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Episode 8 : Playwriting and activism with TJ Young
122 Plays27 days ago
The playwright's role is one of the most vital yet mysterious in all of the arts: far from the classic idea of a single writer in a room producing a completed script, the playwright is a collaborator and innovator, who generates ideas that must then be brought to life through dramaturgs, actors, directors, and designers.
TJ Young is an award-winning playwright, fierce advocate for equity, beloved educator, and acclaimed podcaster. TJ joins Georgia this week to discuss the playwright's process, tips for getting started and keeping going, as well as details about the new play that Georgia has written! Inevitably, the conversation strays into American politics and the way the current environment has impacted the arts sector, but when you have two people in the room accustomed to solving all the problems in the world, the outcome is nothing but positive.
For links to what TJ and Georgia discuss, check out https://heregoesnothingpod.substack.com/
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Overview
00:00:04
Speaker
Welcome back to Georgia Malone's Here Goes Nothing. I'm Toby Malone, Georgia's brother, happy to introduce this week's episode. Today, Georgia sits down with TJ Young, award-winning playwright, educator and podcaster, for a great chat about the playwright's process, dramaturgy and the future of the American theatre.
00:00:25
Speaker
Inevitably, the conversation strays through the topic of the American political scene and what that's doing to the arts sector. But when a rebel and a boundary breaker like Georgia Malone gets a like-minded individual in her sights, all bets are off.
00:00:38
Speaker
Enjoy the chat.
Introducing TJ Young and His Background
00:00:44
Speaker
So today's guest joins me from the other side of the world, where politically things are getting a little hairy. Welcome TJ Young. Thank you for having me. How are you? Good, thank you. So TJ is a playwright based in Pittsburgh in the US, where he's Associate Professor of Dramaturgy at Carnegie Mellon University. Is that correct?
00:01:03
Speaker
Yes. So to kick off, TJ, what was your first earliest experience in the arts? Yeah, i was lucky enough to go to an elementary school that was a creative arts elementary school.
00:01:15
Speaker
um I grew up right outside of Houston, Texas. um And one wouldn't think that that's the place where there would be a small little, you know, arts elementary school. But um even from kindergarten, we did everything from music to dance to theater to art ah and music.
00:01:35
Speaker
So from a very early age, about five or six, is really when I started getting involved in the art. That and my mom started dropping me off at summer camps that were theatre summer camps and stuff like that just to kind of get me something to do.
00:01:47
Speaker
Summer camps are a big thing over there and they kind of – They are huge. A lot of the theaters here actually do summer camps. um the it's Part of the American model is that the education department of theaters is are made to make money, um which is kind of crazy.
00:02:06
Speaker
but So the theater I'm on the board of launched a full-fledged eight-week summer camp from ages 6 to 18 or or something like that.
00:02:19
Speaker
And they full-length stay there for eight weeks. that They are. ah It's like a day camp. They get dropped off in the morning and they get picked up at like, you know, 4 p.m. ah It's kind of intense.
00:02:30
Speaker
But the thing that we found is that last year we actually didn't put out the sign-ups early enough. but So summer camps, sign-ups usually start to happen either the last week of February or the first week of March here, which is insane to me.
00:02:45
Speaker
I'm sure there are a lot of parents in Australia who wish they could put their child into something that makes in school. I think the problem here, I guess we've got Christmas in the middle, so it kind of changes things.
00:02:57
Speaker
Yeah, we have, you know, 4th of July, which the celebration rate on 4th of July varies. i can say I can tell you that much. Excellent. So you're a playwright.
TJ's Playwriting Journey and Style
00:03:09
Speaker
Yes. And so when when did you start writing? Yeah, I started writing actually my first semester in undergraduate ah school. I actually went to school for psychology at first. I thought I was going to leave theater completely.
00:03:21
Speaker
um i think we will try at some point to try and leave theater. We do. we like where I'm done. I'm done. It drags me back in. um But I thought that I thought, man, it can't be so hard to write a play that I would want to be in.
00:03:36
Speaker
Turns out it's very hard. And so I wrote my first play my first semester in college, you know, all by myself in my dorm where no one could read it. And it was awful. um And then I was like, okay, if i'm if i'm I'm the type of person, if I'm bad at something, I keep trying until I'm good at it.
00:03:53
Speaker
um And so I kept trying and here I am. My entire career. my entire career And so do you have a so kind of style of play that you write or is there kind of a genre or area that you're mostly interested in?
00:04:08
Speaker
Yeah, it's kind of twofold. One is I like to think that all my plays have a level of musicality and poetry in them. When I was in middle school and high school, I mostly wrote poetry and short stories, but mostly poetry.
00:04:21
Speaker
So the second I found a way to include that sort of rhythm and musicality in my playwriting, I absolutely did and dove in that way. um umm a huge All my plays have one, I think, banger of a monologue. I'm a huge monologue fan.
00:04:36
Speaker
But as far as topic goes topics go, ah it's everything from re-adapting classics, um like I'm thinking about writing a contemporary version of Uncle Vanya set in the South U.S.,
00:04:50
Speaker
and the south u s you know i've I've written a prequel to The Tempest. I have a Three Musketeers adaptation. But I also focus heavily on ah racial tensions in America and how that kind of plays out in everyday life.
00:05:06
Speaker
um As a Black man from the South, I think that was the thing that I missed from theater is something I felt was representing... what was happening in my life politically then
Exploring Themes and Plays
00:05:17
Speaker
ah that weren't pieces. Like I love my August Wilson, you know, um but I wanted something that felt contemporary and spoke to me now.
00:05:26
Speaker
ah So that's, that's, I always say that my plays are either about race or they're not. And if they're not about race, that kind of just, You know, I use that to explore the other avenues and venues that I want. But if they're about race, I want it to be about contemporary race relations in America and yeah how that shows up in everyday life.
00:05:46
Speaker
Yes, I'm sure it shows up often. Oh, so I actually thought, I was like, I think I've written my race play. I'm good, but I keep coming back to it because it keeps popping up.
00:05:58
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that's what that's for, that the art's for really, you know, an opportunity to kind of explore those things that, in a more um creative and, you know, creative way um to make sense of things, I guess.
00:06:11
Speaker
And so, yeah, so a lot of your plays are kind of based with your personal your personal response, like kind of you within the play something. Yeah, a lot of it is always me trying to navigate some aspect of this American experiment that I don't necessarily understand. um I'll give an example. I have a play called a Dark Skin Pavement, ah which is about a family ah still dealing with the repercussions of their child getting shot by a police officer like seven years after the fact, right?
