Transcript
Speaker: Hello and welcome to OTB, a Norwich City podcast, the Norwich City show that isn't worried yet, just a bit disappointed. I'm your host, Ryan Livermore, and this week on OTB, it's more about a sleep for the Lions rather than sleeping Lions, Norwich City take the pacifist approach in South London and put in the worst display of Philippe Clement's reign. And we ask, how, what?
Speaker: Plus, it's the first doubleheader of the season with a trip to Cardiff in the Carabao, Burnley's visit too. There's Sophie Leaney's word of the week and we reveal the first two players in our Canary Countdown.
Speaker: It's our third week in a row with the same herd of scapegoats. Do you know what? I've never liked our first guest's thoroughly charming and hilarious optimism and well-balanced opinions anyway. It's Zoe Morgan.
Speaker: Hello, Ryan. Lovely intro there. I'm going to carry on being optimistic. Good. So you should. Don't do anything differently and just expect everyone else to kind of change their opinions of you, as seems to be the case with the football club at the moment. and Next, we have to ask, does he really add anything to the podcast at all or is it just a legacy thing? It's Dan Brigham.
Speaker: i think we know the answer to that. Hey, no, don't don't do yourself down, mate. You are very much the Kenny of this this pod, I would imagine. I've got you there to do me down. It's fine.
Speaker: I wouldn't have it any other way. And finally, it's our mathematical mountain, arithmetic, alpine and figurative fainter. It's Steve Sanders. Those are goats.
Speaker: Oh, great. fainter goat. Yeah, OK. Well, I'm glad you told me. i'm sure I'm sure everyone listening picked up on that. Are they those ones that just like keel over? Yeah, the ones where you open an umbrella in front of them and they go, shit, and just collapse. You don't want to be like half mountain goat, half fainter goat, do you? Because you'd be in a world of trouble.
Speaker: They must faint very dramatically to be named after that. but what i would like I would look them up. they are They are very excellent. Have you really not seen them? They are fantastic. There's the whole compilation on YouTube of people running up to them and basically going, whoa, with an umbrella. And they just they just tense up a bit like Harry Darling on Saturday and then fall over.
Speaker: it's a So we're talking about fainting as in falling over, not like a tricky winger. now Get him up there for us. i Exactly. I mean, couldn't do much worse at the moment. Let's be honest.
Speaker: Just a quick reminder that even if Norwich City do appear to be lacking on the pitch, you can be assured that us at OTB and Norwich City podcast will turn up every week. We are now on Patreon and Substack for all of your extra content steering you through the 26-27 season. For just £2 a month, you can gain access to exclusive episodes and ad-free content on Patreon, and our free Substack will be regularly updated throughout the season if the written word is as much of your thing as the spoken one is.
Speaker: Alrighty, let's kick off with Zoe Morgan's headlines.
Speaker: A man who spent lockdown learning all the countries of the world thrilled to know he's still got it. Tunisia, Turkey, UAE, Ukraine, Uruguay, USA, Uzbekistan and Venezuela.
Speaker: Don't a lot places start with A? Albania, Algeria, Argentina, Armenia, Australia, Austria. Where
Speaker: should I go on holiday next year? costaica croatia cyprus Steve, we spoke last week for the most part about how good Norwich looked and how excited we were to see how high their ceiling could be. After the Saturday, have we found their floor?
Speaker: ah Sorry, I'm still on a high from that audio all working as it as it was meant to. how it all know but Added extra with hearing you click the mouse to make each one happen as well. That'll come out in post, and although as we've as we've already established, it never does. I'll say that. It'll come out in post. They won't even hear it. i'll just yeah And just to throw in there, can ah throughout the course of the podcast, can anyone name the three countries that begin with A and don't end with A?
Speaker: Well, one of them is Azerbaijan. One of them was mentioned. enjoy but I'll leave you ah leave you to mull that over. Yeah, them while we were terrible. sir what was What was the question? LAUGHTER Okay, as opposed to elaborate on that, yeah, like last week we came on and sort of said, well, everything's okay. Like, you know, we still played quite well and these things happen undone by ah by a kind of slightly fortunate goal.
Speaker: ah Let's take the opposite approach this week. That was absolutely gash. um As you already said, the worst performance of the Clermont, or at least like certainly the worst since Birmingham away. And that's obviously first game. So, So it doesn't really count.
Speaker: Really struggled in possession. I think um Big Phil mentioned it in his pre-match for the um ahead of the Cardiff game. It was the the lack of bravery in possession and not being able to play out from the back. Millwall were really excellent, has to be said. And i think that's that's obviously what we can take from it, is that we played a really, really good side who i think we were all talking about maybe top six challenges I think we can pretty much guarantee they they will be on that basis. um
Speaker: But even so, we're talking about a team. We've all put Norwich and City in our top five this season. So we shouldn't be going to any team in the championship really and being turned over like that.
Speaker: No excuses in terms of injuries. Magoma wasn't 100% fit and obviously was still missing Makama. Fisher and Mattson still not quite there. um So close to full strength. And that was the really worrying thing for me. We just got completely outplayed and outfought. We'll probably talk about some of Big Phil's decision making.
Speaker: But yeah, it it was it was a bit of a disaster class and 3-0, probably even slightly flattering, I think. Dan, let's talk about ah big Phil selections. A lot was made of the the changes made and then the lack of changes at half-time. Can you initially understand why the starting XI was how it ah was laid out?
Speaker: Yeah, to an extent. There's always logic behind anything that most managers do. um Starting field worked a few months ago at the Den, and but you know that was in sort of a three-man midfield, effectively. um I'm not sure it works in a two-man midfield. I think we'd i think I said at my one big concern about this Norwich side...
Speaker: well, i wouldn't say big concern, but bit of a concern about this Norwich side is the drop-off in quality when you break up that Mattson-Kenny pivot in central midfield. um I think Field is someone you kind of want bringing off the bench when you're 2-0 up with 20 minutes to go or you know starting against some of the sort of weaker sides in the division. But I just don't i think he needs to take one too many touches against really good midfields. um I'm not sure I'd be slotting him in against ah good midfields again after this after that performance.
Speaker: I think we saw... so some of Soleimani's kind of faults as well in terms of, although he might be quite clever at pressing, when he drops into midfield, he's probably not as competitive as you would like. So we just, yeah, we got overran in that. But A, overran, B, not good enough on the ball. um I did feel like when Phil was, Big Phil was talking about sort of going back to basics and being braver on the ball, i said that well one When you're not even giving, say, Jacob Wright, who is a central midfielder, who is brave on the ball, an opportunity to start if you want to sort of break up that McLean-Matson
Speaker: um axes, then surely Wright's the guy you want to do that. We're kind of like, if you want to play our game, I don't mind Clement being pragmatic in sort of tweaking how he approaches games against opposition. I don't think we've got a good enough squad to not do that against some of the better sides in the division and Millwall certainly are one of the better sides. I thought they were looked much more rounded actually than last season. and they got They played some really good stuff. um So I don't mind Clement being sort of pragmatic, but I just kind of want us to also play the way that he wants us to play, which is being brave on the ball. And I'm not sure...
Speaker: ah field brings that for you and it certainly don't want to pick on one player because they were all shit like really shit and big sort of toilet blocking bad shit they were just no excuses apart from maybe Vlad who pulled off you know one really good save and didn't have an opportunity to save any of the three chances ah I don't think all the outfield players were well off it individually sort of and um collectively as well Zoe, just ah can anything positive be taken from Saturday?
