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Reverse Mysteries
0 Playsin 12 hours
In this episode, Brook and Sarah discuss reverse mysteries, or "how catch 'ems," where the audience knows who the culprit is from the beginning.
Discussed and mentioned
Columbo (1971–2003) Television series
Malice Aforethought (1931) Francis Iles (Anthony Berkeley Cox)
The 12:30 from Croydon (1934) Freeman Wills Crofts
Mr. Pottermack’s Oversight (1930) R. Austin Freeman
Dial M for Murder (1954) Alfred Hitchcock — Film adaptation of Frederick Knott’s 1952 play
How to Kill Your Employer (2022) Rupert Holmes
Dexter (TV Series: 2006-2013)
Midsomer Murders (TV series: 1997-present)
Catch Me If You Can (2002 film)
You (2014) Caroline Kepnes (Netflix adaptation: 2018-2025)
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Music: Signs To Nowhere by Shane Ivers – www.silvermansound.com
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For a full episode transcript, visit https://cluedinmystery.com/reverse-mysteries/
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Focus
00:00:11
Speaker
Welcome to Clued in Mystery. I'm Sarah. And I'm Brooke, and we both love mystery. hi Brooke. Hi, Sarah.
00:00:22
Speaker
Well, you know, most of the time when we pick up a mystery, we're asking one big question. Who done it?
Inverted Detective Stories Explained
00:00:29
Speaker
But today we're talking about a fascinating twist on that formula, the so-called how catch them or inverted detective story.
00:00:38
Speaker
In this type of mystery, we already know who committed the crime. There's no question about the identity of the villain for the audience. Instead,
History and Notable Examples
00:00:48
Speaker
the suspense lies in a different question, how will they be caught?
00:00:54
Speaker
This structure isn't new. As early as 1912, R. Austin Freeman was experimenting with what he called the inverted detective story. So he would deliberately reveal the crime and the criminal up front and then shift the tension to the investigation itself.
00:01:13
Speaker
In the 1930s, writers like Anthony Berkeley and Niall Marsh were using the technique, showing that authors were also playing with reverse mysteries during the Golden Age.
00:01:26
Speaker
Berkeley's Malice Aforethought, under his pen name Francis Isles, is an example of this type of mystery. The term Howe Ketchum, though, wasn't coined until 1963 by Philip MacDonald.
00:01:43
Speaker
But most of today's mystery fans will recognize the format from the show Columbo, where every week we would watch the murderer execute the crime in meticulous detail, only to see what they thought was a perfect plan unravel under the detective's careful investigation.
00:02:04
Speaker
By
Columbo's Storytelling and Impact
00:02:05
Speaker
giving viewers or readers an inside peek at the criminal's plan, writers create this enjoyable cat and mouse game where the audience has more information than the detective, or at least they think they do.
00:02:21
Speaker
So today we'll talk about how this style of mystery differs from traditional whodunnits and why knowing the killer up front doesn't necessarily spoil the fun, it Definitely changes the game, though.
00:02:36
Speaker
So, Sarah, did you grow up watching Columbo? Columbo, think, is a little before my time. I'm certainly familiar with Peter Falk and the, you know, the trench coat and the one more thing. um But i I mean, maybe I've seen some episodes, but I was really young. And so I don't I don't have much of a ah memory.
00:03:00
Speaker
I was the same and I watched some Columbo this week, uh, in thinking about how catch them's. And I, my husband told me how much he did not like this show as a kid at all, because one of the things that Peter Falk does as the character is sort of play dumb.
00:03:19
Speaker
Right. And he, ah acts as if he's like this bumbling detective when actually he's got things figured out. And apparently that was not a trope that my husband found entertaining at all, but he did suffer through a few episodes with me. And I did not watch it a lot when I was a kid either, but I do find that I like that It is a reversal. We have the entire plan, the entire crime laid out for us, and then we get to watch how the detective picks it apart. So um
Adapting Inverted Mysteries for Screen vs. Books
00:03:56
Speaker
I did find it entertaining. One thing this format does is it really allows for authors um or people
00:04:06
Speaker
producers of shows to play with things like dual timelines and point of view shifts, because obviously part of the part of the show or the mystery is from the killer's perspective. And part of it is from the detectives.
00:04:24
Speaker
And I do think that this ah scenario it tends to be easier to pull off on screen than in books. Do you agree, Sarah?
00:04:37
Speaker
i I think so. I will admit, I i don't know that I've read a lot of inverted mysteries. um But yeah, I mean, i I can probably think of some more um examples on screen. I think of, I'm not sure if this would
Modern Inverted Mystery Influences
00:04:53
Speaker
qualify or not,
00:04:54
Speaker
But I think of Midsommar Murders and often the opening scene is a figure, you see hands that are in black gloves and they are doing something that causes someone else to be dead, right? um Either manipulating some machinery or actually, you know strangling or or attacking someone. But we don't know the identity of that person until the detective does his reveal.
