy that aspect of sugar.
00:17:23
aquaomega
huh.
00:17:30
Sanna Averbuch
Um, and then protein, I find people don't eat enough protein and proteins like the building block of skin as well. Um, I always tell people that if we're trying to hit our goal for protein on the daily, you take your weight in kilogram times one gram. So that's how many grams need to be. So let's say I have 70, um, kilo kilograms. I want 70 grams of protein that day.
00:17:54
aquaomega
That's a lot. That's a lot of protein.
00:17:54
Sanna Averbuch
Yeah.
00:17:55
aquaomega
That's a lot more than I imagined. I thought I was good with my one protein shake with 20 grams and I could call it a day.
00:17:57
Sanna Averbuch
Okay.
00:18:01
Sanna Averbuch
I know. So to hit, to not hit deficiency, you would take your weight in kilogram times 0.8. So that would be a little bit less, but it's still, I would say like more than people think. Um, and the way, yeah.
00:18:13
aquaomega
I would agree with that.
00:18:14
Sanna Averbuch
And the way I try to say is if you're having a meal in that meal, think where is my protein source here? And you'll be full for longer and your body will be kind of feeling better on that higher amount of protein. Cause if we're not, we are tired. Our skin needs more and there's so many other effects with low protein.
00:18:34
Cameron Cogswell
You know, it's interesting because from everything you're saying, it seems like there's almost two groups of people or or where people fall. And I want to know what percentage you see in your practice or or whatever, but. OK, so there's people who are literally not doing something, not getting enough protein, don't have enough vitamin A, and then there's other people who are doing too much of something, putting too much makeup or or things that clog their pores. So what percentage of people um correct their acne by taking something away and what percentage correct it by adding something in?
00:19:09
Sanna Averbuch
That's a really good question.
00:19:11
Sanna Averbuch
I would, yeah, I would say I've seen a lot with acne. They come in and they are doing the extreme. They are trying everything. But a lot of the time those things I say are not that extreme. We don't need to do those things. Like I have a few patients asking like, should I change my pillowcase every night? And I'm like, that is fine with me, but that is not my like number one for you. And I don't want them to stress about changing their pillowcase every night.
00:19:11
Alanna
Yeah.
00:19:37
aquaomega
Mmm.
00:19:38
Sanna Averbuch
That's not something that we should be worried about. There's so much more in it. And I go, why don't we focus on in the morning? We have some protein. That is like where I really want it. And if they're eating, if I'm seeing there's cheese, milk, like all that throughout the day, and they're telling me their stomach is hurting. I'm thinking, okay, maybe we pull a bit out. Let's not have cheese at breakfast. How do you feel after breakfast? And kind of work one on one with that. But I find with acne, I see a lot of people trying to do so much more than they need to.
00:20:06
aquaomega
I like how you mentioned, how do you feel after it, right? Cause it's almost, you know, like, like you mentioned before a little bit, beauty isn't just. skin deep, right? Like it's going to change how you feel and how it is like a mental thing. and And it does seem to snowball oftentimes, right? Like maybe you're waking up and you are having like a good skin day and and then you're feeling good and your energy levels are up. So a lot of the things that you're you're saying here, it's not just going to clear your skin, but it feels like it's going to help you improve your your overall health and wellness. um So how how do those like really connect to one another, like the mental side and the physical side?
00:20:44
Sanna Averbuch
They are definitely completely connected. The part of acne, it's an inflammatory skin conditions, all these food things that I'm trying to change and alter, trying to increase the anti-inflammatory, reduce the inflammatory foods, which overall will help your well-being, help longevit longevity as well. And in general, with energy, Like you said, a lot of people put a lot of their energy on how they look.
00:21:07
Alanna
Thank you.
00:21:07
Sanna Averbuch
So they look in the mirror and they're like, oh, it's a good day. I'm going to have a good day now. But there is so much more to that. And I always look into any sort of other things that can worsen energy well-being. So looking at blood work is something I like to do. Any deficiency with periods, often if people have heavy and flow, I really want to look at the iron, the ferritin, which is a store of iron. Where are they at? Because if that is low, that can even affect the acne, but also if that is low, Energy is low and increased risk of just feeling down, torn as a breath, can't do regular daily things that they want to do, but they lack the energy.
