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Connecting the Contaminated Land Community with guest Michael Seller
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Michael Seller is the Membership Development Manager at the Australasian Land & Groundwater Association (ALGA), the leading industry body representing professionals working in contaminated land and groundwater management across Australia and New Zealand.
In his role, Michael leads initiatives to grow and support ALGA’s member community, connecting practitioners, regulators, consultants, scientists and industry partners to strengthen collaboration and promote best practice across the sector.
Through his work at ALGA, Michael plays a key role in supporting those working in contaminated land management by helping build strong professional networks, improving access to training and industry guidance, and fostering collaboration across government, consulting and industry. His work helps ensure practitioners stay informed, connected and supported in a rapidly evolving regulatory and technical landscape.
In this episode, Shonelle speaks with Michael Seller from the Australian Land and Groundwater Association (ALGA) about the challenges facing contaminated land practitioners in local government and the importance of building stronger professional networks across the sector. Michael reflects on what he hears from councils across Australia, noting that many officers managing contaminated land are also responsible for a wide range of other functions, from planning to environmental health, and are often stepping into contamination work without dedicated resources or specialist teams.
The conversation explores how professional networks can help address this reality. Michael discusses how practitioners can connect across government, consulting, and industry, and highlights the value of special interest groups, events, and peer forums that allow officers to share experiences, troubleshoot challenges, and support one another in what can sometimes feel like an isolated role within councils.
Michael also touches on the importance of training, capability building, and leadership support for council members. From professional development pathways like CEnvP certification to knowledge-sharing events and online resources, he explains how strengthening capability across the sector ultimately helps councils manage contaminated land risks more effectively and engage confidently with stakeholders and communities.
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Are you a local NSW council member looking for more resources like this?
You are invited to join the Local Government NSW Contaminated Land Network!
Local Government NSW (LGNSW) hosts a free, online network for council staff on the topic of contaminated land. The network includes an online forum for collaboration, information sharing and announcements about contaminated land regulation, guidance and training opportunities. Monthly meetings are held on themes that were set by the network participants, with presentations from regulators, technical experts, and case studies by councils.
Since the contaminated land network commenced in December 2023, more than 50% of NSW councils have joined, with over 200 participants. Feedback shows that councils are benefitting greatly from the network meetings and discussion on the platform, and we are pleased to invite you to join us.
To join the network, please use this link: https://lgsa.wufoo.com/forms/w1rf0os910rxyl6/
We hope to see you in the network soon!
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Transcript
Introduction and Purpose
00:00:01
Speaker
Welcome to Contamination Station, safer environment together, a New South Wales EPA funded podcast. In these episodes, you'll hear from those working to implement contaminated land policies and procedures at the local level by sharing our stories, frustrations, wins and
Meet Michael Seller from ALGA
00:00:19
Speaker
losses. Our aim is for this podcast to become a repository of information that will support those currently working to combat contaminated land and for those yet to come.
00:00:30
Speaker
In today's episode, I'm joined by Michael Seller. Michael is the membership development manager at the Australian Land and Groundwater Association, or HOGA, as we like to call it in the industry.
00:00:41
Speaker
ALGA is the peak industry body representing professionals working in contaminated land and groundwater management across Australia and New Zealand. In his role, Michael leads initiatives to grow and support ALGA's member community, connecting practitioners, regulators, consultants, scientists, and industry partners to strengthen collaboration and promote best practice across the sector.
ALGA's Role and Challenges
00:01:00
Speaker
Through his work at ALGA, Michael plays a key role in supporting those working contaminated land management by helping build strong professional networks, improving access to training and industry guidance and fostering collaboration across government, consulting and industry.
00:01:15
Speaker
His work helps ensure practitioners stay informed, connected and supported in a rapidly evolving rick a and technical landscape. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and the guest as individuals and do not necessarily reflect those of the New South Wales EPA or any other organisation.
Local Government and ALGA Support
00:01:37
Speaker
Hi Michael, how are you going today? Chanel, great to be here, thank you. No worries, it's great to have you and welcome to this episode of Contamination Station. It's great to be involved and great to have yeah local government focused. They do a fantastic job but out there, especially in the community. So whatever ALGA can do to support their work and and obviously promote, at least we can do.
00:01:59
Speaker
Yeah, I always like the ALGA events and chatting with people who do things for ALGA or work for ALGA. It's always really interesting. I think in nutshell, we bring people together, Chanel, and you know one of those is our local government specialist interest group.