Speaker: oh well, think it can only go one way, hopefully. So ah presumably our next game will be better. um Afghanistan, by the way, just thought of another one. um i it was so It was so surprisingly bad that...
Speaker: A, I think that is a good thing, like how far we've come ah in the last year, ah that that performance was completely out of the blue in terms of of quality.
Speaker: um Attitude as well. um you just You really haven't been able to say at many points during Big Phil's reign that their attitude hasn't been right, but it it just was meek um and not as positive. um not as adventurous as it has been um i think that this is probably a good time for this to happen you know that not you know the season is a long way from unfolding finding out you've got a few issues here and there early on probably isn't the worst thing in the world um and like uh big phil said afterwards it's a bit of a wake-up call for maybe some of them that
Speaker: might have believed some of the hype um around them, which for which we are partly responsible. um But a little bit of a a check on, um what's the word, complacency, and any potential complacency, I think is a good thing right now. They have to remember the levels that they had to play at in order to get all of those good results last time. It's not going to just get gifted to them on a plate. Yeah.
Speaker: So yeah, um it's like, yes, we didn't win against West Brom, and but the performance wasn't, you know, it wasn't anything to be too worried about. So this is really in isolation at the moment. So I'm going to choose to see it in isolation and see it as a one-off. Pretend it never happened, move on, um um and we go again Tuesdays.
Speaker: Steve, it's interesting. Zoe mentioned there about the the attitude of the side. And the next question I have is how much of a difference is there in the jeopardy of starting a season from scratch as promotion contenders and then comparing that to essentially being in a pit where you're having to dig in and then start from a few places back midway through a season? And what sort of effect does that have on the way a side approaches each game it goes into? Because it It was stark contrast on Saturday to ah the the displays we put in in in November, where, yes, the quality of the the side as a whole may have been lesser, but the application certainly compared to those times was was chalk and cheese, really.
Speaker: yeah I sort of hesitate to to start talking about do we have as much do we have the same um attitude and the same kind of aims and what to play for as as as what we did last season? Because I do think there is a lot to play for this season. you know we We know what the goals are and we know what we need to do to get there. and This team you know had to battle to avoid relegation when Phil Clement first came in and then towards the end we're pushing towards the playoffs. But we know that...
Speaker: We know the way the Championship works and we know that we need to compete in every single game. This is the first time we haven't done that in a long time. It's quite an odd feeling. i mean it's not quite and on the down level of can we ever trust them again after we lost 6-2 at Plymouth, but it is the first time where I've thought, hang on a minute, maybe we're not always going to turn up and be good. And that's a bit of a sobering thought and slightly slightly unnerving because...
Speaker: Will we see that performance again? And maybe if we're here in you know a few weeks' time and we've seen four or five of those performances, that might be when it's time to worry. i think a lot of it, you know, there were some bad individual performances. i think it's fair to say Field wasn't a good choice. But honestly, I think a bigger difference was Kenny just not playing well at all. I think he probably wasn't helped by not having Mattson alongside him. But it's the worst I've seen him play in a while. Just couldn't, couldn't we couldn't break the press. and And the passing when we went long was was really bad.
Speaker: and It wasn't just Kenny. Cordoba struggled. I thought Vlad struggled with his distribution as well. And it just really set us back. I thought actually when we did push forward, there were some signs there that, you know, on the break, we we created a few chances. we probably should have scored in the game, but we still were so bad at the back that we didn't deserve it.
Speaker: yeah We didn't deserve anything more than than what we got. um So, yeah, it's it's odd that it keeps happening at the Den. um You know, we talked... I think last week Dan alluded to how bad we are there. And although we have had some good results, it's just weird that we keep having complete disasters there.
Speaker: Russell Martin and Marcel Franken never played again. we were so bad in 2017. And then ah the Hoff never returned after ah utterly... I mean, talk about attitude and lack of it. That was much, much, much worse in 2025 than it was on Saturday. so Yeah, I think it's a bit early. you know I've seen people writing off our very good players already um and I'm not prepared to do that. Sorry.
Speaker: Is it a ah blessing in disguise, Dan, like this kind of ah output? Because the the phrase reality check has been thrown around a lot in the last few days. And it does feel like there's a small, ah loud minority who did get ahead of themselves, ah really, in in the build-up to the campaign. Are we talking about ourselves again?
Speaker: and Yeah, yeah. and you get me Well, I said in the intro, Zoe, I never liked your opinions anyway. So, yeah. Is there ah is there a case for um a reality check then? Is it a blessing in disguise, Dan?
Speaker: Yeah, I think coming this early in the season, I think... ah I don't know whether this is just... um sort of your classic football cynicism, but that pre-season felt so good. The vibes were coming out of it were really good. And sometimes a big group of sports people can sort of buy into that really easily. And they forget that, you know, the hard work during those 90 minutes that comes into allowing you to be really good. That's not say, I don't think we actually like gave up or anything on Saturday. I think, I think, um,
Speaker: Clermont said in today's press conference ahead of the Cardiff game that we actually won more duels than Millwall did and our running stats were fine. It was, it was I mean, who what do you put it down to? I think is it's the structure.
Speaker: um And maybe it is a nice little early warning system not to be sort of cocky, not to be so confident that just to be a bit more precise about your passing. um I think the positive is, well, the positive, main positive is we've been very, very good under Philippe Clermont and one performance doesn't change that. and But also...
Speaker: he he's and this isn't a criticism, his system, the way we play in the structure, is really repeatable. It's quite simple the way we attack and the way we defend. And it's good because it is simple and repeatable and players know what they're doing in it. um so I'm less concerned about...
Speaker: ah one bad performance playing that system, especially, you know, when we played well against West Brom, created a lot of chances against West Brom um with Fisher and Brooks and Kenny missing absolute sitters. Brooks missed a really good chance on Saturday as well against Millwall. I'm less concerned about, you know, as maybe I would be if we were playing under...
Speaker: and say Torrup Still whose system was a bit more complicated um or Wagner who seemed to be system less think we've just those players know that system really really well and I don't think it's a case of Alex Nils suddenly working it out because it is a pretty simple system to work out it's just that Mill pressed really really well and we A went brave enough on the ball probably because our first few passes went wrong um So, yeah, I do think it should be a blip. We've got the players for it to not for it to be a blip and we've got the manager to make sure it it's a blip as well. And I think it happening now is probably pretty useful just as a reminder, not just for the players, but for the manager to remember that you've got to put a lot of hard work in in order to show your quality.
Speaker: I think I've always been of the opinion that if you're going to put yourself in a promotion battle, it's harder to work than ah a dogfight at the bottom for a multitude of reasons. And I think the sooner they realize that, the better.
Speaker: um Zoe, just the last ah bit here for for you. it like i'm After Saturday, yes, it was pants, but I'm kind of... sick of the reactive nature of digging out certain players. I know that in some individual performances weren't great, but I think to question how good a professional footballer is after two games of a league, league games of a season anyway, is utterly absurd. and And players will always go through peaks and troughs with their form. it It's important to get that perspective
Speaker: and realize it's it's only two games, isn't it? Like leagues are never won in the third weekend of August. Yes, it's frustrating when you lose, but fundamentally you've got 44 league games to make up for it. And we've seen in this division so many sides who will be 10, 12 points adrift of the playoffs midway through the campaign and they end up getting promoted. you know it does It does happen. I'm not saying Norwich will get to that point, but fundamentally there's no point being doom and gloom in this early, is there?
