Arc 16: Monarch

Transcript

Speaker: Worm is a web serial by J .C. McCray, also known as Wildbo. You can read Worm in its original format by visiting parahumans ah .wordpress dot .com or donate to Wildbo's Patreon at patreon dot .com slash wildbo. This story isn't intended for young or sensitive readers. Readers who are on the lookout for trigger warnings are advised to give Worm a pass. For a complete list, check the description for all of Worm's trigger warnings.

Speaker: Good morning, Brockton Bay. I hope you're ready for a barbecue because things are burning. Oh man. Yes, they are. Welcome everyone to arc 16 episode. I don't know what episode number we are. We're on 16. Who knows who knows? We'll label it. I know man. What an episode we got here. What an arc joined as always with the Brockton Bay book club. Uh, myself, Jacob and Alan and Nick a and hello'm just running down the list here and Michael on the keys. Uh -huh. I don't know. I forget what instrument I'm giving you. I've always wondered how you were able to edit all of this.

Speaker: while being blind. It's really kind of incredible. He's got magical ears. That's what it is. Yeah, I mean, yeah. It's just super empirical, really. I don't know why you said that, but I thank you.

Speaker: I think I know why Mike. Um, I actually really don't, but we're going to move on and we have something very exciting. We actually have two voicemails to listen to from our fan community. Oh, it's a Christmas already. I know it's, we've been waiting up so long to hear from the fans. And so, yes, here's the first one. Let's see if this works. this this is this is

Speaker: sweetar I just want to say, I think you guys are really cool. And I hope you're getting a pizza party. Okay, that's all. Thank you so much. Okay, bye bye. wow Wow. Wow. That child was really, but really a fan. No, no, I don't think it was a child. Did his parents know that we were listening to this? I believe we got that sweetheart on the mic right there. Thank you for saying the name because I heard sweet Chuck and I was like, Oh, sweet Chuck. yeah mind and shock talk How are we to know? Boy just wants a pizza, you know?

Speaker: I mean, I think i think ah this listener is just happy to be part of part of ah something so amazing, really. He sounded like he was he like you like he sounded like he was recording that inside a closet, perhaps. um you know Perhaps he was. Out of range. There's nothing wrong with that, Sweet Chuck. Yeah, Sweet Chuck. You, you be in that closet. Thank you. Anyways, sorry for all the bratements, sweet Chuck. And, um, thank you for calling in and here is the next and final voicemail of tonight. If you guys want to also be a voicemail call in at nine eight zero nine nine nine zero four three eight. And your voicemail might be featured. Hello, this is Kayla Scott.

Speaker: I do not have a cake name because I haven't actually read the web serial worm yet. But I still just wanted to call and let you guys know that I've been listening to your podcast each week and I've really been enjoying them. And I think you all are hilarious, awesome people. And I love hearing your thoughts. So please keep making this podcast. I'm a huge fan. Very nice. And I know a lot of other people are as well. And I feel like even though I haven't read the web serial, I enjoy hearing about it and it feels like I'm vicariously living it through you guys. So thank you so much for putting the podcast out there. I hope you guys have a great week. Oh, that person sounds very sweet. that' So nice. Thanks, Kayla. Yeah. Very sweet of you. It warms the cockles of my heart. Yeah.

Speaker: Kaylee, you should probably read the web serial instead of just listening to it. Or if you would just like the abridged version, ah we could maybe come up with something where we'll give you our version of it, i mean i like it like a different different than the dissecting worm. It's just us retelling it. Is that not the summaries that I do every time we were talking? this yeah yeah I feel like it does more there could be more flavor to them. Like instead of saying. Kind of like a ah kind of like um all of the abridged series, except we come up with our own audio book version, except it's worm abridged. Yes. And it's just all of the all of the really dumb things that we say. 100%. Put together in an audio book form. We need a we get casually explained for worm.

Speaker: Uh, anyone knows that YouTube YouTube channel. yes you know so okay it like well Yeah. Hannah, I acknowledge and recognize that that is already what you're doing. And thank you so much for your summary work. They are very helpful and it sounds like Kayla would agree. So there there we go. But yes, we should definitely do whatever this Patreon idea is that you're all talking about. The exclusive content. So 980 -999 -0438 if you want to potentially be able to be heard on air. Full disclosure, this episode was recorded before we had Patreon members. So the following discussion was about the hypothetical acquisition of Patreon members.

Speaker: If we got even one paid Patreon member, we would release something for you. I assure you. be We would dote on that person so hard. that person You could get the tattoo. You wouldn't get the tattoo. That's true. The pizza's not going to be great, but it it'll be there. but you Hey, we'll send it. Yeah, maybe we'll just send you a gift card. Don't make promises to people on the internet. You guys know what exists on the internet. We know who our listeners are. I could keep that promise. I will send a pizza slice to our first Patreon member. You can hold me to it. A New York pizza slice at that. If you're really into it, I've got some Kaiser feet pics that I could send you as well.

Speaker: i think I think we're about to pick up a couple Patreons, you know? And Patreon members will also receive a signed and written apology from me on behalf of the cast. the ah You will get the opposite. Whatever the opposite of an apology is, that's what you'll receive from me to counteract that. If I'm keeping track, I think we've also promised Jacob's hand in marriage. If anyone like knows where the rings and calls in. so like oh that we have a lot We've promised a lot. So no one's taking us up on it. I don't know why. and yeah and bad book club The podcast that over promises and always

Speaker: under delivers. So far no one's met the criteria, so we we haven't even had a chance. you know that' true you know The Brockton Bay Book Club, the podcast that lives to say the word technically.

Speaker: um That is accurate. That is correct. yeahll I'll clip that for later. but Well, I think we have delayed long enough here. And thank you to all of our listeners who have stuck with us for these first eight minutes. We appreciate you. And we're going to get going into some warm Arc 16. Speaking of amazing summaries, Hannah, do you want to break down maybe the first couple chapters here? Yeah, yeah, ah there's a lot that happens in Arc 16 monarch. ah It's just a lot. There are three separate interludes and it's, I would say that this arc is pretty nicely bundled into specific chapters. So um I'm going to bundle up um the first couple of chapters and interlude here as the um dragon situation.

Speaker: So chapter one opens up. Taylor is holding barbecue in her territory and Gru joins in, but dragon crashes the party. Hoyle promises that if Taylor can take care of the dragon situation, that their bargain will be considered complete um in regards to Dinah. ah Chapter two, the undersiders and the travelers attack the PRT headquarters and Taylor blips in and out of different floors, ah you know, chaos ensues and imp kidnaps. Pig it to go. However you want to say that. And then we have our interlude here.

Speaker: which is um kind of like a PRT squad as they ah move into Ellisburg, a city that has been taken over by a cape named Nilbog. They face up against Nilbog and the weird creatures that he's created. um We reveal that one of the characters in this group is Piget from a long time ago. And um we get a glimpse of someone who's been mentioned, but Thomas Calvert. um chapter three uh pig it now you know in the hands of the undersiders fucks around with them not offering any useful information gets under taylor's skin gets under tata tail skin and eventually tells them the dragon is working with a new tinker and that she is dying from the uh from the injuries that she uh got facing off against no bug so so long ago um

Speaker: i i seems place keep going but i don I think I'm gonna stop there before yeah, I think that's a good place to pause yeah, I mean I've got enough enough stuff we could have Stopped at the first interlude or even the first I mean there's yeah i mean there is a there's a ton of information in these chapters, but it's it's before we face off so It's worth mentioning before we jump into, ARC 16 is the longest ARC in all of worm. It comes in at just under a hundred thousand words. Holy shit. This is a whole book unto itself. It really is. It's yeah it's wild to me though, because, and and I mentioned this before we even started reading as we were just chatting, this ARC goes like, as in it just, it just rolls. Yeah. As as in i I found myself just wanting to keep reading.

Speaker: yeah each and every part. And I think this is part of why I forgot so much is because back when I was in college and had fewer responsibilities, I succumbed to that temptation. And I probably just read this entire arc in one sitting because so much happens in this one. And it's yeah absolutely wild. I love it. All right. Well, let's jump into it. Starting off with a nice little barbecue in Taylor's territory. We're at the end of the Fast and Furious movie. You know, we're, we're hanging out after having just defeated the slaughterhouse nine in whatever hot rods they drive around in. And, you know, we're just trying to kick it back with family and enjoy a good meal together. But doggone it if the feds don't kick in the door and ruin everything.

Speaker: I remember the barbecue going on for longer and being a nicer thing before it got ruined. But no, we can't have that. We can't have nice things. Yeah, we really can. i'm sorry It feels like they just cannot seem to get a break. like You'd think that maybe after everything that had happened with the Slaughterhouse -9 that they might get at least a small reprieve, but no, absolutely not. And I think, I think that immediate action is part of what contributes to why this arc feels so tense and you just want to keep reading because it is that expectation and kind of that hope where you're just hoping for a a few quiet moments, you know, that, that slice of life, that slice of life superhero story that Alan wants so bad, but it,

Speaker: this arc just hits the ground running. They're having the barbecue, they're chatting, and then all of a sudden, hot damn, there's a giant robot on the on the roof. Nick, you've activated my trap card. I was ranting about this earlier on the phone with Hannah, but Wild Bo has this thing where he writes, um where he does not let off the gas pedal. Um, he did it for worm, you know, his first work, he did it for packed his second, you know, work, and he did it for twig, his third work. And it's not until ward that he figures out that downtime can be good. Like he really hates the concept of just sitting back and watching your characters do a little slice of life, you know? And yeah honest to God, it's my favorite part. you You all know this, Nick, like, thank you for putting that out. Um, and man.

Speaker: Like, I just want them to have the barbecue. That's all I want. yeah know and and You deserve a nice pork shoulder. It takes him six years and three serials to figure out that, you know, 50 % of the people who read worm hate that shit and the other 50 % love it. So, yeah. Well, I think it's, I imagine it's a problem with the web serial format potentially yeah in ah in a book, you have a bit more time to sit down and have that downtime and think through how you want to measure out the rise and fall of the action.

Speaker: But with a web serial, you're trying to bring people in every week, right? So you don't write actually want to have what could be considered by some of your loyal readers a dead chapter. Not to say that any of Wild Boast chapters are dead chapters, even the slice of life ones. But i can I can imagine that as a format, the web serial format kind of pushes you that direction. Cause even looking back at like older ones, like a tale of two cities and old, you know, other old books that were written as web serials, you notice there's a lot that happens in every section. You're like, wow, this is like four subplots here in this one chapter. yeah Why did they do that? And it's just because they're trying to interested. yeah It has to always end on a cliffhanger every single chapter. um right It's like goosebumps. Every chapter is a cliffhanger, even if it's just one page. Yeah.

Speaker: I like, I get that, but I also think at the same time, the format of your writing so much and you're releasing it twice. So, you know, we'll just say minimum twice a week. Like I think that constitutes an excellent format for you to go on doing mundane shit. Like it might not be the most exciting thing, but if you're reading a long format, where where we are getting into intricate detail about everything, ah we can get into intricate detail about Maxim and Relaxen, you know? Nothing wrong with that. That's the anime way, is now we're going to have 20 episodes where they figure out how to cook shrimp, you know? Yeah. and Maybe we don't go that far. but

Speaker: But I think I've always thought that the serial especially played out. Like I said, when we get to ward, I think it's played out really well. Um, where much like we had in earlier chapters, uh, there's or earlier arcs, there's sort of a rest action, rest action. Like there's the swing back and forth. Yeah. Yeah. Even in the arcs. And for this, it's like you you just, you haven't gotten it for. a couple arcs and judging by the end of this one, we're not going to get it. Like it's, ah he just loves holding down the gas pedal and letting shit just continue to roll downhill. Um, and you know, it's one of those things where as we talk, I think the timeline gets brought up again at some point in time, like so far we are still in like,

Speaker: What the first two, we haven't left two months yet since the beginning of this book. Yeah. ceal Something crazy like that. Yeah. Yeah. Like, Oh man, it's been a crazy two months. I'm like two months. Like, and imagine it being a a civilian that like ends up and in, in, in skidders territory after everything. Like you're just like your life these past two months have been absolute hell. You've got all the villain, all the gang stuff that goes right into Bakita's bombs. That goes right into Leviathan. That goes right into slaughterhouse nine.

Speaker: right And like now you're getting your barbecue, you're getting your chance to rest and maybe hold whatever loved one is still alive. And we get assaulted with a bunch of robots. Like it's just... I just imagine all the regular people that were like throwing bottles and stuff at Dragon, they didn't they didn't really care that Dragon was a good guy or a bad guy or not. They're just like, screw you, I wanted my barbecue. Yeah, you know real that's what I'd be doing. I love that. I mean, I feel like it it's it because we hear about it a little bit later with the the voting for the mayor and everything. But like, there seems to be a ah huge disconnect of like what people know to be true. Like, ah yes, they are villains versus like,

Speaker: Well, v the villains have done stuff for us. Like the villains have actually, you know, tried to fix things. And like, even if you might never have sided with, with skitter or the undersiders before, like, regardless of who dragon is like, you're finally able to have a beer. Like, fuck this giant dragon mech. Like, let me have my PBR. Jesus. Exactly. Yeah. And going back to how chaotic it kind of seems to stay. It, uh, we only, we've only introduced more characters, you know, so yeah can't really slow down that much. You know, no how would you, but it would be, I do like the idea of the barbecue being a whole episode or whatever that'd be nice. It would be nice.

Speaker: Well, no time for barbecues. We got dragons on the loose. <unk> Dragons i Taylor a Taylor's comment, you know, I hate really hate tankers, but I really hate to share. We lost Alan. Got so mad about the barbecue that he can't talk anymore. is blip down now I can still see my way format. And then Taylor whips out this line. Like I hate tankers, but I really hate tankers who share and man, if a dragon and

Speaker: Defiant aren't sharing a whole lot of things. You know what I'm saying? I'm sharing a lot. oh Yeah, they're um they work well together. Wait, wait, wait. Oh, sorry. I freaked out for a second. No, keep going. Keep going. I bet you did when we realized, when Michael realized what we were actually talking about. yeah You might even say that they've synced up. Oh, I like that. They put the male part of the USB port into the female USB port, so to speak. Yeah, exactly. Do you guys know that those were called the male and female parts, by the way? Anyways. Yeah. For most electrical stuff, I think. I learned that the other day. It's weird. Yeah. Anyway, they fucking... What would you call it, Nick? What would you call it, Nick? If you had to rename it.

Speaker: The stick and the hole, but I guess that's not much better. you know now That's what I call it. The old stick and hole. no The shiver and the receiver. now There's only tops and bottoms in my universe. um ah That stick and hole sounds like. You know, it's to be fair. What were you going to say? I was going to say it's a, it's, it's a father in the like 1700s explaining to their child what the birds and the bees. like It's like, Daryl, are you going to teach our boy about the stick in the hole? It's like, I guess about the stick in the hole. yeah Let me tell you about a stick in a hole. now See, I was, I was going to say that, um, you know,

Speaker: And as you said, in your universe, there's only tops or bottoms, but I would love a switch USB that could work either way, no matter how you fix it. Oh, okay. So that's, I mean, there's a lot of weird dongles out there. And let me tell you, they ain't straight. That's for sure. I'm glad I asked this question. I about to Michael, you did this. Michael, are you not entertained? No, I am. I said, I'm glad, you know.

