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James Bond: Pierce Brosnan Era
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In this episode, join Satsunami and Adam as they venture into the world of James Bond once again. From the classics of Goldeneye and Tomorrow Never Dies to the less favourable The World is Not Enough and Die Another Day, what do the duo think of the Brosnan era of the franchise?
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Introduction
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Chatsunami.
00:00:17
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Chatsunami. I'm Satsunami and joining me today is a very special agent. He has a golden eye for these kind of films. He promises that tomorrow never lies. He always promises as well that the world is indeed not enough and he will try another day. Joining me today is Adam. Adam
00:00:41
Speaker
welcome back hello hello good to be back and thank you for stealing every single pun that i could possibly make in the intro so yeah i'm not even gonna try you stole them all oh come on don't pout no i'm gonna pout this will be a whole episode now sit in the corner you'll be like so what do you think i'm like i don't care you don't know if i real pun fuck
00:01:03
Speaker
So yeah, how are you doing today Adam? Other than that? Other than that, I'm doing fine, thank you very much. How about yourself? Not too shabby. Actually really happy that we are going to be talking about James Bond again today.
Reflections on Pierce Brosnan as Bond
00:01:15
Speaker
It feels good, it's like slipping into a comfortable pair of slippers once again. Feeling familiar territory. A comfortable pair of slippers that have a switchblade in the tip.
00:01:24
Speaker
I mean of course, I mean it's the only pair of slippers you'd want surely. Because we have done two episodes so far, well technically three episodes of James Bond, we've done a retrospective for the Timothy Dalton era, we've done a retrospective for the Daniel Craig era and we've also done a review for No Time To Die. Yeah, now we're moving on to the next James Bond on our list, that of course being
00:01:47
Speaker
probably the more agreeable one out of the ones we've got left, Piers Brosnan. So Adam, before we go into the main episode, what are your memories and experiences with this particular run of James Bond? I think like a lot of people my age, Piers Brosnan was the Bond actor that I grew up with. The very first Bond film that I saw was Dine Other Day, which was Brosnan's last film.
00:02:11
Speaker
I'd never seen a Bond film before, but I went to somebody's birthday party and we went to the cinema to go see Die Another Day. And it's the film that actually got me hooked into the Bond films. And after that, you know, I went back and I got copies of all the older films, watched them all, loved them. So really, the Brosnan run really sparked a love of the kind of franchise for me that, you know, as much as my opinions have changed on a lot of them now, like I still do, I still do retain a fondness for the Bond film. So it's important to me in that respect for kicking off my interest in it.
00:02:39
Speaker
I have to admit, Piers Brosnan was definitely the Bond of the late 90s in the early 2000s, wasn't he? He was like the kind of iconic image whenever you thought of James Bond. Obviously, you know, you've got your culinary fans, your moors, your Lazenby sympathisers, the Timothy Dalton group, which I know you and I are part of. The Dalton Defenders is like all this.
00:03:02
Speaker
oh yeah yeah you tried mailing the t-shirt to me i'm not wearing that Adam come on please getting badges made and everything well if you turn them into pokes then maybe already considered
00:03:13
Speaker
Of course, why not think of that? And speaking of dated references, yeah, I actually remember the Peers of Frozen films coming on TV quite a lot during probably the mid-2000s, where, you know, you had your Golden Eye coming on, your Tamora Never Dies, your As a Sideboard's Not Enough, and the less said about it, the better Die Another Day, which came out in 2002, I wanna say, and that was kind of the unfortunate swan song.
00:03:41
Speaker
to Pierce Brosnan's run as James Bond before they moved on to the darker times of playing a central role in Mamma Mia. Unfortunately Mamma Mia is not going to be featured in this episode so if that's what you tuned in to hear tonight I'm sorry, I'm really sorry he had to find out this way. I feel Mamma Mia is more of an official James Bond film than whatever the last one, that unofficial one that Connery did, the remake of Thunderball. What never say never.
00:04:07
Speaker
That's the one, and they always escape me there from an aisle. Film Mama Mia is A, a better film, and B, more keeping of the canon of Bond. You know, you're not wrong. One day we'll all review that, but yeah, until then we're gonna have to reel ourselves back into the past, which makes me feel like an old man thinking, my God, we grew up in this time. Because it's like with the Dalton series, and I mean, obviously we grew up with the Daniel Craig ones as well, but with like the Dalton series, the Roger Moore, the Sean Connery, the Lazenby,
00:04:37
Speaker
yeah we weren't really around for obvious reasons but this was kind of the star of, is it right to say like our formative experience with the franchise? Well I think so, I mean certainly for myself anyway because I was 9 or 10, I can't remember exactly when Dine Every Day was released, what month it was but I was 9 or 10 you know at that time so right in that right in those formative years where you're building you know your interests in different things. And of course there were the games which
00:05:03
Speaker
Say in all honesty, I know there's technically games before Goldeneye, but I don't actually remember there being any particular games that were as popular here.
GoldenEye: Game-Changer for Bond and Gaming
00:05:15
Speaker
Yeah, you're right. There technically were games before, but honestly, we might as well say there weren't really.
00:05:21
Speaker
before GoldenEye for all the impact they made. Unless there is one out there that I'm just not giving them their fair due, but I don't think any of them had the impact that GoldenEye did. Because that was certainly a trailblazer at the time, it paved the way for all these different FPS shooters. Look at time splitters too, that had pretty much the same gameplay style didn't it?
00:05:43
Speaker
Yeah, exactly, Timesplitters was like a clone of that, perfect dark. Lots of those shooters of the late 90s to early 2000s were clones of GoldenEye, so it was really, really important in that respect. And that kind of just solidified it, didn't it? And really just the general discussion of the franchise, because you also had,
00:06:03
Speaker
the world is not enough had a game tomorrow never dies definitely hard one for the yeah they both did that they both had tomorrow never does was a weird sort of like third-person shooter game that I don't think was very well received and the world is not enough went back to the first person for the but I think it wasn't on the rails or maybe it was because I think it was released on like Nintendo 64 and PlayStation
00:06:23
Speaker
And I think maybe the PlayStation version was like on the rails, you know, almost like a kind of like House of the Dead type thing, which was slightly better received than obviously dying every day. Never had a game until 10 years later when it was included in the quote unquote tribute to the, to the franchise, it was double O seven legends. Your favorite game. Oh, my favorite game. I'm sure, I'm sure maybe at some point down the line, we will discuss, discuss double seven legends, but I don't want, I don't want to poison this episode with, with my vitriol for that game.
00:06:48
Speaker
Between that and watching Terminator's salvation, that's just a perfect evening for you. Oh, exactly. My favourite game and my favourite film is publicly stated by my dear friend, my dear friend. The person who only has the best, only has my best interests at heart, it's that tsunami. He said with clenched teeth.
00:07:11
Speaker
Anyway, before I get shanked by my co-host here... They were not in the same room. Exactly. I was actually, did I tell you that? Before we begin, I actually put a tweet out the other day where someone was asking, oh, what's a fun fact about your podcast? And I was like, I have never filmed like a podcast or rather, I've never recorded a podcast in the same room as any of my co-hosts. That's kind of crazy to think, isn't it? Make it extra special when that eventually happens.
00:07:38
Speaker
I mean, it's like nearly a hundred episodes later. Like, we're not too far off. I think we're about seven, maybe? Six or seven episodes off that? After this one's really staying at bay. Maybe even less, but it's crazy to think that we still haven't done one together together. Although we did meet up to watch Starship Troopers, but the list said about that encounter in the theatre.
00:08:00
Speaker
that soured the life, in-person experience. I think that's why we haven't seen each other since. I just, I had to walk away. It's because I care about you Adam, I had to walk away. The only way to ensure that you get the right pizza. That's true. You and I both.
00:08:17
Speaker
and yeah before we jump in Adam have you got your surfer board and your parachute and your sunglasses and your Madonna references ready yeah they're all stored in my invisible car on board my big drill submarine ship would you believe minus that last one those were references to the same one
00:08:40
Speaker
I know. I spoiled it. I spoiled it by taking a little bit of emotion. I kept going with my VR headset, which is not an uncomfortable block on your face, but rather a nifty pair of sunglasses. Hold on. We are going to take just a quick break. I'm going to get the diamonds out of my face and yeah, I'll get out my belly button.
00:09:01
Speaker
Oh, why did you make... Oh, you actually reminded me of a very key point. Thank you for that. So I'm just gonna write that down. We will be right back after these messages. Welcome to Chatsunami, a variety podcast that talks about topics from gaming and films to streaming in general interest. Previously on Chatsunami, we discussed Game of the Decade, Deadly Premonition, the romantic thriller, Birdemic, and listen to us get all sappy as we discuss our top five Christmas films.
00:09:29
Speaker
If that sounds like your cup of tea, then you can find us an anchor, Spotify, YouTube and all good podcast apps. As always, stay safe, stay awesome and most importantly, stay hydrated.
00:09:42
Speaker
We are Beer and Chill Podcast. Podcast where we review TV shows, games, movies, and whatever else takes our fancy. So what are you waiting for? If you're a cool kid like us, you're gonna listen to the Beer and Chill Podcast. You can get it anywhere from Spotify all the way to your grandma's radio. My name is Jan. And I'm Cricky C. And we are Beer and Chill.
00:10:17
Speaker
So while we start at the very beginning and dive into what solidified Pierce Brosnan as the quintessential James Bond. Let's do it, let's start at the height. In 1995, coming off his fame from Remington Steel, Pierce Brosnan slipped into the role of James Bond and
00:10:38
Speaker
Is it right to say, Adam, that he was actually considered airware? Yes, so he was originally considered to be the replacement for Roger Moore in the late 80s, after Avita Akil and Roger Moore decided to step away. Pierce Brosnan was lined up to take the role, but unfortunately for him, just as he was about to be announced as James Bond, that TV series that you mentioned, Remington Steel, which he'd sort of made his fame on, was renewed for another season, so he was contractually obliged to do that. So basically they had to scrap those plans and Timothy Dalton
00:11:07
Speaker
was given the role of Bond, but after a kind of disappointing box office performance of License to Kill and a kind of very mixed critical and audience reception to that film, 6-7 years of Limbo, Dalton, Timothy Dalton left the role and then P.S. Brosnan was able to step back into it again.