Speaker: Absolutely not. i mean, we only need to take what happened last season, which was an abomination for what? August, September, October. At least four months. um This has been two games. So...
Speaker: We saw what we could overturn last season, having barely got a point in our first four months. and There's no need to worry. Also, a lot of those players, other players that achieved that um last time, they are not suddenly bad in this league.
Speaker: There's other teams that haven't won a game yet that you would imagine will be at the top of the league. Obviously, Steve's prediction of Burnley being no good is coming true. So horses or dark or otherwise. was the only one brave enough to say it, you know. Will you be brave enough after Saturday then? I'm not on next week, so that was technical.
Speaker: It's like, there's not a here, we can't we can't get carried away. We can't get too worried. um I'm sure Steve's got plenty of stats around our starts to seasons when we have we have won the league. um We're often not perfect at the start and then get into gear. um I think they were saying on the commentary...
Speaker: of the West Brom game, West Brom Burnley game at the weekend, how good West Brom boys start the season. They're like the opposite to us. And we know that rarely ends well for them. So um yeah, nothing to get too worried about.
Speaker: If we're still here in November and things are the same, then perhaps perhaps we need to be. But the amount of people that are suddenly sort of reigniting the fire against Ben Napa when things had sort of calmed calmed down so much um about his signings, I just, said yeah.
Speaker: just give it Just give it a few weeks. Let it all open out in front of us and let's see what we're dealing with. think I was going to say, I think part of the problem is that we've had the we've still got the scar tissue of the Liam Manning era and some of what we saw on Saturday was for the first time. It was just like a really brief flashback to, oh my God, yeah, remember when Slimani just looked like he couldn't trap a football? I remember when Fisher just couldn't complete a pass. And then ever since then, they've been like just unequivocally good. Cordoba, like for the red card, just...
Speaker: looked like he he was half a second behind, almost like slightly lazily tracking it. And we haven't seen it in yet. I would say that's because Darling has lost his man there and Cordoba's trying to help his mate out. I think that's probably probably true, but I mean, Cordoba didn't have a good game full stop. I thought he got just got bullied by Coburn, which again, we just haven't seen. So I think i think some of it harks back to that. Obviously, it's all ah a mega overreaction. um But his one good omen is the last time we were...
Speaker: In the bottom three, outside the top flight at least, at this stage, was 2009, when one of the only teams below us was Southampton on a points deduction.
Speaker: And we won the league. So, get that bus ready. ah i would also say I would say this sort of make that Saturday's result made me more annoyed about um the West Brom results because going to have stinkers in this league. There's 46 games you're going to put in a stinker occasionally, especially you know when you come against good opposition.
Speaker: So you've got to win those games that you dominate. We dominated against West Brom, created way more than they did, were much the better side. We all said last week and lots of people said last week that we win that game more often than than not.
Speaker: But the problem is, if you don't win those sort of games, you suddenly follow up with a stinker of performance, and that's six points dropped, potentially. um so And it's just a reminder of how harsh the championship is as well, how how tough it is. There are very few freebies.
Speaker: ah Yeah, absolutely. But you've got to remember as well that there was a point last year where we were, yeah albeit under Liam Manning, we were utter dross and we got points at Coventry and at Stoke that we had no ride to get in the end. So those kind of results, based on those performances, do they do come full circle in the end, really. Yeah.
Speaker: That's pretty much it for ah Saturday. I don't think we should talk about it for too much longer because it was complete dross. But hey, here's to next week. And now it's time for Sophie Leaney's One Word of the Week.
Speaker: Overrun. Overrun.
Speaker: overrun
Speaker: For the first time this season, we have a double header. A trip to Cardiff in the Carabao Cup awaits on Tuesday night before the visit of Burnley to Cowra Road on Saturday. Neither of those sides were playing championship football last season, with Cardiff carrying on their momentum from last year and Burnley stumbling their way back down to the championship.
Speaker: ah Dan, what sort of reaction do you expect to see from Norwich this week? And can we label any of these two games as a must win? um Well, this is a hiding for nothing, seeing as a lot of people probably listen to this podcast after the Cardiff result. So anything we say here might might sound stupid. um like I listened back after the Millwall result and we couldn't possibly sound more stupid than we did before predicting that game because we were all completely wrong in so many different ways.
Speaker: Some of you said 3-0, so there's that at least. Someone said 3-0 and then 2-2 and then said something like, and it'll be the same number of goals. don't know who that was, mate. I don't know what want about there. Sorry, Dan.
Speaker: So I do think there will be a reaction. I don't think there will be a reaction. I think we'll play really well, actually. I think we'll play really badly. I repeat, I will not be taking any of this out in the end.
Speaker: Yes, so... Yes, I expect a reaction. want... um When you've been stuffed like that, you know, it's going to hurt the players, especially this early on in this in the in the season. They're going to want to show a reaction. um Cardiff, we're playing a team that sort of seemed to be on the front foot a lot and sort of settled back into life in the championship pretty well.
Speaker: um and Burnley, maybe the opposite, haven't settled back into life particularly well, despite you know a good comeback win against West Ham, but they were sort of sort bits and pieces of the West Brom-Burnley game, and Burnley were outplayed for for much of it, I'd say. Still carry a huge amount of threat because of the sort of the talent they have in that squad, but um were outplayed um for the majority of it, I think. It's just interesting, I suppose, what...
Speaker: big Phil's going to do with his team now, especially against Cardiff. um i imagine that lineup will probably be pretty similar to what he wants to see against Burnley, while also obviously bearing in mind that he wants to give some of the new signings and some of the returning players minutes as well. And it's really, really heartening to hear that Siena's is in a position to get some minutes against Cardiff as well. That would be great. Hopefully the kind of Philip that raises a dressing room as well. It's a shame that Cordoba's suspended for the cup game. Obviously it's good that he means he's available for Burnley because it would be nice to see that McConville-Cordoba partnership brought back, I think. I think Darling is an excellent centre-back.
Speaker: He may even have more qualities in McConville, but I think on the evidence we've seen, McConville and Cordoba is the better partnership and they dovetail better together. And that really is what a lot of football is about, is creating those really good partnerships. Same with Kenny and Mattson in in midfield. So it's a shame we won't get to see those two back together. But imagine we will see McConville on Tuesday. And I imagine if, unless he puts in a stink, we'll probably see him reunited with Cordoba on Saturday as well. Hmm.
Speaker: it's It's a bit cliche, Steve, but they're two very different tests, isn't it? Both in terms of the context of the competitions and where the opposition is in each of their respective cycles, because one could argue it's the worst time to play Cardiff and maybe the best time to play Burnley. So how important is kind of bridging the gap between those those two types of opposition? And as Dan kind of alluded to, keeping some continuity in the team as Norwich themselves try to build some results. Well, Cardiff under Brian Barry Murphy, certainly League One, were very possession orientated. So I don't know if that will continue or whether they'll adapt in the Championship. But it'll be interesting if they do play like that. I wonder if they'll use the League Cup as an opportunity to see where they can go stylistically. And if so, does that give us us an opportunity to play a little bit more on the counter? Maybe. I would say the pressure is certainly more off tomorrow night. I know we'll be looking for... It's ah it's a Brigham must good performance maybe, but um I don't think we'll be hanging on the result.