Speaker: This is a really fun scene though. ah love I love it when characters aside from your like protagonist get moments to really shine. And this does feel like a good, Dragon has a few of these, but this one is specific in these couple chapters here. Really fun seeing Dragon kind of go all out, quote unquote, ah gets a chance to really show her power. ah Which is cool and all, but I feel like Dragon has got her ass kicked every time she's shown up. but She definitely is like that. Yeah. She is. It's funny because she's an AI, but dragon is almost like the, that Paragon good hero. Like we talk about how, oh, legend kind of has that. Yeah.

Speaker: persona like he's the Superman face or that kind of thing. It's really correct. Yeah, but and that's to the world and worm. Yeah, that's true. But like to the reader, that character is dragon like dragon is the no kill rule. Everything all phasers are set to stun, you know, ah not going to get don't let anybody get hurt. Don't knock over anybody's, you know, fine China. It's just she's like as careful as can be the the pinnacle of that good hero ideology. I'm waiting up for the moment. like except yeah except for barbecue I'm waiting for the yeah the the Superman moment where Dragon just goes. I've been lit playing in a world filled with organic material. I've been holding back in a world full of meat bags. Yeah.

Speaker: Exactly. Got to get one of those. We kind of do in a couple of chapters with, uh, with one of her suits, but we'll get there. Not to get ahead. Can't rush ahead. There's too much to go through. We move on to their attack, uh, understood her undersiders and travelers regroup to attack the PRT. I think the, the blipping Taylor in and out through the, through the windows is, is smart, especially after everything with the slaughterhouse nine, like. you know, they probably haven't replaced a lot of their glass. So you don't worry about the, you know, the sunlight hitting the outside and reflecting or anything. So like her blipping in and out on these floors is it's it's a smart move. I just, it feels like it's not like there wasn't a ah plan other than we're just going to have you show up and cause some chaos and that's it. Like it didn't, did we not have more of a plan than that?

Speaker: Like, there is a plan and it succeeds, but even after you get the Oceans 11, like, ah, and here's what we actually pulled off and, you know, it gets revealed. It still felt like the most half -assed, like, oh, let's go in there and knock all the China cabinets down. And then while they're not paying attention to that, we'll grab the family parakeet. like And meanwhile, there's somebody watching the entire room, like, oh, look, they're knocking down the china cabinets and now they're taking the birdcage. Like, like it it didn't feel like it was that much of a distraction. It's an insult to pig it. It was so funny. yeah If she had to be, she'd be more of like a hamster, like a guinea pig. Wow, wow. And a parakeet? Come on.

Speaker: No, pick it. Pick it feels like, um, that really loyal old dog. Like a Cocker manual that can barely just move anymore. Yeah. Poor thing, like you feel bad for her, but she is like if in those moments when they are sharp, they are on it and picket, of course, is and this a bit of an exaggeration, of course, with the image, but Piget is a character who is on it. She is somebody who has, as we find out in the interlude faced probably the worst of the worst when it comes to superheroes. Yeah. And ironically is in a position of power over them while hating them and despising them. And she just does not give a flip. She's like.

Speaker: Yeah, you you know, I'm, I'm going to die if you don't do this. And and I know I'm getting into the later things and I don't want to, I don't want to ah miss how cool this fight is with trickster and skitter working together. Cause that is super cool, but I don't want to undersell picket either. She's kind of a cool character in her own way. Yeah. Yeah. The fight's so cool with, uh, my favorite and I'll never forget this part is the, uh, the switch falling. Oh, yes. That's scary. Is it Taylor that just keeps jumping out the window? Yep. And then Trickster keeps switching, like she just keeps doing it. It's so good. Just runs up, jumps, teleports back, runs up, jumps again. Terrifying. It's so cinematic. There are all these normies inside. Like you switch with any of them. They are breaking up. They're not coming out of that. Like they're going to hit the cement and splat. Like, come on.

Speaker: They're specifically grabbing the heroes, I'm pretty sure. Is it the heroes? I didn't realize they were. They're grabbing the heroes and they're only dropping them a few feet, really. They're not dropping them from the third floor where she jumps out. It's more like she switches her a couple feet. Yeah, like halfway there. Enough to knock the wind out of them, but not kill anybody. A solid 10 feet of funk. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And I get to sound like a broken record because we say this all the time with a lot of these characters. But I love the way that Wild Bo really makes some of these smaller powers like Trickster shine, where yeah it doesn't feel very combat effective. like It's an effective power. But like you don't really think of someone like Trickster posing any kind of threat to

Speaker: these really crazy characters, but it kind of does. and And it feels really viable. Like this could work, like just moving everyone around or in previous arcs where he's just like keeping crawler from coming closer, things like that. And it's really fun to see like, I love the way wild boat continues to evolve the way these powers and characters adapt to different fights and scenarios. Yeah. It's very something that I really enjoyed ah when we did like a little bit of, you know, Weaver dice role play with powers where like we got randomly generated powers and then we role played in that world. But it's like, you know, Baldur's gate three is out right now. It's like, what if at the beginning of the game, you were randomly assigned one spell. That is the spell you get to use like.

Speaker: And that's it. And then you could play the whole campaign with that one spell. That is what it is like here. And I think that's so, I think that's interesting. I think that'd be super fun. Yeah. Yeah. You have to be inventive with your, with your one power and like make it work for you and make it do things that someone else might not think to do, but because it's yours and you've had it. Oh yeah. I'm going to throw myself out the window. That works. okay how new

Speaker: Go for it. Let's see what happens. Yeah, I love that. But they get, uh, it works. I was going to say, yeah, it works. They get, they get picket or imp. I should say imp kimp gets picket. And again, classic imp never don't see her the entire fight. yeah And then there she is. I forgot she was there. Every time. I will say that because the, the, the undersiders do tend to like break up and go in different groups to do different things. Sometimes you just lose track of who's in what group. And so like forgetting the imp is there, if they're all together as like a giant group, then like it's harder to lose.

Speaker: track of her, but if they're they're broken up and they're in different ah formations, as it were, it's it's easy you to forget like, oh, wait, who is supposed to be here and who isn't like, okay, you know, so -and -so is gone, so -and -so is with this other person. Like, well, where's Emp? Like, well, either she's here and we've forgotten about her or she's just with the other group. And so whenever she does show back up, it's like, this is so fun. Like, hi, there you are. I forgot we were doing that. yeah

Speaker: Isn't there a whole thing like where she has a note in her hair? Yes. they Yes. So she like reaches back and her hair is tied back with a piece of paper and Taylor like pulls the piece of paper out and it's like, Oh, it's her own writing. It's Taylor's writing. And she's like, huh, go to the beach. Cool. I guess we're going to the beach. like ah I love that. It is, it is just such a, again, imp just continues. I like these little powers, you know, where, whether it's regent, not with the mind control, but just with the nerve flick or imp with the, oops, you forgot I'm there or trickster with the flipping things around. These are just kind of the fun powers to me. The ones that yeah are very simple, but very cool when they're used. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Um, interlude.

Speaker: Yes. Oh yeah, interlude. Oh boy. I've mentioned before that there's a lot of this that I don't remember. This is one of the interludes I remember because I think nil bug is one of, you know, it just occurred to me that i I think I really like creepy. Yes. like yes but You just realized this. I think Nelbaug is super cool and I really love him. yeah

Speaker: yeah Yeah, I don't remember most of this other stuff, but I do remember no bog and I did remember bone saw and so I, I, it was just, I didn't remember what he did though. Like what it was. I just remember this, there the city was like secluded, but it was so like, it's like creepy little monsters that they remind me of, um, the, ah oh no. What have the episodes from, uh, Rick and Morty, that like weird pocket world. That guy goes into. I literally have it. It's Beth's. Yeah, that's play world. I literally have the note the first time I saw that Rick and Morty episode. All I could think was this this interlude. It's so creepy. I will hump this tree. I will. I will hump this rock. Yeah. Yeah, it's not great. It's not great at all. All these monsters. i hope Yeah, I will. Yep. Mm hmm.

Speaker: it's gross it's It's gross, but it's super fascinating. and like I think maybe just the body horror of it is what is so interesting. ah ah i ah Yeah, no, absolutely disgusting, but super cool nonetheless. Great name. Yeah. and but no bar It's goblin backwards. I know, but it it works so well though. It's cool. I like it. Did you know that wild bow broke his toe when he spelled goblin bow? Oh my gosh. He's referring to people who know too much about Lord of the Rings and like oh my gosh with that yeah the helmet and the, yeah yeah. However, it does just go to show you that, uh,

Speaker: Simply flipping a word backwards does make it sound a lot scarier because nil bog has such a different feel to it than goblin. does yeah Um, and now card yeah, alucard sounds a lot. yeah It feels a lot different than Dracula. Um, sometimes. You don't need to be that creative. You just need to flip a word backwards. Exactly. Noted. Good point. I was going to say, write it down. All the writers are making notes right now. And everyone who didn't know about the no bog thing is like, whoa. So my name is Nala. And Hannah's is Hannah. Oh, fuck that. My name's a palindrome.

Speaker: um I do like to imagine, though, that um That wild bow came to it in a different path, in the sense of like, oh, nil. Nil is kind of like Nighill for nothing. And a bog is like a swamp. So nil bog is kind of like a, ah, dammit, it's just gobbling backwards. It reminds me of ah the branded sand duds. Brandon Sanderson story about Elantris where he was writing this story with his, I think it was his college writing. And he called it the city of Adonis and his one friend, you know, read it and goes, well, where's the Greek like call back? And he's like, what the hell are you talking about? Like, why would there be Greek imagery? And they're like getting this argument back and forth and back and forth. And finally, like.

Speaker: The guy listening to them can't take it anymore. And he goes, Brandon Adonis is a Greek, like, is a Greek figure. and And you other guy, he doesn't get that. And he's like, no, that's wrong. And then he came back to the next meeting and it was like, So I looked up a dime. I didn't make up that name. so I hate when that happens. Oh my gosh. No, I had, uh, I had somebody come to me, uh, with a song idea because I make music also. And they were like, Oh, I have this amazing like chorus or some, I don't remember what it was now, but yet he's like humming it. I'm like.

Speaker: I can't even remember what the song was now, but I'm like, it's like top 10 on the radio right now, what you're hovering. like like He's like, no, no, it's not. I'm like, no, listen. And I'm like, play it. He's like, oh, gosh, no. I thought it was a genius. I hate this. When you think you're a genius and you're actually like one month late. It's like, Oh, we need to make this song. I'm like, dude, this is the thing already. Like a lot. Yeah. It's already been made, sir. know Well, great news. We don't have to make it. It's already been made. You can just listen to it on the radio. yeah Yeah. And yeah, it's, it's super creepy. And, uh, I, I remember this interlude from the first time reading it.

Speaker: Um, very memorable. I don't remember exactly what happens in the interlude, like the details of them blowing everything up with rock, you know, with grenade launchers and shit like. Cool. It's one of the, yeah, it's, it's just crazy. And, and it feels like we have a slaughterhouse nine and yes, collectively they were an S class threat and like Siberian and bone saw, you can kind of understand why they get that classification, but they still feel human in a way. Um, nil bog doesn't nil bog feels like an end bringer type creature. Like it's just this,

Speaker: and this whole organism, the size of a city, essentially. And it feels unbeatable. like It's deserving of that classification. At the end, they're just like, oh, well, all right, we're just going to let him do his thing. ah You stay over there. We're not going to bug you anymore. The PRT really said, yeah, we're going to wall that shit up. And we're not going to touch it. He's just going to exist over there in his little corner. And we're all just going to pretend that that city no longer exists. They really just went, yeah, OK, we're all just going to move on.

Speaker: like what Also to its to to preempt all of those about to correct Jacob, he knows that the city isn't an organism. Just classifying, you know, the threat of nil bog is the whole city. like yeah because of all but his little creepy creations. Unfortunately, you weren't fast enough, Ellen. They've already paused the yeah podcast and have commented. You've already commented. They just went back and deleted their comment now. No, you know it. Sure as hell they did. They're like... They already stopped listening, actually. They walked away at this point. Turn it off. Exactly.

Speaker: But, um, I will say as a, as a note of humor that came to me, um, in the darkness of this section, uh, the narrator notes that while when they actually come across the real, I don't remember the real guy's name, um, but the real guy who is nil bog now, um, and they hear him speak, they mentioned how He has this high -pitched, whiny voice, and it's creepy amidst all the monsters, how human it sounds. And for some reason, the only voice I could think of was Lemon Greb. No! Especially because he's yelling and raging, and I'm gonna step away from the mic for this, so sorry, Michael, if you have to clip it or not, but just the... You will worship me! Let me do it!

Speaker: um Yeah. Just in the midst of all the taters. I love it. I love it so much. Is it James Rinky? Jamie Rinky.

Speaker: riny yeah the baker Yeah. Jamie's not a scary name, so it's it's kind of fun. Rink, though. Yeah, Rink. That definitely screams serial killer vibes.

Speaker: We interrupt our scheduled program to bring you a word from our sponsor, Zencaster, a one -stop shop for all your podcasting needs. When we first started this podcast, we knew we needed a service that would let us record remotely. After doing some research, Zencaster was the obvious choice. We started using Zencaster and never looked back. It's super easy to record a podcast with Zencaster. All you do is log in, invite people to join your room, and start recording a high quality podcast right away. You can record studio quality sound and up to 4K video with your guests. You can rest easy even if you have an unstable connection, knowing Zencaster's multi -layered backups ensure you always have your recordings in the highest quality. We do all our recording in Zencaster.

Speaker: And when the episode is ready, we can distribute it to all major podcast platforms. Zencaster has made podcasting so much easier with its all -in -one podcasting platform and tools. Go to zencaster .com slash pricing and use my code BROCKTONBAYBC and you'll get 30 % off your first month of any Zencaster paid plan. I want you to have the same easy experiences I do for all my podcasting and content needs. It's time to share your story. That's zencaster .com slash pricing and use our code rockton bay BC. And now back to our scheduled programming.

Speaker: i like though I like how the the governments in this world, but like that is just a solution they've clearly used before and don't aren't afraid to use it again where they're just like, well, we give up, just wall it off, abandon it. like That's kind of half the subplot in this whole arc is... is do they just abandon Brockton Bay? Like that's part of the whole mayoral debate, right? So it's just like, that is a legitimate ah strategy that the government just does. You know, it's a common theme in a lot of movies, you know, just wall the city off and drop a nuclear bomb on it. You know, I'll be honest. I don't know why we don't do that more now. You know, talk about build a wall. But have we thought about doing that to just, I don't know, Detroit,

Speaker: controversial fake from Alan alert. Yeah, I got all of our Detroit. If it was, if it was Rick and Morty, then it'd be like the, they switch realities. Yeah. Right there. All right. This reality is dead. Yeah. Yeah. yeah that That is true. Like wash their hands of it and like, yeah, I'm moving on squirrels. ah Squirrels rule this one. I already have the format Jacob. It's it's the, all right. In and out of Ellis Berg 15 minutes. ah Super easy adventure. in and out of center. ah

Speaker: This is with Piget and Thomas Calvert in and out. It's, it's either that or it's just a hard cut to a Donald Glover in the helicopter. Michael, you know, from mr. And mrs. Smith. Yup. after Covered in blood. Yeah. Covered in blood. Yeah. Just how to go. It was great. yeah yeah We love that the, the heroes were the first to be like, yeah, fuck it. Yeah. Oh God. That's gotta be such a horrible realization for the, wreck for the normies just to be like, Hey, where's our superhero backup? Oh, they left.