00:06:42
Speaker
And more so how that family has become kind of martyrs in the community and how people try to use that for political gain, which you know happens all the time.
00:06:53
Speaker
I have another play called We Fly, which is based on an African-American folktale called The People Could Fly about um individuals who were on plantations who, um after being abused by the slave owners,
00:07:10
Speaker
had the ability to just fly away and fly north. And it was um it was a metaphor for ah the Underground Railroad and going to Canada. Yeah, yeah.
00:07:21
Speaker
And so i my play is based on that. ah It's set in contemporary times, and it focuses on how the media will make a spectacle out of ah race-based crimes um and kind of spin off and manipulate things.
00:07:36
Speaker
So I really try to take – um elements of it, like really specific elements and try to expand that out that way, we can start to look at the pieces of the whole. Because I think that sometimes the plays that talk about race in America can, they're trying to do too much at one time. And I think that's such
Playwriting Process and Collaboration
00:07:56
Speaker
a big, such a big topic and such a big issue that we have to look at the individual parts and how can we change one part at a time you know yeah yeah because if we're trying to change it all at once it's just not going to happen yeah and so but you're more of technical your process so do you um you know does ideas come to you and you kind of like i have to write this down or do you go i'm gonna set aside a certain amount of time i'm gonna spend this much time writing um what's your process
00:08:26
Speaker
Yeah, my process, I think a lot of it is um based on my teaching load, which, you know, being a college professor, there's not as much time as I would hope to write.
00:08:37
Speaker
But so I spend a lot more time ruminating and thinking about the idea and kind of fleshing out what my intention and hope is for the show and writing a good portion of it in my head. Mm-hmm. Um, and then I kind of do like a vomit and I just kind of throw it all up, you know, whenever I get the time.
00:08:55
Speaker
So winter breaks and summer breaks and spring breaks are really good times for me to write. Um, my spring break was just last week and I finished a play that I had been working on that started during winter break.
00:09:05
Speaker
yeah Um, so there's a lot of like dead time in between, but, um, what I do find is because I've gotten into the habit of thinking, thinking, thinking, and then sitting down to do it, I can, I can knock out a draft relatively fast.
00:09:22
Speaker
Um, usually, ah especially during the summer, there was one summer I wrote like three plays and I could, I could finish them in like two and a half weeks. Um, And i because I would just get up and I would write for four or five hours and I'd be like, okay, I'm good for the day.
00:09:36
Speaker
sort of So you have quite a back catalogue of plays. um So what is your involvement when one of those plays, when you, when a theatre company or someone picks it up, what what is your role in that process?
00:09:49
Speaker
Yeah, if it's a play that's older, um i love getting in communication with the director and the team. um So that way they can ask me any questions that they might have.
00:09:59
Speaker
um There's even been a couple times where they're like, hey, we have a question about this part. Would you be okay with changing it? To me, I'm like, yeah, sure, fine, right? Whatever your community needs at the point. at the time.
00:10:10
Speaker
um So I do a lot of zooms. I do a lot of, if I can make it out to the production, great, but I can't always do that. But whenever anyone is ah I always say if they're willing to do my play, i'm willing to talk to them.
00:10:24
Speaker
Right. um But if it's a new play, i mean, I'm in the trenches. I'm usually down to like helping pick casts that I think will help with the first reading. i' as often as possible picking my director.
00:10:37
Speaker
I try to be there for those first initial readings, first productions. i worked I wrote a prequel to The Tempest called The Isle of Noises and a school in Virginia, which is about five and a half hours away.
00:10:51
Speaker
I was doing it in the middle of the school year, of course. um But I was on the phone with, I went down a couple times. I went for auditions the first you know week of rehearsals and then near the end.
00:11:02
Speaker
But I was on the phone with that director every day. yeah um i was on the phone with, you know I was in every production meeting that I possibly could be. I try to be as hands-on as possible, um especially because you know I'm alive. If they have a question and something's not working, I can make an adjustment.
00:11:20
Speaker
But I think that that's really important. But also when I'm in the room, I also like to shut up and and not butt in because I also think that that's the collaborative part of it.
00:11:30
Speaker
Someone's going to see something in the work that I haven't seen. Are they going to find a new way in? And I'm really interested in their ideas and the way that they tackle those challenges.
00:11:41
Speaker
um And I learn more about my play as I see people try to do it because I say, oh, this is a trap I didn't know that I had set for people. How can I either fix it or am I okay with them struggling through that bit to hopefully get to a creative solution? And do you do you feel that you're being over your career become more open to that kind of feedback or like early on where you're like, no, no.
00:12:04
Speaker
Like don't change. I've got, I know exactly how this is going to be. Yeah. yeah Oh yeah. i Especially because early on when I first ah started producing plays, I was directing them and sometimes I was directing them, designing them and I was in them.
00:12:19
Speaker
So the idea of anyone giving me any sort of criticism was just not going to happen because I was like, I'm doing all of this. You can all be quiet. oh I know what's going on. Yeah.
00:12:30
Speaker
yeah Exactly. But ah grad school was actually super helpful for that because i when I was in grad school, I was like, I'm here to be a writer. So let me just be a writer in that way.
00:12:41
Speaker
And I found that to be very freeing. in the um ah Sometimes if I'm just starting a relationship, depending on how many meetings that we have, I might be a little bit more, um I'll use the word protective. Yeah.
00:12:57
Speaker
But you know as I get to know them and see how they work and see how they investigate, ah I try to let go even more and more. um But if I see something that i'm like, yeah, that's not going to work, I will say it.
00:13:10
Speaker
I'm not afraid of that. But I have found that now... um I don't think that I would have been in the place mentally to do that show in Virginia if it had come to me five years ago.
00:13:23
Speaker
you know Because I was like, i have to be there for the whole process. so But now i was like, I have a director who I trust, who's on the project with other people in the institution that I trust, with students that I've met before that I trust.
00:13:35
Speaker
So I can let go a little bit more. Yeah. Yeah. And so when you write the plays, do you have, because you've been involved in so many different areas of theatre, um from performing to directing, um designing, do you have like a really clear visual of what that play will be? Or like, you know, do you start with kind of like seeing it as as as a show or is it more the text driven?
00:13:59
Speaker
Yeah, i I tried to see it as the entirety of the world because, um A, I think that designers are tired of designing houses. Set designers are very good at it, but I also think what what other challenges can I throw at them, right? How do we make multi-story work?
00:14:15
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. um You know, not everything needs to happen in a bedroom and a living room and, you know, and i Because I think about environment in my plays a lot and how that affects the action and what's going to happen.