Analyzing GoldenEye's Cultural Impact
00:11:22
Speaker
I was going to ask, I suppose you're quite happy at that. I mean, I'm not happy that Timothy Dalton only got two films, but you know, Timothy Dalton came in a bad time, I think.
00:11:32
Speaker
I don't know if Pierce Brosnan would have done any better, to be honest. I feel like the films were in a kind of bad place at that point. Even though I think Living Daylights and License to Kill are excellent films, it'd only get better, I think, with age. But, you know, things happen. And, you know, Brosnan, I think, happened to come in at a good time, a right time, for him, certainly anyway, for his sort of legacy.
00:11:51
Speaker
It is weird to think though that he could have been this star for the living daylights and things and how different that film would have came across. Can you imagine him in a license to kill being dark and gritty? Don't get me wrong, he can act really serious when he wants to but I don't know.
00:12:09
Speaker
if you would have that same kind of seriousness as Timothy Dalton, but I mean, they're both quite different actors, aren't they? Oh, they definitely are. I mean, Dalton is a stage actor. I think kind of first and foremost, that's where he's cut his bones. I don't think Brosnan, you know, I think Brosnan's always been a sort of... I'm saying that. I think he's always been like a television film actor. He may well have done stage craft as well.
00:12:31
Speaker
But I don't know. They are very different. You're completely right in saying that. I don't know. For me personally, I just don't think Brosnan could have done what Dalton did. Whether the films were adapted to reflect that, and they might have been very different films, perhaps good in their own way, they certainly would not have been what they were with Dalton at the helm. Just because, again, as you say, they are quite different actors. But personally, I prefer Dalton to Brosnan. But that's not to put down Brosnan in any way. I'm talking he's a fine actor.
00:13:00
Speaker
that's just kind of personal preference but yeah I don't know do you think that would have been like a kind of noticeable difference? I think mainly because if you look at his portrayal in Goldeneye and I don't know if it's just because it was like a reaction to how serious the last two films were
00:13:17
Speaker
Because if you think about it, the last two films were towards the end of the Cold War era. So, you know, the Soviet Union was collapsing. It was during the late 80s and everything. There was still that era of spies at their height, if that makes sense. Whereas when it transitioned into the late 90s, you know, the Soviet Union had collapsed and Goldeneye followed on from like the aftermath.
00:13:42
Speaker
from the transition for the Soviet Union into just Russia as it is today but I don't know if he would have brought a more serious tone to it because obviously that's what they wanted and again if you think about it the James Bond films are very reactionary like would you agree with that the very reactionary to the kind of times
00:14:05
Speaker
They definitely are reactionary as well, but they also seem to have this, certainly with maybe some of the more recent ones, and particularly of the kind of Brosnan era, they almost seem to have this desire not to offend though as well, if that makes sense. So as much as, for instance, let's take like the Living Daylights, you know, or GoldenEye or something.
00:14:22
Speaker
As much as the Soviet Union or Russia are the bad guys in that film, there's also the good and great pains to show, oh, it's not actually this country or this government. It's like rogue elements within. And that kind of seems to be in a recurrent theme for, I'd say, a lot of the Bond films. I'm struggling to think of one that has out and out, or the Soviet Union, for instance, is the bad guy.
00:14:45
Speaker
You know, there always seems to be some kind of caveat to it, but you're right in saying that they are reactionary as well. It is sort of a lot of the enemy of the time, enemy of the moment, whoever that is, you know, in kind of Western perception does often seem to at least be linked to, you know, the bad guys of a particular Bond film.
00:15:01
Speaker
But it is just weird wondering whether or not Brosnan would have brought a more serious… like obviously his character is really up to the writers and the directors and things like that. I think he would have a kind of… like he would be able to spin on them, but I don't know how much that would carry through of him being cheeky and everything when, for example, in The Living Daylights when they're blowing up the base in Afghanistan and something.
00:15:27
Speaker
you know like he could be riding away saying something like oh things are getting spicy and you're like well no no that's just not going to fit because even after that even towards the end of Timothy Dalton's run there were a couple of like awkward moments where he would like see a pun and you would be like
00:15:45
Speaker
Oh, it just doesn't fit, like you're the forklift seen from License to Kill where he says he got the point or something and it sounds as if it's like dubbed over. Yeah, I would argue, I don't know what you film is, I think the best of the Dalton one-liners were like the really like maniacal, sadistic ones, you know when in License to Kill where they've got like the corrupt agent and he's like hanging over the shark pit.
00:16:09
Speaker
And then he's got the money, and he's like, oh, I'll have the money with you. And Dalton's bond is like, it's your money. You earned it. And just throws the briefcase at him. That for me was the best of when Dalton was doing those one-liners. If there was humor, it was the blackest of black humor. It was more like just sadistic threats rather than quippy like, oh, you know, pip, pip, chit-chit, you know, whatever. You're a cunning linguist. Not that kind of one-liner that was very much a staple of certainly the Moore era and also kind of the Brosnan era of bonds as well.
00:16:38
Speaker
I mean the Rose of the Neera is pretty much propped up by puns and we'll get into it later but especially dad jokes and things like that because I remember and this is kind of going slightly off topic once again but I remember going to see Quantum of Solace with my dad in the cinema and remember him coming out and
00:16:57
Speaker
obviously no surprise he wasn't a big fan of it but one of the things that he did mention wasn't because you know it obviously wasn't written that well but more because it didn't have the same kind of humor and gadgets and things that's what he said oh the old james bonds had the gadgets the one liners the quips as i said the kind of cheekiness behind it all but with
00:17:20
Speaker
the Craig era, which is something we discussed in the right respect of it's a lot more gritty and serious and things. And I think the Brosnan era definitely kept up that status quo. To borrow a phrase from Roger Moore, he did keep the British end up when it came to this kind of relatively jovialness to spy work.
00:17:39
Speaker
but especially for his debut in Goldeneye. So for those of you who don't know, Goldeneye is really setting the fallout of the Soviet Union. So about, it's four years after the fall of the Soviet Union and Balloons ends up going on a mission prior to that. He goes on a mission with one of his colleagues, played by Sean Bean, you know where this is going. Sean Bean unfortunately gets killed in action at the beginning.
00:18:06
Speaker
of the mission, so he ends up escaping, getting put on temporary leave, and then he realises there's a conspiracy from a splinter group within the Russian Federation who wanna cause trouble and hijack a satellite called Golden Eye. There's also a woman that chokes men with her thighs. I feel as if that's the summariest of summaries I can get out of that, is there anything I missed? No, the only thing he missed was, I'm invincible! But apart from that, he got everything else.
00:18:35
Speaker
I love Boris, I think he's just so fun. I think that's the great thing about Goldeneye, everybody is a lot of fun to watch. I'll come to it in a second but the majority of characters have such a personality to them. You've got the Russian general who
00:18:56
Speaker
Remember the scene where you've got the big set piece where Brosnan's driving the tank down St Petersburg? It's so good, that scene. And you know he's got the hip flask and he's drinking as they're driving away and things. It's just amazing. The action in it is great. The one-liners are great. It's actually the perfect premiere film for a new James Bond and everything. It really doesn't put a foot wrong, I think, for the most part. It's a really well-crafted film.
00:19:23
Speaker
And the soundtrack as well, I mean the soundtrack's just iconic.
00:19:27
Speaker
You know, it's funny, a lot of people don't like the soundtrack. You know, it's very gritty and quite, this is gonna make me sound like a hipster that knows what I'm talking about when it comes to music, I really don't, I'm tone deaf, but it sounds quite industrial, if that makes sense. It's like a deliberate choice as well because you're completely right, there's like a lot of like metal clanging sounds at points. I really like it, I think it's very effective and I think it was good at signalling this kind of, this was like a kind of revamp.
00:19:54
Speaker
revamp of the Bond franchise for a new era, especially as you say, now that we're in a post-Cold War world, what's Bond's place? And I thought the soundtrack did well for that, but it's interesting that a lot of people don't like it, just because maybe it does sound, it sounds off to them, it doesn't sound like the classic Bond soundtracks they were used to.
00:20:11
Speaker
I wouldn't say it's my favourite, you know, you wouldn't go and listen to it over and over again and be like, oh, this is a bop. But in terms of setting the tone and things, especially as we established this post-Cold War era in which you and I were both born into, what's the meme that goes around it's like, too late to see the end of the Cold War, but born too early to be a TikTok star? The Venn diagram screws up for that one.
00:20:41
Speaker
But yeah, I think it does give it a distinctive identity, and I think that's what this film needed. It needed its own identity from as much as all of the Dalton films. It needed its identity from the Dalton films, from the Brewer films, from Connery and Lazen Bay, and David Niven. I'm going to throw him a bone.
00:21:00
Speaker
but yeah it does definitely do a good job and of course that carried over when they made the game as well because I think it was a guy called Grant Kirkhoat who did the soundtrack for GoldenEye the game I mean and either way absolutely fantastic. Fun fact though did you know the guys who made the GoldenEye game were the same company that made Banjo-Kazooie?
00:21:22
Speaker
Oh, of course, because it was Rareware, wasn't it? And we never heard from them. A lot of them would go on to make Timesplitters. Really? Yeah. Yeah, that's probably why it's so inspired. But not all of them, but a lot of them went on to left Rare to form that free radical that went on to make the Timesplitters series before that. It was also shot down. I don't know where they would end up after that. I actually didn't know that.
00:21:42
Speaker
You know, another piece of the puzzle. So before we move on to the next film, is there anything you didn't like about this film? Honestly, not really. There's nothing I can really think of that I don't like. I mean, for me, the Brosnan era was this attempt to kind of walk a line between the Moore and Dalton eras of Bond, an attempt almost to blend both of those kind of those elements together because Dalton and Moore's bonds were very, very different.