Speaker: Yo, what do you mean they fucking left? They couldn't crack it and they flew off. Like, what? I feel like worm just is the the personification of the ah there's always a bigger fish like meme or it's just a matter how strong you are there's always an end bringer or a no bog or it's just something else out there that's just bigger you and better than you are yeah or the nine exactly there's just always a bigger fish and worm and

Speaker: If you're outclassed, you just, you get gotta go home. Catch your losses. yeah um Just go home. Hope they don't follow you. If your home still exists. Yeah, right. Exactly. All right. Shall we move on? We got a ways to have a long way to go. Uh, yeah. Chapter three. Okay. Real quick though. Can I spoil something that occurs later in the arc as a theory for this interlude? Okay. We learned later that Thomas Calvert, is in fact, Goyle. And I realized that, so I went back to this and I was thinking about the way that Thomas Calvert was speaking about how he escaped Novog's creatures. He talks about how the person in front of him, he said, they were going too slow. So I killed them and took their place.

Speaker: Now, my theory is that this is when Coyle had his trigger event. He only knows this. And if you look at the way he speaks about it, he speaks about it so surely as ah as if he says, if they hadn't, I would have died. Or if they hadn't gotten out of the way, or if I hadn't killed them, I would have died. He speaks about us so surely, makes me think that was his trigger, created two realities. One where he waited for the guy, one where he didn't, and of course went with the one where he survived. So just a theory. I don't, there's no way to confirm that of course. I like it. I like it a lot. Can we look it up? Maybe. i mean I'll look it up. I don't think they ever talk about a coil trigger. I just want to see if that maybe something says it in the Wiki.

Speaker: Oh, true. I'm scrolling right now. I don't often have a big brain moment, but this was mine for this arc. Yeah, I like it. I like it. Oh, I think it says he, uh, it says he bought a power from Coltrane. Yeah. Oh, you know, I, but I like, I like yours better. I like the idea that like, yeah you need to errata your text, change it. and No, we're going to we're going to work that over to the to the dissecting worm. yeah That is getting added. We'll take it. I like it. It makes sense. I like it. I guess he does technically need it. that was gonna say I don't think ald I don't think they ever mentioned. I mean, it must be in like a later chapter of the story where they mention that coil bottom or something. Can I have no I have no record. Yes.

Speaker: Maybe later with more cauldron. I don't, I, I'm my imagine that like, because him and you know what, I'm not even going to say anything that way. Michael doesn't have to edit it out. Okay. No spoilers in this podcast. None whatsoever. If you want to hear more, go to the, uh, wait for next week. Yeah. dissecting warm now I hadn't thought that much about it other than the fact that he just like openly admits. that he murdered somebody. Yeah. his lies yeah of Everything because of it, right? I'm just, you know, I'll go to jail for a couple of years. I'm getting court martial, the yada, yada. And, and like at first, you know, him and piggett are like bonding kind of, and then he reveals like, yeah, I just casually like killed the guy while I was on my way out. It'd taken too long. Yada, yada. um Yeah.

Speaker: And she's like, God damn, I'm on the only sane person left, which super piget like line, yeah like i'm the only sane person in the entire world. eight Yeah. Yeah. Sure. You are. All right. All right. so I mean, I'm sure it felt like it after that, after that fucking after that inan yeah disaster. Yeah. Uh, speaking of, uh, only same person though, I will say, my God does picket hold her own in this chapter in chapter three here with, uh, the whole undersiders. She is just.

Speaker: Like this feels like a conversation between a bunch of teenagers and a seasoned ah veteran of this whole world. yeah like it's yeah She's just like doesn't have time for their business. We were talking about what animal, what pet she would be if we are getting abducted. She's not a parakeet. She's not a hamster. She's just a goddamn honey badger. She's not supposed to be a pet. She's in the corner and you're like, why the fuck is there a honey badger here? And then you go to take it and you, you know, you get out with it in a blanket, but then you're in a van with a honey badger, you know, and it's here to fuck your shit up.

Speaker: I just like her interactions with, uh, tattletale. Like, I think her back and forth is so good with tattletale of like the the game. Like even we, when we saw during the slaughterhouse nine on them on the phone, like they're back and forth like that. Like, Oh, I'm, I'm going to be interested to see how this goes. Like, yeah, I'll put a sock in it. Like, I don't want to hear it. Yeah. Yeah. That's that. That being said, this entire conversation is what Like I get it from Taylor's perspective. Why? Everybody on the hero's side is so fucking frustrating. Cause like pig, it brings up the bakuta incident. That's no one's fault. Like that's right. That's one person's fault. And one person only like, Oh, when will you take responsibility then that she like whips out right after it was like, I don't know. Maybe when it's actually my fault, like, but and then like, Oh, like

Speaker: ah God, just, just fuck her, fuck her the entire time. She's a piece of shit. I'm glad she got off her hemodialysis machine. I hope she never gets back.

Speaker: yeah Well, she gets her, uh, she gets thrown into the bus here in a couple of chapters. So. Well, it was a real bus and not a metaphorical one. I like her. I think that she's good for, for the position that she's, I'm like, she doesn't have a lot that she can work with. And as like one of the normies, like, I think she does very well for, you know, where she is as if, you know, of course under the capacity that like the heroes don't seem to do a ton of good, but like what they do is always a little weird and skewed. But like, I think for what she has to work with, Piget does a pretty decent job.

Speaker: Yeah. Oh no, absolutely. I mean, she is like, she's a civilian trying to wrangle in a bunch of capes that are essentially gods. And here she is has to try to control everything, maintain order in the city, probably balance a budget somewhere from federal funding. That's, you know, who knows yeah how that gets distributed. It's just like she is, I don't know how she sleeps. It's got to be the most stressful job in the whole world. Absolutely. I just, I, the inability to bend or work it like, I get it. They're villains. I get there doing villainy shit, but like at this point in time with this is like, and bring her, like, you should have a little bit of a grace period post and bring her. We're like, Hey, you know, we're all trying to improve the city here. Like what was the worst thing you did run out the white supremacists? Like.

Speaker: Yeah, bitch, bitch. You know what? I get it. Bitch kind of an issue. Understand that. But everybody else like fuck off. Like, yeah, this is the same problem I have with weld showing up and being like, Hey, travelers, I know it wasn't you. And it's clearly a problem that we need to deal with. And we're all tired because we just fought the end bringers, but I need to arrest you and bring you in for questioning. And they're like, dude, like fuck off for a second. And Piget is just that on steroids. Therein lies one of the main struggles of worm. Is this, is who's right? Who's wrong? Who deserves power? It is not Piget. It's not Thomas Calvert either. Yeah. Very easily, you know, answered questions. It's not her. Let's start there.

Speaker: Also, she does whip out, you know, Lisa's real name. Oh, oh that's right. Oh, that's right. I forgot. but Yeah, just forget about it. And it's even better because she's like, how do you know that? Like the same way, you know, everything like I bought it. Even whips out the info about her parents to like. I think they're still looking for you. know Gosh, that's ruthless.

Speaker: But yeah, at at the same time though, I kind of do get it. I mean, as somebody who's responsible for the city, for the heroes. I mean, again, it's not to the no bug level where they're just like, you know what? Screw Rockton Bay. Let's just let the undersiders have it. There's still people there who are worth saving in their mind. And yes, the undersiders are helping, but as she implies, she says, look, you're not doing any of this for free. And I know that and you know that even if you don't want to admit it to yourself, you're doing this so that somebody can take control and own the city. Whether or not.

Speaker: You know, what, you know, no matter what happens, like this is not, don't pretend like you're, you're really in the mood of charity. The problem is we're in, the problem is that we're in skitter's head and skitter does still feel like a good guy. She does still feel like a good person. I think the other undersiders probably get it better to where they're like, yeah, I know we're bad guys. We get that. Yeah. Yeah. I think you're right. I think this is one of those, my issue with this is like, I think that Thomas Calvert has the correct approach on the big scale, which is let the villains divide up and take care, like actually take care of their section of the city, sort of run up all the other bad guys out. So it's just them. We have a somewhat, you know, stable city, and then you just weed out beat bad guy by bad guy who's left.

Speaker: Like with the, with it the heroes, all, you know, what's her fit. All pig had to do was the same plan. Let those villains do their thing. Well, you consolidate power. Things are up and running. Those guys don't want any more villains, you know, encroaching on their territory. So you just, you know, you build up the city a little bit and then you go in, you take out those what five heroes. Cause the travelers are like on their way out, like, You mean five villains, five villains. Sorry. Yeah. Like coil has the right idea and it would have been a perfectly fine if pig, it just did it. But you know, she's dumb and stubborn, like a mule. I see what you're saying. Yeah. She's a lot of things to a lot of people, Hannah.

Speaker: A lot of things to you. yeah I got a lot of feelings. But they're on a time ah timeline here. They've got to go around a time ah time crunch. Time crunch. Yeah, time crunch. There we go. On a time crunch, they got to go help bitch. 21 hours, I think, is what Coyle said, to take care of the situation. Yeah. And things are falling apart. So yeah dragon's still out there. I think we got yeah next couple chapters you want to group up. Yeah. Yeah. So that leads us into a chapter four, the under setters head towards the train yard where bitch is to help. Um, bitch is fighting this like rebuilding immortal dragon robot, which is really obnoxious. Uh, and they all just run away because there's not really a good way to defeat it.

Speaker: Uh, chapter five, Taylor realizes dragon specialty takes a detour through the mall and get caught, gets caught by one of the dragons and then tricks her way free by utilizing what she knows about the AI, uh, to kind of trap this, uh, little dragon into a piggy situation and, and then dragon retreats. And I'll stop there. Okay. finish up the deal with the old dragon. This is Azazel, right? Is the suit they fight? Yes, Azazel, I think. Wait, it's the one at the train yard? Not the one at the train yard. Train yard's Melusina. Oh, you're right, you're right. Then, yeah, okay. Yeah. Yeah, I love that all the different suits, they're called suits, but they're all AI. Once again, I imagine a lot of them look like Zoids. What?

Speaker: The animal, ah you type in Zoid, you'll understand. No, no, you, you cut out. We didn't hear what you said. Oh, I said they all look like Zoids. Zoids. Do we want to play guess that suit now as we're moving into the dragon section? you might as well so So there's a bunch of fun names thrown out for all of these suits. I believe we have one, two, three, four, ah a six, seven suits, seven suits, but eight fun names. So, uh, I knew about half of these and I had to look up, uh, three of them because they they're all dragon references, right? yeah i would Yes. Yes. So, um, starting with.

Speaker: the Cawthorn. I had no idea about this, but it's a town in England famous for having a dragon in the well. oh yeah that one Yeah, I did not know that one. And no i had no idea ah david yeah and that is our foam dispenser one. I'm just going to guess that's a general like Pulling water from the well, foam from the robot. I like that's the best. No, no, no, I like it. I like it. That works. That's good. Yeah. All right. We have Glowrung. Now this one. What is Glowrung from? I feel like I should know what that's from. You and Jacob specifically should know what this is from. I was going to say, give him a second to to think about it. I might not know a lot about this lore. Not as much near as much as I want to. i But because i mean that I knew this.

Speaker: It sounds middle earthy, but I can't throw onto something. Yeah. It does sound like Elvish. Is it the dragon in Beowulf? No dragon. What was the name again? One more time. Wow. Yeah. It's Lord of the Rings, right? It is Lord of the Rings. It's going to say it sounds, it sounds very token, but I can't, I can't place it. A few Lord of the Rings. Is it a sword? No, you think of glam drink, the faux hammer. No, I know glam. Ork Cleaver.

Speaker: Okay, go ahead. What is it? Glaurong is the father of dragons. It's the first dragon. Oh, it is the first dragon, as we all know, which is why it's the drone deploying robot. Oh, I like that. Yeah, that's clever. Yeah. As we, as we all know, all because Colin probably worked on this with dragon fucking nerds. No wonder they got bullied so hard. Colin got bullied so hard, he had to change his name and move to a different city. and sorry We have Leiden, which is, as we all know, the Greek 100 headed serpent, ah the Torment Atlas, and Garst the Golden Apples, ah which is why it's it probably - I actually didn't know about that. Wait. Yes, you did. Yeah, see? See, you're becoming a nerd.

Speaker: You nerd, you nerdy nerd. Everybody nerd, nerd, nerd third nerd. And that's probably why it's the force field dragon, um is my guess. Pithios, which I did not know, um and I actually had a hard time looking this up, but I'm guessing at best it's a version of Python, which is ah the Greek serpent that guards the center of the earth. Okay. Um, I was going to say this is definitely a Greek reference based on. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but you know, Pithios Python somewhere in there. Uh, and I'm guessing that's the wheel. Um, which I still have a hard time figuring out the whole wheel thing, other than I think it sucks organic ma matter or maybe like something like that.

Speaker: people with passengers towards it specifically. who ah Just some sort of goofy ass shit. Yeah, some real goofy ass shit. ah Which brings us to Nidug. it talk I've heard of before and I and I'm really trying to remember where it's from. Yes, I'm guessing that also a ah variation of that would be Nidhogg, which is yeah, that might be what I'm thinking of. Honestly, next you would know that as the super powerful bow from the Fire Emblem games, of course. Yes, um yes, absolutely. But it's like a Norse thing, isn't it? ah It is a Norse thing, Michael. Very good. Nidhogg is ah the

Speaker: serpent that eats at Yggdrasil's roots. I often confuse it for Jormungandr, which is the world serpent. Yeah. The one that goes around. the yeah Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So different, different one. This is the the one that eats at Yggdrasil's roots as opposed to wrapping around the world. So a much smaller scale one. um um Also a very fun two player ah sword fighting game. You get the chance by the first one, maybe not the second one. Uh, Pithios Pithios is the another name for the Greek deity Apollo. Okay. Like we'll chariot across Apollo. Apollo slew the serpent. You know, do you fight Python? yeah ah Yeah. Okay. Okay. okay I can vibe with that. yeah he find Makes sense with the wheel, the chariot, he rides his chariot and that's the sun. There you go. And this thing. Okay. Uh, Astoroth.

Speaker: um Which I know, we're all thinking Soul Caliber. But that's also a biblical reference, right? ah Not quite. ah it It is definitely, um we'll say extra canonical. yeah I don't remember exactly which book, but um somewhere and probably I'll say Babylonian. It's the brew lord. Uh, he's one of the great Duke of hell and the first hi one of the art club and Lucifer. Yep. Well, part of the unholy Trinity. Yeah. The evil Trinity. Yeah. Yeah. I got my book of angels right here. Uh, and that is the, oh, I forgot to say nidug is the jumbo liner that they fly around in by the way. Nice. Um, Astoroth is, uh,

Speaker: Oh, because that's the, what is that? The Nidhogg -Astroth is one thing. I believe. Oh yeah. What if Nidhogg and Astroth were separate? No, no, no. There's one of them that has a double name. I'm pretty sure it's the Nidhogg -Astroth and that is the Jumbo Liner. That's a mix of two that they use for flying around. And um we don't, I don't think we actually encounter that one because Dragon and Colin are using that in one of the interludes. Oh yeah. Okay. Uh, we get to the Melusinae, which does anybody know anything about that? Cause I haven't written down. I just, ah this was one that was in the weeds. It sounds Greek, Melusinae. Yeah. so Um, it's actually English. Um, a little bit older than the Cawthorn thing, but same vein. It's a half dragon water spirit. Uh, you know, also half woman that can like reside in a well or body of water and does stuff. Um, but that one has depicted with snake like features.