00:14:29
Speaker
But the other aspect of that is I also think about lights and sound. I'm always like, can I give them something fun to kind of play with? And what are the complete storytelling elements of that? So i I tried to give them fun bits that hopefully they will take and like run with.
00:14:45
Speaker
um And if I do write a house and he's like, something is weird about it. So I have a play called lion's den and it takes place in a burnt down house. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, that can look a thousand different ways. You know what I mean?
00:14:58
Speaker
ah So at least that's something fun for the designers to use. And it's also um a freedom for the director to say, what has what has stayed in this fire? What um what has been completely obliterated?
00:15:12
Speaker
you know How can we use those things to the advantage of the story? um But I always, I'm, um I'm going to start a play probably next week. Actually, I've been thinking about it.
00:15:23
Speaker
um And you hear it here first. Yeah.
Insights and Creative Influence
00:15:27
Speaker
But as I was trying to figure out ah how to start this play, the first thing I had to figure out was like, what's a really interesting location?
00:15:35
Speaker
And I was like, oh, yeah, it's a it's like one of those lookout points so that's overlooking the city where people usually go to make out. But this brother and sister are going there to write ah their middle sibling's obituary.
00:15:48
Speaker
you know like whats it's ah It's a place that's supposed to be for one thing, but it's it's for something completely different. I was like, that's fun. yeah i can I can play with that a lot more. then So I've um never written um never never really been a writer um and lately going through some health issues, the way to kind of express that or think about that um rather than writing a journal because don't see the point, ah I visualise, I'm writing a play basically. It's kind of my way of my creative outlet to try and get these ideas
00:16:23
Speaker
around what I'm going through, um which is, you know, initially great. And now I kind of, because I really want it to be absurdist rather than some kind of naturalistic play because visually I kind of have a really clear idea of what it looks like.
00:16:37
Speaker
um And, of course, working with Toby, as a drama take, has been good um and I've kind of put it aside for for a while.
00:16:48
Speaker
But um what kind of advice do you have to people starting out, giving it a go? Yeah, I would say don't be afraid of not being kind to your characters.
00:17:00
Speaker
I think that a lot of times when I read early playwrights' work, they're afraid of letting the possibility of the worst possible thing happen to their characters, right? um Because I think that there's two things that always excite me whenever I read a play and I think actually make for really good drama.
00:17:18
Speaker
If you can identify what a character's favorite, up I mean, a character's greatest hope is and what a character's greatest fear is, right? um And the second you know that, you kind of know the range and the spectrum that you can kind of work in between that, right?
00:17:33
Speaker
um And whenever i can I can tell when a writer has identified that thing, and they might never touch that greatest fear, but they know how to get close enough to it so that way they can get a reaction out of their character.
00:17:44
Speaker
um Identifying that is really, really helpful. And knowing that I love the fact that it's like absurdist because when it's absurdist, you can really have all those things manifest in a way that feels disjointed, but it has to be rooted in like true emotion.
00:18:02
Speaker
you know yeah yeah Otherwise, there's no there's no tether to pull us through the story. um So yeah, I'd say focus on those things for sure. Yeah, have to get back to it. I have to think about it again.
00:18:17
Speaker
But sometimes you do have to just set it down and walk away. that way you can always think that the second you start writing, you're activating a you are activating a different part of your brain.
00:18:27
Speaker
But like it's always working in the background. And if you're like, I don't have the answer just yet, when you come back to it, you'd be like, I figured it out. you know Because you took the time to allow yourself to do that. I did try to get Toby to write it.
00:18:39
Speaker
I kind of gave, i said, I've got an idea. Can you write this for me, please? And he's like, no. I
00:18:46
Speaker
i can hear him saying that right now.
Dramaturgy and Teaching
00:18:50
Speaker
so you work in dramaturgy um at university. And so what interests you in that area of theatre making? Yeah, i am I do production dramaturgy sometimes, but my bread and butter is new play dramaturgy for sure.
00:19:04
Speaker
ah Anything that is allowing me to look at the forest while the playwright looks at the trees is super great to me. um That, and it just feels like the active form of theater that I was seeking whenever i was coming up, ah the creation of stories for here and now,
00:19:22
Speaker
um when I was growing up, this idea of like the, the next great American player, the next great international play, like, how do you become Chekhov? You know, how do you become, how do you write a play like the sequel that everyone wants to do And then I realized, oh, he just wrote it in response to what's happening to him right then. And then other people latched onto it.
00:19:44
Speaker
So ah helping people develop whatever their voices for that moment became really um fun and inspirational for me. And it also kind of keeps me on my toes as a writer because I get to see other writers do really cool things and I become a little envious. I'm like, I wish I thought of that, but like, that's really cool. Like how, how could I possibly fold this idea or this concept into my writing?
00:20:07
Speaker
um But new play dramaturgy is my jam. i I will do the production dramaturgy stuff because it gives me money and I will never say no to money. um I am a working artist. Exactly. Arts work is really work.
00:20:23
Speaker
100%. But ah I teach new play dramaturgy and new play development and playwriting in contemporary theatre. How do how did the young people take work with you as a dramaturg? Are they open to it or do you have to teach them to become open to it?
00:20:41
Speaker
ah they give They get quite protective. They get protective. And I think that the the thing is, i always enter it. And I actually, i thank Toby for this because Toby enters the process by asking questions, you know, and really kind of get to your intentions. And um Toby was actually the first dramaturg that ever did that with me. I've had a few in the past before I met him that i was like, I'm not sure if this is my thing. And then I met him I was like, oh, that's just a good way to do it.
00:21:09
Speaker
Right. um So I think that there is always this initial fear that it is my quote unquote job to come and say, this is what's broken about the play. This is how you fix it. Fix it now. Do it this way or or there's no other opportunity.
00:21:23
Speaker
um But i I even teach my students how to go from what I call the WTF question when you read a play, because we all have emotional reactions to every piece of art that we take in.
00:21:35
Speaker
How do you go from the, you know, what the hell is going on to boiling down to like, the thing I'm actually curious about is this aspect of it, to being able to ask the author about their intention for that part so you can understand a way into the conversation. Yeah.
00:21:54
Speaker
And that is, it takes time. ah We spend seven weeks just going um through this process of go ahead and have your emotional reaction because you're human.
00:22:05
Speaker
But like, how do you get to a point quick, quickly where you can ask um as um a neutral question so you can actually start a conversation.
00:22:16
Speaker
um But the at this point, I have students who come to me no They don't even come with pages anymore. They'll just be like, i have an idea for a play. yeah In which I say, cool, I cannot help you until you have something written down.