Speaker: Burnley, yeah, does feel like it has a bit more bit more weight on it after the first two results. I'm curious to know, like, will we change things up for the League Cup game? And will that be, I mean, again, this is kind of uncharted territory under... Philippe Clermont, because he's never had a real stinker of a performance where he's gone, OK, right, well, now positions are up for grabs. But they might be. Tomorrow, like, you know, Darlene Jong-Mu may come in and play really, really well. Antti Cernat's probably not quite ready, but someone like Papadialo, a chance for him to prove himself, maybe even Matthias Kriskoran. There's nobody really on Saturday's performance who can say, I absolutely deserve my place.
Speaker: And I definitely agree with Dan. I have nothing massively against Harry Darling, but just looking at sort of recent numbers, we haven't don't actually kept the clean sheet in the last 10 games.
Speaker: um And that's roughly the time when Darling came in for McConville. Darling's played in nine of the last 10. And we kept, I think, six in our previous six clean sheets in our previous 11. And McConville played in nine of those games.
Speaker: So I don't really know why McConville, unless, you know, something we haven't seen in training, Darling, I know had a good pre-season. I'm not quite sure why he's not in the team at the moment. I think he will eventually make his way back in. But and I suspect we'll probably see the two of them playing together. Although Alves is in as well. Sorry.
Speaker: I have no idea. I have idea. The Colourgut won't be playing that much, I know. ah Zoe, this is a good chance on Tuesday to get um some minutes into the legs of those players now coming back. And for players like Bruno Alves as well, who haven't yet had a taste of the English game properly, um is is there anyone you would especially like to see start on Tuesday night? Obviously, McConville's been mentioned a lot in this in this preamble, but is there anyone else you what do you'd want to see get some minutes?
Speaker: That's an interesting one. And i I'm very torn with how I think he's going to play it as well, because part of me thinks, especially after what he did on Saturday when he... He gave the team that had been so bad in the first half longer to prove themselves.
Speaker: I've got a feeling that what he could do is just pick the same players and tell them to go out there and and do something good, um which might then limit um the the players that do get a bit of a go. um i would like to see Jong-Wa. I think we have struggled so much with that left-back position. It would be really nice to see... what sort of quality we've got as a currently a backup to Krizeny.
Speaker: And yeah, it will be adorable if Cernats gets some minutes and God, please let something good happen to that man. ah Because we talked about the sadness of Matej Juracek a couple of weeks ago, but the sadness of anti-Cernats has been going on for a long time. And I really want this season to be,
Speaker: the end of all that so let's let's get him a hat trick why not come on for the last 20 minutes 20 minute hat trick there we go another one we might see i guess is musaba and last week last week's pod we mentioned that um we saw a sheffield wednesday fan sort of saying he was like a speedboat without a driver and boy was he right i mean it was it was a pretty brief cameo and he was exciting and he certainly liked taking on his um fullback but i would say there was um there wasn't a ah there wasn't a chasm between what we remember of ornel hernandez i was literally gonna say he's like a less enthusiastic ornel isn't he basically which which is a bit Which is a bit of fun. And he was playing on the right and he prefers playing on the left and and all that. And I'll preface it again by saying it was quite exciting to see someone just legging it at their fullback. That was good. But yeah, I think that description may be accurate. I mean, it could be a player that we both love and hate very fondly in equal measures going forward. I think i think my favourite bit was he did that sort of lung-busting run with the ball and then found himself in a shooting position and just absolutely shanked it wide.
Speaker: right He always seemed, and my canty-sernouts, always seems to be smiling. Any kind of content the club put out and that he's in, he's always got a massive smile on his face and i feel like characters like that are very important in dressing rooms. Just um ahead of the Burnley game, if if people are thinking things aren't great at the moment, just a reminder of two of our most fun eras will be returning. um Aaron Ramsey, reminder of the Dean Smith era, and of course, Ashley Barnes, the David Vance.
Speaker: Oh, wow. And a genuine fun era. I know the season before the fun era started in Marcus Edwards as well. Of course. Oh, yeah.
Speaker: It was on loan from Spurs. And i've said I'm sure I've said this probably too many times on the podcast, but when I worked for the club, Marcus Edwards was the best player, Norwich player i I saw in training. He was unbelievable. And that includes, you know, Wes and Madison and Buendia. He was extraordinarily good.
Speaker: I'm not sure you have said that on the pod before. I was i was then going to say, what's what set him apart, Dan? Just the sort of the way you know really good players like slow down time when they're on the ball and create their own space.
Speaker: And bear in mind, you know he was going up you know and he was going up against a good squad with Marley Watkins and James' husband. And Marcel Franca. um Yeah, the way he sort of just created space. And like his teammates would talk about him as well, what a sort great player he was. But... for various reasons, including, I think, being having some incredibly bad advisors around him. He he never quite made it here, but, um you know, has done well in the Europa League, et cetera, and looked a bit looked to threat for them against West Brom at the weekend as well. So hopefully he has a stinker, though.
Speaker: I mean, thank God we weren't doing a podcast at that time, because otherwise it could but you'd have been coming on, it this lad is unbelievable. Unbelievable. He's going to tear it up for us in the championship.
Speaker: Three weeks later. oh yes, we've terminated his loan, guys. In the good news for Brighams also, ah there's no return for another blast from the NCFC past in Scott Parker because he ain't got a jab no more. Yeah.
Speaker: Don't know what to think about Burnley now. The new blokes, just just a guy who once managed Haverford West, isn't he? Yeah. Well, and Genk and Club Bruges, our manager. Two Belgians in the dugout. That's fun.
Speaker: I guess. For them, maybe. Yeah, thinking about it, is it? Probably not, actually. let's ah let Let's move on to Burnley, Steve. In terms of ah fixtures, and they've had a similar start to Norwich and they themselves only have a point, but both sides will have similar aspirations as well. ah How big of a mountain would defeat leave Norwich to climb, both logistically and psychologically, should they lose on Saturday?
Speaker: Well, it's tough when you've got these obvious dark horses who everybody is backing to do well, um except me, obviously. So I think we're clearly going to win by lots and lots and lots of goals.
Speaker: If we don't... Yeah, I mean, at what point does... After how many defeats do we start to hit the panic button? I i i don't think we will lose. I did say that before Millwall. fact, I think I said we would win. But...
Speaker: Yeah, two two defeats to start the season at home. We've we've been there before and it doesn't feel great. and I think, I don't know, like can you be heartened by the fact that, well, at least the two teams who we played are currently in the top two, but I guess that's in no small part to having played at Norwich City. Burnley are, you know, like I saw a little bit of their game against West Ham and there's clearly something there. Zian Fleming.
Speaker: Looks like a player who will get goals at this level if he stays for them, which, of course, he may not. and and they Wasn't in the squad yesterday. Yeah, so hopefully won't be again. and they didn't who was Was it Breuer who played up front for them?
Speaker: Yeah. So, you know, hopefully he also gets injured and then we get to see Ashley Barnes up top again. and Do we really want that? to what and in that he might score. i don't remember you being massively worried about opposition to French when Barnard was here. It does feel inevitable though, doesn't it? Yeah. um I can't remember the last time he did score against it. It might have been for us um So yeah, I...
Speaker: ah cannot I cannot foresee us playing as badly as we did on Saturday again. i do think Big Phil will have a plan and will have sorted something out. And yeah, as you so as you said, we've got the Cardiff game in between now and then anyway. So yeah, it might be that we're just a cup team. We're just going be a cup team this year.