00:02:13
Speaker
There was a need, I think, back in 2021 that we had not as much participation or engagement or membership from local government, but they set up their own special interest group now, and we've got a very strong network of councillors throughout Australia and New Zealand.
00:02:28
Speaker
Yeah, and I've had a bit to do with that group and it is it's a very active group. It's really great to see. So i guess that was a great segue into my first question, which is from Alder's perspective, what are the biggest challenges New South Wales councils are facing right now when it comes to managing contaminated land?
00:02:46
Speaker
Yeah, and I think from Alder's perspective and and and some of the councils that we do speak to, they are resourcing, not so much regular navigation there from a New South Wales perspective. The New South Wales EPA does work closely with councils and certainly helps out.
00:03:03
Speaker
It is really a lot about resourcing and and being alone sometimes, I think. they They do have capabilities. Sometimes those capabilities aren't recognized perhaps as they should be.
00:03:17
Speaker
And I suppose things that our our group are working towards, I think they've got two people in training now for their CENVP because they a lot of the work that they do in their day-to-day jobs certainly should possibly have been qualified for a CENVP.
00:03:31
Speaker
Yeah. And are there any particular stages in the contaminated land process where councils, I guess, more regularly get stuck or or aren't sure what to do? I think that's a fair comment. Again, they are very resilient and they have to be resilient in their in their workplace.
00:03:48
Speaker
lot of that would be around communication with their stakeholders, the client, they the regulator, the regulated but community. and And again, resource-wise as well, whether they have the right or enough staff to assist yeah in whatever project they may be working on.
00:04:05
Speaker
next I guess a ah question I'm interested to know what your thoughts are on is councils do sort of operate a vast, I guess, breadth of different projects that might come through the DA process or you know even i guess,
Council Challenges and Successes
00:04:21
Speaker
integrated development. So in terms of understanding the level of project, which they would be very well versed in, but then the applicable way to manage that from a contaminated land perspective, Do you find that that sometimes is a question that comes up with from councils?
00:04:40
Speaker
It does come up and it and and it and it does differ between urban and regional areas I think in in particular. You councils in the the Sydney Basin, if you like, do have more staff, they do have more resources.
00:04:53
Speaker
yeah Last year the Special Interest Group had their own standalone event for their network in in Port Macquarie and i think by memory we had 83 different councils in attendance and I distinctly remember a lady from Bega, a Shire Council who you had a ranger shirt on.
00:05:12
Speaker
And I thought, fantastic that you're here, but yeah how come you i are here? And she's able now part of Contaminated Lands, part of my remit now. so and and And that was, from her perspective, yeah a challenge. and and And I remember during during the conference that... it She got so much out of out of being with similar like-minded peers from other councils where they could obviously talk about these things.
00:05:34
Speaker
Yeah. And oh where do you see councils doing things really well despite these challenges? Again, they're certainly resilient. i I'm fortunate enough to know that I've had some time working not for a council but within a a a council office.
00:05:50
Speaker
So I do see them, yeah in particular, their work around the community engagement. but They like to take the community on that depending on whatever project that may be. It's important that they engage early with the community and and I've seen that happen regularly. i see it happening regularly with the consultants if I need to be consultant in and and certainly the development wise to bring the client in at the earliest possible process. I think they do those things very well and I also have seen
00:06:21
Speaker
Yeah, through our network now that they do, and I'm lucky enough that I do attend some meetings throughout the year that the interest groups, local government interest groups hold. And whilst they may be discussing opportunities or training, those kind of things, they are discussing their own personal health, well-being and issues amongst the group. It's fantastic for yeah support perspective.
00:06:44
Speaker
o And along with that support and the special interest groups and events that are put on, does ALGA provide, I guess, any other types of educational avenues for people who work in council to explore that would be relevant to their learning?
00:07:02
Speaker
So I think from Alga's perspective, again, we've done ah a few initiatives. One was back to that Port Macquarie where we, it was a two-day event where they discussed anything from emerging contaminants. They discussed the opportunity where yeah they like to develop online training tools as well.
00:07:21
Speaker
as one example for local government to have access to. So that is something they're currently working on as a group and that will be available through the ALGA website or or resource library that we have. So these are things that they constantly do discuss. And and and again, that's after the presentations. They've also been involved with webinars.