00:22:31
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, excellent. um So you and I met when I did an episode of Toby's podcast, Wake, a cold reading of Finnegan's Wake, which you've been doing with him since the beginning.
00:22:43
Speaker
um Yes. And it's almost complete, i believe. Yes. so close we're so close like get it over how has that experience been for you it's been um kind of been revelatory uh i have always liked modernist plays like thornton wilder skin of our teeth is one of my favorites um but to but i've never really experienced it through literature at least not in this way right um and I rarely get to read novels because I'm reading a lot of either plays or my students' work.
00:23:20
Speaker
So having something carved out to force me to read a novel is one thing um that I actually appreciate. But the other part of it is that I feel like I often get stuck in this world of what makes a story work, right? Mm-hmm.
00:23:35
Speaker
Um, and to go into a piece of art where it's just like everything you thought about what makes a story work, just throw it away. You just have to experience it. Yeah. Um, is really, has been really helpful to kind of shake me out of it.
00:23:48
Speaker
I think part of it is because I'm in academia. Right. And there's like a level of fundamentals I'm trying to drill down. Yeah. and You know, you gotta know the fundamentals before you can get all weird and wacky and insaney.
00:24:00
Speaker
Um, But being able to approach a book that has humbled me to take it lightly um has been really great um because not a lot of things surprise me in that way anymore. um But this this really has. And the thing that I found is that There are some parts where I'm like, i dread this.
00:24:25
Speaker
this is This is hard and awful and my brain hurts. And I'm recording myself reading on the internet and i sound like a fool. And there are other parts where I'm like, oh, but this part is really rich and poetic and I really love um the way it made me feel, even though I have no idea what's actually going on. so It's been really engaging. It's been really tough.
00:24:48
Speaker
um I will be happy when it's over, not because I will, you know, don't want to continue working with Toby. Obviously, I do. I just need, like, my brain take a break. I guess it's kind of like a um like contemporary art, really, kind of, in you know, there's no necessarily, like, trying to find...
00:25:09
Speaker
the deep meaning of it is sort of more about the experience and and trying to, you know, what you get out of it personally is just as valid as anybody else, what their experience is without trying to go, what is this about?
00:25:22
Speaker
100%. feel the same way about like contemporary dance and modern dance. yeah A lot of it is like, I have no idea what's happening, but there's something that happens like, you know, but if you're watching a piece in 12 to 15 minutes in, you're just hit with an emotion.
00:25:35
Speaker
It's like, I can't tell you why it's happening, but I can tell you that it's happening, you know? I used to work for Sydney Dance Company, which is a contemporary dance company in Sydney, obviously, um and the artistic director and choreographer, Raphael Bonicella, would come out before the show um and just sort of say, welcome, and this is how you engage with this work.
00:25:56
Speaker
um This isn't just let it wash over you. It's an experience. this is where This is the base basis of what it is. And so it really kind of opened that accessibility of contemporary dance and it's okay just to experience something and feel it rather than trying to rationalise and add a narrative to something which it doesn't exist.
00:26:16
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And I think with Finnegan's Week, Sure, there's a narrative, but I am not smart enough to comprehend it. And so I was able to, like, let that go very quickly and just be like, whatever happens, happens. And what I experience is what experience. And you've got Toby there with his obsessive brain work that out.
00:26:35
Speaker
My favorite part was when we started the podcast, he said, I'm not going to do any research. And I was like, you're lying. I told him to his face. i was like, you're lying. He's like, no, I'm really not going to do anything. And then he was like, I just have this Google Doc where I'm like, okay.
00:26:50
Speaker
I think your idea of not much research and other people's are vastly different. 100%. Because not much research to me is like we're just going Just going. I know. I think that highlighted with his um episodes around Christmas and New Year and where it was about all about the references to Guinness and all the references to Christmas.
00:27:09
Speaker
Oh, yeah. he showed me that episode script, i was like, not much research. Okay. Yeah. He can't help you himself. He can't. So you've both of you have worked together previously. What kind of projects have you worked on?
00:27:26
Speaker
Yeah. um He has been a dramaturg for a lot of my plays since 2018, 2019, somewhere around there. um It's really funny because I heard him talking about dramaturgy and I told him I've been looking for one.
00:27:42
Speaker
And he was like, I'd be interested. And but before I would send him anything, I sent him a DVD of my favorite musical, Passing Strange. And I was like, watch this and then get back to me. And then he did, a I surprised that he watched it.
00:27:55
Speaker
And B, when the notes the the comments he gave are very much in line with like my thoughts on it. So I was like, we can work together. um But I've dramaturged some of his shows. He's dramaturg.
00:28:09
Speaker
a majority of the full length plays I've written in the past, of you know, six, seven years. um It's been really, really fruitful. ah And even though he's a librarian now, he's like, I'm out of the game. And I was like, except for me, right?
00:28:27
Speaker
He's like, yeah. Toby's retired from things many times over as well. But he keeps coming back, you know. It's like, you keep coming back and you're kind of still there and it's okay. I love when, you know, he retired from being an actor and then he did that.
00:28:40
Speaker
Then we got him into that one-man show theater festival during COVID. Yeah. And he did that. And I was like, you're not – you just don't do it as often, but you obviously still have it.
00:28:52
Speaker
Yeah, you don't get paid or – you're not going to auditions. And that's okay. Yeah. Exactly. But you still act – If anyone has listened to to Wake and the way he reads, I was like, yeah, because you're still an actor, my dude. Yeah.
00:29:06
Speaker
It's hard to, reading Wake alongside Toby. um Yeah, it's kind of performance anxiety. You're like, I will not be as good as you, so everyone bear with me. Like cold reading. It's like, yeah, good one, Tobes.
00:29:18
Speaker
Yeah. Pronunciation and intonation. Exactly. And I'm like, what is this word that's strung together? We'll we'll figure it out together, I guess. Oh, dear.
Politics and Arts Funding
00:29:30
Speaker
So now I have to ask, US politics is dominating the world at the moment and will for at least, I don't know, the next four years at least. Sadly.
00:29:41
Speaker
and We hear the big stuff over here like tariffs and immigration and Trump's little car show he had outside the White House the other day. Oh, yeah. So bad.
00:29:53
Speaker
Does he know they're electric vehicles? Because I don't think liked them. That's the thing. i was like, this is going completely against America's need for fossil fuels if you're trying to push electric vehicles. I'm confused by, you know.
00:30:07
Speaker
But when you're best friends ah with a billionaire who is your largest individual donor ah and has, as of yesterday, given an additional $100 million dollars to like organizations that support your cause, of course, you're going to do whatever you want. Although I will state right now that it is ah illegal for the executive branch to use their name to promote or advertise anything.