00:21:44
aquaomega
Does it go both ways too? Like we've mentioned like, Oh yeah, it's like, I look good. So now I feel good, but can you like feel good and then have that affect your outward appearance as well? Like, can you just push through and be like, I'm going to have a good day. I don't care that I'm breaking out. And then can that also help with, with the, um, the physical side too?
00:22:03
Sanna Averbuch
I would say it's easier said than done for a lot of people to say, you know what, I'm going to have a good day, but it's doing little habits that, you know, make you feel good.
00:22:05
aquaomega
I would agree. Mm-hmm.
00:22:11
Sanna Averbuch
So some people feel better here to get up in the morning and they're going to have a 10 minute walk, listen to podcasts or walk in the nature, something that makes them feel good. I find often if you get up and have like that right footstep forward, whether some people like to drink lemon water in the morning, anything that is for them, I think those small habits will let you feel like you're really taking control of your life. And I think that's a huge part of it with acne because you feel like it's out of control of your own hands. Right.
00:22:38
aquaomega
Yeah, I like that. did Did you manage to do that a lot in your dance career or what should wish should I call it, your dance chapter or your dance career yet because do you mentioned that you were you taught dance and you did maybe maybe i'll let you tell the audience a little bit about your your dance background i'm sure you know it better than i do
00:22:49
Sanna Averbuch
no ah give Yeah.
00:22:50
Alanna
Thank
00:22:53
Sanna Averbuch
Yeah.
00:22:58
Alanna
you.
00:22:58
Sanna Averbuch
i would say So I started dancing at age four. I think a lot of people started dancing quite young. It was just, I was dancing in my family room and my parents were like, Hey, this girl likes to be on her tippy toes. We'll throw her into the ballet. I started with ballet and the classic jazz, hip hop, acro. They kind of come all together. Often when you're little, they put you in all the classes. And then when I was 10, I started figure skating and they put me in figure skating and they said, her hands are very stiff. go into Latin and ballroom dancing because that will really help kind of like that fluidity with the hands.
00:23:33
Sanna Averbuch
And I started it. I kind of skyrocketed in it. That was definitely more of my talents than all the other things I did from age four. And I loved it.
00:23:41
aquaomega
Yeah.
00:23:42
Sanna Averbuch
So ballroom in Latin was my life. In high school, I got a pretty special adjustment to my schedule on top of being in the dance program. I also got to leave early to go train at my studio. So I dance basically from like three o'clock to 10 at night. And you know, Anna, we're saying like, you eat your dinners there. You do your homework there. They are basically like your second family.
00:24:03
aquaomega
Three o'clock till 10 at night. Did I hear that right? i mean
00:24:07
Sanna Averbuch
You just.
00:24:07
aquaomega
so Seven hours a day or how many days a week are you doing? That's that's unreal. That's a full-time job.
00:24:15
Alanna
Bye! Have this week.
00:24:17
Sanna Averbuch
We're a number of my Saturdays, I'd get there for like one o'clock and we'd finish at seven. And it'd be like 7.30, sometimes they keep you longer. If you're not training hard enough, they want you to do one last hit. And then I'd run home, try to have a normal life at like 8.30, try to meet up with friends. I'd be late to every hangout. Everyone would know why. But my life was definitely different in high school. Don't regret it. I loved it. At age 15, I was like traveling the world with like older dancers. I experienced things I never thought I would. I've seen countries from a dance studio, so I need to go back to them and actually explore the countries.
00:24:52
Sanna Averbuch
But yeah, it was super fun and that aspect I loved but the dance aspect that I didn't love was just like the unrealistic views of body, skin, everything.
00:24:52
aquaomega
Right.
00:25:05
aquaomega
Right.
00:25:07
Sanna Averbuch
So I remember there was every Tuesday there was fat testing and that was super triggering for a lot of people.