00:22:08
Speaker
They might be the ones that if we were to draw a diagram of the Bond things, they might be on the complete opposite ends of the spectrum. So it almost felt like Brosnan's Bond was an attempt to marry those two elements. And I don't think any Brosnan film did it better than GoldenEye. I really love the plot and the story to GoldenEye. I think it has a good amount of fun to it, but it also has some really good serious elements to it, the really good dramatic elements that grip you and drag you in. I love virtually all the characters in this film.
00:22:37
Speaker
Obviously I'm not the biggest fan of the main Bond girl, Natalia Simanova. She's fine, there's nothing wrong with her, I just don't think she's anything that special. But again, that's the biggest criticism I'm leveling against it, it's like somebody was fine. There's these great fun elements like Boris and Xenia on the top and things that you feel like belong in the Moore era, but at the same time we have a really interesting revenge plot in there that almost feels more akin to the Dalton era of Bond.
00:23:04
Speaker
Honestly, I think it's a great film, and I think it's also a fascinating cultural document, because as you say, this is steeped in this post-Cold War new world that we're in, and it's like, where is Bond's place in this? Is there a reason for him to exist now the Cold War is done? And I think this film
00:23:19
Speaker
had a really interesting way of looking at that you know and kind of positing like new threats that could emerge in the aftermath of the cold war and you know having Bond kind of have to adapt to a new era for as much as the character doesn't really change you know Brosnan Bond doesn't really change that much from his predecessors but it was still interesting that he was at least confronted by this changing environment so honestly I can't really level any criticisms against this film I think it's just really good and I think it's so much fun to watch and I think it's aged
00:23:46
Speaker
really really well. I would agree
Exploration of Tomorrow Never Dies
00:23:48
Speaker
with that. I do think that of all the Bond films it certainly has its like place in the kind of like top tier of the Bond pantheon as it were. There are some criticisms I would have against it going on what you were saying about certain characters. Like personally I absolutely I do really like
00:24:07
Speaker
Again, I wouldn't say she's the best Bongero Adugri in that sense, but I actually didn't mind Natalia. I thought it was quite good that she was independent, and I know she has her damsel in distress moments, which you kind of think, oh great, here we go Bond coming to save the day.
00:24:25
Speaker
I mean she did prove herself capable in other regards and I thought okay we're going in the right direction, okay we're not falling back to like Connery era, the less said about that the better of course. But another fun fact of course is that Judi Dench makes her first debut as M in the franchise, which I have to admit she was really iconic as the, she has the first female M
00:24:49
Speaker
isn't she? Certainly in the series she was. Before they got Ralph Fiennes, Leathery Husk and No Time To Die.
00:24:56
Speaker
whether the hell was going on there, but anyway, sorry. Yeah, I mean, again, going back to what you were saying, she makes like a very interesting point where she challenges Bond and says, you're like, does she call him a dinosaur or something like that? A mythogenistic dinosaur, I believe, is a relic of the Cold War. Exactly. And I do like the fact that, again, as you said, they're kind of challenging how Bond can fit into like the modern era of spies and things like that.
00:25:26
Speaker
The one thing I will challenge is Xena on the top. You made an interesting point when I brought this up to you while I was watching the film. The fact that she does look the actress, I mean she does look as if she's just having such a good time with this like ridiculous character that goes around killing men with her thighs but I'm honestly on the fence. I'm like is this so silly that it's good or is it just dumb entirely? Is this like
00:25:52
Speaker
the only kind of carryover from the past films like, you know, Octopussy, Dr Gootage, Pussy Galore, are we regressing back to that era? But not too much, I mean at least she's kind of capable of dispatching people but what did you think of that? Do you know what? I think conceptually your criticisms are fair and I do think if you just looked at this character on paper you're like
00:26:15
Speaker
Yeah. I'm not sure about this. I think it all comes down to the acting and Famica Jansen is the actor who plays this. She's also quite famous for having played Jean Grey in the original X-Men trilogy of films. I think she just does a fantastic job.
00:26:31
Speaker
and it was rewatching it recently that I just came to absolutely adore this character and she looks like she's just having the most fun. She just throws herself into this role with a plumb and just everything she does there's a scene where obviously the scenes where she's like crushing men with her thighs are probably the most memorable ones.
00:26:48
Speaker
But there's also a scene where she has like a kind of, I'm gonna say like half sexual encounter, half fight with Bond in a sauna, which I think is great. But there's one scene as well in the kind of first half of the film where she arrives with one of the main other baddies, General Urimov. They arrive at the kind of Golden Eye satellite station and she just begins to like shoot everybody in the place. And she has this just like orgasmic like kind of
00:27:11
Speaker
her face as she's doing it and I just think it's brilliant. I honestly there's a reason this character is so well remembered and it's just because it's all because of Famica Yance it's like full credit to her and I just to me just watching this I just think she's such a memorable such a fun character honestly she might be one of my favorite characters the whole Bond series I think it's just it's just incredible
00:27:32
Speaker
I think it's just the perfect way to take something that conceptually is so stupid and seems really dumb and just to make such a brilliant, or from my perspective, a brilliant character with it. I'm just in awe. That's the thing though, even if you have criticism about this film, at least
00:27:50
Speaker
they're all memorable you know like all the characters are memorable the set pieces are memorable we've got Robby Coltrane of course as I think it's only one of two appearances as Valentin what's his second name again Zukovsky I think yeah that guy you know yeah Russian Robby okay that's what it's called now that should have been his name why was that not his name
00:28:12
Speaker
MGM if you want to call us. You know where we are. If you want to do a George Lucas style re-edit of GoldenEye. What you mean by the terrible actors of that? My name is Russian Ravi. And that is as far as I go in the Duolingo course. That's how I know. That's as far as I go.
00:28:38
Speaker
Yeah, that's it. Naturally, I know no other Russian. But speaking of me going on to butcher another language, will we move on to the next film, Tomorrow Never Dies? I need to get my news. I'm going to be honest, when I re-watch this film, I actually had a lot more fun with this than I remember because
00:29:00
Speaker
To Moderna Paradise is one of those films that always came on, at least in the UK it was a channel called ITV2 where they would always rerun old Bond films and I would catch like snippets of it before someone changed his channel. I thought it was alright but as soon as I sat down and watched it from start to finish, I have really enjoyed this one. So the plot of this one is a bit more, I was gonna say a bit more scaled back but maybe not quite, where a medium, really?
00:29:29
Speaker
No, I totally remembered about the nuclear warhead. Okay, do you remember there's a giant freaking torpedo drill and stealth ship? I mean, all media moguls have them, come on. Of course, you know, what do you think Rupert Murdoch's been doing? I've not heard what he's been up to this time, must be building his stealth ship. I think they've been watching GB news recently.
00:29:51
Speaker
that piers morgan's next project what you think is the french that are like driving away the british fisherples no it's piers morgan and he's oh my god i love it for legal reasons and the panda is waving me down for legal reasons and that's a joke that is a joke i am joking any people that rhyme with schmear schmorgen you know it's totally coincidental
00:30:19
Speaker
Oh man, we're off at Christmas Card List. Oh, we are. Or maybe we're on it. We're giving him free publicity here. He'll love that. That's true. I'm not getting hired to GB News any types of... Oh man, my dream job. That's why I was working on this podcast series so I could slide into a role as analyst on GB News. What do you think? Um, thank you. Very good.
00:30:41
Speaker
Anyway, sorry, do you mean those bashing us? Yeah, it's about a media mogul, and I'm talking about tomorrow, never mind. It's about a media mogul who... I still can't get that image of, you know, who written that software. So yeah, it's about a media mogul who decides to try and instigate World War III between the British and the Chinese with, as you said, his stealth submarine.
00:31:05
Speaker
don't know how that works because I mean technically aren't all submitting still there. And Bond has to stop this guy from, yeah, causing World War 3 and they have to team up with Leland who is played by Michelle Yeoh, am I right in saying? Yep, you're correct. And they have to team up and take down this guy. Honestly!
00:31:24
Speaker
I love it. I think it was a lot of fun. I loved the fact that the character of Wei Lin was just this utter badass throughout the film, that Bond was his same kind of jovial self but took it seriously. But it has one of the worst deaths in it and I think I text you at the time, do you remember? Do you know what, it's one of these ones that I used to think back and think it was really funny and then I watched it and I was like, wow that's actually horrifying!
00:31:50
Speaker
I think it's probably the most brutal death in the entire Brosnan run. Oh definitely. I think the only one that's more brutal in the whole of the Bond series is Milton Keynes.
00:32:06
Speaker
When the town of Milton Keynes had all their heads blown up. Do you know the guy I mean in License to Kill who gets put in the air pressure riser and his head gets... Do you know I was just thinking that exact scene. I thought that is the only other scene. I think that traumatised me as a child when I watched License to Kill when I was far too young.
00:32:23
Speaker
that's the only one that I think is probably more brutal than The Death and Tomorrow Never Dies. Oh yeah, and for anyone who doesn't know what we're talking about, basically there's like a huge, it's like a saw slash drill thing and he just grabs him and he just shoves the main villain who, because I just say the main villain is like this very sleazy, witty, media mogul type person. He's not a fighter, he's not
00:32:46
Speaker
Brawler, he's just an average Joe going against a commander in the Secret Service, and Pott just grabs him and shoves him into this thing. Because the only other time we've seen a death like that, as far as I remember, unless there's maybe one in the corner here, is in License to Kill, when Remember the Drug Dealer falls into it but gets obscured by all the mist.