00:30:33
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. But the Justice Department is not going to push him on that. He's going to call on that, yeah. Nobody, yeah. more importantly, how is it impacting the art sector over there?
00:30:47
Speaker
Oh, part of it is – um The arts sector in the U.S. s isn't heavily funded by the government, but there's a, you know, large organizations get a good portion of money from ah the National Endowment for the Arts.
00:31:02
Speaker
And one of the first things that rolled out during the Trump administration ah was a... i a phrase in the new NEA grant that basically said it will not fund anything that pushes transgender or gender ideology, which, what does that mean?
00:31:22
Speaker
how how, yeah, how are people going to be able to like check that? What, what does any of that identify with? And so a lot of, um, ah grant writers and theaters had to make a decision. Like, are we going to apply for NEA funding?
00:31:38
Speaker
Because it wasn't clear if your if you're, if you are applying for project specific funding, if anything that's not funded by that could still be held against you and they could call the funds back.
00:31:50
Speaker
Like there's all these, these source stipulations. And now, um so a lot of theaters have actually said, we refuse to take funding from the government right now. um And i think it happened, I forget where it happened. It's either Baltimore or somewhere in Ohio, actually.
00:32:07
Speaker
And Athena released that statement and said, we refused to take this funding that was going to be used for this production. So we need um our patrons to kind of fill in that stop gap. And they did within days.
00:32:19
Speaker
yeah um And some places have actually seen surges in ticket purchases because these theaters are taking the stand, which is ah fantastic. But that doesn't help the smaller organizations who often used the ah gaining of a government grant as almost like a status symbol, you know, like, oh, we've kind of stepped up to a place where we can now ask for this funding from the government, which oftentimes in the U.S. grant system
00:32:50
Speaker
you have to get a grant to get another grant, right? yeah someone You have to prove that someone thinks that your project is viable and that you're not leaning on ah that funder completely for for everything to happen, right?
00:33:04
Speaker
So the NEA grant was really, really impactful, um even for me from a um educator standpoint within Carnegie Mellon University, we are able, we had been, I'm not sure if we still are, because honestly, ah the second that that came up, I was like, I'm not going apply, but we could pitch to our development office a project and they would pick one that they thought was viable and put it up for the NEA grant for the organization, you know, for the institution.
00:33:34
Speaker
um So, ah I mean, we are in a very liberal city in Pennsylvania. The institution itself is very liberal, especially the conservatory that is the school of drama where um you know gender expression and um and racial equity and diversity is at the forefront of the work that we do.
00:34:00
Speaker
So a lot of my colleagues who normally go for those NEA grants every year are just like, yeah, we're we're not going to do that. who There's, ah you know, a lot of art as rebellion is coming back up, which is fantastic.
00:34:13
Speaker
But we are also unsure about the positions within organizations that that depended on NEA funds to kind of make payroll.
00:34:23
Speaker
yeah And it's, it's showing a lot of theaters who used to do um before the pandemic, they used to do maybe eight shows a year, maybe nine.
00:34:34
Speaker
They were already down to um maybe seven, maybe six. Some of these organizations are going to be down to force ah four shows next season. and Yeah, right. So um it's a we're seeing the impact in ah in a very tangible way. Yeah.
00:34:51
Speaker
Often we we hear that, um you know, because we see the federal government kind of impact, but then people from the U.S. saying, well, federal government doesn't really have much impact. It's about the states and what happens within the states.
00:35:03
Speaker
Is that true anymore um because of the influence of Trump? It can be, yeah. I think that the tricky thing is if people are going to the states more for funding,
00:35:15
Speaker
than they were the federal government, it's not like the states have gotten more money, you know? So the states are either going to fund more projects for less money or fund less projects for more money. Like there's not going there's no way to kind of equal it out.
00:35:30
Speaker
um A lot of legislation and a lot of enforcement, sure, comes down to the state level, but um there's a lot of ah red states. There's a lot of conservative states where my family still lives in Texas.
00:35:45
Speaker
And I know people who have artists who have made art in Texas their entire lives who have said, I'm finally at my breaking point. Like, It's hard to get the projects I want funded.
00:35:56
Speaker
um It's hard for me to find the support that I need. I don't feel like the government is on my side ah from a state level. So I just need to go somewhere else that is more conducive to the work that I'm doing, which is totally fair and totally fine.
00:36:13
Speaker
But then again, if people are migrating out of those states to create art somewhere else, it creates a bigger strain on you know the resources that are in and those places.
00:36:24
Speaker
Yeah. And so we've um heard about the takeover of the Kennedy Center. Yes. Washington, D.C. And I know you you're involved in the connect Kennedy Center American College Theatre Festival.
00:36:38
Speaker
What's been impact on that? Yeah. ah It's funny because I was actually at a Kennedy Center Festival when we got the news and I was like, are you serious? Nothing is sacred.
00:36:48
Speaker
Yeah. The impact has been... um So far, there hasn't been a lot, but we know it's coming. you know i think part of it is...
00:37:00
Speaker
ah The board at the Kennedy Center seems to be struggling to figure out how to program the Kennedy a Center because Hamilton was supposed to have like a month long sit down there. Yeah. so They said, yeah, we're canceling.
00:37:15
Speaker
Yeah. um A lot of people have pulled out who just don't support what the administration has has done. um Me personally, last year was the first year that ah through the Kennedy Center and the education department, I was um the ah artistic director of a Black playwrights gathering. So we were able to ah take 11 Black artists and host them at the Kennedy do Center for a week.
00:37:43
Speaker
And we saw a show. We went to the African-American History Museum. We had workshops, know kind of fellowship, that sort of thing. um And I can tell you that before January, there was talk of, cool, is this still something we want to do? How many people do want to accept?
00:38:03
Speaker
And that conversation has completely stopped, which I fully expected, right? um And a lot of people... don't A lot of my students who are actually going to ah the Kennedy Center in, want to say, like ah less than a month, a little less than a month, are actually afraid to go. They're unsure of...
00:38:24
Speaker
um what it's going to be like, how, if there's going to be hostility. We are trying really hard to proceed as normal until we hear otherwise.
00:38:35
Speaker
um The Kennedy Center is still paying for my flight. They're still paying for my hotel room when I go to the National Festival. All those things are still happening. So we are moving with the intent that it's business as usual until they say it's not.
00:38:53
Speaker
um But I fully expect that over the summer, I would not be surprised if those education initiatives get a hard look from the board.