00:25:13
aquaomega
So what is fat testing? How do how do they measure that?
00:25:16
Sanna Averbuch
They pinched, I remember the outside of her thigh with the device. Who knows how accurate it even was. All I know is it was really triggering.
00:25:22
aquaomega
Yeah, pseudoscience.
00:25:24
Sanna Averbuch
Yeah.
00:25:25
aquaomega
At what age do they do they start this?
00:25:27
Sanna Averbuch
I was 16. So, but I was.
00:25:29
Alanna
Wow.
00:25:32
Sanna Averbuch
Yeah. And I remember there were coaches kind of pointly pointing fingers.
00:25:33
Alanna
Wow.
00:25:37
Sanna Averbuch
This person needs to lose weight. You need to get on this diet. And I remember their diet was terrible before the dance competition. I would think I'd lose so much energy. I wouldn't even be able to put all my energy in the dance routine. The other part of it with our style is you dance with a partner and you want to look smaller than the male partner. So my partner was a smaller frame. And I remember I always had to kind of keep that smaller frame. So I couldn't lift weights a certain way. I couldn't eat a certain way. So that was something a part of it.
00:26:08
Sanna Averbuch
Thankfully, I had my mom. My mom is very much like, we are going to make sure you're healthy on your own demand, not comparing to somebody else. But I remember there was girls at my studio. I would hear, go to barf at the bathroom or not eat lunch. And it was crazy now looking back at age 16, I was exposed to all these things.
00:26:24
aquaomega
Mm hmm. That's wild. Would the coaches know about the bulimia? I mean, let's call it what it is, right? Like, do they know what was going on? They do. Do they encourage it? Do they turn a blind eye or or how do they, do they talk to the parents about it? Like what's their responsibility in this?
00:26:39
Sanna Averbuch
ah part of me thinks either they just didn't see it or didn't want to see it.
00:26:44
aquaomega
Mm-hmm.
00:26:45
Sanna Averbuch
I remember I was in Moscow and I went to the bathroom with one of my competitors or friends and I heard her in the stall and I kind of went back to the table and I told my mom and I was like I don't know what I heard but I think I heard this and I was like do I have to tell her mom and then she was like you don't have to right now
00:26:45
Cameron Cogswell
Good luck.
00:27:06
Sanna Averbuch
But maybe when we get back, you should. And then I tried to talk to her about it before going and kind of ruining her relationship with her mother and she kind of denied it.
00:27:12
aquaomega
sir
00:27:13
Sanna Averbuch
And, you know, sometimes that's when I would say, like, dancers really do need psychologists because though at that point I couldn't, like, I was not trained at that point what to do.
00:27:25
aquaomega
Mmhmm.
00:27:25
Cameron Cogswell
Yeah, that's that's interesting because you know there's There's always like two sides and two ways to look at and you know if you don't take offense to things then you're open to looking at both sides and I say that because from what it sounds like they're just looking for the appearance of of health or beauty without actually ah Fostering it and I'll say because I worked for the women's National Hockey League for a little while because there is truth that
00:27:48
Cameron Cogswell
If you are, let's say, a little thinner or or more athletic or you're healthy, you will perform better. I see that side of it. But the Women's National Hockey League took the steps to hire me, a nutritionist, to give seminars, to teach them the right way to do it because, yes, if we objectively look at it,
00:28:00
Sanna Averbuch
Thanks.
00:28:08
Cameron Cogswell
someone who's 20 pounds heavier than someone else might not skate as fast. So like, okay, there there is some utility to this, but at least they're fostering the right way to do it. And it sounds like for you, it was just like, as long as we have the appearance of it, we'll turn a blind eye to how you're achieving it. Is that that the way it was?
00:28:26
Sanna Averbuch
It was very much I feel like coaches didn't realize the goal that they were trying to get. It could be gotten, but unhealthy. And I remember at a dance competition, we finished, everyone's celebrating, and two girls went out and they got McDonald's. And those were the two the coaches were always on top of to lose weight. And I remember when they came back, the coach was so angry that they got McDonald's. And I remember being like, this is not normal. Like we just burned off probably thousands of calories because
00:28:55
aquaomega
Mmhmm.