Speaker: Yes. Yes. Uh, so that's the one that's forging the pieces, uh, within itself and like reincarnating or whatever at the train yard. Yeah. I don't really get the connection there necessarily. Um, yeah. Yeah. Well, she turns into a dragon. That's, I mean, yeah, it is a dragon. You know, you can't, you can't win them all. Uh, and finally, of course, the Azazel, which Um, is supposed to be the super anti slaughterhouse nine, one, I believe. Is that the one that has the, uh, the weird like Tracy lines that, um, cages with the nano tech barbed wire or whatever it's called. Yeah. Yep. Um, and that one is, uh, in, is actually in the Bible. It's where the scapegoat goes when you have the two.

Speaker: You know, the two lambs, one goes to God and one gets, you know, all the sins of the people are put on it and it gets set loose into the wilderness. did hell Yeah. The wilderness is called Azazel. Uh, you know, forgotten a God, get the fuck out of here. Like, um, and yeah, or if you, if you look up in, you know, some Enochian literature, the book of Enoch has that he taught men, uh, warfare and how to make weapons. So it makes sense that like. That's the one that's coming to kick the slaughterhouse nine's ass. I'm here for it. I like it. Thanks. Thanks, Alan. It is kind of the idea of like, they're putting all of their resources into this one big one. So kind of like all the sins go to that. In a sense, I could say, yeah, it's a bit interesting because that is a pre -flood angel teaching them all that. And it sort of brings about the flood, but you know,

Speaker: As a parallel to this one, we've already had our Leviathan flood and now we're learning about warfare. Okay. All right. You know, like I said, you can't win them all. That's good. That a fun, fun segment by by proxy dragon, just on it with these names. Yeah, it's just fun. I love his name, his name choices. Um, I feel like it's been a while since we've done some real exploring into names because most of the ones have been. pretty upfront, I think. True. ah And this was a fun one to dive into because I was like, I know all these nerdy ones. And then I looked them up and I was like, I don't know some of these. What the heck is a cough or?

Speaker: yeah I'm just imagining. We need a scene... Cut to Dissecting Worm podcast. We need a scene, obviously, where we cut over to them working on suits and dragons like, you know, AI, plugging in, building all these suits, and Armsmaster, Defiant, sorry. Defiant's just in the corner on the laptop going like, coolest dragon names. yes so ah Doing like a little wiki search. yeah Spinning in a spinny chair. just like yeah yeah have you Fingers are still steepled. Have we considered smaug? Yeah, exactly. Fucking nerd. It's my yug. My yug.

Speaker: Anyways, yeah. This is a cool robot. It's a cool robot. It is. Too many dragons. Too many dragons. Too many dragons. Too many dragons. Too many dragons. I think Taylor says is it's a it's a good ah ah robot to go up against bitch. like Bitch isn't going to walk away from a fight. And to have a robot that's whole thing is its whole shtick is that it doesn't die. It just keeps remaking itself.

Speaker: is like but Bitch will never just run. She will always stay. And as long as she stays, she will never win. And so it like, it takes Taylor convincing her that like, well, think about it as wins and losses. Like you've had seven wins. So like, let's just take the one loss and run for it. It's just, it's, I don't know, it's tactics on Dragon's part, but like it's good tactics. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. it It is very funny to imagine too, just the, just that whole interaction of just won't die. We keep fighting and it won't die. And I can imagine bitches henchmen like, can we, can we go? And she's like, no, no, we have to kill it. i turn you When it picks up the railroad, the the the rail pieces.

Speaker: And just like folds it into itself. Like, okay. I think we're dealing with something a little, cause Taylor, like her first thing that she thinks when she comes up is like, how have they not killed this thing yet? And then it like swallows a bunch of railroad pieces and she's like, Oh, yeah. I do love to just the, uh, the density of Taylor for a moment where she's like, my bugs are inside of it and it's incredibly hot. And I'm like, yeah, you think? Literally forging a new body every five minutes. It might be a tad warm.

Speaker: Her phone's never gotten hot just sitting in her lap, doing nothing. You've been scrolling for TikTok just a little bit too long. You realize that every app on your phone is open. You're like, why is my phone so hot? yeah Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Also, once again, reminded that we, we ran out the slaughterhouse nine in less than a week. Like, I was two weeks ago they when they announced that they were in town and they ran them out in less than a week. yeah Pretty crazy. Wow.

Speaker: Yeah, that's yeah. Well, um, still kind of a fun fight though. Um, I really like again, Taylor just knowing people so well. She's like, come on, you've beaten it seven times. You've lost once you have a winning ratio. Let's move. And so they do. Um, but then getting into the mall fight with, uh, Azazel and back at the mall. Yeah. Back at that, that damn character. Yeah. Um, Yeah. Uh, just that the way that Taylor tricks Azazel is just brilliant and hilarious to me with first even just kind of testing it for her to say, I'm going to fall into the, you know, into the nano blades. She quickly realizes, Oh, this thing has a setting to not kill us. I can use that to my advantage.

Speaker: Yeah, right. Well, let's, let's also start with the first one. The first way she tries to outsmart it, which is this statement is false, a classic. And it just goes, I'm going to go with no GIGI solving paradoxes was the first thing I learned. yes That's so funny. It flips a coin, looks at it. Yeah, I'm going to go with. False. Yeah. But they do trick it. Yeah. I think there's just ah not much more to say except yeah yeah good job. Good job. Taylor. You did it. You shouldn't fight the robot and tried they'll never be human. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, this is why, um, this reminds me too. Have you seen the thing where it was a meme where you could get around

Speaker: So chat GPT has this thing where it tries to prevent you from you know asking it questions on illegal activity. But somebody found a workaround where if you basically ask it to help you hide drugs, but you don't use the word drugs, you use substance instead. or something like that, then it gives you a very detailed way to hide drugs and different methods for like sneaking it on the airplanes and stuff. Oh God. Oh my gosh. That's basically what Taylor does here. She's like, you know, Azazel's like, I don't think Emp is here. or My sensors aren't detecting her. And she's like, no, no, no. She had a second trigger event. How would you know if she didn't? And the robot's just like, oh shit. Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah, it's it's just fun. It's this feels like Taylor really flexing her mental powers. And I know we haven't talked a lot about that, but it seems like maybe she has some mental powers too that come along with, um, come along with her bug powers. And I think even that pamphlet that her dad had ah but ah well a while back ago mentioned that they suspected she had thinker powers. or something like that. it it's it she She suspects that she has some kind of subtle thinker power that allows her to essentially multitask at an infinitely complex scale. She can control ah millions of bugs simultaneously and direct them individually if she chooses. So like she and she's she's got some type of

Speaker: thinker power there. And it would make sense that like a byproduct of just being able to do that is probably like being able to think pretty quickly. And and so it makes sense that sheat that she's able to sort of come up with this these sort of tricks and workarounds and and think herself out of problems ah fairly quickly. It's sort of just a natural byproduct of her power, which is kind of neat. You're smarter than me. That's for damn sure. Sometimes she just does stuff and I'm like, I don't even know. it I mean, it just goes to show how smart Wild Bo is to write characters that are so good at parsing out these kinds of issues and the problems. It's like, man, oh yeah I can't write like that because I'm not that smart. Like writing complex things like that as a chore. It's pretty awesome. It's almost like it's his full -time job. Unbelievable.

Speaker: I love how Alan got quiet because he's like, how do I talk about this without spoiling everything? No, no, I'm just trying to figure out how to get, and you know, one of the AIs to that like how to work around this thing. And unfortunately it's it's beating me right now. Alan's about to get a FBI call. Oh, 100%. Oh no. Nick, what have you done? i

Speaker: Well, Alan, I've enjoyed having you on the podcast. This was my ruse to get rid of you. Oh, he's coiled me. No, Alan, we do that later. Oh, yeah no. I mean, speaking of coiling each other, Chapter six, Taylor and Brian. oh OK, can we go back for a second before we coil some more? Oh, no. I just want to mention briefly the, uh, when they were like, man, we, we can't use the glass to get people around or can we cut to a magic carpet, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah um door I just thought, I thought it was a fun creative way to get around, but that's all I can think of. It's like they're on a magic carpet. Yeah. I thought it was more like tobogganing, like sledding through the city on glass.

Speaker: yeah Yeah. Uh, chapter six. All right. Uh, the group had separate ways. Taylor goes to check on our people, make sure that everybody got their food and their pork shoulder, whatever. Uh, Brian and her have a little heart to heart and snuggle up into bed together. Oh, is that what they did? You know, like they did something in the dark. Nick, I'm going to tell you straight up right now. But the first time I read this, I glazed over this so hard. but like i I was like, ah, and then they they slept together. like Literally, they they fell asleep. She got the lights, and then they went, because they were soed they were so tuckered out from everything. We were so tuckered out.

Speaker: i Yeah. and Because, you know, me with a combination of autism and being like way too innocent about this kind of stuff, just glazed so hard over this. And now I'm like, Oh, education trained to not see sex at every turn. Yeah, man. I like, it's a mind cucking, if you will. Like I am cock blocking even in my head, like just a self sensor bar constantly running. Um,

Speaker: Just funny, you know, cause it's just, it was, that I didn't, I didn't remember that. I didn't remember that. I was like, Oh wow. They, they hooked up. um Okay. Good. Good for them. Yeah. Okay. So the thing though is, is that they, it's okay. So technically while though, never says that they hook up, Taylor is just like clearly kind of use such crude language. like now well these are chi She's clearly nakey and she's like, got the sheet wraped around her later and whatnot. But like, there's no mention of like,

Speaker: Sex having happened. It's heavily implied, but yeah. Yeah, but it also could have been like, I don't know. Google. I don't know what you're letting me know. Ryan and Taylor. It's the same way that, you know, me and my wife, we have two kids, you just lay in bed naked together and then suddenly you have kids. Is that how it happened? That works. Yeah. Oh, okay. That's how my parents told me it happened. You have to turn out the light first though. Yes. Turn off the light. You have to do it lay under the covers together and and then babies happen. but It's, you know, truly a mystery. Oh God.

Speaker: thank But no, um, it's, it's a, it's a weirdly sweet scene between them in the midst of a very chaotic arc. It feels like, um, um yeah, but we've talked about it before. Reading this the second time through, I feel more that Brian and Taylor are actually a bad couple at first. I think I kind of thought, you know, they're a good couple. They're good for each other. They both have their shared trauma and all of that.

Speaker: But I think that's reading it the second time and as a older person, slightly older person, um, you know, in the what six years of wisdom I've gained since then. Um, but it, it, I don't know. It comes across a lot more. Yes. Uh, it comes across a lot more unhealthy than it did first time. And I think part of it is you're kind of wowed by the action. So you miss the interpersonal stuff the first time you read worm. So coming back to this, I was like, uh, This feels icky. And it's mostly Brian. And well, no, it's both. It's both of them. it's both They both feel a bit icky. It feels more like they're two people who've been through terrible things. They get thrown together by circumstances. They like each other. They're attracted to each other, but they're really just kind of using each other medicinally. yeah Yeah. In the sense of like, ah you know, we both feel bad and this feels good. So let's do something that feels good.

Speaker: And it just it feels a lot more unhealthy the second time around, I think. Yeah. Yeah. I 100 % agree. And I don't think that there's anything wrong if they were both like, yeah, we just need companionship and we just want that and that's it. like I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but clearly they both like want to have this relationship and it doesn't feel like it is trauma bonding. like in my young they're dumb yeah in there's there's so and and like and I think Taylor talks about it in the next chapter in chapter seven after the interlude, but like that just the the weird backward nature of their relationship, how they like had all of the you know the the big stuff happening and then it like backs up into the

Speaker: the the friendship and then, you know, now they're after having slept together, they're going to have their little like, Oh, what movies did you like growing up? Like it's, it just feels, I don't, I don't like it mostly because I don't ah like Taylor is so young. And I think i I just don't like the way that she sees Brian. It doesn't feel like she sees him all the way and like, Like she got clearly hours. Well, because it's too dark. I can't see anything. No, but like even her asking to turn out the light is like, if you're not comfortable enough to like, I don't know, be in your skin. Like maybe you shouldn't fuck like, like, I can i kind of get that one actually.

Speaker: to be in the dark. i guess I don't know. I guess I and just don't think it's a cumulative effect. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah It's no, it's, it's the addition of a lot. Um, yeah that's what, what's been going on in the previous arcs too. Right. With. their relationship and how it's developed over time. I don't know. It's, um, especially, yeah, considering b Brian's interlude as well. Like we don't get a ton of his perspective throughout any of this. We get his initial rejection of Taylor several chapters, arcs ago. He's like, Hey, listen, I just don't really see you like that. I hope we can stay friends, yada, yada. Then we get his post ah traumatic experience interlude a second where event Taylor is, is

Speaker: a comfort, but that's really all she is. Like it's, he's using her, not in like, oh, he's using her, but like he, she's just, it's not a, it's not a, it's not a romantic connection. It's, it's just, how about yeah, exactly. It really is is what it is. We used to work at, you know, camps or if anybody's ever, you know, been something that's an intense short amount of time, whether it's a camp or, you know, going to the summer fling concept. That, that, that just in it as a whole, or, you know, the first two weeks of a college freshmen experience, like you're going through a lot with other people. And, you know, there's this intense, deep bonding, uh, and like close proximity being a major part of it. And like a very quick dive into like, I'll say intimacy in the sense of like playing, and you know, get to know you games, essentially.

Speaker: And, and, you know, bonding through shared experience. And in this case, it is like you said, it's trauma bonding and they're literally like the only people that they're kind of remotely interested in and near at all during this time. Like, yeah and they don't even seem now as much that much into each other, but it's just like, Oh, they're conveniently nearby. Yeah. And like, which I've seen this, you know, live and in person. I don't know how many times by people it's like, Oh no, we should be a couple. I'm like, no, you two aren't good for each other. You're not even like good for you two to be around each other. Like you just have these odd moments of rest where you both rest together and you're like, Oh, we're both exhausted. And.

Speaker: We're both dealing with the same problems, generally speaking. Therefore, that must mean we're meant to be together. That's like, no, you just both are near each other. and find each other moderately attractive. And you're teenagers and you so you're super fucking horny. yeah like Yeah. Which is the other thing. these people ah These people don't even feel like they felt horny a little bit before. Like at this point in time, they don't even feel that horny. They kind of feel like

Speaker: Like the feeling of like, Oh, I guess this is what we'll do. Like it even feels no thing. yeah Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which, which, you know, we talk about this kind of continuously, you know, this is, I'm assuming this is on purpose, you know, while I was writing, like Taylor gets what she wants. She gets down kiss and then cuddle with Brian in the interlude and she hates it. or Like, like, she's like, great. I got what I want. Like, like you know, got what I wanted. Doesn't feel good. Like. It's, it's whatever. And then we get to this and they even talk about after it's like, it wasn't great. Like it just, it happened. Yeah. And I get the sense for Taylor too. Yeah. I don't know. I get the sense too. This is Taylor's first time. I guess, I guess it probably is, but it didn't feel, it wasn't feel like it, but also at the same time. so like

Speaker: And I mean, she's been bullied pretty hard for the past bit and like she's really only had Emma in her life So like who else is this 15 year old fuck? Yeah, like I don't I I see this as it being probably a first time way to sign my language but like I just I don't it's just ah like Like ah sure a first time is like super hockey like super awkward especially in your teenager and you don't know how your limbs fucking work like it makes sense, but ah Just I don't

Speaker: I also just got, I got the sense reading it too, especially with the whole like, you know, PG 13 fade to black. That it just probably wasn't something Wild Bo was too interested in writing too much detail on, which is fine. If anything, this form not a plot. As a plot point, you don't need it. You don't need it on page. And the truth is is that it does everything it needs to do without any sort of detail. So like right right it's it's fine written the way it is. We get everything that we're... But just in terms of reading into those like, oh, is it our first time? All that kind of... Probably doesn't... This doesn't matter.