00:39:04
Speaker
um you know The idea of stopping an education initiative in the middle of the school year, ah I think seems criminal. i Again, i think that they're criminals, so they might do it any way.
00:39:18
Speaker
But we are just, we're kind of waiting for the other shoe to drop on how it shows up outside of that programming that is open to the public. what was it but What was the driver for him to do that, to kind of take over? Was there something that happened or do you just want does he just want a venue that he can have his rallies at regularly or something? You know, and it is it's a it's a vendetta. It's a payback. So when during his first administration, didn't,
00:39:45
Speaker
he didn't I don't think he agreed with who the board picked to honor in the Kennedy Center Honors, right? Oh, Because they had been vocal opponents of his blah, blah, blah, blah. blah So he just didn't go, which was highly unusual. He's the first sitting president to not attend these Kennedy Center Honors.
00:40:05
Speaker
um And I mean, like, these are people who are quintessential... um tastemakers and art makers in the United States. um Like one year, Oprah Winfrey was honored because of her, not only her acting um ah prowess, but also like her producing work with the color purple, you know, and all that other stuff.
00:40:27
Speaker
um And that was during the Obama era and it was, you know, highly celebrated and highly lauded. And then Trump just disagreed with,
00:40:38
Speaker
you know, the left wing media and the left wing celebrities. So he just wanted to come in. i think that vendetta really ah did it. And honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if it went as far back as when, I forget who his first vice president was. That's how much I have pushed this man out of my head.
00:40:58
Speaker
Yes, Mike Pence. When Mike Pence went to see Hamilton on Broadway. And the cast, during bows, acknowledged that he was there ah and basically made an appeal to his better nature to be like, what y'all are doing is awful.
00:41:14
Speaker
um Please stop, right? um You know, obviously didn't move the needle any, although I do appreciate the fact that Mike Pence did not stand on Trump's side during January 6th.
00:41:27
Speaker
But I think ever since then, there's been this vendetta against the quote-unquote wokeness of the arts in America, which if wokeness means caring about people, then sure. Sure, yeah. and Has it always been so polarized? Like the US, it just seems to be so extreme. Like in Australia, you don't really talk about who you vote for and what side of politics you're on. you can work it out sometimes.
00:41:51
Speaker
um But it's just really not talked about. and Yeah, I mean, as far as I remember, there was a time where ah people would be like, I'm voting for so-and-so.
00:42:05
Speaker
They would grumble for a little bit. you know Just like any politics, if the person you didn't vote for makes a decision you don't like, you're going to... r hour And then like move on. right um And what I really think happened is that this feels like the result of Obama-era optimism and enthusiasm.
00:42:28
Speaker
I don't think that you get to the red Make America... greater again hats unless you have the Obama hope shirts. You know what I mean? Yeah. um And so I think that, you know, the U S had the George Bush and the Iraq war and, um and for a time there after nine 11, everyone was a Patriot and kind of stood behind that.
00:42:52
Speaker
Yeah. um But I think that there was such a big swing because people had such a vich a visceral reaction to Obama and that that's when the polarization really started to come out.
00:43:04
Speaker
um But before then it was like, oh, yeah, you know, Bill Clinton, yeah, George Bush, yeah, okay. And they were like, Obama, great. And people just did not like that.
00:43:17
Speaker
Yeah.
US Political Climate and Arts
00:43:18
Speaker
Yeah, I've always said that Trump isn't like the cause. He's a symptom of everything that's kind of going on. 100%. And it's been going on for well before he kind of,
00:43:29
Speaker
became the figurehead um but it's just yeah it's to watch from afar the cultish kind of behavior and the extremeness of some people is just unfathomable and just lies think this whole idea about alternative truth alternative facts which is like when did we decide that there was such a thing that it was like an opposite Yeah.
00:43:51
Speaker
Oh, yeah. And i my I will say the thing that is giving me hope and joy, and it's 100% schadenfreude, and i rep and I recognize this, is that there is a section of TikTok that is just a whole bunch of people who voted for Donald Trump, realizing that his choices are affecting them personally in a way that they didn't expect.
00:44:11
Speaker
And it makes me so happy because I'm just like, we tried to tell you. Yeah. I don't know to tell you. you know They're at the find out part. Exactly. It's it's my favourite. Yeah.
00:44:22
Speaker
Yeah. I know we've got, um I mean, here we've had a, ah we're in election year this year. um ah think One thing that we have in Australia that what not many countries have is compulsory voting.
00:44:34
Speaker
So the idea that to have, um so think there's so many people voting from such a broad spectrum that to have that extremist to become the leader is just actually impossible.
00:44:48
Speaker
um And because we vote for the seat that we sit in that we live in rather than voting for an individual. um as Prime Minister, so their party votes for the the leader.
00:44:59
Speaker
um But we had an incident recently at Creative Australia, which is our federal funding body. um They manage the pavilion at the Venice Biennale, so it's kind of an opportunity to showcase Australian artists.
00:45:13
Speaker
And they picked some artists um and it was very much celebrated, very well-respected artists, but had done work that were You know, he's Muslim and he is um from his Lebanese, I think.
00:45:28
Speaker
I will fact check that. And the wannabe new arts minister kind of just kind of came out and said, how dare you put this person um in. like So in parliament kind of called it out.
00:45:41
Speaker
And then the... um Then there was this really knee-jerk reaction from Creative Australia, which is supposed to be an arm's length organisation, not to make decisions and separate from government. um They just pulled it.
00:45:53
Speaker
They pulled the eyes artists and the contract withdrew everything and it just exploded. It was just people who were working Venice Biennale stuff for years just left their jobs.
00:46:08
Speaker
They just couldn't. It was just really horrible time and it's kind of like that I think that instant knee-jerk reaction yeah from comments from someone who actually doesn't understand how the sector works.
00:46:20
Speaker
um Yeah, it was, yeah, so it's been a kind of bit of hairy and then there's that that kind of touching on that extremist views of, you know, this could be if the Liberal Party gets in, this could be the new normal Australia Council which has just released a national cultural policy a couple of years ago.
00:46:39
Speaker
it could all just go backwards again and then we'd lose all that funding. We'll lose all this and we'll get these kind of, you know, rules around what will be funded and what won't be funded. So it's like we're on the precipice, we're touching it.
00:46:50
Speaker
But I think there's a lot of checks and balances in our system, I think, that give me hope. and Yeah. Yeah. ah You know, i the only thing that makes me happy is that I keep getting news updates that the U.S. courts are like, this is illegal. You can't do this. You know, that's the only thing. And um I love the fact that y'all have compulsory voting.