00:28:56
Sanna Averbuch
At our competition, it's not just like one dance. It's basically all of the couples are on the dance floor at the same time and the judges are around the dance floor. And whether it's like six or 12 couples on the floor, you dance back to back five dances. And each dance is about like two minutes. So you're really training that stamina. So you have to practice at the studio dancing those five. And then when you get on the dance floor, dance those five. That's like at least a thousand calories if I wore a Fitbit back then. yeah
00:29:26
Cameron Cogswell
but so they're So they're against the McDonald's, but did they provide any resources to say, hey, this is what you should be eating, or hey, we're going to bring in the nutritionist to help? Or they're just kind of, no, you shouldn't eat that and find find your own way.
00:29:38
Sanna Averbuch
Yeah. I remember their plan. You know what? I never, I tried to never look at their plan to affect me.
00:29:42
aquaomega
Mm
00:29:45
Sanna Averbuch
Thankfully I was never given a strict plan, but I remember they were like, there's so much celery in this plan.
00:29:45
aquaomega
hmm.
00:29:51
Sanna Averbuch
And I'm like, celery is water. That's not, how are they going to dance with it?
00:29:54
aquaomega
nothing
00:29:57
Sanna Averbuch
Yeah.
00:29:58
Cameron Cogswell
Yeah, i I find that in in a lot of this stuff because I mean, your story is not uncommon, right? I mean, we see this in, it tends to be the younger ah ages where they don't have the resources to afford it. And then you have a coach who may be a wonderful dance coach, but they're not a nutritionist, but they're trying to fill that role too. And so, I mean, there's always that sort of, you don't really blame the coach because they're uneducated.
00:30:16
Sanna Averbuch
Yeah.
00:30:18
aquaomega
It's nothing.
00:30:22
Cameron Cogswell
but then they shouldn't be trying to educate the team as well. So, um you know, it would be nice to see, and I guess maybe this is a commentary more than a question, but it'd be nice to see if there were some resources into that because, I mean, part of athletic performance, whether it's dance or a sport is being healthy, you know, um and they just don't have the resources to maybe afford to hire someone to do that. But then they're trying to take that role on and obviously they're they're not educated to do it.
00:30:46
Sanna Averbuch
For sure, I wish studios had nutritionists, naturopaths, just the whole team to support them. And I think that goes to a lot of other sports like gymnastics. All these sports that have art with sport, that is where the issue I think really lies. Because when it comes to other sports, it's so much more objective. They scored the goal moving on. Whereas here, there is so much more how they look.
00:31:06
aquaomega
Mm-hmm
00:31:08
Alanna
Yep.
00:31:09
Sanna Averbuch
I remember when my dance partner got a haircut and it wasn't the best haircut. my coach was so angry and she's like putting so much emphasis that this could make us lose and I'm like the way we look is having like 50 percent of the impact here.
00:31:25
aquaomega
That's crazy and then in hockey they're encouraged to like don't shave your face in November get the best mullet So you have the best flow like and it really makes no difference
00:31:28
Cameron Cogswell
Yeah, yeah
00:31:29
Sanna Averbuch
think
00:31:32
Sanna Averbuch
yeah
00:31:32
Cameron Cogswell
yeah the
00:31:33
Alanna
Well, when I had
00:31:33
Cameron Cogswell
yeah you can't shave doing playoffs.
00:31:36
Alanna
When I had my knee surgery, I had to like tape my knee afterwards with a KT tape, right? And I literally had to put foundation that matched my leg, like skin color, on the tape to make it match. I was like, oh my gosh, it's a little bit much.
00:31:50
aquaomega
All
00:31:51
Alanna
All of our makeup had to be the exact same. like Five-year-olds literally had to wear these insane fake eyelashes, bright red lipstick, pounds and pounds of foundation. talk about why we all had acne. like You know, it's crazy.