Speaker: Could i can I offer a couple of, well, just no, one hot take on Burnley. Zian Fleming, going back to him. Hasn't he got one of those faces that is immediately completely dislikable? He has got that sort of weird, sort of like slightly uncomfortable intensity of Luke O'9 from Sunderland, who I think is also intensely sort of, don't trust him.
Speaker: That's my feeling. i poptae I'm just looking at his face. He's always got one of those um nose strips. He's got an early 90s haircut, which I know is all the rage probably, but he does look like he's from the early 90s as well, I think. Yeah, he looks like he would be in the smoking area of All Bar One, like hitting a vape every three seconds.
Speaker: ah Which, to be fair, is a thoroughly unlikable trait, so I'm not disputing that at all. His face sort of straddles that thin line between ah Uber detective and serial killer as well. You don't know which where which side of that line he lands. Yeah, anti-hero. It's giving Dexter kind of vibes. His name is basically the same as the guy who wrote the James Bond books. so you know that's Oh my gosh, yeah.
Speaker: Wow. Yeah. Oh. goingnna be made on this floor wow click that one out yeah I've never elicited that noise from anyone before. So this is where Ryan asks if Norwich are going to be shaken or stirred against Burnley. or Or if they're going to...
Speaker: Die another day. Yeah, or... I don't know. Live and let die? Live and let die. If they're going to, I know... Goldfinger. Goldfinger, they're going to Moonraker win. I don't know what that means.
Speaker: Whatever. You probably should have just copied Dan and said, will they be shaken and not stirred? Go on, that's that's that's a lovely segue. Dan, are they going to shaken or so or stirred by this week? Bertley or Norwich...
Speaker: Why not? Let's do both. Yeah, one of us will be shaken and the other one will be stirred. And i go I'm going to Norwich the team that are stirred, stirring into action. Nice. And what about for Cardiff on Tuesday? Are they going to be... i was going to try and do a Welsh accent then, but maybe maybe not. Has there been a Welsh bond?
Speaker: ah No, but there might be in future. We don't know. i i believe that Alan Partridge ridicules the idea of a Welsh Bond in Alan Partridge. I can hear him say 007.
Speaker: what do we think So, Dan, you've gone for Norwich to beat Burnley. Are they going to beat Cardiff on Tuesday? Yes, I think so. i think a really refreshing, attacking performance. Even a clean sheet in there.
Speaker: no who Zoe, what do you think of this week? Oh, yeah, two wins. Why not? um i think I think Tuesday, but game against Hardiff is a bit of a free pass to try and recover recover some of that lost spirit from Saturday um and then take that good feeling into into Saturday's game.
Speaker: And, there yeah, win 5-0 or something. Nice. Steve? I think we will beat Cardiff in the Cup. We owe them after the last time we played. Was it last time we played them when we were winning in injury time? Or the last time we played them at their place? i think Yes, yeah. lost to them But they went down, so you know and take that. And I think maybe draw against Burnley. It's one of the only points they'll get this season, obviously, but I just think, yeah, that might be a tricky one.
Speaker: nice I don't know, man. There is our course this year. ah Oh, addict but that a doubt course nothing like this I nearly just died. since yeah yeah Holt, Houlihan, Huckabee and the other Holt, ah all Hulliver players who may feature in our next segment. I'll hand over to Steve Sanders, who can reveal the first players to appear in our eagerly anticipated top 25 Norwich City players of the 21st century. It's Canary Countdown.
Speaker: Thank you, Ryan. Yes, we did not prepare this before and I am just going to go straight into the jingle. Here it is.
Speaker: It's Titti! Harland goal! Grand Holt! Frenchie!
Speaker: With apologies to Europe, if you're listening, which you obviously aren't for some definite copyright infringement. It's some of your best work that, Steve. Well done. Well, I owe it all to Europe. I owe it all to the 80s. Yes, today we are officially starting the Canary Countdown, as Ryan has said. of the top 25 Norwich City players this century, as voted for by you, me, the rest of the guys on this podcast, and the great unwashed Norwich City public. Nearly 400 of you voted for your top 25 Norwich City players this century. That's almost enough to sell out Currow Road during those games in the COVID era. You put your choices from first... to 25th, or that's what you were supposed to do anyway. So thank you to everyone who sent their vote in. These have now officially been counted and verified with first place getting 25 points, second place 24 points, and so on, all the way down to one point for your 25th pick. And naturally, I've taken great delight in crunching all of those numbers to determine who the official Norwich City top 25 players are. And we will be, as is tradition with the countdown, starting with the highest number, which in this case is 25, and finishing at number one later on this season.
Speaker: I should add that, as with most things on this podcast, I have all the knowledge and my fellow panellists are completely ignorant. So they will be hearing the announcements at the same time as you are looking on this call. Ryan chewing his fingernails now. Dan's sitting on his hands. Zoe looks like she's about to wee herself.
Speaker: So um I'll ask the question. can Can we say now that these, as you don't know who they are, can we say that these 25 entering our very own Norwich City Hall of Fame? Is that that fair to say?
Speaker: Yeah, I'd say so. um I'll go with that. I'll go with that. Great. Well, hopefully. yeah i mean, unless we all completely disagree and decide that they're not allowed to.
Speaker: feel like yeah perhaps i'll ask you again this is podcast this is where we find out whether we like our listeners or not
Speaker: Hey, listen, some of them are paying us now, Dan, so you have to like them. They're the best ones. Great opinions, all of them. Remember, you're ah you're definitely allowed to have your own opinion, but we have to agree with it. and Specifically, Dan must agree with it. and Today, we're looking at our first two.
Speaker: um So those are number 25 and number 24. And of course, because this is a countdown, each player... does need to have their own jingle and because it's more interesting and exciting than me announcing them. So um here, without further ado, is the 25th best Norwich player this century.
Speaker: Number 25
Speaker: That is just the sort of music I would have bought in the early noughties. I really liked that. That is the most fucking anime intro I've ever heard in my life.
Speaker: ah So, yeah, we're talking about Nathan The 25th. Cameron Zishan Rana Jerome, born in Huddersfield in 1986. He joined Norwich City in what year, Ryan? 2014.
Speaker: Correct. From Dan? Stoke City. Bloody hell, this is going well. For a fee of around one and a half million and left in what year, Zoe?
Speaker: My God. 2020. um twenty
Speaker: 17? Oh, Join what club, Ryan? Derby County. Correct, for a fee also of around 1.5 million. but you know So net net neutral, but did a lot of his time. Is that a thing? Net zero. He's carbon carbon neutral. um He scored 42 goals in 138 games in his four years. With us came third in the Player of the Season Award in 2014-15 season in which he scored 21 goals for the canaries and was voted man of the match in their 2-0 playoff final win against middlesbrough in 2015 so i'm just going to put it out there well i'll ask you first ryan um what do we think cameron jerome is on the list are we are we happy about that do we have good memories does he deserve to be there Yeah, I'd say so. i mean, he scored one of the goals in arguably the most memorable standalone game in of of Norris City's 21st century. So one of them, at least. um I don't remember him putting a foot wrong when he was here with us in the championship, at least.