Speaker: Really, because it doesn't doesn't change their dynamic, ah which is their bad dynamic. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. The kind of thing that the Netflix adaptation would spend way too long on. Oh, don't even get me started. yeah let's not Hey, as my note for you guys doing dissecting where I'm, don't, don't, don't do it. um you Don't, don't do it. Here's the thing. I read plenty of smut books and ah while I'm never opposed to like a nice smut scene, this is not that like, this is not. Yeah. I'll tell you right, right away. My, my suggestion for this is they go to start doing something and then they end up just falling asleep on the bed.

Speaker: Like, like they go to like, oh yeah, let's let me get you out of that. And then like, she turns over and he's like asleep in the pillow and she's like, yeah, yeah why like feel her but feels his hand fall off. The zipper is a zipping down her costume. A slow snore comes from his line. Right. Right. I think Hannah, you should join us. But it's still dark. It's still pitch black dark. His power is still on. It's fine. She's just like, oh no. It's okay. She can't see so she can't like, she doesn't know where to put her glasses and like, she's like scrambling around in the, in the cloud. And that's, that's the only reason she's naked is because she just had to take off her costume and couldn't find anything else.

Speaker: He's like I don't want I don't want this flavor to seal in but I'm not getting out of bed to try to find anything else you know and shower until the next so That's my that's my head cannon for right now It's good Also, maybe it's because I'm 30. I just don't want teenagers to have sex. I just don't like it. Your brain's not developed. Are we the boomers now? Yes, I agree with you. I agree with you now. It's one of those things where in principle, I'm like... You do you, just be safe.

Speaker: Yeah. Do you, do you just be safe? Yada, yada. You know, some good ethical boundaries and whatnot. But then I look at teenagers cause I got brothers and I'm like, y 'all shouldn't be fucking for like another 10 years. first yeah slow um if If you knew what a sex was like, like, you know, I think it's bad now. Just, uh, wait until if you ever, you know, ended up having kids. Yeah, no. And it's just like. No. Perish the thought. And it's just like, oh no. I'm going to have to talk to these little humans about this process at some point. That is not, you know, look, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. That bridge is, is the Boston Baltimore bridge, whatever the one that just fell down. You can be like my parents and just don't. Just hand them a book and be like, hey, look, this is, this is the stick in the hole. My sister still has not gotten a book.

Speaker: Here's the stick in the hole. She got married and didn't have the top. We've come full circle or should we say full stick in hole.

Speaker: What a great Great transition into our second interlude. Yeah. Yeah. Keep going. Please take it away. Our second interlude, Defiant is following up on the Slaughterhouse's nine trail investigating a hospital attack where they have ah ah really just decimated. uh, a hospital, a small town hospital, um, talks between himself and dragon, um, and just trying to track down the slaughterhouse nine. And he discovers while he's kind of futzing around in her code that she, dragon is a para human. She has gone through some form of, of trigger event and is a tinker. Um, but right on the end of that little bit of news, uh, dragon mentions that.

Speaker: She needs to tell him about Cauldron. And ah we end on this lovely little cliffhanger. cliffhankerish oh gosh I would love to see more of a defiant and dragon interludes because. Oh, that's so their dynamic is so interesting. Nick, as an artist or anybody listening, what I would like from you is a three panel comic of just dragon and defiant, like just chit chatting while they're working. That's, that's all I want. Just them being a couple of nerds where like one of them says something and then the other says something and the other looks up and just is like, what? You know, just three panel comics of that. I think it would be great. I think they have great chemistry. Yeah. it It's a vibe, you know, it's one of those moments where you're like, Oh no, the character you hate is kind of relatable.

Speaker: Yeah, cause yeah, I don't like, you know, none of us really like defiant or arms master and yet I speak for yourself. and yeah do know That's what I'm saying though is like, and like up until this point, we still kind of hate arms master. And of course he's still a douche. We know that, but like this arc and his conversation with defiant and Even though he's going weird psycho cyborg version of himself, he legitimately wants to stop the worst kinds of villains and he's doing everything in his power to stop them. Right. Granted it's for a self -serving, but again, it's like, is that going back and forth of like, is he stopping them for self -serving reasons or because it's a good thing to do. But now that the other dynamic, I agree, Alan, that dynamic is just such a good one. Um, this is a fun arc, fun interlude rather.

Speaker: it It feels like it feels like there is a difference though between Defiant and Armsmaster that Armsmaster was very like cocky and self -assured and you know in the way that he talked to Taylor is like very different from the Defiant now that seems a lot more self -introspective I think probably because of his interaction with ah Mannequin and everything that happened and like He's kind of had to self analyze quite a bit after all of that. But like I, I, I much prefer the, this defiant version. Like he mentions that, yeah you know, he was probably too harsh on Taylor and that like, maybe what he did yeah caused, you know, had repercussions and what she ended up becoming. Like, I think I, I, I like this defiant that we're seeing now as opposed to the arms master that we knew from the beginning of the story. I i do love though that he takes human sensitivity training from the AI.

Speaker: Yeah, I love that. His conversation with the sheriff where he's like describing what's happening and going into grisly detail about how Hookwolf killed all of her people. Dragon's just like, chill. yeah She doesn't need to know that. She doesn't need to know that. Yeah, I love that. It's it's it makes Dragon seem so much more real that she's more aware of like people's emotional state than he is. Mm hmm. Well, I mean, it's part of the whole like dragon feels more human than so many of the other characters that we interact with. And it's yeah, just that's what makes her such a great character is that

Speaker: ah she She does embody humanity so well, like the best bits of humanity. And it's like this little shining little beacon of hope that the reader has, which is hilarious because she's not human. She's a robot and yet seems to be the best of us kind of thing. It's kind of funny. Yeah.

Speaker: I don't think there was too much more in that interlude, ah specifically, unless anyone can think of something. um it's good It's a great little, oddly enough, a kind of slice of life thing for you there, Alan. We get a little day in the life of - And I enjoyed it. A lot. the The big takeaway from this is that the Slaughterhouse Nine does exist still. They are recruiting. The Wolf went willingly and they have another new member whose name escapes me. amsel insurance Damsel of Distress. Damsel of Distress. I'm pretty sure she's irrelevant though. Nick, I want you to hold your tongue. I want you to hold your tongue. Well, no, she seems kind of irrelevant. But I do like her name very much. Don't you dare put on damsel like that. I mean, as such, who does not remember her at all. I have admitted that when it comes to worm, I have essentially worm -en -chia. Yeah, worm -en -chia. But I do not recall her characters. Yeah, no, not quite. Ever be named again. Even a little bit.

Speaker: Well, then the name damsel of distress kind of sounds sort of familiar, but I don't, I don't know if that's just because the phrase like damsel in distress. Like, I i have no clue. I just, I love the name. I think it's great. Especially if you're going to be a villain damsel. If I'm wrong. If I'm wrong. Feel free to you know post it in the comments and say why I'm wrong. No spoilers though. No spoilers. No spoilers. Just say you're wrong. She does get mentioned. Dick is wrong. Yeah. Just write that in five separate comments, then don't forget to like and subscribe. I love it.

Speaker: Uh, okay. Let's, let's head on. Um, I think the best way to do this is I'm just going to group the whole, um, incident, the next incident together. Um, so that's, uh, chapter seven, Taylor and Brian say goodbye to each other in the morning and Taylor heads over to her dad's house, meets up with him and his friends and then heads over to the mayoral candidate debate, uh, chapter eight. Oil and his minions attack the debate with circus uber and leet the wards come in to save the day but unfortunately a bomb goes off throwing the debate into chaos and killing coil along with quite a few others.

Speaker: ah Chapter nine, Taylor awakens ah blinded by the bomb, but uses her bugs to see ah is taken care of, patched up, taken to the hospital. Lisa comes to see her and they make the realization that Coyle is actually Thomas Calvert. um and um I'm going to stop there. Yeah, good stopping point. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we got holy shit Alan, we get, uh, we get another slice of life chapter for you real quick. We get to talk to, uh, and I love it. It's talked to Danny's friends. really fun Yeah. Danny's Danny's got some interesting friends. It does. I don't know it necessarily if I, you know, that there's not a whole lot to like or dislike, but I found, I, I, I thought that very much ah seems very like sweet and soft with them, even though they're all kind of like a little bit harsher.

Speaker: ah Yeah, they got that classic like blue collar vibe. And even though he he is also technically a blue collar worker, like he doesn't give off that vibe because he's this, you know, glasses wearing kind of skinny and tall. Well, he's also like the the supervisor kind of figure too, right? Yeah. Um, I don't know. He reminded me a lot. Uh, my dad was in a lot of bands when I was a kid and still is. Um, and he, this like gathering of people just chilling out, drinking beer, you know, shooting the shit as they say that it it reminds me of a lot of those gatherings where

Speaker: you know, there'd be this, these really nice adults who, you know, looking back, I'm like, Oh, it's kind of weird that, you know, they were smoking and drinking with me in the room, but you know, they're all really nice to me. yeah Um, in a yeah yeah, they're just doing their thing, chilling, being cool. Um, I don't think they were actually smoking in the room with me, but drinking. Yes. Um, but it's just, I don't know this, it's a very just average person vibe. And I do really like this. in contrast to how few average people we really get to see. yeah yeah Very nice little scene. It's just nice. It warms my heart that Danny isn't just alone. you know taylor Taylor, you're not the only person who is worried about that man. just ah I'm so glad Danny has friends. yeah Danny has friends. you know Taylor, let's let's think about that. Let's look at our friends. See who we're hanging out with. Look at the decisions we've made.

Speaker: Yeah. Gosh. Also, she forgot it was her birthday. Yeah, she's 16 now. Gosh. I mean, she was kind of in the middle of things. i could as shine but She does little, she's like, oh, that was right when they were attacking everybody and bombs were going off, I guess. Kind of just missed the old birthday, but yeah understandable. Understandable. Like granted as somebody who hates birthdays and, you know, and, and forgot how old I was from about the age of 21 to like 29. Uh, it's still hurt to, to read this, to be like, Oh, like, yeah, yeah like you forget, like you missed your birthday. Like, cause, cause there's one thing to being like, I don't keep track of it. It's another thing to be like, I do. And I forgot that I was like a week ago. Like, yeah right yeah that feels like you lost it rather than like intentionally just don't think about it. Yeah. Also like.

Speaker: 16 is kind of a big one. Like 16 is, is, you know, you're sweet 16 and you get your driver's license, at least in the US. s And like, it's just, it seems like ah an important birthday ah when it comes to a teenager, like, especially a teenage girl. Like, oh man, like she's done a lot, but she's still, she's still just a kid. Like it kind of wanted that for her. Also I was dead convinced that sweet 16 was something made up by MTV. Like but point one I like the concept of sweet 16. Yeah. Like why is that a big one age?

Speaker: Cause it sounds like the only, the only ones that matter are 18 and 21. That's it. No other image matters. probably not yeah Maybe Then you can order off the Denny super senior menu, but, uh, ah no, I mean, like, I think it's, I think it's kind of 16 is like the point where you're no longer like a young teenager. Like you're starting your, I don't know, your ascent. I don't know. It's the beginning of independence. Yeah, it feels like it's it was an important birthday. Like, yeah, I had a big, well, I didn't, i I mean, well, mine was weird, but my best friend had like a big, a big ball thing. Like they rented out this whole big space and she had this giant hoofy prom dress and.

Speaker: Yeah, it was a big deal. I think that's weird. A lot of cultures have, you know, like you've come of age. 16 is like for a lot of places, that's like the coming of age, a lot of cultures. So okay I guess it kind of makes sense. See, I'm okay with that as long as the 18th birthday isn't also Like a big thing. You get one. ah Yeah. 16 or 18. It's a surprise of no one. Alan hates excessive happiness. I guess. You should be a band on it. He just hates birthdays. I do just hate birthdays. That's true. i They were made up by Hallmark and to sell more cards and wrapping paper. And that's why it means all the more.

Speaker: It means all the more when you do stuff for my birthday, just so you know, it means a lot to me. You're a great partner. Good job, babe. I feel like Alan has the Ron Swanson approach where, you know, I don't want you to, nobody bother me for my birthday. The secretly whispers. What I really want is a series ofla meat in my slate favorite statehouse yeah carrie of I've leaned into the birthday party thing. Like I think celebrating with people is a lot of fun. You know, I just want my barbecue. and oh we all But you know, I just think there's like the autism in me.

Speaker: you know, just doesn't understand and fought my parents actively growing up when it came to like, what do you want to do for your sweet 16? And I'm like, that's a made up thing. You made that up. And they were like, no, lots of people do it. I'm like, well, I've never been to a sweet 16, so fuck off. like

Speaker: Well, speaking of ah barbecues, we have one when a bomb is queued. I tried so hard there. yeah no that was I mean, honestly, it sounds like something Leet would do, both the joke and the bomb. Lee definitely made a joke, but that was, it was a joke that was like where the punchline was caught off with the explosion. So nobody heard it. Yeah. You know, shot halfway through it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Man, what a intense thing we get here. Man, we forgot about the Cherish Mine in the water still. It's like, man, some people get suicidally depressive if they're a mile within the bay. Yeah, they go near the docks and just want to die. like can like yeah And the guys like, trust me, I've been, I'm like,

Speaker: Jeez. Bro saying horrifying. gee just Yeah. So this, this is again, one of those moments where the tension is so well written where I just love the realization Taylor goes. She's had the debate. She's trying to have a normal day and the realization because she can feel out with her bugs. No coil is here oh and her desperately, you know, she makes the message. I'm here. Stop. He waves it away. The tension of what's going to happen and just the realization of everything that happened.

Speaker: It's crazy. I just, yeah, the tension in that scene was palpable. That was one of those arc or one of those chapters where I just felt like I need to know what happens next because I am dying inside. absolutely Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, I have questions about this plan because, you know, first time I read this entire sequence from starting here to the end of this arc, I, it was a blur. I'll be honest, it felt like I retained nothing and I kept having to reread pages. Um, cause it goes on for a while, uh, longer than I feel it should for one arc. Um, I don't know what the choice there was, but man, I just want some explanations as to what the hell Thomas thought he was up to. Cause that is a stupid plan. The bomb.

Speaker: everything. So it was, like it was, it was, if I understand correctly, there was a few parts to it. So it's, it's doing a few things. One, it's further undermining Higgott's role as director, which finally does get her the boot. ah Two, it solidifies because, of course, he's he basically controls all the candidates. So he gets to control the outcome of the election without it looking rigged because you have this whole explosion that went on. ah Three, it kills, quote unquote, coil. So he doesn't have to worry about that anymore.