00:47:13
Speaker
Oftentimes, whenever people are like, America has spoken, I'm like, no, we haven't. We've never tried democracy because only 47% of the people who can vote actually vote. So, like, no, we i don't know what the majority says because the majority doesn't vote.
00:47:27
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, so it's like 40 and it's only like 50% off that 47% vote for that person. Exactly, right. So think we've got, you know, hundreds of millions of people who will dissent. hundred percent 100%.
00:47:38
Speaker
Yeah. so often protest is a big part of art and it comes up through when times are tough like this and when these kind of regimes kind of take over.
00:47:50
Speaker
Yeah. whether And then artists kind of respond, whether it's through their work or starting discourse that challenges leaders. Have you been seeing much of that? Yeah. I mean, it's it's been twofold. We had across the country about three or four weeks ago, we had national day of protest in like all these major cities.
00:48:13
Speaker
And so that's been happening. Um, the art has become more radical. You know, um I'm a queer man and within queer spaces, we're like, we're definitely not going anywhere. We're going to be louder. We're going to be more out. We're going to like, we're going to have the drag shows. We're going to do all these things.
00:48:31
Speaker
um And people have been finding ways to not only protect the individuals who are, you know, at this point in time at harm for doing these things,
00:48:43
Speaker
but also continue to promote and ah fund and push it out there. the I think that we are also at the at this weird point where realistically it's only been two months and it's crazy to feel like it's only been two months.
00:48:58
Speaker
And so I think that the first month was really us just trying to get all our ducks in a row and gather our resources and say, okay, what is our response, right?
00:49:10
Speaker
But like I'm still... um I'm still hopeful and happy because ah they're still having the ah national pride ah week and in DC.
00:49:25
Speaker
And I've never been, i like pride. I'm not like a huge pride person. I'm like, there's too many people outside. I want to go home. But for the first time, I'm like, I might travel somewhere to go to pride, right?
00:49:37
Speaker
Because it is an active, an active resistance. And, ah there's a rapper named Dochi who wants... Yeah, so Dochi's going to be the closing act at...
00:49:50
Speaker
at you know, ah um Cynthia Erivo is going to be an act there. I mean, all these, these black queer individuals are going to show up and perform right down the street from the white house and the Kennedy center to say, yeah, we're not going anywhere, which I, which I find really, really um empowering.
00:50:10
Speaker
I, I can only see the art becoming more and more radical um as time goes on. Um, Because, you know, the other part of it is we have to get money because we're not getting it from the normal sources.
00:50:25
Speaker
Is the philanthropy, because, its I mean, America kind of got a historically quite um private giving is quite a big part of funding the arts. is that Is that stepped up a bit or is it um kind of, yeah, they just kind of maintain the same?
00:50:39
Speaker
it stepped up a bit, um, in certain areas. I think that the thing that we are noticing is that older institutions, it's harder for them to go to the same well. Um, but if there is a vision and a purpose and like a real gusto and fire, people have been able to find ways to get that, that individual giving in a real way.
00:51:00
Speaker
Um, yeah, it's, it's difficult all around because the same people who have money are the, are being asked by everybody. Um, So the the people who have been successful are the people who are going in together to ask money, right? Like here's three organizations, three or four organizations that ah all want to do something.
00:51:23
Speaker
We understand that by pulling all of our resources together, your money is going to go further. And here's how. Yeah. And so you've you touched on it a bit, um but is is there a feeling of hope and that that everything will just kind of right itself at some point?
00:51:39
Speaker
Or is it just going to be a long four years and followed by whatever comes next? Because I assume they're grooming ter wood um J.D. Vance to be the next. Yeah, I don't think J.D. Vance has the the theatrics to kind of follow up on Trump, right?
00:51:54
Speaker
And, you know, it is the thing that was a question whenever trump lost re-election is who can out trump trump the answer is nobody which is why he's back uh right um i look at the u.s political cycle and news cycle and in my head in my heart i'm like oh i really only have to hold out for 18 months because midterm elections are going to start coming up um people like I think the real ramifications from all that's happening are going to affect both conservative and liberal counties and individuals.
00:52:35
Speaker
And so all these Congress people who want to be reelected are going to have to answer in a way that they don't have to answer right now. And the the run for presidency usually actually starts like almost two years before yeah election happens, right?
00:52:52
Speaker
So... um Even ah Pete Buttigieg, he's not running for election in Congress. And I got a news story yesterday that they said that might be him making a run for 2028. I'm like, what are you talking about? So the fact that the news cycle is always thinking forward, I think is actually going to come to our advantage because ah Donald Trump He feeds off of the chaos and being a and being the headline.
00:53:24
Speaker
And the second that people start thinking past him, i think he's going to start floundering a little bit. I'm hoping ah hopeful. I'm very hopeful. Or he just dies all day. um Which, you know what? It's possible.
00:53:37
Speaker
I will say this on the internet because I've said in front of everybody. Whenever he got COVID during his first ah administration, i was like, God? Maybe this is it. god i was like, ah you
00:53:51
Speaker
are you? Oh, dear. There's a podcast um from the UK called The Rest is Politics, um which are former is done by former um ministers and people, one from each side of politics in the UK.
00:54:04
Speaker
And they've done some um episodes about J.D. Vance. And it's not very favourable, especially when J.D. Vance made the comment that some random country that hasn't been in wars for 30, 40 years implying that the UK is hasn't fought a war, which, you know, didn't go down well. And so they're just getting so angry and he's just saying the shit that he says.
00:54:26
Speaker
It's ridiculous. Yeah. And you know what? the ah The funny thing is I often wonder about like what his wife thinks because she's a woman of color and I'm like, how are you able to stand next to him ah during all of this?
00:54:42
Speaker
Money? Yeah, it's money and clout at this point. Yeah.
00:54:50
Speaker
I did enjoy that with if he got ran out of town in Vermont. um It was so good. Yeah. I was like, okay, this is the way that we fight back, right? yeah We say, do not come here.
00:55:02
Speaker
And I think they um think Trump and that really underestimate the the number of people in the US that aren't pro-Trump and, you know, making these and thinks he can make these decisions without any repercussions.
00:55:14
Speaker
um Yeah. And especially on the world stage, you know, this stupid thing around turning Gaza into a tourist resort. And it's like there's militia there. Like they won't, it won't happen. Like month comes from the people. you'd have to troops.
00:55:27
Speaker
Yeah. You would start is the last start a war. And the last thing you want to be is, uh, you say, I finished, I finished a war. And then you don't want to being a wartime president is not popular.