00:07:42
Speaker
In fact, last week we had one of our chairs from local government, Pilipa, who's well present day an awareness webinar to the ALGA membership. o One of the great things I've noticed with the special interest groups and the LG New South Wales group is the sharing of real life examples in ah in a safe space where they can actually give details and get feedback.
00:08:06
Speaker
Is that something I guess that you've seen really help the practitioners as well? it It is, and and and I think because it is a ah national, sorry, Australasian special interest group, I have seen that. we And there's a variety councils from far north Queensland who have their own challenges, certainly in New Zealand, similar, where they may not have the regulatory support that is available in Australia and all the expertise in some aspects.
00:08:35
Speaker
and And again, in yeah Victoria, South Australia and WA, we do have different regulatory guidelines born thin in in various states, both in Australia. So that can be challenging. But yeah the opportunity, again, to bring people together and discuss those and then with that with the hope that one day there might be, ah I suppose, a ah more national guideline to frameworks in place.
00:08:59
Speaker
Yeah. What capability gaps or skill shortages does ALGUS see emerging for councils and council officers working in contaminated lands in the next sort of 10 years?
00:09:11
Speaker
I think that a lot of it is certainly a certain skill shortages. I mean, I think definitely councils are yeah i competing with both the you the private sector for yeah people to work within local government. So that's, I think, obviously ah an ongoing challenge and there's lots of reasons for that, then including possibly income and whatnot.
ALGA's Educational and Networking Resources
00:09:34
Speaker
But yeah from what I've seen, that yeah From councils that we deal with, they're certainly very passionate with what they do.
00:09:43
Speaker
They do have that community sense. The training perspective, we in for and again from New South Wales perspective, most councils in New South Wales work closely with UTS and Saipy Wood does the CSMR course for councils.
00:09:59
Speaker
And I think that has been a fantastic initiative and and certainly it certainly helps regional councils as well because, they're again, the budget restraints on councils in getting people to attend training courses in person were is difficult. There's a significant cost in that. And again, that yeah the I think that the Port Macquarie event that we had, were so lucky to get that number of different councils in the one room over two days.
00:10:27
Speaker
And we did that by effectively slashing our registration prices in half. we yeah know we We saw the need. and We wanted to support our network and we provide councils a significant discount both in a membership and we and we do that through our webinars and and and we actually give them free webinars and free branch attendance events where they can get to And if there is a more national focus, again, we we we cut that price by 50% early system, getting them getting there.
00:10:59
Speaker
m that's That's a really good way, i think, to make sure you're getting as much buy-in as possible from not just across the state but across Australia. I think that's a really good way to do it.
00:11:12
Speaker
If there's a count person working for council or listening to this podcast who hasn't really had much to do with ALGA before but is has been working or is about to start working in the contaminated land section within council or whatever it looks like in their council,
00:11:27
Speaker
What sorts of things would you say or topics or specific areas of education would you say would, I guess, make the most sense for them to come along to an hour event to learn about?
00:11:38
Speaker
Yeah, I think ideally if someone was to approach us directly, I'd be reaching out to our special interest group committee in the first instance. They're the ones that are at the coalface. They're doing like and generally have a great deal of experience in the sector over many years.
00:11:55
Speaker
They do, and I have seen them provide mentoring roles for others that have come through into the network that we have now. That would be the first point of call. we Again, through the network, we do have online resources that the network has set up on the ALGA website and I'd certainly be directing them in that that direction as well to have a look to see what things that they have done yeah things that we're looking to do in the next year or two.
00:12:24
Speaker
but it But again, it is ah there's a lot to do. There's certainly very much an environmental focus, I think, for anyone else coming into that particular area. known And I guess um along the same line of looking at what sorts of skills people might want to invest in, upskilling in, are there any areas that you find councils undervalue until something goes wrong?
00:12:51
Speaker
I think so because, again, it's about support for the the people that working in that contaminated sector and or in in that contaminated position because, again, the rural areas may not have that capability. So they that the rural areas in in particular are going to re rely on peers who they may know from other councils or local councils near them, they would be reliant certainly on consultants in their local area.
00:13:18
Speaker
In fact, we did survey that back in 2021 and then some of the rural concerns we had was that the consultants in rural areas pretty much had the same skill set as the councils in that particular area anyway.
00:13:31
Speaker
And then from that, it was it was difficult for some of the rural councils to go to to the city for greater a help because then there's an obviously and an added cost in either getting consulted to travel to rural rural areas, those kind of things. So it's important that yeah from a managerial perspective within councils that they are supporting their the contaminated team, their water team and and other teams within within councils because They do an incredible job, again, for the for the betterment of the community that they're they're working in.