Speaker: ah all wait I mean, the Premier League, is there was a whole different kettle of fish, let's but let's be honest. But at the very least, at twenty fourteen fifteen season, he was excellent. 2016-17 was pretty good as well, and he was a ah cult figure, if nothing else, for refusing to join Ipswich in 2018 as well. So, yeah, do you know what? I'm more than happy with him to be in the top 25.
Speaker: I'd completely forgotten about him refusing to join Nickovich, but, um well, unthinkable. no one No one's done it before or since and one would even consider it. and Dan, you would have overlapped with Jerome, am I right, while you were there? And, you know, thoughts? Yeah, it was Dan, Graben and Jerome with the three striking options. I was keeping Carl Lafferty out of that team. Yeah.
Speaker: ah You're incredibly quick. You overlapped him while you were there. So yes, what did you think? I mean, a supreme championship striker got the Alex Neal era off and running by banging one in at Bournemouth when Alex Neal came running down from the stands to introduce himself in the in the dugout. Stick Alex Tetty at right back, I think, and ah Jerome scored the winner, i i think. Steve, i'm sure you'd be able to correct me if if that is untrue. Yeah.
Speaker: And yeah, he sort of I suppose he didn't have a lot of finesse as a finisher, which is probably why he did not thrive in the Premier League for us because he needed that little bit of extra time and a few more opportunities to get his goals to chances ratio up. But in a team that created plenty of chances...
Speaker: uh in the championship he he was excellent and he wasn't just you know um you know of ah someone who you could rely on to get goals in the championship he worked center backs really really well and really hard was um ran the channels you know it wasn't massively dissimilar to holtie uh in that way as well but i think what i think i liked most about him was his honesty when daniel farke turned up um demanded double training sessions and Cameron thought sod that I'm off I'm too old for double training sessions I'm a single training session kind of guy I want out but I didn't kick up a fuss and went with everyone's best wishes I think yeah I guess, yeah, 25 is be interesting, obviously, to see where other strikers from this century are on that list.
Speaker: um I think we said last year, might even have been on the bonus episode for our Patreon subscribers, where we talked about the two goal scorers at Wembley maybe being slightly sort of underappreciated in Redmond and Jerome. It'd be funny if Redmond's number 24 next, by the way. And yeah, I think maybe that's probably down to the fact that Jerome didn't really hack it in the Premier League. um But who knows if that if Simon Hooper hadn't been reffing that game in that infamous overhead kick goal that was disallowed, maybe things would have been even better for Jerome at Norwich.
Speaker: Yeah, my my me I mean, that was that was the season where it didn't go so well. But the season that obviously where he arrived, Zoe... I remember thinking, do we really need another centre forward? Like we had quite a few and we were only really playing with one, but Jerome forced his way to the front of that list and never really let go. You know, I think there was a spell where Grabber maybe came back in towards the end of that season, but Jerome was was number one for purely on on performances and and kind of deserved it.
Speaker: Yeah. And if you're talking about um Jerome being ah someone... who sort of didn't cause much of a fuss, ah compare that with Lewis Graben potentially, and you've you've got another reason to to pick him. I think um I would say Cameron Jerome was at the absolute epitome of a confidence player.
Speaker: He, when things were going well, he looked absolutely, unbeatable he you know especially in the championship. um He really did have that presence.
Speaker: He was a goal scorer. um But when things were going a little bit badly, God, did he look sad. And I'm talking about, like, you can see it in his eyes. He looked sad. um And I think he he needed more than some, player you know, some other players needed that arm around him, needed that...
Speaker: sort of, i guess, belief and that he was going to do well. And I think sometimes the fans probably got on his back and it affected him ah potentially, which is why maybe he is a little bit underrated. But in terms of his contribution, know, it's hard. it's It's difficult to argue that he doesn't deserve um his place in this esteemed list of men.
Speaker: Elite list, I think, yes. Steve, you mentioning that the sort of competition for strikers. I think this is right, that signing him is the reason we did not sign... callant Well, why Callum Wilson chose Bournemouth, because he thought there was too much competition at Norwich. um And i obviously, Callum Wilson went on to be a slightly more effective Premier League striker than Cameron Jerome. Sure. I thought Jerome signed for us after the season had started, um but I think Wilson had already gone to Bournemouth at that point. So I wonder if Jerome was our other option for Callum Wilson, because I think Graben, Hooper and Lafferty were all there at that stage. um well That's a motley crew, isn't it? Now that I look back, ah of course we needed to another story. I'm not going to the Premier League. I'll be reading some of the the eulogies um from the comments that we got. um
Speaker: from people who sent their votes in. And Ben, who, bracket, lives in Edinburgh, said, thank you for the location, Ben. I hope Jerome makes the 25. Underrated, in my opinion. Amount of times you could ping a hopeless ball up top and he would somehow get onto it. Sure wasn't PL quality, but he was better than Grab and Hooper. And let's face it, wasn't a selfish knob like the other two. That's that end-low knob. the OTP podcast. um And the wonderfully named Chandler Elsbecker said, I gave Cameron Jerome the last spot on my ballot. So this one's for you, Chandler, exactly where you put him. Not entirely logically, as he showed in the Premier League that how deeply flawed he was as a striker, but I loved him. Fans overestimate their ability to identify when a player really cares and is putting forth effort. But players like Jerome, whose game relied so much on hard work, do really stand out in an endearing way.
Speaker: He was the right lead striker for that version of Norwich. That's nice. and Pretty well. um Highest anyone put in was in fourth. That was Lucas Wallace and um Ian Willie Wiseman, who I can tell you is not actually called that, but is called Ian Wise. and So that one's for you. but Well, let's move swiftly on to number 24 then. Now. Number saith.
Speaker: Borra Sainz. Borra Sainz.
Speaker: Go on. Because he's Spanish. He might be in danger of cultural appropriation at some point. It's like a Zumba class, that. I mean, it was great. Did you guys ever go to Pedro's in Chapelfield Gardens when it was thing? Yeah, I feel like that plays as soon as you walk in the door. It feels appropriate that we're all wearing Mexican hats, especially as he is Spanish. LAUGHTER
Speaker: first same minute Well, I'd probably take that. god you do ah Can you get more English in calling sombreros Mexican hat?
Speaker: No wonder they all hate us. And we put you in a World Cup. um Yes, Borja Sainz Eguskica, born in Leoa, Spain in 2001. Apologies for all of that pronunciation. He joined Norwich City in what year, Dan?
Speaker: God. 2022?
Speaker: twenty twenty three Didn't need to be that high, but it was correct. From what club, Zoe? Oh, God. I can't remember.
Speaker: Sporting Spain. You're a sunspor in Turkey on a free transfer and left in 2025. I could have told you 2025. Oh, I said 2025. You were supposed to guess that, but too late. Ryan, to join who?
Speaker: porto Porto £14.25 million. Sainte scored six goals in his first Norwich City season, but took off in twenty twenty four twenty five under Hof Torrup when he scored 18 goals, was Championship Player of the Month for September and October, and in the PFA Championship Team of the Year. But as if to show Norwich City fans have high standards and short memories, only came third in our Player of the Season award that season, and is only 24th.
Speaker: in our ah best century players. What are calling this? Canary Countdown. Zoe, fair, unfair? what do What do we think? Obviously much more recent than Jerome. Yeah, some of the it's difficult with some of these recent players to really be able to I don't know, put them in the same misty-eyed context as we can put some of the the other plate the sort of players we look upon from a distance quite fondly. Yeah, science is a weird one.