00:05:22
Speaker
So I'm not sure if that would if that would count. I definitely think that that is like we can trace it back to ah to the more traditional Hal Ketchum's. And I think that it's interesting that you say, you know, I don't feel like I've read any because that's what I ended up coming up with myself. And i think the detective story version of these that ran out, I guess, in the, around the golden age. I mentioned Malice of Forethought. Another example of a detective story that's told in this reverse manner is a 1934 novel by Freeman Wills Crofts, and it's called The 1230 from Croydon. And then also I mentioned R. Austin Freeman,
00:06:12
Speaker
And his 1930 book that features a premeditated murder is Mr. Pottermax Oversight. So I think there was a real um maybe boom of these for ah for a period of time. And I would agree. I don't think we see a lot of them these days, but I do think we see the Howe Ketchum idea in psychological thrillers, because many times we know what is going on with the villain, even though we're mostly in the head of the, you know, innocent person who's become didn't come involved in this, who is trying to to discover what's really going on. And there again, we have that inner knowledge as the audience.
00:06:59
Speaker
i
How to Kill Your Employer vs. Traditional Mysteries
00:07:00
Speaker
Well, and sometimes you see it in a book where ah there might be scenes with the killer, again, not but perhaps not identified, right? But we see the we read about the killer doing some actions or or reflecting on their actions, perhaps. Yeah.
00:07:23
Speaker
And then that killer's identity isn't revealed until until later in the book. um But yeah, I really struggled to think of any books where
00:07:35
Speaker
I knew from the beginning who the bad guy was. Right. You know, when we first started talking about this topic, the book that came to mind for me was How to Kill Your Employer. And I really thought that this was an example, you know, a contemporary example. It's about a secret academy that trains people to eliminate problematic ah people in their lives without getting caught. And um we're inside the criminal's head from the beginning and we see them planning this crime.
00:08:12
Speaker
But in fact, it's not exactly how-catch-em because there is not a detective who's trying to dismantle the scheme on the other side. It's really just
Inside the Mind of a Criminal in Media
00:08:25
Speaker
only from the criminal's perspective of do I get caught or do I not get caught? So I think it's got some influence, but it's not a how-catch-em after all.
00:08:36
Speaker
Yeah. And and there are ah perhaps some more examples of what you just described where that narration, we do know who the identity of the killer is and they are telling the story from their perspective.
00:08:54
Speaker
Right. Right. I think of You by Carolyn Kepnes. I haven't read that book, but it was adapted for a Netflix series. And you're in this close perspective, first person look at this stalker and murderer and his rationale and his actions. And I think that's an example of of what you're what you're saying there.
00:09:22
Speaker
And,
Audience Sympathy for Complex Characters
00:09:23
Speaker
i you know, i I think about that and i I wonder how audiences, whether they really enjoy those. Like, I think myself as a reader, I'm not sure that I do enjoy that because you're just a little too close to the crime, right? And it it can feel very uncomfortable.
00:09:47
Speaker
And ah yeah, I just, I don't know if if they do as well. i mean, i I know it's a Netflix adaptation and there were several series of it, so it must have done well enough. But, um you know, you think about Knives Out, for example, and I have to imagine that that reaches a wider audience. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I see what you mean. Well, and Dexter, like I never watched Dexter. i understand the concept is that he's a Robin Hood murderer, I guess, if you can call it that. But that just didn't really set with me, although I know it was wildly popular. popular So I see what you're saying, Sarah.
00:10:32
Speaker
Yeah. and And Dexter is a really good example. And I have seen, i don't think I watched it to the end of the series, but I have seen some Dexter. and And you certainly are meant to feel quite sympathetic for him because he's very calculated in terms of who it is that he goes after. um So, you know, Robin Hood is is ah pretty good description.
00:10:56
Speaker
As a reader, that you know, we've talked about kind of in past episodes about villains that we, that were meant to like, and that's the same kind of thing that, I mean, Dexter is definitely an example of that. um And, you know, you're hoping that he evades capture because you've come to, to like him. And
Tension and Appeal in Inverted Stories
00:11:19
Speaker
that's a very interesting um thought that you could,
00:11:25
Speaker
like this character who's also done some horrific things. hu And I think that ah feeling even translates a little bit if we go back to that more traditional Howe Ketchum's, let's say Columbo. These are episodic. You're not getting you know too attached to any character. But I do think that there is the feeling as the viewer of like,
00:11:55
Speaker
Is he going to get away with this? This is a pretty good plan. Like, is this murder going to evade capture? You know, he doesn't. Columbo's too good. But I think that same experience of having just a little bit of sympathy or ah appreciation for what the murderer has ah tried to accomplish with this plan is there as well.