00:14:03
Speaker
So on that relationship that gets developed between council officers and consultants, is there anything that you have heard or i guess your your own opinion about how councils and consultants can work together more effectively?
00:14:18
Speaker
I think in a nutshell, would be by improving the reporting and outcomes consultants to be more aligned with planning and legislation.
00:14:29
Speaker
I think that would certainly be one of the key areas that certainly comes up within the groups that that I've heard. what can you give me
Project Management Best Practices
00:14:38
Speaker
some examples or a bit more specifics about what you mean?
00:14:41
Speaker
So I think yeah know one of the one of the things that we're trying to do is create a matrix to find interstate and other country functions and legislations where they're it they're they're more closely aligned.
00:14:53
Speaker
at at At the moment, where and I'm not not too sure that the and whilst we have their support from the New South Wales EPA or other regulators as well, I think sometimes we struggle in that communication with councils and the and the EPA and and also the consultants. And I think It's really all about that that that complete stakeholder engagement. I hope that's specific enough.
00:15:17
Speaker
Yeah, I think so so. I guess we're talking about consultants looking at the bigger picture in terms of the whole development application and understanding where their report fits in and their investigations fit in to the bigger scheme of the whole development and making sure that their conclusions and recommendations are aligned with the outcome.
00:15:42
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, i think I think council officers can feel, you know, they need to have that level of confidence that they're going through that whole process. So they need to have confidence in that consultative process, be it with the the consultant or the a developer They need to have confidence in the the regulations that are out there.
00:16:04
Speaker
They need to be able to express those to the community for community input and or engagement if required. And a lot of it has really come down to some of those soft skills, Chanel, in in just communication.
00:16:18
Speaker
and And I think that's very important. And today, obviously, there's lots of new technology and there's AI and all these other technologies tools but people still need to engage and and they do need to engage face to face a lot and I think in any organization you communication is is the key and also it should be should be the key okay so what can is one thing that councils can do early in an engagement to set a project up for success do you think
00:16:50
Speaker
I think they've got to bring everybody the same room okay to start with. I think that that is the key. in how and And listen, it I think if you can do that early on, it takes the the pressure off down the track where things may or may not go wrong.
00:17:05
Speaker
And it is very important to have those guidelines or groundwork set in place or set in concrete very early on. And I think if that is the case and and everyone is on board, in the whole process will develop a better outcome, I think, with everybody at the same page.
00:17:22
Speaker
I guess it's you you talk about relationships again as well, aren't you? Like if there's a good relationship between all parties that starts the beginning of the the project and if there's any questions that need to be asked or hard conversations that need to be had about findings, then that they're going to occur far more easily and people are going to understand where their counterparts are coming from and not get offended or and possibly misconstrue what's trying to be said.
00:17:49
Speaker
Yeah, correct. and And I think that's um yeah it's important that yeah councils aren't afraid to ask those difficult questions and and and certainly seek help from other areas because there are opportunities out there, whether it be to, again, talk with their peers, talk to the regulator. yeah that that That communication has to be very open.
00:18:10
Speaker
and and And again, suppose the opportunity to seek support from MAGA through our networks and not necessarily just the local government special interest group. There's other opportunities. and we We have about 11 or 12 special interest groups and those things are anything think from risk, it emerging sheet contaminants of concern, gas and vapour.
00:18:35
Speaker
You councils have range of issues and issues. Perhaps one of those at the moment from a council perspective would be leachate through their waste,
Future Plans and Expansion
00:18:45
Speaker
I suppose. So again, that expertise might not currently be there within council, but there's opportunity to reach out either to a particular SIG or again, other other areas of ALGA or the or the EPA to assist them with their current project that they may be working on.
00:19:04
Speaker
So we were just talking about some, I guess, emerging areas of contamination or some things which maybe are cycling back around to be of more more interest. ah Where do you see alga's education focusing on 2026, 2027? Yeah.
00:19:22
Speaker
I think our focus for 2026-27 and from a council perspective and training perspective would be through our online tools and resource center library, if you like.
00:19:37
Speaker
We you had a, you know, yesterday as a as a great example, of our Gray and Water Fate and Transport interest group had their first symposium for the year. And on the second day, we had a regulator forum there. Okay. So it is a training opportunity. It was a workshop focus. So we do try to tie those into our symposiums.