00:32:09
Cameron Cogswell
Yeah. Can you talk about um maybe the mental strength that um you can develop?
00:32:14
aquaomega
right.
00:32:15
Cameron Cogswell
Because I don't think this is going to stop. I mean, like I said, your story is not uncommon. When I was younger, I played soccer um and I have a story similar to you. I got injured and I started to almost hate it and hate the pressures. And then I almost, I just never wanted to play again, which is sort of unhealthy. But I remember a time where my coach picked on me for being a little overweight and I was never overweight, but I wasn't Razor thin either but i just you know and again i i suppose it's different personalities but if everyone could look at it as hey.
00:32:47
Cameron Cogswell
Let me just be strong about this and and use it as a motivation whether he's right or wrong isn't isn't the point is how do i not let this affect my mental state i didn't i just okay.
00:32:52
Sanna Averbuch
Thank
00:32:57
Cameron Cogswell
I was almost angry. I was like, okay, well, then I'm going to get in good shape. And I used it to motivate myself.
00:33:01
Sanna Averbuch
you.
00:33:02
Cameron Cogswell
And it turned out for the best because I did get in better shape and then I was more confident and all those things were good. But a lot of people hear that and it defeats them. I mean, especially if it's coming from someone that you look up to. So how do you find that you can, you know, I suppose this is a tough question, but the mental strength to carry on or to better yourself in some of those situations?
00:33:24
Sanna Averbuch
I feel like there's two aspects. One, I was really lucky to have a support system leaning on them because I find when you hear from one end, what you're doing is not good. You need to lose weight or you need to change this. When you come home to support system kind of saying, but look how amazing you are at dance. Look at this. Look what you have accomplished. Like there's so much more to it, right? So the support system is one part of it. And then the other is just kind of believing in yourself, which is, very hard. A lot of people, we are so hard on ourselves. We're the hardest critics on ourselves and something I'm still working on in my new career because we always can better ourselves, but to a degree and to a healthy degree. And I kind of find all the changes that you make, make sure they also, one, they feel right for you and two, they help more than just that like physical aspect. So like we were talking about earlier, that protein increase, that dairy
00:34:15
Sanna Averbuch
or those lifestyle changes that will help so much more in your life rather than just that one thing you're trying to fix.
00:34:22
aquaomega
Mm hmm.
00:34:23
Alanna
I think separating yourself from your sport as well, like knowing that you are the person outside of the sport and not only the dancer or the soccer player, the hockey player, and you need to really like foster connections outside as well. Because the reality of it, it's not forever you know for most people, unless you're going professional.
00:34:39
aquaomega
Mm hmm.
00:34:43
aquaomega
Yeah, I like that. So that way you don't suffer an injury and then just feel like all your self worth is now totally gone, right? Like you're, you're still a person outside of it.
00:34:43
Sanna Averbuch
so
00:34:50
Alanna
Yeah.
00:34:52
aquaomega
I like that.
00:34:53
Sanna Averbuch
Looking back now, I thought dance is the world. And it's so funny because no one knows who I was. No one knows that dance world. Like you think that is the world. And then when I'm done it, no one talks about it, which just kind of put reality into perspective for me. I remember when we got me and my partner, we got first in Canada and I was so excited. Now looking back, I was like 2016. Of course that was such a milestone, but there's so much more to life.
00:35:20
aquaomega
Yeah.
00:35:21
Sanna Averbuch
than that world, which is exactly what you said. take you Take a step out of it and it kind of feels nice to say there's so much more to me than that.
00:35:29
aquaomega
Yeah, it's this really amazing cool thing you did, but that's not all all you are.
00:35:34
Sanna Averbuch
and to me
00:35:34
Alanna
And the awards, like, don't define you. Like, if you get high gold in a competition, it's not the end of the world. High gold is, like, pretty low. And I mean, I have gotten high gold, and I would literally, like, run off stage crying because I thought that, like, that defined me. And, like, that was what I was worth. And, you know, you have to be really self-aware.