Speaker: kind of takes care of that whole element. And of course, he's primed to take over a pig as spots. So he's head of the PRT. It's sort of just the culmination of everything he's been trying to do, which really Taylor and the undersiders haven't been too privy to the whole story. They've really only seen the coil side of things. So it's kind of cool getting to see his plan fall into place without knowing exactly what it is until kind of revealed later on. and

Speaker: here's I'll succinctly bring all of my issues to one point, which is coil blows up and then immediately Thomas Calvert is there. That's my problem. like were Well, what we find out is that Thomas Calvert isn't just suddenly there. He's been an advisor for the PRT for years. And it's just that he's put his real persona in just such the position that he can be ready to step in when Pigot inevitably takes the fall. Yeah, I just I don't buy

Speaker: the the thought outness of Coyle walking in and like, granted, you know, this is like a behind the scenes look from Taylor's point of view, but even outside of that, like he walks in and then almost accidentally gets blown up. Like, or, or blows himself up, essentially. Yeah, I was going to say, yeah, it's on purpose. It just feels like a goofy stage gimmick. Kinda like, well And maybe that's just because we see so much behind the scenes, but it just it it's another one of those things where the plan and the pacing of the story unravels so fast that i don't i there's not a moment to breathe or even pretend that Coyle is dead. like you know Maybe a paragraph and you're like, ah, maybe he died? No, he didn't. like

Speaker: It happened so fast. yeah I just I could have used. A chapter where we for where we thought he was dead maybe and have the death be a little more believable like. I don't know. and Well, I think part of it too. Part of the problem is we're dealing with people who've been close to coil. If we had been dealing with characters who hadn't been close to coil, I think it would have been appropriate to have that brief moment of, is he dead? Maybe he is actually. I don't like he, he's gone. but But because we're dealing with people who've been so close to coil and especially tattletale who just knows things, I feel like it would be more contrived if they had that break of really thinking he was dead.

Speaker: If that makes sense. Yeah. Like I get that. I just don't think even, even from Coyle's point of view, like knowing how the undersiders know stuff, you would think that he would pull off something that was convincing. Like, cause he's clearly trying to pull something, but even on the undersiders and travelers to like pretend like there's a facade there. Like you think it would be convincing and it's not at all. And and we end from a reading perspective, as I'm reading it, there's I feel like there should be a moment of like, did he kill himself? Like even if I got to questioning it, but I don't question it, he didn't kill himself because that would be dumb. Like it the setup is dumb. I just i have a lot of beef with this section. no I have a lot of beef with this arc as a whole. but

Speaker: I don't know I don't I don't know that I see it the same way because I don't think he's trying to trick the undersiders. I think that's why he's so dismissive when he realizes Taylor's there is that he doesn't really care because he knows she's going to figure it out anyway whether she's there or not. So I don't know if I really feel that same way just in the sense that. I think it's meant to be contrived because we know that he's had a plan in place we know this has been his big move the whole time this must have been. And so I don't know. I guess, I guess I just don't get the same feeling from this. Yeah. At this point too, he has already in one of his other timelines has already tortured an undersider and is, and is aware of what they're trying. So he's, he's beyond yeah having a use for the undersiders at this point too. So it's, it's just yeah like he doesn't need them involved. Anything like that. The fact that,

Speaker: the fact that Lisa's Lisa cues them in immediately and by extension the audience. But remember too that nobody else in Brockton Bay knows one, that coil has a power and two, how it works. The protectorate probably have some idea that he's got to be powered in some way, but for everybody else, he's just a well -funded gangster. So yeah any sort of death is going to be believable. Also, don't most people not know that the Undersiders work for Coyle? Right. He's remained very separate from them. Yeah, exactly. but Truthfully, we don't even know if the heroes know about Coyle other than like he's a white collar crime guy that's in the city unrelated to anything else. like

Speaker: Cause I think at one point they even talk about like, man, I think it's when welds getting the briefing, like, yeah, there was, he's kind of gone underground. Cause like, what the hell is a white collar criminal going to do in a. blown out sitting. Oh, and that was the other part of it too, was the fact that the explosion comes from kid win. So it it really looks like an accident from the side of the wards yeah that it this isn't this isn't a bomb that Coyle had planted. It was like, everybody get down, I'm going to blow everybody up. And then the bomb fails. like This was yeah an unintentional, quote unquote, of course, you know unintentional explosion from a ward, from one of the good guys that went awry.

Speaker: Yeah, that's sometimes i guess I get all that. That's something specifically said on the recording. You are free to be as wrong as you want to be, Alan.

Speaker: I love it. Yeah. I genuinely just think it's mostly because we do have the inside perspective. I imagine if I don't know who the focus character would be, but if for some reason clock blocker had been the protagonist, we'll say, I don't think we would have been as aware of knowing that coil wasn't dead, but yeah and it just it is it is certainly it it it certainly does. Well, I will admit this though. It does go down in the long list of needlessly complex villain plans.

Speaker: ah I will admit that I'm like, okay, Coyle, there's gotta to have been a better way for you to have accomplished your goals, man. like Yeah. coil this is like a Yeah. Here's the guy that took notes watching, uh, Megamind and was like, no school time. Like, okay, this is good. This is good. I like this. Okay. i Like, like, ah well, that's the thing is like, I don't disagree with what he's going for. Uh, you know, ruling the over city and the under city kind of at the same time, like,

Speaker: working its way into kind of cohesion and synthesis, but like, and, and, and even how he pulls it off of like killing off coils so we can take over as Thomas, like I'm with all that. Just the him bursting into the room, which for a lot of people is, you know, their first exposure to coil. It really does feel like a big blunder of like, aha, I'm coil. And, you know, and like I said, it's not like you said, it's not his fault that the bomb goes off. But even if I were kid, when, or somebody I'd look at that and go, did this motherfucker just walk in for a first appearance as a villain and die? Like that, like ah it would, it would be almost unbelievable. Like to anybody. I get it. Yeah. I get it. It's just, it, it felt goofy. Down right. Yeah. Um,

Speaker: um i'll give you i give I'll give you that. and It does. Yeah. It does have like big syndrome from the Incredibles energy. where I was trying to, I was going to go Incredibles, but I'm trying to think of one of the the villains that, that fucks up more than syndrome. Yep. It will go with bomb voyage. Like, like, you know, where they do something and they slip and they're like, Oh, oh and you know, something blows up in their face. Yeah. Like that's what it felt like. And, and, especially when Coyle, maybe that's the part of it. Coyle has been on top of his game this whole time. And, you know, for Wild Bo as a meta critique, like Wild Bo has been on top of his game when it comes to Coyle this whole time. And Coyle's been such a good villain for a variety of reasons. Part of which is, you know, he's got this ability that helps him plan out along with Dinah's ability, calculate things very well. Now,

Speaker: The excuse for anything in the worm universe is, oh, well, Dinah calculated that out. So, you know, the correct answer was, in fact, to serve salmon to the undersiders and then I become king. But, you know, ah but, you know, you could apply that to like, ah, and, you know, if I put on a clown hat in the next five minutes, does that, you know, up my chances of defeating the slaughterhouse nine. And Diana's like, sure. I guess it went up 3%. And he's like, aha, my clown hat. Like you can arrange any goofy excuse at that point. Um, and for him to be a serious, scary, well thought out character that makes calculated moves, this is a very elaborate short. It's maybe that's what it is. It's a very short term play. Um,

Speaker: When he is a long game player, this is, this is direct action on top of that. Like coil is a background player that could have very easily disappeared with, you know, I'm going to Boston, I'm going to Washington, I'm going to disappear and I'm, you know, going to make an appearance over there, but then I'm just going to like show up a week later as Thomas Calvert. And you know, it's a suit. Have somebody appear in the suit somewhere else, like in cover for you, you know, just to say, Oh, he was over in Washington and somebody shot him there. Like, and then Thomas Calvert is here at the same time. You know, they were never seen in this way. They were seen in the room kind of at the same time. Like, not as dramatic though. It's not as well. I will argue about drama. Like,

Speaker: It just, it, yeah. I have lots of excuses. If anybody's got a better, a better option, a better alternative to, to how he could have pulled this off, leave it in the comments. Yeah. Let us know. There we go. Or if you think Alan's wrong, please feel free to leave that in the comments too. Five comment minimum. Leave us a voice because they know I'm right. No. I get the feeling there's either I'm right or they're wrong. Those are the only two options.

Speaker: Anyway, we, uh, we'll move past the old, um, the old explosion. Taylor's blind, trying to find her way around. That's up with Lisa. Yeah. i' I'm not going to lie. I want Taylor to be blind for the rest of the series. I had this moment reading it where I was like, wait a minute. Cause she's talked about how she can still kind of quote, see with her bugs. I was like, yeah is this a thing? Does she have like vision problems the rest of the story? ah Like I was like trying to remember if this was a huge, oh retir out last but I'll tell you right now, I want her to be blind and we're going to see if that happens. Cause this is just the writing for it is so fun. And I love the fact that it like,

Speaker: Kind of she can't read faces. So she has to go on tone of voice and, you know, surprise, surprise. Taylor can't read faces on a regular day. That's true. She basically has face blindness already, you know, crippling setback where everybody just kind of looks like a bug to be manipulated by her. and That's not what I said, but, but it is what you meant. I understand.

Speaker: Uh, but they do re, uh, reconvene meet up with the travelers. Yeah. They ah they all do the, yeah. We're, we know, we know what's really going on here. And then they go to meet up with definitely not coil. Yeah. Yeah. That's chapter 10. I do love that, that line from the interaction between Alec and Thomas Calvert, where he's like, Oh, undersiders. Alec just goes, we know it's you boss. And he dismisses the guys and he's like, yeah, I would have hoped for a little bit more attacked there. region yeah so Nice job. you shit i'm man

Speaker: Yeah. Are we into the, sorry, do we do the summaries for these next kind next chapter? nine we Not yet. Cause I still have so many thoughts that we've moved past. Like we've just blazed past a ton of stuff. Taylor. All it takes for Taylor to feel good about the wards, like to have them in a positive light, is for them to do one thing right. That's all it took. Like they're at the thing, coil jumps in the ward, stand up and and they're like, ah, chariot. We knew what they freeze him. And she literally goes, dang, maybe they were on top of their game this whole time. Man, the good guys are so awesome. And I was like, wow, Taylor, that's all it would have took was one positive interaction with the wards, but the good guys like that's, that sucks that they failed that very like small hurdle, you know,

Speaker: boo on them for that, but is your bar also so low that that's all it took was one hug from someone and you're like, God, I haven't been hugged in forever. You know, yeah that's, yeah yeah, that's what it felt like. And then just, we, you know, we have the trickster conversation and I forgot like, you know, I know I hate Trickster from all the other times I've read this. I've always thought he was an asshat and I hate him and I don't know why anybody listens to a goddamn word he says. He's great. And this this, you know, I've been kind of vibing with Trickster, maybe because I've just been blinded by his powers, you know? He's been substituting out all these cool, you know, things that he's doing for the pack fact that he's a piece of shit.

Speaker: And then we have this interaction. And I'm like, oh, that's right. He's a fucking jackass. And if he could switch himself with a casket in the ground, that would be awesome. um

Speaker: Like, God, I hated him so much. And all of those, I retroactively want to take back everything I ever said was cool about him. um He should have thrown himself out of the building three times and let himself out. ah but

Speaker: No, I'm a tailor. I'm a trickster defender to the end. I think he's a fascinating and fun character. I talk about how much I love the travelers. It's really trickster. Like the rest of them are fine. They have really cool powers, but that's about it. No, I love trickster. Great character. yeah I agree. Well, and the the one of the few things that I remember from my warm mentioned is that we haven't really gotten the traveler story yet. Not yet. that part That is part of why they're likable is once you know more about them, they're far more interesting. that said i i think don't I don't remember what makes them interesting. I'm like a little kid in a candy shop when it comes to worm. I'm just like, wow. Wow.

Speaker: Okay, I'm going to keep doing my summaries because I'm falling into the fuck asleep right now. We still have four more, five more goddamn chapters. Maybe Wild Bo shouldn't have written a fucking hundred thousand word chapter, you know, arc. You know, so whose fault really is this? Maybe you should bring this up with JC, you know? We're coming near the end. We got two more big events. That's really it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So we all we've already kind of talked about chapter 10 a little bit. Taylor talks to the travelers to kind of, you know,

Speaker: feel them out a little bit and they basically say, we're not friends. Go suck a dick. And she's like, cool. Uh, they go, uh, and then go to meet director Calvert and up on the roof. And she's, you know, clearly a little nervous about their whole situation. He agrees to let Dinah go. Uh, but the entire time is very like tense and stressful. And then all of a sudden, right when it seems like everything is finally coming together, she holds Dinah's hand. There's suddenly a blip and Taylor finds out that she's been so body swapped and she's got a gun to her head. That is the end of chapter 10. The interlude three is

Speaker: How are we saying it? Marquis or Marquis? I think it's Marquis. It's always been Marquis. Gotta be Marquis. That's how I've always pronounced it. ah So we're just going to say Marquis. Marquis' perspective, a look into the birdcage and how Marquis and Amelia or Amy are doing kind of a small discussion of why they can't escape. We get a little bit of an idea into how things work in the birdcage. Um, Amy tries to get a message out to dragon, but something happens in the routing. The simmer re re wraps the information somehow, and the AI files it as unimportant. Hmm. Um, should we stop there? And then I'll, I'll, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll, the last three will buckle together, but we'll stop. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't think that's how that happened. I thought that.

Speaker: what Amy said was information that wasn't that relevant. And meanwhile, the simmer, that's not what I got at all. That's not what I got at all. It oh no sounded to me that Amy's, Amy's talking to dragon. She's trying to get a message out to her, something important. And, and as the message is like filtering through the system, the simmer happens to like, fly in front of a satellite or something, and the data gets scrambled. And then the data gets like reformulated by the AI, but amidst the scramble and everything, the message, like it gets flagged so many times that the AI just basically is like, yeah, it's fine. It's not a big deal. We're just going to file this with like all the other things we've recorded from the birdcage, and the message doesn't get to Dragon because of it.

Speaker: that's what I did not get that at all. Am I stupid? No, i i actually I actually reread it twice, this just this time reading it, because I forgot about it the first time all those years ago. I read it and then I went back and I reread the section again, because it is it is a little confusing. But no, Hannah is spot on. It's basically... ah because it's Because what happens is Amy gets a read off of Oh, forgive me, Lord. Glastiguene. Glastiguene. Thank you. God, it was close. Glastiguene gets a read off of her yeah and it's intentionally ambiguous. the

Speaker: reader doesn't really quite get what it is, but whatever it is kind of really scares her. And she essentially it says, wants to go find out how to tell dragon Marquis says, ah you know, you can go into your room, talk to the walls. She's always listening essentially. Um, and she does that, but her message is intercepted by the simmer intentionally and then scrambled redirected past to the system so that nobody can see it, which is ah crazy. Fascinating. It's kind of unclear, I will say it's kind of unclear whether the SIMRF is doing this purposefully or if it's just an effect yeah of it being near that particular satellite, which is part of maybe why it's a bit confusing. I think yeah so i wasn't sure about that specifically. There's a couple subtle clues and I don't

Speaker: Well, we'll cut this if we need to. I don't think this is spoilers because I think this is stuff we've already read. There's a couple of subtle clues that implies that it is intentional. The chief one being that one of the Simmerff's key attributes is that she doesn't move unless she's doing something intentional. So she is a stationary being until she moved somewhere and she's made it. So she changed her course. Yeah, changed her course. She's moving here. That's right. That's right. I guess I just wrote this as like, ah, the simmer is doing something weird that we bring her up stuff happens. And then the simmer flies on. Yeah. Like yeah I.

Speaker: completely, this is a first, I didn't know that happened. ah Yeah, I will say I probably picked up on it because the first half of this i but first half of this arc I read and the second half I listened to and it's the the reader for the for this interlude was Pretty good. And it just like, all the pauses were perfect to make you realize that like, Oh wait, that was important. Oh, that was important. Oh man, this is important. Like this is all very important. Uh, but the, the line is that 62 miles above the surface of the earth, Zimmer changed the course of her flight. And then it, the systems rerouting messages and the resulting message was scrambled by the dense signature of the end bringer and route to dragon.