00:33:08
Speaker
Oh yeah, Benny Hildor Toro ground up. But we don't see that, we just see the pink smoke that comes up from the drugs that are getting put in there and that was kind of cleverly done but this is just brutal. The only thing I would say about this film though is the villains, other than obviously the media mogul, the villains aren't that memorable. We've got the German guy, we've got the
00:33:32
Speaker
I forgot about the doctor. We have ways of making you talk. Yeah, very good. Yeah, very good. All to my right, that character. So remember how we were saying that's how far, in Golden Eye, that's how far we got in the dual lingo course, or Russian. Yeah, that's how far we got for the German course.
00:33:52
Speaker
The war is over for you. Exactly. That's exactly what he was like. He was just like such a stereotype. You know, he might as well have kicked down the door and been like, this is a brat of a situation for you. You would have been like, what is it? Who is this clown to you? Is this Joker coming in? Here's a question for you, though. Do you think that this film was the beginning of the end for the Boston run when it came to celebrity cameos? Because we've got Terry Hatcher,
00:34:19
Speaker
is one of the secondary love interests in this one. I see what you mean. I would probably slightly disagree only for the fact that I think that they at least tried to give Terry Hatcher interesting stuff to do. I don't think it fully works and I don't think... So Terry Hatcher plays character called Paris Carver who is the wife of the main villain of the film who it turns out had a previous relationship with Bond.
00:34:45
Speaker
And they kind of play on that in the film and it's an interesting idea. I just, and again, I admire the film for trying to do that. I just don't think it devotes enough time to it. And then basically Harris ends up dying about the halfway point. She's killed and they try to make it an emotional moment, but it doesn't quite work because I just don't think enough time has been devoted to it. And also then we have German stereotype doctor in the room being like, I am a professional, you know, do all this. It just completely undercutting any kind of emotion they're trying to get in the scene.
00:35:14
Speaker
But I kind of admire that at least they tried to give Terry Hatcher something interesting to do, while later on I think it really did fall into the kind of like, look, here's some celebrities, let's just throw them at the dartboard and hope something works. But I can see what you mean in that they're probably, you can probably trace, you know, from Tomorrow Never Dies to the later incidents in the Brosnan run. Is there anything they all shoot with Levy against this film?
00:35:37
Speaker
Going back to the idea of the Brosnan run falling between the moor and the Dalton eras, where I think that Gold and I walked the line perfectly, I think that Tomorrow Never Dies strays a bit too far into the kind of moor goofiness, and I think for as much- I actually agree with you when you said how much fun you actually had rewatching this film. This is a film that used to make me kind of roll my eyes when I thought about it because I was like, oh it's so stupid, it's so silly.
00:36:01
Speaker
And I still think it is, but I actually had fun watching it again. I think it is a good watch, if nothing else. It's not, I don't think it's anywhere near the quality of GoldenEye. And I wouldn't rate it as one of my favorite Bond films, but I do think you can have fun watching it. I think it strays a bit too far into the kind of goofiness. One thing that I think is funny about the film is I think the main villain and the whole kind of premise, his basic role, as you said, is he's trying to stir up a war so he can get like, he can be like the person to cover it on the scene. And also as well, he can get like broadcast, exclusive broadcasting rights in China.
00:36:30
Speaker
I think it was very topical at the time but I think it swiftly became very very antiquated and ancient but ironically it's now kind of gone full circle and I think it's actually in many ways quite topical again with sort of like fake news you know and issues like that but yeah I think it's just a bit too goofy this film it's probably it's probably the thing I would level the most against I think Michelle Yao is great and I really like her character I think
00:36:51
Speaker
Pierce Brosnan is good in this overall. And the story is stupid, but I think it's still fun enough that you can enjoy it. So again, I don't really have too many major, apart from the kind of, you know, the stereotypical German doctor and some of the ideas being a bit too half baked. I don't really have any massive issue with this film, I have to admit. Who really hated that doctor, didn't you? Tell me I'm wrong. Give me one reason why that character is not objectionable. Because it's in tomorrow's paper. Oh, there you go.
00:37:21
Speaker
10 out of 10. That was a weirdo. Why they gave him a VHS? Do you think he was watching that and whoop while they waited for Bowen to her? He's going to do something. What else do the German doctors do? What I laughed at was see the other German thug that works for Carver. And he's like, oh, he was my mentor and everything. And he talks about the, what is it, like the chakra torture device or something? Oh, yeah. He was my PhD supervisor. My dissertation on the chakra torture. He's like, what?
00:37:50
Speaker
this film. I do agree with you though. Before we move on to the next one, I do totally agree with you. Goldeneye, although obviously we established about some things like, you know, border reasons, you know, on the top and things, it does balance that line between the comical and the seriousness. For this, as you said, it has come full circle nowadays and it does definitely
00:38:13
Speaker
feel more realistic in some regards but the scales are definitely balancing into the goofy stages. And do you know what's ironic? I'm quite curious to hear what you think about this but do you not think that the longer a James Bond actor's in the role
00:38:29
Speaker
the more goofier the films become. So look at Daniel Craig, you know his first couple were very serious and gritty and things and don't get me wrong they technically still are but towards the end with like Spectre and No Time to Die they just became this stereotypical buns that we're used to with all the gadgets, the one liners, that kind of thing.
00:38:48
Speaker
You're completely right, I think Connery suffered the most from this. If you look at Connery's first three films, Dr. Nolan from Russia With Love are very, very grounded. Well, for the most part, are very grounded films. Goldfinger, there's a little bit more into that kind of goofy territory, but I still think it works. But then past that, those last three films, Culminating in Diamonds Are Forever, are just like...
00:39:09
Speaker
are just preposterous in every way. And you could argue Moore was the same, although Moore started off pretty preposterous as well. Maybe that's why Dalton is my favourite. Didn't have enough time for his want to become goofy and preposterous. Well, I mean, it's the same with Lazenby, whose wife's literally shot at the end of the film. Spoiler alert, he didn't even get a chance. Imagine Lazenby said on that was a trope at the end of every of his films. Oh god. He got married and no one got killed in just increasingly elaborate ways. And on that note, I'm moving on before I get myself depressed.
00:39:39
Speaker
So of course the third film of the run was The World Is Not Enough, which I like this film, but there are certain elements that are not
00:39:50
Speaker
huge fan of. For example, I like the fact that Elon Donin is in the castle in Scotland next to Sky, which I actually visited this year. Not because I'm a big Bond fan, but I was just passing the area. And it was like, oh, Elon Donin. And yeah, nope, it's a great place. By the way, we're not representatives of Visit Scotland or anything like that. But if you're listening to something
00:40:11
Speaker
Give us a call. Because it was you that pointed that out, wasn't it? I think so. I can't remember if you'd gone up there before we'd respectfully watched these films. Yeah, I think I think I pointed out. Oh, do you know the castle? And you were like, Oh, I do. I've just been there. So in the boat, just not enough. It takes some more serious kind of
00:40:29
Speaker
approach but not quite. I think it suffers from the same problems as Tomorrow Never Dies. Like it's trying to tell a serious story of revenge and heartbreak and things like that but at the same time you've just got really really goofy villains and side characters. Whereas we had like Michelle Yeoh as we said as Wei Lin in Tomorrow Never Dies and she was like this such a cool kick-ass Chinese secret agent and then I think
00:40:58
Speaker
I think she was supposed to come back for the world is not enough but they got Denise Richards instead.
The World Is Not Enough: Successes and Flaws
00:41:04
Speaker
That could be wrong in that but I'm sure there's a rumor for that that she was meant to come back or have a spin-off. What an upgrade. I know. Michelle, you owe to Denise Richards.
00:41:14
Speaker
we could have had versus what we got. This is the thing again, I know I complained about Zeno on the top going into those Pussy Galore tier names, but my god, Christmas Jones, I don't get it. I genuinely don't get the joke. Adam, what's the joke?
00:41:29
Speaker
The joke is they came up with the line, I thought Christmas only came once every year and they worked back from that. That is exactly it. You're not wrong. It's as if they came up with that joke and they're like, okay, how do they write a character around this name? And you're like, how do we tortuously fit this into this film?
00:41:47
Speaker
It is awful. No offense to Denise Richards, I'm sure she's a lovely person in real life, but her character was just… I think a lot of people levy the criticism against the like, oh look she's an attractive woman and a smart person role and things like that. I don't think that's the issue, I just think the issue is the writers had no idea what to do with her character, she's just kind of there. She floats about like a bad smell almost. But sorry, before I go on and dissect it,
00:42:14
Speaker
Yeah, the plot of The World Is Not Enough is Bon trying to find the killer of a... is it like the daughter of a millionaire, billionaire, trillionaire, a trillionaire, Swiss banker? Yeah, it's something like the... we don't think we're really ever quite clear what the...
00:42:30
Speaker
Some fat cat imperialist basically is murdered in MI6 headquarters and Bond is then tasked to protect his daughter from this international terror group headed by Robert Carlyle's Renard who's tangled with the daughter's family previously as they're building this kind of new oil pipeline. Can I just say I love Robert Carlyle. I think he's a fantastic actor. He's done some amazing films but that character is so stupid.
00:43:00
Speaker
so dumb. The whole premise of Renard is the fact that he was shot in the head, but the bullet didn't go all the way through. So it slowly is burrowing into his brain until it kills him, but it means that he's nerves are shot so he can't feel any pain. So it's like he holds like a hot coal, and he's like, I feel nothing. And you're like, well, you feel nothing. But why have you got no marks on your hand? You're not Wolverine. You're not
00:43:27
Speaker
about healing abilities. But that's the thing, the bullet is apparently making him stronger, right? That's the thing that makes no sense. It's like, okay fine, I can maybe believe that, right, you know, he's losing, his nerves are, like, all dying out, but is it the fact that he's apparently becoming stronger? I'm like, what pseudo-science is this? Do you think they were writing this in the window and then they're like, okay guys, I think we've written ourselves into a corner.