00:35:52
Sanna Averbuch
you
00:35:54
Alanna
And like I said, like, take yourself out of it at the end of the day.
00:35:57
Cameron Cogswell
I think old town's good.
00:35:58
Sanna Averbuch
It's funny because I have different award kind of measures.
00:36:01
Cameron Cogswell
just
00:36:03
Sanna Averbuch
So I'm like, the word gold is it? It sounds like it has to be gold.
00:36:07
Alanna
Well, it was like, it was ah usually like low bronze, high bronze, low silver, high silver, high gold, so on and so forth. And then the the top was like diamond, ultimate diamond, platinum, all those.
00:36:17
aquaomega
Well, yeah, what's higher?
00:36:21
aquaomega
Okay.
00:36:22
Alanna
Yeah. There's so many different ah rankings and they do like depend on the competition as well.
00:36:23
aquaomega
Yeah.
00:36:28
Alanna
um But typically like high gold would be like on the lower end.
00:36:32
aquaomega
Oh, okay. How about that? in
00:36:35
Cameron Cogswell
but
00:36:35
Alanna
crazy like the whole thing yeah
00:36:40
aquaomega
Now that you're no longer in in the dance world, do you still feel like a lot of those habits that you picked up as like you know a teenager and into your young ah adult life have stuck with you?
00:36:51
Sanna Averbuch
I would say now that it's been eight years since then, I have gotten better. I just the acne itself. Like if I get a lesion, I don't have the same reaction as I did eight years ago.
00:37:02
aquaomega
Mm-hmm.
00:37:02
Sanna Averbuch
Um, and I find like me and Atlanta were saying prior this podcast that even when you finish dance, that was your workout.
00:37:02
Alanna
It's crazy. Honestly, the whole thing. Yeah.
00:37:10
Sanna Averbuch
And then when you get out of it, you just don't even know how to move.
00:37:12
aquaomega
Mm hmm.
00:37:14
Sanna Averbuch
You're like, that was the way I kind of got that exercise in. So I think now my habits have changed towards like, how will I get my movement in and it not be dance. So that was things that I had to switch up. And the way I kind of did it was what makes me feel good. Cause I used to go to the gym, lift weights, and I liked that, but I found I did that a lot for that. Again, the superficial, how will I look doing this strength training? You'll make me look good. Whereas now I've kind of learned Pilates is the way I feel good. And it kind of gives me what I need to get my day on.
00:37:45
Sanna Averbuch
And I get that exercise that I need for the health benefits. I don't know if that kind of answers your question.
00:37:48
Cameron Cogswell
Well, you know, you touched on so it just says something really cool there that I'd heard a long time ago and it really stuck with me is, you know, you give up, you give up or it's taken away from whatever it is, something positive in your life. Let's say dance. And then you have a void. Or some people it's like, hey, you broke up with your girlfriend or boyfriend. And now every Tuesday you used to watch this TV show together from seven to eight. Now seven o'clock comes on Tuesday and you have a void there. What you fill it with is so important. And I've heard that this is actually how addictions begin with people because they tend to not fill it with something positive because they're missing something. I'll fill it with food. I'll fill it with this. um Do you find that you see that?
00:38:26
Cameron Cogswell
that addictions or things that that play out in the in the beauty side of it or or in your practice.
00:38:32
Sanna Averbuch
Yeah, that is definitely the void is huge kind of shifting your attention to something positive and beneficial towards you, because it's really easy to kind of fall down the tracks and go towards something that maybe seems like a quick fix makes you feel good in the moment. Definitely with history of eating disorder patients, I do see if anything triggers them. For them, it's much easier to kind of fall back to the general habits, because habits are the hardest things to change. So there is a site that I like an app called on site, and you can like you can put any habits that you want and you kind of check off when you did it.
00:39:07
Sanna Averbuch
It's for different personalities. If I have a patient that's quite anxious and if they don't get the checklist and makes them even more anxious, I wouldn't recommend that. But people that feel good, like they have these habits that they want to get and they want that little push and I'm not around, I find that app is really helpful because it's your own push.