Speaker: Which fun fact, I had to Google that because I was like, that's an interesting number to pick there, Wildbo. 62 miles is like the exact but exact as you can get kind of level where the atmosphere ends and space begins. So she's, she's like sitting right at the atmosphere level. Yep. Right at the top, which is high. Yeah. She stays high all the time.

Speaker: Man, I love this. This whole interlude was great though. I know we focused on the end, but I loved the birdcage interlude so much. I love it ah Wild Bo throwing some shade on Fade in there ah for anybody who was a Fade series reader. Oh, I miss that. I thought it was a Twilight reference. I'm like, I know Fade. I haven't heard that name in a hot minute, but that's ah from what I remember, sort of a, a spy thriller series. Um, I thought it was supposed to be like, uh, a ah reference to like, why like, cause it was like a romance with a ghost. Was that the, fit I was gonna say, I didn't think that was the one. I thought that was a separate book they were talking about because fade is a series, uh, like so it's sort of in the Tom Clancy vein of like military thriller action stuff. Um, the main character named nicknamed fade.

Speaker: Uh, I just assumed it was throwing some, some shade. I'm like, Hey, don't you want to read the military like action thriller books? No, I'm good. Not really my style.

Speaker: didn't Didn't catch that at all. That's funny. But then again, I don't read books like that. So yeah, I never heard of fate. I loved all their theories about what the birdcage was. Yeah. And how to how they could break out and, or couldn't break out. And like, actually we are, might be the size of a football. It's just like, what the heck? Come dressed down and buried miles beneath the earth. Yeah. Uh, also we had some interesting people, you know, lined up for our cell block leaders.

Speaker: One of them i you know, I kind of forgot was in there and it's interesting that he's a cell block leader ah But y 'all remember gavel No, no gavel it was a hero Who is kind of the reason we have the rule you can't attack people in their homes ah see i Went and attacked Uh, like villains, family members. Yeah, that's right. I forgot that was him. Yeah. yeah and Um, that's mentioned. Yeah. I mentioned early on. so He is the reason.

Speaker: I'm pretty sure he's the reason that they have the, okay. So one of those unwritten rules that we now have to make a rule, uh, no attacking at the house. Like you cannot, you know, publicly be like, ah, yes, this is that person. Uh, they have wife and kids and you know what? I'm gonna go after them. right Strong Punisher vibes, right slash like Judge Dred vibes in my mind. I don't know if that's true at all. His name is Gavel, so that would make sense. Yeah, yeah but the Judge Dred, you know. And they're like, you can't do that. Like you're breaking the law. I am the law. You know, and then smashes him with a giant hammer. The birdcage with you. Little birdcage you go.

Speaker: yeah Yeah, that that whole birdcage chapter was was interesting. I don't know. I will say this is the one that felt in light of everything else going on. I felt so rudely interrupted from Taylor's story by this one. where i get ala The other interludes, like the one we get introduced to Piggott's backstory in Thomas Calvert, and the other one is kind of following up on the dragon fight. We find out the effect of that one. This one, at least especially initially, it just kind of felt like, wait, wait, wait, wait, what happened to Taylor? Why why are we in the birthage? I don't care about and what's Amy. i

Speaker: What? No. Okay, but what's her ass? Get out of here. I will say I felt like the whole purpose, like the only part that I was like, oh, you know, like about the entire time is the similar reference at the end, being like, oh, fuck and bring her and bring her. Like that's and if the entire interlude was was the setup for the simmer. Like, fuck like shit. This is everything is about the fucking crash. Like, God damn it. And also yeah this this probably would have been a great ending interlude to be honest, but.

Speaker: I also like to think again, we were talking about the strengths of the web serial format. This was also absolutely wild bow going. Yeah. Massive cliffhanger. You want answers? Oh, you gotta wait till next time. like Ah, curse. Curse you. You know, just to kind of imagine reading this live and thinking you're about to get answers and then. But if you subscribe to Patreon, get the chapter early. Yeah. Yeah. oh There it is. Yeah. But we can get back to Taylor here. Well, yeah, let's get back to Taylor. OK, so the last three chapters. Did we talk about her but her betrayal at all? I feel like we skipped that part. Or did we miss that? I miss it. We kind of know we haven't gotten there yet. We where she just, you know, she got flippy floppy and oh, my God, the bastard. Big surprise. Yeah. Yeah. So she she grabs Dinah's hand and then, you know, all of a sudden, no longer where she was. But inevitable betrayal.

Speaker: Yes, sudden but inevitable. So she coiled, last we saw, last we saw, Coyle had a gun, Thomas Calvert had a gun, trained to Taylor's head. And we're back with chapter 11. um Taylor gets shot, but she fights on. There's a bit of a scramble in the building that they're in. How did you miss? She was three feet in front of you. How did you miss? As it turns out, Taylor's costumes are in fact bulletproof. That's true. That happened earlier a couple of chapters ago in regards - It's a tinker I tell you.

Speaker: Yep. And so we hate tankers like tankers, let me tell you. Yeah. And, and so there's a little bit of a Molotov cocktail situation and coil lights the house on fire, locking Taylor in, uh, but she's able to kind of work, worm her way out. a

Speaker: That's all folks. Good night. We had great time. It was a great podcast of last episode. This one is. Yeah, so she uses her duplicates to ah basically get out the window and escape. She pulls a little bit of mind games here and there, ah little tricksies on Coyle's team ah to get away. ah Chapter 12, Taylor tracks down her team, tries to rescue them, realizes that there is a fake Taylor that has taken her spot. And ah just as she's about to run in and warn everybody, ah the fake Taylor makes it look as though she has betrayed the team and steals Dinah away. ah And there's like this box that's, I guess, kicking out orders for all the bugs and she's trying to override all the, you know,

Speaker: all the things that the bugs are doing. She's trying to crush the box and everyone's mad and everyone's chasing her. And finally we crushed the box. Hooray. They figure out what's going on. Chapter 13. The Undersiders try to trick Coyle. One last final, you know, way to get him back. Uh, but he sees through it. And just when we think everything is about to go to shit and all, everyone's going to die. Tattletale outpays his minions. And suddenly, Coyle's on his knees and Taylor shoots him. Magically oh delicious as the undersiders take the victory, return to Coyle's base and find out that Coyle has, with his final breath, fucked them all. And they realize that Noelle is gone. Busted through the doors. Gonzo.

Speaker: Let's start all the way back in the fire lit room. Yep. Taylor is about to die in a fire that she is trapped in because of hexagonal screws. I got screws with the hexagonal head and and I went but really, that's an odd way to describing it because I think what he meant to say is she's getting fucked over by Alan wrenches.

Speaker: comes back and fuck alllan fuck over taylor again every time every time that's too fucking putting shade on that name I love it. I love it. That's what it would come down to. Taylor dies a smoke inhalation and it was all because she didn't have an Allen wrench. oh That's funny. more you know That's funny. That is funny. or Yeah. Yeah. That is, uh, that's fantastic. I didn't even think about that. I mean, they could have been like, like screws with like, you need a socket set for ah when we're talking about like an indentation, I was like, Oh,

Speaker: Like, like an Allen wrench tool that comes with sockets. We're talking Allen wrench and I was like, it's an Allen wrench. canonically It has to be an Allen wrench. It's always now. Yup. Yup. Yeah. I mean this, again, the tension is high. it It does kind of feel like this is one of those moments where while it makes sense that she escapes, There is this slight sense of, should she have? just she It feels almost too lucky here. um yeah And I know, you know, she's our protagonist. we you know Her story's not over. I don't know. i ah Maybe I'm just a coil cuck fanboy.

Speaker: But his ending, i now I have a cool idea for Dissecting Worm, so I'll get there when he dies. But his ending as a character, I think, while cool, also felt just lackluster. And maybe that's part of the point. I agree. Yeah, maybe that's part of the point, though, is he's been such a showman villain that having him lose in such a lackluster way where it just comes down to money. is kind of just the irony of his whole story. ah Yeah. Honestly, I would say that, but almost about this entire arc, I feel like a lot of this arc is things that happen that are really cool. I love this. I love Dinah getting rescued. I love, uh, all of this, but, um, I don't feel like they're deserved here.

Speaker: Yeah, and I almost feel like, and and I don't know this for sure, but I almost feel like with a Wild Bo, what might be happening is Wild Bo wants to get to know well, but to get to know well, he has to get coil out of the way. He has to meerder. Yes, he has to meerder. The person with the coolest powers in the whole thing.

Speaker: I don't know, so it it feels, it feels ah like an anticlimactic climax, but i I don't know at the same time though, I was also kind of like, Oh yeah, that's how that went down. That was kind of cool. So i I'm of two minds of it completely where I'm like, Oh, that was too easy, but also. It's still kind of cool. I don't know. Yeah, no, it's strange. it's It's very much like reading it in hindsight is it's a really, like you said, it's a really cool end to Coyle's character. ah It's a satisfying moment. And like in terms of how they beat him, it's like you said, it's really poetic. It's tattletale out buying him, which is hilarious. yeah yeah It's like the one thing he couldn't, didn't plan for because his ego is too big.

Speaker: Like it it it it makes sense. Like though everything works in that sense. It doesn't feel ah like, ah you know, unearned in that or in that regard. But I agree. I think it's just coming on the light of everything. It happens so quickly. I mean, Coyle has been essentially for, you know, aside from the first couple of arcs, the antagonist for Taylor, this entire story. And you don't see that ending here. It feels like with the way the way the arc is written, it feels like we're entering into a new phase of their rivalry, you know, where like it's, you feel like it's going to take a different direction. Like, okay, everything's changing. Maybe he leaves the city. They're obviously no longer going to work for him. How are they going to fight back? And then they outsmart him and kill him. And it's just kind of over, which is weird. It's a, it's a different dynamic to the story. Yeah.

Speaker: yeah has Metaphorical and literal sense. Yeah. It is a mad dash to the finish. But when you thought it was a marathon and all of a sudden it was just a 400 meter sprint, like you're like, Oh yeah, they're finishing the first lap. They're on to, you know, they've got four more to do a mile. And then you're like, Oh, Oh, Oh, they, you know, they're slowing down. They just, that was the finish line. Oh, okay. Like it. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker: cool moments, just not what I was expecting. Maybe, and and and maybe that's it. Maybe it's just a matter of expectation, but I feel like the expectation was that this was going to be longer term. And, um, I don't know the fact that the the entirety of him being dealt with essentially is this arc. I mean, maybe you could throw in last arc as well, but yeah. So he gets one arc. It's the longest arc and he's, you know, only about half of it, to be honest. Yeah. Yeah. and I don't know. Cause yeah,

Speaker: I, again, like I said, I'm kind of of two minds of it because it does feel very fitting and poetic for a lot of narrative reasons. But I think maybe, maybe I'm just a little disappointed with how quickly it felt like. his story ended kind of out of nowhere. And kind of like you said, with this very wild plan to become Thomas Calvert and take over that way, just unraveling so quickly. And I don't know, it just felt, felt a bit off. That said though, Taylor escaping was really cool. The fake Taylor thing was super cool. I was like, this is wild and incredibly smart. What coil is doing.

Speaker: And only just barely survives Taylor does because grew can take her powers if he hadn't had his second trigger. He, she just dead, you know? Yeah. Um, and then yeah, the trick at the end is, is pretty cool. I got to admit it's. I love the image of of Lisa being the lair villain. The one with all the people and just hanging out in her lair with like, yeah she is like the penguin. I don't know. She just, she seems like such a, she let her run the underground of the city. Like this is where Lisa should be. Like Lisa doesn't do great out in the field. Like put her in comms, give her the lair, the underground lair. Like give her,

Speaker: minor and fish and all of our boy is like it's perfect i love that i love it so much like i'm ready for it but also thomas calvert had like he had what a day. Did he get a day yeah to be just he doesn't even get to be the inner guy like that's one of the things so coil dies and like. yeah This is the same day, right? Or is this the next day? It's if as the most of the day. At most though, it's just one day. yeah I don't even know if he gets to set foot in the PRT building. like He shows up, like checks into the motel real quick, and you know doesn't even get he puts his bags down, his you know that this fake bags, and then walks out and tries to set a building on fire across the street and gets killed. like

Speaker: ah He does nothing. I go back to, we are going through PRT leaders like hotcakes. Piggo, dead. Thomas doesn't make it big as dead. Piggo's not dead. pick ah pig it not dead oh that's right no big is the stabbing do she just that didn't kill her she just get out they po She probably died out of spite off screen. She was like, Oh, you want me alive for your plans? Well, I guess I'll die. Yeah. like um But yeah, like, okay. So she's fired. We'll just go with that.

Speaker: Uh, he's brought in, he doesn't make it a day. Like the next guy is going to be like told via email lady that just given the pattern gets told by an email that like, Hey, you're going to be the next PRT director. And before he can be like, fuck, no, I don't want that job. I heard what happened to the last two. Like his computer's going to explode in the glass because Shatterbird was like, Oh, we got to kill that guy. Like it's like he doesn't even get to leave his city. ah yeah What's the Tyrion quote from Game of Thrones? Everyday directors are dropping like flies. so but

Speaker: ah yeah i Okay, I will say though, to to throw this into dissecting Worm, I have an image of what Coyle's final scene would look like. ah Give it to us. So this is a, paint me a picture. not I'm not normally on dissecting worms. So you guys take this as you will and decide if you like it or not. ah I would like to see this, this final scene from Coyle's perspective. And here's what I mean. The moment he realizes what tattletale has done, right? Cause this conversation reads very calmly overall, like Coyle was getting desperate, but you can tell he's still remaining calm. And I think,

Speaker: In my mind and in my vision, that's because he's going crazy in his alternate reality. says And so what we see is calm coil contrasted with another coil running around desperately trying all sorts of different tactics. Then that coil gets sucked up into the calm one. Another one jumps out of them. Desperate tactics sucked up into him. Just rapid fire coils coming in and out as he's trying to create a reality where he survives this scenario. And like in the whole time, it's like this under underlying buzz of desperate conversation that you can kind of hear if you listen to it, under underlying the whole normal calm conversation that he's having with Tattletail, right? So it's this it's just this image I have of him yeah throwing out realities and and trashing them as soon as he realizes they don't work, just desperately trying anything to survive. Yeah. And then finally... I do it like this. Oh, yeah. I love it. Yeah.

Speaker: Finally, it comes back together at the end and he gets shot. Yeah. I remember reading this the first time and trying to figure out like Lisa has arranged a way in such that when he, like there is literally no him being able to split and do two separate things because it just won't work. Um, and in my mind, cause as far as we know, he can only do two at a time. I think, um, that like she's essentially got him in a checkmate where he cannot go either way. And in my head, if we were going to paint an image of this, um, you know, she hands Taylor, the gun or Taylor's like, I'll do it. And she walks around to stand behind coil. Taylor puts the gun, you know, up to his head. And when we like cut to like, uh, you know, looking from the side, Lisa has a gun.

Speaker: And they both shoot at the same time, essentially aiming to the right and to the left of coil. And in both of his realities, he tries to dodge one into the other yeah and gets plugged in both of them. Like um it's literally like yeah in this reality, Taylor's the one to gun him down. But what he doesn't know is Lisa's behind him and yeah is aiming to the other side. and So like he literally cannot pick a direction. And he doesn't see that the other direction's just gonna get him killed. So, like. I like it. Yeah, and in in this reality, thats cool it looks like Lisa just fires a bullet into the ground next to his head, just in case he dodged to the right, because in the other reality, he moves his head to the right to dodge and like charge Taylor or something. Yeah, there's a lot of lot of really fun ways you can you can try to storyboard this. Have a lot of fun with this scene.