Speaker: um That year was a strange season. He played very well, um but was one of those players that sort of had a great song.
Speaker: People went from loving him to being like very displeased with him quite easy easily. I think he wasn't always sort of I don't know. He wasn't always flavour of the month. And I think the whole spitting incident certainly tarred his, ah the way a lot of people felt about him. um And I remember us talking sort of when we were all so optimistic before we started Liam Manning's reign ah in our pre-season predictions. We were all merrily saying, don't really care that he's left. We probably won't notice. ah And maybe that was a bit...
Speaker: ah ah early to say that and perhaps we did miss him more than more than it felt like we were going to um but yeah and and an interesting player because at his best it's hard to say that he wouldn't deserve to be in this list but he certainly wasn't always at his best i would say Yeah, I think that's probably fair. By the way, I'm not having you ah pull up my Spanish tropes and then praise a song in which he's told that he loves paella. Catchy though, isn't it? Catchy. I bet he does as well.
Speaker: I bet he bloody loves it. I bet he bloody loves that jingle. He's just never heard it. Ryan, not much to disagree with with what Zoe said, but my God, I mean, what a heater he was on on that the first half of that season. um And obviously while we were recording this nonsense. So, you know, um gave him a lot of praise at the time, I recall.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, he was on a generational run at one point, wasn't he? Like projected to be Alexander Mitrovic's ridiculous record in the in the championship. But then, as Zoe said, spat at someone and was just never the same again. I don't know if it was the saliva build-up that really got him going through the first half of that season. But I can remember, certainly against Borough barra and uh darby in particular he kind of put in some of the best individual performances that any player has done for norris city in the last certainly five or or six years or so and on his day as as predictable as he as he kind of might have been he just knew what he was doing but did it very very well to the point where He mastered it so much so it was unplayable, you know, and he could pull something out of nothing a lot of the time, which I think Norwich needed at the start of that that season as they were kind of finding their footing under Torrup. And he's another one as well. When you think of the kind of the net spend, they ended up accruing for him. They made 14 million pounds from absolutely nothing. And it's a weird one because you shouldn't look at players like that. But fundamentally, he had half of an excellent season in in what was about one and two thirds because he he took a bit of time to get up to speed under under David Wagner in that 23-24 season. But it's strange because i he's another one who i
Speaker: I don't hold him in the same esteem as Gabriel Sauer, for example, but arguably Gabriel Sauer did less for Norwich than Borja Sainz did if we're looking on strictly on individual output. So it's it's ah it's a it's a yeah it's an unusual one, that. I i do think he was a a cracking player on his day and...
Speaker: to be honest But to be honest with you, as much as I would say it's fair for him to be in the top 25, I wouldn't have had him any higher than where he where he is. And perhaps that's ah a hot take, a controversial opinion. But i yeah, very, very good player. But I can certainly name a few a few more who I think are more deserving of being on higher up on that list.
Speaker: well if you want more hot takes, you have to listen to the Patreon because that is where we'll be revealing where we put each of these players. mean, he's gone to Porto what ah just over a year ago and I've hardly thought of about him since. um But he does have a lovely beard, Dan.
Speaker: He certainly has. yes Does he, though? I've not even i've not looked. He looks exactly the same. as he okay has't I still follow him on Instagram. He hasn't gone full lumberjack. has Is he still like crafted his hair? It's very solid.
Speaker: It always looks a lot more human in those rare behind-the-scenes videos where he hadn't crafted his hair and it's bouncing around and and flopping everywhere. yeah Weird one for me. i bit like the TV show Mad Men, which I can't decide whether yeah it's brilliant or just, you know, a bit of a crappy soap opera.
Speaker: Was Sainz brilliant or was he a bit rubbish? He obviously could score some absolute bangers. But ah like a singer that can't play like any instruments. Did he have anything more than just his bangers?
Speaker: I don't know. He's the Liam Gallagher of Norwich. He can play a couple of chords. um Like... He went through that patch of scoring incredible goals. And then for the rest of his sort of four or five months at Norwich, it was just a case of every match going, come on, score some more brilliant goals for God's sake. What are you doing? It didn't really seem to bring much else.
Speaker: like There was a little period where he was getting in at the near post and finishing off chances. That disappeared pretty quickly as well. Yeah, weird player. Can't work him out. And he's right in my wheelhouse of quite you know tricky, small...
Speaker: creative players that I should have fallen in love with him. But yeah, I liked him, but I could never really love him. I think that there was a period, I think we spoke about it on the podcast at the time, that he kind of got a bit high on himself to the point where when the chips were down, he would take the ball and go, all right, I'll sort this off so sort this out myself then, forgetting that he had another...
Speaker: six odd players in the attacking areas to help him out really but he just kind of took it upon himself and would frequently lose the ball uh get quite pissed off and then would lose his head a little bit and would that kind of so sort of early early stages of Buendia would kind of lose his head and like kick an advertising hoarding and not really track back and would perhaps cause more problems defensively than what Norwich needed as well and I think it's that kind of immaturity that maybe does set him back compared to a lot of the other players on what we'll see on this list, certainly, but arguably a couple of players he would have played with certainly in that 23, 24 season.
Speaker: Well, he wasn't in Mad Men, but he certainly sounds like a mad man. Nick Cleaver, I think, summed it up by saying that Sainz in the second half of 2023-24, and in particular the first half of 24-25, was simply incredible, even if he always seemed to be a bit of a lone maverick, which I think is kind of what you guys have summed up there. um Only one person put him in their top three, which I assumed would be some Gen Z child. But no, it was John Denby who started watching in 1959. We put him in second place. So hopefully John will be listening and can launch an impassioned defense of what was supposed to be some nice words about him. But yeah, you know, got to give, got to call it as you see it, guys. um
Speaker: Only one player played with both Cameron Jerome and Borja Sainz. Any guesses as to who it was? oh o Not the obvious one. No, I didn't.
Speaker: The right position. Oh, would have been Angus Gunn then. Angus played with both Jerome and Sainz, but was the only one to do so. and So if you want more of that sort of nerdy stuff, then I suggest you hop on over to our bonus Patreon podcast, which is exclusively for OTB subscribers, where we'll be delving into these two a little bit more and their Norwich City careers, talking about the best moments, debating whether they were robbed of a better place, and which then we'd rather be stuck in a lift with and other such rubbish.
Speaker: the discussion actually started on the top 25 last week on our patron, but being the little snides that we are, we launched it by looking at the players. It didn't get a single vote. So if, um, if you want a little, um, blast from the past of some of our really awful players, miss you give that a listen and we also talked to them about some of the comments we got, uh, which you can hear a little clip of here.
Speaker: Tom McInnes can vouch for this because he asked me to discount anything outside of his top 10 as he could only name 10 players and filled the rest in at random. When I say he could only name 10, he only had 10 that he wanted to name. So the rest was just good. But thank you, Tom, for declaring that. Thank you for your honesty. I think others may have done that and not declared it, judging by some the picks. Do you think...