00:12:20
Speaker
Well, and it's it's interesting because Dexter is a series just revolving around that character who is the bad guy versus Columbo, who is the investigator, right? And he's meant to be the more sympathetic character.
00:12:39
Speaker
character, the one that the audiences, they keep coming back because they want to watch Columbo. The, the, um, the bad guy is different every yeah episode.
00:12:50
Speaker
Right. And I wonder if when it's framed that way, it is a little bit more palatable to audiences because you're seeing right and justice and, um, you know,
00:13:08
Speaker
someone being caught for their behavior. You know, I think it's kind of right in this title, but we've spoken about the movie Catch Me If You Can, the Frank Abagnale story before. And...
00:13:22
Speaker
as a film, that's a great example of a how catch him
Hitchcock's Suspense Philosophy
00:13:26
Speaker
because um Tom Hanks character, i don't remember the FBI agent's name, but he knows for a long time or suspects for a long time that Frank Abagnale is the guy who's, you know, kiting these checks and doing these criminal behaviors, but ah he can't nail it down and catch him. And we get to see behind the scenes and watch the you know, watch him make the fake checks and pretend to be a pilot. And it's a lot of fun to see, like, is he going to get caught for for what he's doing?
00:13:59
Speaker
Mm hmm. Yeah, that is a great example.
00:14:05
Speaker
Well, Alfred Hitchcock was famously interested in suspense over surprise, and he was not known to produce or make whodunits, but he did enjoy this Howe Katcham model.
00:14:20
Speaker
Dial M for Murder is a great example of one of his films that uses it. We see the plan, we know the perpetrator, and then, as we've mentioned, that tension comes from watching it unfold, and and unravel for that person.
00:14:38
Speaker
And I think
Flexibility of Inverted Structure in Subgenres
00:14:39
Speaker
Hitchcock really understood that giving the audience more information, when a lot of ah you know filmmakers or authors were trying to hide all the juicy details, but it can really create a lot of anxiety and and great suspense.
00:14:58
Speaker
Yeah, well, it's that dramatic irony, right? Where you as the audience know more than the detective and you just hope that he will be able to figure it out.
00:15:11
Speaker
Exactly. You know, this structure isn't tied to tone, which is why I think it's important to say this isn't really a subgenre of mystery. It's definitely a story structure or a a formula, I guess, because you can have the really gritty stories that we spoke of, of having a psychological thriller ah that dives into the killer's mindset or be on the cozier lighter end like Columbo. Or i i know some of the um Murder, She Wrote episodes play with this
00:15:48
Speaker
concept a little bit. ah so So using this style of storytelling has a lot of flexibility. And do you think, Brooke, it works better in one of those subgenres than in another?
00:16:06
Speaker
I wonder if it comes down to taste, like you were saying. For me, I can really have a lot of fun with like the Columbo scenario. um And I would put that on the cozier end of the spectrum because as you were saying, it's sometimes it's uncomfortable being that close to the killer in a more psychological thriller. And those are the scenes. If it's a dual point of view story where part of the time you're in
00:16:37
Speaker
their head so you're seeing what the killer has planned and then you're back in the sleuth or the you know hero's head those scenes are usually the part that make the book creepy and you know scary we haven't talked a lot about structures I think this is one of the first times that that's that that's come up yeah you're probably right
00:17:07
Speaker
um You know, I think about what's satisfying for me in a mystery, and it's that unraveling of the clues and the um the process of discovering who is behind everything. And I think
Crafting and Unraveling Inverted Mysteries
00:17:27
Speaker
this may be why I haven't read a lot of these stories and perhaps why they are not written as, as,
00:17:35
Speaker
much as they had been in the past, I don't think it's as satisfying to know who the killer is from the very beginning. i I know what you're saying. It completely changes the experience. um From an exercise of an author, it's very interesting to think about because it's great to have the um to have all those details ahead of time to then be able to reverse it and plant them and create a fun experience for a reader. But um I do know what you're talking about. It is a completely different, different experience.
00:18:18
Speaker
Well,
Conclusion and Listener Engagement Question
00:18:19
Speaker
thank you, Brooke, for sharing a little bit about reverse mysteries or how catch ems. This has been a really interesting conversation. It's been fun, Sarah. And I liked your comment about that we haven't spoken a lot about structure. So, you know, there's another show idea for us.
00:18:37
Speaker
Absolutely. But listeners, here's your question of the week. What hooks you more? Slowly discovering who did it or watching if they'll get caught?
00:18:49
Speaker
Until next time, thank you for joining us on Clued in Mystery. I'm Brooke. And I'm Sarah. And we both love mystery.
00:19:01
Speaker
Clued in Mystery is written and produced by Brooke Peterson and Sarah M. Stephen. Music is by Shane Ivers. If you liked what you heard, please consider telling a friend, leaving a review, or subscribing with your favorite podcast listening app.
00:19:15
Speaker
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