Speaker: And we will in dissecting worm. We'll get to that. Yeah. Yeah. Tune in next week. It'll be a lot of fun. Yeah. Uh, something that's kind of rolling into the dissecting worm, but it is mentioned in this that I thought was interesting to explore was, um, like there's a talk about that he would not let like, okay. So the plan here at the end, I'm actually kind of on board with, I think there's a little bit of over complication, but Uh, I think that's actually more on the writing than it is coils plan. So coil fake switch out, switches out and betrays the undersiders that are there. Thus Taylor can run away or they, you know, and, and they're left. Oh my gosh. Good riddance. Meanwhile, it's maybe implied that Lisa also betrayed them or, uh, ran away with skitter or whatever the details are there so that they're still kind of loyal to coil.

Speaker: um ah And, you know, these two people can be taken away at which point in time, ah Lisa was going to become another pet. um Right. He says that. Yeah. Yeah. He says that. And I was like, Oh, shoot. Like, that's really interesting because in another universe, like, you know, and once again, leaning into, you know, a little bit of the dissecting worm would be really interesting if that's.

Speaker: you know, essentially what Lisa was that like Lisa, Lisa was, you know, kind of this pet on a leash that like, you know, she could have very easily been Dinah, you know, she's a little bit older. So she's, you know, a little bit smarter and work, you know, weasels her way out from under his thumb, but like she, she was for all intents and purposes, another Dinah. She just wasn't on drugs. Mm -hmm. Like she was not getting out of this situation. yeah She could have been. That's cool. Yeah. Like she has more freedom to, you know, literally go outside, walk around. But in the grand scheme of things like coils, not letting her out, like out of the city, like she's going to stay on a leash for the rest of her life. Yeah. Yeah. you're you're saying Yeah. Man, what a man, what a, what a man, what a dude.

Speaker: What a dead dude. He's like, oh, I guess put me in the bird cage. Like, bitch, you ain't leaving. I know. I like that. I like to try his last attempt. Fine. Cuff me. Take me away. Do your worst. so I'm sorry. Do we look does Taylor look like a bitch? and thing Do I look like a ward to you? yeah oh shot Yeah. And then just goes, yeah, shadow stalker and plugs. yeah shadow soccer still catching strays. That's a whole ah oh man. I'm stuck on the mega mind. I said that once and that's all I can think about tonight. But he does that in mega mind too, where he's like, Oh, you've won. Take me to jail. I give in. It's like, Oh no, I was thinking more like the morgue. Also, also, uh, ballistic. I can just imagine, because, you know, per our D and D game, does ballistic just bird shot his teammates, Allah Edward and the catapult spell.

Speaker: It's a joke for all of our D and D players who are playing an hour campaign that nobody else can see. but Yes. Artificer has a handful of marbles or stones and then just cast, it's catapult, right? It is catapult. something like that as catapult and Just fires buckshot into his teammates who are like five feet away. They're fine. They're fine. They're fine. I mean, it's enough to knock them out, but damn. Cause Taylor doesn't know what's happening. So she's just like, and they pass out and they pass out. It's like, oh, wait, no, it's it's ballistic. Just knocking them out with a shotgun. It's yeah. Yeah, pretty much. So it's one line shotgun. Remind me why ballistic does that was he he was working with. He's sick and tired of tricks. Yeah, that's right. He was done with trickster was probably easier, easier to buy.

Speaker: Paddletail was like, Hey, knock out trickster and I'll give you five bucks. And then he's like, yeah what I've done it for five bucks. Knock out Tristan. I was gonna say my joke was that holistic is putting away as well. Oh, you'll give me five bucks. Okay. I was going to say, Tata Tails offers like $50 ,000 you knock out Trickster. And he's like, okay, but give me a second. I need to go find $50 ,000. Yeah, exactly. Let me raise some money. It's going to take a couple, yeah like a little bit, but you bet. He even said like, if they go this time, I'm staying probably just going to man this territory for the rest of my life, you know, before the world ends.

Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Cause he's very like the world is going to end and everything's over. And he doesn't think they're ever getting back, um, you know, to where, where they need to go and not getting helped or anything like that. So he's just, he's fully on board with the nihilistic world's going to end and I'll be damned if I'm going to die beside, beside trickster. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The only way I want to go out is my hands wrapped around his neck, you know, And same, same. There's another Lord of the Rings meme where it's never thought I'd fight dying side by side with an elf. What about side by side with a friend? And then it's back to the ah council of Elrond. I'll be dead before I'm gone. That's their whole dynamic. Oh, that's great. Then we get to the end of this and holy shit. Can we have a breather?

Speaker: For a second. Nope. No. For a second. We didn't even get a full barbecue. We, well, okay. We just weren't there for the barbecue. The barbecue happened. It just, we weren't, we weren't there exactly. Although I will say there's nothing more. Lots of people have lots of fun, exciting, you know, relaxation times, but you know, meanwhile we're dealing with the slaughterhouse nine. Like we don't get to see a lot of good fun stuff. We're too busy fucking around with all this shit. There's nothing more satisfying than that moment though when she goes to get Dinah and it's like they open the door and she's like, I've waited so long for this. yeah And I like, oh my gosh, I got hit with the feels because i I've been hating every moment that Taylor's like.

Speaker: Oh, I'm doing it for Dinah. like Shut up. like No, you're not. like Get over it. like Fuck Dinah. she's She's fine. Just leave her alone. But all of this was like, oh yeah, we did the right thing. This just good this was a good moment. we we We had a win here today. like Finally, get the girl free. And yeah, like you said, Ellen, we cannot have one fucking moment of a breather and sound the alarms because shit's about to get fucked up again. We don't have time for the end of the world. We've got to save the world. The other thing that's ending. Yep. Yep. And we'll get a standby. I don't, I don't like the entire time. I stand by. I don't buy the Dinah thing, but damned if I didn't feel it at this end where she's like, i felt like you said, I felt it. I felt that I was like.

Speaker: Man, this is so good. so Okay. Except for everything leading up to it. Real quick thing, real quick thing though. This means that Dinah, I know that like she just found out that, you know, um, Taylor was trying to save her, but did she know the whole time? And if so, how did she find out? Cause Taylor admits like I haven't seen or talked to Dinah. I don't even know if she's alive anymore. I mean, I feel like she probably did the calculations. like she does What's preventing her from asking herself and her hand? Right. Like, okay, am I ever going to get out of here? Like, okay, here's the chance. Like, okay. I imagine that after doing the calculations enough times, she starts to realize that like, Her fate is tied to Taylor's, maybe, and she like realizes, like oh, in the worlds where Taylor is living and is surviving and is like beating the bad guys and is like living to live another day, I tend to also, my chances of leaving like also go up. and like Yeah, that's true. if you know What are the chances that it's one of the undersiders? Ooh, that's a high chance. What are the chances that it's Taylor?

Speaker: It's Taylor. All right. Like I imagine that through process of elimination, she figures that out. What are the percentages that anybody cares about me? Like 1 % or is it how much of that percentage is in the undersiders? Like 20 % like. Yeah. How much of a percent that Regent saves me? Zero percent. Negative 25%. I was going to say, that's negative percentage. What does that mean? Well, because Taylor's been thinking about it for so long, like she's, since, you know, she found out about Dinah, Dinah has been like at the forefront of her mind. So like if, if Taylor, regardless of what happened to Taylor, as long as Taylor lives, her goal is to get Dinah free.

Speaker: So like, I imagine that the numbers probably reflect that. Yeah. Like her internal. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. I just want to know who gets coils cool base. I mean, it's gotta be tattletale, right? That or just like Dinah get it in some sort of settlement deal. There you go. And she's like, no, like the first thing I'm going to do is convert it to an orphanage. Obviously she can't stand to live there again, but it could be very useful space for other things. A lot of orphan children are running around, just saying. lee Lisa gets the base, and Dinah gets rehab and therapy. Yeah. Lisa. Yeah. Well, if we're done with this section, I'd like to go over no a small... No, no, no, no. this You'll like this. Alan, I am so tired. i Look, we'll move to this. We'll move to the power as we go to bed, okay? ah You'll appreciate this, because this is something I just i had look up.

Speaker: ah So the Ellisburg incident, if you will, this wild bow, uh, talking about i'm listening, yet talking about the Ellisburg incident. So all the way back, Michael, if you want to cut this back to when we're talking about no bog, you can mark the time. Okay. So first couple of days, pets are disappearing from backyards. Outdoor cats don't return. Insect population declined steeply. Open suspicions are raised about possibility of coyotes to explain the pets or perhaps a voracious rodent population being tied to water levels with the adjacent river. Pets disappear from inside of houses. A shapeshifter villain, uh, makes appearances one after another, but nobody's getting hurt so much as they're getting scared. He strikes target of no apparent consequences. The natural response at this juncture for a town this size is to call in cops from neighboring cities.

Speaker: One guy doesn't necessarily involve PRT involvement, especially when all the reports suggest that he's relatively harmless. A visiting police set up in the town's hotel ready to act. The next wave of creatures cuts the power in telephone lines, attacks cell towers, generates EM signals to scramble all means of communication. car under bellies and tires are savaged. The creations move through the city house to house, from the perimeter to the center. Then on reaching the center, touch base with nil bog and get the signal. They explode outward from one point and people panic running. They arm themselves and fight. Every time one is killed, they're dragged back to nil bog.

Speaker: one adult becoming three child sized creatures that are specialized for cutting down more adults. If the creatures report a problem, one family locks themselves inside a bomb shelter. One guy uses a homemade flame thrower to attack a whole crowd of things. He sends out specialized creations to answer that. If any die, others carry the biomass back to him with transportation. So systematically crippled the attention to detail. Uh, for hundreds of loyal soldiers with acute senses, escaping on foot is the only option and the creatures prove faster. Some people bake it beyond the city limits, but are only attacked the first moment they stop for breath or to use the washroom in the bushes. One to day, two days of problems, nothing that would make you pack up and leave the town. So that is, that is his, uh, space battles posts on

Speaker: what happened during the Ellisburg incident. That's cool. That is very cool. I would love to see. That's like giving me zombie apocalypse timeline shit. It's, it's zombie apocalypse, but like, okay, we've seen zombies and zombies while scary have kind of a familiar element to them. Right. You know, you know what a zombie apocalypse looks like even in a small town or something, but this, this isn't zombies. This is something different. These creatures are. You know, this is body horror on a different level. These creatures are creepy because they're inhuman. Even if we're talking like undead, you know, there's, there's some, you know, they're human shaped. They're just a marred version of that. These things are inhuman and gross and disgusting and

Speaker: and and weird and contrived and man. yeah And they're being made out of things. It's like if you took a human and then you watched them wrap it into three gremlins. Like, ugh. Well, I think it's so interesting too that at first they assumed that Nilbog's powers were shape -shifting. So clearly he's been, i am I would imagine it's possible he started by modifying himself and then learned he could modify other humans as well. through yeah knows what disturbing means, right? So yeah, very, very disturbing. Very, very disturbing. The whole no bog thing is just, it's yeah. It's wild. Yeah. i thought I thought you would appreciate the breakdown there because that is. Yeah. No, that was really cool. That was interesting. I'm sure we'll never see him again.

Speaker: No, no, minor character only for an interlude. It makes sense. He was basically just used to move on. Thomas. Yeah, it's so used to introduce Piget and Calvert, you know, just. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Just like the marquee interlude was only there to introduce to mention a similar. Yeah. Yeah. and And remind me that I hate Amy. Yeah.

Speaker: she Hey, have you thought about healing anyone, like literally anyone? I can't. Oh, this shit again. Yeah. I think that we mury i mean we could do a quick, um, favor power. Not too many new powers, so except for no bog and the, uh, and the bird cage. Yeah. We didn't get too much to see, but, uh, yeah, any, any, anything stand out? Plastic one. Yay. Give me a fucking crazy lady who talks to fairies any day. I would say crazy fairy lady. I love it. I'm here for it. yeah Also, I love the name. Yeah, she's great. i I can't really think of anything particularly new that is

Speaker: different. I mean, yeah, the people in the birdcage are all interesting. Glycid Winyea. Winyea is very unique. um Obviously, I think I just got to mention, of course, I love Coyle's power. And since this is his finale, ah rest in peace, Coyle, you have my favorite power. That's fair. They did have one of the coolest powers. It was a good power. You were a good villain.

Speaker: I was, was I RIV rest in villainy. There you go. Yeah. I throw and throw a few in and same thing. I eat coil coil against a nice little send off nod. Cool power. Um, so to, to add to like the fact that I really, really like circuses pocket dimension ability and, and enhanced timing and aim and everything like, The way she stabs, you know, picket is she throws three knives in succession up in the air and they land on her. Like just, Ooh, that's some great aim. I love some, you know, some coordination like that. and Um, but on top of that, we finally get a description.

Speaker: for circus, who I believe we assumed was, Oh my gosh, I forgot about this. I had a whole thing to say about this. Yeah. Yeah. Is, is it a woman in costume, uh, but dresses as a dude you know, or is it or out of costume or is it a woman in costume or like, or is it a man who dresses as a woman in costume? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is it a guy or a girl? You don't know. I love that. And I love that. One of my favorite descriptions. Circus's response to that question on the roof is to hawk a Lugi at a horsefly. I.

Speaker: And shoot it out of the air. I love it so It's so bad. I can't believe I forgot about that. It was so, I stopped, I was listening to it at that point. I had to stop, pause it, and I just like let out this giant cackle. It was just, it's such a great, and it's like, fuck you. You don't need to know. I just love it. I'll never tell. All the envy energy like give it to me. I love it. Yeah, i'm I'm here for that. ah Yeah, really, really liked that and really liked the powers. So circus is mine for this arc. I'm glad you mentioned that. I did forget that we get to see a bit more circus, um which was really cool. Yeah, that's fun. That's a fun one. All right. Well, I think that about does it. I'm going to say that about does it. We are, we are out of time.

Speaker: Yeah. One of our shortest episodes, I think. To be fair, long longest arc, going to be one of the longest episodes. We saw that coming, but we got a short one, shorter, shorter one. Arc 17 is a bit shorter, so that'll be fun. ah Read along with us, please. we have We've been enjoying this, going two weeks now for arcs as they have picked up in length a bit. next week will be a dissecting worm for arc 16 where Alan and myself will break down

Speaker: the arc for television as we have been doing. We're into season three now, which is a lot of fun. So we're kind of putting together this season. We got some things to work through here, so that's going to be fun. Stick around, listen for that. As always, leave us a voice message. If you have ah any gripes you want to throw our way, we'd love to hear them. and Leave some comments down below, of course, for anything that we missed. Anything you wish to correct, any pronunciations you think we said wrong, even though we were right, obviously, every time.

Speaker: ah Thanks to everyone. for All of you guys. Thanks you for ah for chiming in. Michael, thanks for making us sound good. And I do apologize for what we have done for you tonight. i probably with you and No problem. No problem. You can play us out if you'd like to. Okay.

Speaker: Thank you so much for listening. Read along with us at parahumans .wordpress dot .com. We'd love to hear your thoughts. What did you love? What did you hate? Anything you think we missed, etc. as long as it's kind. If you'd like to get in touch, you can find us on Twitter, threads, Instagram, TikTok, and Reddit at Brockton Bay, B .C. or click the link in the description.