00:55:38
Speaker
No wartime leader is not popular period. and she started ah Exactly. And I, you know, um, there's a podcast, uh, kind of like the, the, the British one you mentioned here called left, right, and center where it's, um, uh, a radio host and someone on the left and someone on the right.
00:55:57
Speaker
And, ah Even the person on the right is like, this is not the way you do this. Like, this is not like what he's doing is ultimately not effective. But she brought up a couple of things that I thought was really, really, it has been helpful for me.
00:56:11
Speaker
One is that he loves to talk. So we can't always pay attention to what he says. And we just have to pay attention to what he does, because what he says is usually a distraction from what he does.
00:56:22
Speaker
um The second thing is that like all these executive orders are passed through legal counsel who know that, ah which is why a lot of the phrasing is very vague and has no teeth, because then he can go to his supporters and say, see, I did the thing. i tried to do a thing without actually having to do anything that's difficult.
00:56:42
Speaker
Yeah, because we are we i mean we know that executive orders is just doesn't not it doesn't change the law. doesn't stack up. It's just him signing obtusely on ah on a little folder for the show. Yeah, it's just a memo.
00:56:56
Speaker
Yeah. And so with that, i was like, oh, yeah, he's just he's pandering to his base who will then say, well, he did this. Well, he did this. Well, he did this.
00:57:07
Speaker
And um there will come a point where ah hopefully, knock on wood, that the individuals who were swing voters are saying, okay, I voted for you for this reason.
00:57:19
Speaker
now i Now I'm holding you accountable for it yeah and the receipts just aren't there. um ah The base is going to be the base, right? But really where it is are those people who...
00:57:31
Speaker
um And I looked at all the polls who said, I think that Harris would do a better job overall and has more compassion, but I think that Trump will quote unquote get results. So at this point time, we just have to be like, where are the results? Yeah.
00:57:46
Speaker
he's getting some kind of result, not necessarily. Not a good one. as The stock market says otherwise. Slide into recession. Yeah. Yeah. yeah i I have, I will say I have lost money,
00:57:59
Speaker
ah in my retirement over the past two months that i contribute a decent amount to. Yeah. Right. I see. We have, we have superannuation. Our employer contributes anyway. That's a whole other thing.
00:58:12
Speaker
Yeah. My, my, my employer contributes too. So based on both of our contributions, I'm like, the numbers should be bigger. Yeah. Yeah. um So, yeah, it's all just very tiring and I don't even live there.
00:58:26
Speaker
So I imagine would be quite exhausting and all-consuming and it's kind of hard to, especially being on social media and kind of just trying to deal with what's in your immediate world and this kind of like constant barrage of shit.
00:58:39
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. one of One of the things that's kind of kept me going is that there was this phrase during the AIDS epidemic ah here that said, they buried their friends in the morning, they protested in the afternoon, they danced at night, right? So really finding that cycle of...
00:58:54
Speaker
um mourning the things that need to be mourned, pushing back against the things that need to be pushed back against, but still allowing myself to have fun and and find joy and like, you know, still go to the movies and still, you know, dance to an album and be okay with going to a bar and like still going out to eat and visiting friends and seeing theater and participating in all the things that I love because I can't,
00:59:17
Speaker
ah just i can't let this consume me completely yeah or else, you know. Yeah. It'd be bad. Anyway, that's enough of that. So back to playwriting. Yes.
Creative Optimism and New Projects
00:59:28
Speaker
So just finally, um what are you excited about further for the future, like you as your career or kind of where playwriting is heading? Yeah, i think i think that we are on the cusp of – um massive reinvention within the American theater.
00:59:46
Speaker
I think the business model has had to change, um, since COVID. Uh, and I'm very sad that a lot of the institutions have closed. Um, but, uh, and the new play pipeline in America is,
01:00:01
Speaker
very broken right now. um ah lot Like there was the Humana Festival, there was the the Lark, there were all these centers that were centered around new player development that just lost funding and closed, which while it's very sad, also means that we have to find a new way of of doing and being um and kind of, you know, all the cards are on the table so we can do whatever we want, which is which is a lot of fun.
01:00:25
Speaker
um I see it as an opportunity. um But for me personally, I've been working ah for the past year or so with a songwriter who is absolutely brilliant on a Moby Dick musical adaptation called Kill the Whale.
01:00:42
Speaker
And, uh, the concept album is actually out on streaming services everywhere. Um, and we are really making headway towards trying to get this thing on its feet within the next 18 months.
01:00:56
Speaker
Um, which is great. Um, I have a couple other opportunities for development that are coming down the, the pike and really I've, I've, I've looped Toby into ah ah helping me with this uncle Vanya adaptation. Yeah. um So I'm going to start that soon. Yeah. I'm, I'm determined that even during this completely awful time to just continue to try to make as much as I can. Yeah. Yeah.
01:01:27
Speaker
um A, because I need tenure and so I have to make a lot. um Yeah, right. And B, like that's my response to the world. Yeah. um And people seem to like what I write, so I'm going to ride that until they don't, you know? Yeah, that's excellent.
01:01:43
Speaker
Well, thank you so much, TJ. It's been such been great to have a chat with you and hear what's going on on the other side of the world. same You know, it's scary over here, but know that ah we are we are being as optimistic as possible. Yeah. um And trying to keep the keep the faith.
01:02:00
Speaker
Yeah. Excellent. Well, thank you. Thank you.
01:02:07
Speaker
Thank you to TJ Young for a great chat with the extraordinary Georgia Malone. I will say that when Georgia asked me to write her play for her, I said no only because I knew that she should definitely write it herself.
01:02:21
Speaker
For someone who spent so much of her career behind the scenes pulling the strings while others held the spotlight, this was a chance for her to test out a new avenue for her distinctive, tough-minded and oh-so-hilarious voice.
01:02:34
Speaker
I'm pleased to say that her play, an insightful, absurdist, beautiful two-hander entitled Cup of Tea, is in the final stages of development and it's been my true honour to dramaturge for her.
01:02:46
Speaker
Look out for a reading very soon. For more information on many of the topics Georgia and TJ touched on, visit the Georgia Malone's Here Goes Nothing Substack at heregoesnothingpod.substack.com.
01:03:00
Speaker
Join Georgia next week for another great chat, this time with journalist, critic and arts advocate, Nina Levy. See you then. This podcast was made on Whadjuk Noongar Budja, a place I'm very privileged to call my home, and I acknowledge and honour all Noongar people that have been making art on this land for tens of thousands of years and will continue to do so for generations to come.
01:03:23
Speaker
Always was, always will be Aboriginal land. Original music by Lyndon Blue. This is a GM Productions Project.