00:43:50
Speaker
It's like, what, in the story they're like, no, literally, they have no idea. This is what happens when you write a story backwards from one pun. You know what, I'm wondering if they took this from like, DeviantArt or something like a fanfiction and they were like, okay, how do we write a franchise around this one character? Going back to Christmas Jones, which I hate the name, I genuinely do, you know why I hate it, but
00:44:13
Speaker
What do you think the problem is with her character Adam? Because honestly, as I said before, I don't think it's the fact that everybody said at the time, oh, Denise Richards is like this attractive woman who is coming into this role pretending she's smart, you know, like attractive people can obviously be smart.
00:44:29
Speaker
I think it's more the issue of that she didn't really have a significant role. Like with Natalia in Goldeneye, she was one of the analysts for the Goldeneye project, so she was able to stop Boris from taking over. With Wei Lin, she was able to kick the arse of like Carver and things when she needed to. Do these richard character, like what do you think went wrong there?
00:44:54
Speaker
I think if you look at if we look at Goldeneye and Tomorrow Never Dies and we take the there's in both those films there's two main female roles in each and for Goldeneye and Tomorrow Never Dies both of like the the female characters get significant story beats and arcs and both get like a fair amount of attention put on them like Paris Carver obviously has that previous relationship with with James Bond and then Waylon built up to be a very kind of badass character
00:45:19
Speaker
and gets a lot of cool action scenes to do. So they're different, but they both get a fair amount of attention thrown their way. And the same with Goldeneye, with Natalia, and Xenia. However, when it comes to World Is Not Enough, the writers were clearly fully focused on building up one of the main female roles, that being Electra King, to the detriment of Christmas Jones, who feels like just an afterthought.
00:45:40
Speaker
And I think that is the you were completely right when you said, I mean, no offense to Denise Richards. I don't think she's the greatest actor ever. But, you know, even if she was, she's working with such like limited and bland writing that I don't know quite what she could have done, to be honest with it. Like the character is just under baked.
00:45:56
Speaker
because the writers were far more focused and far more interested clearly in the character of Electra King, which, you know, I think that character has its positives and negatives as well, but, you know, the focus on her just completely, like, killed any kind of interesting role for Christmas Jones, I think.
00:46:11
Speaker
Because she comes in at the last half of the film, doesn't she? Or am I remembered in that room? No, I think it's after halfway through the film. You're right, there's a large chunk of the film where she's not in there at all, which is unique, I think, for her. Most of the Bond girls, they will appear, both of them will have appeared early on in the film. Perhaps one gets more development later on, but they will have at least shown their faces will be on screen. I don't think it's till after halfway that Christmas Jones appears.
00:46:37
Speaker
Because think about something like, and I know I'll always go on every time we do a Bond episode about how great Eva Green is in Casino Royale, but think about her character though, where Bond goes out with, or goes out, sorry that sounds so juvenile. Heehee, the kiss behind the bike shed. Makes a day with Eva Green. They sneak off in the Netflix and chill. Is Netflix even a thing? That would have been old Netflix, wouldn't it? Where you had to open the DVDs.
00:47:03
Speaker
Netflix order DVD and get it the next day and then you chill. That would be a boring film. Anyway, so I'm getting sidetracked. Yeah, with that Bond builds this really lovely chemistry and relationship with Vesper Lynne and spoilers again. She ends up betraying him but for not the reasons he believes initially. And it's like a heartbreaking thing at the end. And again, I don't want all the Bond films to be like doom and gloom and things because, come on,
00:47:30
Speaker
is in no time to die but it's just that it's quite sad because he genuinely you know he lets his guard down he really loves this woman and then he gets really hurt so he becomes this horrid recluse and everything but again going back to something I said earlier I think it's maybe a reflection of the times that they wanted a more upbeat bond compared to Timothy Dalton although he ends up falling for the lecture king and having to shoot her and there's this like really sad or made to be sad scene
00:48:00
Speaker
you know, after he escapes and Russian Robbie gets killed, I think this is the second and last appearance of his character. I'm actually wondering, is this the first time that the Bond films took continuity seriously, except for Roger Moore in For Your Eyes Only, where he dumps Bloeweld into the big chimney because he killed his wife, but
00:48:22
Speaker
Is this the first time they kind of kept like a continuity with characters within their own? I mean, you're forgetting, you're forgetting greatest character of all time, Sheriff, was it Sheriff Bill Pepper? No, G.W. Pepper. I think that's his name, but the one who appears in both. But I mean, the film series, you know, always had a kind of loose chronology where, you know, they all were technically the same character. And like, as you mentioned, the death of Bond's wife is referenced a couple of times, like it's referenced in License to Kill as well.
00:48:52
Speaker
And I think apparently it's referenced in this film as well, I think there's allusions to it in World Is Not Enough. So there was always kind of a loose chronology, and obviously like Bernard Lee who played the original M is in quite a few of the Bond films, and Desmond Llewellyn as Q was in the majority of them. But I think...
00:49:08
Speaker
But Sheriff Pepper aside, this was the first time that they had a more strict, as you say, kind of continuity, like within an actor's run of Bond films. It does seem like that though, doesn't it? Yeah, I mean, it's always been kind of loose. The continuity's always kind of been a bit like in a loosey goosey, but as you say, there was an attempt to build a kind of more stricter one with some parts of this Brosnan run. It kind of works for the most part.
00:49:31
Speaker
again, except for Christmas Jones or Electra King and everything, but going back to Electra King, they could have really built something quite sad and serious with that relationship between Bond and Electra, you know, because they do have
00:49:49
Speaker
I went to have a massive chemistry but they still have enough to make it passable but unfortunately as we know things don't work out, she ends up getting shot by Bond and then it's almost as if he just forgets her. Like did you ever notice that when he shoots her they have the sad music where he's holding her in his arms and then he's like oh gonna save the world and then that's it pays her no mind after that.
00:50:13
Speaker
You're completely right, it feels very strange because it almost feels like the climax of the film, like it feels like this is what the film has been building up to. And imagine if the film had ended with this, if like some of the last things had been Bond killing electric kick, that would have actually made for I think a really kind of startling end. Something akin to close to being how the end of Casino Royale is really like, you know, kind of gut wrenching with the death of Vesper Lynn and like Bond's transformation into the person that he's gonna become.
00:50:39
Speaker
But the fact is, because Electric King is killed off and then we still have to go deal with Renard, we have to save the world in Istanbul and prevent this nuclear submarine going off, it really just robs any chance of a true emotional payoff. And as well, I'm going to level some criticism here at Pierce Brosnan. This is where I don't think he quite, for me, anyway, I don't think he quite has the acting chops for this.
00:51:01
Speaker
As you said, it just feels kind of like, oh, that's a pity. And then it's like, right off we go. I think somebody like Timothy Dalton could have done this a lot better. I think Daniel Craig could have done it better as well, put real emotion into it. I don't know whether he's not up to it or whether it was the writing or the direction. Maybe his heart wasn't in this film. I don't know whatever the circumstances are, but it just
00:51:26
Speaker
it doesn't, I don't know, it just doesn't feel like he can quite carry the weight of that scene. And then with its awkward placement in the film as well, it just robs it really of any kind of emotional resonance. And speaking of like emotional resonance, there's like two particular characters we haven't addressed in this one. That of course being Q, played by Desmond Llewelyn, I hope I'm saying that right, and his introduction to his predecessor, jokingly called R, played by John Cleese.
00:51:54
Speaker
don't like John Cleese in that role but I will get more into that for Die Another Day. For this in particular though, this is Q's last appearance in the series because unfortunately the actor got into a car crash in real life and unfortunately passed away. I know they didn't
00:52:12
Speaker
mean it as his, like, final scene ever. But it's kind of a spooky that that was his final scene in Quite Ponyant when he turned round to Bond and he says, put two things to share with you. One, never let them see you bleed. And he said, what's the second thing? And he turned round and said something like, always have an escape plan. And he presses a button
00:52:34
Speaker
and he like descends into the ground. Now if you were just watching that without knowing he had died after this film you know you think oh it's a comical scene haha very funny. It's like you know that meme of Mr Incredible that's been going around recently? Have you seen that? Oh yeah. Where it's like people who know and people who don't know
00:52:52
Speaker
So it's like people who don't know, they've got like the smiley face and they're like, oh ha ha, very funny. And then it's the other side where it's like the serious face. It's like people who know. What did you think of that scene? I actually think it's very poignant. I think it's actually very well done. It's such a, I think it's actually a perfect little send off and a little tribute to the actor who has been, who has been with the franchise since the very beginning. And I think he was in every single film up to that point. So I think it's a really, it was a really nice kind of end.
00:53:20
Speaker
a really nice close for him and I think it's something the film did really well. R on the other hand, didn't like him. I'm gonna be honest, I don't think this is one of John Cleese's best roles, I'm gonna be honest. He definitely seems to be more of like a bumbling idea in comparison, which he just transfers into Die Another Day. Are we gonna do it Adam? Are we gonna pull the trigger and shoot down the gun barrel?
00:53:46
Speaker
We might, we might as well. I don't know, for me, personally, like, World is Not Enough was the one that I struggled the most to rewatch, I'll be honest. Like, I found it quite a plodding film and I found it quite boring. I don't think it's bad. There was nothing that really, like, hooked me in, in the way that stuff in Goldeneye and Tomorrow Never Dies had. And even I will say that the film after this, but let's move on, let's move on, because I think this is the one to really just let our hair down and go crazy with.
00:54:10
Speaker
As I said before, the further a James Bond actor does go into his like the Runner films, the more goofy it gets, and honestly the world is not enough, should have been that big red flag.
00:54:23
Speaker
lying above saying, we're gonna be good here, we're gonna have all the gadgets, the one liners, we're gonna have everything in this. But you know, we were young, we were naive, we just didn't listen. We thought another Bond film can't wait. And then we got Die Another Day, which was quite honestly written by someone who has a fetish for dad
Critique of Die Another Day
00:54:42
Speaker
jokes. That is the only way I can explain this film. It's about James Bond finally going to North Korea to stop a diamond smuggler. He ends up getting captured, tortured for a year.