00:39:16
Alanna
Yeah.
00:39:25
Sanna Averbuch
You're keeping yourself accountable.
00:39:26
aquaomega
yeah what's What's like an example of like a healthy habit someone should try and establish?
00:39:27
Sanna Averbuch
and you know
00:39:31
Sanna Averbuch
So exercise or walking, so if you wanna do walking 20 minutes. Sometimes that 10K a day is overwhelming, especially with that long nine to five work. If you're a mom, if you're a dad, you're a busy person, and even if it's just 20 minutes, whether it's before or after work, at lunch, that's a habit that I like to recommend.
00:39:43
aquaomega
Mmhmm. Mmhmm.
00:39:52
aquaomega
I like it, yeah.
00:39:52
Sanna Averbuch
Water, two liters a day of water. If they're drinking less than one, I'm not gonna say two liters, so I'm gonna say one liter for them, so always kind of
00:40:01
aquaomega
Make it attainable, yeah.
00:40:02
Alanna
Yeah, that makes sense.
00:40:04
aquaomega
That's good. And then how long till it becomes a habit? I've always wondered, how many times do you have to drink your liter of water or do your 20 minute walk until you're like, hey, this is now easy?
00:40:12
Sanna Averbuch
ivan I heard sometimes people say 24 to 30 days but everyone's different because I remember reading something about um people that nail bite and that anxiety with nail biting if they don't for 24 to 30 days that habit it kind of becomes the new them and they wouldn't
00:40:17
aquaomega
OK.
00:40:30
Sanna Averbuch
Not sure if that is actually true because things can trigger anxiety and then they would do it, but they do say like about a month and then that kind of something they fall into and they are easier able to jump back on the wagon if they fall off.
00:40:42
aquaomega
Yeah, I like that.
00:40:42
aquaomega
And I feel like after 30 days, then that's when you can be like, okay, now two liters of water, or then let's do 10K, or maybe not still 10K, but let's up it to 35 minutes, right? like And it becomes easier baby steps.
00:40:42
Alanna
Yeah.
00:40:52
Sanna Averbuch
That's something with a goal. Yeah, baby steps is huge, because if I give a huge goal and they don't attain it, one, they don't want to tell me sometimes, and two, they will be upset that they don't. So I don't want that to come. So I always say the smallest steps, and I let them kind of decide. So when we say, OK, so what's a realistic goal for getting 20 minutes a day? If it's not a day, let's do 20 minutes every other day. What did they find realistic for them? And then we develop that together, because I think that's huge, kind of figuring out what works for them in their busy life.
00:41:22
aquaomega
I think that's great. um so i So I know you're you're still in your last year, but for those who maybe listen to this podcast and and feel like it really resonated with them, maybe it was the acting or the dance background or any kind of you know just routine making habits that that you recommended, what what's the best way for someone to get a hold of you or follow your story and and get in touch afterwards?
00:41:42
Sanna Averbuch
I would say my Instagram, which is cycle of beauty. I've been posting a little bit less on there with the school being crazy, but on there I kind of like to chat about acne and beauty within really.
00:41:49
aquaomega
Fair.
00:41:54
aquaomega
OK, I'll be sure to have that in the link of our descriptions. And I want to thank you again and Cameron and Alana, as always, for being on the show. I want to thank you so much for being on the show. It was really great. I feel like I learned a lot. um I almost wanted to keep going. I want to learn more about dance. Like I mentioned earlier in the pre-show that I have a daughter who's like kind of getting into competitive gymnastics. And it's like, what can I do as a parent? Maybe that's something we could talk about in the future if you're into it.
00:42:18
Sanna Averbuch
I would definitely be into that. That would be great.
00:42:20
aquaomega
Okay. Awesome. so um Okay. So we're going to get you for season three.
00:42:22
Sanna Averbuch
Thank you
00:42:23
aquaomega
Thanks again, Santa. It was wonderful having you on the show.
00:42:26
Sanna Averbuch
so much for having me.