00:19:59
Speaker
And we did that also in our Port Macquarie event. And those resources then become available on our website for others to have a look at and and obviously learn and use. made do this So the,
00:20:12
Speaker
yeah I think I mentioned earlier that the network is very keen to work closer with councils in getting people skilled up to that DNVP target. And we we do have two current members applying for accreditation.
00:20:28
Speaker
which is fantastic. And I think the other part is also supporting other training initiatives that our cloud is not a trainer. we We rely on both international training organizations like the ITRC or similar to what Wood does through her CCAM courses for for New South Wales. but and And other states are certainly similar.
00:20:50
Speaker
There's a National Center for Groundwater Research and Training based out of Flinders University. And that's about 12 or 13 universities assisting both private sector and local governments with with relevant training courses for yeah whatever that lesste they may be working with. So we will certainly look to promote our local government networks and other special interests groups within the AGO membership.
00:21:11
Speaker
who And does ALGA either, I guess, facilitate or have links into mentoring opportunities, i guess, more broadly for any council officers?
00:21:23
Speaker
So we had it have a certainly more broadly we do. Now Chanel, and I think it was probably brought about again by another network. We have an emerging professionals special interest group now and and part of that emerging professionals is to have the opportunity to mentor with others.
00:21:42
Speaker
It's not, again, local government focuses all of our membership but yeah I've seen two examples straight away where we have a young council worker, I think it may have been part of your show recently, from Hornsby Council, who's relatively new to the contaminated land sector, but he's now actually engaged on our committee and and I suppose has been mentored by others from the committee.
00:22:08
Speaker
So it's an ongoing interest to either to provide mentor and mentally opportunities, I suppose. And we do that consistently as well. well I mean, at the event yesterday, as a good example, we had a number of students from UTS as ah the event was at UTS. And we try to do that, hold the event at university so we can engage more with students.
00:22:30
Speaker
And yeah i can remember fondly at the networking session on the first night that we had a young university environmental engineer looking to engage with consultants at the event.
00:22:40
Speaker
And she was fantastic. She had ah she had a very bright personality, that the want to to absorb and and mal learn. And she was asking many questions that was in that contaminated land area. Now, hopefully, that might these people can go to local government and not necessarily a private sector.
00:22:59
Speaker
But again, more from an alga perspective, that we can bring these people together and continue to promote the contaminated land, groundwater remediation sector is very important.
00:23:12
Speaker
who So there's somebody up there in council feeling a bit isolated and not really sure about whether they're making the right decisions with different projects, that sort of thing.
00:23:24
Speaker
Where would they turn to first to link up with ALGA for whatever you opportunities they're looking for? I think there still has to be some kind of structure within their own internal council, whether it be a ah peer, be it a ah management structure.
00:23:39
Speaker
But but rather than other than that, you it is important that they come directly to our group so that we can put them in contact with the right people or person within a network, a local government or or somewhere else because...
00:23:53
Speaker
There had been instances the last two years that I am very familiar with where yeah ah council workers had to leave their role because of the pressure that was on them.
00:24:05
Speaker
And that there may have been other pressures outside their day-to-day work, but it's yeah for mental health perspective, it's extremely important that they do seek support. And I hope that our guys, that we, in fact, I i don't hope, I know that We are a safe place and we have some incredible people out there that would be, are very willing to support anyone that is going through such difficult circumstances and pressure. Hmm.
00:24:34
Speaker
Well, thank you so much for being my guest today. Is there anything else that you would like to say about Alga? Thank you very much, Chanel. I think from an Alga perspective, we are blessed that we have strong engagement from local government, state government, federal government, regulators. Our industry is extremely diverse and I think we're just here to bring everybody together and support the wider industry that we're all part of given that there's lots of changes with again emerging components and those things so we just want to continue to grow the ALGA membership and continue to grow the local government interest group and which was formed back in 2021 and and that did thank you Chanel it's a pleasure to work with our grants a pleasure to work with our volunteers
00:25:24
Speaker
Oh, it's a pleasure been a pleasure having you on our podcast today. Thank you so much.
Podcast Conclusion
00:25:28
Speaker
And that wraps up this episode of Contamination Station Podcast. Thanks for listening. Thanks for joining us for this series. This has been the last episode, but don't forget, you can always go back and listen to the other episodes of Contamination Station, Safer Environment Together, anytime you'd like.