00:54:53
Speaker
And you might think, wow, Satsu, you summarised the first third of that film. Excellent. What's the other two thirds about? No, no, no. That's the first 10 minutes. They wasted such a good premise on 10 minutes followed by Madonna's, you know, Adam. Her banging tune. Sigmund Freud. Sigmund Freud. Analyse this. Analyse this. It's a version of the human torch. She caresses James Bond as he's getting tortured.
00:55:21
Speaker
Fantastic Four, she is not. Fantastic Boar, maybe. Put that on the box.
00:55:28
Speaker
I would if I could add. You know it. Bowen tries to find this Korean diamond smuggler. He comes across Halle Berry, who is a American agent. The Americans are back in this film, only they're just as obnoxious as arguably Sergeant GW Pepper. Maybe not as bad, but they're still very aggressive and, oh no, we have to do a drive and everything.
00:55:55
Speaker
Okay this is going into borderline parody territory, and it's safe to say isn't it that this film was absolutely panned.
00:56:02
Speaker
when it came out, wasn't it? Fans didn't like it. The critic said there was too much product placement. Would you agree with that? Oh God, yes. This film was panned and you'd probably say rightly so by everybody. I think a lot of people still consider this to be the worst of the Bond films. And this was the one that I think is more people don't mind nearly killing, nearly being a franchise killer. It was considered to be that bad. So Adam, why was it a franchise killer? I mean... Share with the class, come on.
00:56:32
Speaker
Because if you look at this film, it really is terrible. In everything it does, I think it basically fails. The story, as you said, is ridiculous. And it's stupid ridiculous. It's not like kind of good. You're like, oh wow, this is kind of good, clever, ridiculous. No, it's really dumb.
00:56:50
Speaker
really really dumb. The characters are really uniformly bad, the acting isn't great but then again the writing is worse so I can't really fully hold that against the actors. There's actually a fine cast in here, Halle Berry is an Academy Award winner, we have Rosamund Pike you know who's a fine actor, I like Michael Madsen as well, Judi Dench in the film but they're just given such a
00:57:11
Speaker
crappy material to work with that it's just, you know, it's an utter disaster. The CGI in this film, are there many big budget films that have worse CGI? I'm trying to think. The Scooby Doo film, if you cannot. Okay, that's fair. Okay. You know what? It's on a par, I think, with the Scooby Doo. The action scenes are awful for the most part. I mean, I think the first, there's a chase, there's a hovercraft chase in the beginning, which I think is quite good.
00:57:36
Speaker
And there's a kind of ridiculous sword fighting scene. I think it's stupid, but because a lot of it is practical, I think it still has some excitement to it. But there's a terrible CGI ice surfing scene where James Bond is surfing away from a tsunami. There's a horrific...
00:57:51
Speaker
There's a terrible bit where the ice palace is getting melted and it looks awful. The editing in this film is shocking. There's like needless slow-mo, needless speed-up, bad cutting. It's really bad on like every level of this film. And I think that's why it was considered a franchise killer and people rate it so lowly. I've got to be honest though, this film is a lot of fun to watch.
00:58:14
Speaker
I had an absolute blast watching this film. It's funny to laugh with, but it's even funnier to laugh at. I almost recommend watching this film if you haven't because it's so funny. Like, how do you feel about it? Am I crazy for just enjoying this film? For the stupid ride that it is? Do you know what I love?
00:58:31
Speaker
See the fact that everyone I've asked about this film who actually enjoys it always says the same thing. They enjoy it because it's just that bad. I've never once met a fan of this film who said, oh, I love this film because of the deep plot and the action. It's like, no, no, no, they all love it because it's an absolute train wreck. And this came out in, is it right to say, the 50th anniversary of James Bond? Oh, it was the 40th anniversary. Oh, 40th, sorry. Yeah, this came out in the 40th anniversary of James Bond. And yeah,
00:59:01
Speaker
They certainly pay homage. I mean, they've got the Crocodile from Octobusley, they've got the Faber scene from, is it Doctor No? Where Halle Berry comes out of the sun. Oh sorry, Doctor, I'm thinking of the laser scene. Sorry, no you're right, Doctor No. Oh yeah, there is the laser scene as well. Yeah, we'll get to that, don't you? Literally a character says diamonds are forever in. Do they actually? Yeah, the main bad guy goes at one point and goes, well they know what they say, diamonds are forever.
00:59:31
Speaker
I really wanted them to keep saying, I really wanted some character to be like, well, you know what, they say octopussy. Oh, I'm just asking my doctor appointment now. Who's your doctor with? Oh, it's Doctor No. Do you want my false eye? Yes, I do. Thank you. It's a golden eye.
00:59:47
Speaker
I mean they did that and the world is not enough where to be fair technically they do say like oh it's the Bond like family motto or something like that at least that made both sense when someone's saying diamonds are forever and they are universe how does that make sense I don't know
01:00:03
Speaker
If this was a proper continuity, I really wanted Pearsbroughs to have a flashback to when he was Sean Connery, and he was driving a moon buggy around and doing whatever stupid crap that's in that place at the time. If it's a forever film, that'd have been awesome. Do you know the bit I was really confused at? You see the bit where Jinx, played by Halle Berry, goes into the room and she meets up with Boland as she turns round and goes, ah, you scared the living daylights out of me. What does she mean by that? You know, it's so meta. You have to be there to get it.
01:00:33
Speaker
You know, people listening to this must be thinking, are they joking? That's actually the film. I could actually believe that line was in there. Having just watched it like yesterday on the day of recording, I couldn't believe that line was in there.
01:00:48
Speaker
I mean, technically she said, ahhh, they're living teamlets. I mean, there was a bit of a pitch there. And then Bon went back, duh duh duh, just live and let die. You know, I felt it was a bit weird when they killed their own Bon, and they just had Simon Le Bon floating in the Ace Palace. I thought that was a bit dark, but
01:01:12
Speaker
Honest to God, I think we're right, there are only like better film, or better version. We really are. We need to do an episode where we make a better version of Die Another Day but still have to pay homage to all the previous Bond films. Step one, take out the goddamn ice palace. Why do we have to go to an ice palace? You know, you say that jokingly but that would fix probably about like at least 30% of what's wrong with this film, probably more.
01:01:38
Speaker
an ice palace. How would that sustain this? I don't want to get into the architecture of Iceland here whenever it was long because it just seems like there are ridiculous little moments of Bond. We all know from the Roger Murray era from, for example, the beginning of Thunderball where a man dresses up as his own widow tries to be a Bond.
01:02:00
Speaker
and then Bond escapes in a jetpack and fires like goo at them from his car. One of the best openings, by the way. I don't see how you can top that. But that's the thing though, you get stupid moments like that, but this is just littered with them. You know, there's no moment where they take themselves seriously, even though they try to take themselves seriously. And I don't know how true this is.
01:02:21
Speaker
think it was confirmed in an interview but I could be wrong but I heard that Pierce Brosnan actually wanted to do a more serious bond if they got like another fellow more like especially after he escapes from North Korea and he really wants to be this very tragic and serious figure
01:02:40
Speaker
There's a lot of parallels between that and Skyfall though, in the sense that both agents, like both Brostin and Craig, do not give a shit once they're back in the job. They're just like, oh okay, you abandoned us. Okay, right, bye. Have a way to shoot the bad guy, bye. You know, it's like, really? Have we not been able to come back to this? Or are you just going to go to Cuba too? Was it the Isla de Los Organos or something like that?
01:03:03
Speaker
The Island of Organs as I translate it probably terribly. Although I did appreciate the CGI Halle Berry that dives off like a goddamn cliff. I'm like hmm that doesn't seem responsible. I appreciate the creepy doctor who's like oh I enjoy working on you and then she just shoots him in the face. Can I step in and just say how much I hate the jokes in this film? I wish I could argue that I was like quickly I quickly had him think of a classic line from time to time. I'm like oh I can't even think of one.
01:03:33
Speaker
what you mean like the moment where they go up to the balcony and he goes wow this truly is a view to kill for. I did like the line in the fencing where he's like oh I know how to keep my tip up.
01:03:48
Speaker
Right okay I'm gonna go for the throat here so anyone who's like very sensitive to like this humour and the film please cover your ears but this is the worst pun bond I think I've ever seen in my life. Re-watching it just made it all the worse. I don't even know where to begin. Bond always has a quip
01:04:07
Speaker
Okay, and as I said in License to Kill, when he finds the guy who gets impaled by the forklift and they would say something like, oh he didn't get the point or something, he got the point, that was it, oh he got the point and I always felt as if that line was a bit out of place, it's like they just put it in there because you know, it's James Bond, he has to have like a
01:04:29
Speaker
But imagine that one condensed moment stretched into an entire film. And that's exactly what this film is. It's just all these terrible, terrible puns. And usually I love that kind of humour. I love the dad jokes and things. But as I said before, whoever wrote this had some kind of fetish for them.
01:04:46
Speaker
because you know it's things like when he grabs the bell when he gets saved he's like, oh saved by the bell! There's nobody around except the audience. He literally might as well just look into the camera, wink, and then chug down a Pepsi before he gets arrested by the North Koreans. Who was that line for? There's also the one, as you said, where he has like a flirting match with Madonna. I genuinely think that was written into Madonna's contract. Like she refused to do the theme song, unless they had like a flirting scene which is like
01:05:13
Speaker
Ok bros, you have to flirt with Madonna. He's like, really? Can I just say I love your logic that the producers heard the Madonna track and they're like, my god, we just have to have this in our film, couldn't agree to all her demands. This is gold this track. This is gonna get us in with the hip kids. Do you know what the hip kids love? References to Sigmund Freud. Analyse this, analyse this. What was the other way? Oh yeah, analyse this. Truly the voice of our generation. She doesn't even face!
01:05:42
Speaker
She's meant to be a fencing instructor, and she just stands on the sidelines after flirting with Bond in an uncomfortable five minutes. I know it's only two minutes, but it feels like five minutes, OK? Feels a lot longer. Is it just me, or does she have a different outfit compared to the other people? Or am I misremembering that? It does look like she raided Zinnia on a top floor travel playlist. She has a little leather suit. Am I remembering that correctly? Has my brain just been warped by this one? No, no, no. She's got a liver corset on.