Speaker: Tom has a limit of how many he can like at one time. So it has to be 10. And one of them has to drop out for someone to come in. Which is a nightmare watching a game of football because there are 11 on the pitch at any nightre and you despise As soon as someone gets sent off, he's like, oh,
Speaker: ah and Thank you to Josh Piper, who started following us in 2019. So I'm assuming you're quite young if you're listening, Josh. I did have to take out six of your seven Todd Cantwells, though. I'm sorry about that. You did not weird listening to ourselves from week ago? I do not remember that at all. Also, i I only ever listen when I'm not on it, and I always listen on like 1.5 speed, so that that was slow. That really is the speed and pitch you talk at, Dan. I was also really hoping that you were just going to drop that in in in post-record. not i think I probably will. because
Speaker: none of us i don't think any of us enjoy that people being physically sick on this call uh anyway hopefully you did though because that sort of thing will be over on our bonus podcast um just hop onto patreon and i'm assuming search otb norwich city don't actually know it works uh and donate two pounds a month uh a huge huge thank you again um to everyone who's already done so your award is going to be around half an hour of us chatting more about this um and that was the first edition of canary countdown
Speaker: And that leads us on nicely to Kenny other business. Just the one thing from me, Norwich city won their first ever game at step three of the women's football pyramid on Sunday. Goals from Grace Riglar and Naya Dunbar's first for the club sealed a two nil win for the Canaries at Hull ahead of a fixture at home to Cambridge on Tuesday in the women's national league cup group stage. Well done girls guys. Anything else for Kenny other business this week?
Speaker: Well, one thing just from me, um i know we were on Alex Neal Tan Watch last ah last podcast. One member of the Norwich City bench, absolutely out tanning ah Alex Neal, Declan Rudd, has got one of the most intense summer holiday tans I have seen. So, yeah, he he won the tan wars. Like Declan Rudd, am I right? LAUGHTER Well, I feel brown. yeah Good one,
Speaker: um We've had a couple of questions um from our listeners on our various social media channels. We are now on Twitter or X as you're supposed to call it. um We are at OTB underscore pod underscore NCFC, I think. um So we've had one ah one question ah from Copper Tom saying, does Clement give too much away in pre-match press conferences?
Speaker: I don't know if you can give too much away now in pre-match press conferences, right? I feel like there's so much information that is so easily accessible for other teams that you could just say whatever you want and they're more than likely have known about the thing you're talking about a few days in advance anyway. So I don't know if he if he does per se, but what do you guys think?
Speaker: If Millwall's coaching staff were wondering, I wonder which nations have have got VAR, then he definitely said too much. Definitely. I feel like he just uses, I'm not going to tell you that because i don't want to give him too much away as ah a reason just to not bother answering a question he can't be bothered to answer, I think, a lot of the time. um he um He said something, I think, this week about, like, I don't find out as much from other people's press conferences as people can find out from mine. So I think he's getting a bit... I think he's trying to give that impression, but I'm not sure he actually does ever share...
Speaker: I'm not really clear what the allegation is that he said that he shouldn't have said, if that makes sense. Does anybody know where... Is he too emotional? Is that a suggestion in his... saw that there's some managers who definitely drop a few porkies about there.
Speaker: the fitness state of their squad ahead of games. I think John Massino at Portsmouth is quite famous for pretending players are not going to be fit for the upcoming match. And then they they're in the starting level. and But I don't know. That doesn't that doesn't feel very sporting, does it? oh Paul Lambert used to do that a lot where he'd pretend that someone was just out with a little niggle and then it would turn out that they'd have to have their leg chopped off or something. i hate it's It's usually the other way around for us in that we expect somebody to be in the team and then it drops us. Oh, Pally Mattson's not playing. Great. Yeah. yeah I want more from, I want to i want to hear hear about his home life. Yeah. What films does he like? Yeah.
Speaker: I want his letterbox top for the press conference on Friday. Or him to just get out a bit of paper and go, my mother's maiden name, my salt cold, i just see whoever gets there first.
Speaker: um We do know that his wife thinks he's eating too much at the training ground. he's said that at least once before. So that's an interesting one. Well, I mean, he's had a bad week generally with the VAR ah stuff and the result, but also probably his worst attire yet. He did look like a had a Top Gear presenter with his shirt tucked into jeans. Yeah. That t-shirt was weird.
Speaker: Did not like it. Move on, please, Big Phil. um One thing I would like to know, I think um another question that we've had, um what is the best way to de-stress after a truly awful game like that? um I'd like to know what Big Phil does to de-stress, but also what would you what do you guys do?
Speaker: um Like a nice green tea, a long hot bath, um and if that doesn't work, just go down the pub and smash someone's face in.
Speaker: While also, you know, bringing up stats from the game. Yeah, stat attack. Batting one fist while punching with the other fist. I've got this image of you in a weather spoons and like a robe, your hair in a turban with cucumbers on your eyes and a green tea in a pub going, oh, this is crap. it's Smacking everyone. It's a great way to unwind. Really couldn't recommend it highly enough. um I've never been in a fight, no.
Speaker: yeah that's a good That's a good question. i I'm a bit of a film boy, so I often just stick on a film and escape reality for a bit. I think there was a game ah we got absolutely smashed a couple of years ago at home. That'd be the Wagner ones. And I just went and watched Mean Girls straight after the game.
Speaker: so Do you know what? What's on? Mean Girls, the musical film? Yeah, go on, why not? And it was way better than watching Shane Duffy try and defend for 90 minutes. So, yeah, that's that's my kind of escape from things. You don't pop to the local cinema, or pick a film, and then start smashing people in the face.
Speaker: yeah i journey turns a tra swing yeah popcor I'm You might want to try it. You really might. Okay. I mean, on Saturday, I went to ah Mount Grace Priory in the north in North Yorkshire, so ah straight after the game, and that was very nice, and I forgot all about it. So I can thoroughly recommend ah getting some history and learning about some monks. It really puts things into perspective.
Speaker: I would say Phil Clement would have had great monk vibes. You can imagine him in his sort of traitor-esque robe with that sort of ah hair around his bald patch at the bottom of it.
Speaker: I think he must struggle to be silent. He's got Friar Tuck vibes is what I'm trying to say, I think. and maybe Maybe that's why you went, Steve. You saw Alex Neal and Phil Clement in the dugout and was like, I'm really getting in the urge to just learn about some monks right now.
Speaker: I need to see more bald people in my life. i bet they weren't tanned like Alex Neal, was they?
Speaker: Oh, that is it? That's it? I have no more ways to unwind. Literally none. no I suppose I'll do a plug as we're talking about Big Phil's um list of countries that have VAR.
Speaker: I have written, as part of our Substack thing, our series of why we love I've written, why we love not having VAR in the championship. I'm very sorry, Phil. I do disagree with you on this one. um So if you head to hit Substack and search OTB and RTD Podcast on there, you'll find all our lovely writings.
Speaker: That's right. And we're also on Patreon. If you head there as well and search for OTB at Norwich City Podcast, you for just £2 a month can get access to exclusive episodes and content on there too. We are also over on Instagram as at OTB underscore pod at underscore NCFC. And we are now on Twitter on there as Zoe.
Speaker: The same as Instagram. Amazing. At otb underscore pod underscore ncfc. That's all for tonight's show. A big thank you to Zoe Morgan. Thank you, Ryan.
Speaker: Dan Brigham. thanks. And I've just remembered to answer the big question that posed at the start of the podcast. Yes. Hands up. um It isn't three countries.
Speaker: and Begin with A and don't end in A. It is two. And we've already answered Hey. been trying to think of that the whole time. Yeah, sorry if I strung anyone along, but there's only two of them. Everyone else, every other country begins with A and ends with A. Good fact.
Speaker: Good fact. And thank you to Steve Sanders as well. Thank you, Ryan. Until the next one, never mind the danger.