01:06:10
Speaker
Yeah, and she's like, oh, look at me, I'm fencing. And it's like, that's not standard gear. Hey, you're not a fencer. Do you think like the local fencing clubs have that issue quite often? I mean, I imagine they must be swamped with it. Yeah, like they have to like chase Madonna out with a broom.
01:06:26
Speaker
get out of here, you own. I imagine that every two days or so, some people get into a heated fencing match and just pull out the broadswords and start slashing each other up and down. I mean, to be fair, that is a great fight scene. It's great. And can I say how much I love that literally, I think in virtually every other Bond film, Bond will meet the villain and they'll verbally spar. It'll be like psychological war games for a while. And then it's not until the very end that they engage in fisticuffs or whatever.
01:06:54
Speaker
I swear about two minutes into Bond's first meeting with Gustav Graves, they're literally trying to hack each other's limbs off with katanas and broadswords and claymores and everything. Can I just say though, this is probably my favourite k-drama movie of all time. I mean, I can see why. Squid, Squid Whatner? I mean, you've got family drama, you've got the slow motion.
01:07:19
Speaker
honestly, yeah. Move aside, K-dramas. Crash landing on you, move aside. For all the small percentage of people who actually watch K-dramas out there going, I got that reference, I appreciate you. But it does seem more like a K-drama, doesn't it? And I know this kind of predates before, I mean don't get me wrong, I don't know the landscape of K-dramas in the West in 2002, but it almost seems as if it borrows a lot of elements from that. I mean Bond literally stops his heart at one point
01:07:47
Speaker
Oh yeah he stops his heart at one point to get out of like prison right and to flirt with a nurse. And then the Chinese government decides to give him a passport to go away to Cuba. This film is all over the place as well. Thanks China, you're alright. Thanks China, very cool.
01:08:05
Speaker
like, what is going on in this film? And yeah, they end up going to Cuba. Do you know what it feels like though? It doesn't feel like they're going there for the sake of the plot. They're just going there because, oh, we've got these grand locations. Let's, you know, just use these grand locations. When he goes to Iceland and he meets Mr. Cowell and literally says, it's a name to die for. Why, Adam? This is a rhetorical question, Adam. I'm asking you more.
01:08:31
Speaker
Why? Do you know, I wish I could answer. I mean, the Bond films have always had, you would say that they've not, that they don't usually have natural dialogue and that I'm pretty sure people don't usually like talk this way, but particularly die another day. Like I don't think, I mean, if there is anybody who talks exclusively in puns or in my dad jokes, please never come near me. Cause I don't. That sounds like a nightmare. Just to be like, Oh, you know, what are you doing today? And it's like, Oh, I would insert pun here for there somewhere. Oh my God.
01:09:00
Speaker
As I said though, I love dad jokes, I love puns, I love that kind of humour but it feels like that kind of obnoxious friend slash stranger who won't leave you alone at a party. You know that way where it's just like, oh, what you doing today? Well, let me tell you about my life and you're like, please leave me, please.
01:09:20
Speaker
just want to come here and enjoy the party. It's like, haha, enjoy the party. Oh, it's party time. Haha. Oh, I'm going to die another day. Are you okay, sir? No.
01:09:32
Speaker
There's a lot of things I enjoy. I really enjoy having pasta with chili pesto. I don't want to eat pasta with chili pesto for two hours and 12 minutes. You may like dad jokes, but you don't want to just exclusively do that for two hours and 12 minutes, I'm pretty sure. Is that how long this film is? That is how long the film is. No way. It's a long one. Well, I think that's probably on the longer side. True. Swap that in the box as well. Die another day. Jesus Christ, that's how you work.
01:09:58
Speaker
between the race switching and, as you said, the awful editing. Again, we've got another love betrayal, which some actually didn't notice until just there, but we already had a love interest who betrays Bond in the world, is that enough? Why did they do it two in a row? When something's that good, you need to instantly do it again. I mean, technically they did it three times in a row with Casino Royale, but
01:10:22
Speaker
Oh, that's true. They finally perfected it. Right, if there are time lucky, here we go. What is wrong with this franchise? Also, can we just discuss how Rosamund and again, spoilers here, but Rosamund Pike's character betrays the British government because she wanted to win the fencing tour.
01:10:37
Speaker
So, I suppose it was the Olympics, but I did just love that. He's like, right, I'll let you win the gold medal by default. He's like, yes, I will betray my country now and become loyal servant of North Korea. It's like, yes, stand aside 006 from Goldeneye, you know, because his family were betrayed and executed by the Soviet Union. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. That is a poor excuse. Tomorrow never dies. It only once. The rights to broadcast in China and the
01:11:01
Speaker
No, no, that's terrible motivation. And then, yeah, Fenton Tournament thumbs up. And then we get Jinx, who, of course, is... I don't like her, I'm gonna be honest. And no offense to Halle Berry, but I just find your character just there. Again, I think it's more of a writing issue, probably. I agree. Again, I don't think it's Halle Berry's fault. I think you're completely right. I think it's just a poorly written character who's given virtually nothing to do other than stab Rosamund Pike with the art of war. Oh, yeah. But I put a diamond in her belly button.
01:11:31
Speaker
I actually wrote a note from the intro that just says blood diamonds.
01:11:39
Speaker
Can I just say I was actually physically disgusted by that scene? I don't mean the act of putting a diamond in your belly button, I don't care about that. I mean the fact that they make a big thing about these being conflict diamonds, you know, taken away and people dying over them. And Halle Berry is rolling around in them, being like, oh, do we have to give them back? I'm like, you're sick! You know what? You're completely right. It's the most disgustingly materialistic thing.
01:12:09
Speaker
Do you know what it would be like? See if like in Casino Royale, if he took like all the chips and then he slept with Vesper on top of them and that's how the film ended. It's like come on James, come back to bed and cash in. It just cuts the clips of like the wars in Africa with child soldiers and things and it's like because that's the thing you want to remember James Bond for. Sleeping in a bed of fucking blood diamonds.
01:12:35
Speaker
Thank you, MGM. Thank you. Very cool. That honestly turned my stomach. I was kinda like, really? More so than Christmas Jones. I'm gonna be honest. More so than that. Honestly, what were your thoughts? See rewatching this film and that slaps you in the face.
01:12:50
Speaker
You know, it was funny, it was funny watching this film and seeing how much I've changed in 20 years, because I do remember watching it as a 10 year old and being like, oh, this is awesome, you know, and everything, obviously not getting the conflict time and the implication, you know, and everything. And then watching it now and being like, oh, this is slightly uncomfortable.
01:13:12
Speaker
I'm not sure I like this. So yeah, that I think is maybe the only thing in, well, I suppose we could argue as well the fact that the film revolves around a Korean man changing himself to become white. I don't know, that's, you know, I think we're in slightly dodgy territory there as well.
01:13:27
Speaker
I think those are maybe the only two truly offensive bits in the film. I think the rest of it's offensive, but mostly because it's just so bad. It's kind of funny. Out of curiosity, when did Mission Impossible 2 come out? Oh, I think it was the late 90s, so I think that came out just before this. Because I know there's like a subplot in that where technically it's kind of stupid, it's more masks, but there was that whole, oh, people aren't who they say they are. And obviously I don't want, oh yeah, face off.
01:13:57
Speaker
Of course. With Nicolas Cage and John Travolta, that would cause it. The one that did it well. Oh yeah, they did it better than a man who, as you said, decided to turn from the spawn of a devilish North Korean general to a British millionaire? Playboy? Playboy, yeah. Clearly the same thing. Clearly two sides of the same conflict diamond here. Can I also say, I love how this film makes the father, the North Korean general who's the father of the main villain, out to be heroic.
01:14:27
Speaker
In what ways? See, he's the one who tries to stop. He's always like, oh, I disapprove of all this stuff. And then he tries to stop his son from destroying the minefields so that North Korea can invade South Korea and everything and stop him from using Icarus. Again, it's like that thing I could talk about at the beginning where it's like they almost don't want to make a moral judgment on countries and regimes. It's like, you know what? These North Koreans, they're all right. It's just it's the rogue element.
01:14:52
Speaker
I feel like if there's one country you could be like, let's just make a blanket statement. People would probably be like, okay, North Koreans are all bad. That kind of jives with our popular perception of that regime. But I do find it funny that there's this heroic North Korean character who's, and maybe we should celebrate that. Maybe that's something to be celebrated in its own way, in its own bizarre way.
01:15:12
Speaker
Speaking of glaring plot holes, and believe me there's in many a plot hole in this one, can I just talk about Project Icarus for a moment? Please do. Other than the fact it's utterly stupid, so Project Icarus, unlike Golden Eye which is just like a satellite system that'll blast like things to hell and back, which made sense, whereas this is like a giant, it's like a giant tinfoil disk in the sky. With diamonds! With diamonds! It's a diamond!
01:15:37
Speaker
I'm sure that's made of diamonds, right? Is that not why he's getting all these diamonds? Oh for God's sake. Have I got that completely wrong? You know, I wouldn't be surprised. Can you imagine if it's like, oh yeah, Project Icarus, but we're going to call it a gold finger. But you know what they say, diamonds are forever. Yes. And the man with the golden gun. Yes. And the spy who loved me.
01:15:58
Speaker
could have called it Moonraker. They could have called the satellite Moonraker. That would have been perfect. Yeah. That is a missed opportunity. But anyway, so going back to Project Icarus, basically he turned round and he says how this super weapon, and I get that this is an excuse for him saying like, oh, it's going to end. Whoa, Tungur. When
01:16:17
Speaker
you know, it's meant to be a super weapon. This particular plot point got me so curious and confused that I decided to look up the countries on the internet, but I looked up the countries with the most world hunger, and then I also looked up what the weather was like there. Long story short, I don't think adding more sun to said countries would actually help.
01:16:40
Speaker
If anything, I think I would exacerbate the issue. What fool at the UN turned round and said, oh yeah, do you know what these countries which are starving from droughts and famine need? More sun, because that's what we need. This is obviously something I never noticed when I was younger, but am I going crazy? That is like the most salient point that's been made. I mean, you've made very many well-reasoned and well-argued points tonight. That is the most infallible bulletproof point.
01:17:10
Speaker
A second son. Oh my god. This is how these bureaucracies work. Everything just gets caught in committees and everything and they're like, oh yeah, just approve it. A second son. I'll solve everything. What are they growing? If there's no water, what are they growing under the sun? Here we go, here we go. This is how he's gonna solve, this is how he's gonna solve world hunger. Okay, I'm ready. People won't be concerned about being hungry if there's no water for them to drink. I mean, they wouldn't even be there. Like evaporates every time. If they're getting burned to life by the power of two sons, they won't be concerned about world hunger.
01:17:40
Speaker
Do you think there's another setting on it though? Is there like a setting that says Enboro Tongue and then on the other side it just says Death Ray?
01:17:54
Speaker
there's end world hunger, there's blow up minefields. Did you say there's death? Destroy the planet I presume. Of all the things, because obviously GoldenEye is a super weapon and they said they decommissioned it and everything. Oh spoilers they hadn't and this rogue element comes in and tries to scoop it up. In terms of the story, that's believable. Tomorrow Never Dies, the manipulation of information and playing both sides against one another. That's believable. The world is not enough.
01:18:22
Speaker
Yeah, it's just stereotypical, oh they stole a submarine and they're gonna blow up. I can't remember what they were gonna blow up. Istanbul. Istanbul, really? Was that it? I mean no offence to Istanbul, but like, probably, why were they blowing up Istanbul? They wanted everybody to be a part of his nuclear family. Oh yeah, because of the pipeline, yeah. I nearly forgot that. That's how well I remember that film, I was like.
01:18:43
Speaker
Wait, why does he want to- ahhh. Yeah, even then, that's semi-believable. But to change your race, harness the power of the sun, and then become a British billionaire, and take fencing lessons from my
Pierce Brosnan's Bond Legacy and Actor Comparisons
01:18:57
Speaker
daughter? I'm sorry, this is the most fan-fictiony out of the four of them. And I know I use that as an insult quite a lot, but this is by far the most fan-fictiony one out of all of them. Or am I just going crazy and I'm wrong to say that?
01:19:10
Speaker
you're completely right in everything that you've said but still please go watch this film. It's amazing for every like every single misstep that we've catalogued and there's so many more that we've not even touched. There'll be stuff that I've forgotten that like the film puts every foot wrong and it's amazing for it. And on that note and on Her Majesty's Secret Service of course, how would you rate the Brosnan run overall? Just as we finish up, how would you rate it overall?
01:19:37
Speaker
I think it has one really standout film and I think Golden Knight is an exceptional Bond. It's a great film all round. I think it's an exceptional Bond film. I think it's one of the best. Tomorrow Never Dies I think is good. It's not one of my favorites. I think it's good. I don't really like The World Is Not Enough. I find it quite boring. And Die Never Day is terrible but amazing. It's in its own separate category by itself.
01:20:02
Speaker
But looking at it overall, I'm not really a fan of Pierce Brosnan's run. I think, again, this is my personal opinion here. For me, it's a shame for Pierce Brosnan that he falls between my two favourite Bond actors, Timothy Dalton and Daniel Craig. So I don't know. When I look at his run of films, his body of work doesn't resonate with me.
01:20:23
Speaker
And I think as well for me, my favorite of the Bond actors are the ones who like did kind of really memorable things with the role. So for instance, like Timothy Dalton brought this like just this absolute world weary, burnt out, spent man who hates what he does, but that's all he knows how to do. While Daniel Craig kind of brought this like, this kind of blend of like toughness, but also like emotional frailty, which I thought which I really, really like.
01:20:47
Speaker
And even kind of date looking back at, you know, somebody like Sean Connery, I thought he brought this kind of raw masculinity for both good and for bad to the role, which I think made him stand out. For me, Pierce Brosnan just doesn't do anything that really stands out to me. He looks and acts suave, you know, he's a handsome gentleman, he can be funny, you know, he can do some emotions, but there's nothing there when I look at it that I'm like, that's the one standout thing, you know, that's something I'm like, that's what Pierce Brosnan does that none of the other actors do.
01:21:14
Speaker
and that's just for me, I just write him lowly because of that. I don't think he's bad in the role, he's just really kind of unmemorable for me, I just don't think he did anything special with it like some of the other actors did, so I like some of the films and I think most of them are worth watching for different reasons, but I can't really rate it as one of my favourite runs I have to admit. I personally think that in terms of the image of Bond, Pierce Brosnan's probably up there next to Sean Connery and the likes,
01:21:43
Speaker
I don't know what it is, I think it's maybe it is because of his looks that they chose him, you know, he's just so iconic with the way he carries himself, with the way he delivers one-liners and puns, with the way he does his action and things. I think he does a great job in the role, at least at the beginning, but I feel as if maybe, I don't know, because as we said,
01:22:03
Speaker
Bond is quite a reactionary series and in this particular period we've got the end of the Cold War and we've got the beginning of this kind of new age of espionage and different geopolitics. So you think
01:22:20
Speaker
Well, who's going to be the next enemy? So we had, like, the obvious, the fallout of the Soviet Union in GoldenEye. We had a news mogul who, let's face it, that's always going to be timeless, like, in the story. The world is not enough. We had a just your standard terrorist slash crazy millionaire. And then you die in the other days just when they lost the plot. And again, they were trying to get, like, the anniversary stuff in and everything. As I said, ah, living daylights and so forth.
01:22:49
Speaker
yeah it just seemed like a weird choice in the way that you know they did everything. I can't remember if this is true but I think it might be something to do with the director of Die Another Day as well but there's a lot of factors that lead to this film not being received as well. There's like the impossible gadgets. There's actually someone on YouTube and I can't
01:23:10
Speaker
I remember the name for the life of me but they did like a James Bond retrospective and I remember them saying like how the Aston Martin vanish actually works or should work rather practically and it's like it takes small cameras and it replicates its surroundings to make it seem invisible and this review was like well if Bond was hiding behind it then his face would be all smeared because it's like pressed up against the camera and he actually shows you like a photoshopped image of it and I've still got it saved on my computer to this day it is the
01:23:40
Speaker
funniest thing I've ever seen. Piers Brosnan's face like warped and stretched across the garden like oh god. You know you've got the laser scene in that as well. There's just so much in that film that you could criticise but you know it's like a weird spectrum of films. You know you've got your serious ones, you've got your absolutely bat you know what insane ones. It just seems like it's all over the place and I don't know if
01:24:07
Speaker
Here's a question just as we're wrapping up, but do you feel as if there's less of a consistent theme with Brosnan's run, as opposed to like Daniel Craig, Timothy Dalton, Connery and Moore? Yeah, I definitely think there's less of a consistent theme than something like Dalton or Craig. Well obviously the Craig kind of arc
01:24:25
Speaker
feels quite narratively consistent for the most part. You know, they really did try to build consistency there and his character's growth as well. And sort of the same with Dalton as well, like License to Kill isn't exactly like a direct follow up to Living Daylights, but that character does feel very consistent. I feel it's more in line, Brosnan's more in line with kind of the way the Connery and the Moore films developed in that if you look at like Connery's character in Diamonds are Forever compared to Doctor No, they seem like completely, you could almost believe it's completely different actors.
01:24:54
Speaker
doing it. There doesn't seem to be a logical through line there. It's been a while since I've seen the more films, but it does feel as well like the more films were more all over the place and didn't really feel all that connected. I guess the way Brosnan kind of fits in with those, more than the more consistent characters of Dalton and Craig. It's honestly just a shame, because as I say,
01:25:16
Speaker
Brosnan wanted to go out with more of a like serious film, you know I think he probably would have loved it if his was more in line with Craig's run or Dalton's run but he's kind of in this awkward middle phase where the world wasn't quite ready for serious bond but he maybe went to the other side of the spectrum where it was just too goofy and I think that's what's kind of alienated people at the end of the day.
Recommendations and Closing Remarks
01:25:40
Speaker
I would still recommend though that people check out this run just to mirror what you were saying
01:25:45
Speaker
yeah Goldeneye and Tomorrow Never Dies I would say are definitely the ones to check out if you want like more of the good films but if you want to see the train wrecks that we were talking about the world is not enough and die another day go check them out because you might not enjoy them but you'll have a lot of fun with them and at the end of the day if you're not having fun you're
01:26:08
Speaker
crying about it on the internet, so yes. Go watch it. On that note, I think that's probably a good place to stop, do you? Go watch Die Another Day, last, last, last, like, invocation. Just go watch it. You might regret it, but you won't. It's so stupid, but it's so much fun. As we finish this episode, I'll leave you with the words of my partner when I finish this film with her. She said, and I quote, seriously.
01:26:33
Speaker
Ringing endorsement. You didn't show your partner this, did you Adam? We watched the first three, but she didn't quite fancy dying the other day, but I think we're gonna watch it. I think I'm gonna force her to watch it. When are you getting the blue ray? As soon as I'm finished with this episode, I'm going straight to my local online retailer to order it. And on that note, I won't keep you back any further Adam. Come on, I'm itching.
01:26:54
Speaker
So, as always Adam, thank you so much for joining me in another Bond episode. My pleasure. I'm always happy to talk about the highs and the lows of this series. If you lovely listeners at home would like to hear more of our James Bond content or maybe just the other episodes, you can catch us on Anchor, Spotify, iTunes and of course YouTube under the name Chat Tsunami. Just look for the red panda and we will see you there. But until then, thank you all once again for listening. Stay safe.
01:27:22
Speaker
Stay awesome, stay hydrated and most importantly, analyse this.